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Speaker 1: And welcome to a very special joint episode of two

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Speaker 1: shows that you hopefully love, one the House of Pod.

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Speaker 1: I'm Cave. I'm the host of that show and it

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Speaker 1: could happen here with my good friend James Stout. James, Hi, Hi, Kvey.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited about this. This is a rare privilege. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited too. We'll get straight to it. Just

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Speaker 1: a quick reminder if you're not following one of these

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Speaker 1: shows and you're following the other, yeah, all of both.

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Speaker 1: Why not and leave a nice review if you like

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Speaker 1: the shows either way. But we're really excited, so let's

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Speaker 1: get straight to the episode. How's that sound yep?

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Speaker 2: Must get.

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Speaker 1: And welcome back.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: I know. Every week I say this is a special episode,

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Speaker 1: and I'm usually lying ninety nine percent of the time

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Speaker 1: is not special. But this week is very special. It's

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Speaker 1: special because I've never done this before. I'm very excited.

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Speaker 1: It's a topic I really have wanted to cover for

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Speaker 1: a while. But I'm going to be covering the topic

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Speaker 1: with a good friend of mine who has an excellent show,

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Speaker 1: and we're doing a joint show release thing and I've

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Speaker 1: never done it. It's like a marvel team up, and

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited for it. James stout. James, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: introduce your first journalist podcaster host of It could Happen Here, which,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening to this on it could happen here,

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Speaker 1: you already knew that. James. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Hi, thank you. Yeah, And I don't watch many Sweeper

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Speaker 2: hero movies, so I'm now concerned as to which Marvel

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Speaker 2: hero villain I would be.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was thinking more of the comics. But if

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Speaker 1: I have, if I have the pin you to a character,

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Speaker 1: it's Moonnight. I think that's clear.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's gone straight past me, buddy, but I'm sure

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Speaker 2: I hope that.

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Speaker 1: Take my word for it. It's cool. James. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about what we're covering today.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's talk to our people about what then we'll

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Speaker 1: introduce our guests. But let's tell people of what we're

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Speaker 1: trying to cover today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. So we're talking about like healthcare and

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Speaker 2: an indigenous context and how we can both learn from

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Speaker 2: and stand in solidarity within Indigenous communities when it comes

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Speaker 2: to healthcare.

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Speaker 1: I guess excellent. And to help us with that, we

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Speaker 1: have two guests. We have a medical student at a

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Speaker 1: little school called Harvard I think it's a liberal arts

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Speaker 1: school out in the east somewhere, named Victor Lopez Carmen.

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Speaker 1: He was the prior elective co chair of the United

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Speaker 1: Nations Global Indigenous Youth Caucus. He is a member of

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Speaker 1: the Crow Creek Sooux tribe and also from the Yockey tribe.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct, Victor?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay, excellent, welcome to the shows.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'm honestly props to pronouncing all

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Speaker 3: that right.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, your stuff. I'm going to get right.

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Speaker 1: Our next guest, whose name is Molly, I'm gonna probably

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Speaker 1: destroy her name because that those are the names I

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Speaker 1: have a hard time with. Doctor Molly Hollweaver. Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Correct?

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Speaker 1: E r? Doctor at UC Davis, one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: hospitals in the world. Is that also correct?

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Speaker 4: That is correct? I work at you see Davis.

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Speaker 2: So I guess maybe we should start, like if we

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Speaker 2: want to start out by explaining maybe how healthcare like,

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Speaker 2: what things that when we look at healthcare and indigenous context,

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Speaker 2: what things we're looking at the differentiate it from healthcare

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Speaker 2: in other context?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: What will be the areas that both of you guys

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Speaker 2: think that folks who aren't familiar with this because sadly,

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of the United States they either

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Speaker 2: don't think they know Indigenous people or maybe they really

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Speaker 2: don't like and we can explain that lots of Indigenous people,

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Speaker 2: most Indigenous people live off res too. I think that

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Speaker 2: would be very valuable. But what sort of topics will

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Speaker 2: be be looking at when we're looking at healthcare from

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Speaker 2: an indigenous perspective.

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Speaker 3: I think like when you look at indigenous peoples in

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Speaker 3: the US, you think of our traditional health system as well,

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Speaker 3: like that was what we always had, that was what

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Speaker 3: we've had for thousands of years, and the efforts to

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Speaker 3: maintain the traditional health, traditional healing practices. And then you

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Speaker 3: look at the Western health system, the different systems we

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Speaker 3: have access to today, including the Indian Health Service, which

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Speaker 3: is unique to US, tribal clinics, tribal operated clinics, and

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Speaker 3: hospitals everyday hospitals that anyone else uses, because, like you said,

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Speaker 3: the majority of Native Americans today in the US live

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Speaker 3: in cities or urban contexts.

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Speaker 1: Mollie, let me ask you, because people may be wondering,

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Speaker 1: how did you become involved with delivery of healthcare to

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Speaker 1: the Native American population.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Thanks, I am, it's great to be here. Thanks

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Speaker 4: for having us.

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Speaker 5: I'm excited to chat with you all.

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Speaker 4: I kind of had a unique opportunity.

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Speaker 5: I've always been interested in Indian health service as a

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Speaker 5: healthcare delivery system and Indigenous peoples. And when I started fellowship,

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Speaker 5: I did a Global Health Fellowship and I started in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty, so it was, you know, not a great

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Speaker 5: year to be a Global Health Fellow for many reasons,

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Speaker 5: and so I had very you know, obviously, we were

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Speaker 5: on lockdown and work was hard and stressful as an YEARDOC,

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Speaker 5: and so we were trying to be creative and you know,

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Speaker 5: how we can do this global health fellowship.

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Speaker 4: And so I got in touch.

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Speaker 5: With a awesome physician, Don Maggio, who is the edy

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Speaker 5: director at White River, which is Apacha Nation in Arizona.

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Speaker 4: It's like three hours east of Phoenix.

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Speaker 5: So he went to high He was a Highland Alum,

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Speaker 5: a Highland DM alum which is in Oakland and now

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Speaker 5: works full time at White River. Anyways, got connected with

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Speaker 5: him and everything that was going on during the pandemic

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Speaker 5: because as I'm sure you guys are all aware and

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Speaker 5: probably a lot of our listeners that the Navajo and

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Speaker 5: Apache tribes we had much higher rates of COVID and

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Speaker 5: of severe COVID, and so I went as first for

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Speaker 5: kind of public health outreach. So I went and did

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Speaker 5: some contact tracing and helped do They did a really

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Speaker 5: cool program of outreach in the community to go and.

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Speaker 4: Check on the locals and we would go and.

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Speaker 5: Check pull socks so we'd see how high their oxygen

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Speaker 5: saturation was and see how people were doing to try

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Speaker 5: to catch disease early.

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Speaker 4: So that's how I kind of got.

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Speaker 5: Into doing it, and then I loved it there and

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Speaker 5: wanted to keep working, and so I continued to moonlight,

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Speaker 5: which means I worked kind of as a locums. I

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Speaker 5: don't know if I need to explain that for medical

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Speaker 5: Dragon Cave, but I worked, you know, every one to

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Speaker 5: two months, I would fly to Arizona and work on

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Speaker 5: the res for a week.

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Speaker 1: Very cool. So Victor getting back a little bit to

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Speaker 1: where Native Americans are getting their healthcare? What is what

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Speaker 1: is your interest? Once you're done and when you graduate

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Speaker 1: from where are you? You are? Are you right now?

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Speaker 6: I'm a fourth year, so my last year, Oh.

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Speaker 1: My god, for you buddy, how are you liking it?

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Speaker 3: I'm liking it less. No, I'm not like like I

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Speaker 3: like medicine. I still maintain medical school. Like I'm ready

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Speaker 3: to be done with school.

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Speaker 1: You got senioritis? Is that what you mean?

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Speaker 6: Pretty much? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: You're a rising fourth here or have you already matched? Uh?

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Speaker 3: No, I'm a I'm a rising fourth here. I'm applying

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Speaker 3: your residency now, so.

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Speaker 1: So so talk to us about where what you would

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Speaker 1: like to where you like to go and what kind

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Speaker 1: of medicine you'd like to practice.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, anywhere that will take me.

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Speaker 6: Doctor. But yeah, I really I want to go into pediatrics.

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Speaker 3: I always wanted to help and take care of Native

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Speaker 3: kids and back in the community for sure. I want

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Speaker 3: to go back and be a community member again. I've

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Speaker 3: been gone for so long. I feel like I've been

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Speaker 3: only only able to go back for like you know,

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Speaker 3: breaks and things like that, and it's it's it hasn't

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Speaker 3: been enough for me as an Indigenous person.

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Speaker 6: So I'm ready to go back.

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Speaker 3: Be a doctor, be part of the community, be there

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Speaker 3: for ceremonies, be there to be patients.

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Speaker 6: That's my ideal.

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Speaker 2: I think one thing that's really interesting, especially and like

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Speaker 2: we have this chance to talk to you, which we

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Speaker 2: which we often don't have. Is you mentioned like balancing

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Speaker 2: western medical technology with indigenous medical technologies, right, And I'm

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Speaker 2: really interested in hearing how you would approach that for

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Speaker 2: folks who aren't familiar or for folks who don't have

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Speaker 2: the knowledge of indigenous medical technologies that you might odd

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Speaker 2: be you maybe have people who you go to for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Well, I think it's important to just already

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Speaker 3: start the conversation that so much indigenous medical technology has

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Speaker 3: already been appropriated by western medicine as western medicine, aspirin,

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Speaker 3: for instance, many traditional healing practices that were and are

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Speaker 3: still find themselves seeping into the field of psychiatry or

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Speaker 3: around parenting mental health the way that, for instance, that

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Speaker 3: Indigenous peoples. I think there's a growing understanding in the

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Speaker 3: medical field about planetary health and the impacts of climate

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Speaker 3: change on health, and a lot of that has already

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Speaker 3: been said and fought for by Indigenous peoples for a

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Speaker 3: very long time, and so there's already a lot of

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Speaker 3: stuff there that we're working with. And I think it's

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Speaker 3: important to give Indigenous peoples their flowers. But yeah, that

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Speaker 3: I think when it comes to integrating on the clinical level,

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Speaker 3: it's going to differ from community to community. You might know,

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Speaker 3: but in the possible Yaki tribe, the health division employs

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Speaker 3: a team of traditional healers that come up I think

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Speaker 3: monthly from Sonora, Mexico, from the villages and Yaccu. Patients

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Speaker 3: can elect to see the traditional healers with or without

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Speaker 3: a Western trained physician, and there's a whole room where

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Speaker 3: they have all these herbs and plants that Yaki people

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Speaker 3: have been using for thousands of years, and I think

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Speaker 3: that's very beautiful. One reason we've been able to do

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Speaker 3: that is because our tribe elected to run their own

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Speaker 3: health division rather than having the Indian Health Service run

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Speaker 3: it for them. We had the capability to do that

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Speaker 3: at the time. Not all tribes do have the capability,

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Speaker 3: yet we had it, and I think it's been beneficial

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Speaker 3: for us because it's given us more freedom to bridge

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Speaker 3: Western a traditional medicine in a way that works for us.

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Speaker 2: The Yacky system is a really great one, like and

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Speaker 2: like people. Probably that people won't be familiar with it.

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Speaker 2: I guessing most people listening won't be familiar with it,

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Speaker 2: but it's allowed the tribes to all kinds of cool things,

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Speaker 2: like in I've been involved in a diabetes prevention cycling

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Speaker 2: program there for ten years, something like a long long time.

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Speaker 2: But there are things that can be done because of

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Speaker 2: that block grant or running their own system as opposed

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Speaker 2: to having IOHS run the system. Could you like, because Marley,

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Speaker 2: I think you're more familiar with like an IHS clinic model, right,

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Speaker 2: would one of you want to explain the difference between

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Speaker 2: the two of those for people who aren't familiar.

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Speaker 4: IHS versus the tribe.

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Speaker 2: The Pascuayaki tribe run their own system. I think they

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Speaker 2: get a block grant, correct me if I'm wrong, Victor,

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Speaker 2: they get a block grant for MYHSS, and then they

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Speaker 2: spend that as they see fit.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I can speak to the IOHS side, but for

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Speaker 5: me this in Victory. You can correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 5: But for me it was easy to It's kind of

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Speaker 5: similar to the VA for just for medical doctors to

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Speaker 5: understand in that it's a set of money that the

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Speaker 5: government sets aside for a certain population and the veterans for.

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Speaker 4: The VA and IHS for.

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Speaker 5: Natives, and but there's obviously disparity between even those two,

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Speaker 5: Like per captive spending is way higher in the VA

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Speaker 5: than it is on IHS, but it's a yeah, Western system,

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Speaker 5: and all of the staff on the hospital, like the

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Speaker 5: reservation hospital or the Indian Hospital, are all employees of IHS,

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Speaker 5: so they're actually kind of like federal employees. And we

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Speaker 5: can kind of get into the weeds of it later,

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Speaker 5: but there's you know, a lot of turnover because it's

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Speaker 5: a sometimes it's hard places to live and so and

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Speaker 5: they're young. They kind of recruit young doctors, and there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of turnover for the for the primary care doctors.

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Speaker 5: And then in the er where I work, there very

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Speaker 5: few forward certified YAR doctors, so it's staffed by non

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Speaker 5: em certified docs.

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Speaker 3: That sounds right to me. The only other thing I

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Speaker 3: would add is that the Indian Health Service it's predicated

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Speaker 3: on what's called the federal trust responsibility that's built over

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Speaker 3: decades of Supreme Court precedent smaller court precedents over the

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Speaker 3: years that I think a lot of them were based

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Speaker 3: in treaties made with Indigenous peoples. And basically this means

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Speaker 3: that the government, because of the harm, the oppression, the

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Speaker 3: colonization that has been dealt upon Indigenous peoples across the

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Speaker 3: United States. There's a trust responsibility for the federal government

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Speaker 3: to sort of to do something about the lingering impacts.

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Speaker 3: They have a responsibility to provide health services to indigenous

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Speaker 3: peoples in the US. That was also in many of

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Speaker 3: the treaties that were made with indigenous nations. And I

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Speaker 3: think it does go over people's heads sometimes that this

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Speaker 3: is not a favor, this is not a gift. It's

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Speaker 3: a responsibility based on centuries of oppression, and that that

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Speaker 3: responsibility is not fully being met right now because the

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Speaker 3: Indian Health Service is severely underfunded. The way that the

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Speaker 3: funds are appropriated is unique to government health care programs.

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Speaker 3: The way the veterans, for instance, Veterans Affairs is appropriated

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Speaker 3: is much more effective than the way Indian Health.

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Speaker 6: Service is appropriated at the federal level.

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Speaker 2: It might be worth explaining here just briefly, that not

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Speaker 2: all tribes are federally recognized, right, and not all Indigenous

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Speaker 2: people are part of federally recognized tribes, And how would

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Speaker 2: that impact their access to healthcare?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, federal recognition isn't perfect. It's a

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Speaker 3: really arduous process, and not all tribes are federally recognized.

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Speaker 3: For those tribes who aren't, they don't have access to

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Speaker 3: those services like the Indian Health Service or the Bureau

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Speaker 3: of Indian Education, for instance, and many other federal grants

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Speaker 3: that Indigenous peoples and Indigenous nations can apply for or

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Speaker 3: just automatically get. For instance, during COVID nineteen there were

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Speaker 3: specific funding allocated for tribal nations. Those tribal nations who

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Speaker 3: are not federally recognized, they wouldn't have bad access to them.

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Speaker 1: Let me shift here is a little bit here and

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Speaker 1: get to a question that is I think going to

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Speaker 1: be very difficult to answer, and it's one of those

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Speaker 1: impossible questions because there's so many parts to it, I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: and it varies so much. But I like to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the major health issues that you

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Speaker 1: guys feel are facing Native Americans right now and whether

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Speaker 1: or not if they are at all different from the

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Speaker 1: rest of the US population, And then we could talk

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Speaker 1: about what barriers there are to care in that regards.

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Speaker 1: But we'll start with you, Molly. Can you tell us

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Speaker 1: from your experience working there, what are the major health

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Speaker 1: issues that you feel may or may not be the

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Speaker 1: same as the general population.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think at the end of the day is

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Speaker 4: it's very similar.

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Speaker 5: You're seeing the same disease processes that you're seeing in

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Speaker 5: the general population, but you're seeing everything's a little bit

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Speaker 5: more severe. I would say, like there's more there's higher

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Speaker 5: rates of the chronic disorders like diabetes and hypertension, and

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Speaker 5: it's kind of more severe long term effects of the

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Speaker 5: diabetes and hypertension, and at younger ages.

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Speaker 4: I think that was kind of what was most striking

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Speaker 4: to me.

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Speaker 5: You're seeing the long term, the bad effects, the long

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Speaker 5: term bad effects.

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Speaker 4: At younger ages. You're seeing all.

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Speaker 5: Use disorder is a problem everywhere in the United States,

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Speaker 5: but on tribes alcoholics disorder is much higher.

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Speaker 4: And again, like I I was, it was shocked.

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Speaker 5: It was honestly shocking to see thirty year olds who

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Speaker 5: had n stage liver disease from alcohol use disorder. And

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Speaker 5: I saw on some of the sickest people I've seen

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Speaker 5: have been from my from my time there. So everything

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Speaker 5: just is you know, a little bit harder. And the

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Speaker 5: reasons for that, as we can talk about, are like

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Speaker 5: totally multifactorial, but in line with poverty, funding is a

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Speaker 5: huge like funding and poverty go hand in hand education,

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Speaker 5: and just the fact that yeah, they've been oppressed for centuries.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, I think it's at the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: it was the same. I was seeing the same things

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Speaker 5: that I would.

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Speaker 4: See at UC Davis, but I was seeing.

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Speaker 5: It on a more extreme basis.

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Speaker 6: I would say, Victor, Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think it's important to note to sort of say

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Speaker 3: that these problems exist all across the US, because there

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Speaker 3: can be stereotypes associated with health concerns like that are

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Speaker 3: attributed to the way that we live, or our culture,

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Speaker 3: or just inherent to who we are. Like there's this

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Speaker 3: prevailing I think notion that I don't know what came first,

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Speaker 3: but I think in the medical field, I still hear

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Speaker 3: about it. Like in class sometimes they'll say, like Native

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Speaker 3: Americans have the highest rates of diabetes or heart disease,

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Speaker 3: but they won't say why, and it makes people think that, oh,

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Speaker 3: like are they just not catching on?

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Speaker 6: Like are they just living badly?

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Speaker 3: And when you don't say why, it kind of I

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Speaker 3: think it it creates a lot of ignorance and a

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Speaker 3: lot of room for interpretation. So I think it's really

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Speaker 3: important to talk about those background reasons for instance, with diabetes,

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Speaker 3: I think a lot on a lot of reservations, there's

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Speaker 3: no access to one, traditional foods which have been you know,

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Speaker 3: through policy, eradicated through government policies over the decades and centuries,

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Speaker 3: and no access to healthy foods.

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Speaker 6: These are food deserts.

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Speaker 3: And at the same time, like doctor Hallweaver mentioned, there's poverty.

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Speaker 3: So if you're trying to get healthy food, you don't

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Speaker 3: have Number one, it's not in the reservation. You might

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Speaker 3: not even be able to afford it. If you can

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Speaker 3: get off the reservation. Not a lot of people have,

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Speaker 3: you know, not everyone has a car or the ability

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Speaker 3: to mobilize, you know, hour and a half to the

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Speaker 3: health food store. And so you know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: these That's just one example of like some of the

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Speaker 3: systemic reasons why somebody could get diabetes quite early. And

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Speaker 3: there's also a lot of lingering trauma and mental health

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Speaker 3: impacts that I think play into the high rates of alcoholism.

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Speaker 3: A lot of you know, in policy, there was there

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Speaker 3: were some early efforts to try to I think, to

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Speaker 3: try to limit alcohol on reservations that we still see today.

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Speaker 3: On some reservations, alcohol is entirely illegal on the reservation.

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Speaker 3: But you'll see you'll still see businesses right on the

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Speaker 3: border of the reservation just camp themselves there right on

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Speaker 3: the border, knowing that these that the population is vulnerable,

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Speaker 3: maybe not knowing.

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Speaker 6: That it's because of the historical trauma and things.

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Speaker 3: But but there's there's something there, you know, so there's

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Speaker 3: still an aspect of being targeted there by something that

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Speaker 3: that you know, the community is highly vulnerable to still

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Speaker 3: to this day.

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Speaker 1: It's a really interesting point that you bring up, because

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Speaker 1: I remember being in medical school and you know, you

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Speaker 1: sit in these lecture halls and some they would bring up,

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Speaker 1: like Native Americans being a high risk for all these

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Speaker 1: It would be like one of these little footnotes that

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Speaker 1: would be in a lot of our lectures and that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. They never explained why, I mean medical

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Speaker 1: school particularly then, was I wouldn't want to touch anything

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Speaker 1: that they might see as an even mildly political issue,

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Speaker 1: even though not discussing it made it one. Really, do

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Speaker 1: you must be annoyed by this? Does this happen to

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Speaker 1: you like you are you like sitting in your lecture

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Speaker 1: class and then like the teacher will mention something about

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Speaker 1: Native Americans. Then all like the white students in your

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Speaker 1: class just turned their heads and like look at you

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Speaker 1: to see your response.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're like what listen, I just like find

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Speaker 3: a wall and I stare at it, just just anticipating it,

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Speaker 3: just looking in deep thought until it passes.

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Speaker 1: Right, smart student, Molly, you're going to add something.

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Speaker 5: I was going to add to that victor that. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: just to highlight the food desert. Example, during COVID, right,

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Speaker 5: the White River Reservation had one grocery store and during

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Speaker 5: the lockdown it was only open, you know, from nine

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Speaker 5: am to three pm on Monday, Wednesday Friday, Like it

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Speaker 5: had really limited hours, and that was there one grocery

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Speaker 5: store for the entire reservation, and so it was just

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Speaker 5: even you know, during the pandemic, everything got a little

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Speaker 5: bit worse. But yeah, they're very limited access to healthy

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Speaker 5: foods for sure.

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Speaker 2: One thing that I was like recently educated about during

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Speaker 2: a discussion about diabetes prevention was epigenetics. And like, my

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Speaker 2: I'm a doctor of modern European history, so if I

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Speaker 2: go off the rails at any point, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: lie on one of you three to gently guide me back.

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Speaker 2: But I found that fascinating the concept of like intergenerational

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Speaker 2: trauma and epigenetics and how that can impact healthcare today.

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Speaker 2: Is that something either of you could explain to listeners who,

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Speaker 2: like me, a relatively ignorant on it.

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Speaker 1: And that's the I can take this one actually, because

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Speaker 1: actually it's interesting because I did an episode recently about

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Speaker 1: the intergenerational trauma of the Persian diaspora after the revolution

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Speaker 1: and how this most recent set of protests sort of

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Speaker 1: reignited this trauma. And excuse me, one of the guests

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Speaker 1: mentioned that there was a study in mice in which

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Speaker 1: they looked at sort of epigenetics of stress response, and

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Speaker 1: they had pregnant mice and they like, they would give

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Speaker 1: them the scent of rose blossom or something, and then

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Speaker 1: they would shock them, and then the mouse would grow

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Speaker 1: to be really fearful of those shocks that were associated

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Speaker 1: with the rose blossom. And then what they noticed was

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Speaker 1: that like, the children of the mice would also respond

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Speaker 1: poorly to like that same rose blossom scent, even though

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Speaker 1: they didn't have the exposure to it. And I looked

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Speaker 1: into it, I mean, because the truth of it is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can inherit specific phobias that just

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen, But I kind of pushed back on that

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Speaker 1: point a little bit, and I got a lot of

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Speaker 1: messages from molecular pathologists who are like, so, you can't

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Speaker 1: stress during pregnancy. It can be it can affect the DNA.

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Speaker 1: It can affect the DNA, and that can be passed

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Speaker 1: down changes in the DNA disruption of the DNA. You

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Speaker 1: can't inherit specific phobias or or fears or stresses per se,

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Speaker 1: but it can clearly cause genetic damage when you have

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Speaker 1: that much stress. And then on top of that, of

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Speaker 1: course we're talking about the psychological impact it has on

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Speaker 1: someone and then how they raise their children and how

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Speaker 1: their children grow up. So it is I agree, it's

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Speaker 1: a very interesting subject, but I don't want to get

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Speaker 1: any more molecular pathologists emails. Molly.

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Speaker 5: What I was going to say, I'm glad you took

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Speaker 5: this epigenetics quession from me.

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Speaker 1: You know one thing about your your going back to

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Speaker 1: what you were saying, victor about the situations that have

441
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: sort of predicated this. Correct me if I'm wrong. But

442
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: my understanding is most of the land that these Indian

443
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: reservations were on in the United States, like there's STrenD

444
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: twenty six. If I read that correctly. Is not on

445
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: great land. It's like land that's close to like mines

446
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: or places where there's some sort of radiation or there's

447
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: some sort of issues not great like for growing food

448
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: itself directly, there is that correct? Is that part of

449
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: this correct?

450
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 6: Yeah?

451
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it was. The intention was

452
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 3: to put indigenous peoples on land that wasn't as fertile,

453
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 3: and that's kind of goes back into what I was

454
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 3: talking about traditional foods and how it's difficult. But I think,

455
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know if this science was all

456
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: there at the time, and I think now a lot

457
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 3: of indigenous land, a lot of reservations actually they found

458
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 3: out that they're yeah, they're on like on top of

459
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 3: big mines and like things that the Western world funds

460
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 3: really valuable. And so there's a there's a shift almost

461
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: to almost you see it in like policies and lawsuits

462
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: today to start trying to grab more minerals from the

463
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: land that that that they had actually put us on,

464
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: which they didn't think was valuable. And now they're like, wait,

465
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: there's like copper under there.

466
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good example of that, right exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

467
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the podcaster and the rapper propaganda prop

468
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm James. You probably have met him, you know. He

469
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: he speaks about how initially they put the African Americans

470
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: in the waterfront. They said, here, you're gonna live in

471
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: these places by the by the the ocean where you

472
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: can't really grow things that well. And then after a

473
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: while they realized, oh no, that's really valuable property. And

474
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 1: then they started trying to find ways to get them

475
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: out of there. Seems to be our our national m O.

476
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: Can we get back to the IHS a little bit?

477
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: So you guys have mentioned Indian Health Services. It's come

478
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: up a couple of times. And James, I'd also want

479
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: to hear your because you've worked there as well. I'd

480
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: like to hear, like, what are some things that the

481
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: IHS is doing well? What are some things that need

482
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: work and how I just.

483
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: Want to say the IHS, I think they they they're

484
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: doing what they can't a lot of it.

485
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 6: They're doing what they well with what they have.

486
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 3: I would say, like a lot of the issues are

487
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 3: underfunding and we don't exactly know how well, Like we

488
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 3: don't really know the potential quite yet because they just

489
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: don't have enough funding, so I think, like I would

490
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,959
Speaker 3: just like to insert that caveat into the conversation first.

491
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I you know, I only have

492
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 5: experience on one reservation and there, you know, everyone.

493
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 4: Is different, for sure. I think someone might know more

494
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 4: than me.

495
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 5: But the Alaska Health System Indian Health System is still

496
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 5: far AHS, but it's like kind of its own thing,

497
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 5: and they are the kind of the gold standard or

498
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 5: they're they're kind of the they are doing the best

499
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 5: with what they have. And I don't know, maybe you

500
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 5: guys know, James or Victor that if they have more

501
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 5: funding is probably a big part of it. If they

502
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 5: just have more funding, But they are kind of touted

503
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 5: as the leader in IHS right now.

504
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: I know, but less about this in either view, I'm sure.

505
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: But I know I worked on an ih grant years

506
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: ago with someone who'd worked with Alaska Native people and

507
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: they were talking about this Promodores de Salul model, which

508
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys are familiar with that.

509
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: It came from Oakland actually, but like it's a p

510
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: mental model for health education that they had implemented there,

511
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: and we were trying to get money to implement that

512
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: in the Yaki Reservation didn't work shockingly.

513
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 4: But.

514
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: That model that they used of like using people from

515
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: the community to educate people from the community rather than like,

516
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: I guess you could call it like white men and

517
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: white coats, worked very well for them, and I think

518
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 2: it's it's a very desirable model to replicate. It's not

519
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: that expensive either, and we were doing it with diabetes prevention, right. So, Like,

520
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: chiefly my thing is riding bikes has been my whole life,

521
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: and so it is, yeah, just a big old bike

522
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: riding hippie, but like, riding bike is very good for you,

523
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: as it turns out, which is which is so the

524
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: thing that we've been doing with a lot of my

525
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: friends on the Yaki Reservation is getting folks helping them

526
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: out with a bike and helmet and lights and all

527
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: the things that you need, teasing them to fix the

528
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: bike right, and then having them go ahead and ride

529
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: the bike, and then like it, having them bring friends

530
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: and family members to come back and ride the bike

531
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: and have a goal event as part of that. And

532
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: that's worked very well for us too. So that model

533
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 2: that they implemented has been super successful within this very

534
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: small context of them getting Yaki folks to ride bikes.

535
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, just going off of that, I mean, that sounds awesome.

536
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: And I think one of the limitations of the IHS

537
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: is that it's this huge bureaucracy, so it's hard to

538
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 3: do stuff like that, Like for instance, at the Yaki tribe.

539
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: I'm sure you know, we're not the easiest tribe to

540
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: work with, but but.

541
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 6: We're probably easier than the IHS.

542
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, because.

543
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: And I think that that's a huge limitation, Like even

544
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: if you want to do a study on the IHS

545
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: has to be approved by like all of these government

546
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: officials and bureaucrats, and and I think that that makes

547
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: it really difficult. And especially because you know, and there's

548
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 3: so many branches of the government that the Indian Health

549
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: Service there's just one small, you know, piece of it,

550
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 3: and it's not necessarily one that's like heavily prioritized by

551
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: the government.

552
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 6: But there are improvements that are mad.

553
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 3: I think in this last appropriations bill, the Indian Health

554
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: Service got like funded a lot more than it had previously,

555
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 3: so hopefully we'll see some improvements. I think they're doing

556
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: really well when it comes to digital health, the integration

557
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: of electronic medical systems. I think that made a significant

558
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: impact when that was introduced. And then you know, I

559
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: think the Indian Health Service, like the model does well

560
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: in giving a lot of freedom to tribes to choose

561
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 3: do we want to continue with the Indian Health Service

562
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: or do we want to take our health system over

563
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: and run it ourselves but still use them same money

564
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: that would have been used anyways. I think that's what

565
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 3: a lot of the clinics in Alaska did in terms

566
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 3: of having like it's called six thirty eight clinic or

567
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 3: six thirty eight clinics or tribal health systems. It's really

568
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 3: cool what they did in Alaska because those are some

569
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 3: of the most remote, remote villages you know, in the

570
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: US and uh and I think that is something that

571
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: we should be paying more attention to, especially you know

572
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: when we're talking about you know, we talked about Alaska

573
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 3: that they're remote, but a lot of tribes in other

574
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: parts of the US are maybe not as remote, but

575
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: they're in very similar situations and that they're kind of disconnected,

576
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 3: like on food deserts.

577
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 6: And I think the same model can be used, but not.

578
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: Every tribe is at the place where they're capable yet

579
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 3: of taking over like the operations, the staff. There's a

580
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 3: lot of work that needs to be done, and every

581
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: tribe is kind of in a different place.

582
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: I'm interesting. I'm interested. I think you were mostly tongue

583
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: in cheek. But when you when you mentioned the yacky

584
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: tribe is not that easy to work with, what what

585
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: do you mean? Like, is it is? Is there a

586
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: lot of different opinions? Is that? Why is there? Is

587
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: it hard to why is it hard to manage? Or

588
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: why would that be difficult?

589
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 3: We're just very militant, and I think I think we

590
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: just you know, we're just do our own thing and.

591
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: Uh, very independent and.

592
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we're just kind of like I think, I

593
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 3: think we just have a very rebellious nature in us,

594
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 3: like sort of uh yeah, just really had strong and

595
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: like we don't work the same on the same timeline.

596
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 3: I think sometimes it's like, for instance, like like.

597
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 6: I'll tell you a story.

598
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 3: There was this uh, this shrimp farmer dude, our traditional

599
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: one of our traditional spiritual leaders political leaders. He passed

600
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: away in early two thousands. His name was on Selmo Valencia,

601
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: and uh they were bringing down there trying to introduce

602
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: shrimp farming in the traditional villages in so Noda Mexico.

603
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 3: So they brought this guy all the way down. He's

604
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: this businessman and uh, you know, he's running on time,

605
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 3: and uh they bombed down to the traditional authorities in

606
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: one of the publos and then all of a sudden,

607
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 3: right in the middle of the meeting, the snake. You

608
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 3: see this snake on the floor go by, and then

609
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: Alsoma Valencia. He's like stop, wait for a second, and

610
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 3: he grabs a snake and then he looks at it

611
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 3: and he says, we have to stop the meeting.

612
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 6: I have to go back to Tucson.

613
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: And this business guy is like, what the hell you know,

614
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 3: I just came from like Manhattan, and I flew all

615
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 3: the way. I'm in this village like and they stopped

616
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: the meeting, and this guy's like confused. I think he

617
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: got really angry and that never happened to him in

618
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 3: a business meeting before.

619
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 6: But there was a traditional.

620
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 3: Aspect that I think we just put that above everything else,

621
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 3: Like during even today, during time to ceremony, like, no

622
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 3: one's answering emails, no travel government official is going to

623
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: get back to you within that those like three four

624
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: weeks because they're doing spiritual practices and honoring that.

625
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I get from my perspective, everyone is lovely

626
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 2: and like it's nice to have a community where everyone

627
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: cares about each other and like wants everyone else to

628
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: be healthy, and like that's great. There are times when,

629
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: like recently we did a live show to raise money

630
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: to buy more bikes and someone from iHeart was trying

631
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: to get a W nine out of us, and I

632
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 2: was like, no, it's it's like Eastern weeks. It's not

633
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: it's not going to happen, like it's just id but

634
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: it's fine. You explain it. And like I always attribute,

635
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: like I'm not fully culturally fluent, right, Like I'm a

636
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: guy from England, Like it was different where I grew up,

637
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: so like things you can't tell yah stout is that

638
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: it's right up there with Valencia. But yeah, like I'm

639
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: obviously I don't have full cultural affluency, so it's on

640
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 2: me to kind of listen and then over time rather

641
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 2: than be frustrated and bulldoze shit, Well.

642
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: You're I mean, obviously you're You're very good at that

643
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: in my opinion what I've seen from you so far.

644
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: But I'm very curious actually from James and Molly, like

645
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: when you guys first started going to the reservation, what

646
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: surprised you, What was different than you had envisioned? What

647
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm assuming you got all your knowledge

648
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: of what reservations were like like from Hollywood, Like I

649
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: did you know what was fact what was fiction?

650
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was my first time like on a reservation,

651
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 5: and I think it was.

652
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 4: It.

653
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 5: It sort of felt like a little bit of a

654
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 5: different country, almost like you're in Arizona and you drive

655
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 5: three hours and you feel like you're in a really

656
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 5: different place.

657
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 4: It feels just a little bit different, and just it's

658
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 4: beautiful a.

659
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 5: The one I'm on was, or the one that I

660
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 5: went to is in White grig Or, Arizona.

661
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 4: It really is beautiful in the mountains along a river.

662
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 5: But it's you know, a lot of single story housing

663
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 5: that are all kind of government cookie cutter housing. And

664
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 5: I got to kind of go into the homes too

665
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 5: when we were doing house visits, So that felt I

666
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 5: felt very like privileged and it felt special to be

667
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 5: able to do that as a very foreign person, right,

668
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 5: I felt I felt like an outsider. And yeah, I

669
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 5: mean a lot there isn't They're not central heat for

670
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 5: these houses. Some of these houses. Lots of the floors

671
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 5: were dirt, like not actual flooring on the houses. So

672
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 5: that was I think surprising to me because it seems

673
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 5: like that is not something you think of when you

674
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 5: think of America. But that was that probably was like

675
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 5: the most surprising. But then like the street dogs running

676
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 5: around everywhere was kind of classic, I think.

677
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 4: But my first my first drive down, I like.

678
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 5: Had to stop because like a pack of dogs went by,

679
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 5: and that was kind of out of a out of

680
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 5: a movie.

681
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know, Like obviously I'm not American either. Yeah,

682
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: it's shocking. I actually am from Texas. It's the Harry

683
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: Potter films on repeat. Uh that's how I learned to

684
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: be a terf. No, I am not a turf. I

685
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: I don't think they need I don't think that, yeah,

686
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: there's people should go away. I so like I didn't

687
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: maybe receive a lot of that like sort of ingrained

688
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 2: kind of British for we fucking did settle colonialism everywhere.

689
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: I don't want to erase that for a second, but

690
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: I you know, so I just go to the restaurande

691
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: my bike through it. Pascal yaki Ros has nice rose

692
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: lovely bike lanes. And it's much smaller than like the

693
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: Tohn Autumn Rears, which is next door that's besides Connecticut.

694
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 2: For people who aren't familiar.

695
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 5: And.

696
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: I know, I'm from a part of England that's very

697
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 2: rural where people talk to each other. And that's the

698
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: thing that I don't like about living in a town

699
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 2: in California is that everyone just kind of lives in

700
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: a little box and kind of moves around and doesn't

701
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 2: talk to each other. And at least in my experience

702
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 2: on the reservation, everyone is friendly and nice. Most of the

703
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: people I run into with friendly and nice, and so

704
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: I really like that. First guy I ran into was

705
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: a traditional artist, David Moreno, who does he runs an

706
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: art program there. He's a very lovely guy, and uh,

707
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: we just were chatting, I think, and I was trying

708
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: to encourage. I think I was trying to encourage him

709
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: to come on a bike ride with me, and like,

710
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: you didn't have a bike, So then I was just

711
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: trying to encourage, Like I was like, maybe I could

712
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: get some bikes and come back, And I spoke to

713
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: some people and diabetes prevention and we got some bikes

714
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 2: and came back. But it's like Obviously people's houses aren't

715
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: super duper fancy, but they're fine. Like people have some

716
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: nice houses on the res Like, you know, I didn't

717
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 2: grow up in a super fancy house, and like the

718
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: houses that are not that distinct from those that I

719
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: see in San Diego. It's beautiful too. Like actually down

720
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: if you go on the Autumn Reservation further down. We

721
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: did a ride there in twenty nineteen, and we went

722
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: out the night before from the Yaki Reservation with the

723
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: group of us and we did like a big camp

724
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: out and then we did a ride the next day.

725
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: Their roads are not quite as nice as the Yaki roads.

726
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 2: We all got we ran out of innertubees because everyone

727
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: got so many punctures. Like it's yeah, it's beautiful landscape.

728
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: It's really gorgeous. I think the biggest shot to me

729
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: was the donkeys. The donkeys on the Autumn roads or

730
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: something else, like just just wild ass donkeys that like

731
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: at night, it sounds like they're a murder occurring. It

732
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: just makes these horrendous noises and like you puncture on

733
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 2: your bike and you go for a little bit of

734
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: shake because it's very hot, and suddenly you realize, like

735
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 2: ten budles, like just just chilling there too. So that

736
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: was the weirdest thing. But like, I know, people shouldn't

737
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: just walk onto reservations and start like trying to have

738
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 2: their cultural immersion experience or whatever. That's it's a bit cringe,

739
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: but yeah, like people equally shouldn't think that it's a

740
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: scary or different or dangerous, like Arizona feels foreign to me,

741
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: Like I go to Phoenix and that that is that

742
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: is a scary experience for other reasons, but like, no,

743
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: I've always felt very welcome and comfortable there.

744
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I can just add one more thing.

745
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 5: Oh sorry, just I think the other That's a great point, James,

746
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 5: But like the striking part for me too is that

747
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 5: I felt very Yeah, I felt very welcomed when I

748
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 5: was there, and they like have a very soft way

749
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 5: of speaking, and I'm like a loud, annoying American and

750
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 5: so like have obviously they're American as well, but I

751
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 5: have kind of a loud voice, and they're very soft

752
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 5: spoken and so gentle and so just like appreciative and

753
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 5: I kind of for me, I was like, wow, this is.

754
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 4: Like amazing that you have resiliency to feel appreciative when.

755
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 5: Like, I don't feel like you should, you know, feel

756
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 5: grateful or appreciative to me.

757
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 4: I thought that was like my most ranking, but.

758
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: I felt Molly's so nice. She's like trying to apologize

759
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: for being Listen, you're talking to two podcasters like obnoxiouses

760
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: are nature. It's like part of our DNA. You don't

761
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: need to explain yourself there, Victor, You've already touched on

762
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: this a little bit. But do you find yourself still

763
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: still dispelling myths and stereotypes about Native Americans even at

764
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: medical school?

765
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all the time, and you know, we talked

766
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 3: about the medical misconceptions and and and those things. But

767
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: I think there it's it's like, like I said, I

768
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 3: feel like the American educational system, it left so much

769
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 3: room for interpretation and what it did give was and

770
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: a lot of it wasn't true. But I think what

771
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 3: I'm really battling is that people just the level of

772
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 3: exposure they have is so minimal that they're coming into

773
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: these conversations and dicussions with pretty much almost nothing. And

774
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: so the average American knows very very little about Native Americans.

775
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 3: And when I say that, I don't mean Native American

776
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: culture because I don't think anyone, any Native American, really

777
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 3: cares if they know our culture or not. In fact,

778
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: they might even protect it. But we're talking about what

779
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 3: is the experience of Native Americans in this country, what happened,

780
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 3: what were the policies, what are the issues that are

781
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: still going on today. You know, there's the level of education.

782
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 6: It's just not.

783
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 3: To the point where I find we can even have

784
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 3: these discussions, discussions that we need to have. So I

785
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 3: think the most taxing thing on me is that whenever

786
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 3: I talk about Indigenous experiences or anything related to Indigenous health,

787
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: I have to give so much background that every time

788
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 3: I have to educate someone on you know, what is colonization,

789
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 3: what happened, and the very basics of of I think

790
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 3: that should be basic in this country, all these basics,

791
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: and by that time, you know, I think people have

792
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 3: gotten so much information that maybe they didn't know before.

793
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 6: They get overwhelmed.

794
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: And these things can also be very touchy subjects, I

795
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: think because we haven't been bold enough in the US

796
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 3: to actually just talk about them. And I think people,

797
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 3: you know, might be a little afraid to acknowledge these things,

798
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: and somewhere inside and I think what would have helped

799
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: with that is if they were exposed to it in

800
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 3: you know, starting in elementary school history, starting.

801
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 6: In middle school, high school, all of.

802
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 3: These things I think will make well, we need to

803
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 3: start doing that in the educational system if we're really

804
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: going to make progress.

805
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, as like someone who teaches history, oh it has

806
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 2: taught history. I think that's very true, and sadly it's

807
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: only getting worse, like places like Florida, right and making

808
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: it harder and harder to talk about that. But I

809
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: think when people come certainly so like I teach a

810
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 2: community college course, an American history course, and I think

811
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: when people come to that course, I mean California, like

812
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 2: many of them, for instance, could not name the tribe

813
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: who's the cancestral and current homelands they are sitting in

814
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 2: and learning. And then obviously to understand those experiences, you

815
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: have to have a name for them, right, And if

816
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: you don't have a name for the people, then you're

817
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: a long way from understanding, I guess. But it's something

818
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 2: that's still desperately lacking in the American education system, and

819
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like people are pushing hard enough to

820
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 2: get that rectified, Like it's Yeah, it's a very big

821
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: gap even in places, you know, like you could be

822
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: at school in Arizona, like you could be an hour

823
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 2: from some of the biggest reservations in the United States,

824
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 2: right the Autumn and the Navajo, and maybe not an hour.

825
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: Everything's a long way away in Arizona. But and and

826
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: not understand anything about those people's lived experience if you're

827
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: in Scottsdale.

828
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: In the Bay Area. I've grown up in the San

829
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: Francisco Bay Area and I didn't I knew very little

830
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: about the native people that were here until my one

831
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: of my oldest son had to do a project here

832
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: in San Francisco on the Miwalk tribe. And then only

833
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: then did I learn. I'm like, oh my god, they

834
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: were everywhere here. You know, there's so much the lonely tribe.

835
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: So even here, you know, which is a relatively progressive,

836
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: not florid and system, you know, did I not learn

837
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: a lot about that? But I also, Victor, I also

838
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: hear you, like, I know, it must be exhausting, and

839
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: we appreciate you coming on to talk to us about it.

840
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: James and I have talked about this before. It's it's

841
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: something that I at least grapple with sometimes, like in

842
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: terms of like bringing on guests, you know, like I

843
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: want people to talk about these things that are difficult

844
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: and sometimes maybe even a little traumatic to like talk about.

845
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: But there's this balance of like, well, I want the

846
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: people who've experienced it and know the most about it

847
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: to speak about it, but also to want to keep

848
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: re exposing people to like the same exhausting trauma every time,

849
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: you know, it becomes a tough thing for me at

850
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: least to figure out in balance, you know.

851
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, Yeah, I think you know, these podcasts are

852
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 3: a great way to do that, to have these discussions

853
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 3: because it actually I think it takes away from the

854
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 3: taxation because it hits a lot of people at once,

855
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 3: you know, and.

856
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: Listeners in the tens. We have listeners in the.

857
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's better.

858
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do a QR code so you can just

859
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: be like, hey, hey, check this out.

860
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: So so be from Sorry, I have one last question

861
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: for you. You know, you mentioned that you want to

862
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: go back and practice on the reservation. I'll be a

863
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: part of the community again. Do you plan on bringing

864
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: in traditional healing components to your practice, and if so,

865
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: are you gonna do specialty training is there like a

866
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: version of a fellowship that you will do for that.

867
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really want to do traditional practices. I'm not

868
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 3: a traditional healer myself, but I want to partner with them.

869
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 3: I feel like I have the connections to traditional people

870
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 3: to do stuff like that.

871
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 6: One of the things like I really want to do.

872
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 3: Is try to do a lot of public health initiatives

873
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: out of my practice, Like, for instance, I want to

874
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 3: try to find ways to help people grow their own food,

875
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 3: start their own gardens, do community gardens. I really want

876
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 3: to get our traditional foods up and running again. And

877
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people are already working on this, you know,

878
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 3: which is amazing.

879
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 6: I just want to be.

880
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 3: Of service to that effort, and I think I think

881
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 3: that is one of the most important things right now.

882
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: I also really want to do like public health initiatives

883
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 3: around language revitalization. I think language is so important when

884
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 3: it comes to the mental health of Indigenous youth enous.

885
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 3: I believe that Indigenous youth who know how to speak

886
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 3: their language are more mentally strong during the continuing tides

887
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 3: of colonization that they face in this Western world if

888
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 3: they have their language. I think that that's huge in

889
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 3: terms of resilience as culture as well. I think, you know,

890
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 3: finding ways to to sort of support culture as medicine,

891
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:05,479
Speaker 3: culture as prevention, participating in ceremonies as you know, making

892
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 3: it you know, very apparent that to to your audience

893
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 3: and to the world that that that is protective of

894
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: Indigenous health, indigenous mental health, and so that you know,

895
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 3: there's all these facets of traditional traditional ways of life

896
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 3: that we're all very healthy to us. And I think

897
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 3: a huge part of the battle is that we're still

898
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 3: having right now because the colonization is revitalizing those things,

899
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: and then those things, you know, the more that they're revitalized,

900
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 3: the more that we decolonize, the healthier we're going to be.

901
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 3: But at the same time, recognizing that Western medicine can

902
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 3: also be very effective too, if it's just properly funded

903
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 3: and if the service is effective. And so that's the

904
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 3: other the other side of the coin that I want

905
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 3: to be working on as well.

906
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: Oh, excellent, man.

907
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, one thing I wanted to touch on before we

908
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 2: finish is because it seems relatively current and new ze

909
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 2: right is and I think Victor my next one point

910
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 2: that like colonization isn't a thing that stopped. It's a

911
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: thing that we keep doing like we not we including Victor,

912
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 2: but you know, like weird people like me, like the

913
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 2: Indian Child Welfare Act. Right, Iqua is a thing that

914
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: the Zupreme Court is is like set up to take

915
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: a swing at. And I know that that is an

916
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 2: area of great concern to many people. And I was

917
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 2: just in a tribal building last week looking at books

918
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: for Yaki children right to help them stay connected with

919
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 2: their culture. If they're an Inn family, which is not

920
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: a tribal family, Can you, if you feel comfortable, explain

921
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 2: what iqua is and then the damage it does to

922
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 2: young people to be pulled away from their culture and

923
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 2: sort of get like this little active conversation that happens

924
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 2: every time that happens.

925
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad brought that up because colonization is definitely continuing.

926
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 3: For instance, we think about the Black Hills in South

927
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 3: Dakota and the gold mining, the gold rush there. Well,

928
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: there's still dozens of gold mining permits that are pending

929
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 3: right now in the Black Hills. There are dozens of

930
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 3: gold mines still operating there. And then the Coda and

931
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 3: Dakota are still fighting for the Black Hills. It's just

932
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 3: one instance. We see that all across the United States,

933
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 3: and I think when it comes to the Indian Child

934
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 3: Wealth for ACT, that's another really good example. So basically

935
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 3: the Indian Child Wealth for ACT if a Native child

936
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 3: is in the foster care system, and basically it helps

937
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 3: to support those children to find a placement with the

938
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 3: family who is either who is from their tribe, from

939
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 3: their cultural background. And the reasoning behind that is because

940
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 3: they to number one, to stop the history of assimilation

941
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 3: when it comes to taking Native children from their families.

942
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 3: And we know about that, you know, through the US.

943
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 6: Boarding school system.

944
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 3: That was one example, but it kind of transitioned at

945
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 3: a point once boarding schools were terminated, those forest boarding schools,

946
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 3: it kind of transitioned into the foster care system. And

947
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,439
Speaker 3: at one point a huge proportion of Native children were

948
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 3: in foster care and they were being placed with white families,

949
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 3: and those white families were not exposing them to their

950
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 3: cultural background, and that in itself was potentiating assimilation, because

951
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 3: that's another Native child. Dozens of Native children, thousands of

952
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 3: Native children who don't know their language, their culture because

953
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 3: they've been removed from community due to systemic factors right,

954
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 3: And so this bill it doesn't it doesn't say, oh,

955
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 3: you can only go.

956
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 6: With a Native family.

957
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 3: It helps to ensure that if there is a suitable

958
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 3: Native family from their tribe, that they will get first

959
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 3: priority because they know that culture is also very important

960
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 3: to Indigenous child wellbeing as well.

961
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 6: So the battle right now is being brought on by.

962
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 3: This lawsuit that primarily handles like mining and oil companies,

963
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 3: but they're taking this Indian Child Welfare Act lawsuit pro

964
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 3: bono because if you can get rid of the Indian

965
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: Child Welfare Act on the basis that they're claiming, it's

966
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 3: it's racism, right, They're claiming that Native people are getting

967
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: some unjust preferential treatment when it comes to adopting Native

968
00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 3: children over white people on the basis of race. Where

969
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 3: that falls short is that the basis of the Indian

970
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 3: Child Welfare Act is that Indigenous peoples are not a race.

971
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 3: They're sovereign nations. They have a political status distinct from

972
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 3: all other any other race in the US. And that

973
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 3: is the basis that tribes are arguing for that, Hey,

974
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 3: we have this political status, we're a tribal government. We

975
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 3: have the rights to raise our children we have the

976
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 3: rights to teach our children to make sure they grow

977
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 3: up in community with our culture. That's not a race issue.

978
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 3: That's a political issue that relates to our political status

979
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: as a tribal nation, as a sovereign nation. And so

980
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 3: they're going to be battling that in court. But if

981
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court decides that this Indian Child Welfare Act

982
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 3: is you know, racist or discriminatory based on race, it

983
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 3: means that a number of other bills another under of

984
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:02,439
Speaker 3: other things in the law that that, for instance, that

985
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 3: exist due to the political status of Indigenous nations, have

986
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 3: the potential to also be thrown out on the basis

987
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 3: of racial discrimination.

988
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 6: And that I think, will you know, will lead to.

989
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 3: A lot of a lot more land grabs, a lot more,

990
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: a lot less services being provided, for instance, like the

991
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 3: Indian Health Service, for instance, they might say, oh, why

992
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 3: do Native Americans get this healthcare? They might they might

993
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 3: start taking down a whole bunch of other things that

994
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: are really important to us. So it's really it's a

995
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 3: huge issue right now.

996
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: It's a troubling time. And I could see how people

997
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: in the past might have said, Oh, don't worry, that

998
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: won't happen I think it's pretty clear that these things

999
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: can happen pretty quickly and pretty aggressively.

1000
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 2: Now.

1001
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: I think the last couple of years, I've showed a

1002
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: lot of people that things can get worse somehow, you know,

1003
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: and that these things can be taken more and more

1004
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: can be taken from people that have already had so

1005
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: much taken from them.

1006
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 2: So I guess I like to finish off normally instead

1007
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: of just being like, here is some sad shit and

1008
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,240
Speaker 2: support thing to it and then kind of like dropping

1009
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 2: the mic asking people how they can do something to

1010
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: stand solidarity. So like, if either of you want to mention,

1011
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: I know this bears is flat. There are other attempts

1012
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 2: to appropriate and colonize Indigenous land, sacred spaces and fucking

1013
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 2: border wall. It's bulldozing Kumi graveyards. Like, as I'm talking

1014
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: to you, are there ways that people can stand solidarity

1015
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 2: with Indigenous communities?

1016
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 4: I'll go first because Victor will have a better answer

1017
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 4: than me, and he can. He can. You can jump

1018
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 4: in after me. But I think as like a low

1019
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 4: level entry thing.

1020
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 5: That people can do, and it kind of touches on

1021
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 5: how trying to remove the burden on asking for education

1022
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 5: and doing the education yourself for that.

1023
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 4: What people can do is just you can read books

1024
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 4: by Native.

1025
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 5: Authors and that teaches you a lot of history. And

1026
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 5: there's like some incredible Native authors who are writing beautiful

1027
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 5: stories that are weave with fact and fiction book books,

1028
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 5: and then like Native Media Reservation Dogs is like a

1029
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 5: TV show on Hulu that is a really great show

1030
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 5: that everyone should watch. So I think you can do

1031
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 5: some like easy things that just takes remove some of

1032
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 5: the needing to be taught to on yourselves and you

1033
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 5: can just learn about what we're missing.

1034
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 4: So those are like very very easy.

1035
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 5: And then in terms of like just from my point

1036
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 5: of view as a as an MD, there are a

1037
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 5: lot of ways to get involved because these the reservations

1038
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 5: are chronically understaffed. They're just like rural medicine IHS or

1039
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 5: not IHS. Royal medicine is very under understaffed in in

1040
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 5: our country, and so there's always opportunities for doctors to

1041
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 5: go and work and it's like valuable and amazing for

1042
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 5: us and for the community to be able to do.

1043
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 5: So there are ways to do that through local companies

1044
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 5: and directly through the IHS sites.

1045
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think conversation. You know,

1046
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 3: I would love if white allies would talk to their

1047
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 3: family members and their friends. And I think there are

1048
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 3: a lot of moments where in these day to day

1049
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 3: personal interactions when Natives might come up to stand up,

1050
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 3: like if you hear something that is ignorant, you hear

1051
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 3: something that might be racist, to stand up to the

1052
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 3: people that you know in your own circles and say, hey, no,

1053
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 3: that's not correct. To talk to your friends and family

1054
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 3: about what you learned with regard to colonization. Are the

1055
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 3: issues that Native American people face because I think some

1056
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 3: of the people that we listen to the most of

1057
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: the people that we love, our friends and our family,

1058
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 3: and I think there needs to be a lot more

1059
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 3: conversation in those spaces, a lot more accountability because I

1060
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 3: know that it can be very hard when when difficult

1061
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 3: things come up in those personal interactions to challenge someone.

1062
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 3: But I think that that is where that that sort

1063
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 3: of thing can really move the needle in the long run.

1064
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 3: And I think that sometimes people just choose to stay silent,

1065
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 3: and I would like that to change this.

1066
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, very well said. That seems like a fantastic place

1067
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: to close it here. Thank you. Both so much for

1068
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: coming on and hanging out with us. You've been listening

1069
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: to the House of Pod and it could happen here.

1070
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: Let's get some plugs in for you guys. Can you

1071
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: Let's start with you, Victor. Tell us where people can

1072
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: find you or plug anything you want to plug.

1073
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 6: Come to the rest. Just ask for me.

1074
01:00:58,880 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: Original Facebook.

1075
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, my Instagram and Twitter are Vlocarmen V L O

1076
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 3: C A R M E end.

1077
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: Very cool and Mollie.

1078
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 5: I exited the Twitter sphere after Elon Musk took over,

1079
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 5: so I'm off, but you can find me in Sacramento.

1080
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: All right. You guys have been so awesome. Thank you

1081
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: both for coming on. We hope to talk again sometime.

1082
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 6: Thank you.

1083
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 7: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

1084
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 7: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1085
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 7: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

1086
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 7: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1087
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 7: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated

1088
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 7: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.