WEBVTT - Buck Brief - Juliana Mercer

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Buck Brief.

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<v Speaker 2>We're joined by Julianna Mercer. She is a Marine Corps

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<v Speaker 2>veteran and the director of Public Advocates advocacy for Healing Breakthrough,

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<v Speaker 2>which you'll tell us about here us to do with

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<v Speaker 2>veterans and PTSD and treatment. Juliana, thanks for being here.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, thank you for your service.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so great to be here. Buck.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, let's start with this. You're in the Marine Corps.

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<v Speaker 2>Now you're doing work to help fellow veterans through this organization,

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<v Speaker 2>Healing Breakthrough.

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<v Speaker 3>What is this entity? What does it do? What do

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<v Speaker 3>you focus on?

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<v Speaker 4>So, Healing Breakthrough has a mission to get MDMA assisted

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<v Speaker 4>therapy into the VA system for all veterans that can

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<v Speaker 4>benefit from it, and by benefit from it, it means

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<v Speaker 4>heal and solve their PTSD. MDMA just received their new

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<v Speaker 4>drug applification from the FDA with final results of seventy

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<v Speaker 4>one percent efficacy in eliminating a PTSD diagnosis and of

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<v Speaker 4>those that didn't get completely eliminate their diagnosis. They have

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<v Speaker 4>an eighty six percent reduction in symptoms. You compare that

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<v Speaker 4>to our current gold standards, where we're only seeing a

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<v Speaker 4>thirty percent reduction in symptoms. You can see why this

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<v Speaker 4>is something that's really exciting and we want to make

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<v Speaker 4>sure we get into the hands of veterans.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you could walk me through this a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>MDMA this is like ecstasy is what people usually call it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean as the street drug name, So go ahead, correct.

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<v Speaker 4>So there is MDMA found in ecstasy, but the pharmaceutical

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<v Speaker 4>that has been used for these clinical trials and that

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<v Speaker 4>it is going to be FDA approved, is very different

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<v Speaker 4>from the street drug. It's unadulterated and it's not mixed

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<v Speaker 4>with anything that you would find on the streets.

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<v Speaker 2>No sure or different. I'm just wondering how did this

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<v Speaker 2>come about? Like take me back to the beginning here.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, for I have heard and you're hearing more

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<v Speaker 2>and more about this. People are talking about ayahuasca and

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<v Speaker 2>the veteran community. I have friends, particularly from the special

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<v Speaker 2>operations side, who have taken who have gone on these

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<v Speaker 2>you know, going to these sort of special medical clinics.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of them are outside of the US, and they

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<v Speaker 2>take drugs that are still not even It's not just

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<v Speaker 2>that they're not given here, they're still technically illegal here.

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<v Speaker 2>And some of them have had very powerful results. And

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<v Speaker 2>they're friends of mine, So I know something's going on here, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're telling me they took aahuascar. There's another one.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm forgetting the name. What starts with an R. I think, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I begain, I begain, thank you? I begin like, where

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<v Speaker 2>does this Where does this research? Where did this start?

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<v Speaker 2>How did we get into this realm where I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you're doing public advocacy for this?

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<v Speaker 3>Now?

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<v Speaker 2>How did anyone figure out that some of these drugs

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<v Speaker 2>I think I begain comes from like a toad venom

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<v Speaker 2>basically that is distilled, Is that right or something like that?

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<v Speaker 4>One of these medications that's five MEODMT comes from the

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<v Speaker 4>toad venom I again comes from the African root. So

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<v Speaker 4>there you're seeing and hearing a lot of folks leaving

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<v Speaker 4>the country going to get healing through these therapies in

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<v Speaker 4>places where it's not illegal. I personally was able to

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<v Speaker 4>experience one of these therapies. One of the breakthrough therapies

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<v Speaker 4>outside of the US and was able to see almost

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<v Speaker 4>twenty years of trauma and grief just completely leave my

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<v Speaker 4>body overnight, and with the help of talk therapy, was

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<v Speaker 4>able to really get to the root cause of my

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<v Speaker 4>issues and was able to heal. And that is kind

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<v Speaker 4>of what got me on the track of doing this advocacy,

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<v Speaker 4>learning about these modalities. So back to MDMA, which is

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<v Speaker 4>the one that's going.

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<v Speaker 1>To be FDA approved.

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<v Speaker 4>It was formulated in nineteen twelve by Merk and it

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<v Speaker 4>was being used for talk therapy very successfully, but it

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<v Speaker 4>did leak out into the rave scene and was scheduled

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<v Speaker 4>by the DEA in the mid eighties, and so that

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<v Speaker 4>effective use was no our healthcare providers were no longer

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<v Speaker 4>able to use it. And so for the last thirty

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<v Speaker 4>years there's been an organization called maps now lycos that

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<v Speaker 4>has been making sure that the research doesn't get lost.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's taken thirty years for them to get this

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<v Speaker 4>through the FDA process, and we just saw the new

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<v Speaker 4>drug application get accepted and we're anticipating FDA approval for

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<v Speaker 4>MDMA assisted therapy in August of this year.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is fascinating stuff. What I mean I

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<v Speaker 2>have so many questions. One of them is, how is

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<v Speaker 2>the medical community reacting to this so far?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Because these are you know, we've always known when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to opiates, for example, that it's been known for

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<v Speaker 2>a very long time, centuries, if not a millennia, that

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<v Speaker 2>these things can be used for pain management, right, also

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<v Speaker 2>highly addictive and can be dangerous. But people generally don't

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<v Speaker 2>think of some of these other drugs, and specifically MDMA

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<v Speaker 2>as something that is therapy. It's so ingrained in the

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<v Speaker 2>public mind. This is a part, as you said, a

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<v Speaker 2>party drug, a rave drug, that this could help treat

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<v Speaker 2>and or even possibly in some cases, not all, but

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<v Speaker 2>some cure veterans of extreme PTSD that they have been

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with as a result of the wars we've been

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<v Speaker 2>fighting abroad. That's a lot i thing for people to

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<v Speaker 2>take in. How is the medical community reacting. Are there

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<v Speaker 2>are there big advocates for it? Are they scared they

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to go near it because the stuff is

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<v Speaker 2>technically illegal still?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So I think the medical community and the community

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<v Speaker 4>at large is has been starting to be educated on

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<v Speaker 4>the great potential of these novel treatments.

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<v Speaker 1>They're also.

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<v Speaker 4>Destigmatizing through the veteran voices that you're hearing. So veterans

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<v Speaker 4>are coming home and they're touching their communities with these

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<v Speaker 4>voices and saying, after fifteen years of complex chronic PTSD,

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<v Speaker 4>this one illegal medication that I had to leave the

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<v Speaker 4>country for gave me twenty years worth of therapy. And

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<v Speaker 4>so the veteran voices helping to destigmatize We're also we

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<v Speaker 4>have folks inside of the VA at the top and

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<v Speaker 4>the bottom that are working to study these substances. They're

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<v Speaker 4>being studied at all of our higher ed institutions. Harvard, Yale,

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<v Speaker 4>Johns Hopkins is also studying these. So there's been a

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<v Speaker 4>lot more science behind it and a lot more education happening.

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<v Speaker 4>So people are starting to understand the potential use of

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<v Speaker 4>these and a lot of the science is also showing

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<v Speaker 4>us that there is minimal to little harm when you

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<v Speaker 4>use these substance correctly with the help of a mental

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<v Speaker 4>health care provider.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me ask you more about that in a second,

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<v Speaker 2>But just a word from our sponsor here, the Oxford

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<v Speaker 2>Call them eight three three nine nine five gold eight

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<v Speaker 2>three three nine nine five go o LD. That's eight

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<v Speaker 2>three three nine nine to five Gold Juliana in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the risks, and I guess, you know what, what

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<v Speaker 2>do the NA say? Are there naysayers about this? Are

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<v Speaker 2>there people who try to just dismiss this out of hand?

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<v Speaker 2>Do they say it's dangerous to be treating anybody, not

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<v Speaker 2>just veterans with MDMA. I'm sure there has to be

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<v Speaker 2>some bureaucratic or institutional pushback or is there.

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<v Speaker 1>There is? But it's minimal.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm on the hill every day talking to our legislators,

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<v Speaker 4>and when I'm able to explain to them the science

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<v Speaker 4>behind this, and I'm able to show them that this

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<v Speaker 4>is a treatment that has medical value, it's a lot

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<v Speaker 4>easier for them to wrap their heads around it. We

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<v Speaker 4>are still fighting the stigma of the you know, the

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<v Speaker 4>the sixties and seventies, the War on drugs, and are

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<v Speaker 4>our DEA telling us that these are Schedule one substances,

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<v Speaker 4>which means they hold no medical value. And so we're

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<v Speaker 4>finding out now that that is not true, and through

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<v Speaker 4>the science and research, we're able to start to help

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<v Speaker 4>people change their minds about the stories that we were

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<v Speaker 4>told that these had no medical use.

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<v Speaker 3>Is there any.

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<v Speaker 2>Change in legislation that may be coming that would address

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<v Speaker 2>the legality of this for medicinal use. And we've seen

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<v Speaker 2>something of a progression like that over the course of

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<v Speaker 2>many years with marijuana. And there used to be a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of talk, gosh, I think, like twenty years ago

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<v Speaker 2>now about medicinal marijuana for specifically glaucoma and some other conditions,

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<v Speaker 2>and some of the studies.

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<v Speaker 3>For it or that were in support of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Now marijuana has also just gone legal in a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of places at the state level. Is there an interest

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<v Speaker 2>in changing the law so that veterans have I mean

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<v Speaker 2>just the fact that they have to leave the country

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<v Speaker 2>to get this therapy. And I know it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>MDMA we mentioned I begain and some of the others ayahuasca.

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<v Speaker 2>That seems to be an impediment that's unnecessary given the

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<v Speaker 2>results that are already being seen.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a couple of things happening.

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<v Speaker 4>The Breakthrough Therapy's act is looking to reschedule Schedule one

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<v Speaker 4>substances to Schedule two when the FDA deems them a

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<v Speaker 4>breakthrough therapy.

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<v Speaker 1>So breakthrough therapy.

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<v Speaker 4>Designation means that there's great promise through this medication and the.

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<v Speaker 1>FDA will fast track it through the FDA process.

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<v Speaker 4>When it's a Schedule one substance, there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>barriers to research. MDMA, for example, receive breakthrough therapy status

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<v Speaker 4>in twenty seventeen, and it's been almost eight years until

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<v Speaker 4>we're going.

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<v Speaker 1>To see it actually be FDA approved.

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<v Speaker 4>So because of those barriers to studying schedule one substances,

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<v Speaker 4>we're seeing a pause in how quickly we can get

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<v Speaker 4>these medications approved and studied. So the Breakthrough Therapy is

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<v Speaker 4>ACT is hoping to correct that so it's easier to

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<v Speaker 4>study substances when they get rescheduled and deemed a breakthrough therapy.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing that we're doing.

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<v Speaker 4>Is trying to ensure that the VA is ready to

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<v Speaker 4>roll out MDMA assisted therapy in the VA system as

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<v Speaker 4>soon as md A is FDA approved. There you mentioned

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<v Speaker 4>some of these other compounds. They show great promise and

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<v Speaker 4>they're in various various parts of the research funnel. There's

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<v Speaker 4>over I think there's over five hundred different psychedelic compounds

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<v Speaker 4>that are being studied, and it's not just for mental

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<v Speaker 4>health conditions. It's also for pain management for Alzheimer's. There's

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of different ways that these modalities can be

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<v Speaker 4>potentially helpful to a lot of the things that we've

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<v Speaker 4>been lacking answers.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned a piece of legislation, Where does that stand

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<v Speaker 2>right now on the hill? And and are you getting

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<v Speaker 2>you know, veterans issues is one of the few areas

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I you know, we're we're really just focusing

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<v Speaker 2>on your area and your expertise here in my h

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<v Speaker 2>in my day job, you could say, Juliana, I spent

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of time thinking about politics, right, Veterans issue

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<v Speaker 2>is one of the few areas where you can get

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of bipartisan consensus generally speaking. Are you seeing

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<v Speaker 2>that on this issue? Are are both sides equally willing

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<v Speaker 2>to consider some of these these new breakthrough therapies even

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<v Speaker 2>though there's this kind of public stigma about some of

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<v Speaker 2>these substances. Let's be honest. I mean, what's what's the

0:12:52.377 --> 0:12:53.577
<v Speaker 2>temperature like on the hill?

0:12:55.177 --> 0:12:58.337
<v Speaker 4>I think it's the most bipartisan issue on the hill.

0:12:59.697 --> 0:13:03.417
<v Speaker 4>Our legislators have been, like like myself, trying to find

0:13:03.457 --> 0:13:06.377
<v Speaker 4>solutions to the veterans suicide epidemic, and we've been banging

0:13:06.377 --> 0:13:08.537
<v Speaker 4>our heads against the wall because we haven't had any

0:13:08.577 --> 0:13:12.457
<v Speaker 4>solution that actually works. So when I walk into their offices,

0:13:12.457 --> 0:13:14.417
<v Speaker 4>and I show them a solution that two thirds of

0:13:14.457 --> 0:13:17.417
<v Speaker 4>those that go through this treatment no longer qualify for

0:13:17.457 --> 0:13:18.897
<v Speaker 4>a PTSD diagnosis.

0:13:19.017 --> 0:13:20.817
<v Speaker 1>This is the answer that they have been looking for

0:13:20.897 --> 0:13:21.337
<v Speaker 1>as well.

0:13:21.737 --> 0:13:26.537
<v Speaker 4>And so I'm finding very little resistance to getting support

0:13:26.737 --> 0:13:31.177
<v Speaker 4>for ensuring that MDMA assisted therapy is available in the

0:13:31.257 --> 0:13:32.297
<v Speaker 4>VA system.

0:13:32.657 --> 0:13:34.617
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think it's so important for a lot

0:13:34.617 --> 0:13:37.257
<v Speaker 2>of the people listening or watching now know people or

0:13:37.257 --> 0:13:42.497
<v Speaker 2>maybe they themselves have PTSD and if you told any

0:13:42.537 --> 0:13:43.977
<v Speaker 2>of them, and I know this from talking to them

0:13:43.977 --> 0:13:47.177
<v Speaker 2>about it over the course of many years, now that

0:13:47.297 --> 0:13:50.417
<v Speaker 2>they had a two to one hundred chance of really

0:13:51.097 --> 0:13:53.177
<v Speaker 2>getting all the you know, as long as it wasn't

0:13:53.217 --> 0:13:55.657
<v Speaker 2>extremely dangerous or something for they would take that right.

0:13:55.737 --> 0:13:57.377
<v Speaker 3>I mean they would because some.

0:13:57.297 --> 0:14:01.297
<v Speaker 2>Of them haven't found a lot of success with cognitive

0:14:01.337 --> 0:14:04.457
<v Speaker 2>therapy alone. Some of them still struggle with the flashbacks

0:14:04.457 --> 0:14:06.297
<v Speaker 2>and things like that. So when you're talking about a

0:14:06.297 --> 0:14:09.457
<v Speaker 2>two out of three shot, I think that that just

0:14:09.497 --> 0:14:12.937
<v Speaker 2>goes to show how promising this is and what a

0:14:12.937 --> 0:14:15.297
<v Speaker 2>breakthrough this could be. Just taking a moment here for

0:14:15.297 --> 0:14:18.377
<v Speaker 2>the TUNNELA Towers Foundation, an organization does a tremendous amount

0:14:18.417 --> 0:14:20.457
<v Speaker 2>of good and make sure and make sure that we

0:14:20.537 --> 0:14:23.177
<v Speaker 2>never forget. This means never forgetting nine to eleven, never

0:14:23.217 --> 0:14:25.497
<v Speaker 2>forgetting the soldiers and first responders who risk their lives

0:14:25.537 --> 0:14:28.777
<v Speaker 2>in bodies for our country and communities. The foundation is

0:14:28.777 --> 0:14:31.417
<v Speaker 2>committed to helping these heroes and their families. Heroes like

0:14:31.657 --> 0:14:35.537
<v Speaker 2>retired Air Force Lieutenant Michael Cardo's Lieutenant Cardinal Cardos served

0:14:35.537 --> 0:14:38.497
<v Speaker 2>his country for twenty years and received numerous commendations, including

0:14:38.497 --> 0:14:41.297
<v Speaker 2>a Bronze Star. During his time overseas, he was exposed

0:14:41.297 --> 0:14:44.097
<v Speaker 2>to toxic burn pits. Eighteen hours after being diagnosed with

0:14:44.137 --> 0:14:47.777
<v Speaker 2>service related cancer, he passed away. Tune the Towers paid

0:14:47.817 --> 0:14:50.617
<v Speaker 2>off the mortgage on his family's home, enabling his widow

0:14:50.617 --> 0:14:53.017
<v Speaker 2>and their six children to stay in that home, removing

0:14:53.017 --> 0:14:56.217
<v Speaker 2>that financial burden. The foundation helps gold Star families and

0:14:56.257 --> 0:14:58.857
<v Speaker 2>the families of fall and first responders, as well as

0:14:58.857 --> 0:15:02.577
<v Speaker 2>catastrophically injured heroes and homeless veterans. Help families like the

0:15:02.657 --> 0:15:05.697
<v Speaker 2>Cardos donate eleven dollars a month. Tunnel the Towers at

0:15:05.697 --> 0:15:08.057
<v Speaker 2>T two T dot org. That's t the number two

0:15:08.137 --> 0:15:08.817
<v Speaker 2>T dot org.

0:15:08.857 --> 0:15:10.697
<v Speaker 3>I donate every month. It's really easy, you can set

0:15:10.737 --> 0:15:11.537
<v Speaker 3>it up. It's recurring.

0:15:11.817 --> 0:15:13.737
<v Speaker 2>Please team join me in this one T two T

0:15:13.977 --> 0:15:19.137
<v Speaker 2>dot org. Juliana, thank you for telling us all about this.

0:15:19.257 --> 0:15:20.857
<v Speaker 2>I know you're you're on the hill and you're trying

0:15:20.897 --> 0:15:23.897
<v Speaker 2>to move the ball forward with legislation. For anybody who's

0:15:23.897 --> 0:15:27.017
<v Speaker 2>interested either in just learning more or also perhaps helping

0:15:27.057 --> 0:15:30.977
<v Speaker 2>out or maybe finding some of the resources that could

0:15:30.977 --> 0:15:33.777
<v Speaker 2>be available to them if they themselves have a service

0:15:33.777 --> 0:15:37.017
<v Speaker 2>related PTSD, where can people go and how can they

0:15:37.057 --> 0:15:37.617
<v Speaker 2>get involved?

0:15:39.417 --> 0:15:43.617
<v Speaker 4>Healing Breakthrough dot org for more information. If you're interested

0:15:43.697 --> 0:15:47.457
<v Speaker 4>in the clinical trials, it's a clinicaltrials dot gov. And

0:15:47.497 --> 0:15:51.617
<v Speaker 4>if you're a veteran that is looking to connect with

0:15:51.777 --> 0:15:55.217
<v Speaker 4>these therapies, Heroicheartsproject dot org.

0:15:56.137 --> 0:15:58.697
<v Speaker 2>All Right, there we go. Juanna, thank you again for

0:15:58.697 --> 0:16:00.457
<v Speaker 2>your service and your time today. We appreciate it.

0:16:00.577 --> 0:16:01.977
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. Buck, great talking to you.

0:16:02.337 --> 0:16:02.897
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.