1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Hey guys. Before we dive into the episode, we have 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which is an 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: online community. We're calling our substack Beyond Betrayal, a place 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: where we dive deeper into the stories you hear on 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: this show. Please consider joining our community to gain access 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, as well 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. Just head 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: to Betrayal dot substack that's sub stac k, or just 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: go to substack dot com, search beyond Betrayal and hit subscribe. 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: I'm ashamed to admit I loved you. 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 3: That's what makes us hurt so bad is because I 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 3: care so much about you. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 4: My family is. 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: The most important thing in the world to me, and 15 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 3: it still is, but now there's just one last number 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 3: of it. I cared about you more than anything. 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 5: I looked up to you. 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 6: You are an inspiration to me. 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 3: You ruin my life, ruin my eighty sister's life, and 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 3: you ruined my beautiful mother's life. That's what hurts the 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 3: most is because I genuinely cared so much about you. 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal Season four, Episode 23 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: one one of the good ones. Hi everyone, I'm excited 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: to be back for season four of Betrayal. It's just 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: incredible how much this community has grown, and I wanted 26 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: to take a moment to give you my most heartfelt 27 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: thank you for supporting the series as well as our 28 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: weekly series. No matter how you found Betrayal, I'm really 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: happy you're here now. The next several weeks, we will 30 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: be focusing on one story, a story that we learned 31 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: about only because a woman named Caroline and her daughter 32 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: learned about us. By the way, some names have been 33 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: changed to protect privacy. 34 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 7: My name is Nicole. My mom was driving me up 35 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 7: to school. It was my first semester of college, so 36 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 7: me driving up my freshman year. It's an eight hour drive. 37 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: Nicole's mom, Caroline Brega, was the driver. 38 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: I had said, you know, I'm tired of listening to 39 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: different music. My daughter found the podcast and so she's like, oh, 40 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: leave this. This is rated like super high. Let's listen 41 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: to this, And so I said okay. And so after 42 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: we started listening, when we were both just locked in, 43 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 2: and after just a couple episodes, I was fighting my 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: tears and I said nothing to her and she said 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 2: nothing to me, and then finally, you know, she broke 46 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 2: the ice and she looked at me and she said, 47 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: you know, mommy, this could be our family. I said, 48 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking the 49 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: same thing. 50 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: That thought stuck with Caroline enough to motivate her to 51 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: send us an email, and before we knew it, my producer, 52 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: Carrie and I found ourselves in Colorado Springs, where we 53 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: met Caroline Brega at her home. Caroline is a mother 54 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: of two who works in law enforcement. Her house is beautiful, 55 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: with vaulted ceilings in a cozy suburb of the Springs. 56 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: If one thing stuck out to me, this was a 57 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: forever home. She was warm, welcoming, and not alone. Little 58 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: did we know we were guests of a special night 59 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: Caroline does with the people closest to her. It's called 60 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: supper club, and they do it every Sunday night. They 61 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: drink wine, crack jokes, and unwine before the start of 62 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: another week. These friends never miss a supper club. 63 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: Do you want another one of these? I mean, okay, okay. 64 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: We were complete strangers and the night could not have 65 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: felt more comfortable. 66 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: An who wish us well? Fuck the rest they can 67 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: do the. 68 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: H After dinner, Caroline gave us a tour of the 69 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: dream home she built with her husband of over twenty years. 70 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: She showed us trophies and ribbons from her kids' sports careers. 71 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: There were instruments in elementary school art projects, and there 72 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: were family photos smiling at us in frames all over 73 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: the house. This was a happy home of a happy family. 74 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: But when we looked a little closer, we realized that 75 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: many of the photos weren't of Caroline's family at all. 76 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: They were actually stock photos, the kind you get when 77 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: you buy a frame at the store. It became overwhelmingly 78 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: clear Caroline had deleted parts of her life. Actually just 79 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: one part of her life, the most painful one. Caroline 80 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: had removed all traces of her husband, her now ex husband, 81 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 1: Joel Kern. 82 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 5: Would you please state your full name with the spelling 83 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 5: for the record, Joel Kern, k E R N and JOEO. 84 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: Joel was a decorated member of the Colorado Springs Police Department. 85 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: He had taken an oath to protect and serve the community. 86 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 5: How long have you been employed by CSPD? 87 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 4: Twenty five years? 88 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: But on April eleventh, twenty twenty two, Caroline discovered that 89 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: the only person Joel was serving was himself. 90 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: I'm at work and I see a notification on my phone. 91 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: It's our house cameras, and I look and I see 92 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: it's Joel and he's dragging up the trash cans. 93 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 5: Will you be answering all of our questions concerning this 94 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 5: matter truthfully today? 95 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 4: Yes? 96 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: And so I just sent him a quick text and 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: I said, hey, what are you doing home so early? 98 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 5: And he didn't respond, tell us why do you think 99 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 5: those allegations against you were brought forward? 100 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 2: And then I sent him another text, Joel, is everything okay? 101 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 2: I see like the three little dots? 102 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 5: I'll ask you specifically, have you ever uploaded WhatsApp on 103 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 5: your work cell phone number? 104 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: And he responded back, No, everything's not okay. I fucked 105 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: up the worst I've ever fucked up in my life. 106 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: You're going to want to divorce me. 107 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: Season four is about truth. It's the foundation upon which 108 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: trust is built. So what happens when someone manipulates the truth? 109 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: What happens when a person or an institution believes that 110 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: they are above the truth. For Caroline, her husband's lies 111 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: completely undermined her sense of reality. It's been a hard 112 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: few years for Caroline and her family. Before we sat 113 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: down with her, she looked to her daughter for strength. 114 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: She was very sweet and said, you are brilliant, resilient 115 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: and beautiful, and you deserve to tell the truth of 116 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: the story. You deserve to let people know what we 117 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,119 Speaker 2: went through. And that's all the permission I needed. 118 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: Nicole always felt a deep kinship with her father, Joel Kern. 119 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 7: I really idolized my dad. I thought we had similar personalities. 120 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 7: We had the same humor, same kind of confrontational style. 121 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: And for Joel, it wasn't just a job, it was 122 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: part of his identity. During Nicole's childhood, he rose up 123 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: the ranks in the Colorado Springs Police Department, and for 124 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: most of her life he worked unusual hours. 125 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 7: My dad did work nights for the majority of my life, 126 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 7: and so most of the time I would only see him, 127 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 7: like during dinnertime. I was kind of proud of that 128 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 7: in a way, because he was serving our community, and 129 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 7: I was really happy to see him and all of 130 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 7: his cop friends, and like spending most birthdays at the 131 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 7: substation and all. 132 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: That substation was a new word for me. It's another 133 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: word for precinct. Caroline made sure not to skip celebrations 134 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: just because Joel worked at night. She brought the kids 135 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: over and they celebrated birthdays and holidays at the substation, 136 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: so Joel wouldn't miss out and the kids would have 137 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: their dad at milestone events. 138 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 7: I did maybe idolize them more than my mom, just 139 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 7: because my mom was constant throughout my life. I wanted 140 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 7: his connection just because he wasn't really there for a 141 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 7: lot of the daily events with my brother and I. 142 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: Joel's career was always the family's priority. When he had 143 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: to miss the kids sports or recitals, it was for 144 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: good reason. Their dad was on the side of justice integrity, 145 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: and this didn't happen by accident. Caroline and Joel designed 146 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: their life around his career. In fact, the day she 147 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: first laid eyes on Joel, he was in uniform. It 148 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: was nineteen ninety eight and Caroline was fresh out of 149 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: college starting her first full time job as a domestic 150 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: violence advocate. 151 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: I was told from my employers that one of the 152 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 2: things that would be required of me as a component 153 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: of my training for the position would be to complete 154 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: a ROD along with the Colorado Springs Police Department. So 155 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: I showed up at the substation and I'm all of 156 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,359 Speaker 2: twenty two years old, freshly graduated, just celebrated my birthday, 157 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: and I meet this police officer and his name was Troy. 158 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: The first part of what we were going to do 159 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: for the evening is that we would sit in the 160 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 2: lineup room and I would be able to listen to 161 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 2: a police lineup. 162 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: When Caroline says lineup, she he was talking about the 163 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: briefing officers received at the start of their shift. It's 164 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: when this sergeant gives out updates and assignments. 165 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: As wind up's getting ready to begin, this person walks in. 166 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: He's very tall, I'm very handsome, and just looks kind 167 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 2: of discombobulated. He's carrying a radar gun and a clipboard 168 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: while still trying to balance this coffee mug. And everyone's 169 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: kind of giggling, and the police sergeant said, well, I 170 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: guess we can start lineup. When Joel finds his seat, 171 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 2: everyone and I'm staring at him, and I admit I 172 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: was just awestrug. He was handsome and young, and when 173 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: he sat down, I could see him turning back around 174 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: and staring at me, and you know, I get flushed 175 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: and I look away, but the times when I would 176 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: look over and we caught eyes, there's no other way 177 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: to put it. It was electrifying. 178 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: There was something happening between them. Caroline didn't know it then, 179 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: but that night altered the trajectory of her life. And 180 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: since we're going to be talking a lot about the 181 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: Colorado Springs Police Department, I'll referred to it as the 182 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: CSPD from now on. 183 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: And then as lineup finished, Troy came back to me 184 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: and he said, Okay, are you ready to get going? 185 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: And before we were leaving the lineup room, Joel came 186 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: kind of hurriedly over to us and he said, Troy, 187 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 2: don't forget I'm your partner tonight. And Troy just kind 188 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 2: of let out this sigh, and then he looked at 189 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 2: me and he said, and this is Joel clearly trying 190 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 2: to insert himself, to get himself introduced to you, Joel, 191 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: this is Caroline. 192 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: The ride along was routine, but it was a long night. 193 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: When they returned to the substation, Caroline was ready to 194 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: get home. 195 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: And as I'm approaching my car, Joel kind of almost 196 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: running out comes out to me. It was like, Hey, 197 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 2: I just wanted to say, I know that you're new 198 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 2: in town, so I wanted to give you my business 199 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: card and let you know that if you ever needed 200 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: to be showed around town, or if you wanted a 201 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: tour of the city, let me know. And I said, 202 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: I don't need to be shown around this town. I 203 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: grew up here, so I have no need for a 204 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: tour guide. 205 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: Caroline was playing cool, but he gave her his number anyway. 206 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 2: And I just took the business card and got in 207 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: my car. I drove home that night, and my mom 208 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: was waiting up for me. She was like, Oh, I'm 209 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 2: just so relieved your home safely. I'd been waiting up. 210 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: I couldn't sleep. How was the evening? And the first 211 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 2: words out of my mouth before anything were I met 212 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 2: the man I'm going to marry. And my mom sat 213 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: there in silence, and then she stared at me, and 214 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: her next response was, Jesus Christ, I better not be 215 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: a cop, and I just started laughing. I went to 216 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: bed and I fell asleep for a couple hours, and 217 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: when I woke up, I rolled over and I had 218 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: Joel's business card on my nightstands and I picked up 219 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: the phone. This is nineteen ninety eight. I used my parents' landline, 220 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: called his work and I left a voice smell for him. 221 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: I said, Hey, it's Caroline. I don't need a tour guide, 222 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 2: but if you ever want to get together sometime, let 223 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: me know. And within twenty or thirty minutes my parents 224 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: house lion ring, and after I said hello, the first 225 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: words out of his mouth were, what took you so 226 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 2: long to call me? 227 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: Joel wanted to see her that night, but she had plans. 228 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: It was Caroline's turn to cook Sunday dinner for her family. 229 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: To her surprise, he was down to show up at 230 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: her parents and bravely dine with her mom, dad, and 231 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: two older sisters. 232 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: He was a trooper with it. I mean, he was 233 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: very coldly greeted by my parents. My sisters were incredibly 234 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: amused by the fact that I had just met this 235 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: person on a ride along and I was inviting him 236 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: over for Sunday dinner, and so you know, they were 237 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: giddy and giggly about it. 238 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: Joel and Caroline were skipping a lot of steps. This 239 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: would typically be day ten, not date one, but it 240 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: felt right having Joel there beside her, and from that 241 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: moment on. 242 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:50,479 Speaker 2: We became inseparable, and I should clarify, I mean inseparable 243 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: as we could be. With regards to his schedule. He 244 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: worked four days on and had three days off, and 245 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: the four days that he w worked on were ten 246 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 2: hour shifts at night. 247 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: But when they were together, it was like the beginning 248 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: all over again. Caroline and Joel made the most of 249 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: the gorgeous landscape in Colorado. 250 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: We enjoyed driving up to see the leaves when they changed, 251 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: and going on different hikes, and driving through different passes 252 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: and going to different mountain towns. We were both young, 253 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: and you know you're in love and attracted to each other. 254 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: They had met early in the summer of nineteen ninety eight, 255 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: and in the fall, Caroline had planned to go to 256 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: graduate school a few hours away in Boulder, but Joel 257 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: wasn't about to let her get away. 258 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: When it came time for me to go to graduate school, 259 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: Joel had said to me, my career is established, and 260 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: you have so many connections here in your hometown. Why 261 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: don't you just stay. And we had a little bit 262 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: of a negotiation where I said, well, I'm not going 263 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: to just Smith's graduate school. This is something that I 264 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: like to stay and pursue all enroll at the local university. 265 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: Here here's Caroline's best friend, Debra. 266 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 8: We started hanging out more because we played on a 267 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 8: recreational volleyball league together and Joel was a part of that. 268 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: Debra is as Carolyne says her ride or Die. They 269 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: met back in their twenties at work, and they even 270 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: have a nickname for each other. 271 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 8: It's Sally. We're like, if we ever go to jail, 272 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 8: we'd be cell mates, our little partners in crime, and 273 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 8: so we call each other Sally. 274 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: Deborah knew Joel from the beginning of their relationship. 275 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 8: You know, they were always great together. I looked up 276 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 8: to them as a couple. She was very attendant to him. 277 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 8: He seemed attentative to her. He was great. There was 278 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 8: like two different jewels. There was work mode Joel, who 279 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 8: was very serious took his job seriously, and then there 280 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 8: was Joel outside of work that loved to hang out, 281 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 8: loved to, you know, have a drink here and there, 282 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 8: and we just always had a good time. 283 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: Caroline loved him, her friends and family had grown to 284 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: love him. They were dating for a little over two years. 285 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 2: When we were getting ready to go out somewhere. I 286 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: can't even remember where what we're going to do. And 287 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 2: I went upstairs to you know, get my shoes on 288 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: or get a coat or whatever. And I turned around 289 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 2: and there he was with a ring. And that's how 290 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: we got engaged. 291 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: The engagement was simple, but planning the wedding wouldn't be. 292 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: Caroline was Catholic but Joel wasn't. That meant they couldn't 293 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: get married in her church. But then Joel did something 294 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: extraordinary that surprised Caroline. 295 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: Joel said, and I'll convert for you. I just thought, 296 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: oh my god, thank you. It just drew us closer 297 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: together and just made me feel that much more loved 298 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: and special that he was willing to do that. 299 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: Once Joel was confirmed as part of the Catholic Church, 300 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: he and Caroline prepared for the sacrament of marriage. 301 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 2: We needed to do premarital counseling with our priest. The 302 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 2: counseling was actually something that was extremely relevant and beneficial. 303 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 2: I mean, there was a litany of discussions that were had, 304 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: and one of the discussions surrounded in fidelity, and so 305 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 2: I told him, I just want you to know that 306 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: I will work through and do anything for you. But 307 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: I have two rules. Don't ever lay a hand on me, 308 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 2: and don't ever cheat on me anything else. I commit 309 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: and promise to you I will work through. And he 310 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: said I agree, and we had a mass of one 311 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty people on a Friday evening. 312 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: Three years after they met, on July twenty seventh, two 313 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: thousand and one, Caroline and Joel got married. 314 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: He invited a childhood friend to do a reading, and 315 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: she was excited to be part of the ceremony. 316 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 9: Love is patient and kind. Love does not envy or boast. 317 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 9: It is not arrogant or rude. 318 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: And it was just so beautiful, just so beautiful. 319 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 9: Love bears all things, believes, all things hopes, all things endures, 320 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 9: all things. Love never ends. 321 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 2: So around June of two thousand and two, I was 322 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: at Target one day. I was in the book area 323 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: and wanted to get a nice journal, and I passed 324 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 2: by this book What to Expect when You're Expecting, and 325 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: it was just kind of this moment of when was 326 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 2: the last time I got my period? And I started 327 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: looking at the book and I was giggling to myself 328 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 2: and I thought I should probably take a test. And 329 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: I was pregnant. She took the test. 330 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: While Joel was sleeping, but she wanted to share the 331 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: news with him right away. 332 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 2: He sat straight up in bed, stared at me for 333 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: a second, and then he said, this is what you want, 334 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: right And I said I do what about you? And 335 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: he said, yes, of course, of course I want to 336 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: be a dad. 337 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: Once the shock were off, they were both really looking 338 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: forward to having a baby. 339 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 9: You know. 340 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 2: We told our parents right away and everyone was just 341 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: so excited for us. 342 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: Caroline threw herself into preparing for motherhood. Joel began to 343 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: focus on providing for his growing family. 344 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: It was important for him at this point to advance 345 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 2: his career because he wanted to be able to provide 346 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 2: the best he could for me and our child and 347 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 2: if we had other children. 348 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: During her pregnancy, the couple made an agreement that Joel's 349 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: career as a cop would be the centerpiece of their life. 350 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: It was a sacrifice for the betterment of their family 351 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: and for the entire community. 352 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 2: There were occasions where his work impeded some factors with 353 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: me being pregnant. He missed doctor's appointments and would call 354 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 2: and say, I can't make it because I'm at work. 355 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: Still, Caroline experienced some lonely days, but the couple was 356 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: working for the future. 357 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: Our son was born and a thankfully healthy, beautiful baby boy. 358 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: Joel stayed home just a couple days, and I went 359 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 2: right back to work and was very that he wanted 360 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: to focus on his career and making sure that he 361 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 2: showed that he was someone who was worthy of being promoted, 362 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: especially now that we had a child. 363 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: As for Caroline's career, it was more flexible. She isn't 364 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: an officer herself. She asked us not to disclose her 365 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: exact job title. We'll just say she works in the 366 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: justice system and collaborates with law enforcement. So Caroline had 367 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: the utmost respect for the work her husband did. 368 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 2: I knew what I was getting into. I knew when 369 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 2: I married a cop that I was going to be 370 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 2: alone a night. That we agreed he would have the 371 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 2: ability to make more money and that I would be 372 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 2: the person who would support it because I had a 373 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: more flexible schedule than him. 374 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: Two years after their son was born, Caroline and Joel 375 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: welcomed a baby girl. 376 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: Our daughter was born in two thousand and five. 377 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: And then they saw their sacrifices start to pay off. 378 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 2: Eleven days after our daughter was born, Joel was promoted 379 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: to the rank of sergeant. Being a midnight sergeant was 380 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 2: his focus for many, many years. We would have dinner 381 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 2: together as a family, and then he would leave for 382 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: work by eight pm, and then I was home with 383 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: the kids at night. 384 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: Despite the difficult hours, Joel embraced fatherhood. As the kids grew, 385 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: Joel and Caroline brought them along for all their outdoor adventures. 386 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: They even got an ur V. 387 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 2: We would go on biking trips together, and hiking trips 388 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: together and camping trips together. You could see he just 389 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: enjoyed being around the kids and watching them live these 390 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 2: moments and experiences through their lens. 391 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: From those early days, Joel encouraged their son to get 392 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: involved in his community. Here's their son. 393 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 6: He was a leader all throughout my boy scout career 394 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 6: until I became an Eagle Scout. 395 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: They even traveled to Florida for a scouting trip. 396 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 6: Going Key to Key and snarkling on shipwrecks and seeing 397 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 6: all the sharks and the sea wildlife was probably the 398 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 6: most memorable. 399 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: And Joel found ways to bond with their daughter, Nicole. 400 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 7: I'm really big into lacrosse. I've been playing lacrosse with 401 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 7: my whole life. He was the one that always took 402 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 7: me to my lacrosse games, my lacrosse practices. 403 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: Both kids enjoyed the benefits of their dad being a 404 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: cop because they had access to exciting experiences, getting. 405 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 6: To see the jail cells or the armory or the 406 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 6: police motorcycles. 407 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: Then there was Joel's police cart. 408 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 6: To play with the sirens, and then getting older, being 409 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 6: able to go on police ride alongs and all that. 410 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: The car was a symbol of their dad's power and authority, 411 00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: of his values his service. Despite Joel working nights, their 412 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: family thrived. Both kids were passionate about sports and became 413 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: competitive athletes, and they were focused, hard working students. 414 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: Things just really felt like they were on this great trajectory. 415 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 6: The saying was that the current family doesn't accept mediocrity, 416 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 6: which is half joking, half not. 417 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: After eight years working as a sergeant, Joel was tapped 418 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: for an important assignment. 419 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 2: He actually was given an opportunity to become a sergeant 420 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 2: for internal affairs. 421 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: Internal affairs is a department that investigates complaints and allegations 422 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: of misconduct against its own officers. The new job meant 423 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: Joel would work regular business hours and be home at night. 424 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 2: I craved being able to have him at home. It 425 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: wasn't so much a matter of that I needed or 426 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 2: wanted help. It was a matter of wanting to have 427 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: the normal to sit together and hold hands in the 428 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: stands at the kids' games, to be able to not 429 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 2: have to rush, to be able to actually have a 430 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: meal at the kitchen table, falling asleep with someone at night, 431 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: being able to get ready together in the morning, some 432 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: plistic activities like cutting up the vegetables for dinner together 433 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: and cleaning up together and talking together. It was just 434 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: this time to finally exhale and have some time together 435 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: as a family. It was just so welcomed. 436 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: She craved that companionship. When Joel moved to internal Affairs, 437 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: he began sharing more about his work with Caroline. Every 438 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: industry has its good and bad operators, but some of 439 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: what Joel revealed was disturbing. 440 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: I started to hear about people who engaged in some 441 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: pretty concerning, immoral and unsavory acts while under the guise 442 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: of a police officer. 443 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: It was eye opening to see how discipline worked at CSPD, 444 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: what conduct could get you fired, and how honesty could 445 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: save your job, even for very serious offenses. Caroline was 446 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: proud that Joel was well liked and respected. Here is 447 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: a retired CSPD officer. He asked that we call him Dan. 448 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 10: He was always pretty cheerful. I actually always appreciated after 449 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 10: he got promoted how he treated his officers and stuff. Yeah, 450 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 10: he treated him really well, and I think he set 451 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 10: good expectations for him and seemed to genuinely care about 452 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 10: the cops that were working for him. 453 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: His family beamed whenever he was honored for his work, 454 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: especially his daughter. 455 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 7: I was very proud that my dad was a police officer. 456 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: She remained proud even as the public's relationship with law 457 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: enforcement faced a watershed moment. 458 00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 7: There were riots in my town in twenty twenty, and 459 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 7: my dad was constantly out working in you know, during 460 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 7: that time. I was really proud of him, just because 461 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 7: I saw the sacrifices that he was making. 462 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: These were the George Floyd protests that were shaking the 463 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: nation to its core. The mountain town of Colorado Springs 464 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: was no exception. Dan was working for the department then 465 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: and recalls the experience. 466 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 10: For us it was pretty substantial. I mean, we had 467 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 10: good week or so of several thousand people out in 468 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 10: the streets. It got actually fairly hairy at times as 469 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 10: far as just the potential for violence to really get 470 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 10: set off. 471 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: Caroline and Joel wanted their community to know that while 472 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: they supported the police, they did not accept the kind 473 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: of policing that led to George Floyd's death. 474 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 2: Joel was a police officer who absolutely disagreed with what 475 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: occurred to George Floyd and made sure anywhere we went 476 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: socially or publicly known that he did not believe how 477 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 2: that circumstance and situation was handled. 478 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: Even though she supported the protests, she was scared for 479 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: her husband's safety. He had to work the front lines. 480 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: People were throwing frozen water bottles or rocks, and he 481 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 2: would say, oh, look look at this bruise that popped up. 482 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: This was from a frozen water bottle. We had friends 483 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,719 Speaker 2: who they knew that he was working long hours and 484 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: would hear from me that he hadn't been home for 485 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: sixteen seventeen hours, and they were bringing food over and 486 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: checking in on him, letting him know that they were 487 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: praying for him, that they knew he was one of 488 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: the good ones. 489 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: That's what they all thought that he was one of 490 00:29:51,840 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: the good ones. Caroline knew Joel was one of the 491 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: good ones. She had seen it with her own eyes. 492 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: Joel was her rock during one of the hardest moments 493 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: of her life. 494 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: I described for you just how close I was with 495 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 2: my parents. Joel was with me and my family when 496 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 2: my dad passed away in twenty eleven, and then in 497 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. My mom 498 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: was scheduled to go in for just a routine appointment 499 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 2: in December of twenty sixteen, and I had a court 500 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 2: obligation with my job and I couldn't attend the appointment 501 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: and said, you know, should I cancel it? Should I 502 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 2: get coverage? My mom said no, no, no, it's just routine. 503 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: And maybe all asked Joel to go with me and 504 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 2: then I can take him out for a lunch date. 505 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 2: And I was sitting at my desk at work, anticipating 506 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: that I would get an update, and Joel called me 507 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: and he said, hey, are you alone? And I said yeah, 508 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 2: and he said I got to talk to you about 509 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: your mom's appointment, And so I said, okay, is everything okay? 510 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: He said no, and he said all of her labs 511 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: came back really concerning, and at this point thencologist says, 512 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: there's just really nothing that they can do for her, 513 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: and your mom doesn't want to try anything else. And 514 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: I just walked out of work and I drove to 515 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 2: my mom's house and she was laying in bed. He 516 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: was sitting next to her, holding her hand. And she 517 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: died February first, twenty seventeen, and he was there for 518 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: those last moments. I remember that night, lying next to him, 519 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 2: and I said, you and the kids are all I 520 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 2: have now, and he said, we're going to be together 521 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 2: till the day we die, will be grandparents. We have 522 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: these two great kids. 523 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: The same mother who once said don't tell me you're 524 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: marrying a cop had come to trust him to love him. 525 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,959 Speaker 11: One of the pieces of my mom passing away was 526 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 11: that she left him in charge of all of her affairs, 527 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 11: so he handled my mom's estate for her. 528 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: Joel stepped in again when Caroline was faced with an 529 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: uncomfortable decision. 530 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 2: I inherited different things, and one of them was a 531 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: specific rental property that I just did not want. 532 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: Caroline asked for discretion here, but I will say this. 533 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: The property had a lot of dark history in her family. 534 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: I said, I don't want this. I hate this place. 535 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: It has bad memories. It's always been a problem in 536 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 2: my family. I don't want this rental property. And he said, 537 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 2: it's passive income. I'll handle everything about it. You don't 538 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 2: need to worry about it. 539 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: He stuck to his word and took charge of the 540 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: rental property. And take note the rental property is important 541 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,479 Speaker 1: because it's going to come back later in Caroline's story. Actually, 542 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: almost every anecdote you've heard up until this point will too. 543 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 2: Soon. 544 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: After the loss of Caroline's mother, another exciting career opportunity 545 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: came Joel's way. The CSPD public Information officer was retiring, 546 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: and Joel was offered the position on a temporary basis. 547 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: This role meant he'd be the face of the department, 548 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: handling media relations and serving as the spoke person. Here 549 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: he is giving an interview to a journalist. 550 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 10: Is it like during this time of a year that 551 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 10: homicide kind of picked up. 552 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 4: I don't think there's any science per se on when 553 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 4: a homicide would occur, because, for the most part, it's 554 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 4: an intimate, violent crime. We're often committed by somebody that. 555 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 2: You know, Joel would be the person at different crime 556 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 2: scenes or at different organization or events, or he would 557 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 2: give the speech on behalf of the police department. 558 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: Joel loved being the CSPD spokesperson, and he loved the recognition. 559 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: He would light up if we were in the grocery store, 560 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 2: or if he was outside mowing the lawn and one 561 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 2: of the neighbors would point out, or someone would randomly 562 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: point out, Oh my gosh, I saw you on TV. 563 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: Their home office was almost a shrine to Joel's accomplishments, 564 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: with newspaper clippings and plaques. He even jokingly referred to 565 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 1: it as the love Me Room. They were all proud 566 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: of him. Plus, the job meant he was on the 567 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: day shift, and that meant more time together. Once the 568 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: temporary role as public information officer ended, Joel tried to 569 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: get as much experience across multiple departments as he could. 570 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 1: It was the best path to leadership. Eventually, his hard 571 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: work was recognized and before long he was up for 572 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: the rank of lieutenant. This was a promotion, but he 573 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: came with a drawback. He would be back on the 574 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: grueling night shift at least for the time being. 575 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: And just as I did with him when he was 576 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 2: trying to become a sergeant. I mock interview questions, read 577 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 2: over his promotional book, took a look at all that stuff, 578 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 2: and in twenty seventeen he was promoted to lieutenant. 579 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: Then a year later, in twenty eighteen, Joel was offered 580 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: the role of public Information officer, but this time it 581 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: would be permanent. 582 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 2: Came home and we were both excited because he was 583 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 2: selected for it. About two weeks later, he came home 584 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 2: early in the morning and was just acting very strange, 585 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 2: and I asked, what's going on. He said, I had 586 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: a falling out with the chief. And I said, you 587 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 2: had a falling out with the chief of police And 588 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 2: he said, I had a falling out with him, and 589 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 2: he's taken away my opportunity to be the public information officer. 590 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 2: And I'm like, what are you talking about? What happened? 591 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: Eventually, Joel revealed something that shook Caroline. He'd been grappling 592 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: with reoccurring memories of a childhood trauma. It was something 593 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: she'd known about, she didn't realize it was interfering with 594 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: his work. Joel explained how the stress had built up, 595 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: leading to an explosive confrontation with the chief. With Caroline's 596 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: unwavering support, he agreed to start therapy. Caroline found Joel, 597 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: a counselor experienced with first responders and PTSD the PIO job. 598 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: It was a loss, but Joel's mental health was the priority, 599 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: and later the same year, Joel was given another daytime 600 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: assignment overseeing special events for the department. The job had 601 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: its perks. He organized the motorcade with the Secret Service 602 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: whenever the president or vice president came to town. 603 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 2: And for Caroline it meant more time together. 604 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: As a family and more quality time with her husband, 605 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: and for a while, Joel seemed well. Than one night 606 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: they attended one of their son's sporting events together, Joel 607 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: was distracted and despondent. 608 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 2: He became extremely withdrawn and very agitated. And so this 609 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 2: is about twenty nineteen. 610 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: Caroline was concerned he was obviously in distress. Their son 611 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: just turned sixteen and started driving. 612 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 2: I said something to him, and his commentary was, it's 613 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 2: because I can't get out of my head that he's 614 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 2: driving and he could be in an accident. Like he 615 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 2: said to me, you know, I think of all the 616 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 2: kids who I've seen in accidents who've been killed, and 617 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 2: I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking 618 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 2: about it, and so he's telling me this, and I 619 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 2: was mortified. 620 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: Police officers are the first responders to a lot of 621 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: disturbing situations, so it wasn't a surprise that Joel experienced 622 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: this type of PTSD. These moments were tough, but they 623 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: were infrequent. Caroline looked for the joy in their lives 624 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: and made it a point to celebrate all the good 625 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: they had. 626 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 2: Our son graduated from high school, our daughter had her 627 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 2: sixteenth birthday, and we celebrated twenty years of marriage. 628 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 1: They wanted to celebrate big with a family beach vacation. 629 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: Here's Caroline and Joel's son. 630 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 6: I took my best friend from home, and then my family, 631 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 6: family friends. We all went down to Mexico. 632 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 1: Joel and Caroline were devising a plan of their own 633 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: for their anniversary. 634 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 2: Joel and I had talked about renewing our vows, and 635 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 2: he suggested we keep it a surprise. He said, let's 636 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 2: not tell anyone, let's, you know, get everyone together somehow. 637 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 2: On the beach. It was a surprise one. I saw 638 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 2: my mom in that long dress. 639 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 7: I remember like tearing up because when I was growing up, 640 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 7: I never ever saw my dad cry. And so he 641 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 7: started like tearing up, and you know, his voice cracking 642 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 7: a little bit when he was just talking about how 643 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 7: the first time he proposed to my mom it wasn't 644 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:03,320 Speaker 7: the best proposal. So this was a redoal he said, 645 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 7: and you like got on one knee and gave my 646 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 7: mom a new engagement ring. And so, you know, I 647 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 7: started tearing up because I never saw my dad kind 648 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 7: of express his emotions like that. 649 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: Caroline shared some photos with me. She looks stunning in 650 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,760 Speaker 1: a long white dress with a low back. In one shot, 651 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: her son walks beside her on the beach and her 652 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: daughter holds flowers. The kids look so proud of their parents. 653 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 7: She did look like a bride, so it was cool 654 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 7: to see her all dauled up. 655 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: Their son can still picture it. 656 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 6: It was a proud moment for me because I walked 657 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 6: my mom down the quote unquote aisle more like a 658 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 6: sidewalk to the beach. 659 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 1: The ceremony left their family and friends feeling an apt 660 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 1: glow long past the trip, but less than a year later, 661 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,320 Speaker 1: in March of twenty two, Joel's mental health took another 662 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,280 Speaker 1: turn for the worse. Caroline was terrified. She had never 663 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: seen him so upset or vulnerable. 664 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 2: And I said, you know what's going on? And he 665 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 2: says to me, Caroline, I think I'm having I think 666 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,839 Speaker 2: I'm having a nervous breakdown, like I can't stop thinking 667 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 2: about so many things. 668 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: He was having horrifying, intrusive thoughts that wouldn't stop. 669 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 2: He's crying, and I'm crying. He was sitting on the 670 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 2: couch and I'm sitting there and I'm kneeling in front 671 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 2: of him, and I just said, quit, just quit. You 672 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 2: know you've done this for over twenty five years. Just quit. 673 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 2: We'll figure it out. I can't stand seeing you like this. 674 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 2: I don't want you to feel like this. 675 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: The job must have been weighing on him for decades, 676 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: and it was all coming out out. The couple had 677 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: heart to hearts. Joel opened up about his parents' details 678 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 1: he'd never shared before. They started talking about the future, 679 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: about what life could look like if he changed careers. 680 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: Caroline didn't care what he did. She just wanted him healthy, happy. Then, 681 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: on Sunday, April tenth, Joel did something no one saw coming. 682 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: It rocked his family in the best way. 683 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 2: Our daughter wanted to go to church. He never went, 684 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 2: and as our daughter and I are getting ready, he 685 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 2: emerges and says he's going with us. And our daughter said, Daddy, 686 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 2: are you serious. You're really going to go to church 687 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 2: with us? And he said yes, And so we go 688 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 2: to bed that night next day. I love you. I 689 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 2: love you. I'm proud of you for making all of 690 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,439 Speaker 2: these committed changes for yourself. I know, I feel really 691 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 2: good about it. Let's keep talking about it. I love it. 692 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 2: Sounds good. Kiss him goodbye. 693 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: She thinks about that moment often because it was the 694 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: last time she understood her world. 695 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,240 Speaker 2: And as I met work, It's about one point thirty 696 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: in the afternoon, and I'm in an online meeting and 697 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 2: I see a notification on my phone and so it's 698 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 2: our house cameras. There's someone detected at the front door 699 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 2: and in my driveway and I look and I see 700 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 2: it's jol and he's dragging up the trash cans. It 701 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,839 Speaker 2: was trash day. And I thought, that's weird. Wonder why 702 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 2: he's home, And so I just sent him a quick 703 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 2: text and I said, hey, I'm in an online meeting. 704 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 2: What are you doing home so early? And he didn't respond, 705 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 2: and I'm watching him. I'm watching him pull up the 706 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 2: trash can. I'm watching him pull up the recycle. And 707 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 2: then I think to myself, where's his take home car? 708 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,879 Speaker 2: You know, I don't see his take home cop card? 709 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 2: And then I sent him another text, Joel, is everything okay? 710 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 2: How come you're home so early? And so I see 711 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,759 Speaker 2: like the three little dots the ellipses just kind of 712 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 2: bouncing on my phone screen and he responded back, No, 713 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 2: everything's not okay. I fucked up the worst I've ever 714 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 2: flecked up in my life. I've ruined our lives. You're 715 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:29,839 Speaker 2: going to want to divorce me. I stared at that 716 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 2: text for several seconds, and then I said, what is 717 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,320 Speaker 2: going on? What is going on? And he wouldn't respond 718 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,439 Speaker 2: back to me, and I said, I'm going to leave work. 719 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,840 Speaker 2: Please tell me what is going on. You have me terrified, 720 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 2: And then he texted back, I was caught receiving oral 721 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 2: sex from two women in my cop car. I lied 722 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 2: about it during an internal affairs investigation. I am now 723 00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 2: penning termination. I just sat there at my desk and 724 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 2: I gently closed my laptop. I didn't excuse myself from 725 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 2: my online meeting, and I didn't tell anyone I was 726 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 2: leaving work. I kept my composure until I could walk outside, 727 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,800 Speaker 2: and I was on a street corner headed to my car, 728 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 2: which was parked in a garage before I just started 729 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 2: breaking down and I called him, and I remember just 730 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 2: tears streaming down my face and I said, what did 731 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 2: you do? What did you do? And he just kept 732 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 2: chanting up. Carolyn, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. 733 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: This season on Betrayal, the good guide Joel appeared to 734 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: be was all a facade. 735 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 2: Based on that information, tell me what happened that you 736 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 2: believe was the basis for the allegations. 737 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,720 Speaker 4: I would say that you know it wouldn't be something 738 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 4: that I'd want to my wife or kids reading obviously. 739 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,800 Speaker 2: Did part of you know deep down that this was wrong? 740 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 8: Yes, the momentary times you had these encounters, did it 741 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 8: make you feel good? 742 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Betrayal Season four. If you 743 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 1: would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email 744 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 1: us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal 745 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: Pod at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to 746 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H. 747 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,879 Speaker 1: Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way 748 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: to support the series is by subscribing to our show 749 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star 750 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal 751 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,760 Speaker 1: is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass 752 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,880 Speaker 1: Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is 753 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,920 Speaker 1: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is 754 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced 755 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate 756 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,879 Speaker 1: producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcurie. Our iHeart team 757 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard, 758 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins, 759 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,280 Speaker 1: Voice acting by Caitlin Golden and special thanks to Caroline 760 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,880 Speaker 1: and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Bains. 761 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: Music library provided by my Music and For more podcasts 762 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 763 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.