WEBVTT - Gimme That Old Time Space Religion 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:14.000 Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.120 My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.200 had If you read or say I know I've asked 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:20.840 you this before, but if you read or scene Dune, 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.079 I have seen parts of it in the past. But 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.120 I think when I say parts of it, like it 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.760 was on some sort of secondary cable channel on this Saturday, 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:32.720 and it might have been during a time in my 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:34.239 life where I was a little bit tired in the 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:35.720 morning and I just sat there in the couch, So 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.120 I cannot say that with fidelity. I watched it, you know, 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.320 from the beginning to end. Okay, well, well that's that's fair. 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.479 Um that classes muster. Yeah, well yeah, I mean I 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.080 remember watching the film in bits and pieces on cable 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:50.879 TV when I was younger, and then I read it, 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.959 and then I read it again. But there's this thing 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.480 that that shows up in it called the Orange Catholic Bible. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.400 Done for anyone who's not definitely or be you know 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:05.280 space epic Um space opera, uh story that takes place 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.200 on too far distant worlds long after Earth has has vanished, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.120 but there's still all these human civilizations out there on 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.640 different planets, and they still have religion. Um. And the 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.160 book and the books kind of deal with the emergence 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.200 of a new religion, but the one that they have 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.240 taken with them is this thing they call the the 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.600 Orange Catholic Bible, or that's that's their text anyway, which 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:29.320 I always kind of picture in my mind being like 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.200 a really orange looking but I was just thinking of fanta, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.120 you know, with a big cross on it on it. Yeah. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.320 So it's supposedly a an accumulated book. And like this 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:43.360 is the quote from from Doing Uh, the religious text 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:48.120 produced by the Commission of Ecumenical trans Translators. It contains 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.040 elements of the most ancient religions including and uh he 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.640 names a couple here that I think are made up, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:02:01.160 but also Christianity, Catholicism, uh, Buddhism, Islam, and Supreme Commandment 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:05.680 is considered to be quote thou shalt not disfigure the soul. Um. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:07.840 So what I what I really like about this is 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.760 the idea that you know, this decided that in some 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.720 far distant future we still have taken religion with us. 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.120 Though it is altered its form. It just as religion 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.480 and belief. Human belief alters just you know, from generation 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:27.040 to generation. Yeah, it evolves over time. And uh, and 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.360 it's such a fascinating area of thought, not only because 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.000 I like to you know, we're kind of future so 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:33.919 I like to imagine what what are humans gonna be 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:35.560 doing in the future, What are they gonna be thinking? 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.320 How are they going to be perceiving their world? But 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.120 it's does stir a lot of debate because or maybe 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.600 just angst because on one hand, there are people that 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.239 are that are very adamant about the idea that that 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.440 we should just leave the religion at home. It should 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:52.720 be sort of a church and state thing here. Yeah, 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.600 or and also that like science is is gonna is 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.560 the thing that's gonna get us, that gets us into orbit. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.320 It's not it's not faith, it's not belief, it's not 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.520 myth or lore or any of these things. Uh, it's 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.720 it's solid facts. It's it's it's science. And science should 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:09.200 be the thing that we take with us. It's the 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.600 thing that propels us. And that that if we bring 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.200 all these these outdated ideas of gods and goddesses into 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.040 into the cosmos with us. Then we're just bringing trouble 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.959 with us. Well that it maybe could hamstring our understanding, 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.240 right right, Okay, so in that sense that that the 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.240 two shall never sort of coexist in this example, right, 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:31.280 But that's not necessarily the case. I mean, what if 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.080 I'm not wrong too? It is that Carl Segond who 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.840 said that he felt like it at some point in 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.360 in the future that there might even be a science 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:43.440 based religion that could bridge Yeah, Sagan is um we 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:45.720 all wear turtlenecks. Oh, that would be great, we have 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.720 that that cool haircutting. I would do it. Yeah. I 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.840 think there's definitely an argument that we're no matter where 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.240 we go as a species, um, at least as far 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.800 as we you know, not not getting into ideas of like, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.880 you know, human consciousness changing based on O our what 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.680 it currently is to be human. Um, we're gonna bring 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:06.920 this world view we're some sort of worldview with us. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.080 Now what pieces we used to construct it? You know, 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.800 that's kind of uh up for grabs. Um. It kind 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.760 of becomes like, you know, buffet religion, where I like 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.680 to imagine people choosing only the healthiest uh bits from 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.280 the buffet to take with them into the future and 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:30.880 leaving the the fatty, uh, disgusting or intolerable um items 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.120 on the buffet. Yeah, that's stuff that gives you poopy 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.839 tubes later on. Yeah. Yeah, well that that is nice. 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.280 But this is a lot of yeah, and this is 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:39.800 what could happen. Yeah, and this is a lot of 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.000 me talking. But we're gonna discuss other people's ideas. And besides, 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.800 let's talk about Okay, so we've had some space exploration. 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.160 Let's talk about, um, you know, what people have observed 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.080 in space religion. Why because that's not a big topic 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.159 that comes up when you say, oh, okay, well you 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.480 know there's a space mission and so on and so forth. Yeah, 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:58.800 if we were going to keep outer space religion free, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.359 we kind of already screwed of that one up because 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.719 because we've we've actually seen some interesting examples of uh. Well, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.000 for start, let's start off with Christianity, since uh, it 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.560 was largely um, you know, just by having stance of history, um, 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.600 christian men who wound up in space before most other religions. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.800 So um, we have, for instance, buzz Aldrin in the 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:26.120 nineteen sixty nine, who consume convenient communion bread and wine, 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.520 on the Moon. Yeah. Now he didn't get to transmit 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.480 the ceremony back to Earth because NASA had it was 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.839 already in kind of deep water because they let the 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.800 Apollo eight crew read from the Book of Genesis for 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.560 Christmas and they transmitted that and uh, and so there's 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.240 a big lawsuit. Um. But but yeah, buzz Aldrin having 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.920 communion on the moon. Okay, Well, you know what, you 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.679 gotta get your wine in there. I get it. Although 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.560 I understand that's it's a deeper, more symbolic thing going 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.039 on than just ingesting wine. I get it. Yeah. And 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.960 then uh, and then people have continued to when they 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:01.840 have faith, to bring it with them and uh. And 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.880 sometimes they'll bring some rather interesting articles of faith with them. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.400 Faith with him. This was just in two in the 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.920 in two thousand nine, but cosmonaut Maxim Serav reported that 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.720 the Russian Federal Space Agency has a small cash he 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.640 of religious items on the International Space Station, including a 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:23.839 reliquary cross, which allegedly contains a piece of the original cross. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.400 Uh that Jesus was crucified on it. Yeah. Now, for 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:29.840 those of you aren't familiar, this has been a common 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:34.760 thing throughout history since the Crucifixion, uh, you know, took 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.720 place that they would have these holy relics, little pieces 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.520 of the Cross. And I've also heard it argued that 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.200 if you were to take every alleged piece of the 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.400 True Cross and we're to reassemble the true Cross, the 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.440 true Cross would be enormous. It would be like the 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.560 size of a supermarket or something. Okay, so they would 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.600 have to go in and really like it changed the 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.640 engineering on them. Well, there's there's a lot of fraudulent pieces, 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.760 So I'm not saying that they definitely have a piece 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.200 of this true men know, historic goal, um, you know thing, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.919 but but they they they think they or they have 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.039 a piece that claims to you know, and have a 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:09.880 bit of the True Cross. So it's just kind of 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:16.480 fascinating that they're religious relics in space right now. Even um, 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.880 of course we've had the Jewish faith. Judaism has gone 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.239 into a space before in the form of kosher food. 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:27.960 It's already appeared on orbital menus and uh, which you know, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:29.960 it makes sense to me in a way because if 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.400 you're a vegetarian, you probably would want vegetarian food and space, 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.680 right not necessarily that that's associated with any sort of religion. 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.000 But um, yeah, you know, I mean there are certain 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.200 things that you're trying to adhere to write if you 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.840 have certain diet hairy restrictions, be they health related or 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.560 faith related. You know. The one of the big things 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.960 about space food is you want people to eat the food. 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:51.640 That's why we've had this. There's been a lot of 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.600 work that's gone into making space food edible and not 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.520 only edible but tasty and and like Taylor fitting the 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:02.360 menu two individuals on these different space missions. So you know, 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:04.280 you want this dude to eat, you want him to 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.840 be healthy or heat or she in orbit. So yeah, 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:08.920 if they have a certain dietary restriction, even if it's 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.720 purely religion based, then they're gonna they're gonna do what 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:14.720 they can to make it work. Okay, So so far, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:16.520 I don't really see any of these things sort of 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.080 interfering with the mission itself, right right, you know, because 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.720 because other things that like um, astronaut Jeff Hoffman uh 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.680 took like a drado into space to just you know, 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:27.880 to spin it around because that's kind of gimmick and cool, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.200 right um and uh, and and there was this there 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.240 was an experiment where they lit the candles on a 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.240 on a menorah and they were like looking at how 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:41.400 the flame is spherical, uh, which is just cool, okay 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.160 um and uh yeah, so this is not really getting 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.400 in the way of anything. Um. Now there's another whole 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:52.640 fascinating area, and that's the idea of taking Islam into space. Yeah. 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.520 And and in fact it didn't wasn't there is it 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.000 in my Myanmar where they had a big discussion about 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.520 the best ways to go into space and they produced 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:08.400 actual guide on un observing um Muslim religion in space. Yeah. Well, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.880 the Malaysian National Space Agents, um they yeah. They back 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:17.240 in two thousand six, the Department of the Yeah, the 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.600 same same letter U. The County's the country's Department of 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.480 Islamic Development, assembled a team of a hundred and fifty 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.280 Islamic scientists and scholars, and they ended up putting together 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.480 a twelve page booklet on recommendations for how to conduct 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.000 oneself in accordance with Islamic law on space. Because obviously, 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.680 when when laws like this are originally laid out, no 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.800 one's taking into account space missions. And we're talking about 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.360 and specifically here we're talking about of course, their dietary restrictions, 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:49.200 just as there are in uh in judaism Um. Slightly different, 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.880 but but they have them. Uh. And then there's the 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.600 whole tradition of praying to in the direction of Mecca, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.400 which can be a fairly complicated thing on Earth. As 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.320 we discussed in the the episode of Technology be Ancients. 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:07.760 The astrolabe is a rather cosmic instrument that allow that 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:13.480 has allowed for thousands of years individuals to determine Mecca, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:15.640 exactly the location of Mecca so that they're praying in 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.440 the right direction. Yeah, I mean, I have to say 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.720 like a lot of this again, doesn't it feels like, Okay, 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.040 you're in a you're on a mission, and you're an individual, 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:23.920 and so as you said, you bring up, you're going 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.240 to bring your belief system with you and your particular 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.079 It's almost like if I went into space, I probably 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:34.079 would have my my my unicorn versus norwhale figurings. I 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.839 might bring those with me, but they're both pointy, and 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:38.559 you're gonna bring them in on them just float around 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.640 versus Okay, well, as long as they're pointed at each other. 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.959 But I can just imagine them flying into someone's eyes 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.240 when the shuttle. You know, of course I would tether 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.400 them down, but I'm just saying that, you know, we 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.040 all bring some sort of cage of ourselves wherever we go, 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.040 so it's unavoidable to to bring this. But so so 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:58.840 far it seems like, you know, those are things that 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.040 are not necessarily problem on right, and those out of 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.440 those recommendations made by the Department of Islamic Development, they 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.080 pointed out that like if you you should always attempt 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.600 to pray in the direction of Mecca, and that if 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.640 you're when possible, but that ultimately it's like if you know, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.640 if you can't figure it out, it's the prayer is 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.000 more important than where you're you're pointed. Uh. Likewise, if 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.920 you are on a space mission away from Earth, say 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.760 you're on your win of Mars, it's perfectly acceptable just 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.720 to pray in the direction of Earth. Or the detail 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.920 I liked the most, that is, if you can't tell 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.480 which direction the Earth is in, you can just your 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:40.439 prayer can be directed quote wherever, because if you because 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.520 I'm thinking like, that's the time when you definitely want 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.280 to get down to some serious praying when you're on 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.720 that spaceship and you have no idea where Earth is 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.800 in relation to the ship. Um. And then other stuff 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.320 was just like, for instance, they have a daily five 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.320 prayer cycle, and if you're not on Earth, then the 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:01.520 twenty four hour cycle is those a little different because yeah, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.280 you'd just been because you end up every time you 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:04.920 you revolve around the Earth, you're gonna fit in five 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.240 different prayers. You would just be praying NonStop basically. UM. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.520 So they just said we'll just keep it in line 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.160 with the passing of the hours on the planet Earth, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.400 which makes sense all right, so you know, gotta gotta 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.720 get some grand rules here. Um. So okay, it's still 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.280 though a pretty big topic, right, Um, you know, religion 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:27.040 and space science really. And what I noticed is that 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.040 when I was at the World Science Festival, and I 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.680 had gone to a panel called the Future of Big Science, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:37.480 which featured Nobel laureate and physicist Stephen Weinberg, Uh, that 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.559 people brought up religion after his talk about you know, 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.199 these big future of big science and what might happen um. 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.520 And I was actually kind of surprised about that because 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.720 he talked more about um, you know, funding and you know, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.760 politics and so on and so forth. Um. But he 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.280 took a question from an audience member concerning religion, and 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.160 then this person said, do you think that in the US, 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.720 because we are so focused on religion every aspect of society, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.400 including science, and this comes up, you know, again and 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.120 again about whether the two can co exist, do you 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.160 think that that is actually hamstringing the US's ability to 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:17.200 compete in the field of science. And um Winberg was, uh, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.920 you know, he didn't really directly answer that question, but 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.360 what he did say is that in the West. Uh. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.160 He says, I don't find an anti science mentality. What 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.680 I find is a confusion about what science is. And 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:33.680 he went on to say that this just isn't a 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:39.200 problem in most countries, particularly countries like China and um 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.400 and they don't necessarily have any debates about pursuing scientific 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.880 endeavors in the face of religion. In other words, their 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:51.320 funding is not attached to any political groups who may 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:59.440 question the the potential of space exploration or scientific endeavors, 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.680 even the large Hadron Collider for instance. UM. So that's 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:05.880 I think what Wimberg goes sort of pointing to is 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.920 that this is when there can be a problem with 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.960 religion and science, because if you have different groups. And 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.920 again you talk about religion, you're talking about like incredibly 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:22.280 complex mosaic of religions and beliefs and thoughts and opinions 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.120 and trying to fit all of that, you know, under 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.080 one heading. That then is directing possibly what what a 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:34.760 government might be doing in terms of scientific endeavors. Really 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:40.520 is sort of like trapping you know, gas in a suitcase. Right. Um, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.440 it's it's a difficult thing to intertwine the two. Yeah. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.760 Now in another country where it's apparently not that big 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.800 of an issue, is uh, you know, the whole science religion. 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.880 There is India. Um, there's a guy by the name 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:57.920 of their daughter, Ja the Rahman and actually um and 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:02.680 he is a professor of physics Enities at Rochester Institute 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.800 of Technology and uh. I actually interviewed him maybe a 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.800 year ago, and he's a he's a period of talking 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.720 about this particular issue I think on speaking speaking of faith, 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:16.000 which I think is now called being the MPR show. Yeah, 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.560 Christ yeah, Christai and uh and he pointed out he 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.240 actually wrote an essay called why in science and whine 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:26.360 religion and uh in in in the difference, part of 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.480 the problem could be linguistic because in Uh. In the 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.920 English language, we have the word why, and that word 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.000 has to has has two different senses. There's the there's 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.680 the there's the cause why, like why am I unhappy? 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.240 Or to put it more simply, what is the cause 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.640 of my unhappiness? All right? And the effect that you know, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.520 the effect is dependent upon prior events, so which the 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.840 students related to the cost. And then there's the why 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.960 in the teleological sense, right, Uh. Teleology is the is 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.880 the philosophical study of design and purpose. So if you're 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.760 saying why am i? Why am I happy? And you 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.360 interpret that in the telological sense, you know, it's this 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.360 deep question about the meaning of the universe, geological meaning God, 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.440 like you're outside of yourself, so why God me? Do 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.840 you why that? But as opposed to why did this? 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.440 You know, what were the events that led to this happening? Right? 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:16.600 And uh? You know, like I said, why why are 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.920 there humans? Why? Why are we going into space? That 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.040 kind of thing? Um? But in the in Tamil, there 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.240 are two different words for the each different why. So 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.120 I just find that that fascinating that you can say, um, 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.440 why are there humans you know on the planet? Why 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.920 did why are we the most you know, the involved 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.480 species on Earth, and you can say that with it 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.560 with just the right word to make it a completely 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:43.440 non religious or even or even philosophical question. So it's 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.000 kind of interesting at the end of the day that 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.520 humanity really shares more similarities than dissimilarities, right, Like, we 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.600 all are pretty blown away by the mysteries of the world, 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.160 whether or not we're looking at them through a religious 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.720 or a scientific lens, and we all pretty much want 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.080 the best for each other in ourselves, right, So it 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.160 is kind of fascinating that even though that's that's primarily 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.000 the case, we still get down to semantics and we're 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:11.120 splitting hairs and this causes a lot of heartache and mayhem. Um. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.240 But I do think it's interesting, um, But that that 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.679 Winberg was saying that, you know, the crux of this 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.159 is that it comes down to funding sometimes because you 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.480 do have lobbyists that are talking to senators saying, you know, 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.040 don't support this or do support this, And so that's 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.280 really where where the the I guess you could say 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.639 that rubber hits the pavement right in terms of seeing 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.760 these ideals play out in concrete ways, And for Winberg, 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.560 he is very concerned about the future of science in 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.720 America because he sees cuts and funding because people and 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.199 it's a heart economy, people don't necessarily want to you know, 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:52.880 support things that are especially space exploration related, And he's 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.080 not necessarily saying let's put a bunch of people in 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.080 the space. In fact, I think from what I could 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.679 tell that he's he's thinking the unmanned missions are the 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.720 way to because you can still gather data. Um. But 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:04.480 for him, it's still like, you know, what, what what 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.919 Let's figure out what this world is all about. This 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.919 is fascinating stuff. We live in it, and this is 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:11.919 the way to do it through science because we're collecting 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.280 data every day that that really changes our perspective or 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.080 adds to it or you know, makes the sort of again, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.120 this mosaic of our existence a little bit even more um, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.639 amazing and powerful. Right. So, I guess one of the 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.480 one of the things is when when when science is 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.199 trying to answer those questions, at what point did they 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:35.160 end up asking questions that interfere with the questions that religion, Uh, 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.199 some religions claim to answer, right right, yeah, Well, but 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.199 this is the cool thing is that we've seen like 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:45.240 for for instance, with Brother g. Consulmanio. He works the 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:50.399 Vatican essentially, Um, he's entered into the arena of planetary 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:56.080 exploration ethics, right, the possible existence of extraterrestrial life and 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.160 whether or not aliens would be with or without original sin. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.840 And it turns out that Brother Consomania is also very 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.480 cool with terror forming other planets and attempt to foster 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.320 life there. So what I'm seeing there and what I 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.760 say it's cool is because the conversation is happening. Yeah, 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.040 it's not hamstring necessarily. What's going on right now from 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.560 his you know, at least from this limited perspective of Consomania, 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.760 he's actually taking some of these issues and talking about 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.959 them through religious lens and exploring them and not shutting 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.600 them down. Um, you know, is it funny that you know, 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.320 is it kind of funny to think that he might 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:37.800 be seeking out an alien and then just you know, 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.000 trying to uh, that does the alien. Yes, but that's 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.960 not necessarily what he's doing. That's just that's really especially 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.199 if if water will end up melting the alien and 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.240 then he ends up actually kicking off an interstellar war, 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.480 that would that would be horrible. Wow. And then yet 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:56.480 flying monkeys will be very angry. Yeah, exactly. Um, just 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.680 it just occurs to me the gremlins could never be baptized, 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.040 could they if gremlins existed? Or well, what are the 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.680 things that turned into grim wins? The magua? Yeah, that's 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.200 a whole there. I have a number of scientific um 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:14.240 questions about the magua. Uh. But but we'll get past podcast, 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.400 of course. Yeah, but let's talk about like when religion 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.800 and science actually worked together in space exploration. You have 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.919 a couple of examples. Yeah. One of them that I 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.520 really loved, um that I ran across a few months 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.560 back is the story of Dr James C. Fletcher. And 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:32.320 this guy served as NASSA administrator from seventy seven eight 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:38.159 eight nine. And this this guy was extremely influential. Like basically, 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.240 we can we can almost lay the Space Shuttle program 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:44.280 at his feet. You know, he was he was very 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.640 gung ho, like let's get let's get out there, let's 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.600 let's explore the cosmos, let's find extra restaurants, let's find 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.480 seti um which is and then not something everyone's into 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.960 these days. But but but the really interesting thing is 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.040 this this guy grew up and was a about member 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.359 of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.320 the Mormon Church, and and you know he was he was, 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.960 he was a believer. And and where it gets interesting 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:13.640 is that and we're not going to go into into 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.480 depth about Mormon theology or Mormon cosmology, but it does 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:21.640 involve a universe full of quote worlds without number. And 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.240 then then these worlds are, according to to their their religion, 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.920 inhabited by intelligent beings. So in other words, that the 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:34.000 religion already includes xtra terrestrial life, like it's already factored 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.600 into the design. So it's it's not something where um 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.840 and some of the like older you know, Christian religions, um, 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.520 more traditional Christian religions, you have this. You know, it's 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.320