Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in Doug Gottlieb here and you are listening
Speaker 1: to all baldy all basketball conversation and we've got a
Speaker 1: great pod for you. Let me start with what everybody
Speaker 1: is talking about in collegiate sports, which is pay for play. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's name, image and likeness. Now that's really
Speaker 1: pay for play. So, um, what happens is I'm sure
Speaker 1: you read my tweets or maybe you don't, and you're like, wow,
Speaker 1: this guy he doesn't want college athletes get paid. He
Speaker 1: just he wants to keep all the money him south.
Speaker 1: You know, like, look, I'm just a realist about it.
Speaker 1: Um no, I don't think I should be paid to
Speaker 1: play above what they get for a scholarship. Scholars is
Speaker 1: pretty awesome getting into college. You couldn't get into never
Speaker 1: really having to ask for money for food, for clothes,
Speaker 1: for anything, right, And like what what you're not told
Speaker 1: is like, well, what if you come from a household
Speaker 1: where you don't have any money, Like, okay, we can
Speaker 1: apply for a pell grant and get nearly seven thousand
Speaker 1: dollars in a PEL grant in addition to the cost
Speaker 1: of attendance and all the other stuff. Well, you can't work.
Speaker 1: You can work. I worked. I tended bar in the fall.
Speaker 1: I you know, in the summer, if you stay there,
Speaker 1: you get a job. But you also, like the n
Speaker 1: c A has created this thing where you don't have
Speaker 1: to work, you really don't have to, and you've got
Speaker 1: everything kind of taken care of for you. And and look,
Speaker 1: there's lots of different layers to get into it. But
Speaker 1: I think one of the important pieces I believe, I
Speaker 1: believe that we all need college. We need that time
Speaker 1: away from home where you're where you're you're not living
Speaker 1: at home as a child, but you're also not an
Speaker 1: adult out in the real world, and you need pieces
Speaker 1: of the real world. One of those pieces is the
Speaker 1: relationships that you build knowing that all these people you're
Speaker 1: around are going to be your contemporaries in the workplace
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. Another piece of the
Speaker 1: real world isn't learning how to manage your time and
Speaker 1: your money. That that's really what you learn most in
Speaker 1: in college, right, is about relationships, building fostering relationships, not
Speaker 1: just romantic, just friendships and otherwise, and how to balance
Speaker 1: your time and your money because you don't have you
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to go to every class, but you've
Speaker 1: got to go to enough whom we know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: And if you want to get a's, you obviously do.
Speaker 1: But I also think that you need to learn to
Speaker 1: balance your time and that how are you gonna go
Speaker 1: work out? Are you gonna go hang out? Are you
Speaker 1: gonna study? What are you gonna do with with all
Speaker 1: of your time? And then with your money, you get
Speaker 1: a scholarship check, you know, you get five six dollars
Speaker 1: above and beyond that of your rent check. What do
Speaker 1: you do with that money so that you have it
Speaker 1: a little bit to spend at the end of every month.
Speaker 1: And we've created this system where, um, you know, managing
Speaker 1: money is a lot is not as important because now
Speaker 1: you can get a meal anytime you want. They can't
Speaker 1: cut you off from meals with a training table or
Speaker 1: all the things that you can have inside of a
Speaker 1: training room. And now, um there's additional moneys you can
Speaker 1: make with working camps and when coaches have these, um
Speaker 1: these fantasy camps as well, you'll get an additional check.
Speaker 1: And there's ways to manipulate summer school so that you
Speaker 1: get paid based upon how many hours you take. You
Speaker 1: sign it for eighteen hours. Then you then you cut
Speaker 1: it down to like nothing in terms of six or
Speaker 1: nine hours, and you still keep that check. There's lots
Speaker 1: of different ways in which you can have a little
Speaker 1: bit of a buffer between the real world and the
Speaker 1: fake world, but you still need to learn to manage money.
Speaker 1: And this idea that we're just gonna we're gonna have
Speaker 1: these small sponsorship deals. You go down to Christ's University
Speaker 1: Spirit make an appearance, you get five hundred bucks. Um.
Speaker 1: Forget about, Well, you can't forget about. But this is
Speaker 1: gonna hurt I think athletic departments who need that revenue
Speaker 1: in order to pay for all the things that they
Speaker 1: pay for. But it's it's also just gonna hurt the
Speaker 1: general idea of what college athletics is about. Like, look,
Speaker 1: you're coming here to get everything taken care of. And
Speaker 1: if you're good enough athlete, if you're good enough of
Speaker 1: your sport, when you're done playing, you can do as
Speaker 1: a sign, autographs, you can make appearances, you can get
Speaker 1: all that money. You don't actually need it now, And
Speaker 1: because you don't truly have a value, you're actually just
Speaker 1: getting paid to play, not getting paid for your name
Speaker 1: and likeness. It's not to say your likelist doesn't have
Speaker 1: any value, but really, all it's done is we pull
Speaker 1: them all together, and athletic departments were able to sell
Speaker 1: them on everything they do. And that's a lot more
Speaker 1: valuable than anyone person individually. But more than anything, it
Speaker 1: just gets away from the core ethics of what college
Speaker 1: athletics is about. To the athlete, your sport, your excellence
Speaker 1: in your sport got you into a college you couldn't
Speaker 1: get into, got you total support scholastically and athletically you
Speaker 1: get your degree, creates these relationships. You are a bount
Speaker 1: bouncing time, about bouncing money, about how to place the team,
Speaker 1: about how to play hard, and when you're done, now,
Speaker 1: how good you are determines what your first second, sometimes
Speaker 1: the third job is. So so let's go a little
Speaker 1: bit further into it. All right, I've been I've had
Speaker 1: when I've said taxes, I've had people like Nick Wright
Speaker 1: lose their mind and say, you know, that's not a
Speaker 1: reason to like it actually is a legit reason. Many
Speaker 1: of you are in college athletics or you've been around
Speaker 1: college athletics, so you know that you're not paying taxes
Speaker 1: on like ticket revenue. You're not paying normal taxes, so
Speaker 1: it allows it allows those profits to be greater, the
Speaker 1: net to be as good as the gross or close
Speaker 1: to the gross. The problem is that like Gavin Newsom
Speaker 1: does this, or they're making billions of dollars. First of individual,
Speaker 1: schools aren't making billions of dollars. So they're twenty year
Speaker 1: plus deals signed by you know, ten to fourteen member
Speaker 1: conferences that when you split it up, is the money good, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the expenses are also way higher than used to be. Like,
Speaker 1: we're only taking gross revenue and go like, look now
Speaker 1: they're making thirty million dollars a year. Yeah, but everything
Speaker 1: else costs money. Debt services higher, all the coaches make
Speaker 1: more money, the insurance is more money, that travel is
Speaker 1: more money, the offices are more money, the secretaries more like,
Speaker 1: everything costs more money, and so yeah, the revenue, they've
Speaker 1: been able to to generate more and more revenue than
Speaker 1: they ever have before. In collegiate athletics, they're also generating
Speaker 1: more revenue on the academic side, but no one seems
Speaker 1: to be attacking that college makes colleges make money off
Speaker 1: of all their students. The only difference is the reward
Speaker 1: for being on scholarship now is actually greater than it
Speaker 1: used to be. It's a scholarship for a lifetime. The
Speaker 1: facilities are better, schools are hard to get into, and
Speaker 1: yet for athletes you still have the opportunity to get
Speaker 1: in when others would not. You can come back whenever
Speaker 1: you want, get your degree, even getting advanced degree. And
Speaker 1: beyond the field are on the court coaching. You know,
Speaker 1: you get cost of a tennis now where you didn't previously.
Speaker 1: The deal is incredible. And this idea that taxes don't matter. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you start paying college athletes, they can be deemed employees,
Speaker 1: if their employees, then all of a sudden, all of
Speaker 1: their things that they get, not just the money and
Speaker 1: not just the scholarship, all can be taxed. And sometimes
Speaker 1: some are in fact tax in. Schools pay that already,
Speaker 1: but now anything they get can be seen as a
Speaker 1: benefit and be taxable. And then if they start taxing
Speaker 1: athletic departments, now all those other sports will of course suffer.
Speaker 1: So I just I get it. You somehow think that
Speaker 1: kids could go Why can't a kid go out because
Speaker 1: someone we're about. The reward is the scholarship. It's an
Speaker 1: incredible reward. It's hard to get than ever has been previously,
Speaker 1: it's more valuable than it ever was previously, and you
Speaker 1: get more once you get there for the rest of
Speaker 1: your life than you ever have previously. And yet part
Speaker 1: of our generations, part of our our makeup, is we
Speaker 1: want more, which is also why if you have this,
Speaker 1: it won't stop cheating. Whatever rules you put in place.
Speaker 1: If people want to go around the rules, they will.
Speaker 1: If you pay a kid five thousand dollars and somebody
Speaker 1: says I'm gonna pay you ten thousand dollars, they you know.
Speaker 1: I don't think the rules as they stand are unreasonable.
Speaker 1: Most people who live it don't think it's unreasonable. And yes,
Speaker 1: schools are making money, but you have to remember they're
Speaker 1: making money off everybody. Are they making more money than
Speaker 1: they used to. Yes, they're also spending more money than
Speaker 1: they used to, not just to get the next college athlete,
Speaker 1: but also to treat them better when they're there. And
Speaker 1: the taxes do, in fact matter. So I get that
Speaker 1: we act like this is a foregone conclusion. I think
Speaker 1: it's really interesting because in a couple of years, the
Speaker 1: NBA is probably gonna take guys straight out of high school.
Speaker 1: They can already go straight at high school of the
Speaker 1: che league, they don't, even though they can market themselves there.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure the n c A doesn't dig in
Speaker 1: and say, look, if you want to go to the
Speaker 1: minor leagues, you can. If you want to go go here,
Speaker 1: this is our rules. I I'd be interested legally what
Speaker 1: they can do, considering they're not a free market, nor
Speaker 1: have they ever portrayed themselves as a free market. Right now,
Speaker 1: they're losing public against public opinion, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they're losing in the court of law anyway. So look,
Speaker 1: we could go round and round, and I think by
Speaker 1: now you've heard my opinion on it. I think here's
Speaker 1: the thing that bothers me the most is if I
Speaker 1: had to say there were three groups, three groups that
Speaker 1: have bitched and complained about name, liminas and likeness, all
Speaker 1: three groups pissed me off, and I I guess I
Speaker 1: respect at least two of them, that maybe even three.
Speaker 1: Davin Newsom, he's an elected official. By the way, Look
Speaker 1: he went to Santa Clara. How much you think it
Speaker 1: cost to go to Santa claarir imagine if you had
Speaker 1: got that for free and you couldn't afford it. But
Speaker 1: like Gavin Newsom talking about some ship he has no
Speaker 1: idea about saying the student athlete gets nothing like it.
Speaker 1: Just in the state of California. The idea that you
Speaker 1: can go to cal Stanford, you see, like get into
Speaker 1: these schools you couldn't get into walk away with no
Speaker 1: student debt. And especially when you know those athletic departments
Speaker 1: are not they're not rolling in money like to to
Speaker 1: to pooh the education and opportunities when you're supposed to
Speaker 1: be as an elected official, wanting more and more of
Speaker 1: those opportunities, especially in people from lower socio economic backgrounds,
Speaker 1: but more than anything like he and Lebron James, Hey,
Speaker 1: you didn't fucking play college basketball. You haven't earned a
Speaker 1: scholarship like Lebron, this doesn't affect you. You were getting
Speaker 1: paid in high school anyway. Right. That's like the Ed
Speaker 1: O'Bannon thing, Like Ed O'Bannon leading this charge. Like, dude,
Speaker 1: Ed O'Bannon, why do you think he signed at un
Speaker 1: LV and then all of a sudden he goes to
Speaker 1: u c l A after you know v he gets
Speaker 1: on probation and by the way, Ed, like I don't
Speaker 1: know why it's weird, like ed O Bean has always
Speaker 1: been a super class guy and was a great player
Speaker 1: in the National Player of the Year and it didn't
Speaker 1: work out from the NBA, And yeah, I guess he
Speaker 1: hasn't used his name in likeness to kill it. But
Speaker 1: that's a U c l A and a U problem
Speaker 1: because most everyone else in the real world, if you
Speaker 1: go to a college and play basketball and have the
Speaker 1: career that ed'bannon has, you'd be calling their games right now.
Speaker 1: You'd be around their athletic partment right now, you'd be
Speaker 1: earning a salary because of who you were. He didn't,
Speaker 1: and I don't know why that's everybody else's problem. I
Speaker 1: feel like so so so like Lebron, who this doesn't
Speaker 1: pertain to you. You didn't if you played college basketball.
Speaker 1: I do think you'd have a different perspective on it.
Speaker 1: Same thing with Gavin Newsom. The last group is the Dukies.
Speaker 1: Billis is big on this. We've had him on the pod.
Speaker 1: He's actually a good friend and a mentor. Jay Williams.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's my friend or not my friend.
Speaker 1: I can't tell based upon the day, but I I
Speaker 1: generally like the guy and love the fact that he's
Speaker 1: gone through some really dark times in his life and
Speaker 1: is now super successful in this profession. But are we
Speaker 1: fucking kidding ourselves? Like the Dukies all have their jobs
Speaker 1: because for the most part, they are really good players,
Speaker 1: sometimes like Jay, great players, but because they went to Duke,
Speaker 1: it's like their skulls, you know, they have the secret combination,
Speaker 1: they get the secret handshake, so they they live on
Speaker 1: their reputation that was established when they played. Jay Williams.
Speaker 1: Everything he's done, it's not because he was the second
Speaker 1: pick in the draft and because he played the Chicago Bulls,
Speaker 1: you know, or that tragic accident. Like the reason that
Speaker 1: he has had all of these opportunities was he was
Speaker 1: a great player at arguably the best basketball school in
Speaker 1: the country, coached by the best basketball coach in the
Speaker 1: history of modern day basketball. And that opens doors for
Speaker 1: you even ten years after you're done playing. And so
Speaker 1: for the Dukies to complain about the system, which they
Speaker 1: benefit from more so than anybody else, I find to
Speaker 1: be at least ironic, at least ironic, but alast this
Speaker 1: seems to be a path that many of you think
Speaker 1: you want to go down. And I'm gonna point this out.
Speaker 1: It strikes me as the beginning of the end of
Speaker 1: college athletics and what it was about. And in this
Speaker 1: day and age where it's harder to get into and
Speaker 1: harder to pay for college than it ever has been before,
Speaker 1: you will go back and you will say, Godlib was right.
Speaker 1: It was better the way it was. It just was
Speaker 1: it was better the way it was. Yeah, people in
Speaker 1: charge make a little bit more money, then maybe you
Speaker 1: think they should. Welcome to life, buddy. All right, let's
Speaker 1: get you to a really, really fun conversation. Robert Clanahan
Speaker 1: is uh is a the workout guy of the stars.
Speaker 1: He has a new book out. It's called net Work.
Speaker 1: Get it net Work, Um. It's really kind of an
Speaker 1: interesting tale of a guy who was a good player
Speaker 1: in high school walk on in college to being the
Speaker 1: guru for so many of the superstars of the NBA.
Speaker 1: Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific
Speaker 1: on Fox Worts Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
Speaker 1: All right, let's welcome him into the All Ball Podcast.
Speaker 1: He's Uh. Rob mcclanahany joins us as uh, I want
Speaker 1: to talk about a bunch of things. Let's let's start
Speaker 1: with your journey, because now people reading about you, hearing
Speaker 1: about you, understanding how you work with so many NBA
Speaker 1: stars on on kind of perfecting their craft. You grew
Speaker 1: up where? H Yeah, I grew up in Rhode Island, Creston,
Speaker 1: Rhode Island, So I'm born and raised there and went
Speaker 1: through Catholical Boys school here and then end up walking
Speaker 1: on to Syracuse. So what they see like you skipped
Speaker 1: over a whole bunch of stuff like were you how good?
Speaker 1: How good were you in high school? I was an
Speaker 1: average player. I hadn't really played my junior year, started
Speaker 1: my senior one state savorit ship um probably could have
Speaker 1: played Division two, uh somewhere, but definitely no one, no
Speaker 1: D one offers at all. So then you you why
Speaker 1: did you go to Syracuse? Well, initially the plan was
Speaker 1: seeing the goal there for broadcasting any media kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: That's what I kind of wanted wanted to do, and
Speaker 1: then decided, you know, I'll try to walk on. So
Speaker 1: you get to Syracuse, you walk on. Your freshman years,
Speaker 1: you try and walk on. I try to walk in
Speaker 1: my freshman year and up growing up in Providence when
Speaker 1: the Big East was you know, the real Big East. Um,
Speaker 1: that's really I really got in the love of that,
Speaker 1: you know, part of the of the game. And um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I try to walk on my freshman year, remember a
Speaker 1: get in touch with Mike Hopkins and uh Louis Are
Speaker 1: and those guys, and they said, you could work out
Speaker 1: with the team. Doesn't mean you're gonna, you know, make
Speaker 1: the team unless your dad, you know, doing it's a
Speaker 1: nice check. And that wasn't happening. So coach, let me,
Speaker 1: you know, work out with the team. I didn't make
Speaker 1: it my freshman year. They took no walk on. So
Speaker 1: I asked what I had to do, and they said,
Speaker 1: you know, put out a lot of weight, you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully you grow a little bit. I six ft and
Speaker 1: I put on thirty pounds group two inches, and um
Speaker 1: ended up making the team. All right, see you make
Speaker 1: the team in nine eight right? That was the team
Speaker 1: we played against in the n c A tournament. If
Speaker 1: I recall in Indianapolis, Uh, let's see here how many
Speaker 1: I can get it? The Neon game on Thursday, I know,
Speaker 1: I know those are the best or the worst. It
Speaker 1: all depends we actually played that game. Yeah, because yeah,
Speaker 1: because your your season's over, or you get to watch
Speaker 1: everybody else win and you already won like that. So
Speaker 1: it became so that team was eaton Thomas Uh, Ryan Blackwell,
Speaker 1: Jason Hart. Who else is on? Alan Griffin, Damon Brown? Uh.
Speaker 1: The team was talented, but not very good. Like why
Speaker 1: wasn't that team better? Yeah? You know, I don't think
Speaker 1: we had a lot of shooters, you know, Uh, And
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. Man, we were just
Speaker 1: up and down all year. You know. We we went
Speaker 1: falling over them and Lewis you know, two or three straight. Um,
Speaker 1: we just didn't come together what we needed to. And Uh,
Speaker 1: I remember remember being watching tournament with coach and uh
Speaker 1: helping Syracuse and we're like, we get that new game.
Speaker 1: It's just the vibe wasn't good. And then if we wanted,
Speaker 1: we would have played Ober. I'm right. Yeah, So yeah
Speaker 1: that was that was the only year I was there.
Speaker 1: We actually lost in the first round. Okay, so what
Speaker 1: what was what did you for your profession? What you
Speaker 1: do today? What was it about that experience at Syracuse
Speaker 1: that you learned that you drew upon, Because I will
Speaker 1: say that like, and people think I'm like anti Syracuse
Speaker 1: is dumb whatever, um, But I I do think that
Speaker 1: I think not playing man a man hurts those guys,
Speaker 1: uh um, you know, like Jason hart now and didn't
Speaker 1: hurt Jason hard who became a great kind of tough,
Speaker 1: hard nosed defender in the NBA and lasted for over
Speaker 1: a decade whatever. But I do think that that for
Speaker 1: four stars, like like, look, they literally don't learn anything
Speaker 1: about man and man defense during their time there, And
Speaker 1: there's also kind of a mentality that that has to
Speaker 1: be changed. Um. Offensively, I feel like hop late in
Speaker 1: his run there, maybe they like the last Final four team,
Speaker 1: they ran a little bit more kind of higher level stuff,
Speaker 1: but it's very very basic in terms of what they
Speaker 1: do offensively. I don't know if that hurts guys, but
Speaker 1: and and maybe it's that Syracuse has had guys that
Speaker 1: were underrated going into Syracuse that became overrated because Syracuse
Speaker 1: such a big program and is so successful in the
Speaker 1: Big East. And then they because they were maybe overvalued,
Speaker 1: they get to the NBA and they don't outside of Carmela,
Speaker 1: they don't have the same impact. But I'm wondering what
Speaker 1: about your experience at Syracuse. First, why did why did
Speaker 1: it help you get to where you are today? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think the main reason, uh I fall off with
Speaker 1: the workout stuff initially was because because Mike Hopkins, um
Speaker 1: you know he's he's really really good at play development.
Speaker 1: His mentor was was Gurg you know Greg, and uh
Speaker 1: so it's kind of I didn't know. I just thought
Speaker 1: where guys out was, you know, put them through which
Speaker 1: a couple of drills, you know, passing the ball rebounded.
Speaker 1: But hop was in there like the same way you
Speaker 1: played tag from care in the workout things like that,
Speaker 1: talking trash, sweating and being being a major part of
Speaker 1: the work not just passing the ball. So I thought
Speaker 1: that was pretty cool. I was in a lot of
Speaker 1: those workouts in the guard groups. Um So he was
Speaker 1: definitely my mentor early on kind of still is and
Speaker 1: all all that stuff, and uh you know that's when
Speaker 1: I first learned about working guys out really really can't
Speaker 1: be And Jason Hart was it was a workout feed on.
Speaker 1: I mean this guy was NonStop, you know, he approved
Speaker 1: every single year. Um So, watching Jay go through the
Speaker 1: work as a hops what was really cool to see.
Speaker 1: It's funny because it's like everybody wants a guy like
Speaker 1: Hop to be I didn't have that, Like Sean Saton
Speaker 1: worked me out, but it wasn't and he was he
Speaker 1: was great, but because he did so much more coaching,
Speaker 1: Like once the season started, I didn't have a guy,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't feel like I kept up with
Speaker 1: my workouts and you know, look, my thing became. I
Speaker 1: didn't think I could shoot, so I wouldn't shoot, and
Speaker 1: nobody believed I could shoot because I didn't believe myself.
Speaker 1: But I didn't have anybody kind of supporting me. Like
Speaker 1: That's kind of the magic to what hop does, right,
Speaker 1: is that is that not only does he is does
Speaker 1: he work you out, but he gives you this un
Speaker 1: dying belief in yourself that you think you can achieve,
Speaker 1: which allows you to achieve. Yeah, his energy is ridiculous,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's always positive. You know, Jace Hart
Speaker 1: and him were extremely close. Um, and he believed Jason
Speaker 1: And again he was kind of like that too. You know,
Speaker 1: nobody he couldn't really shoot that much. Uh, no one
Speaker 1: believes you could shoot. And at a times Jason and
Speaker 1: he could shoot. And Hopp was the one, like you
Speaker 1: just said and made him believe, you know, through the work.
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like when I work guys now,
Speaker 1: you know, if you work at all summer, you go
Speaker 1: into the season like you're confident you're gonna make shots.
Speaker 1: You know. It's I always say, it's like you know,
Speaker 1: taking a test in high school. If you have an
Speaker 1: exam on Friday, study all week, you're going there pretty confident.
Speaker 1: If you're starting the bus Friday morning for the first time,
Speaker 1: you're going they're like, oh god, you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna do well. That's so app was really good at that.
Speaker 1: You know, he helds you accountable. If I mean there
Speaker 1: were times hot if you didn't show up a workout,
Speaker 1: he would go to your room again, get you up, literally,
Speaker 1: you would do that. Um. His energy was great and
Speaker 1: and every practice in all my years Syracuse, they still
Speaker 1: do it. Every practice starts with play development. It was
Speaker 1: you know, twenty thirty minutes God group, big group, small
Speaker 1: forward group. And at that point it was uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Bernie Fine Louis Or and then Hop and then later
Speaker 1: on his Trey Weaver. But and that that was a
Speaker 1: big thing of Circus, just just getting better, you know,
Speaker 1: practice weren't long because we didn't really have to scout
Speaker 1: too much, you know, the zone and that kind of
Speaker 1: the stuff, So it was really just working guys out
Speaker 1: before practice, at practice, and after practice. It's fascinating, fascinating
Speaker 1: how different and and Hopps told me that, like, it's
Speaker 1: one of the things about playing his zone is that
Speaker 1: you would be amazed at how much it allows you
Speaker 1: to focus on other on other things. Um. Okay, so
Speaker 1: your last year's heer incuses one year, so oh one
Speaker 1: we um. We started out nine oh and uh. We
Speaker 1: end up losing in the first round of the biggest
Speaker 1: tournament to Miami and that killed our seatings. We were
Speaker 1: probably gonna be a two seed because of that loss.
Speaker 1: I think we're the only nine one people lost to
Speaker 1: nine seat because I lost in the fourth season and
Speaker 1: we ended up playing um Michigan State since sixteen in
Speaker 1: over Hills, and Baham was not happy about that seat obviously,
Speaker 1: but you know, it was it would be Kentucky in
Speaker 1: the second round in Cleveland. We have vatation on Prince
Speaker 1: and those guys, but one by point, and we were
Speaker 1: feeling good about ourselves. We're a really good team, and
Speaker 1: I think we were up like fifteen half on Michigan State,
Speaker 1: and I remember the first place thinking to come out
Speaker 1: of the second half is ill drew up a play
Speaker 1: for like, um back to a screen to mope finale
Speaker 1: you open the place went now said that was it.
Speaker 1: They just I think they wanted that, like twelve. It
Speaker 1: was a thirty points waying something. The second half wasn't
Speaker 1: it was incredible. So that was a tough way in
Speaker 1: the season because that was Yeah, I think you know
Speaker 1: we were final four team, but the seating didn't help.
Speaker 1: And then losing in the first round the Big East
Speaker 1: really killed us. So you graduate and then what and
Speaker 1: I want to coach in college? So um, they had
Speaker 1: made a call for me to uh Seth Greenberg without
Speaker 1: even really interviewing. I got the g J out of
Speaker 1: South Florida. Wait wait before you, before you, before you
Speaker 1: get to the South Florida one. Yeah, didn't you play
Speaker 1: for Syracuse against Providence, like your your last Providence game
Speaker 1: your senior year? What was that like? So it was
Speaker 1: actually my junior year. Um, so it was the UM
Speaker 1: two thousand, So yeah, two thousand was my junior year.
Speaker 1: That's when we lost Michigan State. So that was really
Speaker 1: cool because I have my family has seven courts, I see,
Speaker 1: and that's how I grew up loving the Big East.
Speaker 1: And uh so it was funny because we played out
Speaker 1: Providence for eighteen and at this point and about to
Speaker 1: the nineteen oh up big he puts me in the game.
Speaker 1: Place goes nuts, and my family and my mother and
Speaker 1: my father everybody, and you have to sign about the
Speaker 1: orange man that went like all the way across the
Speaker 1: frest room opposite. You know, you gotta be kidding me, um,
Speaker 1: but it's Grady got gotta shot up, missed it. Um.
Speaker 1: But that was really cool because that's where on the
Speaker 1: state championship too, at the civic set of day at
Speaker 1: the dunk and so you know, kind of game full
Speaker 1: circle for me. So that was pretty cool moment. Alright,
Speaker 1: So Beheim calls Seth Greenberg and gets you a g
Speaker 1: a job at at at South Florida and full disclosure,
Speaker 1: I know Seth Seths like uh like kind of like
Speaker 1: an uncle to me. Right, he used to be a
Speaker 1: long Beach state when I when I left, when I
Speaker 1: left under Dame. Um he recruited me. I know, you
Speaker 1: know Brian yank Kelovich I think was on staff there,
Speaker 1: so is Dave zim roth um right and Clive one
Speaker 1: Right who played it was great player at pitt obviously
Speaker 1: is his long time right right hand man. So you're
Speaker 1: fresh out of college, all you know is probably all
Speaker 1: you know is Rhode Island and Syracuse. Hoop. You show
Speaker 1: up at South Florida, What was that like? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: joked with my mom's car, drove down in my inner
Speaker 1: cameray and moved into Tampa. There were in the campus,
Speaker 1: and uh it was cool. I kind of did everything,
Speaker 1: you know, look at you a dones. I helped break
Speaker 1: down film actually where guys out. I was actually back
Speaker 1: up point guards for practices. Um, so it was a
Speaker 1: different Uh. I didn't realize that college was like that
Speaker 1: in a sense where it's not a lot of basketball,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's making sure you know, kids are
Speaker 1: in school and make sure that they get said, we're
Speaker 1: running camps, recruiting, sending out letters. You know. Um, you
Speaker 1: know you can't work guys out more than like an
Speaker 1: hour week, you know. So in that sense, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be on the court, you know, and and then
Speaker 1: enjoyed as much as I thought I would quite honestly, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, but me and Yank became very close friends.
Speaker 1: He was my roommate on the roads and rough so
Speaker 1: he was a great guy. And talk Jo Casino, She's
Speaker 1: done a lot, have been Kenny and those guys so
Speaker 1: Um and Clyde. Ball was great. So I I had
Speaker 1: some good guys around me. Um, but the experience of
Speaker 1: not being on the court all day long and I
Speaker 1: didn't really like UM. So I ended up, you know,
Speaker 1: leaving there at May. But we had a good year.
Speaker 1: We're seven and oh we we like four fifth game
Speaker 1: of the season, I'm sorry, eighth game of the season
Speaker 1: we played at Syracuse, which was crazy. So, you know,
Speaker 1: six months removed in Syracuse. Here I am, you know,
Speaker 1: on the other bench, um and when I'm losing the
Speaker 1: game that was That was my only scout of the
Speaker 1: year that was with Syracuse. So so you you leave
Speaker 1: in May and what you decided to do golf in
Speaker 1: your own then yeah, it was while I was down there, Doug,
Speaker 1: I met the guy's IMG academy, so you know, everything
Speaker 1: happens for a reason. And I met Joe Buona Star
Speaker 1: and those guys IMG. And that's when they had junior
Speaker 1: Collee didn't have any facilities for guys out at and
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, you can work guys out for
Speaker 1: a limit. This is this is kind of cool, you know.
Speaker 1: So I went home, I went back to my high school,
Speaker 1: Bishop Henderton High School, became as that teacher, moving my mother.
Speaker 1: So things are going really well. And uh and every
Speaker 1: summer because that summers off because I was a teacher
Speaker 1: phys that teacher. And I interned at IMG Academy with
Speaker 1: Joe and rebounded for Garnett TYLERU, Tayshawn Prince, uh Al
Speaker 1: Harrington and uh, you know kind of that's my first
Speaker 1: looking to really you know, working guys out, you know,
Speaker 1: full time for a job. Um, okay, so when did
Speaker 1: when did you make it into a job. Well, then
Speaker 1: Joe left, I m j O six so seven open
Speaker 1: the facility Impact Basketball in Las Vegas. He took me
Speaker 1: his right hand man did that for a year. That
Speaker 1: was like Jared Dully, Ryan Gomes kind of guys um
Speaker 1: heel fear. And then I met bj Armstrong and Bob
Speaker 1: Myers um and on Tell Worsenman and I was recommended
Speaker 1: through Troy Weaver at the time, who I think it
Speaker 1: was with these thunder of Jazz and Troy was my
Speaker 1: assistant in Syracuse by senior year, and they wanted to
Speaker 1: work out guys full time, which I didn't even exist.
Speaker 1: So we arm flew me into his house and Bob
Speaker 1: Myers DJ and UH came up this side theady. Let's
Speaker 1: high about full time? Do you a pre draft work
Speaker 1: was out in the summer sat Monica's High school and
Speaker 1: UM see guys during the year. They had a guy
Speaker 1: like that before a little bit part time, you know,
Speaker 1: neil o'sha was now with the Blazers, but after me
Speaker 1: I to him, it was they brought me in. But
Speaker 1: this time it was full time. So who was the
Speaker 1: guy who you first uh kind of became their guy
Speaker 1: and and and and had kind of that first initial
Speaker 1: relationship with because that's generally kind of I feel like
Speaker 1: how it works is like, yeah, you were working for
Speaker 1: arn and working out all his guys and and popping
Speaker 1: in and and but there's usually a guy or two
Speaker 1: that you connect with UM that really kind of uh
Speaker 1: nights you, if you will, to the rest of the
Speaker 1: NBA community. Yeah, definitely, I rewinded a little bit. My
Speaker 1: first couple of guys that I had pro were Ruben
Speaker 1: Garces who was a pro the time overseas and Ryan
Speaker 1: Golds was the junior or Providence and Ryan I worked
Speaker 1: at Ryan Free became all American um and then he
Speaker 1: went pro kept me on. But my first big break
Speaker 1: was getting at the ABC D camp and Uh, I
Speaker 1: hounded Sunny. I mean hounded up this story in my
Speaker 1: book about how I fact his house every day for
Speaker 1: like fifty days. When we returned my course, I literally
Speaker 1: fact this house. Finally, Robbie Harstein calls me the directors
Speaker 1: that you got a stuff fact and he said you're in.
Speaker 1: You're in. So that was a big break I got
Speaker 1: in my first year I coaching Matt Doherty. Um, we're
Speaker 1: just good fire to the Carolina and uh he met
Speaker 1: Sonny and I said, thank you, said who you? I
Speaker 1: said on Roy mcclinic, and you go, oh yeah, yeah, thanks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Every coach in the world called me you facked my house.
Speaker 1: I liked your persistence, but man, and from there we
Speaker 1: became extremely close. And that's where I met Derek Rose
Speaker 1: and Kevin Love. So you fast forward to when Arn't
Speaker 1: hired me. He end up signing Derek already had a
Speaker 1: relationship with Derek Kevin when with a little Asian if
Speaker 1: I still worked him out. Um, And those are the
Speaker 1: first true guys that became extremely close with UH. And
Speaker 1: then Kevin said, and I bring in my roommate, you know.
Speaker 1: And it was your roommate. This guy Russell he played
Speaker 1: a little bit last year. He's all right, mind he
Speaker 1: comes by. It was Russell Westbrook. So crazy because then
Speaker 1: you know the o A draft. You know, we're in
Speaker 1: that class. And I had had all three of those
Speaker 1: guys on top of Brooke and Robin Gallinary and did
Speaker 1: you the stand? So it happened very fast to me.
Speaker 1: But I would say Derek and Kevin and Russell was
Speaker 1: my first main group, you know, for three years every day.
Speaker 1: That kind of helped me get to where I want
Speaker 1: to be. Um. In your book and the book is Network,
Speaker 1: Um the in in the book it it does talk
Speaker 1: about Kevin Durant as this ridiculous workout fiend like he
Speaker 1: and I have. There's a story Scotty Brooks told me Um.
Speaker 1: And Scotty told me, I remember he was back when
Speaker 1: he's coach in Oklama City. He told me the first
Speaker 1: time they made the playoffs and they lost the Lakers,
Speaker 1: they had exit meetings like the next day and he
Speaker 1: had Kevin in and he goes, what are your plans.
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't know. I just I want to
Speaker 1: go I want to go hoop. And he's like, Kevin, listen,
Speaker 1: you've been hooping, you know, since you got in the NBA,
Speaker 1: Like I want you to take two or three weeks
Speaker 1: and not touch of basketballs. Like I got you. He's like,
Speaker 1: so he literally called put on speaker phone, called this
Speaker 1: travel agents, like, hey, we went to this island, like
Speaker 1: I don't know the multi eaves or something like I'll
Speaker 1: set you up. You'll go like, don't hoops. Oh, I
Speaker 1: got you. I'll figure it out. So he's like, all right,
Speaker 1: where you going now He's like, well, I'm going back home.
Speaker 1: He's like, okay, check in with me tomorrow, but don't hoop.
Speaker 1: Give give yourself a couple of weeks to just clear
Speaker 1: your brain. So the next day he couldn't get ahold him,
Speaker 1: couldn't get ahold him, couldn't get ahold of him. Finally
Speaker 1: he texts him back. He's like, uh, He's like, you know,
Speaker 1: like everything okay, and and he's like, yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: checking in with you, Kevin and Katie's like, sorry, I
Speaker 1: was just hooping for the last three hours, right, Like,
Speaker 1: he's ridiculous that they had to like dial back practices
Speaker 1: because all those guys in Oklaham City just could follow
Speaker 1: his lead and he would have these like hour and
Speaker 1: a half two hour workouts after their practices, and they
Speaker 1: felt like it would hurt the hurt the team if
Speaker 1: they were doing long practice. In addition to so, what
Speaker 1: was is he of the guys you worked with? Does
Speaker 1: he have kind of the greatest energy for working out
Speaker 1: or who else is in that class? Oh? Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: probably no. I mean he's right there with Russell Uh
Speaker 1: Russell one guy I've had a turned down. But the
Speaker 1: Durant thing is is right out of que I mean,
Speaker 1: Durant would fly me in once a month for five
Speaker 1: years work come out in season. Now we would just
Speaker 1: go thirty minutes, um minute. But it's it's crazy because
Speaker 1: you know, okay, see that they have very strict rules
Speaker 1: about having people come in, even though it was close
Speaker 1: to Sam and obviously Troy Um. They don't want to
Speaker 1: bend any rules for anybody. So I remember saying to
Speaker 1: that may listen Kevin Durant, He's gonna find the gym.
Speaker 1: So but we just came back to the rules. So
Speaker 1: I remember one trip being Kevin found like this little
Speaker 1: church gym and it was about an hour and twenty
Speaker 1: minutes round trip just to work out for forty minutes
Speaker 1: a kind of night. Um. And you know, I told
Speaker 1: the story on Botus podcast the other day about we
Speaker 1: flew to Paris from l A one time and uh,
Speaker 1: we got stuck in on the private plane in New
Speaker 1: York and we we had delayed six hours and land
Speaker 1: in Paris. It's the fifteen trip. We land at midnight.
Speaker 1: This guy wants to work out right now. He could
Speaker 1: tell those guys that, you know, a front to find
Speaker 1: the gym. I said, oh my god. So we found
Speaker 1: the gym. I think it was like Tony Parker's like
Speaker 1: club team jam with high school and we worked out
Speaker 1: like a wan asket and it's one of the best
Speaker 1: workouts I've ever seen anybody has. And uh yeah, he
Speaker 1: SE's like like like when when you say when you
Speaker 1: try to relate to people, it's one of the best.
Speaker 1: What about what about the workout for example? Do you
Speaker 1: remember that made it so happen? I mean, besides the
Speaker 1: fact that we were all exhausted. We just landed in Paris.
Speaker 1: It's one of you know, having that in the background.
Speaker 1: He made every single shot. He his energy was ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Forget that it was one of them in Paris. It
Speaker 1: could have been noon. The energy was stop notch um,
Speaker 1: and it was just I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: It's just he made everything. We worked on posts high,
Speaker 1: post transition and we could have gone three hours. I
Speaker 1: was one of the are we gonna stop? It's you know,
Speaker 1: one through in the morning here. Um, Well, that's just
Speaker 1: how Kevin is. And it's like, you know that one
Speaker 1: workout is why he's great when you do that all
Speaker 1: the time. You know that. And Russell was another one.
Speaker 1: And I just I beg to take days off. So
Speaker 1: I know what Scott Wiscott is coming from with that,
Speaker 1: because one time I said, Russell takes Sunday off, let's
Speaker 1: get after Monday. Just give me one day. He just rest.
Speaker 1: He said, I got you, Okay, you're right, because I
Speaker 1: always say rest is actually part of the training schedule.
Speaker 1: I'm being lazy. They wants to rest, you know, so
Speaker 1: you can recover. And I got a call from somebody
Speaker 1: c l A might have been like Scott Carson, one
Speaker 1: of those guys, and he said, your buddiest shoot said,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, he's out there working out with his
Speaker 1: father on a Sunday afternoon. So, um my, My Russell
Speaker 1: Westberg story I heard from an NBA guy was, uh,
Speaker 1: they went to see the Rico Heines workouts at the
Speaker 1: men's gym, and Russell was over on his own court
Speaker 1: with the gun, you know, with the machine that fires
Speaker 1: balls back, and they were like dudes were stopping and
Speaker 1: watching him because he was going full speed for forty
Speaker 1: five minutes getting shots up and and just add okay.
Speaker 1: So here here's the question though, right, Russell Westbrook is
Speaker 1: a great player, and he has a great work ethic,
Speaker 1: and yet most guys, the older they get in their career,
Speaker 1: they start to lose a little bit of the juice
Speaker 1: in their legs and their shot gets better. How come
Speaker 1: by your estimation he struggled last year with the shooting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, he definitely struggled. Um, So I mean, so
Speaker 1: what's your question? Why why do you struggle? You think? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, like I again, it's it's kind of counterintuitive.
Speaker 1: It's not a work ethic thing. It's not like he's
Speaker 1: not working at it and it's not and it's and
Speaker 1: it's honestly not like like his hands aren't bad, like
Speaker 1: is it was there is there was there something traumatic
Speaker 1: mentally like why as a guy you know Russell, Like
Speaker 1: one of the things is when you work out with guys,
Speaker 1: you spend this much time with guys, you know them
Speaker 1: as well or better than they know themselves. Why did
Speaker 1: he have a year where it felt like a step
Speaker 1: back shooting wise? In your opinion, Yeah, I think Russell puts,
Speaker 1: you know, but the pressure on himself and he wants
Speaker 1: to will his way, you know, to win every game,
Speaker 1: sometimes on his own. So I think, you know, if
Speaker 1: you look back, there's some of the shots. I think
Speaker 1: shot selections love to do with it. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: his bid range we worked out for years and it's
Speaker 1: it's one of the best in the game. As you know,
Speaker 1: that elbow area is perfect for him. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: but his films fine, his legs are fine. It's it's
Speaker 1: a valid question, you know. But um, I think in
Speaker 1: the end sometimes with him, is it might be just
Speaker 1: shot selection, you know. Um, you know, sometimes it shoults
Speaker 1: fade away three. Sometimes we shoot a thirty footer. Um,
Speaker 1: but when he gets in that fifteen seven and eighty
Speaker 1: foot range, you know, he's ridiculous that what he shot
Speaker 1: from three last year? Um, I know it wasn't good. Um,
Speaker 1: but I think, you know, hopefully, I think this year,
Speaker 1: with you know, having more shooters, I think around him,
Speaker 1: you know, the presenters might go up. I think he
Speaker 1: might take better shots and maybe less shot too. A
Speaker 1: Thames out there. Yeah, well it'll be It's gonna be
Speaker 1: gonna be fascinating. Um, it really is. You know, what
Speaker 1: about what about John Wall? Like, uh, what what's what's
Speaker 1: he like? I know there's a story in your book
Speaker 1: about him texting you mid game. I'm not sure what
Speaker 1: what was he texting you mid game? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we're I think it was in Boston and I was
Speaker 1: at the game, and I think he's he's shot like
Speaker 1: what have been playoffs time? I guess the Celtics second round.
Speaker 1: I think he was going, uh, you think he said
Speaker 1: like one for tennis something and he just said, you know,
Speaker 1: because I was I think, like second rows, So what
Speaker 1: are you seeing? Man? Like, what the heck am I doing?
Speaker 1: And I just said, simply you stuff? Following through John
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, when he missed the shots, he kind
Speaker 1: of flicks it in and runs away instead of the
Speaker 1: staying with a shot. Uh. And Derek Rose was the
Speaker 1: same way for a while. But um, that's all I
Speaker 1: said to him, Just just follow through him and hold
Speaker 1: it up there. You know. Sometimes you're just flicking and
Speaker 1: running away. So that's that's That's pretty much it. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys haven't changed their shots, you know,
Speaker 1: Derek and somebody who didn't have bad form. It's just
Speaker 1: the might I have a little hits and then followed
Speaker 1: through And to me, it's not it's not rocket science.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't need all these gimmicks. You know.
Speaker 1: You know it's at basketball when you fly in to
Speaker 1: work out a guy, right and like you come in
Speaker 1: and now everybody in the league knows who you are?
Speaker 1: What's that? What's that like for the team? How do
Speaker 1: they how do how do teams treat you? How to
Speaker 1: because teams have their own player development coach as well,
Speaker 1: many of them. You know, I have friends who they
Speaker 1: used to do this and then they joined a team
Speaker 1: to kind of get in the league. And you you
Speaker 1: come in, you know what, what's that? What's that feeling
Speaker 1: like for you, how do they how they treat you?
Speaker 1: How do you handle it? Initially, yeah, it was it
Speaker 1: wasn't great. Um when you know, no one real knew
Speaker 1: who I was. And not only that, but it's like
Speaker 1: what's going on here? Like because when I started doing this,
Speaker 1: there wasn't really anaby I was doing it, so it's like,
Speaker 1: what is this? They don't really know what it was. Um.
Speaker 1: Fortunately for me, it was mostly franchise guys, so they
Speaker 1: weren't going to explain too much. But yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a story one time about the excellent not being happy.
Speaker 1: It's working at Alt Harford and um, you know he
Speaker 1: just didn't you know what while you while you flying
Speaker 1: this guy in right here. And I wasn't saying Nick
Speaker 1: was bad. It was just more, Um, I've worked about
Speaker 1: for three years. We have a you know, strategy and
Speaker 1: workout that we do. It's just it's just basically you know, maintenance. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, so yeah a lot of resistance are only
Speaker 1: on for sure. But as we as we went through
Speaker 1: the years and I you know, I rotation me a
Speaker 1: little better, ended up being uh, end up working out
Speaker 1: just fine. You know. It's funny when I'm sure, when
Speaker 1: you're in high school and then you're at Syracuse and
Speaker 1: we always used to have big guys like man, stop
Speaker 1: shooting threes, get into the hoop and work on your
Speaker 1: post game. And now all of a sudden, you know
Speaker 1: now and now it's the you know, the Brook Lopez
Speaker 1: is shooting threes where you never shot him before, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's fast. How have how have your
Speaker 1: workouts evolved during your time? Because I mean, this has
Speaker 1: been fifteen years you've been doing it, and the league
Speaker 1: has changed so dramatically, right, Like, I mean, think of
Speaker 1: how good a score Carmelo was. Okay, but Carmelo is
Speaker 1: a great score in the host and in the mid range.
Speaker 1: And probably the thing he lacked the most was, you know,
Speaker 1: the ability to shoot the three. Like now the game
Speaker 1: is so incredibly different. How has it changed your approach
Speaker 1: a lot? It's funny brought up Brooke because two years
Speaker 1: ago when Brooke, you know, I didn't have a deal. Um,
Speaker 1: he came in and he decided to move to l
Speaker 1: A for summer trained with me because I get pre
Speaker 1: drafts were very familiar with each other. They said, dude,
Speaker 1: I need to get my game. Any book will always shoot,
Speaker 1: as you know, but you never really was putting a
Speaker 1: position to do it. Um. So he started, you can
Speaker 1: work on the reason man picking pop in transition three,
Speaker 1: things like that, and I said, let's do it. So
Speaker 1: we signed a two million dollars deal minimum with Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: and we worked out all summer long. I don't think
Speaker 1: we did the post one time. Um. And it was
Speaker 1: the opposite pre draft honestly, like he all you wanted
Speaker 1: to do was shoot, you know, tipo a big man,
Speaker 1: I can shoot two. But I said, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: a permit a guy. You gotta play your seven one.
Speaker 1: You know. So he's got he's got a great feet,
Speaker 1: he's got great feet, like he's he's very mobile down there,
Speaker 1: very mobile and great moves down their place slow, which
Speaker 1: I love. Um. But it's funny you said that because
Speaker 1: you know, Brooke was the first example that I had
Speaker 1: of ten years later. It's like the opposite workout when
Speaker 1: I did with him in pre draft. You know. Wait,
Speaker 1: so and he ended up you know, uh, killing foo Milwaukee.
Speaker 1: It's fifty four millions from two millions, I'm making like
Speaker 1: you know whatever, thirteen million, fourteen million years. So, um,
Speaker 1: the game has changed completely, So I've definitely had the
Speaker 1: tail of my workouts for that. There's no more quote
Speaker 1: unquote big men and the Kevin Loves a good example
Speaker 1: about six seven years ago in Minnesota, especially work Aileman
Speaker 1: we saw doing most stuff with the elbow pinch post um,
Speaker 1: you know, picking pop stuff with him and kmart Um.
Speaker 1: So he was the first one. I kind of did
Speaker 1: that with Um because I knew we could shoot. But
Speaker 1: as we went on throughout the years, that's five five
Speaker 1: years especially, I mean I've had a really work on,
Speaker 1: you know, teaching these sixteen guys at the shoot agen footers,
Speaker 1: you know, and now you have six nine point guards
Speaker 1: and six nine centers. So it's changed completely. In quite honest,
Speaker 1: if you can't shoot in this league, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: tough to stay there, you know. And that's why I
Speaker 1: think Ben and the Honests really have to work on that,
Speaker 1: especially in the playoffs, you know, I mean the playoffs
Speaker 1: from the scarring puts out there and guys are playing
Speaker 1: you with the far line, and now it's that's that's tough.
Speaker 1: That's toff um. Okay, let let's let's go to step STEPHF.
Speaker 1: Curry who wrote the forward for your book. The book
Speaker 1: is network net like basketball work. Um you first met
Speaker 1: Steph win Um, I would say about it three year
Speaker 1: in the league, before he's an All Star. He was
Speaker 1: in town in l A doing some commercials and through
Speaker 1: his agent Jeff Austin, you know, he came in to
Speaker 1: work out. Um, this is when he's coming off, you know,
Speaker 1: the ankle injuries things like that, and uh port him
Speaker 1: out of private Jim and bell Air and the private
Speaker 1: m bell Air is that the one that looks like Staples? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: pretty much every day. Yeah. And and for for people
Speaker 1: who don't know, like we won't give away location, there's
Speaker 1: the gym and NBA T is actually practiced there where
Speaker 1: that it shoot around and everything. Yeah, where it looks
Speaker 1: it looks just like the Staples, the same stable center
Speaker 1: floor or whatever. And they have pick up games there
Speaker 1: and obviously workouts there, so you you meet staff. What
Speaker 1: was your opinion before you met him? Um? Well, obviously
Speaker 1: besides the shooting, Um, you know, I think he had
Speaker 1: to get more in control. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of bad turnovers. I think he could do
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff and less dribbles. But besides that,
Speaker 1: I thought his game was unbelievable. I heard about his
Speaker 1: work ethic, and I heard about what a great human
Speaker 1: being he is. Um. You know, so when we first met,
Speaker 1: we just I kind of just game a kind of
Speaker 1: a generic first workout, you know that I do with
Speaker 1: a guy and kind of get to know each other.
Speaker 1: And but it's funny because he talks about in the forward,
Speaker 1: you know, like five minutes in he was going hard.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'm gonna pick up now next,
Speaker 1: you know, talking trash bumping on and you couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: I mean, i know one's had for ten minutes and
Speaker 1: I'm already in there, you know, you know, garden me
Speaker 1: kind of like hops on me, you know, and U
Speaker 1: you know, from there, it's just we continue to have
Speaker 1: a great relationship and and intertinuing train. Um. Okay, So
Speaker 1: so uh uh in terms of in terms of stuff,
Speaker 1: how did it? How did it proceed? Right? So you
Speaker 1: have that first workout and was he like was he in?
Speaker 1: Was he on the kool aid? Right then? Like when
Speaker 1: can we do this again? Or was it Hey, I'm
Speaker 1: in l A and you know, uh, next time I'm
Speaker 1: on l A, I'll hit you. No, we kept going,
Speaker 1: he's staying in Lay for a few more days. Um.
Speaker 1: He came back I think a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: and this is I would say August in our approaching
Speaker 1: labor day in training camp. And then you had me
Speaker 1: fly into Oakland for about ten days before training camp. Um.
Speaker 1: And it was it was kind of cool too because
Speaker 1: this was a time of boy my eyes just got
Speaker 1: hired and that was my boss um for a long time.
Speaker 1: Mark Jackson was here. I worked on Mark Sun for
Speaker 1: a while, so it was very easy transition to go
Speaker 1: in there and working about facility things like that. Verse familiar,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't one of those things. Was this guy
Speaker 1: made it much easier for for everybody. Um. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then Steph's signing under arms, so I do all his
Speaker 1: under arm towards in Asia, probably with him to every
Speaker 1: single one. And then we started the SC thirty camp,
Speaker 1: which has been unbelievable, the top thirty players in the
Speaker 1: country every year. At first it was just guards. Now
Speaker 1: it's some big stewo um, but you know, I've met
Speaker 1: a lot of guys through that, and uh yeah, it
Speaker 1: kind of just some that one workout kind of just
Speaker 1: took off and and and here he is doing the forward,
Speaker 1: which I don't really appreciate. So what's what in terms
Speaker 1: of like this is Miles Simon's one of my dear
Speaker 1: friends obviously is the He was a player development coach.
Speaker 1: Now he's assistant coach with the Lakers, and one of
Speaker 1: the guys that used to be his guys with Chris
Speaker 1: Bosh and he tells me the story of um after
Speaker 1: his first year of playing with Lebron, he was like, look,
Speaker 1: I gotta work on my catch and shoot like mid
Speaker 1: too deep mid range stuff all the way out to three.
Speaker 1: It's like I've never really worked on that, right, like
Speaker 1: I've always you know, like when he was in Toronto,
Speaker 1: like he was given the ball in the post facing
Speaker 1: up right, so he had to kind of so he's like,
Speaker 1: all right, like let's let's let's let's shoot some kind
Speaker 1: of deep midrange shots, you know, like foters shoot a hundred.
Speaker 1: He makes ninety two, right, and like, I don't think
Speaker 1: people understand how fucking good these guys are, Like they're
Speaker 1: they're ridiculous. Like he's like, dude, you should see Rondo
Speaker 1: when every shooting drill, like it's it's crazy. Okay, so
Speaker 1: now you throw in Steph Curry and Kevin Durant, two
Speaker 1: guys that you work out, two guys that you help
Speaker 1: hone their craft. What is a Steph Curry workout? Like? Like,
Speaker 1: does he ever miss a shot? Oh? It's it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I mean I've seen him make you know, leads in
Speaker 1: a row and you know how hard that is. I
Speaker 1: don't care, no one's going you and not and and
Speaker 1: it's it's just so easy. The one thing about step
Speaker 1: Katie is the same way if we shoot a hundred
Speaker 1: straight threes, if they make a hundred or miss a hundred,
Speaker 1: it's the same reaction. They just move on to the
Speaker 1: next shot. And that's why they good. They don't get
Speaker 1: down to themselves. They don't you know, put their head
Speaker 1: down like some guys and and grow up and moan
Speaker 1: um that they just so lazy a focus. I mean
Speaker 1: step just looks at the rim grounds the ball looks
Speaker 1: at the rim so I passed in the balls really
Speaker 1: looking at me just boom boom. It's it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's world class and it's just complete to me. Just
Speaker 1: focus when they when they do that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's step has uh ridiculous range. Man, I've seen them.
Speaker 1: You know, we'll we'll work on you know, the normal
Speaker 1: NBA threes, but they will with Katie too, They will
Speaker 1: work on you know as they do. And they three
Speaker 1: at the four point shot, you know from out there,
Speaker 1: so um and and they make them and they and
Speaker 1: then they shoot him in the game, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I know, I know what you know Miles
Speaker 1: went through because I do the same thing with Kevin
Speaker 1: Love when he went to Cleveland. You know, he had
Speaker 1: to become you know what they call, I guess a spacer,
Speaker 1: you know. And Kevin went from pins post, midpost, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe trail threes too, sitting the Christian in the core,
Speaker 1: waits for the past, you know. So those good two
Speaker 1: guys definitely sacrificed win championships, and um, you know, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of guys gonna you know, I really
Speaker 1: want how to shoot. You're you're one of the guys.
Speaker 1: You're you're the guy credited with teaching Lebron how to
Speaker 1: push back past the fatigue barrier, like one of the
Speaker 1: one of the Like we on TV and radio, we
Speaker 1: talked about dumb ships sometimes, you know, um, whereas I
Speaker 1: think like real basketball talk is you're talking about the
Speaker 1: the the unbelievable confidence of Durant and Steph Curry, And honestly,
Speaker 1: sometimes Lebron has lacked that kind of stuffing like confidence
Speaker 1: and conditioning and the ability to push through fatigue. How
Speaker 1: did you You're like, Lebron credits you with pushing him
Speaker 1: through the fatigue barrier? How how do you do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I'll never forget if we we were down in
Speaker 1: um Miami working out with me, him and John Wall
Speaker 1: and um. And it's just I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is about me. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's my dad. My dad was a kind of colonel.
Speaker 1: And and I since the day one, between these guys
Speaker 1: just like grown men, the NBA players or m v ps,
Speaker 1: and I hold them accountable. Um, if a guy shows
Speaker 1: up at nine o two, I get pissed. And I
Speaker 1: think there's other trainers out there, are guys that you know,
Speaker 1: it's okay, man, you know, don't don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: because in any other industry, you know, it's you're late
Speaker 1: for working, You're fight all the time, you know, or
Speaker 1: I always tell him you're late for the plane. In
Speaker 1: the NBA, it's five grants, So give me five grants
Speaker 1: or you know, don't be late. So you know with
Speaker 1: with me again, I don't treat them like I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people treat them. And honestly, they like that.
Speaker 1: You know. They want someone in their life, especially that's
Speaker 1: trying to help their craft, to be honest with them,
Speaker 1: you know, not say it's okay. You know if they
Speaker 1: don't work hard that day, so it's okay, man, you know,
Speaker 1: it was the coach's fault. You're a bad game as
Speaker 1: a coach's fault. I'm the opposite, you know, And I'm
Speaker 1: honest with them, and I pushed them to the limit.
Speaker 1: And my last drills always are the hardest drills. And
Speaker 1: I always do that for a reason. I always say,
Speaker 1: you know, you should end the workout, but then you finished,
Speaker 1: just like you should be better in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: Then you have the first quarter. So I test guys.
Speaker 1: I test guys at the end of the work the
Speaker 1: last five minutes the hardest drills I'll do all day, um,
Speaker 1: And I do that to prepare them. With too many
Speaker 1: stuff in the game, you know you're gonna be able
Speaker 1: to make that shot when you're tired. You can handle
Speaker 1: the ball, you know, when guys going your full court
Speaker 1: when you're tired down one. Um, so it's it's strategic,
Speaker 1: but it's also you know, again just just holding them accountable.
Speaker 1: And you know, I said give me one hour, so
Speaker 1: I want one hour a day, that's all. It's it's
Speaker 1: not nine is five. And I love the guys that said,
Speaker 1: you know, I've been in the gymmate hours work correct. Correct.
Speaker 1: This is one of the things that I think is
Speaker 1: is amazing to me. It's it's either a lie or
Speaker 1: you're not getting stuff done. Like I exactly right with
Speaker 1: younger kids, I tell him, you know, like minutes is plenty, plenty,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're going hard right, like otherwise you're
Speaker 1: just kind of like I get parents where I run
Speaker 1: workouts and like, well we only went they only went
Speaker 1: an hour today, Like they went hard, They're good, they're done.
Speaker 1: Like do you want me to have them do three
Speaker 1: man weave? If you want to have them to do
Speaker 1: three man we've you know, sure, cool, but that that's
Speaker 1: a complete waste of my time and yours as well. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Katie, well, Katie will go forty minutes with me
Speaker 1: and this back in the day and no water break
Speaker 1: and be done for minutes. Rob's the next show once
Speaker 1: the water in Mexoscope. I'm not sitting there talking for
Speaker 1: ten minutes in between drills. Done, Go and enjoy the summer.
Speaker 1: Like that's it. You know, give me a guy who
Speaker 1: is going to have a great you spend time with
Speaker 1: him and you feel like he's gonna take a step
Speaker 1: this year. I would say one guy for sure, Alfred Payton. Um.
Speaker 1: I worked to Alfred the last two years, but this
Speaker 1: is the first really full, full summer that we had together.
Speaker 1: And you know he signed with the Knicks obviously. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's comfortable up there. Scott Perry drafted him in Orlando. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a team with a lot of guys with chips
Speaker 1: in their shoulders. Alford has been known to be an
Speaker 1: average shooter, but we worked out a shot on this summer.
Speaker 1: I mean six days a week in l a UM.
Speaker 1: And he's grown, you know, he's matured. He's more of
Speaker 1: a leader. UM, and he's confident now. He's very you
Speaker 1: know when I first spent him quiet, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: not too sure of was shot. If you opened the seventeen,
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen foot line, he wouldn't shoot it. But
Speaker 1: now one of those things too. You know it's gonna
Speaker 1: go in there a little swag, look confident and and
Speaker 1: you know they wanted to shoot this year. So he's
Speaker 1: definitely got I think I take a big, big step forward.
Speaker 1: The book is Network. It's uh, it's awesome. You should
Speaker 1: pick it up. He's Rob Rob McClanahan. Of course, who's
Speaker 1: a star workout? I mean, would you do? Do you
Speaker 1: want guru trainer of the stars? How do you when
Speaker 1: you when you get introduced when when having beers like
Speaker 1: is my buddy Rob, he's the trainer of the stars?
Speaker 1: Is I Is I that what you want? Uh? The
Speaker 1: trader is fine? Yeah, trainers, Yeah, it's funny with my
Speaker 1: guys that you know having beers there. This is a
Speaker 1: guy's the guy told you about it, trains this and that,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I don't even want to get into it, somebody,
Speaker 1: if people ask you, no, I'm just I'm I'm a teacher.
Speaker 1: So I do marketing because I don't. I don't want
Speaker 1: to get into it. Some people I don't know. You know, Network,
Speaker 1: Training the NBA's best and finding the keys to greatness? Rob,
Speaker 1: great stuff man, Thanks so much for joining me. Thanks
Speaker 1: appreciate the man. Be sure to catch the live edition
Speaker 1: of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m.
Speaker 1: Easter noon Pacific. Hey, that's it for all ball U.
Speaker 1: You can keep the tweets, the liked ones, the hater
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