WEBVTT - Misophonia: More Than an Annoyance 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:04.840 Hey, everybody, we are coming to a town ostensibly near you, 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:06.360 so putatively see us. 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:10.520 That's right, May twenty ninth. We'll be in Boston, really Medford, Massachusetts. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:13.319 The next night we're gonna go down to Washington, DC, 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.040 and then scooch back up to New York City at 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:17.760 Town Hall on May thirty first. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:19.760 Yeah, and if you're one of those people who likes 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:21.720 to plan way far in advance, then you can go 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.160 ahead and get tickets for our shows in August. We're 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:25.560 gonna start out where Chuck. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.720 We're gonna be in Chicago August seventh, Minneapolis August eighth, 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.880 then Indianapolis for the very first time on August ninth, 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.400 and then we're gonna wrap it up in Durham, North Carolina, 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.640 and right here in Atlanta on September fifth and September seventh. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:39.880 Yep. So you can get all the info you need 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.159 and all the ticket links you need by going to 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.920 stuff youshould Know dot com and hitting that tour button, 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.400 or you can also go to linktree slash SYSK Live. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:51.320 We'll see you guys this year. 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:59.520 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.840 Hey, and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh, and there's 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.360 Chuck and Jerry's here too. It's the trio, the Tom 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.760 and Jerry and Jerry of podcasting. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.720 Yeah, okay, I like that. 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.840 Well, no, how about Tom and Jerry and Jerry's little 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.319 like nephew who's always getting in trouble but he's super cute. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.720 Is that a character? Yeah? I'm not sure if I 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:26.240 remember that. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.440 He was a little great kid in diapers, very very cute. 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.200 Even Tom wanted to take care of him. 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:35.080 Sometimes it feels like so many shows and cartoons felt 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:38.840 the need to bring on like a little cute edition 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.640 every now and then. Whether it was cousin Oliver, I 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:46.000 was gonna say him on The Brady Bunch or god Zuki? 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.800 Who Godzilla and god Zuki? Mm hmm, Yeah, it was 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:53.960 a little cute baby Godzilla. 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.360 Oh that's great, we'll good. Way to go, Godzilla. You 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.320 really slip went past Goalie or whoever? 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.200 This one? Who's this one? What's his name? 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.079 I don't know, Jerry. That's why I said Tom and 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.600 Jerry and Jerry, I gotcha. There's also don't forget Captain 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:19.280 Caveman and Son. Yeah, pretty straightforward stuff. Uh, but that's 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.320 not at all what we're talking about, Chuck, Let's just 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:24.839 get serious here. Let's get down to brass tacks. Let's 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.480 get down to the facts. In other words, as our 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:32.919 Cockney friends say, we're talking about misophonia. And there was 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.000 an O in there somewhere, but my voice hitched mesophonia. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.200 And it's possible I just accidentally set some people off 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.720 because when I said it that second time, I articulated 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:48.679 it clearly the oh. And vocal articulation or speech articulation 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.639 where you're really pronouncing a phoneme can can trigger mesophonia, 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.040 which we should say means hatred of sound and is 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:05.359 essentially a outrage just nervous reaction to sounds that make 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.920 the average that the other the average person doesn't even notice. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.160 Yeah, and we'll get into like all of the stuff 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:17.960 here with me sophonia, But it's it seems to be 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.600 more like, uh, generally, more like sounds people make, like 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.240 you often hear about like chewing food or lip smacking 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.520 or chewing gum, just sort of like body sounds that 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.120 people make yawning sometimes. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:38.440 Yeah, particularly oro facial like this yeah, or nose yeah. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.000 So that's typically it. I mean, you know, there's a 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.440 range of stuff, but I thought maybe we could chat 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:48.240 very briefly just about sounds that you hate, Like if 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.720 you have any triggering sounds at all, it. 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.600 Triggers probably a strong word, because I don't like fly 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:01.320 into rage. I don't necessarily feel disgusted. Like the closest 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.320 would be someone using a leaf blower. I just think 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:06.520 those are the worst people on the planet. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.600 I forgot about that. You're you're long running feud with 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.440 the I can't stand them chucked the blowers. I know 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.360 I'm with you, So I have a couple of things, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.800 but uh, similarly to you. Similarly uh oh, here we go. 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:21.000 Uh. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:27.760 It's like a noise thing, like an ambulance crossing close by, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:29.960 Like I plugged my ears like a five year old. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:30.600 I can't take it. 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.800 How about his new ambulance sirens are like who? I've 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:36.279 heard those. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.159 I've heard those save bonkers. But if I'm on a 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.239 on a on a street and there's like a rush 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:46.120 of emergency services, I have to plug my ears. When 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.719 I'm using an airplane toilet, I have to plug my 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:54.880 ears for that that sucubus flush sound. Cannot hear it. 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.960 But those, I think are just like loud noises, which 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.760 is we'll see, isn't the same as mesa phone. The 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.040 closest I can come with mesophony as far as like 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:07.039 an emotional thing that really feels like it's connected to 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.840 my brain is hearing two kinds of music at the 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:15.320 same time. And it's when Ruby was growing up. It's 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.640 a big thing when like we'd be playing music and 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:20.960 she would come into the room with some dumb kid 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:25.200 toy that plays music, and it just it makes me 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.000 crazy and angry very fast. And it's clear it's not 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.520 just like, oh that annoys me. It's like a real thing. 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:33.760 You're like, I'm trying to listen to pavement. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.919 Yeah, but it triggers me in such a way that 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:43.039 I'm like, oh, I think I understand that neuro connective annoyance, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:44.800 which is not the same as just like I don't 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:45.359 like that sound. 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.719 So you has mesophonia. She's never been clinically diagnosed, but 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.320 she very much has it. Yeah, Oh yeah, for sure. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.200 It's like the orofacial stuff like chewing, that kind of stuff. 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.839 You're just now telling me that she's I know. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.640 It's just fun to sit back and observe when you 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.360 guys are all in the same room together. Right, So 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:13.520 she has like I would say, maybe middling middling mesophonia. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.279 Okay, she can control it, but I think. 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.080 If there's like she's having a bad enough day, yeah, 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.720 or she's stressed or something like that and it's triggered, 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.120 she'd be more likely to be like can you chew 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.560 any louder or something like that. Right, But normally she 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.760 can like just kind of just chill and like deal 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.760 with it. But now that I've done the research, I'm like, man, 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.120 I like I feel for her more than I ever 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.240 had before as far as that stuff is concerned. And 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:40.680 it's not like this is news to me. Like I 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.680 knew she had mesophonia. I understand it, but just the 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.760 degree that it affects people. She just plays it really cool. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.720 And knowing now that what's going on inside of her 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.040 while she's playing it cool makes me never want to 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:58.279 eat around her again, just out of out of support. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.080 Yeah, well that's a that's whet be playing it cool 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.440 is the UMI way, So that doesn't surprise me. And see, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.080 you know you mentioned her if she's already anxious or 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.120 something about something else, like as we'll see, there are 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.440 comorbidities that can definitely make it worse. And I imagine 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.200 just being in an anxious state, like with anything else, 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.720 something annoying will could you know, push you over the edge? 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.640 Exactly, You're already right there. And yes, it's a it's 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.520 an emotional reaction, a profound emotional reaction. And you said 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.160 something else too that I think is worth worth really 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.640 kind of digging into for a second, Like you don't 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.280 like ambulances. Nobody likes the sound of ambulance. That ambulance 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:42.280 siren is designed to annoy you, to basically get you 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.280 out of the way, to catch your attention, right, but 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.160 not in a good way. They don't want you standing 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.880 around like jamming out to the siren something. Right, So 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:54.200 that makes sense someone chewing. The sound of someone chewing 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.640 doesn't send the average person into a state of like 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:03.320 anger or in severe cases like rage. Yeah, you know 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.280 where you're yelling at the other person because they're chewing 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.880 like a normal person. That's really where mesophonia begins, where 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:15.000 just a sound that wouldn't really upset anybody else really 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:15.640 affects you. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.760 Yeah. Absolutely, And we heard from the reason. I mean, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:22.560 we're getting to it kind of late. But when we 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.880 did our ASMR episode, we heard from a lot of 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:30.640 people with mesophonia that were like, hey, a lot of 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:32.800 this episode triggered me, and like, it's a real thing, 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.600 and I think we might have even poked fun at 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:39.839 it a little bit. And we're like even doings like 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.080 smacking sounds and things because we were oblivious at the 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.160 time to what a real thing it is. So we're 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:49.840 doing this to make up for that in a way. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.439 And we're not gonna give examples of sounds because we 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.560 do know that it's a serious thing. It's not something 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.440 to be made fun of. Our laughed at is to 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.360 be taken now rely. And that is part of the 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:08.960 history of mesophonia, and continuing history is clinicians basically being like, 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:11.800 I don't know what this is, but you learned to 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:12.960 deal with it. If you don't like the way your 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:13.840 husband choose. 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.200 Yeah, let's talk about history. One of the reasons why 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.360 people who finally go in to get diagnosed and treated 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:25.200 for mesophonia, one of the reasons they run into that 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.000 kind of thing. Their doctor might tell them just where 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.679 earplugs or get a hold of yourself or something like that, yeah, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.200 or their psychologists might be like, you clearly have other issues. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.760 This is just some symptom of it. Mesa phonia is 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:44.319 like a very new thing. It has no clinical definition anywhere. 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.120 Apparently there was a committee that got together as recently 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:56.680 as like, I think two thousand, fourteen, fifteen sixteen, very recently, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:57.280 I don't know. 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:02.520 No, twenty twenty two was when the expert committee got okay, yeah. 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:09.000 So during COVID that's how recent this was. Time now exactly, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:10.800 They're like, I guess we'll get around to it. But 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.400 they finally said, Okay, this is a thing. This is 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.240 what this thing is, it consists of, and this is 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.320 how we think maybe you could conceivably treat it. It's 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.640 that new. It was only back in two thousand and 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.400 one that it was first described. Two thousand and one, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.080 the twenty first century, it's like a brand new disorder. 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.160 Yeah. In two thousand and one, that was when a 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.240 couple that is going to figure pretty heavily in this one, 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:39.439 because they were sort of the ogs, Powell and Margaret Jastreboff. 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:44.240 They were from Poland, the married couple. They were professors 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:50.559 of otto, laryn larryonology, laryngology. Yeah, jeez, I had it right. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.160 It sounds funny, that's a E and T study. Basically, 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.200 they were here at Emory, I guess in Atlanta, and 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:04.560 Powell was studying tenadus TRT, specifically tendus retraining therapy, and 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:09.600 Margaret she was studying cancer research. But I was like, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.880 I'm also involved in this tenantus thing, and we're both 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:17.640 going all in. It's two thousand and one on what 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:23.719 did they call the grouping over sensitive hearing well Decreased 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:30.640 sound tolerance conditions DST conditions, which at the time included hyperacusis, 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:35.680 phonophobia with a B and then misophonia with an N. 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:38.520 Yeah, that's a lot of info. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:39.920 It is a lot of info. 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:41.680 And by the way, I can just hear you saying 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.520 like I had a bout of tenidus while I was 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:50.360 getting it to two. I'm going with tonitis, all right. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.880 I'm also going with Pavel because differ from poland, so 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.160 I think his name's Pavel. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.559 It was a w A I think, so, yeah, you're 0:11:58.559 --> 0:11:58.960 probably right. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.640 I think they actually spell vodka with the W over there. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.320 It's just off to be alive, right, So at first 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.160 they were saying like, Okay, there's all these things that 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:12.120 are kind of lumped together. Like you said, the DSTs 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.120 to decrease sound tolerance, and they can kind of present 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:20.240 in different ways. Hyperacusis is definitely its own thing. They 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.320 think that maybe something happened to your ear, you damaged it. 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.640 There's a facial muscle that controls it, that controls like 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:32.679 how much your ear intensifies or amplifies a sound, and 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.280 if that muscle is damaged, this sound is going to 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.800 just come raging through your brain. So if you hear 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.079 somebody typing on a keyboard, you might have to crawl 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:41.760 under your desk and want to die. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.280 It seems like really loud, though not annoying exactly. I mean, 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.720 I'm sure it's annoying, but it's it's the decibel level 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:49.280 is the issue. 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.720 Yeah, it seems to have more of a produce, more 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.360 of a physical reaction than just an emotional reaction. And 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.680 if it is an emotional reaction, that seems to be 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.480 more like suffering than rage. Yeah, phone of phobia. They 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.000 were like, okay, that's a separate thing too for now. 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.840 And that is a fear of loud sounds. And the 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.240 reason that it's a phobia is because you're afraid of 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.080 loud sounds. That can't actually hurt you, like the sound 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.640 of traffic or the sound of emergency services. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.440 Yeah, an ambulance or something like toilet and a plane. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.920 So if you felt fear while you were plugging your 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.599 ears and maybe even ran away, you would probably have phonophobia. 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:28.880 No, it doesn't reach those levels. It's just it bothers me. 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.400 And I'm not afraid to look like a five year 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:31.080 old in public. 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:37.040 Okay, Man, I want to see that so bad. I'm surprised. 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:38.680 I surely I've done that in front of you. 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.400 Maybe not, I've not seen it. I would definitely remember. 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.160 I mean, I know one thing, we've never been in 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:44.280 an airplane bathroom together. 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.320 Do you know what I'm going to That's true. You 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.000 know what I'm going to do is next time we're 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:49.959 on tour and we're hanging out backstage, I'm going to 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.120 start a fire right and sit around and wait for 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:53.720 the show. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.679 That's a great idea, Okay. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.880 And then there's mesophonia too, which is the topic of 0:13:58.920 --> 0:13:59.679 this episode. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.160 Yeah, And I think they went on, you know, kind 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.160 of studying that stuff for about a dozen years, and 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.560 then in twenty fourteen is when they said, and this 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:15.760 is the couple the Jasper boffs, Yeah, yst Or, it's 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:17.280 probably yastrobof. 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.880 Uh pavel yastra bof is what I'm going with. 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.360 That sounds so much better than Powell yasterbof, Jester bof 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:28.880 Jasper Bof. Anyway, they got together in twenty fourteen and said, dear, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:34.120 I think we should reorganize this stuff. And Margaret said, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.040 don't call me dear. We're in a professional environment. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:37.840 Also, could you choose any louder? 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.560 Could you to any louder? And they said, let's just 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.280 reorganize our taxonomy here. And I believe what they did 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:51.000 was they tucked the phobia under phonophobia under mesophonia and 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:55.280 basically said there's pretty much two things, hyperacusis or mesophonia, 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.360 with phonophobia underneath phonia. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.960 Yeah, you kind of touched on the distinction between them two. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.920 Hyperacusis is some sort of mechanical issue. They think it's 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.200 not in the brain. It's just like the sound itself 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.560 is being delivered to your brain way louder than it 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.560 is to other people for some reason. But with mesophone 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:18.400 and phonophobia, the research seems to strongly suggest that not 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:24.240 only does it have a neurobiological a brain basis. It 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.160 also may even have a genetic basis as well. They're 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.400 starting to figure out. So it is definitely something going 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.480 on with your neurology. And again, just in twenty twenty two, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.600 they finally created a diagnostic definition of mesophonia. So it's 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:43.040 we have no idea what actually causes mesophonia, but the 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.200 studies that are out are pretty interesting and they seem 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.960 to point to something that I'll point it out when 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.000 we get to it, but I think it's it's the 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.320 smoking gun. It's the reason for mesophonia. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.720 If you ask me, ooh, well, that sounds like a 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:56.480 fun cliffhanger. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:57.360 Oh, I agree. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.800 All right. Well, you know they say, if you introduce 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.680 this smoking gun and Act one, you have to fire 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:02.360 it and Act three. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:03.880 That's right. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.040 So we'll be back right after this commercial break. 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:28.600 Earning stuff from Josh stuff you shout, all. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.040 Right, so we're back talking to me siphonia. One thing 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:36.440 we should mention is, as the yastrobros there are in there, 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.520 what is going on with me? The yastroboffs, we're doing 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.960 their work. It started to become a just a more 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.120 known thing on the internet in twenty eleven. That was 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.880 a New York Times article by Joyce Cohen that sort 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.640 of got it out there in a more public way. 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.040 The growth of Internet forums and Reddit and stuff like that, 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.400 all of a sudden, people are getting online and saying 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.600 in the twenty and saying like, hey, wait a minute, 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.760 like I've been living this my whole life, no one's 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.159 ever taken me seriously. And that's kind of one It 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.040 can be one of the great things about the Internet 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.920 is bringing people together for a common ailment that had 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:13.680 not previously been taken seriously. 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.680 Yeah, for sure. That Joyce Cohen New York Times article 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.680 from twenty eleven, by the way, is called when a 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.520 chomp or a slurp is a trigger for outrage, and it, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.520 like you said, it really helped a lot of people. Right, 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.600 So flash forward to twenty twenty two, we've got the 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.639 diagnostic kind of definition of it. And what they figured 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.200 out is that when you have a about of mesophonia, 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.800 when you're triggered to sound triggers you not only do 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:48.240 you have like an emotional reaction. Typically it's anger, anxiety, disgust, 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.600 and again, like this is a pronounced emotional reaction. It's 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.960 not like you're just kind of a little annoyed, like 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:56.000 you're disgusted. 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:56.359 There was. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.800 Olivia helped us with this and she turned up I 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:03.840 think on a Reddit board that somebody who if you 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.800 heard the sound of somebody clipping their toenails, Oh god, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.359 I'm so disgusted that you would not be able to 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.760 like drink coffee even twenty minutes later. 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.000 Yeah, stuff like that. I like that one. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.879 So that's discussed. But I think the kind of the 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.320 classic emotion is rage or anger usually associated with it. Like, 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.399 so in addition to the emotional component, there's also a 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.880 physical component too, And like it's been documented, these things 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.880 happen to your body when you're suffering about a misophonia. 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.680 Yeah, and they sort of smack of sorry, I don't 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.879 even know if these words trigger like the trump smack. 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:39.439 Yeah, probably so I. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.879 Didn't mean to say that, but you know, like anxiety, 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.840 it sort of mirrors anxiety. Your blood pressure might go up, 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.640 you might start sweating, you might get tightness in the chest, goosebumps. 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.000 I think I said heart rate, and it's it's not 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.280 necessarily you know, it kind of depends on the person 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.840 as to whether or not there's a single trigger that 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.399 affects you or whether you have a lot of them. 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:06.880 It's not always the same in everybody, and it's there's 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:11.720 also behavioral responses like like you said, like if maybe 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.520 you mean was having a particularly bad day, she might 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.359 be glaring at you from across the dinner table and 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.760 you're like, you know, stop with the fork in your mouth, 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:21.399 and you're like, what what of. 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.800 Course chunk of spaghetti hanging out of the side. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.080 Of my mouth, now you know what? 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.440 Yes, And I knew what before, but again, like I 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.600 just did not. I hadn't done the research, I hadn't 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.800 been around it long enough. I've never met anybody with 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.320 it before. So yes, I was gosh, man, I guess 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.320 I wasn't a very good husband for a little while there. 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.399 No, you were fine. You just didn't know. We're all 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.159 we're all better people now than we were when we 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:46.960 got together. 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.080 That's true. That's true. I like to think that too, Chuck. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.720 But it can lead to, like you said, ragy episodes, 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.639 and it's pretty rare, but it can lead to actual 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:03.240 like violence, feelings, self harm. I think they've documented that 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:08.359 that's almost always isolated to cases where people have, you know, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.240 some other mental condition that is comorbid with like it 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.080 maybe a last draw kind of thing, but it can 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.040 you know, it's again just more than an annoyance, and 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:18.800 I think that's probably the name of this episode. 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.520 I think you're right, you hit upon it. There's also 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.800 some other things that studies have turned up. They found 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:30.240 that people with mesophonia don't respond to loud noises any 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:35.480 different typically than other people. So somebody with mesophonia probably 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.040 wouldn't respond with a a mesophonia response to those ambulance sirens, right, 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:47.360 it's more usually kind of softer, probably wet or something 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.399 like that sounds. I'm sorry, I'm really trying not to, 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.880 but that would make sense why the ASMR episode set 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.119 so many people off, because it's exactly those kind of 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.840 like soft sounds. Like that's why if somebody's like, can 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.879 you tune me louder, You're like, I'm not doing anything unusual, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:10.280 but you're making a soft sound, and that is what 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.120 they hone in on. So there's no difference between someone 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.120 with mesophonia and someone without it as far as loud 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.880 sounds go. It's where the softer sounds are, and then 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:24.280 other sounds that upset most people. Again, this ambulance siren 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:26.480 siren Well is still very deep. I'm going to go 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.159 back to it again, okay, But also like a baby 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.040 crying or something like that, who wants to hear that? Nobody, 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.200 and that includes people with mesophonia, but that doesn't necessarily 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.520 trigger rage in them or mesophonia. 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.840 Yeah, And you know, in cases of baby's crying, even 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.080 if you don't have mesophonia, a lot of times that 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.920 is coupled with lack of sleep from new parents, and 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.920 it can get pretty severe. I mean, we were lucky 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.680 with the sleep situation, but I've heard horror stories of 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.440 new parents who are getting you know, three hours of 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:02.240 sleep a night and a colicky. It's just it's terrible. 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.320 You know, I feel so much, have so much empathy 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:09.440 for those situations. But back to mesophonia, I guess I 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:12.440 was just sympathizing for a minute. If we're going to 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:18.400 talk about how many people have this, the Yastrabofs did 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.720 a I guess, just sort of a a round guess 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:27.359 of three point two percent in twenty fourteen, but they 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:30.879 based that on people who came in seeking treatment that 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:35.920