Speaker 1: On today's episode, we're going to tackle this subject I
Speaker 1: know just a little bit about and by a little
Speaker 1: I mean not very much at all, Um, but I
Speaker 1: definitely enjoyed it um at duck hunting. I've only been
Speaker 1: in the duck, goose, blind and combined four times, which
Speaker 1: pretty much makes me as far from an expert as
Speaker 1: you can get. But today's guest is my good friend Alex.
Speaker 1: You're just from Pacific Calls. He spent a bunch of
Speaker 1: time with the birds and it has even more knowledge,
Speaker 1: I would say, regarding the ducks and duck calls. So
Speaker 1: welcome to the show, Alex. Hey, thanks Jake, glad to
Speaker 1: be here. How things been besides busy, you know, just busy,
Speaker 1: I mean, as you know, because we talk every now
Speaker 1: and then, you know, in the middle of building the
Speaker 1: shop and trying to get some construction done in the
Speaker 1: cold weather and do all that. So we've had some
Speaker 1: very interesting days as of late. Yeah, for all of
Speaker 1: you that don't know, Alex Um as co owner of
Speaker 1: Pacific Calls UM. They do a lot of work with
Speaker 1: us for us UM Over the last i'd say five years,
Speaker 1: five or six years we've we've worked together. We've grown together.
Speaker 1: It's it's been awesome. Um, but I know when to
Speaker 1: wave the white flag and bring in some duck hunting experts,
Speaker 1: some duck call experts. So I'm I'm glad to have
Speaker 1: him here. Um. Yeah. In talking with the local duck
Speaker 1: hunters here, it seems to be a pretty slow, rough start,
Speaker 1: even though as a Western big game hunter, it seems
Speaker 1: like we've got the cold weather. It seems like we've
Speaker 1: got the snow, but evidently the it hasn't been the
Speaker 1: right weather at least down the I five corridor, um
Speaker 1: to bring any ducks. And they said they've they've been
Speaker 1: you know, shooting limits here and there, but it just
Speaker 1: hasn't been as good as it has the past twenty
Speaker 1: years yet. Yeah. No, And I mean we've run into
Speaker 1: a little bit of that, and you know, we're we're
Speaker 1: we're in kind of a different you know, into the
Speaker 1: fly where the cascades really do divide us, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty pretty much. And so, uh we we spent a
Speaker 1: little timing up in Alberta chasing them around, and there
Speaker 1: was there was tons of food, there was a you
Speaker 1: know a fair amount of water for them to hang
Speaker 1: around in. So I think your your guys are probably right.
Speaker 1: They just haven't seen the crazy amount of weather to
Speaker 1: really freeze them out and start pushing them down even
Speaker 1: though it feels like they should be here. I'm guessing there,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe one more real good cold snapper at
Speaker 1: least a long length of time cold snap before we'll
Speaker 1: be into them pretty thick. Yeah, they expect here in
Speaker 1: the next you know, within the next two weeks. We've
Speaker 1: got some cold hitting. Right now, we're supposed to be
Speaker 1: in the you know, the high teens, low twenties for
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, hopefully we'll get a new
Speaker 1: push of birds in here. So um. And you know,
Speaker 1: from a calendar standpoint, that's usually about right for us too.
Speaker 1: In between Thanksgiving and Christmas is when we typically see
Speaker 1: are you know most of the migration you know passed
Speaker 1: through here? Gotcha? It might be on part just maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit slower. So Um, Like we start all
Speaker 1: of these podcasts, we're gonna start with two questions from users.
Speaker 1: And um. The funny thing is, I'm not a prolific
Speaker 1: waterfowl hunter duck hunters, so I had to go dig
Speaker 1: for some of these questions on some of our past posts.
Speaker 1: But if you have a question of your own, UM
Speaker 1: for cutting the distance and my guests, please email us
Speaker 1: at ct D at Phelps game Calls dot com, or
Speaker 1: just go ahead and send over your questions to me
Speaker 1: via message and we'll get them on here. So the
Speaker 1: first question I was able to pull, um, do you
Speaker 1: need decoys the duck hunt? What's your opinion on that?
Speaker 1: I mean, for for myself, yes, but you know, technically
Speaker 1: in most ants, as long as you've got an area
Speaker 1: that the ducks are, you know, coming to, you're not
Speaker 1: necessarily trying to attract them, maybe a small body of
Speaker 1: water or something like that. No, you do not technically
Speaker 1: have to have them. Um, you can also jump shoot
Speaker 1: them legally if you would like. That's not necessarily the
Speaker 1: preferred way to do it. So, I mean, the the
Speaker 1: most like legal answer the question is no, you absolutely
Speaker 1: do not have to have them. But for myself, my
Speaker 1: preferred method of hunting is indeed over decoys. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: and so, like I said, very inexperience went on a
Speaker 1: duck hunt last year. You know, we hunted from boat.
Speaker 1: One time. We had more you know, duck decoys than
Speaker 1: we needed. The entire boat was full. We wrote on
Speaker 1: you know, duck decoys out out there, and so you know,
Speaker 1: one day we set you know, eight dozen decoys. The
Speaker 1: other day we hiked into a spot. You know, you
Speaker 1: carry half a dozen decoys and maybe a jerk rig
Speaker 1: with you. Um, you know in Washington, you know, electric
Speaker 1: rigs are illegal. So we're we're you know, we're creating
Speaker 1: movement with jerk riggs or or does do you do
Speaker 1: you feel what matters do? Do they become more comfortable
Speaker 1: when they see a spread of you know, five dozen ducks,
Speaker 1: you know, ten dozen ducks or just a small group?
Speaker 1: Have you noticed much difference? You know with I'm thinking
Speaker 1: from a perspective of a new duck hunter. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe you only want to buy six twelve see if
Speaker 1: you even like it? Like, are you gonna notice a
Speaker 1: huge difference on you know? I think it honestly depends
Speaker 1: a lot about a lot about where where you're hunting,
Speaker 1: in the situation that you're in as well. Again, like
Speaker 1: my spread almost always is adjusted depending upon where I'm hunting.
Speaker 1: If I have more of an open water kind of scenario,
Speaker 1: I typically go with a you know, with a bigger spread,
Speaker 1: I've got more room. If I'm in a small spread.
Speaker 1: I mean about eighteen is the most that I would
Speaker 1: you know, take, And again it is kind of predicated
Speaker 1: on hey, how many trips you want to make, whether
Speaker 1: you're carrying them, whether you do have a boat, a cart,
Speaker 1: anything along those lines. So I don't think there really
Speaker 1: is necessarily a magic number, um, you know, but I
Speaker 1: can tell you the idea of I'll get more ducks
Speaker 1: if I just have more decoys is definitely a fallacy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and like I said, I'm coming from a very
Speaker 1: elementary point of view here, and so I'm just observing
Speaker 1: when I'm seeing it seemed like the number one thing.
Speaker 1: And we'll probably get into that here in a little bit.
Speaker 1: Is like just being on the location was more important
Speaker 1: than than you know, how many ducks. And we we
Speaker 1: had seen that this corner was loaded up with ducks
Speaker 1: the day before we go sit on it, and of
Speaker 1: course the ducks just want to be there anyway, So
Speaker 1: it made made our lives easier. And I'm gonna expand
Speaker 1: a little bit on this question, um, which kind of
Speaker 1: surprised me, is is like the jerk riggs and the
Speaker 1: movement on on some of these decoys as we're sitting
Speaker 1: there you know, ducks are approaching from above, They've got
Speaker 1: great eyesight, and all of a sudden, you know, I
Speaker 1: need to be moving my arm and pulling this thing,
Speaker 1: you know, three ft each way. Um is that typical? Like, well,
Speaker 1: these ducks, as long as they're focused on movement on
Speaker 1: the water, let you away with some of the extra movement.
Speaker 1: Like to me, is a big game hunter. Like the
Speaker 1: last thing I want to do is something approaches is
Speaker 1: like start waving my arm around. Um, you know, no,
Speaker 1: regardless how well I think I'm covered up front, like
Speaker 1: they're above me, like I assume they could see me,
Speaker 1: you know, correct, I mean we we always have that,
Speaker 1: you know that that mantra whatever you want to try
Speaker 1: to minimize movement in the blind but maximize movement on
Speaker 1: the water. And so you know, we're we're very much
Speaker 1: so in tune as far as trying to make sure
Speaker 1: that we've got a correct hide. You know, you want
Speaker 1: to have stuff of covering over the top of you.
Speaker 1: And you know, in some ways ducks are the easier
Speaker 1: is not the correct word as far as that goes,
Speaker 1: but your your movements and the attraction level that you're at,
Speaker 1: your kind of way more separated from them, and so
Speaker 1: you can get away with a little bit more than
Speaker 1: you can in like a big game scenario. But we
Speaker 1: certainly do our best to try to make sure that
Speaker 1: we are covered up, faces are down, nothing bright and glaring,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you know, you try to minimize as little
Speaker 1: movement as you possibly can. Yeah, and we're gonna try
Speaker 1: to focus this on duck. But I know I got
Speaker 1: to hunt with you know, the the co owner Pacific
Speaker 1: calls your partner there, Trevor Um geese hunting and like it.
Speaker 1: You know, we've got to be so still inside this
Speaker 1: blind like not no face showing. But yet when the
Speaker 1: geese are coming into the field, somebody's allowed to jump
Speaker 1: out with this big white flag and like wave it around.
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, I'm confused. I don't know what
Speaker 1: you're allowed to do. I don't know what what what's good,
Speaker 1: what's bad? But it just you know, is is me
Speaker 1: trying to wrap my head or I don't have to
Speaker 1: have to laugh about like what you can get away
Speaker 1: with yet what you can't get away with, um is
Speaker 1: these water fowler approach and so um this when you're
Speaker 1: you're going to run into that, Yeah, this one will
Speaker 1: tie right into um, you know, the event that was
Speaker 1: last weekend, the World Duck Calling Championships, and then kind
Speaker 1: of what we do on the duck calling side. How
Speaker 1: good of a duck caller do you need to be
Speaker 1: to be effective? Is there is a there a threshold
Speaker 1: you need to be at least as good to kill
Speaker 1: any ducks? You know, if you're better, you'll call it
Speaker 1: more like in your opinion. Um, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of these guys get to you know, everybody you get
Speaker 1: to listen to on social media. You know typically is
Speaker 1: a good duck color, maybe way a better you know,
Speaker 1: way better than average. And so I think a lot
Speaker 1: of these people that are you know, sometimes timid or
Speaker 1: don't even want to blow on a duck call when
Speaker 1: they get out there. But you know how good you
Speaker 1: have to be to be effective in it for for
Speaker 1: it to work? I mean realistically, not you know, not incredibly.
Speaker 1: The entire idea of the call is to get their attention,
Speaker 1: to add a little bit level of realism into the hunt.
Speaker 1: And so if you are in a situation where you
Speaker 1: know it's a quiet body of water or something along
Speaker 1: those lines, one of the more effective calls that you
Speaker 1: can have in your ourson, believe it or not, is
Speaker 1: actually a little whistle, you know, just doing a drake
Speaker 1: whistle or a teal whistle or a widgeon or something
Speaker 1: along those lines. And that's that takes very very little
Speaker 1: skill level to operate. And I'm glad you mentioned something
Speaker 1: like worlds because if anybody paid attention to worlds, that
Speaker 1: is not a competition in which you're you know, attempting
Speaker 1: to actually you know, call ducks like you'd hunt them.
Speaker 1: That is, that is an operator contest to prove that
Speaker 1: you can you know, run a call from the absolute
Speaker 1: highest echelon, that it can be ran at all the
Speaker 1: way down to the lowest. So there's you know a
Speaker 1: little bit of a caveat with that. But as far
Speaker 1: as in the field goes, I would say the effective
Speaker 1: side of it, or the level that you need to
Speaker 1: be at is um If you can make realistic, simple noises,
Speaker 1: the duck calls going to benefit your hunt as opposed
Speaker 1: to not benefit the hunt. And you know, being in
Speaker 1: the water fall sphere with a lot of guys going
Speaker 1: to trade shows doing that, the worst thing that someone
Speaker 1: does is they try to, you know, run before they
Speaker 1: can walk. A basic quack a simple chatter, um, you know,
Speaker 1: and like maybe a three or five note sequence is
Speaker 1: really all that you you know, technically need in order
Speaker 1: to you know, get results or help produce results if
Speaker 1: you're trying to you know, do twenty note highballs and
Speaker 1: machine gun feeds and all this other stuff. That's like
Speaker 1: that's just not that effective in the field to begin with,
Speaker 1: and not to mention you don't have the skill level
Speaker 1: to pull it off. It's just you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: a lose lose. You're you're doing more harm than good
Speaker 1: at the point where you're trying to make all these sounds.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's not effective or not natural. Um that
Speaker 1: that makes a ton of sounds. We see that. We
Speaker 1: see it on the all the competition stage, you know,
Speaker 1: on ELK as well, Like we make a bunch of
Speaker 1: you know, sounds up there that it's like I never
Speaker 1: make in the woods when I'm trying to call a
Speaker 1: bowl in or you know, it's just it's no for
Speaker 1: the for the stage only is to prove that you're
Speaker 1: able to you know run a call in its you know,
Speaker 1: high capacity or you know, just just do things that
Speaker 1: other people just can't simply do. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's the duck calling has kind of that same that
Speaker 1: same aspect. Yeah. Well, well I've got a bunch of
Speaker 1: other questions on duck calls. What will save those um
Speaker 1: towards the end. But that's gonna wrap it up for
Speaker 1: the for the Q and A section. Once again, if
Speaker 1: you have any questions of your own, please email us
Speaker 1: at ct D at Phelps Game Calls and will make
Speaker 1: sure to get your question up and get answered either
Speaker 1: by myself or our guests. Now we're gonna jump into
Speaker 1: some of the duck hunting and duck hunting or duck
Speaker 1: call questions that I have, UM, so I would consider
Speaker 1: myself here. I have got to go out in the field,
Speaker 1: you know, four or five times and got to see
Speaker 1: from you know, people that know what they're doing, um,
Speaker 1: kind of what they've got. But I want to break
Speaker 1: this down on what what are the absolutes, like what
Speaker 1: does a New waterfell hunter need um to go chase
Speaker 1: ducks versus what are you know, maybe what would be
Speaker 1: nice or preferred? And then kind of what are the luxuries?
Speaker 1: I guess, um, you know, me on the outside three
Speaker 1: years ago, never never picking up you know, a shotgun
Speaker 1: to go chase ducks. It's like, well, well my moss
Speaker 1: grow Gate thirty five work? Or do I need to
Speaker 1: have a new Benelli you know, super black Eagle whatever
Speaker 1: that is now two or three or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: And there was a little bit of like is there
Speaker 1: a difference? And so like walk us through that. What
Speaker 1: what you need? What's nice to have? And then what's
Speaker 1: a real luxury? Sure well, I mean, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're if you're gonna do it on a on a
Speaker 1: super super basic level, there's you know, you you have
Speaker 1: to have a shotgun. Um you know, get get gear
Speaker 1: was something warm kind of like big game hunting. You
Speaker 1: want you know, you want to dress for you know,
Speaker 1: the appropriate stuff as far as like it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what the gear is. Absolutely know. My first shotgun was
Speaker 1: an old you know, Remington eight seventy from Walmart, and
Speaker 1: then I thought that I needed, you know, a big
Speaker 1: Bonelli after that and anything else. It turns out that
Speaker 1: whether you shoot with the you know, the the cheap
Speaker 1: pump or the melly, you gotta hit the bird regardless
Speaker 1: to you know, make things happen. I will admit that
Speaker 1: as you get into nicer things, there's some performance factor
Speaker 1: stuff that they you know, tout or you know, tell
Speaker 1: you that you you need and it can help, um,
Speaker 1: but most of it all relies on just your individual
Speaker 1: skill set and so focusing on your ability to you know,
Speaker 1: track bird shoot things like that, it's gonna be way
Speaker 1: more important than the than the gun that's on your shoulder, okay,
Speaker 1: and then other than that, gear wise, I mean, like
Speaker 1: you know, for for myself, uh, starting out, you know,
Speaker 1: I was definitely a you know, a public rat race
Speaker 1: kind of hunter. I had you know, a dozen hot buys, uh,
Speaker 1: set of Cabella's waiters and my snowboarding jacket with my
Speaker 1: you know, with my eight seventy and you can you
Speaker 1: can still get it done. I mean, like it's it is.
Speaker 1: It is a very gear heavy side of the sport
Speaker 1: because we're the guys that run around and you know
Speaker 1: the designer fast and wear Sitka gear and you know
Speaker 1: all the other stuff. And like if I have opt
Speaker 1: to fade on, it means I kill more birds. And
Speaker 1: it's like it definitely is not that way. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's very comfortable. It's nice to have, but it's not
Speaker 1: it's not needed. You can still get it done with
Speaker 1: the same you know, army green wool pants that the
Speaker 1: grandpa had on. Yeah. And then, UM, one of the
Speaker 1: things as a new waterfall hunter that really, um was
Speaker 1: overwhelming for me was like duck identification, because you look like,
Speaker 1: all right, you're in the Pacific fly Away. I can
Speaker 1: shoot one pintail, I can shoot you know two, I
Speaker 1: don't remember what you know, you go through. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's Widgeon or God, God will and these they
Speaker 1: all have limits and and this or that. Um, what
Speaker 1: would be a good resource? Um? You know, because I
Speaker 1: had somebody else calling the shots for me. Towards the
Speaker 1: end of the first day, I got to you know,
Speaker 1: be able to identify pintails and you know Widgeon and
Speaker 1: Teal were you know, I would see him and then
Speaker 1: I wouldn't, and then I be oh, that was a Teal.
Speaker 1: You know, I started to figure things out, you know,
Speaker 1: but UM, like duck identification, a sun in your eyes?
Speaker 1: What's a good resource? And how does somebody gain confidence, um,
Speaker 1: you know in identifying ducts so that you don't you
Speaker 1: don't have that fear or worry of going out there
Speaker 1: and you know, you know, shoot the wrong limit. And
Speaker 1: I mean you know, do you take a fair amount
Speaker 1: of people out and you're doing the same thing. And
Speaker 1: I can't stress enough that you know, even as a
Speaker 1: new waterfowl hunter, um, you know, doing your research as
Speaker 1: far as you know what the what your local state
Speaker 1: provides you with regulations. Most of the time they do have,
Speaker 1: you know, pictures and things like that, but Google, um,
Speaker 1: you know, any type of Internet source to try to
Speaker 1: find and be better at identifying birds is is huge.
Speaker 1: The other side of it is time in the field.
Speaker 1: There's a patience factor that it takes to learn how
Speaker 1: to identify birds and do things. And if you don't
Speaker 1: know what it is, you shouldn't be shooting it regardless.
Speaker 1: So even if you are missing your limit opportunity to
Speaker 1: literally have a bird come in and say I think
Speaker 1: that's a pintail and then let it go by and go, yep,
Speaker 1: that was a pintail, that's a better a better approach
Speaker 1: to what you're doing instead of just shoot it and
Speaker 1: I thought it was a pintail and it turns out
Speaker 1: it was. And so you know, for for myself and
Speaker 1: even when we're taking other people there, we don't have
Speaker 1: the answers all the time. But if you can you know,
Speaker 1: kind of learn to get that patience factor in it.
Speaker 1: More than likely that bird is gonna come by again
Speaker 1: and you'll get another crack at it. But until you
Speaker 1: can positively identify what that bird is. Um. You know.
Speaker 1: My my recommendation to a new guys to just be patient.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be able to figure it out over and
Speaker 1: over and over again as you see them over and
Speaker 1: over and over again. But don't don't jump the gun
Speaker 1: and shoot something that you shouldn't. Yeah. Um, and then
Speaker 1: there's a new waterfall hunter. One of the things I'm
Speaker 1: this is fresh my mind because all the stuff doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense to me, is like, all right, you gotta
Speaker 1: get a migratory bird on your license, and then you
Speaker 1: got to buy a duck stamp. And I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: you can't get a duck stamp if you want to
Speaker 1: go hunting, you know, this weekend. And so like, there
Speaker 1: are some states like I think I'm able to jump,
Speaker 1: like on Wyoming since already had like a big game license,
Speaker 1: I was able to get like an E stamp, you know,
Speaker 1: through the state of Wyoming, because I don't believe I
Speaker 1: could get one from Washington that quickly. Um, so no,
Speaker 1: what I mean, like it kind of depends on so
Speaker 1: of the hierarchies there and so like for instance, in
Speaker 1: Washington State, which is where I'm a resident of, I
Speaker 1: am required to purchase my small game license. I'm report
Speaker 1: required to purchase my migratory bird. Um. I believe they
Speaker 1: call it endorsement. I don't know if that terms correct
Speaker 1: there for Washington State. And then at the federal level,
Speaker 1: I have my duck stamp. So if I have one
Speaker 1: duck stamp that I bought for Washington State, that federal
Speaker 1: duck stamp is good for all of the states there,
Speaker 1: and then the each individual states whether I go to
Speaker 1: Missouri or you know, any of the other places that
Speaker 1: we travel to quite often, I may have to buy
Speaker 1: a migratory validation for that individual state. But at the
Speaker 1: federal level, by having the duck stamp, I've met that requirement. Gotcha.
Speaker 1: That makes that makes more sense. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I was just you know, my my duck hunts are
Speaker 1: usually somebody calls me on Thursday night like do you
Speaker 1: want to go on Saturday? And I'm like, well, I can't,
Speaker 1: you know, so then you're scrambling an East stamp. But
Speaker 1: but it works out and you can get you can
Speaker 1: get the East stamps, get them there, you know, print
Speaker 1: them out. What they're really after is did you you know,
Speaker 1: did you put into the you know, the federal fund,
Speaker 1: whether or not you have the stamp there. It goes
Speaker 1: back and forth some I think Now, if I'm not
Speaker 1: not mistaken, you don't even have to deface them anymore.
Speaker 1: They don't require you to sign them and you know
Speaker 1: have them, Um, you can just put it on your
Speaker 1: license or do whatever. But yep, that the that federal stamp.
Speaker 1: Man I've I've done on a few different times where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh crap, can you go to the post
Speaker 1: office and go find me those? Because they're out at
Speaker 1: Sportsman's and so you know we've been running around all
Speaker 1: over hell trying to find them. Gotcha. So uh we
Speaker 1: touched on a little bit in the Q and A. UM,
Speaker 1: but in my limited experience, you know, you're the blind
Speaker 1: locations are being on the X and you know, and
Speaker 1: this is public land. You know a lot of people
Speaker 1: probably get to go out to their private pawn, private lake,
Speaker 1: private edge, um, and they just know where they need
Speaker 1: to be. But you know, my my first entry to
Speaker 1: Duck hunting was you know, potholes there in Moses Lake, UM,
Speaker 1: you know last year, and you know it's public water. UM,
Speaker 1: everything's wide open. Any and so we spent the first
Speaker 1: day scouting UM. And as I mentioned earlier, UM, you
Speaker 1: know your blind location or being on the x UM
Speaker 1: maybe seems at least to me, seems to be more
Speaker 1: important than anything. UM. Can you confirm that? And you
Speaker 1: had mentioned it earlier? But what goes into finding? You know,
Speaker 1: what do what do the ducks want? You know, how
Speaker 1: does the wind affect that location? What are you looking for?
Speaker 1: Because like some of the stuff like I, oh, a
Speaker 1: bird can't smell what's the wind? Matter? But I realized
Speaker 1: really quickly, like when you know in a certain direction mattered? UM,
Speaker 1: kind of go through all that. What's the ideal blind
Speaker 1: set up cover? Um? And then we'll go what factors
Speaker 1: go into picking that spot? Sure? Well, I mean you
Speaker 1: you did hit the nail on the head. Location is
Speaker 1: you know, absolutely the number one deal. I can go
Speaker 1: to my parking lot and set up all my decoys
Speaker 1: and call all I want, but I'm still not going
Speaker 1: to get a bird there. And so like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: have to make sure that you're in an area that
Speaker 1: does have you know, it does have birds in it,
Speaker 1: and so the scouting is absolutely huge. We spend more
Speaker 1: time scouting than we do hunting. We'll check a field
Speaker 1: to three four days in advance of a hunt. If
Speaker 1: we find something, we'll usually watch it build for a day. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, we spend more time looking through the binos
Speaker 1: than we do actually out in the field. Pull the
Speaker 1: trigger now it A lot of our stuff is indeed,
Speaker 1: you know, field hun thing. Um you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: patterning birds and doing things a little different. Whereas like
Speaker 1: potholes are you know, a public waterway, it's more about
Speaker 1: whether or not there's just birds in the general area.
Speaker 1: And then you have to try to find a way
Speaker 1: to um, you know, meet the meet the criteria that
Speaker 1: you want and so um to answer to the other
Speaker 1: side of the question blind location, things like that. A
Speaker 1: lot of the times in a public hunting scenario, you're
Speaker 1: just kind of stuck with what you're given. And so
Speaker 1: even if the wind is not perfect, the sun is
Speaker 1: not perfect, you've got to try to find a way
Speaker 1: to make it work for you. UM. For myself, I
Speaker 1: always try to make sure that the wind is coming,
Speaker 1: you know, over my back, um, and that way the
Speaker 1: birds are forced more to land with the wind and
Speaker 1: coming into me for an easier, easier shot. And that's
Speaker 1: really where the wind direction comes in for big game.
Speaker 1: I know you want the wind kind of going the
Speaker 1: other way, so the animal doesn't you know, smell you
Speaker 1: or like take off of you. Like you said, I
Speaker 1: don't think the birds can smell me. I think there's
Speaker 1: research on whether they can smell or not. But you know,
Speaker 1: for for me, I'm more worried about if the wind's
Speaker 1: going this way, the bird is more likely to follow
Speaker 1: this fly path, and so I'll try to set up
Speaker 1: my blind to shoot a certain way based on the wind,
Speaker 1: and then also set my decoys and spread based upon
Speaker 1: that wind. And then you know, as the hunt progresses,
Speaker 1: you you may have to adjust that and to get
Speaker 1: them to all to line up perfectly. Where you got
Speaker 1: the sun at your back, the wind at your back,
Speaker 1: your decoys in the right spot, and birds in the area.
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's that you gotta count your buy a
Speaker 1: lot of ticket that day. Yeah, and you you alluded
Speaker 1: to one thing which was kind of surprising. Um, we
Speaker 1: went over there and we spent the entire first day scouting.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I just assumed duck hunters go sit on
Speaker 1: the water somewhere and you start quacking on a call
Speaker 1: and they're eventually gonna, you know, show up to you.
Speaker 1: So we we spent the morning lasting where the ducks
Speaker 1: wanted to be, Like where are we seeing the most
Speaker 1: amount of duck sitting on the water. UM. Gathered all
Speaker 1: that information and then we were hunting from a boat
Speaker 1: to get to these locations. Went around on the boat,
Speaker 1: and then we drove the boat. You know, we we
Speaker 1: used on X. We we knew what corner it was
Speaker 1: on your potholes. It's kind of crazycause there's water everywhere
Speaker 1: and you don't know which turns which or what corners
Speaker 1: which corner. So we we all confirm and then we
Speaker 1: drive the boat out there, UM through that section of water,
Speaker 1: UM looking for where are we going to set up where?
Speaker 1: You know, do we have natural cover? Do we need
Speaker 1: to bring in and make a blind? Like where can
Speaker 1: we park the boat? Um? All of this stuff starts
Speaker 1: the matter, and we we got to a spot where
Speaker 1: we figured we had enough uh you know, natural cover.
Speaker 1: We had a pretty a pretty good probably a thirty
Speaker 1: or forty ft rise across from us, so the birds
Speaker 1: that were flying on the water didn't see are set
Speaker 1: up until they were there, So it's kind of just
Speaker 1: naturally they were gonna fly by there anyways. Um. And
Speaker 1: then we had pretty good open water behind us on
Speaker 1: the on the big water, so we could let our
Speaker 1: calls ring, and so you know, some of these things
Speaker 1: added up and it was you know, I think we
Speaker 1: had limited out by by midday, and so it was
Speaker 1: a good hunt. But I started to notice like it
Speaker 1: was more about that spot because potholes, public land, lots
Speaker 1: of people hunting it, you know, near the holidays, and
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and maybe a you know, good callers
Speaker 1: or too many good callers, but you would just see
Speaker 1: birds flying over and the call didn't really seem to
Speaker 1: do anything. It was just there were because you would
Speaker 1: you could hear the guys, you know, the next blind over.
Speaker 1: They would see the birds slightly after we did, and
Speaker 1: then they would start there they're they're calling sequence and
Speaker 1: then the guy's pass them would see and it was
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like all right, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, and maybe maybe it's a skewed opinion based
Speaker 1: on on the situation we were given, But man, you
Speaker 1: just want to be where those ducks want to be
Speaker 1: and you know, blow on the call, get them to
Speaker 1: recognize your spread, and then that's really what matters, not
Speaker 1: necessarily you know, how good you can call, how loud
Speaker 1: you can call, any of that stuff. Those birds were
Speaker 1: going to where they wanted to be. Anyways, Yeah, correct,
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, it does depend on the
Speaker 1: situation and where you're at. I mean, obviously the battle
Speaker 1: is just being where you know, where the birds want
Speaker 1: to be. After that, now we're starting to get into
Speaker 1: the subtleties. Are they responding to the call or they
Speaker 1: not do even need to call, or they just drop
Speaker 1: in right in Like it sort of depends where you're at.
Speaker 1: We also, you don't hunt situations where we call it
Speaker 1: running traffick, where you're you know, putting yourself in a
Speaker 1: flyway where they're they're flying over the top of you.
Speaker 1: You know, they're going somewhere else and you're just making
Speaker 1: as much noise and trying to be as crazy as possible.
Speaker 1: Are gonna be like, oh wait, no, the party's over here,
Speaker 1: it's not over there, and then they you know, line
Speaker 1: line up and run you. So depending upon the situation
Speaker 1: that you're in. Sometimes the calling works, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1: And yeah, in in a place like potholes, and those
Speaker 1: birds here, every person from every side of the state
Speaker 1: blowing at them from every corner there. You know, I
Speaker 1: think my philosophy on potholes for a while was like,
Speaker 1: if I just leave my calls in the boat, I'm
Speaker 1: probably gonna be more successful because everybody else already call
Speaker 1: at them. Yeah, and on that one, not knowing like
Speaker 1: you know, whether we sit here all day or whether
Speaker 1: we move. We kept seeing all these birds hit water
Speaker 1: probably a half mile kind of back to us, to
Speaker 1: the right, and then no gunshots. And we're like, we
Speaker 1: know that there's a million hunters on the water, there
Speaker 1: just must not be hunters on that and so we
Speaker 1: use that information. We went and took a half mile
Speaker 1: three quarters three quarters of a mile hike through the
Speaker 1: bridge USh and went and found where all these birds
Speaker 1: were landing. And then you know, adjusted are set up
Speaker 1: for the next day. Um, you know, just just to
Speaker 1: be where those birds wanted to be. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously you're getting bumped out of all the spots with
Speaker 1: all the blinds and everybody else hunting. Um, So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just I think, you know, all hunting in general,
Speaker 1: whether it's a big game, whether it's predator, like just
Speaker 1: being a smart hunter and realizing, like, let's not force
Speaker 1: the issue on the on the spot or the exit
Speaker 1: we're hunting like they obviously want to be over there.
Speaker 1: Let's let's move our set up the next day that evening,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, um, and go to the ducks
Speaker 1: and not make the ducks come to us well, and
Speaker 1: I mean public duck hunting, that's always the mantra. You know,
Speaker 1: no matter what you do, you have to be able
Speaker 1: to pivot and be flexible and you know, move when
Speaker 1: something's not working, something's not going your way. You want
Speaker 1: to try to salvage the hunt as much as possible.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, you know, make a switch, pull
Speaker 1: the decoys, move something, go find a different spot. And
Speaker 1: you know also have the same wherewithal one you're gonna
Speaker 1: get up one day and go give it a shot
Speaker 1: and everything looks great, but it's just not your day. Yea, yep. Um,
Speaker 1: So we we were just hunting all day until we
Speaker 1: hit limits. If you had to pick, you know, do
Speaker 1: you prefer a morning and evening or do you just
Speaker 1: are you on that same all day hunt until your
Speaker 1: limit or or do you just say I'm gonna hunt
Speaker 1: from eight to twelve, like is there a better time, um,
Speaker 1: you know in your mind to be out there on
Speaker 1: the water or you know on some in some places
Speaker 1: like Washington were somewhat spoiled where they don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of regulations as far as whether you can hunt
Speaker 1: the evening only hunt, the morning only hunt until a
Speaker 1: certain time. There are other states where you can only
Speaker 1: be in refugees from X amount of time to you know,
Speaker 1: ten thirty to eleven to something like that. And there's
Speaker 1: some states that even regulate that. So you know, for
Speaker 1: us around here, if you're gonna take the day and
Speaker 1: go enjoy it, we typically find a way to spend
Speaker 1: most of the day. Um. But it does depend on
Speaker 1: you know, weather conditions, what what you know, what we're seeing,
Speaker 1: you know, how how things are looking. Because you know,
Speaker 1: if I had a choice, I actually enjoy hunting the
Speaker 1: afternoons more than anything else. Almost the rat race of
Speaker 1: like everybody's racing each other to the boat ramp. The
Speaker 1: craziness is you know gone, and so you're able to
Speaker 1: kind of sneak in on the end and you know
Speaker 1: have maybe not as successful of a shoot, but it's
Speaker 1: a little more relaxed. You don't have to get up
Speaker 1: at you know, one am to get down to potholes
Speaker 1: in time by three to be on the water. You
Speaker 1: set your decoys legally by four and then hold down
Speaker 1: your spot you know, all day. And it's like, man
Speaker 1: at an extra twelve hours to this just to to
Speaker 1: go duck hunting. I'd rather just wait till the afternoon,
Speaker 1: get their roll in and you know, be happy. So
Speaker 1: I'm definitely a I call it it like a fair
Speaker 1: weather you know side of side of duck hunting on
Speaker 1: that one. But you know, my my most successful hunts
Speaker 1: that I can remember, they involved, you know, especially on
Speaker 1: public that that grind, sleeping in the truck at midnight,
Speaker 1: you know, getting on it and just you know going crazy.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm getting old enough now where I appreciate
Speaker 1: sleep more than I do duck meat. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So that was a good segue in you'd mentioned I
Speaker 1: called yourself a fair weather duck hunter. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we we talked about time of day. Do you have
Speaker 1: a preference, you know, do you We saw at least
Speaker 1: on potholes, like a little bit of wind was good,
Speaker 1: you know, still seem to be. They didn't like to
Speaker 1: fly as much one that when it got still there
Speaker 1: in the potholes. Do you have a preference? Do you
Speaker 1: want to rainy, nasty raining sideways? Do you want to
Speaker 1: you know, clear and you know high pressure? Like, what's
Speaker 1: what's the kind of it? For me? When the most
Speaker 1: successful times that the Yeah, the most successful times that
Speaker 1: I've had, you know, out hunting are the ones that
Speaker 1: I remember is the best? Weren't the ones where I
Speaker 1: was you know, soaking freaking wet by eight am and
Speaker 1: it was just miserable, And yeah, sure it's you know,
Speaker 1: everybody's got this like Norman Rockwell idea of you know,
Speaker 1: quintessential duck hunting where it's just pissing cats and dogs
Speaker 1: and the ladies looking over at the guy like what
Speaker 1: the hell are we doing out here? Um? You know,
Speaker 1: for me, clear and cold is has always been, you know,
Speaker 1: a better, a better way for me to hunt. I
Speaker 1: I like hunting on um. You know, some people like
Speaker 1: blue bird days so to speak, but like when the
Speaker 1: sun's out, bird identification is a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: easier for myself in my own opinion, I think the
Speaker 1: sun helps create some shadows that can also help hide
Speaker 1: me better, especially if I have the sun in the
Speaker 1: correct location. It can also like show my face and
Speaker 1: everything a lot better if it's not in the right spot.
Speaker 1: So it is, you know, a bit of a catch
Speaker 1: twenty two. But for myself personally, my favorite way to
Speaker 1: hunt is absolutely you know, Christine, clear and cold, and
Speaker 1: I do like at least maybe like a five to
Speaker 1: seven mile an hour sustained wind just so there's a
Speaker 1: little bit of ripple on the water and it gives
Speaker 1: you know, the spread some direction. It just kind of
Speaker 1: helps set a little bit of an edge on the hunt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know my location, I'm a I'm thirty minutes
Speaker 1: away from the Pacific Ocean harbors, you know, Gray's Harbor,
Speaker 1: Willipa Harbor, And I think that's one of the biggest,
Speaker 1: like one of the reasons I absolutely never wanted to go, Honey.
Speaker 1: I got asked all the way from high school and
Speaker 1: you want to go you know, combined goose duck hunt,
Speaker 1: and I'm like no. And the reason why is they
Speaker 1: wouldn't go unless the wind was bowing forty mile an
Speaker 1: hour and the rain was hit in the side of
Speaker 1: the face. That made the good good waterfall. You know,
Speaker 1: hunting weather around here, and that sounds like zero fund
Speaker 1: to go up, you know, go set up your decoys,
Speaker 1: go set everything up in the dark, sit there and
Speaker 1: get soaked and freeze that. You know, So I I'd
Speaker 1: always looked at that, but you know, we went, we
Speaker 1: went over to the east side and you know, similar
Speaker 1: to your mentioning, you know, blue bird days with a
Speaker 1: little bit of wind, and it was pretty enjoyable. You
Speaker 1: stayed warm, and uh, I could get used to that
Speaker 1: a whole lot quicker than I could, you know, getting
Speaker 1: poured on out on the coast. Well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I've been on I've been on
Speaker 1: hunts that are that same way, where it's it's just
Speaker 1: miserable and you know, there's nothing flying. And you know,
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, if we only had some weather,
Speaker 1: you know, and you're like, you can you can point
Speaker 1: your finger at one way or another, you know what
Speaker 1: what worked, what didn't. And I mean there's been a
Speaker 1: couple of them that have been on, like in Kansas
Speaker 1: or some of the others where it's exactly the situation
Speaker 1: you're talking about I was in California one time and
Speaker 1: not a joke. We it was when the Auraville damn
Speaker 1: was gonna was gonna flood and we were down there
Speaker 1: in the floodplain. It was raining. I think it rained
Speaker 1: two and a half inches in four hours. Like it
Speaker 1: was just absolutely nuts. But same thing, fifty five winds
Speaker 1: and I think we shot a hundred and forty five
Speaker 1: snows and specs in our group. But it was the
Speaker 1: most miserable day I've ever been out hunting. But man,
Speaker 1: we got some shooting in it was it was cool.
Speaker 1: So I just I just didn't like literally ringing out
Speaker 1: my underwear before I got in the truck, like this
Speaker 1: is this is dumb. I might as well have gone staying. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the duck hunting was great. That the enjoyment factor was
Speaker 1: was pretty low. It sounds like on on one of
Speaker 1: those yep, exactly. Now we're gonna kind of jump into
Speaker 1: the calls. Um, I'm gonna have you on the spot,
Speaker 1: give us kind of a five minute, quick and dirty
Speaker 1: version on the history of duck calls. You know, from
Speaker 1: where they started kind of where we're at today. And
Speaker 1: some people might be surprised at the history of duck calls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in in all, honestly, a lot
Speaker 1: of most of the like duck calling. If you were
Speaker 1: looking up as far as when the first patent was filed,
Speaker 1: I believe it was in the late eighteen hundreds. But
Speaker 1: you know, duck calling as we know it now, really
Speaker 1: duck calls and duck calling so to speak, really did
Speaker 1: take off until you know, realistically right after the right
Speaker 1: after the Second World War. I mean, you know, forty
Speaker 1: five you had Chick Majors and a couple of the
Speaker 1: other guys out there. Um, you know ps Olt, he's
Speaker 1: been around for a long time out of Peaking, Illinois.
Speaker 1: I think they were a hundred year old duck call company. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's been a you know, a rich
Speaker 1: history as far as the last hundred to a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty five years or so really is where you know,
Speaker 1: duck calls and how they progressed have have pretty much
Speaker 1: been at um, you know, fortunately, and where we're at now.
Speaker 1: Sure we've gotten some advances as far as things like
Speaker 1: materials you know, and stuff like that, but the technology
Speaker 1: itself as far as you know, whether it's a J
Speaker 1: frame or a real foot or a Louisiana style board.
Speaker 1: All of those terms and designs are still very much
Speaker 1: so in play to day. And so you know, as
Speaker 1: far as what's the newest, latest and greatest thing in
Speaker 1: duck calls, you're you know, you're looking at guys that
Speaker 1: are just tweaking and perfecting and you know, changing the
Speaker 1: performance factor of designs, and you know, uh, and aspects
Speaker 1: that have been around now for you know, a hundred
Speaker 1: plus years got you and and we're gonna we'll touch
Speaker 1: into what goes into designing a call. And one thing
Speaker 1: I want to kind of preface this and you can
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong from a duck call standpoint,
Speaker 1: but but what we've realized is whether it's an external
Speaker 1: elk call, whether it's a deer call, whether it's a
Speaker 1: duck call, when you're using what typically is a piece
Speaker 1: of milar that's cut to a shape with a certain
Speaker 1: weight in order to get any of these sounds, it's
Speaker 1: it's basically vibration, oh, a piece of milar, whether it's
Speaker 1: ten mill um, whether it's fourteen mill whether it's a
Speaker 1: short board, what you know, whatever it may be. You know,
Speaker 1: a goose call uses a fourteen mill short read. Um,
Speaker 1: all we're doing is asking this piece of milar to
Speaker 1: vibrate over a a certain radius, a specified radius. Whether
Speaker 1: you know a predator board is going to have a
Speaker 1: tighter you know, I'm gonna throw a number out there
Speaker 1: at two two and a half inch radius, and a
Speaker 1: deer call may have a sit you know, whatever it
Speaker 1: may be, it's longer. Um, we're playing with the weights
Speaker 1: on the reads. But when we go to design these
Speaker 1: type of calls, UM, we're looking at radius. We're looking
Speaker 1: at my lar shape, thickness, We're looking at what the
Speaker 1: tone channel with and depth because that gives us a
Speaker 1: volume of air that can pass under that milar read.
Speaker 1: You're looking at your bars. So UM, kind of walk
Speaker 1: us through that. That's kind of a generality of all
Speaker 1: calls that use a piece of vibrating milar. And it's
Speaker 1: crazy to think, you know, you take what are easy
Speaker 1: estrius or even all the way down to our our
Speaker 1: little young and calf call, we're taking a skinnier, thinner
Speaker 1: piece and changing its length so you get a very
Speaker 1: high frequency buzz, you know, all the way up to hurts.
Speaker 1: So you're able to get those elk tones and then
Speaker 1: you're able to really take a duck or even more.
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, like a buck grunt, you're
Speaker 1: able to vibrate that read very very slow, and you're
Speaker 1: really hearing. The oscillation of that read is what's giving
Speaker 1: you know, it's not a high pitch, so you're able
Speaker 1: to do the extremes from a butt grunt all the
Speaker 1: way to an elk you know, calf mew um. Why
Speaker 1: we're on duck calls, kind of go go through and
Speaker 1: explain to us, you know how you know, there's a
Speaker 1: little more to duck calls. We do look at it
Speaker 1: on the alt call side, but there's like, you know,
Speaker 1: volume in your barrel, whether you're gonna taper the barrel,
Speaker 1: whether you know, because that's going to affect how much
Speaker 1: the call loads up. You're gonna backboard the barrel, you know,
Speaker 1: affects your volume. So I've kind of spoiled it. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I let's say, man, you answered a lot right off
Speaker 1: the right off to shoot. Good for you, but you've
Speaker 1: been paying attention. No, there's a I mean the simplest
Speaker 1: way to put is pretty much in a duck call
Speaker 1: sphere or even a goose call sphere, everything affects everything,
Speaker 1: whether or not you have the answers to exactly how
Speaker 1: much you need to do to get what you're looking for.
Speaker 1: That's a you know, that's a different subject. And you
Speaker 1: know end user and how people blow things. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's really where it's at. But you know, to
Speaker 1: to try to put something to like spin it like
Speaker 1: a basic I would understand it. I typically a tune,
Speaker 1: you know, anything to do with the duck call, very
Speaker 1: similar to like you know, a guitar. The looser that
Speaker 1: you make at sure, the you know, the sloppy or
Speaker 1: the vibration, the more buzz, the more everything that you
Speaker 1: get out of it. And it's the same thing you
Speaker 1: know with a duck call on the radius is that
Speaker 1: you're talking about. If you put too much slope on it,
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like a duck. The reed doesn't vibrate
Speaker 1: fast enough, and you've you know, built up a buck
Speaker 1: grunt or something else. And so you're you're trying to find,
Speaker 1: you know, a way to as you mentioned, take different
Speaker 1: ways of mile, are different lengths, different cuts, different wits
Speaker 1: and apply those within you know, dimensions that make sense
Speaker 1: for the you know, the part that you're making. But yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, it's it's it's infinite possibilities
Speaker 1: as far as whether or not you're using you know,
Speaker 1: a quarter inch tone channel, a six millimeter tone channel,
Speaker 1: whether you're you know, going all the way up to
Speaker 1: seventeen sixty fource, and like you can do so much
Speaker 1: different stuff within that sphere that you know, you might
Speaker 1: accidentally end up pushing like a J frame design into
Speaker 1: something of like a cutdown design or you know, like
Speaker 1: it it just sort of moves as you know, as
Speaker 1: we do in you know, in the marketplace, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna start you know, pushing boundaries one way or the other.
Speaker 1: And that's how we you know, come up with different
Speaker 1: ideas to make calls operate. Yeah, and uh so I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna kind of throw some terminology out there. Um
Speaker 1: you know, I know what they mean a little bit,
Speaker 1: not to the extent you do. But you know, when
Speaker 1: I was getting into you know, five years ago, and
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like, oh, you gotta have a
Speaker 1: duck call in your lineup, and it's like, uh okay,
Speaker 1: Like I understand, as I mentioned earlier, I understand like
Speaker 1: how miler vibrates. I can look at duck call inserts,
Speaker 1: you know, aside from you know, putting one of the
Speaker 1: popular like echo inserts in my first calls to you,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Alex, I gotta like help me understand this,
Speaker 1: like help me understand the process, um, you know. And
Speaker 1: so we started to walk walk through, you know, and
Speaker 1: so it was like, oh, well, open water versus timber,
Speaker 1: double versus single. Um, I think some of these and
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. Some of these names have
Speaker 1: been put on a call just because of maybe the
Speaker 1: way it leans a little bit like oh, it's a
Speaker 1: louder call, like it's more of an open water call
Speaker 1: versus like, oh it's a quieter call. It's gonna you know,
Speaker 1: it gets labeled a timber or you know, um kind
Speaker 1: of explain you know, singles versus doubles, open versus timber,
Speaker 1: and then we'll kind of jump into some other questions
Speaker 1: based off of that. Sure well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: like very much so in in the duck call sphere,
Speaker 1: it's like anything else, right, Like if you just go
Speaker 1: to lows and say screw driver, like there's endless possibilities,
Speaker 1: and duck calls definitely fall into you know, that same
Speaker 1: way and so you've got you know, a little bit
Speaker 1: of situational kind of stuff that you want to do
Speaker 1: with duck call and try to match that with what
Speaker 1: that company's you know, marketing as far as like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: it's an open water call. Well, if you were to
Speaker 1: compare my open water call to say Echoes or somebody else's,
Speaker 1: you could probably find some dissimilarities and some also similarities
Speaker 1: between the two. But the you know, the common nomenclature
Speaker 1: on something like if you were to say an open
Speaker 1: water call typically means that it's got a much more
Speaker 1: open backboard in it, so you can push more air
Speaker 1: through it and create more volume, whereas something in a
Speaker 1: timber style is usually choked down a little bit so
Speaker 1: it's not as loud um, you know. And that's that's
Speaker 1: really where it comes into the situations that you're hunting
Speaker 1: and what tool do you need to do the job?
Speaker 1: You know, where you're where you're at, Because if you're
Speaker 1: on the Columbia River and you're trying to was like,
Speaker 1: for instance, you know, the hive in my lineup is
Speaker 1: my softest running double read. Well, if you're in a
Speaker 1: wide open, you know area and you you're trying to
Speaker 1: produce volume. That's not the call that you want to
Speaker 1: use as far as you know, doing what you want.
Speaker 1: So you know, making sure that you have the right
Speaker 1: call for the right job, you know, is pretty important.
Speaker 1: And you know, I can tell you as a manufacturer
Speaker 1: doing this, a lot of calls do gravitate towards the
Speaker 1: middle because we want to try to find something that
Speaker 1: is a user friendly and be very you know, versatile.
Speaker 1: I know we talked about it, but like these things
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily just cheap. You're not gonna go out and
Speaker 1: spend you know, only five dollars and get what you want.
Speaker 1: Most waterfowl calls or upwards of a hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: to a you know, a hundred and forty dollars at
Speaker 1: a whack, And so you want to try to find
Speaker 1: a way to get the most bang for your buck,
Speaker 1: which typically means you're finding something that operates right down
Speaker 1: the center. So you avoid things like a wide open
Speaker 1: water calls or like way to timber re calls unless
Speaker 1: if you know, you need that tool for that job.
Speaker 1: Got you. Um, so it was a new caller going in,
Speaker 1: what would be a recommendation. I know everybody's you know,
Speaker 1: I told people the same thing on the olt call side, like, well,
Speaker 1: just because you're a new color doesn't mean you don't blow.
Speaker 1: Like you know, you've been doing this for thirty years.
Speaker 1: You might blow with a ton of air and a
Speaker 1: ton of effort versus So new color is not always
Speaker 1: the right thing. But what would you recommend a new caller, Like,
Speaker 1: if they're looking at a call, are they looking at
Speaker 1: a double read open water because it's got a are
Speaker 1: are what would you recommend as far as like new color,
Speaker 1: getting into um duck calling so they can gain confidence
Speaker 1: and you know, make duck sounds to get going. You know,
Speaker 1: in in most cases, you know, picking up something that
Speaker 1: is you know, advertised from that manufacturer, as they're all
Speaker 1: around duck call is typically typically a better a better
Speaker 1: solution for you know, a beginning duck hunter. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I can only speak to you know, kind of what's
Speaker 1: in my lineup and you know how how we do
Speaker 1: things around here. Whereas like you know, materials, price, things
Speaker 1: like that shouldn't necessarily be a big factor, you know
Speaker 1: in your decision. I mean everybody's got you know, a
Speaker 1: budget as far as that goes, and I produce you know,
Speaker 1: polycarb calls that are twenty dollars all the way up
Speaker 1: to you know, fancy wooden acrylic ones that are you know,
Speaker 1: upwards of two more. And so you know, whatever you're
Speaker 1: comfortable within your budget getting is really you know the
Speaker 1: answer of you know what called should you get? Um?
Speaker 1: But in most cases you're gonna find, you know, at
Speaker 1: a a good running single or double read, whichever one
Speaker 1: you know personal preference. And we'll get into that a
Speaker 1: little bit on why you choose one or the other,
Speaker 1: but um, which one's gonna fitch you? What materials that
Speaker 1: you like because those materials are gonna you know, cost
Speaker 1: you less more. Um, you know, whichever way you want
Speaker 1: to go about it. Yeah, and um new color versus
Speaker 1: experience you know you had five years ago we had
Speaker 1: came out with a single and a double read, you know,
Speaker 1: through through you guys training me and me practicing and
Speaker 1: figuring out you like, the single reads typically wider and
Speaker 1: you know, less of a dog ear versus your double
Speaker 1: reads are typically a little skinnier and they've got more
Speaker 1: of a taper on the end. You know, you're we're
Speaker 1: dealing with just trying to get weight off the end
Speaker 1: to get him to tune in um to a duck?
Speaker 1: Is Is it just my own opinion that like experienced
Speaker 1: colors and they don't have to lean into it, but
Speaker 1: like your single reads are typically geared towards your more
Speaker 1: experienced colors are people that have more time with it.
Speaker 1: There's a little more effort, a little more air um required.
Speaker 1: Um Is that does that always hold true, that your
Speaker 1: double reads will be a little bit more user friendly
Speaker 1: and your single reads maybe more experience. Is that just
Speaker 1: how the ultimate design kind of comes out. A lot
Speaker 1: of it does come down to ultimate design, But there
Speaker 1: is something to be said, you know, like and when
Speaker 1: you're when you're talking about, you know, whether it's easy
Speaker 1: to use or not. I think there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a misunderstanding. It's not like if I don't know
Speaker 1: how to present air, if I don't know how to
Speaker 1: control my diaphragm, if I have crappy hands, that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna pick up a double read and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sound like a duck because it's a
Speaker 1: double read. You still very much so have to focus
Speaker 1: on your fundamentals, you know, making sure you're making proper notes,
Speaker 1: you know, proper mouth mechanics, hand mechanics. All of that
Speaker 1: still is an effect whether it's a single reader double read.
Speaker 1: The forgiveness factor in how you know, a new collar
Speaker 1: may not be able to pressurize and stabilize their air
Speaker 1: the same way that an experienced color would. So out
Speaker 1: of a single read, that one read is going to
Speaker 1: fly X, bend and make those different notes, whereas a
Speaker 1: double read it kind of hides it a little bit.
Speaker 1: And so the forgiveness factor and a double read is
Speaker 1: typically withdraws a new hunter to the double read side
Speaker 1: instead of the single read side. Got you, we're you
Speaker 1: guys are helping us work on a new single read
Speaker 1: that I've been practicing on. I've got it sitting here
Speaker 1: on my desk, and you know it's it's what I
Speaker 1: was sounding good, but you're sounding good. It would be
Speaker 1: like a wide open call. In my opinion, this is
Speaker 1: my own terminology, Like I can, I can hammer on
Speaker 1: that thing. It sounds like a duck. I can. It
Speaker 1: stays there, and I went and grab one of the
Speaker 1: double reads that you one of the original double reads,
Speaker 1: and I went to blow on it kind of with
Speaker 1: the same idea. You know, the same pressure and everything
Speaker 1: and it just fell on its face. I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: you had to retrain yourself like this double read takes
Speaker 1: about half the air to sound, you know. And uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just one of those things where it's like,
Speaker 1: well you you're so used to that one that it
Speaker 1: takes you a couple um you know quacks to kind
Speaker 1: of figure out where you need to be and how
Speaker 1: much air and and get it to sound like a
Speaker 1: duck again. Um, so onto that's just you know him
Speaker 1: and that that's practice. Yeah, yeah, you had mentioned a
Speaker 1: little bit on tuning. We were talking, you know, dog ears,
Speaker 1: we were talking shortened reads. Um, you know, I had
Speaker 1: a customer call the other day like, hey, we bought
Speaker 1: two of your calls. One of them sounds awesome, one
Speaker 1: of them is missing a little bit, and I just
Speaker 1: asked them to take pictures of the reads, and you
Speaker 1: can tell that one read was quite a bit shorter.
Speaker 1: So we had them pull the cork out readjusted give
Speaker 1: himself a little bit longer read so that he could
Speaker 1: push on the call a little bit more and we
Speaker 1: we got it turned right around. But can you walk
Speaker 1: us through kind of duck tuning one on one? Just
Speaker 1: the quick and dirty, What matters? What doesn't I know it?
Speaker 1: Probably you know it's a little bit different on each
Speaker 1: tone board, each board, but kind of the overall what
Speaker 1: matters and what changes for me to read? You know,
Speaker 1: the basic concept behind you know, tuning a duck call
Speaker 1: is that you're trying to get it to fit with
Speaker 1: how you know, your style of your style of calling is.
Speaker 1: And so the simple I guess way of looking at
Speaker 1: it is typically the longer the read, the more air
Speaker 1: it's going to take, and the deeper tone it's going
Speaker 1: to have. So as you put in a fresh read,
Speaker 1: you're gonna start clipping it back and you need to
Speaker 1: find that happy meeting between the response and the field
Speaker 1: that you want and the tone that you want. And
Speaker 1: so it is a very tedious process and it's something
Speaker 1: that most people get frustrated with because they expect to
Speaker 1: just you know, throw a read in and it sounds
Speaker 1: like a duck right away, and it's like now, there's
Speaker 1: very much so, you know, a finite tuning level. And
Speaker 1: even in my my own lineup and when we're dealing
Speaker 1: with you know, customers and trying to make sure that
Speaker 1: calls fit them and you know, things along those lines,
Speaker 1: It is very much so a a fit discussion because
Speaker 1: how how much air I can produce versus how much
Speaker 1: air you can produce versus you know Trevor or you
Speaker 1: know Joshmo customer, It's it's all different, and so you
Speaker 1: have to find a way, you know, to make that
Speaker 1: thing fit you. And typically, like I said, the longer
Speaker 1: the read, the deeper the tone, but the more air
Speaker 1: it's going to take. And so if you feel that
Speaker 1: you're blowing through the call or like it doesn't have
Speaker 1: enough back when you technically need a longer read because
Speaker 1: from a field standpoint, the read is too short. Now
Speaker 1: from a tone standpoint, if you're trying to change something,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's where some the dog ear stuff
Speaker 1: comes in. And the thinner you make that read on
Speaker 1: the end, the more it will respond in low pressure,
Speaker 1: but it still has enough backbone with it to hit
Speaker 1: it higher. So it is very much so a guess
Speaker 1: and check kind of mentality. And the best part about
Speaker 1: a duck call is my lars cheap. So by all means,
Speaker 1: you know, get a read pack from you, from me,
Speaker 1: from anybody, and just start going nuts because there is
Speaker 1: no perfect answer. But I think I was telling you
Speaker 1: the same thing. When you're tuning a duck call, you
Speaker 1: know less is more, And so with how much you
Speaker 1: clip and change, you're really after like the width of
Speaker 1: a sheet of paper as far as adjustments go, and
Speaker 1: like clip, put it back together, give it a test,
Speaker 1: run it a little bit, and I don't like how
Speaker 1: that feels, pull it apart, clip, do it again, and
Speaker 1: just over and over and over until you get it
Speaker 1: to exactly where you like it. Yeah, And and my
Speaker 1: limited experience, one of the things I noticed more with
Speaker 1: duck calls versus any of my other calls, whether it's
Speaker 1: Elker predator, is the balance of how much error the
Speaker 1: call could take or needs or can't take, versus still
Speaker 1: sound like a duck. And there seems to be like
Speaker 1: this a crossover point where all right, now the call
Speaker 1: I can put as much air to it as I want,
Speaker 1: but I no longer sound like a duck. So it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, maybe that's a we thing, or maybe that's
Speaker 1: a link thing, or maybe that's take dog ears out
Speaker 1: because you need the right weight. And so I found that,
Speaker 1: you know, duck calls more than any other call is
Speaker 1: like that balance of air pressure versus you know, maintaining
Speaker 1: your correct tone that you want out of the call. Yep, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean there there's a variance factor in duck calls
Speaker 1: you know as well, that's not necessarily there with you know, ELK,
Speaker 1: Deer some of the other ones. You know, ducks have
Speaker 1: a very wide spectrum as far as the sounds, tones, volumes,
Speaker 1: things that they're able to produce him in a natural environment.
Speaker 1: And I know there's some variants in ELK as well,
Speaker 1: but in the call itself, you have a lot more
Speaker 1: freedom on a duck call to change the reads and
Speaker 1: do things than you do on let's say, an ELK call,
Speaker 1: because I mean the width of an ELK read effects
Speaker 1: function way more than it does in a duck call.
Speaker 1: And so you know, there's there You've got more room
Speaker 1: to play, you know, in a duck call than you
Speaker 1: do with you know, ELK or anything else. So by
Speaker 1: all means, if you've got a call that's not performing
Speaker 1: right or do anything, swap out the reads and try
Speaker 1: some different tuning and see if you can make it
Speaker 1: fit how you how you think it should. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great advice. Um, I'm gonna dive into materials a
Speaker 1: little bit. Um, you know, we mentioned earlier the history
Speaker 1: of them. I think one of the things that we've
Speaker 1: found is time went on, we're using better materials, whether
Speaker 1: that's acrylic, um, you know, whether we're using you know,
Speaker 1: high end composites like you know the my cards, um,
Speaker 1: you know, some of the engineered materials. Um. What do
Speaker 1: you feel that a duck can tell the difference between
Speaker 1: like a polycarbonate or an acrylic call? Or is it
Speaker 1: the fact that that call can be handed down for
Speaker 1: three generations and still probably be fine where you know,
Speaker 1: the polycarbonate could be squished or give me, give me
Speaker 1: your rundown on materials and if they matter, um, you know.
Speaker 1: For for for myself, my my all time favorite favorite
Speaker 1: kind of call to use is actually a would call.
Speaker 1: I do believe that, like from a natural tone and
Speaker 1: sound standpoint, like woods are some of the better calls,
Speaker 1: but they do have a have a maintenance factor and
Speaker 1: it's it's very difficult a lot of people to maintain
Speaker 1: a would call for years and years and years. So
Speaker 1: from a manufacturing standpoint, an industry standard is acrylic and
Speaker 1: there's a vanity side of that that goes with it
Speaker 1: as well, because you can get acrylic in every color
Speaker 1: of the rainbow. It can be laser engraved, like you
Speaker 1: can make these things look really cool, you know, out
Speaker 1: of the out of the acrylic factor. The crylic is
Speaker 1: actually you know, incredibly dense as well, and so it
Speaker 1: does a good job of not um not altering the
Speaker 1: sound that comes out of it. If you're using acrylic call,
Speaker 1: you're typically very crisp, very clean um, and whatever you're
Speaker 1: putting into the call is transferred out in the sound
Speaker 1: that's there, whereas like would del rin some of these
Speaker 1: softer compounds, they absorb you know a little bit of
Speaker 1: that sound and vibration, so it alters, you know, it
Speaker 1: alters your tone. Um polycarbonate things like that. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's regarded as a cheap product that actually does make
Speaker 1: a very solid product as far as function in things,
Speaker 1: but you know it's it's cheap plastic. It's you know,
Speaker 1: mass producing, injection molded and you know, talking down on it.
Speaker 1: But I have my own molds and everything else myself.
Speaker 1: But it's you know, it's just that it either fits
Speaker 1: or you don't. And you know, for myself, if I
Speaker 1: don't have a would call and typically leaning to acrylic
Speaker 1: and if acrylic is not an option, then del ryn
Speaker 1: is my next. And then you know, POLYCRB is typically
Speaker 1: on the end of the spectrum for for myself personally.
Speaker 1: But I mean I know a lot of guys that
Speaker 1: still kill a lot of ducks with a d R
Speaker 1: a D five man and like they you know, works
Speaker 1: just fine. Yeah, um got you. And one thing I
Speaker 1: like about materials um acrylic or you know, some of
Speaker 1: the the engineered materials is I don't get a call
Speaker 1: from alex on like a Tuesday, but like we have
Speaker 1: a problem. That batch of O sage that we got
Speaker 1: is no good. It's you know, you know, so it's
Speaker 1: that's what I love about them. But it's it's pretty consistent, um,
Speaker 1: you know, as it's it's cast rod um, you know.
Speaker 1: And so that's one thing I do like about material
Speaker 1: you know, uh, an engineered material. But like you said,
Speaker 1: I love you know a lot of our turkey calls.
Speaker 1: We can't get around would um. But yeah, it is
Speaker 1: it is nice to have something consistent, especially you know,
Speaker 1: well when you see all the processes that these call
Speaker 1: has got to go through. You know, the barrel goes
Speaker 1: through the lay, then it goes through polish and then
Speaker 1: you know, the the inswer of the kid goes through
Speaker 1: the mill. It's like if something pops on the last stage,
Speaker 1: Like it's just frustrating. It's like you went through the
Speaker 1: entire process of building a call and then we lost
Speaker 1: it at you know, and and the milling and stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, has a higher likelihood of doing that. And
Speaker 1: so I don't know from my from a manufacturer standpoint,
Speaker 1: like sometimes I feel like it's hitting an easy button, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a little more expensive, but it's going
Speaker 1: to be consistent and I know we're not gonna have
Speaker 1: issues with it, So let's go ahead and pick a
Speaker 1: crylic um. Oh and then I'd have to agree with
Speaker 1: you on that one. I mean, it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a man made material. You don't have
Speaker 1: these these oddities that come out of it. And you know,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, you're gonna get, you're gonna get would
Speaker 1: where sometimes it is just trash. There's a nod in it.
Speaker 1: You know, there's something that was not there. But there's
Speaker 1: also you know that that little bit of nostalgia nuanced factor,
Speaker 1: and like every single would call that comes off, they're
Speaker 1: all different. Yes, they're all the same, but like every
Speaker 1: one of them is different, where like that's the same
Speaker 1: from start to finish. Man, there's nothing you're not gonna
Speaker 1: find this like, oh, this is a really cool piece
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. So you know, there's some
Speaker 1: of that in the surprise factor, like you just don't
Speaker 1: get from anything else. But you are a dcent correct
Speaker 1: on the manufacturing side of life, and you know, the
Speaker 1: the consistent results in every single call over and over
Speaker 1: and over and repeatability factor. I mean, you know, acrylic
Speaker 1: is pretty much pretty much where it's at, and that's
Speaker 1: why it is indeed the industry standard, especially and you
Speaker 1: know and waterfowl calls. Gotcha, Um, Okay, this is a
Speaker 1: I could have googled this, but I'm gonna put myself
Speaker 1: out there and at what is the difference between I
Speaker 1: cut down versus a meat call? And explain that to me,
Speaker 1: because you hear it said all the time, but I
Speaker 1: want to hear your I want to hear your your explanation. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, for me, I don't know if
Speaker 1: the if the two things that you're talking about they
Speaker 1: are actually on the same deal. A cut down is
Speaker 1: a is a style of call that you know originated
Speaker 1: from an old old and old ps old and then uh,
Speaker 1: meat calls so to speak. I guess I think that's
Speaker 1: actually like a term as far as like a contest goes,
Speaker 1: Like you have like a main street calling on tests,
Speaker 1: you have a meat calling contest or a live calling contest,
Speaker 1: and so the two aren't necessarily one and the same
Speaker 1: or can be compared, like what one's the style of
Speaker 1: a call and ones are you know, different calling contests
Speaker 1: as far as that goes, At least that's how I'm
Speaker 1: I'm reading that question. So yeah, it was more of
Speaker 1: I've heard these calls referred to cut down calls or
Speaker 1: meat calls. Um, so maybe it wasn't. It was phrase
Speaker 1: the wrong way, But just what the definition because it's
Speaker 1: like unless I go google it, like I don't know
Speaker 1: what that means. Well, I mean, you know, a cutdown
Speaker 1: is indeed, just like if you had to put a
Speaker 1: very simple, simple way of thinking about it, it's it's
Speaker 1: like an ultra aggressive style of a J frame. It's
Speaker 1: got a wide open bore, typically a fourteen mill read
Speaker 1: and it's designed to you know, really produce harsh, barky
Speaker 1: sounds down in the Arkansas timber, whereas you know, something
Speaker 1: that's more like my J frame style calls. They're a
Speaker 1: little bit softer, neater. They run, you know, a kind
Speaker 1: of a higher frequency level like you were talking about
Speaker 1: with some of the some of the elk stuff. So
Speaker 1: like the cutdown is kind of a style of a call.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily a type of calling. I guess that's
Speaker 1: the way to put it. Well, thanks for running us
Speaker 1: with those calls. In closing, if you had one tip
Speaker 1: to help, um, you know, duck hunters out there be
Speaker 1: successful this year, what would it be? Oh man, just
Speaker 1: you know, try to stay positive because it's it is
Speaker 1: definitely one of those things you can get spoiled really
Speaker 1: quick by showing up on a hunt and you know,
Speaker 1: shoot your seven and be like this is the greatest
Speaker 1: thing in the world. But you know you're gonna you're
Speaker 1: gonna have days where you're gonna sit out there and
Speaker 1: I wonder, why the why the hell you did this?
Speaker 1: But um, you know, it's it's a long game. Um.
Speaker 1: The seasons, you know, really long for waterfowl compared to
Speaker 1: a lot of big game stuff, and so there's there's
Speaker 1: tons of opportunity and uh, you know, get out, try
Speaker 1: to enjoy it. It's it's it's a lot of fun
Speaker 1: and uh and it should stay that way. So, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, try to stay positive and have fun
Speaker 1: doing it. Yeah, that's great advice and uh, I really
Speaker 1: appreciate having you on today, Alex. Thanks for all your time,
Speaker 1: Thanks for uh, you know everything, and good luck out
Speaker 1: there this year. Absolutely. Man. Well hopefully, Hey we got it.
Speaker 1: We got a couple of months. You're done hunting the
Speaker 1: big game stuff, right, the stuff with first Come on, man, Scott,
Speaker 1: let's go let's go chase. All right, we might might
Speaker 1: have to do that, all right. Sounds like a point,
Speaker 1: but m