WEBVTT - ‘Good Night Opy,’ with director Ryan White 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.360 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of My 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:14.640 Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:16.840 My name is Robert Lamb and I just had the 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.639 opportunity to chat with Ryan White, director of the new 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:25.360 documentary Good Night Appy. The film follows Opportunity, the Mars 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:30.280 exploration rover that is affectionately dubbed Oppy by her creators 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.800 and scientists at NASA. Oppy was originally expected to live 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.760 for only ninety days on the red planet, but she 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.199 ultimately explored Mars for nearly fifteen years. The film is 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.879 currently in limited release, so you can catch it in 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.400 select theaters, but it will hit Amazon Prime on November. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.199 This film is is a real joy. You might not 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.840 think you would be into watching a film about a 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:58.680 Mars rover, but it is richly entertaining. It's emotional. I 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:00.320 think you're gonna dig it. I think you're gonna want 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.600 to see it with your family's I'm planning to watch 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.319 it again with my family when it hits Amazon Prime. 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:12.240 So without further ado, let's jump right into the interview. Hi, Ryan, 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.320 thanks for coming on the show. Thank you for having 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.000 me so one question that I just had to ask, 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.440 especially as the documentary was was getting into some of 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.319 the backgrounds on the various individuals involved in the project. 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.840 Were you yourself a space enthusiast as a child? So 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:34.440 I grew up in Georgia, and from my very first 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.840 memories I wanted to be an astronaut um. The cabbage 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.000 patch style factories in Cleveland, Georgia, where my family was 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.720 frequent in a lot and I had the the cabbage 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.880 Patch astronaut version that I went to bed with every night. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.680 My fifth grade social studies project was on the astronaut 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.040 Alan Shepherd, because my dad had met him at a 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.560 golf tournament and gotten his autograph, which I put up 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.880 on a backboard and wrote a paper about him. So 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.760 my dream was to go to space as a little kid, 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.960 and I was probably not surprisingly also a big film nerd, 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.720 space nerd and film nerd, and so I loved movies 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.640 like E T which is still my favorite film, and 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.120 I love The Flight of the Navigator when I was 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.079 a boy in the eighties. Uh. And it's a dream 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.560 that clearly never panned out for me. I never became 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.720 an astronaut um, but I did end up becoming a filmmaker, 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.680 and so one of my favorite parts about my job. 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.760 I'm forty one now and I probably made thirteen or 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:38.600 fourteen films. Uh. The amount of access that I get 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.920 to these incredible journeys that people are on that I 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:46.120 really should have no right to be alongside them for UM, 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.919 to me is one of the coolest parts about my job. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.720 And so I always knew I had a rare job 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.960 that could probably con my way back into that childhood 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.360 dream somehow just by latching onto another story. And I 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.799 was just waiting for the right story, and this one 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.040 dropped into my lap. I'll never forget the date. It was, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:10.160 March twelve, UM, and I had a dinner in Los 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.400 Angeles with Some forty five, which is Pete Burgh's company, 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.000 and Ambling Entertainment, which I think most people know is 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:21.400 Steven Spielberg's company, and made e t which is prominently 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.040 put put on my poster right now for Goodnight Oppy, 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.680 which I'm still pinching myself. And they pitched me at 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.400 that dinner this idea for this film, and I've been 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.560 waiting for the space story that I felt like checked 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.560 all the boxes for what I love to make in documentaries, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.760 and I felt like, immediately this is this is the one. So, 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:42.920 so what aren't those boxes that that it kind of 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.440 checked off for you, Like, how do you how do 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.800 you see good Night Oppy matching up with some of 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.920 the characteristics of your your previous documentaries. Yeah, it's a 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.960 good question because I think people look at the subject 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:01.680 matters of my documentaries and they are all over the place. Um. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.480 And so that is one of the things I also 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.760 love about my job is I call it career a 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.320 d D. We get to pivot very quickly from one 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.920 subject matter to another, but you get to spend you know, 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.640 two or three years doing a deep dive into something 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.080 that you're you know, deeply interested in, um, which I've 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.800 done on many of my films. But all of my 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.040 films have a through line in the sense that they're 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.640 all very character driven UM. And I'm always interested in 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.240 characters that are in a crucial place in their lives 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.279 where they are going through something remarkable, and sometimes that 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.280 remarkable can be something quite dark and heavy, and sometimes 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:47.160 that remarkable can be something quite joyful. UM. And many 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.240 times I've made films that involve both. I made a 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.400 film about Serena Williams where it was the highest of 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.520 highs the year I was following her and then it 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.800 dropped out at the lowest of lows. UM. But I 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.919 like to bear witness to those types of journeys. UM. 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.799 And so while APPI is my first non human star 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:09.240 of a documentary, UM, I felt like it was character driven, 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.200 just like all of my previous films. Of course in 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:17.080 the way that the robots are personified, but especially in 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.080 the way that the robots are actually just extensions of 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.120 the human characters themselves. So I feel like, you know, 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.960 Opportunity is nothing but a box of wires without these 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.520 human beings that are infusing this, um, this emotion and 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:35.719 feeling into her journey. UM. And So it might it 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.680 might on face values seem a little bit more inverse 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.760 um from what my other films have done, but I 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.360 still approached it as a character based film and a 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.919 character on a journey that will have a beginning, middle, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.400 and end. Yeah, there's such an animated cast of interviewees 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.080 in this, uh, some great characters. UM. I imagine some 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.120 viewers might be surprised by. But like, when when you 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.080 were going into it, did you have certain expectations about, um, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.320 about what the the human stories would be in this 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.600 and how did you react to that as a as 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:17.839 as a director, I was very guilty of preconceived notions 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:22.520 about scientists and engineers, So I just assumed that our 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:27.120 biggest challenge would be finding compelling human being characters. I 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:33.480 thought scientists and engineers might be very academic, somewhat dry. Um. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:37.520 I assumed that they would be unemotionally detached from their work. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.040 And what I thought was going to be our biggest 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.040 challenge ended up being the complete opposite. The biggest challenge 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.440 in the end was how do we limit the amount 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.800 of human being characters that we include in this film? 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.880 Because this is a team of thousands of people that 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.080 work on these robots in some way throughout their lifetimes, 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.279 and we only have eleven human beings in our film. 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:04.479 And that's because we found that everyone that we talked 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.440 to had some sort of emotional bond with these rovers 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.080 or some sort of emotional anecdote or the way that 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.560 they related to these rovers, or they related them to 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:20.000 people or pets in their lives, and everyone had an 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:24.000 incredible backstory, which I truly believe, like everybody has a backstory. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.240 That's sort of always my entry point into documentaries, and 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.720 this just was an embarrassment of riches when it came 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.920 to backstories that that we're compelling, and so you know, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.240 we'll never be able to do this full team justice. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.440 I have to be okay with that. Um. And you know, 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.360 you could have made Goodnight OPI with eleven other human 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.600 characters and it probably would have been a great film 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:46.239 as well. And then you could make it with another 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.560 eleven characters and it would be great. They would all 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.800 be different permutations, I think. Um. We were very conscious 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:58.000 of finding not only great storytellers with great backstories, but 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:03.320 also finding people where audiences because we really want this 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.640 to be a broad audience. We want families to be 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.320 able to watch this film together and worldwide. Uh. We 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.520 were very conscious of finding people where a young person 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.720 out there somewhere in the world might see themselves represented 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.000 on screen. So if you are a boy in Africa 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.880 or a young woman in India and you might think 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.720 planetary exploration is not a career for you, and then 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.800 you see, you know, two engineers from one from Ghana 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.600 and one from India who are rover drivers, Um, you 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.439 might think, why can't that be me? Awesome? Yeah, yeah, 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.840 I thought it was a very relatable film. I'm looking 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.640 forward to to watching it again with my family when 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.079 it when it comes out on Prime. Thank you. Yeah, 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:47.920 I hope, I hope a lot of families will do that. 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.319 And it's coming out, you know, the day before Thanksgiving, 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.480 and I think that's not just a random date pick. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.720 That's in hopes that people will be home and watching 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.439 things on Prime and might do you know, co viewing 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:09.240 with their familes. Now, the opportunity Rover is of course 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.160 very relatable and and this is this is laid out 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.800 perfectly and in the documentary. You know, it has eyes, 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.200 it's roughly human high, it has a face, and all 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.120 of the individuals who talked to or many of them, 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:25.040 have formed these connections with it and end up anthropomorphizing 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.040 it to some extent. Um I wondered too, is when 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.760 you first went into the project, did you have sort 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:36.040 of expectations about to what level you would the film 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:40.760 would anthropomorphize OPPI And then did that change during the 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.920 course of the production we went through. So we, like 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.079 I said, the first dinner about this film was March twelve. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.120 So the next morning is when we got an email 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.640 in Los Angeles at least saying you can't leave your 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.000 homes Um and so this film all booted up in 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.600 the summer spring and summer of and so the process 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:04.960 begin in with dozens of pre interviews, and my producing 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.880 partners Jessica Hargrave and Grace oath Out did those because 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.800 I don't like to interview people twice, right, Like you 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.240 don't want someone coming on camera and then feeling like 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.800 they already told you the story and they're repeating themselves. 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.600 So jess and Grace would have these three or four 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.719 hour long conversations with these people who played some role 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.360 in the rovers lives, and every time they would send 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.719 me an email with the Zoom file, and Zoom was 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.280 brand new at that time, saying like, oh my god, 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.480 this person was so emotional or so incredibly connected with 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.120 the robots. So once we started watching these people tell 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.520 these stories, uh, I knew that we had something special 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:48.360 and something different than what than what I had um expected. 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.560 And I think one of the really fascinating parts is 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.040 this was a mission that was supposed to last for 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.400 ninety days, so you are prepared for a very short 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.240 life in and yes, you know they will speak about 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.600 being bonded to the Rovers by the time they left 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.559 Earth and it's like seeing a kid off to college. 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.600 And I think that's one of the more emotional scenes 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.280 in my film is watching them and both launch. But 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:17.200 when you think your creature is going to survive ninety days, Max, 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.520 I think you, uh, you limit the amount that you're 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.440 willing to fall for that creature. You know that the 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.680 warranty is going to expire soon. But when that creature 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.240 exponentially outlast the odds and opportunities case that was sixty 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.559 times the lifespan that was expected. So instead of ninety days, 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.160 they reach year one, year two, year three. Both of 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.600 them reach that long, that emotional broun grows even more 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.880 and more and more, and you start wondering, which we 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:48.720 go into the film like whether that lifespan could be 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:54.040 an could be infinity because the the death of these 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.360 rovers everyone thought would be because of the sun, because 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.240 their solar powered and there's so much dust on ours 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.160 that a built up of dust would prevent the solar 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.600 panels from reaching the Sun at some point, and then 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.520 they had this phenomenon of dust devils would pass by 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.280 which they were terrified of, which ended up acting as 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.600 like like car washes for the rovers. And so then 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.560 these people started wondering if these rovers could live forever, 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.319 and then of course that emotional bond grows even more. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.720 It's like your children that you hope out last to you. Uh. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.840 And so when the time comes that Mars finally delivers 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:34.440 its final blow to both spirit and opportunity, it's it's 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.160 like a grief process that these people had to go through, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.240 and they don't get the time at Nassas to grief 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.640 the way you do the death of a human or 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.000 maybe even a pet. Here you move on to the 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.320 next mission the next day. You don't take days off, 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.040 and so they didn't get the time um to grieve. 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.920 And suddenly they have a documentary filmmaker knocking on their 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.400 door saying, I want to know all about two daughters 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.720 that went to Mars. And so I think in a 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.959 lot of ways it was cathartic for them to get 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.800 to talk about this mission, and that's where a lot 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.160 of that emotion comes from in my film. I'm very 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.640 surprised I didn't. It's not like I intended to make 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.760 a huge tear jerker. We never had those conversations in 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.000 the edit room, I guarantee you, of like, when can 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.480 we make people cry? I'm very surprised with audiences right 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.760 now how many tears there are. But I think there's 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.280 there's something about these rovers that just does something to 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.400 people's hearts. Um and seeing the emotional journey that the 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:40.000 human beings were on as well through them. Now. Blake 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.319 Neely's score is really great in this and uh and 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:48.600 I also really loved the way the film ultimately takes 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.760 the wake up song tradition and and weave that into 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.440 the soundtrack. How did all of this come together? Well, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.520 Blake is my longtime collaborator, ten years every film he's 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.720 worked on with me, and I feel very lucky because 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.680 until recently I was only his only documentary filmmaker. He's 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.200 mostly done scripted television and film, and just this past 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.800 year he cheated on me with another documentary filmmaker, but 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.040 she's a good friend of mine, so I've forgiven them both. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.800 But I feel very lucky that he has my My 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.040 projects are kind of his side passion projects, and he's 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.960 very protective of them, and he writes them all himself, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.040 and he works on them from the moment i'm pitching 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.160 him an idea, you know, we don't wait until the 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.160 edit or picture lock especially until finishing. To start writing music, 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.840 we start at the beginning, especially on this film, because 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.040 Blake is very similar to me, and that he grew 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.280 up as a kid in Texas wanting to be an 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.240 astronaut and loves space films, and so I knew that 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.200 this would be appealing to him. But good Night at Being, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.480 more than any of my films that I've ever made, 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:58.040 really is a tapestry of sounds. So blake score is 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.520 very um cinemat Dick. It's a bigger score than what 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.240 we normally right had a sixty something person orchestra, which 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.280 you don't typically have on a documentary. We had the 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.520 wake up song, so every every morning, the rovers woken 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.320 up with a song that Mission Control on Earth plays. Um. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.720 It's sort of like a fun tradition that derived from 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.080 human space flight when astronauts would be open up, that 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.000 would be woken up that way, And so we were 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.200 able to we have seven songs in the film that 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.240 we're played during certain critical moments in the robots lives 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.960 to wake them up or to try to save their lives. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.760 And then the third component of that tapestry is the 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.720 sound design throughout our film, where we had Mark Mangini, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.880 who is a legendary sound designer. He won Oscars for 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.840 mad Max, Fury Road and for Done, and he was 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.440 doing the sound on this film in a way that 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.640 was like completely rooted in authenticity, Like he was recording 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.000 the real replicas of these robots at the Jet propulsion 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.080 and laboratory, and he was using real recordings that the 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.240 current Rover perseverance was audio recordings that she was sending 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.960 down from Mars of what Mars sounds like. It was 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.760 the first time we were hearing. And so it was 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:17.040 a real dance between those three things. Blake scored these 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:21.720 super famous wake up songs and then Mark Manginie's really 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:27.120 authentic sound design and I've never worked this long on 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.880 sound in one of my films. And the other big 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.240 component of that is Angela Bassett. So she she ends 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.960 up reading what are called the Rover Diaries, which are 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.120 a daily account that a human being would write that 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.960 are written, you know, in present tense, first person, as 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.880 a crisis or major discovery is going down. And so 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.400 we were incorporating her voice as well as part of 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:58.600 that tapestry. And Mark Mangini actually recorded angela different than 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.560 how we recorded everyone else in the documentary. So Angela 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.520 when she recorded her her voiceover, had microphones all around 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.919 her from three sixty degrees. So when you watch our 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.959 film in a theater, Angela's coming from everywhere. She's like 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.919 the voice inside of us. That's always what I wanted 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:19.400 her role to be. She was this maternal figure that 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.200 cared deeply for the robots and collectively was playing the 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:28.760 voice of Nasa. So for as far as my previous films, 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.800 this was by far the biggest sound design. But I 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.199 have to say one of the most fun parts of 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:37.359 making this film was getting to spend so much time 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.240 trying to nail down the perfect sound tapestry. Wow and uh. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.639 And on the visual end of the spectrum, Uh, the 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.960 effects are are wonderful in this their atmospheric but also 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:51.200 thrilling and educational, uh, you know, showing up, especially when 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.200 we're dealing with like the different phases of of reaching Mars, 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.600 deploying to the surface, etcetera. And this was industrial light 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.600 and magic. Yes, what was that like? Working with with 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.240 I L. M oh Man, it was a dream come true. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.679 I was not only working with Ambulance and Mark Manginie 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.640 and Angela Bassett, but I was working with the best 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.160 in the business when it comes to visual effects, and 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:19.880 of course very few documentaries need visual effects of that caliber. 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.600 But the vision for this film from the beginning was 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.760 to swing big. So the motto for the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:32.119 which is the hub of NASA's Mars mission program, is 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.280 dare Mighty Things UM. And I always love that motto 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.600 from the very beginning, because these are people that aren't 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.280 taking their swinging for the bleachers with these missions, and 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.359 when they fail, they failed publicly, they fail hard, which 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.080 the two missions right before this one had done UM 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.400 and so they were sort of a laughing stock, and 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.040 they're told that these things that they want to achieve 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.320 are impossible, and then they figure out a way to 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.439 prove that wrong. And I felt like, if we're going 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:06.159 to make a film about these incredible innovators, that we 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.199 need to be innovative our ourselves in the film and 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.639 not make such a traditional educational doc. You know, we 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.959 have amazing archival from NASA in the film, but I 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.879 wanted to weave that together with the journey of the robots, 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.520 and my vision from the very beginning was saying, can 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.359 we take the audience to Mars, and not in a 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.320 cartoon way, in a photo real way, like can we 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:34.600 feel like I was there with my camera crew shooting 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:40.080 on Mars because we know exactly what Mars looks like, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.600 that it is not a mystery anymore. Because of opportunity 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.640 and spirit. They both had nine cameras on them, they 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.720 took hundreds of thousands of photographs. We know what every 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.280 hour of their journey looked like around them. So we 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.400 gave those hundreds of thousands of photographs and a ton 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.600 of data that NASA supplied to US um to Industrial 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.000 Light Magic and you know, normally people are going to 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.399 Industrial Light and magic and saying we're hiring you for 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:08.720 your imagination, like what's what's your creation gonna be? And 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.200 I was coming to them from the complete opposite direction, saying, please, 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:16.240 don't use your imagination at all, Please use all your 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:21.240 technical skills and are you capable of this? Because I 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:22.800 remember saying to them like, if this is going to 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.159 look like a cartoon, we should not go down this path. 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.080 And they said, we've never done it before, but we 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.000 would love to try building Mars from the ground up, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.840 and that is an incredibly laborious process. Creating those types 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.399 of visual effects. It took years. Um, but I have 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.560 to say the biggest compliments visually to our film have 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:47.520 been having theatrical screenings with the scientists and engineers who 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:52.040 spend every day on Mars through their avatars, these robots, saying, 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.240 we never thought this could look that real in video, 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.920 like it feels like we're there. So they really knocked 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:00.960 it out of the park. And I'm so grateful for 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.000 them because I know I drove them insane as a 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.240 documentary filmmaker. They are not used to working with people 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.600 like me who are such sticklers for accuracy, but they 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.960 really rose to the challenge and then some wow, yeah, 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:25.600 well the results are amazing. So a couple of couple 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.320 of final questions here. Um. First of all, you mentioned 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.240 earlier growing up in some of the sort of space 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:35.120 and sci fi films that that inspired you. But as 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.400 as your career took you into the realm of documentaries, 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:43.399 were there particular documentaries or particular documentary directors that inspired 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.960 you or continue to inspire you the most? Oh man, 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.119 I could go on all day long about this, um, 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:53.879 but absolutely, and you know there are filmmakers that inspire me, 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:58.239 that make completely different types of films than me. You know, 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.000 we we go on this Fall Fest Civil tour and 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.040 I'm with. What I love about the doc community is 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.880 like your heroes are right there. It's not that hard 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.640 to meet your heroes once you're in that world. And 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:14.359 your heroes are kind, generous people who are excited if 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.600 you're excited about their films. Because we've never been the 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.439 most popular kid in the class from um, you know, 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.920 documentaries have always been relegated to a sideline, and so 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.359 you know, I've I've gotten to meet my heroes repeatedly. 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.119 I was on a panel the other day next to 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.960 Laura Poittress. I think she's one of the best documentary 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:36.439 filmmakers ever. Steve James, Frederick Wiseman, Da Penna Baker I 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:40.359 got to know before he passed away. Agnes Varda is 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:44.720 the reason I'm a documentary filmmaker because I saw her movie. 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:46.639 I didn't even know what a documentary was when I 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.000 was entering college and I saw one of her movies 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.440 in a movie theater for extra credit in a class 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.200 and thought, like, what is she doing? But I want 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.480 to find out what that format is. And I, you know, 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.879 maybe ten years later, fifteen years later. Got to tell 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.480 Agnes Varda that at a brunch. Um, And so I'm 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:10.120 continually inspired by you know, and we're friends, so we 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.720 we all go off on these crazy ventures. You know, 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.200 Margaret Brown, who made Descendant this year, is a very 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.280 good friend. Matthew Hyneman, who made Retrograde, is a very 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:20.800 good friend. I didn't even know Matthew was making a 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:24.040 film in Afghanistan. Um. You know, we're friends, but we 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.120 don't get to see each other all the time. So 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:29.560