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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Vernette. I'll

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Speaker 1: be your host today Emily Sempson with my co host Shane,

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Speaker 1: Just Shane. We're going to first start off with a

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Speaker 1: little update of Menindez because there's been a lot going

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Speaker 1: on in the press with that. We also have a

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Speaker 1: little update on Ruby Frankie, just because we like to

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Speaker 1: all the cases that we've talked about. We definitely like

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Speaker 1: to go back if there's been any changes in anything

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Speaker 1: and discuss that. And then all of you, not all

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Speaker 1: of you, but a lot of you have been asking

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Speaker 1: can you please do a breakdown of Karen Reid. So

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Speaker 1: we will get into that and I assume that's going

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Speaker 1: to be a lengthy conversation. So anyway, let's start with Menendez.

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Speaker 1: First of all, there was a hearing on Friday, and

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Speaker 1: this was not the actual resentencing hearing. This was the

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Speaker 1: DA Aachman actually trying to withdrawal the DA's original bid

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Speaker 1: for them to be recent. So does that make sense

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Speaker 1: to you? Do you understand what I'm trying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's trying to take back the motion for plus

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Speaker 2: for recensing.

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Speaker 1: Right, So the original motion was filed with the former

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Speaker 1: DA who was more progressive and he felt like they

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Speaker 1: should be resentenced and that they had served enough time.

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Speaker 1: So now Hawkman is saying, wait a minute, we don't

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Speaker 1: support it anymore. We have a new da, we have

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Speaker 1: a new view on the whole thing. We don't want

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Speaker 1: them to be allowed to go before the judge and

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Speaker 1: have a possible resentencing. So this hearing on Friday was

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Speaker 1: basically the judge determining whether the resentencing hearing will go forward,

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Speaker 1: and Judge Jessic after hearing both sides decided that the

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Speaker 1: resentencing will go forward. So now it is scheduled for

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Speaker 1: April seventeenth and eighteenth.

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Speaker 2: So on that day, yeah, should we learn should we

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Speaker 2: learn anything? Or is it going to just be another

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Speaker 2: continued date?

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Speaker 1: Okay, that is a great past.

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Speaker 3: What's going to take place on that day?

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Speaker 1: Right? So basically both sides are going to argue, and

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Speaker 1: Hawkman is going to argue that their liars, that they

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Speaker 1: lied about the abuse that they're in they should stay

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Speaker 1: in prison. And then obviously the defense is going to

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Speaker 1: argue that they've been at prison long enough, it's been

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Speaker 1: thirty five years, they're supported by their family, and that

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Speaker 1: they've been rehabilitated and that's the big thing with the resentencing.

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Speaker 1: It's about rehabilitation.

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Speaker 2: So it's not about it's not about whether the punishment

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Speaker 2: fit the crime. It's where are they now, right and

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Speaker 2: have they kind of been rehabilitated, as you just said,

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Speaker 2: to be able to go back out into society. So

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Speaker 2: it's not a matter of was it too harsh of

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Speaker 2: a punishment? View? Right?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so as far as a decision, I asked

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Speaker 1: Alex who is one of the Mendez's defense attorneys. She's

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Speaker 1: been on the podcast before, and I said, is it

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Speaker 1: possible that Judge Jessic makes a decision that day during

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Speaker 1: the hearings or would he go back and take it

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Speaker 1: under advisement and think about it and then issue a

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Speaker 1: decision later. And she said that he's one of those

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Speaker 1: judges that does make decisions from the bench, so it

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Speaker 1: is possible that he could decide the resentencing fate on

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Speaker 1: those days.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, So wait when's it? What's the date.

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Speaker 1: April seventeenth and eighteenth?

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Speaker 3: Where you going to go?

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Speaker 1: If I could get an invite, I would go. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I can make that happen. During the hearing, the prosecution

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Speaker 1: presented graphic crime scene images, which sparked outrage from defense

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Speaker 1: attorney Mark Gerragos. He accused the District Attorney's office of

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Speaker 1: re traumatizing the Menindaz family for political purposes. So apparently,

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Speaker 1: this presentation lasted nearly three hours, and prosecutors argued that

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Speaker 1: the brothers still hunker down in their bunker of lies

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Speaker 1: and deception, showing no this.

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Speaker 2: Is where well okay, but then why are they showing

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Speaker 2: graphic images and stuff. They're just going for shock value

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Speaker 2: to try to turn away people that think they should

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Speaker 2: be released.

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Speaker 1: I think that the prosecution is focusing on the brendousness

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Speaker 1: and the violence of the crime so that they can

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Speaker 1: take away from whether they've been rehabilitated or not, Like

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Speaker 1: we need to focus on how long they've been in prison,

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Speaker 1: what they've done in prison, their prison record, and if

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Speaker 1: they've been rehabilitated. But among the family that was at

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Speaker 1: this hearing was Terry Burrell, who is the sister of

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Speaker 1: Jose Menendez. She was speaking out for the first time

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Speaker 1: in decades. She usually doesn't speak. She's battling cancer. She

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Speaker 1: says that that the Meninda's brothers, they are like the

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Speaker 1: boys that I didn't have. She's battling colon cancer currently

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Speaker 1: and said she's worried that she won't live long enough

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Speaker 1: to see her nephew's freed. She tries to go and

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Speaker 1: see them as much as she can, but it's hard

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Speaker 1: because she lives in New Jersey and she's also eighty five.

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Speaker 2: But those are reasons to let them out either, right,

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Speaker 2: well as an unfortunate scenario. But that's not a reason

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Speaker 2: to let someone out because a relative of some sort

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Speaker 2: may not live long enough to see them.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't think that's I don't think her age

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Speaker 1: is something that should be taken into consideration. I think

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Speaker 1: what they take into consideration is that all the remaining

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Speaker 1: family members, I think there's like fourteen or something, all

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Speaker 1: think that they should be released.

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Speaker 2: Right all she were just talking about how they were

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Speaker 2: sharing the story of for finding cancer in her age

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Speaker 2: and not being able to see them.

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Speaker 1: Well, basically I was talking about her because there was

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Speaker 1: a TMC article that just came out recently that she

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Speaker 1: had to be hospitalized after this hearing because of the

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Speaker 1: shock of them showing graphic photos of the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: And under Marcy's law, apparently you're supposed to be warned

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Speaker 1: if there's going to be graphic crime scene images shown.

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Speaker 1: There was no warning.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So again, her having colon cancer and her age

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Speaker 2: has nothing to do with what the judge should take

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Speaker 2: into consideration for resentencing.

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Speaker 1: No it's not. But I'm just telling you about her

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Speaker 1: because she claims that the reason or the family claims

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Speaker 1: that the reason that she ended up hospitalized was because

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Speaker 1: the prosecution did not form than that they were going

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Speaker 1: to show shocking crime scene, very graphic images of jose

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Speaker 1: and Kitty. According to the Justice for Eric and Lyle coalition,

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Speaker 1: this aunt, Terry Burult, was found unresponsive in her hotel

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Speaker 1: room after attending the recent court hearing where graphic crime

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Speaker 1: scene images were shown without prior warning. So that's where

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Speaker 1: we're at with men Indez. So obviously we will keep

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Speaker 1: you updated on Menindez. They are going to have the

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Speaker 1: actual resentencing hearings, so we will have to actually we

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Speaker 1: will follow that and.

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Speaker 2: See you should go to the hearing. I could do

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Speaker 2: a live podcast from the factual workhouse house.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know if.

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Speaker 3: They would let me get on that, all right, we

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Speaker 3: know how it goes.

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Speaker 1: That's like because they don't have anything else to do,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's do a little update on the Ruby

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Speaker 1: Frankie case. Jody Hildebrandt challenges the high profile child abuse conviction.

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Speaker 1: This was an ABC article in twenty twenty three. Jody

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Speaker 1: Hildebrandt pleaded guilty to four counts of aggravated child abuse

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Speaker 1: alongside Ruby Frankie. Frankie both accepted plea deals and were

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Speaker 1: sentenced to up to thirty years in prison. At that time,

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Speaker 1: Jody Hillebrant said one of the reasons she didn't want

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Speaker 1: to go to trial was to protect the children from

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Speaker 1: having to emotionally relive the trauma. I like how this

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Speaker 1: woman was involved in amusing these children within her own home, right,

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Speaker 1: So she clearly was a part of what was going on,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, she's sensitive, She's sensitive

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Speaker 1: to their needs and she doesn't want to abuse them

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Speaker 1: any further.

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Speaker 2: She didn't want it to be public and she didn't

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Speaker 2: want to be outed anymore than she was. Literally, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're going to make a documentary on her. It was

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Speaker 2: going to all this raw footage was going to be shown, right,

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Speaker 2: so jokes on her and.

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Speaker 1: The petition which was filed on March twenty fourth, Hildebrett

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Speaker 1: claims her guilty plea was unlawfully induced and that she

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Speaker 1: did not fully understand what she was agreeing to. She writes, quote,

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Speaker 1: I did not know my rights, and my attorney did

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Speaker 1: not inform me of them. So on one side, she's saying, look,

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Speaker 1: I just agreed to the because I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: have the children testify. We didn't want to go to trial.

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Speaker 1: But now I don't understand my rights and I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that I was taking a plead deal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh I forgot my defense is I'm an idiot.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't paying attention now because the judge asks the

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Speaker 2: defendant directly those questions about the white the rights that they're.

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Speaker 3: Waiving, and if they know what.

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Speaker 2: They're entering, and they ask them, and that's the time

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Speaker 2: that the defense or the defendant answers directly, not the attorney.

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Speaker 2: The defendant answers directly to the judge, which is, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's not often that the defendant is speaking directly to

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Speaker 2: the judge, and in this case they are because.

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Speaker 3: They want to know. There's no one in between.

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Speaker 2: Us, between the judge and the defendant in making this decision, right,

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Speaker 2: So don't they ask them? Like several things like do

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Speaker 2: you know your rights? Do you know the penalty involved?

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Speaker 2: Do you know that it can't be retracted?

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Speaker 3: Or whatever? I mean?

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Speaker 2: They ask them a handful of questions. Make sure like

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Speaker 2: you know if you agree to this, you are doomed.

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Speaker 2: Your fate lies in my hands, and I decide what you.

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Speaker 1: Will right now.

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Speaker 2: Her kids didn't know what they were in for? Did

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Speaker 2: she ever think about that? They didn't know their rights?

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Speaker 1: What wasn't her kids? She Jody's the duck kids.

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Speaker 3: She's the She's the other piece of trash.

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Speaker 1: Yes, She's not the mom piece of trash. She's the

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Speaker 1: the other piece of trash.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: She argues that her plea was not made knowingly and voluntarily,

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Speaker 1: and it includes claims that her legal counsel was ineffective,

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Speaker 1: and that prosecutors failed to properly notify her of the charges,

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Speaker 1: and that she did not comprehend the consequences when so.

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Speaker 1: Eric Clark, an attorney for Ruby Frankie, responded in a

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Speaker 1: statement to ABC News saying that they were not shocked,

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Speaker 1: but weren't exactly expecting it either. He added, I'm super

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Speaker 1: confident that the entry of her plea will hold up

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Speaker 1: and that she won't be able to show that she

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Speaker 1: knowingly and involuntarily did not enter it. I mean they

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Speaker 1: have that mean sure they have. I mean they record

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Speaker 1: the trials and they have the trial transcript. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: the judge went through, like you said, and asked her

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Speaker 1: all the questions. So we will see what happens with that.

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Speaker 1: The court will now the court will have to determine

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Speaker 1: whether Hildebrand's rights were actually violated in the process, and

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Speaker 1: if this could justify a do over of her case.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go with no. They're going to deny

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Speaker 1: her emotion and she's going to spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time in prison. All right, let's move on to Karen Reid.

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Speaker 1: I have done a lot of research on Karen Reid lately,

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Speaker 1: and thank you so many of you. I get so

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Speaker 1: many dms on Karen Reid. It is a very controversial case,

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Speaker 1: and as we discussed earlier, we did a very brief

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Speaker 1: episode on Karen Reid. If you want to go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to it, I would say it's more comedic

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Speaker 1: because Shane knew nothing about the case, so all he

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Speaker 1: does is tell me that she's guilty. I enough that

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Speaker 1: she's guilty through the entire time, we did a very

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Speaker 1: brief overview of just allegedly what happened that night. But

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Speaker 1: now I'm excited that we're going to take.

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Speaker 3: A deep dive into Karen Reid, into her.

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Speaker 1: First trial, and into a lot of the controversial evidence.

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Speaker 1: And I will tell you, I think this is such

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Speaker 1: a hot button case because there really isn't a smoking gun.

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Speaker 1: There isn't anything. There's not an Aha moment where you say, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was definitely a cover up or yes, she definitely

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Speaker 1: did it. I think you can look at all the

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Speaker 1: evidence and you can weigh it and you can see

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Speaker 1: both sides. And that's where this is where this case

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Speaker 1: has become so heated, because you have a very very

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Speaker 1: tight line drawn in the sand or in the snow

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Speaker 1: with this case. You've got people that are hardcore supporters

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Speaker 1: that is a cover up and Karen Reid is innocent,

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Speaker 1: and you have hardcore supporters that say she backed her

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Speaker 1: suv into him and killed him that night. And so

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Speaker 1: we're going.

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Speaker 3: To get into it.

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Speaker 1: Let's just go into a little summary of what happened.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to watch, it's on Max. It's

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Speaker 1: also on the Animal Planet. But it's called a body

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Speaker 1: in the Snow the Trial of Karen Reid, and it

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Speaker 1: explores the case through interviews with Karen Reid as well

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Speaker 1: as her legal team. It also shows a lot of

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Speaker 1: scenes of the war room. This is where they rented

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Speaker 1: some conference room or a hotel room or something. And

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting because it shows the attorneys and Karen

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Speaker 1: Reid actually discussing the case and witnesses and what they're

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Speaker 1: going to ask. And you know, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of times when I was wondering to myself, is this

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Speaker 1: docuseries helpful to Karen or is it detrimental? It shows

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Speaker 1: a lot of her thoughts, It shows her conversations with

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Speaker 1: her attorneys. It just makes me wonder is this helpful

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Speaker 1: to her or is this detrimental to her?

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Speaker 3: Well? Is it Jeneraly's NACo's never helpful for the dependent

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Speaker 3: to speak, right? I mean I.

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Speaker 1: Don't think so. I mean, here's my opin.

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Speaker 2: If you do a good job here and like, oh

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Speaker 2: there are good liar. If you do a bad job,

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Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, we knew she was lying.

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Speaker 3: I was tough. Yeah, I was just.

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Speaker 1: Interested thinking that her legal team and her really allowed

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Speaker 1: them to put themselves out there and be judged by

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Speaker 1: the public after this first trial, I will tell you

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Speaker 1: my thoughts. I don't find Karen Reid very likable. But

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that she's guilty. It just means that

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Speaker 1: I don't find her very likable. So The Trial of

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Speaker 1: Karen Reid explores a case through interviews with Karen Reid

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Speaker 1: as well as her legal team, including her attorneys David

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Speaker 1: Yanetti and Alan Jackson and Elizabeth little So. Those are

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Speaker 1: the three key attorneys for Karen Reid. The docu series

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Speaker 1: progresses chronologically, starting with her arrest and district court arragnement,

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Speaker 1: following by her indictment on second degree murder charges, and

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Speaker 1: this was in June of twenty twenty two. It also

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Speaker 1: covers her trial, which began in April of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: The series features previously unseen footage, including video of Reed's

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Speaker 1: arrests related to the murder charge. I will say during

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Speaker 1: her arrest, I did think it was interesting that she

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Speaker 1: was very she was very emphatic that she'd be allowed

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Speaker 1: to change her clothes because she kept talking about how

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Speaker 1: this is going to be on TV. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I can understand that you want to change your clothes.

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Speaker 2: You would do that you killed me, you would be

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Speaker 2: still be getting glam and everything.

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, wait, you can't arrest me. I have

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Speaker 1: so apparently when she was arrested.

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Speaker 2: Act if you were getting arrested in any situation, that'd

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Speaker 2: probably be the team you'd call for.

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Speaker 3: CD's your one phone call.

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Speaker 2: Now re read to come over into your air so

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Speaker 2: you look good for your mug shot.

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Speaker 1: Well if it's well, I know if I had a bunch.

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Speaker 2: Shot and you have not denied it once, you have

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Speaker 2: agreed with everything I've said so far.

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Speaker 1: It is what it is, all right, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the prosecution and the defense. So, according to prosecutors, Karen

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Speaker 1: Reid struck John O'Keeffe with her SUV while dropping him

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Speaker 1: off at a fellow officers home in the early hours

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Speaker 1: of January twenty ninth, of twenty twenty two. Now the

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Speaker 1: officer is a sergeant and his name is Brian Albert.

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Speaker 1: He is a key player in this case, so you

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Speaker 1: need to remember his name. According to prosecutors, Karen Reid

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Speaker 1: struck John O'Keeffe with her SUV while dropping him off

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Speaker 1: at a fellow officer's home. This is thirty four Fairview

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Speaker 1: Reed's defense team has presented an alternative version of events. Basically,

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Speaker 1: what the prosecution is saying is that O'Keeffe and Karen

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Speaker 1: Reid and some friends went out drinking. They had a

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Speaker 1: lot of drinks. I think she talks about in the

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Speaker 1: docu series how many drinks she has.

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Speaker 3: So she volunteered that information.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Then after they go to two bars, they get

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Speaker 1: invited to a house party at Brian Albert's home. And again,

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Speaker 1: he's a sergeant in a police department. According to Karen

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Speaker 1: in this docuseries, she doesn't really know him, and she

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Speaker 1: doesn't know a lot of people there, so she doesn't

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Speaker 1: know if they're welcome. So when they drive to the home,

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Speaker 1: she stops outside the home and she tells John go

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Speaker 1: into the house and see if we're welcome there. And

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Speaker 1: she waits in the car and she's like call me

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Speaker 1: or text me, like let me know if I should

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Speaker 1: come in.

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Speaker 3: That's weird.

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Speaker 1: This is where everything goes blurry and dark. And I

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Speaker 1: don't understand why no one knows what happens within this

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Speaker 1: like five weeks.

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Speaker 3: No people do know what happened. Well, why isn't.

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Speaker 1: Why exactly why is it not known that when allegedly

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Speaker 1: she pulls up to the house and he gets out

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Speaker 1: of the car to go inside the house. No one

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Speaker 1: knows if he actually went into the house or if

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Speaker 1: he got hit by her. And then we just know

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Speaker 1: later that his body's found in the front yard, laying

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Speaker 1: in the snow and he's dead. Why does there's no

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Speaker 1: a house full of cops. There was Brian Higgins was there,

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Speaker 1: who was an ATF agent, and there was Brian Albert,

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Speaker 1: who's a cop who owned the house. And I think

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Speaker 1: those were the only two cops, and then there were

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Speaker 1: some other There were some other women there, like Jen McCabe,

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Speaker 1: who is another player in this, and then there were

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Speaker 1: some other people, and I think there were some teenagers.

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Speaker 1: But there was a party.

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Speaker 3: Whether did they look at fingerprints in the house or

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Speaker 3: DNA in the house, We will.

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Speaker 1: Get to that, But I am just my mind is

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Speaker 1: reeling that no one really knows what happened within that

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Speaker 1: time frame. Karen Reid claims that she saw John entered

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Speaker 1: the breezeway door. I think it's suspicious whether she actually

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Speaker 1: saw him enter the house or not, because I don't

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Speaker 1: believe that that was initially something that she said. I

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Speaker 1: think that was something that she said later that she

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Speaker 1: did see him enter the house.

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Speaker 2: Oh, like, I mean there were Initially she just said

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Speaker 2: I dropped him off. I believe she dropped off and

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Speaker 2: drove away. And now she's saying no, I saw him

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Speaker 2: going right.

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Speaker 1: And now everyone within the house claims that he never

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Speaker 1: entered the house. So here we are with these conflicting stories.

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Speaker 1: So Reech's defense team has presented an alternative version of events.

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Speaker 1: They suggest that O'Keefe entered the residents at thirty four

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Speaker 1: Fairview Road where a gathering was taking place, and that

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Speaker 1: he may have been assaulted inside the home, possibly even

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Speaker 1: attacked by a dog, before ultimately being found unresponsive outside

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Speaker 1: in the snow. So the defense is claiming that this

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Speaker 1: is a cover up, that John did enter the home,

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Speaker 1: and that there was some type of altercation maybe between

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Speaker 1: Brian Higgins, who was an ATF agent, and John O'Keefe,

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Speaker 1: because previously there was some flirty sexy text going on

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Speaker 1: between Brian Higgins, this ATF agent, and Karen Reid while

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Speaker 1: she was dating John O'Keefe. Oh my gosh. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I had to watch the scene like the testimony of

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Speaker 1: him reading all the texts between the two of them,

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Speaker 1: and I was so uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: Why was he reading them?

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Speaker 1: Because when he was on the stand, the defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: when he was cross examining him, had him pull.

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Speaker 3: Up, had this check on this screen come from him.

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Speaker 1: They wanted him to be uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: And it was so uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Do you like me? I like you? I think you're hot.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were hot from Jump. I mean, first

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Speaker 1: of all, it sounded so juvenile that these are like

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Speaker 1: forty year olds.

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Speaker 3: Like Animel's text, Yah heard probably the same content.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're hot? Do you think I'm hot?

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Speaker 3: I think you're Wasn't there anything juicy in it?

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Speaker 2: No, that was it.

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Speaker 3: I was just like you look good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was really uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: It just sounded I don't thought there'd be something more.

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Speaker 1: Oh you wanted, like like what did juicy juicy?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess they weren't that juicy. They were

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Speaker 2: just embarrassed. I like you, I like you, I like you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I liked you from Jump. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: what that What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: And she goes from jump Whim's jump and I don't

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Speaker 2: know our totally sigma is that I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know it's jump.

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Speaker 2: I don't know anyway, all right, when I was a kid,

398
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Speaker 2: it was just cool, awesome and like rat like were

399
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Speaker 2: the slang words.

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Speaker 1: You didn't say that you liked a girl from jump? No, okay,

401
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,639
Speaker 1: so anyway I want to jumper. Yeah, I can't imagine

402
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 1: that you said that. So here we have two competing

403
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Speaker 1: theories of what actually happened that evening. So we have

404
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 1: the prosecution claiming that Karen Reid was drunk, that she

405
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Speaker 1: and John were fighting because they did have some texts

406
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Speaker 1: earlier in the day where they were like not getting along,

407
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Speaker 1: they were arguing with each other.

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Speaker 3: That she pulls up where they're texting just.

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Speaker 1: She's she's always like accusing him of like having affairs

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Speaker 1: with other women, and I think they just had a

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Speaker 1: tumultuous relationship.

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Speaker 2: Was there anything like relevant, like like and ready over

413
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Speaker 2: and there was no smoking gun in front of someone's else, There.

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Speaker 1: Was nothing like that. So basically the prosecution is claiming

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Speaker 1: that Karen Reid pulls up to thirty four fair View,

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Speaker 1: this is around twelve thirty, that John gets out of

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Speaker 1: the car, and that there was some argument or something

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Speaker 1: going on between the two of them, and that Karen

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Speaker 1: does a three point turn and within her doing that,

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Speaker 1: she backs over him and that he ends up laying

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Speaker 1: on the lawn dead.

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Speaker 3: She claims, Wait, she's drunk too, right.

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Speaker 1: She's drunk. He's drunk, She's drunk. He actually is carrying

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Speaker 1: a cocktail glass with a drink in his hand as

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Speaker 1: he's leaving the car like he brought it had a

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Speaker 1: ROADI yeah, with him, and that glass is found at

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Speaker 1: the scene around him, around the body. There's a cocktail

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Speaker 1: glass broken at the scene.

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Speaker 3: Can I just say this is why drinking stupid? Sorry

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Speaker 3: it is, no.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they have all these professionals that have no

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Speaker 2: idea what's going on or covering it up or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and someone's dead.

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Speaker 3: Stupid. Okay, but let's talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Let's just talk about the cocktail glass for a second,

436
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Speaker 1: because I never actually put this together until I just

437
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: said it. But if if, what the defense claims is

438
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Speaker 1: that he was killed inside the house and then he

439
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: was like drug out onto.

440
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: The lawn to make it look like hes for a

441
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 2: next home.

442
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: They also take your cocktail glass too, he threw it out? Right, then,

443
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: how is the cocktail glass that he was carrying now

444
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 1: broken and around his body? Unless he carried the cocktail

445
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: glass into the house, got in an altercation. Apparently the

446
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: dog attacked him. Then they take him out onto the

447
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 1: lawn and they're like, be sure to get the pieces

448
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: of that cocktail glass and put those around the body

449
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 1: so that when we lie and say that Karen reads.

450
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: Very sophisticated killers.

451
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: I mean, if there's just a lot.

452
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 2: Maybe he went in with the cocktail. They said you

453
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 2: can't bring your own drinks or you're too drunk, and

454
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: he said, not unmuch? Is you going to cry it

455
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 2: for my.

456
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: Cold dead hands?

457
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: And there was a fight then ensued, and it resulted

458
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: in him being dead outside.

459
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 3: With the cocktail.

460
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: I like, I'm sure we're barely touching the surface of

461
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: this case, and you have already come up with alternative theories,

462
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: so I'm trying to solve it, all right, So anyway,

463
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: here we go. Let's get back to his injuries. And

464
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: his injuries are very suspect as well. Now he has

465
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: blunt force trauma to his head.

466
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 3: He also has cold and that could not have been

467
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: from the car. Is that determined?

468
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: Well? I know that there was testimony from a medical

469
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: examiner saying yes, it could be consistent. And then there's

470
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: other people that were like, oh, it's not really consistent.

471
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 3: So it's not one way.

472
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: No, no, But here's my question. If he has blunt

473
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: forced trauma to his head and he's a tall guy

474
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: two hundred pounds six to two or something like that,

475
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: to me, yes, exact say build his shame. Yes, So

476
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: how does he get blunt forced trauma to his head

477
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: from an.

478
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: Suv if she backed Because I don't know this, but

479
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: he could have if if she ran into him, he

480
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: could have hit his head on the trunk.

481
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 3: He could have hit his head on the ground or on.

482
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: This or on the curve or something I guess. So

483
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: you're saying she could have backed end to him and

484
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: the force could have been so forceful that he flies

485
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: backwards and he hits his head and then he gets played.

486
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, does he have any other damage

487
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: type of parts of his body?

488
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: Yes, So his arm, this is this is where the

489
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: defense really comes in. His arm has a lot of

490
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: like it looks like scratches and lacerations and puncture wounds.

491
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: And now there was another person, an expert witness, that

492
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: testified that those injuries were consistent with a dog.

493
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 3: With one arm or one arm on his.

494
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: Arm, just one arm. I believe it was his right arm.

495
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 3: Which is kind of if he's right handed, you'd be

496
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 3: using as defense.

497
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: And you know, I looked at here's a picture of

498
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: it if you want to look, and I'll tell you.

499
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: I have three dogs and I've seen a dog bite

500
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: and they do the teeth do puncture like.

501
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: It looks like he scratches from a dog.

502
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: He said, Well, they said it was. It was consistent.

503
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: The expert witness that apparently was an expert in dog

504
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: bites said that it looked like scratches and puncture wounds

505
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: from like K ninety.

506
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 3: So so what was your point?

507
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: Well, my point is is that Brian Album, who lives

508
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: at thirty four Fair of View, where apparently Karen Reid

509
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: saw John O'Keeffe go into the house, owned a German

510
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: shepherd named Chloe who apparently had a propensity to bite

511
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: and was aggressive. And now we have John O'Keeffe in

512
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: his front yard with a cocktail glass with wounds that

513
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: looks similar to a dog attack on one arm. The

514
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: dog was also rehomed after this happened. So I don't know,

515
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: but Chloe does.

516
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: Not live with his protection.

517
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: Yes, Chloe is in the witness No, the dog witness

518
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: protection programs.

519
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 2: I guess.

520
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: So there's that, So keep that in the back of

521
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: your mind as we go through the evidence. Apparently, let's

522
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: just do a little more detailed into his actual injuries.

523
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: He had traumatic brain injury. O'Keefe had a skull fracture

524
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: and brain bleed. He had facial injuries, cuts, bruises and

525
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: abrations on his face, and he had rib fractures, multiple

526
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: ribs to fractures.

527
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 3: Sounds like.

528
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: That.

529
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 3: Sounds like you got hit by a car. It's not

530
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: like a dog attack.

531
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: Well, I think with the dog theory, it's that.

532
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it is questionable why there's scratches like that.

533
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: But here's the thing with the dog theory, and I

534
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: understand that they're saying that if he did the defense

535
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: is claiming he entered the house and he got into

536
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: altercation with the men, right, and that there was a

537
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: fight the dog and the dog got involved because you know, Togo,

538
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: we have a German shepherd. If I got in a

539
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: fistfight with someone, my dog's gonna jump in. There's no

540
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: doubt about that.

541
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, I know, And so the dog is

542
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: scared of trash cans.

543
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: What else is he scared of? Something else? Like all

544
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 3: burglar has to do and come in our house is

545
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 3: bring a trash can.

546
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: Well, it would have to be a run. He doesn't

547
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: like the big trash cans, the street trash cans, he's

548
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: not scared of, like wastebaskets.

549
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's tough. He can handle the waist basket, he is.

550
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: Anyway, O'Keefe had bite marks and scratches on his arm,

551
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: and there were lacerations on his head and body.

552
00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: Well, this all sounds like reasonable doubt. Really, are you

553
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: doubting that? I said there's doubt?

554
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: No, I agree with you.

555
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: I mean at the end, by the time we yes,

556
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm not saying she did or didn't do it. I'm

557
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: saying it's all circumstantial. It seems to walk a very

558
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 2: fine line. It's like on the fence, you could.

559
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 3: Go either way.

560
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: That's why this case. And so that's reasonable doubt. And

561
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: if it's reasonable doubt, it's a legal standard. It's not

562
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: a moral standard or a hunch or whether she did

563
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: or didn't do it.

564
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: It's whether legally there's enough and there isn't enough so far, okay, So.

565
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: Crash reconstruction specialists previously testified in her first trial that

566
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: O'Keefe's had injuries did not align with trauma typically seen

567
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: in pedestrian vehicle collisions, and that the condition of Read's

568
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: vehicle did not match the damage. More expect this.

569
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 2: Is not a typically seen Okay, well maybe this is

570
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: a different situation.

571
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: Additionally, a retired er doctor and forensic pathologists who this

572
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: is a person that was an expert in dog bites,

573
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: testified for the defense, suggesting that some of them Keey's injuries,

574
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: particularly those to his arm, were more consistent with a

575
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: possible dog attack. Now, I will tell you, and in

576
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: the trial they tested, they did DNA testing for dog

577
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: dna and there was no dog DNA found, but they

578
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: found pig dna. Now, when they said that and I

579
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: was watching and they said pig dna, the first thing

580
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: I thought of was, well, dog treats are a lot

581
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: of times pig ears and made of pig. So maybe

582
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: the pig DNA came from the dog's mouth. But the dog,

583
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I had a dog treat or something.

584
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just there's no dog DNA found.

585
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: There's pig dna.

586
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: That's unusual. There's there's no pigs in the vicinity, not

587
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: that I have no, Well, I don't know. It was

588
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 2: a pig farm near fair View Lane or whatever.

589
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: Thirty four fair of View.

590
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: You keep doing these people, you keep you want somebody

591
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: to go out there.

592
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: And no, I just love the address because they say

593
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: it over and over. It's all like what went down

594
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: at thirty four fair View. Well, Brian Albert has told

595
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: the house since then, and apparently yeah, and he rehomed

596
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: his dog. He rehomed the dog, sold the house, and

597
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: apparently he redid the basement floors right right after this

598
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: incident as well. But apparently he had already redout the

599
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: basement floors in twenty eighteen and then he redid the bastion.

600
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: Were there any suspicious deaths in twenty eighteen on this

601
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: fair View lay, No suspicions.

602
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 3: You know that there might be redid the basement?

603
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: Well no, I think he originally redid the basement because

604
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: the basement needed to be redone.

605
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: And then he read you're saying he already he just

606
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: did it. Why is he doing it again? I was thinking,

607
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: probably does it every time he killed someone in his house. No, Okay,

608
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: I think he also rehome a dog in twenty eighteen.

609
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: Maybe, but he did redo the basement flooring in twenty eighteen,

610
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: and then someone like a contractor came forward and said

611
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: that he redid the basement flooring again in twenty twenty

612
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: two after this incident occurred. And also one more thing,

613
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: there was never any investigation done inside of this house.

614
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: They did not do any fingerprinting. They did not look

615
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: for any blood. They did not look for DNA that

616
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: would have.

617
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: Answered a lot of questions one way or another, right,

618
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: I mean, really the main they found no DNA of

619
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: his in the house that would have said something, right,

620
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: found some DNA depending on where it was, or fingerprints

621
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: that would say something exactly.

622
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you didn't.

623
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 3: Have ring footage. No, there's no ring footage out.

624
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: They have cameras on the four fair View that I

625
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: don't know about, but there is no footage that I

626
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: have seen anywhere. There is a lot of footage of

627
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: Karen Reid pulling into John O'Keeffe's house. There's ring footage

628
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: of her SUV at his home.

629
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: Whose footage is that his?

630
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: At she goes after she drops him off, She goes

631
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: to his house. The biggest question in this case, if

632
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: you had to boil this case down to one question,

633
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: it would be whether or not John O'Keeffe actually entered

634
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: the house that night.

635
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: You're saying one question that, Yeah, you're right, that's a

636
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: question that would then answer a lot of other questions, right,

637
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: because their claim that he never came to the house, right,

638
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: it would support her claim that he.

639
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: Did enter the house.

640
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: Right.

641
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: And then now it's kind of like the burden lightly

642
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: speaking to burdens on them to explain what happened he

643
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: went in the house.

644
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: Now telephone right, And as far as I know, I

645
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: don't believe he had ever visited that home before. That

646
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: was his first time being there. So I'm saying, why

647
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: was that inside of this home not investigated? Why were fingerprints?

648
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: Why did they not look for blood? Why did they

649
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: not exactly? And that's the that's exactly, and that's the

650
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: argument as to why this is a cover up and

651
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: not just a basic hit and run. Let's get to

652
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: the broken tail light. The broken tail light is another.

653
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: Thing that just like okay, the brooktail it's on her car.

654
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot with this bourbon tail light. I

655
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: gotta break this down. Reed's defense team has offered an

656
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: explanation for the damage to her sub's tail light, suggesting

657
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: it may have occurred she accidentally backed into O'Keefe's vehicle

658
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: while leaving to search for him on January twenty ninth,

659
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: So after she leaves the scene, she goes to John

660
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: O'Keefe's house and goes to sleep at his house. She

661
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: also calls him like fifty times or something and leaves

662
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: voicemails screaming at him, calling him a pervert.

663
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: Which is a little well, I doesn't say why she

664
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: leave voicemails that textes people on new voicemails so much more.

665
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 2: But I guess she was so angry she'd wanted to

666
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 2: scream at him.

667
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. If she hit him and ran

668
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: over him and then she goes to his house, was

669
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: she and she's drunk? Did she? Was? She really like

670
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: a criminal mastermind that she's like, now I'm going to

671
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: call him fifty times and scream at him and call

672
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: him a pervert.

673
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: She have any other phone?

674
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: Calls her text during this time like like do you

675
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: still like me?

676
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: No, Tim Brian Higgins, not that I know of, But

677
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: it's basically her leaving.

678
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: Lots of voicemails, single mouth, do you still like me?

679
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 3: Like you she should say anything like that.

680
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: No, she didn't claim to be single yet. No, all

681
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: right there, okay, So there's ring camera footage that shows

682
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: Red hitting his vehicle and the same spot her headlight.

683
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: Her tail light is broken. So there's ring footage that

684
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: shows her backing her suv out and she backs her

685
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: suv into John O'Keefe's suv. His sub's parked like this.

686
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: She backs out and hits it like this, and you

687
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: can see his car rocking.

688
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: I don't see contact.

689
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: It looks like there's contact made. You can see the

690
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: car till a little bit his car, so.

691
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: It looks like it's his car rocking.

692
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: His car's rocking. So apparently she backs out of his garage.

693
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: This is to go look for him because he does has.

694
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: To come home because he's and Yeah, so she calls

695
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: him fifty times and yells and screens at him.

696
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's worried that he's not home.

697
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: Well, she calls and screams at him because she thinks

698
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: she This is where her phone calls and her voicemails

699
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: to him. I think are good evidence for the defense,

700
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: even though the prosecutors like to use it to show

701
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: that they have a volatile relationship. But if you look

702
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: at the timing, she's calling him and leaving these crazy

703
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: voicemails after he's already dead and he's in the yard.

704
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: Apparently this is after she's driven away from from Brian

705
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: Albert's home. So if she's calling him and screaming at

706
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: him and accusing him of having an affair with some

707
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: woman inside the house and that's why he never came

708
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: back out to me, that shows her men's reea that

709
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: she thinks that he's inside the house having an affair

710
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: with with a woman, and that's why he's not answering.

711
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: I you know, I understand, I understand that. But her voicemails,

712
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: I mean, if she's if.

713
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 3: She's usually those calls are more like he maybe, where.

714
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: Are you right? I saw you walk into Brian O'Keefe's

715
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: house right now and you're not coming.

716
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, you went to the side porche.

717
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: What's that call? Where are you right? But she's not.

718
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: She's saying I and hate you, John, I hate you.

719
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: You're a pervert? John? Are you effing that girl? John?

720
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: So to me. It's just it's her mental state that

721
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: she thinks he's inside the house having an affair with

722
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: some woman, and that's why he's not responding to her.

723
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: Why would she drop him off at a house where

724
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 2: she thinks he's gonna have an affair because he was

725
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: supposed to.

726
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: Come back out and tell her if she was welcome

727
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: to come in or not, and he never could wait

728
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: she wait, I think she'll like wait in like five minutes.

729
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 3: It wasn't very long.

730
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: The timeline is very short from when she pulled up.

731
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 3: Well, the timeline that she no, I'll tell.

732
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: You there's a timeline because they have a cell phone

733
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: data of his phone being at thirty four Fairview when

734
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: they pull up, and.

735
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 3: Then that time's not really disputed.

736
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: Then right, No, I'll tell you. I actually, okay, here's

737
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: the timeline. It's this is very short. Twelve twenty four.

738
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: She arrives at thirty four Fairview twelve thirty six. Karen

739
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: reads her phone connects to John O'Keefe's WiFi. John O'Keefe is,

740
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: that's his house. So she drops him off at twelve

741
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: twenty four and she's back at his house by twelve

742
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: thirty six. I can't do math. But that's not a

743
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: very long time. What is that called minutes? So there's

744
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: only a twelve minute time period between the times she

745
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 1: drops him off and that she arrives back at his house.

746
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: She arrives at his house at twelve thirty six. At

747
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: twelve thirty seven, she sent to her first crazy voicemail saying, John,

748
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: I effing hate you. So this timeframe of her dropping

749
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: him off, thinking he goes in the house, and then

750
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: allegedly running over him, and then driving back to his

751
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: house is twelve minutes. So it's a really short time period. Anyway,

752
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: Let's get back to the tail light. So the defense

753
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: claims that she backed into his car. That's where her

754
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: tail light was damaged. The thing is there were forty

755
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: something pieces of tail light found around his body, but

756
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: the tail light pieces were found during a second search,

757
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: not the initial search.

758
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, after the first search when they sprinkled some tight Okay, so.

759
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 3: Let's go free size. They're like, come back in search.

760
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: So they find his body on the lawn at six

761
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning and the police come and they

762
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: use a snow blower to clear away the snow because

763
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: there was a blizzard.

764
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 3: That night.

765
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: This is another problem is the weather that night. So

766
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: as they're blowing away the snow and they're recovering the body,

767
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: there's no tail light pieces found none. Then a search

768
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: team goes back hours later after her car has been

769
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: confiscated by police and taken into police custody. Then when

770
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: a second search team goes back to search the yard

771
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: and the crime area, they find forty something pieces of

772
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: tail light. So basically you have to think, Okay, when

773
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: they found his body originally in the snow at six o'clock.

774
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: In the morning, provided I didn't find it the first time.

775
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: The beau of the snow, but they had a snowblower

776
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: and they were blowing.

777
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: There's forty pieces and they didn't find one, not one,

778
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: not one.

779
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: But when they go back and search later they find

780
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: forty something pieces.

781
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: I'd say air on the side of caution and put

782
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 3: them on jail.

783
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: Everybody, just everyone involved.

784
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 3: You're all crooked one way or another.

785
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, But let me ask you because.

786
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 3: You're I mean, I'm saying that lightly. Of course, I

787
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 3: don't mean that.

788
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: Sort of You've been in a lot of car crashes.

789
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: Namely with you as the driver.

790
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: Yes, here's my question. If she backed into him and

791
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: hit him with the tail light, wouldn't break into forty

792
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: something pieces.

793
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: I feel like that that you've backed into my car.

794
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 3: There were no tail eye pieces, just a lot of

795
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: damage to my car.

796
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: Right, But I followed by Emily running the house screaming

797
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 2: at me that it was my fault.

798
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: I parked a car. It was, yeah, excuse me for

799
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: parking in the driveway, Emily anyway, she says. Then you

800
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 3: say I.

801
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: Didn't see your car really because you have you have

802
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: beepers and cameras and mirrors and.

803
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 3: The sun shining on my car and you didn't see it.

804
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: Okay, back to Karen Reid.

805
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 3: You're like, I didn't die that day. If I died

806
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: that day would be very questionable. Did she back into him?

807
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 3: What was the motive?

808
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: Okay again, I'm just asking do you think if you

809
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: backed into someone and you hit them, would your tail

810
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: light have forty pieces different broken pieces? To me, that

811
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: seems like over like. I just I don't feel like

812
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: a tail light breaks into that many pieces, just like you.

813
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 3: No, I when you said forty that didn't sound realistic.

814
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound realistic at all.

815
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 3: If she did it was this freaking tail.

816
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: Well, and how that's like a tail light explode. Now

817
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: you know when it sounds that many.

818
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: Pieces And I certainly don't know this, but just as

819
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: the lad person, this is what it sounds like.

820
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: They took a tail light, smashed it with a hammer.

821
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what, and then carried it over and sprinkled

822
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 2: it around. They did snap the tail light or or

823
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: bust it. They smashed it with a hammer and then

824
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: used all the pieces and threw it there.

825
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: That's what it feels like.

826
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: Many days apart was the first, not finding the tail

827
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 2: light to the time they fell it was. It was

828
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: the same day.

829
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: So basically they found his body at six am. So

830
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: the police come, they mark off a crime scene. They

831
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: used the snowblower. They found blood at the scene. They

832
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: put the blood in solo cups. You know those red

833
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: solo cups. That's what they put the blood evidence in.

834
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: They and they put that inside a grocery bag.

835
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 2: It's funny that the house of Drunks had a bunch

836
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: of solo sandy.

837
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: No, it was the cops. I don't know what they

838
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: got the solo cups. I mean, maybe they got it

839
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: from the neighbors.

840
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: As police issued solo cups tump aware right solo cups.

841
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: So during that initial finding him and taking him in

842
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: the ambulance and using the snowblower on the scene, there

843
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: are no tail light pieces found the.

844
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: Cocktail body cams on these cops that arrived the seed.

845
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: I'm guessing not but no, Oh, but there is.

846
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: There's car camp. There's a car cam where you can

847
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: see Karen Reid running around screaming John John John Police

848
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 1: stash camp. Yeah, the police stash camp. There's because she's

849
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: the one who actually finds the body. So apparently she

850
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: wakes up at like four thirty or five or something

851
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: in the morning and he still hasn't come home. So

852
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: she's freaking out. She calls Jen McCabe.

853
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: Why is she freaking out though she knew she thought

854
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: he was sleeping with someone.

855
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: Because he's so I don't know if you will come home.

856
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to freak out.

857
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 2: But if you're accusing me of sleeping with someone and

858
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 2: you're sending me fifty messages that I'm sleeping with someone,

859
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: then I'll come home and it's like, yeah, because I'm

860
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: seeking with someone like that would be your mindset, wouldn't

861
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: be like you still have to come home.

862
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: Well, but he has kids at home. I mean, he

863
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: didn't come home.

864
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 3: The whole thing's weird.

865
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: I don't know he did. So he doesn't come home,

866
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: and she wakes up and she's at his house and

867
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: she realizes that he hasn't come home. She calls Jen McCabe,

868
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: who is in the house that night, and then she

869
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: calls another woman I don't remember her name, and the

870
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: three of them get to a car early in the

871
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: morning and drive around looking for John, and then Karen

872
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: spots his body and the yard and that's what they

873
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: call an ambulance.

874
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: They called where was the body relative to the house

875
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: and where she's supposedly dropped him off?

876
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: If you face the house, it's a big front yard

877
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: and there's a driveway to the right. His body was

878
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: found all the way to the very left of the yard,

879
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: in front of a flagpole, so like as far left

880
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: on the boundary as you could go.

881
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 3: All right, terrible investigations, Well, yeah.

882
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: I mean that's part of the that's part of the

883
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: defense is that not only was the investigation terrible, but

884
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: it does look like a cover up.

885
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot of really yeah, but it sure does

886
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:39,919
Speaker 2: look like one right.

887
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: Initial searches by the Camp Police Department did not yield

888
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: any tail like pieces around the Albert's front lawn. This

889
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: is when they first found the body. However, a subsequent

890
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: investigation led by the Massachusetts State Police uncovered approximately six

891
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: to seven fragments of red and clear plastic in the

892
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: snow near the scene. Later reports and defense arguments have

893
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: to just said that up to forty seven pieces were

894
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: eventually recovered in the snow. So again, I just the

895
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: tail light just bothers me, It bothers me.

896
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 3: Did they say whether the tail light matched the vehicle?

897
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: Yeah?

898
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 2: They did say, okay, so he correct tail light? Okay,

899
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: and then her tail light? Did it if they puzzled,

900
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: pieced it back together, did it match up? Did they

901
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: do anything like that?

902
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 3: Yeah they did.

903
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 1: They also claim, wait, so I did match her tail ight. Yes,

904
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: it's her tail light. The question is is her tail

905
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: light found in the yard because she hit John O'Keefe

906
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: at such a high velocity that her tail light exploded

907
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 1: into forty seven different pieces, or is her tail light

908
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: found in the snow because the police confiscated her vehicle

909
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: saw that there was a little bit of damage to

910
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: her tail light.

911
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then use that as.

912
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: A cover up, busted the tail light and then when

913
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: they went back to search, dropped it into the scene

914
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: and then said, oh, look what I found over here.

915
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: I found pieces of tail light. The problem though, is

916
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: that pieces of the tail light were also found in

917
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: his clothing, like.

918
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 3: Small fragments in his pockets, not in his.

919
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,399
Speaker 1: Pockets, like and it's like his shirt.

920
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: He got it, like he got hit.

921
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: So I don't know if they were smart.

922
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 2: So here's the thing, so you know, there's more evidence,

923
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: it's just more confusing, yes, exactly.

924
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: So it's like, okay, let's say they did break up

925
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: his tail light, because there is there is police footage

926
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: of her car within the sally port at the police department,

927
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: and you could see people walking around in her car.

928
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 1: So there's opportunity, right, there's opportunity for someone to mess

929
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: with her tail light. They have it on video. It

930
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: shows the lead investigator, Michael Proctor, behind the car. They

931
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: also when they when they handed over the videos of

932
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: her car in the car port at the police station,

933
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 1: they inverted the video.

934
00:44:58,760 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 3: She's guilty of something.

935
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: I mean, she was a druns driving and then dropped

936
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: him off drunk and then called and screamed him.

937
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: You're angry because she screams at him.

938
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 2: If you can starr to be killed, Well, yeah, it's.

939
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 3: A trigger for me. I don't know where it comes from.

940
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: During the trial testimony, so they had a crash data

941
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: expert from the Massachusetts State Police. He described information or

942
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: treat from Karen Reid's SUV. According to his analysis, the

943
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: vehicle had been shifted into reverse and reached the speed

944
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: of just over twenty four miles per hour before slowing

945
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: down abruptly with noticeable movement of the steering wheel. This

946
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: expert suggested that this information that they were treated from

947
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: her car could be consistent with a pedestrian being struck

948
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: and placed the event around twelve forty five am. However,

949
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: if you remember the timeline that I gave you, it

950
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: would not have happened around twelve forty five because she

951
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: was already back to John O'Keefe's house by that time

952
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: and had already left out for.

953
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: Leads to more questions, Right, nothing gets answered.

954
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 1: No. Reid's defense seemed challenged his conclusions, questioning his qualifications

955
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: and highlighting that he does not hold an advance certificate

956
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: and crash reconstruction. He also was terrible on the sand.

957
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: It's hard to take someone seriously when they're so nervous

958
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: that they can't answer the questions very well. So the

959
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: defense argues that if O'Keefe had been hit by a

960
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: vehicle moving in reverse at approximately twenty four miles per hour,

961
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: which that's fast, right, twenty four miles per hour backwards, yes, his.

962
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: Box, like in a residential area, you punched the gas

963
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: pedal and that starts to get to twenty four miles

964
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 2: an hour. That in that short period of time, there's

965
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: not like a lot of roadway.

966
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: But again, I don't feel like if she pulled up

967
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: to the house and she's sitting on the side of

968
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: the house and he goes into the house and then

969
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: she drives on.

970
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 2: You know, you know what, it does None of this matters,

971
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 2: you know why, because this all leads to doubt.

972
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 3: We're not you're never going to figure it out with

973
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 3: this much crap and this all we're sitting here. Every

974
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 3: piece of evidence that you brought up, yeah, just leads

975
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 3: to more questions, no conclusions, not even viable conclusions, right,

976
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 3: So it's really just every piece of evidence has a

977
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 3: reasonable doubt.

978
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: Yes, That's why I think this this trial because she's

979
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: she's almost done there, almost does This is her second trial.

980
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: This is her second trial. It should start any day

981
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: now because I think they have sixteen juror seated right now.

982
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: What happened on the first trial, it was a mistrial.

983
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, but do we know do we know how many

984
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: people voted or anything like that.

985
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: So when the jury came back, they basically said, we

986
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,479
Speaker 1: cannot reach a decision, and where it's deadlocked, there's there's

987
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 1: no way we're both sides. I guess it was eight

988
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: thought that she should be charged with vehicular manslaughter and

989
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: four didn't think so. But I guess they said that

990
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: they were so deadlocked in their positions that there was

991
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: no way that anybody was going to, you know, move

992
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: one way or the other. So that's why it was

993
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: a hung jury. The three charges against her were, now

994
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: I don't even remember, vehicular are you listening to.

995
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: Second degree murder, vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated, and driving without

996
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: it with a broken tailing.

997
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 1: No, that was not the third one. The third one

998
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: is leaving the scene.

999
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: Leaving the scene, yea with a broken tailor with.

1000
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: A broken tailing? Yes, Okay, let's get into a little

1001
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: more evidence. It's going to NYU as well. So Jen

1002
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: McCabe was one of the women that was inside the

1003
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 1: house that evening. So apparently they they confiscated Jen McCabe's phone.

1004
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: They did the whole data extraction, and the defense claims

1005
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: that at two I think it was two twenty seven

1006
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: am that Jen McCabe did a search, a Google search

1007
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: how long to die in cold?

1008
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 3: This is a twenty seven I'd like to find out

1009
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: what your Google searches are.

1010
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: I need to get some data extracted from your phone.

1011
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: Life expectancy of fifty year old half Persian, none, the dreams,

1012
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 2: bigels every day.

1013
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 3: That's what your search is going to say.

1014
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: Never google that before ever. So Jen McCabe told the assistant, well, that's.

1015
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 3: The experts tell me what you search.

1016
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: Okay. So Jen McCabe told the assistant District Attorney Adam Lawley,

1017
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: that she left an Internet tab open after finishing her

1018
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: basketball related Google searches earlier on the twenty ninth. I

1019
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: used to always leave my tab open and my kids

1020
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: would yell at me, she added. She further testified that

1021
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 1: she used the same tab later that morning would read

1022
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: frantically asked her to look up hypothermia.

1023
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 3: So here's the was what time was this search?

1024
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 2: This is where again you're gonna say, there's more questions.

1025
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: Yes, because she did. She doesn't dispute that she did

1026
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: google how long to die in the cold, But the

1027
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: problem is the defense.

1028
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: She can't and it was Claire's day, so of course

1029
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 2: she didn't dispute it, right.

1030
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: But there's a dispute as to when she did it.

1031
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: The defense claims that according to what they extracted from

1032
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: her phone, that she made this Google search at two

1033
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: twenty seven in the morning, which would be apparently like

1034
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: after he.

1035
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,439
Speaker 2: Was not not as a normal time that someone would

1036
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: normally search for when how long it takes for someone

1037
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: to die in the snow? Right?

1038
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: Usually that's done after brucast she right.

1039
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: She claims that she made the search at six something

1040
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: in the morning.

1041
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 2: After his body found Like as a result of the scene,

1042
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: she's like, oh my gosh.

1043
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: Right, how long does it take to die in the hole?

1044
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 3: Because that's what I would do if I find someone dead,

1045
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh, let me let me determine.

1046
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: Right, That's the stupidest thing.

1047
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 2: That still doesn't make sense, So someone's dead, Well it man,

1048
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 2: it's probably nerve wrecking and worrisome, and there's cops everywhere,

1049
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 2: and then she's gonna all a sudden start to investigate.

1050
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 3: Whatever it is.

1051
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: She claims that she was looking at up because I

1052
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: guess Karen Reid was because it was chaotic and she

1053
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: was saying that he died of hypothermia, and so she

1054
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: was googling how long did the office.

1055
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: That's not normal behavior to search something that sophisticated or

1056
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: that detailed when there's a crime scene going on.

1057
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: Right, and I don't understand the dies she searched it

1058
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: she did that search as part of the cover up.

1059
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 2: That would be my guess, Like, yeah, but let's say

1060
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 2: he died in the coal Okay, let me hold on.

1061
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 3: Let me google and see how long it takes to

1062
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 3: die in the cold.

1063
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: So you think she did it at two twenty seven

1064
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: am in the morning after something nefarious happened in the

1065
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: house and he'd got in a fight and someone hit

1066
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: him over the head and then he died and the.

1067
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 3: Dog attacked him, and that's a possibility.

1068
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: And you're saying she was like they all had some

1069
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: cover up where they were like, let's drag his body

1070
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: out into the yard and make it look like he

1071
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: died of hypothermia, and she googled how how long to

1072
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: die in the cold? Yeah, that's a possibility, because the

1073
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 1: defense claims that, according to the data that was extracted

1074
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: from her phone, she googled this atuo twenty seven in

1075
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: the morning. I don't understand how there's a discrepancy in

1076
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: the time. Why is it just not clear what time

1077
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: she googled it?

1078
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 2: If we have such yeah, I've been so digital, right, right,

1079
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: If there's.

1080
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 1: Such a digital footprint on everything we do.

1081
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 3: They probably even know where she her phone was at

1082
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: the time that she made.

1083
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: Right, So why is that Why is that up for

1084
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: debate whether she googled it at two twenty seven or

1085
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 1: whether she googled it at six point thirty in the

1086
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: morning after the fact, because clearly, if she googled it,

1087
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: googled it after he was dead.

1088
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 2: Even though it's weird, one expert says at one time

1089
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: and another expert says another time, Yeah, it's stay in

1090
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 2: the same time zone. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe

1091
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 2: one man say Pacific Standard time. No one says, no,

1092
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 2: it's Eastern.

1093
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like you should reach out to Alan

1094
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: Jackson and ask if you can be on the defense team.

1095
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: I could, Yeah, I think you should. All right, so

1096
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: there we go. That's another piece of evidence that it's

1097
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: like again, it's like the same with the tail light.

1098
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: It's like it's like the tail light, but the tail.

1099
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: Light the same results more questions, the more we have

1100
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: the Google search, and it's like, oh, well, if it

1101
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: was at twenty seven, that's pretty shady.

1102
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 1: But if it's at six am after the body's sound,

1103
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: then okay, that kind of makes sense, kind of all right.

1104
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: There's also testimony that people heard Karen Reid say I

1105
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: hit him, I hit him, I hit him.

1106
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 3: Because that's normal behavior for someone that runs over their boyfriend.

1107
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 1: Jennifer McCabe testified that Karen Reid allegedly repeated the phrase

1108
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: I hit him after a paramedic asked what happened to

1109
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: John O'Keeffe. This is after the body is found in

1110
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: and the paramedics are on scene. There's several first responders

1111
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: who also testified and echoed the same claim that they

1112
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: heard her say I hit him. Defense attorney Alan Jackson

1113
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: noted that the statement wasn't recorded in official reports or

1114
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 1: on any scene footage. So again here we go. Again.

1115
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: We have people claiming that she screamed I hit him,

1116
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: I hit him. However, there's no actual footage of her

1117
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: saying it, and there's nothing written in any report. So

1118
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: you're going to tell me if cops are on scene

1119
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: and first responders are on scene and she's saying I

1120
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: hit him, that nobody writes that down. Yeah, but they're

1121
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: going to testify after the.

1122
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: Fact that on the first responders heard like only the

1123
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 2: like the cops didn't.

1124
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 3: Hear it or anything, but the cop.

1125
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if it's a conspiracy, though, the cops should

1126
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: have heard it. But maybe the conspiracy wasn't fully put

1127
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 1: together yet because this is early the next morning. Maybe

1128
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: so far it's only the cops in the house and

1129
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: the people in the house that.

1130
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 3: And there's too much doubt.

1131
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: Then there's the snowplowd driver. A local snowplow driver, Brian Lafran,

1132
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: told the court he did not notice anything unusual on

1133
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: the lawn outside thirty four Fairview Road when he cleared

1134
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: the area in the early hours of January twenty ninth,

1135
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. This is a point that the prosecution

1136
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: and later challenge like.

1137
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 2: I mean, like he could have seen a body. He

1138
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 2: could have seen like the cocktail glass someone.

1139
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: Well, he's saying that I think he went into work

1140
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: to plow that night because there was a blizzard or

1141
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: like two fifteen am. I think that's when he clocked

1142
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 1: in or whatever.

1143
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 3: Nothing.

1144
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: And he's saying after he got his vehicle at two

1145
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: fifteen and he drives down Fairview, it's very well lit

1146
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 1: at that he said, he constantly looks around because he

1147
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: has to observe other cars, people, animals, dogs, Right, it

1148
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 1: makes snowplow. Yeah, he doesn't want to hit anyone, right.

1149
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 2: It's not like a garbage truck where they're just focusing

1150
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: on the bins.

1151
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 3: Like, he has to make sure he's not plowing over people,

1152
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 3: dead people, right, and so crime scenes. Right.

1153
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: So he's testifying that he was very aware that when

1154
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,479
Speaker 1: he plowed the streets and when he went past thirty

1155
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 1: four fair View, that there was no body at that time,

1156
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: which means Karen Reid couldn't have hit him because if

1157
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 1: she hit him, he would have been there already because

1158
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: she hit sometimes.

1159
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 2: Because the argument is she hit him basically when she

1160
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: dropped him off.

1161
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: At twelve twenty five, or whatever. So if she hit him,

1162
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 1: his body would have been in the front.

1163
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 2: Yard, was in the yard and the yard. So here's

1164
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 2: but he doesn't plowing the guard.

1165
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: Nobody drove by the house and the body was in

1166
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: the yard by the street. So he's saying, I drove

1167
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: by this house.

1168
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 3: Not buried in snow or anything.

1169
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe maybe it was covered in snow, but

1170
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: I still feel like you would have noticed a large

1171
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: man in a yard. So he claims he did not

1172
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: see anything like that. Let's hear some other things that

1173
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: I really took away that I thought was really interesting.

1174
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: There was a lot of butt dialing going on that

1175
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: night between the people and the house, and a ledge

1176
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: butt dialing. So Brian Albert owns the home, and again

1177
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: he's a sergeant in the Boston Police Department. Before I

1178
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: get into the butt dialing, there's one other thing I

1179
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: thought was really strange. There was a crime scene in

1180
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: front of Brian albert house at six o'clock in the morning.

1181
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: He is a cop, and he never left his house.

1182
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: He never went out to see what was going on.

1183
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 2: I mean during the investigation. Yeah, like as if you

1184
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 2: had no interest in it.

1185
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm just saying at six o'clock in

1186
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: the morning, it's his house, there's a dead body found

1187
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: on his lawn. There's a bevy of police and ambulances,

1188
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: and Karen Reid's running around screaming, and there's two other

1189
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: women there, and he's he's a cop, he's a police officer,

1190
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: and he's just inside chilling in his house. He never

1191
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: goes outside and asks what's going on? You're gonna tell

1192
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: me that's not odd behavior, that's a very odd behavior.

1193
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a cop, but if there's a

1194
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: dead body of my front lawn, I'm gonna go outside

1195
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: and see what's going on.

1196
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, what are his Google surgeons? That's what I

1197
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 3: want to know. And what is he texting during this time?

1198
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about text said, but Doda, sorry,

1199
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: I wanted to establish them again that the homeowner is

1200
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: a police officer, and that there was a crime scene

1201
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: in his lawn, and that he never went outside and

1202
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: asked what was going on or what was happening. I

1203
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: think that's odd behavior.

1204
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 3: That is very odd behavior.

1205
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: Also, there's some butt dialing going on between him, Brian

1206
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: Albert and Brian Higgins, who is the ATF agent who's

1207
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: the one that had the text exchanged with Karen read

1208
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: about you're hot, I'm hot, We're hot from John, all

1209
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.

1210
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 2: So it is the story that there's phone calls between

1211
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: the parties and they're saying, no, is this accidental dialing?

1212
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: Right, So there's there's a one second call from Brian

1213
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: Albert to Brian Higgins at two twenty two am. Also

1214
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: remember that apparently Jen McCabe is googling how long to

1215
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: Die in the Snow at two twenty.

1216
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: Seven, possibly at two twenty seven, So there's a lot

1217
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,439
Speaker 2: of phone activity at two twenty seven, so they're all awake, right.

1218
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: There's then there is a twenty two second call from

1219
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: Agent Higgins back to Brian Albert.

1220
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 2: I'm guessing there's no text between these parties. It's all

1221
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: butt dialing.

1222
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: Butt dialing, yeh. Then Jed McCabe, the one who did

1223
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: the Google search, placed seven calls to O'Keefe's phone between

1224
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: twelve twenty nine and twelve fifty and seven of those

1225
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: calls are unaccounted for. She claims maybe like she put

1226
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: her phone in her back pocket and her phone just

1227
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 1: kept dialing John O'Keeffe over and over and over.

1228
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 3: Then and then it also did a Google search, yes.

1229
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: By itself, but the defense claims obviously. Here's my thought

1230
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: is if she's calling his phone over and over, is

1231
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: she looking for his phone because something happened in the house.

1232
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 1: They need to get the body into the yard, and

1233
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: maybe they need to locate his phone and put his

1234
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: phone with the body. They can't leave his phone in

1235
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: the house. I don't know. That's just me thinking, what's

1236
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: going on with all this butt dialing? Why is everybody

1237
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: calling each other? Why is she calling John O'Keefe's phone.

1238
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: All right, So anyway, that is a lot of the

1239
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: crazy evidence in this case.

1240
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:02,959
Speaker 3: So it's your verdict.

1241
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: I'm telling you I don't have a verdict.

1242
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 3: And then that's then not guilty.

1243
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say if I were sitting on the

1244
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: jury and I was presented with all this evidence from

1245
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: the first trial, I would say not guilty because to me,

1246
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: there is enough reasonable doubt that I could not convict

1247
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: this woman and send her to the present.

1248
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: So by a legal standard, we agree not guilty by

1249
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 2: all the evidence.

1250
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 3: That we've gone over. Now, what do you really think happened?

1251
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: What do I really think happened? Yeah? I here's what

1252
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to say. The most plausible thing that could

1253
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: have happened that night is that she's drunk. He's drunk.

1254
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: He gets out of the car, he's got a drink

1255
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: in his hand. They're fighting. Maybe she puts it in

1256
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: reverse and she backs over him and she doesn't mean

1257
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:51,919
Speaker 1: to at twenty four miles an hour, at twenty four

1258
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: miles an hour, and then she drives away and doesn't

1259
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: know that she done, and he dies in the snow.

1260
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 1: But anyway, that was a pretty deep dive into Karen Reaid.

1261
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of other issues that we

1262
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: could discuss. If you guys have comments or questions or

1263
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: other things that you would like us to talk about,

1264
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: please feel free to damn me. And again, thanks for listening.

1265
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: We appreciate you.

1266
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 3: Thank you.