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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust Me.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a squat person.

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Speaker 5: I've never lived.

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Speaker 2: To you, I never If you think that one person

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Speaker 2: has all the answers, don't welcome to trust Me. The

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Speaker 2: podcast about Gold's extreme belief manipulation from two troubled adults

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Speaker 2: who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 6: I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today is part two of our interview with Zoe and Lily,

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Speaker 2: survivors of Midwest Academy, one of the abusive Trouble Team

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Speaker 2: programs in the same organization that was spotlighted in the

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Speaker 2: docu series The Program cons Colts and Kidnapping. Last week

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Speaker 2: we discussed Zoe's time in solitary confinement at the Academy

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Speaker 2: at Ivy Bridge and when it was like moving to Midwest,

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Speaker 2: and today we'll talk more about Lily's experience. She'll tell

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Speaker 2: us how she was in solitary confinement for two months

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Speaker 2: and how her reaction was to rebel in any way

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Speaker 2: she could.

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Speaker 1: We'll also get into how they both left and how

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Speaker 1: no one believed them for years in some cases up

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Speaker 1: until just last month, how this was and still is

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Speaker 1: a multi billion dollar industry, and where they're both at

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Speaker 1: and their healing journey. So check out the program on

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Speaker 1: Netflix and keep listening to our conversation with them.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, before we get into it again with them and

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Speaker 2: warning y'all, this is quite harrowing stuff. Once again, they

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Speaker 2: have been through a lot. But before we get into it, Megan,

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Speaker 2: can you tell me your cultiest thing of this week?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure if you've been following. I mean

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Speaker 1: also trigger warning for abuse. Ruby Frankie's journey, the mom

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Speaker 1: blogger in Utah who was arrested for abusing her children.

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Speaker 1: Have you been following this story at all? No, Well,

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Speaker 1: she started working with this woman named Jody Hildebrandt, and

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Speaker 1: Jody has something this program called Connections.

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Speaker 6: She basically takes couples and puts.

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Speaker 1: Them through this intensive program that turns out to be

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Speaker 1: very abusive and Ruby let her essentially take her two

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Speaker 1: youngest children to her house. So all of this footage

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Speaker 1: came out in the last couple weeks of them getting

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Speaker 1: these two youngest kids out of the house. And it

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Speaker 1: is so awful, Like, first of all, this woman lives

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Speaker 1: in a mansion.

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Speaker 6: It's unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: It's like spic and span, so huge, and these kids

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Speaker 1: are starving.

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Speaker 6: There's food everywhere. They've starved the kids so.

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Speaker 1: Bad, and there's like a person like everyone there is

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Speaker 1: crying because it's so awful.

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Speaker 6: They've duct taped the little boys.

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Speaker 1: Like wounds shut and put honey on them to like

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Speaker 1: try to close them.

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Speaker 6: And like he got out and ran away and went

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Speaker 6: to a neighbor's house.

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Speaker 1: Apparently beyond that, the husband of Ruby, who I think

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Speaker 1: was sentenced to thirty years in jail. They're both going

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Speaker 1: to jail for a very long time. Her husband was

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Speaker 1: estranged from his wife because of this program she did.

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Speaker 1: But while they were still together, Jody, the woman whose

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Speaker 1: program was running, came and stayed with them, and he

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Speaker 1: said she claimed to be possessed and he had to

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Speaker 1: be her exorcist, and that when she would go into

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Speaker 1: a trance, stuff would start flying around their house. They'd

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Speaker 1: hear weird sounds and he would have to give her

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Speaker 1: blessings to get the lights to stop flickering and all

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Speaker 1: these light loud noises to go away and all of

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Speaker 1: this bizarre stuff, and it's just crazy.

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Speaker 6: The like Frenzy, he's an engineer.

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Speaker 2: This is her ex husband.

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Speaker 6: They were estranged, but they had not divorced.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but he's not like a believer like an actor.

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Speaker 6: No follower, Oh oh yeah yeah, yeah no.

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Speaker 1: But he's like in his interview, he's like talking to

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Speaker 1: the police and he's like, I'm an.

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Speaker 6: Engineer, Like I'm a smart man.

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Speaker 1: I saw these things, like I ever, like I believe

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Speaker 1: that she was possessed. And it's just like when groups

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Speaker 1: of people start really believing things. I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: think you can like actually make weird shit, like if

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Speaker 1: like enough people believe.

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Speaker 6: Oh I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, I'm like, oh, I wonder what like program she

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Speaker 2: put into her light system, or like how deeply she

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Speaker 2: made him meditate or.

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Speaker 1: They were at their she was at their house, well

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Speaker 1: sure so, yes, but of course she was probably of

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Speaker 1: course she was probably doing something psychotic. She's crazy, But

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Speaker 1: these kids were practically dead.

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Speaker 2: But and so why so the person, the mom who

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Speaker 2: sent them there? What why? How did that happen?

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Speaker 1: Because she wanted them to be better behaved and Jody

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Speaker 1: was like, well, then give them to me.

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Speaker 2: So how did she know Jody because she was part

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Speaker 2: of her program. Oh I see, I see, Oh my god. Wow.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't recommend watching the footage. I just got caught

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Speaker 1: up in a k hole of true crime and it

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Speaker 1: popped up, and it's a fascinating story. I would love

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Speaker 1: to get people's feedback on what they think was actually

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Speaker 1: happening in this little world that they created.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'm struggling today with the news. I'm struggling

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Speaker 2: today with besides the mass man made starvation that's happening

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Speaker 2: and Gauza, I'm struggling with the seven AID workers being killed.

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Speaker 2: I'm struggling with Al Shiva Hospital being destroyed. I'm struggling

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Speaker 2: with the fact that we're still sending weapons with no conditions.

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Speaker 2: I'm having a hard time with that today. But I

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Speaker 2: did find a story that's politically related but also cultic

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Speaker 2: thinking related. So a Russian bar owner who is gay

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Speaker 2: was arrested in Russia for extremism because of being LGBTQ

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Speaker 2: and facilitating a queer space for people, and it was

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Speaker 2: the charge was quote organizing extremist activities because there were

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Speaker 2: drag shows that were hosted there. Oh my god, is

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Speaker 2: so crazy. The Russia Supreme Court ruled that the international

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Speaker 2: public this is a quote international public LGBT movement is

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Speaker 2: an inherently extremist organization. In November, and they're starting to

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Speaker 2: arrest people for running Pride flags, for doing anything that's

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Speaker 2: showing their queerness publicly, and they're calling anything that's like

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Speaker 2: talking about gender affirming healthcare or anything queer related as

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Speaker 2: propaganda and extremism. So that is just the ultimate example

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Speaker 2: of hijacking language and using it the absolute wrong way,

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Speaker 2: using it basically like as a way of telling on

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Speaker 2: themselves of what they're actually doing, which is extremism. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's fascinating to me how this language gets sort of

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Speaker 2: hijacked and then people start using it to justify any

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Speaker 2: kind of punishment they want against people whose lifestyle or beliefs,

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Speaker 2: or gender or sexuality they don't agree with. It is

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Speaker 2: the problem.

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Speaker 1: We've got a few of them. If y'all haven't noticed,

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Speaker 1: the world's full of a few problems, just a few.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, the world is on fire. But at least this

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Speaker 2: documentary came out and is shedding light on a small

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Speaker 2: fraction of abuses that are happening in the world, and

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Speaker 2: we will hear a lot more about them in a second.

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Speaker 2: And once again, it is real tough stuff, so be prepared, Lily.

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Speaker 2: What was your experience in terms of the levels and

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Speaker 2: where you ended up.

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Speaker 7: I never made it past level too.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay.

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Speaker 4: I just got tired of faking it and I was

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Speaker 4: just like, yeah, this isn't right. What you're doing to

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Speaker 4: us isn't right. There was one time when we were

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Speaker 4: in gym. They always forced us to do jim. They

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Speaker 4: never tried to get out of it. But there was

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Speaker 4: this one particular time where unfortunately I was on my

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Speaker 4: period and my breasts were hurting really bad, and they

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Speaker 4: just gave us crappy sports bras and I was like,

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Speaker 4: can I please just not run a whole bunch of

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Speaker 4: laps today?

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Speaker 7: Like I'll walk them, you know, but can I not run?

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Speaker 7: And they threatened me.

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Speaker 4: With a refusal consequence, which is a category four, which

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Speaker 4: would have meant that I would have been put in

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Speaker 4: an intervention and I wanted lost all my points. I

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Speaker 4: got upset. So I turned and looked at the staff

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Speaker 4: member and I told her to fuck off.

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Speaker 2: Oh I mean, I am pressed with you. Your with

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Speaker 2: your balls, okay.

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Speaker 8: To say a book off. The entire time she was

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Speaker 8: there waiting to say it. And so I ended up

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Speaker 8: getting put in intervention. I was an intervention for two months.

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Speaker 4: I did get out for one day, and in that

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Speaker 4: whole process I ended up just making their life a

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Speaker 4: living hell.

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Speaker 7: So they put me back in and I, you know,

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Speaker 7: I was just like, I don't care. I'll sit in

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Speaker 7: a room.

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Speaker 4: What are you gonna do me, you know, other than

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Speaker 4: restrain me, and refused to allow me to shower, very

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Speaker 4: very limited bathroom breaks.

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Speaker 7: We ate, so for.

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Speaker 4: Breakfast we got like a small thing of stale cereal,

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Speaker 4: and for lunch at dinner we got two peanut butter

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Speaker 4: and jelly sandwiches, a fruit and a small cart and

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Speaker 4: of milk. And to this day I cannot eat grape

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Speaker 4: jelly or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: And then after about two months, I got really fed up.

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Speaker 4: I was shouting my rights as an American at them,

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Speaker 4: broke the door handle I tried to escape a few times,

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Speaker 4: and then.

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Speaker 7: Mike so I grew up with my dad. He is

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Speaker 7: a blue collar man.

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Speaker 4: And in the girl's intervention rooms, they had plywood on

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Speaker 4: the walls all the way around to try to deter

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Speaker 4: girls from punching holes in the walls. And as I

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Speaker 4: sat back, I was looking at the wall and I

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Speaker 4: realized that none of the screws had any uniformity to

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Speaker 4: them at all, which means that none of the screws

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Speaker 4: were in the studs.

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Speaker 7: And I was sixteen years old at this point.

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Speaker 2: Never know I would never know that, Okay.

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Speaker 4: So I grabbed the sheet of plywood on the wall

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Speaker 4: and ripped the sheet completely off the wall, compromising the

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Speaker 4: entire structure of the room, and then I was forced

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Speaker 4: to leave.

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Speaker 7: They called the police on me.

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Speaker 4: And the officer showed up and he's like, we could

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Speaker 4: take you to Juvie. I'm like, take me, please, take

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Speaker 4: me to jew Get me out.

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Speaker 2: Of here right, Oh my god.

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Speaker 4: But then they called my dad and they were like,

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Speaker 4: you need to come get your child. She is violent.

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Speaker 4: And his response was, well, she wasn't violent when I

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Speaker 4: sent her. You guys deal with it, and they're like, no,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna come and get her and that's and that's

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Speaker 4: how you out of the program. In total, I spent

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Speaker 4: three months in Mexico and then I was there for

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Speaker 4: the raid, the shut down, the transfer, and then I

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Speaker 4: was in six months in Midwest campin.

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Speaker 2: Hold on what I have more questions to followup on

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Speaker 2: what you just said, But what's the raid? I don't

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Speaker 2: know about the raid.

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Speaker 4: So in two thousand and four, CASA was raided by

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Speaker 4: the Mexican government the sat rallies because they were abusing

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Speaker 4: us and giving us expired medication and just torturing us,

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Speaker 4: and the Mexican government got wind of it.

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Speaker 7: So the whole facility.

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Speaker 4: Was raided and shut down and we were told that us,

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Speaker 4: as children in the facility, we were told that either

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Speaker 4: our parents were going to pick us up escorts were

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Speaker 4: going to take us to another program, or that we

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Speaker 4: were going to go into foster care. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I mean in the documentary you see kids, it's like

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Speaker 1: on the news, some kids are running into the jungle,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what happened to that? Like, was

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Speaker 1: everybody reaccounted for?

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Speaker 4: That was Dundee Ranch got you got you know, we

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Speaker 4: were going to completely lock down like there were walls

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Speaker 4: all around us.

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Speaker 7: We could not get wow.

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Speaker 6: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So Mexico took a stand and actually did something about it.

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Speaker 2: But here in the US we didn't give up up crazy. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So then you ended up at Midwest got it? And

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Speaker 2: I just want to know a little bit more about

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Speaker 2: your time I'm in intervention, because that's a really long

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Speaker 2: time to not be doing anything, Like did you have schoolwork?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 7: Nothing, no school work?

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Speaker 4: You literally just sat there you were supposed to sit

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Speaker 4: in a structure and just switches like you know, your

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Speaker 4: hands in a diamond in your lap, straight up, shoulders back.

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Speaker 7: Straight, and sometimes if you were really good, they'd give

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Speaker 7: you a chair.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes don't even have a fucking chair. This is so

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Speaker 2: batshit crazy.

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Speaker 5: No mattress, no pillows, no blanket.

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Speaker 4: Nope, they give you the matches that night they come

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Speaker 4: and take it in the morning lights on twenty four

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Speaker 4: to seven?

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Speaker 2: Where does your mind?

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Speaker 1: Where does your mind go to? And these like what

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Speaker 1: what are you thinking?

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Speaker 7: It goes anywhere but where you are?

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Speaker 4: Yep?

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Speaker 2: Did you feel crazy? Because I feel like I would

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Speaker 2: start to lose my mind, like I know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know people really do in isolation in prison like mentally,

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Speaker 2: like yeah.

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Speaker 4: Start to feel crazy for sure. I just started getting angry,

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Speaker 4: and I was going to make sure that if they

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Speaker 4: were going to make my life a living all that

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Speaker 4: I was going to do the exact thing.

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Speaker 2: So, so, are you spending all day like plotting like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: how can I kind of get back at them? How

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Speaker 2: can I show some autonomy and some power? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 2: But what else do you Where else is your mind

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Speaker 2: supposed to go? I mean like there's yeah, your choices

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Speaker 2: are like break and submit and let this happen to me,

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Speaker 2: or like find some way to feel like a human

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Speaker 2: person who has some power over her life. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you're completely powerless in that moment. It makes sense to

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Speaker 2: me that you'd be like revenge fuck these people, and you're.

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Speaker 9: Basically powerless to everything. The entire time you're in there,

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Speaker 9: whether you're an intervention or you're out in the you know,

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Speaker 9: in the families out and with everybody else. We didn't

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Speaker 9: have power for anything, I mean anything, Yeah, I mean you.

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Speaker 2: Even have the power to talk to your family and

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Speaker 2: in any way.

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Speaker 7: To our family.

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Speaker 4: Everything was monitored. Our letters were monitored, they were censored,

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Speaker 4: not sent out. Sometimes yep. And then if we said

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Speaker 4: something that they didn't like in the letters, we would

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Speaker 4: get in trouble for that.

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Speaker 1: I think you kind of touched on it. But what

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Speaker 1: was your thought process in isolation? How was it different?

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Speaker 5: I said, I just I was just losing it. I

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Speaker 5: just lost it. I for the first few days, I said,

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Speaker 5: I was just sad. I was trying to get out

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Speaker 5: of the room.

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Speaker 9: I kept telling them I was claustrophobic, so I was

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Speaker 9: banging on doors, I was banging on walls.

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Speaker 5: I was trying to peel pieces of the walls off.

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Speaker 9: I definitely did try to cut my wrist a few

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Speaker 9: times with.

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Speaker 5: Pieces of the walls that I peeled off.

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Speaker 9: And then you know, going from that to being restrained

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Speaker 9: held on the floor, you know, while they quickly taped

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Speaker 9: the walls back up, and it's just after they don't

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Speaker 9: seem to even care. It's just like it was just

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Speaker 9: a process for them. It's like, oh, we've seen this before,

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Speaker 9: this is how we handle it. And it didn't matter

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Speaker 9: how much you cried or screamed or yelled or kicked

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Speaker 9: or punched. It was like you either you have to

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Speaker 9: do what they tell you to do or just accept

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Speaker 9: the fact that you're going to live in this box.

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Speaker 2: Have either of you spoken to anyone who was on

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Speaker 2: the staff since this experience.

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Speaker 5: That'd be Lily, and she has.

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Speaker 4: So I took my revenge to after I got out,

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Speaker 4: because I felt that it was necessary to expose what

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Speaker 4: was going on in these because what was done forms

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Speaker 4: wasn't right. I started fighting. I got out in two

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Speaker 4: thousand and five. I started fighting back in two thousand

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Speaker 4: and seven till current day. Eventually I was actually able

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Speaker 4: to get a staff member undercover into Midwest Academy.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And then he was there for about nine months, and

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Speaker 4: then everything was reported to Des Moines because you cannot

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Speaker 4: report to the area that the school is in because

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Speaker 4: they buy off the sheriffs, they buy off dhs. They

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Speaker 4: so your report literally goes nowhere.

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Speaker 1: They've also bought off the government essentially. Yes, what that's

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Speaker 1: important tonight?

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Speaker 2: What part of the government?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean Robert Litchfield ran with Mitt Romney on

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Speaker 4: his board the first time mit Romney ran for president.

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Speaker 4: The second time Mitt Romney ran for president, he actually

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Speaker 4: had mel Semblar as his treasurer. And mel Sembler ran

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Speaker 4: an operated straight ink, which is another string of really

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Speaker 4: abusive boarding facilities. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: So when I got the staff member out after about

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Speaker 4: nine months, everything was reported and that's what began the

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Speaker 4: FBI investigation. So by the time that the girl came

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Speaker 4: out in twenty sixteen with her allegations against Ben Train,

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Speaker 4: the then owner and operator of the school, that's why

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Speaker 4: the FBI jumped so fast and rated.

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Speaker 7: The facility so fast.

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Speaker 2: So can you talk a little bit about what this

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Speaker 2: staff member who was undercover. I just want to know

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Speaker 2: if we know anything about what their mentality was at

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Speaker 2: the time, Like, because they are performing psychological torture on children,

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Speaker 2: so like what, well, how are they justifying that to themselves?

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Speaker 4: So the staff member that I had undercover was actually

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Speaker 4: the father of my kids at the time. So while

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Speaker 4: he was in there, he was also talking to kids

359
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Speaker 4: like hey, I'm with a survivor, you know, like secretly

360
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 4: talking to them like it's okay, you know what I mean,

361
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Speaker 4: Like we have to document, you know what I mean,

362
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Speaker 4: Like I'm sorry and all that, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't like actively joining into the psychological torture. It

364
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 4: was just enough to where we could get enough solid

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Speaker 4: information because you never find out what's going on behind

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Speaker 4: the walls. And as Megan said earlier, who's going to

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Speaker 4: believe a bunch of troubled kids even as adults. Now

368
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Speaker 4: we are in our thirties and we're still labeled as

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Speaker 4: these troubled kids. So it's best to get the information

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Speaker 4: from the parents or the staff members. So it was

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Speaker 4: best to have somebody go in undercover. That was with

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Speaker 4: somebody who is a survivor who has dealt with, you know,

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Speaker 4: the surviver waking up screaming from nightmares, panic attacks, anxiety.

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Speaker 4: So he knows exactly what to look for, exactly what

375
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Speaker 4: not to participate in, and everything like that.

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Speaker 2: What did he see Did he get like an up

377
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Speaker 2: close and personal view into the psychology of the other

378
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Speaker 2: staff members?

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Speaker 7: Yes, he did.

380
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Speaker 4: We noticed that at this particular time when he was there.

381
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 4: For the staff members to be able to advance, they

382
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Speaker 4: also had to go through the seminars.

383
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Speaker 1: The layers of cultiness just keep getting like, there's all

384
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Speaker 1: these different cults that people are and because in the

385
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Speaker 1: doc it's like the staff are also number one, not

386
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Speaker 1: educated to do any of these things, no qualification, no qualifications.

387
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Speaker 1: It seems like some of these are in small towns

388
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Speaker 1: where all of the like, it's giving employment to people,

389
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Speaker 1: so they're grateful for the job. They're told that you

390
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Speaker 1: guys are absolutely terrible and that they're kind.

391
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Speaker 6: They're helping you by doing these things, and.

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Speaker 1: There seems to be a level of brainwashing on the

393
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Speaker 1: staffs end as well.

394
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Speaker 4: Oh and then some of the children after they graduate,

395
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Speaker 4: they're offering jobs so they can go back and work

396
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Speaker 4: there too.

397
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Speaker 3: The torture continues, right, Oh God, And so Zoe, what

398
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 3: was the exit process like for you?

399
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Speaker 9: So my parents basically ran out of money.

400
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 5: They were broke.

401
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 9: They had spent close to fifty grand sending me to

402
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 9: this school, and they wanted more money for the next year.

403
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 9: And my parents were like, you know, we have another children,

404
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 9: We're trying to run a business.

405
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Speaker 5: We can't.

406
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 9: So they came and pulled me from the program randomly.

407
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 9: I can't even tell you what day it was, what

408
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 9: time it was. I just remembered that the sun was out,

409
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 9: so they came and got me. I was eating either

410
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 9: breakfast or lunch, I believe, or it was one of

411
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Speaker 9: the meals.

412
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 5: I was eating a meal. Like I said, I don't

413
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Speaker 5: remember what time it day.

414
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,879
Speaker 9: It was, but I was eating a meal and an

415
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 9: upper level, and a staff member came and got me

416
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 9: and said that I had to go on a doctor run.

417
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 9: I was like, okay, Like I never bet on a

418
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Speaker 9: doctor run before, So let's go.

419
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,640
Speaker 5: And I go out and there's my parents. They're like, okay,

420
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Speaker 5: you ready to go home.

421
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 9: Here's all your stuff, and I'm like okay, okay, like

422
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 9: and I just and I left.

423
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Speaker 5: And while I was.

424
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,920
Speaker 9: Excited to be leaving, I was also so so hurt,

425
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 9: so broken, Like I was leaving behind my family, my

426
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 9: best friends, these girls who I shared in group every

427
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 9: day with, who knew me inside and out better than

428
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 9: my parents, better than my best friend's back.

429
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Speaker 5: Home, and then to leave them there knowing that.

430
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 9: They were still there, they were still getting abused, they

431
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 9: were still getting tortured, and I could do nothing and

432
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 9: nobody believed me. Like even when we left, I told

433
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 9: my parents we have to do something, and they're like,

434
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 9: it wasn't that bad. You're fine, We're here, We're going home.

435
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 9: And that was basically the end of the conversation.

436
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 2: Wow, you're just completely alone in this immense, enormous trauma,

437
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: and also the trauma of knowing so many people you

438
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: love are still in trauma. Just completely alone in that

439
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 2: for how long? Like, when did how long did it

440
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: take to finally like start communicating with people who had

441
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,439
Speaker 2: been through the same thing or at least believed you.

442
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Speaker 9: It took years, I had to I guess we only

443
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 9: had like my space and stuff when we first got

444
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 9: out of the programs, so like we were my spacing.

445
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 9: And then Facebook came along, and slowly but surely, like

446
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 9: I was remembering people's first and last names, like, we

447
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 9: didn't know too many people's first and last so it

448
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 9: was hard to find them. And slowly, like I said,

449
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 9: slowly but surely, we were finding each other one by one.

450
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 5: And then groups were.

451
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 9: Created, where then we all started finding the groups and

452
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 9: finding each other. And now we have a huge community

453
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 9: of pretty much every single person who's ever attended Midwest

454
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 9: Academy together on one group.

455
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 3: Wow.

456
00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:00,120
Speaker 9: And that just happened over the course of the last two weeks.

457
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: Wow, dude. Facebook groups are, like it seems like the

458
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 2: primary way that survivors find each other and like find

459
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: a community and realize they're not alone. Facebook has been

460
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: amazing for so many I mean Megan's group that she

461
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 2: was in as well, the two by two. That's how

462
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: that's gone.

463
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: Ninety percent of my deconstruction has come from a Facebook group.

464
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: That's bizarre, And I think it's worth noting that people

465
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 1: in the program who ran the program immediately were like,

466
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: these groups are bad, made some statements such as that,

467
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: of course.

468
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: Of course they did.

469
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 4: We were just disgruntled former students and don't listen to

470
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 4: what we put out online.

471
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 7: That's what they tell the parents.

472
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 2: Now, I'm sorry. Why would a group of students be

473
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: so disgruntled about just a regular as school. Hmm, yeah,

474
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: I wonder that is the question. So, Lily, you were

475
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 2: taken when you left, you said they called the police

476
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: and and then did you go home with your with

477
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: your parents? Was that what it was?

478
00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 5: Your?

479
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 4: Yeah? So the next day they came into my room

480
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 4: and they told me that I had a phone call

481
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 4: with my dad, and you know, I'm like about time.

482
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 4: You know, you guys have been promising me that forever,

483
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 4: and like, why am I supposed to believe you now?

484
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 4: But we left the room and they were walking through

485
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 4: the facility and normally when you take phone calls, you

486
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 4: go to the family rep's office. And he's even at

487
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 4: a level too, Like I knew that that's where you go,

488
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 4: because the other girls were levet the threes, you just know.

489
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 4: But they were not taking there. They were taking me

490
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 4: to a different section of facility. And I walked around

491
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 4: the corner into the parent room and my dad was

492
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 4: sitting on the couch and I proceeded to look at

493
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 4: the staff member and say, you could have just opened

494
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 4: the door and I would have just left. I would

495
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 4: have found my way back to Michigan. Like you like,

496
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 4: I'm not afraid of you guys, but that man I'm

497
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 4: sitting on that couch right there, I'm terrified over him.

498
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 4: And but I looked at him and I was like,

499
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 4: so you're going to take me home? And he's like, no,

500
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 4: they're kicking you out, and I'm like that means I

501
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 4: can't come me uck. They were actually trying to send

502
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 4: me to another facility in Jamaica, but my dad would

503
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 4: not allow it because of everything that happened at Cossa.

504
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 7: He was not going to send me out of the

505
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 7: country again. So my dad ended up taking me home.

506
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: And did you tell him about your experience?

507
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 7: I did.

508
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 4: He also did not believe me. It took years for

509
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 4: my father to believe me. But I have been an

510
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 4: advocate against these schools for over a decade now, and

511
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 4: in doing that, it kind of woke up my dad

512
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 4: and my stepmom and they were able to see what

513
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 4: was going on, and they started doing research for themselves.

514
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 4: Which is one thing that I always stress on people

515
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 4: is do not believe me. Do not just believe what

516
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 4: I say. Research for yourself. See what everyone else is saying.

517
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 4: You know, not just coming from one person, this is

518
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 4: multiple people. And after a while, my dad just started

519
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 4: to believe me, and it really really hit home for

520
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 4: him when Ben Train was found guilty was sentenced to

521
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 4: nine years in prison, because he could no longer escape

522
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 4: the fact that what I was saying was true.

523
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: The question for both of you, I mean your family

524
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: started to believe you. I mean, have they expressed remorse?

525
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: Do they feel bad?

526
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: Like?

527
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: Where are they at with it?

528
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 7: Yeah?

529
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 9: So, like I said, I just just up until two

530
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 9: weeks ago when the documentary came out. My parents watched

531
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 9: it and I still haven't heard from my dad yet,

532
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 9: but my mom immediately was like, I believe you.

533
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I wish I would have believed you.

534
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 9: She felt guilty, she was shameful, she was embarrassed because

535
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 9: she had been taken advantage of two She had just

536
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 9: lost thousands of dollars and for an unaccredited school and

537
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 9: a you know, almost two years where the torture.

538
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean that's that's yes. Like, I think

539
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 2: it could be easy to maybe demonize parents in this situation,

540
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: but you make a really good point, which is that

541
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: they're totally being taken for a ride. They're being told

542
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: that this is going to help, this is a great

543
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 2: place for their kids, their kids need it, and all

544
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: they have to do is sign here for you know, however,

545
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: many thousands of dollars.

546
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 9: I mean, the brainwashing is so deep too on their

547
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 9: side that, like I said, my mom, my mom, up

548
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 9: until she watched it was like, you know, we did

549
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 9: what was best for you, and kept saying that over

550
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 9: and over and over for the last twenty years and

551
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 9: was hardcore believing that, and until she finally got her

552
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 9: eyes opened and was like, oh my god, what my

553
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 9: daughter said was to like and that's all That's all

554
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 9: I ever wanted was for them to believe me. I

555
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 9: didn't care anybody ever heard my story or if anybody

556
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 9: ever believed me.

557
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 5: I just wanted my parents to believe me.

558
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course mine had.

559
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 9: Such a strained relationship because of that, and it was

560
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 9: hard for me to tell my parents things after that

561
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 9: or trust in them or have a.

562
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 5: Slid relationship like we used to.

563
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 9: I'm hoping now that it's out that we can I'm

564
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 9: they know, I'm open to working on things, talking about

565
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 9: anything that they want to talk about.

566
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 5: It's it's like a weight has been lifted.

567
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I hope y'all can start doing

568
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: that repair and kind of reconstruct that relationship because that

569
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: that pay must run really deep and probably will for

570
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: them as well. Now kind of being hit with all

571
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: this information, do we know how much money these programs

572
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: were actually making, Like how lucrative was this business for

573
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: the people at the top.

574
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 7: It's a multi billion dollar industry.

575
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, So they have the money to you know,

576
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 2: lobby lobby people.

577
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 4: So, I mean, if you think about it, they have.

578
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 4: There was bright Way Adolescence Hospital, Cross Creek, Manor, Carolina Springs,

579
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 4: Spring Creek Lodge, Casta by the Sea, Paradise, Hove, Tranquility Bay,

580
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 4: Dundee Ranch by An Packed.

581
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 7: It was anything but.

582
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: Tranquil, I'm sure.

583
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

584
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 4: Paradise was anything but a parentise and then there was

585
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 4: Ivy Ridge, and it just goes on and on and

586
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 4: on and on. So you're thinking, just off the schools

587
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 4: that I've named that are with wasps that I named,

588
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 4: imagine five grand just say, let's say five grand flat

589
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 4: per kid per month, and each school typically holds about

590
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 4: two hundred to three hundred kids.

591
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: Holy shit. Yeah, that is so much.

592
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: Ease that the parents also pay, because when we were there,

593
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 4: my dad was paying an extra ninety dollars a month

594
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: so we could get shampoo, conditioner, toothbairies, toothbrushes which was

595
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 4: all Coldgate dollar store toothpaste, swave of the tampons we

596
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 4: got were like the cardboard applicators. We got literally the

597
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 4: bottom of the bottom. So all the extra fees that

598
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: our parents are paying, we're still going into their path.

599
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 1: I think we kind of touched on it earlier. But

600
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: the kids are doing a lot of the work for free.

601
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: They're paying people minimum wage, No one's credited, and so

602
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: it's just all going to the top of the ladder.

603
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: The kids are doing chores, they're basically like are they.

604
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 7: Don't think I ever seen a staff member pick up

605
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 7: a broom?

606
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 5: No, we did that.

607
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 9: Wow, Okay, I have such OCD now from that place.

608
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 5: Like my job now is a cleaner.

609
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 9: I'm a professional cleaner because I cleaned so much in

610
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 9: the program. I was programmed too clean like that. That's

611
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 9: my job now, and I weirdly love it.

612
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 5: Really, it's like a therapy to me. It's like, I

613
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: don't know, it's it's crazy.

614
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: Was it almost like something to it somewhere to at

615
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: least put your mind at the time? That was not.

616
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 9: It's a way for me to zone out when I

617
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 9: am cleaning. I do not think about anything, nothing, not

618
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 9: a thing. I just clean, right, And I think that

619
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 9: was my way of not thinking about what was happening

620
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 9: to me in the program, just to just zone out

621
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 9: during that time.

622
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: So who are these people who were running like walk

623
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: us through how justice has happened thus far and what

624
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: still remains to happen.

625
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 4: Okay, So the quick rundown is that Robert Litchfield is

626
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: the one who started everything. He actually got his start

627
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,959
Speaker 4: at pro Vo Canyon School and then he started his

628
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 4: own organization. He brought in his family and everything like that.

629
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 4: Typically everyone got their start at either Brightway or Cross

630
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 4: Creek Commander for example. Then train went to school with

631
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 4: Robert Litchfield's sons and then started working at Cross Creek

632
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 4: Manor and then it went from there. Brian valfalua I

633
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 4: Hope I pronounced his last name right, he actually was.

634
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 4: He started at Cross Creek Manor as well, and then

635
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 4: he worked in Paradise Call. When Paradise Cove was raided

636
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 4: and shut down, he then moved to Midwest Academy. He

637
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 4: is the one who originally opened Midwest Academy for Brian

638
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 4: was the director and Ben Train was the assistant director.

639
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 4: He then left to go do something and Ben Train

640
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: took over and then you know, years and years of

641
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 4: build up and survivors coming forward and the girl coming

642
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 4: out about Ben Train sexually assaulting her in twenty sixteen

643
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: is that's when Midwest Academy itself got raided and shut down.

644
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 4: And I'm honestly surprised because typically no one gets charged,

645
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 4: especially high ups, and the program will close and then

646
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 4: a new program will pop up in its place, and

647
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 4: that regular director will be moved to the new program

648
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 4: to starting that. So it's quite a feat that he

649
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 4: actually got charged and sentenced and is currently sitting in prison.

650
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 5: Ah Gloria.

651
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 7: It is wonderful.

652
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: My first shot of dopamine of the day.

653
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's great.

654
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: When I google, when you google Ivy Ridge Academy. Right now,

655
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: there are all these news stories that say DA opens

656
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: investigation into Ivy Ridge Academy, which is all it seems

657
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: coming now from this Netflix documentary. So it seems like

658
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: there's a lot, there's a movement now with a lot

659
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: of awareness. Are there still how many of these are

660
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: still around?

661
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

662
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: So many, there are, very not just WASP. So WASP

663
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 4: has realized that everybody is catching on to them. So

664
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 4: now the biggest thing, Like so when Ben took over,

665
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 4: his biggest thing was we're not lots anymore, We're not

666
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 4: wats but very much they were still lost, but so

667
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 4: they were trying to distance themselves. So now it's a

668
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 4: little harder to pinpoint who's who. But we just play

669
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 4: follow the staff member game.

670
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: They just move around.

671
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 7: Yep, Sunset Bay is still kicking.

672
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: So have they just gotten sneakier at like looking like

673
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: they're owned by different people so they can kind of

674
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: go under the radar, but like then they're still moving

675
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: around the same directors of them.

676
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 4: Yes, Boss got so much bad press and they did

677
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 4: end up survivors and parents did try to sue a

678
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 4: good couple of years ago with a truly lawsuit where

679
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 4: they cited child torture.

680
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 7: They were forcing children to eat their own vomit.

681
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 4: Children have died suicide and other ways, and.

682
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 7: So they were trying really hard to distance themselves from.

683
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 5: Their own name.

684
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 4: And so now the new owners or the current still

685
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 4: owners are just like doing the best they can to

686
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 4: distance themselves.

687
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: Wow. I just can't believe that that could even still

688
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: exist in twenty twenty four, you know, like you would

689
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: think this would be a relic of the past at

690
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: this point. I mean, do you think that they've proved

691
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: any of the practices since then, or like, are there

692
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: stories that are more recent that are still coming out

693
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: that are just as.

694
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 5: Bad worse worse? Yeah, Like what.

695
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 9: Kinds like even even like up until Ben Train was arrested,

696
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 9: the sexually the amount of sexual and to the level

697
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 9: of sexual abuse that was happening at Midwest blew my mind.

698
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 9: Like what we thought we were experiencing on our level

699
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 9: was I don't want to say nothing compared to what

700
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 9: these other girls went through, but it was it didn't

701
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 9: even touch what these girls went through and that was

702
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 9: ten years later.

703
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 2: Wow.

704
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 4: Wow, I clearly got more comfortable with what they were

705
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 4: doing to us to continue further.

706
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: Well, there's no oversight, right, there's like no one is

707
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: there like hr, Like there's.

708
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 7: No OHR is paid off too?

709
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

710
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: Right right, I'm sure peez. This is so crazy. So

711
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: now that y'all have been through this, I mean, like,

712
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: where are you at now and you're healing journeys? How

713
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: are you doing? Well?

714
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 9: It's taken and still taking a lot of time to

715
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 9: deal in process with everything. I guess like right away

716
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 9: when I got out, I realized is that all of

717
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 9: the schooling that I thought that I did at Midwest

718
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 9: was nothing. It was not accredited in any way. So

719
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 9: the graduation that I had at Midwest, saying that I

720
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 9: graduated high school was crap. I either when I got

721
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 9: back into my hometown, I wanted to walk with my

722
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 9: class and they were like, well, you'll have to redo

723
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 9: all of your sophomore in junior year before you can

724
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 9: do that. I'm like what They're like, Yeah, these none

725
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 9: of these credits are you know, we can't accept these.

726
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 9: So it was either redo all high school all over

727
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 9: again in person, or you get your ged so I

728
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 9: hit to start there, get my ged so then I

729
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,479
Speaker 9: was able to get accepted into a college. And even

730
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 9: that was still a process. Like but on top of

731
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 9: all of the triggers that I've acquired, all of the CPTSD,

732
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 9: the anxiety, the OCD, the nightmares, I deal with that

733
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 9: every day on a daily basis. Some days are better

734
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 9: than others, but some days I don't want to leave

735
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 9: my room or my house or see the light of day.

736
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it makes sense, makes sense just for

737
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: what y'all have been through. I mean it's like unimaginable.

738
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 9: And like I said, this documentary just it made us

739
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 9: relive that time all over again.

740
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 5: But now to be able to relive that in.

741
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 9: A free, free area, I guess we were allowed to

742
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 9: express how we felt.

743
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 5: And it took days to get through that documentary.

744
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 9: For me, days I could only watch a few minutes

745
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 9: at a time before I was.

746
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 5: You know, a full panic attack and crying my eyes out.

747
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 7: And oh my god.

748
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 4: The second the second episode, when I started playing the

749
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 4: two thousand and one Space Odyssey, I literally had to

750
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 4: plug my ears and like, as like is it dons

751
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 4: don is a don is done?

752
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 5: There?

753
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 9: I think are major triggers where I will drop to

754
00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 9: my knees.

755
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and these were these songs that they would play

756
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: while you were in Oh my God you were girls,

757
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, it's really brave of you to talk

758
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 2: about it, and especially to talk about it given how

759
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: sensitive it all must be right now with the documentary

760
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,479
Speaker 2: and everything, Like, I just want to, you know, thank

761
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 2: you for sharing with us and for reaching out.

762
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 9: And we thank you because right now is the time

763
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 9: that we have to do it. Now that we finally

764
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 9: have the world's attention and everybody is finally believing our stories.

765
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 9: Now we have to push and push and fight and

766
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 9: keep talking and keep spreading the word.

767
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 5: So that all of these schools can get shut down.

768
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 9: If it wasn't for honestly, Little I probably wouldn't have

769
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 9: said anything. She has been my inspiration to speak up.

770
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 9: She has been the only girl that I know from

771
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 9: Midwest to say anything, to stand up, to go back

772
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 9: to the school after it was shut down, to retrieving

773
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 9: all of our files that were scattered in the hallways,

774
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 9: to you know, publicly naming our attackers and doing something,

775
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 9: and that it took twenty years. It sucks that we're

776
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 9: having to keep doing it.

777
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 4: Now.

778
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,919
Speaker 2: But but there's momentum at least, right, there's something, there's

779
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: a tension. Yeah, thank god, Lily. How has your healing

780
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: journey been, And just also tell us a little bit

781
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: about you know, you've been trying for so long, like

782
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: what has that been like?

783
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 4: So when I got out, like I said, my parents

784
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 4: didn't believing for the longest time, and I just kept

785
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 4: fighting and I didn't care.

786
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 7: I didn't care what anybody said. I knew, I knew

787
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:44,959
Speaker 7: what they were doing. Trust was wrong.

788
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 4: No one deserved what we went through, no adults, let

789
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 4: alone children, because at the end of the day, we

790
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 4: were children.

791
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 7: Yeah we could have.

792
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 4: Been trouble teens or whatever, but most of us didn't

793
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 4: have a criminal record, most of us were not court ordered.

794
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 7: We were not really that bad of kids.

795
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: And I just I kept pushing and pushing and fighting

796
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 4: back and doing whatever I could to expose what was

797
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 4: going on.

798
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 7: I ended up starting safety in Schools.

799
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 4: I do video blogs, I expose facilities all in the industry.

800
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 4: I focus on mental health, the CPTSD, anxiety, the long

801
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 4: term effects of social isolation, and all of that.

802
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 7: I do.

803
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 4: Also I work as the lead researcher and investigator at

804
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 4: icapinnetwork dot org, and we're currently focused on legislation to

805
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 4: try to make it harder for these places to operate

806
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 4: and move forward and making it so like with one

807
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: school shuts down the owner and then can't just jump

808
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 4: to anyone and start, you know, the process all over again.

809
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 4: Like we're working very hard to try to save as

810
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 4: many lives as we can because the unfortunate side effect

811
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 4: of these programs is not just deaths and suicides in

812
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 4: these programs, but it is the suicides and ods that

813
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 4: happen a after we come out of them. We have

814
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 4: lost so many survivors, just su aus We just lost

815
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 4: another one just a couple of months ago that both

816
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 4: me and Megan we're in with.

817
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 7: We are losing our people. We cannot survive this.

818
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 4: Children were not metical through this amount of brainwashing in torture,

819
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 4: because essentially that's what it is.

820
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 7: It is torture.

821
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it is.

822
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 7: Yeah.

823
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 2: Well, I commend you and for keeping this fight going

824
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: for so long and so multifaceted, coming at it from

825
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: all angles. It's incredible. It's so impressive. And yeah, I

826
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: mean I just like any time anyone has comes out

827
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: with that level of trauma. Of course that's going to

828
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 2: disrupt the rest of their lives. And that separate from

829
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: the fact that they also don't have a high school degree,

830
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: and so now they have to start their lives over

831
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: and how do you you know, like, what do you

832
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: do then? Like they just run?

833
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 4: Actually on disability now because I cannot hold down a

834
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 4: job because of what was done to me there and

835
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: the trauma that I have gone through, I can no

836
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,959
Speaker 4: longer function as an actual adult in society to work

837
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 4: a proper job. So I am on disability now because

838
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: of this. The rest of my life is ruined, you know,

839
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 4: because of this?

840
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: And is there a law Is there a lawsuit? Is

841
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: there a class action lawsuit happening where survivors would get

842
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 2: compensation of any kind?

843
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 7: None that I'm aware of.

844
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 4: But the problem with that is is that for a

845
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 4: lot of us, the statue of limitations is up for us,

846
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 4: so there's almost nothing we can do. So we spent

847
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 4: the majority of the time during the time where we

848
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 4: could have sued, dealing with nobody else believing us, everyone

849
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 4: gaslighting us, saying that it wasn't that bad, saying that

850
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 4: we were just manipulating, we were being dramatic, so nobody

851
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 4: really stood up.

852
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 2: Statutes of limitations are arbitrarily decided by the law and

853
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: can be lifted temporarily by the law, which has happened before.

854
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 2: It happened to New York for sexual assault survivors. So

855
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: I fucking hope someone gets on that, because y'all deserve

856
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: your fair compensation all you went through. Yeah, and are

857
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 2: you guys, I hope are you in therapy? Are you

858
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 2: getting are you getting treatments?

859
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: I hope I'm in weekly therapy.

860
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 9: Speaking to the girls who I was in the program

861
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 9: with has been the best therapy I think I could have.

862
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 5: It's also hard.

863
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 4: For us to trust therapists now because we were abused

864
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: in the name of therapy.

865
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 9: I don't I don't trust any therapist really. I've tried.

866
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 9: I did try. I gave it a valid effort, Like

867
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 9: I've tried a few different therapists. It just I just

868
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 9: got the ick every time and I couldn't do it.

869
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, whatever is working for you, I mean

870
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 2: community is honestly, like something we've talked about a bit

871
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 2: on this show too, is there are studies that show

872
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: that the relationship with a therapist is more important than

873
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: the actual like modality that they're using. So if you

874
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 2: are developing that relationship of trust and support with other serves,

875
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: that can be justice.

876
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 7: Right.

877
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: So if people want to learn more, where should they go?

878
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 2: Who can they reach out to? What's the Facebook group?

879
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 4: So they can reach out to WASP Survivors Alliance on Facebook.

880
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 4: That is where survivors, parents and advocates, reporters, all that

881
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 4: goes to that group. The WASP Survivors group itself is

882
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 4: strictly for survivors, so we have a safe space to

883
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 4: go out of public eye so we can deal and

884
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 4: talk about what has happened to us, and others are

885
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 4: there to understand. There is I Kappa Network dot org

886
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 4: as well, where again we focus on the legislation. I

887
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 4: can also be found on Facebook under Safety and Schools

888
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 4: or on YouTube under Safety and Schools, and I'm starting

889
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 4: to build my TikTok for safety and Schools as well.

890
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: Are you saying safe team?

891
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 3: Okay?

892
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 7: No?

893
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 2: Not safety okay? Cool?

894
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 6: Got it?

895
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 2: Accent? I'm a fellow Misha Gander. I Well, thanks so

896
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: so so much for joining us and for sharing with us.

897
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry for everything that you've experienced, but I'm really,

898
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 2: I mean, we are really really proud of y'all for

899
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: coming out and talking about this and getting the word out.

900
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 9: So thank you, yeah, thank you so much for having

901
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 9: us and spreading the word.

902
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 7: Yes, thank you guys, so so much.

903
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: So, Lola.

904
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: Last week we talked a little bit about whether we

905
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: were bad kids. What what we think some possibilities are

906
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: you could do if you have a bad.

907
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 6: Kid, like just some you know, we're not moms.

908
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: We don't know, but I thought today maybe I could

909
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: ask you, like, have you ever Not that it's the same,

910
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: but have you ever been to camp?

911
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 4: So?

912
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: First of all, I was always jealous of like kids

913
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: who got to go to camp every summer because it

914
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: seems so friacking fun to me. Yeah, I didn't have

915
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 2: that experience, but I did go to Mormon camp.

916
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 6: No, what is that?

917
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: Okay?

918
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: So I went to ef Y it's called which now

919
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: I'm forgetting what it stands for.

920
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 6: I let me look everything fun.

921
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeahoo, y'all, it's especially for youth. Ef why. The objective

922
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: of the if Why, according to this website, is to

923
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: strengthen you and their commitment to live the Gospel of

924
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ by providing learning opportunities and wholesome blah blah blah,

925
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: unlike the troubled team camps. I think this is actually

926
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: their goal. And all I really remember, I think maybe

927
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 2: I've talked about this a little bit. I remember that

928
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 2: it was fun to be around young people without my parents,

929
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: because that's all you want at that age. I want

930
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: to say. I was like thirteen, maybe did you do

931
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: any French kissing? I had not kissed anyone yet, and

932
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: I really wanted to, like desperately wanted to. But the

933
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: boy I liked at ef Y I ended up liking

934
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 2: my cousin.

935
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 6: That sounds super Mormon in my brand.

936
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: And so they ended up like going out, which is

937
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: funny because it's like for like two days, but like

938
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 2: they went out instead, and I was so mad for

939
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: like six hours, and then I was like, I love

940
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: my cousin. I should be happy for them. Is honestly

941
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 2: the most mature I've ever been in my life. I've

942
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: never been that mature before or since.

943
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 6: There was something about camp that was good for you.

944
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 6: Then this certain kind of camp, Yes it was yes,

945
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 6: I'd be so.

946
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it was just like a church. It

947
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 2: was just like lots of like scripture study and like

948
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 2: church with your fellow youth. And the memory that I

949
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 2: was referring to that I think I've talked about a

950
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: little bit is that people would go up and bear

951
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: their testimony about how much they knew the Church was true,

952
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 2: and people would be crying. And that was the first

953
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: time I'd ever seen that, not in like a parental

954
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: a parentally guided setting. So that was the first time

955
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 2: I was like, is there something wrong with me that

956
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: I'm not crying? You know. Turns out no, there was

957
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with me, but it felt like it at

958
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: the time. But all in all, ef y I would

959
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: say pretty positive experience.

960
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: I remember going to like a youth group once with

961
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: one of my friends, which was not allowed, but I

962
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: snuck out to go to this youth group thing, and

963
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: like I tried like that. Everybody put their hands in

964
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: the air, you know, like pray to praise, and I

965
00:46:58,920 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: like tried it for a second.

966
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 6: I was like, oh, no, I can't do that.

967
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: I also tried that at other people's churches. Yeah, yea, yeah,

968
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: this is like no, I don't feel this.

969
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 6: I yeah, anyway.

970
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 2: No, that's it. What I really want to do now

971
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 2: is have summer camp for adults, which I know exists,

972
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: but I've never been invited, and I want to do

973
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 2: that and go with all my friends because that seems

974
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 2: fun as fun.

975
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: I think you just have to look it up and

976
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: sign up. I don't think they personally invite you.

977
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 2: Well, sometimes it's like, hey, friends, we're gathering a group, right,

978
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 2: or sometimes people have their weddings at camps, you know,

979
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: which that's fun. Everyone complains about, but it sounds amazing

980
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 2: to me.

981
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'd like that, Yeah, I'd like it. All right, whatever,

982
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: I'll do it. Thanks for listening to another week with us.

983
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you again next week. As always,

984
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: remember to follow your gut, watch out for at flags.

985
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me. I Trust Me is produced

986
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 2: by Kirstin Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delemator.

987
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para and.

988
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: Her theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

989
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

990
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

991
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

992
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

993
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth Eleven on Instagram and Debraham

994
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

995
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word