1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:26,116 Speaker 1: Bushkin. In the space of a week, back before the 2 00:00:26,156 --> 00:00:33,436 Speaker 1: world came to a halt, I took two trips. One 3 00:00:33,796 --> 00:00:37,396 Speaker 1: was to downtown Manhattan to the nine eleven Memorial. I'm 4 00:00:37,436 --> 00:00:40,316 Speaker 1: ashamed to say I'd never visited before, even though I 5 00:00:40,356 --> 00:00:44,516 Speaker 1: live in Manhattan, one Express subway stop away. I'd seen pictures, 6 00:00:44,996 --> 00:00:48,236 Speaker 1: I'd walked right by it, but for some reason, I'd 7 00:00:48,276 --> 00:00:51,756 Speaker 1: never gone right up to it. So I did. Finally 8 00:00:52,476 --> 00:00:54,916 Speaker 1: saw the two big holes in the ground marking the 9 00:00:54,956 --> 00:00:58,556 Speaker 1: spot where the Twin Towers once stood, saw the waterfalls, 10 00:00:59,076 --> 00:01:02,956 Speaker 1: the black stone, the somber lines of trees surrounding the memorial. 11 00:01:03,716 --> 00:01:08,236 Speaker 1: It was pouring rain. There was no one else there. 12 00:01:11,236 --> 00:01:16,196 Speaker 1: My second trip was to Jacksonville, Florida, two unseasonably cold 13 00:01:16,276 --> 00:01:20,516 Speaker 1: winter days. I wanted to see a chart. I know 14 00:01:20,596 --> 00:01:23,156 Speaker 1: that might seem odd who goes to Florida to see 15 00:01:23,156 --> 00:01:25,996 Speaker 1: a chart? But there I sat in the conference room 16 00:01:26,276 --> 00:01:28,996 Speaker 1: of what looked like an old bank right by the freeway, 17 00:01:29,516 --> 00:01:31,836 Speaker 1: and someone hooked a laptop up to a big screen 18 00:01:32,156 --> 00:01:36,716 Speaker 1: and showed me a scatterplot X axis, Y axis, a 19 00:01:36,756 --> 00:01:39,716 Speaker 1: bunch of dots, each in the shape of a human figure. 20 00:01:42,556 --> 00:01:44,836 Speaker 1: At the time, I didn't think of my visit to 21 00:01:44,876 --> 00:01:48,476 Speaker 1: Florida and my visit to the nine eleven Memorial as connected. 22 00:01:49,076 --> 00:01:51,556 Speaker 1: They were just two random quests that seemed like they 23 00:01:51,636 --> 00:01:54,556 Speaker 1: might lead somewhere. That's what I do at the beginning 24 00:01:54,556 --> 00:01:56,676 Speaker 1: of every year when I start the research for a 25 00:01:56,676 --> 00:01:59,116 Speaker 1: new season of the show. I spend a lot of 26 00:01:59,116 --> 00:02:04,276 Speaker 1: time pursuing random ideas. But then March came and the 27 00:02:04,316 --> 00:02:08,076 Speaker 1: world turned very strange and very dark, and I sat 28 00:02:08,156 --> 00:02:11,676 Speaker 1: in my room and realized that those two trips were 29 00:02:11,716 --> 00:02:16,436 Speaker 1: about the same thing. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're 30 00:02:16,476 --> 00:02:21,436 Speaker 1: listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. 31 00:02:26,996 --> 00:02:30,036 Speaker 1: This is the final episode of a season that has 32 00:02:30,076 --> 00:02:35,796 Speaker 1: been preoccupied with understanding our attachments to objects, to rituals, 33 00:02:35,996 --> 00:02:41,556 Speaker 1: to traditions, to elaborate bits of machinery like airplanes. This 34 00:02:41,636 --> 00:02:46,156 Speaker 1: episode is about our attachment to our memories, the things 35 00:02:46,236 --> 00:02:49,236 Speaker 1: we choose to remember as a society, and the things 36 00:02:49,236 --> 00:02:57,796 Speaker 1: we choose to forget. In September of two thousand and one, 37 00:02:58,196 --> 00:03:01,596 Speaker 1: when two hijacked passenger jets crashed into the World Trade 38 00:03:01,596 --> 00:03:05,276 Speaker 1: Towers in New York City, a young architect named Michael 39 00:03:05,396 --> 00:03:07,996 Speaker 1: Arod was living in downtown Manhattan. 40 00:03:08,276 --> 00:03:13,116 Speaker 2: And a couple of nights after the attack, I was 41 00:03:13,156 --> 00:03:15,076 Speaker 2: on my bicycle and I made my way to Washington 42 00:03:15,076 --> 00:03:17,476 Speaker 2: Square Park and at two or three in the morning, 43 00:03:17,516 --> 00:03:20,396 Speaker 2: there were a dozen or so people standing around that 44 00:03:20,516 --> 00:03:22,276 Speaker 2: fountain in the middle of the park, and there was 45 00:03:23,236 --> 00:03:26,036 Speaker 2: no ceremony, there was no speech. There was just people 46 00:03:26,116 --> 00:03:30,876 Speaker 2: standing there together, not even you know, in ones and 47 00:03:30,916 --> 00:03:32,836 Speaker 2: twos and threes. And when I walked up to the 48 00:03:32,876 --> 00:03:35,636 Speaker 2: edge of that fountain and stood next to a stranger, 49 00:03:36,796 --> 00:03:41,076 Speaker 2: I felt, for the first time in two three days 50 00:03:41,116 --> 00:03:46,236 Speaker 2: since something shift that I was supported by these people, 51 00:03:46,276 --> 00:03:48,196 Speaker 2: and in turn, just by standing next to them, I 52 00:03:48,276 --> 00:03:56,716 Speaker 2: was supporting them. And I think that sense of belonging 53 00:03:56,756 --> 00:03:59,596 Speaker 2: for the first time pushed me some way to on 54 00:03:59,796 --> 00:04:03,156 Speaker 2: to participate in this idea for a memorial. 55 00:04:04,716 --> 00:04:08,676 Speaker 1: A memorial. The vision that came to a Rod was 56 00:04:08,716 --> 00:04:12,196 Speaker 1: of two two giant, empty concrete vessels in the Hudson River, 57 00:04:12,556 --> 00:04:15,756 Speaker 1: a few blocks from the twin towers, each roughly the 58 00:04:15,796 --> 00:04:18,556 Speaker 1: size and shape of the footprint of the towers. 59 00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:22,676 Speaker 2: Themselves, imagining the surface of the Hudson River somehow shorn open, 60 00:04:23,396 --> 00:04:26,316 Speaker 2: forming these two square voids in the water, cascading into 61 00:04:26,356 --> 00:04:30,076 Speaker 2: these voids and never filling them up, and so they 62 00:04:30,116 --> 00:04:32,436 Speaker 2: remained these empty, inexplicable vessels. 63 00:04:33,076 --> 00:04:35,596 Speaker 1: A few years later, the city set up a competition 64 00:04:35,676 --> 00:04:38,316 Speaker 1: to design a memorial for the site. It was the 65 00:04:38,396 --> 00:04:43,436 Speaker 1: largest design competition in history, over five thousand entries from 66 00:04:43,516 --> 00:04:47,436 Speaker 1: sixty three countries, including some of the most famous architects 67 00:04:47,516 --> 00:04:51,796 Speaker 1: in the world. Michael Arod was a nobody. He worked 68 00:04:51,796 --> 00:04:56,236 Speaker 1: for New York's Housing Authority designing police stations. He took 69 00:04:56,236 --> 00:04:59,076 Speaker 1: his original idea and moved it from the Hudson River 70 00:04:59,156 --> 00:05:02,956 Speaker 1: to the actual site of the fallen towers. Two deep 71 00:05:03,116 --> 00:05:07,636 Speaker 1: voids representing the footprint of the twin towers, each with 72 00:05:07,716 --> 00:05:11,356 Speaker 1: a waterfall and reflect pool, ringed by the names of 73 00:05:11,356 --> 00:05:14,676 Speaker 1: those who died. He entered, and he won. 74 00:05:15,556 --> 00:05:18,196 Speaker 2: The towers were about two hundred and twelve feet across, 75 00:05:18,516 --> 00:05:22,716 Speaker 2: and the reflecting pools that you see on the site 76 00:05:22,756 --> 00:05:25,956 Speaker 2: today are one hundred and seventy six feet across from 77 00:05:25,996 --> 00:05:29,276 Speaker 2: waterfall to waterfall. That waterfall is ringed by eight foot 78 00:05:29,276 --> 00:05:32,316 Speaker 2: wide water table that brings that out further to one 79 00:05:32,356 --> 00:05:34,796 Speaker 2: hundred and ninety six if I'm not mistaken, and then 80 00:05:35,076 --> 00:05:40,596 Speaker 2: surrounding that water table where the names are displayed is 81 00:05:40,796 --> 00:05:42,876 Speaker 2: an area where you can walk around the pools, and 82 00:05:42,916 --> 00:05:45,396 Speaker 2: that area is ringed by trees, and so that first 83 00:05:45,516 --> 00:05:48,516 Speaker 2: row of trees that surround each pool is precisely two 84 00:05:48,636 --> 00:05:50,196 Speaker 2: hundred and twelve feet across. 85 00:05:50,836 --> 00:05:56,116 Speaker 1: He called his design Reflecting Absence, a precise representation of 86 00:05:56,156 --> 00:05:58,676 Speaker 1: what was taken away on the morning of nine to eleven. 87 00:05:59,716 --> 00:06:02,156 Speaker 2: What I wanted to do is convey to people who 88 00:06:02,156 --> 00:06:08,196 Speaker 2: come here, very clearly without embellishment, how large these towers were. 89 00:06:08,316 --> 00:06:11,316 Speaker 2: And that's very evident when you stand at the edge 90 00:06:11,356 --> 00:06:14,276 Speaker 2: of that pool, and there is something that no photograph 91 00:06:14,356 --> 00:06:18,076 Speaker 2: can capture until you're there. At the sense of the 92 00:06:18,116 --> 00:06:20,596 Speaker 2: scale of the you as a person next to this 93 00:06:20,756 --> 00:06:25,916 Speaker 2: enormous space is you have to experience it there and 94 00:06:26,036 --> 00:06:30,076 Speaker 2: to see the thousands of names that surround these two pools. 95 00:06:30,996 --> 00:06:34,356 Speaker 2: To convey the loss of so many lives. 96 00:06:35,036 --> 00:06:39,076 Speaker 1: A rod conceived of something simple and beautiful. The task 97 00:06:39,116 --> 00:06:44,916 Speaker 1: of making it real fell to the Port Authority. The 98 00:06:44,956 --> 00:06:48,876 Speaker 1: Port Authority builds and runs much of the transportation infrastructure 99 00:06:48,916 --> 00:06:52,796 Speaker 1: in the New York region, the bridges, tunnels, airports. They're 100 00:06:52,836 --> 00:06:56,876 Speaker 1: like the metro areas in house engineer, contractor, and handyman 101 00:06:57,036 --> 00:06:59,796 Speaker 1: all in one. If your handyman had an annual budget 102 00:06:59,836 --> 00:07:03,716 Speaker 1: in the billions. They actually built the original World Trade Center, 103 00:07:04,236 --> 00:07:07,476 Speaker 1: and the responsibility for building the memorial was theirs. 104 00:07:07,956 --> 00:07:12,476 Speaker 3: Nice to see you on time today. Yeah, so we 105 00:07:12,476 --> 00:07:13,956 Speaker 3: were just so. 106 00:07:13,996 --> 00:07:17,196 Speaker 1: I asked the two former Port Authority executives who oversaw 107 00:07:17,236 --> 00:07:21,476 Speaker 1: the memorial project, Chris Ward and David Tweety, to meet 108 00:07:21,476 --> 00:07:24,796 Speaker 1: me at ground zero. I wanted to understand what it 109 00:07:24,836 --> 00:07:27,756 Speaker 1: means to make memory real in the way that Arod 110 00:07:27,836 --> 00:07:28,436 Speaker 1: was proposing. 111 00:07:28,916 --> 00:07:32,276 Speaker 4: What a complexity of just building it, then the complexity 112 00:07:32,316 --> 00:07:35,036 Speaker 4: of the symbolism and the culture of why did people 113 00:07:35,116 --> 00:07:37,556 Speaker 4: choose to put so much into the site, which then 114 00:07:37,636 --> 00:07:40,156 Speaker 4: exacerbated or made instructibility. 115 00:07:40,316 --> 00:07:41,956 Speaker 1: You can walk around a bit, sure, why don't we 116 00:07:41,956 --> 00:07:44,916 Speaker 1: start by really simple? I'm happy the nine to eleven 117 00:07:44,956 --> 00:07:48,836 Speaker 1: Memorial wasn't an ordinary project. The design committee made it 118 00:07:48,876 --> 00:07:51,236 Speaker 1: clear that they wanted something built on the site of 119 00:07:51,316 --> 00:07:55,996 Speaker 1: the old towers, which created a logistical nightmare because ground 120 00:07:56,116 --> 00:07:59,036 Speaker 1: zero isn't some vacant lot, It's one of the most 121 00:07:59,036 --> 00:08:02,356 Speaker 1: dense urban spaces in the country. I met the Port 122 00:08:02,356 --> 00:08:05,236 Speaker 1: Authority guys in the lobby of four World Trade Center, 123 00:08:05,556 --> 00:08:08,356 Speaker 1: which is seventy two stories high, but it is also 124 00:08:08,676 --> 00:08:11,116 Speaker 1: a one World Trade Center at one hundred and four 125 00:08:11,196 --> 00:08:14,756 Speaker 1: stories and a two or three, a planned five and 126 00:08:14,796 --> 00:08:18,196 Speaker 1: a seven World Trade Center, plus the nine eleven Museum, 127 00:08:18,396 --> 00:08:21,996 Speaker 1: a performing arts center, and a massive transit hub where 128 00:08:22,036 --> 00:08:25,356 Speaker 1: the Path commuter trains enter from New Jersey. The hub 129 00:08:25,356 --> 00:08:27,876 Speaker 1: looks like the bones of a beached whale or a 130 00:08:27,876 --> 00:08:32,116 Speaker 1: giant hair clip, depending on your perspective. That structure also 131 00:08:32,156 --> 00:08:35,676 Speaker 1: contains a mall, and underneath it all, running right through 132 00:08:35,676 --> 00:08:38,196 Speaker 1: the middle, is a subway line, the Number one train. 133 00:08:38,996 --> 00:08:41,236 Speaker 1: All of these structures had to be built at the 134 00:08:41,276 --> 00:08:45,156 Speaker 1: same time as Michael Arod's memorial Voids, and because everything 135 00:08:45,236 --> 00:08:48,676 Speaker 1: is basically on top of everything else, the logistics of 136 00:08:48,716 --> 00:08:51,356 Speaker 1: planning and building were overwhelming. 137 00:08:57,956 --> 00:09:01,236 Speaker 5: So you have memorialization, you have a museum, you have 138 00:09:01,316 --> 00:09:04,716 Speaker 5: real estate, you've got a security center, you've got an 139 00:09:04,996 --> 00:09:08,196 Speaker 5: ecumenical religious city. You pour all that in and then 140 00:09:08,196 --> 00:09:11,316 Speaker 5: you've got the overlag of the families were wondering, you know, 141 00:09:11,316 --> 00:09:12,516 Speaker 5: where's my commemoration? 142 00:09:12,636 --> 00:09:15,036 Speaker 3: Where will I warn? You put that all in? 143 00:09:15,076 --> 00:09:18,676 Speaker 5: And it's impossible to disentangle a stet of priorities. 144 00:09:19,436 --> 00:09:22,276 Speaker 1: Tweetywood and I stood by the two black Stone voids 145 00:09:22,516 --> 00:09:25,276 Speaker 1: in the pouring rain, and they tried to explain what 146 00:09:25,356 --> 00:09:26,036 Speaker 1: they went through. 147 00:09:27,196 --> 00:09:30,396 Speaker 5: So we use the analogy that the construction was so 148 00:09:30,516 --> 00:09:33,596 Speaker 5: difficult because it was like the children's game of pickup 149 00:09:33,636 --> 00:09:36,076 Speaker 5: sticks that if you if you know that little game 150 00:09:36,116 --> 00:09:38,636 Speaker 5: where you've got the multi colored sticks and if you 151 00:09:38,676 --> 00:09:40,916 Speaker 5: pick one up, the other one moves and then you lose. 152 00:09:41,516 --> 00:09:42,916 Speaker 3: Everything here is connected. 153 00:09:43,796 --> 00:09:46,116 Speaker 1: The political leadership in New York made it clear that 154 00:09:46,196 --> 00:09:48,596 Speaker 1: the memorial had to be finished in time for the 155 00:09:48,636 --> 00:09:53,116 Speaker 1: tenth anniversary of the attacks September eleventh, twenty eleventh. 156 00:09:53,436 --> 00:09:54,836 Speaker 3: Just to be tangible about it. 157 00:09:54,956 --> 00:09:57,596 Speaker 6: The memorial plaza, which we were on a huge pressure 158 00:09:57,596 --> 00:10:00,676 Speaker 6: to get done by the tenth anniversary, is sitting on 159 00:10:00,716 --> 00:10:01,636 Speaker 6: the ceiling of the hub. 160 00:10:02,156 --> 00:10:05,716 Speaker 1: The hub the place where all the underground transit lines converge. 161 00:10:06,396 --> 00:10:11,236 Speaker 6: We have to completely refashion the construction process of how 162 00:10:11,236 --> 00:10:13,916 Speaker 6: that hub got built. That huge costs by the way, 163 00:10:14,516 --> 00:10:16,516 Speaker 6: in order to get this done first, so they built 164 00:10:16,556 --> 00:10:19,076 Speaker 6: top down rather than the normal traditional. 165 00:10:19,636 --> 00:10:22,756 Speaker 1: The normal traditional way is to build from the bottom up, 166 00:10:23,316 --> 00:10:26,716 Speaker 1: start with the foundation, go from there, and Tweety says 167 00:10:26,716 --> 00:10:29,156 Speaker 1: the Port Authority originally had a plan to do things 168 00:10:29,156 --> 00:10:29,516 Speaker 1: that way. 169 00:10:30,236 --> 00:10:33,916 Speaker 5: The problem was when you did that schedule, the memorial 170 00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:36,716 Speaker 5: plaza wouldn't have been done until the end of twenty thirteen. 171 00:10:37,476 --> 00:10:40,156 Speaker 5: And so that's when we were starting to go, wait 172 00:10:40,196 --> 00:10:42,596 Speaker 5: a minute, the city is not going to tolerate the 173 00:10:42,636 --> 00:10:45,516 Speaker 5: port authority telling them me, telling them, you're gonna have 174 00:10:45,556 --> 00:10:50,196 Speaker 5: to wait till twenty thirteen before you can commemorate the anniversary. 175 00:10:50,436 --> 00:10:52,236 Speaker 3: And dates matter. I mean, ten. 176 00:10:52,116 --> 00:10:55,036 Speaker 5: Years is different than thirteen years, which is different than 177 00:10:55,716 --> 00:10:59,156 Speaker 5: twelve years. And you know, the engineers, a couple of 178 00:10:59,236 --> 00:11:03,756 Speaker 5: them came up with the idea build the ceiling first, basically, 179 00:11:03,956 --> 00:11:07,076 Speaker 5: go across the entire site with the ceiling, which is 180 00:11:07,156 --> 00:11:08,916 Speaker 5: the ceiling of what's. 181 00:11:08,716 --> 00:11:11,236 Speaker 3: Below, but most important, it's the floor. 182 00:11:10,956 --> 00:11:14,836 Speaker 5: Of the plaza. And then once you've done that, build 183 00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:15,716 Speaker 5: down from there. 184 00:11:16,716 --> 00:11:19,396 Speaker 1: As if that wasn't enough, the governor of New York 185 00:11:19,396 --> 00:11:22,636 Speaker 1: at the time insisted that the subway, the Number one line, 186 00:11:22,836 --> 00:11:25,996 Speaker 1: keep running throughout all this. So they had to build 187 00:11:25,996 --> 00:11:29,436 Speaker 1: a box around the subway tracks, suspend the box high 188 00:11:29,476 --> 00:11:32,756 Speaker 1: above the site, and work around it. Which is one 189 00:11:32,756 --> 00:11:35,396 Speaker 1: of those odd facts that you only think about if 190 00:11:35,396 --> 00:11:37,396 Speaker 1: you live in New York and you took the Number 191 00:11:37,396 --> 00:11:39,916 Speaker 1: one train, as I did many times. In those years, 192 00:11:40,436 --> 00:11:43,076 Speaker 1: and you suddenly realized that on all of those trips 193 00:11:43,436 --> 00:11:45,916 Speaker 1: you were in a real life version of Jenga, you know, 194 00:11:46,036 --> 00:11:48,036 Speaker 1: the game where you have a stack of building blocks 195 00:11:48,316 --> 00:11:51,596 Speaker 1: and you remove them one by one until everything crashes. 196 00:11:52,236 --> 00:11:55,796 Speaker 5: So there was a whole re engineering of how you'd 197 00:11:55,836 --> 00:11:59,716 Speaker 5: support the one train, how the path train would get protected. 198 00:12:00,156 --> 00:12:02,516 Speaker 3: And remember you got an operating railroad. 199 00:12:02,916 --> 00:12:07,916 Speaker 6: So you're building a temporary structure and housing the ceiling 200 00:12:07,956 --> 00:12:12,596 Speaker 6: of a hub with train tracks below you, below the 201 00:12:12,676 --> 00:12:15,556 Speaker 6: ones here, but the path trains were right under. 202 00:12:15,356 --> 00:12:17,916 Speaker 3: The building up platforms exactly, That's exactly. 203 00:12:17,956 --> 00:12:20,316 Speaker 1: And then you build a platform and then you plump 204 00:12:20,436 --> 00:12:23,276 Speaker 1: the memorial on top of the platform, and even as 205 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:24,396 Speaker 1: things are going on there. 206 00:12:24,316 --> 00:12:25,956 Speaker 3: And then you're feeding. And that's what I was getting 207 00:12:25,996 --> 00:12:26,356 Speaker 3: up before. 208 00:12:26,356 --> 00:12:31,036 Speaker 5: You're feeding the construction horizontally rather than vertically, which you know, 209 00:12:31,116 --> 00:12:34,236 Speaker 5: added about sixty million dollars worth of additional cost to 210 00:12:34,276 --> 00:12:37,036 Speaker 5: handle them. Like I was saying, at one point, you 211 00:12:37,076 --> 00:12:41,676 Speaker 5: had people hand excavating underneath the one train because there 212 00:12:41,716 --> 00:12:44,116 Speaker 5: just wasn't room to get any heavy equipment down there. 213 00:12:45,116 --> 00:12:47,396 Speaker 1: If you could put the memorial in the Hudson River, 214 00:12:47,796 --> 00:12:50,756 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have this problem. Of course, you just build 215 00:12:50,796 --> 00:12:53,636 Speaker 1: some pilings into the riverbed, and if you didn't have 216 00:12:53,676 --> 00:12:56,956 Speaker 1: to race and finish by September eleventh, twenty eleven, your 217 00:12:56,956 --> 00:12:59,276 Speaker 1: life would be easier as well. You could start at 218 00:12:59,276 --> 00:13:02,036 Speaker 1: the bottom and build up the normal way, not start 219 00:13:02,036 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 1: at the top and build down. In the service of 220 00:13:04,996 --> 00:13:09,356 Speaker 1: fulfilling the very strict requirements of memory, something that would 221 00:13:09,356 --> 00:13:12,876 Speaker 1: have been straightforward was turned into something very complicated. 222 00:13:13,476 --> 00:13:17,476 Speaker 5: Okay, So again, take something as simple as exactly where 223 00:13:17,476 --> 00:13:21,276 Speaker 5: we're standing here. Yeah, here's the brass with all the names. 224 00:13:22,036 --> 00:13:24,436 Speaker 1: We were standing by the perimeter of one of the voids. 225 00:13:24,876 --> 00:13:26,876 Speaker 1: Ward was pointing at the rows of names of all 226 00:13:26,876 --> 00:13:29,756 Speaker 1: those who died in the attacks. The names are embossed 227 00:13:29,796 --> 00:13:34,436 Speaker 1: in brass and inlaid into the void's stone walls. It's 228 00:13:34,476 --> 00:13:37,636 Speaker 1: meant to be something solid that people can touch. But 229 00:13:37,676 --> 00:13:39,876 Speaker 1: if you're the port authority, you have to think through 230 00:13:39,876 --> 00:13:40,996 Speaker 1: the implications of that. 231 00:13:41,676 --> 00:13:44,916 Speaker 3: Due to the ability for brass to capture heat. 232 00:13:45,796 --> 00:13:48,476 Speaker 5: And then if on a really really hot day someone 233 00:13:48,516 --> 00:13:50,636 Speaker 5: could put their hand down on this, they could get 234 00:13:50,676 --> 00:13:52,876 Speaker 5: literally a second degree burn if the sun had been 235 00:13:52,916 --> 00:13:53,556 Speaker 5: on this all day. 236 00:13:53,836 --> 00:13:56,916 Speaker 3: So there's a cooling system underneath. 237 00:13:56,396 --> 00:14:00,716 Speaker 5: This brass so that it will always stay safe, so 238 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:03,276 Speaker 5: people can end up touching it. At the same time, 239 00:14:03,676 --> 00:14:05,436 Speaker 5: if a little kid in the middle of winter when 240 00:14:05,436 --> 00:14:07,636 Speaker 5: it's freezing, came out here and wanted to stickness tongue 241 00:14:07,676 --> 00:14:09,756 Speaker 5: on it, you know, the famous get stuck to the 242 00:14:09,756 --> 00:14:10,876 Speaker 5: flagpole in the playground. 243 00:14:11,116 --> 00:14:14,116 Speaker 3: So there's a heating system underneath here as well. 244 00:14:14,476 --> 00:14:17,956 Speaker 5: So just to end up showing these names, you've got 245 00:14:17,956 --> 00:14:21,276 Speaker 5: a system which is both heating and cooling a copper 246 00:14:21,516 --> 00:14:23,956 Speaker 5: you know facade here for where the names are atched. 247 00:14:24,076 --> 00:14:26,276 Speaker 1: Well, if you just did concrete, would you have. 248 00:14:28,116 --> 00:14:29,676 Speaker 5: There are a lot of different ways you could have 249 00:14:29,716 --> 00:14:32,876 Speaker 5: put names, you know out there, but this was and 250 00:14:32,916 --> 00:14:35,356 Speaker 5: there they're all backlit as you can see. 251 00:14:35,396 --> 00:14:38,116 Speaker 3: So in some respects, would there. 252 00:14:37,956 --> 00:14:41,716 Speaker 6: Be a more efficient way to have names r absolutely, 253 00:14:41,796 --> 00:14:43,876 Speaker 6: but this is a special site. 254 00:14:48,876 --> 00:14:51,556 Speaker 1: In the end, the price tag for the National September 255 00:14:51,556 --> 00:14:55,436 Speaker 1: eleventh Memorial and Museum came to somewhere around seven hundred 256 00:14:55,516 --> 00:15:00,596 Speaker 1: million dollars. To put that in perspective, the cost of 257 00:15:00,636 --> 00:15:05,316 Speaker 1: the Vietnam Memorial in today's dollars was twenty million. The 258 00:15:05,356 --> 00:15:08,836 Speaker 1: cost of the Lincoln Memorial in today's dollars was forty 259 00:15:08,836 --> 00:15:14,156 Speaker 1: five million. Now, is seven hundred million dollars too much? 260 00:15:14,916 --> 00:15:17,596 Speaker 1: I don't know. It depends on what you're comparing it to. 261 00:15:17,676 --> 00:15:20,316 Speaker 1: I suppose the point is that we could have done 262 00:15:20,316 --> 00:15:24,396 Speaker 1: it for less, but we chose not to because we 263 00:15:24,436 --> 00:15:29,996 Speaker 1: wanted to memorialize that event as perfectly and precisely as possible, 264 00:15:30,596 --> 00:15:36,036 Speaker 1: down to its dimensions, location, and date of completion. When 265 00:15:36,076 --> 00:15:42,596 Speaker 1: we want to we take our memories very seriously. The 266 00:15:42,716 --> 00:15:45,716 Speaker 1: maintenance schedule on that kind of thing must be intense. 267 00:15:45,756 --> 00:15:48,676 Speaker 1: I mean, you're right, you can't fail, right, it's exactly. 268 00:15:48,876 --> 00:15:51,756 Speaker 3: On the ice in the winter issue, right, It's just 269 00:15:52,076 --> 00:15:54,556 Speaker 3: every part of that. Global warming makes it easier. 270 00:15:54,596 --> 00:15:57,196 Speaker 5: So one of the problems is if you'll see the 271 00:15:57,236 --> 00:16:01,676 Speaker 5: way the water flows underneath the perimeter, it's horizontal to 272 00:16:01,756 --> 00:16:04,556 Speaker 5: the ground. Here about the side, you get a heavy 273 00:16:04,556 --> 00:16:07,356 Speaker 5: wind in the wintertime and it whips across the top. 274 00:16:07,676 --> 00:16:11,036 Speaker 5: It picks up moisture and then blows it onto this brick, 275 00:16:11,556 --> 00:16:13,396 Speaker 5: which then potentially creates ice. 276 00:16:13,196 --> 00:16:18,716 Speaker 1: Conditions between keeping the fountains going and security and the 277 00:16:18,716 --> 00:16:22,156 Speaker 1: heating and cooling systems and the museum staff and chipping 278 00:16:22,236 --> 00:16:24,876 Speaker 1: the ice off the brick, the operating budget for the 279 00:16:24,916 --> 00:16:28,876 Speaker 1: memorial comes to another eighty million dollars a year. So 280 00:16:28,956 --> 00:16:32,836 Speaker 1: all told, we're somewhere over one point five billion dollars 281 00:16:32,996 --> 00:16:36,996 Speaker 1: for the memorial so far. The nine to eleven Memorial 282 00:16:37,156 --> 00:16:44,436 Speaker 1: is option number one for memory management. The alternative option 283 00:16:44,556 --> 00:16:48,356 Speaker 1: number two is Jacksonville. 284 00:17:02,476 --> 00:17:05,556 Speaker 7: Do you have your high school Clumbar Jr. 285 00:17:05,596 --> 00:17:09,276 Speaker 3: High School, Dicloma AMA veneer's degree from the University of Connective. Wow, 286 00:17:09,316 --> 00:17:09,956 Speaker 3: what'd you major in? 287 00:17:11,596 --> 00:17:12,996 Speaker 1: Okay? 288 00:17:13,476 --> 00:17:14,756 Speaker 8: Did you ever go to jailer Quicksand? 289 00:17:16,516 --> 00:17:20,556 Speaker 1: I went to Jacksonville, Florida during the count. Every homeless 290 00:17:20,636 --> 00:17:23,476 Speaker 1: organization in the country does this during the last ten 291 00:17:23,556 --> 00:17:26,996 Speaker 1: days of January. Volunteers go out and count the number 292 00:17:27,036 --> 00:17:30,036 Speaker 1: of people living on the streets. The group I went 293 00:17:30,076 --> 00:17:34,236 Speaker 1: to see Changing Homelessness had one hundred and eighty volunteers, 294 00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:39,556 Speaker 1: divided up into shifts morning, afternoon, and evening gathering information. 295 00:17:40,076 --> 00:17:40,956 Speaker 9: What are you working at? 296 00:17:41,516 --> 00:17:46,596 Speaker 3: I work, do someone and do what I already actually do? 297 00:17:47,716 --> 00:17:48,836 Speaker 6: Wherever were Yeah? 298 00:17:49,916 --> 00:17:51,196 Speaker 1: So when you became homeless? 299 00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:52,596 Speaker 3: Did you become homeless? 300 00:17:52,596 --> 00:17:54,236 Speaker 9: Did you like run away from a family? 301 00:17:55,396 --> 00:17:58,076 Speaker 3: Was there violence at home? Any kind of differences? 302 00:17:58,796 --> 00:17:59,156 Speaker 1: Jobs? 303 00:17:59,236 --> 00:18:00,516 Speaker 3: Did you start? 304 00:18:00,836 --> 00:18:01,516 Speaker 7: Okay? 305 00:18:02,596 --> 00:18:05,436 Speaker 1: Jacksonville did its first count more than fifteen years ago 306 00:18:05,916 --> 00:18:08,276 Speaker 1: more as an academic exercise than anything else. 307 00:18:09,116 --> 00:18:12,236 Speaker 7: I honestly thought, we knew, why do we need to 308 00:18:12,236 --> 00:18:12,836 Speaker 7: do a registry? 309 00:18:12,916 --> 00:18:13,036 Speaker 3: Right? 310 00:18:13,076 --> 00:18:13,996 Speaker 7: We know everybody? 311 00:18:14,676 --> 00:18:18,356 Speaker 1: That's Don Gilman, who runs Changing Homelessness. The more they 312 00:18:18,396 --> 00:18:21,116 Speaker 1: thought about this idea of a registry, the more they 313 00:18:21,116 --> 00:18:23,636 Speaker 1: wondered if they were missing people. What if there were 314 00:18:23,716 --> 00:18:26,316 Speaker 1: homeless people out there who never stayed in a shelter 315 00:18:26,716 --> 00:18:29,836 Speaker 1: or who never showed up looking for services. So Gilman 316 00:18:29,916 --> 00:18:31,396 Speaker 1: decided to do a real count. 317 00:18:31,556 --> 00:18:33,516 Speaker 7: So that was the first time we went out when 318 00:18:33,556 --> 00:18:37,036 Speaker 7: it was convenient for our clients and not convenient for us. 319 00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:41,596 Speaker 7: We went out between four and six am on a Tuesday, Wednesday, 320 00:18:41,596 --> 00:18:42,156 Speaker 7: and Thursday. 321 00:18:42,516 --> 00:18:43,076 Speaker 3: Yeah. 322 00:18:43,316 --> 00:18:46,076 Speaker 1: The idea being, if you're on the streets in the 323 00:18:46,076 --> 00:18:47,716 Speaker 1: early morning, you really are homeless. 324 00:18:47,756 --> 00:18:54,676 Speaker 7: You are homeless, that's where you spent the night. 325 00:18:55,516 --> 00:18:58,756 Speaker 1: So now for the count. The volunteers gathered before sunrise 326 00:18:59,316 --> 00:19:02,716 Speaker 1: College students, formerly homeless, people who remember what it was 327 00:19:02,796 --> 00:19:06,396 Speaker 1: like on the streets, teachers helping out before their day starts. 328 00:19:06,796 --> 00:19:13,596 Speaker 1: Nurses from the nearby hospitals. I carry with them hygiene kits, toothpastes, socks, soap, shampoo. 329 00:19:14,516 --> 00:19:19,156 Speaker 1: They fan out across Jacksonville looking under bridges, in park cars, 330 00:19:19,476 --> 00:19:23,196 Speaker 1: in abandoned buildings. If you're sleeping, they leave you alone. 331 00:19:23,476 --> 00:19:29,036 Speaker 1: If you're awake, they ask you questions. What they learn 332 00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:31,956 Speaker 1: gets fed into something called the by name list, and 333 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:34,716 Speaker 1: the data from that list is graft as a scatterplot. 334 00:19:35,396 --> 00:19:38,596 Speaker 1: That was the chart I went down to Jacksonville to see. 335 00:19:38,676 --> 00:19:42,076 Speaker 1: Each homeless person they found is represented by an icon 336 00:19:42,156 --> 00:19:45,916 Speaker 1: on the chart. The vertical axis is a measure of vulnerability. 337 00:19:46,396 --> 00:19:49,196 Speaker 1: Do they have disabilities or mental illness? Can they take 338 00:19:49,196 --> 00:19:52,676 Speaker 1: care of themselves? The horizontal axis measures how long they've 339 00:19:52,716 --> 00:19:55,676 Speaker 1: been without housing. If your name appears down in the 340 00:19:55,756 --> 00:19:59,036 Speaker 1: left hand corner, that means you're pretty healthy and haven't 341 00:19:59,036 --> 00:20:01,396 Speaker 1: been on the streets that long. If you're in the 342 00:20:01,516 --> 00:20:05,196 Speaker 1: upper right hand corner vulnerable and homeless for an extended 343 00:20:05,236 --> 00:20:07,436 Speaker 1: period of time, that's a different story. 344 00:20:07,916 --> 00:20:11,236 Speaker 7: Looking at that scatter plan, it's not dots, it's little people. 345 00:20:11,756 --> 00:20:15,276 Speaker 7: So it's always bringing it back to even though we're 346 00:20:15,316 --> 00:20:18,196 Speaker 7: looking at aggregate data, we're always bringing it back to 347 00:20:18,236 --> 00:20:22,156 Speaker 7: that individual who's experiencing homelessness, so we know their name, 348 00:20:22,356 --> 00:20:23,276 Speaker 7: we know who they are. 349 00:20:25,196 --> 00:20:29,716 Speaker 1: The fundamental condition of homelessness is invisibility. Those on the 350 00:20:29,756 --> 00:20:33,756 Speaker 1: streets are the easiest to ignore and the easiest to forget. 351 00:20:34,396 --> 00:20:37,636 Speaker 1: The scatter plot reminds us who they are, what their 352 00:20:37,676 --> 00:20:41,516 Speaker 1: lives are like, what their needs are. I pointed to 353 00:20:41,556 --> 00:20:44,076 Speaker 1: someone way over on the right hand side, the side 354 00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:47,716 Speaker 1: where the most vulnerable people are clustered. Don Gilman's colleague, 355 00:20:47,756 --> 00:20:50,436 Speaker 1: Charles Temple, recognizes the name right away. 356 00:20:50,876 --> 00:20:54,996 Speaker 8: He's talked about every meeting that we have now that guy, that. 357 00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:57,556 Speaker 7: Guy, because he's our guy. We get him house like 358 00:20:57,596 --> 00:20:58,076 Speaker 7: our whole. 359 00:20:58,316 --> 00:21:00,116 Speaker 8: That drops our whole after time. 360 00:21:00,516 --> 00:21:03,116 Speaker 7: Some of these clients, even if they're not up on 361 00:21:03,156 --> 00:21:08,836 Speaker 7: the vulnerability index, they can be difficult people to work with. 362 00:21:09,516 --> 00:21:12,836 Speaker 1: Some people need all kinds of help. Others really only 363 00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:15,716 Speaker 1: need one thing. Housing But which. 364 00:21:15,476 --> 00:21:17,556 Speaker 7: Which ones are? Clay County guy that's been out there 365 00:21:17,556 --> 00:21:18,356 Speaker 7: for a long time. 366 00:21:18,796 --> 00:21:20,796 Speaker 8: He's been on the list for over a year, and 367 00:21:21,036 --> 00:21:24,236 Speaker 8: like you're saying, there's just nothing out there for him. 368 00:21:24,516 --> 00:21:27,236 Speaker 8: But we bring him up every week, We talk about 369 00:21:27,276 --> 00:21:29,596 Speaker 8: him every week, and actually just last week we may 370 00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:32,916 Speaker 8: have identified a housing resource hud Vash might take him, 371 00:21:33,076 --> 00:21:35,156 Speaker 8: make a waiver and actually accept him through. 372 00:21:36,276 --> 00:21:39,076 Speaker 1: Every Tuesday at one o'clock in the same room where 373 00:21:39,076 --> 00:21:42,276 Speaker 1: I'm sitting all the key housing advocates in Jacksonville gather 374 00:21:42,396 --> 00:21:45,916 Speaker 1: and comb through this list, all the names one by one. 375 00:21:46,556 --> 00:21:50,476 Speaker 7: What's happening? I mean, what is the barrier? Is it 376 00:21:50,516 --> 00:21:53,356 Speaker 7: because they want to stay in a particular part of 377 00:21:53,436 --> 00:21:55,916 Speaker 7: our community and there's not a whole lot of affordable 378 00:21:55,916 --> 00:21:59,436 Speaker 7: housing there? Is it because they have a very recent eviction? 379 00:21:59,676 --> 00:22:02,156 Speaker 7: Is it because they have a very recent or a 380 00:22:02,236 --> 00:22:04,756 Speaker 7: violent felony at some point? And how do we who 381 00:22:04,796 --> 00:22:07,316 Speaker 7: are our landlords that will maybe work with this person? 382 00:22:08,196 --> 00:22:12,076 Speaker 1: The names on the jack list are arranged deliberately. Where 383 00:22:12,116 --> 00:22:15,996 Speaker 1: they fall on the scatterplot gives each name meaning. And 384 00:22:16,076 --> 00:22:18,596 Speaker 1: I was struck as I sat in that conference room 385 00:22:19,036 --> 00:22:21,516 Speaker 1: by how similar that was to the names list at 386 00:22:21,516 --> 00:22:26,236 Speaker 1: the nine to eleven memorial. The victims there suffer from 387 00:22:26,276 --> 00:22:29,276 Speaker 1: the same condition of invisibility, and the list of the 388 00:22:29,356 --> 00:22:31,996 Speaker 1: names around the top of the voids is supposed to 389 00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:39,116 Speaker 1: give them permanence. Why not do it alphabetically like other 390 00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:39,796 Speaker 1: memorials do? 391 00:22:42,276 --> 00:22:46,196 Speaker 9: I think the biggest reason, at least in my mind, 392 00:22:46,436 --> 00:22:50,116 Speaker 9: is you lose so much of the story of these 393 00:22:50,156 --> 00:22:52,396 Speaker 9: people by doing that. 394 00:22:54,116 --> 00:22:56,436 Speaker 1: The job of figuring out which name went where on 395 00:22:56,476 --> 00:23:00,276 Speaker 1: the parapet fell to another architect on Michael Arod's team, 396 00:23:00,836 --> 00:23:01,716 Speaker 1: Amanda Sachs. 397 00:23:02,316 --> 00:23:04,916 Speaker 9: I think it's important to know if they were on 398 00:23:04,956 --> 00:23:08,236 Speaker 9: a plane, if they were in the North Tower or 399 00:23:08,436 --> 00:23:15,276 Speaker 9: South Tower, if they were a first responder. I think 400 00:23:15,396 --> 00:23:19,716 Speaker 9: it adds a level of meaning. It brings meaning to 401 00:23:19,796 --> 00:23:25,636 Speaker 9: their name as much as possible. I also think, you know, 402 00:23:25,676 --> 00:23:28,276 Speaker 9: one of the other reasons, just a very basic reason, 403 00:23:28,636 --> 00:23:30,476 Speaker 9: was there are there are a few people with very 404 00:23:30,556 --> 00:23:36,116 Speaker 9: similar names. There are people with names that only the 405 00:23:36,116 --> 00:23:39,756 Speaker 9: middle name is different. When you list these people alphabetically, 406 00:23:40,636 --> 00:23:44,356 Speaker 9: I think it loses you lose the sense of people 407 00:23:44,396 --> 00:23:45,596 Speaker 9: as individuals. 408 00:23:46,436 --> 00:23:50,036 Speaker 1: The guiding principle of Sex's work was something Michael Arod 409 00:23:50,076 --> 00:23:51,836 Speaker 1: called meaningful adjacency. 410 00:23:52,516 --> 00:23:58,956 Speaker 9: What it means is that every person is placed along 411 00:23:58,996 --> 00:24:03,876 Speaker 9: the parapet in a adjacency with one or two or 412 00:24:03,916 --> 00:24:11,036 Speaker 9: sometimes three people also obviously other victims that they were 413 00:24:11,076 --> 00:24:13,316 Speaker 9: in some way close with. 414 00:24:14,316 --> 00:24:17,316 Speaker 1: Two nine hundred and eighty two people died that day. 415 00:24:17,916 --> 00:24:20,316 Speaker 1: Their names are first grouped according to the floor of 416 00:24:20,356 --> 00:24:22,956 Speaker 1: the tower they worked on, or the plane they were on, 417 00:24:23,516 --> 00:24:26,636 Speaker 1: or if they were emergency rescue the latter company they 418 00:24:26,636 --> 00:24:30,956 Speaker 1: belonged to. Then within those groups, each name of the 419 00:24:31,036 --> 00:24:33,636 Speaker 1: dead was placed nearest to the people who meant the 420 00:24:33,716 --> 00:24:36,796 Speaker 1: most of them. Sachs had to work out each of 421 00:24:36,836 --> 00:24:41,476 Speaker 1: those relationships and determine the patterns behind all those long 422 00:24:41,556 --> 00:24:42,676 Speaker 1: columns of names. 423 00:24:42,996 --> 00:24:47,836 Speaker 9: I would say I spent two years to three years 424 00:24:48,316 --> 00:24:53,196 Speaker 9: on this arrangement just trying to understand the relationships, trying 425 00:24:53,236 --> 00:24:56,516 Speaker 9: to do these kind of tests and see how it 426 00:24:56,556 --> 00:24:57,156 Speaker 9: would work. 427 00:24:57,436 --> 00:25:03,756 Speaker 1: And were there any adjacencies that were particularly meaningful. 428 00:25:04,956 --> 00:25:09,796 Speaker 9: I have to say, I think for me, the whole 429 00:25:09,876 --> 00:25:17,156 Speaker 9: I mean, every every person on that memorial was I'm sorry, 430 00:25:17,196 --> 00:25:22,716 Speaker 9: I'm getting emotional. I can't say that any any adjacency 431 00:25:22,876 --> 00:25:29,916 Speaker 9: had any more important than than any other. I mean, 432 00:25:29,956 --> 00:25:37,036 Speaker 9: some stories are, you know, you think the kind of crazy, like, 433 00:25:37,236 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 9: for example, that there were two women on Fight one 434 00:25:41,276 --> 00:25:47,356 Speaker 9: seventy five and there was another woman on Fight eleven, 435 00:25:47,436 --> 00:25:52,316 Speaker 9: and I can't remember exactly what their relationship was, but 436 00:25:52,676 --> 00:25:55,236 Speaker 9: I think one of them was the godparents of the other. 437 00:25:55,396 --> 00:25:57,796 Speaker 9: And you know, Flight eleven went into the North tower 438 00:25:57,796 --> 00:26:05,436 Speaker 9: and Flight on seventy five was went into the South tower, 439 00:26:05,476 --> 00:26:07,276 Speaker 9: and the fact that there were people that knew each 440 00:26:07,276 --> 00:26:11,196 Speaker 9: other on those planes is insane. 441 00:26:11,916 --> 00:26:13,996 Speaker 1: Sax wanted to find a way to put the names 442 00:26:13,996 --> 00:26:17,516 Speaker 1: of those two people as close together as possible, maybe 443 00:26:17,556 --> 00:26:19,236 Speaker 1: at the point at which the group of names who 444 00:26:19,316 --> 00:26:21,796 Speaker 1: died in the North tower touched the group of names 445 00:26:21,796 --> 00:26:23,236 Speaker 1: from the South tower. 446 00:26:23,476 --> 00:26:28,396 Speaker 9: We actually wanted them to be ad as adjacent as possible, 447 00:26:28,436 --> 00:26:30,516 Speaker 9: So we wanted the one in the North pool to 448 00:26:30,556 --> 00:26:34,716 Speaker 9: be on the lower right hand corner, and the South 449 00:26:34,756 --> 00:26:40,076 Speaker 9: pool would anyway be towards the upper the north west corner. 450 00:26:40,836 --> 00:26:43,156 Speaker 1: She tried a hundred different ways to plant it out, 451 00:26:43,796 --> 00:26:44,836 Speaker 1: couldn't make it work. 452 00:26:45,276 --> 00:26:49,156 Speaker 9: So, yeah, that's kind of sad. The one adjacency that 453 00:26:49,196 --> 00:26:54,796 Speaker 9: we didn't get is the one that I'm that I'm remembering. Yeah, 454 00:26:55,316 --> 00:26:59,436 Speaker 9: but I just, you know, as I said before, just 455 00:26:59,596 --> 00:27:05,036 Speaker 9: every name, every person has so much importance. I can't 456 00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:06,916 Speaker 9: really say otherwise. 457 00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:13,756 Speaker 1: We have a memorial for the dead at ground Zero, 458 00:27:14,276 --> 00:27:17,996 Speaker 1: arranged according to their relationships, and we have a memorial 459 00:27:18,076 --> 00:27:21,956 Speaker 1: for the living in Jacksonville, a scatterplot of the homeless, 460 00:27:22,316 --> 00:27:27,036 Speaker 1: arranged according to their needs. Two memorials with the same intent, 461 00:27:28,156 --> 00:27:32,316 Speaker 1: because when we add context to names, names become real. 462 00:27:35,276 --> 00:27:38,956 Speaker 1: But of course, once you start reflecting on the similarities 463 00:27:38,996 --> 00:27:44,596 Speaker 1: between Ground Zero and Jacksonville, then inevitably you start thinking 464 00:27:44,636 --> 00:27:47,236 Speaker 1: about the differences. 465 00:27:56,916 --> 00:28:00,716 Speaker 2: Initially, I was actually drawn to eastern white pine trees. 466 00:28:00,716 --> 00:28:04,236 Speaker 2: They're very tall, towering, and there was just some an 467 00:28:04,236 --> 00:28:09,876 Speaker 2: evergreen and read somewhere description of them describe a sort 468 00:28:09,876 --> 00:28:12,156 Speaker 2: of the towering giants of the forest. 469 00:28:12,996 --> 00:28:16,196 Speaker 1: Michael Arod was told his original design for the nine 470 00:28:16,196 --> 00:28:19,756 Speaker 1: to eleven Memorial was too bleak, two voids on an 471 00:28:19,756 --> 00:28:23,916 Speaker 1: empty windswept plaza, so he decided to add trees. 472 00:28:24,516 --> 00:28:26,596 Speaker 2: And I thought there was something beautiful about the idea 473 00:28:26,636 --> 00:28:30,236 Speaker 2: of actually them directing your gaze upward toward the sky 474 00:28:30,396 --> 00:28:34,396 Speaker 2: while you were there, and developed a design that had 475 00:28:34,396 --> 00:28:38,396 Speaker 2: about seventy or eighty of them on the plaza, but 476 00:28:38,476 --> 00:28:41,236 Speaker 2: that you know, didn't feel quite right enough. 477 00:28:42,316 --> 00:28:45,396 Speaker 1: A Rod deliberated with his partner in the memorial's design, 478 00:28:45,876 --> 00:28:50,876 Speaker 1: the landscape architect Peter Walker. They settled on swamp white oaks, 479 00:28:51,556 --> 00:28:56,116 Speaker 1: a gorgeous tree, peeling bark, lustrous, lobed, two toned leaves, 480 00:28:56,516 --> 00:29:01,276 Speaker 1: green with a silvery underside. But then, of course it 481 00:29:01,356 --> 00:29:04,116 Speaker 1: was left to the port Authority, to David Tweety and 482 00:29:04,196 --> 00:29:07,076 Speaker 1: Chris Ward to figure out how to plant a forest 483 00:29:07,436 --> 00:29:09,076 Speaker 1: suspended atop a transit hub. 484 00:29:10,196 --> 00:29:13,796 Speaker 3: So then adding all of these trees of these trees. 485 00:29:14,076 --> 00:29:18,436 Speaker 5: Yeah, delayed for at least a year figuring out the 486 00:29:18,476 --> 00:29:21,156 Speaker 5: engineering to put all these tree pots. It's hard to 487 00:29:21,196 --> 00:29:23,196 Speaker 5: put all these trees in when it's not a dirt 488 00:29:23,436 --> 00:29:26,116 Speaker 5: necessary and the moisture that goes into the. 489 00:29:26,036 --> 00:29:29,596 Speaker 3: Dirt, and the weight because there's. 490 00:29:28,676 --> 00:29:31,316 Speaker 6: A void underneath ten dollars of a different structure, of 491 00:29:31,596 --> 00:29:34,676 Speaker 6: additional structural support on the hub buildings under. 492 00:29:34,716 --> 00:29:37,076 Speaker 1: Forty million just to support the weight of the trees. 493 00:29:37,916 --> 00:29:39,076 Speaker 1: And how many trees are. 494 00:29:38,916 --> 00:29:43,996 Speaker 3: There, We're going to say three and sixty and sixty 495 00:29:44,276 --> 00:29:47,636 Speaker 3: to each each tree. So here's a tree here? What what? What? 496 00:29:47,636 --> 00:29:52,356 Speaker 3: What's between the box and there's literally man made. 497 00:29:52,196 --> 00:29:56,036 Speaker 5: Dirt which is super light compared to nature made dirt 498 00:29:56,236 --> 00:29:59,196 Speaker 5: with a material in it which allows it to capture 499 00:29:59,276 --> 00:30:02,156 Speaker 5: moisture to be very efficient for maintaining the health of 500 00:30:02,196 --> 00:30:02,716 Speaker 5: the trees. 501 00:30:02,996 --> 00:30:04,516 Speaker 3: But each box has. 502 00:30:04,356 --> 00:30:07,476 Speaker 5: Its own moisture reader inside of it, so they can 503 00:30:07,516 --> 00:30:11,156 Speaker 5: tell you know when it's you know, the tree is threatened. 504 00:30:11,196 --> 00:30:13,196 Speaker 5: So you've got in each little part of it. You've 505 00:30:13,196 --> 00:30:16,316 Speaker 5: got this amount of technology to put anywhere else. You go, 506 00:30:16,436 --> 00:30:18,996 Speaker 5: oh my god, this is These are just trees. 507 00:30:19,316 --> 00:30:24,356 Speaker 1: But not just trees, perfect trees, peeling bark, lustrous slope, 508 00:30:24,396 --> 00:30:27,676 Speaker 1: two toned leaves, trees that are fed and cared for, 509 00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:29,916 Speaker 1: and each given their own place to live. 510 00:30:30,516 --> 00:30:33,876 Speaker 3: How big is the box? Ooh? Probably out to like 511 00:30:33,996 --> 00:30:38,556 Speaker 3: fear so like ten by ten, ten by twelve. 512 00:30:39,116 --> 00:30:41,996 Speaker 5: And the problem was when you began to move them 513 00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:46,956 Speaker 5: over areas where it was there was less infrastructure underneath it, 514 00:30:46,876 --> 00:30:49,916 Speaker 5: it got even more expensive to build the box and 515 00:30:49,956 --> 00:30:52,876 Speaker 5: then bring this infrastructure to support the. 516 00:30:52,836 --> 00:30:58,556 Speaker 1: Box trees with an expensive, bespoke, carefully engineered social support system. 517 00:30:59,396 --> 00:31:04,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, but again that was driven from good will you 518 00:31:04,836 --> 00:31:05,396 Speaker 3: turn that off? 519 00:31:05,396 --> 00:31:09,996 Speaker 1: As suddenly a security guard came running up. Apparently we 520 00:31:10,036 --> 00:31:14,756 Speaker 1: needed authorization to conduct our interview. The attention to detail 521 00:31:15,156 --> 00:31:17,956 Speaker 1: at the nine to eleven Memorial extends even to when 522 00:31:18,036 --> 00:31:21,356 Speaker 1: and how you are allowed to engage in recorded conversation. 523 00:31:22,436 --> 00:31:24,356 Speaker 3: These are the guys who built this whole thing. I 524 00:31:24,396 --> 00:31:26,996 Speaker 3: was the executive director of the port authority. They ran, 525 00:31:29,116 --> 00:31:31,956 Speaker 3: if we just talk to a police officer real quick? 526 00:31:32,836 --> 00:31:35,636 Speaker 7: Yes, But unfortunately the media department does not work and 527 00:31:36,036 --> 00:31:40,516 Speaker 7: they but yeah. 528 00:31:40,556 --> 00:31:43,316 Speaker 1: We ended up leaving the memorial plaza for the sidewalk 529 00:31:43,636 --> 00:31:53,396 Speaker 1: fifty yards away. We stood in the rain and looked 530 00:31:53,436 --> 00:31:57,516 Speaker 1: back at the exacting beauty of this act of collective memory. 531 00:31:58,116 --> 00:32:03,036 Speaker 1: The nine eleven memorial is perfect, but the Jacksonville Memorial 532 00:32:03,516 --> 00:32:08,996 Speaker 1: is not. It's messy, a work in progress. Names get 533 00:32:09,196 --> 00:32:11,876 Speaker 1: taking off the list when people find apartments or move away, 534 00:32:12,636 --> 00:32:15,316 Speaker 1: and new people get added to the list all the time. 535 00:32:16,356 --> 00:32:19,876 Speaker 1: Do the exits stay ahead of the entries. 536 00:32:20,036 --> 00:32:22,916 Speaker 8: We do measure our inflow outflow on a regular basis, 537 00:32:22,956 --> 00:32:28,476 Speaker 8: and we want to see our inflow less than our outflow. 538 00:32:28,796 --> 00:32:33,236 Speaker 8: But we are teetering pretty much on the same amount 539 00:32:33,356 --> 00:32:36,796 Speaker 8: that we are exiting. We're the ones we are housing. 540 00:32:37,076 --> 00:32:39,036 Speaker 8: It's the same amount that we are seeing. So it's 541 00:32:39,076 --> 00:32:42,276 Speaker 8: pretty close. But I think there's still a gap in there. 542 00:32:42,476 --> 00:32:47,316 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're not over time. The rumber is not. 543 00:32:48,956 --> 00:32:52,876 Speaker 7: It is shrinking, but it is painfully slow. 544 00:32:53,596 --> 00:32:56,076 Speaker 1: There's no mystery why it's painfully slow. 545 00:32:56,996 --> 00:33:02,076 Speaker 7: We would love to master lease one hundred one bedroom 546 00:33:02,156 --> 00:33:04,836 Speaker 7: units that are at a price point that our rapid 547 00:33:04,876 --> 00:33:10,076 Speaker 7: rehousing clients could reasonably maintain, and we just can't find them. 548 00:33:10,676 --> 00:33:12,996 Speaker 7: There were a number of years, well where I've been here, 549 00:33:13,036 --> 00:33:14,916 Speaker 7: I think while you were been doing this too, where 550 00:33:14,916 --> 00:33:18,196 Speaker 7: we could find those they existed. They were out there, 551 00:33:20,596 --> 00:33:24,236 Speaker 7: like many other places some of those older units. They're 552 00:33:24,676 --> 00:33:28,556 Speaker 7: quirky and interesting. They're starting to get rehammed. The rents 553 00:33:28,596 --> 00:33:30,756 Speaker 7: will go up, and then the people that used to 554 00:33:30,796 --> 00:33:33,676 Speaker 7: be able to afford them cannot anymore. 555 00:33:34,556 --> 00:33:37,276 Speaker 1: Gilman said that right now she can find the money 556 00:33:37,276 --> 00:33:39,396 Speaker 1: to put her clients in apartments that run for up 557 00:33:39,396 --> 00:33:42,316 Speaker 1: to six hundred and fifty dollars a month, but there 558 00:33:42,356 --> 00:33:46,316 Speaker 1: just aren't any apartments in that range in Jacksonville. If 559 00:33:46,316 --> 00:33:48,436 Speaker 1: she could find the money for an eight hundred dollars 560 00:33:48,436 --> 00:33:52,156 Speaker 1: a month apartment, it would make things far easier. But 561 00:33:52,276 --> 00:33:54,076 Speaker 1: where are you going to find an extra one hundred 562 00:33:54,116 --> 00:33:56,796 Speaker 1: and fifty dollars a month? Who has that kind of 563 00:33:56,796 --> 00:33:57,956 Speaker 1: money lying around? 564 00:33:59,076 --> 00:34:02,196 Speaker 7: We are hitting the wall. We really now as a 565 00:34:02,236 --> 00:34:06,876 Speaker 7: community have to pay attention to this. If our goal 566 00:34:07,036 --> 00:34:09,756 Speaker 7: is to have fewer people out on the street instead 567 00:34:09,756 --> 00:34:12,316 Speaker 7: of more, we got to start figuring out how do 568 00:34:12,436 --> 00:34:16,916 Speaker 7: we build more deeply affordable housing faster. 569 00:34:18,516 --> 00:34:20,796 Speaker 1: Some portion of the people who do not get help 570 00:34:21,396 --> 00:34:25,196 Speaker 1: end up dying on the streets. Almost every community in 571 00:34:25,196 --> 00:34:28,436 Speaker 1: the country has a service for those who've fallen. It 572 00:34:28,476 --> 00:34:32,116 Speaker 1: happens in late December on Winter Solstice. It's become a 573 00:34:32,156 --> 00:34:37,356 Speaker 1: tradition in Jacksonville. The service is held at the City 574 00:34:37,396 --> 00:34:42,516 Speaker 1: Rescue Mission downtown. A choir sings, a local pastor gives 575 00:34:42,556 --> 00:34:47,396 Speaker 1: the homily, then don Gilman performs her final duty of 576 00:34:47,436 --> 00:34:47,796 Speaker 1: the year. 577 00:34:48,676 --> 00:34:50,636 Speaker 7: I've had the honor for the last ten years of 578 00:34:50,756 --> 00:34:53,636 Speaker 7: reading the names, and the list is always too long. 579 00:34:53,716 --> 00:34:57,116 Speaker 7: And before I read the name, I remind everybody that 580 00:34:57,196 --> 00:35:01,196 Speaker 7: there are six categories of homeless people, and that someone's 581 00:35:01,236 --> 00:35:07,396 Speaker 7: mother or someone's father, someone's son, or someone's daughter, or 582 00:35:07,476 --> 00:35:08,716 Speaker 7: their sister or their brother. 583 00:35:09,236 --> 00:35:11,556 Speaker 3: It's more than. 584 00:35:13,556 --> 00:35:15,356 Speaker 7: Dots on a scattered plot. 585 00:35:17,116 --> 00:35:19,516 Speaker 1: How many people were on the list last in December? 586 00:35:19,676 --> 00:35:23,836 Speaker 7: This December thirty thirty six, thirty six. 587 00:35:28,076 --> 00:35:31,556 Speaker 1: The optimist in me always thought that the ultimate purpose 588 00:35:31,596 --> 00:35:34,476 Speaker 1: of memorials was that they were dress rehearsals for our 589 00:35:34,516 --> 00:35:37,756 Speaker 1: collective memory, that in the course of building a shrine 590 00:35:37,756 --> 00:35:41,676 Speaker 1: to the fallen, we reminded ourselves of our broader obligations 591 00:35:41,956 --> 00:35:46,276 Speaker 1: to the vulnerable. You give the benefit of your empathy 592 00:35:46,436 --> 00:35:49,276 Speaker 1: and generosity to the memory of someone who was on 593 00:35:49,316 --> 00:35:52,596 Speaker 1: a plane hijacked by terrorists, or to the memory of 594 00:35:52,596 --> 00:35:56,356 Speaker 1: someone who worked in a toppled tower, and then it 595 00:35:56,436 --> 00:36:00,276 Speaker 1: becomes easier to extend that empathy and generosity to the 596 00:36:00,316 --> 00:36:05,116 Speaker 1: lonely and the suffering who are still among us. You 597 00:36:05,156 --> 00:36:08,636 Speaker 1: get good at meaningful adjacency for the dead, and that 598 00:36:08,716 --> 00:36:13,436 Speaker 1: makes you better at practicing it on the living. But 599 00:36:13,476 --> 00:36:18,516 Speaker 1: that's not what happens, is it. We go to any length, 600 00:36:18,636 --> 00:36:22,836 Speaker 1: any length, to commemorate one person's death, deploy armies of 601 00:36:22,916 --> 00:36:27,636 Speaker 1: architects and engineers, then, in the same breath, look the 602 00:36:27,676 --> 00:36:30,796 Speaker 1: other way as we step over someone lying on the street. 603 00:36:33,116 --> 00:36:38,116 Speaker 1: A gorgeous mausoleum for the dead, A scatterplot for the living. 604 00:36:42,476 --> 00:36:49,556 Speaker 3: Crystal Ponzer, age thirty two. Sam Sadowski, aged twenty five. 605 00:36:51,156 --> 00:36:55,036 Speaker 1: I went home from Jacksonville and spent an afternoon watching 606 00:36:55,076 --> 00:37:02,596 Speaker 1: Winter Solstice services on YouTube. Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Spokane, San Francisco. 607 00:37:05,036 --> 00:37:08,076 Speaker 1: Small groups of people huddled together in the cold of 608 00:37:08,116 --> 00:37:11,796 Speaker 1: a December night, holding candles, singing hymns. 609 00:37:17,596 --> 00:37:23,876 Speaker 3: Margaret, Josephine Thompson, Jacko Hudson, Margarita. 610 00:37:24,156 --> 00:37:28,156 Speaker 1: Then he's reading the names of the dead, hundreds of them. 611 00:37:28,276 --> 00:37:37,676 Speaker 8: George Randall Solivar, aged twenty three, Edward Wound age forty. 612 00:37:37,356 --> 00:37:43,236 Speaker 3: Seven, unknown, unknown unknown. 613 00:37:47,236 --> 00:38:25,356 Speaker 1: I watched until I couldn't anymore. Then I wept. Revisionist 614 00:38:25,396 --> 00:38:28,756 Speaker 1: history is produced by Meela Bell and Leeman Gestou with 615 00:38:28,916 --> 00:38:33,556 Speaker 1: Jacob Smith, Eloise Linton and on A naim Our. Editor 616 00:38:33,596 --> 00:38:37,756 Speaker 1: is Julia Barton. Original scoring by Luis Garra, mastering by 617 00:38:37,796 --> 00:38:43,876 Speaker 1: Flon Williams, fact checking by Beth Johnson. Special thanks to 618 00:38:43,916 --> 00:38:48,956 Speaker 1: the Pushkin crew Heather Feine, Carl Migliori, Maya Kaynig, Eric Sandler, 619 00:38:49,036 --> 00:38:55,356 Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Jason Gambrell and of course Jacob Weisberg, and 620 00:38:55,436 --> 00:38:58,516 Speaker 1: from everyone here at Pushkin, thank you for listening to 621 00:38:58,596 --> 00:39:02,316 Speaker 1: another season of revisionist history. You other reason we have 622 00:39:02,396 --> 00:39:11,676 Speaker 1: the privilege of revising history every year. I'm Malcolm glampadettor