1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat and I 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: am the host. And before we get into anything, I'm 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: just going to give out the quick disclaimer that yes, 5 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: this is a podcast about mental health and therapy that 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: is hosted by a therapist. However, it does not serve 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: as therapy. So now that we got that out of 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: the way in the beginning, we can jump into today's episode, 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: which today is a good day to be here. We 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: are in the middle of a little attachment theory series. 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: We started off with the basics, so today we're taking 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: on the task of diving into and learning about the 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: adult avoidant attachment style. Now, if you are new here 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: or someone sent you or recommended this episode to you, 15 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: I highly, highly highly recommend that you first go start 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: with the basics episode that came out last week because 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: when I think it covers some good stuff, that's just 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: a nice little like platform to start with. And I 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: don't want to be too repetitive in this episode. And also, 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: again I've said this before, but if you have questions 21 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: about anything that pops up, send them to Catherine at 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: you Need Therapy podcast dot com because I'm hoping to 23 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: do a Q and A episode at the end of 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: this with some of the stuff that pops up in 25 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: your head as you guys are listening and learning and 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: grabbing onto some miscontent. So we're gonna start general and 27 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: then expand today on avoidant attachment and adults. What I 28 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: hope you'll get out of this is how and why 29 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: it develops, and then what it looks like, how to 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: spot it if you got it, and how to feel 31 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: it if you're trying to attach to it. And then 32 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: I also think you're gonna want to know how to 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: move from an avoidant attachment style to a more secure 34 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: attachment style, So we're gonna make sure we have a 35 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: little bit of time for that at the end as well. First, 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: why do we even care, Like why is this stuff important? 37 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: Why do we care about learning about adult attachment? Like? 38 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: What's the big deal? And it matters for a lot 39 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: of reasons. However, one of the big reasons is if 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: you haven't avoidant attachment style, you tend to be less 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: happy and satisfied in your relationships. And we know that 42 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: from research and while avoidant leaning individuals are less likely 43 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: to find themselves in therapy because of their avoidance. It 44 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they are happy all of the time. 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,279 Speaker 1: They might end quote think they can cut off from emotions, 46 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: but they might be suffering from just as much anxiety 47 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: and or depression as someone with the anxious attachment style 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: they're coping. Might just look a little different. Now, the 49 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: good thing about learning about all of this is that 50 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: if you are willing to be uncomfortable, and we'll get 51 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: into what I mean by that, then you can learn 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: what does actually not come natural to you, and you 53 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: can change your attachment style and move towards and more 54 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: secure attachment. So if you're listening to this and you're like, 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is me, I don't want anybody 56 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: to hear this as a death sentence because these are fluid. Now, 57 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: be careful what you do with that statement, because I 58 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: know some of you might be like, Okay, So avoidant 59 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: people can change. So if I'm dating somebody who's avoided, 60 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: I don't have to tell myself that this isn't a 61 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: healthy relationship. I can try to change them. And yes, 62 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: attachment synds that can change, and dating somebody with a 63 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: secure attachment helps move you into security. Yes, yes, yes, 64 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: but you can't force somebody to do that, and we 65 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: have to actually be honest about what the relationship is 66 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: doing for us and how is it working against us. 67 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: So this is not permission to engage in unhealthy relationships 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: and say, well, Cat told me I could do that, 69 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: because I'm not saying that. What I am saying is 70 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: that adult attachment is fluid. Attachment is fluid. So this 71 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: is not a death sentence if you feel like you 72 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: are relating to a lot of this. Now, Somebody with 73 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: an avoidant attachment style will idealize a life of self sufficiency. 74 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: They will also look down on dependency. We talked a 75 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: little bit last week about how interdependence can sometimes be 76 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: over categorized as a meshment or codependency, and that's what 77 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: somebody with an avoid attachment will especially do. They'll like, 78 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: that's unhealthy, and really, we do need interdependence, we do 79 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: need connection, We need be able to depend on people. 80 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: Somebody with an avoidant attachment style will have this like 81 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: inside feeling of like you yuck, you have needs. Needs 82 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: mean that you're needy, and needy is bad. And if 83 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: you want to know why, it's kind of simple, kind 84 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: of not so simple, but in a nutshell because in 85 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: their past their needs weren't met, so having needs let 86 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: them down. So they then developed strategies in order to 87 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: not have needs so then they wouldn't get let down. 88 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: Makes a lot of sense. And what we know about 89 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: feelings is that feelings initiate a need inside of us 90 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: in so they work a little backwards. I'm not going 91 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: to have needs. That means I don't have feelings, so 92 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: they find a lot of coping strategies in order to 93 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: create the illusion that they feel less. But just so 94 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: you guys know, every human being has feelings and emotions. Now, 95 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: somebody with an avoidant attachment style will look like they're 96 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: like always maneuvering to keep people at a distance, and 97 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: and they are. But because we also are people who 98 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: need attachment to survive, they will find ways to attach 99 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: enough to get their needs met, but not enough to 100 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: put themselves in danger of being rejected and or abandoned. 101 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: Because the inside, the deepest core starting point for both 102 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: insecure attachments is this idea that they do not want 103 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: to be rejected or abandoned, so their behaviors are created 104 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 1: around that idea. So if I don't want to feel 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: rejection or abandonment. I am going to put these things 106 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: in place in order to avoid that. Which is interesting 107 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: because a lot of times people will see somebody who 108 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: hasn't avoided attachment style and they will look super confident, 109 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: but really they're they're just very, very very scared. I 110 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: mean insecure attachment, insecure some things that you might hear 111 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: somebody with an avoided attachment say and and not know 112 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: that that might be a clue that they are avoided. 113 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: One thing is I'm a free spirit. Now that doesn't 114 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: always mean that they have an avoided attachment. I think 115 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: people just sometimes are free spirits, but in this context 116 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: like I'm a free spirit when they explain why relationships 117 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: consistently don't work out, like I just can't be tied down, 118 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: I'm a free spirit. They're the kind of person who 119 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: gets tired of their partners really, really easily. But it's 120 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: not always because they don't really want to be with them. 121 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: It's more a defense mechanism that is built up when 122 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: they start to feel the threat of intimacy and avoided attachment. 123 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: We do this thing called repress rather than express, so 124 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: they will oppress feelings and emotions rather than express. Them 125 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: to others. They've created a belief that they are immune 126 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: from needs. But the truth is that you're not. And 127 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: if you're hearing this and you're like, well, I really 128 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: don't have needs, you do everybody does? You need to 129 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: connect to survive. These people come become asleep to their needs. 130 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: This is very different than not having them. They might 131 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: be numb to them or unaware of them, but it 132 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: does not mean that they don't have them. Now, what 133 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: is super interesting and a key piece of information if 134 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: you have been zoning out, zone back in. This is 135 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: a key piece of information. When somebody who has an 136 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: avoidant attachment style is faced with a stressful event, an 137 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: event that does not allow them to remain asleep to 138 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: their attachment needs, which is how they operate a lot 139 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: of times, their defense mechanisms break down because they in 140 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: this realm don't work. So when they're in a super 141 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: stressful situation or event and they cannot numb out the 142 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: need for needing, the need for connection, their defense mechanisms 143 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: breakdown and they end up showing up like somebody with 144 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: an anxious attachment style. And this is very important because 145 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: I think this is why a lot of people get 146 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: their attachment styles confused or this is why they think 147 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: that they're in the disorganized slash fearful of avoidant attachment style, 148 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: when that attachment styles very very rare, it's like three 149 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: to five pc of people. What this means is that 150 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: when somebody with an avoidant attachment style can't stay asleep 151 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: to needing, they show up very anxious and pull up 152 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: anxious attachment style behaviors which will get to next week 153 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: because they do not have what someone with a secure 154 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: attachment has. It doesn't mean that they're fearful, avoidant or disorganized. 155 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: It means that their system of protection is not bulletproof, 156 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: which insecure attachment styles are not bulletproof, so it's broken down, 157 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: so you revert to something else, kind of like grasping 158 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: at straws. But I actually am getting ahead of myself. 159 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: So let's back up a little bit. Let's talk about 160 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: how and why someone might develop a avoidant attachment style. 161 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: Why don't we Okay, So we first need to remember 162 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: that attachment styles are created out of means of survival. 163 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: So no one creates an attachment style to cause pain. 164 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: While this might happen developed as a way to protect 165 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 1: and survive as a child. This develops when let's say 166 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: you cry and nobody notices. You feel rejected, You feel 167 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: pushed away, and if you're distress, if you're needing, pushes 168 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: people away. Every time you signal that you need, you're 169 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: going to stop showing distress, right, that would only make sense, 170 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: And a lot of times people will think that this 171 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: attachment style develops when people have caregivers that are just 172 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: like bad or don't care. But that's also not true. 173 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: This can happen when you have parents or caregivers who 174 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: are doing the best they can, but there might be 175 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: an illness or maybe physical or mental health, or maybe 176 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: there's poverty, or they don't have all their needs met, 177 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: or maybe they just have a job where they travel 178 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: a lot and they're not around a lot, or there 179 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: can be a lot of reasons why it doesn't mean 180 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: that you're like caregivers or your parents don't care about you, 181 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: and that gets misconstrued a lot. And I think also 182 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: one of the reasons we sometimes don't want to admit 183 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: that we have one of these attachment styles, if we're 184 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: talking about early attachment, is because we don't want to 185 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: demonize our parents or our caregivers because we want to 186 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: believe that they are good. And this is in no 187 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: way doing that. We're not demonizing anybody. We're just looking 188 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: at what has happened based on your experiences. So, like 189 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: I said, if you're showing distress and your needs are 190 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: not getting met by that, then you're going to stop 191 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: doing that. You're going to take this idea that like, oh, 192 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: needs mean people won't show up. Right if I have 193 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: needs and people won't be there for me, if your 194 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: needs were over and over and not responded to, your 195 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: going to bypass your distress because you learn that it 196 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: doesn't help and you just let down. So as a kid, 197 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: if this is happening as a small child, that you 198 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: will learn to hide your expression of attachment. So your 199 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: expression of attachment is that neediness. If I stay still, 200 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: if I stay quiet, if I stay well behaved, Mom 201 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: won't walk away, Mom won't ignore me, Mom won't x 202 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: y Z. We make that up on our head. Not 203 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: having needs will up my chances of closeness with mom 204 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: if mom is my primary caregiver. Because again, when I 205 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: was taught that I get needy, mom gets up and 206 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: walks away. That could be an experience you have and 207 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: Let's say that mom was dealing with her own stuff 208 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: at the time, and we're gonna go with this idea 209 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: that mom's primary caregiver. Let's say Mom was going through 210 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: her own stuff at the time, and maybe was was 211 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: stressed out or anxious around being a new parent or 212 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: what have you. And when you did distress and when 213 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: you did call out for help and when you did cry, 214 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: she wasn't there or she left because of her own stuff. 215 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: You are taking on that message. So if I then 216 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: am quiet and I just don't have needs, mom will 217 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: stick around and I can't attach, right, So it's not 218 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: that you're like, oh, I'm not going to attach. You 219 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: find a way to like back up into attachment because 220 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: avoidant kids still need connection. And that was I was 221 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: saying earlier in the very beginning of this Having an 222 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: avoidan attachment does not mean that you actually don't have 223 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: needs and don't have attachment needs. It's a way that 224 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: you have figured out how to cope with your attachment 225 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: needs and your head get your needs met. Doesn't actually 226 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: really work long term. Now, I'm talking about in early 227 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: childhood right now. But remember in the last episode we 228 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: talked about how when we used to think that the 229 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: first two years of life had these like very deciding 230 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: factor like impacts on our attachment for the rest of 231 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: our life, and that's not totally true. Those are very 232 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: very critical moments and experiences in our life, but every relationship, 233 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 1: plus media, plus our environment and experiences plays a role 234 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: into our attachment. We have what we call an internal 235 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: working model of relationships, and that can change with each 236 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: new relationship or experience. So your attachment style isn't completely 237 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: set as a child, but that's when it starts to develop. 238 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: So what does this look like as an adult, Well, 239 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: an adult life, it looks like you become zipped up 240 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: and you think things like I don't need you, and 241 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: a picture that I like to use. I'm like very visual. 242 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: And so when I think about somebody with an avoidant 243 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: attachment style as an adult, I think of them wearing 244 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: like footie pajamas that like zip up, which like are 245 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: made for kids, But as an adult, you put it 246 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: on and you zip it up, and what you're doing 247 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: is you're zipping up your feelings and your needs. Avoidant 248 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: people have the ability to connect to a partner, but 249 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: they also always have an escape route. So I think 250 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: sometimes we think like, oh, avoidant people can't connect. Now 251 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: they can, but they always have an escape route. They 252 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: are not preparing to stay connected. They are going to 253 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: stay connected until there becomes a threat of intimacy, a 254 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: threat of abandonment or rejection, and they are always planning 255 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: another route to go on because when they start to 256 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: feel like their partner needs them, they subconsciously become very 257 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: insecure and then they hit up that escape route that 258 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: they already had. What they have also is a pattern 259 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: of deactivating their distress and needs. How do they do 260 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: that through things called deactivating strategies. Now, deactivating strategies are 261 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: what somebody with an avoided attachment style does in order 262 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: to keep their partner at like an arm's length, what 263 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: they do to be connected enough but not too connected. 264 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: And simply put, this is like any behavior that is 265 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: used to like push down intimacy. Intimacy is very scary 266 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: to these people because intimacy creates more of an opportunity 267 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: to get rejected or to get abandoned. And again, that 268 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: is what we are trying to avoid this whole time. 269 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: So what you're doing when you're using a deactivating strategy 270 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: is you're pushing down, pushing away, suppressing your attachment system. 271 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: And your attachment system is a biological mechanism. It is 272 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: a system in our brains that is designed to seek 273 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: closeness with some partner, whether that is a caregiver growing up, 274 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: or a romantic relationship, or it can't even apply to 275 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: like working relationships or um friendships. What unavoidantly attached person 276 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: has done with these deactivating strategies is they found a 277 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: way to deactivate that system to an extent. So they're 278 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: finding ways to deactivate their attachment system kind of turn 279 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: it off. So what are some of these things. Let's 280 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: just go through some examples of deactivating strategies. They will 281 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: create beliefs and ideas like I'm not ready to commit, 282 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: but they may stay with that partner for years. So 283 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: you'll be in a long term relationship like super long, 284 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: but you're not ready to commit, or you're not ready 285 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: to say I love you, but you're gonna be in 286 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: in that relationship. But I'm not gonna get engaged, or 287 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: maybe I'm gonna get engaged, but we're not going to 288 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: put in the wedding, or we're going to be in 289 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: the city situation. Ship and I have you, but I'm 290 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: not going to define the relationship. They will also focus 291 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: on really small imperfections and kind of like pick people apart, 292 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: even though they might have these like big, grand scale 293 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: things that you desire in a relationship, which allows them 294 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: to have excuses not to attach to someone. So like, 295 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: think about somebody who's like, oh they chew loud, I 296 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: just can't stand them, and these things like irk them 297 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: to their core. Or let's say they don't like the 298 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: way they dress, or like his hair or her hair 299 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: is too long, like little things like little nitpicky things 300 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: that you'd like. Really that's a deal breaker for you. 301 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: They just focus on these things until they become deal breakers. 302 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: They also are always like looking for the idea of 303 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: the one like the perfect partner, like my soul mate, 304 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: my other half. And this is a tool to keep 305 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: someone kind of that bay. It also tells you and 306 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: sends you the message everything is fine with me. The 307 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: person I'm with this the partner has nothing to do 308 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: with me, is that they don't have this thing that 309 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: I want. They're just not good enough. Because also somebody 310 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: with an avoidant attachment sits in this belief system that 311 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: the issues are external. The issues they have in relationships 312 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with them, So it's like it's 313 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: not me, it's you. Literally the opposite of really, well 314 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: we want to hear. The other thing about this, this 315 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: deactivating strategy is if we can sit with the idea 316 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: that like, oh, I'm looking for my soul made and 317 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: like you just don't have the things that I really 318 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: need in a relationship and really make it external, you 319 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: also send this illusion that you're searching for connection and 320 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: you're searching and you're trying, and you're attempting to connect. 321 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: It's like a double defense mechanism because it sends out 322 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: this message that like, I really am trying. At the 323 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: same time, what you're actually doing is pushing connection away. 324 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: So it can be very confus using, especially to the 325 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: partner or the person that you're in a relationship with, 326 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: because you're like, but they do want this, and it's like, 327 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: actually they don't. They're pushing away connection every time they 328 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: get it or they find it, they really feel it. Also, 329 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: they will do this thing called rosie retrospect I call 330 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: rosie retrospect with old partners. They were like fantasize about 331 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: old partners, so they will look back at old relationships 332 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: and look at all of like the good parts and 333 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: the happy parts and the exciting parts, and they will 334 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: forget that like when they were in that relationship, they 335 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: were also doing the same thing that they are doing 336 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: currently in their current relationship, like nitpicking them a mirror. 337 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: Levine and Rachel Heller in their book Attached, which awesome 338 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: book if you want to learn more about adult attachment. 339 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: In their book, they call this the phantom X. They 340 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: say that like once at a distance, the threat of 341 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: intimacy is gone, and that's why you can convince yourself 342 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: that the relationship was better than it may have been, 343 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: or better than you felt it was when you were 344 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 1: in it, and why you can think that, like this 345 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: was the best partner that you've ever had, because there's 346 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: no threat of intimacy anymore, because that relationship is over. 347 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: So now you start to develop these like idealized ideas 348 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: puts the past partner in a pedestal when you wouldn't 349 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: have done that in the relationship. And what this does 350 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: also is it like creates this like back and forth 351 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: game where you're like taking two steps forward and then 352 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: two steps back, and that can preoccupy yourself with thoughts 353 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: that you are attempting connection. But what it's also doing 354 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: is it's keeping you from engaging with somebody new, and 355 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: it's keeping you from creating any like actually real possible 356 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: connections in your present. So again it's like a double 357 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: defense mechanism. Something that these people will also do is 358 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: pull away when things are going well, which is so 359 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: confusing for the partner, so confusing. We'll have so much 360 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: empathy for the partner because it's like whiplash or like 361 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: being blindsided. And a lot of times this happens because 362 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: they have been putting their guards down, They've been breaking 363 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: down walls, and like, the more you become connected to 364 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: your partner, the more scary it becomes for you. The 365 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: partner's loving it's like this is going great, this is 366 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: going great, whatever, this is wonderful, and then all the sudden, 367 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: the threat of intimacy pops up and then they have 368 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: to get out of their A S A P. Because 369 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: if there's intimacy, there's more of an opportunity for me 370 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: to be rejected or abandoned. And if I am creating 371 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: intimacy with somebody, that means that I'm going to start 372 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: to have needs and I can't do that, And a 373 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: lot of times what will happen is they'll start feeling 374 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: their needs, but they also will start feeling the appropriate 375 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: attachment of their partner, and that feels very needy, and 376 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: they will have to get away and they'll blame it 377 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: again on external factors. You were too needy, They were 378 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: too needy, it was too much, they were clingy, gross 379 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: cube leah, when really that partner could have been very 380 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: appropriate in their neediness in the relationship. But then what 381 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: happens is that partner then it's like, oh my gosh. 382 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: They'll say, can guess themselves, when really they were very appropriate. 383 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: Avoidant people will also start keeping like secrets purposefully in relationships. 384 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: You might start to create something with somebody, but then 385 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: you start really holding back and it just keeps you 386 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: at a distance. It allows you to not lean in fully. 387 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: They also will like physically detached slowly, so not having 388 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: sex with their partner or not much physical touch, or 389 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: creating more distance between the time you might see somebody. 390 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: So these are all strategies to keep partners or relationships 391 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: at a distance while also attempting to be in a relationship. 392 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: Because at the core of all of us. We want connection, 393 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: we want relationships, We are wired for that. But somebody 394 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: with an avoided attachment wants to have that, but wants 395 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: to do it in a way where they can't get 396 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: let down or hurt. And I can't get let down 397 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: or hurt if I don't lean in fully and I 398 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: maintain my own autonomy. However, this just gets in the 399 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: way of you feeling secure in a relationship. So it 400 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: makes no sense. All of this stuff backfires, It totally backfires. 401 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: This doesn't compute in somebody's head if they are unaware 402 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: that they have an avoidant attachment. What they think they're 403 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: doing is creating strategies to keep them safe. But what 404 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: they're also doing is creating a lot of self fulfilling prophecies. 405 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: They are also not allowing themselves to shift their attachment system. 406 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: So I mentioned in the first episode that yes, attachment 407 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: systems are fluid and they can change, but they can't 408 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: and won't change if you do not allow yourself that opportunity. 409 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: And these things change not with knowledge but with experience. 410 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: So when we can connect to somebody and we can 411 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: allow our needs to show up and be seen, and 412 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: then we can see that, yes, it may not perfectly happen, 413 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: but we can't have our needs met and people can 414 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: connect to us, and we can feel intimate relationships and 415 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: be in intimate relationships, and our partners can be there 416 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: for us and they're not going to run away. Every 417 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: time I have an attachment need, we can start to 418 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: shift our attachment. But we can't start to shift our 419 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: attachment if we hold onto the belief that our needs 420 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: can't be met and we don't allow people to meet them. 421 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: I wish I could like draw diagram for you guys 422 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: right now, but this is not a visual podcast. So 423 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: avoidantly attached individuals mistake self reliance for independence. They value 424 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: self reliance when they think they're valuing independence. However, independence 425 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: is something that allows us to also be interdependent. So 426 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: being independent doesn't mean you don't need people, quite the opposite. 427 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: We become more independent the more that we know that 428 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: we need people, the more that I have this idea 429 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: that it's okay to need people, the more that I 430 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: can have connection and feel safety within somebody, and then 431 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: go out and try and be independent and do new 432 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: things and scary things because I know I can come 433 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: back to that. What we just defined in the first 434 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: episode as our secure base, So these are also self 435 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: soothing people. They automatically move towards take care of myself 436 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: rather than being taken care of. What happens when I 437 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: need others, I'm going to get hurt. So when I 438 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: have a need, I'm going to go self soothed on 439 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: my own. Also, this is a very interesting thing that happens, 440 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: but in the beginning of a relationship with somebody who 441 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: is avoidant can very much look like this love bomb situation. 442 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: It's super super confusing because what they're doing in the 443 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: beginning of a relationship, they want attachment, but what they're 444 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: going to do most likely is they're going to focus 445 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: more on you. Making sure that others need them more 446 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: than they need others. Making sure that others need them 447 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: more than they need others is kind of how they 448 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: survive and how they kind of back into relationships. But 449 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: then this ends up backfiring because they're going to end 450 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: up being overwhelmed by their partner needing them, and so 451 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: you're going to just be you know, following the signals right, 452 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: following the cues of like this person is making this 453 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: all about me, this person wants to see me constantly 454 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: this person is um showing up consistently and and giving 455 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: me all this praise and validation. And as soon as 456 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: I actually hold on to that and I continue to 457 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: want that and expect that and need that in the relationship, 458 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: they're like, oh my gosh, you're so needy. I have 459 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: to get away from this when there is an expectation 460 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: from them, right, So, all of a sudden, you've been 461 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: attuned to what they've been showing up with and then 462 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: you expect it. That is a need that is scary. 463 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: They're also are afraid of letting you down, so they're 464 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: going to find a way to run away. They internally say, 465 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: screw needs and vulnerability. It just gets you let down, 466 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: It just gets you hurt. And so they're going to 467 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: withdraw in stone wall and shut off their expression of need. 468 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is if they don't have an awareness, 469 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: if they haven't been you know, exposed to this, they 470 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: don't really have an awareness that they're holding anything back 471 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: because they have taught themselves not to feel distress. They've 472 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: conditioned themselves they don't want to be alone, but connection 473 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: is frightening, so they have taught themselves away to have 474 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: connection but also not fully connect. But they don't actually 475 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: know that they're like doing anything wrong or that's going 476 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: to hurt them. They just think like, this is how 477 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: relationship should be, and this is how connection is. That's 478 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: why when somebody has the needs, they really are like, 479 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: you are so needy you, Oh my gosh, there's something 480 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: wrong with you. Because they think that what they're doing 481 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: is the right way. It's like the truth to light 482 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: the way. They don't know until they know. And that's 483 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: the tricky thing. They aren't doing this to hurt others. 484 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: They aren't doing this to hurt themselves. They're doing this 485 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: to protect themselves and to get their needs met. They 486 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: have developed a strategy to disconnect from the expression of need. 487 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: It's not that they don't recognize their feelings. They have 488 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: literally learned not to feel them because when they feel them, 489 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: they might have a need, and if they have the need, 490 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: they will get abandoned or rejected. And that's what I'm 491 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: talking about with like the footy pajamas, they're zipped up. 492 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: They have learned not to feel their feelings. They have 493 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: learned not to get too close. They have learned all 494 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: of that, and that is like the normal way for 495 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: them to operate. These are the kinds of clients, like 496 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: if we're talking about in therapy, these are the kind 497 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: of clients that don't really know why they're they're They 498 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: might have come because somebody else told them, maybe because 499 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: their partner encouraged them, and then once they get into therapy, 500 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: they're like bothered to be there, like their therapists like 501 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: if it's me, I'm a burden to them. It's like, 502 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm fine. If everybody else would just fix their stuff, 503 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: like then I wouldn't have a problem. I don't really 504 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: know why I'm here. This doesn't really feel like my issue. 505 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: If my partner would stop being so needy, I wouldn't 506 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: have such an inclination to walk away from them. I'm 507 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: the one that's operating correctly. Everybody else is just too 508 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: much so when I asked them to tap into their needs, 509 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: they might not be able to do that it takes 510 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: a while, or they're like this is stupid, this is dumb, 511 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: like you're you're bothering me. Also, and I wish I 512 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: would have said this earlier in the episode, But here 513 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: we are somebody with an avoidant attachment, as somebody who 514 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: has lost hope and they aspirately need to be shown 515 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: that again. These are the people who got let down 516 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: over and over and over and over, and it was consistent. 517 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: They consistently were let down. So here we can grab 518 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: onto a crap ton of empathy, because if I'm let 519 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: down over and over and over and over again, I've 520 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to learn something. I'm going to take a 521 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: lesson from what is being shown to me. I have 522 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: completely lost hope that my needs can be met and 523 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: that people can show up for me, and that people 524 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: will show up for me. That is why I have 525 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: developed these strategies, not because I don't really want connection, 526 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: because I've taught that if I want to have connection, 527 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: I have got to shut down my needs because if 528 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: I have needs, people will leave me. So these are 529 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: the people that have lost hope. We'll get into this 530 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: next week. But the anxiously attached people are the people 531 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: that have had hope and then got let down, had 532 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: hope and then got let down, had hope and got 533 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: let down, So they don't know what to believe. They 534 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: can't be soothed because they know it's possible. They know 535 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: they've had that before, and so when they then get it. 536 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: They don't want to let go because they're afraid that 537 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: when it leaves, they don't know when it's going to 538 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: come back again. These people just never had hope shown 539 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: or consistently have been shown that hope is not available, 540 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: and we need to desperately show them that hope is possible. 541 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: And a lot of times that's my job as a therapist, 542 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: which is hard. Even my relationship with hope can be 543 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: at times a little bit wonky because having hope can 544 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: let us down. But I think something that's really important 545 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: to remember about hope here is is hope is not 546 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: the belief that everything will go my way. Hope is 547 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: that life can surprise us. Hope is that things can 548 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: turn out differently than I expect. Hope isn't everything being 549 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: bright and shiny all the time. Hope is that when 550 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: I am disappointed, I believe that things can still be good. 551 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: Avoidantly attached people can be very confused sometimes and it 552 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: can feel like they don't really know what they want 553 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: because again, like in the beginning of relationships, it's very 554 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: like love bombing, but then all of a sudden you're 555 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: bothering them, so it's like, oh, I wanted to be 556 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: in a relationship with you, but then all of the sudden, 557 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: you're just like inconvenience to them, and when you asked 558 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: to make future plans they get annoyed. Yet they were 559 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: just talking about how much they do like you. They 560 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: don't know what they want because they are innately wired 561 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: to want connection, but they also have been conditioned to 562 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: believe that connection hurts you. And this is also an 563 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: example of how like, once you get close to somebody, 564 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: your attachment system gets activated. And when somebody with an 565 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: avoidant attachment has their attachment system activated, then their go 566 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: to is to pull up a deactivating strategy or they 567 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: engage in a self soothing strategy. We go outside of 568 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: the relationship to get help. Anything that I can do 569 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: alone to soothe. That can be Instagram, that can be overworking, 570 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: that can be video games. They also might engage an 571 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: unhealthy amount of masturbation or having physically intimate affairs. That's 572 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: a relationship that the stakes are low to work out, 573 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: so I don't have to fear intimacy there, but I 574 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: do get to have my needs meant and I get 575 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: to engage in a behavior that suits my nervous system. 576 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: It suits that fear. So remember, attachment is strongly about 577 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: how we relate to fear, and so if I can 578 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: find something that soothes my fear, fear of intimacy, fear 579 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: of abandonment, fear of rejection, I'm going to go do 580 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: that whatever has the lowest stakes. And for somebody who 581 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: has an avoidant, we self soothe outside of the relationship, 582 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: we don't soothe inside of the relationship. An anxious person 583 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: is going to be more apt to try to soothe 584 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: inside the relationship, like overactivated, while the avoidant like under activated. 585 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: They also come off as super confident in themselves. And 586 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: I think I said that earlier, But what I want 587 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: to remind you is that this confidence is not really confidence. 588 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: Its defense mechanisms. It's not allowing yourself to show up fully. 589 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: The most confident people in the world, and I truly 590 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: believe this. This doesn't even have to really do with attachment, 591 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: although it does. At the same time, this is just 592 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: a blanket statement. Confident people are able to talk about 593 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: their insecurities. That's somebody who's confident. A confident person isn't 594 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: somebody who doesn't have insecurities. A confident person is somebody 595 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: who's I have insecurities and that's okay. And that's why 596 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: confident people are the people that are going out and 597 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: doing the scary things, because they do not believe that 598 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: if they mess up, if somebody doesn't love them the 599 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,719 Speaker 1: way that they love them, if they experience what they 600 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: might or somebody might assume as a failure, that does 601 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: not rip apart um their sense of self and their 602 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: worthiness and their value as a human being. In a 603 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: secure relationship, when you get distressed, you can turn towards 604 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: another human in a healthy way to soothe. An avoidance 605 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: is going to like I was saying earlier, they're more 606 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: are likely to lean out. So a avoidant attached person 607 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: is going to lead completely out. They're going to self 608 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: soothe somewhere else. And that will sometimes look like confidence, 609 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: like I don't need other people to help take care 610 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: of me. I can take care of myself. It's a 611 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: false sense of confidence. A secure person is going to 612 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: lean in in a healthy way, and an anxious person 613 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: is going to like, I wish I could like show 614 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: you my hands right now. But if if a secure 615 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: person is leaning in, it's like okay, I'm I'm going 616 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: to have like a degree angle in while a anxiously 617 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: attached person when they need soothing, it's like they flatline. 618 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: They completely, like if I have my hand at the 619 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: ninety degree angle, they go from ninety degree when they 620 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: have a need, they totally flip it over and they 621 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: flatline onto the other person. They like suffocate the person 622 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 1: with their soothing needs. So I'm gonna wrap some of 623 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: this up, um, and i want you to remember. I 624 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: want you to remember through this avoidant people still need connection. 625 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: If you have an avoided attachment, you have not gotten 626 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: rid of your need. You have just learned that needing 627 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: leads to pain. Thus, if you don't need, you won't 628 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: feel pain. They do have feelings, they have learned to 629 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: detach from their feelings. Their instincts are to stop and 630 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: to protect. It is a threat to who they are, 631 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: their value, their worthiness, their okayness to be questioned or 632 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: to feel questioned, or for anybody to think or feel 633 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: like they have done or they're doing something wrong, and 634 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: that's something wrong. Could be just like letting somebody down. 635 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: But in relationships and healthy, secure relationships, we will let 636 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: people down. We will have rupture in our relationships and 637 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: then there will be repair and that is okay. We 638 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 1: can mess up, and that is okay. But these people 639 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: don't know that, and it is their job to learn that. 640 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: But to learn that, they have to do the scariest 641 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: thing ever, ever, ever, risk rejection, risk abandonment. And so 642 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: I say this all like roll off the tongue, easy information, 643 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: But it is not that easy. It is like the deepest, darkest, 644 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: biggest fear to feel those things, to feel rejected and abandoned, 645 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: The threat of those is the scariest thing imaginable. So 646 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: how do these people move towards a secure relationship? Cat, 647 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: If you're telling me that you don't have its fluid 648 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: and you don't have to stay here, how the heck? 649 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: How the heck? Okay, if you are one of these people, 650 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 1: what you're needing is you need to be more curious 651 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: about how you are doing in the world with the 652 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: people around you. If someone's complaining that you're not open, 653 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: if somebody's making a common it's not a threat. It's 654 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 1: not a threat because a complaint is actually good. A 655 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: complaints says like I am expressing something that I need 656 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: in order to create a deeper and better relationship. It's 657 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: not saying I'm leaving it's saying, hey, I need this. 658 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: So if you're not open to that, you will not 659 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: be able to shift your attachment. But if you are, 660 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: and you can increase your curiosity about your relationship, you 661 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: can move towards a more interpersonal idea and rather than 662 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: a independent idea of how to relate to the world. 663 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: Your job and your work is to tolerate being taken 664 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: care of. And I know that might be like, yeah, 665 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: I'm not doing that, but if you want to shift 666 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: your attachment, you have to tolerate being taken care of. 667 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: And you know what, I know that the reason you 668 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: probably are in this state is because you tried that 669 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: once and it didn't work out. But I want you 670 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: to hear this. You might need to like replay this 671 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: fifteen times. Just because somebody didn't meet your need, just 672 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: because you were abandoned or you were rejected, or you 673 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: weren't taken care of when you needed it, it doesn't 674 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: mean that you're bad or wrong. It doesn't mean that 675 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: people cannot be there for you. It just means that 676 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: that person was and able to meet your need. It 677 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: just means that that person wasn't there for you. And 678 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: I promise you not every single person is like that. 679 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: But what I don't want you to do is find 680 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: people that mimic that and then create all these self 681 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecies over and over and over again so you 682 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: can say, see, I told you so, people can't handle me. 683 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: And the more that you believe that people can show 684 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: up for you, the more you're going to be attracted 685 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 1: to people that can show up for you. And that 686 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: is like the turning point. People with avoidant attachment overwhelmingly 687 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: assume that the reason that they are unable to find 688 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: happiness and relationships has to do with external circumstances, like 689 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: I said before, and little to do it themselves, so 690 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 1: we can blame it all and like people can't, people can't. 691 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,359 Speaker 1: People can't. But maybe you are creating a system now 692 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: that fulfills this idea. Maybe this idea really isn't totally true. 693 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: And what I can't offer, and what I can't say, 694 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: is that people won't let you down, because that is 695 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: part of life. People are gonna let us down. But 696 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,879 Speaker 1: people also have the ability to be there for you. 697 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: We got both. So until you are able to look 698 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: inward at yourself and your own behaviors and your defense 699 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: mechanisms and your deactivating strategies, change is not likely to 700 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: occur for you. But when you are able to look 701 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: at that and you are willing to risk the scariest 702 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: thing and hear me out here, abandonment and rejection pain 703 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: from that feeling, that experiencing that, that won't kill you. 704 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: I promise you that won't kill you. But what actually 705 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: might have the ability to kill you are the behaviors 706 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: that you develop in order to avoid that, to order 707 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: to avoid your feelings so then you can avoid your knees. 708 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: That's what's going to hurt you long term. Abandon my rejection, yeah, 709 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. I think that it's like my biggest fear. 710 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: I don't want that either, But that's not going to 711 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: actually kill me. But my inability to experience that is 712 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: probably what's going to keep me from getting what I 713 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: actually truly, truly want to need. And this part might 714 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: be really hard for you because you have to accept 715 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: that you have insecurities and that is very threatening because 716 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: it's one of the ways you learn to be safe 717 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: is to go around that. You're more intellectual if you 718 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: have an avoidant attachment style, less feeling, more thinking. We 719 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: want you to pull those together. I was listening to 720 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 1: a podcast, The Therapist Uncensored podcast, and what they said 721 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: about avoiding attachment. They said, if you were in the 722 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, you'd be the tin Man. And we 723 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: need you to find your heart. We need to help 724 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: you let people care for you and a tune to 725 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: you and you to really deeply care about them. And yes, 726 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: that brings threat of pain, but it also brings what 727 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: we all truly truly are longing for. You've got to 728 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: act avate your needs. And if you're saying that's ridiculous, 729 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: that's stupid. People with needs are needy and gross and 730 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: un blah blah blah bug. And you think that people 731 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: in these are dramatic and all of that, I mean, 732 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: then you might have an avoided attachment style. And when 733 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: it comes down to it, it is only by feeling 734 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: distress that you will want to actually work on this. 735 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: And you have to activate your needs to feel that distress. 736 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: You have to actually feel like you're not getting what 737 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: you want for you to make a change. And I 738 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: will say, if you're and this goes back to what 739 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: I was saying the beginning, if I'm like, this is 740 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: not permission for you to continue to date somebody who 741 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: has an avoided attached what salent is hurting you because 742 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: you think they can change if their style of relationship 743 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: is working for them, they're not going to change it. 744 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: And until they are able to activate and sit with 745 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: and appreciate their their neediness and their feelings and they're 746 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: able to open up to the idea that they're not 747 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 1: getting what they want anymore, they're not going to make 748 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: that change. So that's why you can't sit around and 749 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 1: just like hope that they're going to change, because you're 750 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: gonna end up maybe even creating an avoid attachment for yourself. 751 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: So I hope that this made some sense to you, guys, 752 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: and I hope that this is starting to open up 753 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,399 Speaker 1: some wave lengths and some ideas of thinking and some 754 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: sense of some things that maybe you've experienced that or 755 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: that you've seen people experience. And I will say, this 756 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: is not an all encompassing description of avoidant attachment. Okay, 757 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: this is a forty minute, forty five minute summary of it, 758 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: and so there's a lot more nuance to it. So 759 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: if you're feeling this and you're like, oh my gosh, 760 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm relating to this take it all with a grain 761 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: of salt as well. And if you want to work 762 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: on this, then I highly recommend you reach out to 763 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: a professional or that book attached that I mentioned earlier, UM, 764 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: I'll link that in the show notes is a really 765 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: good place to start. I encourage you to lean more 766 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: into more and gaining more information because this is just 767 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: an overview. So I think of time we wrap it up, 768 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,919 Speaker 1: and if you have any questions, if any came up again, 769 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: feel free to send that to Catherine at you Need 770 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: Therapy podcast dot com and I will try to do 771 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: an episode where I answer those questions or try to 772 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: answer some of those questions about attachment. And for all 773 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,919 Speaker 1: of you guys that hung in there with me today, 774 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: I hope you're having the day you need to have. 775 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: I hope you have the day you need to have. 776 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: And I will see you guys on Wednesday, or talk 777 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: to you guys. I don't know that I'll see you. 778 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: I will speak to you guys on Wednesday. For couch 779 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: Docs