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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making

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Speaker 1: better decisions. I'm Maria Kannakova and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Nate Silver. We can't escape poker, Maria, No, we can't.

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Speaker 2: We're going to be speaking with very privileged to speak

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Speaker 2: with one of the nine final tableists, Leo Margit's terrific player.

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Speaker 2: You'll see, she's a great personality and talks in a

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Speaker 2: great deal of candor about what this very human experience

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Speaker 2: is like. Also, I believe the first woman in thirty years.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct to reach the final table?

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Speaker 1: That is absolutely correct. So yeah, we'll be giving you

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Speaker 1: a little recap of our own world series, which was

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Speaker 1: not nearly as successful as Leo's, and then we'll let

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Speaker 1: Leo wow you with her deep run. And we're also

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Speaker 1: going to have some interview content from my poker mentor

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Speaker 1: Eric sidell Nay. This is going to be a poker

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Speaker 1: centric pokeerrific Risky Business.

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Speaker 2: It is kind of the origin of our relationship. Definitely

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Speaker 2: probably a little overdetermined, right and kind of the show.

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Speaker 2: So you get some poker on the show sometimes. But

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Speaker 2: I think, as we'll hear in this interview, here's a

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Speaker 2: little trade secret. Sometimes you record the interview before the

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Speaker 2: top of the show, so we know what happened, but

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Speaker 2: it is about decision making under pressure and the very

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Speaker 2: human side of decision making under pressure. Leo is not

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Speaker 2: some gto bot, right, and almost nobody is. When you

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Speaker 2: make the day eight, day nine, how many days they have, ten, eleven,

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Speaker 2: the event right, the final table, when you're playing for

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Speaker 2: far more money than you ever have before for ninety

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Speaker 2: nine point nine percent of the populations. So I think

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Speaker 2: a very honest and kind of look at what it

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Speaker 2: was like through her eyes.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely before we get to layot night. We are both

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Speaker 1: now back in New York City. The World Series is

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Speaker 1: behind us. I ended in the red. Unfortunately, did you

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Speaker 1: end in the black or in the red? Did you

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Speaker 1: make money or dead?

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Speaker 3: Ever?

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Speaker 2: Money black can hold them. But then all these stupid

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Speaker 2: fucking mix games, right anyway, that's another.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 2: It was a decent world I had a lot of

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Speaker 2: cashes at a pretty deep ran the main event, but like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've run these numbers and like for a single World series,

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Speaker 2: you're going to end in the red seventy five percent

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Speaker 2: of the time because it's concentrated in the one time

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Speaker 2: when you do make five hundred K by getting third

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Speaker 2: place in the monster stack or something which happens once

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Speaker 2: every infanity million years. Right, so you have to, like,

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Speaker 2: you have to take events where you're get pretty good

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Speaker 2: results are in the mix a lot as being relatively

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Speaker 2: tolerable at least.

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Speaker 1: Yep for sure. For sure. Now, even though I'm in

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Speaker 1: the red, I'm pretty happy with how the summer went.

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Speaker 1: It is, you know, much better than last summer, where

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Speaker 1: I was really in the red, six figures in the red.

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Speaker 1: This summer is much more mild, much more manageable. I

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Speaker 1: did have some deep runs, you know, I had second

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Speaker 1: place finish online. I had a nice deep run not

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Speaker 1: at the World Series but at the Venetian in the

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Speaker 1: World Poker Tour. So so I had some really nice

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Speaker 1: moments where I could have really made something happen. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a big difference even between second and first,

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Speaker 1: certainly between fiftieth and first. So those moments can make

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Speaker 1: or break a summer. You know, had I just done

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Speaker 1: a tiny bit better, I would have been in the black.

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Speaker 1: But I was there, right, I was in the position,

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Speaker 1: in the position to do a tiny bit better, And

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Speaker 1: that makes me happy, right, Like, that's that's what you

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Speaker 1: That's the best that you can do is keep putting

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Speaker 1: yourself in that position to make the really big money.

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Speaker 1: And as long as you can keep getting there, then

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Speaker 1: eventually you'll you'll get over the top and be able

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Speaker 1: to kind of break through. And you know that, I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's what I found. Nate, You've done that too,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that as long as we keep

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Speaker 1: performing well, I think it can't you can't think of

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Speaker 1: it as a failure, even when you know this time

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Speaker 1: around you didn't quite make it over the top, because

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Speaker 1: it is just you know, one or two hands away

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Speaker 1: from a winning.

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Speaker 2: Summer, literally right, the whole summer can and this and

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Speaker 2: be careful to keep in mind when things work in

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Speaker 2: your favor. Right, it's easy to think about your bust

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Speaker 2: out hand, whether it was a bad beat or a

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Speaker 2: cooler or a flip you loss, you thro all terms

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Speaker 2: booker players will know, right or in my case, triple

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Speaker 2: heir a bluff that called down strong hair on top

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Speaker 2: of his range, almost up in the fold.

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Speaker 3: He didn't, right.

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Speaker 2: But you know, you also usually win a lot of flips,

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Speaker 2: get a lot of luck. There's lots of luck in

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Speaker 2: ways that is more subtle sometimes, right when your opponent

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Speaker 2: has a hand that shouldn't bust you and they chicken

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Speaker 2: out and don't bet thinly enough. Right when you're rescued

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Speaker 2: from making a dumb shove because someone else shoves first

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Speaker 2: and they run into as instead of you. Right, the

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Speaker 2: butterfly effect. There's a lot of luck involved. Speaking of luck,

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Speaker 2: Versus said, do you have any thoughts on the main

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Speaker 2: event champion? Michael Musrochi. He's a very good and intimidating player.

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Speaker 2: He also had a crazy run. I think Doug Polk

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Speaker 2: ran the numbers and found like you're like ninety nine

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Speaker 2: point ninth percentile luck and all ins.

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Speaker 1: He did, he did, And there was one moment where

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Speaker 1: I think he had won ten or eleven all ins

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Speaker 1: in a row. Nate, that is so improbable, right, I

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Speaker 1: think think back to, like, what's the greatest streak you've

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Speaker 1: ever had in winning all ins? I think mine might

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Speaker 1: be three, right, Like, I don't think I've ever won

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Speaker 1: more than three all ins in a row like that.

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Speaker 1: I tried to think about it, but ten is just

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Speaker 1: it's insane. So he was he was running. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can say someone runs pure, and that means that

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Speaker 1: they win all of their all ins when they're ahead.

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Speaker 1: He was running more than pure because he won the

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Speaker 1: ones where he was behind, right, he actually ended up

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Speaker 1: hitting his you know, lucky one card. And just to

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Speaker 1: be clear that this doesn't take away anything from the

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Speaker 1: fact that he's a really you know, tricky player, that

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Speaker 1: he puts people in tough spots, that he played well

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Speaker 1: as well. I'm not trying to detract from that, but

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Speaker 1: it's really good to remember that you need to run

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Speaker 1: like god right to win these But.

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Speaker 2: He Yeah, so he one out of ten thousand people

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Speaker 2: wins the main event, right, so if you run ninety

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Speaker 2: nine out of one hundred in terms of luck and

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Speaker 2: then ninety nine out of one hundred in terms of skill,

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Speaker 2: and you could debate, but he's certainly pretty far up

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Speaker 2: in the stratosphere, especially by the way for terment like

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Speaker 2: the main event, where a lot of people are scared,

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Speaker 2: where you're at the same table for a long time. Right,

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Speaker 2: he is certainly making technical mistakes. But like you have

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Speaker 2: not seen like the German Solver gto pros do that

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Speaker 2: well in the main you see people like Michael do

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Speaker 2: well because there's the intimation factor. There's a player reading factor,

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Speaker 2: there's the fearlessness. So many people clam up and play

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Speaker 2: like knits when you see anything beyond day five to

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Speaker 2: six a main event coverage, right, and you.

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Speaker 3: Can't have that.

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Speaker 1: You can't accuse the grind of being a lot, but

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Speaker 1: a knit is not one of those facts. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, for people who weren't watching, not only did

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Speaker 1: he win the main event, he for the fourth time

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Speaker 1: won the fifty K Players Championship and immediately after winning

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Speaker 1: the main event was inducted into the Poker Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: That has never happened before, so he became.

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Speaker 2: Usually has to die for them to like like if

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Speaker 2: someone dies, like accelerate in baseball, they're through the Hall

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Speaker 2: of Fame.

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Speaker 1: So it was quite quite the year for him. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I I just to if I'm being perfectly honest,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he was the technically best player at

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Speaker 1: the final table. I don't think he was. He was

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Speaker 1: number one, But in terms of his intuition, in terms

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Speaker 1: of his presence, and in terms of just like he

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Speaker 1: was on a roll. And you can't you can't. You

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Speaker 1: can't underestimate that, right, Like there are this is true

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Speaker 1: in sports, true, like we just to like branch out

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Speaker 1: a little bit. We've talked on the show before about

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Speaker 1: the hot hand fallacy, where then it turned out, you

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Speaker 1: know that the hand fallacy is actually a fallacy in

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Speaker 1: itself because it's not a fallacy in certain situations, including

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Speaker 1: in places like poker, where like that sort of aura

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Speaker 1: and that sort of mindset can actually affect how other

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Speaker 1: people play, right, Like, if you think I'm invincible right now,

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Speaker 1: then people will play differently against you, and you can't

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Speaker 1: fake it, by the way, like this is something that

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Speaker 1: has to come comes from somewhere else and people so

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Speaker 1: people do get hot hands, right, And it's not that

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Speaker 1: the odds change, it's that Nate. You know, last week

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Speaker 1: on the show, we talked about butterfly effect. You just

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Speaker 1: mentioned it here, But it's that the different those different

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Speaker 1: things on the margin shift a tiny bit enough to

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Speaker 1: put the odds more in your favor and you end

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Speaker 1: up kind of doing better than you otherwise would. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that's a really really powerful factor that

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't underestimate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's tricky against the player? I mean, look, you

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Speaker 2: know this this more with like intermediate players and someone

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Speaker 2: like miss Rahi, right, but by day four of a

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Speaker 2: big tournament, especially the main event. Everyone has run well

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Speaker 2: to get to day four. Some people are playing with

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Speaker 2: a lot more confidence for the most part, and it's

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Speaker 2: routine to see people who have a lot of chips

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Speaker 2: make one or two loose plays that they probably shouldn't make,

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Speaker 2: but aren't that bad, then take a bad beat and

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Speaker 2: then tilt right.

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Speaker 1: It's funny. I've seen kind of your player rating sheet,

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Speaker 1: which I think is amazing. I'm not quite that systematic

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Speaker 1: about it, but I do always when I look up players,

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Speaker 1: one of the things I do is I look at

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Speaker 1: their most recent results, right, and I think, oh, this person,

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Speaker 1: like he has X in earnings, but he just came

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Speaker 1: in second in the Millionaire Maker, right, so he just

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Speaker 1: had this insane score that is going to matter, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that is actually something that you should be looking at.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't just be looking at what are the total earnings?

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Speaker 1: How long have you been playing? Sure that matters? How

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Speaker 1: have you been doing recently? Right? Did you have a

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Speaker 1: huge score? Did you have a huge score yesterday? Like

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Speaker 1: where is your head at? And how are you going

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Speaker 1: to be playing differently as a result? And I think

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Speaker 1: that that actually makes a really big difference.

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Speaker 2: We saw that, right, Someone who you know has been

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Speaker 2: at the World Series for a month and they have

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Speaker 2: two small catch from Prisco, right, yep. Unless they had

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Speaker 2: some family incident in the in between, they're probably going

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Speaker 2: to be not the invest mentality yep.

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Speaker 1: I think that those are really important things to take

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Speaker 1: into consideration when you do your kind of decision making calculus.

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Speaker 1: And it's good to remember. This is why you know,

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Speaker 1: solvers are great and all, but there are when you're

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Speaker 1: playing live poker, they are all these other factors that

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Speaker 1: have to go into your decision tree. This is true

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Speaker 1: of all, you know, all decisions like you just need

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Speaker 1: to take the full situation into account. People who can

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Speaker 1: do that well end up doing well. I think the

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Speaker 1: grinder is someone who is very good at kind of

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Speaker 1: sizing people up. Even though I doubt Nate that he

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Speaker 1: looked anyone up on handed Mob or did any research

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Speaker 1: on his opponents, he just has a good, you know, presence,

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Speaker 1: and he's able to do things like that. Laomarchet's someone

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Speaker 1: who is very intuitive at the table. I think we

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Speaker 1: could see that. So I think that these are just

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Speaker 1: important things, important things to note, important things too, to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind. Nate. One more thing about the World Series.

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Speaker 1: A few weeks back, we remember we had listener Tim

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Speaker 1: Senstock on the show. He was going to be coming

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Speaker 1: out to the World Series, and we talked to him

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Speaker 1: in June, gave him some pointers about the events he

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Speaker 1: was going to play, and I actually ran into him

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Speaker 1: in the World Series in the hallway at some point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gave I gave him a hug, and he seemed

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Speaker 1: in good spirits. And then afterwards we did check in

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Speaker 1: to see how his World Series went, and yeah, he

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Speaker 1: wrote us back. So remember, Nate, you and I weren't

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Speaker 1: too enthusiastic about the Ultra Stack because the structure is

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Speaker 1: actually quite bad, right, but you know, there are good

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Speaker 1: things about it. So he ended up playing that. He

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Speaker 1: ended up playing both day once. He did last for

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Speaker 1: a good chunk of the day, but busted both days

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Speaker 1: just before Cashing. After dinner, he says he did really

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Speaker 1: well in Cash though, so he ended on a positive note, Nate.

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Speaker 1: So Tim did better than you and I did. He

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Speaker 1: ended his World Series in the black, whereas you and

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Speaker 1: I ended in the red. And he said that some

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Speaker 1: of the tips we gave him, like, you know, not

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Speaker 1: worrying about the clock playing his own game. I think

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Speaker 1: that he says that it helped him. I hope it did,

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Speaker 1: and I hope next year he's able to do well,

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Speaker 1: not only at the cash tables but also in the tournaments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, isidated like to have a few more reps for

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Speaker 2: these tournaments. I mean, the thing that's unique about poker

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Speaker 2: is that you are thrown into the frying pan sometime

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Speaker 2: and you least expect it, right, Poker never quite goes.

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Speaker 2: It's not a tame beast.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it isn't. Sometimes you've got a good game

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Speaker 1: plan and then you know, Mike Tyson comes in, sucks

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Speaker 1: you and the job there, It all goes, It all

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Speaker 1: goes out the window. Nate, good luck to the two

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Speaker 1: of us next year at the World Series, and you

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Speaker 1: know I'll be at Barcelona. You will not be, but hopefully,

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Speaker 1: you know, hopefully we will run well and play well

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Speaker 1: in whatever we undertake next. Let's have some of that

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Speaker 1: ten all ins in a row. Luck rub off on us.

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Speaker 1: So congratulations to everyone. I hope everyone had a good

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Speaker 1: World Series. And with that, Nate, let's take a break

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Speaker 1: and talk to Leo Margett's Nate and I are so

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Speaker 1: excited to welcome a very special guest, Leo Marrigettes, who

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Speaker 1: has become the first woman in thirty years to make

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Speaker 1: the final table of the WSOP main event. This really

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Speaker 1: is a historic event, no matter what some people on

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Speaker 1: Twitter may say, and we are so. I was so

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Speaker 1: excited to talk to her about it, to talk about

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Speaker 1: her run, and just in general talk some poker and

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Speaker 1: some historic achievements. Welcome to the show. We're so happy

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Speaker 1: to have you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Maria, thank you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Leo. You and I I think I met you

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Speaker 1: right away when I started playing poker back back, you know,

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Speaker 1: six years ago, but you'd been playing already forever, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, wow, she's she's done so much, So

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Speaker 1: why don't you just start off by telling us kind

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Speaker 1: of what this year means to you and kind of

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Speaker 1: in the scope of your poker career, because you've been

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Speaker 1: playing for over a decade years.

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Speaker 4: That was my siventing seven.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, almost two decades.

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Speaker 4: That's yeah, I'm a nine ers.

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Speaker 5: It was my seventeenth main event every year scenes two

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Speaker 5: thousand and nine.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Nate, how many main events have you played?

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Speaker 3: I played nine?

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Speaker 2: I think my first film was in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: nine or eleven.

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Speaker 3: But I skipped I skipped it.

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Speaker 1: By all right. So Leo, Nate and I together have

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Speaker 1: played fewer main events that you that you have played

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Speaker 1: by yourself.

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Speaker 5: When I say I've played seventeen to many events, it

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Speaker 5: looks so alien to me, you know, likes if I

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Speaker 5: don't relate because I have I'm zero burnout with poker.

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Speaker 4: I love the game. I love intrinsically the game.

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Speaker 5: Like, so that motivation or that drive was the one

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Speaker 5: that didn't ever let me burn out.

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Speaker 1: That's great. How did you you know during the main

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Speaker 1: how did you make it so that, like your brain

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Speaker 1: could stay focused as opposed to letting external things get

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Speaker 1: to you, because it's so the main is hard. It's

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Speaker 1: so long, right, if you go deep, it's so many days.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely an energy game.

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Speaker 5: Maybe since twenty eighteen, I usually do an extent every

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Speaker 5: long series, an extent where I at the end of

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Speaker 5: the day, I rank myself on whatever for categories like

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Speaker 5: goals in mind, focused, technical skills, and then it's very

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Speaker 5: interesting to see how ranking helps me stay in track,

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Speaker 5: because like imagine you go to the gym and day

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Speaker 5: one you can do ten reps with one hundred killers

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Speaker 5: in squad. If you do that every day for a week,

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Speaker 5: on day eight, you're one hundred percent without rest.

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Speaker 4: No way is going to be ten reps with one

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Speaker 4: hundred killers.

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Speaker 5: And physically we all see it, but mentally it's not

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Speaker 5: so easy to see unless we note it, because you

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Speaker 5: might think on day eleventh of as series, online or life,

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00:16:44,884 --> 00:16:47,844
Speaker 5: you can tell to yourself, being honest, no, I'm giving

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Speaker 5: my one hundred percent. So you feel chill because you think, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I'm doing my one hundred percent, but you're one hundred

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Speaker 5: percent is a fraction of what can be. You're one

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Speaker 5: hundred percent maybe sixty percent of what your potential one

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Speaker 5: hundred percent can be.

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Speaker 4: So this extral helps me a lot because.

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Speaker 5: When I start having sevens in my grades, I just

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Speaker 5: take a day off and it helps. The next day

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Speaker 5: I improved so much.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 5: And then also I realized that it was a good

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Speaker 5: idea for me to write my goals as if my

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Speaker 5: ideal LEO, what will my idea LEO?

339
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Speaker 4: Do you know?

340
00:17:25,244 --> 00:17:28,124
Speaker 5: Accepting, I discovered that to play well, I need to

341
00:17:28,164 --> 00:17:30,844
Speaker 5: have fun in the table. And this together with what

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00:17:30,884 --> 00:17:35,884
Speaker 5: I was dealing with writing my goals and thinking that

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Speaker 5: I wanted to be the only one validating my decisions.

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Speaker 5: You know, like as long as I could explain to

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Speaker 5: myself why I was doing something, I don't care about

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Speaker 5: external people judging.

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Speaker 4: There will always be people judging.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, that made it actually easy because it was

349
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Speaker 5: like I was approaching every day with zero expectations and

350
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Speaker 5: zero of fear and like zero fear of basting, zero

351
00:18:04,804 --> 00:18:08,004
Speaker 5: fear gero anxiety to win. It was just Okay, I'm

352
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Speaker 5: going to focus on every hand the best I can.

353
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Speaker 5: I'm gonna have fun, I'm gonna take my time to

354
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Speaker 5: make every decision, and.

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Speaker 4: I'm super happy because I was.

356
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Speaker 5: I mean, this is I think that my biggest accomlument

357
00:18:21,004 --> 00:18:23,604
Speaker 5: I was the leo I would have liked to be

358
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Speaker 5: in that in a spot like this, right that. Of course,

359
00:18:27,084 --> 00:18:31,964
Speaker 5: you even when you read the final table, you think, okay,

360
00:18:31,964 --> 00:18:35,444
Speaker 5: I'm very calm, but still I was ready to experience

361
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Speaker 5: some nerves. And I mean I did have beat, but

362
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Speaker 5: it was nerves.

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Speaker 1: I was.

364
00:18:41,324 --> 00:18:43,924
Speaker 5: I was where I wanted to be, So it was

365
00:18:44,524 --> 00:18:45,684
Speaker 5: such a nice experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one thing you realize, right, and I

367
00:18:52,124 --> 00:18:54,444
Speaker 2: have not made it nearly as deep as you Leo.

368
00:18:54,524 --> 00:18:56,204
Speaker 2: I have had to stay six and day five in

369
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Speaker 2: the past couple of years. The nerves build, at least

370
00:19:01,364 --> 00:19:03,804
Speaker 2: for normal people. Maybe you're not normal, right, for normal people,

371
00:19:03,844 --> 00:19:07,484
Speaker 2: and I think even all that, like the top people

372
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Speaker 2: who have like made multiple final ties before, Right, there's

373
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Speaker 2: some point at what you're playing poker for more money

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Speaker 2: than you ever have or perhaps ever will, right, you know?

375
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Speaker 2: For me, I think kind of the inflection point comes

376
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Speaker 2: at like day four at the dinner break, where you're

377
00:19:25,644 --> 00:19:27,204
Speaker 2: in the money now a lot of people are busted

378
00:19:27,244 --> 00:19:30,484
Speaker 2: and you're like, okay, ninety three percent of people have

379
00:19:30,524 --> 00:19:32,084
Speaker 2: been a limit for this tournament. All my friends I

380
00:19:32,124 --> 00:19:35,844
Speaker 2: usually get dinner with are gone playing some other event. Right,

381
00:19:36,684 --> 00:19:40,404
Speaker 2: how are you dealing with the increasing stress? Are you

382
00:19:40,564 --> 00:19:42,884
Speaker 2: trying to put it out of your mind? Are you

383
00:19:42,964 --> 00:19:46,244
Speaker 2: trying to get in a zone where you channel it

384
00:19:46,364 --> 00:19:48,364
Speaker 2: in some ways? But what's And you had a deep

385
00:19:48,884 --> 00:19:51,844
Speaker 2: run in a while ago, like two thousand and nine, right,

386
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Speaker 2: did that help? How were your coping mechanisms?

387
00:19:54,124 --> 00:19:58,564
Speaker 5: I guess well, I did run my first ever main event,

388
00:19:58,724 --> 00:20:02,004
Speaker 5: and I am so grateful that I had the chance

389
00:20:02,084 --> 00:20:05,964
Speaker 5: to improve from all the things I did back back

390
00:20:06,204 --> 00:20:09,364
Speaker 5: By then, like a just being a look in.

391
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Speaker 4: The phone the day before and being very.

392
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Speaker 5: Susceptable you have, even to the comments and getting all

393
00:20:20,404 --> 00:20:25,964
Speaker 5: these dopamine rush from everyone saying stuff. So I was

394
00:20:26,004 --> 00:20:28,164
Speaker 5: so happy to be able to do things better after

395
00:20:28,244 --> 00:20:32,844
Speaker 5: they six, not opening Instagram anymore, not taking the phone,

396
00:20:33,004 --> 00:20:36,444
Speaker 5: just proactively texting whoever I wanted. I texted my parents

397
00:20:36,484 --> 00:20:38,764
Speaker 5: and said, hey, I'm alive. I'm actually doing very well.

398
00:20:39,164 --> 00:20:42,484
Speaker 5: Don't worry for me and the rest.

399
00:20:42,604 --> 00:20:45,804
Speaker 4: I have to say I didn't feel any pressure.

400
00:20:46,484 --> 00:20:49,844
Speaker 5: I know people think I might, you know, like because

401
00:20:49,924 --> 00:20:52,964
Speaker 5: it was such a dibra and long time since a

402
00:20:53,044 --> 00:20:53,884
Speaker 5: women didn't do it.

403
00:20:53,924 --> 00:20:56,804
Speaker 4: But I didn't feel any pressure I had.

404
00:20:57,804 --> 00:21:01,524
Speaker 5: I just wanted to give my best right and the

405
00:21:01,644 --> 00:21:05,004
Speaker 5: challenge really was that once I made the main event.

406
00:21:05,604 --> 00:21:08,484
Speaker 5: I once I made the final table, it was a

407
00:21:08,564 --> 00:21:12,764
Speaker 5: bitterly for many people, even for myself. I felt so happy,

408
00:21:12,804 --> 00:21:16,884
Speaker 5: but at the same time, it was not done. I mean,

409
00:21:17,124 --> 00:21:19,724
Speaker 5: it actually just started. I get the goosebumps when I

410
00:21:19,724 --> 00:21:24,244
Speaker 5: say it, because but the feeling that everyone's was already

411
00:21:24,284 --> 00:21:27,684
Speaker 5: celebrating it was a bit contradictory because you also wanted

412
00:21:27,684 --> 00:21:29,764
Speaker 5: to relax and think wow, so good.

413
00:21:29,804 --> 00:21:30,404
Speaker 4: But then.

414
00:21:32,244 --> 00:21:35,884
Speaker 5: I had the fucking incredible chance in my life to

415
00:21:35,884 --> 00:21:37,484
Speaker 5: be in a spot where you know, you can do

416
00:21:37,604 --> 00:21:40,204
Speaker 5: super big, even if it was already very good. And

417
00:21:40,284 --> 00:21:45,724
Speaker 5: I remember having a chat the night before Adri and

418
00:21:45,764 --> 00:21:48,764
Speaker 5: Steph and talking to them and and Adrid said, do

419
00:21:48,804 --> 00:21:51,964
Speaker 5: you know you can win this thing? Right? And it's

420
00:21:52,084 --> 00:21:56,444
Speaker 5: like and then he said, and you know you can

421
00:21:56,484 --> 00:21:58,724
Speaker 5: win this thing and you can bust first hand. And

422
00:21:59,204 --> 00:22:03,604
Speaker 5: these words didn't fail overwhelming. It felt, yeah, I'm gonna

423
00:22:03,764 --> 00:22:07,324
Speaker 5: I'm gonna play this. I'm gonna do my best, you know.

424
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Speaker 5: And happily I don't have any regrets even if I had,

425
00:22:11,764 --> 00:22:14,564
Speaker 5: because it could happen, you know, pressure whatever. I could

426
00:22:14,564 --> 00:22:17,404
Speaker 5: have had regrets on how I played, I'm very happy

427
00:22:17,404 --> 00:22:17,884
Speaker 5: that I don't.

428
00:22:17,964 --> 00:22:19,724
Speaker 4: But I was even ready to make.

429
00:22:19,644 --> 00:22:22,284
Speaker 5: Mistakes if you know, I can give my best and

430
00:22:22,324 --> 00:22:25,964
Speaker 5: still make some mistakes. But I I am happy with

431
00:22:26,004 --> 00:22:28,004
Speaker 5: the play, with how I plate, with how I handle

432
00:22:28,244 --> 00:22:34,084
Speaker 5: the situation. So yeah, just like incredibly grateful also to

433
00:22:34,164 --> 00:22:37,324
Speaker 5: share it, like with my close friends that were there,

434
00:22:38,484 --> 00:22:42,604
Speaker 5: with my team, with the community, because after everything passed,

435
00:22:42,644 --> 00:22:45,644
Speaker 5: I realized, how, you know, how much people had been

436
00:22:45,804 --> 00:22:48,204
Speaker 5: routing and it's so cool to be in a spot

437
00:22:48,244 --> 00:22:48,924
Speaker 5: where you want.

438
00:22:49,204 --> 00:22:50,244
Speaker 4: You could feel the energy.

439
00:22:50,244 --> 00:22:54,324
Speaker 5: I could feel Michael's mom like on my way to

440
00:22:54,364 --> 00:22:57,044
Speaker 5: the final table, she just said, oh, you know, my

441
00:22:57,124 --> 00:22:59,924
Speaker 5: heart is divided because my son is also there.

442
00:22:59,964 --> 00:23:03,604
Speaker 4: But I you know, this kind of stuff, this kind

443
00:23:03,644 --> 00:23:08,124
Speaker 4: of like we all have people in our lives. I

444
00:23:08,964 --> 00:23:09,924
Speaker 4: reflect better than that.

445
00:23:09,924 --> 00:23:13,004
Speaker 5: We all have people in our lives that loves us

446
00:23:13,244 --> 00:23:17,324
Speaker 5: or support us. But it's not that gom on to

447
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:21,564
Speaker 5: be that lives pood in us both where people can

448
00:23:21,604 --> 00:23:26,244
Speaker 5: show you they're support and their love in sata granibre.

449
00:23:25,844 --> 00:23:28,524
Speaker 1: Way, something that you said earlier. I just want to

450
00:23:28,644 --> 00:23:31,044
Speaker 1: point out for for everyone because I think it's so

451
00:23:31,084 --> 00:23:35,004
Speaker 1: important and people forget it. You could tell watching the

452
00:23:35,044 --> 00:23:37,524
Speaker 1: final table, like watching the runs, like you could tell

453
00:23:37,684 --> 00:23:41,244
Speaker 1: the whole time like there were people who were, you know,

454
00:23:41,804 --> 00:23:44,364
Speaker 1: just super focused, which obviously like it's a main event,

455
00:23:44,404 --> 00:23:46,604
Speaker 1: it's good, but you were all you were playing well,

456
00:23:46,684 --> 00:23:49,244
Speaker 1: but you were having a blast and you could actually

457
00:23:49,284 --> 00:23:52,484
Speaker 1: feel that energy. And I think that that's so important

458
00:23:52,484 --> 00:23:57,084
Speaker 1: to remember. I mean, poker is a phenomenal way to

459
00:23:57,164 --> 00:23:59,844
Speaker 1: learn how to think better. Right. It is such like

460
00:23:59,924 --> 00:24:04,324
Speaker 1: a It is an incredibly powerful, you know, mental tool,

461
00:24:04,404 --> 00:24:06,204
Speaker 1: all of these things, but it's also a game, right,

462
00:24:06,244 --> 00:24:08,844
Speaker 1: It's also supposed to be fun, and I think people

463
00:24:08,884 --> 00:24:11,604
Speaker 1: lose sight of that, and I wonder, you know, I

464
00:24:12,364 --> 00:24:15,364
Speaker 1: would love to think that part of your exceptional performance

465
00:24:15,444 --> 00:24:17,844
Speaker 1: was due to the fact that you had a blast, right,

466
00:24:17,884 --> 00:24:19,964
Speaker 1: that you were actually enjoying yourself.

467
00:24:19,724 --> 00:24:22,044
Speaker 5: Well, because I don't know other people, but I also

468
00:24:22,284 --> 00:24:25,484
Speaker 5: I mean, in poker can be tool also to know

469
00:24:25,604 --> 00:24:28,924
Speaker 5: yourself better, right exactly exa absolutely for me this year,

470
00:24:29,004 --> 00:24:31,444
Speaker 5: and it's been seventeen years that I've been playing at

471
00:24:31,444 --> 00:24:36,324
Speaker 5: this more seriously, I realized, I give my best when

472
00:24:36,364 --> 00:24:39,764
Speaker 5: I'm having fun, and at the end, we are lucky

473
00:24:39,844 --> 00:24:43,364
Speaker 5: enough to put our time and energy and effort into

474
00:24:43,404 --> 00:24:45,284
Speaker 5: a game, and yeah, what are games for?

475
00:24:45,524 --> 00:24:48,004
Speaker 4: Like Like, I in the same way that when I trained.

476
00:24:47,924 --> 00:24:51,404
Speaker 5: In the gym, I enjoy I have fun and that's why,

477
00:24:51,444 --> 00:24:53,844
Speaker 5: probably why I stick to it. With poker is the same,

478
00:24:53,924 --> 00:24:55,684
Speaker 5: like it was so different. I don't think I've ever

479
00:24:55,724 --> 00:24:58,604
Speaker 5: had so much fun. And in a way, there was

480
00:24:58,644 --> 00:25:00,524
Speaker 5: a couple of hours that I didn't have any.

481
00:25:00,364 --> 00:25:06,084
Speaker 6: Fun from ninety hours of play, no, and then I

482
00:25:06,124 --> 00:25:09,044
Speaker 6: went when I was not having fun, I went again

483
00:25:09,724 --> 00:25:11,524
Speaker 6: to rushing decisions.

484
00:25:11,564 --> 00:25:14,844
Speaker 5: I remember a hand with with Michael, I just snapped

485
00:25:14,884 --> 00:25:18,804
Speaker 5: folded to avoid the uncomfortability, me not having fun, me

486
00:25:18,924 --> 00:25:24,324
Speaker 5: not having fun, embracing uncomfortable spots. Hey, poker is gonna

487
00:25:24,364 --> 00:25:26,844
Speaker 5: bring you uncomfortable spots.

488
00:25:27,124 --> 00:25:27,884
Speaker 4: You know.

489
00:25:29,124 --> 00:25:31,644
Speaker 5: In the beginning of the series, I was so much

490
00:25:31,684 --> 00:25:34,884
Speaker 5: in the mood that I even wanted to experience those

491
00:25:34,964 --> 00:25:37,724
Speaker 5: uncomfortable situations because it's gonna happen if you avoid them.

492
00:25:37,804 --> 00:25:40,204
Speaker 5: You know, it's impossible you perform well because it's like

493
00:25:41,004 --> 00:25:44,644
Speaker 5: it doesn't happen. You know, you cannot just seek easy

494
00:25:45,124 --> 00:25:49,364
Speaker 5: sports or easy decisions. So I just needed to switch

495
00:25:49,404 --> 00:25:52,964
Speaker 5: my mind and say, hey, let's embrace and comfort. I

496
00:25:53,084 --> 00:25:56,484
Speaker 5: was almost curious and looking forward to get those uncomfortable

497
00:25:56,524 --> 00:26:00,644
Speaker 5: spots that come from playing poker, especially in high level,

498
00:26:01,404 --> 00:26:03,924
Speaker 5: lead level. You know, like you're gonna accept it. You're

499
00:26:03,924 --> 00:26:06,524
Speaker 5: gonna go through on comfortable spots, and you need to

500
00:26:06,524 --> 00:26:08,684
Speaker 5: deal with them and done with them, because if you

501
00:26:08,724 --> 00:26:14,524
Speaker 5: just asking them one of the time, okay.

502
00:26:12,724 --> 00:26:16,324
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're never gonna learn. You know. I love

503
00:26:16,364 --> 00:26:18,604
Speaker 1: that you're pointing out the importance of taking your time.

504
00:26:18,684 --> 00:26:20,404
Speaker 1: This is something I need to work on as well,

505
00:26:20,604 --> 00:26:23,604
Speaker 1: because I'm a fast player. I make quick decisions. I

506
00:26:23,644 --> 00:26:26,884
Speaker 1: don't like tanking. I don't like when people tank, Like

507
00:26:27,204 --> 00:26:29,404
Speaker 1: you know, I'm one of those people who calls the clock.

508
00:26:30,324 --> 00:26:35,044
Speaker 1: And but it's something that like, sometimes I've made big

509
00:26:35,084 --> 00:26:39,364
Speaker 1: mistakes because I've acted too quickly. And I think that sometimes,

510
00:26:39,524 --> 00:26:42,844
Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to kind of just snap full snap,

511
00:26:42,964 --> 00:26:46,124
Speaker 1: you know, just just make those quick decisions because you think.

512
00:26:46,804 --> 00:26:49,684
Speaker 1: But something that you that you said, even though like

513
00:26:49,884 --> 00:26:52,324
Speaker 1: just to make sure that you're not missing something, just

514
00:26:52,364 --> 00:26:54,764
Speaker 1: to kind of think it through. I think that in

515
00:26:54,804 --> 00:26:57,284
Speaker 1: poker and in life, we often don't write. We we

516
00:26:57,404 --> 00:27:00,364
Speaker 1: often don't take the time to just make sure and

517
00:27:00,444 --> 00:27:03,164
Speaker 1: instead we just act. And I think that that's just

518
00:27:03,204 --> 00:27:06,604
Speaker 1: such an important reminder that I'm glad that that was

519
00:27:06,644 --> 00:27:09,404
Speaker 1: something that that you've brought up explicitly.

520
00:27:10,124 --> 00:27:12,524
Speaker 4: As you said, it also happened to me when it

521
00:27:12,684 --> 00:27:13,564
Speaker 4: was one of my leaks.

522
00:27:13,604 --> 00:27:16,444
Speaker 5: It was one of the columns I raised myself for

523
00:27:16,484 --> 00:27:20,244
Speaker 5: today because I leak on that sometimes it's not playing

524
00:27:20,284 --> 00:27:25,404
Speaker 5: too fast, and I know some of the mistakes I

525
00:27:25,404 --> 00:27:28,084
Speaker 5: made worse because of that, because I believe I can

526
00:27:28,164 --> 00:27:31,124
Speaker 5: think well right like I can have Obviously, as I said,

527
00:27:31,204 --> 00:27:33,444
Speaker 5: I don't know anything, and there's always so much time,

528
00:27:33,564 --> 00:27:34,444
Speaker 5: that's so much.

529
00:27:34,564 --> 00:27:35,564
Speaker 4: Room for improvement.

530
00:27:35,644 --> 00:27:38,204
Speaker 5: But at least if I make a mistake, is I

531
00:27:38,244 --> 00:27:40,084
Speaker 5: want it to be because there's something I don't know,

532
00:27:40,244 --> 00:27:43,364
Speaker 5: not because it's something I could have got there if

533
00:27:43,404 --> 00:27:46,284
Speaker 5: I just allowed myself a couple more minutes to think.

534
00:27:46,884 --> 00:27:50,684
Speaker 2: Yeah, that gap between the kind of idealized leo and

535
00:27:50,724 --> 00:27:53,044
Speaker 2: the actual one. Because we've all had hands as poker players,

536
00:27:53,204 --> 00:27:56,404
Speaker 2: but everybody, right, I assume that like in the moment,

537
00:27:56,404 --> 00:27:58,564
Speaker 2: you're like, boy, if I were a really good player,

538
00:27:59,884 --> 00:28:01,444
Speaker 2: I would fold this hand, or if I were a

539
00:28:01,444 --> 00:28:04,724
Speaker 2: really good player, I would turn this hand into a bluff.

540
00:28:05,164 --> 00:28:08,164
Speaker 2: And you're tired, and you and you don't do it right,

541
00:28:08,204 --> 00:28:09,884
Speaker 2: and you kind of know you're not doing it, and

542
00:28:09,964 --> 00:28:13,044
Speaker 2: like somehow you're not capable of like just pushing your

543
00:28:13,044 --> 00:28:15,124
Speaker 2: hand in a different motion. Did you have a big

544
00:28:15,164 --> 00:28:17,044
Speaker 2: stack early in the main or when did you start

545
00:28:17,044 --> 00:28:19,284
Speaker 2: to like think I can make the final table.

546
00:28:19,444 --> 00:28:19,724
Speaker 3: Never?

547
00:28:20,284 --> 00:28:23,524
Speaker 5: I just well, I was focusing on every hand, and

548
00:28:23,524 --> 00:28:24,164
Speaker 5: that's the good thing.

549
00:28:24,204 --> 00:28:28,564
Speaker 4: I didn't have any expectations. The expectation the goal.

550
00:28:28,444 --> 00:28:31,084
Speaker 5: Is not honestly, and that's why I'm more like proud

551
00:28:31,124 --> 00:28:34,204
Speaker 5: about it, because I didn't really thought I'm going to

552
00:28:34,244 --> 00:28:36,284
Speaker 5: make finance they want, so all of a sudden we

553
00:28:36,284 --> 00:28:37,804
Speaker 5: weren't in the final dayment and I'm like.

554
00:28:38,364 --> 00:28:42,004
Speaker 1: That's great, So do you I mean obviously people will

555
00:28:42,644 --> 00:28:44,444
Speaker 1: you know, talk about this. It is kind of a

556
00:28:44,604 --> 00:28:47,324
Speaker 1: historic moment, you know, first time in thirty years, first

557
00:28:47,404 --> 00:28:50,164
Speaker 1: time in the modern era. Not to take anything away

558
00:28:50,164 --> 00:28:52,644
Speaker 1: from Barbara and right, but making it through like two

559
00:28:52,764 --> 00:28:55,404
Speaker 1: hundred players is very different from making your through ten

560
00:28:55,484 --> 00:28:59,324
Speaker 1: thousand players, right, It's a totally different game. So do

561
00:28:59,484 --> 00:29:03,284
Speaker 1: you are you know, for others it's a big deal

562
00:29:03,404 --> 00:29:06,364
Speaker 1: for you, Like, now that it's over, is this a

563
00:29:06,364 --> 00:29:08,404
Speaker 1: big deal? Is it going to change kind of how

564
00:29:08,444 --> 00:29:12,004
Speaker 1: you what you're doing going forward? Or was it just

565
00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:14,444
Speaker 1: one more tournament that you went deep in and now

566
00:29:14,484 --> 00:29:15,764
Speaker 1: it's kind of on to the next.

567
00:29:15,844 --> 00:29:18,884
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, onto the next.

568
00:29:18,924 --> 00:29:21,604
Speaker 5: But enjoying the experience, right, Like I think we've all

569
00:29:21,684 --> 00:29:23,204
Speaker 5: dreamed of that, and all of a sudden I was

570
00:29:23,284 --> 00:29:28,364
Speaker 5: living what we all dreamed. Like I want to enjoy sugary, right,

571
00:29:28,924 --> 00:29:32,724
Speaker 5: But I don't feel like, you know, you get all

572
00:29:32,724 --> 00:29:35,284
Speaker 5: these now you represent now all the women fighting, I

573
00:29:35,284 --> 00:29:37,764
Speaker 5: think this is a bit alien to me. Like I'm

574
00:29:37,804 --> 00:29:42,364
Speaker 5: super glad if someone being women men whatever can feel

575
00:29:42,404 --> 00:29:45,044
Speaker 5: inspired by what I did or feels good.

576
00:29:45,044 --> 00:29:46,444
Speaker 3: But I.

577
00:29:48,484 --> 00:29:49,644
Speaker 4: Don't dare to say.

578
00:29:49,444 --> 00:29:52,684
Speaker 5: I represent all the women that you know play poker,

579
00:29:52,724 --> 00:29:59,004
Speaker 5: and no I mean dry like I think we represent ourselves.

580
00:29:59,124 --> 00:30:01,684
Speaker 5: It's individual represents themselves. But at the same time, I

581
00:30:01,724 --> 00:30:06,084
Speaker 5: feel very honored that someone can get inspired and regarding.

582
00:30:07,604 --> 00:30:10,444
Speaker 4: Life is going to change to be hones. I feel less.

583
00:30:10,284 --> 00:30:16,604
Speaker 5: Motivated to play one to play one case. But besides that, No,

584
00:30:16,684 --> 00:30:19,804
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna start playing tryon. I'm not gonna I'm

585
00:30:19,804 --> 00:30:22,004
Speaker 5: not gonna take a year of I'm not I'm just gonna.

586
00:30:22,444 --> 00:30:24,764
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna keep grinding as I did.

587
00:30:24,844 --> 00:30:25,044
Speaker 3: You know.

588
00:30:25,164 --> 00:30:27,924
Speaker 5: I love I'm lucky that I love the game. I

589
00:30:27,964 --> 00:30:31,724
Speaker 5: love putting time into getting better. I am very well

590
00:30:31,724 --> 00:30:33,964
Speaker 5: surrunded also, and I think it's key or to be

591
00:30:34,004 --> 00:30:37,324
Speaker 5: able to talk hands and talk think poker, which is

592
00:30:37,364 --> 00:30:38,124
Speaker 5: also very lucky.

593
00:30:38,164 --> 00:30:40,244
Speaker 4: I'm not it's not gonna change much.

594
00:30:41,324 --> 00:30:45,764
Speaker 2: By the way, the day that there's a daybreak before

595
00:30:46,324 --> 00:30:49,244
Speaker 2: the final table, right, how did you spend that time?

596
00:30:49,964 --> 00:30:51,724
Speaker 2: Were you prepping, were you taking care of friends, were

597
00:30:51,724 --> 00:30:54,884
Speaker 2: you sleeping? Were you having a really nice day by

598
00:30:54,924 --> 00:30:56,004
Speaker 2: the pool or what did you do?

599
00:30:58,164 --> 00:31:01,204
Speaker 5: I tried, and I took it as another day of

600
00:31:01,284 --> 00:31:04,044
Speaker 5: the main event, but without cards.

601
00:31:04,564 --> 00:31:06,924
Speaker 4: But my approach was, this is not a day off,

602
00:31:07,164 --> 00:31:07,684
Speaker 4: this is a.

603
00:31:08,004 --> 00:31:12,164
Speaker 5: Day of of mainland, but we are just not playing

604
00:31:12,244 --> 00:31:13,044
Speaker 5: with cards.

605
00:31:13,284 --> 00:31:16,644
Speaker 4: So I stick to my routine. I slept. Can you

606
00:31:16,684 --> 00:31:18,284
Speaker 4: believe this is crazy?

607
00:31:18,284 --> 00:31:21,484
Speaker 5: Can you believe that the day I slept better was

608
00:31:22,084 --> 00:31:25,164
Speaker 5: of all vera I slept fucking nine hours was the

609
00:31:25,244 --> 00:31:26,924
Speaker 5: day before the final table?

610
00:31:27,964 --> 00:31:29,044
Speaker 1: Now I can't believe that.

611
00:31:29,084 --> 00:31:32,244
Speaker 7: I cannot believe it thither, but that's how Sid I

612
00:31:32,444 --> 00:31:34,884
Speaker 7: was and happy to be her right like it gave me,

613
00:31:34,924 --> 00:31:37,804
Speaker 7: and it gave me also so much confidence the fact

614
00:31:37,884 --> 00:31:40,764
Speaker 7: that I had slept so much, No, because it didn't

615
00:31:40,924 --> 00:31:41,804
Speaker 7: what you know.

616
00:31:41,884 --> 00:31:45,004
Speaker 5: But back to the day itself. I trained, I went

617
00:31:45,084 --> 00:31:47,884
Speaker 5: for lunch, very chill. I didn't do much social I'm

618
00:31:47,924 --> 00:31:50,244
Speaker 5: not I'm a bit introverted anyway, so I needed time

619
00:31:50,324 --> 00:31:53,044
Speaker 5: and it was a day for myself a lot, I think.

620
00:31:53,084 --> 00:31:55,924
Speaker 5: I went for lunch and then I had a meeting

621
00:31:56,524 --> 00:31:59,004
Speaker 5: with Adri and Steph for a couple of hours, and

622
00:31:59,084 --> 00:32:03,164
Speaker 5: then at eight o'clock I was having dinner by myself

623
00:32:03,884 --> 00:32:06,444
Speaker 5: and I was left at nine thirty.

624
00:32:07,404 --> 00:32:12,164
Speaker 2: So Maria and I you were actually our first desire

625
00:32:12,204 --> 00:32:14,164
Speaker 2: to have on the show this week, more than the

626
00:32:14,804 --> 00:32:17,444
Speaker 2: man who won the main event, Michael MSRAI. If he

627
00:32:17,484 --> 00:32:18,564
Speaker 2: wants to come on, we'll happy you to have him

628
00:32:18,604 --> 00:32:21,084
Speaker 2: on in a future week. What was it like to

629
00:32:21,084 --> 00:32:25,324
Speaker 2: play against him? I mean, I mean again, yeah.

630
00:32:25,164 --> 00:32:30,684
Speaker 4: You know, ah. I like his vibe.

631
00:32:30,764 --> 00:32:34,164
Speaker 5: He's so uncomfortable, he's so uncomfortable to being the table,

632
00:32:34,204 --> 00:32:36,964
Speaker 5: which is the biggest compliment, right that someone can tell you.

633
00:32:37,364 --> 00:32:40,364
Speaker 5: And I think at some points he was speaking on me.

634
00:32:40,484 --> 00:32:42,644
Speaker 5: I could see how he played, and I know he

635
00:32:43,124 --> 00:32:45,804
Speaker 5: was speaking on me to be extra aggressive because he

636
00:32:46,004 --> 00:32:50,084
Speaker 5: was putting so much bluffs then needed on Hans versus

637
00:32:50,124 --> 00:32:54,324
Speaker 5: me and instead cutting himself on bluffs against for example,

638
00:32:54,364 --> 00:32:57,564
Speaker 5: other people, which you know, like it's poker, right, and

639
00:32:57,604 --> 00:32:58,724
Speaker 5: it worked, and.

640
00:33:00,484 --> 00:33:03,044
Speaker 4: I just I don't know. Some people we didn't talk much,

641
00:33:03,124 --> 00:33:04,164
Speaker 4: but some people just the.

642
00:33:04,284 --> 00:33:09,524
Speaker 5: Vibe you like it, and I liked his vibe.

643
00:33:09,804 --> 00:33:12,084
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. By the way, for

644
00:33:12,244 --> 00:33:16,284
Speaker 1: people who don't realize that when you're talking about Adre

645
00:33:16,804 --> 00:33:19,924
Speaker 1: on your rail, that's Adrian Matteos, who is one of

646
00:33:19,964 --> 00:33:23,124
Speaker 1: the best, if not the best, tournament players in the world.

647
00:33:23,804 --> 00:33:26,404
Speaker 1: So you definitely had like one of the best minds

648
00:33:26,444 --> 00:33:29,364
Speaker 1: in poker by your side and helping you through this.

649
00:33:30,084 --> 00:33:32,324
Speaker 1: Just to add Tonate's question, did you guys talk all

650
00:33:32,404 --> 00:33:34,684
Speaker 1: about the dynamic you know with the grinder? Did you

651
00:33:34,724 --> 00:33:38,404
Speaker 1: talk about specific players and specific exploits or not?

652
00:33:38,644 --> 00:33:41,924
Speaker 5: Did you just kind of this threatenedy? You know, he

653
00:33:42,044 --> 00:33:44,204
Speaker 5: was so cool, like he was super nice. He told

654
00:33:44,244 --> 00:33:46,444
Speaker 5: me I could any doubt, I could write him any

655
00:33:46,484 --> 00:33:48,764
Speaker 5: moment of the day. It was I felt really supported

656
00:33:48,844 --> 00:33:51,364
Speaker 5: by all the team, but yeah, especially by by Adri

657
00:33:51,884 --> 00:33:55,164
Speaker 5: And we talked more about the spot, right, like being

658
00:33:55,204 --> 00:33:59,604
Speaker 5: in a spot could be so overwhelming that he so

659
00:33:59,804 --> 00:34:02,124
Speaker 5: I had confidence. So it was very good because the

660
00:34:02,164 --> 00:34:08,204
Speaker 5: things we talked it just work to validate my approach

661
00:34:08,444 --> 00:34:09,524
Speaker 5: to the day.

662
00:34:09,684 --> 00:34:12,044
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, it was It's not just

663
00:34:12,124 --> 00:34:14,644
Speaker 1: inspiring because of how far you went, but just how

664
00:34:14,684 --> 00:34:17,844
Speaker 1: you played right. It's it's good to watch that and

665
00:34:17,884 --> 00:34:21,204
Speaker 1: to see someone succeed while having a smile, while having

666
00:34:21,204 --> 00:34:23,764
Speaker 1: a good time and not being scared. Right, like you

667
00:34:23,764 --> 00:34:25,964
Speaker 1: you put it out there, like you ran big bluffs,

668
00:34:26,004 --> 00:34:30,124
Speaker 1: like you made big calls, like you you actually you

669
00:34:30,164 --> 00:34:32,644
Speaker 1: know sure, like you can think back to the ninth hand,

670
00:34:32,684 --> 00:34:35,204
Speaker 1: but like forget it like that happens happened, right, shit

671
00:34:35,324 --> 00:34:37,524
Speaker 1: happens like we all we've all been in that the.

672
00:34:38,484 --> 00:34:42,604
Speaker 5: Less word you are about making mistakes, like the less

673
00:34:42,804 --> 00:34:46,244
Speaker 5: a perfectionists you become, the more toolet and you are

674
00:34:46,284 --> 00:34:47,044
Speaker 5: with mistakes.

675
00:34:47,244 --> 00:34:49,764
Speaker 4: Paradoxically, the less mistakes you do right.

676
00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:53,204
Speaker 1: Well, do you have so you know, for everyone listening

677
00:34:53,244 --> 00:34:56,044
Speaker 1: and for for everyone who followed your journey, do you

678
00:34:56,084 --> 00:34:59,044
Speaker 1: have any kind of parting words of wisdom you've already

679
00:34:59,044 --> 00:35:01,484
Speaker 1: shared so much or anything that you want you want

680
00:35:01,524 --> 00:35:02,564
Speaker 1: to kind of things.

681
00:35:02,324 --> 00:35:04,444
Speaker 2: To promote person?

682
00:35:07,084 --> 00:35:11,164
Speaker 5: Now that's like, I really you want to say thank

683
00:35:11,204 --> 00:35:12,964
Speaker 5: you again because I've even.

684
00:35:14,364 --> 00:35:16,324
Speaker 4: Never felt so.

685
00:35:18,404 --> 00:35:23,404
Speaker 5: Supportive, so supported with so many people asking my cards,

686
00:35:23,444 --> 00:35:24,484
Speaker 5: like I felt the energy.

687
00:35:24,524 --> 00:35:28,564
Speaker 4: And also this is so much nicer shared right like.

688
00:35:30,444 --> 00:35:34,524
Speaker 5: And in the same way that you know you you

689
00:35:34,644 --> 00:35:38,764
Speaker 5: try not to take two serious comments from people you

690
00:35:38,804 --> 00:35:43,004
Speaker 5: don't know, because when it's bad, you know you wouldn't

691
00:35:43,084 --> 00:35:44,764
Speaker 5: you wouldn't accept an advice.

692
00:35:44,444 --> 00:35:45,004
Speaker 4: From these people.

693
00:35:46,124 --> 00:35:48,364
Speaker 5: So it's good to keep that this that these times

694
00:35:48,404 --> 00:35:53,004
Speaker 5: also when the feedback is good, because something I like

695
00:35:53,044 --> 00:35:56,364
Speaker 5: a lot to think in bad moments, it's applicable for now.

696
00:35:56,484 --> 00:35:59,364
Speaker 4: No like these two show pass right like, now you

697
00:35:59,404 --> 00:36:03,404
Speaker 4: are a super hero. Now everything is good bad. You know,

698
00:36:03,524 --> 00:36:05,204
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I'm.

699
00:36:05,004 --> 00:36:08,284
Speaker 5: So much more than just a playing, which I think

700
00:36:08,284 --> 00:36:10,644
Speaker 5: at the same time is good because I don't create

701
00:36:10,724 --> 00:36:13,204
Speaker 5: my identity from playing. And I think this is a

702
00:36:13,244 --> 00:36:16,764
Speaker 5: good advice for in general, but for players, for for

703
00:36:16,884 --> 00:36:19,764
Speaker 5: people that play for fun, for people that play. I mean,

704
00:36:20,604 --> 00:36:23,404
Speaker 5: I don't like to give advice because it's a bit

705
00:36:23,564 --> 00:36:26,564
Speaker 5: like oh and so listened advice, But since you asked,

706
00:36:27,044 --> 00:36:30,484
Speaker 5: I think to to not link your identity with with

707
00:36:30,524 --> 00:36:36,364
Speaker 5: your game is quite healthy mentally because you know, things

708
00:36:36,404 --> 00:36:39,524
Speaker 5: go well, things go bad, you go through with you

709
00:36:40,004 --> 00:36:45,004
Speaker 5: have super incredible differends and you are still you right

710
00:36:45,084 --> 00:36:47,764
Speaker 5: and shouldn't be your results that validate you.

711
00:36:49,244 --> 00:36:52,244
Speaker 1: That is a really wonderful message I think to to

712
00:36:52,524 --> 00:36:56,284
Speaker 1: to remember to internalize, uh to to end on. And

713
00:36:56,364 --> 00:36:58,684
Speaker 1: also like, I think it's one of the reasons why

714
00:36:58,724 --> 00:37:02,244
Speaker 1: you ended up doing so well this year. So for I,

715
00:37:02,844 --> 00:37:05,844
Speaker 1: Nate and I do not see you as being defined

716
00:37:05,844 --> 00:37:10,204
Speaker 1: by your results. That said, congratulations on an incredible result.

717
00:37:11,244 --> 00:37:14,524
Speaker 1: It's really it's really wonderful. It was a pleasure watching you,

718
00:37:14,684 --> 00:37:17,244
Speaker 1: rooting for you, and we're so glad that we had

719
00:37:17,284 --> 00:37:18,164
Speaker 1: the chance to have you on that.

720
00:37:18,404 --> 00:37:21,924
Speaker 5: I had asked for time also in this tat and yeah,

721
00:37:22,324 --> 00:37:24,924
Speaker 5: I hope to see you live running together the main

722
00:37:25,004 --> 00:37:26,004
Speaker 5: um in Barcelona.

723
00:37:26,084 --> 00:37:31,604
Speaker 1: Let's do it. So that was our conversation with Leo Marchettes.

724
00:37:31,884 --> 00:37:33,924
Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break now and then we'll

725
00:37:33,924 --> 00:37:46,364
Speaker 1: hear from Eric's sidell So today on the show, we've

726
00:37:46,404 --> 00:37:50,004
Speaker 1: got a very special guest with us, a poker legend,

727
00:37:50,564 --> 00:37:54,804
Speaker 1: Poker Hall of Famer, ten time World Series of Poker

728
00:37:54,884 --> 00:37:58,364
Speaker 1: Bracelet winner. As of now we are recording this in

729
00:37:58,524 --> 00:38:04,204
Speaker 1: May World Poker Tour title holder, EPT title holder, you know,

730
00:38:04,404 --> 00:38:07,524
Speaker 1: Triple Crown winner, basically every title that exists. He has

731
00:38:07,644 --> 00:38:11,484
Speaker 1: high roller extraordinaire. Welcome to the show, Eric's idel.

732
00:38:12,604 --> 00:38:14,004
Speaker 3: That's a very generous intro.

733
00:38:15,284 --> 00:38:17,884
Speaker 1: Well, and of course Eric's greatest claim to fame is

734
00:38:17,924 --> 00:38:21,124
Speaker 1: teaching me how to play poker. It is, so Eric,

735
00:38:21,244 --> 00:38:23,924
Speaker 1: let's you know, we're gonna talk a lot of poker

736
00:38:24,004 --> 00:38:26,244
Speaker 1: and risk and all of that. But why don't we

737
00:38:26,764 --> 00:38:30,564
Speaker 1: start off by just kind of going back to the

738
00:38:30,604 --> 00:38:35,484
Speaker 1: beginning to you know, little Eric growing up, how did

739
00:38:35,484 --> 00:38:38,884
Speaker 1: your interest in games and in poker even originate? How

740
00:38:38,924 --> 00:38:41,084
Speaker 1: did you even get introduced to that world. Were you

741
00:38:41,164 --> 00:38:44,324
Speaker 1: someone who was curious about it from a young age?

742
00:38:44,364 --> 00:38:45,524
Speaker 1: Is it something that came later.

743
00:38:46,044 --> 00:38:48,884
Speaker 3: I started playing back emmon when I was in high school,

744
00:38:49,724 --> 00:38:52,564
Speaker 3: and then that led me to a place called the

745
00:38:52,604 --> 00:38:56,164
Speaker 3: Game Room, which was on the Upper West Side, and

746
00:38:56,204 --> 00:39:01,244
Speaker 3: then ended up going to the Mayfair, which was a

747
00:39:01,324 --> 00:39:03,604
Speaker 3: well known back Ammon and bridge club in those days,

748
00:39:04,484 --> 00:39:07,524
Speaker 3: and played back em in there for years, and a

749
00:39:07,644 --> 00:39:11,724
Speaker 3: poker gamy ended up developing in the Mayfair. At the time.

750
00:39:12,044 --> 00:39:14,724
Speaker 3: They didn't allow any pros in, which is very helpful

751
00:39:14,764 --> 00:39:19,804
Speaker 3: to me because I was terrible, so I got to

752
00:39:19,804 --> 00:39:23,844
Speaker 3: play with other people who are also terrible, and I

753
00:39:23,884 --> 00:39:29,404
Speaker 3: would say it just slowly started to take over the Mayfair,

754
00:39:29,484 --> 00:39:31,804
Speaker 3: and I mean eventually the Mayfair ended up being a

755
00:39:31,804 --> 00:39:32,524
Speaker 3: poker club.

756
00:39:32,884 --> 00:39:36,684
Speaker 1: Eric, So you kind of sort of played games professionally

757
00:39:36,684 --> 00:39:38,804
Speaker 1: in the sense that you know, paid the bills. But

758
00:39:38,844 --> 00:39:40,484
Speaker 1: then you had a little detour and you went to

759
00:39:40,524 --> 00:39:43,884
Speaker 1: Wall Street, which is a gambling of a much gambler

760
00:39:43,964 --> 00:39:48,844
Speaker 1: nature than poker. I would say, talk a little bit

761
00:39:48,884 --> 00:39:51,084
Speaker 1: about kind of how your background in games prepared you

762
00:39:51,124 --> 00:39:53,644
Speaker 1: for that and how you you know, how you ended

763
00:39:53,724 --> 00:39:58,324
Speaker 1: up then transitioning back and playing poker full time, leaving

764
00:39:58,324 --> 00:40:02,324
Speaker 1: Wall Street for a career that you know, many people

765
00:40:02,364 --> 00:40:03,444
Speaker 1: would say, what are you doing?

766
00:40:05,004 --> 00:40:07,084
Speaker 3: I do think it was a natural transition to go

767
00:40:07,164 --> 00:40:10,564
Speaker 3: from playing games to Wall Street. And you see a

768
00:40:10,604 --> 00:40:13,404
Speaker 3: lot of poker players now going out to Wall Street.

769
00:40:14,124 --> 00:40:16,804
Speaker 3: But while I was working on Wall Street, I was

770
00:40:16,844 --> 00:40:22,084
Speaker 3: also flying out to play cash games in Vegas. I

771
00:40:22,124 --> 00:40:24,284
Speaker 3: didn't I didn't like being on Wall Street. I didn't

772
00:40:24,364 --> 00:40:27,444
Speaker 3: like having to wear a tie, and there's there's a

773
00:40:27,484 --> 00:40:31,044
Speaker 3: competitive and a pettiness there. And I didn't like trading

774
00:40:31,084 --> 00:40:33,484
Speaker 3: on the floor where people are fighting for ones and

775
00:40:33,564 --> 00:40:37,564
Speaker 3: twos and it was it's kind of an ugly environment

776
00:40:37,684 --> 00:40:39,924
Speaker 3: and I really didn't like being part of it. I

777
00:40:40,044 --> 00:40:46,524
Speaker 3: just felt like to be rewarded trading options on the floor,

778
00:40:46,964 --> 00:40:48,924
Speaker 3: you really need to be a dick, you know, and

779
00:40:49,124 --> 00:40:52,324
Speaker 3: and try and screw people over it. And that was

780
00:40:52,564 --> 00:40:55,284
Speaker 3: basically that was what was being done to me. And

781
00:40:55,404 --> 00:40:56,884
Speaker 3: it wasn't It didn't feel good.

782
00:40:57,364 --> 00:41:02,724
Speaker 2: Our listeners might think, uh, boy, isn't poker kind of

783
00:41:02,764 --> 00:41:07,924
Speaker 2: cut through? But there's like a kind of camaraderie among players.

784
00:41:07,524 --> 00:41:08,084
Speaker 3: Most of the time.

785
00:41:08,124 --> 00:41:09,804
Speaker 2: And Rick, you played in like some of the biggest,

786
00:41:09,844 --> 00:41:12,804
Speaker 2: most famous games of all time. I mean, has that

787
00:41:13,084 --> 00:41:16,364
Speaker 2: camaraderie lessened over the years as you kind of had

788
00:41:16,404 --> 00:41:20,964
Speaker 2: more tourists and professionals, or I mean, what's what was

789
00:41:20,964 --> 00:41:24,964
Speaker 2: this scene like when you're kind of young, young, skinny kid,

790
00:41:25,124 --> 00:41:27,684
Speaker 2: I guess, and trying to get your feet wet in

791
00:41:27,804 --> 00:41:30,084
Speaker 2: Vegas which you don't yet know that Well.

792
00:41:30,924 --> 00:41:34,124
Speaker 3: It was fine because I knew enough people. And the

793
00:41:34,204 --> 00:41:37,884
Speaker 3: nice thing about poker is you can. I mean, now

794
00:41:37,924 --> 00:41:40,244
Speaker 3: it's changed a little bit where there are more private

795
00:41:40,284 --> 00:41:43,804
Speaker 3: games in Vegas, but in those days, all the games

796
00:41:43,844 --> 00:41:47,204
Speaker 3: were open and that was kind of part of the

797
00:41:47,284 --> 00:41:50,084
Speaker 3: laws that you got to play if if you wanted to.

798
00:41:50,804 --> 00:41:53,884
Speaker 3: It was it was competitive, but it was it was

799
00:41:53,924 --> 00:41:58,604
Speaker 3: never unfriendly. I mean, it can be exhausting, but it's

800
00:41:58,644 --> 00:42:02,004
Speaker 3: also I also really enjoy the environment. I like rooting

801
00:42:02,044 --> 00:42:04,204
Speaker 3: for friends and things like that in.

802
00:42:04,204 --> 00:42:08,684
Speaker 1: Terms of thinking about decision making and risk taking in

803
00:42:08,844 --> 00:42:12,244
Speaker 1: really high stake situations and under bright lights, right when

804
00:42:12,604 --> 00:42:16,364
Speaker 1: people are looking and people are watching how you're playing.

805
00:42:16,444 --> 00:42:18,644
Speaker 1: Because these days, I know in the past this wasn't

806
00:42:18,684 --> 00:42:21,004
Speaker 1: the case, but these days they're all streamed, right, so

807
00:42:21,044 --> 00:42:24,564
Speaker 1: people know exactly how you're making decisions. How do you

808
00:42:24,924 --> 00:42:27,884
Speaker 1: deal with that? Right, how do you keep executing at

809
00:42:27,884 --> 00:42:30,884
Speaker 1: a high level after you've been playing for multiple days,

810
00:42:30,924 --> 00:42:34,244
Speaker 1: You're tired, everyone's watching, and the stakes are so high

811
00:42:34,284 --> 00:42:37,764
Speaker 1: because the payouts keep going and going up and the

812
00:42:37,804 --> 00:42:40,284
Speaker 1: pay jumps are huge. And I feel like this is

813
00:42:40,324 --> 00:42:42,124
Speaker 1: one of the things that might might be the most

814
00:42:42,164 --> 00:42:46,204
Speaker 1: applicable to real life, because I think people always want

815
00:42:46,244 --> 00:42:48,524
Speaker 1: to know, you know, how do I make good risk

816
00:42:48,644 --> 00:42:51,524
Speaker 1: decisions when the stakes are the highest.

817
00:42:51,324 --> 00:42:53,204
Speaker 3: If you're playing a tournament. One of the nice things

818
00:42:53,244 --> 00:42:56,644
Speaker 3: about a tournament is that the further you go along,

819
00:42:57,524 --> 00:43:02,364
Speaker 3: the more that's at stake. And I think that's helpful

820
00:43:02,444 --> 00:43:09,364
Speaker 3: because now you're really rewarded for paying attention and bringing

821
00:43:09,564 --> 00:43:13,844
Speaker 3: of this. And so I mean, I do think sometimes

822
00:43:13,844 --> 00:43:15,884
Speaker 3: I have to remind myself to get back to just

823
00:43:16,724 --> 00:43:20,604
Speaker 3: being present and being in being, you know, watching the

824
00:43:20,684 --> 00:43:25,644
Speaker 3: action stuff like that, But it does. It is easier

825
00:43:26,044 --> 00:43:28,484
Speaker 3: as you get closer to a final table or you

826
00:43:28,524 --> 00:43:31,484
Speaker 3: get closer to a win, because there's just more at stake,

827
00:43:31,564 --> 00:43:33,844
Speaker 3: and it's just it becomes more interesting.

828
00:43:34,924 --> 00:43:38,244
Speaker 1: That's really interesting, Nate. Do you find that as well,

829
00:43:38,844 --> 00:43:41,884
Speaker 1: just in poker and in life, because there I think

830
00:43:42,084 --> 00:43:44,724
Speaker 1: it's true of me and in a certain respect that

831
00:43:44,964 --> 00:43:49,124
Speaker 1: as kind of as the pressure builds, you actually perform better. Right,

832
00:43:49,164 --> 00:43:51,444
Speaker 1: Because there are different people. There are people who kind

833
00:43:51,444 --> 00:43:53,564
Speaker 1: of can't perform under pressure, and then there are people

834
00:43:53,604 --> 00:43:56,044
Speaker 1: who do their best at kind of high stakes moments.

835
00:43:56,084 --> 00:43:58,564
Speaker 1: And it seems like Eric is the high stakes performer.

836
00:43:58,804 --> 00:44:00,684
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that I am too. How do

837
00:44:00,724 --> 00:44:01,364
Speaker 1: you see it, Nate?

838
00:44:02,564 --> 00:44:05,244
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you've made more deep runs in

839
00:44:05,244 --> 00:44:06,724
Speaker 2: the past couple of years than I have, Maria. You know,

840
00:44:06,804 --> 00:44:11,524
Speaker 2: like I have felt increasingly comfortable when the pressure does now,

841
00:44:11,644 --> 00:44:15,804
Speaker 2: especially its like weaker fields, right where like, Okay, if

842
00:44:15,844 --> 00:44:19,844
Speaker 2: I've made day threes a couple dozen times in my

843
00:44:19,884 --> 00:44:23,044
Speaker 2: life and this is their second time, then I'm inexperienced

844
00:44:23,084 --> 00:44:26,204
Speaker 2: relative to a lot of people. But you've been through

845
00:44:26,244 --> 00:44:28,084
Speaker 2: that a little bit before. It also helps. I think

846
00:44:28,404 --> 00:44:30,564
Speaker 2: I like when events are on TV because even though

847
00:44:30,564 --> 00:44:32,324
Speaker 2: it adds some annoyances like what am I wearing?

848
00:44:32,324 --> 00:44:32,924
Speaker 3: How do I look?

849
00:44:33,204 --> 00:44:38,124
Speaker 2: I think it puts more pressure on other people by comparison. Yeah,

850
00:44:38,164 --> 00:44:41,124
Speaker 2: because I'm not sure if people do better under pressure

851
00:44:41,924 --> 00:44:44,884
Speaker 2: or that they do less bad than they choke less

852
00:44:44,924 --> 00:44:49,324
Speaker 2: than others. Right, But yeah, look, I mean, Eric, how

853
00:44:49,684 --> 00:44:54,684
Speaker 2: do you stay sharp? Right, Because let's say you're having

854
00:44:54,724 --> 00:44:57,924
Speaker 2: a mediocre World Series and then finally after six weeks, right,

855
00:44:58,924 --> 00:45:01,404
Speaker 2: you just barrel through a tournament, a big event, right,

856
00:45:01,964 --> 00:45:05,244
Speaker 2: you're the chip leader. It's on to day four or something.

857
00:45:06,124 --> 00:45:08,124
Speaker 2: I mean, what's your routine like during the series to

858
00:45:09,644 --> 00:45:12,404
Speaker 2: to pace yourself or stay sharp or early above.

859
00:45:13,804 --> 00:45:16,924
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, but the World Series, it's really just

860
00:45:17,444 --> 00:45:20,604
Speaker 3: you're playing, you're eating, you're going to sleep. So it

861
00:45:20,844 --> 00:45:24,924
Speaker 3: just there's no I mean, there aren't really. You just

862
00:45:25,004 --> 00:45:28,124
Speaker 3: have to avoid distractions. It's funny because every year it

863
00:45:28,164 --> 00:45:30,524
Speaker 3: comes around and you think, like, oh, good, so and

864
00:45:30,604 --> 00:45:32,764
Speaker 3: Sound is going to be in town. Hopefully I'll get

865
00:45:32,764 --> 00:45:36,084
Speaker 3: to have dinner with them or whatever. And it's just

866
00:45:36,164 --> 00:45:39,604
Speaker 3: it's always a mistake to think that way because it's

867
00:45:39,644 --> 00:45:43,124
Speaker 3: such an all immersive thing that you are. If you're

868
00:45:43,164 --> 00:45:47,364
Speaker 3: not playing, you're in recovery and just you know, every

869
00:45:47,444 --> 00:45:49,764
Speaker 3: date it goes like that for you know, for the

870
00:45:49,804 --> 00:45:53,324
Speaker 3: whole world's here, it's six or seven weeks. Mario's smart

871
00:45:53,324 --> 00:45:55,884
Speaker 3: because she takes a few days off and she'll you know,

872
00:45:55,964 --> 00:45:59,844
Speaker 3: she'll go take a little mini vacation. I think that

873
00:45:59,924 --> 00:46:00,564
Speaker 3: really helps.

874
00:46:00,644 --> 00:46:04,484
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I do always do that before the

875
00:46:04,524 --> 00:46:07,284
Speaker 1: main event, because it really helps clear my mind and

876
00:46:07,404 --> 00:46:09,964
Speaker 1: kind of get me out of any funk that I

877
00:46:10,044 --> 00:46:13,124
Speaker 1: might be in. I find that that's very useful. And Eric,

878
00:46:13,204 --> 00:46:15,084
Speaker 1: one of the things that I love, not just about

879
00:46:15,124 --> 00:46:17,684
Speaker 1: the World Series, but just about your approach to poker

880
00:46:17,684 --> 00:46:20,164
Speaker 1: in general, is that you're one of the only players

881
00:46:20,204 --> 00:46:23,164
Speaker 1: I've met who is okay to end up missing an

882
00:46:23,204 --> 00:46:25,964
Speaker 1: event that you had planned on playing, right, that you

883
00:46:26,124 --> 00:46:30,484
Speaker 1: actually like in some ways. Obviously you're incredibly competitive, but

884
00:46:30,604 --> 00:46:33,604
Speaker 1: in some ways you don't have ego in the moments

885
00:46:33,644 --> 00:46:36,244
Speaker 1: where it matters, and you're okay to say, you know what,

886
00:46:36,324 --> 00:46:38,684
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling up for it, or this field looks terrible,

887
00:46:38,964 --> 00:46:41,124
Speaker 1: and even though I planned on playing this, you know,

888
00:46:41,164 --> 00:46:44,124
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars buy it or whatever it is,

889
00:46:44,164 --> 00:46:47,484
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. And most players they'd

890
00:46:47,484 --> 00:46:50,204
Speaker 1: feel their ego bruise, right, They're like, no, I can compete,

891
00:46:50,284 --> 00:46:52,924
Speaker 1: you know in this, I'm going to play how you know?

892
00:46:52,964 --> 00:46:55,364
Speaker 1: How are how are you thinking about those moments? Because

893
00:46:56,004 --> 00:46:58,244
Speaker 1: you know it's that takes a lot of self knowledge

894
00:46:58,284 --> 00:46:59,364
Speaker 1: and discipline to do that.

895
00:47:00,644 --> 00:47:03,204
Speaker 3: Well. Yeah, I also have a no suffering rule. Stuff.

896
00:47:03,244 --> 00:47:05,924
Speaker 3: I wake up and I'm just you know, and I'm tired.

897
00:47:07,044 --> 00:47:12,084
Speaker 3: I just won't play if I'm dragged. It just it.

898
00:47:12,804 --> 00:47:15,724
Speaker 3: I don't want to be unhappy at the table, and

899
00:47:16,004 --> 00:47:18,924
Speaker 3: especially at an event like the World Series, where there

900
00:47:18,924 --> 00:47:22,044
Speaker 3: are just so many events every day, you have to

901
00:47:22,044 --> 00:47:25,084
Speaker 3: be very conscious of what kind of energy you can bring.

902
00:47:26,124 --> 00:47:28,524
Speaker 1: No suffering rule, that's amazing. I think we should all

903
00:47:28,564 --> 00:47:32,404
Speaker 1: implement that. If you wake up and you feel like

904
00:47:32,484 --> 00:47:34,244
Speaker 1: this is going to be suffering, you just say.

905
00:47:34,084 --> 00:47:38,684
Speaker 3: No, yeah, exactly are you trying to bracelet match? Are

906
00:47:38,684 --> 00:47:43,084
Speaker 3: you trying to compete with No? I mean, I'm not

907
00:47:43,724 --> 00:47:46,484
Speaker 3: one of those guys. I don't play that as many

908
00:47:46,564 --> 00:47:50,084
Speaker 3: tournaments as the guys who are bracelet hunting. I feel

909
00:47:50,084 --> 00:47:53,244
Speaker 3: like I have enough bracelets and I don't really have

910
00:47:53,324 --> 00:47:59,004
Speaker 3: to chase them anymore. And it's also like it's one

911
00:47:59,044 --> 00:48:01,084
Speaker 3: of these things where if you win one, it's some

912
00:48:01,204 --> 00:48:03,924
Speaker 3: kind of mini miracle. I just don't like to think

913
00:48:03,964 --> 00:48:06,804
Speaker 3: that way. I just want to play, Like, for instance,

914
00:48:06,844 --> 00:48:10,524
Speaker 3: this summer, there's some cool tournaments at the WIN and

915
00:48:10,604 --> 00:48:13,924
Speaker 3: I'll be playing those, you know, which are not bracelet events,

916
00:48:14,924 --> 00:48:16,964
Speaker 3: but just you know, it's nice to play at the

917
00:48:17,004 --> 00:48:18,484
Speaker 3: WIN and they run good tournaments.

918
00:48:18,524 --> 00:48:20,884
Speaker 1: So nay, ten bracelets. Do we think that's enough? I

919
00:48:21,284 --> 00:48:22,124
Speaker 1: think I think we.

920
00:48:22,044 --> 00:48:22,564
Speaker 5: Need to know.

921
00:48:22,724 --> 00:48:24,484
Speaker 2: I think thirteen bakers doesn't.

922
00:48:24,564 --> 00:48:25,684
Speaker 3: Let's not be let's sucking.

923
00:48:25,844 --> 00:48:29,604
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, Eric, was there a moment when

924
00:48:29,604 --> 00:48:33,804
Speaker 2: you're like poker has changed? When were there like inflection

925
00:48:33,844 --> 00:48:34,804
Speaker 2: points that you remember?

926
00:48:35,004 --> 00:48:35,204
Speaker 1: Well?

927
00:48:35,444 --> 00:48:38,084
Speaker 3: At the main one really is computers coming into the game,

928
00:48:38,564 --> 00:48:42,564
Speaker 3: and that's really changed things over the last I don't know,

929
00:48:42,924 --> 00:48:46,004
Speaker 3: eight years. I'm not sure how long it's been, but

930
00:48:46,684 --> 00:48:49,204
Speaker 3: it's really it just it has changed everything. I have

931
00:48:49,244 --> 00:48:53,524
Speaker 3: a friend who jokes with me that I've been saying

932
00:48:53,564 --> 00:48:55,644
Speaker 3: for about thirty years that the game is too tough

933
00:48:55,684 --> 00:49:00,644
Speaker 3: and I need and I need to stop playing. But really,

934
00:49:00,724 --> 00:49:05,844
Speaker 3: more recently, the computers have made it a much greater challenge,

935
00:49:06,524 --> 00:49:09,604
Speaker 3: but it's still you know, it's made it's made it

936
00:49:09,644 --> 00:49:13,244
Speaker 3: more difficult for me to play, but it's also made

937
00:49:13,244 --> 00:49:17,364
Speaker 3: it more interesting and uh, and it is. It's fun

938
00:49:17,444 --> 00:49:20,324
Speaker 3: to play against these computer guys and to and also

939
00:49:20,404 --> 00:49:23,884
Speaker 3: to see how much the game has it evolved. So

940
00:49:24,324 --> 00:49:28,484
Speaker 3: I enjoy being part of that and trying to figure

941
00:49:28,524 --> 00:49:32,284
Speaker 3: things out in this more modern computerized the world.

942
00:49:32,564 --> 00:49:34,964
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean you're you're still succeeding. Right at

943
00:49:34,964 --> 00:49:37,964
Speaker 1: EPT Monte Carlo, you came in third in one of

944
00:49:38,004 --> 00:49:41,564
Speaker 1: the high rollers. You've won several of your bracelets in

945
00:49:41,724 --> 00:49:45,404
Speaker 1: the last few years, so clearly you're you're still able

946
00:49:45,444 --> 00:49:48,004
Speaker 1: to compete at a high level. Do you you know,

947
00:49:48,084 --> 00:49:50,404
Speaker 1: how do you prepare not just for the World Series

948
00:49:50,444 --> 00:49:53,444
Speaker 1: but for series in general. Do you work with solvers

949
00:49:53,524 --> 00:49:56,124
Speaker 1: kind of what does your what does your study routine

950
00:49:56,124 --> 00:50:00,644
Speaker 1: look like? And has it changed significantly over the years.

951
00:50:01,284 --> 00:50:04,164
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely changed a lot. I mean, it used

952
00:50:04,164 --> 00:50:06,964
Speaker 3: to be you didn't really have to do anything. You

953
00:50:07,084 --> 00:50:10,524
Speaker 3: just showed up and played, you know, which was really nice.

954
00:50:10,644 --> 00:50:13,924
Speaker 3: It just it was a different time and there were

955
00:50:13,924 --> 00:50:16,644
Speaker 3: some bugs, but the bucks really weren't that relevant to play.

956
00:50:16,804 --> 00:50:19,444
Speaker 3: It was nice back then you could just you could

957
00:50:19,484 --> 00:50:23,324
Speaker 3: just show up and play. And now, yeah, you have

958
00:50:23,404 --> 00:50:28,044
Speaker 3: to study. You have to study solvers and study openings.

959
00:50:28,204 --> 00:50:31,444
Speaker 3: It's you know, I think that there are people now

960
00:50:31,524 --> 00:50:34,964
Speaker 3: who are completely immersed in it or studying and playing

961
00:50:35,044 --> 00:50:39,004
Speaker 3: and that's kind of all they do. It creates, you know,

962
00:50:39,124 --> 00:50:41,804
Speaker 3: an extra challenge to go up against people like that,

963
00:50:43,244 --> 00:50:46,044
Speaker 3: but it's also you know, it's interesting and exciting and

964
00:50:46,364 --> 00:50:49,164
Speaker 3: it's you know, it's fun. I feel like I'm as

965
00:50:49,284 --> 00:50:51,604
Speaker 3: much a fan as I am a player, and you know,

966
00:50:51,764 --> 00:50:53,604
Speaker 3: sit down at the table and I'll be like, Wow,

967
00:50:53,644 --> 00:50:55,884
Speaker 3: these guys are just so good. This is really fun.

968
00:50:56,484 --> 00:50:58,444
Speaker 3: You know, that's great.

969
00:50:58,484 --> 00:51:00,164
Speaker 1: And I think that's probably one of the reasons why

970
00:51:00,204 --> 00:51:04,204
Speaker 1: you're still so good, right is because you are. It's

971
00:51:04,244 --> 00:51:07,084
Speaker 1: the ego thing again. You're you're learning from from others

972
00:51:07,164 --> 00:51:09,764
Speaker 1: and you're kind of incorporating it into your game. I

973
00:51:09,804 --> 00:51:14,524
Speaker 1: remember one hand, so a few years ago, I think

974
00:51:14,524 --> 00:51:17,964
Speaker 1: it was Poker Go released some of the archives from

975
00:51:18,044 --> 00:51:22,924
Speaker 1: like the earliest earliest World Series events, and they had

976
00:51:23,404 --> 00:51:26,764
Speaker 1: some footage from nineteen eighty eight, so the famous World

977
00:51:26,844 --> 00:51:31,484
Speaker 1: Series where you came in second to Johnny Chan and

978
00:51:31,564 --> 00:51:36,444
Speaker 1: they they had footage of just at the final table

979
00:51:36,524 --> 00:51:39,884
Speaker 1: before you guys were heads up, and I still remember

980
00:51:40,204 --> 00:51:45,644
Speaker 1: you just going bananas with a small pocket pair right

981
00:51:45,684 --> 00:51:48,244
Speaker 1: there was like a raise and a call and you

982
00:51:48,284 --> 00:51:50,684
Speaker 1: had I think it was pocket four's and you just

983
00:51:50,764 --> 00:51:53,764
Speaker 1: like gripped it. So talk about first of all, fearlessness

984
00:51:53,764 --> 00:51:56,844
Speaker 1: and secondly, no one was doing that right like these days,

985
00:51:57,204 --> 00:51:59,924
Speaker 1: you know that these make actually really good bluffs, But

986
00:51:59,964 --> 00:52:02,324
Speaker 1: if you were looking at people's game back then that

987
00:52:02,484 --> 00:52:05,564
Speaker 1: was just absolutely not done. Obviously, you were young, and

988
00:52:06,084 --> 00:52:08,564
Speaker 1: you would say young and stupid. I'd say, you know, young,

989
00:52:08,724 --> 00:52:12,844
Speaker 1: young and fear. But those plays like where did that

990
00:52:12,924 --> 00:52:16,924
Speaker 1: come from? Was that just intuition patterns? Like what were

991
00:52:17,124 --> 00:52:19,484
Speaker 1: do you? Do you remember how you thought of doing

992
00:52:19,564 --> 00:52:21,684
Speaker 1: things that nobody had done before.

993
00:52:22,644 --> 00:52:24,804
Speaker 3: I do remember I was very focused on reads and

994
00:52:24,844 --> 00:52:28,884
Speaker 3: things like that, and I was I was pretty reckless,

995
00:52:29,004 --> 00:52:32,244
Speaker 3: I think, you know, especially you know, if you talk

996
00:52:32,284 --> 00:52:34,964
Speaker 3: about nineteen eighty eight, I didn't really know what I

997
00:52:35,004 --> 00:52:38,204
Speaker 3: was doing and I was really but I do remember

998
00:52:38,324 --> 00:52:41,484
Speaker 3: feeling like, this is really fun because you get reads

999
00:52:41,484 --> 00:52:45,604
Speaker 3: from some of these players that I wasn't getting in

1000
00:52:45,964 --> 00:52:48,444
Speaker 3: the game back in New York, and it was like

1001
00:52:48,524 --> 00:52:51,084
Speaker 3: it was very exciting for me to think, Wow, I

1002
00:52:51,124 --> 00:52:53,924
Speaker 3: can play with these people and I didn't. I didn't

1003
00:52:53,924 --> 00:52:58,404
Speaker 3: have any any experience outside of New York. And it was.

1004
00:52:59,964 --> 00:53:03,604
Speaker 2: Were the reads fact in obvious or just that you

1005
00:53:03,644 --> 00:53:06,284
Speaker 2: have a knack for picking that up, or more experience

1006
00:53:06,724 --> 00:53:09,284
Speaker 2: or people better about avoiding tells now?

1007
00:53:09,844 --> 00:53:12,164
Speaker 3: I think they were more obvious back then, and I

1008
00:53:12,204 --> 00:53:18,364
Speaker 3: think people were less concerned about timing and patterns and

1009
00:53:18,404 --> 00:53:22,004
Speaker 3: things like that. So you know, it was just you know,

1010
00:53:22,044 --> 00:53:23,844
Speaker 3: everybody was kind of playing by the seat of their

1011
00:53:23,884 --> 00:53:28,084
Speaker 3: pants back then, so there really were a lot of opportunities.

1012
00:53:28,324 --> 00:53:31,804
Speaker 3: And also, you know, I just when you don't know

1013
00:53:31,844 --> 00:53:35,844
Speaker 3: what you're doing, you can really push things pretty far.

1014
00:53:38,004 --> 00:53:38,684
Speaker 3: Let's say it's the.

1015
00:53:38,604 --> 00:53:40,364
Speaker 2: First day of the main event. I assume you like

1016
00:53:40,404 --> 00:53:42,004
Speaker 2: the main Event, Eric, You're not one of these.

1017
00:53:42,644 --> 00:53:45,444
Speaker 3: I love the main Event. I hope I can play

1018
00:53:45,484 --> 00:53:47,884
Speaker 3: it every single year. I really get a kick out

1019
00:53:47,924 --> 00:53:49,844
Speaker 3: of it. It's day one.

1020
00:53:50,084 --> 00:53:53,124
Speaker 2: Maybe you're you, you have some media trailing you, but

1021
00:53:53,124 --> 00:53:56,604
Speaker 2: everyone assume everyone knows who you are at the table, right,

1022
00:53:57,124 --> 00:54:01,404
Speaker 2: how are you adjusting to that, right to being a

1023
00:54:01,444 --> 00:54:04,484
Speaker 2: known person where there might be some inhimidation factor. There

1024
00:54:04,484 --> 00:54:08,164
Speaker 2: are thousands of hours of you playing poker on tape, right,

1025
00:54:08,204 --> 00:54:10,604
Speaker 2: how do you adjust to, say, like a rank amateur

1026
00:54:10,604 --> 00:54:13,244
Speaker 2: playing against you versus like a nervous kid who looks

1027
00:54:13,284 --> 00:54:15,644
Speaker 2: up to you, versus like another another pro.

1028
00:54:15,884 --> 00:54:19,204
Speaker 3: I'm trying to play against each person individually, but I

1029
00:54:19,284 --> 00:54:24,484
Speaker 3: don't really feel like any kind of reputation or anything

1030
00:54:24,564 --> 00:54:26,404
Speaker 3: like that is going to is going to be helpful.

1031
00:54:27,124 --> 00:54:30,404
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't feel like there are those types

1032
00:54:30,444 --> 00:54:33,164
Speaker 3: of exploits where people will be more reluctant to play

1033
00:54:33,444 --> 00:54:37,004
Speaker 3: a hand with me because because they proceed me to

1034
00:54:37,004 --> 00:54:40,004
Speaker 3: be a good player or well known or whatever. I think,

1035
00:54:40,404 --> 00:54:42,844
Speaker 3: if anything, they might be more likely to play a

1036
00:54:42,964 --> 00:54:46,404
Speaker 3: hand because it's kind of fun for them, you know,

1037
00:54:46,524 --> 00:54:48,844
Speaker 3: to have a story to tell the people back home,

1038
00:54:49,564 --> 00:54:52,684
Speaker 3: So they might be a little bit more likely to

1039
00:54:52,724 --> 00:54:55,124
Speaker 3: try and bluff me that kind of thing. But I

1040
00:54:55,244 --> 00:54:58,044
Speaker 3: try and play it, you know, as straight as possible.

1041
00:54:58,564 --> 00:55:02,284
Speaker 1: So in some ways you've become Johnny Chan in rounders,

1042
00:55:02,324 --> 00:55:05,404
Speaker 1: where Matt Damon just wants to bluff you just to

1043
00:55:05,444 --> 00:55:08,444
Speaker 1: be able to say that he bluffed Johnny Cham.

1044
00:55:09,084 --> 00:55:11,484
Speaker 3: I think that exists. I really do think that exists.

1045
00:55:11,484 --> 00:55:14,404
Speaker 3: I remember being at a table with a world champion,

1046
00:55:15,164 --> 00:55:18,724
Speaker 3: uh in a in a big tournament, and he the

1047
00:55:18,884 --> 00:55:22,364
Speaker 3: guy raised him and he moved all in and he

1048
00:55:22,444 --> 00:55:24,724
Speaker 3: said to the guy, don't you want to, you know,

1049
00:55:25,404 --> 00:55:29,044
Speaker 3: play against the world champion. You know. The guy ended

1050
00:55:29,124 --> 00:55:34,724
Speaker 3: up calling and it was just it was so ridiculous.

1051
00:55:34,724 --> 00:55:36,964
Speaker 3: But I do think that goes through some people's minds,

1052
00:55:36,964 --> 00:55:40,284
Speaker 3: is so I think it does. It probably raises it

1053
00:55:40,964 --> 00:55:44,924
Speaker 3: raises the risk that somebody's gonna try and bluff you, uh,

1054
00:55:44,964 --> 00:55:48,684
Speaker 3: And I think that if it's televised, it's even more dramatic.

1055
00:55:48,764 --> 00:55:52,364
Speaker 3: I think people people don't want to be seen as

1056
00:55:52,364 --> 00:55:55,844
Speaker 3: somebody who's being bluffed on TV. And if they can

1057
00:55:55,884 --> 00:55:58,484
Speaker 3: bluff you on TV, then they have, you know, then

1058
00:55:58,604 --> 00:56:00,284
Speaker 3: then they can go back and be a hero in

1059
00:56:00,324 --> 00:56:00,924
Speaker 3: their own game.

1060
00:56:03,164 --> 00:56:07,284
Speaker 2: How much impact was there for you from losing the

1061
00:56:07,364 --> 00:56:10,444
Speaker 2: Immortalized by Rounders heads up match against Johnny Chang? Was

1062
00:56:10,444 --> 00:56:14,724
Speaker 2: that like, were you still happy the next morning because

1063
00:56:14,764 --> 00:56:17,044
Speaker 2: you got fucking second place? Or was it like do

1064
00:56:17,044 --> 00:56:19,044
Speaker 2: you have like lifelong regret for me to where are

1065
00:56:19,084 --> 00:56:20,084
Speaker 2: you on that spectrum?

1066
00:56:21,644 --> 00:56:24,404
Speaker 3: The funny thing about that is, to me, that's still

1067
00:56:24,484 --> 00:56:28,004
Speaker 3: one of my favorite tournaments ever, just because I was

1068
00:56:28,044 --> 00:56:31,404
Speaker 3: really at the very beginning of my career and I

1069
00:56:31,844 --> 00:56:36,884
Speaker 3: had no idea how my skills would be applied at

1070
00:56:36,924 --> 00:56:38,684
Speaker 3: the World Series. I had a couple of people in

1071
00:56:38,724 --> 00:56:41,204
Speaker 3: the game that encouraged me to go, but I had

1072
00:56:41,204 --> 00:56:43,644
Speaker 3: no confidence that I would that I was going to

1073
00:56:43,644 --> 00:56:45,484
Speaker 3: be a favorite in the World Series, or that I

1074
00:56:45,524 --> 00:56:49,164
Speaker 3: could go deep and to have that experience of going

1075
00:56:49,204 --> 00:56:53,844
Speaker 3: through those four days and you know, trying to outplay

1076
00:56:53,924 --> 00:56:58,724
Speaker 3: people and the whole thing I mean, it was amazing

1077
00:56:58,764 --> 00:57:02,764
Speaker 3: for me. I just I love that tournament still. I

1078
00:57:02,844 --> 00:57:05,364
Speaker 3: still have, you know, great feelings about that. To me,

1079
00:57:05,964 --> 00:57:08,444
Speaker 3: The fact that I lost is it's not really a

1080
00:57:08,524 --> 00:57:11,924
Speaker 3: big deal. You know, you win tournaments and you lose them,

1081
00:57:12,124 --> 00:57:15,724
Speaker 3: you know, I don't I really have good feelings about that,

1082
00:57:15,804 --> 00:57:19,924
Speaker 3: you know how you know, each day of that tournament,

1083
00:57:20,364 --> 00:57:23,484
Speaker 3: how fun it was to see like, hey, I'm playing

1084
00:57:23,524 --> 00:57:26,564
Speaker 3: with these guys, I'm doing well, you know, and I'm

1085
00:57:26,564 --> 00:57:29,484
Speaker 3: seeing some fun things I'm seeing, you know, I'm you know,

1086
00:57:29,564 --> 00:57:33,644
Speaker 3: finding some creative plays that you know, because you're just

1087
00:57:33,684 --> 00:57:36,524
Speaker 3: making things up as you go law And I think

1088
00:57:36,764 --> 00:57:38,964
Speaker 3: for me, at least, I was discovering a lot of things,

1089
00:57:39,124 --> 00:57:41,044
Speaker 3: you know at that time.

1090
00:57:42,444 --> 00:57:46,804
Speaker 1: Well, I think that that is a wonderful note to

1091
00:57:47,604 --> 00:57:49,844
Speaker 1: go out on, because that is that is kind of

1092
00:57:50,204 --> 00:57:52,484
Speaker 1: a peak accomplishment, even though you did not end up

1093
00:57:52,564 --> 00:57:55,084
Speaker 1: winning that bracelet. But do you have any you know,

1094
00:57:55,564 --> 00:57:57,804
Speaker 1: as I'm sure that a lot of poker players are

1095
00:57:57,844 --> 00:58:00,604
Speaker 1: listening to this or and aspiring poker players, do you

1096
00:58:00,644 --> 00:58:03,484
Speaker 1: want to leave? You know, the first question I ever

1097
00:58:03,524 --> 00:58:06,164
Speaker 1: asked you, I'm gonna I'm gonna end the interview with it,

1098
00:58:06,404 --> 00:58:08,644
Speaker 1: which is if you could tell one thing, kind of

1099
00:58:08,764 --> 00:58:12,244
Speaker 1: one piece of advice for for poker players who are

1100
00:58:12,564 --> 00:58:14,724
Speaker 1: either starting out or at any point in their journey.

1101
00:58:15,204 --> 00:58:15,844
Speaker 1: What would it be.

1102
00:58:16,124 --> 00:58:19,324
Speaker 3: Well, I remember I told you to pay attention, and

1103
00:58:19,364 --> 00:58:22,244
Speaker 3: I still think that applies because there's just there's so

1104
00:58:22,324 --> 00:58:25,884
Speaker 3: much information. I feel like people are teaching you how

1105
00:58:25,924 --> 00:58:29,364
Speaker 3: to beat them if you just pay enough attention to

1106
00:58:29,484 --> 00:58:33,364
Speaker 3: their patterns and and what they're doing. So if you're

1107
00:58:33,364 --> 00:58:36,764
Speaker 3: paying enough attention, then you know that that that's a

1108
00:58:36,804 --> 00:58:37,564
Speaker 3: big exploit.

1109
00:58:38,324 --> 00:58:40,644
Speaker 1: I think that those are those are wise words and

1110
00:58:40,764 --> 00:58:43,124
Speaker 1: very difficult. So phone bands, yay.

1111
00:58:44,284 --> 00:58:46,804
Speaker 2: I want to ask you one question about my co host.

1112
00:58:48,204 --> 00:58:50,044
Speaker 2: When you were coaching Maria, when did you think that

1113
00:58:50,084 --> 00:58:51,524
Speaker 2: she had real potential for the game.

1114
00:58:53,524 --> 00:58:56,284
Speaker 3: Maria was an exciting project. I mean just because she

1115
00:58:56,284 --> 00:58:59,804
Speaker 3: she came from nowhere. She she you know, she didn't

1116
00:58:59,884 --> 00:59:03,444
Speaker 3: know how many cards were in a deck. But I

1117
00:59:03,484 --> 00:59:07,684
Speaker 3: think what I mean what happened with her was she

1118
00:59:07,684 --> 00:59:10,404
Speaker 3: she just worked so hard and so that was that

1119
00:59:10,564 --> 00:59:13,444
Speaker 3: was really that's the key to how successful she was.

1120
00:59:13,524 --> 00:59:16,764
Speaker 3: Is she really she was interested, she was open minded,

1121
00:59:16,964 --> 00:59:19,164
Speaker 3: and she you know, and she was willing to put

1122
00:59:19,164 --> 00:59:23,244
Speaker 3: the work in. And for me, it's it's just it's

1123
00:59:23,444 --> 00:59:25,924
Speaker 3: really thrilling to see that she's still playing. I really,

1124
00:59:26,364 --> 00:59:27,884
Speaker 3: I really got to kick out of the fact that

1125
00:59:27,884 --> 00:59:32,084
Speaker 3: she's still playing and still doing well. I continues to

1126
00:59:32,124 --> 00:59:36,404
Speaker 3: do well, so it's fun to sweat her well.

1127
00:59:36,604 --> 00:59:39,044
Speaker 1: Thank you for your time today, and thank you for

1128
00:59:39,564 --> 00:59:44,804
Speaker 1: your time throughout our entire relationship, because you have given

1129
00:59:44,804 --> 00:59:48,404
Speaker 1: me more hours of your life than than anyone has

1130
00:59:48,444 --> 00:59:51,684
Speaker 1: any right to ask for. So thank you for joining us.

1131
00:59:52,444 --> 00:59:55,404
Speaker 1: This was an absolute pleasure, and.

1132
00:59:55,724 --> 00:59:58,204
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was all mine. I'm a fan of the pod.

1133
00:59:59,324 --> 01:00:01,524
Speaker 1: Thank you friend of the pod. Nate likes to call

1134
01:00:01,564 --> 01:00:04,164
Speaker 1: people friends of the pod, so thank you friend of

1135
01:00:04,204 --> 01:00:04,884
Speaker 1: the pod here.

1136
01:00:05,244 --> 01:00:08,124
Speaker 3: I know that's a big upgrade. I like it.

1137
01:00:14,564 --> 01:00:16,484
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think of the show. Reach

1138
01:00:16,604 --> 01:00:20,404
Speaker 1: out to us at Risky Business at pushkin dot fm.

1139
01:00:20,804 --> 01:00:23,244
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you're a Pushkin Plus subscriber,

1140
01:00:23,364 --> 01:00:26,244
Speaker 1: we have some bonus content for you today. It's more

1141
01:00:26,284 --> 01:00:29,684
Speaker 1: from our interview with Leo Marjetz that's coming up right

1142
01:00:29,724 --> 01:00:30,524
Speaker 1: after the credits.

1143
01:00:31,004 --> 01:00:33,444
Speaker 2: And if you're not subscribing, what's wrong with you? Consider

1144
01:00:33,524 --> 01:00:35,364
Speaker 2: signing up For just six hundred and a month. You

1145
01:00:35,404 --> 01:00:37,764
Speaker 2: get access to that premium content and add free listening

1146
01:00:37,844 --> 01:00:40,044
Speaker 2: across Pushkin's entire network of shows.

1147
01:00:40,324 --> 01:00:43,444
Speaker 1: Risky Business is hosted by me Maria Kanikova.

1148
01:00:43,124 --> 01:00:45,524
Speaker 2: And by me Nate Silver. The show is a co

1149
01:00:45,564 --> 01:00:49,724
Speaker 2: production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. This episode was produced

1150
01:00:49,724 --> 01:00:53,684
Speaker 2: by Isabel Carter. Our associate producer is Sonia Gerwin. Sally

1151
01:00:53,764 --> 01:00:56,804
Speaker 2: Helm is our editor, and our executive producer is Jacob Goldstein.

1152
01:00:57,284 --> 01:00:58,484
Speaker 2: Mixing by Sarah Bruger.

1153
01:00:58,844 --> 01:01:00,044
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in.