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Speaker 1: M hmm. What molesting children the devil? What is that

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Speaker 1: a bad way to open a show, Sophie, Well, no,

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Speaker 1: that's the only take. Try. Yeah, well I said it

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Speaker 1: was the Devil. I mean, no one likes the Devil

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Speaker 1: except for people who like the Devil. But this is

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Speaker 1: behind the Bastards, a podcast that will very soon be canceled. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm Robert Evans, and uh I'm back with with

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Speaker 1: h Jacob Hanrahand. Your full name isn't Jacob, does it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I just called you Jacob. Well that's what I'm calling

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Speaker 1: you forever now, Jake. That yeah, I have that power.

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Speaker 1: I am legally a reverend doctor. Both reference and doctors

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Speaker 1: get to name things, Sophie. The state of New Jersey says, so, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: the state of New Jersey has no say in somebody

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Speaker 1: who doesn't live in America. I think in New Jersey's

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction does in fact go across the Atlantic. It is

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Speaker 1: a coastal city. So back to the satanic panic, Jake,

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Speaker 1: how you doing? How you're holding up emotionally as we

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Speaker 1: tear in this? It's so good. Yeah, it's the worst.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into our main subject for the day,

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Speaker 1: which is the McMartin preschool trial. We're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: some other wild ass satanic panic bullshit that was kicking

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Speaker 1: off in the late seventies. And this this involves a

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Speaker 1: little game you might have played called Dungeons and Dragons.

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Speaker 1: You're played d DJ, which people play it. It looks

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Speaker 1: really really cool. It's rules like yeah, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: played that as a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing

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Speaker 1: Dungeon Dragons once and I just went in and was like, wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's fucking a great game. Great thing for kids. Also

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Speaker 1: really good for kids, like teaches you storytelling, teaches you

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Speaker 1: like a lot of I learned a lot about how

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Speaker 1: to do journalism well by just like the way that

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Speaker 1: you put together wis and stuff. But people find interesting

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Speaker 1: it's a great game. Uh, A lot of people disagreed

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Speaker 1: with that in the nineteen seventies. So in nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: when the game is about five years old, a sixteen

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Speaker 1: year old named James Dallas Egbert the Third vanished from

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Speaker 1: the steam tunnels under his school, which is where he

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Speaker 1: and his friends played what honestly sounds like a pretty

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Speaker 1: righteous game of D and D. That sounds so cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that sounds cool as hell. His family hired a private

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Speaker 1: eye to track him down, and that guy publicly theorized

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Speaker 1: that James's lef of Dungeons and Dragons contributed to his disappearance. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this was not true, but the press ran wild with it,

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Speaker 1: and while James was eventually found, he committed suicide shortly thereafter.

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Speaker 1: He was just very like, he chronically depressed kid, like,

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Speaker 1: a very sad story, nothing to do with D and D,

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Speaker 1: which was probably one of the few bright spots in

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Speaker 1: his life. Yeah, but obviously it was all blamed on

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Speaker 1: the game. In nineteen eighty one, the book Mazes and

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Speaker 1: Monsters was published on the case, and it was just nonsense.

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Speaker 1: It was followed shortly after by the nineteen eighty two

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Speaker 1: film adaptation starring Tom Hanks, which is a fucking if

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Speaker 1: you want to watch a terrible movie about how dn

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Speaker 1: D is the devil, Oh there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Mazes and fucking Monsters. So the private detective, who detective

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Speaker 1: who started all this, published his own book, The Dungeon Master,

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Speaker 1: where he clarified that D and D had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with James's disappearance or suicide, which he instead again

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Speaker 1: blamed on chronic depression, but by that point it was

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Speaker 1: way too late. In two, another kid named Irving Pulling

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Speaker 1: committed suicide since he had played in a school supervised

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Speaker 1: D and D game. His mother, Patricia, sued the school

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Speaker 1: in t s R. Dn d's publisher, blaming them for

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Speaker 1: her son's death because quote, he had received a curse

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Speaker 1: during a game session. Oh yeah, yeah, and it's it

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Speaker 1: is this like, you know, the kind of people who

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Speaker 1: played D and D in the nineteen fucking eighties were

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Speaker 1: big old nerds. Right nowadays it's gotten to be more mainstream,

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Speaker 1: but like, you're a pretty big nerd in the eighties

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Speaker 1: if you're playing D and D and you're probably bullied

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Speaker 1: to fucking back, right, you probably get kicked out of

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Speaker 1: you every day. You know. It was always like when

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Speaker 1: I watched old American films, it was like the nerds

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Speaker 1: would always be doing like a version of Yeah. So obviously,

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Speaker 1: like these kids who probably had a lot of ship,

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Speaker 1: that was tough in their lives because it's hard to

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Speaker 1: be a kid, and harder still if you're a kid

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Speaker 1: who gets the ship kicked out of them by bullies,

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Speaker 1: um killed themselves and instead of looking into anything else.

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Speaker 1: They're like, well, they played D and D. That must

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Speaker 1: have been it, right, Yeah, it's going to be that.

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Speaker 1: Patricia Pulling, Irving's mom, formed an advocacy group called Bothered

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Speaker 1: about Dungeons and Dragons or Bad and dedicated to securing

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Speaker 1: government Yeah, dedicated to securing government regulation of role playing games.

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Speaker 1: A sentence that I could not type without laughing and

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Speaker 1: can't read without laughing, Like the government needs to regulate RPGs.

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Speaker 1: It's very funny, um and like the Christian right being

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Speaker 1: what it is. You know, there was there were people

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Speaker 1: in the country who both supported the regulation of RPGs

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Speaker 1: role playing games, and also thought civilian should be able

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Speaker 1: to own rocket propelled grenades the other kind of art

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Speaker 1: scheme where has just had a bit of therapy, Like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's fucking great. So Pulling tried to sue TSR over

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Speaker 1: her son's death, but that didn't work because obviously there

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Speaker 1: was nothing to any of her claims. So instead she

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Speaker 1: dedicated herself to pumping out propaganda claiming that D and

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Speaker 1: D encouraged devil worship and suicide. Her pamphlets described D

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Speaker 1: and D as a fantasy role playing game which uses demonology, witchcraft, voodoo, murder, rape, blasphemy, suicide, assassination, insanity, sex, perversion, homosexuality, prostitutions,

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Speaker 1: satanic type rituals, gambling, barbarism, cannibalism, sadism, desecration, demon summoning, necromantics, divination,

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Speaker 1: and other teachings. Wow. Okay, well it sounds like cooler

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Speaker 1: game than it was actually. Um yeah. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that's weird about this to me is like the

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Speaker 1: guy I played D and D with when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid was like a fucking young Earth creationist, was

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Speaker 1: a great dungeon master and also believing was six thousand

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Speaker 1: years old. Um So, not every Christian had this attitude

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Speaker 1: about D and D, but it was real common on

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Speaker 1: the Christian right for a while. I actually found the

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Speaker 1: cover art for one of the books that Bad put out,

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty fucking wild. The jacket quote, which is

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Speaker 1: purportedly from some some young fan of D and D,

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Speaker 1: was the more I play D and D, the more

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Speaker 1: I want to get away from the world. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you might argue that this says more about the world

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Speaker 1: that these kids were growing up in during the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 1: The Dungeons and Dragons yeah, your life sucks. Your kid

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Speaker 1: pretend to be something that's not a kid that gets

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Speaker 1: bullied all the time, right, Yeah, of course you're going

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Speaker 1: to want to prefer that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the

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Speaker 1: book promises witchcraft, suicide, and violence inside and is marketed

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Speaker 1: towards educators, librarians, pastors, police and parents. And despite being

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Speaker 1: wrong about everything, Patricia was terrifyingly influential in both Christian

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Speaker 1: media and among law and for smith. Her books on

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Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons were so popular with evangelical pastors in

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Speaker 1: the US and in Australia, where she played a role

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Speaker 1: in propaganda distributed by the Australian Federation of Decency, which

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Speaker 1: is I guess a thing, and you know with a

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Speaker 1: name like Federation of Decency, that you're the worst people

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Speaker 1: in the country, right basically, like yeah, like anything we

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Speaker 1: don't like is devil. Yeah yeah, yeah exactly. So Patricia

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Speaker 1: Polling eventually got a p I S license and became

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Speaker 1: a consultant for law enforcement on a number of cases,

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Speaker 1: all of which the police lost. Yeah. She advised police

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Speaker 1: officers to open interrogations of teenagers with the question have

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Speaker 1: you read the Necronomicon or are you familiar with it? Fictional? Great,

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Speaker 1: she thought, like, h Lovecraft was a professor. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: what she did? Someone after decades after Lovecraft def published

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Speaker 1: a book called The Necronomicon to kind of cash in

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Speaker 1: on the fact that number one. Yeah, well it was.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't even a real book. No, it was like

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Speaker 1: so at one point, she told the news a newspaper

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Speaker 1: reporter that eight percent of Richmond, Virginia was Satanist, a

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Speaker 1: figure she'd arrived at by calculating that four percent of

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Speaker 1: teens and four percent of adults were devil worshippers. And

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Speaker 1: the reporter pointed out, like, well, that's actually just four

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Speaker 1: percent of the population. If it's it's four percent of

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Speaker 1: teens and four percent of adults, that's four percent of people.

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Speaker 1: And she told them that it didn't matter that her

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Speaker 1: math was wrong because her numbers were conservative. Just amazing.

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Speaker 1: That kind of attitude hasn't changed. No, right wing, No,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, we know what we mean. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I feel that it's true. So like the

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Speaker 1: fact that factually I'm just making ship up is fine. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that Patricia Poland was clearly incompetent and

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Speaker 1: wrong about everything and was still treated as a recognized

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Speaker 1: expert by law enforcement for years. Shou'd key you in

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Speaker 1: on a couple of things. One, cops generally aren't very

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Speaker 1: good at their job, and two, in nineteen eighties, it

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Speaker 1: was very easy to become an expert on Satanism as

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Speaker 1: long as you were good at scaring suburban moms and cops.

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Speaker 1: So all of this brings me to the centerpiece of

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Speaker 1: our story today, the McMartin preschool trial. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: still again the longest and most expensive trial in US history,

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Speaker 1: and I would contend it's also the very, very dumbest.

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Speaker 1: It started thanks to a young mother in distress named

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Speaker 1: Judy Johnson, and her story is about as heartbreaking as

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Speaker 1: it gets. Um, she's kind of the villain of this story,

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Speaker 1: but like it's fun. She's a bad situation. This lady,

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Speaker 1: she'd gotten into a bad marriage and she and her

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Speaker 1: husband only stuck together because they had a kid. And

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Speaker 1: then that child, their first child, got diagnosed with an

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Speaker 1: inoperable brain tumor at age eight, which would like just

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Speaker 1: destroy any parent, right, Like that's just gonna ruin you,

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Speaker 1: no matter who you are. And she was not a

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Speaker 1: superstable person. Before this happened, um doctors were not able

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Speaker 1: to help him, and so she developed an a rational

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Speaker 1: but understandable hatred of doctors in medicine, right, like, it's

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Speaker 1: not fair, But also like your kids, you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: so much anger over this that you're gonna blame somebody, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: you can't expect someone circumstance, no one would, uh, And

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Speaker 1: like a lot of people in this situation, Judy sought

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Speaker 1: refuge in religion. She carried a Bible with her everywhere

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Speaker 1: and was a very very hardcore fundamentalist and generally the

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Speaker 1: kind of fundamentalist you would expect to be worried about Satanism. Now,

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Speaker 1: you combine that with the fact that she was kind

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Speaker 1: of out of her mind with grief over a dying

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Speaker 1: child and the fact that her relationship with her husband imploded,

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Speaker 1: and you probably won't be entirely surprised at what she

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Speaker 1: does next, especially since it later came out she had

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Speaker 1: a series of schizophrenic breaks. So it also turns out

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Speaker 1: she's like, it's a horrible like she she's the villain,

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Speaker 1: and that she's responsible for the evil of this story.

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Speaker 1: You can't she's not morally responsible for any of her acts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it's yeah, she had a very bad hand and

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Speaker 1: as a result she creates as a result of that

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Speaker 1: and this cultural panic over Satanism and all of these

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Speaker 1: different legal structures that have been set up in our society,

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Speaker 1: she's able to do tremendous harm. And it's just a

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Speaker 1: horrible fucking story. Um. So Judy had another child, Matthew, um,

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Speaker 1: and he was like two years old. I think when

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Speaker 1: they moved, she and her husband moved to southern California. Um.

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Speaker 1: And they moved to Manhattan Beach, which is like a

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Speaker 1: very nice part of Southern California's basically Santa Monica. It's

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Speaker 1: like right on the coast. It's a fucking beautiful part

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Speaker 1: of the world. There's no parking, but there was back then. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was a paradise filled with places for people to

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Speaker 1: put cars in those days. Uh. And it had a

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Speaker 1: pre school called the McMartin Pre School, which was considered

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Speaker 1: the very best preschool in Manhattan Beach. Um. And like

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Speaker 1: so as the very nice preschool in Manhattan Beach, every

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Speaker 1: parent and one of their kids in there. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so Judy wanted her son, Matthew to be there. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Judy was a bit of a mess, and she failed

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Speaker 1: to enroll him before the school was full for that session.

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Speaker 1: Instead of finding another school, she dropped her two year

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Speaker 1: world child off off outside the school with a note

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Speaker 1: in his backpack that said, like you have to take him, basically,

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Speaker 1: like here's his name, and like deal with it. Yeah. Again,

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Speaker 1: she's not making very rational decisions here because she's profoundly ill. Um.

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Speaker 1: McMartin Preschool was founded by Virginia McMartin, who was in

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Speaker 1: I think her sixties at this point. Uh, And Virginia

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't think it's a great idea to

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Speaker 1: allow this kid here that his mom has basically trying

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Speaker 1: to force him on the school seems kind of sucked up.

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Speaker 1: But Virginia's daughter, Peggy, was more sympathetic and assumed that

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Speaker 1: a mom who would do something like this was had

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Speaker 1: to be going through some ship and that they should

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Speaker 1: help her out because these are very nice people. Um.

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Speaker 1: So they take Matthew in and he attends class for

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Speaker 1: a few months, and this proved to be a horrible

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Speaker 1: mistake because by this point Judy was not just out

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Speaker 1: of her mind with grief, she was also a hardcore

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Speaker 1: alcoholic and having schizophrenic episodes. So pretty bad situation, Jake, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote again from that book, Satan's Silence. That summer,

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Speaker 1: Judy Johnson became preoccupied with the condition of her younger

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Speaker 1: son's anus. In June, she would later tell the authorities.

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Speaker 1: Matthew come plained that it hurt when he made a

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Speaker 1: bowel movement. In July, she took him to a nearby

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Speaker 1: hospital emergency room, where she told the doctor that her

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Speaker 1: son's anus was itchy and that she thought she had

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Speaker 1: given him her vaginal infection. The doctor did not examine Matthew,

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Speaker 1: but he did treat Judy for vagenitis. A few weeks

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Speaker 1: later did he mentioned to her brother that Matthew's anis

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Speaker 1: was inflamed. She began making frequent inspections of her son's

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Speaker 1: rectal area. So a few things are going on here.

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Speaker 1: One is that again not a great, not a very

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Speaker 1: healthy household. This kid has bad hygiene, right uh. Also,

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Speaker 1: his mom is now daily poking and prodding his rectum

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Speaker 1: in order to check it, and that irritates it. And

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Speaker 1: she becomes convinced that the irritation that she is causing

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Speaker 1: is the is the result of sexual abuse, and she

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Speaker 1: grows convinced that this is because Matthew's teacher, a guy

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Speaker 1: named Ray Bucky, had sodomized her child repeatedly over the

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Speaker 1: course of the summer. Now, this is untrue, and one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons it's definitely untrue is that number one,

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Speaker 1: two year olds are very rarely sexually assaulted. Number two,

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Speaker 1: wind grown men penetrate to your children with their penises.

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Speaker 1: It either kills or severely injures the child. It causes

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Speaker 1: horrible injury, right, Like it's a terrible Yeah. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not like something you would miss exactly, and it's not

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Speaker 1: like it would be it would not be something you

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Speaker 1: had to inspect for like the kid would probably need

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Speaker 1: to go to a fucking hospital. Um. Yeah, So again,

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Speaker 1: her allegations are untrue. But Ray was kind of a

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Speaker 1: weird dude. He'd spent most of his young adulthood as

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Speaker 1: a California beach bum with kind of a well off family,

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Speaker 1: smoked a lot of pot um. He did this thing

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Speaker 1: that California surfer dudes did where he didn't wear underwear

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Speaker 1: underneath his board shorts, so like he had people. One

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Speaker 1: of the things people knew about ray is that sometimes

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Speaker 1: he would sit down he could see his balls like

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Speaker 1: it was like a thing. Not again, he's not doing

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Speaker 1: anything like bad. Like the most you could say is like, hey, dude,

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Speaker 1: maybe you should be wearing underwear because like people were

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Speaker 1: saying your balls all the time. Like, nothing bad. Just

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Speaker 1: kind of a weird dude. None of the kid children

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Speaker 1: he taught ever had any complaints about him. He seems

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Speaker 1: to have been a pretty unproblematic teacher. I've I've never

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Speaker 1: run across any evidence that he actually he did anything

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Speaker 1: bad ever. Um, but he was a weird guy, and

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Speaker 1: it was also weird in nineteen eighty three for a

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Speaker 1: young man to teach preschool. That was a woman's job, right,

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Speaker 1: This is still an area, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, just

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Speaker 1: as certain people were suspicious of working mothers in this

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Speaker 1: period of time and thought that like that was contributing

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Speaker 1: to the breakdown of the family, a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: were suspicious of young men in childcare and assumed that

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Speaker 1: they must have some multerior motive. Um. And Judy Johnson

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Speaker 1: was one of these people, and her suspicion of male

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Speaker 1: teachers meshed with her hatred of doctors brought on by

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Speaker 1: the tragic circumstances of her oldest son to produce again,

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Speaker 1: all of these are like perfect storm things, right, Like

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Speaker 1: that's the thing about all this ship, like it isn't

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Speaker 1: just erupt out of nowhere. So I'm gonna read another

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Speaker 1: fucking horrible quote. Lately, she had noticed how Matthew would

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Speaker 1: run around pretending that he was giving people shots. As

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Speaker 1: the popularity of toy Doctor Kits testifies, this behavior is

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Speaker 1: common for small children. And although Judy and although Judy

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Speaker 1: hated medical professionals, matt You had been exposed to them

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Speaker 1: regularly that summer since his brother was getting hospital treatment

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Speaker 1: for his tumor. Yet, Judy Johnson believed that Matthew had

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Speaker 1: no idea what an injection was, so she asked him

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Speaker 1: if Ray Bucky had given him shots. Again, he said no,

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Speaker 1: but she pressed. Finally, after repeated questioning, he told his

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Speaker 1: mother that Ray took his temperature. Judy concluded that the

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Speaker 1: thermometer must have been Bucky's penis. Oh my god, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just picturing like the kid running around filling

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Speaker 1: up like little shot glass like syringes, which is again,

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Speaker 1: like I think every kid probably as a period where

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Speaker 1: they play doctor and ship like it's a incredibly common thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she becomes convinced. And again when she first starts asking

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Speaker 1: her kid, did did Ray molest you? He says no.

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Speaker 1: And that's the case with all of these satanic child

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Speaker 1: abuse cases. The kids are always saying like, nothing happens

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Speaker 1: at first, which is again we talked about like believing victims.

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Speaker 1: Part of the problem is that people didn't and they

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Speaker 1: pushed the victims repeatedly to like, yeah, it's it's very bad.

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Speaker 1: So Judy calls the cops. Uh. And she took her

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Speaker 1: son to the hospital, and of course the doctor listened

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Speaker 1: to her story and examined her boy um. And again

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Speaker 1: the doctor is like, hey, when adult men sodomized two

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Speaker 1: year olds, it results in horrific damage. Uh, and a

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Speaker 1: summer worth of anal rape would be immediately apparent in

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Speaker 1: a boy this young. And the doctor saw no evidence

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Speaker 1: of that. All he saw was evidence that Matthews Rectam

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Speaker 1: was irritated in a way you'd expect if his mom

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Speaker 1: was constantly poking it. The doctor was like, your kid

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Speaker 1: seems okay, and he sent Judy away. This made her angry,

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Speaker 1: and again she fucking hates doctors and she kept, and

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Speaker 1: so she kept like. She started going to the police next,

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Speaker 1: and through a mix of coaching her son to talk

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Speaker 1: about a stranger's penis and speaking for her kid in

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Speaker 1: police interviews, which remember they take the mom's testimony about

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Speaker 1: what the kids said as direct testimony from the kid,

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Speaker 1: Judy is able to convince the cops that her son

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Speaker 1: had been abused. She and the cops shopped around for

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Speaker 1: doctors until they found an intern at U c l

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Speaker 1: A who had never diagnosed sex abuse cases before. This

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Speaker 1: intern sees Matthews wrecked them and it's like, oh, yeah,

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00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 1: something must have happened here. Again, he doesn't really know

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Speaker 1: what he's doing because he's not good at this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. Like the police like, yeah, let's find someone

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Speaker 1: to make the story true. You know, cops, I know,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's all so bad. It's all really bad.

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Speaker 1: It's so fucking terrible. So the long and the short

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Speaker 1: of this is the police opened an investigation into Ray Bucky,

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Speaker 1: and as soon as the word got out, people start

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Speaker 1: telling stories about Ray, not real ones, because again, he'd

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Speaker 1: never done anything, but the kinds of stories people tell

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Speaker 1: whenever someone a little weird gets accused of doing something terrible.

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Speaker 1: A week later, the police exacerbated this as cops are

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Speaker 1: want to do, by sending out a mass telephone request

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Speaker 1: asking if any other parents had been abused, and like,

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Speaker 1: the mass telephone request also has like, hey, please don't

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Speaker 1: tell anyone that we called you about this. But of

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Speaker 1: course everyone starts talking about it. It winds up in

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Speaker 1: the news and it starts spreading. And now what you

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Speaker 1: have all these parents going to their kids and being like,

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Speaker 1: were you listed? So Judy Johnson also keeps adding new

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Speaker 1: stories on about her son's abuse, claiming that Ray had

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Speaker 1: forced him to wear a bra because one time her

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Speaker 1: son had walked in on her dressing and said, Matthew

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Speaker 1: wear bra. Again, kid sees his mom wearing a bra,

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00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: doesn't really understand things, and it's like, oh, I want

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Speaker 1: to wear a bra. She interprets. This is like he's

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Speaker 1: been forced to wear a bra by his teacher. And also, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the day after this, she told police. Uh she so

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Speaker 1: she tells police this, and then the day after this

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Speaker 1: she starts claiming, based on the strength of vague comments

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Speaker 1: by a two year old, that Matthew had been tied

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Speaker 1: up with a rope by Ray. So again the story

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00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 1: keeps expanding, it gets more and more elaborate, and again,

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Speaker 1: the very concept of investigating child sex trauma was new

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Speaker 1: at this point, and the cops basically handed over responsibility

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Speaker 1: to this case to the few folks on their team

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Speaker 1: who had any training in this, and those people had

377
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 1: been trained to believe the children never lie or make

378
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 1: accusations based in fantasy. Again, that's the training too, in

379
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: addition to Michelle remembers and ship. So the cops keep

380
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 1: using the parents to ask if their kids had experienced anything,

381
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: and the parents, being people, start to get excited about

382
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: all the rumors flying around town. Some of them start

383
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: to talk to their kids, and after badgering their kids repeatedly,

384
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 1: those kids report what they think their parents want to hear.

385
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 1: Ray had taken weird pictures of them. You know, that

386
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 1: sort of stuff starts coming out. Now. The cops had

387
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,239
Speaker 1: searched raise home and found no photos, but whatever, like,

388
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,440
Speaker 1: it didn't matter that there was no evidence. The accusations

389
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 1: were out there. Poor boy, Oh, it's so worse. His

390
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: life is just shattered by It's fucked. It's completely fucked.

391
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Speaker 1: Satan's silence goes on to note that as this process

392
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 1: went on quote, other children embellished their stories. Within days,

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Speaker 1: Tanya Mrjuli had talked about being sodomized, and some of

394
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: her classmates said Ray had penetrated both of their rectums

395
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: and made them fillate him. They also named additional children

396
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: as victims, but when questioned, this new group denied anything

397
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 1: had happened. The police and many parents did not believe

398
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: the denials. They assumed that the children were keeping quiet

399
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: about the abuse, and they searched for telltale signs. One

400
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: woman said she noticed that her five year old daughter

401
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 1: was overly interested in her mother's genitals, and she vowed

402
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: to question them her further. Donna Murgilli remembered that since

403
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: the beginning of the year, Tanya had been plagued with

404
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: vaginal infections. Until now, Donna Antonia's doctors had attributed the

405
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 1: problem to poor hygiene, possibly due to the fact that

406
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: Tanya had been masturbating regularly since shortly after the birth

407
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: of her baby brother. Now, Tanya's vaginitis seemed to have

408
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 1: a more sinister origin. Police detectives urged parents to take

409
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: their children to u c l a IF for team evaluations.

410
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: These goings on were openly discutched disgusted in Manhattan Beaches,

411
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: markets and churches and its ocean front promenade. So again,

412
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: this all just goes viral, you know, and these kids

413
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 1: who all deny it at first start being pushed into

414
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: recalling abuse. By the end of September nineteen three, many

415
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: of the children who had at first denied any abuse

416
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: at all suddenly started coming up with elaborate stories about

417
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: what they'd suffered. Satan's Silence goes into very good detail

418
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 1: over all this, but to be honest, it is some

419
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: of the darkest shit I've ever read. For some reason,

420
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,679
Speaker 1: detailed stories of children being convinced they were raped by

421
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: an innocent man is actually a more disturbing to me

422
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 1: than stories of actual child abuse. It's just it's so

423
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,479
Speaker 1: fucked all of this stuff. For example, for an example

424
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: of how this ship went down, a popular nursery rhyme

425
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: at the time was what you say is what you are?

426
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: You're in naked movie star. It's just like some nonsense

427
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 1: kids would say, right, there's a bunch of ship like that. Yeah, right,

428
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: just ship kids say. Most people would recognize this as that,

429
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 1: But all of the adults in Manhattan Beach were by

430
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: this point fully off of their goddamn rockers, and the

431
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: fucking police detectives have decided that children who werecalled playing

432
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: this game, we're providing evidence that they'd be sexually traumatized

433
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: by Ray Buckey because the Naked movie Star game they

434
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: called it, like, it's just like fucking making horrible ship

435
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,239
Speaker 1: out of absolutely nothing. So as this all expands, these

436
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 1: kids get sent to a social worker named Ki McFarlane

437
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: and Ki McFarland for an example of her background. She

438
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: she's very involved in, like the child protection movement, all

439
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,479
Speaker 1: of this stuff we talked about last episode. She's involved

440
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: in like this kind of growing movement to try to

441
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: like do group therapy sessions. When I told you about

442
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: someone who was like, oh, I like these group therapy

443
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 1: sessions because they're like like public like self criticism sessions

444
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: that like leftist political groups. Dude, that's Ki McFarlane. So

445
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: she's that kind of person going into this um. And

446
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: again I think her motivation was good, but she is

447
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: another person who does horrific damage. And her main innovation

448
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: was that she had developed a series of anatomically correct

449
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: dolls little kids could use to discuss describe their abuse.

450
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: Now this could be a useful development for kids who'd

451
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: been abused, and we're too young to verbalize it. But

452
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: the problem is that Key used her dolls to make

453
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: kids feel like they were in playtime, and then she

454
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: would tell stories about the abuse she thought they'd suffered,

455
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: and kids, little kids being little kids, would start talking

456
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: about this thing, right because they think they're in playtime

457
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: and ship did you know? Um? Sorry, But one of

458
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 1: the most ironic things here to me is that the

459
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: actual child abuse in this case, at least, was from

460
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: all the people trying to do the child abuse right,

461
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: Like they're abusing these kids by planning this up on

462
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: them and putting them through this, Yeah, fucking them up

463
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: probably for life, like you can't go through this, and

464
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: like repeatedly interrogated about the rape that like, god, damn it,

465
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: it's so bad. But you know what's not nasty, Jake? Yeah,

466
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: the products and services to support this podcast. We're back. Ah,

467
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: Those ads were a lot better than manipulating children and

468
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: the believing they were the victims of massive sexual abuse.

469
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: That's what I say about what Sophie. That counts us

470
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: a nice thing I said about the products. Okay, well,

471
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: Will Roberts still have a job by the end of

472
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: this record. So yeah, so Ki McFarland, we're talking, we're

473
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: talking k M k mc fee. So she she she

474
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: has these dolls and she yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna

475
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: read you a quote to talk about like how she

476
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: uses these dolls from a right up by the University

477
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: of Missouri Kansas School of Law. That's kind of analyzing

478
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: this case. Um, so here's yeah, how this all goes.

479
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: Parents were encouraged to send their children to see I I,

480
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: which is the place she worked at, For two hour interviews.

481
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: McFarland pressed four hundred children through a series of leading

482
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: question and the offer of rewards to report instances of

483
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: abuse at McMartin. Children generally denied seeing any evidence of

484
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: abuse at first, but eventually Mini gave McFarland the story

485
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: she clearly wanted to hear. After the interviews, McFarland told

486
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: parents that their children had been abused and described the

487
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: nature of the alleged abuse. By March nine, three hundred

488
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: and eighty four, former McMartin students had been diagnosed as

489
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: sexually abused three hundred and eighty four. But well, no,

490
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: we're getting into that. It starts to expand massively. So,

491
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: in addition to interviews, a hundred and fifty children received

492
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: medical examination. Dr Astrid Hager, who was one of McFarland's colleagues,

493
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: concluded that eighty percent of the children she examined had

494
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: been molested. For the most part, she based her findings

495
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: not on physical evidence, but on medical histories and her

496
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: belief that any conclusion should validate the child's history, which

497
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: is not how you do science, you know, yeah, no,

498
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: not good medicine. So to make it clear just how

499
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: coercive McFarland's methods were, I want to read a passage

500
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: about her interrogation of a little girl named Tanya. Long

501
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: after most McMartin kids had been pushed into inventing lurid

502
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: stories of abuse. Tanya held her ground that her teachers

503
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: had done nothing wrong. But Tanya's mother eventually broke down

504
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: in the face of all the other parents who'd grown

505
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: convinced that their kids had been abused, and she sent

506
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: Tanya to Kie McFarland. Kim McFarland's technique with Tanny was

507
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: much more refined. Before asking the child anything about sex abuse,

508
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: McFarland spent several minutes, engaging her in fantasy play. Oh Froggy.

509
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: McFarland squeaked as she and Tany manipulated a frog puppet

510
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: and a toy doctor kit. I think you have a

511
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: little temperature here. The two played with the banana Puppet,

512
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: Big Bird, Mr Doggie, Mr Dragon, Cookie, Monster Bugs Bunny,

513
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: Mr Alligator, pac Man, and Mr Snake. Not until Tanya

514
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: was deeply absorbed in the world of pretended, McFarland present

515
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: her with a collection of very special dollies in this

516
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: little bag. They look like real people underneath we can

517
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: take off their clothes. Tanya then identified the dolls we

518
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: weise chee cheese, which is what you called breasts, butts weenie,

519
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: and the naugas hole or vagina. McFarland proceeded to ask

520
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: Tanny if she had ever seen a man's weany her daddy's,

521
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: Tanya answered. McFarland was not satisfied. How about someone else,

522
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: I don't know who else? Another man? Still, Tanya existed,

523
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: insisted she had only seen her father's. Well, I know

524
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: some secrets, said McFarland, and I know that you know

525
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: them too. You know what I know some secrets about

526
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: year old school? When Tanya still didn't respond. McFarland added

527
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: that she had seen the little girl's friends from mcmartin's

528
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: and they told her all the bad secrets. We can

529
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: have a good time with the dolls, McFarland coaxed, and

530
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, we can talk about some of those bad

531
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: secrets if you want to, and then they could go away.

532
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be a good idea? Urging puppets on Tanya,

533
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: she again asked if she knew bad secrets. Uh, Tanya

534
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: shook her head. Then maybe she could figure them out.

535
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: McFarland's said she should off her secret machine and assured

536
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: Tanya that she would feel better if she told it

537
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: bad things about Ray. I hate those secrets, Tanya finally said,

538
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: addressing a bird puppet on McFarland's hand. Ray Ray did

539
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: bad things and I don't even like it. Do you

540
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: see what happens here? Yeah? I just thinking though, like that, Tanya, right,

541
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: what a like strong minded child was just absolutely not

542
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: like literally just pushed to the point of like committing

543
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: something that didn't happen. Yeah, you know, like despite all that, Yeah,

544
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: and again like it really has the problem here is

545
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: not that like you shouldn't believe children when they report rebus.

546
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: It's that you shouldn't badge your children who insists they

547
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: haven't been abused into it. It's yeah, there's part of

548
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: me that's like, right, I get it. If if any

549
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: parent heard anything like that, you'd be like, oh, yeah,

550
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: but this is beyond that. This is like literally that

551
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: woman planning these ideas. Yeah, it's so bad. Yeah, and

552
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: I don't like I think McFarland. McFarland had a long

553
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: history of working with abused kids, like before anyone, before

554
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: people even really believed that it happened. She was doing

555
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: that work, and she came from a good place, but

556
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: she goes fully. I mean, like what she's doing is

557
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: evil here, Yeah, exactly. Now, the McMartin case didn't start

558
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: off as a satanic ritual affair. You'll notice, like we

559
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: haven't been talking about like the devil in this case yet, right,

560
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: But you have to remember that stories about other such cases,

561
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: like the ones we discussed last episode in Kerrent County,

562
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: we're all over the news and Current County was only

563
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: like two hours away from McMartin. Both parents and students

564
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: were hearing all the ship on TV. And the kids

565
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: are hearing this ship on TV. And as these kids

566
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: are getting interrogated and has to give more information, they

567
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: start to make up ship based on the stuff they're

568
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: hearing on fucking television, right, and also based on the

569
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: stuff they're being told by their parents. And this starts

570
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: with Matthew Johnson, who again his mom is the the

571
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: very very sad story lady m who is very Christian

572
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: and believes in all this stuff. And she starts, she

573
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: starts pushing her son to tell stories of not just

574
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: being molested by Ray, but by being of being molested

575
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: by McMartin teacher Betty Raider, who was sixty four years

576
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: old at the point. And the more Matthew said, the

577
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: more his mom praised him, and she started to suspect

578
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: that the McMartin school had been the center of a

579
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: vast network of pedophile Satanist because again, she's profoundly ill

580
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: and an alcoholic. By January nine four, matt was telling

581
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: stories of being molested at a ranch. And I'm gonna

582
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: read one of the transcriptions Judy made of her son's stories.

583
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: And keep in mind parents could enter statements they coaxed

584
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: out of their kids into the legal record and authorities

585
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: treated this as a direct statement from the child because

586
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: kids and kids are also, you know, incapable of making

587
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: things up. So this is the statement she coaxes out

588
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: of her son, or at least says that she coaxes

589
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: out of her son. Who knows what how much he

590
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: he fucking said. Matthew feels that he left l a

591
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: international in an airplane and flew to Palm Springs. Matthew

592
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: went to the armory. The goatman was there. It was

593
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: a ritual type atmosphere at the church. Peggy drilled the

594
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: child under the under the arms armpits. Peggy's one of

595
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: the teachers. Under the arms and armpits. Atmosphere was that

596
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: of magic arts. Ray flew in the air Peggy, Abs

597
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: and Betty were all dressed up his witches. The person

598
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: who had buried matt Who buried Matthew, she said he

599
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: had been buried, is miss Betty. There were no holes

600
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: in the coffin. Babs went on him with a went

601
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: with him on a train and an older girl where

602
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: he was hurt by men in suits. Ray waved goodbye.

603
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: Petty gave Matthew an enema. Staples were put in Matthew's ears,

604
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: his nipples in his tongue. Babs put scissors in his eyes.

605
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: She chopped up animals. Matthew was hurt by a lion.

606
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: An elephant played. A goat climbed up higher and higher,

607
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: and then a badman threw it down the stairs. Lots

608
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: of candles were there, they were all black. Ray pricked

609
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: his right pointer finger put it in the goat's anus.

610
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: Old Grandma played the piano. A baby's head was chopped

611
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: off and the brains were burned. Peggy had a scissors

612
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: in the church and she cut Matthew's hair. Matthew had

613
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: to drink the baby's blood. Ray wanted Matthews spit. You

614
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: see what they said, like this is a kid, it's nonsense,

615
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: like they're fucking elephants in it, Like right, but surely

616
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: the police would have looked him like there's no wounds. Nope,

617
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: And why did she let him go on a plane

618
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: with strangers if she was already worried about No, he

619
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: didn't she none of this happened. Yeah, but like she

620
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: claimed that this was like while he was at school

621
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: for eight hours, they took him on a plane to

622
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: Palm Springs and like they were goatmen. Like it's all

623
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: it's clearly like a kid being coaxed into coming up

624
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: with fantasies. And they sound like a child's fantasies. This

625
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: isn't what happens in sex abuse cases. There are very

626
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: early elephants. It sounds like her fantasies, you know what

627
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Like not fantasy, but it's clearly some ships.

628
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: Like I can't believe that the police ever got serious. Yep,

629
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: they super do. Once the news broke that Satanists were

630
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: behind the purported abuse at McMartin, other kids came forward

631
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: with an avalanche of stories of devil worship, child sacrifice, etcetera.

632
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: Kids talked about watching babies get murdered and all sorts

633
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: of wild ship. And one of the things that they

634
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: would claim in this period, because this happens all over

635
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: the Satanic panic, is there's claims people will claim I

636
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: sacrifice babies or I saw babies sacrificed like all of

637
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: this ship and that people would ask like, well, but

638
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: there's no nobody was murdered, like, there's no reports of

639
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: dead people. So they developed this whole theory that Satanists

640
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: had a tactic of having children at home and not

641
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: getting them birth certificates so that they could have babies

642
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: to sacrifice that the state didn't know about. Like, yeah,

643
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: it's it's a cute, Yeah you had the Like the

644
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: most insane theory is that the video of Hillary cutting

645
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: a baby's face off and wearing it, and it's like

646
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: none of them have seen it. They're like, oh, we

647
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: know it's there, do you know? It's like I don't

648
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: think you do, because that would be like the only

649
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: thing the news talked about for like a year if

650
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: it happened, right, like a thought that was real the people.

651
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: I mean, well, I don't know if someone would be

652
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: on it, you know, yeah, someone would be on it,

653
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: and it would be like the top topic of discussion

654
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: nationwide world. Yeah, Like like I look at how much

655
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: people discussed when Hillary Clinton fell down that one time,

656
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: Like if she was killing babies, it would be huge.

657
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: Hundred people know the video exists, but we're all dumb

658
00:33:54,240 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: because we don't believe it's amazing. So yeah, it's all yeah. Again,

659
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: there's no evidence of any of this stuff. There's no

660
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: evidence of any baby's getting killed, there's no evidence of

661
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: any plane trips to Palm Beach, but also authorities, the cops,

662
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: and the parents believed every word of this because at

663
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: this point complete mania had overtaken Manhattan Beach. Like everyone

664
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: is out of their goddamn minds at this point. And

665
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: some of it's understandable, like their parents who legitimately think

666
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: that there's a child rape epidemic at their school that

667
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: their kids were involved in. Like nobody's thinking anymore in

668
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: Manhattan Beach, right. Yeah. The whole thing as well though,

669
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: is like I think the police, oh, but like the

670
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: police kind of abusing the phears of her Absolutely, it's horrible.

671
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote again from the University of Missouri, Kansas

672
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: is right up here. Judy Johnson's reports of misbehavior at

673
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: the mcmartin's school preschool became increasingly bizarre. She claimed that

674
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: Peggy bucky raised mother, was involved in Satanic practices. She

675
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: was said to have taken Johnson's sun to a church

676
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: where the boy was made to watch a baby being

677
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: beheaded and then forced to drink the blood. She insisted

678
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: that Ray Bucky had atomized her son while his head

679
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: was in the toilet, and had taken him to a

680
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: car wash and locked him in the trunk. Johnson told

681
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: police that Ray pranced around the pre school in a

682
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: cape in a Santa Claus costume, and that other teachers

683
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: at the school chopped up rabbits and placed some sort

684
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: of star on her Son's bottom. Eventually, most prosecutors would

685
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: come to recognize Johnson's allegations as the delusions of a

686
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: paranoid schizophrenic, but the snowball of suspicion had been started rolling.

687
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: Chief cool Meyer's letter led to Newt which is the

688
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: letter he like sent out to parents, led to new

689
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: accusations and demands from parents for a full scale investigation

690
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: of doings at the McMartin preschool. Bowing to this pressure,

691
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: pressure at the district attorney's office handed a major portion

692
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: of the continuing investigation over to Ki McFarlane. So oh no, really,

693
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: it's puppet lady. It's so fucked up, God, like the

694
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 1: worst person. You give it to her. Let her investigate

695
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: the preschool, the person whose job is absolutely not to investigate,

696
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: like man of criminal conspiracies. Yeah yeah again. No physical

697
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: evidence was ever uncovered of any sort of abuse or

698
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: anything else illegal. The closest thing they had to evidence

699
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: was that softcore porn mags were found in Ray Bucky's home,

700
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: which like yeah, yeah, and they're like playboys, Like it's

701
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: not even anything that's like you could say, is like

702
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: super raunchy, right, Like, none of this stopped the case

703
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: from going forward. On March twenty two, nineteen eighty four,

704
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: a grand jury indicted Ray Bucky, Peggy, Bucky Peggy and Bucky,

705
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: Virginia McMartin, and three other McMartin teachers. These seven people

706
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: were initially indicted on one hundred and fifteen counts of

707
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: child sexual abuse. Two months later, they were indicted on

708
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: another ninety three counts. The case had become a political

709
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: issue for the d A Robert Philiposian, who was facing

710
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: re election and thought that putting away some Satanists would

711
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: help his chances. Now, most of the McMartin seven were

712
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: held with outrageous bails. Ray Bucky was held without bail,

713
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: and he spends five years in jail as a ristle

714
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: in jail as a child molester, which like just yeah, yeah, yeah,

715
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's they just destroy this man. Now. As

716
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: the case proceeded, all of the McMartin seven had their

717
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: homes searched. Nothing was found. By this point children were

718
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: telling stories about secret tunnels under the school and being

719
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: forced to bury ritually murdered babies. And of course, since

720
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: the cops aren't finding anything, a lot of McMartin parents decided, like,

721
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: what the cops have to be in on it because

722
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: they're not finding any of the evidence that's got to

723
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: be there. So the parents take it upon themselves to investigate, right,

724
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: so we get we finally get um. In March of

725
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, as the case war on fifty McMartin

726
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: parents showed up at a lot next to the school

727
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: and started digging to try to find the caves under

728
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: the school, literally literally digging. Yeah, and the d a,

729
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 1: who again wants to get reelected, hires an archaeological firm

730
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: to help them. Oh my god. And they're all certain

731
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: that it's also just bizarre to have people who's like,

732
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: like people have job titles and training for a reason. No,

733
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: they don't, fuck it, Who are going to figure this out? Ye?

734
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, everyone is certain that they're gonna dick find

735
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: mass graves and caves underneath the school filled with like

736
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: that's where the evidence has got to be, is the

737
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: caves under the school. They don't find anything because there's

738
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: nothing there because no one at the mcmartins school had

739
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: been molestic kids, you know. Um, So the actual court case, thankfully,

740
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: there is a period here where some rationality enters into it,

741
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: because the actual court case against the McMartin seven runs

742
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: into immediate problems over the fact that there is no

743
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: evidence that anyone's actually been harmed in any way, shape

744
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: or form. Um. Yeah, but this is five years into

745
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: a jail sentence for this guy. Well no, not not yet.

746
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 1: This is like through I mean the trial takes actually

747
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 1: twenty eight months just the trial, and of course there's

748
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,919
Speaker 1: years before this where all of this is building. Yeah,

749
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: he spends five years in jail. Um. So again there's

750
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: no evidence at any point, and that's the actual court

751
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: case runs into the massive problem of the complete lack

752
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: of evidence. But all of these people have already been

753
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: convicted in the court of public opinion, and in fact,

754
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: the d A announced quote the primary purpose of the

755
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: McMartin preschool was to solicit young children to commit lud

756
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: conduct with the proprietors of the school, and also to

757
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: procure young children for pornographic purposes. His assistant announced that

758
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: millions of child porn films of the victims existed. The

759
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: media dutifully reported on all of this, even though again

760
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: no evidence of this had ever been found. Millions said millions,

761
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: millions found not not ever, not nothing, assistant assistant to

762
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: some weird stat And again, part of this is the

763
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: problem that is starting to get better in American media,

764
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: but it's still pretty bad. Where the police say something

765
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: and journalists don't investigate it. They say, oh, the police

766
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 1: said this, this has to be the truth. Let's report

767
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: on what the police said. And it's like, well know,

768
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: they lie all the time, right, And you get like

769
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: any kind of like the un might say something or

770
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: say anything against it, people like, oh, here we go conspiracy,

771
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: Like no, it's your job, like question people in power, Yeah,

772
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: that's journalism. And also all of these groups have lied

773
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: on a number of occasions, let me list them. It's

774
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: not a conspiracy to say that people in power lie

775
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: exactly right, Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's what the it's

776
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: what you do if you have powers you yeah. Yeah.

777
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: So people magazine called McMartin California's Nightmare Nursery Time published

778
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: an article with the one word title brutalized, Like media

779
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: goes whole hog on this ship, not all of them,

780
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: because again, okay, so the the authors of Satan's Silence,

781
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: which have been quoting from our journalists during this period,

782
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: and there's some of like the only people seemingly in

783
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: the country who are like this is nonsense, Like all

784
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: of this is nonsense. What is wrong with you people?

785
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: And they like their book is published like right around

786
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: the time that all of this, like all these cases

787
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: start to fall apart, like Satan's Silence is from that time.

788
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: That's part of why it's such a good Um. I mean,

789
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: it's also is where I got all the background of

790
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: like what set this up. I can't say enough about

791
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: what a good book it is if you want to understand, Yeah, yeah,

792
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: very good journalists. Um yeah, it's a good book. Um.

793
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: So yeah. All these lies about the McMartin teachers led

794
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: to a lynch mob mentality within the community of Manhattan Beach.

795
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: Peggy Bucky was stabbed in the crotch by a random

796
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: man while she was out on the street. The school

797
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: was lit on fire and spray painted with graffiti that

798
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: said Ray must die. Several parents went so far is

799
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: to solicit the services of a hitman to bomb Peggy's

800
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: car like off the No, it never like yeah, they

801
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: just like the first episode, we're basically talking about people

802
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: filling a car up with gas and then they just

803
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: put a brick on the brakes. There's no one at

804
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: the wheel. It just goes sucking careening into the city. Yeah,

805
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: it's fucking it's so bad. It's like to tell though,

806
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: like such a portionary tale. It's it's so important that

807
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: people know about this exact Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, I'm

808
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 1: gonna quote again from Satan's silence about like how out

809
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: of control ship gets in Manhattan Beach. The fact that

810
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: the accused were behind bars did not calm the frenzy

811
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: running through the South Bay as parents and authorities pursued

812
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: Judy Johnson's claims and became convinced that mcmartin's staff was

813
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: only one arc of a gigantic sex ring. Searching for

814
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: the other accomplices, parents formed investigative squads armed with address

815
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: lists supplied by c I I, which is what McFarland

816
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: worked at. UH. They drove to their sons and daughters

817
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: around to find molestation sites like the Devil House, which

818
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 1: is like what the kids had just been making shut up,

819
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: and they were trying to find real locations that clearly weren't.

820
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: As the children pointed their fingers at homes and businesses,

821
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: mothers and fathers wrote down addresses and submitted them to

822
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: the d a's office, which in turn distributed them to

823
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: more parents, and and they're like, hey, we hear this

824
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: business might be involved in mass child sex abuse, as

825
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: your kid's been near it, like just and it's just

826
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: like they're just firing a shotgun into a crowd basically,

827
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: like they're just shattering lines left and right, like right,

828
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: like it's so bad. A father staked out nearby commuter

829
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: airports and copied registration numbers off the tales of planes,

830
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: while reporting suspicious characters such as the female pilot who

831
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: maybe a lesbian. The kids are, yeah, yeah, buck them,

832
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: because again the kids are talking about how they were

833
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: flown places. So like some dad shows up to take

834
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: down all the plane the in numbers on planes, Um, yeah,

835
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: so is the primarily besides word of mouth? Is this

836
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: just like grocery store magazine covers? Is that what it

837
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: is that's getting this information out of you know, major

838
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: news and the and the d a's office. The cops

839
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: are calling people and being like, we hear about this

840
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: happening in this school or this building. It's not it's

841
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: like tabloid. It's like there's like credible quote unquote credible. Yeah,

842
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 1: like fucking Time is reporting on this ship. Most people

843
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: trust Time, Like you could argue Time magazine actually a

844
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: long history of shitty journalism, but like the people, Yeah, yeah,

845
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: it's not like the National Enquirer spreading ship. It's like

846
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: looking like the d a's office. You're supposed to theoretically

847
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: be able to trust the d A. If you're like

848
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: a random citizen, you would assume that they're not just

849
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: spreading nasense. But that's why you shouldn't assume that. Can

850
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: you take a can you take an addie addie break? Yeah?

851
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: So if you know who doesn't spread nonsense about mass satanic,

852
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: pedophilic conspiracy is that chatters the lives of human beings

853
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: like a cluster bomb. I mean, i'd certainly hope you'd

854
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: say the products and services that support this show, that's right,

855
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: not a one of them. Fantastic. Okay, we're back, So

856
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to continue that quote about just how out

857
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: of control things get. The paranoia was all encompassing. One parent.

858
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: Jackie mcgauley, who had a two year old daughter enrolled

859
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: at McMartin pre school for a short time after the

860
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: investigation started, came to believe that Ray Bucky had molested

861
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: her child, even though the police were watching watching him closely.

862
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: At this time, she also became suspicious about many other people,

863
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: including a local newspaper columnists she was dating. When the

864
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: two broke up, mcgalley accused him of sexual abuse. Later,

865
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: she made the same charge against a worker at the

866
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: rich Stone Center where her daughter went for therapy. Her

867
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: allegations never went anywhere, but were lost amiddle wash of

868
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: outlandish claims, including rumors that the mayor's wife was ferrying

869
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: corpses around in her station wagon. At times, people who

870
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: spread these stories ended up accusing each other. One couple,

871
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: for instance, through a celebratory party for McMartin children and

872
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: their parents the day the teachers were arrested. Later there

873
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: were whisperings that those two were accomplices because the rumor

874
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: went Their business was located next to the athletic club

875
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: where Matthew Johnson and later other children said they had

876
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: been molested. Yep, you just can't go anywhere anything. Yeah,

877
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: because again, everyone's lost their fucking minds at this point, Like, yeah, exactly,

878
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: it's a sort of collective insanity that's taken home here. Yeah.

879
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: As the trial wore down, Judy Johnson broke down completely.

880
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: Her husband left her, and she of course immediately accused

881
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: him of being part of a vast satanic pedophile conspiracy.

882
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: She eventually barricaded herself and her children and her small

883
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: home with like a pile of guns. She threatens her

884
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: brother when the twelve gage shotgun when he flies in

885
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: from out of town to help, and she's eventually taken

886
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: forcibly two way psyche atric hospital, where she's diagnosed with

887
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: paranoid schizophrenia. Police who searched her home found a cash

888
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: of guns and AMMO, including a rifle, under the bed

889
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: of her cancer written son, who told cops that he

890
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: would kill them to protect his mom because he's been

891
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: like they've all been, and like finished, it's terrible And yeah,

892
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 1: I mean he dies shortly thereafter because of the untreated

893
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: brain tumor, and so does his mom. She dies from

894
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: massive liber deterioration caused by alcoholism. Um, it's just a

895
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: terrible just a nightmare of a story all around, like again,

896
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: and she's responsible for a lot of this, all this starting,

897
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: but also like fuck yeah, just a fucking horrible, horrible tragedy.

898
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: Everything about it's terrible. Ultimately for me, I'm just thinking,

899
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 1: like what the funk were the police doing? Like they

900
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: facilitated this, They absolutely did, But again they're also not

901
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 1: the smartest people tend to join the police force, and

902
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: they're being told, they're being trained in a lot of

903
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: cases that satanic ritual sex conspiracies are a major problem

904
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: in America and an absolutely real thing. People believed this ship.

905
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 1: There's a great video called um Defending Yourself against Edged Weapons,

906
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: I think, and it's like a police training video that

907
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: I believe was made in the eighties, And it's actually

908
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: a pretty good training video if you actually want very

909
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: practical training on like how dangerous fucking knives are. It's

910
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: all about like knives are fucking horrifying. But there's a

911
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: scene in it because they like recreate a bunch of

912
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: scenes where like cops get stabbed, and one of the

913
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: scenes they're like busting up a satanic covin And it's

914
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: not like a joke. Think they thought that this was

915
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: the thing that happened. Um, it's it's fucking something else.

916
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: So on November two nine, after twenty eight months of testimony,

917
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: that McMartin case went to a jury who spent two

918
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: and a half months deliberating. They acquitted Peggy Bucky on

919
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 1: all charges and wound up deadlocked on Ray Bucky. Jury

920
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: four person Louis Chang noted the interview tapes were too

921
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: biased to leading. That's the main crux of it. Another

922
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: juror told reporters whether I believe he did it or

923
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: whether it and whether it was proven are very differ print.

924
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: Judge Pounders offered his own appraisal of the verdict. I

925
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: was not surprised by the verdicts. I would not have

926
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: been surprised at any decision that Jerry made. The judge

927
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: basically being like everything like who the funk knows, Like

928
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 1: everything is so out of control at this point nothing

929
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: could surprise me. Yeah, and that's kind of like he

930
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 1: says some stuff to that effect of like I'm just

931
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: glad like to not be involved in the ship anymore.

932
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: Like this is so this of course, outraged child protection

933
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 1: groups and parents across the country. Five hundred people, including

934
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: dozens of McMartin parents, marched through the streets of Manhattan

935
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: Beach with signs that said, we believe the children good stuff. Well,

936
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: but then abody. One TV poll at the time noted

937
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: that of respondents thought the BUCkies were guilty. In the end,

938
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: no one was convicted of any crimes at the McMartin preschool.

939
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 1: But Ray Bucky still, you know, spent five years ago.

940
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: These people's lives are just shattered. Like it's just a

941
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: mean a woman got stopped in the cross. Yeah, Like

942
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: it's so fucking it's so bad. Yeah, And like the

943
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: super fun thing, Jake, you're gonna love this part. The

944
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: super fun thing about the Satanic panic is that the

945
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: complete lack of evidence and the acquittal of all of

946
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: the charged people and what became the nation's longest and

947
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: most expensive court case, did nothing to quell the public

948
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: witch hunts. Again. They spent fifteen million dollars on this

949
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: case and can't find a goddamn thing. Well, the McCartin

950
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: trial was going on Kern County, which we talked about

951
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: the end of the first episode. Right that first case

952
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: interrupts again into a series of allegations of mass child

953
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: rape networks. The cases never go anywhere, and they're all

954
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: hampered by the fact that all of the cops, lawyers,

955
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: and judges involved in every given case like inevitably get

956
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: to cry it a secret satanic child molesters themselves, like

957
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: they get added into conspiracy. It's really blocks off the trials,

958
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: like now the judges being accused. It's like like the

959
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: just the community loses goddamn mind. Hundreds of innocent people

960
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: in the ensuing panic get charged all over the country,

961
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 1: many of them did time in jail some king decades.

962
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: Families are torn the funk apart. One example of this

963
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: would be the case of Carol Felstead and I'm gonna

964
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: quote now from a rite up on her case in

965
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: the conversation In n she went to her doctor complaining

966
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: of headaches. Rather than being given any kind of useful medication,

967
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: she was sent to therapy, which included hypnosis to recover

968
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: memories of ritual sex abuse. She was given psychotherapy and

969
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: like yeah, she was basically went through repressed memory therapy,

970
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: and she started to believe that her parents had been

971
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: the leaders of a satanic cult and that her mother

972
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: had murdered another of their children. And that Carol had

973
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 1: sat on top of the body and then set fire

974
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: to the family home, and like none of this was true.

975
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: What actually had happened is that, like they had, the

976
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: family had another daughter who was ill from birth and

977
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: died in the hospital um from a defective apart before

978
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: Carol was born. But obviously her parents talked about it

979
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: when she was a little baby, and like those I

980
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: like that got into her head and then wait, so

981
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: she had to repress a quote unquote repressed memory of

982
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: someone she'd never met. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's sucking. Uh.

983
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: Carol falsely claimed to have given birth to six babies

984
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: who are meant to be conceived and ritually sacrificed by

985
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: the Satanic cult. Her medical records showed that she'd never

986
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: been pregnant. But she believes all this, all these memories

987
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: that this therapist shoves into her head, she believes. She

988
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: cuts off contact with her family, changes her name, and

989
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,479
Speaker 1: never ever, ever like forgives or come back to her family.

990
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: She dies in two thousand five, in like very strange circumstances.

991
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: It's just a terrible case. And like by all accounts,

992
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: before going to therapy, she was fine, she was doing great,

993
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: she was an intelligent young woman with a whole life

994
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: ahead of her, exactly like this, this therapist just destroys

995
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: her and her family. Yeah, yeah, it's tremendously fucked. Like

996
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: the actual number of casualties of this will never know.

997
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: It's probably thousands, thousands and thousands of easily, it's so bad.

998
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: In sixty minutes, there at a one hour special in

999
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: the Connection between Dungeons and Dragon, Satanic rites and suicide

1000
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: seven to bats Ship. Christian activists published the Catechism of

1001
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: the New Age, an unhinged pamphlet that argued, among other things,

1002
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 1: that D and D was evil because it encouraged critical

1003
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: thinking and children, which inevitably lead to heresy of the

1004
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: devil thinking. And of course heavy metal music gets demonized

1005
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: in this period too, right, and obviously, being good marketers,

1006
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: a lot of heavy metal musicians lean into this and

1007
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: like specifically start like doing devil stuff in their songs,

1008
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: and their teenage countercultural fans do this as well, and

1009
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 1: this sometimes end in tragedy because a lot of these kids,

1010
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: they're just doing it to be like Funk the Man,

1011
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: like the Yeah, exactly, but also it makes them suspects

1012
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: and murders. Which is what happened in the case of

1013
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 1: the West Memphis three. Have you ever heard of this case?

1014
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: Real bad? Yeah. On May five of that year, eight

1015
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: year old Christopher Buyers went missing with of his friends.

1016
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: The boys were found murdered shortly thereafter, hog tied with

1017
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: their own shoelaces. One appeared to have his genitals cut off. Um,

1018
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: I mean, like, obviously, this is an actual horrific crime

1019
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: that was committed, and it was immediately put down to

1020
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: satanic ritual activity. Three teenagers were quickly accused of the crime,

1021
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: based largely on the strength of the fact that they've

1022
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: been arrested for vandalism and liked heavy metal, and the

1023
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: whole case was a complete ship show. So, for one thing,

1024
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: the police department that is investigating this case is not

1025
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: just wildly incompetent, It was actively being investigated for stealing

1026
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 1: drugs from another police department. The other West Memphis Police

1027
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: are not a good department from So the cops never

1028
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: secured the crime scene, UM, did not properly investigate the

1029
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 1: crime scene, and the coroner was incompetent because he believed

1030
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: and reported that the kids general genitals had been cut

1031
00:54:58,360 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: off as part of like a ritual and the real

1032
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: is that like it was a decomposing body that got

1033
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: eaten by animals, right um, and a competent later, competent corners,

1034
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: like this is clearly what was done, what happened to

1035
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: the body after death. So the police in order to

1036
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 1: find the culprits, rather than investigating because again terrible police department,

1037
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 1: they go to a local juvenile psychiatrist and ask like, hey,

1038
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: what kids do you think did this? Right? And the yeah, yeah,

1039
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: who who who do we are is for this? Like

1040
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: we we are so tired from stealing all these drugs

1041
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 1: from the cops next door, Like we really don't have

1042
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: any time to look into this ship. So the psychiatrist

1043
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: blames a kid named Damian Eccles. Now Eccles was eighteen

1044
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: at the time, and he yeah, he's the kind of

1045
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: kid fortunate name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is a really

1046
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: it's it's a problem. And again his town is like

1047
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: a hardcore religious fundamentalist. It's fucking West Memphis in the eighties. Uh.

1048
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: And he wore all black and listened to the metal music.

1049
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: He read Stephen King books. He was interested in the occult,

1050
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 1: so he had like books on the occult, and ship

1051
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: in his house, and he had mental health issues. He'd

1052
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 1: spent time in a mental institution, which is why the

1053
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: psychiatrist knew this kid was out there. And the psychiatrist,

1054
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 1: doing exactly what psychiatrists should never do, blames him for

1055
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: the crime, and soon so did the police. Yeah, they

1056
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: wind up wrapping up a friend of Echo's in it,

1057
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: Jason Baldwin, who was sixteen and was like a good

1058
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: student who had no history of trouble um he but

1059
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: was also a fan of like heavy metal like they,

1060
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: and they drew scenes from like Metallica and Slayer and

1061
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: Iron Iron Maiden songs, and like teachers found them and

1062
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: so like, oh, these kids are like it's the devil. Yeah,

1063
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: and they've both been arrested for vandalism in shoplifting, but

1064
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: like nothing violent, like never an actual crime. Yeah, they're

1065
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: fucking teenagers. Yeah, uh, it's it's real bad. And basically,

1066
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 1: in order to convict these kids, the West Memphis Police

1067
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: found a mentally disabled seventeen year old with an i

1068
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: Q of seventy two who knew both kids, and they

1069
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: bribe his poor family with like lies about reward money

1070
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 1: that if he like well like and like they're talking

1071
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: to him about like, oh, yeah, on, once you get

1072
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: these kids convicted, you'll be able to buy a truck

1073
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, like it's unbelievably fucked up. Yeah yeah,

1074
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: And so they questioned this, The family agree with him,

1075
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: question this mentally ill kid who has no tie of this,

1076
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: and the police question for twelve hours with no parent,

1077
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: no lawyer, no child advocate with him, and he confesses

1078
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: eventually that he echoes and Baldwin killed the kids, even

1079
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: though his like as a clearly coerced confession that's frequently

1080
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: wrong and includes facts that weren't part of like the

1081
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: physical evidence, and he immediately recants. But it doesn't fucking matter, um,

1082
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: because all three of these kids get fucking convicted, and

1083
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, like now, law enforcements pretty certain

1084
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: that it was they were like those kids who were

1085
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: murdered were killed by a single person, probably an adult. Um.

1086
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: But yeah, twelve hours. I remember one reading something that

1087
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: really made me think, Yeah, someone said, are like deep

1088
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: long interrogations like that out right, it's like being war

1089
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: aboarded with dialogues, you know what I mean. And it's

1090
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: like I remember thinking, that's such a good way when

1091
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: the water dialogue. Yeah, it's it's a nightmare. So Damian

1092
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: Echols gets sentenced to death, Jesse ms Kelly gets sentenced

1093
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: to life imprisonment plus two twenty years sentences, and Jason

1094
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: Baldwin gets sentenced to life imprisonment. Um and yeah, the

1095
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: the prosecution basically claims like this is part of a

1096
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: devil ritual that the kids were doing, Like that's part

1097
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: of the case. Um And obviously like there was never

1098
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: any hard physical evidence. And in fact, in two thousand seven,

1099
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: new evidence comes out that finds like genetic material of

1100
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: someone who's not any of the three victims around the

1101
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: bodies of the victims and was not any of the

1102
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: defendants either, um, which you know. Anyway, the case they

1103
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: appeal and ship like the case winds up, it takes

1104
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: until again this happens in night. It's not until two

1105
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: thousand ten that the people in the case are able

1106
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: to negotiate a plea bargain. Like, they don't even get

1107
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: declared innocent, like which you would think. Instead they have

1108
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: to enter an Alfred plea and which they assert their

1109
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: innocence but also acknowledged that the prosecutors had enough evidence

1110
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: to convict them and they get sentenced to time served,

1111
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: both having served like eighteen years um or all having

1112
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's right, that's a lifetime you know. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

1113
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: it's horrible. It's horrible. It's a horrible, horrible story, Jake.

1114
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: The thing is as well, this sounds dumb, but I

1115
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: was just thinking, like, now, if a real Satanic group

1116
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: came out, they could just be like, no one's gonna

1117
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: believe that we did this, you know, like off the

1118
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: off the Satanic Panic, like it's fine. Well, let's saying

1119
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: that it would probably create a news Yeah. I mean,

1120
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: all right, listen up, devil worshippers, you've got you've got

1121
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:48,439
Speaker 1: a window here. No no, Jakenrahan says, start committing crimes now, Jake,

1122
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 1: this has all been a real bummer, just not a

1123
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: great time. Um. And I want to end on something

1124
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: that is at least kind of funny. So one of

1125
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 1: the major spreaders of the Satanic Panic, one of like

1126
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: the people who was responsible nationwide for getting a lot

1127
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: of this nonsense out was friend of the pod Oprah Winfrey, um, who,

1128
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: boy howdy, had a lot of people on to say

1129
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: to tell leward lies about the things they've supposedly done.

1130
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: But during one of these times, she actually had a

1131
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: member of the Church of Satan on her show, and

1132
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 1: a guy in the audience started claiming that he had

1133
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: been a Satanist and had like murdered somebody as part

1134
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: of a Satanic ritual. And you actually this guy got

1135
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: cross examined by the Satanist that Oprah had on stage.

1136
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: And it's fucking great, and I'm gonna I'm gonna see

1137
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: you that video. Now we're gonna end on that note

1138
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: because it's actually kind of funny. It's very, very funny.

1139
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: So what happened in the in the in the ritual

1140
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: where someone was murdered and how were they murdered? Uh,

1141
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: they were stabbed seven times with with nice because it

1142
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:54,479
Speaker 1: was what here eight years ago, So it was about

1143
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: and so rich was a witch? Is seventh and it

1144
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: got out of hand and the High priest brought out

1145
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: these seven daggers and the person in the form of

1146
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:18,479
Speaker 1: a cross with the seven daggers. Um, was this person

1147
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: impaled against his or her will? They won't wished to

1148
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: be sacrificed. You know that this was against his will? Um?

1149
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: But so how did you know you were you weren't

1150
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: going to be pulled in and impaled. That's why I

1151
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: got That's one of the reasons why I got out

1152
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: of the church. And the other reason why I got

1153
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: out of the church was mentally, I had a nervous

1154
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: breakdown after that and I just mentally could not handle it.

1155
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: How do you explain that? My first question would be,

1156
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: were you a member of the Church of Satan, a

1157
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: card carrying member of the Church of Satan? And who

1158
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 1: was the grotto leader? I don't remember his name. You

1159
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: don't remember the name of a person who involved you

1160
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: in murder? Not anymore now. Like I said, I had

1161
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: had a nervous breakdown and I have partial amnesia. Man,

1162
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: that is excellent, And then gave him a car to say, yeah, actually, yeah, yeah.

1163
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: The guy that is cross examine him looks like Dracula,

1164
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: looks like and he's like, no, this is stupid, and

1165
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: he's he's very like methodical and lawyerly about how he

1166
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: cuts that guy's claims apart. It's great. Yeah, yeah, So Jake,

1167
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the devil Um? I don't know.

1168
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 1: I need a shower now, I think, like a long one,

1169
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? After all that's pretty grim. Yeah.

1170
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: But again, like it's like I said before, like you

1171
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: call all of that is like very interesting, and there

1172
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: are some groups around, but this stuff just makes it

1173
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: all look stupid. And God knows how many horrible crimes

1174
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: slipped through the crux, you know what I mean, or

1175
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: maybe will or I don't know. It's just it's just

1176
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: so outrageous that that kind of hysteria took over through

1177
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: the police as well. It's not our rageous, but you

1178
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, it's just another thing of just

1179
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 1: like wow, great job you can find. There are some

1180
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: cases of like ritual murders, like we talked, very very few.

1181
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: It is a thing that has happened in history in

1182
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: this country and in other countries. Like it's not a

1183
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: thing that never occurs. But it's not what they claimed

1184
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: it was, right, there's no gigantic international network of Satanists

1185
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: murdering children for devil powers. Yeah, and it often the

1186
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: occult stuff is actually nothing to do with the devil. Actually,

1187
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: there's very few actual Sate worship yeah, you know what

1188
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, And most Satanists aren't Satan worshippers because

1189
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: it usually means something completely different. To them than like

1190
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: or yeah, I mean there's alread yeah, there's there's a

1191
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: bunch of different like I don't want to Like I've

1192
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: known Satanists who like spoke pretty eloquently about like why

1193
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: they called themselves that, and it wasn't like a worship

1194
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: the devil thing. It was like yeah, but yeah, it's

1195
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: like sometime often or whatever. Yeah, it's fine. I mean,

1196
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: it's it's I think the best thing about this, like

1197
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: like you know, when you were talking about us, thinking, man,

1198
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear this, and that made me think, like, yeah,

1199
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: that's really why you should have to hit do you

1200
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,479
Speaker 1: know what I mean? It's such a demonstration of mass

1201
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: hysteria and not even failure, but like almost like the

1202
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: authorities are trying to make it worse. It was so bad,

1203
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And the idea I think

1204
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: that won't happen again, Like, oh it happened, that can

1205
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: happen any time. It'll happen anytime. Like there's always shades

1206
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: of this every time, Like there's shades of this and

1207
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: sort of the panic that was erupting over Antifa earlier,

1208
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: there's gonna be shades of it in the boogaloo stuff.

1209
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: There's gonna be shades of it, and I mean human

1210
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: on it is not just shades of it went onto

1211
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: descendant of it, but like several shades of ship. Yeah, yeah,

1212
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: it never like it's the kind of thing. There's a

1213
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: bunch of things. If you're a responsible member of society

1214
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: or a responsible society, you always have to be on

1215
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: guard for fascism is one of them, you know, which

1216
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: or another. It's what it is, right, it's a modern

1217
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: day which one actually, yeah, like almost, I mean this

1218
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 1: was a literal which they were looking. Yeah, it's awesome.

1219
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: I'm I never knew how unreal how many people like

1220
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: you're talking about probably somewhere around a thousand people harmed

1221
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: one way or the other by Justina case right, almost

1222
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: four kids, but like also like all these business family members.

1223
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: God knows what problems those kids having their lives now

1224
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: as well, that kind of abused by the authority. Yeah,

1225
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: if you're if you were a McMartin kid who like

1226
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: went through all this like hit us, hit us up.

1227
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm really curious about right. Yeah. Uh so, Jake, do

1228
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: you want to plug things? Yeah? Man, definitely, people should

1229
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: definitely listen to the new one clearance basically trying to

1230
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: trying to bring everyone together, to kind of put the

1231
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: story of put Chewing On together, but at the same

1232
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 1: time going to be like, you know, by the end,

1233
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: I want to be like, this is absolutely we think

1234
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: it isn't his wife, you know what I'm saying. Um.

1235
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, also popular Fronts my platform, independent journals and

1236
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,520
Speaker 1: just search Popular Fronts and you'll find it all. Yeah,

1237
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: check it out. Check out Jake's new podcast, check out

1238
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: Jake's old podcast, Find Jake on the Street. No, don't

1239
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: do that podcast. We're done.