WEBVTT - From Valley of Shadows: The Devil's Punchbowl 

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<v Speaker 1>Bushkin, Malcolm. Here, I want to tell you about a

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<v Speaker 1>man named John Ajay. He was a Los Angeles County

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<v Speaker 1>Sheriff's deputy, an ultra marathon runner, a survivalist, and someone

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<v Speaker 1>who had made a study of how to stay alive

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<v Speaker 1>in punishing terrain. And one day he went for a

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<v Speaker 1>run in a place called the Devil's Punch Bowl in

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<v Speaker 1>the high Desert of Los Angeles, and he never came back.

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<v Speaker 1>Some say Aja is just another missing hiker claimed by

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<v Speaker 1>the inhospitable landscape of the southern California Desert. Some say

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<v Speaker 1>he took his own life out there. But there's another

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<v Speaker 1>theory that many of Ajay's friends and colleagues are convinced

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<v Speaker 1>is true. That he was the victim of foul play

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<v Speaker 1>and his own department is covering it up. Hosted by

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<v Speaker 1>journalist Haley Fox and Betsy Shepherd, Valley of Shadows explores

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<v Speaker 1>Age's unsolved disappearance and the stench of corruption that's followed

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<v Speaker 1>the case for nearly thirty years. Through exclusive interviews, revealing

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<v Speaker 1>wiretaps and buried police files, Haley and Betsy enter into

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<v Speaker 1>the criminal underworld of Outlaw Biker gang's meth production and

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<v Speaker 1>crooked cops in southern California's Mojave Desert, exploring one of

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<v Speaker 1>the state's most mysterious missing persons cases. You're about to

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<v Speaker 1>hear a preview from the show. If you enjoy it,

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<v Speaker 1>you can find Value of Shadows wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>This series includes content that may not be suitable for

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<v Speaker 2>all listeners. Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's okay, yeah, I'll turn it down this a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit, because sometimes you get animated.

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<v Speaker 4>I get pissed off, pissed off old cop.

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<v Speaker 5>This pissed off oul cop is Mike Bauer.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, my name is Mike Bauer, retired Captain LA Sheriff.

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<v Speaker 6>I retired in two thousand and two. My last assignment

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<v Speaker 6>was Major Crimes Bureau, Detective Division, LA Sheriff.

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<v Speaker 5>Bower spent thirty three years climbing the ranks of the

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<v Speaker 5>Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. And he looks the part

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<v Speaker 5>of a retired captain. His white hair and mustache are

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<v Speaker 5>neatly groomed, and his eyes were permanently fixed, and a

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<v Speaker 5>look that says, do not fuck up on my watch.

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<v Speaker 5>And he's pissed off because of something that happened to

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<v Speaker 5>one of his guys on his squad back in the

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<v Speaker 5>summer of nineteen ninety eight. June eleventh started off like

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<v Speaker 5>a normal day in Los Angeles, June gloom and bad traffic.

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<v Speaker 6>I got up early out of Long Beach and hitded

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<v Speaker 6>up the six zero five and into East La. Our

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<v Speaker 6>office in East LA.

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<v Speaker 5>Bauer was doing paperwork when a call came into the

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<v Speaker 5>front desk. The receptionist answered.

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<v Speaker 6>Then she hung up and she comes down to get

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<v Speaker 6>a cup of coffee across the hall, and I said, hey,

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<v Speaker 6>who was that? It was? John Auj.

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<v Speaker 5>John AJ was a thirty eight year old canine cop

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<v Speaker 5>and he was calling to inquire about an upcoming job assignment.

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<v Speaker 6>I said, well, I've been trying to get hold him,

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<v Speaker 6>and she says, oh, well, maybe he'll call back.

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<v Speaker 4>He never called back.

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<v Speaker 5>John Aj was working for the unit Bower headed up

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<v Speaker 5>at the time, the Special Enforcement Bureau or SEB for short.

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<v Speaker 6>Which consists of seven or eight SWAT teams, and the

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<v Speaker 6>SWAT teams were involved in tactical responses to high risk

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<v Speaker 6>situations in the field.

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<v Speaker 5>SEB handled things like active shooter situations, hostage negotiations, search

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<v Speaker 5>and rescue, it was a job that attracted adrenaline junkies

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<v Speaker 5>like Aj. He was an Army paratrooper and a survivalist.

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<v Speaker 5>Those military skills, along with his buzz cut and square build,

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<v Speaker 5>made him a shoe in for the Sheriff's Department.

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<v Speaker 6>He was in the Army in Special Forces. He was

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<v Speaker 6>working at the elite unit of the department. I have

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<v Speaker 6>to call him a loaner, but he was an elite

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<v Speaker 6>loaner because the guy was doing fifty mile runs. He

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<v Speaker 6>was an animal.

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<v Speaker 5>Auj got his kicks by going on long runs through

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<v Speaker 5>California's back country. He go out deep into the wilderness

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<v Speaker 5>to conquer the only obstacle course that still challenged him.

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<v Speaker 5>And that's how Auj was spending his day off. On

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<v Speaker 5>June eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, he woke up, put on

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<v Speaker 5>his running gear and drove to one of his favorite parks,

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<v Speaker 5>the Devil's Punch Bowl. It's a rugged canyon where the

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<v Speaker 5>Angelus National Forest, the San Gabriel Mountains, and the Mojave

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<v Speaker 5>Desert all converge. Auj entered the park just before noon,

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<v Speaker 5>used a payphone to call into the Sheriff's Department, and

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<v Speaker 5>then he took off running. He never listened to any music,

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<v Speaker 5>just the sounds of nature as he jogged along a

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<v Speaker 5>maze of switchbacks and up a nearly ten thousand foot mountain.

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<v Speaker 5>By early evening, he looped back towards the parking lot,

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<v Speaker 5>but as the sun began to set, the shadows of

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<v Speaker 5>trees and rocks grew until night engulfed the park.

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<v Speaker 6>That evening, I got a phone call saying that Wog

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<v Speaker 6>is missing, that he didn't come back to his vehicle,

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<v Speaker 6>and that they were going to start some more extensive

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<v Speaker 6>searching for him.

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<v Speaker 7>It's an all out manhunt for John Aujay. Every search

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<v Speaker 7>and rescue team in La County has been called in

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<v Speaker 7>to help the thirty eight year old when hiking Thursday

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<v Speaker 7>in a rugged section of the Angelos National Forest known

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<v Speaker 7>as Double Punch Bowls Park. It's a beautiful but dangerous area,

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<v Speaker 7>an area where it may be extremely difficult to find

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<v Speaker 7>all Jay.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a pretty unique situation. The Sheriff's department is called

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<v Speaker 5>in to look for a missing hiker who's one of

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<v Speaker 5>their own. So the search and rescue team sent out

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<v Speaker 5>to look for Aj consists of his friends and colleagues.

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<v Speaker 8>We took our teams out and deployed in two man

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<v Speaker 8>teams over the edges of the trails into the little

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<v Speaker 8>nooks and crannies and the gullies that he could have

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<v Speaker 8>slipped and fallen into.

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<v Speaker 5>But searchers find no trace of aj. It was as

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<v Speaker 5>if he just vanished into thin air. And now, nearly

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<v Speaker 5>thirty years later, the deputy is still missing.

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<v Speaker 6>I guess I'll open a box.

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<v Speaker 5>All that remains from Auj's life is packed into five

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<v Speaker 5>cardboard boxes. The items are wrapped in plastic and Bower

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<v Speaker 5>wears gloves as he combs through them.

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<v Speaker 6>This is John's work jacket, and it's an SEB jacket

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<v Speaker 6>with his name embroidered on it, and Bossco his dog.

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<v Speaker 5>Now Bower's preserving Auja's belongings for future developments in the case.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, so here's his running shoes with his name on

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<v Speaker 6>the back. Those should have some DNA in them.

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<v Speaker 5>The artifacts also tell us who Auja was. There's a

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<v Speaker 5>photocollage full of happy memories him and his high school

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<v Speaker 5>sweetheart Dub on their wedding day, a birthday party for

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<v Speaker 5>their daughter Chloe, who was just five when he disappeared,

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<v Speaker 5>and puppy picks of Bosco Auj's department issued K nine

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<v Speaker 5>and next to these snapshots of domestic life, there's a

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<v Speaker 5>steel ballistics helmet intended to stop rifle rounds, trophies for marksmanship,

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<v Speaker 5>army fatigues, you know, tough stuff. Auja moved at a

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<v Speaker 5>fast clip, trying to balance the competing demands of home

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<v Speaker 5>and work, but his life came to an abrupt and

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<v Speaker 5>puzzling end.

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<v Speaker 6>A death certificate says cause a death unknown manner, a

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<v Speaker 6>death unknown no body.

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<v Speaker 5>The deputy's body has never been found, which raises a

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<v Speaker 5>lot of questions for Mike Bauer and a survivalist getting

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<v Speaker 5>lost in the woods another big question mark. Over time,

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<v Speaker 5>the mystery of it all has turned into something else,

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<v Speaker 5>deep and unsettling, suspicion about the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

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<v Speaker 6>The only law enforcement agency in this country that I

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<v Speaker 6>know of, and I've looked around, who has a missing

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<v Speaker 6>deputy sheriff and doesn't seem to care. What the hell happened?

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<v Speaker 6>What's the answer? Who's motivated to find the answer?

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<v Speaker 5>And that's my cue. When Mike Bauer first told me

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<v Speaker 5>about Auja, I thought an unsolved disappearance involving a cop

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<v Speaker 5>that's unusual. But when he started talking about the Sheriff's Department,

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<v Speaker 5>his department, that's when I locked in. Because you'd expect

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<v Speaker 5>the La County Sheriff's Department to turn over every stone

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<v Speaker 5>to find their guy. So the claiming that the LASD

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<v Speaker 5>may have an interest in not solving the case, now

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<v Speaker 5>that's a story. So I called up my friend Hailey Fox.

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<v Speaker 5>Like me, she's an investigative journalist and she knows a

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<v Speaker 5>lot about the Sheriff's department because she's reported on it

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<v Speaker 5>for many years.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Betsy, Hey dear, I'm good. I'm ready.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I got to do this.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about time. I'm a little road trip adventure.

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<v Speaker 9>All right, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 5>We've teamed up on stories before and decided to get

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<v Speaker 5>the band back together to fin answers about this missing

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<v Speaker 5>deputy and to take on the largest sheriff's department in

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<v Speaker 5>the country.

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<v Speaker 10>There's a code of silence in law enforcement. You break

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<v Speaker 10>that code of silence, you're done.

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, if don't fucking kill a Copponberry, it's what they're

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<v Speaker 4>gonna do to me.

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<v Speaker 6>It's an obstruction of justice of a very large scale.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Betsy Shepherd, I'm Haley Fox, and this is Valley

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<v Speaker 2>of Shadows, a show about crime and corruption in California's

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<v Speaker 2>High Desert. Episode one, the Devil's Punch Bowl. Betsy and

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<v Speaker 2>I are making the trek from downtown Los Angeles to

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<v Speaker 2>the Antelope Valley that's the desert area north of La

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<v Speaker 2>where Deputy Auj disappeared. The drives about sixty miles, but

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<v Speaker 2>it takes an hour and a half to two hours

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<v Speaker 2>because of the mountainous terrain, so you actually have to

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<v Speaker 2>take We gotta go north. Yeah, we're gonna go north,

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<v Speaker 2>but this is La Dude. We gotta go south one,

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<v Speaker 2>the south, five, north, fourteen and then I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>a one thirty eighth throat in there, but nothing's a.

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<v Speaker 4>Street shot spoken like a true Angelino.

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<v Speaker 2>I was born and raised in La County, Go Dodgers,

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<v Speaker 2>but this part of it feels worlds away. The Antelope Valley,

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<v Speaker 2>or the AV as it's sometimes called, is a three

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<v Speaker 2>thousand square mile stretch of the Mojave, but this part

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<v Speaker 2>of the High Desert doesn't have the same allure and

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<v Speaker 2>vibingess as places like Joshua Tree. Instead, the Avy is

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<v Speaker 2>mostly empty space dotted with defence plants, bedroom communities, and

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<v Speaker 2>tumbleweed towns.

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<v Speaker 4>So a lot of just like.

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<v Speaker 5>Trailers kind of just park down in the desert.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean power lines and scrubbrush. Our story takes

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<v Speaker 2>place in and around Pair Blossom, California. It has a

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<v Speaker 2>population of fifteen hundred and it's where the Devil's Punch

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<v Speaker 2>bowls located. Driving through it, Betsy gets a case of

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<v Speaker 2>deja vu.

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<v Speaker 3>I had anxiety coming to places like this because it

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<v Speaker 3>reminds me of like a town and I grow up

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<v Speaker 3>and there's just.

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<v Speaker 5>Just like I feel the oppressive weight of boredom.

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<v Speaker 11>Oh really.

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<v Speaker 5>I moved to La several years ago from South Louisiana.

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<v Speaker 5>I had never been to Anelo Valley before, but it

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<v Speaker 5>was immediately familiar to me because if you were to

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<v Speaker 5>replace desert with swamp, this region would look a lot

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<v Speaker 5>like the small town I'm from. It's rural and kind

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<v Speaker 5>of run down. There's more landscape than real estate, lots

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<v Speaker 5>of pickup trucks in town. Life seems like a thing

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<v Speaker 5>of the past.

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<v Speaker 9>We got.

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<v Speaker 5>An abandoned motel, what's this, Oh like an abandoned old

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<v Speaker 5>restaurant call and people getting gas to presumably be all

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<v Speaker 5>their way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think the three gas stations in

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<v Speaker 2>a row tell the story.

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<v Speaker 5>But the closer we get to the Devil's Punch Bowl

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<v Speaker 5>where auj was last spotted, and other worldly landscape appears,

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<v Speaker 5>full of spiky Joshua trees and sandstone columns.

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<v Speaker 2>It's actually really beautiful out here.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not expected to light.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you looking at these huge rocks jutting out of

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<v Speaker 2>the ground and like they're making all those crazy shadows?

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<v Speaker 2>For seeing anything like them? I haven't either.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like I've been an old Western movie, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like we're He's got this like wide epic landscape shots.

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<v Speaker 2>Total endless horizons, totally endless horizons.

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<v Speaker 5>I can see why John aj likes to come out here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's pretty pretty impig Okay, we are pulling into

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<v Speaker 2>the Devil's Punch Bowl County Park parking lot.

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<v Speaker 9>Here we are.

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<v Speaker 2>We've come here to retrace John Aujay's last known steps

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<v Speaker 2>and to meet with ranger Jack Farley. He was working

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<v Speaker 2>on the punch Bowl the day the deputy disappeared.

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<v Speaker 12>Hi are you? But are you Jack Farley?

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<v Speaker 13>By chance?

0:14:36.756 --> 0:14:37.236
<v Speaker 11>I am.

0:14:39.036 --> 0:14:39.396
<v Speaker 13>Betsy.

0:14:40.116 --> 0:14:43.676
<v Speaker 5>This is my reporting partner, Haley.

0:14:42.636 --> 0:14:45.836
<v Speaker 2>To thank you for meeting us out here. Yes, Jack

0:14:45.916 --> 0:14:48.996
<v Speaker 2>Farley's retired now, but for thirty five years he was

0:14:49.036 --> 0:14:50.596
<v Speaker 2>assigned to work the punch Bowl.

0:14:51.916 --> 0:14:53.036
<v Speaker 5>What a cool job.

0:14:54.156 --> 0:14:54.716
<v Speaker 12>Great for me?

0:14:55.356 --> 0:14:57.276
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, it was awesome, good job.

0:14:58.476 --> 0:15:00.556
<v Speaker 2>It was Farley's job to keep an eye on things,

0:15:00.756 --> 0:15:04.276
<v Speaker 2>to tend the grounds and patrol the area. So he

0:15:04.396 --> 0:15:06.956
<v Speaker 2>noticed when auj became a regular at the punch Bowl,

0:15:07.436 --> 0:15:11.036
<v Speaker 2>and he clocked Aujay's regular parking space the one closest

0:15:11.076 --> 0:15:11.876
<v Speaker 2>to the trailhead.

0:15:12.796 --> 0:15:14.956
<v Speaker 11>So I can remember seeing him sitting in the back

0:15:14.956 --> 0:15:18.316
<v Speaker 11>of his truck when you get done with a run

0:15:19.076 --> 0:15:21.636
<v Speaker 11>in the mountains. So when I'd walk out into the

0:15:21.676 --> 0:15:23.756
<v Speaker 11>parking lot, I'd see him sitting out there and ask

0:15:23.836 --> 0:15:24.796
<v Speaker 11>him about his run.

0:15:26.156 --> 0:15:29.476
<v Speaker 2>Farley remembers that the day all Jay disappeared, his white

0:15:29.556 --> 0:15:32.396
<v Speaker 2>Ford F one fifty truck was parked in that very

0:15:32.436 --> 0:15:36.236
<v Speaker 2>same spot, surrounded on all sides by wilderness.

0:15:37.276 --> 0:15:39.836
<v Speaker 3>One thing that impresses us so much about this area

0:15:40.076 --> 0:15:43.236
<v Speaker 3>is that you have a desert landscape on one side,

0:15:43.316 --> 0:15:45.796
<v Speaker 3>you have mountains and forests on the other, and then

0:15:45.876 --> 0:15:50.036
<v Speaker 3>in between it's these really cool rock formations.

0:15:50.716 --> 0:15:54.956
<v Speaker 11>Right, it's all uplifted from earthquake activity. Oh wow, that's

0:15:54.996 --> 0:15:58.676
<v Speaker 11>a punch Bowl fault, and that runs parallel with the mountains.

0:15:59.196 --> 0:16:00.996
<v Speaker 11>And then when you came up to here, you cross

0:16:01.036 --> 0:16:03.716
<v Speaker 11>the San Andreas Fault, which of course the big one

0:16:03.716 --> 0:16:07.476
<v Speaker 11>that runs through California, several faults in the area. It

0:16:07.516 --> 0:16:09.836
<v Speaker 11>took all this sand that was laid down on flat

0:16:10.236 --> 0:16:13.596
<v Speaker 11>by streams and tilted up in the vertical relief.

0:16:13.956 --> 0:16:16.036
<v Speaker 5>And it creates a bull shape.

0:16:16.196 --> 0:16:19.396
<v Speaker 11>You can see a definite bull shape coming around like this.

0:16:19.516 --> 0:16:21.116
<v Speaker 11>So that's where it got the punch Bowl name.

0:16:22.516 --> 0:16:25.156
<v Speaker 2>We're not totally sure about the devil part of it, though.

0:16:27.236 --> 0:16:30.956
<v Speaker 2>According to local lore, early homesteaders saw grinning devil in

0:16:30.996 --> 0:16:34.756
<v Speaker 2>the rock formations. We didn't see satan in the rock face,

0:16:35.316 --> 0:16:38.556
<v Speaker 2>but we did see something else thanks to a county

0:16:38.596 --> 0:16:40.436
<v Speaker 2>park employee named Dave Numar.

0:16:41.876 --> 0:16:45.156
<v Speaker 9>See this right where the shadow ends, there's that big

0:16:45.236 --> 0:16:48.156
<v Speaker 9>rock kind of all by itself. If you look, it's

0:16:48.196 --> 0:16:50.596
<v Speaker 9>like a forehead is facing us and there's a nose

0:16:50.636 --> 0:16:51.156
<v Speaker 9>pointing stream.

0:16:51.236 --> 0:16:52.476
<v Speaker 10>It looks like George Washington.

0:16:52.556 --> 0:16:54.556
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, it's a natural not rest.

0:16:54.636 --> 0:16:55.756
<v Speaker 1>More cool.

0:16:56.476 --> 0:16:59.116
<v Speaker 9>So there's all kinds of faces out here because it's like, oh,

0:16:59.156 --> 0:17:02.316
<v Speaker 9>if our brains are programmed to see patterns.

0:17:02.996 --> 0:17:06.036
<v Speaker 2>Pattern recognition is why we see gods and goddesses in

0:17:06.076 --> 0:17:09.676
<v Speaker 2>the stars and the man in the moon. Also a

0:17:09.756 --> 0:17:13.316
<v Speaker 2>key part of criminal investigations, a way to turn information

0:17:13.596 --> 0:17:16.916
<v Speaker 2>into a story. And that's why we've come to the

0:17:16.956 --> 0:17:19.596
<v Speaker 2>Devil's punch Bowl to see if we can make sense

0:17:19.676 --> 0:17:24.716
<v Speaker 2>of what happened on June eleventh, nineteen ninety eight. So

0:17:24.756 --> 0:17:26.916
<v Speaker 2>we pull out a map we printed from the internet

0:17:27.156 --> 0:17:31.156
<v Speaker 2>because we're prepared journalists and elder millennials, and we present

0:17:31.196 --> 0:17:32.436
<v Speaker 2>it to Ranger Farltly.

0:17:33.756 --> 0:17:34.916
<v Speaker 3>Let me show you what it looks like.

0:17:36.556 --> 0:17:38.236
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, line will definitely better.

0:17:38.316 --> 0:17:39.996
<v Speaker 2>It's definitely get us lost in.

0:17:41.796 --> 0:17:41.996
<v Speaker 6>God.

0:17:43.676 --> 0:17:46.836
<v Speaker 2>Farley proves his outdoor prowess by whipping out some real

0:17:46.876 --> 0:17:51.636
<v Speaker 2>maps of the area to help orient us to our surroundings.

0:17:51.636 --> 0:17:52.996
<v Speaker 11>Okay, here's the Devil's Punt.

0:17:53.156 --> 0:17:58.676
<v Speaker 4>Okay, and there's Burkharp Tree all right.

0:17:58.716 --> 0:18:02.556
<v Speaker 11>There goes over toward Devil's Chairs, so that'd be just

0:18:02.636 --> 0:18:05.196
<v Speaker 11>to the east, goes to south Fork.

0:18:06.916 --> 0:18:10.356
<v Speaker 2>One witness reported seeing Auj and the picnic tables at

0:18:10.356 --> 0:18:14.476
<v Speaker 2>the main trailhead sometime before noon. This witness was a

0:18:14.516 --> 0:18:16.996
<v Speaker 2>local teacher there on a field trip with a bunch

0:18:17.036 --> 0:18:20.556
<v Speaker 2>of elementary school kids. Auj stopped to talk to him.

0:18:20.756 --> 0:18:23.236
<v Speaker 2>He pointed to a jagged mountain in the distance, Mount

0:18:23.276 --> 0:18:26.036
<v Speaker 2>Baden Powell, and said that's where he was headed.

0:18:27.036 --> 0:18:30.836
<v Speaker 11>So the high mountain behind the telephone pole over there, Yeah,

0:18:30.836 --> 0:18:34.916
<v Speaker 11>that's Baden powellin that's where he would go sometimes. How

0:18:34.996 --> 0:18:37.276
<v Speaker 11>tall of the mountain, jeez, that is one of the

0:18:37.356 --> 0:18:40.076
<v Speaker 11>higher ones. Let me think ten thousand ten, I mean

0:18:40.116 --> 0:18:41.076
<v Speaker 11>in this range.

0:18:41.356 --> 0:18:45.116
<v Speaker 5>And he would run from here to that mountain all

0:18:45.116 --> 0:18:46.556
<v Speaker 5>the way over there and then run up it.

0:18:47.236 --> 0:18:50.156
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, he'd run over there, and then there're sitchbacks all

0:18:50.196 --> 0:18:51.596
<v Speaker 11>the way to the top of that mountain.

0:18:53.036 --> 0:18:56.356
<v Speaker 2>Auj was spotted again later in the day, when multiple

0:18:56.396 --> 0:18:59.196
<v Speaker 2>witnesses say they saw him jogging through a campground just

0:18:59.356 --> 0:19:02.356
<v Speaker 2>north of the mountain in the direction of the punch

0:19:02.396 --> 0:19:06.116
<v Speaker 2>Bowl parking lot. But when Farley left his post at

0:19:06.116 --> 0:19:09.596
<v Speaker 2>five PM, Auj's truck was still parked in the lot,

0:19:10.396 --> 0:19:13.396
<v Speaker 2>and it stayed parked there as the evening bloomed over

0:19:13.436 --> 0:19:18.596
<v Speaker 2>the desert, and then close to midnight, Aujy's wife called

0:19:18.636 --> 0:19:20.956
<v Speaker 2>the sheriff station to report him missing.

0:19:48.996 --> 0:19:52.916
<v Speaker 5>As June eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, years its end, Debbie

0:19:52.916 --> 0:19:57.876
<v Speaker 5>Aujay becomes increasingly panicked because her husband, Deputy John Ajay

0:19:58.116 --> 0:20:00.556
<v Speaker 5>told her he'd be home around dark, and by now

0:20:00.596 --> 0:20:03.396
<v Speaker 5>he's several hours late. So she dials up one of

0:20:03.436 --> 0:20:05.316
<v Speaker 5>the sheriff stations where Aujay worked.

0:20:06.396 --> 0:20:10.156
<v Speaker 14>The call comes into the desk and it's from Debbie

0:20:10.236 --> 0:20:13.516
<v Speaker 14>and it says, hey, my husband, who's a deputy, he

0:20:13.596 --> 0:20:16.076
<v Speaker 14>went for a run and he didn't come home.

0:20:17.116 --> 0:20:20.476
<v Speaker 5>Vince Burton was a sergeant in the Antelope Valley. He

0:20:20.596 --> 0:20:23.636
<v Speaker 5>was also Auja's colleague and friend. So he gets on

0:20:23.676 --> 0:20:24.596
<v Speaker 5>the phone with Debbie.

0:20:25.916 --> 0:20:27.436
<v Speaker 4>She was just upset.

0:20:27.756 --> 0:20:28.836
<v Speaker 12>She was crying.

0:20:29.636 --> 0:20:31.916
<v Speaker 4>She was obviously very concerned.

0:20:32.316 --> 0:20:35.196
<v Speaker 14>I just I said, okay, Debbie, we're sending people up there,

0:20:35.436 --> 0:20:37.116
<v Speaker 14>you know, keep you posted.

0:20:38.316 --> 0:20:41.156
<v Speaker 5>Patrol deputies high tail it to the punch bowl, where

0:20:41.156 --> 0:20:45.156
<v Speaker 5>they find Auj's truck, but no Auj. They think maybe

0:20:45.196 --> 0:20:47.956
<v Speaker 5>he got injured, slipped and fell for how to run

0:20:47.956 --> 0:20:52.476
<v Speaker 5>in with some wildlife. So Burton dispatches Search and Rescue

0:20:52.476 --> 0:20:55.596
<v Speaker 5>to the site and he calls in their coordinator, Dave Soer,

0:20:55.836 --> 0:20:57.796
<v Speaker 5>to discuss Auj's likely route.

0:20:58.876 --> 0:21:01.956
<v Speaker 14>And Dave comes in and we pull up a map

0:21:02.036 --> 0:21:05.276
<v Speaker 14>of the area and I told him at that time,

0:21:05.316 --> 0:21:09.596
<v Speaker 14>I said, you know, John's a runner, and he goes, yeah,

0:21:09.636 --> 0:21:12.556
<v Speaker 14>and I said, no, he's a long distance running He's

0:21:12.556 --> 0:21:13.596
<v Speaker 14>an ultra marathoner.

0:21:14.156 --> 0:21:14.916
<v Speaker 4>He's like what.

0:21:16.836 --> 0:21:21.636
<v Speaker 5>Ultra marathoners are running extremists who power through long distances.

0:21:22.676 --> 0:21:25.236
<v Speaker 5>In fact, Auj was scheduled to compete in a one

0:21:25.316 --> 0:21:28.836
<v Speaker 5>hundred mile run the week after he went missing, so

0:21:28.916 --> 0:21:31.596
<v Speaker 5>responders have a hard time wrapping their heads around the

0:21:31.676 --> 0:21:32.636
<v Speaker 5>scale of the search.

0:21:33.756 --> 0:21:36.116
<v Speaker 12>I gave him the best information I could give him.

0:21:36.156 --> 0:21:38.796
<v Speaker 12>You know, don't start your grid pattern so small.

0:21:39.836 --> 0:21:42.876
<v Speaker 5>This is Randy Meggerdley. He was a patrolled deputy for

0:21:42.916 --> 0:21:46.756
<v Speaker 5>the Sheriff's Department and one of Auj's running buddies. He

0:21:46.836 --> 0:21:50.516
<v Speaker 5>reiterates to the command post that Auj was a beast.

0:21:51.076 --> 0:21:54.836
<v Speaker 12>You're running goat trails is basically what I categorize them as.

0:21:55.036 --> 0:21:56.596
<v Speaker 4>What do you mean by that goat trails?

0:21:56.916 --> 0:22:01.436
<v Speaker 12>Well, they're just megshift trails. Sometimes they'll be covered with snow,

0:22:01.796 --> 0:22:05.996
<v Speaker 12>sometimes they'll be covered with mud, crossing rivers. I mean,

0:22:06.636 --> 0:22:09.076
<v Speaker 12>it's crazy what kind of stuff that we were doing.

0:22:10.276 --> 0:22:12.836
<v Speaker 12>There was one that we did. It was hand over

0:22:13.036 --> 0:22:15.556
<v Speaker 12>foot trying to get up this mountain.

0:22:15.996 --> 0:22:16.516
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

0:22:17.076 --> 0:22:21.396
<v Speaker 5>And so part of the activity was figuring out how

0:22:21.436 --> 0:22:21.916
<v Speaker 5>to get to.

0:22:21.876 --> 0:22:22.436
<v Speaker 4>The end of it.

0:22:23.076 --> 0:22:24.516
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, and one piece.

0:22:26.156 --> 0:22:30.156
<v Speaker 5>Hearing Meggerdy talk about ultra marathoners, it sounds like they

0:22:30.196 --> 0:22:34.916
<v Speaker 5>have no off switch. So maybe Auj just overdid it.

0:22:36.236 --> 0:22:41.756
<v Speaker 12>Your brain does some wonky stuff when you're dehydrated, and

0:22:41.796 --> 0:22:43.796
<v Speaker 12>they thought maybe he got on a trail and he

0:22:43.956 --> 0:22:47.076
<v Speaker 12>was doing the forest gump just kept running.

0:22:48.316 --> 0:22:51.236
<v Speaker 5>That's a theory that Auj was doing the forest gump

0:22:51.276 --> 0:22:54.796
<v Speaker 5>and just kept running and got himself into a tailspin

0:22:54.836 --> 0:22:59.196
<v Speaker 5>of dehydration. Responders take note and fan out across the

0:22:59.236 --> 0:22:59.796
<v Speaker 5>search grid.

0:23:00.596 --> 0:23:02.036
<v Speaker 11>I was nice to him, I said, do you know,

0:23:02.116 --> 0:23:04.236
<v Speaker 11>I know the area pretty well if you guys want help?

0:23:04.716 --> 0:23:06.756
<v Speaker 5>Ranger Jack Farley again, and the.

0:23:06.796 --> 0:23:09.716
<v Speaker 11>Guy goes, now, we're search and rescue pretty much know

0:23:09.716 --> 0:23:10.636
<v Speaker 11>what we're doing, you know.

0:23:10.796 --> 0:23:13.516
<v Speaker 4>So I go okay, okay.

0:23:14.636 --> 0:23:17.596
<v Speaker 5>But it doesn't take long for the pros realize they're

0:23:17.596 --> 0:23:18.716
<v Speaker 5>in over their heads.

0:23:19.356 --> 0:23:21.356
<v Speaker 11>So then they're going, hey, are you the guy that

0:23:21.476 --> 0:23:23.396
<v Speaker 11>knows the area? You know, maybe you could give us

0:23:23.396 --> 0:23:24.036
<v Speaker 11>a little help.

0:23:25.036 --> 0:23:28.076
<v Speaker 5>So Farley leads a few groups of deputies and bloodhounds

0:23:28.196 --> 0:23:29.716
<v Speaker 5>down the local trails.

0:23:30.196 --> 0:23:33.156
<v Speaker 11>At one time thought they caught a scent and it

0:23:33.196 --> 0:23:35.996
<v Speaker 11>went up on the trail going toward the Burkehart Trail

0:23:36.036 --> 0:23:38.716
<v Speaker 11>and we had talked about someone saying they heard a gunshot.

0:23:39.396 --> 0:23:42.516
<v Speaker 11>You can't see the house from here, but it's like

0:23:43.236 --> 0:23:45.556
<v Speaker 11>a half mile below the trail up there where the

0:23:45.556 --> 0:23:46.676
<v Speaker 11>people lived that said.

0:23:46.516 --> 0:23:51.236
<v Speaker 5>They heard that the dogs pick up a scent, possibly Aujay's,

0:23:51.716 --> 0:23:55.276
<v Speaker 5>on a trail that's near a local resident. That guy

0:23:55.356 --> 0:23:58.076
<v Speaker 5>reported the searchers that he heard a single gunshot at

0:23:58.116 --> 0:24:02.316
<v Speaker 5>sunset the day Auja vanished. It's a detail the Sheriff's

0:24:02.316 --> 0:24:04.396
<v Speaker 5>department registers as a potential clue.

0:24:05.516 --> 0:24:08.076
<v Speaker 11>So I took a group of deputies over there and

0:24:08.116 --> 0:24:10.796
<v Speaker 11>we went out really rugged wooded canyon.

0:24:11.316 --> 0:24:15.876
<v Speaker 5>They didn't find anything, but searchers do spot some footprints

0:24:15.876 --> 0:24:18.436
<v Speaker 5>on the mountain where auj told people he was going.

0:24:19.396 --> 0:24:22.756
<v Speaker 5>So Auja's captain, Mike Bauer, takes to the skies to

0:24:22.796 --> 0:24:23.596
<v Speaker 5>see where they lead.

0:24:24.996 --> 0:24:26.956
<v Speaker 6>And that was the first time I ever stepped out

0:24:26.956 --> 0:24:30.476
<v Speaker 6>of a huge helicopter on the side of a mountain

0:24:31.476 --> 0:24:35.636
<v Speaker 6>with one skid touching, And then that helicopter flew off

0:24:35.996 --> 0:24:39.596
<v Speaker 6>while we examined the openings of Big Horn Mine to

0:24:39.636 --> 0:24:41.716
<v Speaker 6>see whether or not it had been broken into.

0:24:42.876 --> 0:24:44.956
<v Speaker 5>Big Horn is a mine on top of the mountain

0:24:45.276 --> 0:24:48.316
<v Speaker 5>leftover from the gold rush days. Its entrance has been

0:24:48.356 --> 0:24:51.996
<v Speaker 5>welded shut to keep out hikers, and when the helicopter lands,

0:24:52.236 --> 0:24:56.476
<v Speaker 5>nineties action movie style Bowers crew finds no signs of

0:24:56.516 --> 0:25:01.996
<v Speaker 5>a break in Aujay's reported missing late Thursday night. By

0:25:02.036 --> 0:25:04.996
<v Speaker 5>the end of the day Sunday, the Sheriff's Department kicks

0:25:05.036 --> 0:25:08.516
<v Speaker 5>things into high gear. They call in the US Army,

0:25:08.636 --> 0:25:12.956
<v Speaker 5>an air force. Along with the LSD heavy hitters, it's

0:25:12.996 --> 0:25:17.596
<v Speaker 5>a specialized squad called Emergency Services Detail or ESD.

0:25:19.236 --> 0:25:22.596
<v Speaker 4>They do search and rescue, underwater search and recovery, and

0:25:22.676 --> 0:25:27.276
<v Speaker 4>they support the special Weapons team with medical skills.

0:25:28.516 --> 0:25:31.836
<v Speaker 5>Dave Rathbin was one of the ESD members sent out

0:25:31.836 --> 0:25:32.516
<v Speaker 5>to search.

0:25:32.276 --> 0:25:36.396
<v Speaker 4>For Aj and the adrenaline that you get from ESD

0:25:36.516 --> 0:25:38.876
<v Speaker 4>is different from any other adrenaline.

0:25:40.036 --> 0:25:44.356
<v Speaker 5>ESD deputies are equipped to handle all types of emergency scenarios.

0:25:45.116 --> 0:25:47.996
<v Speaker 5>But it wasn't just the rocky ledges and wild animals

0:25:48.036 --> 0:25:50.876
<v Speaker 5>they had to worry about here. The area was full

0:25:50.956 --> 0:25:54.596
<v Speaker 5>of all kinds of criminal activity.

0:25:55.276 --> 0:25:59.436
<v Speaker 4>One of the things they told our search teams on

0:25:59.596 --> 0:26:05.556
<v Speaker 4>day one was John may have stumbled into a meth

0:26:05.676 --> 0:26:09.476
<v Speaker 4>lab by accident. So that was told to us when

0:26:09.476 --> 0:26:11.916
<v Speaker 4>we were out searching, and the reason they told us

0:26:12.156 --> 0:26:14.236
<v Speaker 4>is they recommend that we take weapons.

0:26:15.476 --> 0:26:17.716
<v Speaker 5>Rathmann and his team of searchers come to the punch

0:26:17.756 --> 0:26:22.396
<v Speaker 5>Bowl armed and ready for action, because maybe Auj isn't

0:26:22.436 --> 0:26:26.756
<v Speaker 5>lost or injured or running for the hills. Maybe he's

0:26:26.796 --> 0:26:30.596
<v Speaker 5>the victim of foul play. The command post doesn't expand

0:26:30.636 --> 0:26:32.956
<v Speaker 5>on why they thought Auj may have been taken out

0:26:32.956 --> 0:26:37.236
<v Speaker 5>by meth related violence, but to Rathbun this theory doesn't

0:26:37.276 --> 0:26:41.316
<v Speaker 5>sound too far fetched. Because the Anelo Valley is isolated

0:26:41.716 --> 0:26:46.396
<v Speaker 5>outlaws and on account of its size, difficult to police.

0:26:47.916 --> 0:26:51.316
<v Speaker 4>There are a lot of people who just don't want

0:26:51.356 --> 0:26:54.356
<v Speaker 4>to be around other human beings out there, which makes

0:26:54.396 --> 0:27:00.436
<v Speaker 4>them sometimes dangerous. There's people cooking meth. Ah. It was

0:27:00.516 --> 0:27:04.196
<v Speaker 4>a little bit like the Old West in a way.

0:27:04.236 --> 0:27:08.316
<v Speaker 4>I mean, this is a very unusual, strange place.

0:27:09.396 --> 0:27:13.156
<v Speaker 5>And remember that abandoned mine searcher scoped out. Well, it

0:27:13.196 --> 0:27:16.716
<v Speaker 5>turns out they're everywhere and they are a prime location

0:27:17.156 --> 0:27:18.196
<v Speaker 5>for body dumping.

0:27:19.596 --> 0:27:23.076
<v Speaker 4>One of the things ESD did was recover dead bodies

0:27:23.116 --> 0:27:24.116
<v Speaker 4>from mines.

0:27:25.036 --> 0:27:28.356
<v Speaker 5>And it wasn't just the mines. Corpses turn up all

0:27:28.396 --> 0:27:29.316
<v Speaker 5>over these parts.

0:27:30.596 --> 0:27:32.476
<v Speaker 4>You know, if all the dead bodies that were up

0:27:32.516 --> 0:27:35.796
<v Speaker 4>there from being deliberately disposed of, stood up, and once

0:27:35.796 --> 0:27:37.116
<v Speaker 4>they'd be shoulder to shoulder.

0:27:39.516 --> 0:27:43.716
<v Speaker 5>It's a chilling image of the area's darker side. Auj

0:27:43.836 --> 0:27:46.676
<v Speaker 5>would jog from the Devil's Punch Bowl into the Angelus

0:27:46.796 --> 0:27:50.196
<v Speaker 5>National Forest, which has been called the most dangerous national

0:27:50.196 --> 0:27:53.876
<v Speaker 5>forest in America. Around the time of Auji's disappearance, it's

0:27:53.996 --> 0:27:56.956
<v Speaker 5>estimated that two to three dozen corpses turned up in

0:27:56.996 --> 0:27:59.796
<v Speaker 5>the forest every year, and those were just the ones

0:27:59.836 --> 0:28:03.796
<v Speaker 5>that were found. So Rathman understands the danger he faces,

0:28:04.436 --> 0:28:07.956
<v Speaker 5>but pushes on. In search of footprints, you have to.

0:28:07.996 --> 0:28:10.916
<v Speaker 4>Look at the ground and look at bushes that have

0:28:10.996 --> 0:28:13.356
<v Speaker 4>been pushed in. We walked and walked and walked and

0:28:13.396 --> 0:28:16.036
<v Speaker 4>walked and walked and walked, and we generally don't give

0:28:16.156 --> 0:28:19.396
<v Speaker 4>up until it's just ridiculous.

0:28:20.716 --> 0:28:25.516
<v Speaker 2>The search is taxing for Rathban physically and emotionally, because

0:28:25.556 --> 0:28:27.636
<v Speaker 2>he and Auj were friends, and back in the early

0:28:27.756 --> 0:28:30.156
<v Speaker 2>nineties they were even partners.

0:28:30.676 --> 0:28:32.836
<v Speaker 4>If it was me that needed cover, he'd be there.

0:28:33.196 --> 0:28:36.836
<v Speaker 4>Kind didn't even think about it, someone you could definitely

0:28:36.836 --> 0:28:37.316
<v Speaker 4>depend on.

0:28:39.076 --> 0:28:41.996
<v Speaker 2>Rathbin and Auj spent a lot of time driving around together,

0:28:42.796 --> 0:28:45.356
<v Speaker 2>but they didn't sit around riffing like partners in a

0:28:45.356 --> 0:28:46.236
<v Speaker 2>buddy cop movie.

0:28:47.516 --> 0:28:51.836
<v Speaker 4>He was laconic, didn't have a lot to say unless

0:28:51.876 --> 0:28:56.556
<v Speaker 4>you worked on him, and he was always kind of

0:28:56.596 --> 0:28:58.636
<v Speaker 4>severe serious.

0:28:59.196 --> 0:29:02.796
<v Speaker 2>Auj was hardly two dimensional, though he used his dead

0:29:02.836 --> 0:29:05.356
<v Speaker 2>pan personality to mess with people.

0:29:06.716 --> 0:29:11.236
<v Speaker 4>He had this secret sense of humor, but it was

0:29:11.276 --> 0:29:14.196
<v Speaker 4>really hard to tell which card he was playing, the

0:29:14.276 --> 0:29:17.516
<v Speaker 4>funny card or the I'm John and I'm dead serious card.

0:29:19.716 --> 0:29:22.556
<v Speaker 2>One time, Rathbin and Auj had to chase down a suspect.

0:29:23.316 --> 0:29:26.076
<v Speaker 2>Rathbn was driving and he ends up reversing down a

0:29:26.076 --> 0:29:29.836
<v Speaker 2>one way street. They got the guy, but Auj.

0:29:29.756 --> 0:29:33.396
<v Speaker 4>Looked pissed, and he added that Dave, I need to

0:29:33.436 --> 0:29:33.916
<v Speaker 4>talk to you.

0:29:35.436 --> 0:29:39.636
<v Speaker 2>Rathven's gotten pretty good and impersonating John Auj's baritone voice,

0:29:40.436 --> 0:29:42.436
<v Speaker 2>he says he sounded a lot like Lurch from the

0:29:42.436 --> 0:29:43.236
<v Speaker 2>Adams family.

0:29:44.316 --> 0:29:48.596
<v Speaker 4>What you just did was a violation of California state law,

0:29:49.596 --> 0:29:51.556
<v Speaker 4>and if you do something like that again, I'll have

0:29:51.596 --> 0:29:55.836
<v Speaker 4>to write you up. John. We were chasing a suspect,

0:29:55.876 --> 0:29:59.276
<v Speaker 4>and we are law enforcement officers and so we get

0:29:59.316 --> 0:30:04.756
<v Speaker 4>exemptions during those things. That may be true, but it

0:30:04.796 --> 0:30:10.476
<v Speaker 4>was illegal. Is this John being funny? You would not know,

0:30:11.076 --> 0:30:12.356
<v Speaker 4>and he will never let you know.

0:30:15.276 --> 0:30:19.756
<v Speaker 2>Auj was hard to read. In fact, there's even confusion

0:30:19.836 --> 0:30:23.756
<v Speaker 2>over the pronunciation of his last name. His family says Oj,

0:30:24.596 --> 0:30:25.876
<v Speaker 2>but to his friends.

0:30:26.316 --> 0:30:29.676
<v Speaker 4>It was Auj and he never corrected us, and he's

0:30:29.676 --> 0:30:30.636
<v Speaker 4>not very bashful.

0:30:32.276 --> 0:30:34.476
<v Speaker 2>We'll never know why he didn't tell people how to

0:30:34.516 --> 0:30:37.956
<v Speaker 2>pronounce his name, but it seems fitting for someone who

0:30:37.996 --> 0:30:42.036
<v Speaker 2>remains a mystery to so many. Auj was an enigma

0:30:42.116 --> 0:30:45.236
<v Speaker 2>to just about everyone around him, so when he disappeared,

0:30:45.436 --> 0:30:49.876
<v Speaker 2>he became an easy target for conspiracy theories. Stories began

0:30:49.956 --> 0:30:53.236
<v Speaker 2>to circulate that Aujy's alive and well, living in Alaska.

0:30:53.596 --> 0:30:56.956
<v Speaker 2>Others say Mexico. Some say he was recruited by a

0:30:56.996 --> 0:31:01.996
<v Speaker 2>mercenary group or join the CIA. These theories were fueled

0:31:01.996 --> 0:31:05.756
<v Speaker 2>by weird comments aj had made to friends like Dave rathmun.

0:31:06.916 --> 0:31:13.356
<v Speaker 4>Dave, Yes, you guys think you can find people with

0:31:13.476 --> 0:31:15.636
<v Speaker 4>your searches, and you think you're pretty good at it.

0:31:15.756 --> 0:31:15.996
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:31:17.316 --> 0:31:19.876
<v Speaker 4>I could go on the mountains and you'd never find me.

0:31:21.156 --> 0:31:23.476
<v Speaker 4>And I said, there are people who want to be

0:31:23.556 --> 0:31:26.916
<v Speaker 4>found that we can't find. So I'm not really impressed

0:31:26.996 --> 0:31:32.276
<v Speaker 4>with your with your declaration there if you don't want

0:31:32.316 --> 0:31:35.196
<v Speaker 4>to be found. Pretty sure I wouldn't be able to

0:31:35.236 --> 0:31:36.796
<v Speaker 4>find you, so I agree.

0:31:37.396 --> 0:31:40.876
<v Speaker 2>And of course that conversation takes on extra meaning a

0:31:40.996 --> 0:31:43.076
<v Speaker 2>searchers keep coming up empty handed.

0:31:43.996 --> 0:31:47.716
<v Speaker 4>I participated in that search until my feet were bloody,

0:31:48.476 --> 0:31:53.556
<v Speaker 4>as did several of my peers. But day six they said,

0:31:53.596 --> 0:31:56.476
<v Speaker 4>well shut it down. What do you mean shut it down?

0:31:57.796 --> 0:32:00.436
<v Speaker 4>Who said that? Who gave that order? And shut this

0:32:00.476 --> 0:32:01.636
<v Speaker 4>thing down? What are you talking about?

0:32:01.716 --> 0:32:05.716
<v Speaker 2>Day six, the Sheriff's department folds the search after six

0:32:05.836 --> 0:32:09.556
<v Speaker 2>days and gives a statement to the press. Sergeant Sour,

0:32:09.676 --> 0:32:13.636
<v Speaker 2>one of the deputies overseeing the operation, says, quote, A

0:32:13.636 --> 0:32:16.116
<v Speaker 2>good analogy would be someone coming up to you and

0:32:16.156 --> 0:32:18.796
<v Speaker 2>giving you two to three pieces of a five hundred

0:32:18.796 --> 0:32:21.596
<v Speaker 2>piece puzzle and asking you to guess what the picture is.

0:32:22.556 --> 0:32:25.916
<v Speaker 2>Throw into that a few pieces of an entirely different puzzle,

0:32:26.436 --> 0:32:29.276
<v Speaker 2>and that is what we work with. We might never

0:32:29.276 --> 0:32:31.116
<v Speaker 2>get it right. End quote.

0:32:32.116 --> 0:32:34.956
<v Speaker 4>You want to trust the department that they're doing the

0:32:35.036 --> 0:32:38.196
<v Speaker 4>right thing, But no one asked us if we should

0:32:38.196 --> 0:32:41.436
<v Speaker 4>shut it down. If I'm the search and rescue guy,

0:32:42.596 --> 0:32:45.356
<v Speaker 4>and my partners are search and rescue guys, and the

0:32:45.356 --> 0:32:48.436
<v Speaker 4>helicopter pilots have been on hundreds of searches. Why are

0:32:48.476 --> 0:32:50.956
<v Speaker 4>we asking them what they think and their input?

0:32:52.116 --> 0:32:55.636
<v Speaker 2>Rathman says searches for missing hikers typically last seven to

0:32:55.676 --> 0:32:59.756
<v Speaker 2>fourteen days, depending on the viability of the person. Paul

0:32:59.836 --> 0:33:03.196
<v Speaker 2>Jay was not your typical hiker, and given his personal

0:33:03.236 --> 0:33:06.836
<v Speaker 2>and professional connection to the Sheriff's Department, it seems like

0:33:06.876 --> 0:33:09.516
<v Speaker 2>the LASD would go the extra mile to find it.

0:33:10.516 --> 0:33:14.076
<v Speaker 4>So it's six days you cancel a search for somebody

0:33:14.076 --> 0:33:17.356
<v Speaker 4>who can run fifty or one hundred miles in the wilderness,

0:33:18.476 --> 0:33:21.556
<v Speaker 4>really knows the wilderness as good or better than anybody

0:33:21.636 --> 0:33:24.196
<v Speaker 4>in ESD. They just set it down. Why are you

0:33:24.196 --> 0:33:24.876
<v Speaker 4>setting it down?

0:33:26.276 --> 0:33:29.916
<v Speaker 2>The Sheriff's Department tells the public that Aujay disappeared without

0:33:29.916 --> 0:33:33.156
<v Speaker 2>a trace and that they're ending the search because they're

0:33:33.156 --> 0:33:37.116
<v Speaker 2>just spinning their wheels. But behind the scenes, they're telling

0:33:37.236 --> 0:33:38.596
<v Speaker 2>a very different story.

0:33:39.676 --> 0:34:00.916
<v Speaker 13>Well, they say that they decided he committed suicide.

0:34:09.476 --> 0:34:12.956
<v Speaker 5>LASD reports claaning that Auj was distraught over his failing

0:34:12.956 --> 0:34:15.356
<v Speaker 5>marriage and took his own life in the punch bowl.

0:34:16.516 --> 0:34:19.476
<v Speaker 5>That gunshot the area resident heard that could have been

0:34:19.476 --> 0:34:21.996
<v Speaker 5>the sound of Auj just putting an end to it all.

0:34:23.236 --> 0:34:26.476
<v Speaker 5>But the Sheriff's department makes that determination. Without a body.

0:34:27.076 --> 0:34:31.476
<v Speaker 5>They don't find any remains, blood, bullets, or a suicide note.

0:34:32.116 --> 0:34:32.516
<v Speaker 4>Nothing.

0:34:33.596 --> 0:34:35.436
<v Speaker 5>The only thing they think they may have found of

0:34:35.436 --> 0:34:38.356
<v Speaker 5>Aujay's was an energy bar wrapper left on one of

0:34:38.396 --> 0:34:41.636
<v Speaker 5>the trails. From what we can tell, there's not a

0:34:41.676 --> 0:34:44.956
<v Speaker 5>lot pointing to suicide, so we reach out to Aujay's

0:34:44.956 --> 0:34:47.036
<v Speaker 5>colleagues and friends to get their thoughts.

0:34:47.996 --> 0:34:51.596
<v Speaker 15>He was obviously down, he was obviously upset, but was

0:34:51.676 --> 0:34:53.116
<v Speaker 15>it enough to commit suicide?

0:34:54.356 --> 0:34:57.436
<v Speaker 5>Sergeant Vince Burden is still on the fence. On the

0:34:57.476 --> 0:35:00.796
<v Speaker 5>one hand, Aj did appear torn up over his marital problems.

0:35:01.516 --> 0:35:03.516
<v Speaker 5>On the other he seemed to be coping.

0:35:04.476 --> 0:35:08.116
<v Speaker 15>Would you be telling me about your ultra marathon if

0:35:08.116 --> 0:35:10.516
<v Speaker 15>you were just going to end at all? Would you

0:35:10.596 --> 0:35:13.516
<v Speaker 15>even be planning to go run at the punch Bowl,

0:35:13.556 --> 0:35:15.076
<v Speaker 15>which is an ugly area? Anyway?

0:35:15.876 --> 0:35:18.196
<v Speaker 5>For fact checking purposes, we want to make clear the

0:35:18.236 --> 0:35:21.836
<v Speaker 5>punch Bowl is not ugly, But go on, Vince.

0:35:22.196 --> 0:35:24.436
<v Speaker 15>None of that made sense to me. With the suicide.

0:35:25.556 --> 0:35:30.956
<v Speaker 5>Frady's running buddy, Randy Meggerley, there's no question playing simple.

0:35:31.236 --> 0:35:32.396
<v Speaker 4>I think he killed himself.

0:35:32.716 --> 0:35:34.276
<v Speaker 12>That's the only way I can explain it.

0:35:35.116 --> 0:35:38.716
<v Speaker 5>Because he says Auj was acting strangely, even more strangely

0:35:38.756 --> 0:35:41.316
<v Speaker 5>than usual in the weeks before his disappearance.

0:35:42.116 --> 0:35:45.076
<v Speaker 12>He says, you know, there's a bunch of caves and

0:35:45.116 --> 0:35:49.436
<v Speaker 12>stuff out here, you can pretty much disappear, I think

0:35:49.636 --> 0:35:52.316
<v Speaker 12>was the word that he used, and nobody would ever

0:35:52.356 --> 0:35:52.836
<v Speaker 12>find yet.

0:35:54.276 --> 0:35:57.876
<v Speaker 5>Auj said similar things to Dave Rathman, but he didn't

0:35:57.876 --> 0:35:59.836
<v Speaker 5>put a lot of stock into any of the statements

0:36:00.436 --> 0:36:03.236
<v Speaker 5>because he says, Aujay is just a weird guy.

0:36:04.476 --> 0:36:08.076
<v Speaker 4>Our unit was next to a big, giant duck pond,

0:36:08.116 --> 0:36:10.156
<v Speaker 4>and one of the ways we used to make jokes

0:36:10.156 --> 0:36:12.276
<v Speaker 4>about each other is kind of like, where do you

0:36:12.316 --> 0:36:15.916
<v Speaker 4>fit in the duck pond? John was an I don't

0:36:16.116 --> 0:36:18.756
<v Speaker 4>malign him, but he was one of the oddest ducks

0:36:18.756 --> 0:36:21.396
<v Speaker 4>in the punk which is good, right. You need him,

0:36:21.556 --> 0:36:23.396
<v Speaker 4>you don't want everybody swim in the.

0:36:23.356 --> 0:36:28.916
<v Speaker 5>Same Initially, Rathmin was open to the possibility of suicide,

0:36:29.436 --> 0:36:33.636
<v Speaker 5>but he's become increasingly skeptical over time because if Aja

0:36:33.796 --> 0:36:37.236
<v Speaker 5>had killed himself, he thinks his body or some trace

0:36:37.236 --> 0:36:40.716
<v Speaker 5>of him would have turned up by now. So Auji's

0:36:40.716 --> 0:36:44.076
<v Speaker 5>colleagues are divided on what happened to him. It's kind

0:36:44.076 --> 0:36:45.916
<v Speaker 5>of like those faces seen in the rocks at the

0:36:45.956 --> 0:36:50.316
<v Speaker 5>Devil's punch Bowl. Same details but interpreted in different ways.

0:36:51.756 --> 0:36:55.236
<v Speaker 5>And that makes sense because we feel conflicted about it too.

0:36:56.236 --> 0:36:59.876
<v Speaker 5>Auja did say some eerie things about disappearing, but this

0:36:59.996 --> 0:37:03.476
<v Speaker 5>disappearing act would be pretty hard to pull off. I mean,

0:37:03.516 --> 0:37:06.076
<v Speaker 5>how could he have buried himself and stay buried for

0:37:06.156 --> 0:37:12.076
<v Speaker 5>almost three decades? Rathmin asked the Sheriff's department to explain

0:37:12.156 --> 0:37:12.516
<v Speaker 5>that one.

0:37:13.396 --> 0:37:16.036
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so well, we think he might have sat on

0:37:16.116 --> 0:37:19.116
<v Speaker 4>the edge of one of those minds and blown himself

0:37:19.156 --> 0:37:24.916
<v Speaker 4>into the mind thinking, okay, we are really stretching now

0:37:25.156 --> 0:37:30.836
<v Speaker 4>for an explanation as to whine we can't find him.

0:37:30.876 --> 0:37:36.316
<v Speaker 6>I didn't accept it. Just common sense told me you

0:37:36.396 --> 0:37:39.316
<v Speaker 6>probably ought to see whether there's any evidence of self infliction.

0:37:41.116 --> 0:37:44.796
<v Speaker 2>Pissed off old cop Mike Bauer is evangelical in his

0:37:44.876 --> 0:37:49.276
<v Speaker 2>belief that the suicide theory is bullshit, because he says

0:37:49.636 --> 0:37:53.636
<v Speaker 2>the Sheriff's Department didn't arrive at this conclusion, they led

0:37:53.676 --> 0:37:57.396
<v Speaker 2>with it, and that poisoned the investigation from the start.

0:37:58.676 --> 0:38:01.636
<v Speaker 2>Bower says that as early as day three, an LASD

0:38:01.756 --> 0:38:05.916
<v Speaker 2>official was pushing the suicide narrative during search team briefings.

0:38:06.396 --> 0:38:10.276
<v Speaker 2>To Bauer, this was equivalent to telling search to let up.

0:38:11.716 --> 0:38:15.516
<v Speaker 6>I took that person outside, and I said, what in

0:38:15.556 --> 0:38:18.476
<v Speaker 6>the hell did you say that for? How could you

0:38:18.556 --> 0:38:20.196
<v Speaker 6>possibly know that at this point?

0:38:21.076 --> 0:38:21.636
<v Speaker 4>How could you.

0:38:21.636 --> 0:38:25.556
<v Speaker 6>Possibly discourage them to search for somebody that worked for you.

0:38:26.956 --> 0:38:30.436
<v Speaker 2>The Sheriff's department was even sharing this theory with the press.

0:38:30.876 --> 0:38:33.516
<v Speaker 8>We haven't ruled out the possibility of suicide, but we

0:38:33.556 --> 0:38:35.676
<v Speaker 8>don't have any evidence to support that. That's what he

0:38:35.716 --> 0:38:36.316
<v Speaker 8>came here to do.

0:38:37.596 --> 0:38:40.636
<v Speaker 2>Now are things that's irresponsible to promote the suicide theory

0:38:40.676 --> 0:38:43.636
<v Speaker 2>without a high degree of certainty. So he prodded the

0:38:43.636 --> 0:38:45.236
<v Speaker 2>department to keep investigating.

0:38:46.156 --> 0:38:51.116
<v Speaker 6>I kept contacting homicide and saying something's wrong. I'm telling

0:38:51.156 --> 0:38:52.916
<v Speaker 6>you there's a problem.

0:38:53.316 --> 0:38:55.636
<v Speaker 2>But he says, the department ignored the case to such

0:38:55.636 --> 0:38:58.716
<v Speaker 2>an extent that he began to question their motives.

0:38:59.396 --> 0:39:02.436
<v Speaker 6>Nobody was in charge of it, and nobody wanted any

0:39:02.476 --> 0:39:05.756
<v Speaker 6>of it once they saw how stinky it was getting.

0:39:10.276 --> 0:39:14.076
<v Speaker 5>Randy Meggridley represents the other end of the spectrum, so

0:39:14.076 --> 0:39:16.756
<v Speaker 5>we ask him what he thinks about the possibility of

0:39:16.796 --> 0:39:17.436
<v Speaker 5>foul play.

0:39:18.476 --> 0:39:21.156
<v Speaker 12>I refer to myself as a mushroom they just feed

0:39:21.196 --> 0:39:23.076
<v Speaker 12>me a little bit of poop every once in a while.

0:39:23.436 --> 0:39:25.756
<v Speaker 12>I wasn't in the know on that whole thing.

0:39:26.396 --> 0:39:28.596
<v Speaker 5>I've never heard the mushroom poop bataphor before.

0:39:28.916 --> 0:39:30.996
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, yeah, you seed you a little bit of poopy,

0:39:31.596 --> 0:39:32.556
<v Speaker 12>you grow a little bit.

0:39:35.156 --> 0:39:38.396
<v Speaker 5>At first, the mushroom poop analogy went way over my head.

0:39:38.996 --> 0:39:41.716
<v Speaker 5>It sounded like a Southern expression. My mom just forgot

0:39:41.756 --> 0:39:44.836
<v Speaker 5>to teach me. But then it clicked while I was

0:39:44.876 --> 0:39:48.756
<v Speaker 5>watching The Departed, the Martin Scorsese movie about corruption within

0:39:48.796 --> 0:39:50.156
<v Speaker 5>the Boston Police Department.

0:39:50.916 --> 0:39:53.796
<v Speaker 10>My theory, Unfeeds is they're like mushrooms, feed him shit

0:39:53.836 --> 0:39:54.596
<v Speaker 10>and keep them in the dock.

0:39:56.116 --> 0:39:58.636
<v Speaker 5>I think what Meggridley is saying is that he doesn't

0:39:58.676 --> 0:40:01.156
<v Speaker 5>ask a lot of questions because he prefers to be

0:40:01.236 --> 0:40:03.796
<v Speaker 5>kept in the dark about things that don't concern him

0:40:04.596 --> 0:40:07.676
<v Speaker 5>and who can really blame him? I mean, law enforcement

0:40:07.676 --> 0:40:11.516
<v Speaker 5>agencies are not exactly known for their culture of transparency.

0:40:12.676 --> 0:40:16.636
<v Speaker 4>That file. You'd have to get special, special permission to

0:40:16.636 --> 0:40:17.436
<v Speaker 4>touch that file.

0:40:18.636 --> 0:40:22.556
<v Speaker 5>Dave Rathman, Auji's former partner, says the Sheriff's department is

0:40:22.676 --> 0:40:26.676
<v Speaker 5>unusually protective of the auj case file, and they.

0:40:26.596 --> 0:40:30.876
<v Speaker 4>Don't even like to hear you talking about it. Well,

0:40:31.516 --> 0:40:35.436
<v Speaker 4>to me, that's what you would call a red flag.

0:40:37.636 --> 0:40:41.076
<v Speaker 5>So Rathman asked his buddy, a retired detective working cold

0:40:41.076 --> 0:40:44.076
<v Speaker 5>cases for the Sheriff's apartment, to review the AUJ case.

0:40:45.156 --> 0:40:48.796
<v Speaker 4>Could you maybe grab that case file? And he went,

0:40:48.836 --> 0:40:52.156
<v Speaker 4>oh no. I said, what do you mean, Oh no.

0:40:53.276 --> 0:40:55.396
<v Speaker 4>Why wouldn't you want to take a look at it?

0:40:55.516 --> 0:40:57.676
<v Speaker 4>He said, no, that's a hot potato. No one's allowed

0:40:57.676 --> 0:41:00.236
<v Speaker 4>to touch that. If I start poking around that case,

0:41:00.876 --> 0:41:04.756
<v Speaker 4>they'd let me go. I said, well, that's interesting. Why

0:41:04.796 --> 0:41:09.596
<v Speaker 4>it's a suicide. He said, I don't know. I just

0:41:09.756 --> 0:41:12.156
<v Speaker 4>know that that case can't be touched.

0:41:14.156 --> 0:41:17.516
<v Speaker 5>Those red flags are another reason Rathbin and others just

0:41:17.676 --> 0:41:20.436
<v Speaker 5>can't get behind the party line.

0:41:20.716 --> 0:41:23.836
<v Speaker 4>As my father would say, God bless him. There's something

0:41:23.916 --> 0:41:28.316
<v Speaker 4>rotten in the woodpile and it stinks and I can.

0:41:28.196 --> 0:41:34.196
<v Speaker 5>Smell it, and that brings us back to the poop mushroom.

0:41:34.636 --> 0:41:37.876
<v Speaker 5>It might thrive in darkness, but to me, that's not

0:41:37.996 --> 0:41:42.076
<v Speaker 5>an ideal environment for policing. I mean, the whole concept

0:41:42.156 --> 0:41:47.316
<v Speaker 5>behind law enforcement isn't watchfulized deter crime, right, But who

0:41:47.396 --> 0:41:50.556
<v Speaker 5>is watching the police? There's very little oversight of law

0:41:50.636 --> 0:41:54.036
<v Speaker 5>enforcement agencies, and it's hard to hold them accountable since

0:41:54.156 --> 0:41:58.236
<v Speaker 5>they control the collection and release of information about internal problems.

0:41:58.876 --> 0:42:01.636
<v Speaker 6>The philosophy of the Sheriff's Department is to hide it,

0:42:02.436 --> 0:42:04.996
<v Speaker 6>and the philosophy of government in a lot of respects

0:42:05.556 --> 0:42:08.236
<v Speaker 6>is that way. Now, with the terrible way they handle

0:42:08.356 --> 0:42:12.396
<v Speaker 6>public records quests and stuff, they just basically stonewall you.

0:42:12.556 --> 0:42:14.996
<v Speaker 6>They give you the middle finger. If you're asking for

0:42:15.036 --> 0:42:16.796
<v Speaker 6>something that the public has a right to know.

0:42:18.796 --> 0:42:21.996
<v Speaker 2>Tell me about it, Bauer, we tried with those public

0:42:21.996 --> 0:42:26.476
<v Speaker 2>records requests and got the proverbial middle finger. Without access

0:42:26.476 --> 0:42:28.876
<v Speaker 2>to the information, it's hard for us to know how

0:42:28.956 --> 0:42:32.796
<v Speaker 2>the Sheriff's department handled the Auj case, and we'd remain

0:42:32.876 --> 0:42:35.196
<v Speaker 2>in the dark if it weren't for Mike Bauer and

0:42:35.276 --> 0:42:41.716
<v Speaker 2>other deputies coming forward. Bauer retired in two thousand and

0:42:41.756 --> 0:42:44.116
<v Speaker 2>two and has spent the better part of his retirement

0:42:44.236 --> 0:42:49.156
<v Speaker 2>investigating Auj's disappearance, and he's uncovered what looks like some

0:42:49.236 --> 0:42:51.956
<v Speaker 2>pretty damning information about the Sheriff's Department.

0:42:52.916 --> 0:42:53.596
<v Speaker 4>They lied to me.

0:42:53.796 --> 0:42:55.596
<v Speaker 6>They lied to me, as a fucking captain of the

0:42:55.636 --> 0:42:57.956
<v Speaker 6>fucking sheriff's department, with thirty three years on the job.

0:42:58.076 --> 0:43:01.276
<v Speaker 6>They fucking lie to me while I'm in charge of

0:43:01.356 --> 0:43:04.116
<v Speaker 6>Sheriff's intelligence. They're fucking lying to me about what they're

0:43:04.156 --> 0:43:06.756
<v Speaker 6>doing in homicide to shut this thing up. They don't

0:43:06.756 --> 0:43:07.716
<v Speaker 6>want me involved in it.

0:43:09.236 --> 0:43:12.076
<v Speaker 4>Oh imagine that's how.

0:43:11.956 --> 0:43:12.836
<v Speaker 6>Fancy that is.

0:43:14.996 --> 0:43:18.276
<v Speaker 2>We know that law enforcement has its problems, but they're

0:43:18.316 --> 0:43:20.756
<v Speaker 2>not usually laid out for us by dyed in the

0:43:20.796 --> 0:43:24.636
<v Speaker 2>wool cops, people who know this world from the inside

0:43:25.036 --> 0:43:28.516
<v Speaker 2>and can show us where the bodies are buried. Figuratively speaking,

0:43:29.716 --> 0:43:31.516
<v Speaker 2>we tell Bauer we want to do a deep dive

0:43:31.556 --> 0:43:34.596
<v Speaker 2>on the Aujy case, beginning with his investigation.

0:43:36.356 --> 0:43:39.116
<v Speaker 6>You guys have stumbled into a cluster of shit.

0:43:40.716 --> 0:43:43.316
<v Speaker 2>But he's not as encouraging as we expect him to be,

0:43:44.636 --> 0:43:45.716
<v Speaker 2>and for good reason.

0:43:46.676 --> 0:43:49.396
<v Speaker 5>Do you have any advice for us while looking into

0:43:49.476 --> 0:43:50.596
<v Speaker 5>this disappearance.

0:43:52.396 --> 0:43:56.756
<v Speaker 6>I wouldn't do it alone. In the event somebody did

0:43:56.836 --> 0:43:59.516
<v Speaker 6>decide that you were getting too close to something, you

0:43:59.596 --> 0:44:04.196
<v Speaker 6>will not be found killed. You will simply disappear.

0:44:10.516 --> 0:44:13.196
<v Speaker 2>This season on Valley of Shadows.

0:44:13.356 --> 0:44:16.996
<v Speaker 4>Early on, I let the suicide theory sit at fifty

0:44:16.996 --> 0:44:21.636
<v Speaker 4>to fifty. As I've learned more and more, I'm at

0:44:21.676 --> 0:44:27.796
<v Speaker 4>about ninety five murder five to ten percent suicide.

0:44:28.036 --> 0:44:30.596
<v Speaker 5>They ruler around the drug scene.

0:44:31.116 --> 0:44:34.876
<v Speaker 14>Was that a deputy stumbled onto something he shouldn't of

0:44:35.676 --> 0:44:36.996
<v Speaker 14>and he was taken care of.

0:44:37.836 --> 0:44:39.916
<v Speaker 4>I'm here, it's fill on the street minute, Augie.

0:44:40.236 --> 0:44:41.236
<v Speaker 5>He didn't kid suicide.

0:44:41.236 --> 0:44:41.956
<v Speaker 12>He was murdered.

0:44:42.076 --> 0:44:44.716
<v Speaker 4>I'm hearing for more more in person, and I started

0:44:44.716 --> 0:44:47.356
<v Speaker 4>hearing some rumors that there was a.

0:44:47.316 --> 0:44:52.036
<v Speaker 14>Gun, and yet there's no indication that gun was ever

0:44:52.036 --> 0:44:52.956
<v Speaker 14>booked into evidence.

0:44:53.476 --> 0:44:55.236
<v Speaker 10>If you rat it or they thought you were gonna

0:44:55.316 --> 0:44:59.796
<v Speaker 10>rat it wasn't. Hey, don't do that ever again. You're done.

0:45:00.076 --> 0:45:02.156
<v Speaker 10>They got rid of you. So that's where the murders

0:45:02.156 --> 0:45:02.476
<v Speaker 10>came in.

0:45:03.196 --> 0:45:06.516
<v Speaker 2>He was describing with his hands and his arms and

0:45:06.556 --> 0:45:09.076
<v Speaker 2>his whole body where this cap was buried at.

0:45:09.916 --> 0:45:12.556
<v Speaker 6>In other words, it's not safe, not because of criminals,

0:45:12.876 --> 0:45:15.636
<v Speaker 6>it's not safe because of law enforcement. And there's nothing

0:45:15.636 --> 0:45:16.196
<v Speaker 6>worse than that.

0:45:17.076 --> 0:45:19.156
<v Speaker 2>Hey, dude, we're getting like pretty far out in the

0:45:19.196 --> 0:45:20.996
<v Speaker 2>middle of nowhere and no one knows we're out here.

0:45:21.756 --> 0:45:23.196
<v Speaker 4>You've got to be careful where you go and who

0:45:23.236 --> 0:45:23.716
<v Speaker 4>you talk to.

0:45:44.636 --> 0:45:47.476
<v Speaker 2>If you have any information or tips related to the

0:45:47.476 --> 0:45:52.196
<v Speaker 2>disappearance of John auj please call two one three two six,

0:45:52.356 --> 0:45:57.636
<v Speaker 2>two nine, eight eight nine or email Shadows at pushkin

0:45:58.036 --> 0:46:02.716
<v Speaker 2>dot Fm. Valley of Shadows is reported, written and produced

0:46:02.916 --> 0:46:07.556
<v Speaker 2>by us Haley Fox and Betsy Sheppard. Our editor is

0:46:07.596 --> 0:46:12.956
<v Speaker 2>Diane Hodson Oecutive producers are Jacob Smith and Alexandra Garreton.

0:46:13.596 --> 0:46:17.756
<v Speaker 2>Original music by Jake Gorsky, Ray Lynch, Mike Jersich, and

0:46:17.876 --> 0:46:22.876
<v Speaker 2>Hayden Gardner. Sound designed by Jake Gorsky, fact checking by

0:46:22.876 --> 0:46:28.236
<v Speaker 2>Onica Robbins. Additional production support by Sonia Gerwick and our

0:46:28.276 --> 0:46:31.756
<v Speaker 2>show art was designed by Sean Karney and Betsy Sheppard.

0:46:32.636 --> 0:46:36.876
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to Nick White for show art photography. Additional

0:46:36.916 --> 0:46:41.476
<v Speaker 2>thanks to Jeremy Tao. Valley of Shadows is a production

0:46:41.636 --> 0:46:45.996
<v Speaker 2>of Pushkin Industries. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on

0:46:46.076 --> 0:46:49.636
<v Speaker 2>the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

0:46:49.676 --> 0:46:54.396
<v Speaker 2>podcasts from Type two fun. We're Haley and Betsy. See

0:46:54.436 --> 0:46:55.036
<v Speaker 2>you next week.