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Speaker 1: Hey, it's counter Hall, the producer for wrongful Conviction. After

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Speaker 1: thirty one years of wrongful incarceration, Dusty Turner was freed

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Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago, and Maggie was able to

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Speaker 1: snag a post release interview. It's hard to believe that

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Speaker 1: Jason covered his story nearly ten years ago. Right here,

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Speaker 1: Dusty Turner.

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Speaker 2: I fell into the hands of a corrupt detective.

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Speaker 3: I was naive enough to believe that I would be

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Speaker 3: able to just present all of my proof of actual innocence,

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Speaker 3: that they would investigate adequately, and so that I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be going to prison because I was a good person.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't do anything wrong.

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Speaker 2: In the back of your mind, you say, well, when

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Speaker 2: we go to a hearing, we go to court, the

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Speaker 2: truth will come out. The prosecution from day one knew

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Speaker 2: I was innocent and let forced testimony go uncorrected from

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Speaker 2: the lower courts all the way up to the United

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Speaker 2: States Supreme Court.

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Speaker 4: You have someone with a badge with ultimate and really,

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Speaker 4: in that moment, unchecked authority.

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Speaker 3: Don't presume that people are guilty when you seem on TV,

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Speaker 3: because it may just be a dirty da that is

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Speaker 3: trying to rise upward.

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Speaker 5: This is wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 6: Hello, this is a pre kay call from an animated

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Speaker 6: Virginia Department of Correction Green Steel Correctional and Work Center.

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Speaker 6: To accept this call, plus Nero refuses. This call is

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Speaker 6: from a correction facility and is subject to monitoring and recording.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flaum. Today, I'm

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Speaker 5: interviewing someone who I have a great deal of respect

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Speaker 5: and admiration for, Dusty Turner.

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Speaker 4: On June nineteenth, the twenty one year old pre men

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Speaker 4: student went missing while vacationing with family friends at Virginia Beach.

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Speaker 7: Twenty one year old Jennifer Evans abducted and murdered while

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Speaker 7: vacationing in Virginia Beach that Sunday night. Jennifer Evans left

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Speaker 7: the now defunct Bayou Nightclub with former Navy Seal training

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Speaker 7: Dustin Turner. Police say the two got in the car

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Speaker 7: with another Seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown. Police found her

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Speaker 7: body nine days later in this wooded area of Newport News.

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Speaker 7: She had been strangled. Both men blamed each other in court.

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Speaker 4: Turner was sentenced to eighty two years and Brown to

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Speaker 4: seventy two years.

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Speaker 7: Both sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison,

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Speaker 7: but the appeals continued through this year. When Brown told

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Speaker 7: police he was solely responsible for Jennifer's death, the confession

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Speaker 7: gave Dustin Turner one last chance to walk free.

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Speaker 4: The Virginia Supreme Court ruled unanimously Friday against Dusty Turner's

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Speaker 4: petition for exoneration. The really means Turner, in another seal training,

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Speaker 4: Billy Joe Brown will spend the rest of their lives

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Speaker 4: in prison for the murder of Jennifer Evans.

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Speaker 5: Dusty, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: The reason you're hearing him sound sort of like he's

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Speaker 5: on another planet is because he is. He's in prison

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Speaker 5: in Virginia where he's been locked up for twenty two

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Speaker 5: years for a crime he had nothing to do with.

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Speaker 5: It's a complicated case and a very tragic situation because

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Speaker 5: Dusty had just completed the training to be a Navy

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Speaker 5: seal when he was arrested for a murder that he

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Speaker 5: didn't commit. And Dusty, let's go back to that. When

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Speaker 5: did you sign up for the Navy? What made you

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Speaker 5: want to serve your country?

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Speaker 6: Well, my family has been in the military, my father,

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Speaker 6: my stepfather, my brother, my older brother, he was in

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Speaker 6: the Navy before me, and I guess I just have

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Speaker 6: always had that appeal towards the military to serve my country.

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Speaker 5: Right, But you took it to another level going through

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Speaker 5: that Navy seal training. That is the most extreme thing

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Speaker 5: you can do.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: Seals and rangers are the most elite troops that we have,

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Speaker 5: and so you decided to subject yourself to basically torture

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Speaker 5: in order to really become a machine.

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Speaker 6: Right, Well, yeah, I guess that's right. You know, initially

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Speaker 6: when I first signed up to the military and the Navy,

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Speaker 6: I wanted to be a diver. I was a scuba

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Speaker 6: diving for about fifteen years, and before I was in

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Speaker 6: the PASTOBA Delayed Entry program, and so before I actually

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Speaker 6: arrived at boot camp, I set my sights on becoming

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Speaker 6: a stew I don't know really what it is that

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Speaker 6: drove me so much, but I just wanted to be

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Speaker 6: in the most elite unit that I could to be

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Speaker 6: in order to fight for my country.

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Speaker 5: And ironically, this all went horribly wrong. And there's a connection,

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Speaker 5: there's a very strong connection to the training because of

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Speaker 5: the fact that it was that faithful night when you

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Speaker 5: were out with your training buddy, when all of this

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Speaker 5: tragedy began. Your training partner was Billy Brown, right, Yes.

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Speaker 6: Billy Brown and I were paired together early on in

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Speaker 6: bus training and throughout the entire field training. We were

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Speaker 6: paired of. And actually the only reason we're paired of

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Speaker 6: at the beginning is because we're the same height, and

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Speaker 6: as fate would have it, that's why we were paired of.

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Speaker 5: And why does that matter.

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Speaker 6: Well, everyone's assigned to a boat crew in bus training,

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Speaker 6: and your boat crew is dependent upon the height, and

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Speaker 6: so we were in the same boat crew. We're the

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Speaker 6: same height. Want to structures that you and you you're together,

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Speaker 6: You're now slim, buddy. And that was early in training.

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Speaker 5: And the issue was Billy was a very volatile character. Right.

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Speaker 5: There's questions that have been raised as to whether he

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Speaker 5: should have ever been admitted into the Navy in the

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Speaker 5: first place when he had a history of well, let's

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Speaker 5: just say, erratic behavior that would be concerning you would

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Speaker 5: think before allowing him into serve in that capacity. Can

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Speaker 5: you talk a little bit about that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So I didn't know about his pass until after

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Speaker 6: the trial. He did have a violent history. Apparently he

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Speaker 6: had assulted at least one femail before he came to

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Speaker 6: the military. He was discharged out of the Coastguard before

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Speaker 6: he came into the Navy, and he had a couple

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Speaker 6: other things on his record, which again I was unaware

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Speaker 6: of the prior. You know, some people have said that

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Speaker 6: when he would have gone through the process get his

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Speaker 6: security clearance, that they would have recognized this and then

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Speaker 6: kicked him out of the service. I'm not so sure

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Speaker 6: if that's the case or not, but he certainly had

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Speaker 6: the final pass, and it is surprising, you know, in hindsight,

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Speaker 6: he's very surprising that he was allowed not only in

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Speaker 6: the military, but to come through to the Special Forces.

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Speaker 5: And Dusty so going through the training with him, I mean,

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Speaker 5: you guys are taught to protect each other at all costs,

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Speaker 5: even if it means risking or putting your own life

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Speaker 5: in danger. Is that right?

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Speaker 6: Yes, it is during the training throughout a good majority

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Speaker 6: of it. If we were separated more than six feet,

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Speaker 6: we would be punished for that. You know, I could

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Speaker 6: trust them in the field, so to speak, to shoot

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Speaker 6: over top of my back and you know, a para,

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Speaker 6: so to speak. So there was a great deal of

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Speaker 6: a trust in a binding force, I guess to come

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Speaker 6: with the training.

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Speaker 5: Right, you literally had to trust each other with your

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Speaker 5: lives in a very, very, in a very real way.

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Speaker 5: I'm bringing that up because it has a bearing on

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Speaker 5: the events, the tragic events that happened on June nineteenth,

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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five in Virginia Beach. And I don't think

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Speaker 5: anybody who hasn't been in your shoes can judge how

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Speaker 5: you acted on that particular night. It's a very unique

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Speaker 5: case and a very unique set of circumstances. Let's talk

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Speaker 5: about that. Because you guys went out to a bar

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Speaker 5: that night. The evening started innocently enough, but Billy had

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Speaker 5: a drinking problem from what I've read, and apparently he

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Speaker 5: got pretty blitzed. Is that right.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, he'd been drinking that day from early on and

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Speaker 6: it just continued into the evening until we were at

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Speaker 6: the club at nine, and he was absolutely.

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Speaker 5: So walk us through what happened, Dusty, because this is

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Speaker 5: really the moment, right when your life was turned upside down.

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Speaker 5: How did this unravel from the time you were in

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Speaker 5: the club to when you ended up in the car,

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Speaker 5: and then ultimately what happened after.

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Speaker 6: That, Well, you know, It started off as kind of

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Speaker 6: a normal, normal evening. I've been to that club a

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Speaker 6: few times. I was relatively new to the area in

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Speaker 6: Virginia Beach, not only been there maybe maybe three weeks,

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Speaker 6: and so initially three of us guys were going to

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Speaker 6: go out and to the club at nine one. The

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Speaker 6: guy ended up up going, I don't know, going off

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Speaker 6: with his girlfriend or something. So Billy and I went

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Speaker 6: to the club. It was again, it was kind of

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Speaker 6: a normal here. Billy is drunk again. I kind of

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Speaker 6: separated myself at the club from him, and I had

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Speaker 6: met a very nice young lady named Jennifer Evans. We

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Speaker 6: kind of hit it off. We were having a good

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Speaker 6: time for sharing with each other. Fellow was what we

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Speaker 6: were into.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 6: She was a college student down in Georgia, and I

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Speaker 6: generally didn't talk very openly about my field experience, but

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Speaker 6: with her I did, and I opened up and I

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Speaker 6: told her what I was doing there the beach. Now,

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Speaker 6: mind you that I was in the club with a

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Speaker 6: underage and I had a fake ID that I got

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Speaker 6: in there.

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Speaker 5: You were twenty at the time, man, That was yeah,

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Speaker 5: I was.

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Speaker 6: Twenty years old. Jennifer was twenty one. And so again

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Speaker 6: we you know, Jenffer and I we hit it off.

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Speaker 6: We had to separate ourselves from from Billy. I had

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Speaker 6: met her girlfriend, her two friends that she came there with,

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Speaker 6: We had been out on the dance floor, and you know,

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Speaker 6: again it was very very normal type of evening, and well,

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Speaker 6: the last thing I was imagined was something trastic happening

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Speaker 6: that night, So it put it in the night. Her

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Speaker 6: girlfriend had left briefly they were going to go get

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Speaker 6: some coffee and everyone to say with me in the club.

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Speaker 6: So we actually had an idea of trying to go

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Speaker 6: down to the beach, taking our shoes off and walking

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Speaker 6: down on the beach. But as the night progressed and

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Speaker 6: her girlfriends were going to come pick her back up

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Speaker 6: at two o'clock in the morning, which is the time

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Speaker 6: of this club quote, Jennifer and I realized we didn't

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Speaker 6: know the time to go down to the beach and

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Speaker 6: then make it back to meet her girlfriends, So we

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Speaker 6: stayed in the club, and in fact we went out

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Speaker 6: to the lobby where it was more quiet, and we

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Speaker 6: just got out there and had a conversation. Just previous

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Speaker 6: to this, I had gotten Billy a ride home with

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Speaker 6: this ex girlfriend who happened to be in the club

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Speaker 6: that night, Christians Bishops, and reluctantly she did agree to

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Speaker 6: they come home. She was reluctant, hesitant because she knows

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Speaker 6: the type of character that he is and she really

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Speaker 6: didn't want to deal with him, especially because he was

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Speaker 6: so drunk, which I understood, but you know, I was

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Speaker 6: happy that she was willing to take him home, so

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Speaker 6: I was confident that I wouldn't even see him for

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Speaker 6: the rest of the night. And I was with Jennifer,

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Speaker 6: and it was closing upon two o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 6: We were out in the lobby and we decided to

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Speaker 6: go out into the parking lot and wait for her

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Speaker 6: girlfriend and sit in my car and listened to music.

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Speaker 6: And so within about ten minutes, still two again, we

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Speaker 6: went out to my car and we were sitting there

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Speaker 6: listening to music and looking for her girlfriend to show

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Speaker 6: up at any minute. Instead, what we saw coming down

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Speaker 6: the hill was Billy Brown, and he was heading towards

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Speaker 6: the parkpot. You know, I certainly wasn't expecting him. Christian

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Speaker 6: was supposed to take him home. I knew he was

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Speaker 6: drunk and belligerent, but when he was approaching the vehicle.

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Speaker 6: I told Jennifer, I said, look, you know, this is

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Speaker 6: the guy I come here with. You know, he's drunk.

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Speaker 6: Just just don't pay no attention to him. I've seen

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Speaker 6: him in the past, especially when we were in Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 6: I've seen him, witness him become kind of violent towards women.

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Speaker 6: I didn't think that he would become violent towards Jenner Firm,

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Speaker 6: but I did assume he was at least going to

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Speaker 6: be obnoxious and somewhat belligerent. So when he got into.

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Speaker 5: The car, wait, hold up there for a second, Dusty,

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Speaker 5: what kind of car was it?

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Speaker 6: So I had a small geostorm.

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Speaker 5: So that's a small car, right, yeah, it is a

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Speaker 5: very small car. And you're big guys, both of you

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Speaker 5: guys are.

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Speaker 6: He was bigger than I. We were both six foot

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Speaker 6: two and a half, I guess, and he outweighed me

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Speaker 6: by maybe fifteen to twenty pounds, So he was I

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Speaker 6: think he was about two hundred and thirty somewhere aund

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Speaker 6: indus or thirty pounds. But he approaches the passer's side

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Speaker 6: of the car and he opens the door and he

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Speaker 6: kind of pushes the car seat forward where Jennifer was sitting,

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Speaker 6: he pushes a seat forward a little roughly, and he

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Speaker 6: gets in the car in the back seats right behind her,

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Speaker 6: and of course his big frame compared with the back

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Speaker 6: in this once you did a very small comb Those

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Speaker 6: knees are against the back of her seat. And as

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Speaker 6: soon as he sits down, I turned to him and

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Speaker 6: I say, Billy, what what's going on? Was was Christian

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Speaker 6: not thinking you home? And he immediately goes into a

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Speaker 6: tirade about oh, screwing that f bet girl you think

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Speaker 6: you know, blah blah, he's a nothing.

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Speaker 5: But of this event, this is the last thing you

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Speaker 5: want to see, right, You're having a nice moment with

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Speaker 5: a girl, you have a nice connection with her. The

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Speaker 5: last thing you want to see, last thing anybody would

256
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Speaker 5: want to see is a drunk, belligerent, violent anybody. You

257
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Speaker 5: don't want to see anybody at that point. You just

258
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Speaker 5: want to be in your little bubble with her, listen

259
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Speaker 5: to music. Everything's good. I mean, you never could have

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Speaker 5: predicted how bad it was going to get, but already

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Speaker 5: it's bad.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So this is obviously, this is the crux of

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Speaker 6: the situation. Jennifer and I were having the time, you know,

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Speaker 6: we were not romantically involved at this time. Earlier I

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Speaker 6: had given her a husband when I thought that she

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Speaker 6: was gonna leave with her girlfriends, and that's the only

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Speaker 6: time we had had a come physical contact. I said,

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Speaker 6: said Jeniffer, she's a very decent young lady. You know,

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Speaker 6: she was a good girl, was a great teacher in

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Speaker 6: front of her who was going to college. And it's

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Speaker 6: a very nice young lady. And so we're having a

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Speaker 6: great conversation and you said, here comes this drunk buddy

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Speaker 6: of mine down to the calling.

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Speaker 5: So he's now in the back seat and is acting

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Speaker 5: as you would have probably predicted that he would have

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Speaker 5: act because of what you know about his character and

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Speaker 5: his current state of mind. But then it gets much worse.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, So after asking him while Christian was taking

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Speaker 6: him home, and you know, he said what he said

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Speaker 6: about her, and he turned his attention to Jennifer, and

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Speaker 6: he made some very rude comment, if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 6: he said something about asking her if she was a virgin,

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Speaker 6: something like that, certainly inappropriate. And I immediately said, look, Billy,

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Speaker 6: why don't you get out and go find Christians that

285
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Speaker 6: she was going to take me home, And so he

286
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Speaker 6: was not trying to hear that at all. He's like

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Speaker 6: half that bitch. So again he kind of turns his

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Speaker 6: benches to Jenner from my eyes, who within two or

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Speaker 6: three or four minutes before her girlfriends were coming to

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Speaker 6: pick her up right there where we're at in the

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Speaker 6: parking lot. They're supposed to arrive there, they told used

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Speaker 6: to be there at to the clock, and it has

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Speaker 6: to be within a couple of minutes before too. And

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Speaker 6: of course I didn't know at that point too what

295
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Speaker 6: it transpired in the gloves between him and Christian that

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Speaker 6: made him additionally belligerent. So it turns his SENSI back

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Speaker 6: to Cennifer, and he said something about her hair. He

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00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 6: reached up with his right hand. I don't know if

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Speaker 6: he pushed her her shoulder or her hair. But at

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Speaker 6: that point Jennifer had just throughout this time, the brief

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Speaker 6: couple of minutes she had not set a did not

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Speaker 6: open her mouth to him or refined to him, And

303
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Speaker 6: so when he touched her hair or her shoulder, she

304
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Speaker 6: smacked his hand from behind, you know, swatted his hands,

305
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Speaker 6: and that's when he snapped. So I wasn't looking directly

306
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Speaker 6: at him when he snapped, but with all his might.

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Speaker 6: He violently thrust his arms around her, of her body,

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Speaker 6: her neck area, and with so much force that the

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Speaker 6: whole car literally shaped right.

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Speaker 5: And I'm thinking about it, d'sti. He had his feet,

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Speaker 5: as you said, his knees were up against the seat.

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Speaker 5: And here's a big, strong, two thirty pound guy who's

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Speaker 5: trained to kill with his with his hands, and he's

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Speaker 5: got total leverage right because he's got the knees. I mean,

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Speaker 5: you know, it would have been nothing for him to

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Speaker 5: do this considering all of these well, you know, I

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Speaker 5: don't you.

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Speaker 6: Know, I don't know about saying it would have been nothing.

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Speaker 6: I really don't know. I know that if seemingly it

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Speaker 6: was coming for him, the strike that he did upon

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Speaker 6: this innocent young woman was so violent that when I

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Speaker 6: turned and started screaming at him to just let her go,

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Speaker 6: and he's screaming at me just ep and drive, just

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Speaker 6: up and drive first, I started crying and trying to

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Speaker 6: pull his arms off of her and screaming at him.

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Speaker 6: This entire brief time when this happened, Jennifer never once

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Speaker 6: reached up to defend herself. It was that quick that

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Speaker 6: she was out, and so I immediately grabbing his arms,

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Speaker 6: and I'm screaming at him, just let her go, let

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Speaker 6: her go, And he's screaming at me, just fucking drive,

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Speaker 6: just up and drive, you know. Only after a couple

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Speaker 6: of seconds at pulling in his arms didn't work, so

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Speaker 6: I reached under his fingers literally and pried his arms,

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Speaker 6: using one hand on his elbow and the other under

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Speaker 6: his fingertips, and pride his arms up off of her.

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Speaker 6: At this point, when I dig at his arms off her,

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Speaker 6: he took back and the seat and she is now

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Speaker 6: did her head is built towards the passenger side window,

339
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Speaker 6: her arms on the other side. She had delided herself.

340
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Speaker 6: And I'm just complete shocked and just utter confusion and disbelieve.

341
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Speaker 6: And I'm still he is yelling at him. He just

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00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 6: has been drawn.

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Speaker 5: Drawn, Dusty. I'm just thinking that I'm just the physics

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Speaker 5: of it. I mean, it would have been almost impossible

345
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,600
Speaker 5: for anyone, even a strong guy like yourself, to pull

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Speaker 5: somebody off from the side when he's in a position

347
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Speaker 5: like he was in, especially when it happened as quickly

348
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Speaker 5: as it did. I mean, you really had no chance

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Speaker 5: to save this poor girl. And I mean I obviously

350
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 5: you did what you could, but she had no chance.

351
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Speaker 5: And at this point, were you concerned that he was

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Speaker 5: going to try to kill you too?

353
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Speaker 6: No, it certainly wasn't an they didn't go through my

354
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Speaker 6: head only thought. I'm not thinking anyone sitting in my

355
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Speaker 6: seat would have had the same reaction. You know, one

356
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,879
Speaker 6: minute having a good time with a young lady, and

357
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Speaker 6: the next minute, this guy, this violent predator, cleatly just

358
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 6: alters history. I don't know it's spoke stream, but I

359
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 6: mean he is. The one act that he does, it

360
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Speaker 6: changes the lives of so many people.

361
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Speaker 5: Sure, one act.

362
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Speaker 6: And he's drunk, and he's and you know, I'd like

363
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Speaker 6: to think that he really didn't know what the heck

364
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Speaker 6: he's doing. He has his past, and he has lent

365
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 6: past of a violence towards women. But he's been increasingly

366
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 6: becoming an alcoholic over the last several weeks or months,

367
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Speaker 6: in which he's drinking every single night. It's just a bad,

368
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 6: bad brude. Not to mention the fact that he was

369
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,680
Speaker 6: thinking sterile. He's leading up to this as will.

370
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Speaker 5: Obviously, he destroyed her and get killed her, and he

371
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 5: ruined the lives of everyone who cared about her, her family,

372
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 5: et cetera. He ruined your life, he ruined his own life,

373
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Speaker 5: He ruined the lives of your families, right, your family,

374
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Speaker 5: all military heroes and so yeah, in one short violence,

375
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Speaker 5: from what it sounds like last only seconds, not even minutes,

376
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Speaker 5: he managed to destroy so many people. And then that's

377
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 5: where the story gets into a whole different phase. Right,

378
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 5: and again, I can't walk in your shoes. No one

379
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 5: can walk in your shoes with all the factors that

380
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 5: were going on, Dusty, with the fact that you had

381
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 5: been now trained, practically indoctrinated into this idea that you

382
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 5: must protect this guy and he's going to protect you.

383
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 5: You know, that's just in the mix. I just want

384
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 5: to put that in there. But besides that, you're in

385
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 5: a state I can imagine of complete shock and panic,

386
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Speaker 5: and who could imagine this terrible turn of events, as

387
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 5: you said, And what a dramatic turn when it goes

388
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 5: from what sounds like a beautiful night, a nice connection

389
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 5: to this absolute horror that you're you've just witnessed as

390
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 5: close and personal as you can imagine with somebody you

391
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 5: were supposed to trust and protect and someone else that

392
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 5: you would have liked to protect, but you couldn't. He's

393
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 5: screaming at you to drive what happened?

394
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Speaker 6: Yeah, And this is like you said, this, this is

395
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 6: why you're in prison is because of what you've done afterwards.

396
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 6: And if people can't understand your reaction afterwards, the normal

397
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 6: person would have jumped out of the vehicle and ran

398
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 6: to find the phone or the police somewhere, or to

399
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 6: tell somebody something just terrible has happened. And that might

400
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 6: be the case for most people. I don't know, but

401
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 6: I think that's the way I reacted. It would have

402
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 6: been different. Even if my own brother would have been

403
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 6: in Billy Brown's place, I think I would have reacted differently.

404
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 6: This is like you said, to the way I was

405
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 6: conditions and indoctrinated at twenty years old, I reacted how

406
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 6: I reacted. I'm not a criminal. I've never been violent,

407
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 6: and I certainly have never been violent towards the women,

408
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 6: and I'm not criminally minded. And so why is is

409
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 6: did a twenty year old trust in this position which

410
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 6: I should never have been in to begin with, and

411
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 6: had to make these kinds of decisions. And so when

412
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 6: I realized that in the first day and Billy Brown

413
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 6: screaming them and I really didn't know what to do.

414
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 6: I was in a place in this area, Like I said,

415
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 6: I had only been in Virginia Beach for a couple

416
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 6: of weeks and three weeks of five. So I just

417
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 6: put the car to drive and I took off driving,

418
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 6: and I didn't know where I was going. I didn't

419
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 6: even know how to barely get out of the Virginia

420
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 6: Beach area until I ended up in fact Phillip Brown.

421
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 6: And when I started driving, he said, I'll turn left here,

422
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 6: turn right there, and I ended up on sixty four,

423
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 6: and on sixty four, I'm familiar with that highway, and

424
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 6: so I just started traveling west on sixty four, and

425
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 6: I didn't know where I was going, and I just

426
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 6: kept driving and driving until I started I seen a

427
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 6: lot of wooded area, and so I pulled off on

428
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 6: an exit. Again, I have no idea where I'm at,

429
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 6: and I'm just driving. I pull off into another area

430
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 6: which seemed more wooded until I get to a more

431
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 6: secluded area which is not that far from the interstate,

432
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 6: and both of us myself can bally get up the car.

433
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 6: I grabbed Nimfer's risks, he grabbed her legs, and we

434
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 6: carried her perhaps thirty yards into the wood. And again

435
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 6: I was in complete chaotic, shocking, and I didn't know

436
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 6: what I was doing. I didn't know what else to do.

437
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 6: And yeah, I understand that people people look at that

438
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 6: moment there and say, you know that, why would you

439
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 6: do that? Why you know I would have done that?

440
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 6: But others have not been in my shoes. They don't understand,

441
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 6: and perhaps I don't even understand why I reacted that

442
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 6: with other than to say that this is kind of

443
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 6: how I was trained to react. They didn't say, in

444
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 6: a situation which you know there's been a crime and

445
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 6: it's a civilian who's been hurt, tect your swim body.

446
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 6: Oh of course I didn't say that. However, now from

447
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 6: what I understands, when you go through still training today,

448
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 6: they do have classes in training that says, look, if

449
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 6: this type of scenario happens, you need to consider what

450
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 6: you know, where you're at, what you're doing, and so forth,

451
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 6: and do not protect your swim body if he has

452
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 6: done something so horrendous, so wrong. And that's the place

453
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 6: today because of this city.

454
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 5: But Dusty, I want to bring up an important point.

455
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 5: What is important from a legal perspective to remember is

456
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 5: that in Virginia, hiding a body after a murder is

457
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 5: a misdemeanor punishable by up to twelve months in jail.

458
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 5: And that's not what you got convicted of. That's not

459
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: what they wanted you for. And we're going to get

460
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 5: to that in a minute. But that's a very important

461
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 5: thing to remember. In certain states that's not the case.

462
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 5: There's some states where it's treated very differently. In some

463
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 5: states it's treated the same as murder, just you know,

464
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 5: hiding the body after the fact. But that's the only

465
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 5: thing that you were guilty of. And that's one of

466
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 5: the reasons why I've dived into your case and why

467
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 5: I'm doing everything I can to help you try to

468
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 5: find justice, because it's obviously a terrible miscarriage of justice,

469
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 5: the fact that you're serving time for murder when what

470
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 5: you did was wrong, but it's not murder. So now

471
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 5: going forward, you go back to the base and this

472
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 5: is big news, right the town is up in arms.

473
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 5: Everyone's wondering what happened to this girl, and this must

474
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 5: have been driving you crazy, right.

475
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 6: Well, I wasn't really aware at the time of the

476
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 6: news in the media, but what was driving me crazy,

477
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 6: is just having witnesses and knowing about it and attempting

478
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 6: to remain silent about it. It was, Uh. It put

479
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 6: me in a state of almost like a zombie like

480
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 6: state throughout the next week in which I held this

481
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 6: speakert and witness bill. They do this terrible, terrible beat

482
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 6: and I had it within and and I couldn't tell anybody,

483
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 6: and so it was it was definitely eating me up

484
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 6: on the inside. So of course the coming week now

485
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 6: we were up north something from a place called a

486
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 6: support ap doing addigital training for men. I wasn't during

487
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 6: the time. I wasn't aware of the news in the

488
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 6: media down in Virginia Beach. But it was certainly eating

489
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 6: you up on the inside.

490
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 5: So your conscience got the best of you, and you know,

491
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 5: you did the right thing after having done the wrong

492
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 5: thing and went to the authorities, right, And that's where

493
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 5: things get really dicey from everything I've read, where they

494
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 5: didn't behave in a straightforward manner when it comes to

495
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 5: how they treated you right.

496
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, you know, I did it tell

497
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 6: the Texas you know, everything that they had asked me.

498
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 6: You know, at first I did not denied it. I

499
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 6: denied everything, but it came to a point, especially after

500
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 6: they had presented me with the fact that Jennifer's family

501
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 6: is an absolute go into a traumatic and brieving experience

502
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 6: and they just want to know how and they want

503
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 6: to know where their daughter is, et cetera. And it

504
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 6: was through this line of the Enquirer questioning that you know,

505
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 6: I asked to see my very officer, and my spirit

506
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 6: offic came in and we were alone. I told him

507
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 6: everything that happened, and so he said that he was

508
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 6: on an attempt to call the Dad officer and to

509
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 6: see what we could do as far as legally or

510
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 6: something like that. But nonetheless, fifteen minutes later when the

511
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 6: texts come in, I told them everything that they had asked,

512
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 6: and they even asked me if I was helping them

513
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 6: first draw maps to where Jennifer's Bobby was, which I did,

514
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 6: I attempted to do, and then they asked me if

515
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 6: I would accompany them they Jennifer Scotty, so which I

516
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 6: did also, and I still my spreite officer in one

517
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 6: of the expecutives. We went to the location and we

518
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 6: separated the search through the woods. Finally I did find

519
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 6: her body. At that point I went back to the base.

520
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 6: They had presented Billy Brown with the map that I

521
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 6: had drawn. He said, look, your buddy completely just rolled

522
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 6: on you. He told us everything, you're going down. You're

523
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 6: probably gonna get the death penalty whatever else. And so

524
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 6: at that point that he began with these stories about

525
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 6: now I had something to do with it. He later

526
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 6: said that if he was going down, he's gonna take

527
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 6: me with and so he made up a story saying

528
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 6: that we're both gone.

529
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, he was obviously furious because he believed

530
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 5: that you, who was supposed to be his protector, had

531
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 5: betrayed him. He's gonna do what he can to bring

532
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 5: you down with him, because, in his twisted way of thinking,

533
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 5: you should have covered up this murder and protected him,

534
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 5: and so you did what you thought was right. I'll

535
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 5: be it after the fact and the consequences started to

536
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 5: become very real now from what I've read, Dustie, the

537
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 5: detectives made certain promises to you, right that if you

538
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 5: help them, you were going to be kind of okay.

539
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 6: Right, yeah, they think you know. They did say that

540
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 6: after telling my sperit officer what had happened, and he

541
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 6: spoke to the textives as well, and together they said, look,

542
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 6: just answer the question. It'll be all right. And I said,

543
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 6: are you sure you know? And I kind of took

544
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 6: it as a direct order from my spirit officer. I said,

545
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 6: very sure, that's what I should do, and he said, yes,

546
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 6: to answer the questions, be all right. I said, okay.

547
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 6: You know, they didn't come to me and say anything like, well,

548
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 6: for your testimony, will allow some kind of agreement or

549
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 6: something like that.

550
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 5: Now.

551
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 6: They never actually came to me and said that. Of course,

552
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 6: being very igorant of the criminal justice, you know, I

553
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 6: didn't know that I would even need a lawyer or

554
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 6: the that I should do remain time about certain things

555
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 6: or what have you. But you know, I willingly asked

556
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 6: them to search my vehicle. Mean, I answered the questions truthfully,

557
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 6: And I thought that maybe what this would lead to

558
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 6: was at some point me on a witness fan explaining

559
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 6: that Billy Brown is being charged with her murder, that

560
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 6: I would be explaining exactly how things happened. Maybe I

561
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 6: was naive, but I assume that's how things worked. I

562
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 6: certainly didn't assume that they were going to charge me.

563
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 6: After speaking with Billy Brown and him pointing the fingers

564
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 6: much so I certainly didn't think that I was going

565
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 6: to be charged with the murder.

566
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 5: And this is an important point, Dusty, right, because the

567
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 5: police spent forty eight hours examining your car, right, so

568
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 5: they turned that thing upside down, And yet they never

569
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 5: used any of the evidence from the car at trial

570
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 5: because it wasn't going to be favorable to them, And

571
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 5: in fact, by noting the evidence at trial, they didn't

572
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 5: have to turn over to the defense, when in fact,

573
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 5: if they had, it would have been definitely in your

574
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 5: favor because of the fact that everything you were saying

575
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 5: makes true, that the physics of it just don't add

576
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 5: up some of the things that they said. It doesn't

577
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 5: make sense to add insult to injury. And in a

578
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 5: terrible call it a coincidence, the year that you were convicted,

579
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five, was the same year that Virginia abolished parole,

580
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 5: which is shocking to my conscience. In a nation where

581
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 5: we believe in second chances and we believe in redemption,

582
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 5: and we believe in that stuff, the idea that if

583
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 5: you were so misfortunate is to be convicted in Virginia

584
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five or later you are not eligible for parole.

585
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 6: I wouldn't even be able with parole. Meant, I wouldn't aware.

586
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 6: You know that they had just abolished parole in Virginia.

587
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 6: I don't think I would have would have paired at

588
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 6: the time. I wasn't, So I gets concerned about the

589
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 6: sense I was given. I was concerned about the fact

590
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 6: that I was convicted of two charges that I did

591
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 6: not commit. Whether they gave me ten years or one

592
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 6: hundred years, I was convicted of something I didn't commit.

593
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 6: And that's that was the Travis.

594
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 5: It's I can't I can't really imagine how that could

595
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 5: make sense in a society like ours, but it is

596
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 5: in fact a reality, and it's your reality, and it's

597
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 5: why now everyone is working so hard to help you

598
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 5: get clemency or a pardon or a conditional pardon from

599
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 5: the governor because of the fact that that is the

600
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 5: only recourse left. Another thing that's sort of a unique

601
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 5: and to me troubling concept is the idea that you

602
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 5: only have really one appeal of actual innocence in Virginia, right,

603
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 5: And that's something I want to get to Dusty, because

604
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 5: first of all, a crazy thing happened in two thousand

605
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 5: and two, right, which is that Billy he had some

606
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 5: sort of an awakening and decided to come clean and

607
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 5: tell the truth. We're talking two thousand and two, fifteen

608
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 5: years ago, right, And he recanted and admitted that he

609
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 5: was the sole murderer. And I think people are listening

610
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 5: now and going, well, wait a minute, if that happened,

611
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 5: why is Dusty still in prison? Can you explain that scenario?

612
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 6: Yeah? If I can't explain it, yeah, as he's serving

613
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 6: his time and some other prison I guess some guys

614
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 6: had approached him and gotten him to get into Christianity,

615
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 6: and this allowed him to finally release this burden that

616
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 6: he's been holding for all these years and to confess.

617
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 6: And so that happened again in early two thousand and

618
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 6: Here it is, fifteen years later, and I'm still sitting here,

619
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 6: still sitting here after he's complaint, after he finally said, yeah,

620
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 6: everything that Dusty said, that's what happened, and the judge

621
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 6: rule that he's credible in that confession. So there was

622
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 6: no mechanisms more recently of even getting back into court

623
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 6: with such new evidence. But there was a time later

624
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 6: in two thousand and sixty Pound seven until we finally

625
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 6: rid of actual innocence to the appeals court, which ended

626
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 6: with well, the appeals court initially overturned my convictions. They

627
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 6: did convict me of the misdemeanor accessory after the fact

628
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 6: of the felony, which indeed I am blp of and

629
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 6: like you said earlier, that was a maximum sentence of

630
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 6: twelve months in jail. When they made this ruling and

631
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 6: they dropped my charges. This is two thousand and eight,

632
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 6: two thousand and nine. I was expecting me home within

633
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 6: a matter of days or weeks.

634
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 5: This is what makes me insane. And I think anybody

635
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 5: listening is like, wait, wait, wait, So your conviction was vacated, right,

636
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 5: And then that means to a layman who's not intimately

637
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 5: familiar with the law or criminal proceedings, when your conviction

638
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 5: is vacated, you have every reasonablieve you're going to go home.

639
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 4: Right.

640
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 5: They've actually come out and said, okay, we are now

641
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 5: acknowledging there is no physical evidence connecting you to this.

642
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 5: None of this stuff adds up, right, not to the murder.

643
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 5: Like you said, you're guilty of the accessory after the fact,

644
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 5: and now you have the actual killer confessing in court

645
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 5: under oath sounds like a winner. Right, you're going home,

646
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 5: except for then the state decided to put its foot

647
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 5: back on your neck, so to speak. Right, and then

648
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 5: what happened?

649
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, so the toils the vacated my conviction and I

650
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 6: was expect to be home with a matter of day.

651
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 6: The acting Attorney General came forward and said that he

652
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 6: wanted to appeal this decision, and so they appealed it

653
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 6: and went back through the appellate court and then on

654
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 6: into the later into the Supreme Court of Virginia and

655
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 6: under a new series that's one of the judges of

656
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 6: the Pilates Court created. And the thread of actual innocence

657
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 6: is so demanding as they say that the evidence has

658
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 6: to be just as substantial as DNA evidence, which unfortunately

659
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 6: there's no DNA evidence in my case. But so one

660
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 6: of the judges says, well, although he didn't have anything

661
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 6: to do with the murder, and this has been decided

662
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 6: by the judges, he didn't have anything to do with

663
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 6: the murder, and he didn't restrain the victim. This judge says, well,

664
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 6: perhaps a jury could believe that when Dusty walked out

665
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 6: of the bar to the parking lot, to his car,

666
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 6: that a jury could believe that that was an abduction

667
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 6: by deception. And if a jury believed that and then

668
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 6: Jennifer was later killed regardless of power who was killed her,

669
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 6: that I which still be guilty and the jury is

670
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 6: still find me guilty of both the abduction and the murder.

671
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 6: So they created a new theory in my face. There's

672
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 6: just not only is the asonine, but it was never

673
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 6: presented before the jury. And there's no jury in the

674
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 6: world that would believe this idea, especially with all the

675
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 6: additional evidence. So under that because of it, and it's

676
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 6: all the semantics of this word restraint, and that's what

677
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 6: it comes down to. I'm still in prison because of

678
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 6: the semantics of the word restraint. And it's unbelievable. So

679
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 6: they overturn my release and they reinstate my colas and

680
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 6: here it is seven years later and I'm still sitting here.

681
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 5: So they're basically trying to say that they're going back

682
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 5: in time to nineteen ninety five. They're going back in

683
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 5: time the nineteen ninety five and trying to come up

684
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 5: with a theory that could actually read your mind. Right,

685
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 5: They're going back in a time machine and reading your

686
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 5: mind and saying, well, this may have been, could have been,

687
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 5: would have been something that he might have been thinking

688
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 5: of doing. There's no evidence to prove it. How could anybody?

689
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 5: I don't know. It makes me nuts. It's such a

690
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 5: bizarre it's such a bizarre thing for a court or

691
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 5: a judge to say. As far as I'm concerned, I.

692
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 6: Think that the legislators recognized that after my case, and

693
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 6: they said, you know, this rivactional innocence is obviously entirely

694
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 6: too restrictiveness and to open for interpretation or whatever. So

695
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 6: they since I went through this rivactional inscence, now they've

696
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 6: changed the law the wording of the rivactionalness. Instead of

697
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 6: saying could any juror find guilt with this evidence? Now

698
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 6: it's more specific, and it may sound puplicit, but it's

699
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 6: more specific thing. Would a rational juror still find guilt

700
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 6: with this new evidence and the new word in which

701
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 6: I can't go back into the river actionalness because it's

702
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 6: the one shot deal. And Tom left hung out to

703
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 6: drial this on this whole thing.

704
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 5: Well, hopefully not for too long, because you have a

705
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 5: lot of really great people on your side now, and

706
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 5: you have a governor who cares about these issues and

707
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 5: who has shown in actions that he believes in justice,

708
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 5: that he believes in fairness, and that he has the

709
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 5: courage to do something about these things.

710
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 6: From my perspective, he does like a very fair man,

711
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 6: and I do have hope. I do think that he

712
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 6: will look at my case, and I know and I'm

713
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 6: very confident that if he does, if he just looks

714
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 6: at my kids, then he'll realize that I'm not supposed

715
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 6: to be here. I do have that tremendous hope that

716
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 6: he will take action in my case.

717
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 5: Well, Dusty, I can tell you that I think that

718
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 5: there's a lot of reason to have hope in this

719
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 5: current administration that we have there because of the fact

720
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 5: that you do have such a ground swell of support,

721
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 5: and not only that, because of what you've done, the

722
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 5: remarkable record of accomplishment that you've had on the inside.

723
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 5: And I want to talk about that. I know that

724
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 5: you know you're finding hope in a hopeless place, but

725
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 5: I want to paint a picture for the audience of

726
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 5: just how grim it is to be in the situation

727
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 5: you're in, and then also what you've managed to make

728
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 5: out of that experience.

729
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I've got a quote a guy who

730
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 6: knows suffering, and a couple of things have kept me

731
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 6: I don't know, to move forward, and its positive. I

732
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 6: can be one of those the supporters that I do have,

733
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 6: not just my family, but others, you know, total strangers

734
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 6: who have reached out, and it gives me a lot

735
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 6: of hope, and it gives me a lot of strength

736
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 6: to endure this what I'm going through in this environment.

737
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 6: And it is terrible, It's absolutely terrible. But this quote,

738
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 6: it's one of my favorite quotes. It says that everything

739
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 6: be taken from a man, but one thing, the last

740
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 6: of the human freedom, and that is to choose one's

741
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 6: own attitude in any set of circumstances, choose one's own

742
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 6: way as a man named Victor Franklin. And you know,

743
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 6: I guess I've taken on this, this attitude, you know,

744
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 6: that which allowed me to persevere through through bud training

745
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 6: and is still training. I reached for this on a

746
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 6: daily basis. Now I put my feet on the ground

747
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 6: and say I have to I have to continue on today,

748
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 6: and I have to push forward, and I can't allow

749
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 6: this environment to get the best of them. And I

750
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 6: want to transcend in spite of where I'm at. And

751
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 6: so I've looked to try to do things to try

752
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 6: to help out not only the people around me in

753
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 6: my environment for years, and I've helped guys who have

754
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 6: struggled with drug addiction or you know, criminal thinking. And

755
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 6: I've just kind of made it as part of my

756
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 6: own our character to trying to help you guys out

757
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 6: and to move past, to transcend some of these things

758
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 6: in which they've been stuck in. And not only that,

759
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 6: I proposed a dog training program. That's the last institution

760
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 6: that I was at. It was luckily it was to

761
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 6: prove and we had the dogs come in and for

762
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 6: about three years I was able to be a dog trainer.

763
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 6: And I had studied and read up and learned so

764
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 6: much about training dogs and I really enjoyed that.

765
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 5: And how does that training program work? That the dogs are?

766
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 5: They rescue dogs and what happens to them after they're trained?

767
00:41:59,680 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 4: Right?

768
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 6: So these are absolutely rescued dogs. These were abandoned. We

769
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 6: worked with a shelter out of Ashland, Virginia called bark

770
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 6: Baar Community and that's the abandoned the adoption and rescued canines.

771
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 6: A really great organizations, and they would bring us six

772
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 6: dogs at time and we would have them for three months,

773
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 6: and we had a total of twelve dog trainers, two

774
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 6: free stocks, and we would train the dogs. These dogs

775
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 6: that were abandoned and you never know what their history was.

776
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 6: They could send maybe beat them or however that they

777
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 6: were rescued and we were given the tools to help

778
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 6: train these dogs, and then afterward they were adopted and

779
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 6: we had an adoption rate of some ninety something percent

780
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 6: coming out of there, and we trained them in basic

781
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 6: pin obedience and it was a really, really great, really

782
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 6: positive program. And from there I had gotten into me

783
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 6: and another guy, we had been talking about different ideas

784
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 6: concerning the judicial system and we'd come across this idea

785
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 6: of restorative justice. And after we had studied on it

786
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 6: and we've gotten in contact with some restorative justice practitioners,

787
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 6: we decided that with our knowledge of this environment in

788
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 6: the prison and we knew what was lacking in this environment,

789
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 6: we knew some of the things that could help in

790
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 6: the rehabilitations of the fellow inmates, we constructed a restorative

791
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 6: justice program. We're still in the process of kind of

792
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 6: flushing out some of the more detailed aspects of the curriculum.

793
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 6: But this is what my passion has been into for

794
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 6: the past few years, and I've really been concentrating my

795
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 6: efforts into this program. And we have people restored, just

796
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 6: practitioners from universities and other organizations to really really like

797
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 6: what we have created and they want to help them

798
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 6: out a little bit.

799
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's you know what it sounds like

800
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 5: to me. It sounds like you're doing more good, like

801
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 5: I said, from this hopeless place than most people on

802
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 5: the outside can never even dream of doing. And that's

803
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 5: you know, that's to your credit, obviously, and it's another

804
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 5: reason why it makes sense for you to be granted

805
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 5: your freedom after all these years. And if you even

806
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 5: allow your mind to go there, what do you want

807
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 5: to do? What's your plan?

808
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 6: Well, as you hit upon do I even want to

809
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 6: go there? I have been reluctant, especially after seven years

810
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 6: ago when I was expecting to get out and I

811
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 6: was denied that. It was a very crushing blow and

812
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 6: it was difficult to endure. But yeah, of course I

813
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 6: do allow myself to think about what I'm out of here,

814
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 6: although I don't dwell upon it because I just I

815
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 6: don't know. I just can't go there for so much.

816
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 6: But the more I've gotten into restort justice, the more

817
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 6: I think it's an extremely beneficial philosophy and instead of

818
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 6: practices to kind of compliment our criminal justice system. And

819
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 6: so I really want to pursue that direction, and I

820
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 6: think that I can help out. I think I have

821
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 6: a lot of school or feel over here, So now

822
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 6: it's for being in here for the last twenty two

823
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 6: plus year in observing things from the inside, I feel

824
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 6: like I have a great perspective to be able to

825
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 6: help out in the source.

826
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 5: Just that sounds like a great scenario to me, and

827
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 5: both have benefits to society across the board. I don't

828
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 5: know if you're able to talk about it, but it

829
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 5: really struck me earlier when you told me that the

830
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 5: prison or your pod is on lockdown. What does that mean?

831
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 6: Well, so, where I'm at now, we've been on lockdown

832
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 6: the last two weeks, which means we're componed to our

833
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,479
Speaker 6: concrete box TI and when we're coming out every seventy

834
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 6: two hours to take a shower, they bring the food

835
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 6: to our door and I say our door because I

836
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 6: have a fill partner. Every sales two people for film,

837
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 6: and this is how I've been living for the last

838
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 6: two weeks, but moreover, it's pretty much how I've been

839
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 6: living for the last twenty two years. But when we're

840
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 6: not on lockdown, you know, I do have a ploticum

841
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 6: of freedoms if you will. You know, every once in

842
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 6: a while I can get outside and take fresh air

843
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 6: and work out. I've been rolled into a horticulture class

844
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 6: and learn about horticulture. I can actually have my fingers

845
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 6: and the soil and be able to have the opportunity

846
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 6: to plant some feeds and vegetables and so forth. It's

847
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 6: really been a positive thing, really really joining the horticulture.

848
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 5: And the last question about the prison experience, what is

849
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 5: an average day like when you're not on lockdown? You

850
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 5: wake up at five or something, How does how do

851
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 5: you get through the day?

852
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they have what they call count procedures in

853
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 6: which they have to come through and literally count every

854
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 6: individual while they're locked in the cell, about four times

855
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 6: or so every day, spread out throughout the day. And

856
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 6: during that time you have to be standing up and

857
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 6: your lives have to be on so they can see

858
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 6: that you're alive and will and that starts certainly before

859
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 6: six o'clock in the morning. So over the last twenty

860
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 6: two years, I've been up at five forty five about

861
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 6: that time and standing on the feet mid life wrong

862
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 6: the fluorescent lights every morning, and that's one of the

863
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 6: countsmen like I said, that goes throughout the day, and

864
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 6: that kind of segments the day. That in the beating

865
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 6: the channel repeating schedule. So the breakfast, unch, and dinner

866
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 6: and these kind of condition you and condition one into

867
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 6: the segments of the day. And so there's a period

868
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 6: in the morning after breakfast, I which if we're lucky,

869
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 6: we might get outside the recreation and recreations of a

870
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 6: yard as a track. I usually go jogging. If I'm

871
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 6: able to, I'll go into the weightlifting area list some

872
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 6: weight and they have a couple other recreational things to

873
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 6: guys hit around with the volleyball or the basketball. Otherwise,

874
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 6: there's not a lot of kind of rehabilitative programs. There

875
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 6: are a few, you know, I've been through a lot

876
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 6: of those things, but for most guys, I think that

877
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 6: you know, this place is more of a warehouse for

878
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 6: humans than anything. It's not really designed for as it

879
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 6: called correction necessarily, although there has been, you know, steps

880
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 6: towards that direction, of the hopeful steps in that direction.

881
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 6: You know, I think that the governor has made some

882
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 6: steps in that direction with the re entry ideas and

883
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 6: so forth. But you know, unfortunately there's largely the prisons

884
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 6: are placed with the warehouse humans. So there's only so

885
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 6: much a mind too in this environment. And so I

886
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 6: do utilize my time studying, you know, I spend my

887
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 6: money on the books and there's a library when I can,

888
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 6: and so that's kind of how I send my.

889
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 5: Well Dusty, all, I can tell you again, I know

890
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 5: you know about it, but I hope you can feel it.

891
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 5: There's a real wave of support for you among so

892
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 5: many people who care and who want to see you

893
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 5: or released and able to get on with your life

894
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 5: and put this nightmare behind you. And I want to

895
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 5: turn it over to you. Typically on wrongful conviction. I

896
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 5: like to leave the last word open so that you

897
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 5: can share any thoughts you have about anything at all

898
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 5: with our audience. I'll turn it over to you, Dusty.

899
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, as you mentioned, I do have a lot

900
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 6: of very strong supporters out here you Virginia, who are

901
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 6: total strangers, some of them gotten to know personally, and

902
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 6: they're just break people. I'm very fortunate to have these

903
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 6: people in my corner and who have recognized my wrongful prediction.

904
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 6: As far as the last words, I'm thankful. I really

905
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 6: appreciate mister Bomb for interviewing me. Very thankful that increasingly

906
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 6: more people know that I have been wrongfully depicted. And

907
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 6: I hope that people, you know, maybe reach out and

908
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,720
Speaker 6: talk to somebody. The filmmaker named JD. Sleet has created

909
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,959
Speaker 6: a film called The Target of Opportunity about my case,

910
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 6: and I was able to view it one time a

911
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 6: few years ago, and I think it encapsulates my situation

912
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,479
Speaker 6: pretty pretty well. And I just hope that people will

913
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 6: take some kind of interest and look into my case.

914
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 6: And I know that if anybody does, they will see

915
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 6: the travesty and the fact that I've been here for

916
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 6: over twenty two years for something I didn't do. I

917
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 6: had such a future in front of the military. I

918
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 6: love the military, plan to make a career. I want

919
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 6: to be in the Philpines and want to be the

920
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 6: best still Team operators in the country that I could

921
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 6: have been. My world was turned upside down and a

922
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 6: lot of so many people over one net brother guy.

923
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 6: So many people have been destroyed in Ruin in a

924
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 6: Brevin's family and my family, like city, and Billie Brown's family,

925
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 6: so many others. But again, I just thank you. I

926
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 6: really appreciate opportunities. Back to the interview.

927
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 5: So, Dusty, I want to repeat that the name of

928
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 5: the film is.

929
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 6: The name of the film is Target of Opportunity.

930
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 5: Target of Opportunity is the film. I've watched it. I

931
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 5: hope other people that are listening now will watch it too.

932
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 5: And Dusty, I'm sure people are listening. They want to

933
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 5: know how can they get involved? What would you advise?

934
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 6: Right? You know, unfortunately I am largely isolated you. I

935
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 6: have no Internet accidents. I've never been on the internet.

936
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 6: I've never even used the bill phone. However, I think

937
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 6: that people could maybe visit. I know that twitters have

938
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 6: created a website at Fredusty dot org. And I do

939
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 6: know too that there's a Twitter and Instagram account under

940
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 6: my name Free Dusty Turner, I think, and I know

941
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 6: that it's in a very leaf reaching out there that

942
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 6: my supporters would I'm sure to direct folks into the

943
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 6: best way that they might be able to help. I

944
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 6: know that writing to the governor Governitarry mccallis in Virginia's

945
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 6: directly may help out O. Other than that, I'm really

946
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 6: not sure what else say about it.

947
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 5: Okay, So once again, that's free. Dusty Turner is the

948
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 5: Instagram and the Twitter. The movie is Target of Opportunity.

949
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 5: Please learn more about this case and get involved. Follow

950
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 5: Dusty on social media and there'll be more information there

951
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 5: that you can learn how to how to help. And

952
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 5: now is the time to do it, because we're really

953
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 5: in the home stretch of this, this effort to free

954
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 5: Dusty Turner. You have wha we're having Dusty. All I

955
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 5: can say is hang in there. We're coming to get you.

956
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 5: Thank you Dusty for being on the show, and I'll

957
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 5: look forward to seeing you on the outside, hopefully sometime

958
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 5: very soon. You've been listening to a very special episode

959
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 5: of Wrongful Conviction Behind Bars with Dusty Turner. Dusty, thanks again, Thank.

960
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 6: You sir, Thank you for using GTL.

961
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

962
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 5: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one

963
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 5: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for

964
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 5: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our

965
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 5: production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as

966
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 5: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Kleiber.

967
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 5: The music in this production was supplied by three time

968
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 5: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us

969
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 5: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and

970
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 5: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram

971
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 5: at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of

972
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 5: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.

973
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported

974
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed

975
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: by the individuals featured in this show are their own

976
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.