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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poett and

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Speaker 1: I am an editor at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Sitting across from me as usual and you don't even

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Speaker 1: have to search for him, is senior writer Jonathan Strickland.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel so dirty when they started talking cute.

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Speaker 1: I want to tell her that I love her, but

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Speaker 1: the point is probably moot. Okay, well, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: try to puzzle out what that is actually doing with

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Speaker 1: this subject. Absolutely nothing. Sorry I spoiled it for you,

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Speaker 1: But today we're gonna talk about we decided we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do another kind of series. And if you if you're

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Speaker 1: if you're aware of our series, you know that we

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Speaker 1: do these sporadically. Um, but we we like there's certain

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Speaker 1: series we like to do where there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff on a particular kind of sub topic in tech

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Speaker 1: and we think, oh, that'd be great to tackle that.

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Speaker 1: But there's no way we can do one episode that

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Speaker 1: covers the whole topic, right, It's just too big. Right.

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Speaker 1: And and for those of you who have been with

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Speaker 1: us for a long time and you you hear us

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Speaker 1: launch series and you go yeah, but you don't come back.

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Speaker 1: It's because we we think of these lists of stuff

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Speaker 1: like this, and then we go, oh, we just didn't

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Speaker 1: two on that, we should wait a while. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then so so we'll have to get back to like

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Speaker 1: the two series we need to get back to sooner

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Speaker 1: rather than later, our our electronic series, in our medical series,

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Speaker 1: because we've had requests for both of those, so we

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Speaker 1: will go back to those. But in this case, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about tech rivalries. And we've talked about some tech

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Speaker 1: rivalries recently in the podcast, Like we've had podcasts that

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Speaker 1: were recently talking about Edison and Tesla, and that's one

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Speaker 1: of the most famous rival reason technology in all of history. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing about when we talk about companies, which

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Speaker 1: we're going to do today, is that in a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases, uh, some of these companies are sort of frenemies,

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Speaker 1: you know, friends and enemies. They might have a history

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Speaker 1: of working together as well as working at cross purposes. Actually,

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Speaker 1: come to think of it, I guess Edison and Tesla

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Speaker 1: did work to them for a little while. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, they were more enemies than front of me. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, so we're going to talk today. The tech

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Speaker 1: rivalry were specifically talking about is Google versus pretty much

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Speaker 1: everybody else. In fact, in a way, this could be

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Speaker 1: a part one of google rivalries with other companies, because truly,

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Speaker 1: Google has had it Scott's finger in a lot of pies. Actually,

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Speaker 1: the funny thing is that the one will probably end

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Speaker 1: with is the rivalry that just sort of popped up

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Speaker 1: and made us think of this, And it's not somebody

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Speaker 1: we necessarily would have thought of as being or at

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Speaker 1: least I would have thought of as being a competitor

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Speaker 1: with Google. So let's start with the obvious. So from

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Speaker 1: a consumer standpoint, like a customer, like an end user

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Speaker 1: like me or or like Chris. To us, Google is

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Speaker 1: a search engine. Yes chiefly. I mean there are all

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Speaker 1: the other things that Google does as well. But if

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Speaker 1: I say I'm going to Google something, that means I'm

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Speaker 1: going to a search for it, and uh, and I

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Speaker 1: mean there is a verb now for googling. So that

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Speaker 1: shows that Google really has dominated this whole section of

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Speaker 1: the internet. You know, the marketing department will probably their

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Speaker 1: marketing department probably disagree that it's a verb, but they

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Speaker 1: probably secretly are going, yes, yeah, I wouldn't imagine so

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Speaker 1: the so the the first rivalry we wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about was with Yahoo. You know, another big search engine

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Speaker 1: and in fact was a huge search engine back in

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Speaker 1: the nineties. Yes, well sort of it, I would argue,

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Speaker 1: it was enormous. It was only after the dot Com

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Speaker 1: crash that it started to really have to it really,

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Speaker 1: it took that hit pretty hard. Although it survived obviously

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Speaker 1: as opposed to some of the other companies now, it

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Speaker 1: then built up quite a bit again, only to start

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Speaker 1: suffering again in the late two thousand era. Why, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to, uh to put it down as a

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Speaker 1: search engine, but I don't think um okay y'ah, whose

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Speaker 1: existence predates Googles by a few years. Yeah, and when

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Speaker 1: when Google made the scene, Yahoo was at least one

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Speaker 1: of the search leaders. There were others like Alta, Vista

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Speaker 1: and Umu hot Bot, which actually used a different engine

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Speaker 1: deemed Yeah, and so there were a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: but Yahoo, um at the time they were uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they were using a lot of human

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Speaker 1: based power. But the thing is they were sort of

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Speaker 1: leveraging that. Now, if you think about Yahoo right now,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a content engine. Uh. They have a

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Speaker 1: lot of material that they create, editorial content or a

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Speaker 1: license from other people, and they were sort of doing that.

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Speaker 1: They were sort of contextualizing search, like if you were

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Speaker 1: looking for something in particular, they might tell you, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, promote somebody that they had worked with and

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Speaker 1: say why it was that you might want to pick them.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily as search result, although you would get

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Speaker 1: search results. Yeah, the uh that sounds weird. They were

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Speaker 1: kind of a web portal. Yeah, they really were. So

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Speaker 1: you think it was sort of a combination of the

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Speaker 1: the the search engine, the the Internet search engine, and

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Speaker 1: so almost like the online service providers we talked about

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Speaker 1: in previous episodes. It's like the old days of all

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Speaker 1: l and Prodigy. It kind of had its own sort

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Speaker 1: of portal into the Web that wasn't all inclusive, but

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Speaker 1: gave you a good spread of information across various topics,

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Speaker 1: so that you know, you you could at a glance

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Speaker 1: on one page see some interesting headlines and that might

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Speaker 1: be that might be the extent of your experience using

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Speaker 1: the Internet. Back in those days. Well, people didn't necessarily know.

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Speaker 1: I worked in a an I s P and Internet

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Speaker 1: service provider in the mid ninety nineties, and there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who would who would call our

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Speaker 1: phone number. I've worked in sales for a bit and

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Speaker 1: people would call and ask, you know, my son or

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Speaker 1: my daughter told me I need to get an Internet

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Speaker 1: account so I can send mail messages. What is this

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Speaker 1: internet thing? And and what do I do? And the

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Speaker 1: thing is, people didn't really know what a u r

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Speaker 1: L was back then because they were being introduced to it.

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Speaker 1: It was a sort of a new concept. The Internet

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Speaker 1: had been around, but it wasn't always a consumer uh

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Speaker 1: you know service, and it wasn't necessarily user friendly. I

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Speaker 1: mean this was built by engineers. Yeah, and so I

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Speaker 1: love you engineers, I love you all. Yes, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that people knew where they were going

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Speaker 1: on the World Wide Web. I mean Worldwide Web was

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Speaker 1: only you know, a few a couple of years old

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Speaker 1: at that point, a few years old. Yeah, yeah, who

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Speaker 1: you know who launched officially as a company in n

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Speaker 1: Now it actually grew out of a service that had

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Speaker 1: existed before that, but in became Yahoo and then they

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Speaker 1: launched Yahoo Mail in nineteen. It sort of became a

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Speaker 1: web portal. They purchased Geo Cities in nine, which was,

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Speaker 1: you know, a web page hosting service which now no

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Speaker 1: longer exists, but was. It was big for a while,

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Speaker 1: and it it organized web pages into neighborhoods, so it

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Speaker 1: was it was an attempt to make the web more uh,

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Speaker 1: user friendly and understandable to the common consumer by by

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Speaker 1: relating it to concepts that the consumer would already be

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Speaker 1: familiar with. So yeah, I was really doing a lot

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Speaker 1: of work in this area. Uh. And then they had

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Speaker 1: the dot com bubble burst in the two thousand two

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Speaker 1: thousand one era. Right around two thousand, Yahoo began to

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Speaker 1: do something interesting. Yahoo began to use the search algorithms,

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Speaker 1: licensing them from another search engine company, and that search

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Speaker 1: engine company was Google. Google h they registered Google dot

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Speaker 1: com in the company itself officially launched in night, so

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Speaker 1: it was late to the game compared to Yahoo. But

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Speaker 1: Google's service was considered to be one of the best

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Speaker 1: on the web. For one, Google was able to index

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Speaker 1: millions and later billions of web pages and had a

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Speaker 1: very stripped down simple user interface. I mean it's the

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Speaker 1: same as it as today in the sense that you

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Speaker 1: go to www dot Google dot com, you're gonna see

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Speaker 1: the Google logo, you're gonna see the search bar, and

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Speaker 1: then you just type in your query and you hit

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Speaker 1: search Plus. There's other stuff there too, but it's not

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Speaker 1: much right. They kept it really stripped down and simple.

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Speaker 1: And so that was Google's philosophical difference between you know,

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Speaker 1: from Yahoo's point, like Yahoo strategy was web portal, throwing

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Speaker 1: as many services there, try and be as useful as

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Speaker 1: possible and be the destination for the people on the

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Speaker 1: web that they will get their web content through Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: Didn't you write an article about that about what the

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Speaker 1: Google algorithm? Yes I did. I wrote an article about

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Speaker 1: what makes the Google algorithms so important? And in fact

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Speaker 1: y'ah who recognized how important the Google algorithm was, And

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Speaker 1: so again in two thousand they started to work with Google.

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Speaker 1: They began to use the Google search engine technology on Yahoo. Now, Yahoo,

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Speaker 1: of course was really concentrated on building up that web

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Speaker 1: portal aspect of their business at the time, and they

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Speaker 1: used the Google algorithm till about two thousand four, and

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Speaker 1: that's when Yahoo ended that relationship with Google and switched

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Speaker 1: to an in house developed search algorithm. Uh, so they're

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Speaker 1: back doing their own search at that point, because then

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Speaker 1: you've got another element that comes into play a little later. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so you then you have started to have

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Speaker 1: this this rivalry in search between Google and Yahoo, a

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Speaker 1: true rivalry as opposed to the kind of weird semi

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Speaker 1: rivalry when you have one company competing against another company

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Speaker 1: that's using the first company's technology. That's just kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to get get your mind wrapped

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Speaker 1: around that. Well. In two thousand three, Yahoo bought a

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Speaker 1: company called Overture Services. Now, then in two thousand four,

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Speaker 1: Yahoo levied a huge patent lawsuit against Google that said

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Speaker 1: that Google was was used being technology based on patents

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Speaker 1: filed by Overture Services, which yeah, who now owned in

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Speaker 1: purchase the year before. It all hinged on online advertising,

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Speaker 1: which is the way Google makes most of its revenue. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Yahoo also has quite a lot of revenue. If

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Speaker 1: you ask, if you ask an entrepreneur what Google's businesses,

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Speaker 1: they're not going to tell you it's search engine. They're

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Speaker 1: going to tell you it's online advertising. So uh and

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Speaker 1: and the you know, you, yourself, you the user, are

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Speaker 1: the commodity. Then the advertising is the way it generates revenue.

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Speaker 1: So this was a big deal. I mean, Google depended

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Speaker 1: on and still does depends on online advertising for money.

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Speaker 1: So a lawsuit that could potentially, ah, we'll throw a

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Speaker 1: monkey wrench into the works as far as online advertising goes,

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Speaker 1: was a huge problem. Well, eventually they settled that lawsuit

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Speaker 1: and Yahoo was granted a perpetual license to use these

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Speaker 1: these technologies to Google, and Google in turn gave some

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Speaker 1: stock to Yahoo, Google stock to Yahoo. Actually the two

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Speaker 1: companies own stock in each other. Um, it's kind of interesting,

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Speaker 1: but one wonders if perhaps Yahoo may be folded a

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Speaker 1: little too easily, because since then, Yahoo has had some

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Speaker 1: problems to the point where they've had massive layoffs and

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Speaker 1: the company itself has been devalued massively over the years.

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Speaker 1: And there's been some very highly publicized political struggles within

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Speaker 1: Yahoo over the last couple of years as well, and

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Speaker 1: and a lot of struggling at the executive level at Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: And so then you've got a point in two thousand

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Speaker 1: eight where Google and Yahoo had reached an agreement in

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Speaker 1: which Yahoo could use Google advertising on Yahoo pages. So

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Speaker 1: again you've got like this weird relationship with they're kind

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Speaker 1: of competing against each other, and then they're kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, who wants to depend on this? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is all good news for Google because they're gonna

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Speaker 1: get money using their you know, licensing out this this

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Speaker 1: advertising technology. But there was one little tiny problem. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the United States Department of Justice said that this smacked

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Speaker 1: of monopoly as far as advertising on the web goes,

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Speaker 1: and so they struck it down through antitrust laws. So

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Speaker 1: this agreement never came to fruition. Uh. And then eventually

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Speaker 1: you get to the point where you rereach today a

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Speaker 1: coint to Business Insider, the most recent figures I could

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Speaker 1: find for the market share for search has Google with

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Speaker 1: sixty five point seven percent of all online search all

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Speaker 1: the world around. Yeah, okay, and Yahoo fifteen point seven.

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Speaker 1: So and then you've got you know, he's in third place, yes,

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Speaker 1: being being nine percent. Now, Google is more or less plateaued.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't really gained or lost a significant percentage of

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Speaker 1: that market share in quite some time. It's it's kind

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Speaker 1: of lost a little bit, but not a whole, not

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Speaker 1: a lot. Yahoo has been in a very very slow,

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Speaker 1: gradual decline, Bing has been in a climbing pattern, and

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Speaker 1: Being is starting to steal some search traffic, our search

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Speaker 1: market share from both Yahoo and Google. Yes, um, more

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Speaker 1: Yahoo than Google really at this point. And that actually

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Speaker 1: kind of is another interesting point because you know, Microsoft

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Speaker 1: and Yahoo entered into a ten year agreement not too

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Speaker 1: long ago in which Microsoft gets full access to Yahoo's

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Speaker 1: search engine for the ten years. This was related to

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Speaker 1: uh to bing to be able to use the technology

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Speaker 1: that Yahoo had developed to help bolster the Being search engine.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that Being is completely based on Yahoo's

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Speaker 1: search engine technology, but it may partially be based upon it, right,

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Speaker 1: And if you run a search in Yahoo now, if

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, you will get uh bing Yahoo powered search. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So ten year partnership that was signed by the way

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Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, So that would end, of course

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Speaker 1: in another few years. Yeah. Microsoft's Live search product had

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Speaker 1: been floundering, uh compared to some of its competitors, most

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Speaker 1: notably Google. Um, you know, you wouldn't necessarily think that

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Speaker 1: Microsoft and Google would be competitors. I mean, Microsoft makes

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Speaker 1: operating system software, productivity software. You know, some electronic devices,

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Speaker 1: the Xbox Zoom. Hey wait a minute, what so does

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Speaker 1: Google Google creates an operating system called Chromos, and Google

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Speaker 1: has a suite of productivity software called Google Docs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a rivalry I think is heating up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And this wasn't around. I mean when you were talking

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Speaker 1: about just a couple of years ago that it wasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily a rivalry. This is something that's cropping up now.

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Speaker 1: There was a rivalry as far as search goes because

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Speaker 1: of Coach. Microsoft have Microsoft Live Search. And then there

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Speaker 1: was a rivalry in web based email as well, because

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Speaker 1: you had hot mail and live mail accounts through Microsoft.

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Speaker 1: You had the Yahoo Mail accounts through y'all who by

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Speaker 1: the way, y'all who actually totally redid their their mail

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Speaker 1: system after Gmail launched, because then that's the other one.

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Speaker 1: You've got Google's Gmail. So you've got these three different

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Speaker 1: or technically four if you talk about live mail versus hotmail, uh,

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Speaker 1: four different web email based services. Uh. I know, just

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Speaker 1: anecdotally talking with other people who are in the tech industry,

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Speaker 1: tech journalists and and such, they get surprised when they

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Speaker 1: see an email from a hotmail account at this point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because everyone thinks of that, at least when I say everyone,

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Speaker 1: like all of the people I talked to think of

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Speaker 1: that as like the spam account, um, and my my

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Speaker 1: spam box filled up pretty quickly and hot mail and

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Speaker 1: I hadn't even given it out to people, so I

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Speaker 1: guess they're just blanketing everything there. Um. So yeah, being

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Speaker 1: launched in the summer of two thousand nine, so it's

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Speaker 1: really not even all that old as the time when're recording,

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Speaker 1: is this less than just less than two years? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it feels like it's been forever. Yeah, it does actually, um,

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people were skeptical. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Google's had a sort of an iron grip on the

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Speaker 1: search market for years, um, but then Being started eating

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Speaker 1: into Google's market share. When you think about it, two

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Speaker 1: years to go from nothing to thirteen point nine percent

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Speaker 1: of the market share of search. That's enormous now. Granted,

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Speaker 1: you could also argue that Being is sort of the

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Speaker 1: the step child of Live Search, in which case you

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Speaker 1: would have to look at the market share that Live

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Speaker 1: Search had and compared to what Being has now. But that,

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Speaker 1: you know, beside the point. Yeah, I've heard generally when

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Speaker 1: I've used it, it's been a pretty good search engine,

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Speaker 1: and um, a lot of other people seem to feel

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Speaker 1: that way too. I have seen critical, critical praise for

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Speaker 1: being um but yeah, all of a sudden, now, uh,

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Speaker 1: Microsoft is completely retooled at search, and not every company

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Speaker 1: has the pockets deep enough to just go, let's start

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Speaker 1: a new one from scratch. Microsoft of beviously does and

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Speaker 1: uh you know, now they're competing on that front. And then,

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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, um, Google decided it wanted to

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Speaker 1: get into the productivity software business as well. And this

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Speaker 1: has caused Microsoft to react because we actually Google sort

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Speaker 1: of acquired a series of they had their own, and

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Speaker 1: then they sort of acquired a series of independent cloud

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Speaker 1: based tools and a cloud of courses the internet. Um.

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Speaker 1: You use these these pieces of software in your web

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Speaker 1: browser online. The documents are stored online in general, although

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Speaker 1: with Google Docs you can upload uh files and you

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Speaker 1: can also have with Google Gears you can have offline

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Speaker 1: capability as well. Yeah. But yeah, at the time, it

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Speaker 1: may not have looked like it was an indirect competition

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Speaker 1: because that functionality wasn't there. You had Microsoft Office, which

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Speaker 1: as many of you know, is a well well entrenched

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Speaker 1: productivity suite that includes presentation software and a spreadsheet document creator,

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Speaker 1: and uh in an email client, the word which is

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Speaker 1: the word processing software, and depending on the package you buy,

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Speaker 1: it will include other different pieces of software, but those

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Speaker 1: are the big ease UM and Google Docs. Google acquired rightly,

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Speaker 1: they acquired uh UM, Presentation program, Um and and several others.

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Speaker 1: And then you wouldn't necessarily Okay, so you've got the

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Speaker 1: one that's based on your hard drive, which is Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: and you've got the one that's based online, and they're compatible. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, not such a big deal. Well then Google

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Speaker 1: up the anti They said, let's go ahead and add

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Speaker 1: offline functionality. So now you can download document or you know,

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Speaker 1: work on stuff offline, you can upload it back to

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Speaker 1: Google Docs. So Google counters, but you know with Microsoft counters.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Microsoft counters with its own online version of

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Speaker 1: the Office Suite, which has actually again gotten some critical praise.

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Speaker 1: I've seen some reasonably positive remarks on it. And the

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Speaker 1: one of the big benefits of the Google app, which

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Speaker 1: was that it really created new opportunities for collaboration because

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Speaker 1: you could share documents across multiple users and then collaboratively

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Speaker 1: work on projects without having to create new copies of

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Speaker 1: a document. That was the big problem with the old

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Speaker 1: offline system was that if I wanted to work on

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Speaker 1: a document and I wanted Chris to be able to

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Speaker 1: work on it too, I would have to I would

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Speaker 1: have to send him a copy of it, and I

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Speaker 1: would work on one instance of that document on my computer.

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Speaker 1: He would work on another instance of it on his computer,

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Speaker 1: and then we'd have to recombine the two, which was

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Speaker 1: always kind of a messy way of doing things. And

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Speaker 1: it could mean that perhaps we both made changes to

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Speaker 1: the same section, and then how do you incorporate two

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Speaker 1: different sets of changes for the one part of that document.

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Speaker 1: Sharing it online meant that everyone was working for the

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Speaker 1: same master document and that you know, you still have

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Speaker 1: issues that you run into there if you have two

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Speaker 1: people trying to edit the same section at the same time,

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Speaker 1: but you can see it in real time or or

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Speaker 1: close to real time and h and tell the person, Hey,

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Speaker 1: knock it off, I'm working on that right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: then you can review it and you can make changes.

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Speaker 1: So it made that a little more of a smoother process. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's definitely a rivalry between Microsoft and Google, and it

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Speaker 1: does go beyond just the the productivity software and even

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Speaker 1: the operating system, because like we said, Google's launching Chromos,

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Speaker 1: and that's really starting to look kind of interesting. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know that's going to get widespread adoption,

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Speaker 1: but Google is putting a lot of muscle behind it. Now,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind, we've seen Google push other products really,

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Speaker 1: really hard, only to have to eventually give up on them.

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Speaker 1: So there's no guarantee that Chromos is going to be

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Speaker 1: a huge success. But they're not sparing any expense and

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Speaker 1: trying to make it one now, and they're not above

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Speaker 1: defending their turf as we saw earlier in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eleven with the accusations flying back and forth between

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Speaker 1: who's stealing whose search results between Google and being But

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Speaker 1: there's another front too we hadn't talked about. You know,

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Speaker 1: Windows has been making an operating system for PDAs and

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Speaker 1: later phones smartphones for years. Um. You know, Windows just

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Speaker 1: came out with a new version of its operating system

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Speaker 1: for phones, which again, UH seems to be getting some

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Speaker 1: reasonable success. But it's hard because they already have UH.

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Speaker 1: Google already has its Android operating system, which is on

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Speaker 1: millions of phones worldwide, and they're also competing on another

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Speaker 1: front with that, which is with another company that creates smartphones, yes,

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Speaker 1: and that would be Apple. Yes, there are other companies,

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Speaker 1: of course that do create smartphones. We're not forgetting BlackBerry, BlackBerry,

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Speaker 1: and we're not forgetting some of the other players, Nokia

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Speaker 1: with the Symbian. Yeah, although Nokia is now doing Windows Phone.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting? Yeah, So you've got Google battling Microsoft

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Speaker 1: multiple fronts, including the smartphone. Then you have Google battling

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Speaker 1: Apple on multiple fronts, including the smartphone. Now, and here

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Speaker 1: here's an interesting point. If you were to look at

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Speaker 1: the Google versus Microsoft part of this picture, you would

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Speaker 1: say that Google was the one who got there first

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Speaker 1: for smart phones in that Android was more of a

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Speaker 1: smartphone operating system than the old Windows Mobile operating system. Now,

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Speaker 1: uh so Android was able to get established in that

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Speaker 1: market before Windows Phone showed up because Windows Mobile Windows

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Speaker 1: Phone or two different operating systems for phones, and Windows

399
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Speaker 1: Mobile would be the more primitive version. Windows Phone is

400
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Speaker 1: really snazzy. But Android already had a foothold there. So

401
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 1: that in that case, you're talking about Microsoft trying to

402
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: take down a giant. But really Google faced that same

403
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Speaker 1: problem because in two thousand seven, uh the iPhone launched

404
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: in in June, and it wasn't until November of two

405
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Speaker 1: thousand seven that the Android phone launched, so Apple had

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Speaker 1: a big jump already. You might say, well, that's just

407
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: a few months, that's not a huge deal. It was

408
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Speaker 1: an enormous deal because Apple was able to do something

409
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Speaker 1: that no one else had done up to that point.

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Speaker 1: Apple was able to create a market for smartphones among

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Speaker 1: general consumers. Right. Of course, BlackBerry already had a pretty

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Speaker 1: big presence, you know, in the in the in the

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Speaker 1: enterprise market forces for companies corporate users. Yeah, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, you might have a p d A, but

415
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Speaker 1: you'd use it for your personal appointments and things you

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Speaker 1: don't really necessarily need a smartphone for. And and they

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Speaker 1: were expensive at the time too, so you don't you

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily need one for your own personal use, right sure.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't until Apple was able to show it

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Speaker 1: as a consumer device, not just a corporate device. Now,

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Speaker 1: the key there was to make sure that you still

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Speaker 1: showed it as something that you could do productive work on,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time show it in a really

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Speaker 1: sleek and sexy and fun way. So it had lots

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Speaker 1: of games and the animation was beautiful, and the graphics

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Speaker 1: were gorgeous, and the apps that they developed were really

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Speaker 1: really compelling apps. For the most part, they were couple

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Speaker 1: clunkers in there. But and then opening up the app

429
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: Store was a brilliant move because now you just created

430
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: a market for all this kind of software. It was really,

431
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: you know, a great, a great strategy on Apple's part,

432
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: and they could not have done a better job with

433
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: their launch. Whether you love the iPhone or you hate it,

434
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: you gotta admit that their launch of that product was

435
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: a complete success. Yeah now, and I'm sorry, no, please

436
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: go ahead. I was going to point out I'm amused

437
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: by this because, uh, you know, a couple of years ago,

438
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: I was asked to write an article. I don't write

439
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: many articles for How Stuff Works dot Com only have

440
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: a small handful. But on this this um column by

441
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: technology writer Nicholas Car Do you remember this? And I

442
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: have to uh have no of him, I don't actually

443
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: know him. I have to laugh at this because the

444
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 1: name of this article is how the Google Apple Cloud

445
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: computer will work. Because you know, the idea was and

446
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: Car suggested, and at the time it was brilliant because

447
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: you know, he said, Google can supply the cloud infrastructure.

448
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: Apple can supply the software and the hardware, which would

449
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: look amazing WHI would look amazing and work does Yeah,

450
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: Apple makes stuff that works, and they make stuff that

451
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: looks really really sleek. On the front end. Apple's got

452
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, got that. On the back end, Google's got

453
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: the infrastructure. They know infrastructure, they know cloud computing. Except

454
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: that that was right around the time they became enemies,

455
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: and and and and we had Eric Schmidt on the

456
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: board yeah Apple, Eric Schmidt, who at the time was

457
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: the CEO of Google. Yeah, he was on the board

458
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: of director for director for Apple. Because originally you would say, like,

459
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: well that there's not really a conflict there. Yes, Google

460
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: is a huge technology company. Apple is a huge technology company,

461
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: but they both serve different markets, and everything changed. Yeah,

462
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: and then once they both entered that smartphone market, that

463
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: really made things complicated. And there were some pretty nasty

464
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: kind of digs going on, although you could argue on

465
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: the surface that they weren't necessarily digs, that you know,

466
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: everyone had sort of valid excuses for what they did,

467
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: but you felt that deep down there was really more

468
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: of a how can we get these guys kind of

469
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: thing going on, and I should also say that even

470
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: if this smartphone thing had not happened at that time,

471
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: I still find it hard to imagine at Google bowl

472
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 1: cloud computer. And the main reason for that is because

473
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: I think that Apple and Google have fundamentally different philosophies

474
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: when it comes to the openness of technology. So Apple

475
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: is all about creating a really lockdown, closed system, the

476
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: benefit of which is that you know what's going to

477
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: work because you've locked it down and you're not allowing

478
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: people to come in there and mess with it. And

479
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: Google is not totally open and free. It's not like

480
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: it's Lenox or something, but it's there's like that less

481
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: there is a perception that Android is completely open, which

482
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: is not true. It's not true. No, it's not true.

483
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: Android is more open than other smartphone operating systems out there,

484
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: or most of them anyway, but it is not truly open. Yeah,

485
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: and the Mac os is also somewhat open, but not

486
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: as it's not as closed as Windows. It's not black

487
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: and white, it's not black and white. But Apple is

488
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: definitely further along the closed part of that spectrum, and

489
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: Google is closer to the open. And so yeah, you've

490
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: got uh two thousand seven. That's when both the iPhone

491
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: and Android phones launched. Now, Android at that time was

492
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: it had a huge uphill battle, which eventually it managed

493
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: to to wage uh successfully to the point now where

494
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: you depending on whom you read, you'll see that the

495
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: Android has the dominant market share in smartphones right now. Um,

496
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: there's some reports that say that goes back and forth,

497
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: and it all depends on how many consumers you have

498
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: who are using old smartphones and how many of them

499
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: are still Android versus Apple, and etcetera, etcetera. But the

500
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: main argument is that Android and Apple are the two

501
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: big players in this space, and everyone else is kind of,

502
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, on the boundary. Yeah, and and the other.

503
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: The other interesting thing to note is too in the

504
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: world of apps, Google had difficulty breaking into Apple's app store. Yeah,

505
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: that was one of the digs I was talking about.

506
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: The you know, Google Voice app. Yes, took forever to

507
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: come out. Well, it was originally rejected by Apple and

508
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: then the and Trust's two thousand nine July two thou

509
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: Apple rejects the Google Voice app from the app store.

510
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: In September two tho nine, Eric Schmidt steps down from

511
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: the board of directors from Apple, which some said what

512
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: might have been at least partially in response to the

513
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: app being rejected. Now Google and Apple both say that

514
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: that's not the case. There were there was the antitrust

515
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: concerns and things of that nature that we're really playing

516
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: into it. But you know, people will talk, right. And

517
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: then in November of two thousand nine, Google purchased a

518
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: company called ad Mob, which a mobile advertising company. Right,

519
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: so you've got this mobile advertising company and no one

520
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: argues that mobile is the next really, I mean, it

521
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: is the big thing. It's not the next big thing,

522
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: it is the current big thing in web based technology.

523
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: Everyone is grabbing onto mobile devices to access the web,

524
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: whether it's an MP three player that has WiFi capability,

525
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: a smartphone, a tablet, uh, you know, the that's or

526
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: where it's really going. Even netbooks, you could argue, kind

527
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: of fall into the mobile category just because they're small

528
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: enough that people take them everywhere. Um. So, yeah, the

529
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: mobile web is really a huge, huge thing. So purchasing

530
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: this this ad mob mobile advertising platform was like a

531
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: shot across the bow. And and plus Apple had been

532
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: interested in ad Mob and had made an offer to

533
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: purchase the company just before Google actually did purchase it, Yes,

534
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: then they countered with another purchase their wireless yes. So

535
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: and and now, as anybody who has seen both in

536
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: uh an Android device and an Apple iOS device, they

537
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: have similar styles of advertising in the applications that you

538
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: see on there. So they are they're turning that into

539
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: a source of revenue. And now you know, I've seen

540
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: the bing app show up, and I don't remember there

541
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: being any controversy about Apple and Microsoft, uh, you know,

542
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: putting a bing app in the app store. The It's

543
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: just funny to me after all the years of Microsoft

544
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: versus Apple. But we'll talk about that later. We should

545
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: talk about let's just take this up plus one plus

546
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: one plus one, Google's plus one right where you can

547
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: like anything on the web. Well, before we get to that,

548
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I know we're running out of time and

549
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to rush through this last one, but

550
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: there's still some other stuff I want to talk about

551
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: really quickly about Apple on Apple and the reason is

552
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: that there are a couple of other fronts where they

553
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: are they are competing. Again, You've got the chromos coming out,

554
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: so you've got Google potentially competing against Apple products. And

555
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: when you talk about that that's a huge thing because

556
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: Apple does these high end computers. Right. They're expensive, but

557
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: they're gorgeous and they work and they're you know, but

558
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: it's it's almost like a boutique kind of purchase, right,

559
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: because they're there. It's almost like an exclusivity sort of thing.

560
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: Google is doing the Chromos where all the hard heavy

561
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: lifting is going to be on the the the back

562
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 1: end side, so you don't need a really powerful machine.

563
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: So in theory you can buy a pretty cheap computer

564
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: running the Chrome os. So that's an opposite approach from

565
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: what Apple takes, so that they're going to compete in

566
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: that space. You've also got Google where they launched the

567
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: Chrome web browser, yes versus Safari, right, and Chrome already

568
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: has I think, depending again upon whom you read, Chrome

569
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: has a higher market share than Safari does in web browsing.

570
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I know people who have Matt computers who

571
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: they were so happy when Chrome came out for the

572
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: Mac because they were not huge Safari fans. I'm one

573
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: of them. And then then you also have YouTube that's

574
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: renting movies now, which looks like it's competing against Apple iTunes.

575
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: And then there's Google Music, which will be competing with

576
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: the Apple Music Service as well as the Amazon Cloud Player.

577
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, you've got we We're not going to talk

578
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: about Google versus Amazon. We could. We can also talk

579
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: about Google versus Netflix. We can talk about Google versus

580
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: just about anybody. We only have one other company we

581
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: want to talk about. We're gonna go really fast because

582
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: this episode's going long. Yeah, it was. It was earlier

583
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: this year, not so far before we recorded this. Yeah,

584
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: when they announced the well, I was thinking about the

585
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: plus one feature, and this is I think this sets

586
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: up what we're about to talk about because suddenly, you

587
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: know how Facebook a few years ago one because it

588
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: was maybe a couple of years ago, came out with

589
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: the ability to use their APIs, their application programming interface,

590
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: and you could install it on your web browser and

591
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: have people like stuff on Facebook on your own web

592
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: page if you wanted to. Well, that was pretty cool, right,

593
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: So if you had a Facebook account and more than

594
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: five million people do um probably more than that. Now

595
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: I might be able to make that six million, But

596
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: you incorporate that into a web page and then suddenly

597
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 1: someone from Facebook says, oh I like this, they like it,

598
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: it shares it on their wall and then all of

599
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: their friends can come and read your page. It just

600
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: meant that there was an additional way to funnel people

601
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: in to see your content, which is interesting because previously

602
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: the way that people would come and see content there

603
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 1: are two main ways. Right, they would come to some

604
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: sort of homepage to a site where they visit over

605
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: over and over again, or they would use search. Well,

606
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: now you've got a third way, which is socially driven

607
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: of avenues to get to content. So either you share

608
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: it on Facebook where you say, hey, there's this great website,

609
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: go here, or you go to a website that has

610
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: that incorporated like button and it does it for you,

611
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: and then your buddies all say, oh, well, Jonathan liked

612
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: this one website, we should check that out and see

613
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: what that's all about. So, in a way, that was

614
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: a shot across the ballot, across all the search engines,

615
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: because now you're saying, you, guys, used to be relevant,

616
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: but now we're going to take that away from you,

617
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: because we're going to have it where people find information

618
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: organically through their their social connections, not through just going

619
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: to a search engine and typing in some words. So

620
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: that was a yeah, that was a wake up call UM,

621
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: and Google answered, you know, you can do that when

622
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: you have deep pockets and your employees can all spend

623
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: their time working on UM with the plus one system.

624
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: Uh So suddenly now Google was competing because you can

625
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: you know plus one basically me, Hey, I like that too, Yeah,

626
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: that link, that link is really useful. So I'm going

627
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: to say that out of all the search results I

628
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: got for this particular query, this is the one that

629
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: I think is the best. I'm gonna plus one that.

630
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: And then when one of your friends comes on, someone

631
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: who has a you know, who's one of your contacts,

632
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: comes on and does a similar search, they're going to

633
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: see that if they get their search result page up,

634
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: they're going to see the search results that got the

635
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: most plus ones from their friends. And again it's kind

636
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: of like a socially driven thing, and they can even

637
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: see like which of their friends plus one did, so

638
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: they'd say, oh, what, you know, Jonathan was searching for

639
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: uh fluid dynamics and so that this one video on

640
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: non Newtonian fluid was really cool, So I wanna I

641
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: want to check this out, and then you could plus

642
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: one it and then it again it's socially. Yeah, it's

643
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: socially driving up the search is Now someone else coming

644
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: in and searching that same query may not see that

645
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: because they're not your contact. So it's it's it's not

646
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: it's not like wild wet out there. It's not gonna

647
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: completely uh game the system for Google search results, because

648
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: that's one thing Google does not want to do is

649
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 1: mess with their algorithms so much that it becomes useless.

650
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: But it did. Um you know, people were saying, some

651
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: of the tech journals were saying, look, this might be

652
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: uh something that will play into Google's maybe possibly finally

653
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: announced social networking tool. I mean, you had or Cut,

654
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: but it really didn't take off like you thought, and

655
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: people have been waiting for this thing for I don't

656
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: know years. I would say, yeah, Ork it was a

657
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: social network like Facebook. Actually it is a social network.

658
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: It's not gone now. ORC It's very popular in places

659
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: like Brazil and India, but never got widespread global adoption

660
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: like Facebook did. So. Google has already had a history

661
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: of competing with Facebook with things like orch It, but

662
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: it was Ork. It was such a tiny blip on

663
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: the radar from most of the world that we don't

664
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: even really think about them competing because there was no competition, right,

665
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, if you've got someone who has the followers,

666
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: you don't think of it as competition. Well I didn't,

667
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: but apparently Facebook did because there again, as as Jonathan mentioned, right,

668
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: not right before, but shortly before we recorded this, a

669
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: scandal came to light. Yeah. Facebook, Um, it turns out

670
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: Facebook hired a PR firm called person Mars Stellar, a

671
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: very well known and and pretty well respected firm. Yeah, well,

672
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: used to be respected. Yeah, it was still well known,

673
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: might be even better known now. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, the

674
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: PR firm. Facebook hired this PR firm in order to

675
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: pitch stories to bloggers and newspapers that would put Google

676
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: in a bad light, specifically with this socially motivated um

677
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: search and social circle services that Google's pushing. Uh. They

678
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: wanted specifically respect to privacy and how Google handles privacy

679
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: and talk about pot calling the kettle black. We've got Facebook,

680
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: which is not known for being a great protector of privacy,

681
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: saying hey, Google's really you know, putting your privacy at danger.

682
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: We want these stories to get out there. So this

683
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: PR firm started to approach various people. One of the

684
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: people had approached was Christopher. Uh uh, oh gosh, I

685
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: don't even know how to say his last name. I'm

686
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: gonna say Safoyan, but it could be totally wrong. It's

687
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: s O G H O I A N. So that's

688
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: an interesting Chris, if you're out there, let me know. Anyway,

689
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: the Christopher had received a request from the PR firm

690
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: about this, and instead of running the story that the

691
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: PR firm wanted them to run about Google's uh social

692
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: uh social circle invading privacy, he ran the email that

693
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: the PR firm sent him. He published, he published it

694
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 1: on his blog, showing that this PR firm was trying

695
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: to engineer this this smear campaign USA Today, same sort

696
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: of thing. USA Today got a request for a story

697
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: pitch about a similar kind of thing, and instead they

698
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: decided to publish a story about the smear campaign. And

699
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: that's when the story really broke across all channels. And

700
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: uh then later on the PR the PR firm itself

701
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: was caught removing negative comments from its own Facebook page

702
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: and that helped spurn the the scandal even further. And uh,

703
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, if you're wondering about the social circle thing,

704
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of this way that Google shows the people

705
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: you're connected to through various means like Twitter and and

706
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: Google Contacts and all this kind of stuff, and then

707
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: it shows the larger circle that you're connected to from

708
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: people who are connected to the people that you're you

709
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: that are in your your social circle. So, for example,

710
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: one of the people in my social circle, and it's

711
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: only because I follow her on Twitter as far as

712
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: I can tell, is Felicia Day or actually Google Buzz.

713
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: I think it's because I follow her on Google Buzz

714
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: is Felicia Day. But because it's Felicia Day, that means

715
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: that that extra that next step in the social circle

716
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: is enormous. But has lots of people follow Felicia Day,

717
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: So that means that my information is also on display

718
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: for all those people. But this is information that is public.

719
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: It is information that you have willingly shared and allowed

720
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: to be public on whatever network like Google Buzz or whatever.

721
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: So in other words, it's not like it's digging up

722
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: information that is behind some sort of security. It's just

723
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: stuff that's already out there. So that that's the argument

724
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,439
Speaker 1: that other people have against uh Facebook's approach was that, well,

725
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: Google is just sharing stuff that you've already opted to share.

726
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: It's not like it's sharing information that you didn't you know,

727
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: you said do not share this. So um, yeah, it's

728
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: definitely a big, big, explosive problem. And you know what,

729
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: Facebook and Google have had a long history of struggles.

730
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: I mean there's none of them were direct struggles like

731
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: open i D. Yes, Google backed open i D and

732
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: open i D was this idea of creating a single

733
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: log in kind of account and you would use that

734
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: across multiple websites. Facebook at the same time was pushing

735
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: Facebook Connect, which is similar except it wasn't based on

736
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: open standards like open i D and it was into Facebook. Yes,

737
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: so it benefited Facebook, but it would also benefit any

738
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: site that used Facebook Connect because it meant that you

739
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: were tapping into a social network that had over five

740
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: hundred million users. So it's there's no there's really no

741
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: surprise when Facebook Connect came out on top, because even

742
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: if you argue that open i D was the better

743
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: choice from just a consumer safety standpoint or from a

744
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: kind of a disinterested objective standpoint, from a let's get

745
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: business done standpoint, Facebook Connect made all the sense in

746
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: the world. Alright, Well, we have gone forty minutes with

747
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: this podcast, so I suggest we wrap it up now.

748
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: We again, we could have talked about lots of other

749
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: rivalries Google has going on, and we probably will do

750
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: another episode at some point just about Google, although I

751
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: would suggest our next tech rivalry episode, b face, you know,

752
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: focus on a different company entirely. Um, and we we've

753
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: talked about similar rivalries in the past, like I said,

754
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: not just Tesla and Edison, but things like you know,

755
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: we've done Microsoft and Apple, and we've done a few others.

756
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: But I think that this is a fun kind of

757
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: thing to talk about, really look at the two sides

758
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: and kind of see what their strategies were and their

759
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: their motivation for acting the way they did. Yeah. I think,

760
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: well it's one of those central points in uh in

761
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: any story, as you need some kind of conflict. So

762
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons that we find

763
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: this so fascinating. Yes, now that we've reached the Danu law, Yes,

764
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: let us conclude. Here is our epilogue. If you would

765
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: like to hear about a specific tech rivalry, let us know.

766
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: You can send us an email. That address is tech

767
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: stuff at how stuff works dot com, or contact us

768
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook are handled. There is tech stuff H.

769
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: S W and Chris and I will talk to you again,

770
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: possibly about a rivalry really soon. Be sure to check

771
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 1: out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join

772
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising

773
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 1: and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The House Stuff Works iPhone

774
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes, brought to

775
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready,

776
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: are you