WEBVTT - New Pay For Play Law Gets It Wrong; NBA Workout Guru Rob McClanaghan Talks Training Steph, KD, LeBron 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.280 Hey, welcome in Doug Gottlieb here and you are listening 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.600 to all baldy all basketball conversation and we've got a 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.320 great pod for you. Let me start with what everybody 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.680 is talking about in collegiate sports, which is pay for play. Oh, 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.239 I'm sorry, it's name, image and likeness. Now that's really 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.080 pay for play. So, um, what happens is I'm sure 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:29.840 you read my tweets or maybe you don't, and you're like, wow, 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.040 this guy he doesn't want college athletes get paid. He 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.320 just he wants to keep all the money him south. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.839 You know, like, look, I'm just a realist about it. 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.519 Um no, I don't think I should be paid to 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:46.040 play above what they get for a scholarship. Scholars is 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.640 pretty awesome getting into college. You couldn't get into never 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.760 really having to ask for money for food, for clothes, 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:57.240 for anything, right, And like what what you're not told 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.040 is like, well, what if you come from a household 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:00.960 where you don't have any money, Like, okay, we can 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.720 apply for a pell grant and get nearly seven thousand 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:05.319 dollars in a PEL grant in addition to the cost 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:09.760 of attendance and all the other stuff. Well, you can't work. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.800 You can work. I worked. I tended bar in the fall. 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.119 I you know, in the summer, if you stay there, 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.399 you get a job. But you also, like the n 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.000 c A has created this thing where you don't have 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:24.399 to work, you really don't have to, and you've got 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.880 everything kind of taken care of for you. And and look, 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.440 there's lots of different layers to get into it. But 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.720 I think one of the important pieces I believe, I 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:36.720 believe that we all need college. We need that time 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.360 away from home where you're where you're you're not living 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.240 at home as a child, but you're also not an 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.360 adult out in the real world, and you need pieces 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.960 of the real world. One of those pieces is the 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.800 relationships that you build knowing that all these people you're 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.080 around are going to be your contemporaries in the workplace 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.000 for the rest of your life. Another piece of the 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.000 real world isn't learning how to manage your time and 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.480 your money. That that's really what you learn most in 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.440 in college, right, is about relationships, building fostering relationships, not 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:10.400 just romantic, just friendships and otherwise, and how to balance 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.000 your time and your money because you don't have you 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.320 don't necessarily have to go to every class, but you've 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:18.880 got to go to enough whom we know what you're doing. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.000 And if you want to get a's, you obviously do. 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.040 But I also think that you need to learn to 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.640 balance your time and that how are you gonna go 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.120 work out? Are you gonna go hang out? Are you 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.359 gonna study? What are you gonna do with with all 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.040 of your time? And then with your money, you get 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.359 a scholarship check, you know, you get five six dollars 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.520 above and beyond that of your rent check. What do 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.800 you do with that money so that you have it 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.240 a little bit to spend at the end of every month. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:53.000 And we've created this system where, um, you know, managing 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.720 money is a lot is not as important because now 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:57.480 you can get a meal anytime you want. They can't 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.360 cut you off from meals with a training table or 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:01.920 all the things that you can have inside of a 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:07.480 training room. And now, um there's additional moneys you can 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:12.520 make with working camps and when coaches have these, um 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.760 these fantasy camps as well, you'll get an additional check. 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.800 And there's ways to manipulate summer school so that you 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.680 get paid based upon how many hours you take. You 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.480 sign it for eighteen hours. Then you then you cut 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.720 it down to like nothing in terms of six or 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.280 nine hours, and you still keep that check. There's lots 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.200 of different ways in which you can have a little 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.880 bit of a buffer between the real world and the 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.720 fake world, but you still need to learn to manage money. 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.080 And this idea that we're just gonna we're gonna have 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.440 these small sponsorship deals. You go down to Christ's University 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:50.320 Spirit make an appearance, you get five hundred bucks. Um. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.000 Forget about, Well, you can't forget about. But this is 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.400 gonna hurt I think athletic departments who need that revenue 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.400 in order to pay for all the things that they 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.800 pay for. But it's it's also just gonna hurt the 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.160 general idea of what college athletics is about. Like, look, 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.600 you're coming here to get everything taken care of. And 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:11.640 if you're good enough athlete, if you're good enough of 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.680 your sport, when you're done playing, you can do as 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.520 a sign, autographs, you can make appearances, you can get 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.520 all that money. You don't actually need it now, And 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.360 because you don't truly have a value, you're actually just 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.200 getting paid to play, not getting paid for your name 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.840 and likeness. It's not to say your likelist doesn't have 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.400 any value, but really, all it's done is we pull 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.400 them all together, and athletic departments were able to sell 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.720 them on everything they do. And that's a lot more 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:41.760 valuable than anyone person individually. But more than anything, it 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:43.960 just gets away from the core ethics of what college 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:48.640 athletics is about. To the athlete, your sport, your excellence 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.800 in your sport got you into a college you couldn't 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.120 get into, got you total support scholastically and athletically you 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.440 get your degree, creates these relationships. You are a bount 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.240 bouncing time, about bouncing money, about how to place the team, 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.960 about how to play hard, and when you're done, now, 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.240 how good you are determines what your first second, sometimes 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.440 the third job is. So so let's go a little 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:15.280 bit further into it. All right, I've been I've had 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.760 when I've said taxes, I've had people like Nick Wright 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:20.680 lose their mind and say, you know, that's not a 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.800 reason to like it actually is a legit reason. Many 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.799 of you are in college athletics or you've been around 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:32.000 college athletics, so you know that you're not paying taxes 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.440 on like ticket revenue. You're not paying normal taxes, so 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:40.520 it allows it allows those profits to be greater, the 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.920 net to be as good as the gross or close 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:48.640 to the gross. The problem is that like Gavin Newsom 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.800 does this, or they're making billions of dollars. First of individual, 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.599 schools aren't making billions of dollars. So they're twenty year 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:58.520 plus deals signed by you know, ten to fourteen member 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:03.800 conferences that when you split it up, is the money good, Yeah, 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.599 but the expenses are also way higher than used to be. Like, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.320 we're only taking gross revenue and go like, look now 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.520 they're making thirty million dollars a year. Yeah, but everything 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.960 else costs money. Debt services higher, all the coaches make 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.640 more money, the insurance is more money, that travel is 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.080 more money, the offices are more money, the secretaries more like, 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:27.760 everything costs more money, and so yeah, the revenue, they've 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.760 been able to to generate more and more revenue than 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.839 they ever have before. In collegiate athletics, they're also generating 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.240 more revenue on the academic side, but no one seems 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.600 to be attacking that college makes colleges make money off 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.839 of all their students. The only difference is the reward 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.880 for being on scholarship now is actually greater than it 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.520 used to be. It's a scholarship for a lifetime. The 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.600 facilities are better, schools are hard to get into, and 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.000 yet for athletes you still have the opportunity to get 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.920 in when others would not. You can come back whenever 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.240 you want, get your degree, even getting advanced degree. And 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.120 beyond the field are on the court coaching. You know, 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.520 you get cost of a tennis now where you didn't previously. 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:09.040 The deal is incredible. And this idea that taxes don't matter. Hey, 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:13.000 if you start paying college athletes, they can be deemed employees, 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:14.960 if their employees, then all of a sudden, all of 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.920 their things that they get, not just the money and 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.000 not just the scholarship, all can be taxed. And sometimes 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.160 some are in fact tax in. Schools pay that already, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.000 but now anything they get can be seen as a 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.080 benefit and be taxable. And then if they start taxing 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.160 athletic departments, now all those other sports will of course suffer. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:39.320 So I just I get it. You somehow think that 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.520 kids could go Why can't a kid go out because 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.800 someone we're about. The reward is the scholarship. It's an 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.400 incredible reward. It's hard to get than ever has been previously, 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.920 it's more valuable than it ever was previously, and you 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.320 get more once you get there for the rest of 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.880 your life than you ever have previously. And yet part 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.200 of our generations, part of our our makeup, is we 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.600 want more, which is also why if you have this, 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:03.800 it won't stop cheating. Whatever rules you put in place. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.160 If people want to go around the rules, they will. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.280 If you pay a kid five thousand dollars and somebody 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.640 says I'm gonna pay you ten thousand dollars, they you know. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.960 I don't think the rules as they stand are unreasonable. 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.000 Most people who live it don't think it's unreasonable. And yes, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:20.960 schools are making money, but you have to remember they're 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.800 making money off everybody. Are they making more money than 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:25.720 they used to. Yes, they're also spending more money than 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.080 they used to, not just to get the next college athlete, 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.840 but also to treat them better when they're there. And 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.600 the taxes do, in fact matter. So I get that 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.640 we act like this is a foregone conclusion. I think 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.840 it's really interesting because in a couple of years, the 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.080 NBA is probably gonna take guys straight out of high school. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:44.559 They can already go straight at high school of the 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.880 che league, they don't, even though they can market themselves there. 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:49.760 I'm not sure the n c A doesn't dig in 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.760 and say, look, if you want to go to the 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.559 minor leagues, you can. If you want to go go here, 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.440 this is our rules. I I'd be interested legally what 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.679 they can do, considering they're not a free market, nor 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.560 have they ever portrayed themselves as a free market. Right now, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.160 they're losing public against public opinion, but that doesn't mean 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:12.040 they're losing in the court of law anyway. So look, 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.040 we could go round and round, and I think by 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.439 now you've heard my opinion on it. I think here's 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.360 the thing that bothers me the most is if I 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.800 had to say there were three groups, three groups that 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:28.800 have bitched and complained about name, liminas and likeness, all 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:33.240 three groups pissed me off, and I I guess I 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.120 respect at least two of them, that maybe even three. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:41.559 Davin Newsom, he's an elected official. By the way, Look 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:43.160 he went to Santa Clara. How much you think it 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:44.839 cost to go to Santa claarir imagine if you had 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.120 got that for free and you couldn't afford it. But 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.480 like Gavin Newsom talking about some ship he has no 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:55.480 idea about saying the student athlete gets nothing like it. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:57.719 Just in the state of California. The idea that you 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.520 can go to cal Stanford, you see, like get into 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.360 these schools you couldn't get into walk away with no 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:07.920 student debt. And especially when you know those athletic departments 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:12.240 are not they're not rolling in money like to to 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:16.199 to pooh the education and opportunities when you're supposed to 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.360 be as an elected official, wanting more and more of 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.559 those opportunities, especially in people from lower socio economic backgrounds, 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.240 but more than anything like he and Lebron James, Hey, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.200 you didn't fucking play college basketball. You haven't earned a 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.040 scholarship like Lebron, this doesn't affect you. You were getting 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.520 paid in high school anyway. Right. That's like the Ed 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.440 O'Bannon thing, Like Ed O'Bannon leading this charge. Like, dude, 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.560 Ed O'Bannon, why do you think he signed at un 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.560 LV and then all of a sudden he goes to 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:48.880 u c l A after you know v he gets 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.680 on probation and by the way, Ed, like I don't 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.559 know why it's weird, like ed O Bean has always 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:56.880 been a super class guy and was a great player 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:58.480 in the National Player of the Year and it didn't 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.280 work out from the NBA, And yeah, I guess he 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.880 hasn't used his name in likeness to kill it. But 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:06.840 that's a U c l A and a U problem 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.920 because most everyone else in the real world, if you 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:11.640 go to a college and play basketball and have the 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.600 career that ed'bannon has, you'd be calling their games right now. 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.000 You'd be around their athletic partment right now, you'd be 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.440 earning a salary because of who you were. He didn't, 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.719 and I don't know why that's everybody else's problem. I 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.600 feel like so so so like Lebron, who this doesn't 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.840 pertain to you. You didn't if you played college basketball. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:30.760 I do think you'd have a different perspective on it. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.440 Same thing with Gavin Newsom. The last group is the Dukies. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.160 Billis is big on this. We've had him on the pod. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.520 He's actually a good friend and a mentor. Jay Williams. 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:42.240 I don't know if he's my friend or not my friend. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.800 I can't tell based upon the day, but I I 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.080 generally like the guy and love the fact that he's 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.360 gone through some really dark times in his life and 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.920 is now super successful in this profession. But are we 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:58.280 fucking kidding ourselves? Like the Dukies all have their jobs 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.880 because for the most part, they are really good players, 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.080 sometimes like Jay, great players, but because they went to Duke, 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.720 it's like their skulls, you know, they have the secret combination, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.960 they get the secret handshake, so they they live on 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.199 their reputation that was established when they played. Jay Williams. 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.199 Everything he's done, it's not because he was the second 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.040 pick in the draft and because he played the Chicago Bulls, 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.319 you know, or that tragic accident. Like the reason that 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.360 he has had all of these opportunities was he was 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.760 a great player at arguably the best basketball school in 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.440 the country, coached by the best basketball coach in the 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.480 history of modern day basketball. And that opens doors for 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:43.400 you even ten years after you're done playing. And so 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.760 for the Dukies to complain about the system, which they 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.360 benefit from more so than anybody else, I find to 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:55.280 be at least ironic, at least ironic, but alast this 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.520 seems to be a path that many of you think 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.920 you want to go down. And I'm gonna point this out. 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:02.680 It strikes me as the beginning of the end of 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.720 college athletics and what it was about. And in this 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.200 day and age where it's harder to get into and 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.560 harder to pay for college than it ever has been before, 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.160 you will go back and you will say, Godlib was right. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.400 It was better the way it was. It just was 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.240 it was better the way it was. Yeah, people in 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.080 charge make a little bit more money, then maybe you 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:28.440 think they should. Welcome to life, buddy. All right, let's 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.280 get you to a really, really fun conversation. Robert Clanahan 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.480 is uh is a the workout guy of the stars. 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.240 He has a new book out. It's called net Work. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:44.880 Get it net Work, Um. It's really kind of an 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:46.800 interesting tale of a guy who was a good player 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.319 in high school walk on in college to being the 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.000 guru for so many of the superstars of the NBA. 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.440 Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.000 Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.280 on Fox Worts Radio and the I Heart Radio app. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.439 All right, let's welcome him into the All Ball Podcast. 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:10.280 He's Uh. Rob mcclanahany joins us as uh, I want 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.640 to talk about a bunch of things. Let's let's start 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.720 with your journey, because now people reading about you, hearing 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.440 about you, understanding how you work with so many NBA 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.560 stars on on kind of perfecting their craft. You grew 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.480 up where? H Yeah, I grew up in Rhode Island, Creston, 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.800 Rhode Island, So I'm born and raised there and went 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.440 through Catholical Boys school here and then end up walking 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.920 on to Syracuse. So what they see like you skipped 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:37.760 over a whole bunch of stuff like were you how good? 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.880 How good were you in high school? I was an 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.400 average player. I hadn't really played my junior year, started 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.200 my senior one state savorit ship um probably could have 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.280 played Division two, uh somewhere, but definitely no one, no 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.000 D one offers at all. So then you you why 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.960 did you go to Syracuse? Well, initially the plan was 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.960 seeing the goal there for broadcasting any media kind of stuff. 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.360 That's what I kind of wanted wanted to do, and 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.480 then decided, you know, I'll try to walk on. So 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.800 you get to Syracuse, you walk on. Your freshman years, 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.120 you try and walk on. I try to walk in 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.360 my freshman year and up growing up in Providence when 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.760 the Big East was you know, the real Big East. Um, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.480 that's really I really got in the love of that, 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.080 you know, part of the of the game. And um, yeah, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.520 I try to walk on my freshman year, remember a 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.400 get in touch with Mike Hopkins and uh Louis Are 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.280 and those guys, and they said, you could work out 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:28.920 with the team. Doesn't mean you're gonna, you know, make 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.520 the team unless your dad, you know, doing it's a 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.560 nice check. And that wasn't happening. So coach, let me, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.400 you know, work out with the team. I didn't make 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.320 it my freshman year. They took no walk on. So 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:40.280 I asked what I had to do, and they said, 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:41.640 you know, put out a lot of weight, you know, 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.520 hopefully you grow a little bit. I six ft and 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.160 I put on thirty pounds group two inches, and um 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.400 ended up making the team. All right, see you make 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.600 the team in nine eight right? That was the team 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:54.520 we played against in the n c A tournament. If 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.600 I recall in Indianapolis, Uh, let's see here how many 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.920 I can get it? The Neon game on Thursday, I know, 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:04.720 I know those are the best or the worst. It 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.560 all depends we actually played that game. Yeah, because yeah, 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.720 because your your season's over, or you get to watch 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.280 everybody else win and you already won like that. So 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:20.200 it became so that team was eaton Thomas Uh, Ryan Blackwell, 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:29.120 Jason Hart. Who else is on? Alan Griffin, Damon Brown? Uh. 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.120 The team was talented, but not very good. Like why 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.920 wasn't that team better? Yeah? You know, I don't think 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.480 we had a lot of shooters, you know, Uh, And 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.040 I don't know what it was. Man, we were just 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.240 up and down all year. You know. We we went 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.120 falling over them and Lewis you know, two or three straight. Um, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.960 we just didn't come together what we needed to. And Uh, 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.800 I remember remember being watching tournament with coach and uh 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.120 helping Syracuse and we're like, we get that new game. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.160 It's just the vibe wasn't good. And then if we wanted, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.560 we would have played Ober. I'm right. Yeah, So yeah 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.440 that was that was the only year I was there. 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.680 We actually lost in the first round. Okay, so what 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.800 what was what did you for your profession? What you 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.480 do today? What was it about that experience at Syracuse 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.320 that you learned that you drew upon, Because I will 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.720 say that like, and people think I'm like anti Syracuse 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.880 is dumb whatever, um, But I I do think that 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.480 I think not playing man a man hurts those guys, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.600 uh um, you know, like Jason hart now and didn't 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.440 hurt Jason hard who became a great kind of tough, 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.960 hard nosed defender in the NBA and lasted for over 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.400 a decade whatever. But I do think that that for 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.640 four stars, like like, look, they literally don't learn anything 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.359 about man and man defense during their time there, And 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.480 there's also kind of a mentality that that has to 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:53.800 be changed. Um. Offensively, I feel like hop late in 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.440 his run there, maybe they like the last Final four team, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.320 they ran a little bit more kind of higher level stuff, 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.000 but it's very very basic in terms of what they 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.119 do offensively. I don't know if that hurts guys, but 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.640 and and maybe it's that Syracuse has had guys that 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.400 were underrated going into Syracuse that became overrated because Syracuse 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.679 such a big program and is so successful in the 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.200 Big East. And then they because they were maybe overvalued, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.560 they get to the NBA and they don't outside of Carmela, 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.399 they don't have the same impact. But I'm wondering what 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.679 about your experience at Syracuse. First, why did why did 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.400 it help you get to where you are today? Yeah? 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.280 I think the main reason, uh I fall off with 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.520 the workout stuff initially was because because Mike Hopkins, um 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.440 you know he's he's really really good at play development. 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.959 His mentor was was Gurg you know Greg, and uh 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.200 so it's kind of I didn't know. I just thought 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:48.720 where guys out was, you know, put them through which 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.879 a couple of drills, you know, passing the ball rebounded. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.280 But hop was in there like the same way you 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.879 played tag from care in the workout things like that, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.480 talking trash, sweating and being being a major part of 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.240 the work not just passing the ball. So I thought 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:03.399 that was pretty cool. I was in a lot of 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.200 those workouts in the guard groups. Um So he was 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.280 definitely my mentor early on kind of still is and 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.800 all all that stuff, and uh you know that's when 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.359 I first learned about working guys out really really can't 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.399 be And Jason Hart was it was a workout feed on. 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.760 I mean this guy was NonStop, you know, he approved 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.000 every single year. Um So, watching Jay go through the 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:23.959 work as a hops what was really cool to see. 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.800 It's funny because it's like everybody wants a guy like 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.800 Hop to be I didn't have that, Like Sean Saton 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.160 worked me out, but it wasn't and he was he 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.720 was great, but because he did so much more coaching, 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.520 Like once the season started, I didn't have a guy, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.040 and so I didn't feel like I kept up with 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.439 my workouts and you know, look, my thing became. I 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.439 didn't think I could shoot, so I wouldn't shoot, and 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.640 nobody believed I could shoot because I didn't believe myself. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.760 But I didn't have anybody kind of supporting me. Like 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.320 That's kind of the magic to what hop does, right, 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.000 is that is that not only does he is does 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.000 he work you out, but he gives you this un 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.760 dying belief in yourself that you think you can achieve, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.919 which allows you to achieve. Yeah, his energy is ridiculous, 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.560 you know, and he's always positive. You know, Jace Hart 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.960 and him were extremely close. Um, and he believed Jason 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:19.560 And again he was kind of like that too. You know, 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.239 nobody he couldn't really shoot that much. Uh, no one 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:23.800 believes you could shoot. And at a times Jason and 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:25.679 he could shoot. And Hopp was the one, like you 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.400 just said and made him believe, you know, through the work. 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:29.719 And it's kind of like when I work guys now, 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:31.760 you know, if you work at all summer, you go 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.040 into the season like you're confident you're gonna make shots. 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.000 You know. It's I always say, it's like you know, 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:37.840