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Speaker 1: Welcome to two percent. I'm your host, Michael Easter. Now,

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Speaker 1: most human beings will not climb Mount Everest. Most people

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Speaker 1: won't even think about attempting that. But our guest today

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Speaker 1: he has climb Mount Everest four different times. He also

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Speaker 1: managed to climb every single fourteen or in Colorado by

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Speaker 1: his eighteenth birthday. He also made a bold attempt at

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Speaker 1: K two, which is the most dangerous, risky mountain and

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Speaker 1: the hardest mountain on Earth. Our guest today is doctor

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Speaker 1: John Kadrowski. He was rolling through Las Vegas, so I

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Speaker 1: dragged him in the studio. I wanted to ask him

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Speaker 1: about what he's learned about life on these crazy climbs,

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Speaker 1: how you can train for the outdoors, and also how

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Speaker 1: he thinks about risk in everyday life and how sometimes

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Speaker 1: the most risky things we do are also the most rewarding.

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Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and then we'll bring

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Speaker 1: in John. All Right, John, welcome to the show. How

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Speaker 1: you doing goo ahod man, It's good to have you here.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for yeah, thanks for the invite. Okay, here's where

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Speaker 1: I want to start. George Mallory temps Everest in nineteen twenties.

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Speaker 1: He gets asked why he wanted to climb Everest, and

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Speaker 1: he said, because it's there. Now, I think that's total bullshit.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you why. I want to hear

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Speaker 1: your reaction to it.

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Speaker 2: In terms of it being total, total bullshit. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think he had a lot of other reasons, right,

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Speaker 2: he wanted to be the first. Yeah, I'd say that

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Speaker 2: was probably his main motivation. Well, you just at a

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Speaker 2: first ascent? Yeah, what is it about being the first?

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Speaker 2: It just it feels amazing, because, yeah, you're literally stepping

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Speaker 2: somewhere that nobody's ever gone. And for me, that climb

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Speaker 2: this past month was, honestly, it felt better than Everest.

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Speaker 2: And I've done Everest on seven expeditions over the years,

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Speaker 2: but it was just a different feel and also it

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Speaker 2: pushed me differently. What mountain was it? It was called

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Speaker 2: kick cap Ree two, So it was a mountain on

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Speaker 2: the bed Nepal border, about about one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: miles northwest of Katmandu and just in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 2: Very hard to get to go over a huge eighteen

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Speaker 2: thousand foot pass, hike up a valley where you're seeing

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Speaker 2: wild yaks, wild mustangs. There's snow upward tracks that kind

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Speaker 2: of thing, and to an area that was really hard

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Speaker 2: to get to and then you could see why. But

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Speaker 2: all the while was during the Mount Everest season over there,

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Speaker 2: and so I thought to myself, Man, this is pretty

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Speaker 2: cool because I'm not up, you know, getting stuck behind

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Speaker 2: people on a rope somewhere on a mountain where I've

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Speaker 2: already climbed it before. So I'd rather be somewhere new

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Speaker 2: and different. And I think that's what drives me in

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Speaker 2: life sometimes. Yeah, what did How did it hit different?

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Speaker 1: When you get up there and you're like, I'm the first,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably the first human who's ever met up here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh well, first I was like going up and

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Speaker 2: I'm climbing up this ridge and I thought, well, shoot,

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Speaker 2: what if I get to the top and there's like

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Speaker 2: somebody's left something out there, and then I'm not the

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Speaker 2: first And I was like, ah, but still, like, we

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Speaker 2: haven't seen a person in over five days is to

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Speaker 2: even get to this mountain, so I'm pretty sure, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: pretty sure, we're good. So yeah, it's just a whole different,

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Speaker 2: whole different feel, a whole different experience, And I think

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Speaker 2: in life that's what I thrive on is new and

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Speaker 2: different experiences all the time. It makes my brain work differently.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 1: So my theory on that quote the reason that I

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Speaker 1: think it's bs. You probably just needed an answer for

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Speaker 1: the journalists who asks. I think people find something inherently

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Speaker 1: rewarding about taking on these big challenges. Right, It's not

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Speaker 1: just that it's there. There's a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: are just there that you could do, but the fact

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Speaker 1: that there's he would be the first. He knows it's

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Speaker 1: going to be extremely hard. He's going into the unknown

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Speaker 1: and he's got to figure it out, and that's going

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Speaker 1: to be tough. He knew that that was there was

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Speaker 1: something inherently special about that. Do you identify with that?

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Speaker 1: Climbing mountains?

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Speaker 2: I identify with it a ton for a few reasons. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think the biggest one is growth overall. I go

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Speaker 2: to these mountains now and some of them I get

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Speaker 2: to go to over and over again, and the growth comes.

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Speaker 2: And working with others to help them reach their goals.

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Speaker 2: But then what I started to take a part, especially

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Speaker 2: in the last two years now in my career because

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Speaker 2: since COVID so five or six years, I hadn't done

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Speaker 2: up until last fall. I hadn't done my own project

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Speaker 2: in like five or six years. I've read some books,

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Speaker 2: I've done some like ski projects over the years, some

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Speaker 2: you know, climbing, mountaineering and long distance type projects. But

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Speaker 2: for about five years after COVID, business for me got

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Speaker 2: so good that people were having me take them places.

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Speaker 2: And then I think a lot of us get like

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Speaker 2: this with our jobs, or our careers or our lives.

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Speaker 2: We let the busyness of life get in a way

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Speaker 2: and you put things off. And I was kind of

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Speaker 2: doing that, honestly. And then I got sort to a

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Speaker 2: point about a year and a half ago and I said,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute. I stopped myself and I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: there's this trail in the United States. It runs from

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Speaker 2: Canada to Mexico. It's called the Continental Divide Trail through

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Speaker 2: five states, Montana, I'd Oh, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.

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Speaker 2: I actually asked a friend of mine who I had

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Speaker 2: taken up Everest to go with me, and we went

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Speaker 2: and hiked the trail last fall for one hundred days.

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Speaker 2: That was my first project that I'd done for me

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Speaker 2: since COVID, and that felt good and it was a

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Speaker 2: reminder to continue to do things for me and so

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Speaker 2: then this year, the first ascent was the choice, and

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Speaker 2: then I've got some other things already on the radar

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Speaker 2: this year and in the next year. But it just

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Speaker 2: reminded me, and I think it's a good reminder for

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Speaker 2: people in general, like, stop what you're doing. Your life's

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Speaker 2: gonna still be there when you come back, So you

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Speaker 2: should pick something that's gonna change you. It's gonna help

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Speaker 2: you grow, it's gonna help it's gonna help push you,

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Speaker 2: and it might be hard and uncomfortable, but that's good.

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Speaker 2: And so I just took a lot from that experience

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Speaker 2: last year. It's springboarded me into this year and into

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Speaker 2: what I've got planned for the next three to five years.

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Speaker 1: Now, do you feel like that when you do the

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Speaker 1: thing for yourself that it then makes you better when

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Speaker 1: you go back into normal life, like with your work stuff.

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Speaker 2: Does it make that does it make you.

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Speaker 1: Perform better in that space, or does it make that

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Speaker 1: more rewarding or there's a question there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think I think that that experience on

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Speaker 2: the CDT because like it was kind of awesome to like,

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Speaker 2: for three ish months. Yeah, I had a little bit

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Speaker 2: of internet off and on, but then sometimes there were

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Speaker 2: days where we're backpacking had nothing. Yeah, and so that's

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Speaker 2: a good unplug I also realized when I was out there,

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, it's okay, Like take this time

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Speaker 2: for yourself because you know what life is going to

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Speaker 2: be there when I get back, and so yeah, then

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Speaker 2: it makes you appreciate life more. And then when you

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Speaker 2: get back to it, yeah, I haven't felt burnt out

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Speaker 2: at all. In fact, I feel more energized, which sounds crazy,

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of in line with what I think

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Speaker 2: we'll probably delve into for me as my Everest Ready philosophy,

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Speaker 2: and that's you know, we'll talk more about what that entails.

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Speaker 2: But flipping the switch on the mindset is something that

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Speaker 2: these hard adventures do for me. So when I come back,

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Speaker 2: even this trip to A Paul, I was gone for

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Speaker 2: six weeks. I got home and last night my family's like,

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Speaker 2: are you tired, Like what's going on? And I'm like, actually, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm more energized. I'm more recharged. And people think I'm crazy,

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Speaker 2: but it's the truth. Yeah, that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into the everest Ready mindset, I

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Speaker 1: think we needed two yet your experience on Everest. You've

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Speaker 1: climbed Everest how many times?

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Speaker 2: So? I've been on seven expeditions over the years, haven't

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Speaker 2: summitted on all of them because of various things that

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Speaker 2: have occurred right and challenges. But at least the three

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Speaker 2: clients that I've taken to the top twenty nineteen, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one, and twenty twenty four, I've all summitted, And

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Speaker 2: in my last summit was in twenty twenty four. So yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then there were some years in there where I

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Speaker 2: didn't summit because of an earthquake, one year you can't climb,

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Speaker 2: and then in two seasons. One of the seasons we

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Speaker 2: put some people up on a summit and I stayed

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Speaker 2: in Camp two on the radio. I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: compromise the fact that I had gotten like a chest

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Speaker 2: infection and stuff, and we had sure bus and team

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Speaker 2: members to help our clients, so I stayed in a

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Speaker 2: camp that I could be of assistance. And then I

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Speaker 2: tried one year without supplemental oxygen and turned around near

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Speaker 2: the summit, trying to sort of test myself but being conservative.

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Speaker 2: So sometimes I regret turning around, but at the same

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Speaker 2: time I knew it was in the moment, it was

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Speaker 2: the right choice. I was on the north side in

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Speaker 2: Tibet in twenty eighteen and was within an hour and

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Speaker 2: a half or two, but it was too early in

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Speaker 2: the morning and too windy, and there were a few

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Speaker 2: people on what's called the third step, and it was

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Speaker 2: just too cold and too windy in my opinion, and

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Speaker 2: I made the split second decisions to go down. And

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Speaker 2: I learned a lot from that experience. And I think

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Speaker 2: at some point, even though like the competitor and me,

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Speaker 2: will probably try to go back and finish the job,

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Speaker 2: so to speak. So we'll see. But yeah, Everest has

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Speaker 2: been has done a lot for me in seven expeditions

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Speaker 2: over the years. What Dunie to Evers in the first place.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in Vail, Colorado, So I as like

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Speaker 2: an eight year old kid. My parents took me up

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Speaker 2: mounted the Holy Cross, which is near Vale. And when

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Speaker 2: you're on top of that mountain and you learn in

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Speaker 2: elementary school with the highest mountain in the world, is

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Speaker 2: you kind of have something cangible? And so yeah, I

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Speaker 2: was like as an eight year old kid, I knew

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Speaker 2: I wanted to try to climb into the mountain and

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Speaker 2: learned as much as I could about it, and eventually

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Speaker 2: it led me there. Yeah, So ever's ready mindset? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: tell us about that? Well, it's I think it goes

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Speaker 2: a few different directions, but it's mainly just taking at

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Speaker 2: a basic level. I could get off the couch, or

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Speaker 2: I could leave from this room and go climb Everest

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Speaker 2: on a whim, no problem, because I've created a lifestyle

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Speaker 2: that's lend itself to being ready at any given moment

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Speaker 2: for that sort of pursuit. Maybe you're constantly active, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so but what also it means is it exemplifies

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Speaker 2: in life how, Yeah, there may be tough challenges that

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Speaker 2: we face, there may be tasks that we might not

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Speaker 2: necessarily want to do. For many people on this earth,

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Speaker 2: we're never at the end of our development as a person,

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Speaker 2: and at times there's going to be huge roadblocks, challenges,

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Speaker 2: things that we don't want to do that we have

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Speaker 2: to face them, And how is our attitude towards facing

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Speaker 2: them as well to get through those tough times.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, if your mind, if your body in

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Speaker 1: your mind, are ready for Everest actual Everest at any moment.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like when the sort of bs of

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Speaker 1: life pops up, problems happened, You're like, well, I'm ready

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Speaker 1: for this. The literally the world's tallest mountain. I can

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Speaker 1: probably figure this out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't sweat the small stuff, but like learn

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Speaker 2: how to flip the switch towards things that are really

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Speaker 2: really scary, hard, inconvenient, and if you seek god discomfort,

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Speaker 2: you're going to find that at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: what's so bad about it? What's so hard about it?

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Speaker 2: So I kind of all those things are sort of

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Speaker 2: packaged into what this framework means to me, and what

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Speaker 2: I want to share with others is that they can

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Speaker 2: face their challenges head on if they have the right

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Speaker 2: attitude and perspective.

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Speaker 1: Is what is your climbing on ever taught you about

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Speaker 1: not sweating small stuff?

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Speaker 2: Mainly like you come home after being there sometimes and

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Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's cold, it's scary. There's like the crevasses

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Speaker 2: can be crazy going through these ladders. That's the biggest thing.

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Speaker 2: People see the crowds, which the media sensationalizes. The summits

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Speaker 2: I've had have actually been we wait and we go

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Speaker 2: later in the season when the weather is better and

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Speaker 2: less people, so we kind of avoid that as well.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just taking taking on any sort of

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Speaker 2: challenge in life. And for me, like like even coming

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Speaker 2: home and driving driving over here today after flying to

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Speaker 2: Vegas and like someone cuts me off on the highway,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well that's fine. Yeah, it doesn't bother me.

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Speaker 2: Actually a lot of things that should bother me don't anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: through various experiences that I've had in the mountains that

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Speaker 2: have changed me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it just puts it puts things in perspective more

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Speaker 1: or less. I've definitely experienced that with if I like

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Speaker 1: to say, like when I got back from the Arctic,

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Speaker 1: I was up there for like a month, and my

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Speaker 1: wife Leah said, like, nothing really stresses you out anymore.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, that's.

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Speaker 1: Because up there, like there were actual problems of oh

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Speaker 1: we need water and we got a hike forever to

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Speaker 1: get it, or there's grizzly bears, or there's some crazy storm.

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Speaker 1: And so then when I come home and you know,

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Speaker 1: the HOA has dinged me with a violation for not

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Speaker 1: pulling a weed, I'm just like, whatever I might have

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Speaker 1: been those sons of bitches, I'm going to show the

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Speaker 1: ho way and start a revolution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely hear you on that. So when you

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Speaker 1: talk to people, because you talk to a lot of

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Speaker 1: groups about this, how do you find people are applying

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Speaker 1: evers mindset and using it being evers ready.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of it comes with the challenges

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Speaker 2: within the corporate structure sometimes, you know, and even like, uh,

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Speaker 2: if I do a keynote speech. Sometimes at events we

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Speaker 2: do connection walks and hikes so people can actually actively

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Speaker 2: get out and hike and walk together and discuss in

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Speaker 2: a group. And we find that by getting people outdoors

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Speaker 2: they're willing to open up more just a basic sense,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, applying some of the frameworks there of being

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Speaker 2: ever ready allows people to be more vulnerable even sometimes

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Speaker 2: and uh and and open up on the basic level.

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Speaker 1: I do feel like that the walking outside together is

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Speaker 1: powerful and there is research that shows when people are

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Speaker 1: walking side by side outdoors, they tend to have conversations

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Speaker 1: where they definitely connect deeper. And especially in a corporate structure,

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Speaker 1: everyone's kind of on guard. You don't want to say

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing, like what am I doing the.

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Speaker 2: Right to get rid of surface level stuff? Yeah, you realize, hey,

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Speaker 2: it's it's it's okay, and hey, we're out here too

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Speaker 2: and know, and then one of the events they did

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Speaker 2: in Arizona in April, saw this huge snake and then

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Speaker 2: like after that, it's like all of a sudden, the

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Speaker 2: conversations people start opening up, even after just seeing that,

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Speaker 2: like the snake go across the trail and you know,

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Speaker 2: so like got people it's just kind of going.

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Speaker 1: Adding some element of risk almost makes people bond more. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: have you found out what the people you climb with?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, and trusting the process and then yeah,

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Speaker 2: on some of these trips, you know, especially like on

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Speaker 2: the seven Summits. For me, I've had so many summits

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Speaker 2: over the years and success, so when I'm there, people

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Speaker 2: trust me. But sometimes in the early going of a trip,

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Speaker 2: if something goes wrong, or if it's too windy or

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Speaker 2: the weather's too bad and people have doubts, then it's

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Speaker 2: really interesting to see people's character too. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 2: love what expeditions do to people with patients, right, because

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Speaker 2: we're so insta gratification now society, whether it's like phone

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Speaker 2: in our hand, something needs to load immediately, and when

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Speaker 2: you're out on an expedition, and first of all, just

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Speaker 2: put your devices away, but second of all, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: summit might not be a week away, two weeks away,

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Speaker 2: a month away, And how do people handle that and

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Speaker 2: bring card games out of bring like you know, all

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Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. We're playing Jenga in the dining tent,

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Speaker 2: like we just do different things and then also get

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Speaker 2: people just to have some patience. And it's amazing, like

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Speaker 2: how some people don't deal with that very well and

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Speaker 2: some people do. Do they get better over time or

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Speaker 2: does it just get worse? It just really just depends

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Speaker 2: on the person.

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Speaker 1: What do you think separates the people who understand, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a month away, this is what I've bought into,

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Speaker 1: this is what it's going to take.

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Speaker 2: We can't rush this because if we try and rush it,

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Speaker 2: we're going to die. Yeah, we're blasted or we're not

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Speaker 2: acclimatized yet, right. There so many little things that can

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Speaker 2: go into it. Yeah, I think it depends on the person.

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Speaker 2: The people that have maybe had to persevere something as

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Speaker 2: as simple as something in their career or sports related

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Speaker 2: are often do the best. And the people that need

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Speaker 2: to be too wired or have to have Wi Fi

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Speaker 2: like that could be a problem. Sometimes it's pretty pretty crazy.

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Speaker 1: What conversations do you have with them? Is that you

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Speaker 1: being like you need to chill out?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, try to, Yeah, but it's try to interact to

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Speaker 2: try to get them to do something else or like

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Speaker 2: even if it's like hey, let's go out of the

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Speaker 2: base camp and go for a side hike or you know,

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Speaker 2: try to occupy them. Yeah, I've become a professional time waster,

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Speaker 2: so to speak. Awesome.

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Speaker 1: You're like, you're kind of like a scout camp leader. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: kids are getting restless. You're like, hey, guys, let's go

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Speaker 1: out and look for error ads. Yeah, we're going to

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Speaker 1: find some.

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Speaker 2: But the good things that we've added over the years

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Speaker 2: to a lot of these trips are like yeah, just

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Speaker 2: trying to trying to make them even try to bring

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Speaker 2: the comfort out there. So you know, a chef in

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Speaker 2: the base camp cooking good meals, a massage therapist, a

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Speaker 2: yoga instructor, like things that you know some people might

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Speaker 2: have at home, bring you got to bring it out there,

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Speaker 2: and then it's and then it makes the experience it's

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Speaker 2: not quite as bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And I think there's a people can kind

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Speaker 1: of have this thing like, oh, you had you had

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Speaker 1: all these comforts out there, what do you do that

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Speaker 1: like nullifies it. Right when I did the Haydu Trail

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Speaker 1: last year, our thinking was, this thing is already so

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Speaker 1: damn hard. Why are we not going to take advantage

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Speaker 1: of things like the softer mattress and carry that. Why

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Speaker 1: are we going to just like try to make this

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Speaker 1: any harder than it already is. Like, that's just going

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Speaker 1: to lead us to fail. It's like, what can we

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Speaker 1: do that'll improve our odds of making it? And whether

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Speaker 1: that's a chef, whether that's you know, in our case,

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Speaker 1: like we're going to carry the slightly heavier mattress, We're

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Speaker 1: going to make sure we do a down day every

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Speaker 1: seven days or whatever.

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Speaker 2: It is, like that allows.

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Speaker 1: You to complete the whole thing, because the whole thing

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Speaker 1: is going to be hard as hell, and if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to just go too far and make it almost

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Speaker 1: austere for the sake of that, that can just totally backfire.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like that's what Mike and I do on

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Speaker 2: the continent of the Vibe Trail last summer too. You know,

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Speaker 2: going into it, it was like, hey, okay, there are

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Speaker 2: people that come out and start in June or you know,

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Speaker 2: if they're going north. We went north to south or

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Speaker 2: people go south to north on the trail and they

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Speaker 2: start in April or May and they're out there for

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty days, which is like five months.

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Speaker 2: And when we were looking at that, we both kind

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Speaker 2: of liked said, well, Okay, I'm busy leading expeditions and

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Speaker 2: trips and living my life. You're busy with your concerts

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Speaker 2: and playing music and pursuing that. Do we both really

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Speaker 2: want to be away for five months? And the answer

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Speaker 2: that was no. And it was like, well, okay, is

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Speaker 2: there way to shorten that? Yes, you have to do

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Speaker 2: more miles. Okay, is there a way to surround some

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Speaker 2: of our favorite friends and family with that experience? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's get it. Let's get it sponsored. Let's get an RV,

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Speaker 2: and then we're going to have we're going to slot

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Speaker 2: in people our best friends and family as crew at

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Speaker 2: two or three people at a time, for cooking meals,

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Speaker 2: picking us up from trail heads, dropping us off this

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Speaker 2: massive spreadsheet, which was a lot of work, but once

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Speaker 2: we had it rolling, it shortened the trip by two months,

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Speaker 2: and then we still we enjoyed the heck out of

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Speaker 2: it because we had airstream sponsor us and we had

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Speaker 2: some other companies pitch in, and then we were able

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Speaker 2: to kind of do it glamping style, and then we

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Speaker 2: started to learn as we did research of the trail,

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Speaker 2: I was like, well, I'd say maybe twenty to thirty

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Speaker 2: of the days we still had to backpack, but the

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Speaker 2: other sixty to seventy days, it was Okay, here's a

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Speaker 2: highway forty and here's highway thirty, and we have a

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Speaker 2: twenty eight mile a day from road to road. Okay,

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Speaker 2: can we do that with a running best? Sure? And

396
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Speaker 2: we did some big days and it was inspiring and motivating,

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Speaker 2: and some people with other friends would come and hike

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Speaker 2: with us, and so we were able to create sort

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Speaker 2: of more of a community feel with it with our

400
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Speaker 2: closest friends and family, as opposed to what we also

401
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Speaker 2: found out there. We met some great people on the trail,

402
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Speaker 2: but they did it the hard way, admittedly, where they

403
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,159
Speaker 2: just took their backpacks, carried all their food and supplies

404
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 2: solid the whole trip. They would have to hitchhike into

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Speaker 2: towns and resupply and that just took them a long time.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of these people were pretty frail at

407
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Speaker 2: the end, and we were being well fed, you know,

408
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Speaker 2: and I was. I'm not going to apologize for that

409
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 2: because we dialed it up that way, but that was

410
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Speaker 2: sort of the purpose of it. And then we ended

411
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Speaker 2: up finding out we had so much fun doing it

412
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Speaker 2: versus suffering, and so we turned the challenge of yeah

413
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Speaker 2: it was hard to into more like fun too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure there are there were hard times, but

415
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Speaker 1: you're also able to pull this other level of like.

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Speaker 2: I think there was a lot less type three fun.

417
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Speaker 2: There was more Type one and type two fun in there.

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Speaker 2: You know, let's go, it's good, got it. Life is

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Speaker 2: all about balance, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So you is it right that you climbed every fourteen

421
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Speaker 1: or in Colorado before you were eighteen?

422
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I grew up doing all the mountains because

423
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Speaker 2: I'm out of my back door. When I got my

424
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 2: learner's permit as a fifteen year old kid, I would

425
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Speaker 2: drive to trailheads, and back then there were only some

426
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Speaker 2: trails on these fourteen ers, and you get above tree line.

427
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Speaker 2: On most of them, there was no trail. So that

428
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Speaker 2: goes back to like this essence of expiration. You's got

429
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Speaker 2: to figure it out. I loved, Yeah, figure it out.

430
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Speaker 2: And yeah, and then as a skier, I always wanted

431
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 2: to ski them. So I also went back and skied

432
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 2: down all their coloraud of fourteen ers, and then obviously

433
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: did that other project called Sleeping on the Summits, which

434
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 2: was one of my books, which was camping up on

435
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: the tops of all these mountains to enjoy the view,

436
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 2: the sunset, sunrise photos and then acclimate my body for

437
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: bigger challenges. And yeah, all this fourteener stuff just led

438
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 2: me into wanting to do the mountains all over the world.

439
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 2: What was the most dangerous one to ski for fourteen ers? Yeah,

440
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: Capital is pretty difficult, Pyramids pretty difficult. They're both in

441
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: their aspen steep. They're just really steep. They have no

442
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 2: fall zones on them, and like a good thing that

443
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: Like when I did that project, I had skied most

444
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 2: of the fourteen ers over the years, and I went

445
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: back and tried to attempt them all in the same

446
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: year in twenty sixteen, which is now ten years ago.

447
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 2: But when I compare that winter to what we just

448
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: had for a winter this winter, would have not been

449
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: possible really to ski most of them because too much

450
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: ice to to lack of snow. Yeah, I mean, just

451
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: not enough coverage not enough. The winter was so poor

452
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 2: in Colorado, so pretty lucky that that year was a

453
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 2: really big winter snow wise to be able to ski

454
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 2: down all the peaks.

455
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and then John

456
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: is going to tell us what he learned sleeping at

457
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: the peak of every single fourteen or in Colorado.

458
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: What'd you learn from sleeping on the peaks? What I

459
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: learned from sleeping on the peaks was I did the

460
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 2: sleeping on the summits before the full ski project, even

461
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: though I had skied a lot of the fourteen ers

462
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 2: when I was younger, because that was one thing that

463
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: was lost in the translation of the twenty sixteen. I

464
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: went and attempted all of them and was able to

465
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 2: summit all of them. And then there was controversy whether

466
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 2: it's not I skied down certain ones, and I was like,

467
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 2: well no, because it was too rocky. Still, I had

468
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 2: to repel something, and it was, you know, not complete

469
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 2: ski descents on a couple of them, but almost all

470
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: of them. Is still skied down, all of them. But

471
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 2: I guess what I'm saying about that project was a

472
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 2: lot of people are like, oh, well, how's he doing

473
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: this so fast? Like this guy's never skied all these

474
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 2: mountains before. I was like, well, actually, I'd already skied

475
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 2: most of them prior to that, and that was because,

476
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: you know, I was grew up a skier. But then

477
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 2: the fourteen Ers Sleeping project was four years before that,

478
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: and so I had taken all this data right from Okay, well,

479
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: people ask me questions about like when I spent the

480
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 2: night on all the fourteen Ers, Well, what did you

481
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 2: do when you're up there? Well, as a skier, I

482
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: actually dialed in like if I were to come back

483
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: and ski all these how would I ski them? And

484
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 2: you studied you know, you're sitting up there for hours, right,

485
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was shooting photos, but you can only

486
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 2: shoot so many pictures at sunrise and sunset if you're

487
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: up there for two or three hours. Besides, you know,

488
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 2: drinking water and nutrition sitting around You're like, okay, well

489
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: it'd be really cool to go off this face, Right'd

490
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: be really cool to go that face. So studying the

491
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: geography of the peaks too, and that aided me four

492
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: years later and to be able to put together a

493
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: project that was about four or five months in the

494
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: making of skiing all the fourteen ers in one season.

495
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: This is kind of pivoting.

496
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: Why do you think the outdoor world there's so much like,

497
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, like a pissing contest.

498
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, like competitiveness, chess put I feel like it's unique.

499
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: There's unlike, it's unlike anything I've ever seen to my attention,

500
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: more in the last like ten years, especially with more

501
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: social media, because my projects were built on this sort

502
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: of go out test myself progression. And I've always thought

503
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 2: the outdoors were for you to create your own project, right,

504
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: And the reason for me doing these things is that like, yeah,

505
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I just love being out there and it's like, well,

506
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: is this possible? Is this possible? It's just like a

507
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 2: cur genuine curiosity for the outdoors, not a measuring stick.

508
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: And the thing with the outdoors is the conditions changed

509
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 2: so much too so when people try to let's say

510
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 2: the guys that do FKTs fastest known times. A good

511
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 2: example is even this year on Everest, Tyler Andrews did

512
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: his fastest known time up the mountain with oxygen and

513
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: he bested a Sherpa from ten or fifteen years prior

514
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: by about an hour. But my argument even with that,

515
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,239
Speaker 2: is that for both of those guys, because I've been

516
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 2: in the Ice Fall so many times, well, what if

517
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 2: the year that the other guy did at the ice

518
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: Fall had more turns in it because of the way

519
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: that the trail gets created. So for that kind of record,

520
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 2: I don't really see the point. I mean, yeah, you're

521
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: fast going up at great But like, and as similar

522
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: to some of the projects I've done over the years,

523
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: at times, if it's come out in the community that

524
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: I've done something, there's always haters, right, There's always somebody

525
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: that comes down and like, oh, well he didn't do

526
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: this one or he didn't see that peak, And I

527
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, but I wasn't trying to compare myself

528
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: to others. I was just trying to test myself and

529
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: to see what is possible in that season and to

530
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: have fun. And I'm like, I think you guys are

531
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: all getting lost and like the fact that I'm just

532
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 2: out having fun and I want to encourage other people

533
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: to go out and do their own adventures so that

534
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 2: it goes back to this idea of like growth and

535
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: enjoyment and fulfillment and things that we all should seek.

536
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, so that's kind of been my purpose in

537
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 2: the outdoors, and that's changed with my why now too. Right,

538
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: So over the years I would do my own projects.

539
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: I kind of got away from that because my why

540
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: also shifted for Mount Everaricet or for the Seventh Summits.

541
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: I don't really go back to the Seven Summits on

542
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 2: my own anymore. It's okay, what client has the same

543
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: values as me? Are they seeking out to potentially change

544
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: their life or to work towards something? And those are

545
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: usually the people that I gravitate towards.

546
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: What qualities do you think people who make it to

547
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: the top half you mentioned patients? Is there other things

548
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: that you see pop up like these are the sort

549
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: of skill set you need beyond just you need being shared?

550
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's the It's the patience mainly obviously perseverance

551
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: and the willing to kind of up their level of

552
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: whatever it is, attention, endurance, facing their fears. Mike Posner

553
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: and Devin Levec in particular in twenty twenty one and

554
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, both great guys, both distinctly different in

555
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: the mount on the mountain with their approach both authentic

556
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: though and great people to work with, but you know,

557
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: they both had sort of their own whys, and they

558
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: both were successful because they both were willing to put

559
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: in the extra effort too.

560
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean putting the extra effort on

561
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: the mountain or in preparation or all.

562
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, preparation. And then you could see for both of

563
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: them why their lives are so successful off the mountain,

564
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: you know. And and I just love working with people

565
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: like that. That drives me for sure. Yeah, you know,

566
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 2: it's a lot of fun. Yeah, We're going to take

567
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 2: a quick.

568
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: Break, and then John is going to tell us more

569
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: about the Everest Ready mindset and how you can find it.

570
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: What are some of the more harrowing experiences you've had

571
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: on Everest.

572
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 2: I'd say there's been two or three moments where well,

573
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: the earthquake was probably the biggest one that changed my life.

574
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: What was that like? So in twenty fifteen, I went

575
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: there on my own actually to climb and ski Everston

576
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: Lotzi at the time. And when I went there, I

577
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: barely got to the mountain and this giant seven point

578
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: nine magnitude earthquake happens. We're in base camp. A big

579
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: sonic wave of ice and snow come down from a

580
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: side mountain across from Everest and wipes out the base

581
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: camp and kills twenty people right in front of me.

582
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: Holy crap. And I was above the base camp, like

583
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: my camp was luckily higher up than the main part

584
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: of base camp, so we didn't get hit by the

585
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: last of ice and snow and wind. And when we

586
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: went down into the disaster zone, there was twenty people

587
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: dead and many people injured, and you know, we're helping

588
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: carry injured to helipads. Obviously people were dead and you're

589
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: just like, wow, I could have been me. And that

590
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: experience really changed my life because except for the COVID year,

591
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: since twenty fifteen, I go back every year two or

592
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: three times to Nepal, taking various groups to their climb mountains,

593
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: track hike. We run a study abroad program now with

594
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: one of the colleges. So I just my calling is

595
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: like I got home from that experience and my parents

596
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: hugged me, and my mom and dad said to me, well,

597
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: what are you going to do with this now? And

598
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, what do you mean? And my Dad's like, well,

599
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: you got to live, Like what are you going to

600
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: do now? And I just because of that, I have

601
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: very few bad days now, I've I've never tired. I'm

602
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: always excited to get up and go again and live

603
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 2: because I feel like I could have just been wiped out. Yeah,

604
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: and that's experience really just profoundly changed how I mean.

605
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: It's not like I had a bad too before that,

606
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: but I just think it it really pushed my level

607
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 2: even higher. Put in Christmas and it just yeah, and

608
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: it just allows me to live more fulfilling and more

609
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: excited life about anything that I'm doing. Yeah, regardless.

610
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: And you've had people on the mountain that have been

611
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: in a sort of bad shape that you've helped, right, Yeah.

612
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: So in twenty twelve, on my first climb, you know,

613
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: there was sort of like this incident that happened similar

614
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: to what happened on Into Thinner, like John krack Hour's

615
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: book where I in twenty twelve, that was my first

616
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: climb I've ever. So I couldn't really afford to go

617
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: with like a big company, so I went with a

618
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: smaller company. I paid like twenty nine grand for my

619
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: first ever expedition. The trip included some like help with

620
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: some of the camps, but like buy and large, I

621
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: was on my own on the mountain. Yeah, most trips

622
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: are how much are most trips like now seven sixty

623
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: to one hundred grand with a lot of shirp support

624
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: and open things. But anyway, I was on a summit push.

625
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: We decided that sort of the team, there were several

626
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: other people on the team I was on that all

627
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: sort of had paid different amounts of money to be

628
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: there with either a shirt bo or have oxygen available,

629
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: and to avoid crowds on the mountain, we waited an

630
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 2: extra day. But by waiting an extra day, we were

631
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: risking higher winds. But that meant I'd rather hike in

632
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: a non traffic jam. But there was so many people

633
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: that were up on the mountain as this windstorm came

634
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: in when we were going for the summit, that people

635
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: seven people died that night. Wow. And there were people

636
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: that you couldn't help, and then there were people on

637
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: our team that needed help. And basically I ended up

638
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 2: aboarding a summit push, going back to base camp, and

639
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: then three or four days later having to skip camps

640
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: to actually reach the summit. And that was the topic

641
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: of a Dayline NBC documentary called Into the Death Zone,

642
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: and that sort of because I was my first climb

643
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: of Everest, and that with the timing of my books,

644
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: gave me at the time kind of a platform to

645
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: create this career in the outdoors. Yeah, and so Everest

646
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: for me was this story of overcoming all odds. Like

647
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: there were so many people that quit after that summit push,

648
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: because usually when you get within five hundred feet of

649
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: the summit, you only get one shot. You go back

650
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: to base camp, you're exhausted. But at the time, I

651
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: was in my early thirties and I was a beast,

652
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 2: which I pried upon, like always growing up in the

653
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: mounds and just pushing myself. And I knew that I

654
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: also I knew that if I gave up on that investment,

655
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: like what was going to happen to my life? I

656
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: didn't know. I was like I got to go back up,

657
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: and my friends and family supported me, and I went

658
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 2: back up and made it to the top of the world.

659
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: And ever since that day, Yeah, my career just took

660
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: off in terms of I think that gave me the

661
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: momentum that I wanted to be able to do other

662
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: things and just enjoy not having failed on Everest hanging

663
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: over my head.

664
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: What do you think was the switch that flipped that

665
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: where most people are going, I'm not doing this.

666
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: I think fear of death or exhaustion, or genuinely strength.

667
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: I mean, we were in one hundred mile prior winds

668
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: getting blasted one night and I covered up and came

669
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: down and myself and a few sherpas were helping others

670
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: to get back to tents and give them oxygen. And

671
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: for some reason, why was an ie suffering? It was

672
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: sort of odd. It was like, well, I think it's

673
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: because I grew up in the mountains and I've been climbing,

674
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 2: and I have a natural affinity for altitude. And I'm okay,

675
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: you know, just by fortune, I guess, but maybe not

676
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: an accident, but yeah, so yeah. So then when I

677
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: got down from that, it actually gave me a lot

678
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: of confidence. I was like, wait, if I can do that,

679
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: I think I could do anything. Yeah. And then I

680
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 2: wanted to do some other expeditions and get some of

681
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: my guide certifications and become a ski guy and a

682
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: mountain guide and all that kind of stuff too. And

683
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: that's how the right after that, in twenty fourteen, I

684
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: led some trips to kill Them and Jarro and Atcancagua

685
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 2: and that gave me some confidence that maybe I can

686
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: create a career out of this thing.

687
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: We're going to take a break and then John is

688
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: going to tell us about how he balances risk on

689
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: these really dangerous climbs.

690
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: How do you balance risk? What do you think about it?

691
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: I feel like most people if they're up there and now, yeah,

692
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: as I go, okay, maybe mountaineering is not for me.

693
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: When I'm guiding, it's more conservative approach. Though when I'm

694
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: not guiding, I can push it a little more and

695
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: be more aggressive. But even even on trips where like

696
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, a dear friend of mine, Colin

697
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 2: ol Brady, he invited me on the K two Winter

698
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: Expedition where there was several climbers attempting to become the

699
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: first people in the winter to summit K two. And

700
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: when I went on that trip with him, I had

701
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: different acceptable levels of risk than he did. Yours are higher,

702
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: oh much lower, except well a higher meaning like a

703
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,479
Speaker 2: I don't accept if it's too cold or too windy. Yeah, yeah,

704
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: So I guess my level of risks tolerance is probably

705
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 2: a little bit lower than his. But we had because

706
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: they're such good friends, We've done other projects together. We

707
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: sort of had an agreement like on the trip is

708
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: like at any time, if either one of us wanted

709
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: to pull the plug, that's okay, because we had also

710
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 2: hired shrip Was to climb with and in that particular instance,

711
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: and they'll be a There's a documentary coming out this

712
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: summer on Apple TV called The Last First about K two,

713
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: and it's about that trip and what happened because five

714
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 2: people have lost their lives, and three of them lost

715
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: their lives on the summit push where Colin and I

716
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 2: walked out of base camp, we went up towards Camp one,

717
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 2: started going up to some of the ropes after we

718
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: had already climatized up to Camp two on the mountain,

719
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: and I just melt a rat and a lot of

720
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 2: different ways. One was that because of my background on

721
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: neurology having access to good weather forecasts, I just knew

722
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: the weather wasn't going to be acceptable. It's going to

723
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: be too cold and too windy. And then I also

724
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: knew that there was a bunch of other somewhat amateur

725
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: climbers going on this summit push, and I felt like

726
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: that wasn't a safe thing to be up there when

727
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: they were, and those two things for me just were

728
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 2: enough evidence to say, look, calm, it's okay. You can

729
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: take the shirp as we have and go for an attempt.

730
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: You'll be safe with them, relatively safe with them. But

731
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: I'm out. I'm going to go down to base camp.

732
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,479
Speaker 2: I'll be on the radio. I still support you going

733
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: to the top. And then in the days after that,

734
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: which this documentary will really cover, is three people lost

735
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: their lives and then two more on the course of

736
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 2: that trip died, so five guys never came home. And

737
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: that experience too changed my risk tolerance a lot of

738
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: times with what I'm doing in my own career. Even Yeah,

739
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: it's kind of an interesting thing. Even lately I've been

740
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 2: talking with other climbers and my I sort of feel

741
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: the profession reading some things even just like learning, talking

742
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 2: like my parents and people that are older, and I

743
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: feel like as we all get older, like for me,

744
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: I'm in my forties, but like, there's things I won't

745
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 2: do now that I would have done in my twenties

746
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: and thirties. And it's not even about me saying I'm

747
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: too old to do it, because I don't have that attitude. Still,

748
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: I still do a lot of climbing and trips, and

749
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: I'm out there living, but it's more about learning about

750
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: what those consequences are and knowing that I want to

751
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 2: just live longer and not deal with that risk anymore,

752
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: that I say no. And an example that is like,

753
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: at one time I thought I'd want to climb the

754
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 2: fourteen highest mountains in the world, the eight thousand meter peaks.

755
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: Through my twenties and thirties, I pursued several expeditions on

756
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: mountains like Manisley that I summoned it without oxygen or

757
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: gasherbrum two, and then I went to K two. But

758
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: then I thought, okay, cool. At some point I might

759
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: end up on Annapurna or canchin Junger or some of

760
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: these hard or more dangerous eight thousand ers, And at

761
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: this time I look at them and I'd rather go

762
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: climb my first ascent on a mountain that's not as dangerous,

763
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: or go do an old I run ultras, run one

764
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: hundred k like I'm going to do this summer and

765
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 2: go explore new countries and do things that aren't as

766
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: dangerous anymore. And I'm okay with it. And I used

767
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: to say, oh, I definitely want to do that. I

768
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: definitely want to do that. I want to put myself

769
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: in that area. And I now I'm kind of that

770
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: perception for me is changing.

771
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of those are notable simply because they're risky.

772
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're really big and dangerous mountains. Yeah, you know.

773
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: And so it kind of it almost goes back to

774
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: that like measuring stick like you were talking about. Yeah,

775
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: it's like, why do we want to do this, well

776
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: because people think it's awesome. What do they think it's

777
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: awesome because it's risky And you go, oh wait, but

778
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: I'm the one who's going to actually be putting my

779
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: life on the line for a couple of pots on

780
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: the back from my head.

781
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and at the end of the day,

782
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: nobody really cares except myself or my family or my

783
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 2: close friends. Are my loved ones, Like I could care

784
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: less about what a photo does on social media. And

785
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 2: I think that's the most important takeaway for me living

786
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: now that I think a lot of people should start

787
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: paying attention due because yeah, there are all these like

788
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: record seekers and people that are going out and doing

789
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: mountains just to say the look at me, look at me,

790
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: and that sort of loses its value. I think it

791
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: loses its value a lot because the reason becomes outward

792
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: not inward. Yeah. Yeah, and you see that unfortunately the

793
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: most on Mount Everest. Yeah, you know, this season it

794
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: was the worst it's ever been. Well, we had the

795
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: most summits in the history of the mountain. And if

796
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: you go do a search on social the amount of

797
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: people just doing the look at me, look at me

798
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: is really the present and then there's not a ton

799
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 2: of Well the media highlights certain things or certain people

800
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: sometimes and you're sort of like, well, that's not really unique,

801
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 2: Like this person is climbing it. Well seven thousand, eight

802
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: thousand people, Now I've done that mountain. So yeah, it's

803
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 2: still a challenge. It's still highest moount in the world.

804
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: I do see why people are drawing to it, and

805
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 2: that's okay, but I think people need to dial back

806
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: their bravado, I think, and really take a hard look

807
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: at their Why why is K two so hard? Isn't

808
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: it considered the hardest? Yeah, it's so steep. It's only

809
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty feet lower than Everest. Yeah, so

810
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: because that's still really high. Yeah, and so what it

811
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: can do to the body is really really tough and

812
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 2: damaging and scary. And yeah, and now I look at

813
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 2: that mountain after experiencing it in the winter, and another

814
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: thing that kind of turns me off now is for

815
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: better or for worse, the commercialization of our mountains. And

816
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: that's why I have to sort of take this with

817
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: a little bit of a cautious approach, right, because I'm

818
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: part of that commercialization like it or not. I've brought

819
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: people to Everest, I bring people to mountains, but how

820
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 2: are we protecting these places? How are we managing them?

821
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: And how are we you know, when they can commercialize,

822
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: how is that impacting people's experiences and the safety when

823
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: they're there. And so for me, that's the epitome of

824
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: why I did choose a first ascent this season in

825
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: Nepaul over a commercialized mountain, because for me, some commercialized

826
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: mountains aren't growth anymore unless I can go to the

827
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: mountain with let's say, a small team myself and we

828
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 2: do all the work ourselves and we climb ourselves. One

829
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: of my heroes in the mountaineering space of eight thousand

830
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: meter peaks was Ed Viisters, the first to climb the

831
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: fourteen and he did it without supplemental oxygen, and he

832
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 2: did it in an era before buying large commercialization on mountains.

833
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: Somebody like that is just I admire because of what

834
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: they went through to accomplish that feat. And now when

835
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: you go the mountains are so commercialized, there's ropes everywhere,

836
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: there's people on them. It's easier like it or not,

837
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 2: for better or for worse. And it's okay if people

838
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: want that experience, I think people should go to the mountains.

839
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 2: But for me now it's I think it's more about

840
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 2: seeking these experiences that uh more will allow me to

841
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: grow more. Yeah, And so the combination of picking like

842
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: a first ascent or going to places I haven't gone before.

843
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: And if I'm guiding, I'm guiding somebody that that is

844
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 2: really for me. That's the project, is working with them

845
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: getting them to their summit. And those are the things

846
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: that allow me to grow now versus some experiences that

847
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: are different that I don't feel like challenge me as much.

848
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: It's almost like you've had to put put in more

849
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 1: work and there's more questions about the things that you're

850
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: doing now. So the first ascent you just did, no one,

851
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: no one had ever been there, it's not like you

852
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: could download yeah, try.

853
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 2: To look on Google Earth and we're like it's over here,

854
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: somewhere in this valley and kind of look there. But

855
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 2: it was okay, the only one and that was the thing,

856
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: like and and some of the people helped me out

857
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: that too, or people ask me questions about like, oh,

858
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: you could just google it and figure that out. I'm like, actually, no,

859
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: it doesn't work that way. You have a full lot

860
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: of map and then you have to go in the

861
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 2: valley and just go explore it. And that was fun

862
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: and figure out how you up, what route are you

863
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: going to take?

864
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: There's all these questions as whereas with the other thing,

865
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: if there's already all the ropes ready.

866
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: For yeah, they just kind of like rope in and

867
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: climbers show up and they just have to jug up

868
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: the rope and you're like, well, there's not growth in

869
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 2: that for me anymore.

870
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 1: There's more a mental component, yeah, to having to figure

871
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: out more things by yourself. If everything is sort of

872
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: fixed and pre planned, you just got to like do

873
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: exactly as you're told and then just push.

874
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah and then and so that's kind of like

875
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: now and I still get made fun of all the

876
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: time because I'm more like my dad with this, but

877
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 2: like he pulls out the old road outis still hey,

878
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: where are we going? HOI? He crewed Mike and I

879
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: for about forty to fifty percent of that Continental Divide trail.

880
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: We had to teach him how to use some of

881
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 2: the maps and Google maps to assist him because he

882
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 2: was pulling out road houses and he'd be like, well

883
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 2: is the road to get in there? And we're like, Dad,

884
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: it's on there, like yeah, you know, crazy and interesting

885
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: to see that too. But I do defend him on

886
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 2: some of that because a good example is even navigating here.

887
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: Instead of having Siri tell me where, I like to

888
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: pull up the whole map, see where it is, see

889
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: where I am, and then follow the map as is,

890
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 2: as opposed to have Siri tell me on it. And

891
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: I've still worked that way because I'm a geographer and

892
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: most people think I'm crazy. But I don't like to

893
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 2: shut my mind off and just have something tell me.

894
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 2: I like to learn as I go and worry it myself.

895
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned this study on the podcast before,

896
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: but there's this These researchers looked at four hundred different

897
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: careers and they wanted to know what careers tend to

898
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: get Alzheimer's and other degenerate brain diseases the most in

899
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: the least, and they found that the two jobs that

900
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: had the least amount of Alzheimer's were ambulance drivers and

901
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: taxi drivers. And the big reason, they thought, is because

902
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: they're having to pay attention to their environment and navigate

903
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: their environment all the time. And that seems to do

904
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 1: so if you think about an evolutionary context, people had

905
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: to figure out where they were in space, where they

906
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: were going all the time, and they had to do

907
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: it on the move, And there's something that's good for

908
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: our brain behind that. And then but today we can

909
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: obviously offload so much of that to just you.

910
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: Just follow the blue dog fall.

911
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: So if you can figure out ways to do more

912
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: of your figuring it out how to get from point

913
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: A to point B, that seems to be good for people.

914
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think

915
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 2: with all this technology and AI, that's the other part.

916
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: It's like, oh my gosh, I want to actually want

917
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: to write this email, like I actually want to think

918
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 2: on my own. And I think some people, especially the

919
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 2: younger generation, and get lost in this, in that and

920
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: not thinking on their own. That's kind of scary. Actually,

921
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: you know, technology is great, good for better or worse.

922
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, and I hope people don't get lost and

923
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 2: not being able to think on their own. What happened

924
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: when you got struck by lightning or you're tempted? Man,

925
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: that experience was crazy. Yeah. Basically, there was like a

926
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: rogue storm sort of coming over. It was in the fall,

927
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,919
Speaker 2: so you get these sort of like cold fronts that

928
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: move over the mountains in Colorado where kind of hails

929
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 2: and snows and yeah, and I was sitting in a tent.

930
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: I was actually I called my mom real quick to

931
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: check in. I had sell service and say, well, hey,

932
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: I only have like four peaks left in this project

933
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: and I can't wait to get done. And then and

934
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, there's like a flash boom

935
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 2: outside of my tent. I'm like, what the heck is this?

936
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 2: And uh, and then the tent poles were kind of

937
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: like buzzing and every yeah, and so I opened up

938
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: the zipper and look out and it was literally the

939
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 2: storm moving right over me. And then when you see, yeah,

940
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: like sort of lights flashing on the rocks and that's

941
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 2: it's called Sante Almo's fire happening. You know, lightning's going

942
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: to strike their pretty quick. And this was on a

943
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: mountain called Harvard. So as soon as I saw that,

944
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 2: I slipped my shoes on, jumped out of the tent

945
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: and jumped sort of off the summit block to get

946
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: down to the trail. Lightning struck the tent and knocked

947
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 2: me off my feet into the ground that I got up,

948
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: and I was like, just in fear for my life.

949
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: So I ran down the trail and it was kind

950
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: of in haste and it was dark, and next thing,

951
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: I know, maybe a thousand feet down from the summit,

952
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 2: and as storms moved through, car out of they moved

953
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 2: through quick usually, and so just it was over, stars

954
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 2: came out and I was like what And then I realized,

955
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 2: wait a minute, all my stuff's up there. It's the

956
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: middle of the night. Now it's like ten pm. I

957
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: can't go down. So I went back up to the

958
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: tent and just kind of looked and I'm like what

959
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: the heck, And like the charred remains in my headlamp

960
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: were sitting on my sleeping bag and then I and

961
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: then I kind of smelt burnt, like burned, and so

962
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: then I was well, I'm like, well, I have no

963
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 2: choice here. I just got go to bed. So I

964
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: got back and sleeping bag and fell asleep the morning

965
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: to light. Yeah, the storm was gone. It was beautiful morning.

966
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: I took a video of that, which is in the book.

967
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 2: The video. There's QR codes in the book show everything.

968
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah. And then and then I go to

969
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: take the tent down. The poles were melted together and

970
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 2: there were holes in the tent and it was like, yeah,

971
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 2: this got cooked pretty good, you know, but I escaped. Yeah, yeah,

972
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 2: it was. It was gnarly.

973
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: So you have a PhD. And tell us what an

974
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: environmental geography was.

975
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, emphasis is on weather and climate. So I

976
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: took climatology, meteorology, all those courses, glaciology and so yeah,

977
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: I'm essentially a meteorologist with my training and stuff. How

978
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: has that helped you in the mountains tremendously? Yeah, I

979
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 2: mean sleeping on the summits was a partnership my great

980
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: friend Chris Tomer, who's a he does mount weather for expeditions. Now,

981
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 2: that was sort of the infancy of his career because

982
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 2: after that, I sent him a lot of referrals after

983
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: that book came out and people would call him, and

984
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: now he does mountain weather for expeditions all over the world.

985
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: He had several clients on Everest this year. When I'm

986
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: on trips, he sends me forecasts. But anyway, at the time,

987
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: you know, this was twenty twelve, so you know, we

988
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: didn't really have those fancy weather apps where you can

989
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: just pull it up and look at the radar. But

990
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: I'd be up on a mountain, and after having climbed

991
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: those peaks through my childhood, I could be like, hey, okay,

992
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: we're on this. You know Mount Harvard, got stand by

993
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: that rock over there, and you have cell coverage and

994
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 2: and so then it would pop in and send me

995
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: messages about the current conditions and be like, hey, there's

996
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: a storm over. You know, being a vista, it looks

997
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: like it's moving away. Here, there's a storm over. Assmen,

998
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 2: it's coming towards you. You might want to get out

999
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: of the way, that kind of stuff. But it would

1000
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 2: allow me to watch the storms go by at eye level,

1001
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 2: and that would it was really fantastic because you know,

1002
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 2: I could stay up there or I'd have to make

1003
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: the call and get off, and you know it contributed

1004
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: success for sure, and trusting his judgment of what he

1005
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: was seeing on his radar and working as a metrologists.

1006
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: But then also I having studied weather and climate up

1007
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: being up there, I could be like, oh, yeah, that

1008
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 2: storm is definitely going to fade out of for sunset,

1009
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: or you know, I know they're prevailing winds today, I

1010
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 2: know that's going to go away, or hey, you know

1011
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: these cumulus clouds are going to develop even higher should

1012
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: probably be.

1013
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: So I feel like people overestimate, or rather they fear

1014
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: things like bears and snakes.

1015
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's the weather that kills you. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

1016
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 2: I mean I had to run in with the bear

1017
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 2: in one particular occasion on Little Bear. Have you done

1018
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: any fourteen ers over the years. I haven't. I haven't

1019
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,919
Speaker 2: spent much time in Colorado now. I'm I'm from Utah,

1020
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: so we're like kind of Colorado. You shune your family

1021
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: out for a hike? Yeah, something we'll have to yeah. Yeah.

1022
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: Regarding weather, do you feel like Everest is getting safer

1023
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: or more dangerous?

1024
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: So I've heard two really hard Yeah, that's a hard

1025
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 2: question because I feel like we do have good data,

1026
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: and we have good weather forecasting with basic trends and generally,

1027
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 2: but you know, I was in contact with Crys a

1028
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 2: lot this year. He had six different people on the mountain.

1029
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 2: And even though in general from a general meteorology trend,

1030
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: every year from about the fifteenth to the twenty fifth

1031
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: is kind of the sweet spot on Everest. And what

1032
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 2: I've found personally is it's twofold. If we do wait

1033
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: and let all the people that think the summit window

1034
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 2: opens and they go for it, and there's a bajillion

1035
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 2: people going up like this year there was two hundred

1036
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: and seventy eight people on the same day. It was

1037
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: a new record. When I gather info in base camp

1038
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 2: and see that many people going on a day, I

1039
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: don't go. I'm like, I'll wait, I'll wait a week.

1040
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: It's fine. But also we know meteorologically statistically the weather

1041
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 2: does get warmer from about the twenty first to the

1042
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: twenty eighth. On Everest every year it's warmer than in

1043
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 2: the teens, And so it's better just to wait. You're

1044
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: gonna be up there, it's going to be safer for

1045
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: you frostbite wise. There's gonna usually be less wind. This year,

1046
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: the people were summoning from about the when they got

1047
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: the ropes, and I think on like the fourteenth, all

1048
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,439
Speaker 2: the way through the twenty ninth, for a two week

1049
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: period there wasn't summits every day. But then this year

1050
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 2: it was odd because the jet stream lingers, and this

1051
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: can happen every year. Sometimes after the twentieth it's actually

1052
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: really really nice, and this year there was some days

1053
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: where it was souper windy and then people didn't sum it,

1054
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: or like even on the last some of the last

1055
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 2: summit pushes, my friend Garrett Madison was up there with

1056
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: his team and they waited in Camp four for an

1057
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: extra day because it got so windy and nobody summitted

1058
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: on like the twenty sixth or something like that, and

1059
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 2: then the next day people summitted. Interesting, and so it

1060
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 2: even though we have good tools to forecast the weather,

1061
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 2: that jet stream is unpredictable. It's unpredictable. Yeah, there's some

1062
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 2: days where even Chris was like, yeah, looks like it's

1063
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 2: gonna be maybe twenty mile prior wins and it's like, oh,

1064
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 2: it's terrible. And then and then there were days where

1065
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 2: it was forecasted maybe twenty and it was dead calm,

1066
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 2: and yeah, Unfortunately the four summits I've done have been

1067
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: twenty first, twenty third, twenty sixth, and June first, so

1068
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: later in the period, and always they've been good. Fortunately,

1069
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:49,959
Speaker 2: they've been really good.

1070
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: It's this push and poll of we have better weather technology, imperfect,

1071
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: but better. Yeah, but then also the rising popularity of

1072
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: the mountain where so yeah, tell people about like the

1073
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: Hillary step and how people have to wait and what's

1074
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: the danger in that?

1075
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the dangers higher up is that, yeah,

1076
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 2: it's cold, but and you got to keep moving. But

1077
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: you know most climbers don't evers climb with oxygen, so

1078
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: and when a guide to guide on it. So when

1079
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: you're up that high, if oxygen runs out, you're cooked,

1080
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 2: like it's like a drug. And so you could be

1081
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: going up and if you're taking too long on that

1082
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: Hillary step, and it's just why the trails as wide

1083
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: as this table. Okay, And so you couple you can

1084
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: see how you can't really get by. You can try

1085
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 2: you kind of wrap around. It's easier to get around

1086
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: people on the way down. And one of my summits

1087
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four with Devin was actually a crowded day.

1088
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 2: The way we avoided that was we started really early

1089
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: and we're on the summit at like five am and

1090
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 2: got off the summit before six am, and on the

1091
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 2: way down, tons of people were coming up and we

1092
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: just reached around and reached around them. And then once

1093
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 2: you got to the South Summit, which is maybe an

1094
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 2: hour down, you could get down real quick and out

1095
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: of there and it's you can get by people then.

1096
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: So so yeah, we were able to manage it accordingly.

1097
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 2: But that day there were a lot of people up

1098
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 2: there getting stuck. People can wait for hours, yeah, two hours,

1099
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: because then the other thing that happens in people's minds. Yeah,

1100
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 2: I mean gratefully, I've found that I've pretty clear head

1101
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: up on those heights. Even you know, they say, oh,

1102
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: people are focusing, they don't pay attention. I'm like, I'm

1103
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: pretty aware of everything that's going on. But I'll stand

1104
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 2: there and it's amazing how you try to talk to

1105
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 2: somebody and they're so locked in. And that's what happens

1106
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 2: on that step is you can be the line of

1107
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 2: climbers and they're coming up and no one will stop,

1108
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 2: and you know, rest for a second. Let you kind

1109
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 2: of come down and go by and you can end

1110
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 2: up standing there for like two hours. And if people

1111
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: if you run out of bucy, then that's when people's

1112
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: cognitive functions and people's decision making and people's stamina just

1113
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: goes down the tubes. And that's the biggest problem is

1114
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: with the lines. Yeah, we were reading about even this season,

1115
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 2: some people having a twenty four hour can't for to camp.

1116
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 2: If Camp ford a summit and back to Camp four

1117
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: for twenty four hours, how long does it usually take.

1118
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 2: It's way too long. Usually you should be going up

1119
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 2: from Camp four three thousand vertical to the summit in

1120
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: about six to ten hours. If you take longer than

1121
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 2: ten hours, something's wrong. And so when you do that,

1122
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 2: and then if you're a fastestcender, you can come down

1123
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 2: in two to four hours back to the camp, so

1124
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: you can do it in a twelve hour round trip.

1125
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: That's an acceptable time. Strong climbers will be a little faster.

1126
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: If someone's a little bit beat up, maybe they take

1127
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: fourteen hours. That's okay, we get pass about fourteen hours.

1128
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: You're in the death zone. Then bad things can happen,

1129
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 2: whether it's running out of oxygen or just being really

1130
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: exerted and not being able to move very well. And

1131
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: that's the one thing I'll pride myself upon with Everest

1132
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: is and I feel like it's very ethical. Is that. Yeah,

1133
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: we make sure we get our people up there for sunrise,

1134
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 2: we get them back down to Camp four about like

1135
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: nine or ten am, and then we don't let them

1136
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 2: stay there. They stay for maybe an hour quick just

1137
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,959
Speaker 2: to eat and drink. We'll have another shrip of making

1138
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 2: water and they can eat and drink, eat and drink,

1139
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 2: We pack them, we get them out of there. Because

1140
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: the lower you can get on Everest down to Camp

1141
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 2: three in Camp two by like lunchtime is the best way,

1142
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: risk management wise to do the mountain. And we've been

1143
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 2: watching these teams and these groups that just don't get it,

1144
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 2: and they're going up for too long. Twelve fourteen, eighteen

1145
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: hours are going up and then another six to ten

1146
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 2: hours down. It's too long. And that those kinds of

1147
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 2: ethics is what myself and many other guides are trying

1148
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: to coach these other groups and teams to say that

1149
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: that's not acceptable. Yeah, like that's how you get killed.

1150
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 2: Super risky. Yeah, So you know, and over time, the

1151
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: teams that are doing it the right way, in my opinion,

1152
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 2: are the ones that are successful, safe and not having

1153
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: any problems. But once you get past that, those times

1154
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 2: it's just bad things have been happening. And most of

1155
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: the deaths that have occurred on Everest it's been because

1156
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 2: people don't abide by that.

1157
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: How do you how do you have people train for

1158
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: Everest like physical training?

1159
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's one of my favorite favorite sayings is trained

1160
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 2: mounains of mountains, because what else is better than doing

1161
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 2: the real thing? And on top of that, it's creating

1162
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 2: those simulations. And so you know, someone like Mike who

1163
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 2: trained with me for two years, he moved to Colorado.

1164
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 2: We trained on mountains there, but then we went to

1165
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 2: like four or five different countries and did some bigger

1166
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 2: mountains with some sort of simulations of Everest where it's

1167
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 2: you know, on the summ at night, we leave at

1168
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 2: eight or nine pm and you climb through the night,

1169
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 2: so you can sum it at four or five am

1170
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 2: and the sunrise and then you're back down. And so

1171
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 2: I would create a lot of Everest simulations where even

1172
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 2: if it was a smaller mountain like Mount Rainier. Hey, Mike,

1173
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 2: we're going to start at ten pm on Vernier and

1174
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 2: climb through the night from the parking lot and do

1175
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 2: a big day so we can sum it at sunrise

1176
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 2: and come back down and so you can feel how

1177
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 2: hard that is. And I think those simulations are the

1178
00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: best for anybody trying to do. Ever.

1179
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably his fitness is not improving all that much

1180
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: that day, but what is happening is that his mind

1181
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: is going, Okay, this is what it's going to be.

1182
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 2: Like I've been here before, cold and dark, I'm fumbling

1183
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: with my mittens. I've got to figure out where my

1184
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 2: snacks are. I got to figure out how to make

1185
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: sure my light doesn't go out. So it's all the

1186
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: real world things. I mean, even tomorrow going to Mount

1187
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 2: Whitney with some people that want to get ready Foreverest

1188
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 2: at some point. Yeah, we're going to start at ten

1189
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: pm and go through the night and see how they

1190
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,479
Speaker 2: see how tough they are, and that's a good way

1191
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 2: to be Ever's ready.

1192
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: What's the ideal build for mountaineers, Skinny.

1193
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: I think, well, yeah, I mean a good example is me.

1194
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 2: Like when I was in college, I played basketball at

1195
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 2: Velpros University. I played for Scott Drew. Now who was

1196
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 2: the coach of Baylor. We still stay in touch. And

1197
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 2: I was about, well, I'm about six two sixty three.

1198
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 2: I'm about the same height as Steph Curry actually, but

1199
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: I weighed like two twenty five two thirty and college

1200
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 2: just pushing more heavier weight, and I still had the

1201
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: cardio to play basketball, but you just have to be bigger,

1202
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 2: a little bit bigger and stronger. Now way about one

1203
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: eighty and I found that not having that extra forty

1204
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: to forty five pounds on my frame really benefits me

1205
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: on the mountains. I can move much more efficiently. Cardio

1206
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: strength and just endurance is there. So so yeah, a

1207
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: prototypic person, they don't need to be so skinny and frail.

1208
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 2: But if you don't have the extra, you know, sometimes

1209
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 2: you get these guys that are like kind of jacked

1210
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: and they kill Theminjarro and they get beach body and

1211
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 2: they get pretty worked. Yeah, you know, and they look

1212
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 2: at me and they're like, what the heck. You know,

1213
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: I've had some guys on kill manjar the last few

1214
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 2: years that they all summitted, but they were like, you know,

1215
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: in their twenties and early thirties and young, and what's

1216
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 2: going on why is doctor John so strong. I'm the

1217
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 2: one that's like at the gym body and I'm tough,

1218
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 2: you know. But but yeah, I found you can't have

1219
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: that to have good amountain cardios.

1220
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: Even if it's muscle, you're still having to carry it. Yeah,

1221
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: you just need it enough to make it up. And

1222
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: that's not going to be as much as people might think.

1223
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we still do is a lot of functional training,

1224
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 2: and I have a couple of coaches that do work

1225
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: with like clients of mine that want to train remotely

1226
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 2: and based on where they live for example. But we

1227
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 2: do try to up the cardio and the mountain experiences

1228
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 2: because I think that's probably weighted, in my opinion, ninety

1229
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 2: percent of the importance versus the gym. I do a

1230
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 2: lot more yoga than actual weightlifting. Oh really, Yeah, to

1231
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 2: stay stretched and stay strong with some of the poses.

1232
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 2: And I'll do some functional training in the gym, but

1233
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 2: sometimes the gym is few and far between because the

1234
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 2: outdoors is my gym. You know. There you go.

1235
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: So how do you approach eating on these big expeditions.

1236
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 2: I do a lot of packing my own snacks. If

1237
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 2: I want certain snacks that you can't get what's your

1238
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 2: go to? Well, it depends, Like Paul, we eat a

1239
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 2: lot of snickers, but awesome, But I mean I like

1240
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 2: to try to eat eat healthy so or even just

1241
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 2: like snacks that have a lot of good vitamins, minerals,

1242
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 2: certain ingredients, superfoods, things like that, like pro bars I love.

1243
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you eat the green one, the super food Yeah,

1244
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: the superfood one is tasty.

1245
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one's pretty nice. I learned a lot about

1246
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 2: other sort of alternative type snacks and foods from Mike

1247
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 2: actually because he was trying to, you know, eliminate sugar,

1248
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 2: and sugar can be a problem, right, because some of

1249
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 2: these these snacks are so sugar and it's like, well, yeah,

1250
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 2: just a certain degree when you're out there, it's okay

1251
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: because you're burning it all, but it also can make

1252
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 2: your heart rate skyrocket. And also just like you know,

1253
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: you got to get good protein as well. So he

1254
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 2: was ordering a lot of different kind of organic type

1255
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: bars or raw bars, like these brownie bars are good.

1256
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 2: The brand name was. And then we had these mirror

1257
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: energies they were called yeah, yeah, Mirror Energy, which were

1258
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 2: like less sugar in them, it's like all natural ingredients.

1259
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: But then actually The other one that I really gravitate towards,

1260
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 2: especially on US trips, is just real fruits and vegetables,

1261
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 2: so like cuties and apples and bananas. I mean, that's

1262
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 2: what I grabbed the store that I'm gonna take tomorrow

1263
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 2: because I just want to eat real food. My trail

1264
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 2: name was Avocado, so I would carry alvocados and just

1265
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: cut them up and eat them straight on the trail,

1266
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 2: you know, two or three a day. Sometimes good oil

1267
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 2: is good fats, that kind of thing.

1268
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're going to take a break and then

1269
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: John is going to tell us about the best hikes

1270
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: and climbs that anyone can do. Peaks in Colorado, the

1271
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: average person could climb that. You like, what do you recommend?

1272
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 2: I like going down to like Buna Vista and the

1273
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 2: Cleegiate Peaks are there, and you've got hot springs and

1274
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 2: the trails are easy to access, and then they're asspen

1275
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 2: I mean, I obviously the peaks and Asthma are more

1276
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 2: rugged like the Maroon Bells and Capital, but I end

1277
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 2: up on the Maroon Bells and Capital and Castle Peak.

1278
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 2: Every year I generally lead a hut trip over by

1279
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 2: Castle Peak every winter because we love to ski down.

1280
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 2: We actually ski down it this year, So yeah, I

1281
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 2: just love the They're so beautiful. And then for me,

1282
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 2: out of my backyard of vale As, you have the

1283
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 2: Gore Mountains and Gore Range and they're all thirteen ers.

1284
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 2: So because they're so they're not fourteen ers at all,

1285
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: they're more rugged. You don't see people. You know, you

1286
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 2: can go to a trail head on a Saturday and

1287
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: it's empty, and so I like to get out on

1288
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 2: places that you won't see anybody. It makes it more fun.

1289
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: Even I like that. What's your go to pieces of

1290
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 2: gear from a trail runner perspective? I like things that

1291
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: are fast and light, So I mean I have a

1292
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: few different sort of runners type hoodies that are like

1293
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 2: more lightweight windbreaker type things. And then I'm on the

1294
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 2: Hmalai Athlete team now, so like I love the sun

1295
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 2: hoodies and they're accelerator jackets are great. We give those

1296
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: to all of our clients and trips. Yeah, so we

1297
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 2: hook people up with some of the gear. I'm not

1298
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 2: a huge gearhead though, Like I'll have like shirts that

1299
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 2: I've had forever and I'll wear them still that kind

1300
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 2: of thing. People are like, do you have a hole

1301
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: in that, like get a new shirt, and I'm like, well,

1302
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: I like it, you know.

1303
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's good to not get too Yeah. Yeah,

1304
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: I have friends that I think they enjoy the process

1305
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: of looking for and buying gear more than they do

1306
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: actually going out.

1307
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 2: In the wilderness. Yeah. Yeah, I always chuckle at that

1308
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 2: going back functional for sure, over like looks. Sometimes my

1309
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 2: color schemes aren't great, but although with Hamali my gear

1310
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 2: gets better, for sure. Yeah, I like it.

1311
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: With sort of everything you've learned from the mountains, what's

1312
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 1: the takeaway for the average person, Like, how do they

1313
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: use this in their own life?

1314
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 2: If they're like.

1315
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm never going to climb a mountain, dude, Yeah, what

1316
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: can I do? And what can I learn from it?

1317
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you have to accept an embrace

1318
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 2: being uncomfortable on some level in order to grow. I

1319
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: can stamp that seal of approval. Yeah, And I mean

1320
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 2: that's that's how I've lived my life now and it's

1321
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 2: changed my life for the better no matter what. And

1322
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: then when it comes to doing projects in the outdoors

1323
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 2: or signing up for a trip or going out with

1324
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 2: your friends, is like you should just say yes, Like

1325
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 2: if if someone asks you to do something crazy and audacious,

1326
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 2: you should always say yes, and if you do, like

1327
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 2: what possibly could go wrong? Something will happen. Yeah. Yeah.

1328
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: The guy I did the Heyduke with he would always

1329
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 1: just say something will happen.

1330
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 2: Like that.

1331
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: That's the most accurate sentence I've ever heard of my life.

1332
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 1: Something will happen, Matt. Well, John, it is awesome to

1333
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: have you. Yeah, I appreciate having here. Thanks, thanks for

1334
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: checking out the show, and thanks to John for coming

1335
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 1: into the studio on his way to climb another mountain.

1336
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: As a reminder, we are in your feed twice a week,

1337
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: so please keep an eye out for more. Don't forget

1338
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 1: to hit subscribe so you can get those updates when

1339
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: new episodes come out, and if you want to watch

1340
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: it on the new and free iHeart video app, you

1341
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 1: should definitely do that. We're always open to questions, so

1342
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: please send them to media at twopct dot com or

1343
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: drop them in the comments and we will be sure

1344
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 1: to answer as many of your questions as we can.

1345
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: As always, have fun, don't die, and find your next mountain.