1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Bud's Night here for the Taking a Walk podcast, and 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: we're going to go to another classic replay. It was 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: back in August we had a virtual walk with a 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: record producer legend, Jack Douglas. He was the last person 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: to produce John Lennett. He worked for so many years 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: with Aerosmith, with Cheap Trick and others. He is music history. 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: And let's check out this classic replay with Jack Douglas 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: next on Taking a Walk. 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: Well, Jack, how did you first know that music had 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: sunk its meat hooks into you and would never let go? 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 3: I guess when I was about four or five years old. 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 3: You know, my parents they listened to a lot of music. 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 3: They weren't musical themselves, but they listen to them. So 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 3: there was always a ton of music in my house, 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 3: in the Bronx, in our apartment. I was totally into, 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 3: you know, getting like, you know, listening to how much 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: is that Dog in the window? I also loved, like, 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: I mean, these are seventy eight so I'm talking about 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 3: also loved like all of the story books that came out, 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 3: like Bugs Bunny or Stephen and Tyler and I talked 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: about this. We had the same collection of the Tortoise 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 3: and the Hair and Bozo under the Sea. That was 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: a favorite of both of ours. So I was into 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 3: music and storytelling at a very early age. And my 25 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 3: dad worked in a freight yard and once point in 26 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 3: the Bronx, he decided that because they had a nice 27 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 3: console in the living room, they listened to their music. 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: My dad listened to opera and my mom listened to 29 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 3: what was then called race music, basically blues and R 30 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 3: and B and so it was a good contrast. Plus 31 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 3: you know the pop stuff that was on the radio 32 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 3: at that's Big Band and Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra 33 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: and all those folks. But uh, my dad got to 34 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 3: you got to hint that, ah, a train was coming 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 3: in and on the one of the trains coming in 36 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 3: from Chicago was a bunch of electronic equipment, and so 37 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: you know, they Tilford regularly. I mean, that was like 38 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 3: part of the perks of working in a freight yard. 39 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: And he decided that he was going to get me 40 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 3: my own record player so that I stopped putting these 41 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 3: records on their console in the in the living room. 42 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 3: And uh, and so he went in the middle of 43 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: the night and he got uh, he saw web Corps 44 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 3: of Chicago on a box said record he figured said 45 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 3: record players. Who stashed it and it brought it home 46 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 3: for my birthday. I think it was maybe I was 47 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 3: six or seven, somewhere in there, you know, I don't 48 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 3: And anyway, he put it under my bed and then 49 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: came into which we happy birthday, and he said, present 50 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 3: under your bed. I looked under it and I pulled 51 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: it out and unwrapped it, and both my father and 52 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: I were like, what the hell is this? It was 53 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 3: a tape recorder. It was seemed it wasn't a record player. 54 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 3: It was a tape recorder, a web Core, a small one. 55 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: And we got and we read the instruction manual, and 56 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 3: we went down to Canal Street and bought a bunch 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 3: of tape, and I started recording TV themes, which I 58 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 3: really loved off the television. There were all these great themes. 59 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 3: I love Lucy Abbit. I remember every one of them 60 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 3: so well, ab and Gistello and I mean, all these shows, 61 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: but they're still going in my head. Ivory Patrol, drag Net. 62 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: I would record these things and listen to them. I 63 00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: knew I was definitely in the music. Also, also the 64 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: the thing that I noticed that my parents noticed too, 65 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: is that they would take me to see movies that 66 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: were way over my head because I was a kid. 67 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: But you went to the movies on a regular basis 68 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: back in those days. And I could come out of 69 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 3: the theater and sing the the main themes to the 70 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 3: movies the melody lines in the right key as well, 71 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: so they kind of knew something was going on. And 72 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: I would I would record street sounds that hang that 73 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: we lived near, an elevated subway, and I would record 74 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 3: the train gone by feed back and all kinds of weirdness. 75 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: I like to stick the microphone down my mom's old 76 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: vacuum cute and cleaner tube and record those sounds and 77 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 3: then and then listen to them back at the slower speed. 78 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: And my dad once he said to me, I had 79 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 3: hit these funky mono headphones on, you know, for like 80 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 3: a radio. Anyway, he said to me, what do you 81 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 3: listening to? One day and I said, oh, I'm making 82 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: my own music. Dad. He said, oh, let me listen now. 83 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 3: I was listening pretty loud, and he put them on. 84 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 3: It was the vacuum cleaner. He threw it down. He said, 85 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: he said, that's not music. I said it is to me. 86 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: That's music to me. And so he figured, I've got 87 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 3: this music then going on, And maybe a month or 88 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 3: so later, apparently a silvertone series acoustic guitar fell off 89 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: a great car and he gave it to me, along 90 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: with the mel Bay chord book, and he said, now 91 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 3: you can make music. And I learned how to play, 92 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: and so I was in it from real early and 93 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 3: studied music in high school, went to a school that 94 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: specialized in arts and science, study theory and top position, 95 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: and did up playing in rock bands and I was 96 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: off and running. 97 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 2: You actually played in a folk band associated with Bobby 98 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: Kennedy in sixty four. Tell me about that. 99 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 3: I was writing his campaign songs when he was running 100 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 3: for the Senate. I mean, that was just an oddball 101 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: thing I was, you know, I was. I was really young, 102 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: fifteen or sixteen, and I was doing the thing in 103 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: the village, you know, where you bust in the street 104 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 3: or if you could get into a place where you 105 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 3: didn't have to be over eighteen eighteen was the drinking age. 106 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 3: I would get in and play for whatever, you know, 107 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 3: basically traditional folk songs, singing in them. And this guy 108 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 3: came up to me and he said, hey, you write 109 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 3: songs too, and I said yes, and he said, you 110 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: like a job for the summer. Oh by the way, 111 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 3: this particular guy came to a Young Democrats meeting that 112 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: I was playing, was like, you know, at near NYU. 113 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: So I said, how much does it pay, this summer job? 114 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 3: And you said, well, don't pay anything really, but you 115 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 3: get to travel a bit and you'll eat and you'll 116 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 3: have some trumble. Well that was, you know, playing these 117 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 3: rallies for for JFK. I actually ended up playing the 118 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: last one at Madison Square Garden following the Ronets. So 119 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: you know, one of my claims to fame as I 120 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: played at the garden, the Old Garden, and that was 121 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 3: I think that was the Democratic National Convention. That was. 122 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: That was a good start for me, and I learned 123 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 3: a lot about politics and turning traditional folk songs to 124 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: campaign songs. 125 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: You've masteredly figured out the art of collaboration. Did you 126 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: learn that when you went to the Institute of Audio Research? There? 127 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 3: No, no, no, not at all. Collaboration began as soon 128 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 3: as I got my own rock band together. You know, 129 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 3: it was not I made sure that the people were 130 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: in the band were were real contributors. We'll create even 131 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 3: though we were young. These were guys that had most 132 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: of them little over than me, but they all had 133 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 3: good ideas. And and and then I went on the road. 134 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 3: After I came back from Liverpool, I went on the 135 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 3: road for years and played with a ton of people 136 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 3: from the Angels, my boyfriend back and I would play 137 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: either guitar or bass, play with Chuck Berry for a while. 138 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 3: You know, I toured, I was. I was on three 139 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: different made labels, Columbia, Epic, and Bell as a writer 140 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 3: and as an artist. The last label that I was 141 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: on was the was t Neck and my band was 142 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 3: being produced by the Isley Brothers. And after that is 143 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 3: where I made the decision to go to the other 144 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 3: side of the glass. And and and enrolled in the 145 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 3: Institute of Audio Research. And also got a job at 146 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 3: record Plant as the janitor. But they both happened around 147 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 3: the exact same time as my day job. I was 148 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 3: a motorcycle messenger in Manhattan. I was living in the 149 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: East Village, but that paid great money because I would 150 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: I would ride that bike all through winter, and it 151 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 3: meant that the nights I could I could get with 152 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: the band. So it was you know, all I had 153 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: to do was call up and say this factor and 154 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 3: say I'm on. And I had this Norton Commando. In 155 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 3: the winter, I'd have knobby wheels on it so I 156 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 3: could get around on the snow. And then the winter 157 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: paid great money, so it was like really cool. 158 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: But when you became the janitor, you must have had 159 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: your sights on becoming a recording engineer. 160 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: Well I did. In fact, I wanted to be a 161 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: producer as well and a composer. And the funny thing was, 162 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 3: while I was the janitor at night, I was also 163 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 3: a client because I was scoring the original ABC after 164 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 3: School Specials for the producer Danny Wilson and said, Danny 165 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 3: still active, It's great. But I went to work producing 166 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 3: music for his show, which was the It was about 167 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 3: over seven and it was the original ABC after School specials, 168 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 3: And so I at night I would be a client 169 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 3: and in the daytime I was the janitor, but I 170 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 3: was you know, I would beg other engineers if I 171 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 3: could just sit in on their sessions so I could 172 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: learn between and I worked my way up from general worker. Actually, 173 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 3: after a janitor you're just cart and stuff around and 174 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 3: record plant also ran a school for us, you know, 175 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 3: guys that were on the way up. So I learned 176 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 3: a lot there and I became a state librarian and 177 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: I went into the editing booth. I was an editor, 178 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 3: then I was an assistant engineer, doing tons of stuff, 179 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 3: you know, working with great rock bands that were coming 180 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 3: to a record plan. And also early mornings, I was 181 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: doing jingles for Forward Airlines and all those big commercials 182 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 3: when you had the big orchestra dates and rhythm decades. 183 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 3: And I was also doing artists demos. So I did 184 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: all Billy Joel's demos for him to get his deal. 185 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: I did Patty the Bell demos, and these are four track, 186 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: so they would want to come in and listen to 187 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 3: what it sounded like before they went in and invested 188 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: in the big rooms to do it. And that's a 189 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 3: great learning experience when you have to record all the 190 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 3: stuff four track, especially if you've got a big rhythm 191 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: section that's you know. I was in a hurry. It 192 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 3: didn't take me long. Honestly. They would let me at 193 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: midnight eight. They would let me come in and record 194 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: wherever I wanted for free, you know, like local bands. 195 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 3: And I really made my bones by bringing in groups 196 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: and recording them and learning how to do it right. 197 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 2: What a fascinating time it must have been in that area. 198 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 4: It's still a fascinating area that whole the whole scene. 199 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 4: And since this podcast is called taking a Walk, I 200 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 4: have to ask you, even though we're virtual, so did 201 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: you ever get sort of in a creative block where 202 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 4: things were kind of jammed up? And would you just 203 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 4: go for a walk in the village to free your mind? 204 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 3: No? No, I didn't have time for that at all. 205 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: Uh No. If I had a block, I had to 206 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 3: work it out while I was at behind the board. 207 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 3: But I mean I made some terrible blunders. Uh uh. 208 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: I was recording uh Paddy La Belle's demos, and the 209 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 3: guy put spill these old boards, especially the four drack 210 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 3: boards were all tubes and the giant transformers and the 211 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 3: bass player, and I thought, man, I'm doing this. This 212 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: demo sounds so good because there's a full rhythm section 213 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 3: and and her and you know I and I said, 214 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 3: and you have to do everything live. You have to 215 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: do your your reverb or your depression. Everything has to 216 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: be done on the fly right away because there's no 217 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: going back to it. And so I'm doing this and 218 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 3: I'm thinking, wow, I'll I'm really good here, and the 219 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: bass player came in. I couldn't wait to play it 220 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 3: for Patty because I thought she's not even going to 221 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 3: have to do a master this. And the bass player 222 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: came around behind me and he put his bier next 223 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 3: to me. I didn't see it. And they're remote for 224 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 3: the tape machine. It was in between me and the 225 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: remote for the tape machine, and I want to hit 226 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 3: the remote and hit the beer, and the beater went 227 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 3: into the transformers and flame shot out and literally I 228 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: burned the board down. The slaves were coming out of 229 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 3: the faders. I destroyed the room that the board was gone, 230 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 3: and I got fired immediately. The owner, Chris Stone came, 231 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 3: he said, you're fired. Patty LaBelle went to him and 232 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: said it wasn't his fault at all. And Roy Sakala, 233 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 3: who was the chief engineer, quite famous guy, he was 234 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 3: my mentor. He said to Christine, he said, why don't 235 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 3: we listen to the tape, And because the tape still there, 236 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: he said, lit's listen to the tape because if it's good, 237 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: he'll make more money for the studio than that board 238 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 3: lost which was on its way out anyway. They listened 239 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 3: to the tape and the next day Chris Stone called 240 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 3: me up. I was like, oh, my career is over. 241 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to do this. He's terrible. Chris Stone called 242 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: me up and said, well, we decided to give you 243 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 3: another chance and and he said, but we're going to 244 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 3: give you a pay cut from sixty five dollars a 245 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 3: week to sixty dollars a week. I said, fine, So 246 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: I got but you know, you trip along the way 247 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 3: for sure, you know, but yeah, I never had time 248 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 3: to go. I mean, for me, I was on the 249 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 3: course that I wanted to be on. I was learning 250 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: by working as an assistant, working on projects that had 251 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: either lousy producers or really good ones, and I would 252 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: be taking no out on this works, this doesn't work. 253 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 3: I was an assistant on American Pie, and I watched 254 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: how all these bits and pieces of that song were 255 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 3: edited together to make that masterpiece. Now that that works. 256 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 3: So I mean I worked with a lot of a 257 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 3: lot of producers along the way as both an assistant 258 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 3: and then as an engineer, which I became like the 259 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 3: rock guy, probably because I played music for so long. 260 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 3: But those notes really helped me understanding what worked with 261 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 3: an artist and what didn't. 262 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 2: So as you were in that recording, you know, engineer 263 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: mode there, wanted to get your reaction to some folks 264 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: that you worked with that were pretty amazing. I'm going 265 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: to start with Miles Davis. 266 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 3: Well, I was. I mean, first of all, he was 267 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 3: great studio not not at all. Be treated everybody great, 268 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 3: the fellow musicians, the crew. Mostly I assisted on those sessions. 269 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 3: I assisted on Miles, I assisted on Nina Salon because 270 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 3: Jamesina was the jazz guy, and Jay would always bring 271 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 3: me in to do these jazz states, Mike McNary, Wrecker Brothers, 272 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: and so I got to you know, I be working 273 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 3: hand in hand with him on these great sessions. But 274 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 3: I was, you know, a giant Miles fan and John 275 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: Coltry fan, and and I was, you know, I didn't 276 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 3: know what to expect. You know, you always hear Miles 277 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: turns his back on you. Miles is Miles was the 278 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 3: sweetish guy in the studio because he understood that in 279 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 3: the studio probably unlike a live performance, that is a 280 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 3: collaborative situation and the crew is important. So he was 281 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 3: just really sweet and he loved Jamesina because they wore 282 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 3: the same shoe styles. And Jay would always come in 283 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 3: with like a really cool pair of shoes. And we 284 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 3: also say Jay, hey, j can't you do his voice? 285 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 3: But you would ask Jay to pick him up a 286 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 3: pair of those shoes when he was at the store, 287 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 3: and j would deliver them over to the is Brownstone 288 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 3: on the West Side near where Jay lived. He was great. 289 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 3: Nina Simone scared me working with Nina. I would be, 290 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 3: you know, putting the setting up mic and interviewed because 291 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: she'd be singing and playing piano and she'd just look 292 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 3: at me like, are you sure that's in the right place, 293 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 3: and she'd give me looking. I think it is the 294 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 3: fun stuff. Who else? James Gang again, I was assisting 295 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 3: on James Gang's sessions. They were brothers that brought the 296 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 3: mother in one time. I guess they were from Indiana 297 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 3: or something like that. The funny thing is, you know, 298 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 3: I recently, I've become really good friends with, well in 299 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 3: the last few years, with Joe Walsh. When I'm out 300 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 3: in la I see him quite often because he works 301 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: with Ringo and I see Ringo Kuile. I got to 302 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 3: talking to him and I said, you read me that 303 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 3: album had too you were doing that, recorded James Gang 304 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 3: and he said sure, I said I was. I was 305 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: the other engineer and he said, you gotta be shoitting me. 306 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: Well that's crazy. Yeah, I said, yeah, that was me, 307 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 3: And that was Bill Simsick was engineer producer. I guess 308 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 3: Bill went on to work with the Eagles. In fact, 309 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 3: he invited me down to Miami to listen to when 310 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 3: he had this hotel that he converted in Coconut Grove 311 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 3: into a studio. He he invited me down to listen 312 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 3: to what he was doing. Yeah, that was fun. And 313 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 3: those guys were very cool and very professional in the studio. 314 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 2: Another one that I love to mention is the one 315 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: and only Alice Cooper. 316 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: Well, uh that that was pretty cool because I loved 317 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 3: working with Bob Ezram. Bob was. He was a funny caddy. 318 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 3: He was and he is extremely talented musician and the 319 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 3: arranger writer. And he was a guy that I learned 320 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 3: both pro and con from because he had a he had. 321 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 3: His talent was so supreme that his ideas were always good. 322 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 3: But there was never a lot of room for the 323 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: for the band, in particular Alice's band, their ideas. It 324 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: was like Bob laid down the law and that's how 325 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 3: you did it, and they were used to that working 326 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 3: with the so so I don't think I can have 327 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 3: ever do it that way. But and you know, I'm 328 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: not as talented as Bob, but I can work around it. 329 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 3: But Alice sessions were great, and I worked on Schools 330 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 3: Out and Billion Doll Babies with Bob, and then after 331 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 3: doing the Dolls album, the first album, Bob came to 332 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 3: me and he said, you know you're because Todd didn't 333 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 3: show up very much and I had a good relationship band. 334 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 3: We would we would keep that going. And Bob told me, 335 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 3: he said, you know you're you're producing now as well 336 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 3: you should be producing. And so I'm going to give 337 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: you the next Alice album to produce because it's the 338 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 3: it's the last group album and then Alice is going 339 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 3: solo with me, and he said, I don't like funerals, 340 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: and so you're going to produce it, which which was 341 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 3: Muscle of Love. They put Jack Richardson in there with 342 00:21:58,720 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: me too to keep an eye on me. 343 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 2: And what would bring your first encounter with Cheap Trip. 344 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 3: That was I had relatives in Waukeshaw, Wisconsin. My brother 345 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: he said to me, you got to come see this 346 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 3: band that's playing at the Sunset Bowl Bowling Alley in Waukershaws. 347 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 3: They're really good. And I thought, god, my brother, in 348 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 3: most taste of music, it's just terrible. But but the 349 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 3: hell I got nothing else too. So we went to 350 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 3: the bowling alley and Cheap Trick was playing and they 351 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 3: were I mean, they knocked they knocked me out. They 352 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 3: were incredible. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. And 353 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 3: I had known about them because they were already making noise, 354 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 3: not signed, but already making noise around the Midwest. I 355 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 3: told them that right then and there. I said, I 356 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 3: think I can get you a deal and I'd like 357 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 3: to produce you, and they said okay. So the next 358 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: day I called up my Epic Records and said, get 359 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 3: out here and see this band, and if you don't 360 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 3: sign them, I'll take them to RCA. And because my 361 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 3: reputation with CBS record which was Columbia and Epic, because 362 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: my relationship was good good with him, he came out 363 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: and they were signed shortly after the Epic Records, and 364 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: shortly after that, I was out there. We did a 365 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: quick pre production. Mostly they had so much material it 366 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 3: was crazy insane the material. It was just a matter 367 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 3: of making sure it was recordable, edited a little bit 368 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 3: here and there. You know. It wasn't like I had 369 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 3: to do any co writing with them at all. They 370 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 3: were really self contained in that department. I didn't do 371 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 3: very much arranging except maybe on the overdubs, things like Mandocello. 372 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 3: I mean, we knocked off I think thirty basic tracks 373 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: in two weeks when we went into records, and then, 374 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 3: you know, I said, well, these songs will put up 375 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 3: on the back burner because I don't think they quite 376 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: fit on this album, which the first album was a 377 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 3: lot of social and political statements. I thought, we're going 378 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 3: to go to college radio with this, and we'll put 379 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: these other ones on the back burner. All the Gogo girls, 380 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 3: I want You to Want Me Surrender, We'll put those 381 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 3: on the back burner for the next record. Unfortunately, the 382 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 3: next record, I was doing Aerosmith's to Draw the Line. 383 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 3: That took a year to do, so I never got 384 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: to link to the second album which I had, and 385 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 3: I didn't get back to them until Budicot. That proved 386 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 3: to be pretty good, fifteen million records and still selling. 387 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 2: Tell me about your encounter with the Who. 388 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 3: Well, the Who were coming in to do I think 389 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 3: it was called the Lighthouse Project something like that, and 390 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: it wasn't Who's Next, but it was the material that 391 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 3: was going to make Cup Boo's Next. And so they 392 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 3: wanted to record all this material, and the they said, 393 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 3: give us your chief engineer. They were pegging around the 394 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 3: Northeast at the time. We give us your chief engineer. 395 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: And so the chief engineer was a guy named Jack Adams, 396 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 3: and he was not a rock engineer, but he was 397 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 3: the chief engineer. He was an R and B guy, 398 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 3: and he didn't like rock music very much at all, 399 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 3: and so knowing that, they put me on the date 400 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 3: to assist him. And so I, you know, the equipment 401 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: came into the into the room, he all teeth, drum, 402 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 3: and I set up like I was setting up for 403 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 3: a big rock day like Mountain, one of those kind 404 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: of dates where it's going to be heavy and loud 405 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 3: and I need to be really miked, all the tom 406 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 3: toms stuff that Jack normally would do, because an R 407 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 3: and B session was very different. And then the band 408 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 3: came in and I said, let's Jack Adams wasn't there yet, 409 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,719 Speaker 3: and I said, you guys want to roll something so 410 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 3: I could get the room totally set up, but I'm sure, 411 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 3: and so I rolled tape and they started jamming, and 412 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 3: they started jamming on Baby Don't Do It, Don't Break 413 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 3: Your Heart? And I said to hey, do you mind 414 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 3: if I get a friend of mine to come in 415 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 3: and jam with you guys. It was Leslie West, who 416 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: was in the next room, and so they said, no, 417 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 3: we love Leslie. So I went and I got Leslie 418 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 3: and he came in and he jammed. I think that 419 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 3: particular jam session is available Leslie West and the Who 420 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 3: playing well Baby Don't Do It recorded, it sounded really good, 421 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 3: sounded like the Who. I got it all tuned down up. 422 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 3: Jack came into the room. Finally. I love Jack. He 423 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 3: was a fabulous R and B guy and later DISTO too. 424 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 3: He did. But he came into the room and he said, oh, 425 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 3: what is this? I said, you know, it's them who? 426 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 3: He's like? Who? 427 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 2: What? 428 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 3: Who? I'm like the last album Jack was tall me. 429 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 3: It was unbelievable huge. Uh, it wasn't into it that much. 430 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: They came into the into the booth, and they said, 431 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 3: let's hear that back what we just jammed, so we 432 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 3: know what it sounds like. So I got to spun 433 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 3: the tape backwards and and they they listened to it. 434 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 3: And Pete went over and right now, big Westlake monitors 435 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 3: in that room, you know, five hundred watts on each side. 436 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 3: Here fabulous sound. He cranked the monitors right up loud, 437 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 3: and I could see that Jack was very Jack, I'm 438 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 3: very uncomfortable with that, and he was like, oh my god. 439 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 3: And then they went back out in the room and 440 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 3: Deck said to me, I can't I can't do this. 441 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 3: Kit Lambert was producing. It was a crazy maniac, but 442 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 3: I love I loved watching him. I learned a lot. 443 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 3: He would conduct the band. I was an orchestra as 444 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 3: his father was a very famous conductor in England. So 445 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 3: Jack said to me, I can't do this. This is 446 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 3: this is awful. There's no there's no soul. So I said, well, 447 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: you know, you get through it, Jack, don't worry. He said, no, 448 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 3: I'm not going to get through it at all. You're 449 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 3: going to get through it, huh he said, yeah, he goes. 450 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 3: I want you to go into the production room, which 451 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 3: was basically in the control there was a wall. SEP 452 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 3: bring it, he said, call me up on the phone 453 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 3: at the board and tell me something terrible has happened. 454 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 3: I will have to leave. I said, I, why don't 455 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 3: you just tell them something? He goes, no, I need 456 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 3: to react to this. So Jack Adams lived on a 457 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: houseboat and the seventy ninth Street Pier, Hudson River. So 458 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 3: I called them up and I was really quiet. She 459 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: could hear me in the room, if you care to listen. 460 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 3: And the phone rang and Jack picked up. I said, Jack. 461 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 3: He said, yeah, so I have something really terrible to 462 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: tell you. 463 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: Now. 464 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: Pete Townsend was still in the room, and Jack Kin 465 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 3: was obvious and he was loud, and he went something terrible. 466 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 3: What have it now? Pete and teeth they're looking at him. 467 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 3: And I say to Jack, your houseboat's on fire and 468 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 3: it's sinking in the Hudson River. And then he repeated that, well, 469 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 3: houseboats on fire, and it's thinking that. And then he 470 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: kind of put in like a quotations, I lived in 471 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: my houseboat and then he said my dog. He didn't 472 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 3: have a dog, but he threw that in. For a 473 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 3: little extra stuff. I have to go, the other engineer 474 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: will take over. I took the reins. The first song 475 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: that we recorded was Don't Get Full Again, live vocals, 476 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 3: and it was hair raising, and we recorded on ten tracks. 477 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 3: At some point the front office heard that I was 478 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 3: in charge, and they were a little worried. They sent 479 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 3: somebody down to keep an eye on me, and they 480 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 3: set me in an assistant and it was good. Exactly 481 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 3: got to be really good friends with those guys. And 482 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 3: after the gigs they would see This would be like 483 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 3: one o'clock in the morning, and they go, well, now 484 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 3: we're going to go out and ask some fun Okay, 485 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 3: your goal with us, kid, Okay. So I would go 486 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: out with them and we would meet at the Navarro Hotel, 487 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 3: which was on Central Park South Long Tell boutique hotel. 488 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 3: They had the whole ninth floor, which was maybe eight rooms. 489 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: This way it kept them away from regular clients, and 490 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 3: Keith and Pete had the two front suites which faced 491 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 3: Central Park beautiful and on the ninth floor. Now this 492 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 3: is a building that had high ceilings, and so I 493 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 3: would go there and we would meet in Pete's room 494 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 3: and then go out just some after hours place or 495 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 3: just they knew all these spots. I was in New Yorker. 496 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 3: I had no idea these places existed. You know, they 497 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 3: get a couple of limos and off we'd go. But anyway, 498 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 3: every night I would go up there He's I mean, 499 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 3: everybody came through the door into into Pete's sweet But 500 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,719 Speaker 3: Keith would open the window on his suite and crawl 501 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 3: across a ledge outside the building and then open up 502 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 3: Pete's window and climb in. It's like nine very high floors. 503 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 3: And no one thought that was unusual except me. Everywhere 504 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 3: was hey, Keith, what are we doing to And I'd 505 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 3: be like, oh my god, that's a little bit I saw. 506 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 3: I ran into Pete at Si R at a rehearsal 507 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 3: just a few years ago. He was coming to a 508 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 3: meeting and he had a girl with him that he 509 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 3: was producing, and I ran it too. He said, hey, Pete, 510 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 3: I mean it's been years. I said, remember me and Jack. 511 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 3: He goes, see Jack Duglas, Oh yeah, wow, spent a 512 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 3: lifetime since I've seen you, and I said yeah yeah. 513 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 3: And he introduced me to the artist that he was with, 514 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 3: and he introduced me, he said a thousand years ago. 515 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 3: He said to her, we worked with Jack and made 516 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 3: him famous. Thanks, thanks Pete. 517 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: Thanks, It's true, that's outstanding. 518 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 519 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: So then it's nineteen sixty excuse me, nineteen seventy one. 520 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 3: Well, sixty nine is when I went to record Plants, 521 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 3: the very first project, interestingly enough, that I worked on 522 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 3: as a general worker because we had the move tapes 523 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 3: was wooking stock. Can you imagine? So the van would 524 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 3: pull up with the tapes from the show that we 525 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 3: recorded live, and then I would bring him to the 526 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 3: various studios where the artists were fixing the tapes. You 527 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 3: ran into Hendrix and Rosby, still the Nashter all in there. 528 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 3: It's amazing. I'm like, wow, I'm in the right place here. 529 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: But yeah, go ahead, Well well excuse me. 530 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: Seventy one you would engineer. 531 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 3: Imagine what are the engineers? 532 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? 533 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 4: Tell me about your first of a lifetime encounter with John. 534 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 3: You know, first of all, I was an incredible Beatles 535 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 3: fand had been for years, I mean just sord a fanatic, 536 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 3: really loved them. I even went to Liverpool in sixty 537 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 3: five on a tramp steamer and bought Rubber Soul the 538 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,839 Speaker 3: week it came out that winter November December. Bought it 539 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 3: in Liverpool. I got deported for a lot of reasons 540 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 3: for playing in bands without a work permit, from escaping 541 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 3: from a ship, blah blah blah. I made a lot 542 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 3: of noise, and I was in all the newspapers and 543 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 3: even in the mirror in London. I was stories about 544 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 3: my adventures. But I was on the front pages of 545 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 3: the Liverpool newspaction, in particular the Liverpool Echo, which is 546 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 3: the big newspaper in Liverpool. And I got deported and 547 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 3: changed mind you. Really, they wouldn't take any chances that 548 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 3: I was kind of escaping. And that was in sixty five. 549 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 3: So now go forward so many years and I met 550 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: record plant working and John is down the hall in 551 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 3: another room with everybody doing overdubs, and you know, working 552 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 3: on Imagine. He'd come over from England where they'd done 553 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 3: a bunch of tracks and now they were doing some 554 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 3: more tracks and doing all the overdubs. My job, because 555 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 3: I was a good editor, was down all in another 556 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 3: small room, was to edit these some of these tracks 557 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 3: and prepare them for more for multi track, because there 558 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 3: were run eight tracks and they wanted to go to 559 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 3: sixteen track. There were handwritten notes from John, you know, 560 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 3: don't edit the masters. Make sure you edit the copies 561 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 3: that you're going to make when you're going to edit here. Anyway, 562 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 3: I was hearing most of the album before anybody else 563 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 3: was hearing because I was editing and transferred. About four 564 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: or five days into this whole project, the door opened, 565 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 3: I said. John comes into the room, and nearly peed 566 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 3: myself because I didn't think I would be having contact 567 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 3: with him. I start, I'm good enough having this gig 568 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 3: as an editor, and he sits down. He says, okay, 569 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 3: if I hang out in here, I'm just looking for 570 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 3: a place that's not so noisy. I knew he was, 571 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 3: and I figured he was trying to get away from Hill, 572 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 3: a terrible reputation spector, and so he sat on a 573 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 3: couch on the other side of a console, so I 574 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 3: only could see his feet up on the glass. And 575 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 3: so you're em and I said, I'm editing your stuff, 576 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 3: and he was like, yeah, okay, thanks, You're doing a 577 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 3: great job. He just kind of blew me off and 578 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 3: he sat there and smoked. And then about five minutes 579 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 3: into this process of me working quietly, I said to him, 580 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 3: I U pent to Liverpool, and his head popped up 581 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 3: and he said really. He said, where are you from? 582 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 3: I said, I'm born and raised in New York City, 583 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 3: So why would you want to go to Liverpool? Everybody 584 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 3: there wants to come here, putting me and and you 585 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 3: know it's it's not a great place, not a tourist place. 586 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 3: I said, well, I was a musician, and you know, 587 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 3: I really wanted to swim into Mersey. I wanted to 588 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 3: know everything about the music scene there, and which was 589 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 3: really cool because I got to hang in the original cavern, 590 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 3: which was amazing thing do and back then. So he 591 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 3: looked at me and he said, well, how did that 592 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 3: work out? And I said, well, good and bad. I 593 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 3: said bad, I got deported, but good. I made a 594 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 3: lot of noise before I did. And he looked at 595 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 3: me and he said, were you one of the crazy 596 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 3: ankset was the only newspapers And I said, yeah, that 597 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 3: was me because it was me and my buddy I 598 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 3: talked into going with me. Get another guitar player. He said, 599 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 3: you know, we looked at the pictures of these two 600 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 3: guys on the front page of our newspaper that we 601 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 3: put out an album that should have been just us. 602 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 3: All over the front page there's two Yanks making all 603 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 3: the snoies in Liverpool and I said, yeah, that was me. 604 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 3: And he said and in one of the pictures that 605 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 3: was on the front page as my guitar less tall custom. 606 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 3: He said to me, right well, he remembered that that 607 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 3: made the impression on them. He said to me, you 608 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 3: still have that less Paul's sitting all it's a long 609 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 3: gone he said. I can't believe that. All the places 610 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 3: I walk into and there's this guy I'm meeting now 611 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: that was someone that you know we last about, you know, 612 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 3: in Liverpool, did all this stuff. He said, what are 613 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 3: you doing? I said, like I said, I'm editing your 614 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 3: stuff because you're an engineer. I said, yes, it goes okay, 615 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 3: you're on the project, said, Yoko is going to know 616 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 3: that there's some deeper meaning meeting you. You know. After 617 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 3: a session or two, he said, dude, where do you live? 618 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 3: And I told him in the village. He said, we 619 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 3: do too. We're on Bank Street. We give you a 620 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 3: ride home and then one time on the way down 621 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 3: to the village, you see, oh, I played where we 622 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 3: can get a late bitee eat? And that's sure. No 623 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 3: million places where I can get you in a back door, 624 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 3: and suddenly he asked, like for my phone number. He 625 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 3: called me up. He said, I was I have to 626 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 3: go to this party and there's going to be all 627 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 3: these people there. It was Abbie Hoffman and that Cruius. 628 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 3: Just come with me because I don't really know them. 629 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 3: You can watch my back started hanging with him and 630 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 3: we became friends, and then he said to me, listen, 631 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 3: I want you to do these yoga records. Okay. So 632 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 3: I met with Yoko and she said, what makes you 633 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 3: think you can do my records? And I said to her, 634 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 3: because I was really an av a guard John Cage fan, 635 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 3: all these ourguard jazz guys. And then I said to her, 636 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 3: because I don't care if when you play the piano 637 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 3: you're inside it or outside of it. And she said 638 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 3: that's good. That's good. And so I did just all 639 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 3: these records with her. Sometimes John would be producing them, 640 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 3: where he'd be sitting next to me while did. It 641 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 3: was a good run with her, and because of that trust, 642 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 3: that's why I ended up producing. They both trusted me. 643 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 3: While while I was doing the Muscle of Love album, 644 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 3: we were out in La, which he told me to do. 645 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 3: He said, come out to La you're a producer, can 646 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 3: do it or wherever you want. And Warners is in 647 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 3: La So bring it out there. I'm out there. It 648 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 3: was his lost weekend, and so I became one of 649 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 3: the original Hollywood fampires, a host doing that Nalys too. 650 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 3: You know, frequently I drove the getaway car. That was 651 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 3: my gig get him out of trouble. Interesting, and I 652 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 3: had a long, long relationship with him. I miss him, 653 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 3: and I think the world is would be a different 654 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 3: place that he lived. 655 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 2: If you could describe his creative process, what would it be. 656 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 3: He worked on songs for months, if not years. He 657 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 3: had a germ, he would work on it. And yeah, 658 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 3: when you see that film he brought, he brought the 659 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 3: Jackson film. He brought stuff to the studio to work on. 660 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 3: Here's something I had. He always was preparing, he was 661 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 3: always writing. I mean some of the songs on Double 662 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 3: Fantasy were years old that he had demoed numbers of times, 663 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 3: and so he was well prepared. The thing that he 664 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 3: had no patience for lollygagging in the studio, you know, 665 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 3: which is why I hate Phil So would want, you know, 666 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:46,720 Speaker 3: fifty tapes. Where whereas for me and I would always 667 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 3: have to do live vocals frequently within the first five takes, 668 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 3: you had it, and he knew it, and I knew it, 669 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 3: and the musicians knew it as well. It wasn't and 670 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 3: I was always a step ahead of the whole time 671 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,839 Speaker 3: we were working, and so he loved me. He liked to 672 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 3: be you know, somebody was always prepared for him to 673 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 3: do what he wanted to do. I think that's why 674 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 3: we got along, you know it. I in the last 675 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 3: few years before he passed away, I became very good 676 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 3: friends with Jeff Emeric and he would be over my 677 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 3: house for dinner. We would do mixes together. We had 678 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 3: a lot of time when we talked about John and 679 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 3: he said to me, I wish I knew the John 680 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,280 Speaker 3: that you talk about, because he knew the angry John. 681 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 3: Apparently he could get very angry and the Beatle I 682 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 3: know that alcohol didn't was was not good for John 683 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 3: at all. Okay, you get angry, and I saw, well 684 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 3: we were in California, but he was just he was 685 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,399 Speaker 3: just amazing. Not whole summer we were working record and 686 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,760 Speaker 3: then later into the fall, while we were doing Walking 687 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 3: into Nice. 688 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 2: You ran into these guys from Boston in seventy four 689 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,760 Speaker 2: named aarro Smith. How many how many years were shaved 690 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 2: off of your life from beginning that ride with them? 691 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 3: Ten years? Ten years were shaved off my life, not 692 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 3: those years, but later years. I mean I was thirty 693 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 3: years sober. But there's a there's a lot of you know, 694 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 3: as as their drug got used, you just got worse. 695 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 3: I mean I was always like a street guy, you know, 696 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 3: I thought to keep this session together when it was over. 697 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 3: When the session was over, I spoke your joint when 698 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 3: it was over. But yeah, as their druggings got worse, 699 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 3: they exposed me to a few things that later in 700 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 3: my life became a problem. And then so yeah, I 701 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 3: lost some time, but none of it while I was working. 702 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 2: Now, how often did crisis management enter into your job 703 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 2: description working with them? 704 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 3: It depends on what you call crisis management, you know, 705 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 3: get your wings toys in the attic Rocks. They were 706 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 3: all really creative periods for the band, and and they 707 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 3: welcomed my input so that I was like a member 708 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 3: of the band. We did months sometimes a pre production 709 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 3: and and it wasn't till we're doing draw the Line 710 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 3: that it became became a problem because they would stay 711 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 3: in there. We were at a and what had been 712 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 3: a nunnery upstate New York, Westchester County actually, and they 713 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 3: all had their own rooms, and frequently some of them 714 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 3: wouldn't come out of their rooms three four days. That 715 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 3: was the That was the crisis. As far as working 716 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 3: with them, having fights, not so much. No, you know, 717 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 3: I've always been the good politician. You know, my saying 718 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 3: is listen to the band first. First of all, you know, 719 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 3: my job is to make a band's dreams coumptric, you know, 720 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 3: not mine. To make the band sound like the band, 721 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 3: not sound like a production stamp of Jack Douglas. And 722 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 3: you know, they understood that. That's the way it was. 723 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 3: And so although we didn't have to talk about it, 724 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 3: that's the way I approached all of that stuff. We 725 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 3: worked hard together and and we always well, like you know, 726 00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 3: I mean, sure Stephen would come in and say I 727 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 3: could see that better. I was saying, I don't know 728 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 3: if you can, but if he said he could sing 729 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 3: it better, I went. 730 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 2: You co wrote Kings and Queens, didn't you? 731 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 3: Yes? Did you see that's at the point where the 732 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 3: band wasn't writing. I mean I contributed a lot as 733 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 3: a writer previous to that, but I always thought that's 734 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 3: my job as a producer, you know, since they're the band. 735 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 3: You know, people told me many years later that was 736 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 3: a big mistake, but I don't. I don't. I don't 737 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 3: think so, because now every producer is a writer, you know. 738 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,799 Speaker 3: It's like that's where you get your publishing blah blah 739 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 3: blah blah. Uh. But at that point I had to 740 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 3: start writing because they were were losing their productivity. I 741 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 3: like Kings. 742 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 2: I think it's Oh I love that one. I love 743 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,280 Speaker 2: that too. That's a great one, but so many great ones. 744 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 2: You know. Being in Boston and for so long and 745 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 2: part of the Boston scene, you got a big fan 746 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 2: of Aerosmith right here. 747 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,760 Speaker 3: Oh great, Yeah, I'm still a big fan. I'm uh. 748 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 3: The peace Out tour should be interesting. And when they 749 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 3: were doing Vegas, the residency in Vegas, my son was 750 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 3: in the bands productionionist. My son, Colin is a Latin 751 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:28,520 Speaker 3: jazz guy, a couple of Grammy nominations as as a 752 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 3: jazz artists. But he liked to Joe liked to work 753 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 3: with him on his solo stuff, and so when they 754 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 3: did this residency, he wanted to empty play all the 755 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,800 Speaker 3: tambourines and coggans and bells, so that's what he was doing. 756 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:48,280 Speaker 3: Could sing too. 757 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,760 Speaker 2: So what are you working on now, Jack? 758 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 3: Uh? She's so because I have a label. 759 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh. Well. 760 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,800 Speaker 3: The first to act that we signed was the Detroit 761 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 3: Youth Choir and they, of course were huge hits on 762 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 3: America's Got Talent twice there were huge hits. And so 763 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 3: I produced that record in Detroit called rock Spell Detroit 764 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,240 Speaker 3: Rock Band with its youth choir singing classic ar and Beast. 765 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 3: It's available on our site. And then the next artist 766 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 3: I signed, Robin Taylor Xander, was Robin Xander's son. That 767 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,800 Speaker 3: an album is out now. We just dropped acoustic and 768 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 3: acoustic version of High and Low, although the single version 769 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 3: of it is already out on the whole album is 770 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,800 Speaker 3: available on every platform. Detroit Youth Choir won us a 771 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 3: gospel about two weeks ago, won us a gospel version 772 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,839 Speaker 3: of the Grammys for the record that we did, so 773 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,360 Speaker 3: that's pretty cool. And last week I was in Los 774 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:04,799 Speaker 3: Angeles talking with Disney because Disney has picked up the 775 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:09,439 Speaker 3: Detroit Youth Choir for a miniseries called Choir. And so 776 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,520 Speaker 3: we have the record and they have the miniseries that 777 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,920 Speaker 3: could be a good combination. I've been doing a lot 778 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:23,840 Speaker 3: of film scores. I've got on personality Crists. I just 779 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:29,560 Speaker 3: worked with Maurice Grssi and Ron Howard Personality Crisis One 780 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:34,319 Speaker 3: Night Only, which is on Showtime. Now. I've got two 781 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 3: films going into the festival circuit that I composed the 782 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:45,279 Speaker 3: music for. One's called The Trust in Love Contemporary Ron 783 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,400 Speaker 3: Tom takes place in Malibu. And the other one is 784 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 3: The Carol Dotis Story, which is the documentary about the 785 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 3: first topless dancer in San Francisco, which just cool. I 786 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 3: just last night watched the completed film score and it's 787 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 3: pretty cool. It's amazing. And which did you know what 788 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 3: was happening in San Francisco from nineteen sixty four through 789 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,680 Speaker 3: the early seventies, Well a lot, it's amazing. And then 790 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 3: I've got an artist named Ellie Low that is I'll 791 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,680 Speaker 3: be in the studio in Los Angeles Leteur this coming 792 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,360 Speaker 3: month producing her. She's really amazing. She's out of Atlanta. 793 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 3: And then my partner on we have two labels under 794 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,800 Speaker 3: one umbrella. I have Confidential Records in New York City 795 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,279 Speaker 3: dot com n Y. That's Confidential Records NYC dot call 796 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 3: we good website too Wow. And my partner under the 797 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:53,440 Speaker 3: same umbrella is Make Records. He's a little bit different 798 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:59,279 Speaker 3: than Me's signing members of Ghosts and he's got a 799 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:00,719 Speaker 3: group called over Planes. 800 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:02,000 Speaker 2: Uh. 801 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,799 Speaker 3: It's a little harder rock than what I usually do. Well, 802 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,360 Speaker 3: I produce outside acts. I have a request for some 803 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 3: group in England, Xander and the Pirates. I might I 804 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,960 Speaker 3: may do that. I may do it and uh and 805 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 3: today got a message from by As since we were 806 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 3: speaking of the who has the license for all of 807 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:33,680 Speaker 3: this uh ant whistle incomplete material? That did the family 808 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 3: has licensed to him to complete, so that could be interesting. 809 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 3: I started listening to it today and you know that's 810 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,640 Speaker 3: keeping me very busy. I mean, the label keeps me 811 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 3: really busy and on the go all the time. But 812 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,400 Speaker 3: you know, people said, you want, you know, actually retire. 813 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,719 Speaker 3: What am I going to? You know, I'm qualified to 814 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 3: be the bag boy at Stomping Shop, even though right 815 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 3: up on the wall up there you see you John 816 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 3: and Jack double stoptor of music again, right up there 817 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,279 Speaker 3: on the wall. What that'll get you a bag boy job? 818 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,239 Speaker 3: And now there aren't any bag boy jobs Kasol, I 819 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,320 Speaker 3: made it and pack it yourself, so I would basically 820 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,880 Speaker 3: be unemployed. So I like what I'm doing. 821 00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,239 Speaker 2: I am so grateful for our friend Drew Lane for 822 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 2: connecting us out of Detroit, and I'm so glad that 823 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 2: you've been on Taking a Walk. Thank you for the 824 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,600 Speaker 2: stories and for the music. Jack Douglas, amazing, You're great. 825 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,160 Speaker 3: Welcome, good to see you. Thanks for listening to this 826 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 3: episode of the Taking a Walk podcast. Hear this and 827 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 3: other episodes with your friends and follow us so you 828 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,319 Speaker 3: never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on 829 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your 830 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:56,440 Speaker 3: podcasts