WEBVTT - Sequence [14] 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.119 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.800 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.640 and do not necessarily represent those of iHeart Media, Stuff Media, 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.880 or its employees. It's so warm and conquered tonight that 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.800 people have their doors and windows open, but the police 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.840 are saying lock up tight. Sacramento's infamous East Area rapist 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.840 may still be in town. He raped a twenty nine 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.600 year old housewife near the Ignacio Valley shopping Center at 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.400 five thirty this morning. Her husband was tied up nearby 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.600 and had to listen. When you look at what the 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.600 East Area rapist was doing, he committed fifteen attacks where 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.879 he's predominantly going into houses. Women would be asleep inside 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.720 their houses. Sometimes these were mothers and their kids were 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.440 another room. This is a retired forensic scientist and cold 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.640 case investigator, Paul Holmes. He spent over twenty years obsessively 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.800 searching for the Golden State Killer, who was also known 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.800 as the East Area Rapist, the Vassilia Ransacker, and the 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.480 Original night Stalker. One man thought to be responded for 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.119 over fifty rates and a dozen murders in northern California, 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.200 and he would always have a ski mask on. He 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.160 would go to these women as are laying asleep in 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.960 the bed, get them flipped over toward their face down, 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.720 and tie their hands behind their back. As he's doing this, 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.240 he's talking through clenched teeth and telling them you need 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.200 to do what I say or I'm gonna kill you. 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.880 He planned his attacks, he employed solid tactics. He often 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:31.959 would have approached the house from one direction and leave 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.399 the house in a different directions, so if there were 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.720 witnesses seeing him coming, they didn't see him going, or 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:41.839 vice versa. He would park his car many blocks away. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.200 During the canvas, of course, law enforcement is going out 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.280 and talking to neighbors and hey, did you see any 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.480 strange vehicles parked out front? Nobody ever really saw his 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.760 vehicle because it was so parked, so far away, so 0:01:54.160 --> 0:02:04.960 very tactically sound. A man in a mask robbed, tied, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:09.480 and stabbed them, leaving them for dad. Subjects stated, I 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.600 want to report a murder, no a double murder. I 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.080 did it. A man who wore an evil style executioner's hood, 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.440 carried a knife and gun and intended to use them. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.440 They have an arrestipe because they can't cove it, I'm 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.320 not damn Zodiac? Who is the Zodiac and where is he? 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.720 From My Heart Radio, How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:46.600 This is Monster the Zodiac Killer. How investigators solve cases 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.679 is constantly changing with improved technology. The most recent game 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.640 changer forensic genealogy. The technique uses a mix of genetics 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.200 and family trees. It's helps solve a growing list of 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.320 decades olds. The capture of the alleged Golden State Killer 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.840 has made forensic geneology famous, and it's this case has 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.280 breathed new life into the hunt for the Zodiac Killer. 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.760 For several years, Paul Holes had almost no success with 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.480 the Golden State Killer case. Every suspect and every tip 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.960 would eventually lead to a dead end. It wasn't until 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.320 Holes was working a completely separate case that ended up 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:36.360 connecting to another case that he encountered. Forensic genealogy holds 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.040 takes us back to the very beginning of that sequence 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.120 with the murder of unsuon June. She was killed by 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:48.160 her boyfriend Larry Vanner in February at two thousand seventeen, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.520 this is that five months after my last prime suspect 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.560 was eliminated I'm in the doldrums, but I have a 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.120 conference call in another case that I had been involved with. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:01.040 It was a two thousand and two homicide and Asian 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.520 female had been bludged to death, buried underneath her house 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.280 with kitty litter piled on top of her. We had 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.720 always referred to it as a kitty letter case. And 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.600 very quickly after this case, her living boyfriend, Larry Vanner, 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:19.599 had been arrested. Larry Vanner was interesting in that we 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.800 can never identify really who he was. Larry Vanner wasn't 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.960 his real name. He had ten different names and we 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.919 couldn't tell which one he had been given at birth. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.159 He had many different birthdays that he had given law 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.000 enforcement over the years, different social Security numbers. He was 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:40.680 a mystery man. Then investigators connected Larry Vanner to a 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.520 different case, the bear Brook murders, and it was on 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.640 this case that Paul Hols learned how forensic genealogy could work. 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:55.080 It was two fifty five gallon barrels, one found another 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.159 found in two thousand and one. Barrel was an adult 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.400 female and a little girl, and the other barrel was 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.280 two little girls. So that was a family that had 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.400 been killed. But the other child in that second barrel 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.080 wasn't related to this family. Well, through d n A, 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.920 they showed that that other child was a biological child 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.560 of Larry Vanner and then ultimately he's caught killing unsun 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.920 June in two thousand and two in Contracost County. Amazing case. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.240 But I'm going I got to figure out how this 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:35.480 technique has done. How can I use this to catch 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.920 the East Air rapist a k a. The Golden State Killer. 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.680 Forensic genealogy is a layered technique. At the base, it's 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:48.200 a map of an individual's DNA profile. Private genealogy companies 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.160 begin selling personal genetic profiles in the early eighties. At 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.560 the time, it was a niche market, but it's grown 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.600 in popularity in recent years. One of these companies, twenty 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.719 three and Me, now both surround five million customers worldwide. 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.520 So the team and I visited their headquarters to learn 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.520 more about their product. My name is Kate Black. I'm 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.600 the global Privacy Officer and Senior council at twenty three 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:16.120 and Me. Twenty three and Me is a consumer genetics 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.359 testing service, so anybody can order a test online, spit 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.279 in a tube. It's quite a large bit of spit. 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.760 It takes about thirty minutes to fill up the whole tube, 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.120 send that off in the mail to one of our laboratories, 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:33.000 and then within usually eight weeks, get a account rich 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.640 with reports and information about their DNA selves, everything from 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.960 ancestry like your ethnicity breakdown where your ancestors were from, 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.480 as well as some health and wellness related information like traits, 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.640 how you may respond or react to caffeine consumption, and 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.560 more of the serious health results like whether or not 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:59.600 you have the genes associated with late onset Alzheimer's. Our 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.560 mission is really to give people you know, full access 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.400 to understand their genetics and their genetic self, and that 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.600 absolutely requires an enormous amount of trust in us. As 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.840 a brand and a company, we take privacy very seriously. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.119 We want to make sure that we are not only 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.600 upholding our own kind of ethical standards and privacy requirements, 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.480 but also that we're meeting the expectations of our customers 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.120 and understanding that they're not just a customer or data point. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.320 They're really a person with a variety of different things 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.760 that may have brought them to us, and that we 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.960 can fulfill that journey for them in a way that 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:41.000 won't be surprising or unnerving or have unintended consequences. Around 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.400 the same time, twenty three and me got its start, 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:48.840 so did forensic genealogy. I think DNA is the most 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.840 conclusive evidence we hang out at the moment. This is 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.520 Colleen Fitzpatrick, owner and founder of Identifyingders International. It's a 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.080 company that uses DNA for a number of sir. This 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.440 is including finding missing persons in assisting law enforcement. If 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.520 anyone knows about DNA, it's her. Well. I'm the founder 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.600 of modern forensic genealogy. I wrote the book, and when 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.360 I wrote the book in two thousand five, it created 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.640 a revolution. It went forward into the forensic community itself 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:23.240 to mean the application of genealogical techniques and support of 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:27.000 the legal system. At first, I was having fun with 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.840 the hobby side, identifying old photographs, helping people look at 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.080 their records and squeezed juice out of them that they 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.360 didn't know it was there. But then because of my 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.560 science background, I was starting to be hired for some 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.800 real cases, some really interesting cases. I was contacted by 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.400 the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory to help them identify 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.599 a frozen human arm and hand in a glacier, Alaska, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.040 and that became the hand in the Snow case, which 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.400 I was very important in solving. And then from there, 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.280 you know, went into the Titanic Baby and Amelia. Ever 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.439 at those kind of cases became you know, really more 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.960 accessible and interesting with DNA developments. I worked about seventy 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:23.000 cases in thirty countries and I got almost all of them. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.880 Paul Hole has learned about forensic genealogy during the bare 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.680 Brooks case and he used the technique to catch the 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.600 alleged Golden State Killer. But how exactly does the process work? 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.000 We gave him a call. What we were working with 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.720 was a semen sample off of the victim's vaginal swab. 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.280 Right there. The DNA that we're interested in is contained 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.720 within the sperm heads of the semen and it's mixed 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.240 with the females d NA. So now you need to 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.880 have a law enforcement lab, those forensic analysts who are 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.320 very well versed at this process. You need them to 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.840 go in and separate out the Golden State Killers sperm 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.480 DNA from all the victims DNA that's on that vaginal swap. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.400 Once the Golden State Killers DNA was isolated, it was 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.080 sent to a private lab, and at the lab, a 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:21.440 SNIP profile was created. SNIP profile s n P for 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:27.559 single nucleotide polymorphism just basically a a testing process that 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.920 looks at hundreds of thousands of single points of DNA 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.880 across the genome in order to kind of map the 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:39.120 genome out in a partial way. Turnaround time can be 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.640 anywhere from two weeks to two months, depending on the lab. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.320 Hole says it's still faster than some forensic labs, which 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.000 can get caught in backlogs. The information is then uploaded 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.960 into jet match, a public online database that compiles info 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:59.120 from multiple DNA sites. Jet Match also shows relationships between 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.800 DNA profiles. That's because the original purpose of jed match 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.439 was for people to research genealogy and build family trees, 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.800 but since it's public, it also means law enforcement can 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:15.520 use any of this data in their investigations. Jed match 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.400 tells you it takes generally twenty four to eight hours 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.480 for their servers to an essence to the algorithms I 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.079 found with the Golden State killer that within twenty four 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:32.040 hours after upload, I had my initial search results. How 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.520 closely or distantly are related is dependent on how much 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:40.760 DNA you share. Our top results only shared less than 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.000 one percent of their DNA, which was on the order 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:49.360 of roughly a third cousin. From here, traditional genealogy work 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.040 kicks in, like hunting down birth certificates and death records 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:57.120 to trace family lineage. There's five of us on our 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.840 team on the law enforcement side, and then we had 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.679 the genetic genealogist Barbara ray Venter, who was the one 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.640 who was kind of guiding us. The five of us 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.280 were the ones that were really building the trees, and 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.199 Barbara was kind of, you know, checking in the tree 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.160 that we ultimately linked together where we found to the 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.680 Golden State killer, Joseph de'angelo um. You know, the common 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.280 ancestors had been born in the eighteen forties. Once we 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:30.120 started identifying all their descendants, that family tree very you know, 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:34.920 quickly grew to having well over a thousand individuals entered 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.000 into this tree. Most of them were long dead because 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.520 they're just ancestors. But you have to identify everybody. You 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.600 don't want to miss the one person who could potentially 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.880 be the parent of your offender. It took us four 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.000 and a half months, you know, from the time we 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.080 got the initial DNA search results to the time that 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.760 de Angelo was taken into custody. Holes is adamant that 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:03.240 this genealogy provides an investigative lead. He says, once a 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.000 suspect is identified, law enforcement still needs to secure a 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.040 direct DNA sample. Then that direct sample is compared to 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:15.199 the original sample used in the forensic genealogy process. This 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.760 is done in case an error was made while building 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:22.160 out the family tree with the Angelo. Even though we 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.160 kind of identified him, he has some circumstantial evidence that 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.480 seemed to corroborate that he could be the guy. It 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.920 was like he got to get that direct DNA sample, 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.079 So he was put under surveillance and then the first 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.280 DNA sample was collected and it was enough to basically 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.840 tell us he's the guy, but we needed to get 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.880 a second sample due to some of the complexities of 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:48.000 the first sample. The second sample left no doubt he 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:53.920 matched to the Golden State Killer's DNA. As I was 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.160 working through this case, I'm looking to see while is 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.160 there DNA had this newf angle DNA technology, and I 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.880 was able to find three cases out in Contracost the 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.360 county that still had evidence the DNA evidence that have 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.840 been collected from the women's bodies from back in the day, 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.120 and I was able to get DNA from each of 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.079 those three cases, and and the DNA profile from those 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:20.160 three cases was the same. I'm sitting at p F 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.720 Chang's and Kirk Campbell from Zack d A's office calls me. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.440 And Kirk opens up by saying, Paul, you absolutely cannot 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:34.080 tell anybody this. So immediately I knew, Okay, this is 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.480 going to be a different phone call. And then he said, 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.840 I don't know exactly what the lab has, but they're 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:43.120 really excited. And I was asking him more, what did 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:44.680 they tell you? What did they say? They said, well, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.480 they got a partial DNA profile, something about twenty markers, 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:54.440 like it's m Kirk, it's head. And so now we're 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.800 sitting in our rental cheap Cherokee and the p F 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.680 Chang's parking lot. It's it's an oh my god type 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.200 of mo moment. And then Steve Kramer, my partner from 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.160 the FBI, calls and he's on speaker in the jeeps, 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.640 so my wife is hearing Steve and I now strategizing 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.640 about what are the next steps and what are we 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:11.760 going to do? Now? Do I need to get on 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.560 the next flight out of here. For over forty years, 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:23.880 countless victims have waited for justice. Yesterday, in arrest warrant 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:30.960 was issued, a complaint was filed charging that individual with 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.720 two counts of murder. The answer was and always was 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:41.360 going to be in the d N A April, authorities 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.000 arrest and charge seventy two year old Joseph James D'Angelo 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:49.040 with eight counts of first degree murder. As of this recording, 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.160 he's on trial for the crimes attributed to the Golden 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.920 State Killer. Since d'angelo's arrest, almost two dozen other cases 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.080 have been solved with the help of forensic genealogy, and 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.160 that number is steadily climbing. However, this new technique is 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.640 already stirring debate. Most people, of course that are are 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:12.320 against it. It's a privacy concern Fourth Amendment unreasonable search 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:17.560 against their genetic information. People in the genealogy databases did 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:22.640 not explicitly consent to allow law enforcement to search their 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.240 genealogy DNA profiles in order to help solve a case. 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.880 Companies like twenty three and Me and Ancestry have policies 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:35.000 to keep law enforcement from directly accessing their private databases, 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.680 but for public databases like jet match, there aren't any 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.160 laws regulating searches. There's a lot of people out there that, 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.840 of course, are are very upset about law enforcement utilizing 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.360 this tool. But I think because of the kinds of 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.480 cases that are being solved with it, that there's a 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:59.000 balance in terms of people's perception society's acceptance of the 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.280 tool being used. Paul Holes says, what people are afraid 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.040 law enforcement has access to is very different compared to 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.800 what they actually have access to. I never had access 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.520 to anybody's DNA profile the database and ordered for me 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.480 to see their genetic information. For me to kind of 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.159 invade their genetic privacy, I have to have access to 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.320 their DNA profile and I never had that. All I 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.520 got were search results of people who shared a percentage 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.840 of DNA, and the results only tell me how much 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:36.800 DNA they shared. Still, some privacy advocates are worried that 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.240 this technique will cause more innocent people to be targeted 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.840 as possible suspects. At least that's the reasoning behind a 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:49.320 bill Maryland lawmakers introduced in January. If it passes, it 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:54.440 would completely block Maryland law enforcements ability to use forensic genealogy. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:59.160 More specifically, investigators would be banned from using DNA databases 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.280 to identify unknown DNA found at crime scenes, but Paul 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:08.240 Hols argues forensic genealogy is less invasive than typical police work. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.520 Through the use of genealogy in the Golden State Killer case, 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:18.440 we saved hundreds of men from having the government take 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:24.240 possession of their DNA. Considering traditional law enforcement investigations, we 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.760 were having women calling in saying, you know, my ex 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.040 husband looks like this hand drawn sketch of the Golden 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.840 State Killer from eight I think he might be the guy. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.160 And then we would go on to her ex husband's house, 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.560 knock on his door, and actually asked for his DNA. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:45.800 We took possession of his DNA sample. Through the use 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.119 of genealogy in the Golden State Killer case, we saved 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.840 hundreds of men from having the government take possession of 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.520 their DNA. As though it is, it's sort of that 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:03.040 balancing act of Okay, yeah, we're searching a genealogy database 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.600 where identifying people who are relatives based on their DNA, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:13.080 But the intrusion is is minuscule compared to how legally 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:18.159 law enforcement works. Every single day across the nation. Holes 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.320 also argues forensic genealogy isn't a tool to be used regularly. 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:28.520 Use it on your homicide cases, your your sexual assault, 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.040 your serial sexual assault cases, or if you have that 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:37.879 active public safety threat. You know, this guy has killed somebody, 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.320 you don't know who he is, he's left his DNA, 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.560 and he is out there potentially going to kill other people. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.560 And that it's that's the type of thing where you 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.600 bring in this tool sort of as the last resort. 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.199 It's sort of like, you know, you think of it 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.239 as as the nuclear weapon, and you go and you 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.000 try to figure out who this guy is using the 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.200 genealogy in order to get him in custody before can 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:04.200 rape and or kill somebody else. Holes does see where 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:10.240 concerns could rise if law enforcement expands its use into 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.800 everyday crimes. I think that's where you'll see sort of 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.280 the balance shift where people are going to start getting 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:22.200 uncomfortable with it, and that's where you know legislation will 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.679 come in and restrict law enforcements use. But Holes says, 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.400 at the end of the day, people who are decision 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:34.399 makers need to understand what the investigative genealogy technique is 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:38.200 and what it isn't before they pass laws based on perception. 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.159 In the spring of confirmed Zodiac letters were sent to 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.480 a lab for DNA testing. The hope is to pull 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.119 enough DNA for a full genetic profile and then use 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.440 that profile for forensic genealogy. This isn't the first time 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.200 law enforcement has turned to DNA for answers. In the 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:15.479 Zodiac case, the prime suspect, Arthur Lee Allen, died in 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:20.920 August of authorities seized that opportunity to preserve some brain 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:26.000 tissue for further testing. This is Zodiac expert Michael Butterfield. 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.640 Several years later, in the late nineteen nineties, the San 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:35.160 Francisco Police Department submitted suspected Zodiac communications to the crime 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:41.280 lab for DNA analysis. According to retired Inspector Vince Rippetto, 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.919 DNA was found on a Zodiac communication and that DNA 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.000 did not match Arthur Lee Allen. Several years later, in 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:54.120 two thousand two, San Francisco Police inspectors Mike Maloney and 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:58.160 Kelly Carroll submitted suspected Zodiac communications to the crime lab 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.880 for further DNA testing. Dr Cindy Holt of the San 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:06.320 Francisco Police DNA lab examined the Zodiac letters and envelopes, 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.760 and she stated that a partial genetic profile was found 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:13.120 on an envelope sent with the Zodiac communication in November 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.040 of nineteen sixty nine. According to Holt, that sample was 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:24.040 sufficient to exclude suspects, but not sufficient to positively identify anyone. However, 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.560 some critics didn't believe law enforcement had found a partial 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.879 DNA profile. They believed it was all for show. I 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:35.000 was shown the DNA profile that they obtained when I 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.520 went out to San Francisco p D at one time, 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:41.000 so I saw what they actually got. So they did 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.680 get a low level DNA profile, but hold says there 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.000 were other concerns as well. There's no confidence that you 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.560 could say was actually the offender's DNA. If the Zodiac, 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:56.000 for example, licked the stamps, licked these envelope flaps of 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.760 the letters that he sent in, why can't they get 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.680 his DNA. But you also have to be concerned about, well, 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.679 whose DNA is actually on those items they're sent in 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.840 after the fact, they're not present at the crime scene 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:13.359 where you know the offender wasn't at I had, you know, 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.159 an old time BLO detective. He had some involvement in 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:17.920 Zodiac back in the day, and he goes, you know, 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.240 I remember growing up, you know, as a kid going 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.520 into the post office to mail letter back in the 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.800 late sixties, and you hand the guy an open envelope, 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:27.840 but he would lick the envelope and he would lick 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:30.760 the stamp. Well, who's to say that didn't happen with 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:34.320 these particular envelopes and stamps that were sent in, right, 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:36.679 So how can we say for sure that if they 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:40.800 do get DNA from the secondary or peripheral items of evidence, 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:45.880 that it's actually Zodiac DNA. I would have greater confidence 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:49.120 if they get the same DNA profile from multiple items 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.720 like that, then it looks like it's probably the originator 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:56.400 of that evidence versus a secondary person that handled that evidence. 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.119 I sure would like to see primary evidence in the 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:06.040 Zodiac case produced a DNA profile. Well, with DNA, you 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:10.359 never know, you just never know, and you never know 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:14.120 the power of your what you're testing is. But if 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:17.000 it's kind of a degraded, a low level sample, you know, 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:21.239 you can be surprised. This is Colleen Fitzpatrick again. One 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:23.600 of the cases she worked on was the so called 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.400 Unknown Child of the Titanic. We had to do multiple 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.560 rounds of testing on that. We really didn't have a 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:32.920 lot of DNA to start with, and at the end 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:36.400 somebody told me or my understanding was there was enough 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.000 DNA for one cell of that child's body left and 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.719 that's what did the trick. So that was using ninety 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:47.040 year old, nine year old DNA that had been in 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:51.399 the ground in Halifax, Nova Scotia and had been exposed 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:53.959 to acid rain for as long as that's been around, 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:57.320 and yet there was enough DNA in that baby, a 0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:02.080 baby's body to make the identify action. Here's another example 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:06.239 of degraded and contaminated DNA that was still usable. We 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:09.600 had Buckskin Girl under the DNA dough project. That was 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.320 from a blood sample that was thirty seven years old. 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.800 It had been doped with hepperine to keep it from coagulating, 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.600 and it had not been refrigerated for thirty seven years, 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.840 and it worked like a charm. So you know, when 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:27.280 you don't think it's gonna work, it does. So you 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:29.840 never can tell with DNA, and with the zodiac and 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:34.280 the stamps, you never can tell is worth trying. We 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:37.320 wanted to know more about these stamps does a small 0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:41.240 amount of saliva typically provide a good DNA sample? This 0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:44.960 really interesting question. I don't think there's enough data in 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.200 recent months to say one way or the other. I'd 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.600 say definitely maybe, because again you never know. You know, 0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:55.080 I know I had talked to a lab extensively at 0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:58.000 one time about somebody, I'll grab a coffee cop can 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:00.960 you get the DNA off that? But basically they said 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:04.399