Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi. Everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make, and today I am joined by
Speaker 1: Ross Matthews, someone who built his entire career on raising
Speaker 1: his hand and betting on himself. Ross has made bold
Speaker 1: choices in his personal life, trusting his instincts even when
Speaker 1: people close to him didn't fully understand them at first.
Speaker 1: Now he is happily married to an educator, and together
Speaker 1: they've written the sweetest book, Teo and To. We'll get
Speaker 1: into how they met and why this story mattered to them.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be joined by my good friend
Speaker 1: Ross Matthews.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, when did we see each other last time?
Speaker 1: I think it was on the set of Drew Barrymore?
Speaker 2: Right, I think it was it? Was it true Barrymore?
Speaker 2: Or did we do pictionary with that?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, no, I think did.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: We were on Patuonary together and both of us sucked.
Speaker 2: No, truly terrible. But I will tell you this, I
Speaker 2: was terrible at it. But they experience every time I
Speaker 2: see you, every time I get to talk to you,
Speaker 2: and you know who I am. It's always like not
Speaker 2: weird for me. Do you understand what I mean? Like
Speaker 2: you are kind, but I still I'm still like I
Speaker 2: know who you are and you know who I am.
Speaker 2: Like it's always weird, Kase, it's a compliment I do.
Speaker 1: I do, But it's kind of like a weird Hollywood thing,
Speaker 1: like when you I feel like when you are somebody
Speaker 1: in the public eye and you meet somebody else in
Speaker 1: the public eye, it is as if we know each other,
Speaker 1: but we don't.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't. But I've known you for like a
Speaker 2: really long time school, but you didn't even know that. So, yes,
Speaker 2: that's weird.
Speaker 1: I think we also were both on that here. Remember
Speaker 1: twenty twenty before things went buck wild with the pandemic,
Speaker 1: we were both at the Hero Dog Show. Do you
Speaker 1: remember that?
Speaker 2: I do remember that. Yeah, I love doing the dogs rescut.
Speaker 2: My dog is right over there watch us do this,
Speaker 2: So that's always so important to Hi.
Speaker 1: Audrey, I know her name, that's weird, but ah Audrey Awdrey,
Speaker 1: what she doing over there? Just sleep and.
Speaker 2: She's aging gracefully and I've had her twelve years and
Speaker 2: she's like a rescue. So I don't exactly know, but
Speaker 2: she leaps, she runs, she cares, she eats, so she's happy.
Speaker 1: What a good life you've given her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wesh. She's had a lot of facial work
Speaker 2: because I won't I won't allow wrinkles in the house.
Speaker 2: But other than that, she's perfectly fine. I'm so so glad.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Okay, I love your origin story into the business. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've had this incredible career that you and only you
Speaker 1: made happen all on your own, all from the very beginning,
Speaker 1: just by being one hundred percent authentic to who you are.
Speaker 1: And I remember watching your stuff on jay Leno and
Speaker 1: wondering where in the world did they get this adorable
Speaker 1: man and how did they hit the jackpot like this,
Speaker 1: like you were just like you came on the screen
Speaker 1: and it was wow, he's got it.
Speaker 2: Oh I I'll go back a little further, and thank
Speaker 2: you for saying that. I'll go back a little further.
Speaker 2: So I grew up in a little farmtown, loving pop culture,
Speaker 2: feeling like I was like a weird gay cartoon human,
Speaker 2: you know, like just like I did not fit in
Speaker 2: this little farm town. I didn't know exactly what I was,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't exactly this, and I just loved pop
Speaker 2: culture and I just had this like you know when
Speaker 2: you're young and you just like burn for things and
Speaker 2: you just you can't explain it and you need to
Speaker 2: draw to think. So I knew I was going to
Speaker 2: be on TV, and I knew I was going to
Speaker 2: be working in talk. I just at seven years old,
Speaker 2: I pointed to Regis and told my mom, I'm going
Speaker 2: to do that, you know, Oh my god. And so
Speaker 2: I went to college. I thought, oh, what do you do?
Speaker 2: I got a degree in communication. But while I was
Speaker 2: doing that, I thought and senior year, I thought, I
Speaker 2: got I've got to like get a gig. I don't
Speaker 2: know how to do this. So I got an unpaid
Speaker 2: internship Atlanta, which I remember driving to the interview for it,
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking, this is how it's going to start. Now.
Speaker 2: Mind you it was unpaid it, but I just knew it.
Speaker 2: I had goosebumps.
Speaker 1: I got goosebumps.
Speaker 2: Well you know when you know things. I just knew it.
Speaker 2: And I worked there for free, for like, I mean
Speaker 2: a whole semester, and then my last day, well a
Speaker 2: little other thing. I also am nosy, so I wanted
Speaker 2: to know. And I love television, so I wanted to
Speaker 2: know what a writer was, what a producer was, who
Speaker 2: pulled the curtain or the cord so the curtain could open? Who?
Speaker 2: I wanted to know everything. So instead of like doing
Speaker 2: what I was supposed to do, which was like making
Speaker 2: copies and coffee, I would just go to the writers
Speaker 2: and producers and be like, can you tell me? Like
Speaker 2: just what do you do?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And one of them thought I was funny. So when
Speaker 2: a comic dropped out of covering the Ocean's eleven premiere,
Speaker 2: that writer said, you know who's funny is Ross in
Speaker 2: the Hallway?
Speaker 1: And Ross in the Hallway? Oh my god, can you
Speaker 1: make a show called Ross in the Hallway.
Speaker 2: It's not a bad idea, but it just was. I
Speaker 2: think it was undeniable. I look back now, people ask
Speaker 2: how did it happen? I really don't know, except that
Speaker 2: I knew that it would.
Speaker 1: It was just destiny. Did you have like a big
Speaker 1: picture plan for the career that you wanted? Like it
Speaker 1: sounds like you knew from the very beginning, But once
Speaker 1: you got your foot in that door, what was it
Speaker 1: that you were like, this is what I want? Ultimately,
Speaker 1: and this is how I'm going to get there.
Speaker 2: Well, it's all it sounds like you're saying, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I want to walk, I want to go to the
Speaker 2: moon one day. It sounds as outlandish as that, but like, okay,
Speaker 2: I just knew. I was like, well, I better start
Speaker 2: preparing what you're gonna eat on the moon because it's
Speaker 2: I am no, one hundred percent certain this is happening.
Speaker 2: So when they told me, what they did is they
Speaker 2: brought me in that day to the head writer's office
Speaker 2: and said, you know, would you want to go cover
Speaker 2: with George cliney the Ocean's eleven premiere? And I'm like, ew,
Speaker 2: would I? And so I was like yes, like yes,
Speaker 2: when now you know yeah no? And so I had
Speaker 2: like an hour before it happened to like sit by myself,
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking like this really this crazy moment
Speaker 2: of clarity, Jenny. I don't know if you have these.
Speaker 2: I think we all are lucky to have a few
Speaker 2: in our lives where I remember thinking, Okay, they're going
Speaker 2: to laugh at you at first, just get them to
Speaker 2: left with you by the end. Because this was a
Speaker 2: different time in television like Will and Grace, maybe had
Speaker 2: been on a couple episodes. Ellen had just come out
Speaker 2: and been put away.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It was the year was two thousand and it was
Speaker 2: two thousand in one. Yeah, it was two thousand and
Speaker 2: one December six thousand and one, and I just just thought, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: they're not ready for this, but just get them, get
Speaker 2: them with you by the end, and you have like
Speaker 2: a six minute segment on Leto's what I had, So
Speaker 2: I had six minutes to earn earn it, and it
Speaker 2: was like that for the first few years. That was
Speaker 2: my goal. And I did that show for fourteen years,
Speaker 2: and I remember every time going out there reminding myself
Speaker 2: they're going to laugh at you at first, get them
Speaker 2: to root for you by the end and laugh with you.
Speaker 2: And I did.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that so much.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it that you were able to tell
Speaker 1: What would you tell that guy now? That Young Ross?
Speaker 2: In many ways, I think Young Ross had a lot
Speaker 2: more answers than current Ross stuff. You know, Like I
Speaker 2: don't know, I think when we start including logic on
Speaker 2: our plans, we sort of fall over ourselves. I think
Speaker 2: it's better to just know that you can live on
Speaker 2: the moon and not think about the oxygen. Does that
Speaker 2: make it? That's a metaphor, you And it's what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Oh I do.
Speaker 1: I like metaphors? Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that I could
Speaker 2: do it now. I think I would think about, you know, well,
Speaker 2: what are the sponsors want and what's the democratic audience.
Speaker 1: That like, as we get older, we have all these
Speaker 1: like we understand our responsibilities so much more, and then
Speaker 1: it kind of gets in the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like you know that saying like you,
Speaker 2: I don't want to know how the sausage is made,
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to really know how it works.
Speaker 2: I think there's there's a lot to that because the
Speaker 2: sausage is made is kind of gross and you kind
Speaker 2: of know everything that goes into it. And now I
Speaker 2: produce TV and I've been doing this for almost twenty
Speaker 2: five years, Jenny, and like, I just think I got
Speaker 2: to just not give a crap what the sponsors thought
Speaker 2: and just be funny. And I like, I think I'm
Speaker 2: kind of trying to get back to that a little bit.
Speaker 2: I know, it's weird. It's life is so weird, and
Speaker 2: like getting older is such a weird gift, but it is.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you how old you are? Is that rude?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I just turned forty six.
Speaker 4: My picks for is.
Speaker 2: But my parents died young, both of them relatively long young,
Speaker 2: and I think that there was a little gift in
Speaker 2: there for me, as painful as it was that I'm
Speaker 2: still trying to figure out, which is this understanding that
Speaker 2: there's no take to My dad was fifty nine when
Speaker 2: he died, you know, so I think about, God, I
Speaker 2: have what fourteen years left if I get to that point?
Speaker 2: So what do you want to do? And that's what
Speaker 2: I'm kind of not struggling with. That is what I'm
Speaker 2: processing right now. So when you ask me, like, I
Speaker 2: forget how you exactly phrased it, but I'm a very
Speaker 2: different person than I was twenty five years ago in
Speaker 2: terms of my relationship with the world.
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, I mean I think I thought about that
Speaker 1: too when my dad passed away, for sure, Like that
Speaker 1: sense of mortality becomes such a realistic element in your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I ought to be clear, I'm not like
Speaker 2: obsessed with dying. I'm obsessed with living, right, And you
Speaker 2: want to live? I want to live? You will live? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, you talk about choosing yourself as a way
Speaker 1: to be a better person in your relationships in life.
Speaker 1: How did you come to know that it starts with you?
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think I knew that younger. I
Speaker 2: think I think my husband had a lot to do
Speaker 2: with it. And Neil meeting him like six years ago,
Speaker 2: your husband.
Speaker 1: Who is a teacher, who is a hero.
Speaker 2: He's so smart, so smart, and like he we go
Speaker 2: off to work and come home and like, what do
Speaker 2: you do? And I'm like, oh, like on the set today,
Speaker 2: I dress up like Dolly Parton and made chili and
Speaker 2: my nail fell off and I go, what did you
Speaker 2: do it? He'll be like, well, there was some at
Speaker 2: risk youth who we counseled through. I'm like, understood, I
Speaker 2: understand which one of us makes a real difference in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: That's so crazy. I love it so much.
Speaker 2: Wild which is my dinner is so fun because we
Speaker 2: really catch up on our day and our days are
Speaker 2: so different. But it starts with me, you know. I
Speaker 2: think it's time and age that teach you use you
Speaker 2: your role in it. You know, it's about I was
Speaker 2: just talking to my brother this morning about something that
Speaker 2: happened with somebody else, and I heard myself say well,
Speaker 2: rather than just be like, well, screw with them and
Speaker 2: have that, but it was like, well, you know, they've
Speaker 2: been going through a lot, and I wonder in their
Speaker 2: childhood if they had you know. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's the kind of stuff you get to know as
Speaker 2: you're older, Like you can trace back your own reflex
Speaker 2: in your own response to things and have empathy for others.
Speaker 1: Right, And I think also, yeah, you start to be
Speaker 1: a little less reactive out of the gate, at least
Speaker 1: for me. That's why are you getting good at it?
Speaker 1: I'm getting better at it. I'm definitely getting better at it.
Speaker 1: I think that that's one of the things that I've
Speaker 1: really noticed about getting older is that I have that
Speaker 1: ability to give it a beat. I'll really think things
Speaker 1: through for a second and then respond instead of just
Speaker 1: firing off something which didn't really serve me very well.
Speaker 1: So I think it's a matter of like looking at
Speaker 1: your life and saying, what has served me, well, what
Speaker 1: have I done, whether it's in my career or whether
Speaker 1: it's in my personal life, what have I done that
Speaker 1: got me the results that I wanted or made me
Speaker 1: feel authentic in living the life that I want being
Speaker 1: the person that I want, and you're able to really
Speaker 1: kind of sort of you know, itemize those things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what am luxury that we can do that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: You think about like I wonder if my mom ever
Speaker 2: got to have I mean, I'm sure she did, but
Speaker 2: she was so busy just kind of surviving, getting through
Speaker 2: it all. Like, isn't it great that I hope everyone Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think if I had like two
Speaker 2: little kids running around stuff, when I have this time
Speaker 2: to try to be so try to get evolved, you know,
Speaker 2: like what a luxury it is. But it really is
Speaker 2: a luxury, And I'm so grateful to kind of be
Speaker 2: aging like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we're lucky for sure, But I think it
Speaker 1: gets everybody. Whether you're a busy mom running around, we
Speaker 1: all have our moments where we are reflective. I think
Speaker 1: at some point.
Speaker 2: See, I don't think I could do it, the fact
Speaker 2: that you have kids and do all this, Like I
Speaker 2: am so simple that if I had I have a
Speaker 2: chihuah one, I'm like, it's really hard for me to
Speaker 2: find time to reflect, you know what I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know how you do it. I look at like Drew,
Speaker 2: I see her work every day. I go to the
Speaker 2: same hours as her, and like she also has like
Speaker 2: two human beings who are growing up that she's dealing with.
Speaker 2: And I just I don't know, Like, how did you
Speaker 2: do it? How do you rise up and like do
Speaker 2: all that?
Speaker 1: You know, there's no like rhyme or reason. There's no
Speaker 1: reason why I'm able to do it. It just when
Speaker 1: you get in a situation, you all of a sudden
Speaker 1: just get the wherewithal to make it happen, like it
Speaker 1: comes with the territory, and then you just do you
Speaker 1: just go.
Speaker 2: I guess what's the other choice is not Yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess you just do it? Maybe I would, maybe you
Speaker 2: know what, maybe maybe we all can rise up to it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I don't know, but I don't
Speaker 2: want to sell myself short. But I'll know, my god,
Speaker 2: no never.
Speaker 4: I'm Kristin Davis, host of the podcast Are You a Charlotte?
Speaker 4: Most anticipated guest from season three is here the Tray
Speaker 4: to My Charlotte. Kyle McLaughlin joins me to relive all
Speaker 4: of the magical Tray in Charlotte moments. He reveals what
Speaker 4: he thinks of Trey giving Charlotte a cardboard baby.
Speaker 1: Why would I bring her a cardboard baby? I was
Speaker 1: literally I was like, this doesn't track for me at all.
Speaker 4: When he found out Trey's shortcomings, I'm kind of.
Speaker 1: Excited to talking about it. You know, I think he's
Speaker 1: he's a guy spends time in Central Park. You know,
Speaker 1: he's probably don't know' be some.
Speaker 2: Surgery stuff, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was like, all this kind of stuff going on,
Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine, and they said,
Speaker 1: but he's impotent, And I was like, he's impotent.
Speaker 4: And why he chose not to return to it?
Speaker 2: Just like that, They came and presented an idea, and
Speaker 2: I was like, I get I see it.
Speaker 1: It's so kind of a one joke idea.
Speaker 4: You don't want to miss this. Listen to Are you
Speaker 4: a Charlotte on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
Speaker 4: you get your podcasts?
Speaker 1: Were there any choices I'm curious earlier in your life
Speaker 1: that maybe you were making or made that your friends
Speaker 1: and family maybe weren't sure about, or maybe they weren't
Speaker 1: supportive of. Did you have that growing up? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean when I tell you that I
Speaker 2: would say what I wanted to do in my life
Speaker 2: when I was little, and it never changed. The reaction
Speaker 2: wasn't always I mean, it was funny at first, and
Speaker 2: then I remember specific like relatives who I love and
Speaker 2: I'm close to, who were just looking out for me,
Speaker 2: telling me like what are you doing get a degree
Speaker 2: in public relations? Like if you want to be in media,
Speaker 2: what are you doing? And then even one moment I
Speaker 2: remember before my dad died, he got to see the
Speaker 2: first couple years of LENO and the beginning he asked me.
Speaker 2: I remember, like him being very cautious the way he
Speaker 2: asked me, but he said, like, do you think maybe
Speaker 2: they're making fun of you? And I remember knowing what
Speaker 2: you're saying, but I just said, like, truly, I don't
Speaker 2: give a shit, because like I want to use this
Speaker 2: they can make fun of me, but like what I
Speaker 2: was saying at the beginning, Jenny, I wanted to win.
Speaker 2: By the end, I was convinced I could, you know,
Speaker 2: I could get them to root for me by the end,
Speaker 2: and so I told him like, I don't care if
Speaker 2: they are and if and if they are, like I'm
Speaker 2: still going to use this platform. Yeah, yeah, but it
Speaker 2: did scare me a little bit, but I still was undeterred.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I did have people. I mean, it's a
Speaker 2: crazy thing about when you were little, like I wasn't
Speaker 2: going to be an actress, Like okay, you know, but
Speaker 2: then look what you've done, and I don't what is
Speaker 2: that inside is that we just we hear that, we
Speaker 2: understand their nerves, we understand the pragmatism in their argument,
Speaker 2: but like, okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't align with what you have in mind,
Speaker 1: so yeah, just let it go. Yeah, do you think
Speaker 1: standing clear, being able to stand clear in those choices
Speaker 1: has ultimately helped you show up better and stronger and
Speaker 1: more authentic?
Speaker 2: Now yeah, yes, yeah, I'm processing. Yes, I think in
Speaker 2: the early days I had no choice but to show
Speaker 2: up like that because I got my one and I'm
Speaker 2: going to talk about in terms of my authenticity, right
Speaker 2: being a gay person on television back then everything. But
Speaker 2: I didn't have the luxury of ever being in the closet,
Speaker 2: Like can you imagine if I if.
Speaker 1: I was just like no, I don't mean to laugh,
Speaker 1: but no, exactly, nobody can put ross in a closet.
Speaker 2: No, right, like baby in the corner, Ross in the closet.
Speaker 2: It's not happening. And so I never had the pressure
Speaker 2: of not talking about it. You know, people are like, oh, what,
Speaker 2: what gave you the courage to talk about Are you nuts?
Speaker 2: I would have had to like, what wear flannel and
Speaker 2: not speak for a decade this is and I'd look
Speaker 2: like quiet lesbian, it's not happening with me. I'm never
Speaker 2: passing as a street man. So that was actually a
Speaker 2: really big gift in terms of standing by my authentic self. Yeah,
Speaker 2: no other choice.
Speaker 1: You give such great advice, and you know, I love
Speaker 1: your social platform what you're doing with it. But what
Speaker 1: would you say to a young person out there who
Speaker 1: doesn't have that feeling of safety or security that they
Speaker 1: can do it authentically one hundred percent all the time?
Speaker 1: What would you say to them and encourage them to
Speaker 1: make independent choices.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I would say, and I want I
Speaker 2: want this to be sort of a broad statement or
Speaker 2: broad advice to anybody who feels like maybe they are
Speaker 2: against the grain, whatever that means to you. I grew
Speaker 2: up in a little farmtown, and in my case, I
Speaker 2: was gay in a little farmtown, and I didn't see
Speaker 2: anybody else gay. I didn't see them on media. I didn't.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe there was like a hairdresser you were
Speaker 2: like in town, like Larry or so. I don't know him,
Speaker 2: but you know, he seemed great. But like, there wasn't
Speaker 2: anybody that I could see as a gay grown up.
Speaker 2: So I remember thinking, as a little kid, can I
Speaker 2: become a grown up? Because I, you know, grown up
Speaker 2: like a grown up guy married a woman. I knew
Speaker 2: I was going to do that, So like, what is
Speaker 2: life then? I didn't know, right, And so what I
Speaker 2: wish I would have known then is that somewhere, maybe
Speaker 2: not outside my front living room window or my bedroom window,
Speaker 2: but somewhere in the world there would be a group
Speaker 2: of people that would not tolerate me, but like celebrate
Speaker 2: me and love me because they were they had what
Speaker 2: I was in common. And so I think for anybody
Speaker 2: who goes against the grain, if you can just hold
Speaker 2: on to the fact that I promise you somewhere there
Speaker 2: is a community for you, somewhere, maybe not in front
Speaker 2: of your house or in your small town, but if
Speaker 2: you seek it out, there will be people just like you,
Speaker 2: people who will make you feel like you're not alone.
Speaker 1: Did you have that within your own small town community
Speaker 1: at all? Did you have anybody that was championing for
Speaker 1: you or celebrating your uniqueness.
Speaker 2: Yes, not in terms of like peers that were also queer,
Speaker 2: you know, but in terms of like especially women, my mother,
Speaker 2: my mom's dress friend, Bonnie teachers, especially Diana at the bank.
Speaker 2: Shout out to Diana from Criana used to give me, yes,
Speaker 2: she used to give me a little suckers when I
Speaker 2: would go in and I she had to know I
Speaker 2: was like a giant, flaming eight year old, but she
Speaker 2: loved me, you know. So it was women women who
Speaker 2: made me feel like, I mean really the shit really,
Speaker 2: like when I went into that.
Speaker 1: And like they just lit up when you came in
Speaker 1: the room. I know the feeling because I am Diane
Speaker 1: right now. I'm like you when I see you, every
Speaker 1: time I see you, I feel like I love this man.
Speaker 1: Like there, I can't hold back thank you.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's almost like that what you like get
Speaker 2: energy that you feel is like what fuels me Like
Speaker 2: I would then like I felt so good going in
Speaker 2: to see Diana at the bank that then it became
Speaker 2: my mission to make Diana feel great at the bank,
Speaker 2: you know, and and like that. I don't know when
Speaker 2: that was my focus. I didn't give a crap that
Speaker 2: they were being mean to me over there, because like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you don't get it, but Diana's going to be so
Speaker 2: excited when I come in with or and fill in
Speaker 2: the blank, you know. So it was. It was. That's
Speaker 2: why I mean, as gay as I am, I I
Speaker 2: love women. I mean I don't have sex. I don't
Speaker 2: want to touch them, I don't have sex with them,
Speaker 2: but but I want to learn from them. I want
Speaker 2: I want their I want their genius.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the beauty that you know what. That's why
Speaker 1: I gravitate towards the gay community so much, because I
Speaker 1: feel like they're my best friends, like I do. There's
Speaker 1: no weirdness ever, there's just happy and support and like camaraderie.
Speaker 1: I just think that it's so interesting to hear from
Speaker 1: your perspective how much you love women, because I've been
Speaker 1: saying that all these years that I'm just dialed in
Speaker 1: when it comes to my friends that are gay, and
Speaker 1: I love them so much, I can't even take.
Speaker 2: It, can I. I don't know if you're taking applications,
Speaker 2: Jenny Garth, but if you are looking for to add
Speaker 2: another gay friend who will love you, I.
Speaker 1: Actually you're in.
Speaker 2: You're hired, Audrey, I'm in. Okay.
Speaker 1: Speaking of gay and happy, you had a post not
Speaker 1: that long ago. I'm not sure when it was that
Speaker 1: you said that it is exactly how you pictured your
Speaker 1: life as a grown up, gay, happy and in love.
Speaker 2: That's exactly it. I know, right. It was a moment.
Speaker 2: It was this summer. I was eating at one of
Speaker 2: our favorite restaurants. You know I live. I live in
Speaker 2: New York now, which I can't believe it, but I've
Speaker 2: been here for almost six years, and we were at
Speaker 2: this restaurant we go to all the time. It was
Speaker 2: beautiful summer day and my husband Wellington, was across from
Speaker 2: me and I had a martini and Audrey Mark dog
Speaker 2: or twelve, I mean, this is really gay, was next
Speaker 2: to us. You're on a little bag and the chair
Speaker 2: next to me, and I was wearing a hat that
Speaker 2: Drew gave me that it was like, it's Audrey on
Speaker 2: my hat. So I'm like, such levels of gay, you know,
Speaker 2: but it's exactly what I pictured. It was one of
Speaker 2: those moments in life where I was like, Okay, if
Speaker 2: it all goes away, I'm just noting it right now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it happened, and I can. I'll always remember what this
Speaker 2: feels like.
Speaker 1: Good. Well, let's talk about the happy end and love
Speaker 1: part of that, because, as you said before, your husband
Speaker 1: is a teacher, God bless his soul. What do you
Speaker 1: love about him?
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's he he's a teacher forever and now
Speaker 2: he's he's like an administrator. To know, he like trains educators,
Speaker 2: he does all that. What I love about my husband
Speaker 2: is how different our life is. You know, he was
Speaker 2: he was born in the Dominican Republic. He moved here
Speaker 2: at five. I didn't speak the language. Came and was freezing.
Speaker 2: It was November. He didn't know what cold was. You know.
Speaker 2: Think about all the foreign this land, this country was
Speaker 2: to him. And now I meet him, and he when
Speaker 2: I meet him, he has two masters, a doctorate, is
Speaker 2: you know, like an assistant superintendent. And I just meet
Speaker 2: this person who is such a force of nature, all
Speaker 2: self made, and I just remember being in awe of him.
Speaker 2: And then as I got to know him, I realized
Speaker 2: how silly he was. And I love both of those
Speaker 2: components of him. That he's like this brilliant person who
Speaker 2: it's so different in me from me in many ways,
Speaker 2: but also I relate to how aggressive and ambitious he is,
Speaker 2: and then when he comes home, he's just a whack
Speaker 2: of do and I, I don't know. I love that
Speaker 2: he makes me laugh every day. He makes me think
Speaker 2: he can think.
Speaker 1: I'm awe laughter, it's laughter, right, number one on the.
Speaker 2: List, number one. The other I was just in Charleston,
Speaker 2: South Carolina, and I came home the other night and
Speaker 2: made you know. When I got home at five, I
Speaker 2: made dinner and I realized I was going to bed
Speaker 2: that we just had music on and I cooked and
Speaker 2: we didn't stop talking the whole We didn't put a
Speaker 2: TV on, but we didn't stop talking and laughing until bedtime.
Speaker 2: And that was just a normal day. But I really
Speaker 2: clocked it.
Speaker 1: It was great. That's good. I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Hey.
Speaker 1: It's Wilfred Dell and Sabrina Bryan.
Speaker 3: From the podcast Magical Rewind and we have a very
Speaker 3: special guest on this week's episode. He's the mastermind behind
Speaker 3: some of your favorite movies like Hocus Pocus, Newsy's The Descendants,
Speaker 3: and of course High School Musical. Yes, it is the
Speaker 3: one and only a living legend. Director Kenny or Tega we.
Speaker 5: Sit down with Kenny to talk about his incredible career
Speaker 5: and the legacy he's created with his choreography and films.
Speaker 2: You seriously will not want to miss this one.
Speaker 5: Listen to Magical Rewind on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Hi, it's Jenny Garth, host of the I Choose Me podcast.
Speaker 1: This week, I'm so excited to welcome my friend Gabrielle
Speaker 1: carteris the Andrea Zuckerman from Beverly Hills nine o two
Speaker 1: on ZHO to the pod. We're choosing to get real.
Speaker 4: I applied to the networks about my age and contracts.
Speaker 1: They never would have hired me if they had known
Speaker 1: my age. We're choosing to be honest.
Speaker 4: She looked at me, and she said, this business is
Speaker 4: about the mask, which you have neither of, and.
Speaker 1: We're choosing to get nostalgic. Listen to I Choose Me
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. I know your mom passed away. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what year was that, twenty twenty so I heard
Speaker 1: you say in a post also that you had to
Speaker 1: mourn your mom alone, and my heart broke because I
Speaker 1: can't even imagine how isolating that must have felt, even
Speaker 1: on top of everything that was happening with the world.
Speaker 1: But to be going through that kind of grief and
Speaker 1: loss alone in a house, alone, where you didn't have
Speaker 1: people coming.
Speaker 2: We didn't even have a funeral because it was the
Speaker 2: height of COVID, you know, it was. It's the only
Speaker 2: way that I know to mourn my mother because it's
Speaker 2: the only It's how it happened for me. But looking back,
Speaker 2: I do feel robbed of closure maybe or what usually happened.
Speaker 2: Let's go back. What usually happens when somebody dies is
Speaker 2: the family gathers, you sit together, you cry, you talk
Speaker 2: about the person, you literally mourn, and you are held
Speaker 2: up by those who love you. That was not my experience.
Speaker 2: And I still am. I think I'm still in the
Speaker 2: middle of it. I mean, it's going to be six
Speaker 2: years in May, and I I just didn't get that
Speaker 2: part of it.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, like, celebrate her life, yeah, in
Speaker 1: a community set, you know, or mark her existence almost,
Speaker 1: you know, like yes, and I and.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm still figuring it out how I
Speaker 2: feel about that. It wasn't my choice but I mean
Speaker 2: literally we you know, people couldn't gather. So but I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know how.
Speaker 1: What if you what if you did something, what if
Speaker 1: you created?
Speaker 2: Think about it? Yeah, I think about it, but I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't. I don't know, Jenny, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I'm scared to go pulled all that up
Speaker 2: again because I'm like, no, I mean, it wasn't put away, right,
Speaker 2: but at least it's put away that I want to
Speaker 2: like take all that laundry out and fold it again,
Speaker 2: and we might be a yeah, yah ya yaye.
Speaker 1: That's a big choice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big choice, but it might be the
Speaker 2: best choice. So I'm on that fence. I have those
Speaker 2: same thoughts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, only you'll know, yeah, and then the answer is
Speaker 1: whatever it is, because we all grieve differently, obviously, But
Speaker 1: I just I wanted to go back and be able
Speaker 1: to support you during that time. You know, just send
Speaker 1: you loving energy, and I just can't imagine how hard
Speaker 1: that must have been. You're so strong, thank you.
Speaker 2: You know, it was such a shitty time for everybody,
Speaker 2: remember that. Oh god, I know it was pretty bad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it did bring me here, I have to say,
Speaker 2: I think if I I think maybe in those moments
Speaker 2: that's when I also decided to move to New York.
Speaker 2: Is because I met I met Wellie January. To my
Speaker 2: head when January twenty twenty, Mom pissed away in March
Speaker 2: or so I may, when the world was shut down,
Speaker 2: oh man, and then I you know, I came to
Speaker 2: visit Wellington in New York in October of twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: and that's when I popped in for Drew for a
Speaker 2: day and then just stayed here and decided to move.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I would have like put a
Speaker 2: saddle on life and ridden it, you know, to write
Speaker 2: it like I did, if if I hadn't been broken
Speaker 2: from the death of my mother like that. You know,
Speaker 2: I think in a way she maybe orchestrated it from
Speaker 2: beyond or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, you do feel that way? I feel that way?
Speaker 2: You do?
Speaker 1: Or are you?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: I feel like her passing or someone's passing always leads
Speaker 1: to some sort of divine guidance at the around the
Speaker 1: corner if you're open to it. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the hardest part when you're in grief and you're you're
Speaker 1: struggling so much. But then when you are open to
Speaker 1: feeling them and be you know, being led by them
Speaker 1: on a spiritual level. Magical things seemed to open up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again getting rid of logic, right, I feel like,
Speaker 2: remember how we talked about when you add logic and
Speaker 2: then you kind of wouldn't make the same decisions. But
Speaker 2: I think I was so heartbroken that logic was out
Speaker 2: the window and I was just operating by gut, which
Speaker 2: is kind of I think when the best stuff happens. Yeah, yeah, truly.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you and your husband wrote a book together.
Speaker 2: We could tell me.
Speaker 1: Where is it? When did happen?
Speaker 2: So we were at our wedding. I remember our wedding
Speaker 2: day Wellington. So it was so beautiful. We got married
Speaker 2: blocks from where we met in Portavarta. It was the
Speaker 2: first thing out of COVID. It was like twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: So people were like I remember looking at them, be
Speaker 2: like I haven't left the house in years, and here
Speaker 2: I am, and for it was great. I mean I
Speaker 2: think six people got COVID at the wedding, but whatever,
Speaker 2: it still was worth it. But so wedding comes to
Speaker 2: me and his nephews, who are of course my nephew's
Speaker 2: now but his sister's kids were our ring bearers, and
Speaker 2: he said, I saw the cutest thing. Remind me to
Speaker 2: tell you later. He told me this on our wedding day,
Speaker 2: and the next day he told me I saw them
Speaker 2: with their father rehearsing how to like walk in unison
Speaker 2: and he's like, it didn't occur to me that they
Speaker 2: would be so nervous to do it. And we started
Speaker 2: talking about how cute that was that they wanted were
Speaker 2: that they were nervous, and I was like, they're nervous
Speaker 2: is my wedding day? Why are you? I was making
Speaker 2: a joke. But when we asked her they were nervous,
Speaker 2: they said, well, we just wanted to show up for
Speaker 2: you guys, you know, And we thought, oh god. Wellington
Speaker 2: the educator thought there is such a lesson in that
Speaker 2: about no matter who you are, showing up to your
Speaker 2: family matters, right. We all want to do that. So
Speaker 2: we decided to write this book. I'm a storyteller by nature,
Speaker 2: he's an educator, and so we used this book, this
Speaker 2: story with those things. Drew our Drew was our actual
Speaker 2: flower girl at our wedding, so we made her a
Speaker 2: little girl in the book because it would be weird
Speaker 2: to have like a movie star directly, a little weird. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it was. So the book just was so cute
Speaker 2: and I'm so happy because we're right. We just wrote
Speaker 2: a second book in the series, and that'll be coming
Speaker 2: out soon too.
Speaker 1: What's that one going to be called?
Speaker 2: It's a Teo and Teo story. So we follow the
Speaker 2: boys and our relationship. But we like we realized is
Speaker 2: you know, when we had this idea, we did a
Speaker 2: lot of research in terms of books about two uncles
Speaker 2: for kids, you know, in terms of just like that
Speaker 2: special relationship, and it's it's a niche, I understand, but
Speaker 2: it is valuable, and there weren't a lot of them.
Speaker 2: So we just thought, well, let's tell our story. I
Speaker 2: love that write what you know right exactly. It's the
Speaker 2: publishers were like, where's the second book. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: something has to happen. I can't make up a scenario.
Speaker 2: This has to be based in real life. So as
Speaker 2: soon as like something happened, I thought, oh, there is
Speaker 2: a story we're telling. We wrote it so good.
Speaker 1: You clearly love working on the Drew Barrymore Show because
Speaker 1: I mean, you have a heartbeat that's such a dream
Speaker 1: job for you, so perfect. I can't even a show
Speaker 1: that you're now a producer on. Yeah, can you tell
Speaker 1: me how that happened?
Speaker 2: Well, I, uh, well, the show is great. You've been
Speaker 2: at the show. We love when you come on the show.
Speaker 2: There's a special vibe there. It comes from Drew. We're
Speaker 2: in season six. It is the best. I love producing
Speaker 2: in general, even on The Tonight Show. You know, I
Speaker 2: was there for a few years before and then I
Speaker 2: became a creative consultant was my title. But I was
Speaker 2: really producing all my sons with it, and I learned.
Speaker 2: I mean, I went to boot camp with the best.
Speaker 2: These are people that work on The Tonight Show are
Speaker 2: the top of the game, right seasoned? Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: learned from them so much. And so I've been producing
Speaker 2: really my whole career. I produced Drag Race. I produce
Speaker 2: this show now other things I love. I think TV
Speaker 2: is like a rhythm. It's almost like music. You know,
Speaker 2: you watch it and you're like, if you're watching rehearsal, okay,
Speaker 2: that's wrong, that note is off. We got to fix
Speaker 2: like the cadence of it. It's not working. And I
Speaker 2: love going to rehearsal. I sit down there. There'll be
Speaker 2: like a stand in for me sometimes. I just I
Speaker 2: need to see it sometimes and then I pop in
Speaker 2: and you can just iron out and make it smooth
Speaker 2: and help tell the story in a more balanced, smooth way.
Speaker 2: I love that part of producing. I'm not great at like,
Speaker 2: let's find three experts and track them down in ninety
Speaker 2: seven emails. I'm not that kind of producer. Well it
Speaker 2: could be, but it's a different.
Speaker 1: Kind of producer.
Speaker 2: You're creative, yes, yes, And I love finding people who
Speaker 2: that I'm obsessed with, who I think people will relate to.
Speaker 2: There's this woman on TikTok who goes thrifting and she's
Speaker 2: an antique expert, and she'll tell you about what to
Speaker 2: look for, like this is this kind of Crystal is cut,
Speaker 2: this kind of Crystal's handmade. I'm obsessed, doctor Lori. We're
Speaker 2: getting her on the show. So like finding people who
Speaker 2: I think have something to say. I love that part
Speaker 2: of producing. But it's about a love affair with television.
Speaker 2: I just I love editing. I edit all my own stuff.
Speaker 2: I love not on television, but all my like when
Speaker 2: I'm on my social media, I edit all that stuff.
Speaker 2: It's it's a puzzle piece. Media is I just I've
Speaker 2: always loved it since a little you know me? Hello,
Speaker 2: you know better than me? Are you doing it for sol?
Speaker 2: How long?
Speaker 1: Now? Oh god, don't do that.
Speaker 2: I don't understand it.
Speaker 1: A long time since I was seventeen.
Speaker 2: But I mean, you know, so we know what we're doing,
Speaker 2: and we've been around people who do it better than anybody.
Speaker 2: And if you pay a lunchin around great people, you
Speaker 2: become much better.
Speaker 1: I know that's the way to go. Go to somebody
Speaker 1: who's his nose more than you, who's had more success
Speaker 1: than you, and just watch and learn. I mean, just
Speaker 1: hearing all of that makes me really have a you know,
Speaker 1: I know, but like I still have even a more
Speaker 1: appreciation for how hard you have worked to get where
Speaker 1: you are and how far you have come.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Congratulations by the way, on the show getting three Daytime
Speaker 1: Emmy Awards this year.
Speaker 2: I know, I know our her and makeup team, our
Speaker 2: directing team and Drew herself, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So deserved.
Speaker 2: And what does it feel like it feels? I know
Speaker 2: it feels well, there's a few fee one. I'm so
Speaker 2: proud of the people I work with. They're so good
Speaker 2: at what they do, to see them be recognized and
Speaker 2: you know, to dominate. It's the job is great recognition,
Speaker 2: the nomination, and then to win, right but selfishly, the
Speaker 2: Ross Matthews experience was going to the Daytime Emmys and
Speaker 2: walking it and thinking about being in Mount Vernon watching
Speaker 2: Rosie cry when she won her first or watching Oprah,
Speaker 2: or watching Susan Lucci and Jenny When I'm tell you,
Speaker 2: I would sit and watch them and be like, oh God,
Speaker 2: when I get to go there, I know I'm gonna
Speaker 2: wear a white tuxiedo because I love that look and
Speaker 2: I know, I mean when I was in like a kid,
Speaker 2: and so to go there it was just confirmation. It
Speaker 2: was like I wished I could have. I thought about
Speaker 2: Little Ross and I wish I could show him, but
Speaker 2: I know what he would say if I could go back,
Speaker 2: like in the time machine and say look and he
Speaker 2: Little Ross would go, I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, duh, here we are.
Speaker 2: I know. This was my plan and it was great
Speaker 2: and I felt like I didn't feel like an imposter,
Speaker 2: you know, because sometimes we do. I felt like I
Speaker 2: earned my ticket in a way like I felt like
Speaker 2: I you did. Yeah, I felt like this is what
Speaker 2: I do because a lot of times in life you
Speaker 2: feel like, what am I doing here? Shut up? Just
Speaker 2: act like you belong right, blended, yeah, Blendon, this one
Speaker 2: I felt like, Okay, yeah, girl, you earned your ticket,
Speaker 2: so enjoy it. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 1: Feeling for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good, And I enjoyed the show. I didn't
Speaker 2: go to the bathroom once it was three and a
Speaker 2: half hours. I used in the front and I just yeah,
Speaker 2: that face, just stupid happy.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so exciting. I love this for you. Do
Speaker 1: you find yourself talking to little Drew to little drewid listen?
Speaker 1: Do you find yourself talking to little Ross a lot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, more about asking questions and talking to him like
Speaker 2: I think about like, like, how would you do it
Speaker 2: if you didn't know what to do? I think about
Speaker 2: that a lot, Like the conversation a little bit earlier.
Speaker 2: I think I turned to him for answers more than
Speaker 2: to give him answers. I love to I just feel
Speaker 2: like I knew more when I was little. I didn't
Speaker 2: let the life get in the way of making decisions.
Speaker 2: It was more gut.
Speaker 1: Well that your gut has worked for you. Thanks. It
Speaker 1: seems as if I want to ask you I know
Speaker 1: your your schedules really crazy. That daily talk show schedule
Speaker 1: is very grueling, especially as you're producing it. What do
Speaker 1: you do to create peace? Like inner Piece, any tips
Speaker 1: you could share on finding those pockets of peaceful moments
Speaker 1: or even moments of self care.
Speaker 2: I think for peace moments for me, or going to
Speaker 2: gratitude with the perspective we talked about, you know, like,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if it's part of aging or what,
Speaker 2: but I really do go there even when I'm frustrated
Speaker 2: or something like I'll just try to just God, this
Speaker 2: sounds so cheesy, it's really I get it. I hear it, like,
Speaker 2: go to gratitude sounds so dumb, Like it's like it's
Speaker 2: on a sign, a go to gratitude, right, I hear
Speaker 2: my Though I don't want to speak in home good
Speaker 2: sign lingo, but I really do feel like that. I
Speaker 2: think I feel it centers me, it brings me to somewhere,
Speaker 2: or like I can be really annoyed by something at
Speaker 2: like something what happened that's just unfair coming, and I'll
Speaker 2: just be like okay, okay, okay. Because the flip side
Speaker 2: of this ross is there's no job. The flip side
Speaker 2: is you're working still at Lane Bryant, which was a
Speaker 2: great job just but like in high school at the mall,
Speaker 2: like you know, like there are ye.
Speaker 1: I love it that you've worked at Lane Bryant. Hold on,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, my people, hello, I love wow wow.
Speaker 2: But I even like in my life, even a bad
Speaker 2: day of work is like the fact that I have
Speaker 2: a badge that gets me through those doors is a win,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: So you go back to gratitude. Yeah, it works every time.
Speaker 2: I think it does. I think it's a cliche for
Speaker 2: a reason, but it really does. Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems so silly.
Speaker 2: With perspective, though, I think perspective is an ingredient that
Speaker 2: gratitude needs because like I'm grateful to be alive. Okay, thanks,
Speaker 2: thank you, next, right, but like I'm grateful because of
Speaker 2: this reason because it could be this. It's helpful for me.
Speaker 1: In a world though that as ours right now, that
Speaker 1: feels wildly out of control. How do you choose gratitude?
Speaker 2: Like, well, you better choose it quick because if the
Speaker 2: world is out of control, who knows what we have left.
Speaker 2: So if you're going to choose gratitude, I would do it.
Speaker 1: Like maybe today oh yeah, right now, because wait till tomorrow,
Speaker 1: which you have. Either you can live in anger and
Speaker 1: resentment and unhappiness, or you can just live in gratitude.
Speaker 1: It sounds a lot simpler.
Speaker 2: Well, it is a choice. I understand we're wired certain
Speaker 2: ways and people are wired in different ways. In my wiring,
Speaker 2: it is it's always faster, short, or quicker, more efficient
Speaker 2: to go to gratitude as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Oh my gosh. You wrote a very funny book
Speaker 1: called name Drop The Really Good Celebrity Stories. I usually
Speaker 1: only tell it a happy hour, so that's a good title.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: So I was thinking in honor of that, we would
Speaker 1: play a little name Drop game for a fun holiday
Speaker 1: bonus that will drop later this week, so I don't
Speaker 1: miss that. But I'm just so thrilled at all of
Speaker 1: your success and I'm just so grateful for you joining
Speaker 1: me today, my old friend.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy. Listen, I and we and we are friends,
Speaker 2: you know, I really, I really do mean that. But
Speaker 2: I I'll love you for so long and I'm not
Speaker 2: nervous around you anymore. But I do have to say
Speaker 2: at first I wasn't, but I love that we are here,
Speaker 2: So thank you. I love our Yes, I love our evolution. Okay,
Speaker 2: before I let you go, Ross Matthews, what was your
Speaker 2: last I.
Speaker 1: Choose me moment?
Speaker 2: I really think it. I don't know it's my last one,
Speaker 2: but my last big one I hinted earlier I talked
Speaker 2: briefly about. But it was about coming to New York.
Speaker 2: It was about feeling something and following it, even though
Speaker 2: it was super scary. I think, you know what a
Speaker 2: luxury was that I could do that, that I could
Speaker 2: but and it was almost selfish in a way, you know,
Speaker 2: like I'm going to go move across the country now
Speaker 2: and okay, and I had to do it in a
Speaker 2: way where my brother come watch the dogs for a
Speaker 2: few months, and that we had to move things around
Speaker 2: to make it happen.
Speaker 1: Other people had to help.
Speaker 2: And it was only so I could go do something,
Speaker 2: you know, that I could go follow this person who
Speaker 2: I was falling in love with and go show up
Speaker 2: at the show. That there was an opportunity. It was
Speaker 2: just for me, and so many people moved things to
Speaker 2: make it happen. But I think about what if I
Speaker 2: hadn't been selfish in that time?
Speaker 1: Do you think it was selfish?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 2: I don't think so thought it was until you just
Speaker 2: asked me that, because it was all about me. It
Speaker 2: was like, I want this, I'm going to do this.
Speaker 2: It's going to be uncomfortable for some people, and I'm
Speaker 2: gonna have to ask favors from some people and so
Speaker 2: I can go get this. So in a way, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was. But I think it would have been into
Speaker 2: service not to yes.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that the people you asked things
Speaker 1: of would see it as you being selfish. Honestly, I
Speaker 1: would think that your brother would be like, look what
Speaker 1: he's done, and if he hadn't done that, who knows
Speaker 1: what would have happened in his life.
Speaker 2: Well, I love that perspective, you know. Wellington tells me
Speaker 2: that too. I always think I'm annoying or in the
Speaker 2: way of people, and he's like, some people want to
Speaker 2: show up for you. Some people like doing things.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people want to show up
Speaker 1: for you, Ross because you're a good human.
Speaker 2: Well, Jen Garreth, can I go what time tomorrow? Let's
Speaker 2: do this again?
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, I love you.
Speaker 2: I love you.