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Speaker 1: The volume. It's Boxing with Chris Mannox presented by FanDuel.

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Speaker 1: is Boxing with Chris Manning or somebody punched him in

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Speaker 1: the face. Anti Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher.

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Speaker 1: Wat's this Heavy hosted by s is Chris Mannex. That

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Speaker 1: was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going

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Speaker 1: on in the world of boxing. When you have talent,

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Speaker 1: you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix and we

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Speaker 1: are back boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume

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Speaker 1: Sports podcast network. A lot going on in the world

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Speaker 1: of boxing uh this week, and one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: guests back on the show, Keith Idek, senior writer from

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Speaker 1: Boxing Scene dot Com, repping the New York Jets as

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Speaker 1: he always does. You can't see this on video, Keith,

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Speaker 1: just flex. What's up, Keith? Oh, it's a big, big

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Speaker 1: game this week. I have beat up on your paths

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Speaker 1: a little bit with Oh, come on, yeah, okay. That

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Speaker 1: that's how it often works out with Jets Patriots. They

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Speaker 1: Tom Brady's long gone man glory days are over, my friend.

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Speaker 1: All right, there's a lot I want to get into

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Speaker 1: this week. I want to talk about him Monia's upcoming fight.

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Speaker 1: In Eric quotes, I'm using that. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about the negotiations with Tag Davis and Ryan Garcia. But

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Speaker 1: I want to begin, Keith with what we saw last weekend. Uh. Jennebec,

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Speaker 1: whose name I've decided on this podcast I will not

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Speaker 1: try to pronounce because I'll just screw it up. The

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Speaker 1: w b O middleweight champion. He defended his title over

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Speaker 1: the weekend. Didn't look great in a decision win performance. UM.

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Speaker 1: He has been a Guy Keith that is being touted

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Speaker 1: as the Boogeyman. We've had Buddy mcgart say he could

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Speaker 1: beat every middleweight in boxing right now. He has shown

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Speaker 1: real power throughout the early stages of his career. But

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Speaker 1: when you watch that fight this past weekend, did we

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Speaker 1: see any part of Jannebeck get exposed? Did we learn

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Speaker 1: anything new about Jannebec? Look, I don't think he's a

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Speaker 1: one punch knockout puncher. He has shown some power, and

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Speaker 1: he did knock out the opponent that Jimi Monee is

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Speaker 1: going to fight on Saturday in the second round. Like

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Speaker 1: phase first, it was a you know, picture perfect out

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Speaker 1: two years ago. But I think he's more of an

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Speaker 1: accumulation puncher. I don't think he's he's a one punch

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Speaker 1: knockout artist per se uh. I was surprised, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people, virtually everyone watched it was

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Speaker 1: surprised that Denzel Bentley was still standing in the fifth round.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe to some degree, Denzel Bentley might have

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Speaker 1: been a little bit surprised and he was still standing

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Speaker 1: in the fifth round, and that's when he gained the

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Speaker 1: confidence to start letting his hands go, realizing that he

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Speaker 1: could take Jane's power, and then it turned into a

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Speaker 1: real fight. You know, I thought, over the last eight

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Speaker 1: rounds of the fight, you could certainly argue that Denzel

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Speaker 1: Bentley won half of those rounds, maybe five of those rounds,

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Speaker 1: but he gave away the first four rounds. So I

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Speaker 1: thought that Jannebec and it's Chris. Somehow it's pronounced allah

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Speaker 1: allah hannalah ala mahana. I don't really get that the

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Speaker 1: way that it's spelled. But I butchered a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: and once I started talking about him last week, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go with the top rank is going

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Speaker 1: with Jennebec. That's his name on the on the boat,

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Speaker 1: and they changed the way they spell his first name

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Speaker 1: because they thought Zanabek would be mispronounced, which it would be.

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Speaker 1: It's last name all of a sudden, first had an

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Speaker 1: eye in it two years ago and we find that

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Speaker 1: out often. Dmitri Bival even has changed the spelling of

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Speaker 1: his name apparently. But anyway, you know, Jattebec, he's a

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Speaker 1: good fighter man, and I want to see him tested

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Speaker 1: more than he's been tested so far. That's going to

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Speaker 1: take some cooperation from the right guy of course, but um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if exposed is the right word because

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Speaker 1: he definitively won the fight. But you know these prefight narratives, Chris,

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Speaker 1: you know, we write what Bob Aram says and what whoever,

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Speaker 1: you know, whomever is saying before the fight, and they're

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Speaker 1: laying it on a little thick. I mean, he's the boogeyman.

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Speaker 1: He's this, he's that. People have been reluctant to fight him,

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Speaker 1: primarily because he's not well known even among boxing fans.

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Speaker 1: I mean, boxing fans are aware of who he is.

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Speaker 1: Of course, he's the w b O middleweight champion, but

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Speaker 1: he's not a high profile fighter. So the way some

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Speaker 1: guys might look at it, including Heimi Bungia, well what

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Speaker 1: is the upside of fighting him? I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: make an enormous amount of money now. Of course, now

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Speaker 1: you can get your hands on one of the middleway titles,

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Speaker 1: which is valuable and gives you some leverage. But he's

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Speaker 1: not the highest profile guy. So if you're gonna if

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Speaker 1: you're a middleweight with options, you know, you might want

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Speaker 1: to fight Jamal Charlo if he ever fights again. You

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Speaker 1: might want to fight Gannetty, you know, of course, get

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Speaker 1: Logan is a big star, you would want to fight him,

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Speaker 1: So I get it from that perspective, someone's gonna have

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Speaker 1: to fight him eventually or he's going to be in

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Speaker 1: a position where he continues fighting. Uh. You know British

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Speaker 1: fighters who are willing to take the fight. And kudos

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Speaker 1: to Denzel Bentley and poor Debt and poor Danny dignam

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Speaker 1: who was destroyed in the second round of their fight.

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Speaker 1: But give the guy credit. At least, you know, ten

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Speaker 1: other guys turned it down and he said, yeah, I'll

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Speaker 1: go fight him. He was in over his head and

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Speaker 1: he got knocked out in the second round, but he

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Speaker 1: took the fight. So you have to give those guys credit,

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Speaker 1: particularly Bentley, because I think he really changed the course

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Speaker 1: of his career by fighting the way that he did.

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Speaker 1: He's going to get another payday, particularly domestically. He's going

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Speaker 1: to get another payday off of this, and he should.

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Speaker 1: M I. I look, I think Denzel Bentley can win

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Speaker 1: some fights at middleweight. He he shocked me. I thought

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Speaker 1: he'd be down and out third, fourth round, that would

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Speaker 1: be the end of it, but he um hung in

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Speaker 1: there and as you said, he did win some of

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Speaker 1: those later rounds of the fight. If I'm Jennebec, I

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Speaker 1: gotta get to work on my conditioning because I thought

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Speaker 1: he wore down in the second half of that fight.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to except that when you get

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Speaker 1: to higher levels, you're not gonna knock these guys out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna have to go ten, eleven, twelve

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Speaker 1: rounds in a lot of these big time fights. And

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Speaker 1: I think he's still incredibly talented and fighting a hard

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Speaker 1: hitting south paw. Is nobody wants to do that, Like

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Speaker 1: that's nobody wants. Is gonna volunteer to fight that guy? Um?

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Speaker 1: But I think he does. He's gonna have to work

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Speaker 1: in his conditioning as his career moves forward. You mentioned Golopkin,

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Speaker 1: and there are some parallels there because Golofkin couldn't get

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Speaker 1: anybody to fight him for a number of years. Um,

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Speaker 1: do we know what he's gonna do? Like at this point,

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Speaker 1: like he's got a couple of mandatories that are in

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Speaker 1: the process or have been ordered, and they're not very

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Speaker 1: lucrative fights. Keith, like Gallopkins, kind of in a position

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Speaker 1: where he's either gonna have to vacate one of his

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Speaker 1: two major titles, or take a fight for probably considerably

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Speaker 1: less money, right, I mean, unless you can get like

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Speaker 1: the Middle Easter or a foreign country involved. I don't

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Speaker 1: know where the kind of revenue he's been used to

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Speaker 1: getting is going to come from. Here. Well, that's the

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Speaker 1: interesting thing with glove and Chris, because he was seemingly

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Speaker 1: very happy to announce that he was separating from the

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Speaker 1: Zone after his third fight with Canelo Alvarez. And what

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Speaker 1: I was thinking when he was saying that, I understand

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Speaker 1: it from a personal perspective. He feels wronged by them

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Speaker 1: in some way. Look, we should all be wronged and

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Speaker 1: paid that kind of money, I guess. But um, you know,

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Speaker 1: he feels that he's been wronged by his own so

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Speaker 1: he wants to go out and test the market and

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Speaker 1: try to fight. Don't you hate it when guys feel

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Speaker 1: wrong when they're paid millions? Don't you hate? That's what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. I mean, we should all be wrong in

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Speaker 1: that way, right, irom me? I don't like the getting

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Speaker 1: punched in the face part, but um, but yeah, sign

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Speaker 1: me up for that. But but what I would say

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Speaker 1: about Glovekin is I think he's going to get a

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Speaker 1: reality check in some sense because he's going to go

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Speaker 1: out onto the open market with maybe a false sense

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Speaker 1: of what his value actually is based on what he's

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Speaker 1: been paid, and you know which fights are available for him.

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Speaker 1: People are not going to be tripping over themselves to

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Speaker 1: overpay for Ganatti Glovekin mandatory defenses when he's forty years old,

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Speaker 1: coming off a loss. He looked, you know, he was

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Speaker 1: competitive with Canello. He didn't get embarrassed in that fight

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Speaker 1: by any stretch, but he lost, and uh, you know

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Speaker 1: who's going to pay him and for which fights? Because

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Speaker 1: if he doesn't want to fight, let's just say Jamal Charlo.

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Speaker 1: And again, I know Jamal Charlos next fight is not

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Speaker 1: going to be against Gannatti Glovekin. But let's say that

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Speaker 1: he wants to do business with PBC and get involved

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Speaker 1: in a pay per view situation. What would the guarantee be?

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Speaker 1: Because the market has changed the world has changed in

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Speaker 1: boxing in terms of what's being paid even to the

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Speaker 1: top level fighters. We just went through it with Terence

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Speaker 1: Crawford and Errol Spence, who you know are supposed to

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Speaker 1: come together and one of the biggest fights that could

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Speaker 1: be made in boxing, and Al Hayman had convinced both

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Speaker 1: of them that they should fight without a guarantee. So

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Speaker 1: if Ganei Glovekin thinks that he's going to be paid

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Speaker 1: X for you know, for fighting Jamal Charlo or whatever

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Speaker 1: else he presumes to be a tough fight, you know,

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Speaker 1: he might be in for a reality check here because

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Speaker 1: he also he might be forced if the zone is

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Speaker 1: willing to do it, and who knows if they are,

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Speaker 1: he might be forced to go back and do business

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Speaker 1: with his own That's what I was gonna say. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it could turn out to be uh problematic for him

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Speaker 1: that he kind of went out in a blaze of

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Speaker 1: glory against his own. So eager to be removed from

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Speaker 1: from that situation, because as I survey the landscape, the

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Speaker 1: most compelling and perhaps winnable fight for him is against

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Speaker 1: him Mungia, who we're going to get to in a minute.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a pretty marketable fight. You could do

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Speaker 1: it in Texas. You could even do it in Mexico

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Speaker 1: if you really want to do a big fight there.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Vegas, after denying that fight what was it

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Speaker 1: four years ago now, would happily take that back on

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Speaker 1: its calendar. That's a major fight and you know who know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, if the we're gonna get to Mungey again,

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Speaker 1: but the zone might be so eager to not do

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Speaker 1: crappy himI Mungia fights that they will get back into

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Speaker 1: business with Gnadi Golofkin. But if you're gonna, if you're

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Speaker 1: looking at the way to make the most money and

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Speaker 1: to keep winning or get back to your winning ways,

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Speaker 1: it's probably m fight, isn't it, you would think? And

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Speaker 1: boy would it? Wouldn't that be a delicious irony? If

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Speaker 1: so ironic five years later that winds up being the

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Speaker 1: big fight for Glovkin. You know, Bob Bennett is no

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Speaker 1: longer with the VATA State Athletic Commission. Bob's retired, so

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Speaker 1: I think they would get approval on that fight at

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Speaker 1: this point. But we need Keith, we need an oral

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Speaker 1: history on why that fight was not approved. We'll get

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Speaker 1: like Bob Bennett, Tom loffler Um, everybody, HBO executives, everybody

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Speaker 1: was involved doing oral history on the failure of one.

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Speaker 1: You know, I know Bob's take on it because I've

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Speaker 1: spoken to him about it, even several times after the fact,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you'll get a lot of cursing and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But you know, look, he probably saved though he probably

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Speaker 1: I mean back then, Munghi doesn't Kolofkin like it's probably

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Speaker 1: more competitive than Bob Bennett was believing. But Mungia doesn't

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Speaker 1: beat that version of Golofkin in two thousand eighteen. He probably,

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Speaker 1: like Bob Bennett did, Bunghi a favorite thing because it

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Speaker 1: allowed Mangia to, you know, move on fights. Adam, I'll

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Speaker 1: leave for that title and then go on the string

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Speaker 1: of weird you know, you know that. That's why that's

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Speaker 1: the strange thing about Mungi. I don't know if you're

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Speaker 1: ready to go in that direction, but that's what's perplexing

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Speaker 1: about him, and that he was willing to fight Nati

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Speaker 1: Glovkin five years ago on very short notice, uh, seemingly

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Speaker 1: unprepared from a competition standpoint for that fight and that

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Speaker 1: point in his career, and now he's fighting I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what is happening? Like, who's like? Where is the quality control?

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Speaker 1: Based on who he's from? What is going on? Well,

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Speaker 1: let's do this then, um I'm a Munghi is gonna

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Speaker 1: return this weekend onto Zone. He's facing Gonzalo Gaston Korea,

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Speaker 1: who I had no idea who that was um until

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Speaker 1: they made the fight twenty one in five is his

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Speaker 1: opponent this I was reading a couple of the clips,

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Speaker 1: and it's being portrayed as a stay busy fight for

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Speaker 1: Yimi Maghia, which you don't usually begrudge fighters if they

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Speaker 1: want to stay active, but Himimia has been active, and

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Speaker 1: he has been active in a lot of stay busy fights.

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Speaker 1: His last fight was against Jimmy Kelly. Before that, Demetrius

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Speaker 1: Ballard before that, gave Brisetto before that, Camille's Aramtta before that,

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Speaker 1: Torioto Johnson, Garry O'Sullivan, Patrick a Loote, Dennis Hogan. I

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Speaker 1: mean like as a middleweight, he has not fought anyone

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Speaker 1: at this point above basically a sea level and gave

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Speaker 1: rise Otto was probably the best opponent. But Gabe, even

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Speaker 1: though he earned that opportunity with that knockout of Victor

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Speaker 1: mar Melakuziev, Gabe is on the was on the back

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Speaker 1: end of his career when he faced uh Mongia. Then,

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Speaker 1: like everything, Keith is a stay busy fight for him,

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Speaker 1: and I don't understand it. He has had many opportunities

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Speaker 1: to face high level opponents. He has been ordered I

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Speaker 1: think by every sanctioning body to fight for a middleweight title.

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Speaker 1: At this point, I don't know what he's waiting for,

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Speaker 1: because whenever I speak to Himan McGhee, and it's evidenced

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Speaker 1: by the Golofkin he's willing to take the Golofkin fight.

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Speaker 1: Every time I talked to him, he expresses real interest

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Speaker 1: in taking big fights, whether it is against Demetrius Andre

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Speaker 1: or Ganati Golofkin, or or Jamal Charlote and the top

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Speaker 1: guys that are out there. And yet you know, every

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Speaker 1: three or four months we get a press release saying

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Speaker 1: Himan McGhee is fighting someone that we've never heard of

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Speaker 1: or is going to be a ten to one underdog

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Speaker 1: or more going into that fight. What do you make

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Speaker 1: of this? Like, what is going on with the career

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Speaker 1: of himI McGhee, who is now I think twenty six

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Speaker 1: at this point and reaching the point where you've got

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Speaker 1: to start asking is he going to be in a

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Speaker 1: serious fight? Well? What I make of it at this point, Chris,

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Speaker 1: just based on the string of you know, recent opponents,

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Speaker 1: is people say a lot of things right, and and

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Speaker 1: they look, he's got to take some of the blame

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Speaker 1: at a certain point, you can blame it on your promoters.

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Speaker 1: He's got a lot of cooks in the kitchen, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, and there are a lot of people involved

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Speaker 1: in his career that may have conflicting interests and have

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Speaker 1: prevented him from taking some of these fights. I'll buy

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Speaker 1: some of that. Eventually, some of it falls on the fighter.

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Speaker 1: But now he's being paid well for what amount to

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Speaker 1: tune up fights. So if you're him, you're going to

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Speaker 1: keep doing this as long as you're allowed to keep

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Speaker 1: doing this to some extent. But you have to want

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Speaker 1: to test yourself. And as you said, Chris, he's been

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Speaker 1: presented with numerous opportunities. I've seen some of the documentation

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Speaker 1: where they've turned down fights against a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: like he didn't want to fight. Look, maybe he really

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Speaker 1: did want to fight Jamal Charlo, but for that fight

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Speaker 1: to fall apart for the reason that it fell apart

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Speaker 1: is baffling to me. The money was there initially, they

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Speaker 1: were going to put it on showtime. It was gonna.

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Speaker 1: It was actually gonna, which would have been good for fans,

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Speaker 1: because you know, that's a fight that sometimes might get

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Speaker 1: pushed into the pay per view realm, So you know

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to fight janebec okay no one knows

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Speaker 1: who jannebec alam Hanalah is fine. He didn't want to

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Speaker 1: fight Demetrius Andreadi's a south Paul and no one wants

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Speaker 1: to fight Demetrius okay. Um doesn't doesn't want to fight Glovkin,

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Speaker 1: does he? He doesn't want to fight Charlo, He don't

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Speaker 1: who do you want to fight? I mean, there's so

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Speaker 1: many And now, from what I do, my understanding is

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Speaker 1: that he maybe doesn't consider himself a middleweight anymore. So

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Speaker 1: if you're not a middleweight in your room high by

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Speaker 1: all these organizations at middleweight, but you really consider yourself

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Speaker 1: a super middleweight, yet you're fighting at tech weights, not

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Speaker 1: at the super middleweight what are you and what in

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Speaker 1: the world are you doing? Because he's not going to

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Speaker 1: fight the super middleweight because, as Canello has made perfectly clear,

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Speaker 1: he does not want to fight other Mexican fighters, for

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Speaker 1: whatever that's worth. So if you're not going to get

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Speaker 1: me fighting the super middleweight division and you don't want

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Speaker 1: to fight any of the actual middle weights that matter,

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Speaker 1: what what is the purpose of now? Look, he's being

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Speaker 1: paid well, so there's some culpability maybe on the other

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Speaker 1: side of it from pay he does. You've told me

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Speaker 1: this in the in the past. You have much more

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Speaker 1: insight into this than I do about what the streaming

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Speaker 1: numbers are on his own people too for Heimie mong

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Speaker 1: his fights and the one thing, you know, one thing

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Speaker 1: you'd have to say, he's an entertaining fighter. But how

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Speaker 1: long can that last when before people just say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: look dude, I mean he's Chris. I I saw the

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Speaker 1: Jana BC fight against Korea two years ago. He literally

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Speaker 1: knocked him. He wasn't quite unconscious, but he knocked him

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Speaker 1: face first to the canvas in the second round of

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Speaker 1: the fight. Why that would be a guy Honeymonga is

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Speaker 1: fighting two years later when he refuses to fight Jane

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Speaker 1: is insane. I don't get it either. Um, you know

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Speaker 1: in this the first quarter or first half of that's it,

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Speaker 1: like you've got options on the table. You mentioned the

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Speaker 1: weight too, I don't. I don't even know if he

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Speaker 1: can make middleweight anymore. I believe this upcoming fight's gonna

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Speaker 1: be out of catch weight as well, somewhere above one

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Speaker 1: sixty um. And he's talked about going back down to

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Speaker 1: middleweight for one more fight. A world title fight before

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Speaker 1: campaigning at one sight, like my nightmare, Keith is he

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Speaker 1: wakes up, you know early next year it was I'm

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Speaker 1: a super middleweight and then starts taking tun Up fights

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Speaker 1: a super middleweight after taking Tunup fights at middleweight. The

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Speaker 1: entire time, it just doesn't make It doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: The fight, as we just alluded to make, is Genadi Golofkin.

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Speaker 1: That is the massive fight for him Mangia. It's marketable.

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of a fifty fifty fight right now.

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Speaker 1: Maybe probably favors Munghi at this point, given what we

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Speaker 1: saw from Golofkin in the last fight, because Mangia has

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Speaker 1: improved a lot over the last few years. He's a

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Speaker 1: much better offensive fighter than he was early on, and

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Speaker 1: he was always pretty good offensively. His chin, a lot

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Speaker 1: of his opponents have told me, is really good. I

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Speaker 1: think that's that will hold up against some bigger punchers. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is his time. This is opportunity. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you see Cannello out there and people nitpick who Canello fights.

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Speaker 1: Canello is always like, I want to fight the very best.

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Speaker 1: I'm going after all the title holders. I want to

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Speaker 1: I want to rematch with Dmitri Bevole next year. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: you got Mungio doesn't seem to be chasing anything, just

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Speaker 1: sort of chasing a paycheck, which is fine, I guess

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Speaker 1: if you want to get paid and keep your unblemish

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Speaker 1: record intact. But it's just getting old at this point.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knows it. I mean, I think Golden Boy knows

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Speaker 1: it at this point. I'm sure that you know, the

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Speaker 1: TV networks know it. At this point. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: and sometimes enough is enough. It's just time to say

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Speaker 1: you're gonna even gonna fight somebody big, or you know,

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Speaker 1: go somewhere else. And the other thing that it's frustrating

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Speaker 1: about it Chris is, as you mentioned, he's a good fighter.

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Speaker 1: I mean, particularly from an offensive standpoint, he's very good.

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Speaker 1: He's entertaining to watch, and he's kind of what seems

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Speaker 1: to be a granite chin that look that will crack

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Speaker 1: at some point against the long guy. But he's he's

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Speaker 1: a he's a talented guy who's a fan friendly fighter

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Speaker 1: who seemingly should have confidence, which is what makes it

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Speaker 1: so frustrating that he's fighting the kinds of guys that

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Speaker 1: he's been fighting. Yeah, it's crazy. UM, you know, he's

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what the odds are for this

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Speaker 1: upcoming fight. They're probably massive UM against Corea, but next

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Speaker 1: year's big. I hope he and Golofkin get on the steeve.

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Speaker 1: If it's for like one version of Golofkin's title, if

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Speaker 1: he has to drop the other one because he takes

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Speaker 1: the fight, that is a huge, huge fight and a

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Speaker 1: marketable one and a great one. I hope we get

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Speaker 1: to see that um next year. UM. Finally, let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about where we are with Tank Davis

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Speaker 1: and Ryan Garcia. I've been reporting a lot on this

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks, and my understanding is

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Speaker 1: from a contract standpoint and now television logistics standpoint, they're

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Speaker 1: basically they're they're right there with this fight. Um. They

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Speaker 1: agree on the financial terms a while ago. That was

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Speaker 1: something that was remarkably one of the first things they

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Speaker 1: were able to do. I think Ryan Garcia aside, was

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Speaker 1: pretty amenable to being the B side in virtually every

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Speaker 1: possible way, and I think that helped grease the wheels

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Speaker 1: a little bit to get this deal done. The television

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Speaker 1: side took a lot more time, but from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: it is going to be some version of a co

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Speaker 1: pay per view between showtime and his own, which is

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Speaker 1: what it always should have been. Keith. I made this.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to somebody and I kind of made

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Speaker 1: this analogy because I think fighters should love the idea

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Speaker 1: of co pay per views because they get all the

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Speaker 1: assets that both companies have, pushing people to buy that

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Speaker 1: fight and presumably pushing their purses up or the total

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Speaker 1: pay per view buys up as well. It's like someone

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Speaker 1: from the Lakers being like no, being offered like to

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Speaker 1: be put on T N T and ESPN, and them

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Speaker 1: saying no. Like if you're the athlete, you say yes,

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Speaker 1: you want them involved. I get why promoters don't want

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Speaker 1: to do co promotions. I get why networks don't want

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Speaker 1: to do co pay per views. If you're a fire,

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Speaker 1: you want this. You want as much exposure digitally and

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Speaker 1: linear as you can possibly get. So I think they're

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Speaker 1: there at less. I think the big question now as

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Speaker 1: we record this on Thursday morning is what will the

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Speaker 1: date be? Uh. They initially had been targeting a date

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Speaker 1: in January that could wind up being pushed into the

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Speaker 1: early part of the spring, but I can say this

422
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: pretty confidently that when it comes to all the major

423
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 1: deal points, including how it's going to be broadcast, this

424
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: deal is basically done. So I'll ask you this, kids,

425
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: This is my reporting I'm kind of putting out there

426
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of Crawford Spence failing spectacularly and devolving

427
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: into a weird Instagram whatever Terence Crawford did that a

428
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: Twitter fight where they talk about hedge funds and all

429
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: the other crap. Um, Does it surprise you that we

430
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: are at the proverbial one yard line with Ryan Garcia

431
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: Tek Davis Um, Yes, because we've become accustomed to these things,

432
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: uh imploding. But I would say in the aftermath and

433
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: the wake of the Terence Crawford Errol Spence thing, they

434
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: needed to make this happen. The powers that being needed

435
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 1: to make this happen more now, maybe more so now

436
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: than any time in recent history, because you cannot continue

437
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: alienating the people who support this sport, in effect spitting

438
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 1: in their face every time a big fight comes around,

439
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: and coming around with you know a multitude of reasons

440
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: why the from a business perspective, why the fight doesn't

441
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: happen because fans don't care about that they, for the

442
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: love of God, just give us some of the fights

443
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: that we want. You can't, you know, this the Spence

444
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: Crawford thing. You know, that's gonna linger for a long

445
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: time in terms of leaving a bad taste in the

446
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: mouths of people who financially support this sport, and with

447
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: the fan base ever dwindling, you can't continue to turn

448
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: off those people and force them to, you know, basically

449
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 1: force them to spend their dollars in their time on

450
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: other sports or other forms of entertainment. So they really

451
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: needed this fight to come together. It does seem like

452
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: we're on the path here, Chris towards some sort of

453
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: announcement of the fight, uh, that both fight, particularly when

454
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 1: both fighters have been very vocal publicly about stating we

455
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: want the fight. I don't care about the zone, I

456
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: don't care about showtime, I don't care about al Hey,

457
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: nobody said that, but I don't think that's allowed. Um.

458
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: But the point is they've been very vocal about wanting

459
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: the fight. And when two fighters expressed that type of

460
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 1: willingness publicly to to do a fight and then it

461
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, you know, the fans are going to be bitter,

462
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: you know, and the and the boxing fan base is

463
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: already quite bitter, as we know on Twitter, you know,

464
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: on the forums on our website. I mean, you know,

465
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: these are these are cynical people and and and rightfully

466
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: so to some degree. But it looks like we're finally

467
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: getting one of the fights that we really want to see,

468
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: and honestly, commercially might what might be the biggest fight

469
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: outside of the heavyweight division. We discussed this on the

470
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: podcast before that we think that Tank Ryan Garcia, because

471
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: the crossover appeal and their different audiences and everything, might

472
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: do more pay per view buys than Spence Crawford. It's

473
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: certainly not a more meaningful fight, but it might be

474
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: a bigger fight commercially. And look, if we get it,

475
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: let's just be thankful and maybe hope, maybe it's a

476
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: sign in three that will start to get the fights

477
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: that we that we want. Fingers crossed. But of course, Chris,

478
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: you and I to uh me even older than you,

479
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: two cynical people have been covering the sport for a

480
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: very long time, are very much used to, you know,

481
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: Lucy pulling away the football. So it sets up what

482
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: could be a pretty good first quarter if we get

483
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 1: plant benet Videz finalized at some point, if Deontay Wilder

484
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: faces Andy Ruiz, if overseas we get the unification fight

485
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: between Alex and Usk and Tyson Fury. You're right, I

486
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: don't want to have the football pulled away, But I mean,

487
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: if we get one per month like that, with some

488
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: other stuff sprinkled in on the main networks, Like I

489
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: don't think boxing fans would balk at paying a pay

490
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: per view price for Ryan Garcia against Tank Davis. I

491
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: think that's a good fight. Um. I just that's a

492
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: great fight, and I agree with you, and we've talked

493
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: about this. You're right that it's as marketable a fight

494
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: as you can make outside of the heavyweight division. Maybe

495
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: in the U S it's it is bigger in the

496
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: US than you know, versus Fury. That's massive in the

497
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: UK and overseas, but I think in the US Tank

498
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: Ryan is a bigger fight, brings in two different fan bases.

499
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: I hope they get it done. I hope they crossed

500
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: that finish line um for this fight, because I mean,

501
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: that's a that's a I don't even know how I

502
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: favor that's a don't blink type of fight because I

503
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: think the first guy that lands their best punch, whether

504
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: it's Servants you know, left hand uppercut, whatever he does,

505
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: or Ryan Garcia with that incredibly fast left hook, Um,

506
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: that person's gonna win. And who knows, maybe we get

507
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: a great trilogy at or something. Maybe that's so good

508
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: because look at the past. I mean when when networks

509
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: get together, when boars get together, in recent years, we've

510
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: gotten great stuff, like we got May with her pack

511
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: Yell back in two thousand fifteen. More recently got Fury

512
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: and and Wild. They're fighting two incredible fights. Uh, it

513
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: just it works. It just need egos need to get checked.

514
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: And I think they were in this. And I give

515
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: credit to to everybody, Al Hayman May with the promotions,

516
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: the two networks, Golden Boy, uh you know, Loupe Valencia,

517
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: the manager for Ryan Garcia, like they were all intimately

518
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: involved in this, and it seems like we're close to

519
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: getting it done. So I hope that. Uh, I hope

520
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: we get that. And maybe by tomorrow when people listen

521
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: to this podcast on Friday, it will be killed and

522
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: we'll have to do this podcast all over again. Next week. Well,

523
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: we'll go back to being curmudgeedly next week exactly old

524
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: old media as they now call us on so sad

525
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: so sad. Keith always good to talk to you, man.

526
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: Keep up the great work and we'll do it again soon, Chris,

527
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, man. Thanks and when we come back

528
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: my conversation with Bob Barram. The NBA season is under way.

529
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: It's the perfect time to download FanDuel, America's number one

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531
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535
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541
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545
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546
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547
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548
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549
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:20,639
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550
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: one years old in just a few days from now,

551
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: and he's joining me here in Las Vegas where he

552
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: was at another press conference, another boxing event, getting ready

553
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: for another fight this weekend. Does it still do you

554
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: still get excited about doing events, Bob, even the some

555
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: of the smaller ones. Yeah, of course. I mean I

556
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: really enjoy it because I consume the sport like I

557
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: wish fans all fans did come from the beginning and

558
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: watch the early fights and see these young men and

559
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: now women develop into real experience pros. I mean, I

560
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: can't understand people who go to a fight and just

561
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: come for the semi main and the main when they

562
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: can see so much action for the same price. Uh

563
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: if they come early? Do you still do kind of

564
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: mental note taking when you're watching a preliminary fight, the

565
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: second or third fight on the card on one of

566
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: the young guys that you're seeing. Are you still kind

567
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: of taking notes on what you're seeing in them? Yeah?

568
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: Of course, of course. I Mean sometimes my matchmakers accused

569
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: me of not knowing what I'm watching, but but I

570
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 1: but don't they work for you, don't they work for you,

571
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: so they can still accuse me of not knowing what

572
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm watching, you know, but you know they see things

573
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: that I'm not seeing. But you know, uh I I

574
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: enjoyed that discovering, you know, talent and seeing how talent develops. Uh,

575
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: it's just for me, it's it's really exciting when you

576
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: could think back to when you're in your thirties and

577
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: you're just getting started in this business working with Ali

578
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: doing the closed circuit stuff. Could you have ever imagined

579
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: you'd be doing this at age nine one? Absolutely not.

580
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: You know, I just did it the first part I

581
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: did for Ali. Uh it was gonna be a one

582
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: off kind of thing. I was still practicing law, and uh,

583
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: I thought it would be a kick, you know, great,

584
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: great alle to do a fight, and then we ran

585
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: into the draft situation and I got sucked in and

586
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: you know here I am, uh sixties something years later,

587
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: I'm still doing it. But uh, you know when I

588
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: first thought it, I knew so little really about boxing

589
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: that I only imagine that there was one division, the

590
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: heavyweight division. That right, although you know, I had heard

591
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: of Ray Robinson and Siva, but you know, I had

592
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: never seen a fight in person until I promoted Ali.

593
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: When did you decide this is going to be my future,

594
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: this is my profession. I never decided that. It just

595
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: happened by it happened, you know. Uh. I did all

596
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: these fights for Ali, and then he couldn't fight anymore. Uh,

597
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: and then we did a tournament to replace him, and

598
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: then Ali came back, and I thought of promoting him,

599
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: and uh by that time, I had a staff working

600
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: on the fights. And so you get caught up in

601
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: this and like even when you want, like the Mafia movie,

602
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: every time you want to get out, they pulled you

603
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: back in. Did you ever think over the years, did

604
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: you ever think about getting out? Not really, not seriously, no,

605
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I always threatened myself, you know, when things

606
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 1: went bit screw this, I'm getting out. But you know,

607
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: I guess I suppose never seriously because I never got out.

608
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: Do you remember any moments like that where you did

609
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: say to yourself, screwed this, I'm getting out? Oh yeah,

610
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: you know when you get double cross by people, and

611
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: you know, dealing with some of the people that I

612
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: dealt with over the years, just dealing with Don King

613
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: over the years. You know, yeah, you you you ask yourself,

614
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: what the hell am I doing in this kind of business?

615
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 1: But you know, it got into it gets into your blood.

616
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I would say that's certainly since the beginning,

617
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: uh the eighties, maybe maybe the seventies, I never really

618
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: thought seriously about getting out. You mentioned Don King. Top

619
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: rank remains one of the most successful prominent promotional businesses

620
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: in all of boxing. Don hasn't been as heavily involved

621
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: as he used to be. To you, what's been the

622
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: key to maintaining this level of success for so long? Well,

623
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: bringing in younger people. You know, you can't do it

624
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: to be an old guy and think in terms of

625
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: what it was and what was very successful. Uh, and

626
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: time matches on and technology matches on. You've got to

627
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: have young people with new ideas who want to stand

628
00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: uh uh the public uh that exists now rather than

629
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 1: the public that existed years ago. You need younger people.

630
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: You cannot do stay in business just on the basis

631
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: of how successful you were, uh in the beginning, because

632
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: the world changes so fast. When you think about how

633
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: the business has changed over the last sixty years. It's

634
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: kind of a broad question, But I mean, how much

635
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: more is it more challenging now than it used to be?

636
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: It's obviously different, but is it more difficult now than

637
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: it used to be? I don't know, difficulty? You know,

638
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: for me it has to be uh, a little bit

639
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: more difficult because I'm from a different era, But it's

640
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: not more difficult two people who were involved in it now,

641
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: right because if they're involved in it now, uh, the

642
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: business of social media and so forth, it's something that

643
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: uh they take for granted. That's part of what they do.

644
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: For me, you know, when I see what's happening on

645
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: how you do social media? For me, it's something that

646
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: I never would have ever contemplated. So it's not the

647
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: question of it being too difficult. It's having people around

648
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: you that help you adjust. But do you think fighters

649
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: have changed and how they approached the game in the sport?

650
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: Everybody changes every whether it's baseball players or football players,

651
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: any athletes, any people in business. Everybody is going to

652
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: operate based on what is current, not when it was

653
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: in the past. In the past, we did it one way.

654
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: Now we do it another way. You know. In the past,

655
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: we never had a contract except for FI. They never

656
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: were long term contract. They were loyalty and people stayed

657
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: with you or didn't stay with you. But it wasn't

658
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: that they were tied to a promotional contracts say. Now

659
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: it's all different now, so you have to adjust when

660
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: you do long term contracts too, of course, but it's now.

661
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: I didn't do before and didn't do them before. I

662
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: never had a contract that was more than one or

663
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: two fights before in the eighties and the set I

664
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: never had. Marvin had a long term contract, or Ray

665
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: or Tommy or Duran. It was one fight or two

666
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: fights and it was just a relationship. Then we got

667
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: into an era where people started doing long term contract

668
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: So if you're going to stay in the business and compete,

669
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: you have to do it as well. Used to drive

670
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: up to New Hampshire right to to me with Marvin.

671
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: Did I mean he's he's been a while now since

672
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: he's passed, but How much did that? How many memories

673
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: did that bring back for you? Well? It does every day,

674
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: I mean all the time. Uh. I have a memorable

675
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: Billy in the office, memorabilia in my house. Uh that

676
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: reminds me of Marvin and the petron Eli brothers uh

677
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: and the great uh uh you know experiences we all

678
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: had together. That was and it was a period of

679
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: my life where I was much younger, so I could

680
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: enjoy it even more than than I can as an

681
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: old guy. Now. One of the great fights that never happened,

682
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: of course, the Sugar Ray Haggler rematch. Is that on

683
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 1: your list of fights you wish you could get done?

684
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: Where does that rank on the list. It doesn't rank

685
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: at all. You know, Marvin was never after after when

686
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: he fort Ray and he thought he won that fight,

687
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: he walked away. He stayed in the gym, he stayed

688
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: in great shape. So people said he was gonna come back.

689
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: But I knew, h Marvin, once he made up his mind,

690
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: there was no going back. So I never uh spent

691
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: any real effort, any effort at all in trying to

692
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: do the rematch because I know it, knew it couldn't happen.

693
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: Ray wanted to do it, but Marvin didn't. Ray definitely

694
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: want to do it, Marvin did not. Um, when you

695
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: think about the future of top rank ten years from now,

696
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: twenty years from now, do you think about it much? No?

697
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: Because I won't be around then, Because as long as

698
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: you know I I I've lasted this long and I

699
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: hope to last a little longer. But when you talk

700
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: about tens when he is from now, how can I

701
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: think in those terms? And whatever happens to top Rank,

702
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: it'll be in good hands. Todd is very capable bowl

703
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: and we have a very very strong staff, so I'm

704
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: sure they'll be fine. But and if they're not, it's

705
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: on them. But you don't think wouldn't you don't want

706
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: it to exist for like the next hundred years? I

707
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: mean that top rank is you you built top Rank? Yeah,

708
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: but I'll be dead. And if you're dead, you know

709
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: you're not aware of what's happening. Come on, believe it,

710
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: like there is no after life. What would you ever

711
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: talk to talked about kind of what he would do

712
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: with the company, you know, on his own er. It's

713
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: up to him. Whatever he wants to do with it,

714
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: he'll do with it, right, that's on his plate um.

715
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: There's been rumors over the years of you selling top

716
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: rank to different people. You've been approached, I'm sure about

717
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: selling top rank? What's it? Why haven't you? Why? Why

718
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: have you you held onto it for as long as

719
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: you have. We couldn't get the multiples that we wanted

720
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: to sell a piece of top rank, and now, thank god,

721
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: we're doing so well thanks to Todd and the young

722
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: staff that we have. We've never been as profitable as

723
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: we are now, and so to buy a piece of

724
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: top rank is very, very expensive now, and there's no

725
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: real incentive for us to sell any part of it

726
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: because what are we gonna do with the money. Do

727
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: you think at all about your legacy in the sport?

728
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: What do you And you don't care about top ranks

729
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: future necessarily, But do you think about kind of how

730
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: his history will remember? You know? No, because I'm not

731
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: gonna be around for my history. Who cares? People do though, Bob?

732
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: They do care, well, some people. A lot of people can, okay,

733
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't. Don't. You don't give it,

734
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: damn that question. Don't give it. Damn. It's something that

735
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: I just don't care about, you know, do I give it.

736
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: Damn if you said, well, people are gonna think really

737
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: ill of you after you're going, yeah, that would trouble me.

738
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: But other than that, why would I even think of legacy?

739
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: And what are they gonna put a statute up in

740
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 1: front of Madus and Square Goden maybe like Giant stadium maybe?

741
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: Or I won't be around then so I can't enjoy

742
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: it something. Um, do you still get it's kind of

743
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: brings it back to the very beginning. But do you

744
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: still kind of even if it's not a fight, get

745
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: excited to go to work to deal with the minutia

746
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: of boxing, which can be painstaking at times. Well, no,

747
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: because I don't deal with the minusha. I mean, I

748
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: really got great people. Now, we got bigger staff than

749
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: we've ever had before. Thank god. We can afford it

750
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 1: because we're doing so well. And uh, I don't really

751
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: deal in the minutia. They wheel me out if they

752
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: want me to do an interview and so forth. They

753
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: consult me about certain fights. But you know it is

754
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: it hard work? No, it's not hard work. That's why

755
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: when people say to me, why don't you retire? I say,

756
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: retire from what? I really not working? Uh, last question

757
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: for you. In the eighties, in the nineties, boxing was

758
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: was king. It was on the cover of Sports Illustrating

759
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: all the time, you were doing network TV shows. Now

760
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: it has become more niche do you see a pathway

761
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: to getting back to where it once was or is

762
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: this kind of where it is and where it's going

763
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: to be. No, it's not. You can't say where it

764
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: is and where it's what's the future. The future will

765
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: be the future eventually. I really believe that it will

766
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: go back to its right foot place. But you gotta

767
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: remember in the in the seventies and the eighties, even

768
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: the nineties, you didn't have the plethora of other sports

769
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: that people were interested in. You know, yeah people. Yeah,

770
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: at particular point in time, we didn't do fights in

771
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: the football season on Monday night because Monday Night was

772
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: such a big Monday Night football. But again, uh, it's

773
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: it's completely different now boxing is competing with so many

774
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:27,959
Speaker 1: different sports, so many different activities. The access to entertainment

775
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: is so much greater. So obviously it's not the same

776
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: uh situation has existed in the seventies and eighties. But

777
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, boxing always UH will be interesting to people.

778
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: Our demographics contrary to a lot of thinking a wonderful

779
00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: In other words, boxing skews much younger now than even UFC.

780
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: People want to you know, if you look at the

781
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: numbers are UH audience on ESPN or ESPN plus is

782
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: much much lower, I mean, age than football, than baseball,

783
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: UH and then even UFC. So we're a valuable commodity

784
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: when we realize that because we can bring in the

785
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: younger people. I guess in the eighties other sports were around,

786
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: the NBA was around, the NFL was around. They have

787
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: grown exponentially over the years. Can you put your finger

788
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: on the reason boxing hasn't grown with it and hasn't

789
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: been able to stay competitive with it? Well, I guess

790
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: there's a lot of reasons. Remember the way it's organized.

791
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: It always comes back to that, right, Like I mean,

792
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: the n b A is all the owners together have

793
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: a league and they can promote the league. In boxing,

794
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: we have a bunch of promoters who generally are in

795
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: each other's throat, and there is not that degree of

796
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: cooperation that you're gonna get with the NBA or the

797
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: NFL where they make sensible network deals selling off part

798
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: of the rights to one network. UH the rest to

799
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: a streaming service. It's it's just different. You can't compare

800
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: the two. Boxing is uh, because of its very nature

801
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: not organize the way team sports are. And I think

802
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: you probably agree. If it was, it would still it

803
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: would be as popular as the NBA. I don't think so.

804
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: I know it's still it's still you still captivated though

805
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: by great fights like they still I know that. But

806
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: but again again, UH, the basketball, you know, a team

807
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: can play UH on a Thursday night and great game

808
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: and you want to see him, and hey, Saturday night,

809
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: you can turn on the television and see him again.

810
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: In boxing, by its very nature, UH, you see a

811
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: great fighter and you're not gonna see him again if

812
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: you're lucky, for another two months. So it's different. Everything

813
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: is different now. Certainly, if boxing had UH been able

814
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: to develop as a uniform monopoly, it would be in

815
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: a lot better shape. But again, there was an anti

816
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: trust law and a trust rule based on how it

817
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: was abused when it was the monopoly with the Madison

818
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: Squire Garden and and Jim Norris, So that's not likely

819
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: ever to happen again. UH. The leagues more or less

820
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: got passes UH by adjusting how they paid salaries and

821
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: so forth, so they were allowed to operate, uh in

822
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: a way that boxing was not. Can we do this

823
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: again before your ninety second birthday? Well that's hope. I

824
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: mean happy. As long as you say nineties second birthday,

825
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: then I know I'll be around for another year at least.

826
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: Appreciate it, Bob, good talk. That's it for this week's episode.

827
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: By thanks to Keith Idec and Bob Barron for joining

828
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: the show. As always, subscribe, rate review this podcast on

829
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I'll see

830
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: you next week.