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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Did an Arizona multi millionaire cover up his son's involvement

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Speaker 2: in murder?

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Speaker 1: Did his teen boy take part in.

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Speaker 2: Brutally beating another boy dead, kicking, beating until the boy

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Speaker 2: lie there unconscious and dies. Why did cops have to

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Speaker 2: apologize for allowing the multimillionaire dad's car to be valeted

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Speaker 2: when this goes to court?

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Speaker 1: What is happening? Does this guy really believe because he's.

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Speaker 2: A multi millionaire he's somehow above the law. Because I

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Speaker 2: got news for you, You're not, see Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: What happened the night of that fateful party? A group

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Speaker 2: of teens getting together at Halloween party?

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Speaker 1: How can it go so wrong?

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm at a party and a bunch of

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Speaker 3: people are with.

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Speaker 4: The guns and jump my friend and he's knocked.

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Speaker 3: Out on the ground. He's been unconscious for like two minutes.

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Speaker 1: We need people over here.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm let and then started, okay, don't hang up

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Speaker 3: to stay on the line with me.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing the nine to one one call from

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Speaker 2: the night This young boy was beaten and kicked brutally

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Speaker 2: until he dies. We've got an all star panel. But

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Speaker 2: first I want to go out to veteran criminal defense attorney,

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer in inter city Atlanta, Raymond Judice at

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Speaker 2: rayglaw dot com. Ray as you know you as a

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Speaker 2: defense attorney, me as a prosecutor.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I would like to do when.

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Speaker 2: I struck a jury is play the nine to one

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Speaker 2: one call, because witnesses can tell their version on the stand,

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Speaker 2: but there's nothing like what happened at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Agree, disagree, totally agree.

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Speaker 5: It's how you're going to open up your opening statement

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Speaker 5: to a jury. It also sets your timeline for the

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Speaker 5: events that will occur both at the scene and post investigation.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're right, and the first thing you want to

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Speaker 2: do is set up the timeline.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of the nine to one one call.

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Speaker 2: In front of a jury, I would play it straight

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Speaker 2: out all the way through.

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Speaker 1: Now, listen to more of that nine to one one call.

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Speaker 3: Listen, do you know the people that did this? Are

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Speaker 3: they still there? I don't know if they left, so

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Speaker 3: they're still here.

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Speaker 6: I got out there as quick as possible, so I

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Speaker 6: need to get her. I don't know the people that

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Speaker 6: are here.

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Speaker 3: We don't have any beef with them or any things.

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Speaker 3: Do you know did you see the people that assaulted them?

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Speaker 3: Did you see them well enough to get any description

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Speaker 3: or did you not see it?

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Speaker 6: Actually?

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Speaker 3: How they all had they all had masks on, and

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Speaker 3: it was how many?

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Speaker 1: Was it a lot?

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Speaker 3: It's like four or five or more like fifteen? Okay,

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Speaker 3: this is.

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Speaker 2: Every parent's worst nightmare, group or gang mentality. Uh, the

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Speaker 2: first case I ever had like this At that time,

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Speaker 2: I called it wilding. When young people or people in

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Speaker 2: general do things as part of a pack that they

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Speaker 2: would never do on their own.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of that nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call.

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Speaker 3: There's not a weak enough Well I know one, I know,

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 6: We're getting on.

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Speaker 3: You have a you have ali yourself, did all the stuff?

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Speaker 5: Are you still there?

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Speaker 3: I'm still here. Did you say your friend has a

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Speaker 3: whole snow?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's good. My god, dude, I'm so dead. Okay,

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Speaker 3: they're here.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You can hear the police arriving in the background, and

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Speaker 2: you hear the callers and the teams gathered around what

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Speaker 2: would soon be a dead body saying I am so dead.

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Speaker 2: They're worried about themselves being in trouble. And it's amazing

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Speaker 2: to me. I'm about to go to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime

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Speaker 2: online dot Com investigative reporter. It's amazing to me that

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Speaker 2: within hours, literally hours of this team boy just sixteen

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Speaker 2: years old, and you know, Alexis, this is the age

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Speaker 2: of my John, David and Lucy. Within hours of him

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Speaker 2: being pronounced dead, people were already trying to get money.

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Speaker 2: Listen to the call parton Crime Online.

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Speaker 9: As Preston Lord lays unconscious on the pavement, friends determine

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Speaker 9: his heart has stopped. Other partygoers perform CPR until police

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Speaker 9: arrive and take over. Lord is taken by ambulance to

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Speaker 9: Chandler Regional Hospital, then transferred to Phoenix Children's in extremely

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Speaker 9: critical condition with a severe brain injury. Preston Lord succumbs

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Speaker 9: to his injuries. For those involved, Lord's death is fodder

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Speaker 9: for social media, some trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 9: cash in on the reward money offered for information about

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Speaker 9: what happened. The suspects discuss the fight over Snapchat, with

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Speaker 9: one of the messages reading my mom once in on

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Speaker 9: the ten thousand dollars. These messages are some of the

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Speaker 9: first real clues police begin to follow.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand Alexis Treschuk. Within hours after this boy

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Speaker 2: is pronounced dead, people are trying to get thousands of dollars.

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Speaker 1: How is that?

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Speaker 6: So the police offered a reward, a ten thousand dollars

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Speaker 6: reward for any information about this case because, as the

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Speaker 6: kids said on the nine to one one call, they

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Speaker 6: were in a mask. So at first people were thinking, oh,

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Speaker 6: we don't know the identity of who these people are

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Speaker 6: that beat this little boy to death because they had

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Speaker 6: masks on. So there was a ten thousand dollar reward

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Speaker 6: offered for information leading to unrest. However, these kids that

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Speaker 6: are all talking are the ones that were involved in

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Speaker 6: the beating, and they're so callous. They're saying, oh, my

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Speaker 6: mom wants it on the money because they were involved

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Speaker 6: in it, so if the mom turns in another kid,

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Speaker 6: they'll get the money. But all of these kids were involved,

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Speaker 6: and they were on top of him, punching him, hitting

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Speaker 6: him in fact, so he goes knock to the ground

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Speaker 6: and these guys were on top of him, dry humping him,

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Speaker 6: so simulating like sex or raping this body that was

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Speaker 6: on the ground. Now, which all these other kids, you know,

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Speaker 6: there were hundreds of kids at this party were watching

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Speaker 6: this happen. They're calling nine one one. They're trying to

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Speaker 6: get it stuff. They're scared because they'd seen guns. And

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Speaker 6: it really started because apparently one of the guys grabbed

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Speaker 6: a gold necklace off a girl there, just ripped it

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Speaker 6: off her and stole it, so Preston tried to get

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Speaker 6: it back. He wasn't fighting with these guys. He wasn't

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Speaker 6: saying bad things then was. He just tried to get

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Speaker 6: his friend's necklace back, like being a stand up gentleman

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Speaker 6: for his friend. And that's when they unleashed on him.

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Speaker 1: Guys.

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Speaker 2: The day Preston Lord, this teen boy dies, apparently another kid,

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Speaker 2: a rich brat with silver.

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Speaker 1: Spoon in his mouth.

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Speaker 2: Dad is multimillionaire dad Travis Renner goes to work.

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Speaker 1: According to sources, I'd love to.

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Speaker 2: Hear from mister Renner if he would join us trying

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Speaker 2: to cover up his son's involvement. Take a listen to

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Speaker 2: Crime Onlines Dave Mack.

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Speaker 10: The day Preston Lord passes away, Talon renders millionaire five.

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Speaker 10: Travis Renner goes to work trying to cover up the

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Speaker 10: teen's involvement. Renner and his business partner allegedly hand out

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Speaker 10: NDA's and push a story that, despite Talent Renner having

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Speaker 10: thrown the first punch, Talan Vigil was truly to blame

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Speaker 10: for Lord's death. Renner tells the school his son is

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Speaker 10: being bullied and whisks Talent away to his eight hundred

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Speaker 10: thousand dollars golf club cabin in show Low, Arizona for

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Speaker 10: a week while Talon's hands healed from the fight. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 10: Talon Renter brags to friends on Snapchat, I got in

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Speaker 10: a fight, a big group fight, and I accidentally killed

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Speaker 10: a kid. I guess I'm just too strong.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now.

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Speaker 2: Board certified forensic pathologists, former medical examiner in Vegas. Never

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Speaker 2: lack a business there, doctor Gan Gorniac. Doctor Gorniac, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna circle back to you about the injury sustained by

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Speaker 2: the boy, the dead boy. But what do you believe

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Speaker 2: they're talking about? After seeing so many dead bodies in

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Speaker 2: the morgue When we say that we.

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Speaker 1: Have been told informed the father kept.

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Speaker 2: His son away for about a week till his quote

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Speaker 2: injuries healed.

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Speaker 1: What are they talking about?

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Speaker 7: So obviously, when you have any blunt injuries, that means

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Speaker 7: your body hits something or something hit your body. So

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Speaker 7: in this case of this young thug, he actually has

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Speaker 7: injuries on his hands because his hands hit something, unfortunately,

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Speaker 7: this young man's head, so he's going to have contusions

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Speaker 7: or bruises on his hands. So he's going to probably

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Speaker 7: take depending if he has any other cuts on his hand,

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Speaker 7: it's going to take some time for them to heal.

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Speaker 2: And under Gorniat, you have studied the case, what can

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Speaker 2: you tell us about the victim's injuries. I understand he

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Speaker 2: was beaten and kicked dead. He laid there on the

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Speaker 2: ground while all of these I guess friends frenemies beat

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Speaker 2: him dead, But what is the actual cause of death

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Speaker 2: in a case?

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Speaker 7: In a case like this, it sounds like his injuries

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Speaker 7: are blunt first injuries of the head. He got hit

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Speaker 7: so hard with obviously fists. I'm not sure. When they're

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Speaker 7: beating him while he's down, does that mean also and

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Speaker 7: he kicks I'm not sure, But he has extensive head trauma,

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Speaker 7: so therefore he also has some bleeding within his brain.

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Speaker 7: So blood on your brain causes some swelling of your brain,

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Speaker 7: which is incompatible with life. And we heard that he

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Speaker 7: was unconscious at the scene, you know, right, after the

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Speaker 7: injuries occurred, so it sounds like he was hit so hard,

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Speaker 7: plus his head probably hit concrete, so that in combination

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Speaker 7: really caused some devastating injuries that caused him to go

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Speaker 7: on responsive immediately.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm also curious and read Judy Cha. I'd

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Speaker 2: like you to address this. It's reminding me a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I know that you followed very closely the case of

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyout of South Carolina, Alexan Murdoga. He was

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Speaker 2: ultimately convicted in the double murder of his wife, Maggie

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Speaker 2: AND's son Paul. Immediately he tried to change the narrative.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? That's the now talk of getting

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Speaker 2: someone to change their story, because right at the get go,

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Speaker 2: we've been told and again I welcome the multimillionaire dad

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Speaker 2: to come on and clear all this up. But apparently

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Speaker 2: Renner's a millionaire dad. Tristan Renner goes to work trying

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Speaker 2: to cover up his son's alleged involvement. Renner and his

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Speaker 2: business partner, Yeah, go ahead and rope in your buddy

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Speaker 2: in this allegedly hand out n DA's that's a non disclosure,

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Speaker 2: A great and push a story that the son, the

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Speaker 2: millionaire son Talon Renner, having thrown the first punch, that

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Speaker 2: the victim is truly to blame. Okay, I don't understand

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Speaker 2: that now claiming that his millionaire son has been bullied.

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Speaker 2: Wait when it's just that's completely bast awkwards. I mean,

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Speaker 2: can't you go to jail for witness tampering?

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Speaker 4: Ray?

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Speaker 5: Well, Phoenix, Arizona's a big town, nancy, but they're going

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Speaker 5: to have to import lawyers from all over the country

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Speaker 5: for all the extra defendants, including parents and business associations,

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Speaker 5: potentially for the quote unquote changing the narrative slash cover up.

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Speaker 5: But what you're clearly trying to set up is a

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Speaker 5: self defense accident case that perhaps a fight broke out

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Speaker 5: between two young men over in a disagreement and a

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Speaker 5: young man fell and as a doctor said, get his

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Speaker 5: head on the back of the back of the head

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Speaker 5: on the concrete. And I'm my son may have struck him,

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Speaker 5: but there's a causation issue as to which blows cause

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Speaker 5: the fatality, again shaping the narrative, shaping their opening statement

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Speaker 5: for trial. But again there's going to be a lot

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Speaker 5: of this is a Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: four for Metro Phoenix.

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Speaker 2: The Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty four. Hold On,

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Speaker 2: is that Gorniac? Yes, it is Gornia, doctor Gordiat. Hold

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Speaker 2: on before I lose my train of thought here, of course,

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Speaker 2: because I'm scared right now. Did you hear what Raymond

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Speaker 2: Judice just said? And he completely said it with a

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Speaker 2: straight face. Okay, this kid was beaten. He was down

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Speaker 2: on the ground, still being beaten, still being punched, until

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Speaker 2: he dies, he dies.

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Speaker 1: Why am I angry?

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Speaker 2: Because my son and my daughter are the same age

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Speaker 2: as this boy. They go to parties and you heard

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Speaker 2: you to cha put him up?

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Speaker 1: You hear jud Chay, just spin it. He's spinning it.

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Speaker 1: You don't like what he says? I don't, But that's.

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Speaker 2: What's gonna happen in court, and district attorney, you darn

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Speaker 2: well better be ready. Did you hear what he says?

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Speaker 2: Changing the narrative? What does that mean? Lying? That's what

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Speaker 2: changing the narrative means that now the victim fell. The

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Speaker 2: victim did not fall. He was punched, and we know,

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Speaker 2: according to witnesses, suit through the front first.

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Speaker 1: Punch he fell. And now we're gonna have a causation issue.

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Speaker 1: My rear end.

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Speaker 2: Gornier, you started this all right now, jud Cha picked

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Speaker 2: it up and ran with it. That he fell and

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Speaker 2: just died. He fell and died.

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Speaker 1: You know I've fallen a lot, a lot, running.

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Speaker 2: Chasing the children, being a cheerleader. This that I never

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Speaker 2: just died because I fell. But this is the spin out.

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Speaker 1: This is a new recitation. History is being rewritten.

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Speaker 2: By Gornia And you know, Gorniac, I always agree with

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Speaker 2: you and Judice. That's what's gonna happen at trial. Ray,

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Speaker 2: That's what's gonna happen at trial. What you just did.

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Speaker 11: A tipster notifies police that Talon Renner admitted to a

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Speaker 11: friend that he threw the first punch. Owen Hines told

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Speaker 11: a friend he only kicked him in the stomach. Nearly

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Speaker 11: all the witnesses point out trust and Billy and Dominic

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Speaker 11: Turner as aggressors due to their distinct costumes that night.

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Speaker 11: Turner wore all black while Billy donned a white suit.

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Speaker 11: Using the suspects, digital media investigators find Taylor Sherman, who

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Speaker 11: admits to taking a video of Preston as he is

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Speaker 11: unconscious on the ground and sending it out on Snapchat.

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Speaker 11: Talan Vigil also sent a message reading I hit a

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Speaker 11: kid and this kid fell hit his head, then they

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Speaker 11: kicked his head in the ground. Then I got word

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Speaker 11: he died.

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Speaker 2: So idy k you were hearing Sidney Sumner from crime

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Speaker 2: Online And what stands out to me is that a

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Speaker 2: tipster notifies police that the millionaire juvenile tailor Renter admits

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Speaker 2: he throws the first punch and then it's a free

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Speaker 2: for all with this little boy being kicked and beaten dead.

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Speaker 2: Seven young men, including the high school football star Talent Renter,

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Speaker 2: aged seventeen, which is.

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Speaker 1: Important why is he in juvenile court, have been.

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Speaker 2: Charged in the brutal murder of teen boy Preston Lord.

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Speaker 1: Preston Lord.

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Speaker 2: We are also learning that group violence by teens in

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Speaker 2: the Phoenix area is growing, and now there's a huge

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Speaker 2: wave of public of citizens demanding justice that there is

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Speaker 2: not two tier justice, one for the rich man and

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Speaker 2: one for the poor man. But that's what it seems

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Speaker 2: to be shaping up as after local law enforcement give

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Speaker 2: Preston give Talent Renter's parents special valet parking for their

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Speaker 2: tesla at the courthouse, then they had to backtrack and

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Speaker 2: apologize out that's embarrassing. But right now, instead of discussing

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Speaker 2: the dad's tesla, let me bring back in doctor Jan Gorniac,

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Speaker 2: a renowned medical examiner and high profile lawyer in the

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Speaker 2: Atlanta jurisdiction Raymond Judicia dodgor Gorniac, you were clarifying your analysis.

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Speaker 7: What were you saying, well, listening to mister Raymond about

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Speaker 7: possibly saying that it was the fall and not the

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Speaker 7: punch that caused his death. In our forensic world, we

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Speaker 7: use the butt for the butt for the punch. He

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Speaker 7: wouldn't have fallen.

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Speaker 9: And hit his head.

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Speaker 7: I've had cases where someone swung and missed and fell

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Speaker 7: and ended up dying and that's still ruled a homicide.

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Speaker 7: So I understand what the defense might come in and

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Speaker 7: try to say, but from where I sit, that's still

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Speaker 7: a homicide just because I mean, but for a punch,

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Speaker 7: he wouldn't have just fallen and hit his head. It

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Speaker 7: wasn't like he tripped and fell down the stairs. Something

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Speaker 7: contacted his head to cause him to fall. So that's why,

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Speaker 7: no matter what they come in and say, this would

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Speaker 7: still be ruled a homicide from the medical examiner's standpoint.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, doctor gorniac.

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Speaker 2: But somebody like Raymond Giudice is going to take that

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Speaker 2: thread and run with it till your whole sweater is

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Speaker 2: nothing but a pile of yarn.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be all over It's.

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Speaker 2: Like a pack of cats tore it up. Because you're

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Speaker 2: absolutely correct. This boy would not be on the ground

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Speaker 2: dying if that first punch had not been thrown.

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Speaker 1: There's your butt. Four.

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Speaker 2: He's going to argue at trial, Yeah, he threw the

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Speaker 2: first punch, but he didn't kill him. Well, this is

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Speaker 2: what I would say, is a prosecutor. They're all going

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Speaker 2: in the same pot to stew. Nobody's getting a plea.

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Speaker 2: Everybody is going to trial for murder. Because I want you, Jerry,

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Speaker 2: to think what it would be like lying on the floor,

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Speaker 2: the ground, the pavement, looking up at all these faces.

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Speaker 1: And halloween masks.

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Speaker 2: This bizarre scenario when you're taking a blow to the head,

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Speaker 2: a kick to the kidney so vicious, you end up

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Speaker 2: dying and the last thing you see is this gang

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Speaker 2: of animals over you, dressed in these halloween outfits, kicking

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Speaker 2: and beating you dead. Oh hell no, nobody is getting

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Speaker 2: a plea.

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Speaker 1: All right, go ahead, Ray Well, I.

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Speaker 5: Agree with the doctor. She's an expert. But the argument

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Speaker 5: that I made, which I believe we will have expert

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Speaker 5: testimony to, will at least allow number one, a lesser

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Speaker 5: included charge of involuntary manslaughter to a jury. Okay, that's

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Speaker 5: number one. And you know how critical that is. It

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Speaker 5: allows a jury to find for a lesser included charge.

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Speaker 5: It allows a defense to argue that in closing. And

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Speaker 5: I'll bet you dimes to dollars, Nancy, one of these

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Speaker 5: young men's going to take a plea, and now you

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Speaker 5: know how it works.

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Speaker 2: They're not taking a plea unless I offer a plea.

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Speaker 2: You can't take a plea that has to have been offered.

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Speaker 5: They'll take a plea. You wait and see someone's going

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Speaker 5: to offer it.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 5: I know you. You might not offer it, and I agree,

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Speaker 5: I understand how you would play it. But I guarantee

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Speaker 5: you close to trial, somebody's gonna roll. Some is going

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Speaker 5: to come up and be a state's witness so they

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Speaker 5: can get that murder conviction that you want.

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Speaker 2: Now, I want a murder conviction on everybody that laid

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Speaker 2: a hand or a foot on this boy that touched

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Speaker 2: a hair on his head.

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Speaker 1: I want them all.

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Speaker 2: I would not be happy with just one, and I

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Speaker 2: don't want the rich kid to be the scapegoat. They're

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Speaker 2: all part of this, and you know it's so great

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Speaker 2: about it. They were taking videos, These jackasses technical legal phrase,

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Speaker 2: they're taking videos, bringing in Julie Lewis, digital forensic expert,

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Speaker 2: President CEO of Digital Mountain Ink. Julie, if anything can

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Speaker 2: make me happy about this scenario, it's the advent of

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Speaker 2: a cell phone.

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Speaker 1: They're all taking videos.

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Speaker 2: Now, how do you think a jury is going to

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Speaker 2: react to a gang attack on a single victim already down, unarmed?

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Speaker 1: Not good? Not good.

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Speaker 8: Those smartphones have a ton of digital evidence. In this case.

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Speaker 8: They're using Snapchat as their messaging app for pictures and messages,

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Speaker 8: and there's a lot of other things like Instagram, social

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Speaker 8: media online that could be looked at. We do that

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Speaker 8: all the time. We do open source intelligence investigations with kids.

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Speaker 8: They have no filter these messages. Also, you have to

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Speaker 8: get them quickly because a lot of these are ephemeral

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Speaker 8: applications like Snapchat. If you do a snap, it'll disappear

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Speaker 8: by default immediately unless the user changes it to holding

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Speaker 8: a message for twenty four hours or not at all Jilie.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that was my next question because all the time

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Speaker 2: my twins are want, well, I got so so snapchat.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, show me, I know what's gone. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if they're just telling me that yeah, or if.

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Speaker 1: It really is gone.

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Speaker 2: Can they retrieve a snapchat? Can it be retrieved by

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Speaker 2: LA law enforcement?

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Speaker 8: So law enforcement has access to be able to see

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Speaker 8: more on the phones than we can on the commercial side.

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Speaker 8: It's called a physical image, and in that they may

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Speaker 8: be those those databases could be decryptive.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you've already lost me. Is that a yes or

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Speaker 1: a no?

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Speaker 2: Cans you're saying yes, I can retrieve a snapchat.

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Speaker 8: I'm going to give you a lawyer answer. It depends.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I'm a lawyer. I can try a murder case

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Speaker 2: doing what you're doing. They didn't teach me that in

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Speaker 2: criminal law. So I just need a black and white.

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Speaker 2: Is there a chance I can get those snaps back?

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Speaker 8: It's possible. So it's similar to having a camera in

401
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Speaker 8: your office that's randomly taking screenshots. There are parts of

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Speaker 8: the phone that store things in something called memory, and

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Speaker 8: so it depends.

404
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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what I'm going to have to work

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Speaker 2: with you, as I've told many a witness, because you're

406
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Speaker 2: not helping me right now, all right, I got a

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Speaker 2: narrative this thing down and get an answer that when

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Speaker 2: I say a jury will understand, I mean that I

409
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Speaker 2: will understand. And quick question alexis truest and I want

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Speaker 2: Juliet Lewis to hear that.

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Speaker 1: Julie Lewis to hear this.

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Speaker 2: It's not just the snaps, Alexis. These jackasses bragged they

413
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Speaker 2: sent texts back and forth. Okay, that's the first time

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Speaker 2: I've seen that smirk.

415
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Speaker 1: Wiped off Juda Jay's face.

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Speaker 2: Because now is it true that there are that there

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Speaker 2: are not just snaps which can disappear, but there are texts.

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Speaker 6: Yes, text messages where the kids are saying, I hit

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Speaker 6: the kid. He hit his head. The other kids jumped

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Speaker 6: on the ground. I think he died. Another one, Talon Renner, says,

421
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Speaker 6: I got in a fight with a kid.

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Speaker 1: I hit him.

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Speaker 6: I think he died. I didn't even know my own strength.

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Speaker 6: Another kid writes, bro that kid died. They know it,

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Speaker 6: and they're saying also, one of them said, do not

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Speaker 6: delete the video because you can use that and you

427
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 6: get ten thousand dollars this is the ten thousand dollars

428
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 6: the FBI announced as a reward is you can use

429
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 6: that and you can get the money. So they're all

430
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 6: admitting they knew that there was video of this murder.

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Speaker 1: Bragging.

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Speaker 2: Did I just hear Alexis Tereschuk say bragging and deleting evidence?

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00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: Did I hear that was somebody bragging?

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00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: And did someone ask for everyone to delete or not

435
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: delete evidence?

436
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 6: They were bragging to each other. They were messaging each other,

437
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 6: not just pictures on Snapchat, messaging each other. They and

438
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 6: then another kid wrote to the kid that had the video,

439
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 6: who had taken video at the fight, and said, dude,

440
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 6: don't delete that video because you can get ten thousand

441
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 6: dollars because the police had offered a reward for it.

442
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 6: So they're saying, your video could be given as evidence

443
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 6: and then you could win, not win, you can get

444
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 6: the reward of money. So they are clearly stating there

445
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 6: is video of the murder and that they should not

446
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 6: delete it because it can be used to help them

447
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 6: get money. No, oh, this is going to help our

448
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 6: friend go to jail. This is going to take the

449
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 6: bad guys out, But you're going to get money. You're

450
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 6: going to cash in on this.

451
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: You know what, the jury is going to have a

452
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: bad taste in their mouth about all of these guys.

453
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: That is why defendants very often will seek a severance.

454
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: In other words, they want to be tried separately from

455
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: each other. But if it's not a death penalty case

456
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: and there are no interlocking statements where one defendant brings

457
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: blames the other defendant, if the state doesn't use those,

458
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: these guys are going to be tried together.

459
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: Why is that significant?

460
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: Because let's just pretend Alexis and I rob a bank

461
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: and I blame Alexis, because of course it's going to

462
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: be her fault. If we're tried together, she won't be

463
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: able to cross examine me on me blaming her because

464
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not going to take the stand. No way

465
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 2: that denies her under the sixth of Men of her

466
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: right to confront the state's witnesses. Even though I'm a

467
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: defendant and a bank robbery, I'm still a state's witness.

468
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: So if the state chooses not to use those interlocking confessions,

469
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 2: then they can be tried together. And what I advise

470
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: to the state, not that they care what I think,

471
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: but don't use the statements.

472
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: You don't need them, You've got video people try them

473
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: all together again. Stu in the same pot.

474
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: I want to address to Julie Lewis, digital forensics expert

475
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: CEO Digital Mountain.

476
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: What about what Alexis just told us that.

477
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: A lot of these communications were not a picture, which

478
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: is normally what Snapchat is.

479
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: But a written message. How about those? Please give me

480
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: a yes note, do not go into digital land. Just

481
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: tell me. Can I get those messages back? Okay? Well,

482
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: oh here she goes, go ahead.

483
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 8: Well, I just want to educate a little bit. Apps

484
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 8: can be snaps, video and pictures, and then there's chats

485
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 8: which are also on Snapchat, and it's Snapchat is meant

486
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 8: to delete things fairly quickly, so snaps are usually a

487
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 8: media fault in the chats are within twenty four hours.

488
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 8: But don't forget about the need of message on the

489
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 8: phone as well. So there's all these different messaging apps

490
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 8: that teenagers use, and you got to look at them

491
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 8: all because there could be more evidence there and the

492
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 8: photos and pictures and all sorts of stuff that are

493
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 8: your treasure trove.

494
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: What is a native message?

495
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 8: That's what's the messaging app on the phone that comes

496
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 8: pre installed. That's not a third party out.

497
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: Okay, so you mean like it's not Snap, So the

498
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: phone itself may contain evidence. Okay, let's see our defense

499
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: attorney expert, Raymond Judice. So you know all that stuff

500
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: you were saying, let me get in my notes. I

501
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: think I threw them away. All your theory about oh,

502
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: he just fell and just died because he fell, And

503
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: what did you say? Oh, I've got to find there's

504
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: going to be a quote causation issue, a causation issue.

505
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: Translation.

506
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: The defense is going to claim that the beating inflicted

507
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: by these seven people is not why the guy died.

508
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: This little boy died because he fell. All right, that's

509
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: where he's going. But what about the videos? What about

510
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: the text messages? What about the messages via Snap? And

511
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: as Julie said, the message is native to the phone.

512
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: That don't just disappear on a third party app. You

513
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 2: think you might be in a little hot water.

514
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 5: Now it's the timeline. You're going to start with those

515
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 5: nine to one one recordings and you're going to move,

516
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 5: as our legal technical out and expert just stated, all

517
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 5: of these emails and text messages and photos will have

518
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 5: a time stamp, and a good prosecutor is going to

519
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 5: surgically one after another set out the time frame. Quite frankly,

520
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 5: the prosecutor and the team's bigg problem maybe having too

521
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 5: many texts and statements coming from who knows who. But again,

522
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 5: sometimes Nancy, when there's not a severance and you've got

523
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 5: seven co defendants with high priced legal counsel, confusion. I

524
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 5: hate to use it, but that's part of the defense strategy.

525
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 5: It wasn't me who punched him that caused the death causation.

526
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 5: It's co defendant Johnson who kicked him in the stomach

527
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 5: that caused the death. And that's what you're going to

528
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 5: see at trial. One quick thing, One quick thing. I

529
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 5: think they're all going to be treated as adults and

530
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 5: tried and as you call it, big boycourt. However, the

531
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 5: option of taking a defendant, a co defendant and treating

532
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 5: him as a juvenile is a very enticing situation for

533
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 5: a plea bargain. Keep that in mind.

534
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: That's interesting because I've never been enticed ever to allow

535
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: a killer to play it out in genesis. I'm not

536
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: happy about the situation, but I did try a thirteen

537
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: year old for murder in adult court.

538
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: Did I like it?

539
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 4: No?

540
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: Was in my duty? Yes?

541
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: Did he get convicted? Yes, because he jumped into a

542
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: pawn shop, stole a handful of dolt ropes gold chain,

543
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: shot three people, killing one and leaving the other one

544
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: in a wheelchair in a colostomy back for the rest

545
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: of his life. Hell no, he's not being treated as

546
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: a juvenile. That said, I've never heard of too much

547
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: evidence for the state, But thank you for floating another

548
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: defense theory.

549
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace joining me.

550
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: The woman who made the initial nine to one one

551
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: call tried to get help for the teen boy victim.

552
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: Listen to her nine to one one call.

553
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: Can we please get an officer at the corner of

554
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety seventh Place in Dada Palmers. There

555
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: is gotta be at least two hundred and fifty kiss here.

556
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: You're walking the streets. We're not used to this. I'm

557
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 3: not used to this in my neighborhood for being here

558
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 3: twenty five years. There's too many cars.

559
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 8: These kids are gonna hit each other.

560
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: Someone's gonna get hurt, someone's gonna get it.

561
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: With us an all star panel to make sense of

562
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: what we know right now? About the death of Preston Lord,

563
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: a teen boy beaten dead. But first I want to

564
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: go to Gina Pintello, the neighbor who called nine one one.

565
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: Gina, it's amazing that you called.

566
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: Nine one one and that you're joining us tonight, because

567
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: you know what, I've learned that the majority of people

568
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: I don't get it, don't do anything. They stand by

569
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: and watch or the video with their cell phone while

570
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: somebody is either raped or assaulted or murdered. But you didn't.

571
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: And I want to start with that and say thank you. Jana,

572
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: tell me what happened that night.

573
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate that, and forgive my emotion and listening

574
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 4: to that and hearing you it brings back that evening.

575
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 4: But we live at the entrance of the subdivision, and

576
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 4: there were dozens upon dozens upon dozens of cars parked

577
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: back to back every side of the street coming in

578
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 4: and out of the subdivision. Teenagers, large groups of teenagers

579
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 4: walking everywhere, you know, in a normally quiet neighborhood. It

580
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 4: was kind of shocking to walk out and see it's

581
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 4: kind of mass crowd forming and coming in and out

582
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: of the subdivision. My husband and I immediately said we

583
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 4: might want to call the police. And as soon as

584
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 4: we're saying that, we see the police actually come into

585
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 4: the subdivision. Within another five to ten minutes, we watched

586
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 4: the police circle the block and leaf, and you immediately

587
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: started teenes just continued to fill the neighborhood. You could

588
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 4: clearly see students or children walking with bottles cans, appear

589
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 4: to be intoxicated. Some were yelling, you know, and then we.

590
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: Started to see accidents yelling.

591
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 4: You know, they were yelling things like, h don't get

592
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 4: drunk kids, you know, just appearing intoxicated and holding what

593
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 4: looked like cans up in the air, you know. So

594
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 4: you could see this was starting to get rowdy as

595
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 4: in the streets. And then within a few minutes of that,

596
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 4: you started we started seeing accidents. So now they're jam

597
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 4: packed in this neighborhood. Some are trying to get in

598
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 4: and out of the subdivision. You can't even turn off

599
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 4: the main road, and they start rear ending one another.

600
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: They might hop out quickly look and then they're driving

601
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 4: away from these accidents. We hear another accident down the road,

602
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 4: and then within seconds we start seeing groups of teams

603
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 4: jumping over our back fence or coming out of our backyard,

604
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 4: jumping into our front yard, running into cars, and I said,

605
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: this is getting out of control. H We've got to

606
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 4: call nine one one, and that's and we need the

607
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 4: police back here. And that's when I made my call.

608
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 4: And when I made that call, I didn't know at

609
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 4: the same time the attack on Preston and the other

610
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 4: young boys was taking place. At that scene exact time with.

611
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: Me is Gina Pigntello who was speaking out, a boy

612
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: is dead. And can I tell you, Preston Lord, is

613
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: the age of my twins, their whole life in front

614
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: of them. But instead of graduating from high school and

615
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: going on all these college tours I've got planned for them,

616
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: it's over for him. And it's not just him that's gone.

617
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: It's hopes, their dreams, all their energy, all their love,

618
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 2: all their money into their boy. Preston Lord. When did

619
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 2: you learn, Gina Pintello, that a boy had been essentially

620
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: stopped dead in your neighborhood.

621
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, my neighbors and I actually didn't learn the details

622
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 4: until Monday. So this occurred Saturday evening and we didn't

623
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 4: learn the details until Monday. You know, we began kind

624
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 4: of neighbors sharing text and the gofund me, Oh my goodness,

625
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 4: this poor young man is fighting for his life. And

626
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 4: then within a few hours we learned that that he

627
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 4: had died. Yeah, just we could have never you know, imagined.

628
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: The parents were in it was their super Bowl, their

629
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: son was coming into his own all those years of

630
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: love and nurturing, and now this when you learned about

631
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: what happened to Jana?

632
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: What were you told? Did everybody know who did it?

633
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 4: Pretty immediately I like to call them the kind of

634
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 4: parents of the East Valley began sharing and setting up

635
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 4: We've heard these names, We've seen these snapchat messages. Groups

636
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 4: started forming because we were getting no answers. But I

637
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 4: can tell you within those first few days, that first week,

638
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 4: the names we saw that were arrested were the same

639
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 4: names we saw within those first few days we heard

640
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 4: about the families like the Renters taking their son to

641
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 4: hide him up in the mountains, to hide injuries. These

642
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 4: parents that began gathering all this information, much of what

643
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 4: was in the police report released just last week. We

644
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 4: were learning and had and we're getting videos within that

645
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 4: first week of this incident happening.

646
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: And joining me now esteemed forensic psychologists, Doctor Sherry Schwartz.

647
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: She specializes in capital mitigation and victim advocacy. You can

648
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: find her at Panthermitigation dot com and she's the author.

649
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: She literally wrote the book on criminal Behavior and another

650
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: book where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank

651
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: you for being with us. I was saying at the beginning,

652
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: doctor Sherry, And I'm sure you can say much more

653
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: eloquently than I can. People do things in a group

654
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: they wouldn't normally do on their own.

655
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,479
Speaker 1: On their own, do I care?

656
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 4: No?

657
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: I care that this boy is dead and million the

658
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: millionaire at defendant's father has been hiding him out, and

659
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: a million dollar golf cabin. There's such a thing as

660
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: flight after a crime, where you hide from law enforcement.

661
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: That never looks good. But can I talk to you?

662
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: Oh there, oooh that is nice. I want to talk

663
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: to you about the group mentality here and whether it

664
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 2: actually relates anyone a responsibility.

665
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 4: Well.

666
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 12: I work, also, Nancy, on a lot of juvenile direct

667
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 12: file cases. When I say direct file, basically what I

668
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 12: mean is they're charged as an adult, and in my experience, no,

669
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 12: it doesn't absolve them of legal responsibility. I think people

670
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 12: can argue it doesn't absolve them of moral responsibility. I

671
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 12: expect that some super lawyers like Ray Jiudice will come

672
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 12: forth with arguments about juvenile brain and how their brain

673
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 12: isn't fully developed, and this can account for some of

674
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 12: the behavior. And there's group dynamics at work as well,

675
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 12: such as mob mentality. There's always at least one or

676
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 12: two leaders. The larger the group, the less informed the

677
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 12: fringe members are. But they go along, they conform with

678
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 12: the behavior. But still at the end of the day,

679
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 12: under the legal system, in my experience, this doesn't really

680
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 12: much matter. They're going to be held accountable, just the

681
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 12: same as the person that starts.

682
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: You know, I've told myself a million times because it's easy,

683
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 2: that my fiancee Keith didn't feel anything.

684
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: When he was dying.

685
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: He was shot five times in the face and the

686
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: neck and the head, and I like to believe that,

687
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: but I know inside.

688
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: That's not true. He had to feel at least the

689
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: first bullet. He had to know something horrible was happening.

690
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: This is a teen.

691
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: Boy, Preston Lord is dead and he's never coming back,

692
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: and so help me God in heaven, there will be justice.

693
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: Let us stop and remember an American hero, Sergeant Nevada Crinky.

694
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 2: He was shot dead end of Watch at just thirty

695
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: three years old. Sheridan Wyoming father, a US veteran eight

696
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: years of service in Afghanistan. He survived by his wife,

697
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: Carla and his baby daughter, Bella. Nevada CREENK Nancy Gray

698
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: signing off goodbye friend