Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck,
Speaker 1: there's Bill Gates. No time to explain, this is short stuff.
Speaker 1: Let's get to it. Uh, thanks for coming back and
Speaker 1: joining us, Bill to talk about COVID and vaccines and therapeutics,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we've got a short window here,
Speaker 1: so let's dive right in. And I guess my first
Speaker 1: question is, let's just kind a level said and find
Speaker 1: out where we are with vaccines and how it all
Speaker 1: works with multiple vaccines being worked on, and how that
Speaker 1: kind of goes in the end. Well, there's fortunately a
Speaker 1: lot of different vaccine constructs using uh, most of the
Speaker 1: approaches that we know. And as we get these out
Speaker 1: in larger human studies and eventually have a Human Emergency
Speaker 1: Youth Thought authorization, we'll start to understand for the various
Speaker 1: candidates how much they prevent disease transmission, how much they
Speaker 1: prevent often you get sick, whether they work in the elderly,
Speaker 1: and what type of duration they have, And so they'll
Speaker 1: be quite a range on those parameters for these vaccines.
Speaker 1: You know, eventually we want one that's both very good
Speaker 1: at transmission blocking and preventing sickness. And hast duration and
Speaker 1: is cheap so that we get out to a large
Speaker 1: part of the entire global population and bring the pandemic
Speaker 1: to an end. One of the things that you you
Speaker 1: um brought up though, is that we want like all
Speaker 1: of these different factors that make basically like a perfect vaccine. Um.
Speaker 1: But I read one of your posts on your Gates
Speaker 1: Notes blogs and you said that that's probably not going
Speaker 1: to happen right out of the gate. Is there a
Speaker 1: benefit from having multiple vaccines kind of working in conjunction
Speaker 1: or is it the best route to just kind of
Speaker 1: keep going after that that magic perfect vaccine that that
Speaker 1: works as close to perfect as we can get. Well,
Speaker 1: particularly for the developing countries, we won't be able to
Speaker 1: afford to go out a whole lot of times. And
Speaker 1: so uh, you know, the US has funded a lot
Speaker 1: of the R and D. Our Foundation and a group
Speaker 1: were part of called SEPPI is also funded R and D,
Speaker 1: but well less than what the US itself has done,
Speaker 1: and that's got a really good pipeline. You know, the
Speaker 1: astro Seneca probably will come out first, then Johnson and Johnson,
Speaker 1: then Novavax, then Sonofie. Those are the ford that are
Speaker 1: most promising because they're they're clearly low cost Maderna and
Speaker 1: Visor in that same time frame, but probably pretty expensive
Speaker 1: and may only end up being used in rich countries.
Speaker 1: So that's that's the It's a question of affordability, not
Speaker 1: necessarily efficacy. Yeah, well, of the six, the likelihood that
Speaker 1: they all work without side effects is pretty low. Now
Speaker 1: the Phase one studies, that's pretty small numbers, and you're
Speaker 1: not going out to find sick people, but there you
Speaker 1: can see what the antibody response looks like. And if
Speaker 1: you use some very advanced tools, you can look at
Speaker 1: the other side of the immune system, the T cell side,
Speaker 1: and try and gauge what type of responses you're getting there.
Speaker 1: And I have to say that all these vaccines look
Speaker 1: pretty good. You know, the Nova vacts which just came
Speaker 1: out this week, has the best numbers. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we're this kind of respiratory disease. Protecting your lungs is
Speaker 1: easier than many other vaccination tasks like malaria or hivar
Speaker 1: or TV. So, I mean, I hate to keep harping
Speaker 1: on the multiple vaccine thing, but are we looking at
Speaker 1: a situation in six eight months to a year where
Speaker 1: families are going to have to research which one works
Speaker 1: best or is it sort of a regional availability or
Speaker 1: monetary availability, how will that work? Well, certainly in the
Speaker 1: United States, the government will have a clear opinion about
Speaker 1: the first one that's rolling out, and you know, if
Speaker 1: that first vaccine adds enough transmission blocking, then you what
Speaker 1: you have is you have whatever previous protection we get
Speaker 1: from other coronavirus family viruses and the immunity we get
Speaker 1: from the natural infection for this coronavirus, plus whoever we vaccinate,
Speaker 1: and so between those three you can get up to
Speaker 1: her immunity where the total number of cases is very small,
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, probably adding to the US population to the
Speaker 1: vaccinated would do that. And so that's you know, seventy
Speaker 1: million people to be vaccinated, and almost all these vaccines
Speaker 1: unfortunately going to require two doses, so that's a hundred
Speaker 1: and forty million doses. The various UH efforts are building
Speaker 1: their factories in parallel, at least with the scale for
Speaker 1: the United States. We're trying to make sure factories get
Speaker 1: built for the entire world, which is you know, the
Speaker 1: US is only five percent of the world's population, so
Speaker 1: that's a twenty times harder problem, and the rest of
Speaker 1: the world is not as rich. Getting enough money is
Speaker 1: very difficult. The US is one of the countries where
Speaker 1: you could decide to go with the first generation vaccine
Speaker 1: and then decide that its efficacy was limited enough that
Speaker 1: you would four months later, uh say no, now you
Speaker 1: also need to go and get this vaccine after all.
Speaker 1: You know, the economic damage we're trying to put an
Speaker 1: end to is trillions and trillions, and you know, making
Speaker 1: these vaccines and deploying them, assuming there's no side effects, Uh,
Speaker 1: that's just billions, So you know, it's it's highly leveraged,
Speaker 1: uh investment. You you, I mean you kind of mentioned that.
Speaker 1: You know, we also need to be focusing on other
Speaker 1: parts of the world too, low and middle income countries. Um,
Speaker 1: who can't necessarily afford to throw billions of dollars at
Speaker 1: this problem. Um, How how do we help other countries
Speaker 1: and other human beings that just don't happen to live
Speaker 1: in the United States or Canada or the UK or Australia.
Speaker 1: How do we help them? Is it just a matter
Speaker 1: of direct aid? Is it a matter of sharing research?
Speaker 1: Is a matter of just pumping out a bunch of
Speaker 1: doses and shipping them over there. Or is it a
Speaker 1: thing where if we in the United States pay a
Speaker 1: bunch of money for a vaccine, that's going to make
Speaker 1: it that much more likely for the farmer companies to
Speaker 1: sell it for lower no cost to other countries. What's
Speaker 1: the economic to that. Yeah, Typically the vaccine companies for
Speaker 1: the poorest countries, developing countries that a group called gobby
Speaker 1: that we support and the US government other government support
Speaker 1: it does the bind uh for these poor countries. The
Speaker 1: vaccine manufacturers agree that they're not getting any profit, nor
Speaker 1: are they getting any recovery for their fixed costs. Their
Speaker 1: R and D and trial type costs are just getting
Speaker 1: uh close to that marginal cost. And that makes sense
Speaker 1: because they're they're not giving up something they would get otherwise.
Speaker 1: And so all these manufacturers will have tiered pricing. The
Speaker 1: price to the rich countries, middle income countries, and the
Speaker 1: poorest countries will be different. Uh. Some of the companies
Speaker 1: have agreed to make no profits, so when they price
Speaker 1: to the rich in the middle income, they'll just recover
Speaker 1: their fixed costs. Uh. And the poor countries. It's just
Speaker 1: that that marginal cost. A number of these constructs look
Speaker 1: like they'll be around two dollars per dose. Uh, perhaps
Speaker 1: even less. Uh. Yeah, many of these constructs are very productive,
Speaker 1: including the aDNA virus which is astro Centeca and J
Speaker 1: and J and the subunit protein which is UH includes
Speaker 1: Novavax and the Sonofi approaches. There are a name platform
Speaker 1: which you can think, I'm kind of leaving that out,
Speaker 1: you know, in the long rum, we're very enthusiastic about
Speaker 1: that because the speed of development and having generic factories
Speaker 1: even when you don't know which pathogen you're going after,
Speaker 1: will work very well for that. So we've been funding
Speaker 1: that for about a decade. Unfortunately, it's in terms of
Speaker 1: scaling up the manufacturing and a port portion of it
Speaker 1: called the lipid, the costs are still higher than these
Speaker 1: other approaches. So for the big world, I doubt those
Speaker 1: vaccines uh, which includes Maderna and Visor Bio and tech,
Speaker 1: I doubt they'll they'll play much of a role. And
Speaker 1: what you're talking about just now, you you're talking about
Speaker 1: different types of vaccines that are being tested. So there's
Speaker 1: an RNA vaccine that Maderna is working on that UM
Speaker 1: has never a vaccine has never been produced using RNA, right,
Speaker 1: that's right. This would be the first one. Can you
Speaker 1: can you just talk a little bit about how an
Speaker 1: RNA vaccine differs from you know, saying a dina virus
Speaker 1: vaccine or even a flu vaccine. Well, RNA is the
Speaker 1: name of these molecules that are like the software code
Speaker 1: that tell yourselves what proteins to manufacture, and you know,
Speaker 1: so the software idea here is that instead of actually
Speaker 1: sending the particles for the immune system to recognize and
Speaker 1: get ready to attack, you actually send some lines of
Speaker 1: instructions the RNA that tell your own cells to make
Speaker 1: that protein, and then once they make it, then the
Speaker 1: immune system sees that and so the amount of URNA
Speaker 1: you need to send could be way smaller because the
Speaker 1: instructions are smaller than the actual proteins themselves. Now, we
Speaker 1: still have to package up the RNA to get it
Speaker 1: inside the cells, and that creates some cost. That's the
Speaker 1: so called lipid But the basic idea UH is really
Speaker 1: brilliant and in the future of vaccines, UH this will
Speaker 1: be a critical way to bank vaccines because the speed
Speaker 1: and the cost will get figured out and you'll just
Speaker 1: have these general factories. Whether it's UH for malaria, or
Speaker 1: cancer vaccines, and so it's great Maderna and Byron Tech careback.
Speaker 1: These are companies that were founded based on using that
Speaker 1: particular approach. Well, let's take a quick break, everybody, and
Speaker 1: we will be right back with Bill Gates. How closely?
Speaker 1: And I think the answer I want to hear is
Speaker 1: that we've never seen a response like this as far
Speaker 1: as sharing of research. But how closely is the international
Speaker 1: research community working together? And have we seen anything like this? No,
Speaker 1: it's quite novel. Um. And what we're gonna have is
Speaker 1: the company who invents a vaccine is going to allow
Speaker 1: other companies to use their factories to do the manufacturer.
Speaker 1: So we scale up very quickly to this billions of doses.
Speaker 1: And that's never been done before. And so we're our
Speaker 1: foundation because we have a lot of that expertise, people
Speaker 1: who have spent their careers at these private sector companies.
Speaker 1: We're able to broker through our relationships with the companies
Speaker 1: and the governments how that works. So, for example, two
Speaker 1: of the companies in India have big capacity, but they're
Speaker 1: unlikely to invent one of these vaccines. But Serum and
Speaker 1: bioe are these two companies, and so we're giving money
Speaker 1: to them and making sure the licensing and cooperation is
Speaker 1: such that they can latch onto whichever of the other
Speaker 1: companies work looks promising and be there to to make
Speaker 1: a lot of the volume. So yes, I'm very pleased
Speaker 1: with the cooperation. We didn't practice for this the way
Speaker 1: we should have, either the governments or the private sector.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, my days are mostly those conversations
Speaker 1: which everybody has a good attitude. Uh. You know, very
Speaker 1: few people are being greedy about this, most being willing
Speaker 1: to do things in a very novel high speed way. Now,
Speaker 1: just follow up on that. It seems to me as
Speaker 1: an optimist, that that could present a new way forward
Speaker 1: for humanity, for things to work together on things that
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily uh COVID nineteen related. Is that is that
Speaker 1: naive and foolish or or could this be a good
Speaker 1: opportunity for something like that? Well, it's a little bit naive,
Speaker 1: and that the economic comparative of a coronavirus vaccine is
Speaker 1: a stronger market signal than you've ever seen for any disease.
Speaker 1: It's costing economies trillions of dollars. It's you know, the
Speaker 1: US alone has put out already three trillion and relief money,
Speaker 1: and they're talking about additional trillions, and so the net
Speaker 1: gain from being bringing this epidemic to an end in
Speaker 1: economic terms is very clear. Whereas a lot of the
Speaker 1: diseases we need vaccines for are just in poor countries,
Speaker 1: are mostly in poor countries where the rich countries, Like
Speaker 1: tuberculosis or malaria is basically not seen in any rich country,
Speaker 1: so they're the economic comparative isn't great. And that's where
Speaker 1: our foundation, uh you know, for HIV, we and the
Speaker 1: U S governments are the big funders. For milaria, we're
Speaker 1: the big funder. There is no market signal and you know,
Speaker 1: in a way, it's terrible that this disease hit the
Speaker 1: rich world, but whatever, somebody in the rich world gets sick. Wow,
Speaker 1: then uh, you know, resources are put into play in
Speaker 1: a way that is you know, just incredible. So, um,
Speaker 1: I should I feel like I should probably preface this,
Speaker 1: But there are some people you may not be aware
Speaker 1: of this. There are some people who are wary of vaccines,
Speaker 1: and um, there there's a possibility that some people might
Speaker 1: feel wariness toward covid um vaccine in particular because everything
Speaker 1: is is being stepped up as quickly as possible. UM.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I've run into is
Speaker 1: this idea that um, it might not even work. That
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you go in for a flu vaccine
Speaker 1: and you still get the flu that year. Um. Can
Speaker 1: you kind of talk about how how that differs and
Speaker 1: how it would be more effective than say, like your
Speaker 1: average flu vaccine, how the two are different. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: two problems with the flu vaccine. One is that there
Speaker 1: are multiple varieties of flu that circulate, and as you
Speaker 1: get into flu season, we try by going to China,
Speaker 1: where most flues originate, to sample what's there and make
Speaker 1: a two or three components seasonal flu vaccine, but we
Speaker 1: often miss the strain that UH is most prevalent during
Speaker 1: a season, and the way those flu vaccines are made,
Speaker 1: they're not very effective and elderly people. And that's really
Speaker 1: bad because the flu mostly kills old people very similar
Speaker 1: in the age profile two COVID. And so here we
Speaker 1: are in the trials for this vaccine making sure it
Speaker 1: works well and old people, because otherwise the sickness protection
Speaker 1: thing is almost useless. But flu is very difficult. It's
Speaker 1: constantly emerging in new forms and reassorting this disease. There's
Speaker 1: one target. The genetic variation is very, very minor, So
Speaker 1: the vaccine will be able to target every coronavirus that
Speaker 1: we've seen, and once we get rid of it, it
Speaker 1: won't be crossing over into humans on a regular basis. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, we could go a long long time before
Speaker 1: we would ever see it again, and then we'll have
Speaker 1: surveillance and catch it when it's small numbers. Now, you know,
Speaker 1: it's important to talk about vaccines. I think that's the
Speaker 1: sort of um carrot dangling in front of the world.
Speaker 1: But what about therapeutics. I know that's something that we
Speaker 1: don't hear enough of probably in the news. Where where
Speaker 1: are we with therapeutics and where can we go with therapeutics? Well,
Speaker 1: the doctors are way better at treating COVID patients now
Speaker 1: than at the start. They're not as overloaded. They realize
Speaker 1: that you don't use the ventilator nearly as much because
Speaker 1: it has bad side effects. They use oxygen earlier, they
Speaker 1: use the chrome position. The two drugs that are being
Speaker 1: used ramdasevere, which is an anti viral, and Dexi methos on,
Speaker 1: which was proven out in a trial we funded in
Speaker 1: the UK is a immune modulator. There are two other
Speaker 1: anti virals that are actually as promising as ramdasevere and
Speaker 1: actually could be used orally, which is much easier. There's
Speaker 1: monoclonal antibodies where uh dozens of companies are working on that,
Speaker 1: but Regeneran, Eli, Lilly and Astro Seneca have the three
Speaker 1: that are leading the way there. And you know, by
Speaker 1: the time we get more anti virals, monclone antibodies and
Speaker 1: some improved immune modulators, we could cut the death rate
Speaker 1: by eight to nine. And testing therapeutics is easier because
Speaker 1: you just take a few hundred sick people and if
Speaker 1: you're going to have substantial results, you you know, a
Speaker 1: hundred at the intervention a hundred don't uh, you'll see,
Speaker 1: you know, significant variance between those and so yes, the
Speaker 1: death rate will come down quite a bit, well before
Speaker 1: we get the vaccine out in the large numbers to
Speaker 1: stop dropping the case numbers. Great um, Bill, you kind
Speaker 1: of referenced a point in time that is on everyone's mind,
Speaker 1: but I think it seems kind of amorphous, which is
Speaker 1: the point where we have viable vaccine and good treatments.
Speaker 1: What does the world with coronavirus look like after that,
Speaker 1: does it just like disappeared, does it hit a reservoir,
Speaker 1: does it come back seasonally? What? What is what is
Speaker 1: it going to look like? And then how far off
Speaker 1: are we from that goal of reaching that that world.
Speaker 1: If we get this cheap vaccine um and it's not
Speaker 1: only safe, but everybody uh knows that it's safe, so
Speaker 1: they're willing in large numbers to take the vaccine. And
Speaker 1: if we get the generosity that the rich countries are
Speaker 1: along with our foundation are funding the vaccine so it's
Speaker 1: uh available even in the developing countries, we can truly
Speaker 1: bring this into an end where it won't be coming back. Uh,
Speaker 1: You'll get rid of all the pockets the disease or
Speaker 1: in you'll be willing to go to big public events
Speaker 1: and then will monitor to see if it if something
Speaker 1: similar is crossing over and catch that very quickly. We
Speaker 1: might not hang around with bats quite as much uh
Speaker 1: as we do now. Uh these live markets where uh
Speaker 1: this crossover almost certainly took place. But you know, I'm
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time getting the US to provide
Speaker 1: money to help buy the vaccine for other countries. Historically,
Speaker 1: the US has been super generous. You know, we we
Speaker 1: drove smallpox eradication, we fund the polio effort that's near
Speaker 1: to completion on HIV and malaria. We've been super generous here.
Speaker 1: The leadership has been distracted and not wanting to talk
Speaker 1: about the epidemics, so we haven't gotten the money yet.
Speaker 1: But I'm optimistic that'll get solved by the Congress because
Speaker 1: it's hitting both people. It's hitting both the bleeding hearts
Speaker 1: you care about human lives, and it's hitting both the
Speaker 1: hard cases you care about the bottom line. Huh, it's
Speaker 1: the humanitarian argument, the strategic argument of not creating a
Speaker 1: vacuum for China and others, and the selfish argument of hey,
Speaker 1: we don't want it coming back again and again. You know,
Speaker 1: countries like Australia, South Korea that did a competent job,
Speaker 1: even they have found it hard that everybody was coming
Speaker 1: into the country potentially can start up a chain of
Speaker 1: infection again. So uh, you know, they're doing great, but
Speaker 1: they have to keep fighting and fighting and and doing
Speaker 1: local shutdowns. Whereas if if they the rest of the
Speaker 1: world had done what they've done, you know, they they
Speaker 1: could go and and have their economy in a normal state. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned the live markets and the crossover
Speaker 1: and sort of the problems with that. What um, what
Speaker 1: does that future look like? And what can we do
Speaker 1: about it? As Americans? Are we working with China? Are
Speaker 1: they willing to close these things down? Like? How is
Speaker 1: all that going to work? Yeah? A lot of species
Speaker 1: of bats are there south of Wuhan uh, and you know,
Speaker 1: the cross protection from related cornervirces may explain why vietnamal
Speaker 1: that they've certainly done a good job. You know, they
Speaker 1: just had their first death, and so coronaviruses do come out,
Speaker 1: and if you're looking with modern tools, you'll see it
Speaker 1: when the numbers are very small. So those uh, you know,
Speaker 1: making sure the exposures to bats are reduced, it reduced,
Speaker 1: and that the surveillance is very strong. And then once
Speaker 1: you see meaningful spread, then kicking up a sort of
Speaker 1: what I call mega testing diagnostic capability that is all
Speaker 1: very doable and and so we won't suffer from a
Speaker 1: coronavirus being widespread like this again, we will really have
Speaker 1: our act together for pretty modest level of resources. Chuck,
Speaker 1: I have one last question. Do you have any anymore?
Speaker 1: I got one more, but you go first. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: well my bill was um, and I'm presuming here. I
Speaker 1: hope I'm not overly presuming that it's okay for me
Speaker 1: to call you Bill. Sure at this point, Okay, I
Speaker 1: probably should have verified that before. But UM, what I
Speaker 1: think people are there's like an inherent suspicion or suspiciousness
Speaker 1: that I think people can can kind of lean towards
Speaker 1: when they encounter a mind bogglingly wealthy person who um,
Speaker 1: wants to help eradicate disease around the world and uses
Speaker 1: their money for that end. Um, So what is it
Speaker 1: that that interested you that kind of took you from
Speaker 1: you know, uh, pioneering computers to pioneering eradicating disease around
Speaker 1: the world. What was that was that Melinda's influence? Was
Speaker 1: that something that you've always been interested in? What? What?
Speaker 1: What's the deal? Well, like your listeners, I I'm curious
Speaker 1: to understand things. And so as I was uh starting
Speaker 1: to wind down, uh and spend a little bit less
Speaker 1: time on my Microsoft work, I was reading. I was thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: how can I give this wealth back to society? Uh?
Speaker 1: And I was learning about what kills children and I
Speaker 1: was stunned that there were diseases that we had solutions for,
Speaker 1: we had vaccines for, but uh, millions would die of
Speaker 1: those diseases because they weren't affordable to the poor countries,
Speaker 1: even though the cost of manufacturer was very, very low.
Speaker 1: And so I saw that Melinda and I could focus
Speaker 1: on global health and get the death rate down, which
Speaker 1: amazingly encounterintuitively reduces population growth because parents, when they know
Speaker 1: their kids are likely to survive, have less children. And
Speaker 1: so that quest, you know, which involved creating this gobby
Speaker 1: organization to help buy the vaccines. Overall, the under five
Speaker 1: death rate has gone from ten percent now down to
Speaker 1: about five globally, and you know, so that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's mind blowing. It was over ten million children here
Speaker 1: now less than then five million a year, and we
Speaker 1: have a clear path with a few new vaccines to
Speaker 1: get down to two and a half million two and
Speaker 1: a half percent. Uh, and even rich countries are close
Speaker 1: to one percent. So you're getting pretty close to the
Speaker 1: kind of equity that any child point anywhere, their life
Speaker 1: is treated as having value. Now on this journey, you
Speaker 1: you know, I've gotten to learn about the immune system
Speaker 1: and meet great scientists, and so I love the work. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it gives purpose to how we take the
Speaker 1: Microsoft money and get it back out to the world
Speaker 1: because we don't need it for our consumption. And you know,
Speaker 1: so this work in partnership with me Linda has been
Speaker 1: a great joy to me. Uh So, I guess in
Speaker 1: finishing up, I mean, you know, you've been pretty busy
Speaker 1: being Bill Gates Superhero during this time. I'm curious though
Speaker 1: about you know, you've been locked down like the rest
Speaker 1: of us. What's what is Bill Gates human being been doing?
Speaker 1: Have you had any fun? What have you guys been doing?
Speaker 1: What have you been up to? Well, you know, in
Speaker 1: a way, Uh, I don't know what the kids think,
Speaker 1: but we've got more time with our kids than we
Speaker 1: would have expected, including one that's at medical school, one
Speaker 1: that's uh at University of Chicago and college and so
Speaker 1: you know, lots of family game nights. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm using the team software from Microsoft and Zoom and
Speaker 1: some of the others, and so I'm giving a lot
Speaker 1: of feedback to the Microsoft team that now this this
Speaker 1: has becomes so mainstream, let's make it easy to take
Speaker 1: notes and review the slides and search through A previous
Speaker 1: meeting to see what was done. You know, so the
Speaker 1: rated innovation the software will be up to quite a bit. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, it's been simple for me to meet with
Speaker 1: leaders because they don't expect to show that you're serious
Speaker 1: that you have to fly all the way there. And
Speaker 1: even for these African leaders there they're the most stuck.
Speaker 1: They have to fly to the US and fly to Europe,
Speaker 1: so they're they're able to stay in their countries and
Speaker 1: get more of their work done. Uh. So you know
Speaker 1: how once it's all over, we realized, Wow, some of
Speaker 1: those trips our time in the office wasn't necessary. That
Speaker 1: is pretty fascinating that it's really accelerated rethinking office work
Speaker 1: and business travel. Uh. And you know we really can
Speaker 1: uh save a lot of the overhead from those things.
Speaker 1: But you know, I've gotten to read more than normal, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, less jet legg than normal. Uh. Any particular
Speaker 1: books that you've been that you've you've enjoyed most Uh
Speaker 1: you know, I was just reading Zeke Emmanuel has one
Speaker 1: about which is the best health system in the world
Speaker 1: that does a good job of talking about the strengths
Speaker 1: and weaknesses. You know, where the US has a lot
Speaker 1: of weakness is but has you know big chance to
Speaker 1: to get better? Um, well, we're working on a stuff
Speaker 1: you should know board game, Bill, so we'll make sure
Speaker 1: the Gates family gets one. Fantastic I'd love that, maybe
Speaker 1: even signed. All right, Chuck, you got anything else? I
Speaker 1: got nothing else. Thanks a lot, sir, it's great talking
Speaker 1: to you again. Yeah, thank you, Bill. But wait, Bill,
Speaker 1: do you have anything else? No? Uh uh, you know.
Speaker 1: Thanks for feeding people's curiosity. You guys do a great job. Hey, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for saving the world from doing a great
Speaker 1: job too. Well. Since we just made Bill Gates lap,
Speaker 1: that's it for short stuff. Everybody's short stuff is out.
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