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Speaker 1: Brandon Bang and I Am Rapport Stereo Podcast Special Special

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Speaker 1: Excellent I Am Rap Report Stereo Podcast. Today on the

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Speaker 1: im Rap Report Stereo Podcast, I am joined by John Spencer.

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Speaker 1: He is the chair of Urban Warfare Studies of the

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Speaker 1: Modern War at West Point and spent twenty five years

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Speaker 1: of active duty in the United States Army. His knowledge

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Speaker 1: and experience makes him a top expert in the field,

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Speaker 1: and he has joined us to discuss everything Israel, Hamas,

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Speaker 1: Gaza and beyond from a technical modern warfare point of view.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to have him on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to share his knowledge, his studies,

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Speaker 1: his information with you guys. Please please take some time

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Speaker 1: and listen to this I Am Rap Reports Stereo podcast

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Speaker 1: and like always, but more importantly than a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: tell a friend to tell a friend about this particular episode.

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Speaker 1: With John Spencer of d im Rap Report Stereo Podcast,

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Speaker 1: Miles Jordan Ak the Bleach.

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Speaker 2: Brother, is Ak the Just Brother. Start this puppy off

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Speaker 2: with something real nice.

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Speaker 1: Start this puppy off with something real out, but most importantly,

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Speaker 1: start this I Am Rapp Reports Stereo Podcast off with

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Speaker 1: something real funky.

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Speaker 3: Let's go.

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Speaker 1: All right, I'm rap Wort stereo podcast with John Spencer.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time to join me.

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Speaker 3: John.

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Speaker 1: I did a little explanation of who you are and

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Speaker 1: why it was so important and exciting and imperative to

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Speaker 1: have you on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: But can you explain what you do and who you are?

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Speaker 3: I'll try and, like my ex wife said, I can talk,

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Speaker 3: so you'll cut me off. So I researched war. I

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Speaker 3: spent twenty five years in the active Army myself, with

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Speaker 3: two combat deployments to Iraq. I did the invasion and

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Speaker 3: I went later at the height of the secretarian violence.

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Speaker 3: But I've been researching urban war as in combat happening

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Speaker 3: in urban areas for over a decade. Worked in the

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Speaker 3: Pentagon as an advisor for a four star stood up

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Speaker 3: a research center at West Point, the United States Military Academy,

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Speaker 3: where I was teaching strategy, but we also created the

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Speaker 3: Modern War Institute to go out and study modern wars.

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Speaker 3: In twenty eighteen, I retired from active duty but kept

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Speaker 3: researching war. Now that's all I do is I travel

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Speaker 3: around the world. I went into Nagarna Karabak in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: I went into the Ukraine, war four times since the invasion.

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Speaker 3: I've gone into Gaza three times since October seventh. I

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Speaker 3: research and then write about wars. I do a lot

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Speaker 3: of case studies, explaining to people what happened in the past,

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Speaker 3: try to help people understand what's happening now, as I

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Speaker 3: have kind of a I call it a dream job

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Speaker 3: for myself, because we actually don't have the profession of

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Speaker 3: going into war zones to understand them. There's a long

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Speaker 3: reason of why, but it's hard to summarize all I do.

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Speaker 3: I have my own podcasts as well because I'm a

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Speaker 3: lifelong learner, and one of the reasons that I've been

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Speaker 3: studying Israel for so long for years is because I

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Speaker 3: study urban war and underground warfare for tunnels. So I've

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Speaker 3: been going to Israel for years studying everything from the

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Speaker 3: Second Antifada, the Battles of Janine and Novelists, the seventy

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Speaker 3: three War, the Battle of Suwias City, and the unique

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Speaker 3: aspects of the idea tunnels in Northern Israel and Southern

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Speaker 3: Israel the whole gamut, because they're uniquely, unfortunately faced with

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Speaker 3: frequent occurrences of wars and very contested urban battles so

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Speaker 3: when the October seventh invasion happened, I already had connections,

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Speaker 3: already had an understanding of the idea and of the

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Speaker 3: challenges they were going to face.

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Speaker 1: I usually don't. That's great, I mean, this is all fantastic.

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Speaker 1: I usually don't put a date when I'm recording a podcast,

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Speaker 1: but I am going to date this podcast. We're recording

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Speaker 1: this on August twentieth, twenty twenty four. And the reason

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Speaker 1: why I'm articulating the date, which I don't normally do,

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Speaker 1: is because everything is happening so fast and information, you know,

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Speaker 1: situations are moving at rapid speed, probably more rapid than

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Speaker 1: ever because of the news and the information and the

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Speaker 1: Twitter and the X and there's so many people sharing

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Speaker 1: information and disinformation. In the last few hours, the bodies

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Speaker 1: of six Israeli civilians who were kidnapped on October seventh

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Speaker 1: were recovered in Conunis. You mentioned that you were in Communists.

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Speaker 1: When you were in Conunis, what did you see, what

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Speaker 1: is it like? What did you witness? Describe what communist

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Speaker 1: is like? Because I've never heard of con Unists. I

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Speaker 1: never mentioned Conmunists before October seventh, So can you explain

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Speaker 1: what you saw.

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Speaker 3: Sure, and this has been much of the world's basically

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Speaker 3: getting everything wrong, like literally everything from Gaza being the

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Speaker 3: most densest place on earth. And I study cities for

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Speaker 3: a living as well. And it's not even on you know,

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Speaker 3: it's not in the top one hundred, it's but even

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Speaker 3: understanding that it's not one continuous urban area, right, there's

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Speaker 3: twenty four major cities, con Unists being one of those hubs,

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Speaker 3: actually one of those central hubs for the Hamas leadership.

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Speaker 3: I went into Communists with interestingly, with the ninety eighth Division,

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Speaker 3: who is the division who did this operation that we're

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Speaker 3: talking about that recovered the six bodies and brought them home.

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Speaker 3: I was with them and with the general who is man.

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Speaker 3: They should make a movie about that general, a former

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Speaker 3: Israeli Navy seal who they made a division commander and

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Speaker 3: has been kicking butt since October seventh, to include on

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Speaker 3: October seventh, General Goldfuss. But I was there in Conunis

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Speaker 3: in February during some of the major operations to clear it.

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Speaker 3: I saw, I mean, just challenges. Even as a guy

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Speaker 3: who's walked the ground of many wars and battles, has

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Speaker 3: studied urban combat, I saw, you know, buildings eight stories tall.

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Speaker 3: Where I was actually at in Conunists. The division commander

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Speaker 3: took me out to talk to the brigade and company commanders.

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Speaker 3: They were searching for a tunnel, which is a tunnel

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Speaker 3: guy trying to understand, like the fact that you could

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Speaker 3: once you enter Gaza there is likely a tunnel underneath you,

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Speaker 3: you just don't know it. So we were actually in communists,

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Speaker 3: deep in Communists, and he brought me to a unit

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Speaker 3: and the engineer battalion was looking for a tunnel that

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Speaker 3: they believed was connected to this mosque, and we were

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Speaker 3: standing on top of this area where they were searching

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Speaker 3: for it by drilling into the ground, one of the

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Speaker 3: ways they do it, and a few hours later they

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Speaker 3: found the tunnel. So I was standing on top of

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Speaker 3: an enemy tunnel that they had not yet found. I

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Speaker 3: of course saw the remnants of the high intensity urban

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Speaker 3: battles that they were having with hamas the fact that

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Speaker 3: every other building was an explosive or used to fight

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Speaker 3: the ideaf In the in conmunists. I also talked through

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Speaker 3: the commander about all the measures they were doing to

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Speaker 3: prevent civilian harms despite the misinformation of the world how

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Speaker 3: they had cleared it, how they had used facial recognition

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Speaker 3: to get the HAMAS members trying to leave with the

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Speaker 3: civilians that they're trying to get out of harm's way.

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Speaker 3: I learned about how they were strict being their movements,

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Speaker 3: the Ideaf their day, do daily pauses like four hour

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Speaker 3: pauses since November when they entered daily pauses to allow

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Speaker 3: civilians to move, to allow humanitarian aid to get in.

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Speaker 3: I'm like drinking from a fire hose every time I

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Speaker 3: go into Gaza, not just for my own research, as in, like,

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Speaker 3: how are you doing this? How are you figuring out

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Speaker 3: a way despite this international condemnation where they're at this point,

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Speaker 3: This is when the US was saying, you know, the

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Speaker 3: appropriate number of civilian casualties is zero. So talking through

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Speaker 3: the division commander, like, well, how are you moving forward

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Speaker 3: and destroying Hamas with near zero civilian casualties? And he

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Speaker 3: talked about elements of surprise. One of the things that

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Speaker 3: blew my mind, and it really hasn't been reported. You

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Speaker 3: know the tunnels, right, So there's four hundred miles of tunnels, right,

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Speaker 3: so bigger than the New York subway system, the London

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Speaker 3: Metro all these how do you deal with That has

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Speaker 3: been a big chanceallenge for the IDEF and would have

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Speaker 3: been a challenge for any military, especially one without the

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Speaker 3: capabilities of the IDF, which have a more than the

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Speaker 3: US military have, like special units, dogs and what they

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Speaker 3: call the Yahalom, the weasels. But they were seding the

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Speaker 3: ground to the enemy because the enemy was just booby

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Speaker 3: trapping the tunnels that they found well a ninety eighth

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Speaker 3: division and other the IDEF figured out that they needed

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Speaker 3: to get into the tunnels before Hamas knew they were there.

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Speaker 3: So in conmunists, they were using these elements of surprise

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Speaker 3: to maneuver on the surface and underground at the same time.

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Speaker 3: But to be frank the balls, you had to have

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Speaker 3: to enter an enemy's tunnel and move on him without

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Speaker 3: him knowing it. At the same time moving on the

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Speaker 3: surface has never been tried before by no military. So

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Speaker 3: I kept getting my mind blown on how the IDEF

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Speaker 3: was figured out how still destroying the enemy taking what

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Speaker 3: they value, which is this ideal that they're going to

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Speaker 3: survive this war away from them despite all the constraints

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Speaker 3: that have been placed on the idea.

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Speaker 1: So I knew this conversation was going to be challenging

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Speaker 1: because there's so much information and so many questions that

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Speaker 1: I have. You say, there's four hundred miles of tunnels, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Now I imagine that if somebody works in the subway system

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Speaker 1: of New York, they don't know every single route. I

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Speaker 1: mean maybe if they study it they do. How much

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Speaker 1: information knowledge details did the IDEF have of these four

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Speaker 1: hundred miles of tunnels and did they think it was

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Speaker 1: two hundred miles, Did they think it was one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty miles or did they always know it was

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Speaker 1: four hundred miles They just didn't know that or imagine

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Speaker 1: that they'd be fighting in these tunnels.

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Speaker 3: So it's a great question. And as somebody who was

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Speaker 3: studying tunnels and writing about tunnels before this, I mean

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Speaker 3: I did an underground Warfare conference in Israel with what

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Speaker 3: used to be called idc Hrchileia now Reichman University, back

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Speaker 3: in like twenty eighteen. I went into Hesibal tunnels in

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Speaker 3: the north and Hamas tunnels in the south. No, they

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Speaker 3: did not know that there were four hundred miles. Much

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Speaker 3: of the estimates were like three hundred miles, both from Hamas,

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Speaker 3: who would publicly tell the world we have this much

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Speaker 3: and IDEF sources. But this is again going back to

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Speaker 3: the Israel did disengage from Gaza in two thousand and

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Speaker 3: five and because of Hamas coming to power the rockets

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Speaker 3: put up the wall. There is an element even though

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Speaker 3: Israel has immense amounts of intelligence collection capabilities that you

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Speaker 3: just can't know. So, yes, they knew Hamas was digging tunnels.

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Speaker 3: They knew where some of the tunnels that Hamas was digging.

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Speaker 3: There are many reasons for even in the operation in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, twenty fourteen, twenty twenty one, which

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Speaker 3: I visited right after the operation to called Guardian of

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Speaker 3: the Wall twenty twenty one, where the IDEA were on

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Speaker 3: all these operations targeting the tunnels, and even in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one they thought they had destroyed a certain percentage

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Speaker 3: of Hamasa's tunnels through aerial bombardments. Hamas learned from that

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Speaker 3: and they put in more blast doors within the tunnels

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Speaker 3: that can stop the explosions. They put turns in their tunnels.

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Speaker 3: I think it might even be more than four hundred

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Speaker 3: at this point, Michael. But once the IDEAF moved into Gaza,

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Speaker 3: because some of this you just so. The tunnels ranged

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Speaker 3: from just below the surface, like underneath somebody's house, to

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Speaker 3: over two hundred feet underground, right about one hundred feet underground.

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Speaker 3: There's no way you can you can reach them, and

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Speaker 3: being able to detect them through aerial, through whatever, it's impossible.

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Speaker 3: So there is some of this element of no The

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Speaker 3: IDEAF didn't know how much tunnels were there. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think I was there in December, and I think

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Speaker 3: I think you might have been there when they discovered

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Speaker 3: that the res tunnel right one that was two and

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Speaker 3: a half miles long, one hundred and sixty feet underground.

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Speaker 3: You could drive trucks through it, and it went all

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Speaker 3: the way back into Gaza City and came up right

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Speaker 3: before the wall, right outside the risk humanitarian crossing point.

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Speaker 3: They knew about a tunnel being around that area, but

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Speaker 3: they didn't know the huge actual size of the tunnel.

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Speaker 3: They found tunnels Michael, that go now underneath the Wadi Gaza,

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Speaker 3: which is that river basin that splits north and west.

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Speaker 3: Nobody thought that was possible, and they found two over

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Speaker 3: mile long tunnels connecting North Gaza to South Gaza. You

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Speaker 3: can basically go into northern Gaza and come out in

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Speaker 3: Rafa basically, and that system wasn't all like the IDEF

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Speaker 3: didn't know and to be honest, they still don't know, right.

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Speaker 3: So this is as of this week, they're finding mile

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Speaker 3: long tunnels because they're at a depth that is impossible.

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Speaker 3: Some of the combat had has covered up tunnel interests

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Speaker 3: or shafts as we call them. I mean they found

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Speaker 3: over fifty now along the border with Egypt in the

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Speaker 3: Rafa area, something you can drive trucks through. This has

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Speaker 3: been the challenge of how do you fight in this environment?

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Speaker 3: And then what do you do about the tunnels once

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Speaker 3: you find them, right, because that's been a huge challenge

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Speaker 3: as well, like how do I even destroy these tunnels.

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Speaker 3: They've tried everything from you know, pumping in seawater and

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Speaker 3: fresh water to try to flood the tunnels using explosives.

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Speaker 3: It's a what we'll call a wicked problem. There's no

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Speaker 3: solution and the IDEAF are still searching daily for tunnels

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Speaker 3: and they have found many of the big important tunnels,

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Speaker 3: but they're still discovering them.

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Speaker 1: The bodies, I know, you probably don't have an answer

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Speaker 1: for this. The six civilians who were kidnapped and their

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Speaker 1: bodies were recovered in the last couple of hours.

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Speaker 2: I believe it was last week.

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Speaker 1: Another body was recovered and the body had been found

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Speaker 1: in a tunnel, but it was buried behind a wall.

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Speaker 1: How do they find these bodies? From what I understand

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Speaker 1: the one I mentioned about the one person civilian whose

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Speaker 1: body was recovered, someone who they had captured. Actually they

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Speaker 1: brought him there and he showed them where. Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: how are they getting this information? Are they getting it

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Speaker 1: from people they've captured? Is it just you happen upon it?

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Speaker 1: I know, you can't say for sure, but what is

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Speaker 1: the communication, Like, how is it working?

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Speaker 3: I can't say, you know, just like you understand, and

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Speaker 3: I only do what we call open, you know, unclassified research.

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Speaker 3: But the idea of and Israel has said that almost

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Speaker 3: all of the discoveries have happened through human intelligence, so

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Speaker 3: through information provided by Hamas combatants that have been captured

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Speaker 3: that they are told, well, you might want to go

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Speaker 3: back and look in this area, in this one, even

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Speaker 3: this one which there are some initial reports that wear

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Speaker 3: in communists. If you remember when the Humanitarian Zone the

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Speaker 3: album Waste Humanitarian Zone was expanded that this tunnel was

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Speaker 3: within the Humanitarian zone. So you get to like, why

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Speaker 3: do you why are we still discovering things? Because there

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Speaker 3: are areas that the idea of have not cleared because

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Speaker 3: Egypt said screw you to the world and he's not

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Speaker 3: going to let a single refugee into Egypt. That this

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Speaker 3: humanitarian zone is quite large, actually, and it was expanded

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Speaker 3: in order to allow the idea to evacuate temporarily evacuate

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Speaker 3: Rafa to be able to attack those combatants. But mostly

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Speaker 3: Mike was through human intelligence. It's not like discovery. Although

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Speaker 3: they've discovered thousands of tunnel shafts, but some of these

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Speaker 3: are so deep and so hidden that it takes being

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Speaker 3: on the ground and staying there like I was in

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Speaker 3: I just got back in July from the Netcherine Corridor,

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Speaker 3: which is this area near the Wadi Gaza that they're

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Speaker 3: creating through Central Gaza, and there's there's lots of tunnels

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Speaker 3: there that they know are there, but they haven't. They

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Speaker 3: have to exploit them and to determine the true depth

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Speaker 3: and then decide whether they destroyed them. It's a it's

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Speaker 3: a multi year process. But human intelligence, well all intelligence

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Speaker 3: drives operations, and people just seem to think that we

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Speaker 3: have this all seen eye above the world and you

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Speaker 3: know Israel space lasers and they can just figure it out. No,

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Speaker 3: it takes human intelligence in other forms of intelligence.

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Speaker 1: I first read an article that you had written or

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Speaker 1: was written about you, or is an interview with you

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Speaker 1: about the casualties, and it was like mind blowing because

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Speaker 1: the numbers that are being thrown around, they're not detailed.

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Speaker 1: They'll say at one point it was twenty thousand people

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Speaker 1: were killed in Gaza. Then they say it was twenty

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Speaker 1: five thousand people were killed in Gaza, and then they'll

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Speaker 1: say thirty thousand civilians were killed in Gaza, or sometimes

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Speaker 1: they'll just say forty thousand were killed in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: That's the most recent number.

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Speaker 1: And when you were articulating and asking for and discovering

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Speaker 1: the details and explaining the details of those numbers, it

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Speaker 1: like it was like, of course, Hamas has been killed.

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Speaker 1: Of course there's been civilians killed. Of course there's been

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Speaker 1: people that are not officially in Hamas that have been killed.

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Speaker 1: Of course old age has a factor. So can you

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Speaker 1: explain the myths, the misinformation, the disinformation of where we

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Speaker 1: are today in August twentieth and what you know about

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Speaker 1: the amount of casualties, who they are, what they are,

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Speaker 1: and how it's being distributed.

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Speaker 2: Because I have.

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Speaker 1: Articulated as much as I can that anything that comes

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Speaker 1: from Hamas is a lie, just like anything that would

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Speaker 1: come from John Wilkes Booth, Jeffrey Dahmer, Saddam Hussein or

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Speaker 1: any psychopathic person is going to be a fucking lie.

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Speaker 1: And it's impossible to believe the Ministry of Health from Gaza,

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Speaker 1: the Hamas Ministry of Health, which is the Gaza Ministry

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Speaker 1: of Health, it's impossible to believe. So can you explain

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Speaker 1: the casualties as of far as what you know today

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Speaker 1: August twentieth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's been a real big challenge because

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Speaker 3: unique to this war. Right, my business is studying war

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Speaker 3: and especially urban battles, and I can say very definitively

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Speaker 3: there's never been a battle or war in the history

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Speaker 3: of war where any nobody has had a civilian casually

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Speaker 3: account down to the single digit daily. But this global

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Speaker 3: terrorist organization has figured it out and is able to

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Speaker 3: give a daily death count and nobody asked, nobody asked

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Speaker 3: the question that you're asking me now, and I have

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Speaker 3: to explain it often because the world doesn't ask and

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Speaker 3: you have leaders of nations parenting the number from a

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Speaker 3: Hamas terrorist organization, and you can have your own opinions,

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Speaker 3: you can't have your own facts. Gaza Health Ministry is Hamas.

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Speaker 3: Hamas was the political wing controlling all institutions. And I

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Speaker 3: can say with also clarity that nobody in Gaza is

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Speaker 3: going to publicly make statements without knowing that Hamas has

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Speaker 3: to approve it or you're going to get swacked. But

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00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,959
Speaker 3: the number has taken this its own momentum, unquestioned. What

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00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 3: is the number, Where did it come from? Who gave it?

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Speaker 3: How verified?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 3: Yes? As of today, the Gaza Health Ministry of Hamas

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Speaker 3: or the Hamaski, however you want to say, it says

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Speaker 3: there are forty thousand Palestinians that have been killed and

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Speaker 3: that's what the international media say killed in Gaza since

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Speaker 3: October seventh. Well, that's a lie just by fact, even

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Speaker 3: if you well, if you're going to be accurate. One

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Speaker 3: did the numbers not accurate? We know that and I'm

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Speaker 3: going to tell you why. But to say forty thousand

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Speaker 3: people have died in Gaza since October seventh, but what

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Speaker 3: does the number include? Well, The number includes everybody who

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Speaker 3: has died for any reason in Gaza or Israel. Let's

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Speaker 3: be clear that the number actually includes Hamas and Palestinian

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Speaker 3: civilians who crossed into Israel on October seventh and did

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Speaker 3: all those horrible things. The number, if you don't know,

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Speaker 3: includes anybody that died on October seventh, committing in, raping, burning, mutilating,

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Speaker 3: everything that's part of the numbers. Set that aside. The

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Speaker 3: number includes anybody that's died for any reason. Yes, anybody

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Speaker 3: who's died of a natural cause goes on the list.

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Speaker 3: The actual what they say, the majority the number is

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Speaker 3: provided through the Gaza Health Ministries digital amazing impressive digital infrastructure,

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Speaker 3: which from the hospitals identifies a body in all its

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Speaker 3: information from the body and puts it on the list.

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Speaker 3: But actually the number includes way more of that, and

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Speaker 3: it doesn't say how the person died. Right, So if

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Speaker 3: you say Israel is the cause of all deaths and Gaza,

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Speaker 3: then you're a lying as well. Since of the thirteen

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Speaker 3: to fifteen thousand rockets that Hamas, Palatinian Islamic Jihad and

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Speaker 3: others have launched into Israel's civilian targeting civilian sites, all

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Speaker 3: war crimes. Over twenty percent of those rockets have landed

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Speaker 3: inside of Gaza, killing lots of Palestinian people. They're on

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Speaker 3: the list. Hamas themselves have killed a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: They're on the list. If it was just the number

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Speaker 3: of bodies, then then we could have that conversation. But

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Speaker 3: the list of forty thousand doesn't. It includes a lot

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Speaker 3: of double names, so people that are counted twice, people

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Speaker 3: who died a long time ago are on the list.

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Speaker 3: It includes which is really the thing that people try

378
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Speaker 3: to discount or they actually want you to believe that

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Speaker 3: there's more than forty thousand. Is that Hamas about three

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Speaker 3: months ago put out on their own messages in the

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Speaker 3: God's Health Ministry that of these numbers at the time,

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Speaker 3: it was like twenty five or thirty five thousand, eleven

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Speaker 3: thousand of these are unverified people as in not bodies

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Speaker 3: that have been seen. They believe that they're under the rubble.

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Speaker 3: The United Nations verified that as well. Like we say

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Speaker 3: about ten thousand, yes, we believe around the rubble. So well,

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Speaker 3: how do you know they're dead, Well they do it

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Speaker 3: through social media post So you're talking over ten thousand

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Speaker 3: plus names of this are people that they've collected off

390
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Speaker 3: of social media somebody has reported missing. The number also

391
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,719
Speaker 3: includes they have Google shared drives where you can go

392
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Speaker 3: on as in a Palaestine, you can go on insert

393
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: your martyr here and put the name of somebody. They

394
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Speaker 3: don't know where they are. They go on the list

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Speaker 3: as debt. So this is the element of but what

396
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Speaker 3: also goes on the list is of course Hamas combatants.

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Speaker 3: Like you talked about, there is no distinction distinguishing between

398
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Speaker 3: a HAMAS militant and a civilian. Even if it's a

399
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Speaker 3: civilian who is not formally on the named list of Hamas.

400
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: It also doesn't have the name of civilians who are

401
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Speaker 3: partaking in the hostilities.

402
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Speaker 1: That's what's really really frustrating that part there is that

403
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Speaker 1: they're acting like and I always say they, whether it's

404
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 1: the Ministry of Gaza Health, the media, whatever it is,

405
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: by not acknowledging any Hamas deaths, they're acting like Hamas

406
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Speaker 1: doesn't exist. They're not acknowledging that they even exist. Because

407
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: they're not acknowledging any deaths, they're like clamping them into

408
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Speaker 1: innocent civilians. And it's really really frustrating and it's confusing

409
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Speaker 1: and it's so misleading. I just wanted to just point

410
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Speaker 1: that part out, but keep going what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, John, Yeah, I mean I think that's a huge point,

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Speaker 3: of course, But then people kind of discount that, like, yeah,

413
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Speaker 3: but it's still this many tens of thousands that have

414
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Speaker 3: been killed. Like let's be words have matters. If you

415
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Speaker 3: believe the terrorist numbers, then you're saying have died, Okay,

416
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Speaker 3: how many were died of natural causes, how many were

417
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Speaker 3: killed by hamas, how many? But literally you'll have international

418
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Speaker 3: news say idea of kill forty thousand in Gaza, which

419
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Speaker 3: it's just not true.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And the thing that I've written about this as well

422
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Speaker 3: is like, Okay, I studied war. In war, there are

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Speaker 3: combatants and non combatants, and you can be a civilian,

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Speaker 3: non combatant protected and actually there's not one bit of

425
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Speaker 3: evidence of Israel targeting civilians period, not one bit of evidence.

426
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Speaker 3: But you can be a civilian and you can turn

427
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Speaker 3: yourself into combatant. And this is in the complexity of

428
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Speaker 3: urban warfare, where you have a a combatant like Amas

429
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Speaker 3: who wears civilians, uses human shields, and wants to get

430
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Speaker 3: as many civilians killed as possible to achieve their goals.

431
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Speaker 3: You can have civilians who are die that are you know,

432
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Speaker 3: actual non combatants, but are dying because of Hamas. But

433
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Speaker 3: you can also have civilians who turned themselves into combatants,

434
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: like the crazy story of Israel's wild hostage rescue operation,

435
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: Like you seene out of Fulda, historic entering enemy territory,

436
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: they know you're coming, and they rescue you know, the

437
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 3: four living hostages, and the media ran with one hundred

438
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: and five civilians killed, like, well, if you're a whole

439
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: a hostage and you you were a civilian, you're no

440
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 3: longer civilian. You're a combatant and I can kill you. Period.

441
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: That's I mean, these are very simple things to understand

442
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 3: in war, but the number has created and becomes its

443
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 3: own thing now right, take them completely out of context

444
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: of in lie. I mean, there is not forty thousand

445
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 3: people that have been killed and is highly highly unlikely

446
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 3: since there are double names on the list. There is

447
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: just missing people on the list. It's all a lie.

448
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: But at least if these people were honest, whether it's

449
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: mainstream media or political leaders, at least put the caveats

450
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: on there, say, you know, according to Hamas, God's of

451
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: health mystry or forty thousand reported dead or died or

452
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 3: whatever puts the caveats on there, but they'll do worse.

453
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: I'll say that Israel caused all these deaths, and if

454
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 3: Israel just stop all the Killian would stop.

455
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: POA. This is a two part question in regards to

456
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: this misleading misinformation over the casualties. Have you ever witnessed, understood,

457
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: studied anything like that? And the second part of the

458
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: question is how is this urban war different from other

459
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: urban wars that you've studied, like with Russian Ukraine? Are

460
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: they able to keep track? Is that part of the

461
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: reporting of Russian Ukraine? How many people have died? You know,

462
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: I don't understand, like you said, I don't understand how

463
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: they have You know, they'll have seven people died, one

464
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: hundred and nine people and they have it immediately. And

465
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: there was that report I didn't even remember when it

466
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: was in November the hospital was bombed and immediately, while

467
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: the fucking place is still on fire, five hundred people

468
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: died whatever they reported, And it turns out it's never that.

469
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: But has that been part of another war that you

470
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: that you're aware of. No.

471
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: I'll give you an example where there's one instance, and

472
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: oh weird, it was Al Jazeera. But there has never

473
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 3: been a war that you knew the number daily down

474
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 3: to the single digit or where there's never been a

475
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: war that I've ever studied where the world asked, well,

476
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 3: what's your civilian to combat and ratio? Because we haven't

477
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: talked about that yet, right, so you know the fact

478
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: that Israel says they've killed seventeen thousand combatants of your

479
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: fake number that you have, Israel says they've killed seven.

480
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: If we're going to take a terrorist number, why can't

481
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 3: we take Israel's number? But nobody's ever asked an a

482
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: war while it's happening, what's your civilian to combat and ratio?

483
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 3: And that really means whether we should allow you to continue?

484
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 3: Basically never happened because of the context of the way

485
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: the law of war works, proportionality, necessity, all of this.

486
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: It isn't quantitative, It isn't a number. Is are you

487
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: doing everything humanly possible to prevent civilian casualties? And I've

488
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: written those, as you know, articles on showing all the

489
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 3: things that the idea of and Israel are doing that

490
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: no military in the history of war have ever done.

491
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: To prevent civilian harm. But your question is has it

492
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 3: ever happened before? Not at this speed for sure. Now

493
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: we're getting down to and it's after that a Ali.

494
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: I can't say the name that hospital you're talking about,

495
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: where you know there was a report that Israel bomb

496
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: the hospital and it was a parking lot and it

497
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: was the palsying jihad. But and you think that the

498
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 3: world would learn when the Gazza Health Ministry emptied the

499
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 3: hospital Morgan and I don't know if you've seen this picture,

500
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 3: and it held a press conference that night with bodies

501
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: to include men holding the body of children all around

502
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: this doctor of Hamas saying that the number was in

503
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: the five hundred, seven hundred and winter around the world.

504
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: That you think the world would learn, But now it's

505
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: actually gotten worse because now every day you see and

506
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: they know the number within hours that's never happened where

507
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 3: you have a strike or an operation and from within

508
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: the combat area you know the exact number of civilian casualties.

509
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 3: And they're all civilians right there. None of them are

510
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: combatants that somebody was targeting. Israel is targeting nothing. So

511
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: it's now we're in a new space where they know

512
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: the number within hours, and it runs around the world

513
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: by international news. There's no fact checking, and they might

514
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 3: say Gaza sources report, like who is your Gaza source?

515
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 3: It is Hamas. There was one instance back in the

516
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: day in the First Battle of Fallujah. I don't know

517
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: if you remember that in April of two thousand and four,

518
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 3: four American citizens contractors were killed, burned, dismembered and hung

519
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: from the city bridge and went around the world. So

520
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: the US did an operation to get those who did

521
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 3: the attack, and Al Jazeera was sitting at the hospital

522
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 3: airing photos of children that had gotten harmed and coming

523
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 3: up with a number a number of civilian casualties, and

524
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: it caused the US military to be defeated in the

525
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: First Battle of Lujah, and the six days into the

526
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: battle they had to stop because politically the Iraqi government

527
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: was going to disband and a bunch of issues. I

528
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: call that the Fallujah effect. But what we've seen on Gaza,

529
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: it's a whole different level to in clue. Which is

530
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: really messed up is that the world. I was hearing

531
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: it last night. It's a very big conference that the

532
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 3: world just parrots the number provided by Hamas. No matter

533
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 3: what it is the fact that it has tens of

534
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: thousands of missing people, double names, people died of natural causes,

535
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: and they run with it to invoke emotion that Israel

536
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: is doing something intentionally illegal, disproportionate when it's all a lie.

537
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 3: So let me answer the second question, Mike on the

538
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: urban battles that happened in Gaza, has enba ever had

539
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 3: I've written this too, is like where everybody wants something

540
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: to compare it to. There's nobody that has faced the

541
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: challenges that the idea have faced in Gaza. Let alone.

542
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 3: This Israeli standard that they're held to, it's not a

543
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 3: law of war standard, it's an Israeli standard. I've come

544
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: to find that out, like it's not a standard that

545
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 3: Western militaries are held to. It's just crazy Israeli standard.

546
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 3: But just the context of the military challenge, So over

547
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty hostages, a combatant of forty thousand

548
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: plus militants who had prepared urban defenses for fifteen years,

549
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: with four hundred miles of tunnels or launching rockets over

550
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: the heads of the military. Nobody has faced this challenge

551
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 3: at the scale and complexity that the idea had to

552
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: face to achieve their goals. I found one example that

553
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: I talk about often from the Battle of Vanilla, but

554
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 3: really nobody has faced this level of a militant military.

555
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: This is again, Hamas is not a resistance force. For

556
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 3: damn sure, it's not an insurgency, it's not. Yes they're terrorists,

557
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: but it's not a terror force in somebody else's land.

558
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 3: It was a military who had prepared its cities for

559
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: war for over fifteen years billions of dollars, rather than

560
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 3: investing in you know, water, desalination, sewage, anything for the people.

561
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: It's spent billions of dollars because we didn't that How

562
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: much does it cost to build a four hundred mile

563
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 3: tunnel network underneath your civilian cities? It costs billions of dollars.

564
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: And this is the other aspect difference with other wars.

565
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 3: And you ask me, like Russia Ukraine numbers, no nobody knew.

566
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 3: In the matter of fact, we still don't know how

567
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 3: many people died in like the Battle of Mariopal because

568
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 3: Russia doesn't give access to people and they're not going

569
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: to give you a number. But the one element is

570
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 3: that in other wars, civilians So this is the ideal

571
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: that we think Hamas are some type of good guys. Right,

572
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 3: if you're one of these pro Hamas waving the flag

573
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 3: in America, people, you think that Hamas just wants you know,

574
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 3: it just wants self determination, it wants freedom, it wants

575
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 3: its own, you know, for its people to have equal

576
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: rights and prosper like you live in La la land.

577
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 3: Because Hamas never has said that. And one of the

578
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 3: examples is that of the two point two million Palestinian

579
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: people in Gaza at the start of Hamas's war when

580
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 3: it invaded Israel, all two point two million could fit

581
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: in Hamas's tunnels with ease. And in other worlds you

582
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 3: see that, right, Why does Israel have bomb shelters? Why

583
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 3: does the s in Ukraine go into the tunnels as

584
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 3: Russia is attacking because it's where you stay protected. And

585
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 3: not one civilian well, actually there are a few civilians

586
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 3: that have been allowed in Hamas's tunnels that they're actually

587
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: the family members of this rat Yaar Sinmoar. But other

588
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 3: than that, not a single civilian is allowed in masses tunnels.

589
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: Do you think that the IDF knows where Sinoar is?

590
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: I mean, with all these tunnels it's been ten plus months,

591
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: all the information they've been down there, do you think

592
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: they know? My theory is that they know where he is.

593
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: This is what I hope that is happening. That they

594
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: know where he is and they just can't eliminate him

595
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: because he's surrounded by hostages. Is that like hopes and dreams,

596
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: like you know.

597
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 3: It could be? I think it's so. I don't deal

598
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: so I try to deal with like likelihoods because you know,

599
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 3: we just don't know. I think it's highly unlikely. Understanding

600
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 3: even with the the crazy operations that the idea of

601
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 3: have been able to pull off on killing Muhammad deaf Right,

602
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: the founder of Hamasa's military guy who has been hidden

603
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 3: for decades, and to be able to get to and

604
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: kill that guy, to kill you know, Haniah, you know

605
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: whether it was done or not. I personally my opinion

606
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 3: is that they don't know where he's at, that he's

607
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 3: hiding within the humanitarian zones. I think he's still in Gaza.

608
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: I do believe, yes, that he is protecting himself with hostages,

609
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 3: but I don't I personally understanding how this is the

610
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 3: the ideal of how powerful you think the idea and

611
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: israel is an intelligence. While they have done some crazy

612
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 3: historic stuff, I personally don't think that they have that level.

613
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 3: They don't know right now. This is like the example

614
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 3: of even though they're there right So this is, you know,

615
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: if you count up all the divisions currently in Gaza

616
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 3: for many reasons, to include inter national condemnation saying you

617
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 3: can't go into Rafa, you can't use that much force. Technically,

618
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 3: if you count up all the divisions, there's only about

619
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 3: three divisions actively in Gaza right now. That's thirty thousand soldiers.

620
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 3: And again how you count it up? But three divisions

621
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 3: thirty thousand and if you drive as you have like

622
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 3: the two five to two, and how the stretch of

623
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 3: Gaza which is twenty five miles. But when you go

624
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: in there again that's when I went into communist and

625
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 3: look around at the density of the urban areas in

626
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: some areas, it's like the idea that you could have

627
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 3: this all seen eye with that limited amount of force,

628
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 3: even though you can see stuff from above. But this

629
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: is again four hundred miles of tunnels. Why can we

630
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: have a video of yah Yah the rat walking through

631
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: the tunnels of con Unis back in like October November

632
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: Time Primer. I don't know if you've seen that video, but.

633
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did.

634
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: I think he's he is surrounded by the humanitarian zone,

635
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: has hostages with him. But I don't think the idea

636
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 3: of know where he is exactly, but I could be wrong.

637
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: The term human shields has been You've mentioned it already,

638
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: you know, when we're talking about Israel, we're talking about Hamas.

639
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: You know, it keeps coming up. Hamas uses human shields.

640
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: Hamas uses human shields, and some people, you know, think, oh,

641
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: what do they do? They you know, like actually have

642
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: like a person in front of them, Like, what does

643
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: that mean?

644
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: They use human shields? What does it mean? In every

645
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 2: single way possible.

646
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I actually teach a course, the only course

647
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 3: in the world at a certain level, to teach the

648
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 3: military's urban warfare and large scale operations. And I was

649
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: using Hamas as an example of human shields, as in

650
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 3: it's a practice of where a combatant who doesn't follow

651
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 3: the law of war will put civilians in front of

652
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: them like a shield, but not like physically in front

653
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 3: of them, although they do that as well, but put

654
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: them in front of them because they are a protective population.

655
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 3: So that the attacking military has to constrain itself where

656
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 3: it goes, what weapons it uses, what tactics is uses,

657
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 3: because the combatant is hiding behind or underneath, in Hamas's case,

658
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 3: behind the civilians. It's usually combined with what we call lawfare,

659
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: where you know, in the law of war you have

660
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 3: protected population as the civilians. You can't target civilians. You

661
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 3: have to do what it's called a proportionality assessment of

662
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 3: even if you know the enemy is there, it has

663
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 3: the amount of civilians that become cloudal damage has to

664
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 3: be proportionate to the military advantage of the military thing

665
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: you're targeting. But there's also protected sites like why did

666
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: Hamas turn every hospital everyone in Gaza into a military

667
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 3: headquarters because they're protected and the idea of can't strike

668
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: them without doing these you know, notifications and taking all

669
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 3: these precautions. That whole practice is what's called human shields,

670
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: where they're put the humans, their populations in front of

671
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 3: them so that the other military can't target, can't use

672
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 3: certain tools. You know, has to constrain themselves find a

673
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 3: different way. It's a war crime. But Michael, I want

674
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 3: to explain to you that yeah, isis al Qaeda. You

675
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 3: just name the terrorists, shithead. They all use human shields.

676
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 3: But Hamas does something that I've never seen a combat

677
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 3: and do, and that's to use human sacrifice. Because even

678
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 3: when you're using a human shield, you're not physically holding

679
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: them in front of you. Sometimes they will in like

680
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 3: a mass protest or like humanitarian aid delivery, so you

681
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: can't target the guy that's shooting at you. But what

682
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 3: Hamas is doing is using human sacrifice. As in they

683
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: say not my words over and over, and they keep

684
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: telling the world, I need as many of my people

685
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 3: to die as possible. So it's not just by words,

686
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: by intent, but also by the actions that they do.

687
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 3: They're trying to get as many of their population killed

688
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 3: to achieve their political goal, which is the destruction of

689
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 3: Israel and the death of all Jews. Again, not my words,

690
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: their words. I've never seen a combatant who uses human

691
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 3: shield and human sacrifice. The Japanese didn't do that, The

692
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: Nazis didn't do that where they say I need all

693
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: of my population to die, so I achieved this, you know,

694
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 3: sick religious ideology of martyrdom that achieves my goal in

695
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 3: the afterlife, where Israel's destroyed later. But this is why

696
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: you know, every hospital, every school, every UN facility has

697
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 3: Hamas underneath it, and they do things like keep civilians

698
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 3: from evacuating. They are trying to get their populations. They're

699
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 3: not trying to I actually heard it yesterday too. You know,

700
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: if Hamas really cares about the people, they'll do this.

701
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 3: When has Hamas ever said they care about the Palestinian people.

702
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 3: Matter of fact, they have publicly rem pedialy said that

703
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 3: do not care. It's not their problem. They actually said,

704
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 3: you know, that's the UNS problem. I need as many

705
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 3: of these people to die. That's different, Michael, So human

706
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: shield very very unfortunately, war crime but very common, let's

707
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: say with terrorists. But human sacrifice that's unique. And this

708
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 3: is where you get to an irrational actor and all

709
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: these ideals of what can be done in Gaza. The

710
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 3: only thing that can be done is to cut that

711
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: cancer out of that area so that you can have

712
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: something that actually does care about the people be put

713
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 3: in place.

714
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: What does I know you said you don't deal with probability.

715
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: I know you don't deal with probability. What does winning

716
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: the war look like for Israel? And what does winning

717
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: the war look like for Hamas. I know there's been

718
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: discussions in this negotiations about Hamas raising a flag near

719
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: the Egyptian border, and that's a sign of winning. What

720
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: is winning and losing? And what is winning and losing?

721
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: A war in general look like it's not a basketball game,

722
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: it's not a football game. You know, how does Israel

723
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: declare winning this war? You know, we've obviously, you know,

724
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: done destruction and neutralize so many different things. But what

725
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: does winning look like for Israel? What is not winning

726
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: look like for Israel?

727
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question, and actually it is something

728
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 3: that people struggle with, even within militaries and governments. And

729
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 3: I taught that that was one of the classes of

730
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 3: strategy was what is winning? And we have called decisive victory,

731
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 3: and we have all these definitions. I have a Foreign

732
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: Affairs article coming out where I'm trying to argue that

733
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: Israel is absolutely winning in Gaza, but that doesn't mean

734
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 3: they're going to win. And by definition, we have to assess, Okay,

735
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: we have a war. It has a start date. So

736
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 3: I don't care what people say that this started on

737
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 3: October seventh, when Hamas invaded Israel and committed its atrocities

738
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 3: and took costagers back into Gaza. On October eighth, Israel

739
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 3: formally declared war against Hamas. Hamas never actually publicly stated

740
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 3: its goals of the war. Right, this is how I'm

741
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: going to tell you. Who's winning is based on the goals,

742
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 3: strategic goals, we call them the goals of the nation,

743
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 3: or in Hamas's the political apparatus. His war is the

744
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 3: pursuit of political goals. In this war, you have to

745
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 3: assess who's winning based on both sides goals. Right. So

746
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 3: Hamas has a grand strategy to destroy Israel. Right, what

747
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: it was trying to do on October seventh was to

748
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 3: destroy Israel. And it thought that a lot of people

749
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 3: were going to join, Come on, guys, and some did

750
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 3: and some didn't. And it was defeated because of a

751
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: lot of brave Israelis who stood in the door. But

752
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 3: the war. On October eighth, Israel said, I need, I

753
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 3: want to return to hostages, I want to secure the border,

754
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 3: and I want to destroy Hamas. And these are the

755
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 3: three metrics of Israel on Hamasa's side on October eighth.

756
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 3: When now it's Israel is declaring war against them, their

757
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: goal of the war, which is really easy to define

758
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 3: in the measure. Hamas's goal on October eighth was to

759
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 3: survive Israel's counterattack period. That's it survive it. So if

760
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: they survived the war, as in they remain in political

761
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 3: or military power in Gaza, they have won the war.

762
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 3: So on the other side, for Israel to win the war,

763
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: it has to return to hostages. So how's it going. Unfortunately,

764
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 3: so one hundred and forty six hostages have been returned,

765
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 3: one hundred and five remained in gazam Securing the borders.

766
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 3: Israel secured the border rapidly, but also is building a

767
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 3: massive buffer zone around Gaza, and they've uniquely to war

768
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 3: as well. Israel has secured the complete area around the

769
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 3: war zone, as in the Rafa crossing, the Egypt to

770
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: Gaza crossing, where majority of the weapons that built this

771
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 3: Hamas military came from. Even in the past you talk

772
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 3: about the US in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam other places,

773
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 3: sealing the enemy from that external support was never achieved

774
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 3: and it became one of the reasons that they became

775
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: drawn out protracted fights is because they had constant, even

776
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 3: state backed support being able to flow into them. Israel

777
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 3: has secured the border. But then you get to this

778
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 3: last thing. It's like, well, are they being successful at

779
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 3: destroying Hamas and what does that look like? That allows

780
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: people that think they're smart to get into You can't

781
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 3: destroy an ideology, like nobody said that was the goal

782
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 3: of the war. The goal of the war is to

783
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 3: definably destroy Hamas, remove them from power. That can be

784
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: further defined though as removing their capabilities militarily like rockets, tunnels,

785
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 3: manufacturing capabilities, large weapons, cachets, all of this. Hamas leadership

786
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 3: of the military, they're actually organized formations. Israel has destroyed

787
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 3: Hamas's military wing toward it's a fraction of itself. It's

788
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 3: a gorilla force now that is much weaker every time

789
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: Israel goes back into places. Hamas is still a political

790
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 3: power though even though it's governing. The people of Gads

791
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: are from the shadows, but through force to include distributing

792
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 3: the humanitarian aid that the world. It's a big but

793
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 3: that's one of the ways they have powers. They're taking

794
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 3: the humanit aid and giving it out, which is a

795
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: form of power for Israel to win. So I think

796
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 3: Israel is winning like they've they've destroyed the military, They've

797
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 3: returned over half the hostages, they've secured the borders. Hamas

798
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 3: is on the run, you know, the rat is in

799
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 3: his tunnel and they're pursuing the goals despite the constraints

800
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 3: that have been put on it. Right, wars never fought

801
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 3: without constraints in the world, and Israel's you know, the

802
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: complexity of hez Blood attacking on October eighth, Iran attacking

803
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 3: on October or April thirteenth, the Huthi's attacking. So there's

804
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 3: a lot of complexities here. So the fact that Israel

805
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 3: has achieved what it has so far is actually quite impressive.

806
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 3: But in order to win, Israel has to replace Hamas

807
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 3: with another power, because destroying something means that you not

808
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 3: only make it so it can't do it's assigned mission

809
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 3: military like attack or defense. It can't reconstitute it self.

810
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 3: So that will be the definable metric of is Israel winning.

811
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 3: If Hamas plays the insurgency game, right, may be come

812
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 3: an insurgency. And there's this thing that in insurgencies where

813
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: they say you have the watchers, I have the time,

814
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 3: kind of like the Taliban did when hid into Pakistan,

815
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 3: would come across the border, fight for fighting seasons and

816
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 3: go back, and then once the US gave up, they

817
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 3: seize power. We were defeated by definition because what we

818
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 3: were trying to remove quickly return to power. So if

819
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 3: in Israel, for some reason, and there are many reasons,

820
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: Israel decides that it cannot main consolidate the gains that

821
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 3: they have achieved, they would have to in place a

822
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 3: different power, and it probably won't be good guys like

823
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 3: the Palestinian authority or something else that keeps Hamas from

824
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 3: ever gaining political or military power, which some people don't understand.

825
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 3: Even Hamas has come about like, well, we might let

826
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 3: a technocratic government come in here and be the political power,

827
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: but we want to maintain some military power, which is

828
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 3: some people call it the Hesbla model, right, because blow

829
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 3: is a force in Lebanon which is also a part

830
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 3: of the political party, but it's separate than the government,

831
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 3: although it's a big part of government as well. But

832
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 3: in order for Israel to win, it has to make

833
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: sure that Hamas never governs the Gaza strip again and

834
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: never gets military power to conduct attacks again, rockets, suicide bombers, nothing.

835
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 3: For all that Hamas has to do at this point

836
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: is survive as in survive as either a military or

837
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 3: political power. And it can say we attack Israel and

838
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: through Israel the United States and we survived. It will validate.

839
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 3: It will also win because it will validate Iran's strategy

840
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 3: of using its proxies to attack Israel and the United

841
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 3: States through this proxyes you know, Hamas, Hezbala, Huthi's back

842
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 3: Shia backed groups in Iraq. It will validate Iran's greater

843
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 3: grand strategy to eventually destroy Israel through Hamas and its proxies.

844
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 3: So pretty clear for me where you get all these

845
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 3: so called academics who say that the you know, you've

846
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 3: you've driven up the support for Hamas in the Palestinian people.

847
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: One that has nothing to do with the definition because

848
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 3: I can guarantee you and they're just using the wrong models, right.

849
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 3: So I would use like a World War two like

850
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 3: German Nazi army, German the Nazi government, or the Japanese.

851
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 3: I'm sure if you pulled the Japanese people during World

852
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 3: War Two you had one hundred percent support for the emperor.

853
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 3: The support of the people really matters encounter insurgencies. This

854
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 3: war is not a counterinsurgency. There's no other power that

855
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 3: Hamas is resisting within Gazla. The idea of is attacking

856
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 3: as the military who who is fighting a self defense

857
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 3: war against Hamas. So this is where people say, well,

858
00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: you can't destroy terror this way. Yes, afters is defeated,

859
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 3: Israel will also have to be a part of backing

860
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 3: the new power, whoever it is, if it's the Palace

861
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 3: and Authority or somebody else that has a different name.

862
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 3: They'll have to back them with power. They'll have to

863
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 3: start deradicalization, as you know, and I know, and it

864
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 3: freaks me out when I watch like a Palestinian media

865
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 3: sesame street teaching the children of Gaza to be terrorist.

866
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 3: I mean it's wild. So all this post conflict stuff, deradicalization, disarmament, demilitarization, reconciliation.

867
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 3: There will be members of the Hamas institutions that will

868
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 3: have to be put into the new government, but they

869
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 3: won't be Hamas. The world's kind of lost its mind

870
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: or forgotten what war is. Israel is winning, but it's

871
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 3: up to Israel whether it ultimately wins.

872
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: Man.

873
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: That's a lot, a lot, it's a lot. It's a lot,

874
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 2: it's a lot.

875
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 1: It's a lot and we're fighting Hamas, we're fighting in Gaza.

876
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: Israel is being attacked daily by Hesballah, which is a

877
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: proxy of Iran.

878
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: Is there an end to this?

879
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, I feel like the end,

880
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I mean the end is Iran.

881
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: Iran is in control of this. Iran is funding this.

882
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: Iran is the pulling the strings. You know, if you look,

883
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: remember the poster of the movie The Godfather, you know,

884
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: the puppet strings.

885
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 2: Iran is, you know, pulling all those strings. Is there

886
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 2: an end?

887
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 1: And how do how does the world get to the end,

888
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: because I feel like it's it can't just be all

889
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: placed on Israel to deal with Iran. They have so

890
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,959
Speaker 1: much money, there's so many people there. They're sniffing around

891
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: a nuclear bomb. They're causing havoc. They have been causing havoc.

892
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: They've been funding havoc, funding terror, funding destruction for so

893
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: many years.

894
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: How do we the world, the.

895
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: Civilians, the civilized people, get to the end, which is

896
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: somehow squalching Iran once and for all and getting them

897
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: into twenty twenty five, you know, and focusing on life

898
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: and prospering and living as opposed to destruction.

899
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Michael, if I had the answers to everything, I

900
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 3: would probably have a different job, but we did. You

901
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 3: did ask me about the war against Hamas and Gaza,

902
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,240
Speaker 3: but you can't separate that from the fact that Hesba

903
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 3: is which is a massive military is attacking since October eighth,

904
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 3: that you have eighty to one hundred thousand Israelis homeless

905
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 3: the last ten months in northern Israel, and the fact

906
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 3: that Israel needs to be able to say that it's

907
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,240
Speaker 3: ended the war against in Gaza in order to give

908
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 3: Hesba the option to mess around to find out since

909
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 3: they say they're only doing it because Israel's fighting this war,

910
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 3: which really means Israel needs to be able to say

911
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 3: it's transitioning out of high intensity combat into this post

912
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 3: conflict operations we just talked about. But you're right, is

913
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 3: that the head of this snake, the tentacles are all Iran,

914
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 3: And in this aspect, it's like a better question for

915
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 3: me is how do you re establish de trance because

916
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 3: this is what this has all been a part of,

917
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 3: and through many reasons, Iran has been allowed to be

918
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 3: the global exporter of terrorism, building this network to attack

919
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: Israel and through Israel to attack the United States. Is

920
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 3: that it's going to continue until we stop the cycle

921
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 3: of violence, which I actually like that term. I agree

922
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 3: we should stop the cycle of balance. But this country,

923
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 3: these groups understand power, they understand the threat of power.

924
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 3: It's called deterrence theory. Iran is going to keep doing

925
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 3: this until they're stopped and there are repercussions for its actions.

926
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 3: But this is the complexity of geopolitics, or even for

927
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 3: Israel just its security, as in I have to make

928
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 3: very hard decisions on priorities of threat, and of course

929
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: this terror Mulah regime getting a nuclear bomb is the

930
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 3: number one threat, so I have to act with that

931
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 3: as the primary because again not my words, Iran's wants

932
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 3: nuclear weapons not for its own survival, but to attack

933
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 3: Israel and other people. How do we get out of this?

934
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 3: How do we end this? It's through steps. Step one,

935
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 3: I can say the very first step is to destroy

936
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 3: Hamas because that is the stepping stone, and if you don't,

937
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 3: then the cycle of violence will continue forever. If Israel

938
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 3: is cut from destroying Hamas, then that that gives a

939
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 3: win to Hezebel as well, because Hesbela says they helped

940
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 3: Hamas survive by attacking Israel. So this it will continue

941
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 3: the cycle of violence. Of course, Israel has to do

942
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 3: a lot. In October seventh changed Israel forever changed the world.

943
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 3: Israel will have to do a lot and its both

944
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 3: defense and offense and everything in its security. But there

945
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 3: are also lots of positives here. The ideal of Arab

946
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 3: nations coming to the aid of Israel wallet's under attacked

947
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 3: is unheard of, right, so I think that's an actual

948
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 3: sign of there is a path to a better world here.

949
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 3: But it starts with the destruction of Hamas, and it starts,

950
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 3: I agree with you with stop using a foreign policy

951
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 3: of insanity with the Mulah regime, the Islamic regime of

952
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 3: Iran and doing the same thing hoping for a different

953
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 3: outcome that it will. You know it has human rights

954
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 3: as its center of its goals. No it doesn't. And

955
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 3: you have to use power. These Iran or the Islamic

956
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 3: regime of Iran, all its proxies only understand power, and

957
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 3: they understand the threat of power, which is called deterance.

958
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 3: So if we keep and this is how we got here,

959
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 3: and we have to change course. And we have seen

960
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 3: some of that, but yes, you have to deal with

961
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 3: Iran eventually to include never letting anything get a nuclear weapon.

962
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 3: But Israel in the world to be Frank has to

963
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 3: do it in steps step one. This irrational evil entity

964
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 3: of Hamas cannot be allowed to survive or the cycle

965
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 3: of violence. Absolutely. So, I can't tell you the future,

966
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 3: but I can tell you with strong certainty if Hamas

967
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 3: survives this war, the cycle of violence will continue forever.

968
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: Some people say, the people of Israel, We'll find a

969
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: place to go.

970
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 2: America will let him in, this place, will let him in.

971
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: Just let him have it.

972
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: Just let Iran have it, Just let Egypt have it,

973
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: Just let Siria have it. It'll be so much easier

974
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: if Israel doesn't exist. Aside from the heartfelt reasons, aside

975
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: from the logical reasons, why is it imperative that Israel

976
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: actually exists? You know, Biden said something, he said, you know,

977
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: if there wasn't Israel, we'd have to build another Israel.

978
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: And what I got from that was something needs to

979
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: be there. Why is it imperative that this must be

980
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: stopped and that Israel exists?

981
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the only homeland of the Jewish people it is.

982
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 3: I mean, there are lots of reasons, and I know

983
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 3: that you cover a lot of them. It is the

984
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 3: home of the Jewish people. It is a sovereign nation

985
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 3: under the construct in which the entire world works under.

986
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 3: So all these people that try to rewrite history of

987
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 3: what happened, Israel was the sovereign nation given to the

988
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,479
Speaker 3: Jewish people for a Jewish state, just like every other

989
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 3: sovereign nation in its history, in its complex histories. You

990
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 3: can't go back and rewrite history. It is Israel is

991
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 3: the nation of the Jewish people. It will always be

992
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 3: the nation of Jewish people. And despite Iran, it ain't

993
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 3: going nowhere. And all these useful idiots that are trying

994
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 3: to push all this that to me is almost like

995
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 3: that's ridiculous. And the fact that Israel is so strong,

996
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 3: I think it should be, you know, put in the

997
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 3: face of these people. If you think Israel's going anywhere,

998
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 3: then you have a very sad life. But it's a

999
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 3: sovereign nation of the Jewish people. It ain't going nowhere.

1000
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 3: It survived many empires, the Roman, you name it. It

1001
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 3: ain't going nowhere. And it's actually stronger than it's ever

1002
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 3: been in this life, and we've seen that since October seventh.

1003
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 3: So if that's your hope, that is, like these evil terrorists,

1004
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 3: that your hope is that Israel is erased off the

1005
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 3: map and you're going to lead a sad life for

1006
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 3: the rest of your time on this earth because it

1007
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 3: ain't going nowhere. It's stronger than it's ever been. It

1008
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 3: has the right to be the home of the Jewish people.

1009
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 3: You're not going to go back and rewrite history. It

1010
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 3: has sovereign borders. There are complexities of it, but all

1011
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 3: that freaking noise, to me is ridiculous. And this is

1012
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 3: why you've seen the strength of Israel despite the times

1013
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 3: it has been attacked by five seven nations at one time.

1014
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 3: And I actually got this from studying Israel. It's like

1015
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 3: it's survived many empires, many attempts to raise it and

1016
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 3: the people from the planet. It ain't going nowhere, and

1017
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 3: it's actually stronger than it's ever been. So I feel

1018
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 3: really bad for those idiots.

1019
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 2: John.

1020
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: The last question I'm gonna ask you is, I know

1021
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: you're always studying your learning, you're explaining, you're sharing what's

1022
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: most pressing next that you're trying to figure out or

1023
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: decipher about this war with Hamas currently as of August twentieth.

1024
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question actually, and just to be when.

1025
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: You say it's a great question, because you get asked

1026
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: so many great questions, so I get I'm honored every

1027
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: time you say that, Like I feel like I got

1028
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: I put one up on the board, Like I'm like

1029
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: one point.

1030
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 2: To wrap up.

1031
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,919
Speaker 3: It's such a big topic, right, so to be able

1032
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 3: to really narrow down, like, oh, that's a good one.

1033
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 3: Respect So for me as a student of all urban warfare,

1034
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 3: what's next for me is to capture despite the noise,

1035
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 3: despite the information, is to capture like how the heck

1036
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 3: just like we did? So if you don't know from

1037
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 3: during the nineteen seventy Young Kippur War, the United States

1038
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 3: sent study after study, like commissioned like twenty seven studies

1039
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 3: like how did Israel survive that? How did they turn

1040
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 3: the tide and become do the unthinkable. I'm currently in

1041
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 3: that mindset of what Israel has been able to do

1042
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 3: the idea specifically in Gaza, despite this world that Hamas

1043
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 3: built for fifteen years, is still able to achieve its

1044
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 3: military goals with very low civilian casualties. Dealing with a

1045
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:45,919
Speaker 3: tunnel network that nobody's ever dealt with. I mean, even

1046
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 3: the paradigm shift, so I do underground warfare. Before October seventh,

1047
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 3: Israel also had an inversion of tunnels, like don't go

1048
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 3: in them unless like a soldier's being taken into a

1049
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 3: tunnel like last resort. They have had a com plee

1050
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 3: paradigm shift where that's not Hamasa's tunnel, that's my tunnel,

1051
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 3: and they're using the tunnels to attack Hamas at the

1052
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 3: same time and completely dominating this enemy. I'm trying to

1053
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 3: capture that and I learned every time I'll be back.

1054
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 3: I'll actually be there for the anniversary on October seventh,

1055
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 3: I'll be back studying, like, how the heck are you

1056
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 3: doing this? How are you still achieving these goals despite

1057
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 3: the constraints which always there in urban warfare, because I'm

1058
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 3: the urban guy and I've been telling people for over

1059
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 3: a decade, like this is the future, because like we've

1060
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 3: seen with Hamas and other groups, it gives them an

1061
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 3: advantage to be in the urban area. It shouldn't give

1062
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 3: them an advantage to violate the laws of war, and

1063
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 3: we should uphold the laws of war. But this is

1064
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 3: the future of wars. Because of the population growth of

1065
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 3: the world, the urbanization of the world, the fact that

1066
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 3: all milteries are smaller than they've ever been in history.

1067
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 3: We're going to see more and more of this urban battles.

1068
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 3: Hopefully we never see anything like Hamas again with this

1069
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 3: human sacrifice tunnel based strategy. But I'm trying to capture

1070
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 3: how the heck did you figure it out so that

1071
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 3: other militaries, because I honestly believe that what the idea

1072
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 3: of have achieved, the innovations, the tactics, everything will save

1073
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 3: American lives in our next battles and wars because they've

1074
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 3: figured out things that we've never faced, these challenges, and

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01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 3: we would not have figured it out the way they have.

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01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 3: I mean, just like the risk that they're taking to

1077
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 3: inter tunnels at the same time, like it's mind blowing,

1078
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 3: but I think they will save American lives in the

1079
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 3: near future.

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01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: Wow.

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01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: All right, John Spencer, I appreciate you taking the time.

1082
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate all the information that you've shared

1083
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: on your own, that you've shared on other podcasts and obviously.

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01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 2: Sharing with me.

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01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: It really means a lot to me and hopefully It

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01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: means a lot to the people that get to listen

1087
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 1: to this, because I think it's imperative to have this

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01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 1: this knowledge that you have. So I appreciate you joining

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01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: the podcast and you know, and I'll talk to you soon.

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01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 3: I'm man, thanks brother, I really appreciate it. Boom.

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01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: I want to thank again John Spencer for joining me

1092
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: on the I Am Rap Report Stereo podcast. Make sure

1093
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: you tell a friend to tell a friend about this

1094
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: very very important episode. I'm done. Thank you again, John Spencer.

1095
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: Follow him, read all his work. Get informed. Miles Jordan

1096
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: ak The Bleach Brothers aka the Dust Brothers. Take me

1097
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: at it with something real nice, take me out of

1098
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: it with something real out, but most importantly, take me

1099
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: out of here.

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01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 2: With something real fun. It's im rap Port Stereo podcast.

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01:07:47,520 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 3: I'm done.