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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports. The world changing and

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Speaker 1: what are the things we can do to transform our

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Speaker 1: business and engage our fans globally in different ways, people

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Speaker 1: are using their name and likeness to create more opportunities,

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Speaker 1: more stakes and companies. In order to turn the organization around,

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Speaker 1: we had to turn it around not only just on

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Speaker 1: baseball operations side, but other business operations side well and

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Speaker 1: any other sport is very difficult, but I like to

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Speaker 1: blog my horizons and be able to expand. Sports need

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Speaker 1: to be consumed a lot and not to the big

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Speaker 1: competitive advantage for intual property holders of sports content in

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Speaker 1: the media landscape. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Jason Kelly, and I'm Mike Lynch and

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Speaker 1: I'm Michael bar Over the next hour, we will explore

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Speaker 1: the big money issues in the world of sports and

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Speaker 1: to talk to you some of the big displayers in

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Speaker 1: the industry. Before we get to that, in our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Notre Dame Athletics director Jack Swarbrick, Guys, let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little college football and pro football. Starting on the

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Speaker 1: college gridiron. In a season of chaos, the Crimson Tide

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Speaker 1: or the conference constant excellence, pare them a bloodge into

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Speaker 1: the black eyes, and Sabin steps past Paul Bryant with

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Speaker 1: his seventh national championship. And so that is how the long,

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Speaker 1: maybe short, strange season that was last year in college

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Speaker 1: football ended. Now this weekend it starts all over again.

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Speaker 1: The game I'm looking at, guys, is definitely Clemson Georgia,

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine. Uh, that really kicks it off

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Speaker 1: with a bang. It does feel like we are in

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Speaker 1: lynchy a season that will be like none other and

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Speaker 1: almost having very little to do with post COVID or

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Speaker 1: current COVID and more with an I l a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of existential questions around college sports realignment and much more. Well,

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Speaker 1: you think about it, the conversation we had a year ago,

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Speaker 1: will they play? Won't they play? The Pac ten said no,

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Speaker 1: then they said yes, and the same thing with the

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Speaker 1: Big Ten, And now we're not even concerned about people

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Speaker 1: sitting in the seats, name, image and likeness. Is it

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Speaker 1: going to be a divisive factor in locker rooms where

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks making eight hundred thousand and an offensive linement is

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Speaker 1: making absolutely nothing. Will it be a little resentment and

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Speaker 1: jealousy there will be there some o a blocks for

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Speaker 1: that quarterback was making so much money, and now we've

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Speaker 1: got all these Oklahoma and Texas coming to the Southeast Conference.

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Speaker 1: Will they get booed every time? They probably will every

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Speaker 1: time they take the field in a Big twelve game

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Speaker 1: when they're on the road. Absolutely positively. But I'm excited

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Speaker 1: about it too. You got your Georgia Bulldogs. My sister

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Speaker 1: played tennis at Clemson. We're on baby. Yeah, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a great game, and it's going to

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Speaker 1: determine a lot of what happens uh in both of

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Speaker 1: those big conferences down south. Obviously the Big Ten will

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Speaker 1: be playing as well. Michael Barr, you've been a big

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Speaker 1: proponent on this show of make your money while you can.

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Speaker 1: Now you've got college athletes who are going to do

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Speaker 1: just that. What do you were about? I've said this

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Speaker 1: before and and I hope it never comes to light

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Speaker 1: in a story. I worry about college athletes now when

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Speaker 1: you dangle all that money out there that you get

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Speaker 1: and get some unsavory character out there who's gonna try

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Speaker 1: to get to somebody and say, hey, you know, okay,

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Speaker 1: you can win the game, but you don't have to

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Speaker 1: cover this spread, so you know, just just you know,

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Speaker 1: do something a little errant out there. I worry about that,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna remain naive because you know, I believe

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Speaker 1: in sports, and I believe in in definitely in college sports,

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Speaker 1: and something else is gonna happen this weekend. We got

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Speaker 1: some dear friends who are coming over to the house

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Speaker 1: to spend the weekend with us, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: bug the daylights out of them, because you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be betting the moment they start kicking off and

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Speaker 1: the questions are gonna be asked, Hey, Frank, listen, how

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Speaker 1: much you want to put on this game? All right? Frank? Okay,

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Speaker 1: don't don't tell the wives how much we put on this.

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Speaker 1: It's like, no, baby, I don't want any We're gonna

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Speaker 1: keep going on like this for the whole weekend. And

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Speaker 1: I apologize to my dear friends right now, but listen,

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Speaker 1: betting in college sports for at home and people online,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be a big weekend. Does the

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Speaker 1: cable TV work? Does the internet work? Bars Happing, just

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Speaker 1: keep the chips coming and don't talk to him, especially

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Speaker 1: if he's on whatever the opposite of a heater is

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Speaker 1: when it comes to uh if he hits that cold streak.

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Speaker 1: Al Right, So, Lenchy, one thing you have been watching

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Speaker 1: very closely, and I want you to break it down

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Speaker 1: for us is something that's happening in the NFL, and

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Speaker 1: that is unfortunately related to very little having to do

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Speaker 1: with the actual game and more of having to do

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Speaker 1: with a massive natural disaster that has hit a big

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Speaker 1: part of the country, by the way, including New York City,

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Speaker 1: which suffered some flash flooding like we've literally never seen

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Speaker 1: here before. But in Louisiana sixteen years almost to the

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Speaker 1: day after Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Ida, UH just laid waste

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Speaker 1: to New Orleans that obviously has an effect on their

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Speaker 1: pro football team. Help us understand what's going on, Well,

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Speaker 1: remember that the fifteen years ago they planned to play

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Speaker 1: their home games in San Antonio and some games in

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Speaker 1: Baton Rouge. We're talking about the New Orleans Saints who

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Speaker 1: have been training in Dallas right now. So they're playing

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Speaker 1: their big game against the Green Bay Packers, and it's

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Speaker 1: going to be the national game for Fox at in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon, so they need to find a place to play. Well,

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Speaker 1: they can't play in a T and T Stadium in

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Speaker 1: Dallas because there's a concert. So they started looking geographically

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Speaker 1: to some place that might be closer, and they decided

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Speaker 1: that Florida would be the place to go. All three

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Speaker 1: stadiums are available, Tampa Bay stadiums available, Jacksonville Stadium, and

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Speaker 1: the Dolphins Stadium. Well, they're thinking now about trying to

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Speaker 1: have a home field advantage, and they don't want Packer

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Speaker 1: fans who travel as well as any group of National

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Speaker 1: Football League fans. They don't want it to turn into

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Speaker 1: a home field advantage for the Packers. So they looked

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Speaker 1: at Miami and they said, nah, people from Wisconsin are

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Speaker 1: coming down and they'll say treated as a big weekend

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Speaker 1: in the sun, So we're not going to play there.

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Speaker 1: Then they said, let's play at Tampa Bay. But Tampa

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Speaker 1: Bay is an NFC South rival, and the Tampa Bay

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Speaker 1: fans may just come to the game to cheer for

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Speaker 1: the Packers and it would feel like a road game

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Speaker 1: for the New Orleans Saints. So they had one of

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Speaker 1: their staffers actually go on Expedia and find the most

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Speaker 1: difficult and the most costly stadium to travel to so

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Speaker 1: give the Saints the home field advantage. I'm not lying

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Speaker 1: about this, And it turns out to be the stadium

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Speaker 1: t i A Bank Stadium in Jacksonville, and that's how

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Speaker 1: they wound up playing in Jacksonville against the Packers on

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Speaker 1: Sunday afternoon at four, and the game is going to

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Speaker 1: remain on Fox. The Saints are not selling any tickets

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Speaker 1: to this game. They have told fans do not call us,

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Speaker 1: call the Jacksonville ticket office, or go line at ticket Master.

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Speaker 1: So they're sort of wiping their hands of this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: And another big loser of this might be Caesar's Entertainment,

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Speaker 1: which a month ago bought the naming rights to the Superdome.

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Speaker 1: It used to be the Mercedes Been Superdome, it's now

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Speaker 1: the Caesar's Superdome. It's a hundred and thirty eight million

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Speaker 1: dollar deal over twenty years. And what great exposure they

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Speaker 1: would get on a national game. They lose all that

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Speaker 1: exposure and one game of exposure that they've paid for.

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Speaker 1: So that's the story on how the game became to

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Speaker 1: play in Jacksonville. Well, all I'll say is that is

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Speaker 1: like Moneyball five point Oh. I mean, that is just incredible.

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Speaker 1: And I hope whatever, and I'm guessing it was like

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Speaker 1: a young enterprising kid inside that organization came up with

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Speaker 1: that brilliant give that kid about us. That's amazing. That's amazing,

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Speaker 1: and totally when you hear when you hear it broken down,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense. Um. But you know, now you sort

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Speaker 1: of think if and these your Midwestern people bar that,

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Speaker 1: if they hear this story or they read about it,

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Speaker 1: they'll be like, that's it. We're getting in the car.

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Speaker 1: We're going to Jacksonville. We're going. We're going right now. Well,

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Speaker 1: you remember several years ago in Minneapolis when their dome

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Speaker 1: they had so much snow on the dome the whole

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Speaker 1: thing caved in, so they had to play a home game.

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Speaker 1: So then they came to Detroit because we all know

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Speaker 1: it's very sunny in the wintertime in Detroit, and and

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Speaker 1: it worked. Uh. But I was thinking at that time,

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Speaker 1: which I'm thinking about this too, is well, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I'm a Minnesota fan, it's not that far really

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Speaker 1: to drive to Detroit. I mean, you got a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a hike, but I can get there. So

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if the Saints folks, the fans and and

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Speaker 1: God bless, I hope everything is okay with them from Ida,

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Speaker 1: and if some of the st fans want to get there,

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Speaker 1: can they make that drive. Yeah, it's a long drive.

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Speaker 1: It's a straight I mean the good news is I

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Speaker 1: know that area the country pretty well. It is a

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Speaker 1: very straight shot. Literally ten all that you get on

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Speaker 1: I ten, turn left to point east and then stop

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Speaker 1: before you stop when you get to the Atlantic Ocean

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Speaker 1: is where Jacksonville is. Um not a short drive. And

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Speaker 1: obviously the folks down in New Orleans have have other

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Speaker 1: things to worry about, except that they do worry a

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Speaker 1: lot about their saints. And uh, I mean, Leggie, I

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Speaker 1: am glad to hear you talk about how they looked

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Speaker 1: at the numbers because it's where I thought you were headed.

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Speaker 1: Was basically there was a discussion inside the organization. They

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Speaker 1: were like, what's the place people least want ago. Well,

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Speaker 1: you can blame it on expedient because this staffer found

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Speaker 1: that there were more connections to get to Jacksonville from

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Speaker 1: points in Wisconsin than it worked for any other stadium

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Speaker 1: in the entire country. Is specifically for the three Florida stadiums. Parking,

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Speaker 1: by the way, is only thirty dollars down there. If

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Speaker 1: you can actually make it. But think of the money

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Speaker 1: that New Orleans is losing in terms of merchandise and concessions,

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Speaker 1: ticket sales, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah, yeah, and it's a good

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Speaker 1: point about Caesar's as well, because that is not cheap

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Speaker 1: to get your naming rights on on the Superdome are

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Speaker 1: arguably one of the most famous stadiums in all the

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Speaker 1: world and certainly in the United States. But the net

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Speaker 1: effect is football. It's back college pro, all of it,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna get into that in a big way,

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Speaker 1: not just football, but the business of college sports. All right.

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Speaker 1: It's a special sound of special song and very appropriate

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Speaker 1: for this edition of Bloomberg Businesses Sports. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. We're here each and every week for

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Speaker 1: you at the same time talking to the biggest names

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Speaker 1: in sports. I'm Jason Kelly alongside Mike Clinch and Michael

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Speaker 1: Barr today thrilled to be joined by Notre Dame Athletics

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Speaker 1: director Jack Swarbork. Jack. Really nice to have you with us. Hey,

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Speaker 1: it's great to be with you. Thanks for thanks for

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Speaker 1: inviting me to join you. Well, we're happy to have

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Speaker 1: you and of course, as most of our listeners know,

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Speaker 1: in the New York area. You can hear Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: foot ball all season long on Bloomberg eleven three out

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Speaker 1: in New York. Uh. So let's talk about football to start.

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Speaker 1: We want to talk about lots of different sports, but

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Speaker 1: let's start with football. The season is upon us, a

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Speaker 1: very different year here in I don't want to dwell

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Speaker 1: too much on the past, but your decision to play

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Speaker 1: last year was catalytic. I think it's fair to say

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Speaker 1: in in many ways tell us about that decision and

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Speaker 1: how it sort of evolves into where we are today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I do think it was catalytic. I think

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Speaker 1: fate delivered us uh in terms of timing with the

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Speaker 1: Pack twelve and the Big Tent having decided at that

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Speaker 1: point not to play where I think our decision was

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Speaker 1: critical as to whether the rest of football went forward.

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Speaker 1: And the primary dynamic for us was we had made

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Speaker 1: a decision, really courageous one by the university president to

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Speaker 1: come back to campus, to be residential, uh, to not

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Speaker 1: educate our students virtually, and that sort of gave me

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Speaker 1: my marching orders. Okay, can we safely play football if

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Speaker 1: we're coming back to the classroom and the residence hall.

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Speaker 1: We should be able to come back to the football stadium,

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Speaker 1: and we we did a lot of research, talked to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, convinced ourselves we could both from

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Speaker 1: the respective of the student athletes, but also allowing students,

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Speaker 1: faculty and staff. Those were only fans to come into

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Speaker 1: the stadium to watch the game. They were together all week.

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Speaker 1: They should be able to come into the stadium. So

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Speaker 1: it was a great atmosphere for us and and and

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Speaker 1: was a rallying point for the campus. Which brings me

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Speaker 1: to the next question, what will football look like with

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Speaker 1: fan protocols? Because of what happened with COVID last year?

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Speaker 1: What are we going to see this year? And it's

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Speaker 1: a great question. Uh. In some ways, this year's I

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Speaker 1: think can approve a little harder because it's more fluid.

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Speaker 1: Last year we went into the season sort of knowing

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Speaker 1: some places no fans, some places didn't play. As I said,

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Speaker 1: in our case, we're rolling introduced students, faculty, and staff.

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Speaker 1: This year. You've got a bunch of different models out there.

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Speaker 1: You've got some places which are requiring proof of vaccination

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Speaker 1: or negative tests. Uh, different mask wearing standards, different capacity approaches,

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Speaker 1: and I think what's going to define this year is

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Speaker 1: I think that will get revisited throughout the year, and

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Speaker 1: we'll never quite have the certainty, uh that we had

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Speaker 1: last year. I do think we'll have more fans, will

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Speaker 1: have more energy and more excitement, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: going to be very fluid. Last year, you had a

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Speaker 1: one year experiment in the A c C. Did that

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Speaker 1: help fund the other sports that you were trying to

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Speaker 1: keep afloat during all the covid um? From a financial perspective,

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Speaker 1: it was it didn't have much. It didn't have much

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Speaker 1: consequence for us. The significance of it was that through

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Speaker 1: that we were had assurance that we could play a

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Speaker 1: full schedule and by virtue of that, meet our obligations

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Speaker 1: to NBC. And so the NBC media contract was really

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Speaker 1: our only source of revenue last year because our gate

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Speaker 1: receipts were largely non existent, and so Jack expand for

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Speaker 1: us into the other sports. I'm the father of a

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Speaker 1: college lacrosse player, not at Notre Dame, but uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: you've got a great lacrosse team, you know, baseball, women's basketball,

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Speaker 1: you know, across the board, athletics are so baked in

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Speaker 1: well beyond um the football team, help us understand how

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Speaker 1: you made decisions along the way throughout the course of

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Speaker 1: last year, especially at a time when other schools were saying,

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Speaker 1: we just can't afford to play certain Division one sports. Well,

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Speaker 1: a real threshold standard for us is that we view

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Speaker 1: all seven hundred of our student athletes as comparable and

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Speaker 1: we want their experience to be as close to the

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Speaker 1: same as we can make it. So we didn't make

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Speaker 1: a decision like a lot of universities did to play football.

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Speaker 1: We made a decision to play all our sports. And

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Speaker 1: and if if, if, if we weren't convinced we could

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Speaker 1: play the others, we wouldn't have played football, because that's

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Speaker 1: our obligation. And so that that really drove it. And

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the fascinating things about last year,

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Speaker 1: as we've all learned so much, is we didn't see

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Speaker 1: any transmission of the virus through the activity of playing

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Speaker 1: the games. UM. We we we we could trace it

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Speaker 1: to meals, we could trace it to some locker room activity,

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Speaker 1: but literally didn't you know, and you think of sports

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Speaker 1: like football and and lacrosse and hockey. UM, no evidence

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Speaker 1: that we transmitted the virus by playing the sport. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that Notre Dame has is a very

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Speaker 1: special marriage with NBC. And when I think of the two,

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Speaker 1: it just goes together when I think of college sports

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Speaker 1: and watching it on TV. How did that whole marriage

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Speaker 1: come together and a special relationship with the network? UM? Well,

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Speaker 1: and it was the result of a Supreme Court decision

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Speaker 1: where UH an antitrust case that said the n c

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Speaker 1: A could not represent the rights of all colleges and

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Speaker 1: universities UM, and so it freed up those rights. UM.

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Speaker 1: That then caused UH colleges universities to pursue those rights

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Speaker 1: on a conference basis. We had an opportunity as an

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Speaker 1: independent to think about it differently, and some really creative

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Speaker 1: people are athletic director Dick Rosenthal, Ken Shanzer and Tick

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Speaker 1: ver Sawid NBC UM had a conversation and it I

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Speaker 1: know from especially Ken Shans are relaying that experience. It.

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Speaker 1: It happened very quickly once the conversation started. All right,

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Speaker 1: So Jack, Meanwhile, in college sports, name, image and likeness,

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Speaker 1: the whole business model in some ways of college sports

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Speaker 1: is now facing talk about catalytic moments a really interesting time.

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Speaker 1: How do you unpack this? I mean, you're trained as

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, you practice law for a number of times,

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Speaker 1: you've worked across sports. How do you attack something like this? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think I could make a case, and a

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Speaker 1: pretty good one, that there's no industry in the country

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Speaker 1: that has undergone or is undergoing more change in college

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Speaker 1: athletics at moment. And I and I ll as part

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Speaker 1: of that, the Supreme Court decision which related to additional

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Speaker 1: educational benefits UM realignment, UM. The list just goes on

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Speaker 1: and on. The n c A s um conclusion that

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Speaker 1: it can't govern in its current model UM. And so

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly unsettled, and and you have to just try

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Speaker 1: and make the best decisions you can, but understand that

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Speaker 1: it's going to continue to evolve. Name, image and likeness.

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Speaker 1: We embraced h five years ago now. Our president, Father Jenkins,

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Speaker 1: gave an interview to The New York Times in which

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Speaker 1: he said Notre Dame supports the notion of granting name,

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Speaker 1: image and likeness rights because all our other students have it,

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Speaker 1: why shouldn't our student athletes, and so we have always

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Speaker 1: embraced it. UM. The problem we encounter now as we

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Speaker 1: implement it is there no rules and so the n

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Speaker 1: c A didn't adopt legislation. UM Congress considered legislation but

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Speaker 1: didn't pass it. And so we're all trying to feel

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Speaker 1: our way through it. And there there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of uncertainties and a lot of unevenness I would prefer

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Speaker 1: not to see right now. But we're gonna do it

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Speaker 1: in a matter that's consistent with our values and the

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Speaker 1: way Notre Dame approaches athletics. Jack does the n i

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Speaker 1: L help or hurt the school's marketing deals? For instance?

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Speaker 1: What sponsors go directly to the athletes? Are they allowed

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Speaker 1: to do that? What is Notre Dame's stance on that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's um. I think it's probably a little early to

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Speaker 1: draw a conclusion, but I don't think it will. I

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Speaker 1: think our sponsors can find additional value by working with

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Speaker 1: our student athletes. The challenge in relying on college athletes

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Speaker 1: to affiliate with you for purposes of promoting your brand

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Speaker 1: or your product is that their windows college athletes is

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Speaker 1: so small. They probably don't emerge to the sophomore year.

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Speaker 1: They may be gone then after their junior year. So

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Speaker 1: so I think the most sponsors advertisers are going to

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Speaker 1: stay grounded with the university UM. Now, social media is different.

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Speaker 1: The value produced there will largely accrue to the benefit

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Speaker 1: of the student athlete, and so you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the maybe unintended consequences, maybe in a positive way, Jack,

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Speaker 1: is that n I L and everything that's happening around

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Speaker 1: it may elevate both commercially and even from a visibility perspective.

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Speaker 1: Some of those non football players that we are alluding to.

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Speaker 1: You've got some Olympians in your midst there. You know,

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Speaker 1: these are are athletes who you know, they're sort of

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Speaker 1: athletic pinnacle, at least on on a big national or

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Speaker 1: global stage, may come while they're in college. Are you

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Speaker 1: seeing any evidence of that so far? Yes. Absolutely, we

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Speaker 1: had a very successful Olympics, UM are a lot of

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Speaker 1: our athletes, former athletes did particularly well and and so

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Speaker 1: you see that with them. I would add, however, though,

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Speaker 1: one of the one of the great things about this

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Speaker 1: is there are a ton of student athletes, largely female,

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Speaker 1: who have developed enormous social media followings unrelated to their sports. Basically,

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Speaker 1: their their TikTok celebrities or you know, their Instagram content

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Speaker 1: is really compelling and they couldn't capture that value. Now

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Speaker 1: July one, when this thing got turned on, the highest

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Speaker 1: paid student athletes in the country are ones you haven't

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Speaker 1: heard of. That's a great byproduct of this that they

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Speaker 1: can capture that value they should have been amble to

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Speaker 1: capture all along. How has it changed your department the

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Speaker 1: way it runs, you know, kind of dealing with I mean,

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Speaker 1: you laid out all these sort of big existential issues

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Speaker 1: that are facing college athletics. Does it change you know,

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Speaker 1: who you're hiring, where you're staffing up, maybe you know

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Speaker 1: where you're diverting a little bit of your attention? How

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Speaker 1: do you deal with all of these things that are

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Speaker 1: coming at you seemingly all at once. Jack, Yeah, You've

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Speaker 1: got to make some really hard choices because our our

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Speaker 1: resource base isn't increasing in the in the midst of this,

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Speaker 1: but the the demands are so Absolutely we had to

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Speaker 1: staff up for an I l That meant we had

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Speaker 1: to look across the department and find some other place

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Speaker 1: is where we we we wouldn't continue to invest, you know,

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Speaker 1: the same decisions businesses are making coming out of COVID

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Speaker 1: all over the place, and and and so those were

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Speaker 1: those are the choices that we have had to make

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Speaker 1: their difficult choices. But we we stay grounded and what

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Speaker 1: our student athletes need right now, and what they need

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Speaker 1: right now is is our ability to facilitate n I

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Speaker 1: l uh. They especially need mental health counseling. You've got

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Speaker 1: to stay responsive to your primary customer, and in our case,

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Speaker 1: that's the student. So Jack fair to say this is

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Speaker 1: just I think factual. One of the most compelling, best

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Speaker 1: known brands in sports globally and and even beyond sports

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Speaker 1: is Notre Dame. Part of the reason you have amazing

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Speaker 1: media distribution, you have the NBC deal, and yet we

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Speaker 1: see a very different media landscape and look no further

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Speaker 1: than Peacock, the streaming service. That's where we're gonna find

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Speaker 1: your first game, I believe exclusively. What does that mean

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Speaker 1: the sort of way that people are going to get

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Speaker 1: to these games for the ongoing evolution of this brand, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: um well, it's the movement of streaming is inextricable. And

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Speaker 1: I think, and I think faster than most people understand. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think that what we now think of as a

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Speaker 1: network will be what we now think of as a

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Speaker 1: streaming company. I think NBC will become Peacock. I think

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Speaker 1: ESPN will become Disney Plus and and so, as we

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Speaker 1: have consistently done in our media strategies, we want to

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Speaker 1: be out in front of that. And so we took

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Speaker 1: the unusual step of UM putting our first home game

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Speaker 1: exclusively on Peacock. Our other games will be simultaneously available

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Speaker 1: on Peacock, but this one is exclusively and and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do that. I embrace set because I want

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Speaker 1: I want to find out how we perform in that platform,

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Speaker 1: because that's the future. You want to start a lively

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Speaker 1: conversation when you go into a bar, bring up the

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Speaker 1: college football playoff system and expanding it. So I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you this question, should it be expanded, would

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame have a bigger chance of getting into the playoffs?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? Well, one of the four members

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Speaker 1: of the working group who crafted the proposal, So I

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Speaker 1: very much believe it should be expanded. UM. And it's

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Speaker 1: unrelated to Notre Dame. I mean, we've done fine in

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Speaker 1: the current model. We've been one of five schools to

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Speaker 1: be in it more than once. UM. But but here's

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Speaker 1: the principal difference. If for our student athletes in all

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Speaker 1: our other sports, they have they have somewhere between a

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Speaker 1: twenty and chance of participating in the postseason. Our football

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Speaker 1: players have a three percent ends of participating in the postseason.

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Speaker 1: We had to create a more more poperable opportunity for

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Speaker 1: our football players. UM and and so I think an

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Speaker 1: expansion is absolutely the right thing to do. I think

430
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: we can do it without taxing the student athletes. Um

431
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: and the proposal we put forward largely does that. So,

432
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: UM I'm hopeful. I know it's caught up in some

433
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: politics right now, but I'm hopefully it will still occur

434
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: college football politics. What that's I don't think that's so so.

435
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: So if you're a conference champion, from my understanding, you

436
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: get a first round by in this if they're expanded

437
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: to twelve teams. But you You're independence seems to be

438
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: crucial to Notre Dame's identity in brand. Do you see

439
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: you staying self staying independent in the long term? You know,

440
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: I do, UM never say never. As long as we

441
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: have two things we intend to stay independent. One is

442
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: a media partner committed to broadcast all of our games

443
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: nationally and access to the college football off Those are

444
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,239
Speaker 1: those are sort of the two lynch pin elements we

445
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: have to have, but it's part of our DNA. It

446
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: helped define what Notre Dame is today. Back when it started, UM,

447
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: a brilliant coach by the name of Jesse Harper who

448
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: had a pretty talented wide receiver by the name of

449
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 1: Newton Rockney. UH embraced this model when they couldn't when

450
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: they went when they got boycotted by the predecessor to

451
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: the Big Ten. And and we use it, I mean

452
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: we we embrace it. No school has ever played in

453
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Chicago and New York in the same year.

454
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 1: We've done it nine times. Um, that's that's what we

455
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: want to do. We we've played in Ireland. We'll we'll

456
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: get back there. Um. We're on the East Coast every year.

457
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: And and so it's not about football so much as

458
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: using football to extend the university and promote it. And

459
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: so when you think about and you alluded to this earlier,

460
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: when you when you see up close and personal all

461
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: this realignment happening, You see the SEC expanding, You see

462
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: the alliance, which I still think is like ripped from

463
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: an Avenger's script. You know, this notion of the alliance

464
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: with the capital A. UM. You know these are schools

465
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: you know. Well, um, how how do you how does that,

466
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: if at all, influence your view of Notre Dames place

467
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: and that How does it influence the way you think

468
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: about an expanded college football playoff? How does it make

469
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: you think about maybe media going forward? Um? Well, yeah,

470
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: we have to pay close attention to it, and I've

471
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: got to stay in close contact with my colleagues to

472
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: know what they're thinking. You know what. What what we

473
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: can't do here is get caught flat footed if things

474
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: continue to shift. I think there is an inevitable movement,

475
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: and I think it's over a long period of time.

476
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: I'm talking twenty years, probably long after I'm doing this,

477
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: But there's an inevitable inevitability to the major brands affiliating

478
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: in some different way, and somewhere down the road, I

479
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: think that's probably inevitable. Uh. In the intro, I think

480
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: the things that are happening makes sense, um, and and

481
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: will probably help produce better product in terms of having

482
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: more marquee games, which is what college football needs. If

483
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: I can, just if I can follow up on that

484
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: just briefly, how much does what happened in the Supreme Court?

485
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: How much does what happened with N I L influence

486
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: You think that inevitability? I mean, did that accelerate it?

487
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: Did the pandemic accelerate it? How did all these things

488
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: sort of fit together? I know that's a big question,

489
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: but I just sort of wonders as you think about

490
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: the different levels and the different inputs, as it were,

491
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: you know what you make of it? Yeah, I'm not

492
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: sure it does accelerate it um certainly doesn't slow it down.

493
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: But football has always existed large really independent of the

494
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: n c A and and most of those dynamics have

495
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: related to the n c A and largely undermined it's

496
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: it's authority and its government structure. And so it's that

497
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: has to be reinvented now and that process is underway.

498
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: But college football is has always sort of gone its

499
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: own way, and we'll continue to do so well. Jack,

500
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: It was really really good spending some time with you.

501
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: Best of luck, uh in the season, both the football

502
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: season and all the other sports coming through. Looking forward

503
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: to making a visit back to South Bend before too long.

504
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: It is, as I think all of us know, and

505
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: you certainly know better than anyone, a very special place,

506
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: very special school, special community. UM, so we're really grateful

507
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: to you for spending some time with us. Thank you

508
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: so much. Well, thank you. I love the conversation, and uh,

509
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: I hope you all have a great year as well. Zack,

510
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: don't worry, I cried during Rudy. I just want to

511
00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: do so guys, great to spend some time obviously with

512
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: Jack swore break. You know, there's college football and there's

513
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: Notre Dame in many ways, I mean, obviously it is

514
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: an athletic juggernaut across lots of different sports. I mentioned lacrosse,

515
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: and over the course of our conversation there you know

516
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: perennial top five team they're on the men's side. Women's

517
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: basketball has been incredibly uh, an incredibly powerful force. Uh.

518
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: That's a big job. And you know, Lenchie, at least

519
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: my takeaway was something he said towards the beginning of

520
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: the conversation, which is, this is one of the most

521
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: turbulent times in the history of college sports. Uh, so

522
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: many different things happening. Well, I think one of the

523
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: great things about Notre Dame is last year they just

524
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to have their football and basketball teams continue

525
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: to play. They wanted all their sports to play, and

526
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: he was quite frank when he said, they're using football

527
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: to extend the university and to promote to promote the

528
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: university worldwide. And football, you know, is uh the juggernaut

529
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: that funds all the other non revenue sports. And you know,

530
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: hats off to Notre Dame forgetting the student athletes back

531
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: on campus and also getting them participating in sports. And

532
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: again he spoke about how proud he was of all

533
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: the athletes they had that competed and excelled in the

534
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: Olympic Games as well. Yeah, a lot of fun. And

535
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: you know, obviously, Bar, it's interesting to hear him talk

536
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: about this was really an extension of the overall decision

537
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: that was made by the university to get students back

538
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: on campus. You know, it was refreshing to some extent

539
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: to hear An A. D really truly talk about student athletes.

540
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: I dare say we may have lost sight of that

541
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: a few times over the last few years. Oh yeah,

542
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: and uh, it also was refreshing because not just football.

543
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, uh Notre Dame is known for football

544
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: and for the basketball team for that matter, but many

545
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: other sports as well, like lacrosse. I mean, I can

546
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: go on like you, like you had mentioned earlier, and

547
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's college sports. It is something special. And

548
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: I was Joe being a little earlier when I mentioned

549
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: about Rudy, but it watched that movie. It's one of

550
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 1: the best sports movies ever and maybe that does and

551
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: capture what college sports is all about. Well, last note

552
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: that I'll make and then we'll move on to the

553
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: number of the week. Is that what he said about

554
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: the media I thought was fascinating. You know, anybody who

555
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: watches college football closely knows that, you know, you go

556
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: to one place for the SEC, you go another place

557
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: for the a SEC, another place for the Big ten,

558
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: and then you go to NBC for Notre Dame. It

559
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: is it is a one of one in many cases.

560
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: And so they have the power just in the way

561
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: that they did in terms of making the decision to

562
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: play football as they did last fall, to say, yep,

563
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: you know what, We're going to be exclusively on a

564
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: streamer on Peacock. You know, we're going to force people

565
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: if they want to watch the first home game to

566
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: you know, download an app or you know, get that

567
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: going on a computer or or a TV. So I

568
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: love the fact he said we want to be ahead

569
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: of this. We know that this is where, uh, this

570
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: is moving. And I gotta think he's hearing from a

571
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: lot of not just alumni, but but current students that

572
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: that's how they want to consume this game. All right, well, great,

573
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: great conversation, And if you're listening on the radio, uh,

574
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,239
Speaker 1: check out the extended version of the podcast, because we

575
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: did go uh pretty far and wide ranging with Jack

576
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: Swarbrick over at Notre Dame. Alright, number of the week, monros,

577
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: pick the kids. Feels better to be number one than

578
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: number five. I'll wear a number because of Mike. We

579
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: have a chance to go for three and a row.

580
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: Good numbers are a good time. When I first started

581
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: wearing the number, how we just have the in proud

582
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: Floomberg business of sports, the number of the week. All right, guys, yes,

583
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: such time. But the number of the week. By the way,

584
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: don't assume that it's always going to be about dollars. Okay,

585
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: because we are on the cusp of the NFL season.

586
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: What I want to know is the heaviest player in

587
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: the NFL who ever played. The guy played in the NFL.

588
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: His name was Aaron Gibson, and he played for the Lions,

589
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: played for the Cowboys, played for the Bears. Offensive tackle.

590
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: How much did he weigh I'm trying to remember how

591
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: much the refrigerator was. He was a big boy. When

592
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: did he play? I want to say late, I want

593
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 1: to stay around two thousand. Okay, I'm gonna go with

594
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: I can't catch him, there's gotta be If it was

595
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: a four d pounder, we would have heard about him.

596
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go three. He actually weighed four pounds

597
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: good with the Lions, and when he was in high

598
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: school he weighed four hundred forty pounds. That now, you

599
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: talk about an offensive tackle, you're not getting by that guy.

600
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: The number two guy by the way, Terrell Brown, he

601
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: weighed four hundred three pounds and played with the Rams

602
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: and a couple of four handles. Wow, amazing, amazing. All right,

603
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: that's good number. That's good number. Lynch. Nice, nice job.

604
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: I did. I see? There was nice strategy. But you

605
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: got close and uh, hat's off to you. Thatt's off

606
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: to you. All right, you've been listening to Bluemberg Businesses Sports.

607
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: We're here each and every week for you at the

608
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: same time, plus online wherever you get your podcast. Catch

609
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: those Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. I'm Jason Kelly. Find me

610
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Jason Kelly News. Still scratching my head

611
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: over four pounds. I'm Lynchy and you can find me

612
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: at Lynch W Beef. And I'm Michael Barr on Twitter.

613
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: Come on up, Lynch, you're on the stage now. Add

614
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: Big Bar Sports. You're listening to Bluemberg Business of Sports

615
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio around the world.