WEBVTT - #476 Maggie Freleng with Marvin Haynes 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:08.000 In May of two thousand and four. Marvin Haynes was 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.480 a pretty average sixteen year old kid. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:12.879 I was a party animal at that time, so it 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.080 was like I just couldn't wait for the weekends and 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.360 just you know, just to have a good, nice clothes 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.040 on and just be able to go have fun. That's 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:21.280 what I was like doing. 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.040 Marvin didn't have a care in the world except for 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.960 the latest trends and chasing girls. That is until he 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:29.360 was picked up by the police. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.920 It was just like basically something happened bad and just 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.800 asking me like was I involved or do I know 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.040 anything like that? And they was talking about a flower shop, 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.640 so I didn't really know what they were talking about. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.839 They never really told me it was a murder. 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.279 Marvin says he had never been in any kind of 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.479 serious trouble, so he wasn't really worried about it. He 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.160 figured there was a mix up and the police would 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:53.760 get it right. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.040 I was thinking more like at that time, as long 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:57.840 as I get out by Friday and so I can 0:00:57.920 --> 0:00:58.320 go on. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.840 What I was doing is wels, Yeah, So I was 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.240 like that's all my thought process was. 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.919 But Marvin never left the station. 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:12.319 Hi, my name is Marvin Haynes. I was wrongly convicted 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:17.160 at sixteen. I spent nineteen in like seven months incarcerated. 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.480 From lava for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:33.280 Freeling today. Marvin Hayes Marvin Haynes was born on December sixth, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:41.400 nineteen eighty seven. He was raised in a working class 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:46.520 family in Minneapolis, Minnesota. His father worked in construction and 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.600 his mother stayed at home raising the family. He's one 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:50.840 of seven kids. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:56.480 I got three sisters older than me, well, four sisters 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.320 and then me. Then I got a little brother and 0:01:58.320 --> 0:01:59.880 a little sister. I'm the oldest boy. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:00.520 Wow. 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:02.160 We had a close knit family. 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.080 So it was like we did all a lot of 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.799 things together, like summer vacations to my granny home. 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.919 State Vllley Fair, six Flags, you know what I'm saying. 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:14.720 So it was kind of like Marvin says, growing up, 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:15.840 life was pretty good. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:16.600 As a kid. 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.960 I just like to have fun and like you know, 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.080 play with cars and you know stuff like that, just 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:26.840 like kid things. So like I go home watch Nickelodeon literally, 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:28.480 so yeah, that was like one of my things. 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.280 All the classic Nickelodeons, all the classes, you know. Hay Arnold's. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.560 There was like, oh, did you ever watch Doug Doug? 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.120 Also, what's the Rugrats? You know what I mean? So 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:39.240 like all that stuff. 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.280 Marvin told me he especially loved to bike ride. 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:44.240 People look at me and be like at my cass 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.240 and be like, do you play football? Used to play football? 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.360 But no, I just used to watch ride bikes. 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.799 A lot, kind of bikes like BMX bikes, regular. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:55.320 All the BMX bikes like Gt. Dino's, Gary Fisher's. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.359 You know, yeah, the nice bikes. Yeah. 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.240 But as he got older and became a teenager, Marvin 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:01.680 says his priorities changed. 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.720 It was all about being having the newest clothes and 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.880 like girls parties every weekend, go to like all the 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.880 parties in the neighborhood, so you know, just having fun. 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:14.600 Having fun with your friends around. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.800 Yeah that was me. Yeah, literally, Like so I liked 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.840 it having all the new shoes and stuff like that. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:21.799 So that was like what I liked doing. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.359 Did you work? No? 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:24.000 I didn't work. 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:25.760 How'd you get money to buy nice shoes? 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.359 I got five sisters and stuff, So I used to like, honestly, 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.040 some of my sister used to have the nicest shoes 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:33.959 and if I couldn't get them that week or something, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.000 I'd probably get, you know, get their shoes or because 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:38.400 they had jobs and stuff. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.960 So yeah, so I had ways, and Marvin knew how 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:43.160 to hustle his sisters. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.360 I had children really young. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.640 This is Marvin's sister, Marvina. She's four years older. 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.320 And Marvin helped me out with the kids because I 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:56.480 was like always like going out and running the streets. 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:58.760 And you left your baby brother to you. 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:00.960 But it was the house of us, right. It was 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.840 like the mom is there and she probably don't want 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.680 to watch the kid. And then Marvin's like, you give 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.680 me five dollars. I'm like, yeah, I'm giving you five dollars. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:11.000 I'm out of. 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.599 Marvin was just an ordinary sixteen year old kid, hanging 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.159 out with friends and chasing the latest trends. 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:28.040 Honestly, I was just living for the that day, Marvin 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:28.400 told me. 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.320 The evening of Sunday, May sixteenth, two thousand and four, 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:33.440 was just like any other. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:35.960 I was at a party, you know what I'm saying, Like, 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.560 just having fun, doing regular things, went home late, you know, 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.080 like two in the morning, two three in the morning, slept. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.840 And woke up like a normal day. You know, like 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:48.719 woke up at like late in the afternoon. 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:50.919 Marvin says he got up and went to meet up 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.000 with friends at some local spots. 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.120 Like where I know everybody yet, so just going about 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:55.440 your norse. 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:56.839 Yeah, I was going by my normal life. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.800 So a few days later, on May nineteenth, Marvin wakes 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.200 up to his mom and I think it was a Wednesday. 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.640 I was woke up early in the morning and my 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.800 mom was basically saying, like, the police here. They got 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.520 a warrant for your arrest. They just want to talk 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:11.760 to you. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.480 At first, Marvin says he wasn't too concerned because. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.720 This that happened to me before, for like violations of 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:19.640 curfews and different things like that. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.840 In fact, that's exactly the charge. They picked him up 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.600 and held him on he'd missed a court appearance for 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:26.880 breaking curfew. 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:30.039 With you, okay. 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.640 The police took Marvin into the station for questioning. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:41.080 Okay, okay, Yeah, they brought me into an interrogation room, 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:42.760 set me in there for a while. 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.680 I feel like I don't have nothing to hide, okay, 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.400 your junior. 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.520 So Marvin spoke to the officers with no adult or 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.839 attorney president, thinking this was just for a curfew violation, 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.919 and I think it was a curve from g. 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.000 And I was walking to the club. 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.760 She regretting because you don't have a car, you don't 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:09.320 have a relacens. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.720 I ain't got no much, okay, but just was telling 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.120 them my normal thing of what I was doing that 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.120 past week, you know, like the past days that led 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:19.720 it to me being in that room. So I'm just 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:24.440 telling them like who I hang with, where i'd be at, 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.880 you know, just stuff like that, and oh my cousin 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.240 Poopie house. I actually had some cash on me, so 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.280 I was asking them about, like, hey, did you make 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.200 sure you give me a receipt for the money that 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.440 I you know that I had when I came here? 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.800 I said, seat because they took they took my money 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.760 after the game. I didn't know nothing. I had no 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:44.880 idea what was going on. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.400 Marvin had no idea that while he was sitting there 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.120 worrying about receipts for a few dollars, that he'd been 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:53.719 identified in a murder. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.920 But then when I when I was hearing them saying 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.160 like we got your fingerprints and stuff like that, and 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.600 I was just like I was like discompibulated, Like what 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:03.760 what was y'all talking about. 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.600 I had to really think back, like what did I 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.680 do wrong this weekend? 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.320 We know you were in that Mark, Okay, so we 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:10.880 know that. 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.640 And they was talking about a flower shop, and I 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.120 ain't never told nobody ain't a flower shop. Yeah you have, Yeah, 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.200 you have, Marvin straight up. Now, I'm keeping it real 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:19.360 with you. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:20.280 You say, keep unreal. 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:21.520 I'm just trying to give her town. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:22.000 That's Martin. 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.600 Where you saying, you saying that you're trying to point 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.480 You're trying to say that you were in the flower shop. 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:27.720 Yeah. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.880 Straight, I was putting two together and I still was 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.960 kind of confused, expressing to them like y'all got the 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:33.559 wrong person. 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.160 That person had shot and killed fifty five year old 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:44.240 Randy Scharer inside his family business, Jerry's Flower Shop. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.000 Is that a flower shop in North Minneapolis May sixteenth, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:08:00.280 two thousand and four. Someone comes in and is asking 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.360 for flowers, ends up, you know, pulling a gun and 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.000 saying he wants money from from the back. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.400 This is Andrew Marcourt. He's a managing attorney at the 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.360 Great North Innocence Project. Andrew explains that the robber had 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:19.160 originally been speaking with Cynthia McDermott when her brother Randy walked. 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:23.280 In and the person shoots him two times. 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.080 Then McDermott flees out the back. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.800 She becomes kind of the primary eyewitness in the case. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.439 McDermott had run to a neighbor's house and called nine 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.760 one one before rushing back to the flower shop, where 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:40.560 she found her brother Randy dead. McDermott told first responders 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.959 that the gunman was a tall, thin blackmail in his 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.079 early twenties. She said he weighed about one hundred and 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.720 eighty pounds, and she also specified his hair was short 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.199 cropped to his head. When police first showed her a 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.000 photo lineup, she identified someone with what she said was 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.800 seventy five to eighty percent confidence. 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.800 This witness Cynthia McDermott. She actually picked a filler, which 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.200 is like one of the nun suspects in the lineup. 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.319 You know, she picked this person who looks nothing like 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.800 Marvin and more to the points, I mean, you know, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:21.040 in terms of just best practices, when someone picks a filler, 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:22.920 I mean, what that tells you is they don't, you know, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.000 like they don't have a good memory of what the 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:26.959 suspect looks like. 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:28.360 Why wouldn't it have been that guy. 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.240 Well, one, he was a filler, so there was no 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.280 reason to suspect him. He was just pulled from the database. 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.880 But also they did they did actually look into whether 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:41.240 he could be a credible suspect, and he appeared to 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.600 have an alibi that he was in South Dakota at 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.199 the time. That really should have been the end of 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:48.760 it for her, that that should have been like, well, 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:50.559 she doesn't know, so we're going to have to solve 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.440 this case some other way. But that wasn't the end 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.520 of it. So Marvin comes to the attention of the 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:01.920 police a few days later with an an anonymous with 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.679 a tip saying that there's some word that little Marvin 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:07.600 was involved. 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.200 Why did you have the nickname Little Marvin? 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:11.000 My dad named. 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.160 Marvin, So it was like everybody that know me called 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.120 me little Marvin, or everybody that like literally that know. 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:17.440 Me, call me Little Marvin. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.840 At the time, Marvin was indeed little, at least compared 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:23.840 to the suspect that McDermott had described. 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.280 He was much smaller, I think about fifty pounds lighter 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.280 than the estimate, several inches shorter, several years younger, but 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:36.400 perhaps most Obviously, the witnesses just both to describe someone 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.640 with short hair. The primary witness that he had short cropped. 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.520 Hair, and at the time Marvin had a tall afro. 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.880 Nothing anyone could describe as close cropped hair. When they 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.000 did the photo lineup, though, they didn't use a contemporaneous 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.319 picture of him, even though he'd been arrested at that 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.800 time and they had there was you know, they had 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.080 a mugshot created that day. 0:10:58.000 --> 0:10:58.920 What they used was a. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.120 Two year old photo where he did have short hair, 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.000 so it was much more closely resembling what the witnesses 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.320 had described, even though that wasn't how he looked that day. 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:11.959 So that was a problem. 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.520 So they have they they have Marvin in custody right now. 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.079 Yeah afro. They know this witness they're looking for is 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.080 taller with no afro, and they're like, well, fine, we'll 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:23.280 just we'll still go for him. 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:24.520 But an old picture, yeap. 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.280 So they so they use this old picture and in 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.319 that time she she did pick him. I mean, this 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:35.239 case is just an absolute disaster from a eyewitness identification perspective. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:36.439 At least, I'm keeping it. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:37.000 I'm keeping it. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:39.839 When they came to see me, they was asking me that, 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:41.240 so this is how you wear your hair? 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.480 Tell me why did you change your hair style? 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.679 And I didn't put twods too together because I'm like, 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.120 I didn't. I just like this, I'll wear my hair, 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:51.839 you know. They kept asking me about my hair. 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.680 Eventually, Marvin was put in a live lineup work. 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.199 Going in March. Stand right there and right there, look 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.439 straight at the window. Turns it right. 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.640 I've never been in a lineup? What is that like? 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.319 Is it like in the movies? Like are you? Is 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:16.920 there a glass wall and you can't see that? 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.559 No way, I can't even lie to you. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:20.839 It's true when they say that when you go to 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.760 like through a like a uh a difficult moment in 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:26.760 or life or is something like hard like that, you 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:28.760 can't really remember it like I can't. 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.000 I couldn't really remember it for years until I really seenk. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.800 It don't move and allowed the many voice repeat that 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:35.079 to me. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.839 Don't don't move. Where's the tape? Where's the tape? This 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.640 is no joke, there's no joke. I want the money. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:44.760 I want the money. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:55.120 No tell no till in that lineup, McDermott picked Marvin again, 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.640 and at this point Marvin realized he might be in trouble. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.280 Got intense, and then I realized, like, man, like they 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.880 trying to, you know, frame me. But then I was 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.439 thinking like, well, they gonna find the right person and 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.319 then they gonna just gonna come and correct this. I 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.559 literally didn't think that I would be going to prison 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.240 or I would be arrested for something like this. So 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.640 I was more thinking I was in I was trusting them, 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.160 thinking like Okay, well they gonna figure this out and 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.079 they gonna come to me and be like, Okay, we 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:24.559 got the wrong person, you know what I mean. So 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.000 I never thought I would go to prison or I 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:34.840 would be arrested for something like this. At that time, 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.880 these my family didn't know nothing about the justice system. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.600 We never had a family member to go through anything 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.160 like this, you know what I mean. So we was 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.439 not knowledgeable about things like this or what to do 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:48.680 when it happened. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.520 Or don't talk to the police. We was talk like 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:53.199 the police is the good guys. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.120 But the police charged Marvin with first degree murder and 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:03.000 second degree assault. Happened to Marvin. It affected our whole family, 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:04.840 Mervin's mother especially. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.360 She asked me once though, she was like, Marvin, did 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.720 you have anything to do with this, and I told her, 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.480 like she only asked me one time. I said, no, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.839 I had, I don't know nothing about this, and she 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.120 never asked me again. She knew that I wasn't lying 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:16.960 about that, you know what I mean. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:18.920 We were a good kid, yeah, but never I. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.560 Wouldn't say I was a great kid. But she knew 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.400 that I wasn't involved in on stuff like that, you 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.640 know what I'm saying. So it only took for me 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:27.800 to tell her one time that I wasn't involved in 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.400 it or I didn't have and she knew that I 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:30.960 wasn't lying about it, you know what I mean. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.080 But the truth that her sixteen year old boy was 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.560 being charged with murder was too much for Mervin's mom 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:38.120 to handle. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:45.840 My mom kind of like mentally checked out. There was 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:51.200 like never any more dinner at the dinner table. Our 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:56.840 parents separated totally at that point. And so when it 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.880 affected my mom and my parents, it affect us all, 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.880 which caused the other children to end up being like 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:08.680 the system. My mom eventually lost her kids and my 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:16.120 sister took them, and so it's just like it affected 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.280 me in crazy ways, affected our whole family and we 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:28.720 wasn't able to ask her, We wasn't able to check 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.360 on her, because when you were mom, everybody just think 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:33.320 you're strong. 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:34.080 She took it hard. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.680 She started partying more too after that and just going out. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:38.680 My mom never was going out. She stayed at home, 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.800 took care of us. But once this happened to me, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.480 she's just like, you know, like was trying to escape it, 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.960 you know what I'm saying, or trying to figure because 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.080 she felt like she couldn't do. 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:51.640 Nothing, and she couldn't. The case was moving forward with 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.640 the witness ideas in the bag, the police focused on 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.280 what they believed had happened, homing in on Marvin's family 0:15:58.560 --> 0:15:59.240 for answers. 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:13.920 They claim that Marvin was hanging out with some friends 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.960 and his cousin over at another friend's house. 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.440 The police questioned Marvin's fourteen year old cousin, Isaiah. During 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.520 the first few interviews, Isaiah didn't have anything to say, 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:30.360 but then in a later interrogation, Isaiah cracked. He allegedly 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:31.560 told police. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.800 That Marvin said that the mourning of that he was 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.800 going to go hit a lick, which is like a 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:43.520 slang term for committed a robbery. Afterwards, he told him 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.240 he had shut a white man. 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.760 He'd be the first of three kids who the police 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.800 would use to implicate Marvin in the crime. A few 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.880 months later, a fourteen year old acquaintance of Marvin's gave 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:01.360 a statement. Anthony Todd told police had also heard Marvin 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.080 bragging about hitting a lick. Then a year later, in 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.720 August two thousand and five, seventeen year old Marvin Haines 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:14.000 went to trial. Mike Fernstall prosecuted the case. He presented 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.680 multiple witnesses he believed with I d Marvin as the shooter, 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:22.439 including Cynthia mcdermodd, who said she had no doubt Marvin 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.240 had shot and killed her brother. But then Marvin's cousin 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:27.879 Isaiah took the stand. 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.920 He actually, in a pretty dramatic moment, actually tried to 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:39.760 recant from the stand at trial and said, look, this 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.520 isn't true. The only reason I said it is that 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.159 they were threatening me with my own time. Said that 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.720 I was looking at you know, up to fifteen years, 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.000 get half of what Marvin's looking at if if I 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:52.399 don't cooperate. 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:52.840 He told the people. 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.760 He told a judge, he said, look y'all making me 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.119 say my cousin to jail for something he didn't do. 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.159 He's screaming like this man is He's saying, like my 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.720 cousin is innocent, And they took him off the stay. 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.600 They they call a recess because things really went off 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.399 the rails. I mean, this is in live court with 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:14.159 the state, and then they go back and you know, 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.919 basically they're threatening him with perjury charges if he doesn't 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:23.399 recant his recantation. And he was you know, there was 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.960 testimony that he's on the hall he's you know, a 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:31.480 kid and who like bawling in the hallway because he's 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.879 been placed in this this impossible situation. So anyway, they 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.400 bring him back in and he ends up and kind 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:43.760 of fits and starts basically going back to the original 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:45.560 story he told the police. 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.720 A few other witnesses were called to the stand, including 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.919 Robb Seely, who was a fourteen. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:58.280 Year old boy who was in the neighborhood attending temple 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.600 and just happened to be walking by and heard shots 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.120 and saw someone fleeing shortly. 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.760 After the shooting. Seely had ideed Marvin in a lineup, 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.040 but a year later on the stand, Seely said he 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.719 had doubts. Another witness Jennifer Coleman testified that she had 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:17.800 spoken to Marvin the morning of the shooting at his 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.800 house and he told her he shot some old white man. However, 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.359 Coleman could not I d Marvin in court and the 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.600 house she had said was Marvin's was actually the house 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:33.480 of another person named Marvin. Things were looking shaky for 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:45.360 the prosecution. Finally it was the defense's turn. Marvin's mom 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.520 hired a private defense attorney, Cassius Benson, to represent Marvin. 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.480 Benson advised Marvin not to take the stand, as many 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:57.959 defense attorneys do. However, Marvin insisted. 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.480 What I'm like, man, look often in take the stand 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:00.919 and tail they's people that I'm innocent. 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:01.520 You know what I'm saying. 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.720 I'm telling my story, and I was able to I 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.520 was able to tell, you know, I wasn't the person 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:07.480 that committed this crime. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:07.720 You know. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:12.640 He gave a story which is the same story he's 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.880 been saying for years, which is that he was home 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.720 in bed that morning, that he went out with friends 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.880 the night before, was I got home kind of late, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:26.120 slept in and it was kind of an unremarkable day. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.640 So that that was essentially the defense case. 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:35.240 After a week long trial. With no forensic evidence tying 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.160