1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: And I think in some ways the sharing of lip 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: glass is akin to girls sharing secrets, like there's something 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: sweet about it, even though you, Susie, may think that 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: is also repulsive. 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: I'm Jessica Bennett and I'm Susie Bannakam. 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: And this is in retrospect, where each week we revisit 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: a cultural moment that shaped. 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 2: Us and that we just can't stop thinking about. 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: Most of the time we're digging deep into moments or 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: artifacts from the past, but today I thought we could 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: talk about something that applies to. 12 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 3: Both past and present. 13 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: That is the extremely journalistic and. 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: Very hard hitting subject of lip glass. 15 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: So, Susie, I recently found myself in the bathroom of 16 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: a high school girlfriend in Seattle, and I was instinctively 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: rummaging through her medicine cabinet. 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: But you instinctively rude. 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 4: I'm going to just make a note of that for 20 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 4: when you're I needed lip gloss. 21 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: You were just gonna take her lip gloss and use it. 22 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 3: Yes, Oh my god, I have a lot of fun. 23 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: So I just went, you know, it's like we've been 24 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: sharing lip glass since we were teenagers. So I was like, 25 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, she may be like a mother of three 26 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: now and an adult person and a. 27 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 5: Very successful lawyer. But like, she's got to have some 28 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 5: lift glass. 29 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: In her medicine cabinet, and so I went in there 30 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: searching for it, and then there was a moment when 31 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: I did stop. 32 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: She say, wait, is this is this weird? 33 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 4: I have like a touch of the OCD, as you're aware, 34 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 4: which means that I'm a little germophobic. So I don't 35 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 4: share lip gloss because I don't want to have something 36 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 4: like on my lips that someone else. 37 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: Has had on their lips. 38 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 4: Did you, let's just be honest for a second, were 39 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 4: you looking for anything else in the medicine cabinet, because 40 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 4: there are people who are just like snoops who look 41 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 4: in the medicine cabinet. 42 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: Just I mean, she's one of my best friends, Like 43 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: I know it's in her medicine. I think it was 44 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: like I felt comfortable enough yeah, because she's one of 45 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: my best friends to be like, yeah, obviously I'm gonna 46 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: yeah or like. 47 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 4: Like take a tilet all if you need it or 48 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 4: whatever that exactly. Then I think it's kosher. 49 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: Okay, thank you. 50 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: But it got me thinking about well, lip gloss and 51 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: also about friendship because to me in that bathroom, needing 52 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: some glass from my lips, and also knowing this is 53 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: one of my best friends since childhood. Those two things 54 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: were kind of intrinsically linked. 55 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. 56 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 4: I think makeup for me in general, is something that 57 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 4: really makes me think of female friendship. Like I just 58 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 4: remember in college getting ready together, or like I did 59 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 4: my sister's makeup for her wedding, So it's like this 60 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 4: very like intimate moment. 61 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: When you put makeup on someone else's face. 62 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 4: So I think lip gloss is like a representation of 63 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 4: that kind of larger phenomenon, which is that makeup is 64 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 4: a thing girls do with each other from a very 65 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 4: young age, Like it's sleepovers. Even before you're wearing makeup 66 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 4: in public, you're playing with makeup. 67 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: I just have been thinking about this a lot begare 68 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: because we all have these kind of funny rituals, a 69 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: lot of them that probably happen in our youth, that 70 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: establish closeness, They show intimacy, They are like bonding exercises. 71 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 3: And I think for me anyway. 72 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: Sharing lift gloss like I did with that friend whose 73 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: bathroom I found myself in, was one of these rituals 74 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: to establish closeness. It was a bonding exercise of our era. 75 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think also one thing that needs to 76 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 4: be said is that lift gloss was a cultural artifact 77 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 4: of the eighties and nineties. As you said when we 78 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 4: started this show, it's like I have a very vivid 79 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 4: recollection of those lang Comb juicy tubes, you. 80 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: Know in the smell, and those are for the fancy. 81 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: I had one of those, So I guess I was. 82 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: Ay, that's actually interesting. You should raise that because I 83 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: was gonna take us through a little bit of the 84 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: hierarchy of chapstick and less, and then because it's almost 85 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: like you could organize the chirety of middle and high 86 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: school girls based on their chapstick. 87 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 88 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 4: It's actually sort of similar to how you could kind 89 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 4: of put smokers in categories. 90 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever smoked cigarettes, but I did. 91 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 4: And like, if you were an American spirit girl, that 92 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 4: meant something different than if you were a Marble lights girl. 93 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: What did your lip glass say? 94 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so what did your loop glass say about you? 95 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: So let me just talk through some tears here. 96 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: First. 97 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: There's like the kind so lipsmackers. Yeah, lipsmackers are still popular. 98 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: They were invented in the nineteen seventies, but they were 99 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: super popular in the eighties. 100 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 3: You could get like. 101 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: The small ones that you put in your pocket, or 102 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: you could get these really big ones that were often 103 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: attached around a string round. 104 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: I remember those. 105 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, Lipsmackers were almost like a gateway drug. Under rib gloss, 106 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: you could get flavors, and they had amazing flavors. Coca Cola, 107 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: Doctor pepper was my favorite cherry. 108 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 3: And they would give a little tint to your lip, yes, 109 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: but it wasn't full fledged makeup. 110 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 111 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 4: So I think part of this is kind of around 112 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 4: what your parents' rules were, right, Like I was allowed 113 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 4: to buy Lipsmackers or like chapstick and stuff at the 114 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 4: drug store before I was allowed to wear makeup, right. 115 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: And that was the big difference between Lipsmacker goals who 116 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: got their makeup at the drug store and Juicy Tube 117 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: gals who had to go to the departments. Yeah, which 118 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: is why I was like, oh, so you were fancy, 119 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: because I remember saving up for Juicy Tube and going 120 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: to the mall in the North Stoum or whatever and 121 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: having to go to that counter. And I can still 122 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: taste the smell of that water melon juicy tube. 123 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: I mean they actually did smell and taste amazing. 124 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 4: Oh, I mean I remember them as smelling and tasting 125 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 4: amazing too. I wonder if I would feel that way now, 126 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 4: just because I think we met. 127 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: I feel like I found an old one recently, because 128 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: that was the other thing too, Like lip glass doesn't 129 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: go bad, I don't think. 130 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 4: Well, so this is an interesting thing about makeup in general. 131 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 4: It does actually technically go back. There's us to throw 132 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 4: away makeup so much more often than I do. So 133 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 4: as someone who's just mentioned that I have German issues, 134 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 4: it's probably not a great sign that I probably do 135 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 4: have some lip glasses that I've had for too long. 136 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: I mean I've found some in my parents' house from 137 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: actual middle school. There was a soft Lips that is 138 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: still in my parents recently. Those ones camp They were 139 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: like the Caprice cigarette. They were really, really and cheek. 140 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 3: Say goodbye to waxy, greasy lips, introducing soft lips. 141 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: But okay, wait, I want to finish taking it through 142 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: the other higher hierarchies. So I was on acutane, which 143 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: was that acting medication that so many people are. It's 144 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: like part of the reason I have all sorts of 145 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: stomach issues. 146 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 3: It turned out to be very bad but beautiful skid, 147 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: thank you. 148 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: It made your face and your lips really dry, so 149 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: Lipsmackers was not cutting it. 150 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 3: So I also had to have CarMax. 151 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: Oh, I was just going to ask if you ever 152 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: used carbax, And so carmacs came in the tub. 153 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a little tub with a yellow and. 154 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: Your finger in it and so like sharing that probably 155 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: equally gross, honestly, but a friend wasn't touching it to 156 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: their lips. 157 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I still was okay with. 158 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: That, but so okay, so they were like Carmacks people 159 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: who had actually chapped, Like but. 160 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 4: Do you remember also that then people started to tell 161 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 4: us that, like Carmacks actually was addicted to it, like 162 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 4: there was something in it that your lips to sue 163 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 4: or was that just honestly, I can't imagine, but it 164 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 4: was like literally like it was making your lips more trapped, 165 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 4: so you were like addicted to it. And then there 166 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 4: was blistecks, which was like a similar kind of thing. 167 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was always the warning. But then if 168 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: you wanted to have some tint to your lips, you 169 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: always had a Lipsmacker with you, and then later Lipsmacker 170 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: also created these rollie ball ones where it had like 171 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: one of those little balls in the end, and those 172 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: are a littletier glossy, yeah glossier, And so then there 173 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: were the actual variations of lip gloss which were stickier, 174 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: more glossy, shinier. When I was in high school, the 175 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: Philosophy brand vanilla birthday cake one. 176 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: Was what we all used. 177 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: It came and that like it was like a sparkly 178 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: yellowish tint and it smelled like actual birthday cake, which 179 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: is so nauseating to even think about. 180 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 4: Like I remember, Glass makes a birthday cake flavor now 181 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 4: of their lip gloss. 182 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: And the thing with that one that I distinctly remember 183 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: is it was so sticky, which for my really chapped 184 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: acuitane lips was actually good, Like you wanted to stick 185 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: on your lips all day, maybe sometimes more effective actually 186 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: than gas. But I would drive to school and I 187 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: would get out of the car and then I would 188 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: be walking to the front door, and it would be windy, 189 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: and all of the grime in the air would and 190 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: the hair would stick to your lips, and so you 191 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: would walk in to class and you would see your 192 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: friend and you'd be like trying to get the grime 193 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: out of your lips because you'd have this like disgustingly 194 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: sticky lip gloss. 195 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 2: So I never. 196 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 4: Used that in particular, but I used mac lip glass. 197 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: Do you remember that? That was like another sort of 198 00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: like in the Juicy Tubes. 199 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 4: It wasn't as popular as Juicy tubes, but in New 200 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 4: York at least, it was like very popular for a time, okay, 201 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 4: And that stuff was like literally like putting glue on 202 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 4: your lips and then you would just have like hair 203 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 4: stuck to your lips all day, but it gave you 204 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 4: a really high sheet well. 205 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: And then later on this was before the age of Sephora, 206 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: So then later on Sephora came around and you could 207 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: get do you remember lip venom, which was it? And 208 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: so it was like putting cinnamon straight on your lips 209 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: and it was supposed to plump your lips, like pre 210 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: the age of filler. 211 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 4: So lip plumpers apparently are like having a comeback. Like 212 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 4: lip pumpers were very popular when I was I think 213 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 4: in my early twenties, and I actually kind of love 214 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 4: that feeling, like it makes your lips feel like stung 215 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 4: almost and. 216 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: Some people really hate that. I love that feeling. 217 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 4: So I bought a limp pumper again recently and I've 218 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 4: been using it and I just was reminded by how 219 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 4: much I enjoy that tangle. 220 00:09:49,480 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, Okay, so that's the taxonomy of types. 221 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm probably forgetting sun. 222 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 4: Well, you didn't mention one of my favorites, which was 223 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: when chapsticks started adding flavors and colors. So for a 224 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 4: long time, trapstick was just like one plane chapstick. But 225 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 4: I think partially because of the rise of lipsmackers and 226 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 4: all those things, although I mean, I'm not one hundred 227 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 4: percent shore, so. 228 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 2: Maybe someone should fact check us. But they started to add. 229 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 4: Colors and like flavors to trapstick, which is like where 230 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 4: we get the Katie Perry song I kissed a girl 231 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 4: and I like. 232 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 1: It, and she mentioned the cherry of her cherry chapstick, 233 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: which we can all I think remember the scent, yeah, 234 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: or the flavor. 235 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 2: Yeah. 236 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: Then there was this taxonomy of who your friends were 237 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: based on your Trapstick habits with them, your Chared chapstick habits, 238 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: and I almost feel like there were friendship tears based 239 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: on lip glass habits. Oh, okay, your best friends. This 240 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: is my high school girlfriend like best friends. 241 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 3: These were the people you'd share your lift class with tube. 242 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: To mouth finger in like however you wanted to do it. 243 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: You are sharing your live class with them. They were 244 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: your real friends. You knew their signature scent. 245 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: That's so funny, they knew yours. 246 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: Maybe you would swap sometimes, but this was a known thing. 247 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 3: It was like being in the inner circle. 248 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: So we didn't have this. 249 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 4: This is so interesting to hear like someone else's kind 250 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 4: of like middle school and. 251 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: High school rituals. Because I don't have this. 252 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm, as you know, obsessed with makeup, Like 253 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 4: I have way more than I need and actually interestingly 254 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 4: than I wear. Like I don't think if you just 255 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 4: hung out with me, you would automatically be like, this 256 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 4: is someone who loves makeup. Yeah, but I don't have 257 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 4: a lot of memories around this kind of sharing, Like 258 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 4: I definitely have memories around makeup in general. But it's 259 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 4: interesting that for you there was like this real like 260 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 4: relationship with lip gloss that indicated also your relationship to. 261 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: Your friendssolutely and and so then there were you know, 262 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: the cool, popular girls who didn't share lip glass with 263 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: but you kind of wished that. 264 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 2: You did, and they all had the fancy stuff. 265 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: And they probably all had the fancy stuff, or you know, 266 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: just so many like people would come to school with 267 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: baggies full of every flavor of Flipsmacker or whatever it 268 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: might be, or the ones that you put her on 269 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: your neck where you'd have multiple flavors. And then there 270 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: was always, I think in every friend group, like the 271 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: one friend that probably was sort of on the outside, 272 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: and she always wanted to share the lip gloss kind 273 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: of annoyingly, and you didn't really want to share with her, 274 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: and then you would do it reluctantly and then like 275 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: talk shit about her, Sorry for this poor girl, I know, 276 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: and you'd like, you know, dramatically wipe the or the 277 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: top off. 278 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 4: I was probably the one dramatically like wiping in well 279 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 4: for everyone. 280 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 3: Yes, for everyone. 281 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: And I mean the other thing too, is this was 282 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: the era of like cold sores, so you are also 283 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: pretty conscious I think of like what people's mouths were 284 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: looking like when they asked to use your lip glass. 285 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 4: So I have a point of clarification something I need 286 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 4: to ask, which is was there an era of cold soores, Like, 287 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 4: are we out of the cold store? 288 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: Ara, Like, I think people still get cold soores? 289 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: Right, Well, but in middle school, wasn't everyone like kissing 290 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: for the first time, And like, I don't know, I. 291 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: See what you're saying. 292 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 4: I think it was the first time you became aware 293 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 4: of cold stores as a thing, because you are. 294 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: Do you know anyone like that's like full blown, Like 295 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people in middle in 296 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: high school, they would come to school and maybe this 297 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: is also a relic of a time I need'd be like, hmm, some. 298 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: And so has got one on their lip. 299 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's because we've aged out of like 300 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 4: making out with a lot of people. 301 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 3: Maybe, you know what I mean. 302 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 4: It's like, Okay, I'm definitely not making out with like 303 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 4: as many people as I might have at certain point. 304 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: There's you're doing others stuff like yeah, you're middle school's age, 305 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: when you were just spending a lot of time kissing. 306 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 3: I mean there was a lot I. 307 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 4: Would say for the record that I was not spending 308 00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 4: a lot of time kissing in middle school. 309 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 2: I did a little kissing. Even you might have been 310 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: more popular with the boys. 311 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: Well, but even in high school, I mean if it 312 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: was before you were having sex, there just would be 313 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: more kissing at all, because what you know, right, yes, 314 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean like prolonged time with mouth to mouth contact. 315 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, that's an image. 316 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: That's an image anyway. 317 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: So I so that was another thing that you were 318 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: conscious of. 319 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 3: In terms of sharing lip glass. 320 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: There was always a friend and maybe this was sometimes me, 321 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: where like they would fish out their glass and there 322 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: would be like crumbs stuck around, you know, and you 323 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: kind of knew, you learned who those people were. I mean, 324 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: for what's I don't think we were conscious of all 325 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: this at the time, but now thinking back to it, 326 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, you totally knew who the person with 327 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: the clift gross with the crumbs in it was. You 328 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: didn't ask to use theirs and all of it. Just 329 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: there was like a girl code too. 330 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 331 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 4: I mean that's what I'm thinking about a lot while 332 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 4: you're talking, Like, what's interesting to me about this is 333 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 4: this idea that there is sort of just like these 334 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 4: unspoken rituals and language among girls, and I think they're 335 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 4: all very identifiable. Like, even though I did not have 336 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 4: this particular relationship to lip gloss, you had when you 337 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 4: explain the hierarchy, or you talk about that friend, I 338 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 4: automatically can picture exactly who you mean, right. And there's 339 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 4: lots of little ways in which girls have indicators for 340 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 4: each other, Like you know, part of what you're doing 341 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 4: in middle school is figuring out who you are and 342 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 4: how you fit in and how everyone else fits in. 343 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 4: So there are these little ways in which you categorize people, 344 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 4: like you're like, that's that kind of girl, and I'm 345 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 4: this kind of girl, and what does that mean? So 346 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 4: it's just interesting, like I'm trying to think of other 347 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 4: things that would fall into this category. 348 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I do think makeup is really intimate 349 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: and this is sort of the era before because you're 350 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: not wearing full fledged makeup in middle school. 351 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 352 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 4: No, I wasn't allowed to wear makeup. And I think 353 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 4: that's another reason why lip gloss was so appealing to me, 354 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 4: because I was still allowed to buy it, but I 355 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 4: wasn't allowed to wear makeup. So I would go to 356 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 4: school and I would go to the bathroom and like 357 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 4: put on my lip gloss. 358 00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: And I think I had like a little bit of 359 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: other contraband I was using, like makeup contraband. 360 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 4: Maybe mascare I can't even remember, but I remember we 361 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 4: would all be lined out in the mirror in the 362 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 4: bathroom at Stanley Middle School in Lafia, California, and there'd 363 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 4: just be like a row of us and we'd be 364 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 4: like teasing our hair because I don't you might not 365 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 4: have had this, but I was the era where you 366 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 4: just spiked your bangs, like you just like put hairspray 367 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 4: just in it's like one patch of hair. 368 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: I don't know why we thought this. 369 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 4: Was an attractive vite. Also, that was air where you 370 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 4: would do just one earring, like the one like cubic 371 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 4: is their conia earring. 372 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: That was like a very cool thing to do. 373 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 4: I remember they did like a whole episode of Family 374 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 4: Ties about how one of the daughters did that really 375 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 4: because she was like trying to be cool, so she 376 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 4: was like, I have one earring on. 377 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 378 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 4: So there were these things that you know, made you 379 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 4: part of the inn group. 380 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, all the women and even today. 381 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: So you'll go to an event, You'll be in the bathroom, 382 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: there's another woman next to you applying lipstick, and there's 383 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: a bit of a shared extra. 384 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: There's a moment. 385 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of bondish. And the other thing is 386 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: I think because this makes me think of something, which 387 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: is because this was pre lipstick. Like lipstick, you need 388 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: a mirror to apply to your face. For the most part, 389 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: there is a very specific in between type of lipstick 390 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: clip glass, which is Clinique black Honey. 391 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: Oh I love black honey, which I. 392 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: Believe you do not need a mirror to put it, 393 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: like a very hair hint. 394 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 3: This was wildly popular in the nineties. 395 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: Now it's popular on TikTok again because everything is back. 396 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: But with all of these things, you could kind of 397 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: stand in a group and apply them together, like there 398 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: was a communalness to it because you didn't need to 399 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: individually go look in a mirror. You could just sit 400 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: there and apply your lip glass while you were talking 401 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: about like last night's episode of Dawson's Creek or whatever. 402 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: And you could do it in any place, so you 403 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: could do it like in the back of the school 404 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: bus on your way to school. You could do it 405 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: during first period. You could do it during lune, like 406 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: on the soccer field. I remember taking breaks to go 407 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: apply chapstick. 408 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 4: Well, I think also wearing lipstick indicated again it was 409 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 4: sort of like a marker of being a different. 410 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: Kind of girl. 411 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 4: Like I never really wore lipstick in the traditional sense 412 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 4: until probably after high school, probably, And I think like 413 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 4: a girl who was wearing like a bright red lip 414 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 4: in middle school was telling you something about like was 415 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 4: either really fashionable or was making some kind of statement, 416 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 4: like lipstick felt like a strong choice, whereas. 417 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone was wearing lipstick in my I 418 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: can't remember any I mean, also, it wasn't. 419 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: As popular then like dark. 420 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: Well, I guess we were a little bit different eras 421 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: like goth eish. 422 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess if you were into goth. 423 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 3: Yes, But nobody was doing a red lip back then. 424 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, like the Taylor Smith red lip that didn't yet 425 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 4: I don't think so, I just call her Taylor Smith. 426 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 4: I think I just wanted to be clear that, I mean, 427 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 4: Taylor's the wift God. 428 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 2: What is happening to my bread? 429 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 5: So? 430 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: Okay? 431 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: In going down this rabbit hole of all these different 432 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: intricacies and minutia and nuanced to lift Glass, I looked 433 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: up some pop culture references because. 434 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: Almost I love a pop culture reference, and you know, so. 435 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: Many of the films and shows from this era reference 436 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: Lift Glass in some way. It's usually not a focal 437 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: point of the plot, but like there's always a live 438 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: glass moment. 439 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so Penn fifteen. I don't know if you I watched. 440 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: Ale episodes, but I'm not like a diehard. It's so 441 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: many of my friends. 442 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 3: It's such a good show. 443 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: And if people haven't watched, the creators play themselves as teenagers, 444 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: so they're like women in their thirties playing teenagers. 445 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: How do I look at you look so good? Yes? 446 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: You do, like so good. 447 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: It's just like And there's an amazing scene in one 448 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: of the stars of the episodes where it's kind of 449 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: panning to the different groups at school on the first 450 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: day of school, and it's middle school and there's like 451 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: the group who's all applying their lip gloss and and 452 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: lip smack of perslowly. 453 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 4: My god, honey, I was totally best friends with Heather 454 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 4: now your god. 455 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: It's true, and that very much was like the vibe 456 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: in my middle school. Cameron Diaz in The Sweetest Thing? 457 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: Do you remember that movie? 458 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 2: Did you? 459 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 4: I mean, I vaguely remember that movie. I think I 460 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 4: did see it when it came out, but I haven't 461 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 4: seen it since. 462 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: Well, so it's kind of this rom com and she 463 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: and Christina Applegate are close friends, and there's this scene 464 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: where they're driving in the car and Christina Applegate's character 465 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: has dropped her lip gloss onto the floor and Cameron 466 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: Diaz is going to pick it up and she's sort 467 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: of like bobbing as she's doing so, and there's like 468 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: some gross guy on a Harley driving by who just 469 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: sees her head bobbing up and down and like gives 470 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: them a thumbs up, like you. 471 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: But you know, kind of funny, kay, I found it. 472 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: Jesus almost got smothered down there. There's also a scene 473 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 3: in Me and Girls. 474 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: I don't know if you'll remember this, but this is 475 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: after they've performed at the school commer or whatever. 476 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, they do the like Christmas dance, the Chrystmas. 477 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: Dance and Regina George, her boyfriend's trying to kiss her 478 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: and she stops him and she's like lip. 479 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 3: Glass the gus that ever lip class, which fair. 480 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like, do not mess this up, do 481 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: not smear it all over my face. This stuff is sticky, 482 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: it will get everywhere. So that was really funny. And 483 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: then a more recent show, Euphoria, there is a scene 484 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: when Maddie is putting lip glass on Lexi, and it 485 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: felt very kind of share and tie to me in 486 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 1: that there it's this intimate moment they're doing each other's makeup. 487 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: She's telling her that ninety percent of life is confidence. 488 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 2: They see, yeah, of life confidence. The thing about confidence 489 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: is no one knows if it's real or not. 490 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 3: You know, maybe that's true. And some of that also 491 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 3: is connected to the flip glass. 492 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 4: Well, there's also two things in Breakfast Club that I 493 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 4: remember having to do with lipgloss. One is the scene 494 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 4: where the Ali Sety character is having like the makeover, 495 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 4: and so Molly Ringwald is like doing her makeup, and 496 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 4: I think the last thing is she's like, you know, 497 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 4: she does her lipstick or her masscara. But also I 498 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 4: don't know if you remember this, but there's this thing 499 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 4: where they're talking about like what special skills they have, 500 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 4: and Molly Ringold puts her like twos into her boobs 501 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 4: and then she can like put it on like with 502 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 4: a hands freeze. 503 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: Yes, can't fully actually doing this, and they really give 504 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: her a hard time about it. My image of you 505 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: is totally blown. 506 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 4: It's kind of this thing where she's considered this princess character, 507 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 4: and the way in which they're indicating that is her 508 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 4: relationship to makeup and lipstick and lip gloss, which I 509 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 4: think sort of gets again to this idea that we 510 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 4: kind of categorize girls as like the things they're into, 511 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 4: so like, if you're in to make up, it means something, 512 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 4: which is sort of interesting because I feel like I 513 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 4: was kind of a nerdy, bookish girl, like I collected stamps. 514 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 4: I was like, I was not some like princess, but 515 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 4: I just loved makeup. And I think there's this like 516 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 4: kind of interesting way in which we'd put girls into categories, 517 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 4: but they don't really hold right, Like we can be 518 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 4: all sorts of things. But in that era, you know, 519 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 4: you were making a statement if you were into a 520 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 4: certain thing versus another. 521 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think that was true of almost 522 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: which kind of chance we're backpack you were wearing. 523 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 2: I definitely did not have a chance we're back at 524 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 2: I mean. 525 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 4: It's worth mentioning here that I went to boarding school 526 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 4: in New England, so a lot of things that were 527 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 4: traditional rights of passage or kids in America just don't 528 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 4: really apply. 529 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 2: To boarding school. So I think some of these things. 530 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 4: No, I went from ninth grade to you know, like 531 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 4: I did it for all of high school. But like, 532 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 4: for example, we didn't have prom, we didn't have cheerleaders, 533 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 4: and also we didn't have I have a lot of 534 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 4: the things that would make girls popular in other schools. 535 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 4: Like the thing that was really revered was this like 536 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 4: very specific New England look, very natural, blonde girl next. 537 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 2: Door plays field hockey. 538 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 4: That's not I think what like the popular girl archetype 539 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 4: is based on all the high school movies I've seen, 540 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 4: So we just had less slightly different, Like I wore 541 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 4: less makeup I think in high school than I probably 542 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 4: wore in middle school, which I think is very uncommon. 543 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 4: So that's especially why some of this stuff doesn't resonate 544 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 4: for me in the same way. 545 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: I mean, really, what this is about to me at 546 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: the core is something you mentioned at the top, which 547 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: is makeup is intimate and girls And this is true 548 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: of research, this has been documented. But girls find interesting 549 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: ways to bond when they're growing up, Like telling secrets 550 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: is a really important way that girls bond when they're 551 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: in elementary and middle school, and. 552 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 3: For boys it's really different. 553 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: They're often playing there's like more action associated less talking, 554 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: but telling someone a secret indicates that you are close. Yeah, 555 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: and I think in some ways the sharing of lip 556 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: glass is akin to girls sharing secrets, Like there's something 557 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: sweet about it, even though you, Susie, may think that 558 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: it is also repulsive. 559 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that I was as insane as 560 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 4: I am now about the germ thing back then, because 561 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 4: I also like, don't share drinks, which I think people 562 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 4: find odd. But I will say that I also think 563 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 4: a big part of this language was sleepovers. 564 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: Did you do a lot of sleepovers? 565 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 4: I had this best friend in middle school who I've 566 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 4: stayed friends with and who was just like a really 567 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 4: important part of my. 568 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: Life, and she would sleep over. 569 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 4: We would sleep over to each other's houses, like almost 570 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 4: every night of the week. 571 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 2: We just switched from house. 572 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 3: To house, even on weeknights. 573 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, because we didn't have a lot of rules either 574 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 4: of us. Our parents were pretty lax, so we would 575 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 4: literally spend weeks at a time together. 576 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 2: Oh wow, And that was also part of this. 577 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,239 Speaker 4: Way in which you indicated that someone was your best friend, Right, 578 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 4: It's like how much time you spent with them Because 579 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 4: we didn't have social media, so you know, like that 580 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 4: amount of time spent with someone was just like time 581 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 4: with them, you weren't like doing a million other things 582 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 4: right together. 583 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: So there's this linguist that I love. And I was 584 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: looking back at a couple of her books because I 585 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: thought they might apply to this. Her name is Deborah Tannan, 586 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: and she's written a number of books about the sexes 587 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: and linguistic differences. And she also wrote a book called 588 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: The Power of Talk. She's a professor, and she also 589 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: wrote a book specifically about the language of women's friendships 590 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: called You're the Only One I Can Tell. And so 591 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: I was paging through trying to get some context for Lipglass, 592 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: and I was emailing with her as well. And so 593 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: the way she describes how girls communicate and bond is that, 594 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: like we said, they tend to share secrets. They often 595 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: play with a single best friend or in small groups, 596 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: and they really spend a lot of time talking, like 597 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: they use language to negotiate how close they are. And 598 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: as she puts it in the book, the girl you 599 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: tell your secrets to can become your best friend. So 600 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: I almost see lip gloss as analogous in some way 601 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: to sharing secrets like you do it in an into 602 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: at space. Often it's in a bedroom or in a bathroom. 603 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: It I think has the power. 604 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: To you know, I'm maybe taking this a little bit 605 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: too seriously, but like also with the grain of salt, 606 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: like it can be intimacy, it can reinforce closeness that 607 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: I think is central to the lives of girls. 608 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 4: You know. It's making me think also of the other 609 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 4: thing you share that sort of in this category is clothes, right, 610 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 4: Like I remember in college getting ready with my friends 611 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 4: and sharing skirts and tops, and that was another way 612 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 4: in which you indicated like this was a close friend. 613 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 4: That was like the line, right if some random girl 614 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 4: in your dorm came in and was like, what I 615 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 4: borrow this, you'd be like, no. 616 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: Though there always was someone who wanted to buy out 617 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: that was not a cur that's brand too. 618 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, or like your jewelry like we would your jewelry. 619 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 4: So they are all these things that you indicate closeness 620 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 4: by sharing with another person. 621 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: And the one other thing I. 622 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 4: Thought of when you were saying that is that we 623 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 4: talked on the phone a lot, which isn't a thing now, 624 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 4: but like when we were growing up, you know, one 625 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 4: way in which you were like this is a close 626 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 4: friend is they called you on the literal phone, like 627 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 4: your house phone, and then you would just like stay 628 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 4: up for hours. I don't know what we talked about 629 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 4: for so long. 630 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: Well, sometimes you weren't even taught, Like there would just 631 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: be long silences where you'd be, like, I just remember doing. 632 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 3: Other things, like you would be like lying. 633 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: On the floor on the carpet of your bedroom with 634 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: your phone to your heat, just sort of living on 635 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: the phone with another. 636 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, like sometimes you play songs for each other, or 637 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 4: you'd watch TV together. And I was wondering, you know, 638 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 4: you did this thing for the Times about being thirteen, 639 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 4: and I'm curious because they don't obviously talk on the phone. 640 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: I'm sure they would think that was crazy. 641 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, so what are the ways in which they are sharing? 642 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 2: Like are they also sharing lip gloss? Still? Is that 643 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: still a thing? Yeah? 644 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: Actually, that's funny. So the piece it was this big 645 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: interactive project it's called Being thirteen, and I followed three 646 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: thirteen year old girls throughout the course of their eighth 647 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: grade year to try to understand what life is like 648 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: to be thirteen with a cell phone at a time 649 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: when girls self esteem tends to really be under threat, 650 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: and so I wanted to see the intersection of that. 651 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: So there were many findings, but they absolutely share lip glass. 652 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: It's actually funny. When we were thinking about this, I 653 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: texted one of them to be. 654 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 3: Like, do you guys still share it? And she was like, oh, 655 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 3: of course yes. 656 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: And in fact, I went back to some of the 657 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: girls kept diaries for me, and they also shared voice 658 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: memos about their days. 659 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 3: So I went back to some. 660 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: Of my notes and there was a whole passage about 661 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: she and her best friend sharing their lip glasses. I 662 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: think they were more like chapsticks or lip smackers, and 663 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: they each had a signature sent one was cocoa, one 664 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: was lavender, and they knew that about each other. And 665 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: so yeah, I think it absolutely slapens. I mean there's, 666 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: of course, the ways that people bond are different. Now, yeah, 667 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: they're not talking on the phone, But I do think 668 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: these little moments of closeness can be a central ritual 669 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: of growing up female. 670 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 4: That's really kind of heartworming in a way that it 671 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 4: sort of transcends time that girls today still have some 672 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 4: of the same rituals we did. That's really what I 673 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 4: loved about that piece is that I expected to feel 674 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 4: like their lives were so different from mine in middle school, 675 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 4: but I could relate to each of them so much, 676 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 4: like so many of the issues are the same, sometimes 677 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 4: the way in which they play out are different because 678 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 4: they're happening online. But you know, being a middle school 679 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 4: girl is so evocative of a very specific feeling, and 680 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 4: we all know what that feeling is. 681 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: The minute you say. 682 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: That, I know it's I mean, I can channel my 683 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: thirteen year old's self pretty clearly, and I don't remember anything, 684 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: like my memory is terrible, but that year, like seventh 685 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: eighth grade of middle school, I remember so vividly, I 686 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: think because your feelings are just so intense. 687 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 3: And that's not you know, that's estrogen. 688 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: That's why moons Like that is a fundamental fact of 689 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: being that. 690 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 3: Age as a girl. 691 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, for these girls, it was fascinating to see 692 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: them go through many of those same things, like trying 693 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: to figure out who you are, trying on different identities, 694 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: figuring out your place in the social hierarchy, whether that 695 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: is related to lip glass or not. Yeah, puberty, boys, girls, friendships, 696 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: all of it against the backdrop of having this phone 697 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: that makes everything feel like you have an audience at 698 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: all times. 699 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad to hear that there are still some 700 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 4: physical things that connect girls, and I feel like we 701 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 4: can leave it there and hopefully everyone who's listening can 702 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 4: think back to their favorite lip gloss and scent and 703 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 4: this will have taken them down like sort of a 704 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 4: nice memory hole. Although you know, middle school is rough, 705 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 4: so if it's bringing up sad things for you, go 706 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 4: find a new lip gloss to change. 707 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 2: Your life with. 708 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 3: Susie. We have a really great episode next week, a 709 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 3: two parter. Can you tell us about it? 710 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 4: Yes, we are talking about a college women's basketball team 711 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 4: that was dragged into a national political debate about racism. 712 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 4: After shockjock Don Ims called them an offensive slur and 713 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 4: we have two really great guests, Essence Carson, who is 714 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 4: a WNBA superstar, and Jamel Hill, who is an acclaimed 715 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 4: sports journalist. 716 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 6: I just really felt for those young people because they 717 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 6: had achieved something really, really spectacular, and it just felt 718 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 6: like the moment was stolen from them. 719 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: This is in retrospect. Thanks for listening. 720 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 4: Is there a pop culture moment you can't stop thinking 721 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 4: about and want us to explore in a future episode? 722 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 4: Email us at Inretropod at gmail dot com or find 723 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 4: us on Instagram at in retropod. 724 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 5: If you love this podcast, please rate and review us 725 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 5: on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. If you 726 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 5: hate it, you can post nasty comments on our Instagram, 727 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 5: which we may or may not delete. 728 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 4: You can also find us on Instagram at Jessica Bennett 729 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 4: and at Susie b NYC. Also check out Jessica's books 730 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 4: Feminist Fight Club and This Is eighteen. 731 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 3: In Retrospect is. 732 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 5: A production of iHeart Podcasts and the Media. Lauren Hanson 733 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 5: is our supervising producer. Derek Clements is our engineer and 734 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 5: sound designer. Emily Meronoff is our producer. Sharon Atia is 735 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 5: our researcher and associate producer. 736 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 4: Our executive producer from the media is Cindy Levy. Our 737 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 4: executive producer from iHeart are Anna Stem and Katrina Norbel. 738 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 4: Our artwork is from Pentagram. Our mixing engineer is Amanda 739 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 4: Rose Smith. Additional editing help from Mary Do. We are 740 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 4: your hosts Susie Bannacarum. 741 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 5: And Jessica Bennett. We are also executive producers for even more. 742 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 5: Check out inretropod dot com. See you next week.