1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: Bill Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 3: I mean legitimate. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 4: He says. 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 5: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 5: be different. 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican. 11 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 3: on him. 13 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 14 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 6: Anything he does, he's fascinating to people. 15 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 5: Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 5: It's Tuesday, October First, I'm your host, David Popodopolis. As 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 5: the US presidential campaign, we have politics on the brain 18 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 5: once again. Over the weekend, Bloomberg publishes really terrific piece 19 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 5: of data journalism showing how this obscure dark term from 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 5: a far right figure in Austria has now entered American 21 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 5: politics and in a big way, and Elon, it turns out, 22 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 5: had a big hand in promoting this. We'll then take 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 5: a hard pivot and touch a little bit on Tesla's 24 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 5: third quarter sales, which are due out on Wednesday, and 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 5: appear by all accounts to have rebounded. And then we're 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 5: going to feature a fun conversation between friend of the 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 5: pod Kurt Wagner and Jack Sweeney, who built the infamous 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 5: Elon jet tracker. Now back in high school, Jack got 29 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 5: himself into a little bit of trouble for publicly tracking 30 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 5: the private planes of Elon and other celebrities on social media, 31 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 5: and to this day Jack's accounts are closely monitored. We're 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 5: going to start in Vienna, where we have reporter Jonathan Tarne, 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 5: one of the authors on that data journalism story on 34 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 5: the alarming trend, where we see the use of the 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 5: term remigration grow and grow across social media. Jonathan, welcome 36 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 5: to the show. 37 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for inviting me. 38 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 5: And I have our two regulars with me here in 39 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 5: the studio, Mac Schafkin, Max Heloe, Hey, David and Dana Hall. 40 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 6: Dana, how are you always a pleasure to be here? 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 5: So, Jonathan, for the uninitiated out there, tell us what 42 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 5: is this term remigration. 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: Remigration used to be an obscure social science term that 44 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: burst onto the international scene, at least here first in 45 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: Europe in January. It was formally used by mostly sociologists 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: to describe the voluntary return of Jewish people after World 47 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: War Two. It was reappropriated by right wing extremists over 48 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: the last ten years to mean the forced expulsion of 49 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: minority groups, mostly Africans, Arabs and Muslims, from Europe. It 50 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: really took off in January after an investigative report discovered 51 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: German politicians sitting down with this right wing radical from Austria. 52 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: And when I say radical, we're talking really right wing. 53 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: He received money from the christ Church killer who in 54 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen murdered fifty one people. He's mixed up as 55 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: some really bad stuff has the attention of intelligence agencies, 56 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: the equivalent of the FBI in Austria. He's really far right. 57 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: He was meeting with mainline politicians in Germany and in 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: Austria discussing this word remigration as a strategic imperative for 59 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: European conservative parties. In January, we see it bursting through 60 00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: Alphabet trend analytics. Our contribution is then to use this 61 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: sophisticated social media tracking platform where we can go back 62 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: and examine eight months of online data to see how 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: this word remigration is pinking about. What we find is 64 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: that ninety seven percent of the traffic that we study 65 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: is actually coming on Elon Musk Twitter, and what we 66 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: were surprised to find is that he actually had a 67 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: direct connection to some of this amplification. 68 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 5: And when you say a direct connection, Jonathan, what does 69 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 5: a direct connection look like? 70 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: Well, for example, I mean the way these guys operate 71 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: the people who are promoting remigration. They're very sophisticated in 72 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: their online and offline interactions. So on March eighth, this 73 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: young radical in Austria, he gets invited back onto Twitter 74 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: after a four year ban. The first thing he does 75 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: is he goes on and he thanks Elon for letting 76 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: him back onto the platform, and then the next day 77 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: he goes on and make some content. There's only three people, 78 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: but they choose a strategical location. On March ninth, the 79 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: day after getting back onto x, they scale the front 80 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: of the Fundamental Rights Agency, which is based in Vienna. 81 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: It's the equivalent of the Human Rights Watchdog. They occupy 82 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: the balcony for three hours, far more police and far 83 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: more firefighters than demonstrators. But that's not the point, because 84 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: after they get hauled down, they start making videos and 85 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: we can see then as we're tracking the data, how 86 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: they're mentions and their likes, the amplification of their message 87 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: is exploding online. It more than doubles overnight and remains 88 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: at a high level for days after that. Then the 89 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: young Austrian radical actually gets hauled off in handcuffs, and 90 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: that's where Musk steps in. He messages him directly and 91 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: asks whether you know it's even legal for him to 92 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: be arrested for talking about remigration. And that's when you know, 93 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: you see Elon Musk. If he gets in touch with 94 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: you directly over the platform, then your engagements really take off, 95 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: and that's when it starts, Yeah, climbing, rocketing. 96 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, the piece, you know, that is very interesting and 97 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 5: truly does you know, shed some light on how max 98 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 5: you get to this figure? I mean, ninety seven percent 99 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 5: of all references to this term appearing on X. I 100 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 5: suppose if it were twenty seven or forty seven or whatever, 101 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 5: you could say, oh whatever, random skew it or ninety 102 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 5: seven percent is an incredible number. 103 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it's such a high number that 104 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 2: you'd be sort of tempted to ask, is this does 105 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: this exist without Elon Musk? And but read reading the story, 106 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: I do think it does and I think what it 107 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 2: actually shows is more the centrality of Musk's role in 108 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: the kind of like. 109 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 7: Far right information space. 110 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 2: Like we if we're talking about this ten years ago, 111 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: there were other places where these ideas were bubbling up. 112 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: There were sort of the more niche social media platforms, 113 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 2: you know, four Chan and the like, and then you 114 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: had kind of Fox News, some of some of the 115 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: sort of further right parts of Fox News. And it 116 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: really feels like Musk is kind of occupying both of 117 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 2: those spaces, occupying both the edge lord kind of master 118 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 2: of ceremonies for the edge lord right, and master of 119 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: ceremonies for the actual right, or the kind of most 120 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: ideological part of the actual right. And so, yeah, you 121 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: have these kind of hard right ideas on immigration going 122 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: from some random guy in. 123 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 7: Austria to you know, the mouth of the president. Yeah, 124 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 7: and we're a president. Excuse me. 125 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's become mainstreamed in a way, right, I mean 126 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 8: there's always been right wing spaces or more conservative spaces. 127 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 8: Talk you know, talk radio is huge in the eighties, 128 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 8: you know, read it, four Chan, Telegram, all kinds of podcasts, 129 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 8: But this seems to be sort of like the mainstreaming 130 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 8: of views that people once thought were fringe, and then 131 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 8: because they are on X, they're getting amplified. And then 132 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 8: they start entering like the mainstream conversation because people start 133 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 8: using the words. The president starts using the word and 134 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 8: it's it's very tactical and it's very orchestrated. And I 135 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 8: would imagine Jonathan correct me if I'm wrong. But are 136 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 8: these people that are kind of interacting with Elon Musk 137 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 8: are they also being paid by X, Like are they 138 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 8: monetizing their accounts? 139 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: Well, I mean there's a parallel investigation by a Swedish 140 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: agency that did find that one of the most popular 141 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: X accounts promoting this concept of a remigration is actually 142 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: do buy based outfit that is actually doing it for 143 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,359 Speaker 1: the AD revenue. So I mean there's that angle absolutely, 144 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: But just generally speaking, I mean, you know, before the 145 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: Internet came along, we used to call this like glorification 146 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: of violence for example, right, you have movies that glorify 147 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: violence or and this is like again what we're seeing 148 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: over the course of this investigation. There are horrible things, 149 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: There are horrible crimes, and there are riots like the race. 150 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: So it took place in the UK over the summertime, 151 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: and because everybody has a video production studio in their 152 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: pocket these days, those images do go viral. But it's 153 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: the difference then, of having mister Musk come on and 154 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: saying civil war is inevitable, as he did at Ate 155 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: in late July in response to some of these images 156 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: of violence. 157 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, in the in the UK right. 158 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: Versus somebody calling for a level headed response that is 159 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: socially acceptable. And you know what we've found is simply 160 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: you know that this extreme content is amplified a raging 161 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: scream around this issue of remigration. 162 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 5: Jonathan, I want to ask you on that for a second, 163 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 5: that the term I imagine remigration means different things to 164 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 5: different people. I mean my understanding is some are calling 165 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 5: for it for everyone who's in the country or any 166 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 5: given country illegally. Others are saying, no, that doesn't go 167 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 5: far enough. Not only do we need to drive out 168 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 5: those who are in the country illegally, but also many 169 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 5: of those who are here legally. Walk us through the 170 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 5: different kinds of interpretations you have. 171 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's start with what we know. So September 172 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: twenty ninth, the Freedom Party, the far right party in Austria, 173 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: one of the most votes in the national elections. They've 174 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: adopted remigration as a primary policy platform. They want to 175 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: put pressure on anybody, any foreign born person who doesn't 176 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: adopt the quote dominant culture. They want to institute a 177 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: so called identity based migration policy, expel asylum seekers they 178 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: name in their policy platform going into the vote. They 179 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: want to remove millions of people across the European Union 180 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: who do not meet their criteria and send them to 181 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: a North African made up city. So basically we're talking 182 00:10:53,880 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: about remigration in its official form as something equivalent to deportation. 183 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 6: Now, Max. 184 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 5: So it goes from something that's largely in Europe and 185 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 5: it jumps over the Atlantic and comes to the United 186 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 5: States of America in a big way, as Jonathan was indicating, 187 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 5: and a big part of that moment was when Trump 188 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,479 Speaker 5: posted about it himself. 189 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 9: Yeah. 190 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: I mean it's important to say in the context of 191 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: domestic politics, US politics, this. 192 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 7: Is like a euphemism. 193 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: It's not like the Trump is importing these crazy far 194 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: right Austrian ideas. It's that he's importing a way of 195 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: talking about the ideas that he's that are already here 196 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: and that he's already basically put forward as a proposal. 197 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 2: You know, he's saying he's going to deport millions of people, 198 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 2: and so remigration just kind of like a euphemistic way 199 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: of signaling it, or perhaps a way of signaling affinity 200 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: with some of these right, you know, extremists on Twitter. 201 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 5: Unless I'm not hearing correctly, I've never heard him or 202 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 5: the party say that people who are here legally and. 203 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 6: Haven't the US passport. 204 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 7: I don't, well, so the US passports. 205 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: There is a question of asylum seekers who are here 206 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 2: legally who I think at various times he has implied 207 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: that that would have to go home. 208 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 6: Jonathan. 209 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 5: Now that we're here in the US, we're going to 210 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 5: talk a little bit about more about Elon and US politics, 211 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 5: and so we are going to let you go. But 212 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 5: thank you very much for joining us. 213 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Thank you. 214 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 5: Buy Okay, So, Dana, Now, Elon's Pack is indeed contributing 215 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 5: quite a bit to the Trump campaign into its messaging. 216 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 6: What's its spending up to now? 217 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, so it's called America Pack, and to date they've 218 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 8: spent sixty eight million dollars just to elect Donald Trump. 219 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 8: That does not include the sort of millions that are 220 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 8: being spent on down ballot races and a lot of 221 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 8: competitive house districts, but that's a significant number. I mean, 222 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 8: Elon's pack has emerged as one of the key packs 223 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 8: that is supporting Trump this cycle. And it's hard to 224 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 8: know exactly how the ground game is going on all 225 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 8: of these swing states, but we've seen the mailers. We 226 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 8: are definitely looking at all the digital ads, and then 227 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 8: the sort of big in kind contribution that Musk is 228 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 8: giving Trump, which is basically what he's spouting on you know, 229 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 8: X almost NonStop these days. 230 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: You know, I'm almost going to retract my point because 231 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: Dana points out that like the biggest contribution that Elon 232 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: has made to Trump has to do with his posting 233 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 2: and his use of X. That said, you know, remember 234 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: when we first learned that Elon Musk was going to 235 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: donate a lot of money to Trump. There were reports 236 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: that he was saying he was going to donate forty 237 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: five million dollars a month, which he sort of kind 238 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: of half denied or back down from or whatever kind 239 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: of threw into some doubt. We have some sense now, 240 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 2: right because sixty eight million dollars. So that's a mathematic 241 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 2: that suggests right that Elon Musk is has not ponied 242 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: up the most extreme amount that he might have. 243 00:13:58,559 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 7: I don't think. 244 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say he is not donating 245 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: forty five million dollars a month. 246 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 7: That said, he is donating a lot of money. 247 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: Now, remember when this pack was started, Elon Musk had 248 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: not yet donated. I think, Dana, you'll correct me if 249 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: I'm wrong. I think a little less than ten million 250 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: bucks had been an error. 251 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 8: Tis actually, actually there's no fec filing at all that 252 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 8: shows that Elon Musk has donated. Squat it's all his. 253 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 2: Friends, right right, No, No, But my assumption is those 254 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: filings were very early before the reports came out that 255 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: Elon Musk was going to make the contribution. I think 256 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: it's fair to assume that the money that's come in 257 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: now much of that has come from Elon Musk, if 258 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: not all of it, But we do not know and 259 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: will not know until we get filing. So, like, if 260 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: you're trying to decide, like somewhere is it forty five 261 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: million dollars a month? Is it more or less than 262 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: forty five million? Like to me, we're looking probably in 263 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: the fifty million dollar range. But again that's just a 264 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 2: guess based on that's f Yeah, I think. 265 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 8: That's fair there. I mean, they are clearly spending millions 266 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 8: of dollars that is coming from somewhere. We'll find out 267 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 8: October fifteen just how much. 268 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: It's possible that the Jimmy Johns guy who was an 269 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: early donor to this pack, or Joe Lonsdale will turn 270 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: out to be like a Sheldon Adelson level Trump backer. 271 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 7: I think it's very. 272 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: Likely that much of this money, if not all of 273 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 2: it that's come in, you know, since Musk began contributing, 274 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: is Musk money. 275 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 6: Okay, So that's the Uh. 276 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 5: Those are the figures on the on the money exing 277 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 5: on behalf of Trump as part of the the implicit 278 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 5: agreement here. The Guardian ran the math the other day. 279 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 5: Twenty four hours of elon Musk on x one hundred 280 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 5: and forty five IXes roughly six an hour, roughly one 281 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 5: every ten minutes. Now, Max, I'm guessing he's sleeping for 282 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 5: a few. 283 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: Hours of these and some of these ex's, David, are 284 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: very long, right, you think of like, oh, that's only 285 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 2: you know, one hundred x is times one hundred and 286 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 2: forty characters or. 287 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 7: Whatever like it's not that much. But no, no, no, 288 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 7: Elon has. 289 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: Taking full advantage on of the long form capabilities of 290 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: each There was a rant in their right right, I've 291 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: got it pulled up. Over the weekend, he posted a 292 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 2: somewhat long post that basically said that if Trump is 293 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: not elected, this will be the last American election. Basically, 294 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 2: if we do not support Trump, American democracy will end. 295 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 5: And then he's turning what the Democrats say on its head. 296 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 6: Mister Musk is here. 297 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: Turning what some, yes, some in the activist corners of 298 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party say on its head. And his justification 299 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: for this was honestly like a version of the great 300 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: replacement theory, basically that the Democrats have been importing immigrants 301 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: that so that they can sort of swing the United 302 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: States to a permanent, you know, one party state, you know, 303 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: if only one, and he wrote if even one in 304 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 2: twenty illegals, And now again that is not a that's 305 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 2: that's not the preferred term for referring to undocumented people, 306 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: but one in twenty illegals become citizens per year, something 307 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: that the Democrats are expediting as fast as humanly possible. 308 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 7: That would mean about two million new legal voters. 309 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: He goes on and on basically, you know, you got 310 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: to get involved or the Democrats are going to you know, 311 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: control America forever. He's sort of just on the regular 312 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 2: expressing such racism and conspiratorial thoughts all the time. But like, 313 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 2: this is a very extreme thing that he's saying, and 314 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: it has you know, it creates a sense of urgency 315 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: if you're perhaps a Trump. 316 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 7: Voter or somebody who's inclined this way already. 317 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, Dan, if we can talk about Elon's company, 318 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 5: his biggest company for a second, it's going to come 319 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 5: out and release third quarter deliveries tomorrow and lo and 320 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 5: behold they are on the men. 321 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 7: Yeah. 322 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 8: I mean, I think one thing that I constantly want 323 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 8: to push back on, which is like a very common narrative, 324 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 8: is everyone in the United States has this idea like, 325 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 8: oh my god, Elon Musk is such a right wing nutbag, 326 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 8: like Tesla Sales or got a Creator. It's brand erosion. 327 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 8: He's torching the brand. No one's ever going to buy 328 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 8: an EV. 329 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 6: But that's only Max Auto Market. 330 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 8: Well, I've i mean, Max and I have written stories 331 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 8: together that I've looked at this, but we live at 332 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 8: a global auto market. Tesla has a huge advantage when 333 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 8: it comes to electric vehicles because of its supercharging network 334 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 8: and it's over the air software updates and its range 335 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 8: and a lot of other things, and sales have really 336 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 8: perked up in China. So we're going to get delivery 337 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 8: figures tomorrow. Bloomberg consensus is like four hundred and sixty 338 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 8: four thousand units. That's like a big comeback. That would 339 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 8: be like a year over year increase from the third 340 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 8: quarter a year ago. So you know, I mean, we 341 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 8: won't know until we actually get the delivery figures, but 342 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 8: there are signs that you know that sales have recovered, 343 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 8: mostly thanks to China, which is like all in on evs. 344 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 8: It has these great incentives. 345 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 7: But also not slily a commentary on like it doesn't. 346 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 2: If Tesla sales go down, it doesn't mean it was 347 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: because Elon tweeted. But if it goes up, doesn't mean that, 348 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: you know, the world's automotive virus. Now are like, you know, great, 349 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: thank god Elon is warning us of these migrant. 350 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 5: No, but Max, I will tell you because you're you're 351 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 5: a cyber truck skeptic. Well, essay, and that you're not 352 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 5: sure it's ever going to amount to more than a 353 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 5: rounding era in Tesla earnings. Indications are apparently that they 354 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 5: sold a decent chunk of them, and the third indications 355 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 5: are help me out, what is that? 356 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 8: Well, you mean the cyber truck. Yeah, no, I mean 357 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 8: that I am seeing more cyber trucks on the road 358 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 8: here in California. They also just started delivering cyber trucks 359 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 8: in Mexico. And you know, there's even some hurricane photos 360 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 8: about like, oh, my cyber truck has been great in 361 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 8: the hurricane in North Carolina. I think some of the 362 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 8: estimates are like maybe they did twenty thousand cyber truck 363 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 8: sales this quarter. 364 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 6: These are not seven thousand a month. 365 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 2: This is impressive compared to a bunch of other electric 366 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 2: trucks that are all are also not selling. 367 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 6: How many Rivians are they selling a court It's. 368 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: Fewer and but that doesn't But but like Rivian is 369 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: a niche company that with very small footprint. Tesla, as 370 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,959 Speaker 2: they're saying, like, is selling four hundred thousand. 371 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 5: Can I ask you this, what quarterly number on cyber 372 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 5: trucks do you need before it? 373 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 6: You know, it is something that you will. 374 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 2: Say that's looking at Tesla's comparison to the over to 375 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: the auto market, So like, what are what is the 376 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: F one fifty selling? 377 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 7: What is a RAM selling? What are what are other trucks? 378 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 8: Because because Chevy Silverado or or. 379 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 7: The Colorado, David's preferred way of the Colorado. 380 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: But you know, as we talked about it before the 381 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 2: cyber truck launch, like trucks are the big automotive market 382 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 2: in the United States. It's like more people own trucks 383 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 2: than Sedan's and so like we shouldn't be like comparing 384 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 2: it to a little bit. You know, Tesla is competing 385 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: with the Corolla, the cyber truck is competing with the 386 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: F one fifty, Like that's that should be the comparison, 387 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: and really there's very little evidence that's happening. We should 388 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 2: go back and look at like how quickly the Hummer 389 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 2: sold in its early days, like one of these like 390 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 2: kind of novelty trucks, whether it's even reached that status. 391 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 5: If you were to do that in this I'll give 392 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 5: you seven days to do that, and the next Tuesday 393 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 5: we'll talk about it. Maybe the demand is in d 394 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 5: there because Dana, right, they are we know they still 395 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 5: have supply issues with just cranking them out enough. 396 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 6: I don't know. 397 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 5: I thought twenty thousand was a significant number. Max is 398 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 5: having none of it. 399 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 8: So I think one thing to look for tomorrow when 400 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 8: we get the sales figures is Tesla doesn't even break 401 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 8: out the cyber truck. They basically are like, we sell 402 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 8: the three in the Y and then there's quote unquote 403 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 8: other vehicles, which is the s the X of the 404 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 8: cyber truck. So until a company even breaks out how 405 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 8: many they sell, like, I'm not going to get excited. 406 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 5: And the reason we've had to bring it up is just 407 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 5: to get Max worked up. That's really the only reason 408 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 5: we talk about the cyber truck. 409 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 6: On this show. 410 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 5: Last point on Tesla stock is back up on the year, 411 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 5: now erased all of its losses. 412 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 8: Dana, right, because what's coming? I mean, David, have you 413 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 8: forgotten what ten ten is? 414 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 3: Right? 415 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 6: Right? I forgot? 416 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 5: We got to get excited our watch party for the 417 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 5: big ROBOTAXI, you know. 418 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: And also these sales figures in China, the fact that 419 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 2: interest rates appear to be coming down, there are like 420 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: a bunch of reasons to feel more more were optimistic 421 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: about about this company. Then before I did see you know, 422 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 2: cyber truck in New York City in matt blue kind 423 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 2: of it was a rap in this sort of deep blue, 424 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 2: and I got admit it, it looked kind of cool. 425 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 5: We go back capitulation from Max Chapkins. So with that, 426 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 5: I'm moving on. 427 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 6: Max and Dana, goodbye to you both. 428 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 7: Thanks for having us. 429 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 4: Thank you. 430 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 5: Okay, so now we have for you a special little treat. 431 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 5: Kurt Wagner did that interview with Jack Sweeney. Now, Kurt, 432 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 5: when you were in high school playing big man on campus, 433 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 5: doing keg stands and superstar quarterback of the football team, 434 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 5: Sweeney was doing real stuff, right, I mean you know 435 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 5: he was. 436 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 6: He was. 437 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 5: He was speaking truth to power. Tell us about your 438 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 5: interview with him. 439 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 10: He was Jack Sweeney still just in college by the 440 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 10: way down in Florida. Is perhaps better known as the 441 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 10: career of Elon Jet, the Twitter account that tracks Elon's 442 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 10: private planes. 443 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 3: So you know, this is where it takes. 444 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 10: Off, from where it's headed, what time it took off, 445 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 10: what time it landed, how many you know the co 446 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 10: two emissions that were that were emitted during the trips. 447 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 10: So he's been publishing this information which is publicly available, 448 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 10: you do got to hunt for it. But he knows 449 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 10: how to do that, and he's been publishing this for 450 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 10: the last several years, and uh, you know, we get 451 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 10: into a lot of the drama that's unfolded for him 452 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 10: in his life since then, because, as you can imagine, 453 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 10: Elon is not a fan of people necessarily knowing when 454 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 10: he takes off in his private plane and where he's headed. 455 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, there certainly are some trials and tribulations along the way. 456 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 5: Those come up in the interview. I listened to it 457 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 5: last night. I thought it was a hoot, and I 458 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 5: think you all will too. Let's give it a listen. 459 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 10: Hello, Jack Sweeney, the creator of elon Jet. Welcome to Elonik. 460 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 10: It's great to have hey. 461 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 9: Thanks for having me. A lot to talk about, and 462 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 9: it'll be interesting. 463 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 10: We have a lot to talk about. Absolutely no, we're 464 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 10: so excited to have you on. You know, I want 465 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 10: to start I think probably by this point a lot 466 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 10: of our listeners may be familiar with elon Jet. We're 467 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 10: obviously going to get into what that is, but I 468 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 10: actually want to start with you and sort of give 469 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 10: people just a quick background on who Jack is. Give 470 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 10: us the Rundown because I think a lot of people 471 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 10: would be surprised to hear you're still in college. 472 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 9: Yeah, so back in high school, I'm a senior now 473 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 9: in college about to graduate. I've always been this kid 474 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 9: who's been interested in tech and things like that, and 475 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 9: I was interested in Testla on SpaceX. Like at some 476 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 9: point I became aware that Elon Musk had a private jet. 477 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 9: I kind of knew about flight tracking because my dad 478 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 9: was familiar or he's in the aviation industry, so I 479 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 9: was familiar that flight tracking existed, and I took what 480 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 9: I knew from computers, flight tracking and all that during 481 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 9: COVID and just kind of built up the idea that 482 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 9: I had for a while. 483 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,239 Speaker 10: So explain to people how this works exactly. I think 484 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 10: there's a misconception that a lot of what you post 485 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 10: is maybe private or not, you know, publicly available. 486 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 3: It is publicly available. 487 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 10: How do you get this information that you're you know, 488 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 10: sharing with everybody about the private jet activity. 489 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 9: Yeah, so you know, the United States with FAA, and 490 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 9: then everywhere else around the world, all the planes are 491 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 9: required to are mandated to have transponders, and the transponders 492 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 9: are transmitting their tail number and where they are, where 493 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 9: there speed, their altitude, all that telemetry, and that can 494 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 9: be picked up with like two hundred and fifty miles 495 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 9: of like from the ground to any plane that's in 496 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 9: that range. But so I have a hobbyists all around 497 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 9: the world, like a thousand of them sending data all 498 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 9: into a central server, and there's different networks like this 499 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 9: that exists that are even bigger than mine. And then 500 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 9: once you have that data, you can compare it to 501 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 9: like registration databases and so like for instance, you can 502 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 9: look up Elon's plane and it's registered to a subsidiary 503 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 9: SpaceX that's registered at the same location as SpaceX or address, 504 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 9: and like that way you know it's his plane, and 505 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 9: then you start tracking it with that data. And the 506 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 9: other thing is like Elon's tail number is N six 507 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 9: two ats and his birthday is six twenty eight, and 508 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 9: Ts's test on SpaceX. 509 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 4: So it's almost like some of these things. 510 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 9: That these celebrities and billionaires they don't want to be tracked, 511 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 9: but then they do something like that that makes them obvious, 512 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 9: and they're not really taking full advantage of what they 513 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 9: could be doing to hide the tracking. 514 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 4: It's all automatic posting the programs. 515 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean Elon of course has pushed back on this. 516 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 10: We'll get into that in a sac At what point 517 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 10: were you aware that he was aware of the account? 518 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 3: Right? 519 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 7: Like? 520 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 3: Was there certain? 521 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 10: I'm sure when you first launched this, you know, maybe 522 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 10: you thought maybe he'll see this, maybe he won't see this, 523 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 10: but at a certain stage he clearly saw it. When 524 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 10: did you become aware that he knew what you were doing? 525 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 9: So back in December twenty twenty, I believe is the 526 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 9: year he flew to Hawaii and someone quote retweets it 527 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 9: and then Elon sees it. He and he just replies 528 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 9: visiting Larry Ellison blah blah blah because you know that's 529 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 9: one of his friends and he gets like business advice 530 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 9: from him. No problem with it then. And then like 531 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 9: a year later, December twenty twenty one, you know, he 532 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 9: DMS me it's like one am for me, and. 533 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 4: I'm like, wow, that's unbelievable, and like, you know. 534 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 9: Then we're messaging for like probably like a month, like 535 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 9: every cup every week or so, like he says something 536 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 9: or like I say something and he's asking me how 537 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 9: it works and. 538 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 10: What's he's saying to you when he reached out to you, like, 539 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 10: was it a complimentary No. 540 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 9: At that point he's like, I don't like this basically, 541 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 9: you know, but he was asking how it worked. 542 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 3: Okay. 543 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 9: He has a strong distaste for the FAA already, and 544 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 9: that's another reason why he's like air traffic control is 545 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 9: so primitive, blah blah blah, you know, and I would 546 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 9: say he's right about that, Like in general, if you're 547 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 9: familiar with the aviation industry, it's behind with the times. 548 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 10: You're now having a dialogue with him at this point, 549 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 10: are you feeling like, hey, this is pretty cool, Like 550 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 10: this is a guy you look up to, and now 551 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 10: he's s he's in your DMS? What is going through 552 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 10: your mind when you start to have a conversation with him. 553 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 9: It's like you're really like trying to think about what 554 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 9: he's thinking, and you know, you I don't want to 555 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 9: like make him mad, but at the same time, I'm 556 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 9: still going to hold like what I think he offers 557 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 9: me five thousand dollars at some point to. 558 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 3: Stop and I think you countered right, Yeah. 559 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 4: I was like fifty thousand or a Tesla. 560 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 10: Fifty thousand, yeah, or a tesla that was did you 561 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 10: ever get close, Like, did you ever think he'd actually 562 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 10: take that offer for you to pull it down? 563 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 9: He said he was considering it, and then like and 564 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 9: then he was at some point he's like, it doesn't 565 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 9: feel right to pay to take this down. 566 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 10: Well, he ended up paying a lot more to take 567 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 10: it down, a lot more to take it down, bought 568 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,959 Speaker 10: Twitter to take it down. Yeah, I don't know if 569 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 10: you were aware of this that in January of twenty 570 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 10: twenty two, Elon at this point is complaining to the 571 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 10: CEO of Twitter, Peragagawall and saying, hey, you got to 572 00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 10: take down Elon jets. 573 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 4: So yeah, it's like it's about the same time. 574 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 9: So like during December, he's not happy with me, so 575 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 9: then he switches to the CEO. 576 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 10: And I think what's interesting about that timing is that 577 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 10: that's the same month he starts building a steak in Twitter. 578 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 9: You know what's interesting is there's an account right around 579 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 9: when I was suspended on all my accounts. 580 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 10: Well, the timing is certainly interesting now that you know, Okay, 581 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 10: he's reaching out to you, he's reaching out to the CEO, 582 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 10: nobody's taking this account down, and suddenly he starts building 583 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 10: a steak in the company. Do you think maybe he 584 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 10: had an issue or he wanted to sort of like 585 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 10: have a stake in Twitter so that he'd have more 586 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 10: say in whether or not your account existed. 587 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 9: That's definitely part of it. I would think, like the 588 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 9: time is too close. It just feels like he has 589 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 9: a really strong distaste towards me and like the account. 590 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 9: Like you ever watch like interviews of him and someone 591 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 9: brings up elon jet. It's not like it's a product 592 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 9: of mine. He makes it like about me and he 593 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 9: like hates it. 594 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 595 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 10: Yeah, he buys the company, and I I believe at 596 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 10: the point he said something in late twenty twenty two. 597 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 4: After November. 598 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 10: Yeah, November twenty twenty two, he says something along the 599 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 10: lines of, like, I believe in free speech so much, 600 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 10: I'm not even going to suspend you know, this account 601 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 10: that's tracking my plan. 602 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, my commitment to free speech. 603 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 3: Are you reading it? You turn your head, you have 604 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 3: it written on the wall or something, Yeah, I do 605 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 3: read it for us? 606 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 9: What does it say my commitment to free speech extends 607 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 9: even to not banning the account following my plane, even 608 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 9: though that is a direct personal safety risk. 609 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 10: That's right, So that's what he tweets in November. By December, 610 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 10: you're you're suspended, right, So what happens with like your 611 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 10: side of the story here from November when he says 612 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 10: I'm going to let this account exist to December when 613 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 10: he decides to ban you. 614 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 9: Yeah, so I was I was like thank you, you know, 615 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 9: like I appreciate that. And then that's December. And then 616 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 9: December twelfth and thirteenth, I get an email about someone 617 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 9: inside Twitter leaking that my account has visibility filter. So 618 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 9: I like, I post that and I make it public 619 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 9: and then like that's on the news. You know, there's 620 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 9: articles all about that during the weekend. And then December fifteenth, 621 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 9: I wake up and like all of my accounts are suspended, 622 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 9: and then for like a brief little bit of time 623 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 9: they get unsuspended. I tweet something that's like can I 624 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 9: have my eight dollars back or something, and then it 625 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 9: all gets suspended again, like I don't know what the 626 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 9: discrepancy is. And then like a few hours later, like 627 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 9: Elon comes out with this tweet that like, you know, 628 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 9: he said that his kid was being followed in a car. 629 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 10: Well, so we're gonna take a quick step back so 630 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 10: two important things I think you just pointed out. The 631 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 10: first is this idea of visibility filtering, right, which is 632 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 10: essentially limiting the distribution of a particular account, but without 633 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 10: telling anybody, right, Like you weren't alerted, at least not 634 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 10: officially from Twitter. It's not like they said, hey, Jack, 635 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 10: we're gonna, you know, cut distribution of Elon jet. 636 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 3: They just do it behind the scenes. 637 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 6: Yeah. 638 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 10: And I think we know that that did indeed happen 639 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 10: because Walter Isaacson wrote that in his biography of Elon 640 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 10: that then came out later that you know, he basically 641 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 10: cut your distribution. I think the interesting thing a few 642 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 10: days later, like the quick backstory for those who don't recall, 643 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 10: is that Elon lands in La. You know, the account 644 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 10: is tracking his plane lands in La twenty four hours later, 645 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 10: supposedly as Stoker follows a tesla that you know, he 646 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 10: thinks that Elon's in, but it's really Elon's son who's 647 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 10: in the tesla. And there's a Stoker incident at like 648 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 10: a gas station where they call the cops and all 649 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 10: this stuff, and Elon, you know, I will say, as 650 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 10: a father, rightfully sort of freaks out in the sense 651 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 10: of like he thinks his young son is in danger, 652 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 10: but his reaction is not really to be mad at 653 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 10: the stalker. It's to go after you, Right, he says, 654 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 10: my young son's in danger, and this is all because 655 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 10: of Jack and the fact that he tracked my plane 656 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 10: to LA even though the incident happened twenty four hours later, 657 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 10: like you know, thirty miles away or whatever it may be. 658 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 3: Did you feel like, have you ever thought. 659 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 10: To yourself, well, maybe putting the fact that he landed 660 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 10: in La, did you know put him in danger? Like 661 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 10: does that ever does that seem reasonable at all to you? 662 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 10: Or does that seem just crazy? 663 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 9: Not for that event at all, Like it's just like 664 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 9: way too many disconnects between that and the facts we know. Yeah, 665 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 9: and like that night, so like Heke does of tweets 666 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 9: and then you know, he everybody that posts about Elon 667 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 9: Jef being suspended, there's tons of journalists that also get suspended. 668 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 10: Okay, so your account gets suspended. This is December twenty 669 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 10: twenty two, like a month after he takes over the platform. 670 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 10: I think ultimately he comes to sort of this compromise 671 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 10: where he says, you know, you can't track someone's location 672 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 10: in real time, but if you wait twenty four hours, 673 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 10: you know you can post his planes' location. But now 674 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 10: it's on a twenty four hour delay, do you feel 675 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 10: you're still doing it? So clearly you still see value 676 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 10: in posting it even though it's delayed. 677 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 9: Yeah, the thing is he posted, you know, like a 678 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 9: day after he posted, like should I unban the accounts 679 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 9: that did this or whatever? And you know everyone votes, yes, 680 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 9: all the journalists get unsuspended, but I don't. It's like, 681 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 9: why wasn't I given that chance? He changed the rules 682 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 9: suspended me back, like for stuff I did before changing 683 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 9: the rules, So I was never given a chance like 684 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 9: with those accounts. Yeah, and the elon Jet next day 685 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 9: on Twitter and my personal account, those are new accounts. 686 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 10: That's right, So you had to start over in terms 687 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 10: of followers and stuff. I'm curious if you've learned anything 688 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 10: from having followed him as closely as you have, right, 689 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 10: I mean, I I've learned a ton following elon Jet. 690 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 10: I think I told you this when I wrote a 691 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 10: book about Twitter, Battle for the Bird. I relied on 692 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 10: elon Jet a lot, just to know where he was 693 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 10: on particular days, where he was going and even employees 694 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 10: were using it to track like when's the boss going. 695 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 3: To be in the office. 696 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,919 Speaker 9: Yeah, even the early days, I remember I could see 697 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 9: like there were like executives that like would be following 698 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 9: it from Tesla Space. 699 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 3: Yes, what have you learned about him? Though? 700 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 10: Have you picked up behaviors or tendencies or anything you 701 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 10: know unique as someone who's followed him this. 702 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 9: Closely, He definitely spends like way more time on X 703 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 9: than SpaceX or Tesla now, at least in person. He 704 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 9: used to visit Brownsville so much for Star Base, Texas 705 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 9: for SpaceX, And there's a lot of San Jose now, 706 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 9: which is like how he gets to San Francisco and Austin. 707 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 9: The other thing is like about him personally, like you know, 708 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 9: I think he's smart, but like he'll have like these 709 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 9: impulsive things that he's not necessarily true about that he 710 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 9: thinks he's like right about as someone maybe in power, 711 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,359 Speaker 9: Like his tweets have kind of like a little bit 712 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 9: gone out of. 713 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 4: Control, Like even I not it's like there's typos. 714 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 9: And I'm like, come on, Like he's like starships are 715 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 9: meant to fly, and it said starships are mean to fly, like. 716 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 10: You know, uh, needs that edit button. I guess well, 717 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 10: Jack really appreciate you coming on Elon Inc. 718 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for having me. 719 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 6: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. 720 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 5: Naomi Shaven and Rayhan Harmansi are our senior editors. The 721 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 5: idea for this very show also came from Rayhan, Blake 722 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 5: Maple's Handles Engineering and Dave Purcell fact checks. Our supervising 723 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 5: producer is Magnus Hendrickson. 724 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 6: The Elon Inc. Theme is written and. 725 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 5: Performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendon Francis Newnham 726 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 5: is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head 727 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 5: of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to our 728 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 5: supporter Joel Weber. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, 729 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,479 Speaker 5: rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. 730 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 5: See you next week.