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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this

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Speaker 1: is there Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: We need to.

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Speaker 1: Talk about Candace Owens because and I can't believe I'm

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Speaker 1: saying this is she kind of making a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Of sense now.

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Speaker 1: So last week on her podcast, Candace called out President

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. She criticized Trump's attacks on Harvard University, saying

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Speaker 1: I never thought I'd see the day where I'd be

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Speaker 1: rooting for our university over Donald J. Trump and his administration.

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Speaker 1: But I don't recognize this administration right now. I don't

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Speaker 1: recognize what's happening. So at face value, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: she's kind of defending free speech. And yeah, you might

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Speaker 1: be wondering, am I actually agreeing with Candace Owens a

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Speaker 1: little bit? But hold up, don't get too comfortable, because

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Speaker 1: this is not a change of heart for Candace Owens.

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Speaker 1: It's a strategy Candace Owens, I think, is rebranding, and

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Speaker 1: like always, she's using things like outrage and celebrity scandal

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Speaker 1: to do it. In this episode, I dive into how

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Speaker 1: Candace Owens is leveraging lawsuits like the one involving Blake

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Speaker 1: Lively and Justin Buldani In the fallout of the film,

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Speaker 1: it starts with us to package her politics for a softer,

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Speaker 1: maybe less familiar audience. It's the same noxious content, just

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Speaker 1: with a new code of paint. I broke down her

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Speaker 1: playbook to my friends Samantha and Andy over at the

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Speaker 1: podcast stuff Mom never.

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Speaker 3: Told you.

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Speaker 1: We are talking about the one the only Candace Owens

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Speaker 1: speaking of villains, have my kidding, We'll see so like

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Speaker 1: I should say, upcot like I am weirdly fascinated with her.

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Speaker 1: What do you all have thoughts? She's somebody who who's

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Speaker 1: on your radar? What is your experience, what are your

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Speaker 1: experiences with Candace Owens?

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Speaker 3: Or do you have any.

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Speaker 4: Uh minor negative? Negative?

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Speaker 5: But I most of most stuff I know is more recent,

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Speaker 5: and I didn't know a lot of what I know

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Speaker 5: we're going.

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Speaker 4: To talk about in here.

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Speaker 5: But I will say generally she's someone I'm very aware

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Speaker 5: of and that have a lot of negative associations with.

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Speaker 2: I will say, yes, I do know of her.

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Speaker 3: Of course.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that I immediately put me on

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Speaker 2: high alert is that she is one person that my

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Speaker 2: racist Trump supporting backwards brother has used as a token

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Speaker 2: in saying, see, we love black people.

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Speaker 1: Oh that is like that that has probably been the

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Speaker 1: experience of so many folks listening. And I guess what

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about today might actually answer why.

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Speaker 1: That is because she is someone that people in my

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Speaker 1: life have like cited or mentioned or like, oh I

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Speaker 1: saw I saw Candace Owens talking about this, and I'm like, what,

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Speaker 1: Like why are you watching Candace own where listening to

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Speaker 1: her podcast? So like I am like weirdly fascinated by her.

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Speaker 1: She is somebody who has a legitimately fascinating story and

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Speaker 1: like where like from where she started to where she

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Speaker 1: wound up, I just find deeply interesting. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to focus too much on her like personal background, but

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Speaker 1: there are some pieces of her early story that I

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Speaker 1: do think are important context for like understanding who she

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Speaker 1: is and sort of the role she has gone on.

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Speaker 3: To occupy in the world.

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Speaker 1: So, Owen's grew up in Stanford, Connecticut, and while she

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Speaker 1: was a high school student there, she was like racially

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Speaker 1: harassed in a pretty gnarly way. A classmate left her

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Speaker 1: a racist death threat on her voicemail that ended up

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Speaker 1: turning into like a pretty serious local scandal because it

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Speaker 1: turned out the person her classmate that left that voicemail

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Speaker 1: did so in a group of students that included the

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Speaker 1: son of the then mayor and future Democratic governor of Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Maloy. So it got it was really really up

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Speaker 1: into like a little bit of a scandal. Kendace got

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Speaker 1: lots of support from the local chapter of Racial Justice

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Speaker 1: Organizations at the NAACP, and our family ended up suing

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Speaker 1: the Stanford Board of Education in federal court for failing

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Speaker 1: to protect her rights, which resulted in a thirty seven,

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Speaker 1: five hundred dollars settlement. After that, she goes on to

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Speaker 1: study journalism at University of Rhode Island before dropping out.

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Speaker 1: So this is really the part of her story where

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Speaker 1: I have to be honest. I see some parallels between

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Speaker 1: me and her. You know, we're both black women who

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Speaker 1: were sort of early adopters of the Internet to talk

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Speaker 1: about things like race and culture and politics like me.

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Speaker 3: For her, that seems to have.

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Speaker 1: Manifested in a lot of like low hanging fruit posts

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Speaker 1: about you know, politics, like dumb jokes, like you know,

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Speaker 1: the early days of blogging about politics online, it really

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Speaker 1: was dumb jokes was like and like stupid memes were

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Speaker 1: the lifeblood of that. And so in twenty fifteen she

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Speaker 1: was writing blogs making fun of Trump's penis size to

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Speaker 1: give you a sense of the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: she was writing about, which honestly is something I would I.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't doing that, but I could see myself.

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Speaker 4: Doing it great.

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Speaker 2: I would definitely chuckle yeah if I saw it.

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Speaker 1: So some people might be surprised to know that Candice

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Speaker 1: actually started her career as like a public intellectual or

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Speaker 1: republic opinion have or commentator or whatever you want to

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Speaker 1: call it, as a leftist, like a progressive. In twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: she was writing this blog called Degree one point eighty

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Speaker 1: where she wrote pieces criticizing conservative Republicans, writing about quote

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Speaker 1: the back crazy antics of the Republican tea Party. Something

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Speaker 1: that she wrote in her blog was quote the good

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Speaker 1: news is they will eventually die off peacefully in their sleep,

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Speaker 1: we hope, and then we can get right on with

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Speaker 1: the obvious social change that needs to happen immediately. So

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Speaker 1: you really get a sense of her as someone who

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Speaker 1: was just like young Obama era progressive using the early Internet,

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Speaker 1: blogging and things like that to really put her voice,

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Speaker 1: in her perspective into the world again.

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Speaker 3: Something that I, frankly I can really see myself in.

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Speaker 2: Is it surprising? It is, I guess her origins just

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Speaker 2: I just knew as you came out swinging on the

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Speaker 2: opposite end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what's interesting about that, and I can definitely

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Speaker 1: speak from my own experience here, is that I connected

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Speaker 1: with a lot of her early writing when she was

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Speaker 1: still sort of like writing about the tea party and

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but certainly nobody knew who, Like she

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Speaker 1: wasn't like a known voice or a no name right

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Speaker 1: And I do think it speaks to the fact that,

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Speaker 1: like when she switched up her ideology and her perspective

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Speaker 1: and what she was talking about, she got so much

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Speaker 1: more attention. Like I like, as a black woman leftist

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Speaker 1: who talks about you know, lefty stuff on the internet,

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Speaker 1: where are a diamad dozen, nobody is really paying that

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Speaker 1: much attention. But when you when you do the switch up,

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Speaker 1: you really become a much bigger name, and you get

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Speaker 1: a lot more attention and a lot more engagement. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's a lot more lucrative to be a

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Speaker 1: black woman right winger than it is to be a

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Speaker 1: black woman leftist.

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Speaker 4: I was actually reading about this recently.

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Speaker 5: Is the shadow of gamer Gate when it comes to

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Speaker 5: the Internet, and how it looks today and how it's

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Speaker 5: still like the impacts, just the fallout of it is

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Speaker 5: still here.

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Speaker 4: And that was a part of candice own story.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, so I am like you Annie, gamer Gate

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Speaker 1: and everything surrounding it is my Roman empire. It is

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Speaker 1: the thing that keeps me up. And I did a

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Speaker 1: whole series with cool Zone Media about how gamer Gate

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Speaker 1: and just general harassment against women and women of color

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Speaker 1: and minoritize people. You could draw a direct line from

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Speaker 1: that to like our political and social climate today, Like

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Speaker 1: this is the stuff that I am like making a

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Speaker 1: stringboard abad and being like and then this happened, and

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Speaker 1: then that happened, and then ten years later this happened,

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Speaker 1: Like this is my white whale. And Candace Owens was

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Speaker 1: really like, this was a gamer Gate was really sort

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Speaker 1: of like, well mean, she describes it as like a

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Speaker 1: radicalizing moment for her. So in twenty sixteen, when Gamergate

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Speaker 1: was in full swing, Owens launched a Kickstarter for a

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Speaker 1: project she called Social Autopsy, which she described as a

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Speaker 1: way to catalog the abuses of trolls and cyberbullies online.

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Speaker 1: The Kickstarter for this project is still up today. Here's

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Speaker 1: a little taste of Owen's describing it in her own words.

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Speaker 6: It takes a nanosecond, a mere push of a button,

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Speaker 6: to share our ideas, opinions, and emotions across the world instantly.

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Speaker 6: But for every cat meme, your best friend tweets at you,

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Speaker 6: every I miss you comment, your grandma leaves on your

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Speaker 6: Facebook wall, there are literally thousands of instances of hate

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Speaker 6: speech being circulated online because when communication happens through a screen,

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Speaker 6: and when moments are experienced through relents, a terrifying extraction

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Speaker 6: takes place.

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Speaker 3: The age of.

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Speaker 6: Technology and social media has slowly disintegrated individual accountability, the

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Speaker 6: consequences of which are devastating.

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Speaker 3: So that should give you a little bit of an

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Speaker 3: idea of what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because it really feels like a time capsule

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Speaker 1: from a different time, you know, Like hearing Candice Owens

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Speaker 1: talk about how bad things like hate speech are and

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Speaker 1: how it's dividing us is like just very interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, throw off, Like like wait what same persons?

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Speaker 1: Okay, No, So the plan for Social Autopsy was basically

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Speaker 1: it was a project meant to like de anonymize online

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Speaker 1: common and then connect them with their real life names

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Speaker 1: and then real life employers. And it's funny because this

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Speaker 1: is still an argument that people make when they want

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Speaker 1: to restrict the Internet today, that like all the problems

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Speaker 1: that happen on the Internet, from harassment to child exploitation material,

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Speaker 1: all of that could all be solved if you needed,

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Speaker 1: like your government ID to access the Internet. And so

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Speaker 1: it's funny how these ideas, there are people pushing that

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Speaker 1: concept today and even I mean, like some people who

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Speaker 1: are well meaning but in my opinion, incorrect, are still

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Speaker 1: pushing that idea. And so it's funny how some of

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Speaker 1: these ideas never really die. They're just recycled. Like Cannonce

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Speaker 1: Owen's was talking about this in twenty sixteen, and here

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Speaker 1: we are in twenty twenty five, still talking about it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes we are.

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Speaker 5: But oh my goodness, speaking of things, we're still talking

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Speaker 5: about Another thing we've talked about a lot on this show.

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Speaker 5: Another thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is

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Speaker 5: the radicalization that can happened online. And Candace Owens kind

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Speaker 5: of talks about this. This is sort of her experience

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Speaker 5: with Gagate.

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Speaker 1: So when she exactly that, So when she came out

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Speaker 1: with Social Autopsy, pretty much everybody hated it right, like

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Speaker 1: it was like a universal digital boo or like thumbs down.

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Speaker 1: And one of the people who was like really not

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Speaker 1: into this idea was Zoe Quinn, whose name you might

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Speaker 1: know if you know about Gamergate, because she was someone

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Speaker 1: who was pretty viciously attacked in Gamergate. So after all

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Speaker 1: of the backlash from this project that Candace tried to

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Speaker 1: put out into the world via Kickstarter, she herself was

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Speaker 1: doxed and harassed, and Candace actually blamed Zoe Quinn and

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Speaker 1: other feminists for this harassment and started saying so publicly,

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Speaker 1: you can probably guess who.

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Speaker 3: Loved this and like seized on it.

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Speaker 1: That's right, people like Miloianapolis, people who were promoters of

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Speaker 1: Gamergate and like doing the harassment of Gamergate really hyped

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Speaker 1: up Owens's that, Yeah, it's the feminists who are the

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Speaker 1: ones who were doing the actual online harassment, not you know,

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Speaker 1: these gamer bros and like right wingers. It's actually feminists

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Speaker 1: who are the bad guys here. And this event Owen's

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Speaker 1: credits with her turn from progressive to being what she

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Speaker 1: calls a red pilled radical. She says, quote, I became

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Speaker 1: a conservative overnight. I realized that liberals were actually the racists.

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Speaker 1: Liberals were actually the trolls, and so Annie, you're exactly

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Speaker 1: right that. Like, she describes this as like an overnight

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Speaker 1: turning point of her going from being a progressive who

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Speaker 1: was collaborating with the NAACP and writing about how awful

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Speaker 1: Republicans and Trump and the Tea Party Republicans were to

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Speaker 1: like overnight waking up and being like, no, it is

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Speaker 1: liberals who are the real enemy.

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Speaker 2: I have so many thoughts because I don't I was

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Speaker 2: not a part of the gamergate world. Like I did

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Speaker 2: not understand what was happening out there in the internets

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Speaker 2: because I was case managing and like groveling in my

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Speaker 2: own like everything's worse. But like her being dogs and

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Speaker 2: all this, because I'm sure just as many like people

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Speaker 2: who were feminists and who were victims of gamer gait

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Speaker 2: and such, there were more probably jerks out there who

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Speaker 2: were like, no, we were definitely against this idea and

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Speaker 2: harassing her because they don't want their name out there,

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Speaker 2: which is what she was trying to do, right, So,

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Speaker 2: but she just picked a group, Like, no, it's definitely

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Speaker 2: after she got so much support totally.

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Speaker 1: So my understanding is that, like and if folks listening

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Speaker 1: are like I was there. Remember, as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: this was like feminists having good faith disagreement with Candace's project,

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Speaker 1: and then Candace probably pumped up by some of these

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Speaker 1: like right wing bro gamer guys who were behind a

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Speaker 1: lot of this harassment and like we have all the

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Speaker 1: receipts for that, probably pumped up by some of them

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Speaker 1: just like just like assumed that these feminists were the

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Speaker 1: ones behind it. So like, as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: she this was not a documented thing. But you know, certainly,

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Speaker 1: like like I was, I was like pretty in.

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Speaker 3: The mix on the internet in these days.

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Speaker 1: Certainly this feud between Candace Owens and feminists like Zoquinn

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Speaker 1: about Gamergate was something that like got her name into

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Speaker 1: the conversation in a way that I don't think it

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Speaker 1: had been before.

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Speaker 2: And for a lot of attention seekers. Not that she

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Speaker 2: is I don't know this person. I don't know Candas

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Speaker 2: Owens in real life. But if this is what we're seeing,

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Speaker 2: negative tension is just as good as Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's so interesting that you say this because She's

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Speaker 1: not someone that I would take at her word. I

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Speaker 1: guess I'll put it that way, Like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how reliable of a narrator she is. However, when she

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Speaker 1: says like, oh, overnight, I realized that feminists were the

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Speaker 1: real enemy, and the people that I should be allying

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Speaker 1: myself were people like mylo Ayanapolis, I don't think that

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Speaker 1: she's outright lying, but I I think that what she's

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Speaker 1: saying is probably a lot closer to what you've just said, Sam,

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Speaker 1: that like what she realized was like, when I was

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Speaker 1: just a feminist online, I didn't get a lot of attention.

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Speaker 1: But when I started publicly beefing with these other feminists,

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Speaker 1: I was getting a lot of attention. These these right

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Speaker 1: wing extremist types like Miloganopolis, who had huge platforms, started

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Speaker 1: paying me more attention and giving me more support, giving

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Speaker 1: me more engagement. And like, I think, I think there's

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Speaker 1: something to this idea that Like, I wouldn't necessarily say

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Speaker 1: that she.

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Speaker 3: Changed her ideological ideas.

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Speaker 1: I think that what she realized was like, oh, if

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Speaker 1: I align myself with people on the right, that comes

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Speaker 1: with attention. Again, this is just my opinion. I don't

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Speaker 1: know her, but that's my sense. I like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that she's outright misrepresenting this shift, but I think

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Speaker 1: it's not necessarily about an ideology so much as it

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Speaker 1: is like, oh, like public spats and rage bait and

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Speaker 1: like spectacle gets me engagement and attention, and that can

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Speaker 1: translate to dollars outright, I can play this game. That's

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Speaker 1: that's my sense of what's going on here.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds like she was finding a brand,

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Speaker 2: and we like, she is a brand, whether or not

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Speaker 2: we want to admit that's the case, but she is

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Speaker 2: a brand, and she's starting to hone in on this brand,

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Speaker 2: and she's going to go for what gives her the

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Speaker 2: most uh success.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this was successful.

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Speaker 1: Like once she starts doing this, you know, and she

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Speaker 1: starts promoting right wing viewpoints on YouTube. She had a

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel called red Pill Black, which, like I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: is actually like a pretty good name. I credit where

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Speaker 1: credit is due. It's like, I get I like that branding.

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Speaker 1: She catches the attention of Charlie Kirk, who founded Turning

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Speaker 1: Points USA, just like big right wing media entity.

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Speaker 3: And he hires her.

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Speaker 1: So at this point, Candice goes from like a little

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Speaker 1: no name blogger blogging about lefty politics that nobody's ever

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Speaker 1: heard of, to like making huge viral videos that are

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Speaker 1: getting so much attention, where she's doing things like dismissing

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Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen White Supremacists Unite the Right rally in

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Speaker 1: Charlottesville that left Heather Higher dead. Alex Jones invites her

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Speaker 1: to co host some of his Info Wars shows, and

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Speaker 1: again like, keep in mind these I know they seem

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Speaker 1: like fringe media entities, and in some ways they are,

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Speaker 1: but they get so many viewers, like Alex Jones at

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Speaker 1: his height was getting tons and tons and tons of eyeballs.

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Speaker 1: She starts doing stints on Fox News, so like that's

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Speaker 1: a little more mainstream than Info Wars, right, And in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one she joined The Daily Wire with a

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Speaker 1: ton of fanfare, like this was a huge deal.

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Speaker 3: She ends up moving to Nashville, and when she.

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Speaker 1: Does that, the state even introduces House Joint Resolution three fifty,

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Speaker 1: a resolution in the Tennessee government to congratulate Candae Owens,

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Speaker 1: a relocate hating to Tennessee for work at the Daily Wire.

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Speaker 1: That reads quote whereas miss Owens has earned the admiration

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Speaker 1: and respect of millions of Americans through her activism and

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Speaker 1: support of President Trump as a black woman, and her

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Speaker 1: perceptive criticism of creeping socialism and leftist political tyranny.

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Speaker 3: Imagine moving to Nashville, and.

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Speaker 1: It's such a big deal that, like the government of

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Speaker 1: Nashville makes it an official like proclamation in Tennessee government.

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Speaker 2: And if she steps outside of downtown Nashville, she's gonna

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Speaker 2: get threatened for sure. Oh I feel threatened outside. I

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Speaker 2: feel threatened in a lot of places. But like, yeah, so,

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Speaker 2: and as a person who was the only Asian person

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Speaker 2: in the crowd, the tokenism is so loud.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that proclamation, like, oh, like we're proclaiming

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Speaker 1: that she's great because she's a black woman who likes Trump.

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Speaker 3: I mean, add to things like this is one of

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Speaker 3: the reasons.

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Speaker 1: Why I think a lot about Candace Owens is like

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Speaker 1: a kind of seductive quality that can come with being

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Speaker 1: a person of color who is being uplifted as like

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Speaker 1: some special thing, right, some special one. And it's it's

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Speaker 1: such a trap because I don't want to be anybody's token, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be anybody's like, oh, like, this

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Speaker 1: is a black woman who's doing x y Z, but

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Speaker 1: I understand the seductive lure of that, and so like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess I almost sort of see

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Speaker 1: Candace Owens as like a fun house mirror version of myself,

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Speaker 1: Like if I, like, if I were someone who was

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Speaker 1: really moved or swayed by being uplifted because of these

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Speaker 1: things that make me tokenizable. I can sort of see

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Speaker 1: liking this, and so I sort of see a lot

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Speaker 1: of like of my shadow self and Candice Owens.

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Speaker 3: I guess I should say, does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: No? Yes, No, I think I understand that because like

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Speaker 2: my younger self, my younger self seeking desperately to be white,

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Speaker 2: seeming to be accepted by white people. So when I

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Speaker 2: in high school not understanding the depth and depravity of

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Speaker 2: white supremacy and how dark it is, like sitting there arguing, no,

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Speaker 2: not arguing, but agreeing with my and racist brother about

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Speaker 2: this fact. Yes, affirmative action is so awful. I want

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Speaker 2: to earn it. I don't want to be, you know,

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Speaker 2: given special treatment because of my race. And that's not

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Speaker 2: the case at all, that's not the conversation at all,

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Speaker 2: But because of what I've been fed, and the minute

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Speaker 2: I said that he's like, see, she knows she's Asian,

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Speaker 2: Like he literally said that out loud, and being so

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Speaker 2: proud of me for understanding white supremacy, like in like

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Speaker 2: in that way, but wanting to like liking that moment.

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Speaker 2: Now look back with Shane, But at that moment, I

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Speaker 2: was like, yes, I'm one of you, Yes, exactly as you.

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Speaker 1: It's so seductive and if you like, I was the

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Speaker 1: exact same when I was younger, Like, and it's like

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Speaker 1: nobody likes feeling excluded or like the other, or like

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Speaker 1: they don't belong.

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Speaker 3: And so in those glimmers where you where you do

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Speaker 3: feel like.

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Speaker 1: Someone is saying like, see, it feels good, And I

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Speaker 1: think it's it's like doing the work of training yourself

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Speaker 1: to really see those moments for what they are and

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Speaker 1: not like being pulled into the good feelings of like

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Speaker 1: well this I'm getting feedback from my brother that's making

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Speaker 1: me feel accepted and that he sees me and whatever whatever.

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Speaker 1: But like, you know, you really have to do the

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Speaker 1: work to be like, well, is this actually what I

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Speaker 1: want to be seen for?

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Speaker 2: Like you know, right, I don't want to agree with you,

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Speaker 2: now I understand what I'm agree with and this is

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Speaker 2: completely wrong. I'm against humanity. What if Candice Owens is

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Speaker 2: pulling the best grift of all time and just taking

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Speaker 2: all the Conservative money, Like if that was the end

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Speaker 2: story to this, I'm like, if anybody deserves the Republican

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Speaker 2: Conservative money as a black woman, So I can't really

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Speaker 2: I hear that right, like this is smart. I mean

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Speaker 2: it's not smart. It's like it feels like a betrayal.

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Speaker 2: But for her on her individual level coming in and

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Speaker 2: being token to being all these multi million dollar shows.

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Speaker 2: Because you know, we know that Alex Jones made a

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Speaker 2: lot of money from his hatred. We know that, we've

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Speaker 2: seen it, he talks about it, we know Charlie Kirk

404
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Speaker 2: as well. Her coming in and taking their money is

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Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, I don't hate it for you,

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Speaker 2: like I hate what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I used to think, and again, this is

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Speaker 1: my opinion. I don't know her like that or anything,

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Speaker 1: but like I used to think, like, certainly she's playing

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Speaker 1: these people.

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Speaker 3: She doesn't believe this. Now I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Now I think she's like a true believer. But like

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Speaker 1: maybe I go back and forth and again it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things that one of those reasons why I

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Speaker 1: find her so deeply fascinating, right because like, like as

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Speaker 1: a black woman, I am tempted to like project like, well,

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Speaker 1: certainly this is some sort of a I mean, it

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Speaker 1: is a.

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Speaker 3: Grift, don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 1: And it's like for sure a grift like she grifted,

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Speaker 1: can't confirm, but like I it really made it really

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Speaker 1: prompts me to look back at myself to be like, well,

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Speaker 1: why am I like why like am I low key

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Speaker 1: rooting for her?

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Speaker 3: Like what is this?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Like you're the like you're not my favorite, but you're

429
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Speaker 2: not the worst worst exactly to get out where you

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Speaker 2: are in this in the spectrum. But you know, on

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Speaker 2: top of all of that, as we were talking about

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Speaker 2: in Nashville, being like if you go outside of the city,

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Speaker 2: escape and no people don't know you, you're not going to

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Speaker 2: get this love that you think you're getting from this

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Speaker 2: very uh again white supremacist patriarch that you are representing

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Speaker 2: and are trying to play for like all these things,

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Speaker 2: eventually they're gonna turn on you.

438
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: Well that actually happened in her story. So you know,

439
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: when she's working at Daily Wire, you're thinking, like, you know,

440
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: she's got this huge gig probably making a ton of money,

441
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: should be smooth sailing, but there is a huge, messy

442
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: public fallout just a few years later. So she's working

443
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: at Daily Wire. Last year there was this public friction

444
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: between Candace and Ben Shapiro, one of the founders of

445
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: Daily Wire, the network that Candace had used to be on.

446
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: Now it's not one hundred percent clear exactly what caused

447
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: attention between the two, but at least publicly there it

448
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: seemed to be some kind of a reaction to the

449
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: situation in Gaza. Ben Shapiro is Jewish, and Owens has

450
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: said a lot of anti Semitic stuff, Like even before

451
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: October seventh, she was going hard, doing things like defending

452
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Kanye West, but things really seemed to kick into high

453
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: gear with her anti semitism on October seventh. Now it

454
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: is important to make a distinction here that she's not

455
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: like criticizing the actions of the Israeli state.

456
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 3: She is getting into stuff like blood libel.

457
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: Conspira theories, which is this anti Semitic conspiracy theory that

458
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: Jewish people drink blood for power, and like other deep

459
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: deep conspiracy theories. Right, like she said that Judaism was

460
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: a quote pedophile centric religion that believes in demons and

461
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: child sacrifice, and that people are waking up to the

462
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: fact that pedophiles are in power. So she is saying

463
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: some like truly out of pocket, wild stuff, and then

464
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: things start taking kind of a bent toward her employer.

465
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: She wrote on Twitter quote, no one can serve two masters.

466
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: You cannot serve both God.

467
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: And money, to which Ben Shapiro Comma her boss, replies, Candace,

468
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: if you feel that taking money from the Daily Wire

469
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: somehow comes between you and God, by all means quit Now.

470
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 3: I gotta say, like, I don't find myself.

471
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: Agreeing with Candace Owens or Ben Shapiro much, but I

472
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: kind of thought Ben Shapiro kind of has a point here,

473
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: Like this is her boss and she's publicly getting into

474
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: sebbats with him on Twitter.

475
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 3: Not a good book.

476
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 4: Could have maybe done that a little bit more privately, Yeah, like.

477
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 3: Sit an email.

478
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: But like that's the thing about Canvas is like Canus

479
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't be Candace if she didn't if she did if

480
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: she did this privately, Cannus wouldn't be Candace if she

481
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: avoided this. Like her career got a jumpstart from spectacle

482
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: on Twitter, So like she that is something that is

483
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: like her bread and butter is like spectacle on social media.

484
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: So it gets absolutely messy as hell, and it's all public.

485
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: Owens claimed that Ben Shapiro had quote been acting unprofessional

486
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: and emotionally unhinged for weeks now and said that Shapiro

487
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: crossed a certain line. When you come for scripture and

488
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: read yourself into it, I will not tolerate it.

489
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: She goes on Tucker.

490
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 1: Carlson Show, saying that Ben Shapiro was attacking her using

491
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: ad hominem attacks. She then tweets that she wants her

492
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: and Ben Shapiro to sit down and have a discussion

493
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: moderated by this podcaster, Patrick Bett Davide. Ben Shapiro was

494
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: having none of this, and again I can't say that

495
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: I blame him. Like challenging your boss to a debate,

496
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: a public debate on Twitter, it's just like not a

497
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: good look. So when she was like debate me, bro,

498
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro tweeted, Candice, I can see why you'd want

499
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: to hide behind a moderator, particularly one who said we

500
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: should rename our company. Quote the Daily Jewish Wire just yesterday,

501
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: no one on one Monday at five pm. We can

502
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: sit down and have a healthy debate like adults and

503
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: will live stream it on x and YouTube.

504
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 3: Take it or leave it.

505
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: So they're really going back and forth, and I gotta

506
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: give a little side note here for what it's worth.

507
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: This is just like my personal opinion as somebody who

508
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: has been around the block and worked in the media

509
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: for a really long time. The reason I am not

510
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: saying that the actual root of their disagreement was Israel

511
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 1: or Judaism like one hundred percent, is because I just

512
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: smell some kind of a contractual dispute here. Something about

513
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: the way that they are going back and forth reads

514
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: to me like Owens maybe had like an inflexible, ironclad

515
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: contract that maybe she felt like she could make more

516
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: money on her own and that she had to get

517
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: out of this contract or vice versa.

518
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 3: Maybe Daily Wire wanted her out.

519
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: Something about the intensity of the public escalation with her

520
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: boss just suggests to me that something else might have

521
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: been going on. Again, this is just my sense. I

522
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: don't have any inside information. It just seems like a

523
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: lot to be doing. It just seems like a lot

524
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: to be doing. But again, this is Cannice Owens we're

525
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: talking about the very definition of doing the most on

526
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: social media.

527
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: But that's just my sense.

528
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: I feel like it's one again once like the fact

529
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: that they work so hard on like the conservative right

530
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: wing side that knowing that one person being Jewish and

531
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: the other person being a black woman. I'm like, they're

532
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: not on your side, Like no, they just are just

533
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: like wanting you to find it out. This is what

534
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: they want so that they can obtain more power. But

535
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: you two, I mean, it's just it's just is it ironic,

536
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: I don't know or is it just Sam?

537
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: I was like watching this like you know, like like

538
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: I was like let him fight, like I was my love,

539
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: and every minute was like faving every tweet reading like

540
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: you know how it used to be on Twitter you

541
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: could like go to like show show more to see,

542
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: like like to start from the beginning.

543
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: I was eating it up.

544
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: And again like obviously Kennis has hit on something because

545
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: like these this public spectacle, these public spats, even with

546
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: her employer.

547
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: They do generate engagement.

548
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: Like she's she's she's not new to this, She's true

549
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: to this, Like she's been using this kind of thing

550
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: to get negative attention to boost herself for a very

551
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: long time, and she's very good at it.

552
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: So the seems to be like.

553
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: The red line here was when Rabbi Schmooley Botice criticized

554
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: Owen's for her defenses of kind a west. Owens then

555
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: like to tweet, asking the rabbi if he was quote

556
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: drunk on Jewish blood again. A few days later, Daily

557
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: Wire and Candace Owens officially ended her their relationship, with

558
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: Owen's tweeting, the rumors are true. I am finally free.

559
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: Just there's so many things that I like, there's so

560
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: many things to this level of conversation that yes, it is.

561
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: It's just like the song of Francesco Ramsey did with

562
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: like that lepers or do you know like they didn't

563
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: think that, you know? And I'm like yeah. But at

564
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: the same time, with the way she ended, it does

565
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 2: sound like it was a whole play to get out.

566
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: I just I mean, like I don't know, but like.

567
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: She had to, Like there is no way that Candace

568
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: did not think that, like she was putting her job

569
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: at risk, right, So I just do not buy that.

570
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: She was like I'm gonna be I just these are

571
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: my convictions and I can just say what I want

572
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: and it's free speech and it'll be fine. There is

573
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: no way, like I just if anybody listening has the

574
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: real tea. I just can sense there's something else here

575
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: and it just it just it gives contract dispute to me,

576
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: That's all I'll say. So this is where the story

577
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: gets interesting to me, because she kind of fell off

578
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: of my radar after this.

579
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, I guess she's out at Bailey Wire.

580
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: Hadn't really heard much from her. I guess she's like

581
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: doing her thing. And it wasn't until I was trying

582
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: to make sense of the dispute between these two Hollywood

583
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: A listers, Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, that she popped

584
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: up on my radar again. So I gotta give a

585
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: big PSA. This is not meant to be a definitive

586
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: breakdown of what is happening with Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively,

587
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: which probably could be like its own episode. It is

588
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: not a situation that I have followed super closely, so

589
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: I am like not the right person to dig in

590
00:31:58,520 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: on all of that.

591
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 3: I don't have any kind of like take or anything like.

592
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: Like like it's just it's not it's not a situation

593
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: that I am super read in on because it's a

594
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: little bit like complicated and I can't quite follow it.

595
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: But that dynamic where I'm like, oh, I don't really

596
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: know what's going on, but I'm sort of like casually

597
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: trying to find out. That is actually how Candice Owens

598
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: got back on my radar. So do you do you

599
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: all know what's happening between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni's

600
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: is something that's like bet On Yell's radar.

601
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: It's been against my will.

602
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: YEA.

603
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 5: Literally today I was like, thank god, I haven't heard

604
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 5: anything about Blake Lively and Justin Baldonia.

605
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: And then you see the outline, So.

606
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: Here we go. Everything I've learned about it has been

607
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: against my will.

608
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, why, it's like what, like it's just like

609
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: not something I don't know, It's just like not.

610
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: I mean in the end, like because you were trying

611
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: to compare it to the Johnny dipp amber Herd case,

612
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 2: which I'm like, yo, back off. There's so many things

613
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: that the implication of that alone makes me think I

614
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: don't want to take this seriously because it's not to

615
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: that level. We have this conversation because like we spoke

616
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: very quickly before it blew up to this, like the

617
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: very beginning of the conflict, mainly talking about how domestic

618
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: violence victims and survivors really were offended by the way

619
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: that the movie, which is the center of this controversy

620
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: was portrayed, and then the how the ad marketing went

621
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: for and like made it all girly, these good times,

622
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: all these things that they were, like this is really

623
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: kind of offensive, Like this language of this entire language

624
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: of sometimes it's very serious that people have taken very

625
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: personally and have like a lot of familiarity with and

626
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: trauma with. And then it felt like flat, especially like

627
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: with how it is now, especially because it's no longer

628
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: about the movie, no, but like's it was. We took

629
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: a small take on that and why romanticizing domestic violence

630
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: is such a such a problem in Hollywood and just

631
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: in our environment in general. But like this was way

632
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: before everything happened, and the back and forth and back

633
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: and forth. I will say, there's a lot of disdain

634
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: for Blake's lively on Ye yes again, I did not

635
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: choose this.

636
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's so funny that you say this. I

637
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: have experienced the exact same thing.

638
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: So so if.

639
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: Folks don't know what we're talking about, if you aren't

640
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: like Annie blissfully unaware of like what is going on,

641
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: It's it's a situation. It's like a little bit complicated,

642
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: and it's ongoing, but it's actually like a pretty interesting story,

643
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: and it does include a lot of things that I

644
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: am interested in, like how celebrities use.

645
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: Social media, how easily social media.

646
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: Platforms can be like weaponized for or against a specific person.

647
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: Email correspondence where people make themselves look terrible in writing

648
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: because they currently do not expect these emails to be

649
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: like in a deposition or in the New York Times.

650
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 3: That is my personal favorite.

651
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: Thing nothing when whenever it's like, oh we have the emails,

652
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna read every single one of them, Like,

653
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: please continue to put your wrongdoings in emails and in

654
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: writing so that I can read them later in a deposition.

655
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: So I do think that folks should like if that

656
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: seems like the kind of a situation that you are

657
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: interested in, Like it is, it is a meaty situation,

658
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: so like definitely listen to podcasts about it or whatever.

659
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: But for our purposes, a quick and dirty. Summary of

660
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: what's going on is that Blake Lively and Justin Buldoni

661
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: were in a movie adaptation of the popular Colleen Hoover

662
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: novel called It Starts with Us. In December, Lively filed

663
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: a legal complaint against Bouldannie, accusing him of sexual harassment

664
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: and starting a sneer campaign against her. Now he strongly

665
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: denies that and has sued. In response, both camps are

666
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: releasing information like text messages and emails and like videos

667
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: and voicemails to make each other look bad. So the

668
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: case has turned, I mean kind of similar to the

669
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp Amber Herd thing. It's one of those situations

670
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: that has turned into like an ink block test that

671
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: changes depending on what version of the story that you buy.

672
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: Inion one, Blake Lively was being sexually harassed on set

673
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,959
Speaker 1: by this like fake feminist male ally.

674
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 3: Who was actually an abuser.

675
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: In version two, Blake Lively is like this egomaniac who

676
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: is using her star power and like a list celebrity

677
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: network like her husband Ryan Reynolds from those Deadpool movies,

678
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: to control the narrative around her being a nightmare on

679
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: set and steamrolling everybody.

680
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 3: Else on this project.

681
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: So Sam like you kind of similar to the Johnny

682
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: Depp and Amber Heard thing.

683
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 3: In some ways, I think, depending on.

684
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: What silos of the Internet you are in, you might

685
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: be be algorithmically being given the idea that the public

686
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: sentiment leans one way or another, like on TikTok.

687
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 3: For whatever reason, my.

688
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: TikTok algorithm thinks I hate Blake Lively and that I

689
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: want to see like lots of videos like pouring over

690
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: every nuance in the ways in which she is.

691
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 3: A fraud, which is not true.

692
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: She's not someone who like I spend really any time

693
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: at all thinking about. But it's interest that like the

694
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: algorithm thinks, like, oh, this is somebody who hates Blake Lively.

695
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 2: Right, I agree. For some reason, I am getting all

696
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: of the tea on all the awful things that Blake

697
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: Lively is and all the people who hate her and

698
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 2: why they hate her, and I'm like, I have never once.

699
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've ever seen a Blake Lively movie.

700
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: I don't think I have.

701
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: If I one of the Traveling Pants, no, okay, that's

702
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: usually the one people know like that or I will

703
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: say say whatever you want to about like Lively the

704
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 1: movie A simple favor slaps.

705
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: She's great in that.

706
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: Did you get the tea on how much they hate

707
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 2: each other?

708
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 3: On that? Why?

709
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: That's what on my fee do.

710
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: I did say? I did see an interview where who

711
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: is the hair coastar in that inn? A Kendrick right

712
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: and A Kendrick were they asking her about Blake Lively.

713
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 3: She does have a very weird response.

714
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: They hate each other, and that's that's what I've understood.

715
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 2: That's what they're telling me because they don't ever show

716
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: up together on the red carpet. So when I say,

717
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: my feed really feeds to the fact that I must

718
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: hate Blake Lively when I don't know this person, And

719
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, I like, not that I know any celebrity

720
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: like that, but I'm like, but I never at one

721
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 2: point have I looked her up or like, she's not

722
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: on my feet. I don't look around on my like searchus.

723
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: I guess the one time it was for the It

724
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: ends with us. Damn it. Every time I research something

725
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: for the show, it messes me up. But anyway, yeah,

726
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: but yeah, no, that is I'm I'm like, I guess

727
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: we really don't trust Blake Lively. We being a TikTok yeah,

728
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: my TikTok the.

729
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: Same as you.

730
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: Like, I was trying to get to the bottom of

731
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: like what was going on with this this Justin and

732
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: Blake thing. And one of my cousins, who I would

733
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: like lovingly describe as a normy and that she's not

734
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: like super online, She's not you know, deep in the

735
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: depths of like extremism or anything like that, Like the

736
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: way that I am my cousin is like, Oh, there's

737
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: this black girl journalist who has really been following the

738
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: story and breaking it down.

739
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: We will tag you so you can figure out what's

740
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 3: going on. And that journalist was Candace Owens.

741
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: And I was like, what, like what, Like I could

742
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: not believe that my cousins who were like not at

743
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: all in like, they are not people who are like

744
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: pouring over the minutia of what's happening on the Internet

745
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: and extremism the way that I am, like, they're pretty

746
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: offline whatever.

747
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: Like I was like, how did.

748
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: You even get Candace Owens on your radar to be

749
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: like listening to her podcast or watching her YouTube?

750
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 3: And the reason is because she has introduced herself to a.

751
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: Brand new subset of listeners and audience by covering this

752
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: Blake Lively thing, so her coverage very clearly takes an

753
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: anti Blake stance, as The Cut put it in a

754
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: piece called Candace Owens has gone mainstream quote. The right

755
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: wing commentator's coverage of the Blake Lively Justin Boldoney case

756
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: has reached millions of viewers. Owen's podcast was hours and

757
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: hours of analysis of the case, deep dives into court,

758
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: finally tabloid news stories, even Ryan Reynolds's recent appearance on

759
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Lives fiftieth anniversary special. She's really been able

760
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: to go in and pinpoint discrepancies in some of the

761
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: things Blake Lively I said, rather than having.

762
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: Us go through it on our own.

763
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: When listener says, though she recognizes that Owens seems to

764
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: have a pro Bowl Donni bias, she doesn't care. Candace

765
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: is urging us to look past the fact that this

766
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,439
Speaker 1: is not a feminist issue at all, that it's about

767
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: getting justice for whoever is being wrong.

768
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: She's uniting the left and the right. So, I mean,

769
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: it's just like it is.

770
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: I mean, on the one hand, it seems surprising that

771
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: this like celebrity story would be the thing that would

772
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: galvanize an audience of mostly women and introduce Candace Owen's

773
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: and who she is and her ideologies and all of

774
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: that to a new audience. But on the other hand,

775
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: like that's pretty much exactly what they do. That what

776
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: they did at the Daily Wire, Like nobody was more

777
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: obsessed with celebrity than people like Ben Shapiro.

778
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 3: They loved like.

779
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: Taking down woke Disney, Woke Star Wars, like you had

780
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: had a big few with Meg thee Stallion Beyonce. Like

781
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: just because it's negative doesn't mean it's not sandom. It's

782
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: just like going in the other direction.

783
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 2: Right, Actually, we knew we need to say he had

784
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: a one sided being with him because they did not.

785
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: Like it just makes me laugh, you know, the other

786
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: part of this was as much as my algorithm wants

787
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: to show me all the anti Lively stuff as well

788
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: as all of the controversy, because yes, I would get

789
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: updates about the SNL thing about how everybody snubbed Brian Reynolds.

790
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: It's like did they okay? But like, interestingly I did

791
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 2: get content not from Candis Owans but other creators reminding

792
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 2: me and everybody listening that Candis Owans is a right

793
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: winged fanatic and that they need to be wary of

794
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: the information she's giving about this specific case.

795
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: Yes, so I think that's like why I wanted to

796
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 1: make this episode, just as a general reminder of who

797
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: Candice Owens is, and like we all love celebrity gossip.

798
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: I know I do, but like, let's just remember who

799
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: she is and the source, and like she might want

800
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: to rebrand herself, but let's just keep it at the front,

801
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: forefront of our minds who she is and what she's about,

802
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: And like, she really has exploded in popularity from this coverage.

803
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's been attracting a lot more viewers beyond

804
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: her normal right wing extremist space. Like you were saying, Sam,

805
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: it's like normans like my cousins, my cousins, who might

806
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: not have any idea who she is. They just think

807
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: she's an entertainment journalist. All of this has meant explosive

808
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 1: growth and engagement for Owen's Here's how The Cut put

809
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: it in that piece. Since Owen started covering the Lively

810
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: Baldoni case, her YouTube channel has exploded in popularity, allowing

811
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: her to attract a much larger fan base than the

812
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 1: audience of hardcore conservatives, she is a mass over the years,

813
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: each episode about Lively and Baldani racks up at least

814
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: one point five million views. In the past month alone,

815
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: Owens has a mass more than four hundred and fifty

816
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 1: thousand new subscribers on YouTube, and her total video views

817
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,959
Speaker 1: have quadrupled since this time last year, according to data

818
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: from the analytics platform social Blade. Over the past three months,

819
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: her audience on YouTube has also started skewing sixty five

820
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: percent female, according to data provided by a spokesperson, a

821
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: market shift from her past fan base. So this has

822
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: all been great news for Owens and where her audience

823
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: used to be like men, you know, like probably like

824
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: your brother right, like like right wing men. By covering

825
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: this story, she's really interacting a lot of women.

826
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 5: Oh my stomach kind of hurts. It is really interesting

827
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 5: that this came in with gamer Gate as well, because,

828
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 5: like we were saying, Gamergate was such a mess, and

829
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 5: there were so many men who would be like, see

830
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 5: this woman agrees with me, and I hate it because

831
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 5: sometimes I'm like why, I just want to have a

832
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 5: conversation about why I don't like this game, and now

833
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 5: you've made it into this woman agrees with me, and

834
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 5: now you're using it to attract more women to be like, see,

835
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 5: if we're on the we are correct and you are wrong.

836
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 4: And so when you see things like this.

837
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 5: Where she started out with mostly men and then she's

838
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 5: attracting like all of these women, I feel like it's

839
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 5: worth asking why do you think this took off for her?

840
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: This story so one, I will say that like Camus

841
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: actually is pretty interesting to listen to, Like I don't

842
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: agree with what she's saying, but she does, Like even

843
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: when she was a progressive blogger, she does have like

844
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: a point of view and a clear voice, and I

845
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: think that really comes through in her coverage.

846
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 3: Of Blake Lively.

847
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: You know, she has this way of speaking that signals

848
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: to you like, oh, this person is really breaking it down.

849
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: It's the same reason why things on TikTok, things like

850
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: story time or like I'm spilling the tea really holds

851
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: people's attention.

852
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 3: I think that Candice really does know how to do that. One.

853
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: I think the second kind of gets at what you

854
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: were saying Annie, that we just love misogyny, and I

855
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: think if that massogyny can be laced with a threat

856
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: of conspiracy, it's even better, Right, like social media platforms

857
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: are always going to amplify things like misogyny or massogynore

858
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: racism or transphobia. I think all of that is just

859
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: baked into what it means to show up on social media.

860
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: And I think Owen's really, in.

861
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: A savvy way, takes that a step further by breaking

862
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: all of this down, like she's explaining a conspiracy, right,

863
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: So it's not so she's not just saying like, here's

864
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: my take on Blake Lively, or here's what's going on

865
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: with the Blake Lively case, or you know, here's why

866
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: even like here's why I don't like Blake Lively. She

867
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: has this tinge of like she uncovering this dark truth

868
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: about this successful woman to take her down.

869
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 3: Like, of course that's going to take off. People love that.

870
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: So the fact that she's not just giving information about

871
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: Blake Lively, she's doing it in this way that's like,

872
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: let's go back through fifteen years of footage of her

873
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: speaking and dive through the minutia of everything that she's

874
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: said on camera to highlight the discrepancies, to show what

875
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: a dark, twisted person she is.

876
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 3: Like, of course people are gonna love that.

877
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 1: And I think that One of the reasons why people

878
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: like conspiracy theories is that it really does allow for

879
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: like fantasy and world building to become part of this coverage,

880
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: right Like Canvas's coverage of Blake Lively is wild because

881
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: she is a truly wild person. And so if you're

882
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: someone who was just like wants to get the brain

883
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: rush of like going down a deep rabbit hole, whether

884
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: or not it's true or whether or not it's like

885
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: made up, that's.

886
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 3: Gonna be enticing for you.

887
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: You know, as Owens herself puts it, she does not

888
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: follow a quote traditional style of reporting.

889
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 3: That's putting it pretty light lightly.

890
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 1: She will amplify rumors, right like she once even read

891
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: a letter that she said was from Ryan Reynolds' acting

892
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: coach from when he was twelve years old, and that

893
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: acting coach allegedly said Ryan Reynolds was obnoxious as a

894
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: twelve year old. Like there are side characters and stuff

895
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: like she really fleshes out this world of what she's saying.

896
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 3: Is it real, is it accurate? Who cares?

897
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: Of course people are coming to hear that tea on

898
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: a story they're invested in, right.

899
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 2: I feel like though, like this is definitely in her

900
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: alley in her Willhouse, in that this fees into the

901
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: Hollywood demon's kind of trope as well as like her

902
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: response to the Me Too movement, I know, like she

903
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: was definitely anti feminist in that movement as well, Like

904
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: this kind of all fees into that perfectly for her.

905
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: Yes, So I think that's another reason why this has

906
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: taken off, because I think that, like, there is something

907
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: inherently inviting about the power of like taking a contrarian

908
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: stance on something like after Me Too, lots of women

909
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: got engagement by taking a contrarian stance. Ironically, Blake Lively

910
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: praised both Woody Island and Harvey Weinstein. That last one

911
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: is going to be interesting to note for later. So

912
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: I think there is this attitude where like going against convention.

913
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: You know, if if there's a convention that says we

914
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: automatically got to support the woman in any situation, it

915
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: probably makes people who are turning to Owen's as coverage

916
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: and her breakdowns feel like the free thinkers who are

917
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: going against the grain and like willing to take an

918
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: unpopular opinion which feels good, Like it feels good to

919
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: think of yourself in that way, which then obviously connects

920
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: to some of her more like odious stances about trans

921
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: people and women and Jewish people, like if you can

922
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: get people introduced to the idea that it's like good

923
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: to take an unpopular opinion when you're talking about a

924
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: celebrity that people don't like, imagine how then you can

925
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: walk them down to be like it isn't And also

926
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: don't you not like trans people? And also don't you

927
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: think women should not have jobs? And also don't you

928
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: not like Jewish people? Like it's like kind of all

929
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: coming from the same place.

930
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, so she's very engaging and she it's sort

931
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 5: of like, you know, here's some celebrity gossip. Let me

932
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 5: give you this conspiracy theory, and also kind of this

933
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 5: hate on the side. Right, But it's been very successful.

934
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 5: But has has the new audience changed her stances at all?

935
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 3: That's a great question.

936
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: According to Owen's she has not really changed her views

937
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: despite her rebrand. She says, in terms of my perspective,

938
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: I haven't changed anything. I've been anti me too since

939
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: long before it was cool. When it comes to the

940
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: which like, oh, what as like feminist media makers? Do

941
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: you think like I just I'm so curious about that

942
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: take of like, first of all, just the assumption that

943
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: like it's cool to be anti me too right now.

944
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know.

945
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 3: I just have a lot of questions.

946
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: This is definitely the whole like red pill level of

947
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 2: women trying to be the I hate this storter, but

948
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: like the pick me like you were, like I it's

949
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: now cool because the boys like me like it. It

950
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 2: doesn't want it sounds like most women who have been

951
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: through these processes or her survivors would never say like

952
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 2: the level people. I'm not even just like survivors people

953
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: with conscious like like that in general, that's not a

954
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: that's not a statement you want. That's not a winning statement.

955
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: It's not that's a good way to put it. It's

956
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: not a winning statement. And when it comes to the

957
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: success of the content that she's made around Blake Lively,

958
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: Canda says that she thinks her new fans, especially the

959
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: ones coming from the left, have quote just kind of

960
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: gotten wise to the fact that maybe women lie just

961
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: like men, and you can do you want to know

962
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: what her next big shoe is going to be like

963
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: after she moves on from Blake Lively, She's already signaled

964
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 1: to what it is?

965
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: Oh really, because we're still in the middle of this.

966
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: The lawsuit hasn't been settled, but okay, what is.

967
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: But she's already looking, I mean like it's not gonna

968
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: last forever. She's already had a sense of like where

969
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: she's going next, her next bigo. She was going to

970
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: be championing Harvey Weinstein, the disgraced filmmaker that really did

971
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: kickstart the Me Too movement. She's been interviewing him by

972
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: phone since twenty twenty two. Here's how the Hollywood Reporter

973
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: explains it. Candas's takeaway is that while Harvey Weinstein is

974
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: an a moral man, he's also a victim of the

975
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: justice system. Owens, a long time and persistent critic of

976
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: the Me Too movement, of which Harvey, of which the

977
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein saga served as the watershed, noted that quote,

978
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: I've always had faith in our court system, and now

979
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: that's beginning to change. Now I'm wondering if our courtrooms

980
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 1: have been politicized. I love that it's Harvey Weinstein being convicted.

981
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: That She's like, are the it's not on the money.

982
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: I no, I'm sure there's some of them serial killers

983
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: that she should represent as much like this is okay

984
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: to be fair, she has has she has her fingers

985
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: on the pulse in that knowing this is gonna drive

986
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: up attention, like she is gonna get the publicity that

987
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: she wants with that, Like how bigger could you go

988
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 2: outside of being like I'm gonna go dig up Hitler

989
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: and interview him and tell him I miss him like that.

990
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 3: That's yeah, No, I mean she she agrees with you.

991
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: She said that she's putting out a series called Harvey Speaks,

992
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: and when asked about it, she said, quote.

993
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:51,959
Speaker 3: It will explode the world. That's a direct quote.

994
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, she's a businesswoman for sure.

995
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, we all have that to look forward to. I

996
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 3: mean again, like.

997
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: He's sad, like I cannot deny that this is smart,

998
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: Like I don't.

999
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 3: I don't agree with it.

1000
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: I don't think it's good. I don't think it's good

1001
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: for the world. But like, I think she has her

1002
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of what is actually going to

1003
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: be projects to put out that will capture people's attention

1004
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: for better or for worse.

1005
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 3: And I think she's really got something. She's like cracked

1006
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 3: into something.

1007
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, for better or worse. Indeed, she has.

1008
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 5: And you know, every time we talk to you, Bridget,

1009
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 5: we always talk about how the algorithms and so many

1010
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 5: of our social media pushes this content up and how

1011
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 5: we engage in it.

1012
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 4: So she's figured it out. She's figured that out.

1013
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 1: I think you're exactly right, And I think, like that's

1014
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: the So what of this story is that? You know,

1015
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: Candice has so many other things going on, Like she's

1016
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: pivoting into other kinds of pro she's branding out into

1017
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: doing a book club for paying subscribers and a fitness program,

1018
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: and I think that I do I believe her when

1019
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: she says that she's not like rebranding. I think rather

1020
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: she is trying to rebrand her followers. These new followers,

1021
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 1: many of whom are just like women who are interested

1022
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: in this scandal. I believe that the point is for

1023
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 1: them to be walked down a pipeline that includes her

1024
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: other extremist attitudes, really using this Blake Lively celebrity scandal

1025
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 1: as the hook. And I think because celebrity stories, especially

1026
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: ones that involve women, are so often just like considered fluff.

1027
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 3: So a lot of people who care.

1028
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: About like extremist content or ideology might not be paying

1029
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: that much attention to hell, these stories that you might

1030
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: see on US Weekly are tapping into those ideologies and

1031
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: un leading those ideologies on a brand new audience. And

1032
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: so I think that's especially concerning when you're talking about

1033
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: things like celebrity, because you know, when I'm reading celebrity

1034
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: scandals or like reading US Weekly, I might not be

1035
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: primed to have my like BS detector on and up

1036
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: because it just is, like you think of it as

1037
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: a less charge space.

1038
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 3: And so I think that it really can be.

1039
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: More dangerous because it lends itself to people being more

1040
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: susceptible to ideological content they might not be expecting without

1041
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: even realizing it.

1042
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 3: And like, I think it's very easy for Candace Owens to.

1043
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: Go from like saying Blake Lively is lying to like

1044
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: women lie to women can't be trusted to, like women

1045
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: should not have jobs, which I'm not just like pulling

1046
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 1: that out of nowhere. That is a stance that Candace

1047
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: Owens has explicitly advocated for that women should not have employment,

1048
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,919
Speaker 1: they cannot be trusted with work, despite herself obviously being

1049
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: a working woman. So like, basically you just can't trust

1050
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,919
Speaker 1: her she's not someone that you can trust. Don't let

1051
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: her rebrand as a celebrity journalist. Fool you if somebody

1052
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: tags you in a video of hers, to.

1053
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 3: Be like, oh, she's really breaking it down.

1054
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 1: Just remember that she is trying to soften what it

1055
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 1: is that she advocates for and believes in, and like.

1056
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 3: We shouldn't let her do that.

1057
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: We should really remember who who she is and what

1058
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: she's about, because she's made it very clear, right.

1059
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 2: I mean, she's definitely on the same lines of what

1060
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 2: we've seen as a new generation talking about young men

1061
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 2: on podcasts and how they've been able to influence young men,

1062
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 2: like this is coming in as influencing young women. I mean,

1063
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: just today, I'm seeing a lot of content about how

1064
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 2: young the younger generations are talking are being red pilled,

1065
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 2: as they would say, which is fitting here, and things

1066
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 2: like the soft life content being a beginning for a

1067
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 2: lot of young women not realizing that getting that kind

1068
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 2: of brand. We've talked about that with like self care,

1069
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: we've talked about that with yoga and the clean, clean

1070
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 2: lifestyle type of thing. How that easily becomes a pipeline

1071
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 2: for the conservative right wing community. And this is kind

1072
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: of that big stoy, except that we see her branding

1073
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: and we know who she is. But if you don't

1074
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: know from the jump her stance, this is definitely a

1075
00:56:56,200 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: worrisome tactic because we know things like true crime and

1076
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 2: celebrity gossip, like it's geared towards young women, it's geared

1077
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: towards women in general, and they also spend a lot

1078
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 2: of money and they spend a lot of time in it,

1079
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 2: investigating and taking part of it. So it's really worriesomeing

1080
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 2: like it is comical. As we were talking at the beginning,

1081
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: like what is this to very concerning and understanding that

1082
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 2: when we let this stuff go, like you were saying,

1083
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 2: like this is fluff content, but in actuality is feeding

1084
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 2: into a conservative ideal that becomes mainstream and it's usually

1085
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: really dangerous.

1086
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1087
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: So when people are like, oh, I just want to

1088
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: listen to my true crime podcast, I don't want to

1089
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: get political, or I just want to read about celebrities,

1090
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to get political, I hate to break

1091
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: it to you. All of that stuff is political. All

1092
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: that is all political, and like it is, it can

1093
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: be harnessed to shift attitudes of people who are being like, oh,

1094
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: this is not political into more extremest ways of thinking.

1095
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: And so if you are a savvy consumer of media,

1096
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: or a savvy consumer of anything, whether it's true crime

1097
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: content or celebrity content, or yoga or wellness content or

1098
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: any of that, we've really got to be primed and

1099
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: thinking about the ways as content can be so easily

1100
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: weaponized to spread a.

1101
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 3: Certain ideology that we might not want to get mixed

1102
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 3: up in.

1103
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1104
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 5: Oh every time you come here, Bridget, I'm like, we

1105
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 5: have fifteen million other.

1106
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 4: Topics we need to talk about.

1107
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 5: But thank you, thank you as always for coming on

1108
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 5: and taking the time.

1109
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 4: We love to have you. Where can the good listeners

1110
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 4: find you?

1111
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: Well, you can listen to my podcast on iHeartRadio called

1112
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: their Artal Girls.

1113
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 3: On the internet.

1114
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: You can check me out on Instagram at Bridget Marie

1115
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: in DC and uh yeah, we'd love to hang out there.

1116
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 4: Yes, and go do that listeners. If you haven't already

1117
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 4: you can find us. You can email us at Hello

1118
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 4: Stuff iever told you dot com. You can find us

1119
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 4: on Blue Sky at momsuff podcast, or in Instagram and

1120
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 4: TikTok at stuff we Never told you for Also on YouTube,

1121
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 4: we have a tea public store, and we have a

1122
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 4: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

1123
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 4: as always to our super producer Costini or Executiveducer and

1124
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 4: a contributor Joey.

1125
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1126
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 4: Thanks to you for listening. Stuff one never told me

1127
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 4: his production by heart Radio.

1128
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 5: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check

1129
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 5: out the heart Radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen

1130
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 5: to your favorite ship