1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: In May of two thousand and four. Marvin Haynes was 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: a pretty average sixteen year old kid. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 2: I was a party animal at that time, so it 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: was like I just couldn't wait for the weekends and 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: just you know, just to have a good, nice clothes 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: on and just be able to go have fun. That's 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 2: what I was like doing. 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: Marvin didn't have a care in the world except for 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: the latest trends and chasing girls. That is until he 10 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: was picked up by the police. 11 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: It was just like basically something happened bad and just 12 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: asking me like was I involved or do I know 13 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: anything like that? And they was talking about a flower shop, 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 2: so I didn't really know what they were talking about. 15 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 3: They never really told me it was a murder. 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: Marvin says he had never been in any kind of 17 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: serious trouble, so he wasn't really worried about it. He 18 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: figured there was a mix up and the police would 19 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: get it right. 20 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: I was thinking more like at that time, as long 21 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: as I get out by Friday and so I can 22 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: go on. 23 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: What I was doing is wels, Yeah, So I was 24 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 3: like that's all my thought process was. 25 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,919 Speaker 1: But Marvin never left the station. 26 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Marvin Haynes. I was wrongly convicted 27 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: at sixteen. I spent nineteen in like seven months incarcerated. 28 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: From lava for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 29 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: Freeling today. Marvin Hayes Marvin Haynes was born on December sixth, 30 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven. He was raised in a working class 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: family in Minneapolis, Minnesota. His father worked in construction and 32 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: his mother stayed at home raising the family. He's one 33 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: of seven kids. 34 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: I got three sisters older than me, well, four sisters 35 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: and then me. Then I got a little brother and 36 00:01:58,320 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: a little sister. I'm the oldest boy. 37 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: Wow. 38 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: We had a close knit family. 39 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: So it was like we did all a lot of 40 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 2: things together, like summer vacations to my granny home. 41 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 3: State Vllley Fair, six Flags, you know what I'm saying. 42 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: So it was kind of like Marvin says, growing up, 43 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: life was pretty good. 44 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: As a kid. 45 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: I just like to have fun and like you know, 46 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: play with cars and you know stuff like that, just 47 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: like kid things. So like I go home watch Nickelodeon literally, 48 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: so yeah, that was like one of my things. 49 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: All the classic Nickelodeons, all the classes, you know. Hay Arnold's. 50 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: There was like, oh, did you ever watch Doug Doug? 51 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: Also, what's the Rugrats? You know what I mean? So 52 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 3: like all that stuff. 53 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: Marvin told me he especially loved to bike ride. 54 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: People look at me and be like at my cass 55 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: and be like, do you play football? Used to play football? 56 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: But no, I just used to watch ride bikes. 57 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: A lot, kind of bikes like BMX bikes, regular. 58 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: All the BMX bikes like Gt. Dino's, Gary Fisher's. 59 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 3: You know, yeah, the nice bikes. Yeah. 60 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: But as he got older and became a teenager, Marvin 61 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: says his priorities changed. 62 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: It was all about being having the newest clothes and 63 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: like girls parties every weekend, go to like all the 64 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: parties in the neighborhood, so you know, just having fun. 65 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: Having fun with your friends around. 66 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 3: Yeah that was me. Yeah, literally, Like so I liked 67 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 3: it having all the new shoes and stuff like that. 68 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 3: So that was like what I liked doing. 69 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: Did you work? No? 70 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: I didn't work. 71 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: How'd you get money to buy nice shoes? 72 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: I got five sisters and stuff, So I used to like, honestly, 73 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: some of my sister used to have the nicest shoes 74 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 2: and if I couldn't get them that week or something, 75 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: I'd probably get, you know, get their shoes or because 76 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: they had jobs and stuff. 77 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I had ways, and Marvin knew how 78 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: to hustle his sisters. 79 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 4: I had children really young. 80 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: This is Marvin's sister, Marvina. She's four years older. 81 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 4: And Marvin helped me out with the kids because I 82 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 4: was like always like going out and running the streets. 83 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: And you left your baby brother to you. 84 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: But it was the house of us, right. It was 85 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 4: like the mom is there and she probably don't want 86 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 4: to watch the kid. And then Marvin's like, you give 87 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 4: me five dollars. I'm like, yeah, I'm giving you five dollars. 88 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 5: I'm out of. 89 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: Marvin was just an ordinary sixteen year old kid, hanging 90 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: out with friends and chasing the latest trends. 91 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 5: Honestly, I was just living for the that day, Marvin 92 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 5: told me. 93 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: The evening of Sunday, May sixteenth, two thousand and four, 94 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: was just like any other. 95 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: I was at a party, you know what I'm saying, Like, 96 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: just having fun, doing regular things, went home late, you know, 97 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: like two in the morning, two three in the morning, slept. 98 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 3: And woke up like a normal day. You know, like 99 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 3: woke up at like late in the afternoon. 100 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: Marvin says he got up and went to meet up 101 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: with friends at some local spots. 102 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 5: Like where I know everybody yet, so just going about 103 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 5: your norse. 104 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going by my normal life. 105 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: So a few days later, on May nineteenth, Marvin wakes 106 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: up to his mom and I think it was a Wednesday. 107 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: I was woke up early in the morning and my 108 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: mom was basically saying, like, the police here. They got 109 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: a warrant for your arrest. They just want to talk 110 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: to you. 111 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: At first, Marvin says he wasn't too concerned because. 112 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 2: This that happened to me before, for like violations of 113 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 2: curfews and different things like that. 114 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: In fact, that's exactly the charge. They picked him up 115 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: and held him on he'd missed a court appearance for 116 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: breaking curfew. 117 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 6: With you, okay. 118 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: The police took Marvin into the station for questioning. 119 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Yeah, they brought me into an interrogation room, 120 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: set me in there for a while. 121 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 3: I feel like I don't have nothing to hide, okay, 122 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: your junior. 123 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: So Marvin spoke to the officers with no adult or 124 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: attorney president, thinking this was just for a curfew violation, 125 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: and I think it was a curve from g. 126 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: And I was walking to the club. 127 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 6: She regretting because you don't have a car, you don't 128 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 6: have a relacens. 129 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: I ain't got no much, okay, but just was telling 130 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: them my normal thing of what I was doing that 131 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: past week, you know, like the past days that led 132 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 2: it to me being in that room. So I'm just 133 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: telling them like who I hang with, where i'd be at, 134 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: you know, just stuff like that, and oh my cousin 135 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: Poopie house. I actually had some cash on me, so 136 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 2: I was asking them about, like, hey, did you make 137 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: sure you give me a receipt for the money that 138 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: I you know that I had when I came here? 139 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 3: I said, seat because they took they took my money 140 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: after the game. I didn't know nothing. I had no 141 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: idea what was going on. 142 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: Marvin had no idea that while he was sitting there 143 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: worrying about receipts for a few dollars, that he'd been 144 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: identified in a murder. 145 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: But then when I when I was hearing them saying 146 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: like we got your fingerprints and stuff like that, and 147 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: I was just like I was like discompibulated, Like what 148 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: what was y'all talking about. 149 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 3: I had to really think back, like what did I 150 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: do wrong this weekend? 151 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 7: We know you were in that Mark, Okay, so we 152 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 7: know that. 153 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 3: And they was talking about a flower shop, and I 154 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: ain't never told nobody ain't a flower shop. Yeah you have, Yeah, 155 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 3: you have, Marvin straight up. Now, I'm keeping it real 156 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: with you. 157 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: You say, keep unreal. 158 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 7: I'm just trying to give her town. 159 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 3: That's Martin. 160 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 4: Where you saying, you saying that you're trying to point 161 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 4: You're trying to say that you were in the flower shop. 162 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 163 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: Straight, I was putting two together and I still was 164 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: kind of confused, expressing to them like y'all got the 165 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 2: wrong person. 166 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: That person had shot and killed fifty five year old 167 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: Randy Scharer inside his family business, Jerry's Flower Shop. 168 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 7: Is that a flower shop in North Minneapolis May sixteenth, 169 00:07:55,080 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 7: two thousand and four. Someone comes in and is asking 170 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 7: for flowers, ends up, you know, pulling a gun and 171 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 7: saying he wants money from from the back. 172 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: This is Andrew Marcourt. He's a managing attorney at the 173 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: Great North Innocence Project. Andrew explains that the robber had 174 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: originally been speaking with Cynthia McDermott when her brother Randy walked. 175 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 7: In and the person shoots him two times. 176 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: Then McDermott flees out the back. 177 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 7: She becomes kind of the primary eyewitness in the case. 178 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: McDermott had run to a neighbor's house and called nine 179 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: one one before rushing back to the flower shop, where 180 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: she found her brother Randy dead. McDermott told first responders 181 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: that the gunman was a tall, thin blackmail in his 182 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: early twenties. She said he weighed about one hundred and 183 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: eighty pounds, and she also specified his hair was short 184 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: cropped to his head. When police first showed her a 185 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: photo lineup, she identified someone with what she said was 186 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: seventy five to eighty percent confidence. 187 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 7: This witness Cynthia McDermott. She actually picked a filler, which 188 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 7: is like one of the nun suspects in the lineup. 189 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 7: You know, she picked this person who looks nothing like 190 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 7: Marvin and more to the points, I mean, you know, 191 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 7: in terms of just best practices, when someone picks a filler, 192 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 7: I mean, what that tells you is they don't, you know, 193 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 7: like they don't have a good memory of what the 194 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 7: suspect looks like. 195 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't it have been that guy. 196 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 7: Well, one, he was a filler, so there was no 197 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 7: reason to suspect him. He was just pulled from the database. 198 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 7: But also they did they did actually look into whether 199 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 7: he could be a credible suspect, and he appeared to 200 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 7: have an alibi that he was in South Dakota at 201 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 7: the time. That really should have been the end of 202 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 7: it for her, that that should have been like, well, 203 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 7: she doesn't know, so we're going to have to solve 204 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 7: this case some other way. But that wasn't the end 205 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 7: of it. So Marvin comes to the attention of the 206 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 7: police a few days later with an an anonymous with 207 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 7: a tip saying that there's some word that little Marvin 208 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 7: was involved. 209 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: Why did you have the nickname Little Marvin? 210 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 3: My dad named. 211 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: Marvin, So it was like everybody that know me called 212 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: me little Marvin, or everybody that like literally that know. 213 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 3: Me, call me Little Marvin. 214 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: At the time, Marvin was indeed little, at least compared 215 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: to the suspect that McDermott had described. 216 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 7: He was much smaller, I think about fifty pounds lighter 217 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 7: than the estimate, several inches shorter, several years younger, but 218 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 7: perhaps most Obviously, the witnesses just both to describe someone 219 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 7: with short hair. The primary witness that he had short cropped. 220 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: Hair, and at the time Marvin had a tall afro. 221 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 7: Nothing anyone could describe as close cropped hair. When they 222 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 7: did the photo lineup, though, they didn't use a contemporaneous 223 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 7: picture of him, even though he'd been arrested at that 224 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 7: time and they had there was you know, they had 225 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 7: a mugshot created that day. 226 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: What they used was a. 227 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 7: Two year old photo where he did have short hair, 228 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 7: so it was much more closely resembling what the witnesses 229 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 7: had described, even though that wasn't how he looked that day. 230 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 7: So that was a problem. 231 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: So they have they they have Marvin in custody right now. 232 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: Yeah afro. They know this witness they're looking for is 233 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: taller with no afro, and they're like, well, fine, we'll 234 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: just we'll still go for him. 235 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 5: But an old picture, yeap. 236 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 7: So they so they use this old picture and in 237 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 7: that time she she did pick him. I mean, this 238 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:35,239 Speaker 7: case is just an absolute disaster from a eyewitness identification perspective. 239 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 3: At least, I'm keeping it. 240 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 6: I'm keeping it. 241 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 3: When they came to see me, they was asking me that, 242 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 3: so this is how you wear your hair? 243 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 6: Tell me why did you change your hair style? 244 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 3: And I didn't put twods too together because I'm like, 245 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 3: I didn't. I just like this, I'll wear my hair, 246 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 3: you know. They kept asking me about my hair. 247 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: Eventually, Marvin was put in a live lineup work. 248 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 3: Going in March. Stand right there and right there, look 249 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 3: straight at the window. Turns it right. 250 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: I've never been in a lineup? What is that like? 251 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: Is it like in the movies? Like are you? Is 252 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: there a glass wall and you can't see that? 253 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 3: No way, I can't even lie to you. 254 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 2: It's true when they say that when you go to 255 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: like through a like a uh a difficult moment in 256 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: or life or is something like hard like that, you 257 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 2: can't really remember it like I can't. 258 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: I couldn't really remember it for years until I really seenk. 259 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 7: It don't move and allowed the many voice repeat that 260 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 7: to me. 261 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 3: Don't don't move. Where's the tape? Where's the tape? This 262 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 3: is no joke, there's no joke. I want the money. 263 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: I want the money. 264 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: No tell no till in that lineup, McDermott picked Marvin again, 265 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: and at this point Marvin realized he might be in trouble. 266 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: Got intense, and then I realized, like, man, like they 267 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: trying to, you know, frame me. But then I was 268 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 2: thinking like, well, they gonna find the right person and 269 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 2: then they gonna just gonna come and correct this. I 270 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 2: literally didn't think that I would be going to prison 271 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: or I would be arrested for something like this. So 272 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: I was more thinking I was in I was trusting them, 273 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: thinking like Okay, well they gonna figure this out and 274 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 2: they gonna come to me and be like, Okay, we 275 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 2: got the wrong person, you know what I mean. So 276 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: I never thought I would go to prison or I 277 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: would be arrested for something like this. At that time, 278 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: these my family didn't know nothing about the justice system. 279 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: We never had a family member to go through anything 280 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: like this, you know what I mean. So we was 281 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 2: not knowledgeable about things like this or what to do 282 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 2: when it happened. 283 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: Or don't talk to the police. We was talk like 284 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 3: the police is the good guys. 285 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: But the police charged Marvin with first degree murder and 286 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: second degree assault. Happened to Marvin. It affected our whole family, 287 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: Mervin's mother especially. 288 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: She asked me once though, she was like, Marvin, did 289 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: you have anything to do with this, and I told her, 290 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: like she only asked me one time. I said, no, 291 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 2: I had, I don't know nothing about this, and she 292 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: never asked me again. She knew that I wasn't lying 293 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 2: about that, you know what I mean. 294 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: We were a good kid, yeah, but never I. 295 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 2: Wouldn't say I was a great kid. But she knew 296 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 2: that I wasn't involved in on stuff like that, you 297 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So it only took for me 298 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 2: to tell her one time that I wasn't involved in 299 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: it or I didn't have and she knew that I 300 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: wasn't lying about it, you know what I mean. 301 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: But the truth that her sixteen year old boy was 302 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: being charged with murder was too much for Mervin's mom 303 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: to handle. 304 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 4: My mom kind of like mentally checked out. There was 305 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 4: like never any more dinner at the dinner table. Our 306 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 4: parents separated totally at that point. And so when it 307 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 4: affected my mom and my parents, it affect us all, 308 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 4: which caused the other children to end up being like 309 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 4: the system. My mom eventually lost her kids and my 310 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 4: sister took them, and so it's just like it affected 311 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 4: me in crazy ways, affected our whole family and we 312 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 4: wasn't able to ask her, We wasn't able to check 313 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 4: on her, because when you were mom, everybody just think 314 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 4: you're strong. 315 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 3: She took it hard. 316 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: She started partying more too after that and just going out. 317 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: My mom never was going out. She stayed at home, 318 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 2: took care of us. But once this happened to me, 319 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: she's just like, you know, like was trying to escape it, 320 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, or trying to figure because 321 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: she felt like she couldn't do. 322 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: Nothing, and she couldn't. The case was moving forward with 323 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: the witness ideas in the bag, the police focused on 324 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: what they believed had happened, homing in on Marvin's family 325 00:15:58,560 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: for answers. 326 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 7: They claim that Marvin was hanging out with some friends 327 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 7: and his cousin over at another friend's house. 328 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: The police questioned Marvin's fourteen year old cousin, Isaiah. During 329 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: the first few interviews, Isaiah didn't have anything to say, 330 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: but then in a later interrogation, Isaiah cracked. He allegedly 331 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: told police. 332 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 7: That Marvin said that the mourning of that he was 333 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 7: going to go hit a lick, which is like a 334 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 7: slang term for committed a robbery. Afterwards, he told him 335 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 7: he had shut a white man. 336 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: He'd be the first of three kids who the police 337 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: would use to implicate Marvin in the crime. A few 338 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: months later, a fourteen year old acquaintance of Marvin's gave 339 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: a statement. Anthony Todd told police had also heard Marvin 340 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: bragging about hitting a lick. Then a year later, in 341 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: August two thousand and five, seventeen year old Marvin Haines 342 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: went to trial. Mike Fernstall prosecuted the case. He presented 343 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: multiple witnesses he believed with I d Marvin as the shooter, 344 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: including Cynthia mcdermodd, who said she had no doubt Marvin 345 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: had shot and killed her brother. But then Marvin's cousin 346 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: Isaiah took the stand. 347 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 7: He actually, in a pretty dramatic moment, actually tried to 348 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 7: recant from the stand at trial and said, look, this 349 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 7: isn't true. The only reason I said it is that 350 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 7: they were threatening me with my own time. Said that 351 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 7: I was looking at you know, up to fifteen years, 352 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 7: get half of what Marvin's looking at if if I 353 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 7: don't cooperate. 354 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: He told the people. 355 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: He told a judge, he said, look y'all making me 356 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 2: say my cousin to jail for something he didn't do. 357 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 2: He's screaming like this man is He's saying, like my 358 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: cousin is innocent, And they took him off the stay. 359 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 7: They they call a recess because things really went off 360 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 7: the rails. I mean, this is in live court with 361 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 7: the state, and then they go back and you know, 362 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 7: basically they're threatening him with perjury charges if he doesn't 363 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 7: recant his recantation. And he was you know, there was 364 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 7: testimony that he's on the hall he's you know, a 365 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 7: kid and who like bawling in the hallway because he's 366 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 7: been placed in this this impossible situation. So anyway, they 367 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 7: bring him back in and he ends up and kind 368 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 7: of fits and starts basically going back to the original 369 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 7: story he told the police. 370 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: A few other witnesses were called to the stand, including 371 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: Robb Seely, who was a fourteen. 372 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 7: Year old boy who was in the neighborhood attending temple 373 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 7: and just happened to be walking by and heard shots 374 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 7: and saw someone fleeing shortly. 375 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: After the shooting. Seely had ideed Marvin in a lineup, 376 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: but a year later on the stand, Seely said he 377 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 1: had doubts. Another witness Jennifer Coleman testified that she had 378 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: spoken to Marvin the morning of the shooting at his 379 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: house and he told her he shot some old white man. However, 380 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: Coleman could not I d Marvin in court and the 381 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: house she had said was Marvin's was actually the house 382 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: of another person named Marvin. Things were looking shaky for 383 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: the prosecution. Finally it was the defense's turn. Marvin's mom 384 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: hired a private defense attorney, Cassius Benson, to represent Marvin. 385 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: Benson advised Marvin not to take the stand, as many 386 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 1: defense attorneys do. However, Marvin insisted. 387 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: What I'm like, man, look often in take the stand 388 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 2: and tail they's people that I'm innocent. 389 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. 390 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: I'm telling my story, and I was able to I 391 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: was able to tell, you know, I wasn't the person 392 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 2: that committed this crime. 393 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 8: You know. 394 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 7: He gave a story which is the same story he's 395 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 7: been saying for years, which is that he was home 396 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 7: in bed that morning, that he went out with friends 397 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 7: the night before, was I got home kind of late, 398 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 7: slept in and it was kind of an unremarkable day. 399 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 7: So that that was essentially the defense case. 400 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: After a week long trial. With no forensic evidence tying 401 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: Marvin to the shooting, no murder weapon, shaky witness ideas, 402 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: and even a witness recanting on the stand, Marvin thought 403 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: he'd be back to being a teenager in no time. 404 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: Did you think you'd be convicted? 405 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 3: No, I did not think I was going to be convicted. 406 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: I did not ever think I was going to be convicted, Like, 407 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 2: especially with all the evidence that I seen myself. So 408 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, like, it's so obvious they this is impossible 409 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 2: for me to get convicted. 410 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 3: So when it happened, it was just like I was shocked. 411 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 3: I was just like damn. 412 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: On September second, two thousand and five, the jury convicted 413 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: Marvin a first degree murder and second degree assault. Did 414 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: you see your family in the courtroom? 415 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 3: Yeah? Hell, yeah, my mom that that. 416 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's okay. There's tissues right here too. 417 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 418 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: I'm good though, But I just see my mom. I 419 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: had affected her. That's the only thing that made me upset. 420 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 2: She actually just walked out, and she was said so mad. 421 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: After seeing his mother walk out, seventeen year old Marvin, 422 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: upset and angry, lashed out at the judge, yelling. 423 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 4: All y'all gonna burn it hell, because you'll know I 424 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 4: didn't commit this, that's what you said. 425 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: Yeah I did. It was just like I said. 426 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 2: When it happened, I couldn't believe that they was able 427 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 2: to you know, a judge was able to see this 428 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 2: stuff taking place, and like it was. The courtroom was 429 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 2: packed with people and they seen that, you know, I 430 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 2: was actually wrongly convicted. 431 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 4: It was very hard for us to actually understand what 432 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 4: was happening to Marvin because we had this faith into 433 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 4: the system. 434 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: Later that month, Judge Robert Blazer sentenced Marvin to life 435 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: in prison. Well, Marvin's family grappled with their new reality. 436 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: Marvin was in his own health, sent to an adult 437 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: men's prison to serve his time, and in order to survive. 438 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: Marvin says he had to be tough. 439 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: When I first got to prison, I had to, you know, 440 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: do a lot of different things to establish my dominance 441 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 2: and let them know, like I'm not going for none 442 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 2: of this type of stuff. 443 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: Well did you have to do you're a kid that 444 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: winds up in an adult prison, Yeah, I had. 445 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 3: I was doing a lot of fighting when I came 446 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 3: to the county. I was fighting adults. 447 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: I understand now that a lot of people going through 448 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: a lot of things in there, So anything could send 449 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: somebody over there over the top, any little thing, or 450 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 2: it's just like that because you people facing life. I 451 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 2: was hopeless at that point. 452 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: Marvin told me, with time like that, some people have 453 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: nothing to lose, so they'll try to prove themselves by 454 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: picking on someone else like a kid. 455 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 2: You gotta, you know, protect yourself by any means, you 456 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Or you'll become a victim in 457 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: that place because in them environments like you test it 458 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: all the time, you know what I mean, Or just 459 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 2: like you got to prove yourself. 460 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: I was. 461 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 2: I was hanging out with people that I wasn't you know, 462 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: that wouldn't have the best my best interest at hand. 463 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 3: So I had to really learn a lot. 464 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: You know. 465 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: When I first got there, I was seventeen years old, 466 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 2: so I was, you know what I'm saying, just trying 467 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: to get by. 468 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: Actually, Marvin says he's lucky he's not facing time for 469 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: something he actually did, like fighting with other prisoners. 470 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: I could have harmed somebody in there, or somebody could 471 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 2: have harmed me because in them environments, like people I 472 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 2: don't understand like you test it all the time. 473 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: But Marvin says things changed when he wound up in 474 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: solitary confinement just shortly after he got to prison. 475 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: I ended up in a whole one time and I 476 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: read about the Innocent Project. It was at the last 477 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: page of the the article that I of this magazine 478 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 2: that I seen. It was literally the last page and 479 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 2: it was just saying, if you actually innocent, you wrongly convicted, please. 480 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: Contact Is this in a prison magazine or like what 481 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: magazine was the Innocence Project advertising in? 482 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 3: Yeah? Probably I think it was. It was like a 483 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 3: mirror of prison mirrors. 484 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was so yeah, it was at the 485 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: last page, and I'm like, damn, I'm like I I 486 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 2: literally ripped it out. So when I got out the whole, 487 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: when write to the lad Iberry, that's when I really 488 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: started finding out like, damn, You're not the only person 489 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 2: that's gone through this or that went through this. 490 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 3: So I started writing people I could beare to even write, No, I. 491 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: Still can't get over that you were a child, Like 492 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: thinking back for sixty and I don't know if I 493 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: would even comprehend what a life sentence is. 494 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I couldn't even describe it. Yep, I show you 495 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 3: a letter. 496 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: I was all over the place where explaining my story 497 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: of people and just trying to get them to understand 498 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: that I'm innocent. 499 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: Marvin says. A week later, the Great North Innocence Project 500 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: wrote him back and sent a questionnaire. He filled it 501 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: out and sent it back and then waited and waited, 502 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: but nothing. So we went ahead and filed an appeal 503 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: without them in two thousand and seven, but he was denied. 504 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: I got that letter in the mail and I sat 505 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: down and I read it, and I was just like, 506 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 2: all right, I gotta find a different way. Like literally, 507 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: I didn't never give up. I didn't cry, I didn't 508 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: I wasn't mad or nothing. I was just like, okay, 509 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 2: well they not listening at this time, you know, and 510 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 2: I'll go to I used to go tell the people 511 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: that I was close to in there, and I used 512 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: to tell them like, look, man, my appeal got denied, 513 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 2: and they and they ain't really give me no words 514 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 2: and encouraged me. I had to do it myself, you 515 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. I had to encourage myself that 516 00:25:59,200 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 2: it'll be okay. 517 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: Marvin says he didn't even want to tell his family 518 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: because he didn't want to disappoint them. Plus he was 519 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: on the outs with some family members like his cousin 520 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: Isaiah and his sister Marvina. 521 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 4: I didn't talk to Marvin for like three or four 522 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 4: years just because of family issues. 523 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: But Marvina and Marvin eventually reconnected and she became the 524 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: driving force behind his case. It all happened when Marvin 525 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: convinced her to take over his social media. We talked 526 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: over the phone a few times and Marvin was like, 527 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: just take my past code. I don't want your past go. 528 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 4: So I finally took the past code and I started 529 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 4: to work his social media account. And then as I 530 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 4: was sitting on my couch, I had started connecting with 531 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 4: people like all over the world in Hong Kong, people 532 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 4: from Detroit, Michigan, everywhere, and I was aligning myself anywhere 533 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 4: that I can to tell what had happened to my brother. 534 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 4: But then as I was sitting on a couch, on 535 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 4: a couch similar to this one, and I'm doing the Facebook, 536 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 4: I heard a voice in my head and it said, 537 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 4: you're not going to get your brother out behind this keyboard. 538 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: So Marvina hit the streets and made a sign with 539 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: Marvin on it, and I went out to this protest. 540 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 4: A sister by the name Amoni Dotton asked me if 541 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 4: I wanted to speak on my brother's behalf, and when 542 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 4: she pulled. 543 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: Me to the front, is like she pulled me through 544 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: a universe, and I felt this power. At the time, 545 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: North Minneapolis was dealing with a surge in violent crime. 546 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: Many residents were scared and elected officials and the police 547 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: responded by arresting people in record numbers, not all of 548 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: them guilty, and many from families just like Marvina's. 549 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 6: So family started to reach out to me and they say, 550 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 6: we found you on Facebook, We've seen you on a 551 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 6: news or we heard you speak here. 552 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: This is going on with our family. 553 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 4: I started organizing protests and press conferences for my brother 554 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 4: in Minneapolis. 555 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 6: Woke Marvin up at the age of sixteen in our 556 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 6: mother house. In two thousand and four, they gave him 557 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 6: life for a crime evidence shows he didn't commit this 558 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 6: t I was like popping up at the key at 559 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 6: the General's office, going to the Governor's house wherever I 560 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 6: needed to be, because I needed people to understand that 561 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 6: when we're talking about Wronfau incarceration. 562 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 4: That's a state of emergency. There's more than one way 563 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 4: to lynch amen, and what they're doing with wrongfo incarceration, 564 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 4: that's called a miling day lynching. 565 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: While Marvina fucked for Marvin on the outside, Marvin continued 566 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: researching his case and writing The Great North Innocence Project. 567 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: From the inside. 568 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 7: There was a couple of rounds where he had reached 569 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 7: out to us over the years, and there weren't any 570 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 7: real big breaks for a long time. But then finally 571 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 7: just a couple of years ago, we were able to 572 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 7: get some new evidence. Kind of the big break for 573 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 7: us was we were able to talk with Robbie Seely, 574 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 7: who was one of the eyewitnesses. 575 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: Robbie Ceely was the fourteen year old who said he 576 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: saw someone fleeing the flower shop. He'd initially id'd Marvin, 577 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,959 Speaker 1: but later on the stand expressed doubts. 578 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 7: He told us that he never actually got a good 579 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 7: look at Marvin's face, that he didn't know who the 580 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 7: perpetrator was, that he felt pressured to make an identification 581 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 7: because you know, he himself was a young kid at 582 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 7: the time and the police were saying this is a 583 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 7: really serious case. He felt like he needed to help 584 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 7: him out, and he did the best he could within 585 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 7: some very flawed procedures, but he had no idea and 586 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 7: he never saw the person's face and was willing to 587 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 7: go on the record with that. 588 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: From there, the prosecution's entire case crumbled. 589 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 7: Got recantation from Anthony Todd, who is one of one 590 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 7: of the witnesses who said a trial that Marvin had 591 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 7: told him he was going to go. 592 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 3: Hit a lick. 593 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: Remember he was fourteen, a middle schooler. 594 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 7: He originally said he didn't know anything until he got 595 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 7: into some trouble himself. And so the police go and 596 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 7: see him and and you know, similarly are sort of 597 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 7: threatening him with his own time, and he cracks in 598 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 7: the same way that Isaiah Harper did. 599 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: Marvin's cousin Isaiah. 600 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 4: The police had tried to talk to Isaiah many, many times. 601 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: They came to him multiple times, saying, well, you're going 602 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 2: to get charged with drive without license or these different 603 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 2: charges if you know you don't give us information. 604 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 7: Now, he had had tried to recance back at trial, 605 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 7: but he he, you know, sort of reaffirmed his reincantation 606 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 7: to us. He said that they had reason to think 607 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 7: it was Marvin and that they knew he had him 608 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,479 Speaker 7: from and that look, you know, if you are if 609 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 7: you're obstructing an investigation, you can get half the time 610 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 7: that the principal actor is looking at You could be 611 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 7: looking at fifteen years and he was I think he 612 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 7: was fourteen at the time. He was even younger than Marvin. 613 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 7: So a fourteen year old kid saying if you don't cooperate, 614 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 7: you could go to prison for fifteen years. 615 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: Teenagers being threatened to lie on another teenager. 616 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 7: I mean, it's not that hard to understand, like why 617 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 7: you would crack under those circumstances. 618 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: Marvina, did you talk to your cousin at that time? 619 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, he lived with me throughout it. I helped support 620 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 4: it Isaiah, even when folks out that I shouldn't have 621 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 4: had supported Isaiah. 622 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: That's still my blood cousin. 623 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 4: And at that time I knew that the police had 624 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 4: done something bad and then even using our cousin to test, 625 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 4: to make him throw him in adult prisons, to make 626 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 4: him say that his own blood cousin did that. Do 627 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 4: you you know how it made Isaiah feel walking into Thanksgiving, 628 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 4: everybody's whispering around his head. 629 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: He's fourteen years old. 630 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: A lot of my cousins and stuff family members, they 631 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 2: didn't even allow him over at their house because they like, 632 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: you send little Marvin and jail for life. And you know, 633 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: he's innocent. I got cousins that don't even still talk 634 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: to him to this day, and he's affected by that. 635 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: So they created more victims victims by doing that. 636 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 7: Well, we were able to get an eyewitness i ID 637 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 7: expert to do a really deep dive on some of 638 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 7: the problems with his case and the science behind eyewitness 639 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 7: identifications to show that this was just a really profoundly 640 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 7: flawed idea. 641 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: To start. The photo lineup was not done in a 642 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: double blind manner. 643 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 7: Which you know, means that the person administering the lineup 644 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 7: does and know who the suspect is, which is just 645 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 7: a really basic fundamental best practice for eyewinness identifications. 646 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: And then the police used to Marvin again in a 647 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: second lineup, this time a. 648 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 7: Live, old fashioned in person lineup, and that again just 649 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 7: violates sort of every best practice. No, and like it's 650 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 7: just a basic principle that you don't show the witnesses 651 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 7: the same suspect more than once. And there's a couple 652 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 7: of reasons for that that are pretty intuitive, Like, once 653 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 7: they've seen him, he's gonna look familiar to them, right, 654 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 7: because he's the one. He's the only common denominator, right, 655 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 7: He's the one they're showing me more than once. That 656 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 7: must be the guy they think did it. And of course, 657 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 7: with good procedures, that is exactly what you want to avoid, 658 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 7: is any suggestion to the witness of who the suspect is. 659 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 3: So that was. 660 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 7: Just enormously problematic, and. 661 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: From the jump one of the officers at the lineup 662 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: had raised concerns, Michael Keef. He said he wasn't confident 663 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: in the identification correct, that he had doubts as to 664 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: convicted defendants guilt. 665 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 7: Yeah, and he testified that he had problems with the 666 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 7: lineup procedures, and he objected at the time and it 667 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 7: was overruled. And he testified that this was the one 668 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 7: case he'd worked on that had resulted in a conviction 669 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 7: where he had real doubts about whether that person was guilty, 670 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 7: which was a pretty pretty dramatic moment in the court 671 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 7: that week. 672 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: Andrew and the Great North Innocence Project filed their case 673 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: in late June of twenty twenty three and had a 674 00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: hearing around Thanksgiving. By this point, the case was huge news. 675 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: When I came back from court, everybody that I knew, 676 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 2: I will everybody in the prison was just like walking 677 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 2: up to me, like, man, you was on court TV 678 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 2: because you see all the and stuff and seeing that 679 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 2: I was on front page to start your grew and 680 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 2: I'm like, look, it's it's impossible for them not to, 681 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 2: you know, give me some gestice at this time, because 682 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 2: it's it's everywhere, you know what I mean, people seeing that. 683 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 2: You know, I was actually growly convicted that they put 684 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 2: the facts in there, you know what I'm saying. So 685 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 2: it was just like me seeing that and stuff, I'm like, 686 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 2: I was in a good move. 687 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 3: I was just so happy. 688 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: And then Marvin's thirty sixth birthday came. 689 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 3: I was actually just being a chill that day. I 690 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 3: worked out. 691 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: It was gonna make me some food and just watch 692 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: the sport. I wasn't gonna watch the NBA like it was. 693 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 2: NBA was a Wednesday, I think it was Boston. It 694 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 2: was a couple of double hitters or something like that 695 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 2: that day. So I was keeping it simple actually, and 696 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 2: then I got a call and shit. 697 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 7: And December sixth we were able to call him and 698 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 7: tell him that the Stay Headed read that we had 699 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 7: proved our case, they were gonna concede, and that he 700 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 7: was gonna go home. It was pretty incredible. 701 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: What did he say? Do you even remember like what happened? 702 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 3: I mean, it was just I kind of could hear 703 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 3: a little happiness then Andrew voice. 704 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: Because you know, he more nuts alned with his stuff 705 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 2: and just like reserve and shit, So he really don't 706 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: he really you don't really see too much emotion from him, 707 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like that. 708 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 3: Was just like WHOA. 709 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 2: I couldn't even really I just was like Pam. I 710 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 2: just was excited because I knew that day was gonna come. 711 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: I never doubted it, you know what I'm saying. 712 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 3: I never, not once. 713 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 2: I never thought myself that you're never gonna I never 714 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: I knew that I wasn't gonna do no life since that, 715 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:42,439 Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. 716 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 3: I knew that because I'm I got too much fight 717 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 3: in you, you know what I'm saying. 718 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: A few days later, Marvin was a free man. 719 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 8: Almost twenty years ago, a terrible injustice occurred when this 720 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 8: state prosecuted Marvin Haines. 721 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: In front of the press and his family. Mary Moriarty, 722 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: the county's top prosecutor, looked Marvin in the eye and 723 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: offered an apology. 724 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 8: You lost the opportunity to graduate from high school, to 725 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 8: attend prom have relationships, attend weddings and funerals, and spend 726 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 8: time with your family around the holidays. I am so 727 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 8: deeply sorry for that. 728 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: Marvin says he was able to keep fighting because of 729 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:34,760 Speaker 1: his faith. 730 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 3: God finna give me do this. So it was more. 731 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 2: I had so much faith, man, You had no idea, 732 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 2: and I don't even know how I had that much faith. 733 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,479 Speaker 2: Even now, I still got the faith, but I always knew. 734 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 2: I'm like, man, look this stuff based on truth is 735 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 2: gonna reveal. 736 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 7: Marvin has had just an incredible support group, you know, 737 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 7: an incredible amount of support from his family. His sisters 738 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 7: have been standing by his side for years, just fighting 739 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 7: relentlessly for him. 740 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: Marvina founded Minnesota Wrongfully Convicted Judicial Reform because of Marvin's 741 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: wrongful conviction, but she says she hasn't forgotten about Randy 742 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: Shearer and Cynthia McDermott. 743 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 4: I'm really really sorry that that happened to that family, 744 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 4: and when the right person doesn't go to jail, we 745 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 4: know that that leaves the killer out to prey on 746 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 4: other people in our community. 747 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 1: She now works to help other families fighting for loved 748 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: ones who are wrongfully convicted. Marvin and I spoke at 749 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: this year's Innocence Network conference in New Orleans, just three 750 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 1: months after his release from prison. He told me about 751 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: his new place he just furnished, and how excited he 752 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 1: is to work. 753 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 2: I work at It's like a material handler typeverything, fork 754 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 2: lift driving, different. 755 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 3: Things like that. But my job. 756 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 2: I like my job, and stuff is cool because I 757 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 2: was in prison working doing similar work and I was 758 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 2: getting paid like twenty five cents an hour, you know 759 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 2: what I'm saying. So after two weeks of eighty hours, 760 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 2: my check fourteen dollars, you know what I'm saying. 761 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 3: Or it's just crazy. 762 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 2: So to know that I got at least I'm able to, 763 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 2: you know, take care of my responsibilities and stuff with 764 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 2: a job and just accomplish the goals at I'm sitting, are. 765 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: You thinking about like dating or having a family or 766 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: anything like that. 767 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 3: No, I don't. I don't thinking about no family. 768 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 2: I am dating though I got a girlfriend and stuff 769 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 2: that I've been with that that was rocking it out 770 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: with me when I was in there and stuff. She 771 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 2: been there through some through some hard times and help 772 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 2: me with a lot of stuff. So yeah, but yeah, 773 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 2: I don't see no kids in my future. I feel 774 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 2: like I had too much time taking away so I 775 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 2: kind of. 776 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 5: Wanted, like, just live your own mind in my life. 777 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I feel like I want to be the baby, 778 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, and be spoiled and all 779 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 3: that stuff. 780 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, does your girlfriend spoil you? 781 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 3: Yeah? 782 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 2: She do. Honestly, I'm a miss Like waking up to 783 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 2: breakfast and coffee and stuff like that, I was just 784 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 2: thinking like, damn, like to know, I'm not going to 785 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 2: wake up to that. You know, it's gonna be cray. 786 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 2: I gotta do it all myself, like she Yeah, it's 787 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 2: gonna be weird, but I do. 788 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 3: I'll be ay. 789 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: Marvin, how do you feel now you're out? But knowing 790 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: now that that back then there were police officers that 791 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: weren't they didn't feel good about this. Your cousin was 792 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: lying like, how do you feel now looking back that 793 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,919 Speaker 1: all of these people just didn't even feel good about 794 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: this conviction. 795 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, I'm not mad at 796 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 2: them because you know, carmar always come back around and 797 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 2: truth always prevails. So the end of the days like 798 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 2: I can't dwell on what they've done to me or 799 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: I feel some way about it, because luckily I got 800 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 2: my life and I'm still young and I'm able to 801 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 2: still go be productive, and I'm so blessed. 802 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 803 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the 804 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: links in the episode description to see how you can help. 805 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,720 Speaker 1: This episode was written by me Maggie Freeling, with story 806 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: editing and mixing by senior producer Rebecca Ibada. Our producer 807 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 1: is Kathleen Fink. Our researcher is Halle Dolce, with additional 808 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: mixing by Josh Allen and additional production help by Jeff Cliburn. 809 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wurtis. 810 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,720 Speaker 1: The music is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 811 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: Make sure to follow us on all social media platforms 812 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can 813 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful 814 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for 815 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: Good Podcasts in association with Signal Come Any Number One