1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Steph you missed in history class from hot 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: Tracy V. Wilson. Hell, I'm Holly Frying. Today's episode is 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: probably the most requested one in Holly's in my time 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: on the show. It's possible, it's possible we've said this 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: about some other episode and at this point where liars 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: this time, we mean it. It has far superseded anything 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: else we might have said that about. So our first 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: request for it actually became before we even started hosting 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: the show. It was from a listener named Alison, and 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: it was one of the last listener emails that Sarah 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: answered before she passed the reins over to us, and 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: she copied us on her answer. Uh. Since then, just 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: from our email that I still have lying around, we 15 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: got requests from Mallory, Zoe, Jen, Erica Ford, Aaron, Suzie, 16 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: and Jeannette. And there are many, many, many, many many 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: other requests that have come in by a via Facebook 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: and Twitter and even tumbler, but those are all way 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: less searchable than like the archive email locks. So I finally, 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: I am Holly, and in all capital letters said okay, 21 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: we're doing one on the Night Witches, and I think 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, yeah, we weren't avoiding them before we were. 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: We just had other things going on. Well. And part 24 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: of it too is that, you know, we try to 25 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: avoid sort of cultural redundancy, so through being talked about 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: a lot on other sites, but you're getting play and so. 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: And there have been a few times in the last 28 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: couple of years where they have sort of there's suddenly 29 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: been a lot of buzz about them. Uh like when 30 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: when there have been deaths amongst the women that remain, 31 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, those kind of pop up. So at that 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: point it seems extraneous for us to then add to 33 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: the pile, and like it's just gonna get lost. But yeah, 34 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: especially because our production timeline means that we are like 35 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: two weeks behind and that so instead of feeling like, 36 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: here's this thing that's awesome to learn about, it's more like, 37 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: here we are just a little late to the party. 38 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: So a little bit of background on this. Flying was 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: actually a popular hobby in the Soviet Union in the 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: years leading up to World War Two, and at that point, 41 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: paramilitary flying clubs were training people to become pilots. There 42 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: were about a hundred and fifty of these clubs, and 43 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: about a quarter of their members were actually women. This 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: was in part because of Marina Raskova. She had become 45 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: an idol to teenage girls and young women after she 46 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: set a record for women's NonStop distance flying in ninety eight, 47 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: and she was twenty six at that time. Raskova had 48 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: set this record along with two other women, after flying 49 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: a twin engine plane about six thousand kilometers which is 50 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: roughly thirty seven dred miles, and that was from Moscow 51 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: to Komsomolsk on Amoor, which is in the Russian Far East. 52 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: During the flight, the plane started to ice over and 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: the three women started to jettison everything that they could 54 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: in an effort to lighten their load and gain altitude. 55 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: But it wasn't enough, but they were going to crash, 56 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: and so finally Raskova took a compass heading, she marked 57 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: the destination on a map, and then she jettisoned herself. 58 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: She bailed out and survived in the forest for ten 59 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: days before a hunter found her, and then she made 60 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: her way back to Moscow, where she was greeted by 61 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: a cheering throng of supporters. This attempt to set a 62 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: record and Rascova's consequent disappearance got widespread coverage on the 63 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: radio and people were absolutely glued to it. All three 64 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: of the women became heroes. They became known as the 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: Winged Sisters. They were all named heroes of the Soviet Union, 66 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: but Raskova was particularly beloved. People often make comparisons uh 67 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: to the United States love for Amelia Earhart when they 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: talk about Rascova. So thanks to all this interest in flying, 69 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: when Germany attacked the Soviet Union in nineteen forty one, 70 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: there were lots and law of Soviet pilots with lots 71 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: and lots of airtime who all came to volunteer for service, 72 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of them were teenage girls and young women. 73 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: Roughly a third of the trained Soviet pilots at this 74 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: point were women. But when it came to combat, at 75 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: first all the female applicants were rejected and sent home, 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: but that change thanks to Marina Riskova. It was then 77 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: Major Riskova who put out the call for women to 78 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: volunteer to become combat pilots. They would be placed into 79 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: all female regiments. Anyone interested was instructed to write directly 80 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: to her, and she got about two thousand volunteers, a 81 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: pool of candidates that she personally sifted through, narrowed down, 82 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: and she interviewed them herself. And it wasn't just the 83 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: pilots they would need frequently the mechanics and other support 84 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: personnelities regiments. Regiments would be women as well. The volunteers 85 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: traveled to Moscow from some of the most remote parts 86 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union starting in the fall of ninety one, 87 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: and after god Ring in Moscow, they moved to an 88 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: airfield at Angles to train, and they came with basically 89 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: whatever they thought they were going to need for as 90 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: long as they would be out there if they made 91 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: the cut. Because they had they were pretty sure that 92 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: anybody who did make it in was not going to 93 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: get to go home again before they left. Larissa Rassanova 94 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: was one of the women who made it to the 95 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: interview stage. She had actually packed one of her favorite 96 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: dolls before leaving home, but her mother saw it in 97 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: her suitcase and said, Darling, you can't take that with 98 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: you to the war. You're eighteen years old now and 99 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: I love that story. I do too, but I'm like, 100 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: take the doll, It's fine. Larissa Rosanova and Popova, who 101 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: went by Nadia were Raskova's first two recruits to be 102 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: officially selected. When they started their official training in October 103 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: of ninety one, the female recruits formed the hundred and 104 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: twenty second Composite Air Group and eventually they would be 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: sorted into three all female regiments, which were the five 106 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: six Fighter Regiment, the five eight seventh Bomber Regiment, and 107 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: the five eight eight Night Bomber Regiment. Each of them 108 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: had about four hundred women, and most of them were 109 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: between the ages of seventeen and twenty six. And we're 110 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: going to get into the details on these regiments and 111 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: how they were trained, but first, should we have a 112 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: little word from a sponsor. We should do that stupendous 113 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: So to return to the night, which is there have 114 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: been a number of news articles about them that have 115 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: circulated in recent years, a lot of them, as we 116 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: alluded to you at the top of the show, followed 117 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: Nadia Popova's death. In a lot of them imply that 118 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: the entire Soviet military command saw these women recruits as 119 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: a giant joke, and that's not really accurate. The Soviet 120 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: military definitely was not prepared for a bunch of women 121 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: training training for combat. They had never done that before 122 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: at this kind of scale, And there were of course 123 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: people who were opposed to the idea of women serving 124 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: in combat all through their ranks. But a lot of 125 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: the things that modern coverage reads as a huge insult 126 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: to the women was just It was really a byproduct 127 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: of that being the first time that women, a large 128 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: group of women had been recruited into the armed forces 129 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: in the Soviet Union, and the fact that this happened 130 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: during wartime, so things were by necessity tight. So, for example, 131 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: there was no women's barracks at the airfield where they trained, 132 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: so they had to be housed in a nearby school, 133 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: And there were also no women's uniforms. They had to 134 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: make do with men's uniforms. These were generally too big 135 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: for them, although and I love this, since many of 136 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: the women knew how to sow, they could alter those 137 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: uniforms so that they fit more properly. The boots were 138 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: much bigger issues since they couldn't be altered. The women 139 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: would stuff the toes with magazine pages to kind of 140 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: fill them out so their foot wasn't sliding around. Yeah, 141 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: the the women who were the best at tailoring wound 142 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: up with uniforms that really looked quite smart on them. 143 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: And I told Tracy, as we were looking at pictures 144 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: getting ready for this episode, that I want to be 145 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: the Night, which is for how Owen. Yeah. And then 146 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: we could get everybody to be Night, which is for Halloween. Yeah. 147 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: And then I said step one, start with men's uniforms. 148 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: That's my dad's uniform. Yes. So these recruits went through 149 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: a highly compressed six month training period, and although all 150 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: of them knew how to fly already, most of them 151 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: had absolutely no real military experience at all, so it 152 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,239 Speaker 1: really was not unusual for their classroom and flight training 153 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: plus basic military instruction to stretch beyond fourteen hours a day. 154 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: They were definitely immersed in what was widely regarded as 155 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: a world for men, which made it very important to 156 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: many of them that they maintained their femininity. Many had 157 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: brought one pretty outfit with them when they reported for training, 158 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: and they decorated their planes with flowers. They dyed their 159 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: silk under helmets in really pretty colors, and they called 160 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: one another by their first names, trying to remember to 161 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: use surnames and official ranks when the men were about 162 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: But they kind of developed this more casual camaraderie amongst 163 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: just the women. The women were assigned into their regiments 164 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: in April of ninety two, and from there they finished 165 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: their training with the actual planes that they would be flying, 166 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: so they had to get familiar with the controls and 167 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: the handling of those specific aircraft. The five eighty six 168 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: Fighting Regiment flew Yakov Love yak ones, which were the 169 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: best Soviet fighters in the first years of the war. 170 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: Although the way they were constructed made it a little 171 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: hard for the more petite women who both reached the 172 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: pedals and handled the controls, they got used to it, 173 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: though they were all extremely adaptable. The fighter pilots also 174 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: had to get used to working as a team while 175 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: flying in airplanes by themselves. The yak Ones were single 176 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: seat planes, unlike the bombers and the train the planes 177 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: that they have been training on. The five hundred and 178 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: eighty seven Day Bombing Regiment flew Pola Karpov PE two's, 179 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: which were armored bombers with a bubble protected machine gun station. 180 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: In both cases, their actual aircraft were a complete depart 181 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: ture from what they had been training on. Not so 182 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: for the night Witches. Their planes were Paula Karpov PO 183 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: two's originally known as You two's, and these were the 184 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: same planes they had already been training on. They were 185 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: never actually meant to be bombers. These were slow flying 186 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: wooden canvas biplanes with open cockpits that were mostly used 187 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: for training and for crop dusting, and they were so 188 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: slow that they could only fight fly missions to targets 189 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: that were relatively nearby, Otherwise they would waste way too 190 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: much time getting there and getting back, So the planes 191 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: had to be moved from one location to another during 192 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: the day to give the women access to their targets 193 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: at night. Because these were training planes that have been 194 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: pressed in the military service, they had complete sets of 195 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: controls for both the front and back seats. They were 196 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: retrofitted with bomb racks and a small machine gun at 197 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: the rear seat. Those same news articles we referenced earlier 198 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: will often say that the PO two's could only carry 199 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: two bombs, but in fact some of them could carry 200 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: up to eight. So while there were three units, our 201 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: focus really here is on the night, which is so 202 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: we're going to talk just about their time in World 203 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: War two for a little bit. Although they became more 204 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: famous than either of the two women's regiments. They didn't 205 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: really get off to the greatest start. All of these 206 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: women were really capable pilots, but their military experience at 207 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: this point was frankly pretty minimal. While flying to the 208 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: front to report for duty, three fighters that had been 209 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: tasked with escorting the Night which Is dived through their formation, 210 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: and most of the women believed they were under attacked 211 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: by the Germans, and so they panicked and scattered. This 212 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: was basically a test, and they did not pass it. 213 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: They arrived safely at their destination, but most of the 214 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: women hadn't seen the fighters coming or recognized them as 215 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: Soviet planes. They panicked instead of maintaining their formation. When 216 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: they were inspected the next morning, their commander told them 217 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: that they were not ready for combat. So the Night 218 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: which Is spent another two weeks in training. To make 219 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: things worse, their first how ing at the front was 220 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: in a cow shed which was not currently sheltering any cows, 221 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: but it had done so recently enough that it's not 222 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: horrible no matter how much they cleaned it. Once their 223 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: command decided that they were in fact ready, the Night 224 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: which Is finally flew their first combat mission on June eight, 225 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: the three most experienced crews of two women each were 226 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: tasked with bombing the headquarters of a nearby German division. 227 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: On that first mission, they employed a practice that uh 228 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: would earn them the nickname that we've used several times now. 229 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: The PO two is a really, really noisy aircraft. It 230 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: makes a lot of popping noises as it flies, and 231 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: these pops are accompanied by visible flame in the engine 232 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: and the exhaust, and so it's extremely easy to hear 233 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: and extremely easy to spot. So as the pilots approached 234 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: their targets, they would cut their engines, glide the rest 235 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: of the way, and drop their bombs in comparative stealth 236 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: and silence. Apparently, the rush of air over the wings 237 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: reminded the Germans of the sound of a witch flying 238 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: on her brew. While that first mission was successful, sadly, 239 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: two of the women, Luba Olkovskaya and Vera Tarasova, were 240 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: killed in action after a navigational error steered them over 241 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: a heavily defended part of the front and they were 242 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: shot down. Recognizing that losing two of their own right 243 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: literally at the very very beginning of their time in combat, 244 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: was really threatening to shatter the rest of the regiments 245 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: morale and confidence. Regimental commander Major yev Dokia Barsinskaya made 246 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: a case to send the rest of the bombers out 247 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: that night on a mission at once. They were given 248 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: a relatively easy target, which was to bomb a railway 249 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: junction and an artillery battery, and the rest of the 250 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: remaining teams, having completed this mission, did return successfully. After 251 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: that uneasy start, the night, which is confidence and skill 252 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: really grew quite quickly. They flew multiple missions every night, 253 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: flying out to the target, returning for more fuel in bombs, 254 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: and then taking off again a night which plane took 255 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: off on a bombing run every three minutes from sunset 256 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: to sunrise. And this wasn't just about destroying German targets. 257 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: It was also about disrupting the sleep of any German 258 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: troops who were in the area and keeping them on 259 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: it on edge. German troops on the ground could hear 260 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: the night which is coming until they killed their engines. 261 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: And the women would also fly in pairs with one 262 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: of the planes leaving the engine on to serve as 263 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: a decoy so that the other one could proceed in 264 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: more silence, so anywhere the night Whiches were active. The 265 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: Germans on the ground were not getting any sleep. They 266 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: were constantly being awakened, wondering if they were the target, 267 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: and then being kept on high alert the whole time. 268 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: Purportedly because of this, the Night Whiches became so hated 269 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: that any German who shot one down was automatically awarded 270 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: the Iron Cross. I found lots of modern news sources 271 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: of this, not so much historical sources, so take that 272 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: with a grain of salt, but it's still a good story. 273 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: And the Night which is, as you probably know if 274 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: you have seen any of the coverage of them, became 275 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: very very good at their jobs. But what is sometimes 276 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: not always talked about as much is that they also 277 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: had their share of tragedy. And we are going to 278 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: delve into that after we have another word from a sponsor. 279 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: So to return to the Night, which is later time 280 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: in the war. Eight months into their combat duty, many 281 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: of the Night which is had just become household names 282 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: in the Soviet Union. They would get letters from home 283 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: that would include clippings of news stories talking about their missions, 284 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: as well as letters from friends and family who started 285 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: to talk about their friends as heroes. General Marki and 286 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: Popov visited the five hundred and eighty eight during the 287 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: early winter of ninety three. During that visit, he announced 288 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: that the five eight Women's Night Bomber Regiment would be 289 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: given the title forty six tam And Guards Bomber Regiment. 290 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: Guards units were elite units in the Soviet military. So 291 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: with this reorganization, the Night which is we're not only 292 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: in the same league with men, but they were in 293 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: the same league with the most skilled and honored of 294 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: the men. The Night which Is were the first regiment 295 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: in their division, in the first women's air regiment in 296 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: all of the Soviet military to earn this honor. While 297 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: they were doing really outstanding work in the air, it 298 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: was still clear that they were not experienced when it 299 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: came to general military protocol on the ground. After becoming 300 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: a Guards regiment, a major who was on a site 301 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: visit managed to steal maps and signal rockets from the 302 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: Night which is unguarded cockpits. He demanded that they demonstrate 303 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: their marksmanship skills after this happened, and because that wasn't 304 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: a skill that they were actually using that often, they 305 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: didn't do very well. So once again they were assigned 306 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: to remedial military basics while also maintaining their night bombing schedule, 307 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: and they also lost several of their own. On one 308 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: particularly catastrophic night on July three, nineteen forty three, the 309 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: German Army tried a new tactic against the night which is, 310 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: up until that point they had mostly relied on searchlights 311 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: and flat cannons. As long as those pilots stayed out 312 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: of the light, they were really difficult to hit. However, 313 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: on that particular night, the Germans shot tracers after them 314 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: and then deployed fighters. When the tracers hit the night 315 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: which is planes, they set the canvas coverings on fire, 316 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: and from that point there was virtually no hope for 317 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: the for escape for the women on board. The plane 318 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: itself would just go up like kindling, and the woman 319 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: who were flying had didn't have any parachutes. Some reports 320 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: say that this was because they flew so low during 321 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: their missions, but in reality parachutes and just weren't assigned 322 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: to them until the following year. Larissa Rosnova, who we 323 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier as one of the first recruits, was one 324 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: of the pilots flying that night. She was the fourth 325 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: in line, and after watching in horror as the planes 326 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: ahead of her caught fire and crashed, she decided that 327 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: her only option was to go as low as possible 328 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: in the hope of evading the Germans night fighters. She 329 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: flew so low that she spoke to her navigator in 330 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: a whisper, afraid that the enemy troops on the ground 331 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: would be able to hear her, and from a height 332 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: of only a few hundred feet, she dropped her bombs. 333 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: The explosion threw her plane up into the air, but 334 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: she and her navigator made it back safely. The most 335 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: experienced pilots who were out that night took similar maneuvers, 336 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: but many of the less experienced ones who were there 337 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: when the tracers came out were hit, and the rest 338 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: of the regiment on the ground could see it all 339 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: happening from their position. Eight women were killed in that 340 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: one night. The Night which Is flew their last mission 341 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: in May of nine against some of the last resisting 342 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: German forces outside of Berlin. When they got the word 343 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: of victory against Germany, they staged their own fireworks display 344 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: with their flares and their signal rockets, and the end 345 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: The Night which Is were the only one of the 346 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: three regiments formed from their original air group to remain 347 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: entirely composed of women throughout the entire duration of the war. 348 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: They were more highly decorated than either of the other 349 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: two women's flying regiments. Twenty three of them were named 350 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: Heroes of the Soviet Union. Five of those awards came posthumously. 351 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: They flew roughly twenty four thousand combat missions between May 352 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty two and May of nineteen forty five. 353 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: Thirty of their pilots died over the course of more 354 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: than a thousand nights of combat, and although they did 355 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: not really talk about it during the war, and it 356 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: may not have been entirely conscious even on their parts, 357 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: many of the women who had been part of the 358 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,719 Speaker 1: Night Witches talked in their later years about how one 359 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: of the driving forces behind their time in combat was 360 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: actually the chauvinism that they faced from some of the 361 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: men in the military. They all pushed themselves really, really 362 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: hard to prove that they could work on equal footing 363 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: with men, and similarly, the other two women's regiments had 364 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: a lot of successes in the war as well. The 365 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: Seventh Day Bombing Regiment was commanded by Major Marina Riscova 366 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: until she was killed in action in nineteen forty three 367 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: and Night Like the Night, which is the Day bombers 368 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: were eventually named a guard's regiment, which was a credit 369 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: to of their work. The five hundred and eighty six 370 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,479 Speaker 1: fighters mostly flew defensive missions. Lydia Litbiac, the most famous 371 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: of the fighter pilots, became known as the White Lily 372 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 1: of Stalingrad, which became the White Rows of Stalingrad in 373 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: English reports, so you'll see it both ways. She earned 374 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: the title of Flying Ace and she shot down twelve 375 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: German aircraft in a year of combat flying. This is 376 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: also sometimes reported with a different number. You'll see it 377 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: as eleven, sometimes thirteen. She was eventually transferred to a 378 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: men's regiment along with seven other women fighter pilots. She 379 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: was shot down in the summer of nineteen forty three 380 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: and presumably killed. Because this was the focus of so 381 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: many of the articles that have prompted people to ask 382 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: us to talk about the Night, which is we're going 383 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: to wrap up with a little bit on Nadia Popova. Specifically, 384 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: Popova flew eight hundred fifty two missions during her time 385 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: with the Night Witches. On August two of nineteen forty two, 386 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: she was reported missing after her fuel tank had caught 387 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: fire after it was hit by flat After landing, she 388 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: became separated from her navigator and witnessed a German air 389 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: strike against a convoy of Russian tanks, but the bombs 390 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: missed the tanks instead, mostly hitting a nearby column of 391 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: fleeing refugees. While trying to make her way back to 392 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: her unit, Popova meant Semyon Karlamov, an injured fighter pilot, 393 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: and they tried to keep in touch during the war. 394 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: He proposed the day the war was over, and the 395 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: two married soon thereafter. Nearly every article about the Night Witches, 396 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: and one of the books that I read ends with 397 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: a quote from Popova. In interview, she said, I sometimes 398 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: stare into the blackness and close my eyes. I still 399 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: imagine myself as a young girl up there in my 400 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: little bomber, and I asked myself, Nadia, how did you 401 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: do it? I think many of us probably have that question, 402 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: But even having done it, she still has that question. 403 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: They're also so so many more stories of heroism and 404 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,959 Speaker 1: tragedy among these women, and among the two other Soviet 405 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: women's flying regiments as well, And if you are interested 406 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: in more of them. I recommend these two books which 407 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: I read for this episode. One is Night, which is 408 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: the untold story of Soviet women in combat by Bruce Miles, 409 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: and the other is a Dance with Death Soviet Air 410 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: Women in World War Two, which is compiled by Ann Noggle. 411 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: That one includes a lot of personal stories by the 412 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: women who were still surviving when you put the book together. 413 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: And there's also a tabletop game in the works. Uh. 414 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: This was funded through Kickstarter, very successfully, bringing almost ten 415 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: times as much as they asked for UH, and as 416 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: of this recording, that project was in the proofing stage. 417 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: I really love tabletop games, and so I want it 418 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: to be done and I want it to be good. Yay. 419 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: Do you also want to read some listener mail? I do, 420 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: and it is on a completely different track than than 421 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: this episode was. Uh. These are two different but related 422 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: closely to one another. Emails about our decent episodes on 423 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: Brown Versus Board of Education. The first is from Chris 424 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: and he says, hey, I just heard your Brown Versus 425 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: Board episodes. I lived for years in Clarendon County, South 426 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: Carolina and taught in a neighboring county. If you didn't 427 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: here don't recall that's one of the school systems that 428 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: was part of Brown versus Board. I can assure you 429 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: that schools in the area are probably the factor segregated. 430 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: All but the tiniest towns in South Carolina have private schools, 431 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: most of them from the mid sixties to early seventies 432 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: to circumvent integration. The private schools are almost totally white, 433 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: and the public schools are even more totally black. I 434 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: taught about a hundred and twenty five students grade six 435 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: through ten at a public charter school, and only one 436 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: was white. Because the tax base in these areas is 437 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: so small, the public schools are also criminally underfunded, although 438 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: the private private schools aren't much better. Segregation is alive 439 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: and well in South Carolina is small town schools. So 440 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: that was from Chris, and then I also have one 441 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: from Emily, and Emily says, I'm a senior in high 442 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: school who ironically first learned of Stuffyments and History Class 443 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: podcast from my ap U S history teacher. We had 444 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: several assignments and extra credit opportunities involving listening to, summarizing 445 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: and expanding expounding upon select episodes over the past year. 446 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: I've become an avid listener and listening listen to the 447 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: podcasts while working and driving. I drive to and from 448 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: my father's house in Springfield, Tennessee, where my fifteen year 449 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: old brother attends high school. The brief mention of lasting 450 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: segregation in the recent The Road to Brown Versus Board 451 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: episode brought to mind a current controversial issue in Robertson County, Tennessee. 452 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: After a Department of Justice investigation, the federal government determined 453 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: that Robertson County schools have yet to integrate Robertson County 454 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: in double A CP president is quoted as saying in 455 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: a November four issue of The Tennessee and what the 456 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: community needs to be concerned about is that sixty years 457 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: after the Brown Versus Board of Education decision and after 458 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: the law was put into effect, they still haven't made 459 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: any progress. The total community should be concerned about that. 460 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: In order to avoid litigation by the U. S Department 461 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: of Justice and the cessation of federal funding to these schools, 462 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: the county must resone school districts. Several members of the 463 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: community are up in arms over the rezoning because many 464 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: field their children would be forced to go to an 465 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: inferior school than that of which they currently attend. Many 466 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: of these complaints are from Green Briar parents whose children 467 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: attend the predominantly white schools who are rezoned to attend 468 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: Springfield schools. Greenbrier High School student population is percent white, 469 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: two percent Hispanic, and one percent black. Springfield High School 470 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: is sixty four percent white, eleven percent Hispanic and black. 471 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: The state averages are sixty seven percent white, seven percent Hispanic, 472 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: and twenty percent black. East Robertson High School is ninety 473 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: two percent white. Joe Burns High School is ninety five 474 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: percent white and white. House Heritage High School is ninety 475 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: two percent white. All data from Grade Schools dot Org. 476 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: This battle has been raging for months now over the rezoning, 477 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: and the Robertson County Board of Education has agreed to 478 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: adopt the elementary school attendance zones as proposed by the U. 479 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: S Department of Justice for the academic year, with the 480 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: promise to rezone middle and high school attendance zones for 481 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: the seventeen academic year, much to the chagrin of some 482 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: parents and to the delight of others. The minority student 483 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: populations should become more balanced across Robertson County schools to 484 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: still be fighting over segregation seems absurd to myself and 485 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: many students my age who have spoken with. Many students 486 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: are willing and ready to change schools if necessary. However, 487 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: the parents are at the root of the backlash. With 488 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: every passing generation, more progress is made towards racial equality, 489 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: and I and my peers are ready to usher and change, 490 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: though some of the older generation may not be. I 491 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: thought you would be interested in this current desegregation controversy 492 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: as it applies to Brown versus Board and the local 493 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: take on it. Thanks for the wonderful podcast, Emily. Those 494 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: are both great letters in that they give uh, sort 495 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: of a current perspective to to segregation and how as 496 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: we talked about in those to the episodes, it's still 497 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: a big struggle in a lot of places. Uh. But 498 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: they're not as good letters because of the same thing, Uh, 499 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: the fact that, as you know, as we've talked about 500 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, there are lots and lots 501 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: of school systems that are still basically segregated. And we 502 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,239 Speaker 1: got letters and Facebook status is from other folks as 503 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: well who talked about other parts of the United states 504 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: that were outside of the South, and other racial and 505 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: ethnic groups besides African African Americans and and Caucasian students. 506 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: So we may read more of those in future episodes, 507 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: but for now, I wanted to start with these two, 508 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,479 Speaker 1: um because they were so immediate to what we had 509 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: just talked about. Yeah, and there's so much sort of 510 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: hard data in them. That's I think sometimes it's hard 511 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: for people that maybe are in a more integrated place 512 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: to understand the level to which this is still a problem. 513 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: So when you have those hard numbers, it's a little 514 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: bit uh clearer, like what really is still the case 515 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: even in in school systems still figuring this out today. Yes, 516 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: if you would like to write to us about this 517 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: or any other episode Where in History podcast that How 518 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. We're also on Facebook at Facebook 519 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: dot com slash missed in History and on Twitter I 520 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: miss in History. 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