1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: had If you read or say I know I've asked 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: you this before, but if you read or scene Dune, 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: I have seen parts of it in the past. But 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: I think when I say parts of it, like it 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: was on some sort of secondary cable channel on this Saturday, 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: and it might have been during a time in my 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: life where I was a little bit tired in the 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: morning and I just sat there in the couch, So 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: I cannot say that with fidelity. I watched it, you know, 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: from the beginning to end. Okay, well, well that's that's fair. 14 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: Um that classes muster. Yeah, well yeah, I mean I 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: remember watching the film in bits and pieces on cable 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: TV when I was younger, and then I read it, 17 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 1: and then I read it again. But there's this thing 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: that that shows up in it called the Orange Catholic Bible. 19 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: Done for anyone who's not definitely or be you know 20 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: space epic Um space opera, uh story that takes place 21 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: on too far distant worlds long after Earth has has vanished, 22 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: but there's still all these human civilizations out there on 23 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: different planets, and they still have religion. Um. And the 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: book and the books kind of deal with the emergence 25 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: of a new religion, but the one that they have 26 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: taken with them is this thing they call the the 27 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: Orange Catholic Bible, or that's that's their text anyway, which 28 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: I always kind of picture in my mind being like 29 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: a really orange looking but I was just thinking of fanta, 30 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, with a big cross on it on it. Yeah. 31 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: So it's supposedly a an accumulated book. And like this 32 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: is the quote from from Doing Uh, the religious text 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: produced by the Commission of Ecumenical trans Translators. It contains 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: elements of the most ancient religions including and uh he 35 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: names a couple here that I think are made up, 36 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: but also Christianity, Catholicism, uh, Buddhism, Islam, and Supreme Commandment 37 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: is considered to be quote thou shalt not disfigure the soul. Um. 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: So what I what I really like about this is 39 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: the idea that you know, this decided that in some 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: far distant future we still have taken religion with us. 41 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: Though it is altered its form. It just as religion 42 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: and belief. Human belief alters just you know, from generation 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: to generation. Yeah, it evolves over time. And uh, and 44 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: it's such a fascinating area of thought, not only because 45 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: I like to you know, we're kind of future so 46 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: I like to imagine what what are humans gonna be 47 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: doing in the future, What are they gonna be thinking? 48 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: How are they going to be perceiving their world? But 49 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: it's does stir a lot of debate because or maybe 50 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: just angst because on one hand, there are people that 51 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: are that are very adamant about the idea that that 52 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: we should just leave the religion at home. It should 53 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: be sort of a church and state thing here. Yeah, 54 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: or and also that like science is is gonna is 55 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: the thing that's gonna get us, that gets us into orbit. 56 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: It's not it's not faith, it's not belief, it's not 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: myth or lore or any of these things. Uh, it's 58 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: it's solid facts. It's it's it's science. And science should 59 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: be the thing that we take with us. It's the 60 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: thing that propels us. And that that if we bring 61 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: all these these outdated ideas of gods and goddesses into 62 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: into the cosmos with us. Then we're just bringing trouble 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: with us. Well that it maybe could hamstring our understanding, 64 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: right right, Okay, so in that sense that that the 65 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: two shall never sort of coexist in this example, right, 66 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: But that's not necessarily the case. I mean, what if 67 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm not wrong too? It is that Carl Segond who 68 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: said that he felt like it at some point in 69 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: in the future that there might even be a science 70 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: based religion that could bridge Yeah, Sagan is um we 71 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: all wear turtlenecks. Oh, that would be great, we have 72 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: that that cool haircutting. I would do it. Yeah. I 73 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: think there's definitely an argument that we're no matter where 74 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: we go as a species, um, at least as far 75 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: as we you know, not not getting into ideas of like, 76 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, human consciousness changing based on O our what 77 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: it currently is to be human. Um, we're gonna bring 78 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: this world view we're some sort of worldview with us. 79 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: Now what pieces we used to construct it? You know, 80 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of uh up for grabs. Um. It kind 81 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: of becomes like, you know, buffet religion, where I like 82 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: to imagine people choosing only the healthiest uh bits from 83 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: the buffet to take with them into the future and 84 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: leaving the the fatty, uh, disgusting or intolerable um items 85 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: on the buffet. Yeah, that's stuff that gives you poopy 86 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: tubes later on. Yeah. Yeah, well that that is nice. 87 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: But this is a lot of yeah, and this is 88 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: what could happen. Yeah, and this is a lot of 89 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: me talking. But we're gonna discuss other people's ideas. And besides, 90 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: let's talk about Okay, so we've had some space exploration. 91 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: Let's talk about, um, you know, what people have observed 92 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: in space religion. Why because that's not a big topic 93 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: that comes up when you say, oh, okay, well you 94 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: know there's a space mission and so on and so forth. Yeah, 95 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: if we were going to keep outer space religion free, 96 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 1: we kind of already screwed of that one up because 97 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: because we've we've actually seen some interesting examples of uh. Well, 98 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: for start, let's start off with Christianity, since uh, it 99 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: was largely um, you know, just by having stance of history, um, 100 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: christian men who wound up in space before most other religions. 101 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: So um, we have, for instance, buzz Aldrin in the 102 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, who consume convenient communion bread and wine, 103 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: on the Moon. Yeah. Now he didn't get to transmit 104 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: the ceremony back to Earth because NASA had it was 105 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: already in kind of deep water because they let the 106 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: Apollo eight crew read from the Book of Genesis for 107 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: Christmas and they transmitted that and uh, and so there's 108 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: a big lawsuit. Um. But but yeah, buzz Aldrin having 109 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: communion on the moon. Okay, Well, you know what, you 110 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 1: gotta get your wine in there. I get it. Although 111 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: I understand that's it's a deeper, more symbolic thing going 112 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: on than just ingesting wine. I get it. Yeah. And 113 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: then uh, and then people have continued to when they 114 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: have faith, to bring it with them and uh. And 115 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: sometimes they'll bring some rather interesting articles of faith with them. 116 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Faith with him. This was just in two in the 117 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, but cosmonaut Maxim Serav reported that 118 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: the Russian Federal Space Agency has a small cash he 119 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: of religious items on the International Space Station, including a 120 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: reliquary cross, which allegedly contains a piece of the original cross. 121 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: Uh that Jesus was crucified on it. Yeah. Now, for 122 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: those of you aren't familiar, this has been a common 123 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: thing throughout history since the Crucifixion, uh, you know, took 124 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: place that they would have these holy relics, little pieces 125 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: of the Cross. And I've also heard it argued that 126 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: if you were to take every alleged piece of the 127 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: True Cross and we're to reassemble the true Cross, the 128 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: true Cross would be enormous. It would be like the 129 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: size of a supermarket or something. Okay, so they would 130 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: have to go in and really like it changed the 131 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: engineering on them. Well, there's there's a lot of fraudulent pieces, 132 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that they definitely have a piece 133 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: of this true men know, historic goal, um, you know thing, 134 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: but but they they they think they or they have 135 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: a piece that claims to you know, and have a 136 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: bit of the True Cross. So it's just kind of 137 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: fascinating that they're religious relics in space right now. Even um, 138 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: of course we've had the Jewish faith. Judaism has gone 139 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 1: into a space before in the form of kosher food. 140 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: It's already appeared on orbital menus and uh, which you know, 141 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: it makes sense to me in a way because if 142 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: you're a vegetarian, you probably would want vegetarian food and space, 143 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: right not necessarily that that's associated with any sort of religion. 144 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, you know, I mean there are certain 145 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: things that you're trying to adhere to write if you 146 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: have certain diet hairy restrictions, be they health related or 147 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: faith related. You know. The one of the big things 148 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: about space food is you want people to eat the food. 149 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: That's why we've had this. There's been a lot of 150 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: work that's gone into making space food edible and not 151 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: only edible but tasty and and like Taylor fitting the 152 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: menu two individuals on these different space missions. So you know, 153 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: you want this dude to eat, you want him to 154 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: be healthy or heat or she in orbit. So yeah, 155 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: if they have a certain dietary restriction, even if it's 156 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: purely religion based, then they're gonna they're gonna do what 157 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: they can to make it work. Okay, So so far, 158 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: I don't really see any of these things sort of 159 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: interfering with the mission itself, right right, you know, because 160 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: because other things that like um, astronaut Jeff Hoffman uh 161 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: took like a drado into space to just you know, 162 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: to spin it around because that's kind of gimmick and cool, 163 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: right um and uh, and and there was this there 164 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: was an experiment where they lit the candles on a 165 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: on a menorah and they were like looking at how 166 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: the flame is spherical, uh, which is just cool, okay 167 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: um and uh yeah, so this is not really getting 168 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: in the way of anything. Um. Now there's another whole 169 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: fascinating area, and that's the idea of taking Islam into space. Yeah. 170 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: And and in fact it didn't wasn't there is it 171 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: in my Myanmar where they had a big discussion about 172 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: the best ways to go into space and they produced 173 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: actual guide on un observing um Muslim religion in space. Yeah. Well, 174 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: the Malaysian National Space Agents, um they yeah. They back 175 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: in two thousand six, the Department of the Yeah, the 176 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: same same letter U. The County's the country's Department of 177 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: Islamic Development, assembled a team of a hundred and fifty 178 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: Islamic scientists and scholars, and they ended up putting together 179 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: a twelve page booklet on recommendations for how to conduct 180 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: oneself in accordance with Islamic law on space. Because obviously, 181 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: when when laws like this are originally laid out, no 182 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: one's taking into account space missions. And we're talking about 183 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: and specifically here we're talking about of course, their dietary restrictions, 184 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: just as there are in uh in judaism Um. Slightly different, 185 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: but but they have them. Uh. And then there's the 186 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: whole tradition of praying to in the direction of Mecca, 187 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: which can be a fairly complicated thing on Earth. As 188 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: we discussed in the the episode of Technology be Ancients. 189 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: The astrolabe is a rather cosmic instrument that allow that 190 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: has allowed for thousands of years individuals to determine Mecca, 191 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: exactly the location of Mecca so that they're praying in 192 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: the right direction. Yeah, I mean, I have to say 193 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: like a lot of this again, doesn't it feels like, Okay, 194 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: you're in a you're on a mission, and you're an individual, 195 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: and so as you said, you bring up, you're going 196 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: to bring your belief system with you and your particular 197 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: It's almost like if I went into space, I probably 198 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: would have my my my unicorn versus norwhale figurings. I 199 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: might bring those with me, but they're both pointy, and 200 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: you're gonna bring them in on them just float around 201 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: versus Okay, well, as long as they're pointed at each other. 202 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: But I can just imagine them flying into someone's eyes 203 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: when the shuttle. You know, of course I would tether 204 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: them down, but I'm just saying that, you know, we 205 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: all bring some sort of cage of ourselves wherever we go, 206 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: so it's unavoidable to to bring this. But so so 207 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: far it seems like, you know, those are things that 208 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: are not necessarily problem on right, and those out of 209 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: those recommendations made by the Department of Islamic Development, they 210 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: pointed out that like if you you should always attempt 211 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: to pray in the direction of Mecca, and that if 212 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: you're when possible, but that ultimately it's like if you know, 213 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: if you can't figure it out, it's the prayer is 214 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: more important than where you're you're pointed. Uh. Likewise, if 215 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: you are on a space mission away from Earth, say 216 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: you're on your win of Mars, it's perfectly acceptable just 217 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: to pray in the direction of Earth. Or the detail 218 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: I liked the most, that is, if you can't tell 219 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: which direction the Earth is in, you can just your 220 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: prayer can be directed quote wherever, because if you because 221 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: I'm thinking like, that's the time when you definitely want 222 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: to get down to some serious praying when you're on 223 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: that spaceship and you have no idea where Earth is 224 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: in relation to the ship. Um. And then other stuff 225 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: was just like, for instance, they have a daily five 226 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: prayer cycle, and if you're not on Earth, then the 227 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: twenty four hour cycle is those a little different because yeah, 228 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: you'd just been because you end up every time you 229 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: you revolve around the Earth, you're gonna fit in five 230 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: different prayers. You would just be praying NonStop basically. UM. 231 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: So they just said we'll just keep it in line 232 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: with the passing of the hours on the planet Earth, 233 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: which makes sense all right, so you know, gotta gotta 234 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: get some grand rules here. Um. So okay, it's still 235 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: though a pretty big topic, right, Um, you know, religion 236 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: and space science really. And what I noticed is that 237 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: when I was at the World Science Festival, and I 238 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: had gone to a panel called the Future of Big Science, 239 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: which featured Nobel laureate and physicist Stephen Weinberg, Uh, that 240 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: people brought up religion after his talk about you know, 241 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: these big future of big science and what might happen um. 242 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: And I was actually kind of surprised about that because 243 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: he talked more about um, you know, funding and you know, 244 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: politics and so on and so forth. Um. But he 245 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: took a question from an audience member concerning religion, and 246 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: then this person said, do you think that in the US, 247 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: because we are so focused on religion every aspect of society, 248 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: including science, and this comes up, you know, again and 249 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: again about whether the two can co exist, do you 250 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: think that that is actually hamstringing the US's ability to 251 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: compete in the field of science. And um Winberg was, uh, 252 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, he didn't really directly answer that question, but 253 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: what he did say is that in the West. Uh. 254 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: He says, I don't find an anti science mentality. What 255 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: I find is a confusion about what science is. And 256 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: he went on to say that this just isn't a 257 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: problem in most countries, particularly countries like China and um 258 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: and they don't necessarily have any debates about pursuing scientific 259 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: endeavors in the face of religion. In other words, their 260 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: funding is not attached to any political groups who may 261 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: question the the potential of space exploration or scientific endeavors, 262 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: even the large Hadron Collider for instance. UM. So that's 263 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: I think what Wimberg goes sort of pointing to is 264 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: that this is when there can be a problem with 265 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: religion and science, because if you have different groups. And 266 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: again you talk about religion, you're talking about like incredibly 267 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: complex mosaic of religions and beliefs and thoughts and opinions 268 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: and trying to fit all of that, you know, under 269 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: one heading. That then is directing possibly what what a 270 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: government might be doing in terms of scientific endeavors. Really 271 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: is sort of like trapping you know, gas in a suitcase. Right. Um, 272 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: it's it's a difficult thing to intertwine the two. Yeah. 273 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: Now in another country where it's apparently not that big 274 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: of an issue, is uh, you know, the whole science religion. 275 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: There is India. Um, there's a guy by the name 276 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: of their daughter, Ja the Rahman and actually um and 277 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: he is a professor of physics Enities at Rochester Institute 278 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: of Technology and uh. I actually interviewed him maybe a 279 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: year ago, and he's a he's a period of talking 280 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: about this particular issue I think on speaking speaking of faith, 281 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: which I think is now called being the MPR show. Yeah, 282 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: Christ yeah, Christai and uh and he pointed out he 283 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: actually wrote an essay called why in science and whine 284 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: religion and uh in in in the difference, part of 285 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: the problem could be linguistic because in Uh. In the 286 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: English language, we have the word why, and that word 287 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: has to has has two different senses. There's the there's 288 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: the there's the cause why, like why am I unhappy? 289 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: Or to put it more simply, what is the cause 290 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: of my unhappiness? All right? And the effect that you know, 291 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: the effect is dependent upon prior events, so which the 292 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: students related to the cost. And then there's the why 293 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: in the teleological sense, right, Uh. Teleology is the is 294 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: the philosophical study of design and purpose. So if you're 295 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: saying why am i? Why am I happy? And you 296 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: interpret that in the telological sense, you know, it's this 297 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: deep question about the meaning of the universe, geological meaning God, 298 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: like you're outside of yourself, so why God me? Do 299 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: you why that? But as opposed to why did this? 300 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: You know, what were the events that led to this happening? Right? 301 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: And uh? You know, like I said, why why are 302 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: there humans? Why? Why are we going into space? That 303 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: kind of thing? Um? But in the in Tamil, there 304 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: are two different words for the each different why. So 305 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: I just find that that fascinating that you can say, um, 306 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: why are there humans you know on the planet? Why 307 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: did why are we the most you know, the involved 308 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: species on Earth, and you can say that with it 309 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: with just the right word to make it a completely 310 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: non religious or even or even philosophical question. So it's 311 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: kind of interesting at the end of the day that 312 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: humanity really shares more similarities than dissimilarities, right, Like, we 313 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: all are pretty blown away by the mysteries of the world, 314 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: whether or not we're looking at them through a religious 315 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: or a scientific lens, and we all pretty much want 316 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: the best for each other in ourselves, right, So it 317 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating that even though that's that's primarily 318 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: the case, we still get down to semantics and we're 319 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: splitting hairs and this causes a lot of heartache and mayhem. Um. 320 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: But I do think it's interesting, um, But that that 321 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: Winberg was saying that, you know, the crux of this 322 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: is that it comes down to funding sometimes because you 323 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: do have lobbyists that are talking to senators saying, you know, 324 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: don't support this or do support this, And so that's 325 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: really where where the the I guess you could say 326 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: that rubber hits the pavement right in terms of seeing 327 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: these ideals play out in concrete ways, And for Winberg, 328 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: he is very concerned about the future of science in 329 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: America because he sees cuts and funding because people and 330 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: it's a heart economy, people don't necessarily want to you know, 331 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: support things that are especially space exploration related, And he's 332 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: not necessarily saying let's put a bunch of people in 333 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: the space. In fact, I think from what I could 334 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: tell that he's he's thinking the unmanned missions are the 335 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: way to because you can still gather data. Um. But 336 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: for him, it's still like, you know, what, what what 337 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: Let's figure out what this world is all about. This 338 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: is fascinating stuff. We live in it, and this is 339 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: the way to do it through science because we're collecting 340 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: data every day that that really changes our perspective or 341 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: adds to it or you know, makes the sort of again, 342 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: this mosaic of our existence a little bit even more um, 343 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: amazing and powerful. Right. So, I guess one of the 344 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: one of the things is when when when science is 345 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: trying to answer those questions, at what point did they 346 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: end up asking questions that interfere with the questions that religion, Uh, 347 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: some religions claim to answer, right right, yeah, Well, but 348 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: this is the cool thing is that we've seen like 349 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: for for instance, with Brother g. Consulmanio. He works the 350 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: Vatican essentially, Um, he's entered into the arena of planetary 351 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: exploration ethics, right, the possible existence of extraterrestrial life and 352 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: whether or not aliens would be with or without original sin. 353 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: And it turns out that Brother Consomania is also very 354 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: cool with terror forming other planets and attempt to foster 355 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: life there. So what I'm seeing there and what I 356 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: say it's cool is because the conversation is happening. Yeah, 357 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: it's not hamstring necessarily. What's going on right now from 358 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: his you know, at least from this limited perspective of Consomania, 359 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: he's actually taking some of these issues and talking about 360 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 1: them through religious lens and exploring them and not shutting 361 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: them down. Um, you know, is it funny that you know, 362 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: is it kind of funny to think that he might 363 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: be seeking out an alien and then just you know, 364 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: trying to uh, that does the alien. Yes, but that's 365 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: not necessarily what he's doing. That's just that's really especially 366 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: if if water will end up melting the alien and 367 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: then he ends up actually kicking off an interstellar war, 368 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: that would that would be horrible. Wow. And then yet 369 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: flying monkeys will be very angry. Yeah, exactly. Um, just 370 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: it just occurs to me the gremlins could never be baptized, 371 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: could they if gremlins existed? Or well, what are the 372 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: things that turned into grim wins? The magua? Yeah, that's 373 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: a whole there. I have a number of scientific um 374 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: questions about the magua. Uh. But but we'll get past podcast, 375 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: of course. Yeah, but let's talk about like when religion 376 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: and science actually worked together in space exploration. You have 377 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: a couple of examples. Yeah. One of them that I 378 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: really loved, um that I ran across a few months 379 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: back is the story of Dr James C. Fletcher. And 380 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: this guy served as NASSA administrator from seventy seven eight 381 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: eight nine. And this this guy was extremely influential. Like basically, 382 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: we can we can almost lay the Space Shuttle program 383 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: at his feet. You know, he was he was very 384 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: gung ho, like let's get let's get out there, let's 385 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: let's explore the cosmos, let's find extra restaurants, let's find 386 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: seti um which is and then not something everyone's into 387 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: these days. But but but the really interesting thing is 388 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: this this guy grew up and was a about member 389 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, 390 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: the Mormon Church, and and you know he was he was, 391 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: he was a believer. And and where it gets interesting 392 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: is that and we're not going to go into into 393 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: depth about Mormon theology or Mormon cosmology, but it does 394 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: involve a universe full of quote worlds without number. And 395 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: then then these worlds are, according to to their their religion, 396 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: inhabited by intelligent beings. So in other words, that the 397 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: religion already includes xtra terrestrial life, like it's already factored 398 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: into the design. So it's it's not something where um 399 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: and some of the like older you know, Christian religions, um, 400 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: more traditional Christian religions, you have this. You know, it's 401 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: like there's no room for aliens because there's the the 402 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: whole ideas like, well, God made humans, there's Earth. There's 403 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: no mention of anything else. And if and if you do, 404 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to, you know, to to directcon it 405 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: into the the the overall design. But with the with 406 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: the Mormon faith, it's already there. And so that was 407 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: one of the driving forces. He was part of the 408 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: agenda of that faith. Yeah, yeah, I mean, he wasn't 409 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 1: to have this sort of exploration, right, I mean, he 410 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: wasn't like, you know, getting up there, you know, at 411 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: NASA making big religious speeches of but it was one 412 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: of the things that personally drove him, as did the 413 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: whole Like the Mormon faith is also steeped in the 414 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: frontiersm you know, because because you know, there the Utah, 415 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: the early founders and the early members of the church 416 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: where there was a very you know, a frontier mentality, 417 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: and there's all in space exploration. You know, that's the 418 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: final frontier, right, or at least the next frontier. Well 419 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: and then we mean manifest destiny too is always been 420 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: part of that, right, which is for another time. But 421 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, and he also he also it's interesting is 422 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: that at the time, like before the nineteen fifties, UM, 423 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: people like in the Mormon Church, some of the higher ups, 424 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: they were very much against the idea of space exploration. 425 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: They were like, like, God's not gonna let you go 426 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: too far. He's gonna put limits on that, he's gonna 427 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: shut that down. You don't even don't even mess with it. 428 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: And he was like he was one of the of 429 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: several you know or numerous you know, intellectuals within the church. 430 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: We were like, no, that's that's complete hogwash. You know, 431 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: don't don't let don't let this stand in the way 432 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: of our science, and in fact it should be the 433 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: other way around. So so I found that to be 434 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: an inspirational story of religion actually drying. Yeah, I thought 435 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: that was pretty cool to us all your blog post 436 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: on it, and I had no idea about that. So, um, 437 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: it's a really good example of that. And then again 438 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: to bring up the astrolabe, this is again, this is 439 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: um primarily a an invention of UM of the Muslim 440 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 1: community from I can't remember now, but it had has 441 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: been in existence for her since the fifth century BCO. Yes, yes, 442 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: and um. And what was so cool about this instrument 443 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: is that it was improved upon and improved upon for 444 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of years by Muslim cosmologists who wanted 445 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: to know again, um, you know where Mecca is and 446 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: try to celebrate the important holidays and try to line 447 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: up this guy with with their worldview and their beliefs. 448 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: And what this did is it helped to usher in 449 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: an age of discovery. Later on for us and I say, 450 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: age of discovery. We're talking about sailing ships and you know, 451 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: discovering other countries, which of course there are parallels with 452 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: that in space. Right. Um, of course you don't see 453 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: in in some countries now you don't see a lot 454 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: of UM funding into space exploration or a lot of 455 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: the sciences today, but um, you know, back in the 456 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 1: day mathematics and sciences, this is very much the field 457 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: of UM of the Muslim religion, which you know, again 458 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: further our understanding today of what we know about the 459 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: physical world, which is really cool. So the question is 460 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: can the to exist coexist? Will it happen? Will the 461 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: discovery of say, extraterrestrial microbes change the face of religion 462 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: or will you know, people hold steady in their beliefs. Actually, 463 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: I've got a thought on that which I'm gonna get 464 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: to right after this quick break. This presentation is brought 465 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: to you by Intel Sponsors of Tomorrow. Okay, so here's 466 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: the thought that I have on on how extracestrial life 467 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: could shake religious belief I tend to find that there's 468 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's like you reach a point and you 469 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 1: and you adopt some sort of worldview, be it like 470 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: super religious or just sort of quasi religious. Or you know, 471 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: or just sort of feel, yeah, our medium or none, 472 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: you still end up taking this on this world view, 473 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: and inevitably, like part of the human experience is that 474 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: something's gonna come along to shake that. So I feel like, 475 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: if say, if you believe in a god, like like 476 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: a god that's like say personally involved in your life, 477 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: and then like somebody close to you dies or something, 478 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: or you turn on the TV and you see something 479 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: horrible happening, like, if that doesn't destroy your faith, then 480 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that how aliens really could. I mean, 481 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: that's that's just my sort of take on it. I 482 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, yeah, that but but that's your one. 483 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: And that's just the thing about religion, tune. It's like, 484 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: even though they're certain doctrines that people follow, you still 485 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: have um people still interpreted you know, on an individual basis. Yeah, 486 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's called it's a worldview. It's a 487 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: personal worldview. It's this it's this bubble that each of us, 488 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: even if you you you know, buy it off the 489 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: shelf at the super mart along with everybody else, you're 490 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: still crap. It's still individual to you. It's it's like 491 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: to go back to doing. It's like that shield that 492 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: they the energy shield they have around themselves, and you 493 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: know it deflects laser blast. Yeah yeah, and you're still 494 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: funnel You're funneling it through your experience. So that's that's 495 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: whatever is going to come out on the other end 496 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: is what it's going to come out. What I thought 497 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: was interesting is um that This is from a Time 498 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: magazine article from nineteen sixty one, and it is titled Religion, 499 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: Space and Scripture. It says Christianity has existed through the 500 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: centuries on the assumption that man is the pinnacle of 501 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: God's creation. What happens, as Presbyterian theology Professor W. Burnett 502 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: East engineer, if it turns out that man is the 503 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: pinnacle of only one of God's many worlds. So yes, 504 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying. But but then there's this, 505 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: this this sticky part of it, Like what if NaSTA 506 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: called a press conference. They're like, guys, we've got we've 507 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: got some good news and bad news. The good news 508 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: is we've discovered extraterrestrial life. The bad news is they're 509 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: way hotter than us. It's just it's just like they're 510 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: just so much more handsome and and and their their 511 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: females are just so much more beautiful. It's like we 512 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: just feel like crab now yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, 513 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, who knows how how if if this discovery 514 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: comes upon us and Hell'll react to it. But I 515 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: thought this was interesting. This was from space dot com 516 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: uh in an article could extra terrestrial intelligence sway religious beliefs? 517 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: And they said, to see what affects the discovery of 518 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: extra um, let's just call it et intelligence might have 519 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: on religion. Theologian Ted Peters and his colleagues surveyed more 520 00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: than individuals worldwide from multiple religious traditions, including Catholicism, uh uh, 521 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: evangel Evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Mormons, Jews, but 522 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: in other non religious groups. They found the vast majority 523 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: of religious believers, regardless of religion, were overwhelmingly confident that 524 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: they wouldn't suffer a collapse in faith in the face 525 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: of evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence. In addition, roughly one third 526 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: of religious people thought that the faith of other religions 527 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: would be threatened, while two thirds of non religious people 528 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: thought that aliens would sway the faith of the religious 529 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: as a whole. So completely. Actually, what you're kind of 530 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: saying there, like your belief is your belief. Yeah, it's 531 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 1: kind of like this little fortress that we build up 532 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: against the realities of the world. Um. And I'm not 533 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: just religion but all, like we're all any kind of 534 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: belief system we take on ourselves, any kind of world view, 535 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,239 Speaker 1: even if it's totally non religious, Like, this is our 536 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: vision or reality, and it stands as a fortress against 537 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: actual reality, and we have to choose when to reinforce 538 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: it and when to just let the army come in. 539 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, And I still have this question, like, Okay, 540 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: you've got the large Hadron collider. Let's say that you 541 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: have of a completely like behemoth version of it fifty 542 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: two d years and uh, where they're able to you know, 543 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: with with this new like souped up large Hadron cludeer, 544 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: they're they're basically able to bear out the string theory 545 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: and in even the existence of multiple universes. And even 546 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: to the point in saying, okay, every action or in 547 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 1: action um is actually creating new actions and other universes. Okay, 548 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: So even that I think may not that discovery may 549 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: not change people's belief systems. Because and the reason I 550 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: think that's interesting is because, uh, you know what would 551 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: that mean to religion, which is, you know, sort of 552 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: a codified system of more predicated on an afterlife that's 553 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: determined by the deeds done in one single universe. You 554 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: know what is that that definitely excuse your perception of 555 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: of what we're doing here on Earth. Now. Yeah, well, 556 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: like to take one of the more I find, like, 557 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: I think this would be one of the things that 558 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: I would not pick up from the buffet if I 559 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: were building, you know, my own plate of of theology, 560 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,719 Speaker 1: like to say, take the doctrine of Hell, right, the 561 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: idea that in the early version of it, you can say, oh, well, 562 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: there's a fiery place in the center of the Earth 563 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: where they're devil's poking people's sticks, and then you can 564 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: sort of you can sort of explain it away a 565 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: little more and say, oh, well, it's more like another planet, 566 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: or maybe it's more like another dimension. You know. So 567 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: even in the advent of scientific um new scientific data 568 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: about the reality of the universe, we can sort of 569 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: tweak different police systems to make sense in the new universe. 570 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: You know. Well, and you know I'm always uh, even 571 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: when that when the thing you're tweaking is kind of, 572 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: you know, in my opinion, kind of horrible. I'm always 573 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: bringing up cognitive dissonance, right, and this is one of 574 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: those instances where that could certainly incite that. Right, Like, 575 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: if you've got this one piece of information that you 576 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: believe in this other piece of information that's a odds 577 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: it it's somehow you're probably gonna make it square even 578 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: if it's not square. Yeah, So, uh, this is an 579 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: interesting bit just talking about like our our need to 580 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: bring religion with us and need to bring world views 581 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: with us. There was a there's a great um philosopher, historian, 582 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: professor I think it is the University of Chicago by 583 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: the name of Merceda aliati Um, author of the myth 584 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: of the Eternal Return and all this is very big 585 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: into like how crafting of world views and how they 586 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: affect everything. Um. Well, he he wrote about this one 587 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: particular Australian Aboriginal myth and it concerned um, this tribe 588 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: that would that had this pole a right, this sacred pole, 589 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: and they would they would they would wander around all 590 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: over the place they had they were they were nomadic. 591 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: So but so they were never in one place for long, 592 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: but they would always have this pole with them. And uh, 593 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: these are the words of of of Mercedes Iliati Um. 594 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: He says that this pole represented a cosmic axis. For 595 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: it is around the sacred Pole that territory becomes habitable, 596 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: Hince becomes transformed into a world. The sacred pole, uh 597 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: plays an important role ritually during their wanderings. They always 598 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: carried with them and choose the direction they are to 599 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: take by the direction towards which it ends. And he 600 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: goes on from there, but then he adds, for the 601 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: poll to be broken denotes catastrophe. It is like the 602 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: quote end of the world unquote, a reversion to chaos. 603 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: So I find that basically they just if the if 604 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: the poll breaks, they lay down on the ground and 605 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: wait for death. Well, which is interesting because it all 606 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: goes back to the whole thought that we we as 607 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: humans need a center. Yeah, and for some people that's God, 608 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: but you know a system that holds it all together 609 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: because you know, you think of the word decentering, right, 610 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: you're off kilter, and a lot of people don't want 611 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: to live that way, you know. Um. So for for 612 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: for for many it says you know, whatever belief system 613 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: provides solace and balance and comfort. Um, that makes sense. 614 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: But I like, I love this pole example. Yeah. Yeah, 615 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: the idea because it's both encouraging but also kind of 616 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: dark because it's the idea. Yeah, we're gonna bring our 617 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: our poll with us and where it's gonna it's gonna 618 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: keep us sane wherever we go in the cosmos. But 619 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: then on the other hand, if the poll brakes were bumming, Yeah, 620 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: but the thing, here's the thing. The poll always breaks 621 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: at some point because there's entropy. The pool breaks in 622 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: our personal lives all the time, right, the poles fine, yeah, 623 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: or when the pole breaks, you just got two poles now, 624 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: you know nice? I like that. Um. I did want 625 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: to mention that just as a sort of recap about 626 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: the World Science Festival and this talk that Stephen Weinberg gave. 627 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: It was just kind of funny. There's a YouTube YouTube 628 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: clip of this. And after Weinberg talk, someone cornered Neil 629 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: deGrasse Tyson, who was in the audience, and he asked 630 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 1: Tyson if maybe Tyson would be open from as far 631 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: as I can tell, to suggesting to a senator that 632 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: we should fund science exploration and the large hydrant collider 633 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: and someone and so forth, and the attempt to get 634 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,719 Speaker 1: more funding and say that Jesus could exist on an 635 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: alternate universe that perhaps you'll deGrasse Tyson should further this 636 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: this agenda and again and you know, of course this 637 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: was this was a question that was posed in just 638 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: and um and Tyson was sort of horrified, but he 639 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: was a perfect gentleman um and just sort of said 640 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: no and walked away. But um, but again there's just 641 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: that's you know, that person was suggesting that because he 642 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: was saying, you know, if we can fit the sort 643 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: of worldview in here, then perhaps we could get the 644 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: funding and we could do more exploration. Um. So funny 645 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: clip if you look it up. I will have to 646 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: look that one on. Yeah. Well, hey, you know I 647 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: have one little bit of listener mail here. Let me 648 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: get too real quick a little bit and uh in 649 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: this actually these two are our listener mail from our 650 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: Facebook page, which is blow the Mind, the same as 651 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: our Twitter page Blow the Mind. And U they right. First, 652 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: Analeki rights no discussion on neo evolution because we just 653 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: had a podcast about are you ready for the neo evolution? 654 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 1: He is complete without mention of Gattica. For a movie 655 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: from seven, it is extremely prophetic a society in which everyone, 656 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: um that is important has the history of genetic tailoring. 657 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: The love child or accidental pregnancy is viewed as as 658 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: a liability to employers. Um uh, there's and goes on. 659 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff in I can't believe we 660 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: didn't bring up Gatica. Yeah, because yeah, I remember seeing it. 661 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: I remember it being a fun film. Yeah, I remember 662 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: being like, this is very interesting proposition because that you 663 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: know that the main character is blowed right and yet 664 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: is chosen for exploration, uh, even even though he's not perfect. Right, 665 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: So which sort of challenges is our ideas of trying 666 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: to tinker with our DNA to the extent that we 667 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: reached some sort of perfection. Yeah, and it's a great, 668 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: yeah you can do it kind of movie, you know. Yeah, 669 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: it is like you're perfect, you go for it. Yeah, 670 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: and there's some famous writer in that. There is a 671 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: famous writer in there. Yeah, like not Chomsky's not somebody 672 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: I don't recall. Somebody is in it, but I recall 673 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: Uma in her cheekbones. But yeah, you know, But anyway, 674 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: then Alakai adds, I love sci fi because it prepares 675 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: us for what may happen, and the idea is expressed 676 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: in this fifte year old movie may very well be 677 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: a reality sin So yeah, and then um Rick rights 678 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: then and says, responding to our our podcast on the 679 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: future of toilets. Right. So, for some sociologists, the best 680 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: measure of a culture civilization is the distance that can 681 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: maintain from its own excrement. For some ecologies, the best 682 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: measure of a culture civilization is the degree to which 683 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: it can recycle its own excrement. And for some individuals, 684 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: the best measure of a culture civilization is the excrements 685 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: availability to be put to further use. So, uh, and 686 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: I believe he's, uh, he's quoting something here. Um yeah, 687 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: I think he's quoting a book here. But anyway, Yeah, 688 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: that's that's actually a fascinating way of looking at it. 689 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: It's true we have, um for a long time, been 690 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: trying to put a disistrating ourselves in an exprement and 691 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: as actually even thinking about this book I have about 692 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: the history of shoes, and you can see these great 693 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: shoes that were in existence. I think some of them 694 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: were even like maybe ten eleventh century that are essentially 695 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 1: like huge platforms, which would make sense, like you want 696 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: to if you're going through the streets and the streets 697 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: are literally paved with excrement, if you could elevate yourself 698 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: from that, uh you know, perhaps not get your your 699 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: clothing in the muck. Even better, So like high heels 700 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: are basically saying my neighborhood is nasty because I have 701 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: to just wade through it. Yeah. Um, well, hey, you 702 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: know it's like, like I said, Facebook, Twitter blow the 703 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: mind of both of those. I'd love to hear anybody's 704 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: thoughts about the future of religion, where it's going, where 705 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: it should go. Another area that we didn't even get 706 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: into is if you had to design a religion to 707 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: work in space, what would it be? Because on one hand, 708 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: I like to think of the whole like David Eagleman, 709 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: possibility and kind of thing where it's like keeping your 710 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: mind open to also these new ideas. And then I 711 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: love the idea of a theological buffet when you pick 712 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: and choose the things that are beneficial uh to to yourself, 713 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: which I think we all do to eliminated extent anyway. 714 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: But then I was talking to um this guy know who, Yeah, 715 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: he actually yeah, he works on the Eve games, Eve 716 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: Online games. But his argument was, well, if you were 717 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: designing a religion for space, there's not a lot of 718 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: room for error in space travel, so you would want 719 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: to have a really strict, dogmatic religion to make sure 720 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: everybody's doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing on 721 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: these different space flights. Well, that would become the religion. 722 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: Right at noon, we we gather some data and we 723 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,879 Speaker 1: do it internal. Next with saganism once again, what if 724 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: we can kind of promote that threat of office and 725 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: see if it just takes like hand out pamphlet. Yeah, 726 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: we should do like chick like a chick pamphlet about it? 727 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: All right? Well, yeah, let us let us know if 728 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: you're willing to wear germ nuts in the name of science. Uh, 729 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: and just go ahead and drop us a line at 730 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com. Be 731 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from 732 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore 733 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.