Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: All right, John Middlecoff is about to stop by to
Speaker 2: talk NFL Draft for about an hour. We're going to
Speaker 2: do about ten minutes NBA in the backside, because we
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Speaker 2: John Middlecoff, former NFL scout. Three and Out is his
Speaker 2: podcast every Sunday night. We chop it up probably forty
Speaker 2: five of the fifty two weeks. Here we chop it.
Speaker 3: Up for an hour. You know, he deserves some time
Speaker 3: off once in a while.
Speaker 2: So the NFL Draft over the course of the weekend.
Speaker 2: So my one take about the draft, well I got several,
Speaker 2: but my first one is Dallas didn't draft a running
Speaker 2: back and didn't draft a receiver until the round. So
Speaker 2: you know, Jerry hasn't been to a Super Bowl in
Speaker 2: on almost three decades. So what Jerry doesn't want to
Speaker 2: do is get trapped with Dak Prescott. And I thought
Speaker 2: it was strategic. I thought that was Jerry Jones saying, listen,
Speaker 2: we're gonna rely on you Dak this year. We're not
Speaker 2: giving you all this, AMMO. We're going to rebuild the
Speaker 2: offensive line. You'll get protection, but in a contract year,
Speaker 2: the last thing I'm gonna do is load you up
Speaker 2: with weapons. Dak's production's absolutely gonna come down. I mean,
Speaker 2: they just don't have a running back of note on
Speaker 2: the roster, and people could say, well, you're tanking the year.
Speaker 2: They're not tanking the year. They'll be a good football team.
Speaker 2: But it felt strategic to me to not address running
Speaker 2: back and really frankly not address receiver until in the
Speaker 2: sixth round. That didn't feel like just a bad stroke
Speaker 2: of luck to me.
Speaker 1: I'm torn because it's hard for me to be critical
Speaker 1: when you ever you go offensive and defensive line early
Speaker 1: in the which they have, and they're a good drafting team,
Speaker 1: bad running back draft. But let's face it, Colin, until
Speaker 1: they give him a contract extension, which they should not.
Speaker 1: To me, this is him and McCarthy are playing for
Speaker 1: their jobs. I mean, this guy, let's face it. They
Speaker 1: paid him a lot of money a couple of years
Speaker 1: ago off the broken ankle, and he's been really good
Speaker 1: in the regular season. In the playoffs, two out of
Speaker 1: three years he was atrocious I mean, he was really
Speaker 1: bad three years ago against the Niners in this year,
Speaker 1: in that first half in the game was over. Wasn't
Speaker 1: all his fault, but he did not play winning football.
Speaker 1: The price has gone up dramatically since they gave him
Speaker 1: forty million dollars a year just because the market right.
Speaker 1: So can you give Dak Prescott fifty five million dollars
Speaker 1: a year?
Speaker 3: And you can't?
Speaker 1: I underno, And he's better than Tua. But I say
Speaker 1: the same thing about Tua. If you're in that business
Speaker 1: long term, you're signing up at best to be a
Speaker 1: one and done playoff team. And the other thing is,
Speaker 1: let's face it, the Eagles have a lot more talent
Speaker 1: on their roster, dramatically, more top to bottom. So you
Speaker 1: look at a team.
Speaker 2: I mean AJ Brown, DeVante Smith, Saquon Barkley better at
Speaker 2: tight end and an athlete in their prime at quarterback.
Speaker 2: I mean I don't at Lane Johnson at right tackle.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessarily close. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: you're being kind saying they have more talent. I think
Speaker 2: it's lobsided in favor of Philly Well.
Speaker 1: And if Michael Parson is the best defensive player of
Speaker 1: the group. It's not like the Eagles haven't invested in
Speaker 1: that side the last couple of years in the draft
Speaker 1: with Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis. They just draft. They get
Speaker 1: the top corner in this draft with Cooper Degen as
Speaker 1: their second round pick, who a lot of people had
Speaker 1: and Howie even said we had a first round great
Speaker 1: on him as well. Darius Slay is an older player,
Speaker 1: but he's still a solid starter. They'll get rid of
Speaker 1: Brad Berry the Eagles, and now you add Fangio and
Speaker 1: Kellen Moore to the mix because last year their coaches
Speaker 1: really let him down. Like to me, this is anything
Speaker 1: less like one takeaway after the draft for the NFC East,
Speaker 1: I don't think the Giants are very good. Washington's in
Speaker 1: this rebuild mode. The Eagles have no excuse not to
Speaker 1: win this division. Fil I mean last year they imploded.
Speaker 1: Dallas kind of lucked into it at the end, remember,
Speaker 1: but they should not like that. There should be a
Speaker 1: two or three game difference now. I think Dallas is
Speaker 1: gonna be good. I'm talking, you know, nine ten wins,
Speaker 1: but the Eagle there should be a gap between the
Speaker 1: two teams.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any question and listen, there's a
Speaker 2: line with Dak Prescott. If he does not get one
Speaker 2: hundred yards run support, dex wins about thirty five percent
Speaker 2: of his games. So it did feel like to me
Speaker 2: they got the cap issues, so you had to address
Speaker 2: running back in the draft. You're not gonna fine running back, well.
Speaker 1: They don't really exist. You just got to get lucky
Speaker 1: with an undrafted free agent. Basically you're keeping your fingers crossed.
Speaker 2: I will say this in terms of everybody always wants
Speaker 2: to know who wins the draft. I've had the same
Speaker 2: formula as long as I can remember, and I usually
Speaker 2: do it on the Monday after the draft. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to project how great your fourth, fifth, sixth, and
Speaker 2: seventh round picks are, but I will judge your off
Speaker 2: season based on your free agent signings and your first
Speaker 2: two or three picks, where I get more certainty. I
Speaker 2: think the Chicago Bears are a completely different football team
Speaker 2: with Keenan Allen, DeAndre Swift, Gerald Everett, Caleb Williams and Romadonze.
Speaker 2: That's a completely different offense. If you're asking me who
Speaker 2: won the offseason in terms of personnel, might take his
Speaker 2: Chicago won't even look the same. I thought Green Bay
Speaker 2: got better, but I don't think Chicago will even look
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 3: What do you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I listen, it's hard not to like Chicago.
Speaker 1: I mean, what they've done in the last twelve months.
Speaker 1: I think that trade that Ryan Poles made it's got
Speaker 1: to go down as one of the great trades of
Speaker 1: all time. I mean, it really does. And it's one
Speaker 1: that Carolina would like, Yeah, and to get rid of. Basically,
Speaker 1: they traded all that for Bryce Young that if you
Speaker 1: could do a redo, they would laugh in your face
Speaker 1: and Carolina would would throw in picks to swap it back.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think. I think the hype on Caleb,
Speaker 1: which is the nature of this beast, the same thing
Speaker 1: happened to Trevor Lawrence. He does not need to be
Speaker 1: immediately a superstar. He just needs to be solid, right,
Speaker 1: And they should be good because last year they could
Speaker 1: have been a playoff team if their quarterback could have
Speaker 1: just functioned from the pocket. Couldn't function from the pocket.
Speaker 1: Now you add Keenan Allen and Romaduon say, you know
Speaker 1: the best part about romadonsay, he doesn't have to do
Speaker 1: that much like he was the lead dogg at Washington,
Speaker 1: which had about fifteen guys draft that it felt like
Speaker 1: and he was a fantastic player, but he gets to
Speaker 1: ease in a lot of people like Marvin Harrison, we
Speaker 1: talked about this last on Thursday, has no choice. Anything
Speaker 1: less than eighty ninety catches. They're not getting enough out
Speaker 1: of them given what in his group. So Rome, if
Speaker 1: he just has forty five to fifty catches, maybe six touchdowns,
Speaker 1: you're awesome. Even though it's the ninth pick. You'd like
Speaker 1: a little more. But given this team this year, Keenan
Speaker 1: probably be only there one year. So next year he
Speaker 1: takes a bigger jump. But they're not as dependent on
Speaker 1: their young wide receiver as a lot of teams are
Speaker 1: when they draft a guy high.
Speaker 3: They're also going to have a fourth place schedule, so
Speaker 3: that helps.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And divisions hard. The division's hard. It might be
Speaker 1: the best division in football.
Speaker 2: I think offensively. I've said this. I think last time
Speaker 2: we were on you could make a Pro Bowl offense
Speaker 2: out of that division that he's compete with the NFL,
Speaker 2: I mean, there's just stars everywhere. And I also thought,
Speaker 2: I'll say this about the NFC and North I thought
Speaker 2: Green Bay. If you count Josh Jacobs Xavier McKinney in
Speaker 2: free agency, upgrade it back really good safety along with Morgan,
Speaker 2: Jordan Morgan the tackle from Arizona, Edrian Cooper the linebacker,
Speaker 2: and m who I heard the Rams like Bullarded the
Speaker 2: safety from Georgia. Like that's five really good players. So
Speaker 2: Green Bay. You know, it's interesting. If you told me
Speaker 2: two teams that draft well in the last decade, I
Speaker 2: would actually say Green Bay in Tampa. But they're so
Speaker 2: divergent in terms of success because one gets the quarterback
Speaker 2: right and one hasn't. I always feel with Jason light
Speaker 2: if you go look at Tampa's first four picks, I
Speaker 2: loved him. I think he's one of the best drafters
Speaker 2: in the league. They can't get quarterback right. The difference
Speaker 2: is and by the way, classic Michael who fell to
Speaker 2: the seventh, Green Bay gets him. He won't see the
Speaker 2: field for.
Speaker 1: Three years and you'll look up.
Speaker 2: He's a big kid six three, two twenty, not a
Speaker 2: huge jar, But you look up in three years and
Speaker 2: be like, what's a functional starter in the NFL? But
Speaker 2: that division, You know, it's really interesting about Chicago, Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota, Minnesota,
Speaker 2: maybe the most talented potential fourth place team that I
Speaker 2: can remember. I was doing this over the course of
Speaker 2: the weekend. I was writing down everybody's ten best players
Speaker 2: in that division. There is not much that separates Detroit Minnesota,
Speaker 2: like it's inches not. If Darnald plays well, you could
Speaker 2: see Minnesota to the last weekend competing well.
Speaker 1: Isn't it a good example? He used Jason light They
Speaker 1: had no quarterback. They insert Brady at forty two years
Speaker 1: old and just start dominating. Right. So if they would
Speaker 1: have the same roster, you would have put Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 1: the same thing would have happened. Look at last year,
Speaker 1: Baker had what seventy five percent of the season, was
Speaker 1: pretty solid, and they were a playoff team and they
Speaker 1: kicked the Eagles ass and they were right. They're in
Speaker 1: the second playoff game with the Lions. So the quarterback position,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure we'll talk about, is so important. But
Speaker 1: I'm with you, like I think Green Bay is going
Speaker 1: to be very, very dependent on this. Jeff Haffley, the
Speaker 1: guy that they hired from Boston College, who was very
Speaker 1: well thought of. Kyle Shanahan really liked them the Ohio
Speaker 1: State When Ryan Day first got the job, made him
Speaker 1: a code defensive coordinator. But he's got to be good
Speaker 1: because that's really been the downfall of their operation right
Speaker 1: just and really goes back to McCarthy with some of
Speaker 1: their great teams with Aaron Rodgers and listen, Mickveigh, what
Speaker 1: do they do defense? Right away? Kyle Shanahan, what's he
Speaker 1: always doing defense? They're all the top teams, even Dan
Speaker 1: Campbell their first two picks corners, and they've invested heavily
Speaker 1: in the defensive line. So you're playing a lot of
Speaker 1: teams in your conference, Howie Roseman over the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis Cooper, Dejen Mitchell, the tale.
Speaker 1: It's just defense. They just invest in that side of
Speaker 1: the ball. We know Green Bay and now LA Floor
Speaker 1: is well established. They're going to score a lot of
Speaker 1: points and they have explosive players. Jacobs. I think Josh
Speaker 1: Jacobs better player. Saquon Barkley. I mean that guy is
Speaker 1: when he's healthy, he's a top two or three running
Speaker 1: back in the NFL. But it's gonna come down to defense,
Speaker 1: And like you said, in that division, Listen, I don't
Speaker 1: know how good Sam Darnold's going to be But if
Speaker 1: you catch them on the right day with those offensive weapons,
Speaker 1: they could score thirty five points. So it's just you
Speaker 1: better a lot of pressures on that higher. You know,
Speaker 1: he got rid of Joe Berry, who was his buddy.
Speaker 1: It wasn't going as well. Not all his fault. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's the players too, but they've invested. They have invested
Speaker 1: a lot of picks, right, The Packers have on that
Speaker 1: side of the ball over the last half decade, a
Speaker 1: ton of high round picks on defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny because the Bears won seven games
Speaker 2: last year and they may not win more than eight
Speaker 2: this year. That's why I feel like, don't judge the
Speaker 2: Bears and Caleb on wins. The division is I think
Speaker 2: it is the best division in football. It's certainly the
Speaker 2: best division in terms of skill people. I mean that
Speaker 2: the receiving talent and the tight end talent and that
Speaker 2: division is insane. Yeah, it's like seven really in the
Speaker 2: in the division, there's seven good tight ends.
Speaker 3: Gerald Effert's a good, solid being tied end in the NFL.
Speaker 2: I do want to I do want to get into
Speaker 2: the quarterback thing because I was I've said this for
Speaker 2: several years. I think the Writers have a good roster,
Speaker 2: they just don't have the tight end.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: They're a little bit like Tampa. So back to back
Speaker 2: they go get Brock Bauers, mayor the Notre Dame kid.
Speaker 2: Last year they've.
Speaker 1: Got they drafted the center from Oregon, right.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep.
Speaker 2: So and I was texting with Tom te LESCo. Without
Speaker 2: divulging too much, I said, what you should be rooting
Speaker 2: for is Bryce Young and Will Levis to hit, I said,
Speaker 2: because then next year the number of teams that need
Speaker 2: a quarterback, Giants will probably take a swing. Jets will,
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure it's in the first round. You'll
Speaker 2: want to get airon some help. But I said, you know,
Speaker 2: if you look at last year's quarterback class and this
Speaker 2: year's quarterback class, and there's not a lot of teams, Okay,
Speaker 2: Will Levis my guess they'll move off him. Maybe Bryce
Speaker 2: Young has to buy Thanksgiving and they got him some
Speaker 2: more pieces, has to do something. I think the Giants
Speaker 2: will eventually draft somebody. But John I went through it
Speaker 2: this morning. Also on the on the free agent market,
Speaker 2: you could have Tua and Dak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no.
Speaker 2: Question now I think I think Jerry will re sign him.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting with the Raiders, were you know, I
Speaker 2: was going back and forth and I said, what you
Speaker 2: want to do if you're the Raiders next year? If
Speaker 2: you're and they'll probably finish fourth in division based on
Speaker 2: quarterback and you know, a defensive coach facing offensive coaches.
Speaker 2: I was like, you could win seven games, finished fourth,
Speaker 2: have an eight pick. Just cross your fingers. There may
Speaker 2: not be more than three teams in the league next
Speaker 2: year along with the Raiders that need a quarterback.
Speaker 1: I think it hit me on Friday because obviously we
Speaker 1: were all and I heard your take on the Cousin's
Speaker 1: Penick situation with you know, kind of being an insurance policy.
Speaker 1: I think if everyone got to redo this offseason, because
Speaker 1: when March fifteenth hits, you know, teams like the Raiders
Speaker 1: and the Falcons, they didn't make the playoffs, so they
Speaker 1: have had two and a half months to kind of
Speaker 1: prepare it. Now. The Raiders were hiring. Some people say
Speaker 1: with the Falcons too, so there were some moving parts.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a seamless transition. I think if you
Speaker 1: can get a redo, you would do something pretty simple.
Speaker 1: Christian Wilkins the Atlanta Falcons. The Raiders wouldn't sign him.
Speaker 1: They would have signed Kirk Cousins to one hundred million
Speaker 1: dollar deal instead of the defensive lineman. Because they have
Speaker 1: a team full of high end guy they have no quarterback.
Speaker 1: And the Falcons would have signed Gardner Minshew or Sam
Speaker 1: Darnold for ten million dollars and drafted the twenty four
Speaker 1: year old quarterback who's going to be ready to go,
Speaker 1: and sign the defensive lineman and listen, I don't blame
Speaker 1: the Raiders. They kind of got stuck. When you're drafting
Speaker 1: not in the top ten, you don't control everything. Once
Speaker 1: Penix goes, that's the guy I think that they like.
Speaker 1: Maybe they got stuck, But when you're in this no
Speaker 1: man position, what do you do? You know, Gardner Minshew's
Speaker 1: not fixing your problems. Gardner Minshew and Sam Darnold fix
Speaker 1: your problems when you can invest in a young quarterback
Speaker 1: and give you a little breathing room. But to me,
Speaker 1: the Raiders they drafted players that everyone loved. I bet
Speaker 1: the entire league you're not going to meet one coach
Speaker 1: or GM that didn't like Brock Bowers as a high
Speaker 1: end player. Right, But what does he do for you
Speaker 1: when your two quarterbacks are Gardner Minshew and O'Connell from
Speaker 1: Purdue and it's no one's fault, Like this is kind
Speaker 1: of who they had the cousins thinks maybe he wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been that interested. Arthur Blank has more cash, so
Speaker 1: the way he can structure a deal. But going back
Speaker 1: to Atlanta, you only get so many resources. I remember
Speaker 1: how he said this in a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: in a press conference. Every team in the league. What
Speaker 1: makes the NFL different than all these other leagues. Everyone
Speaker 1: has the same resources. We all have the same amount
Speaker 1: of money and the same around amount of draft picks.
Speaker 1: You just choose how you use them. Right. The reason
Speaker 1: the Browns have no first round picks they traded for
Speaker 1: to Shawn Watson and they allocate a lot of money
Speaker 1: to him. Well, once you allocate all this money to
Speaker 1: Cousins like the Atlanta Falcons did, when you draft a
Speaker 1: quarterback high, one of his great attributes is the contract, right,
Speaker 1: So using that money to sign Christian Wilkins, Well, the
Speaker 1: quarterback position only one guy can be on the field.
Speaker 1: And this guy is not McCarthy or a Drake May
Speaker 1: who is a you know, a project, the guy that
Speaker 1: you want to not force on the field. He is.
Speaker 1: He was probably the most beside Caleb, like you just
Speaker 1: want to see him play right away, right, And I
Speaker 1: think this goes back to they fell in love with
Speaker 1: him over the last month. Well, what the hell were
Speaker 1: you doing six months ago? What were you doing? You
Speaker 1: would have known at the combine this is just bad.
Speaker 1: Like part of the draft, the planning goes if you
Speaker 1: find Howie Roseman or Veitch, they've been planning the shit
Speaker 1: for six months, building out strategies. It feels like these
Speaker 1: guys are flying by the seat of their pants. No
Speaker 1: one would argue, and I'm with you, you're better off
Speaker 1: having more invested in the quarterback position doubling down. But
Speaker 1: the resources here are a little funky. And Chris Sim's
Speaker 1: had a good tweet. He's like, well, Cousins, not gonna
Speaker 1: be ready at OTA's. Who's gonna be out there slinging?
Speaker 1: It's all these young guys. It's gonna be Pennix. So
Speaker 1: is there gonna be a natural gravitation? You know, there's
Speaker 1: an age gap all of a sudden, like why are
Speaker 1: we playing this old guy? If this young guy it
Speaker 1: could get weird, and it could get weird fast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, it's it's it was odd and it's not
Speaker 2: what I would have done. But my takeaway is Arthur
Speaker 2: BLANKSKT is in the eighties.
Speaker 3: He's getting old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And his takeaway is We've got some really good
Speaker 2: young pieces and a great old line. And my take
Speaker 2: is you have to be careful about having a strident
Speaker 2: opinion when there are realistic scenarios that could ensue. Cousins
Speaker 2: could come back and he wasn't mobilele for this, and
Speaker 2: you could have a guy that's just a ham and egger.
Speaker 1: Secondly sick, which is very likely when you say it
Speaker 1: was fifty to fifty chance probably.
Speaker 3: I mean Aaron Rodgers stopped moving about two years ago.
Speaker 3: What is he now?
Speaker 2: He's gonna be a pocket quarterback. And the other scenario
Speaker 2: is sixty six quarterbacks played last year. Cousins may get hurt.
Speaker 2: So I almost feel like Ridder was so bad, Desmond
Speaker 2: Ridder was so bad. There's a sense in the building like, listen,
Speaker 2: we're not paying any of these young guys yet.
Speaker 1: We're really not.
Speaker 3: We're not paying any of them. They're all just kids.
Speaker 2: Let's just let's just go get Cousins to ensure because
Speaker 2: I don't know if they thought when they were doing
Speaker 2: when they signed Cousins, Pennix was It's funny.
Speaker 3: Pennis had a rollercoaster.
Speaker 2: Everybody was red hot on him, then everybody bailed on him.
Speaker 2: And then we find out after the draft that four teams,
Speaker 2: including Atlanta, were interested in the first round. So he
Speaker 2: went from hot to second round prospect to apparently red
Speaker 2: hot during the draft. So my take is, you know,
Speaker 2: I could see Atlanta being like, Okay, let's let's let's
Speaker 2: just sign him. We could get him later and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, because I do know the Seahawks, the
Speaker 2: Raiders like teams were interested in them, Like.
Speaker 1: For sure, I got no issue taking them eight, zero
Speaker 1: issue taking aim Et. I just think when you plan
Speaker 1: an organization, that's the GM's job is to think big picture.
Speaker 1: And I understand at the time signing Minshew or signing Darnold,
Speaker 1: people would have been like, what the hell are you doing?
Speaker 1: But you should have had a pretty good idea because
Speaker 1: you've been picking eight for four months now, Like this,
Speaker 1: the spot didn't change. You were gonna get that guy.
Speaker 1: You have the juice to get that guy at eight
Speaker 1: and I just think using that amount of money, because
Speaker 1: when you give that amount of guaranteed, and we saw
Speaker 1: it with Russell who was bigger, it does stick on
Speaker 1: your cap for several years, and that's a position where
Speaker 1: you can't use them both. Like sometimes if you miss
Speaker 1: on O lineman or a D lineman, you can rotate
Speaker 1: guys or wide receivers. I just think you're so dependent
Speaker 1: and Cousins, what happens immediately his agents and I like
Speaker 1: Mike McCartney, but he immediately comes out like we're blown away.
Speaker 1: I saw Colt McCoy say, you know Cousins in pretty sense.
Speaker 1: So you get in the when you get in the
Speaker 1: sensitive business. And it's not like he doesn't have the
Speaker 1: equity of the in the league, like a Brady or
Speaker 1: a Rogers, where it's like whatever, we're getting this all
Speaker 1: time great player. There are a lot of people are like, hey,
Speaker 1: he's good, but how good? I just think the locker
Speaker 1: room dynamics and Belichick was always great at this. It's
Speaker 1: already weird. It's already going to be weird, especially when
Speaker 1: you factor in OTA's are going to start in the
Speaker 1: next month and Pennix is going to be out there
Speaker 1: because the other guys in the training room getting getting
Speaker 1: ready hopefully for training camp. So I mean fundamentally, I
Speaker 1: get like investing in the quarterback position goes back to
Speaker 1: Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf totally. But when you factor
Speaker 1: in the amount of money, it does just limit your ability.
Speaker 1: And this is not the other thing with Pennix is
Speaker 1: even maybe more than Caleb, Like he's just a plug
Speaker 1: and plagu he's twenty five, You're twenty four to twenty
Speaker 1: five years old, Like what the hell? Like this is
Speaker 1: not a Jordan Love situation. And I think that's where
Speaker 1: a lot of people the media can say whatever, but
Speaker 1: like the league's pushing back because it's just like a
Speaker 1: it's a very bizarre situation. I think it does reflect
Speaker 1: the organization who's like, oh, yeah, Belichick, we're too good
Speaker 1: for Belichick. It's Frank, who the fuck are you guys?
Speaker 3: Now, I listen.
Speaker 2: I mean at times I called it illogical and on
Speaker 2: its surface, you know, my take was Friday is listen is.
Speaker 1: I think it's financially illogical more than football illogical, right.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just this is the worst division in football.
Speaker 2: I think they have the best quarterback and maybe the
Speaker 2: best backup in the league. I'm like, it make mistakes
Speaker 2: at that position, just go for it. I'm okay with it,
Speaker 2: but it but it And it Also what's interesting, I
Speaker 2: would have much more of a problem because I think
Speaker 2: they paid what did they paid Cousins one for Was
Speaker 2: it like one hundred and forty?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I think the fake number was closer
Speaker 1: to one to eighty. But they gave him one hundred
Speaker 1: true guaranteed money and like basically seventy million dollars over
Speaker 1: the next eighteen months, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's very front loaded. What worries me is that
Speaker 2: Dak and Tua, with their current teams, will want double that.
Speaker 2: So I always feel like with Cousins might take it's
Speaker 2: all front loaded. If Thanksgiving of the second year you're
Speaker 2: done with him, you're fine. Dak wants a five year deal,
Speaker 2: and it's like pan three point fifty for Dak is.
Speaker 1: Literally a I'm with you there. I'd rather give Cousins
Speaker 1: one hundred than Dak to fifty. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if all the bad things you can do,
Speaker 2: I can live with a year and a half of
Speaker 2: Cousins on the field competing.
Speaker 3: I can live with them.
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Speaker 2: deliver Prism, Don Russ Select got them all all the
Speaker 2: top cards and more. You know, I thought Harball was
Speaker 2: going to have U there were going to be more
Speaker 2: fireworks with the chargers. I did think they got a
Speaker 2: couple of really interesting pieces, a couple of small school guys.
Speaker 2: But I think by and large, the Joe allpick was
Speaker 2: interesting because they have a left tackle. Though Slater had
Speaker 2: an injury and all, it's kind of an He's an athlete,
Speaker 2: he was a high school basketball player. He's he's moved around,
Speaker 2: he's been a he's a very good apple.
Speaker 1: You see the pictures after we got off of him
Speaker 1: sitting with his family. How massive that human being is.
Speaker 2: So it's one of those things where I never bought
Speaker 2: into them taking a wide receiver.
Speaker 3: I just didn't buy And everybody's mock draft have them
Speaker 3: at receiver, and I'm thinking.
Speaker 2: That's just not what They're not going to get. Some
Speaker 2: skinny kid from LSU who's so I mean to me,
Speaker 2: the pick made sense. But I didn't think the Chargers
Speaker 2: had that many fireworks. I thought they did this basic stuff,
Speaker 2: played in the gym. You know, I think they got
Speaker 2: a linebacker, if I recall from the Michigan Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't think there was a ton of
Speaker 2: fireworks with the Chargers.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is most people, up until the
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks when I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people around the NFL like Gym's not taking a wide receiver, guys,
Speaker 1: So we can stop talking about that. But even the
Speaker 1: second pick in Lad McConkie, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: people have been like, go get Herbert, go trade up
Speaker 1: and get a Savior worthy or you know, get Keon Coleman,
Speaker 1: the guy that Bills took, and he took Lad McConkey.
Speaker 1: You know who's gonna end up to me being more
Speaker 1: Edelman Wes Welker can play right in the slot receiver.
Speaker 1: Jim's not into this sexy football. He's not trying to
Speaker 1: be you know, Lane Kiffin or Lincoln Riley. That's not
Speaker 1: the way he coaches. He coaches like he's prepared to
Speaker 1: pay play Mike Ditka and Joe Gibbs back in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight. And that's the way that's been successful up
Speaker 1: into him three months ago when he won the national championship. Fundamentally,
Speaker 1: that's and I think when he said we view offensive
Speaker 1: lineman as weapons, he's not making a joke. He's being
Speaker 1: serious as a hard attack because he truly believes that.
Speaker 1: So justin Herbert, like they are, I'm actually a little
Speaker 1: shocked that they didn't get Blake Korum. I'm pissed the
Speaker 1: Rams and I love that pick, but that it's just
Speaker 1: he's going to the football is going to look no
Speaker 1: different than if you pull up Stanford year one in eight.
Speaker 1: It's going to look the exact same. And it looked
Speaker 1: the same into the forty nine ers. Early on in
Speaker 1: Michigan he changed for a minute. Remember when he hired Gaddis,
Speaker 1: spread guy from alb and he hated it and he
Speaker 1: hated it. And then who became his right hand man,
Speaker 1: Sharon Moore? What's the an O line coach? And that
Speaker 1: guy became the head. Those are the people he likes.
Speaker 1: You see these videos coming out of him at the
Speaker 1: at the trailer park. It was not the trailer park,
Speaker 1: but you know where he lived right with Greg Roman.
Speaker 1: What do they talk about running game? Offensive linemen, they're
Speaker 1: all that hybrid of the ravens of him. They're all interconnected.
Speaker 1: And I'm just honestly, if you would have told me
Speaker 1: he would have drafted all offensive and defensive linemen, those
Speaker 1: were the only picks, no wide receivers two weeks ago,
Speaker 1: I would have believed you. I mean, that's not how
Speaker 1: it played out. But he thinks he can win. If
Speaker 1: he's winning at that group, he can figure the rest
Speaker 1: out through I would say psychological and physical warfare because
Speaker 1: he wants to shove you around. And let's face it,
Speaker 1: most teams in the NFL, you know, when you look
Speaker 1: at like once we get to the final four of
Speaker 1: the final eight, it's a lot of physical teams and
Speaker 1: the soft team. Some teams that can score, they got
Speaker 1: no shot. They got no shot. And you look at
Speaker 1: the final four, who wasn't It was the Niners, it
Speaker 1: was the Ravens, it was the Chiefs. What have the
Speaker 1: lions become under Dan Campbell? Dan Campbell's got a little
Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh in him. Yeah right, And I would say
Speaker 1: they throw it a little more than Jim. But that's
Speaker 1: part of It's their weapons. Saint Brown's a fantastic player,
Speaker 1: but it starts with the offensive and defensive lines with them,
Speaker 1: and that's where they've invested the last couple years. Even
Speaker 1: Saint Brown, Jim would love Saint Brown. So with Kyle Shanahan,
Speaker 1: he's their type, breaks tackles, He's not some sexy outside
Speaker 1: wide receiver despite his stats.
Speaker 2: Well, this is what the Rams have done the last
Speaker 2: two years o line. They paid two guards. I mean
Speaker 2: the Rams said, we're gonna pay guards and their receivers.
Speaker 2: Pooka breaks tackles, Cooper Cup breaks tackles.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know it's funny. People tend to.
Speaker 2: Think offensive coaches are clever and they want finesse. But
Speaker 2: McVeigh changed his offense to more power running. That's why
Speaker 2: Korum was so valuable. They needed Kyra and Williams, they
Speaker 2: needed a backup. They invested an interior line. Shanahan likes
Speaker 2: physical football. Harball likes physical football. Andy Reid is a little.
Speaker 3: He's he's unique around.
Speaker 2: He's a little bit. I almost put him in just
Speaker 2: a different class. It's like there are certain people in
Speaker 2: every sport that just don't.
Speaker 1: Like But think about when that when they picked, when
Speaker 1: they pivot, when they pivoted off Tyreek Hill, what did
Speaker 1: they do. They've drafted uh McDuffie and Karlovskis with their
Speaker 1: two picks right away. So he's invested heavily on that
Speaker 1: side of the ball this year. Xavier Worthy, he was
Speaker 1: too hard for them to pass up with the speed.
Speaker 1: But I'm with you.
Speaker 2: So I went and it was interesting. I went and
Speaker 2: I went and looked at all my divisions. So we're
Speaker 2: basically through it now. We have new coaches, we have
Speaker 2: free agency staffs are all for that.
Speaker 3: We have the draft, and.
Speaker 2: I'll just do the first and last place teams and
Speaker 2: stop me, this is.
Speaker 1: What this is what you think coming up or this
Speaker 1: was based on last year?
Speaker 2: This this season? I have Buffalo first, New England last, Yes,
Speaker 2: Baltimore first, Cleveland last. Cleveland had a weird.
Speaker 1: Draft since he since he could be a wild card there,
Speaker 1: Burrows healthy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I put them second, Kansas City first, Raiders last,
Speaker 2: tough division, Houston first, Tennessee's an easy last, Philly first,
Speaker 2: I have Giants last. I'm with it, Detroit first, Minnesota last,
Speaker 2: though it's close, Atlanta first, New Orleans last, or Carolina
Speaker 2: kind of question mark. I have the Rams first, and
Speaker 2: I have Seattle last. I think the Rams are I
Speaker 2: thought they really nailed their first four picks. I thought
Speaker 2: they really Yeah, is anything so we can argue about
Speaker 2: the second and third teams, but any of those first
Speaker 2: and last you would push back on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about McVeigh because I thought he's a
Speaker 1: good example what Kyle and Andy and these offensive coaches
Speaker 1: have invested in physical players because they know that they
Speaker 1: can scheme guys open. And he invests his first pick
Speaker 1: in Verse, who's been a few as a first rounder
Speaker 1: this whole year. They heard him, they loved him, this
Speaker 1: second round pick. One of the guy. When I started
Speaker 1: at Fresno State, we had a student assistant who has
Speaker 1: worked his way up and he's been with Oregon State.
Speaker 1: He's been the GM for Florida State for like the
Speaker 1: last three years. And he's Derek Ray. He's you know,
Speaker 1: if we talked about college gms like we do NFL GMC,
Speaker 1: I mean, look at his draft. I mean how many
Speaker 1: guys at Florida State were has picked. He's done a
Speaker 1: great job working hand in hand with Norvel. I said,
Speaker 1: what this Brandon Fisk guy, Brandon Fisk tell me about him?
Speaker 1: He said, think Max Crosby. But inside, so their first
Speaker 1: two picks, you know, we know that's how Verse kind
Speaker 1: of plays power, That's what this guy plays. So you're
Speaker 1: never going to replace Aaron Donald. But they go back
Speaker 1: to back picks basically in what fifteen to twenty pick,
Speaker 1: because they traded up, they got they got Fisk in
Speaker 1: the top forty, so they invest immediately and they get
Speaker 1: Blake korm who if he's healthy. We've seen how this
Speaker 1: guy was a heartbeat of one of the better college
Speaker 1: football programs we've seen over the last twenty years. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like Jim Harbaugh's favorite player since Frank Gore. So
Speaker 1: I think the gap shrunk a little bit. And I
Speaker 1: think Kyle Shanahan showed you something drafting that wide receiver
Speaker 1: in the first round. Deebo Samuel could not get open
Speaker 1: to Super Bowl. He can't run routes. And I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to talk about dede Ball. I love him. He's
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff he does in football. I admire
Speaker 1: a lot the physicality, the ability to make plays, but
Speaker 1: he is limited as a wide receiver. He can't get open,
Speaker 1: and I think Kyle was tired of him, and it's
Speaker 1: not at this point in time, it's not going to change.
Speaker 1: He kind of is what it is. So maybe Deebo,
Speaker 1: moving forward, you're gonna be on this new kickoff return
Speaker 1: guy and you'll kind of come in with McCaffrey in
Speaker 1: the backfield. But we need to run. We need to
Speaker 1: have wide receivers like a yuk who can run routes
Speaker 1: and because like look at the Rams. They got a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys that can run routes. I can't scheme
Speaker 1: up every single play. We got guys on defense, we
Speaker 1: got guys on offense. But that they drafted Piersoll like
Speaker 1: that clearly was something that rattle Shanahan, just like McVeigh, like,
Speaker 1: we need to be even more physic if we're going
Speaker 1: to get over that hump against all these great offenses.
Speaker 1: And they double down. So I think I think those
Speaker 1: two teams right there with the Lions, right there with
Speaker 1: the Packers, right there with the Eagles. I gu it's
Speaker 1: pretty clear with the NFC who's who the cream of
Speaker 1: the crop is, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think I also think you have to
Speaker 2: take this into consideration. Is Debo McCaffrey's had injuries in
Speaker 2: his career, Trent Kittle, you can't have your four top
Speaker 2: guys all feel like they're older than their age. Like
Speaker 2: if you have Ayyuk is a kid, right, he's.
Speaker 3: Just moving into his prime.
Speaker 2: Doesn't get hurt off if you're going to move off
Speaker 2: and next year they have to address left tackle because
Speaker 2: Trent is a wall.
Speaker 3: But I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I look at the NFC and I think it's I mean,
Speaker 2: the Rams were so much better than everybody thought. I
Speaker 2: knew going into the weekend. They felt Brock Bauers could
Speaker 2: start for him. Two of the defensive ends they thought
Speaker 2: were really good, the Ucla kid and Jared Verse.
Speaker 3: They love those two.
Speaker 2: And then I knew they loved a couple different defensive
Speaker 2: linemen and the Florida State guy Fisk is one of them.
Speaker 2: And then I felt Blake Cole.
Speaker 3: I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Knew they loved Korum, but I mean they when people
Speaker 2: got on them for giving up a second round pick
Speaker 2: and a fifth to move up, they really felt like
Speaker 2: they needed two starters in the defensive line, a great
Speaker 2: backup running back for Kien Williams, and a playmaking guy
Speaker 2: in the back the Miami kid. Like they didn't have
Speaker 2: a lot of needs, a lot of their stuff after
Speaker 2: those picks. Interior lineman Kicker, the Texas receivers were the
Speaker 2: a special teams guy, otherwise they would have taken Taj
Speaker 2: Washington from USC. They who they liked a lot, but
Speaker 2: they needed a special teams guy. So I mean, I
Speaker 2: think a lot of these teams come into the weekend,
Speaker 2: the NFC teams, and the Rams are one of them.
Speaker 2: I think people forget this for the elite teams, and
Speaker 2: I consider the Rams in a group of about seven
Speaker 2: or eight, they come in kind of thinking we need
Speaker 2: two starters and like two really crucial productive backups.
Speaker 3: But I've never had a.
Speaker 2: Problem John with giving away picks to go get up
Speaker 2: and get a guy. Now, when you were with the Eagles,
Speaker 2: what was the theory on that, because I think all
Speaker 2: the all the draft picks. Here's my point, Rams had
Speaker 2: eleven picks. There's not eleven guys that can make the
Speaker 2: team in this draft.
Speaker 1: Well, how he's going to be there forever? So he
Speaker 1: balanced his short and long term better than anybody. It's
Speaker 1: why they're always going up to get guys and then
Speaker 1: may they made. They led the league in trades this year,
Speaker 1: and they acquired a third, a fourth, and a fifth.
Speaker 1: Sean McVay almost went to Amazon a year ago. You're
Speaker 1: living in the present with this guy. You are doing
Speaker 1: everything possible in twenty four to twenty five, hopefully twenty six.
Speaker 1: Is Sean McVeigh gonna be there in five years. I'm
Speaker 1: with you. A lot of teams give away a second
Speaker 1: round pick, little this is this is about the present
Speaker 1: to me. They clearly the Niners the last couple of
Speaker 1: years have been twelve thirteen, and there was a gap,
Speaker 1: you know, even between them last year. To me that
Speaker 1: they're both eleven twelve win teams in the NFC, I
Speaker 1: have no problem with trading up. One thing how he
Speaker 1: did is acquiring the third, fourth, and fifth. He thought
Speaker 1: because of this weird kind of couple of years, Fan
Speaker 1: we've been on. With these extra years, a lot of
Speaker 1: these guys, did you know to some of these guys
Speaker 1: getting drafted started playing in twenty eighteen. I mean there
Speaker 1: were guys. There was a Jayden Daniels video that went
Speaker 1: viral of him throwing the ball to Brandon Ayuk against
Speaker 1: Justin Herbert. You know, with Leonor playing corner for Oregon.
Speaker 1: He's been on the Niners for like four years. So
Speaker 1: it's all out of whack. Well, a lot of the
Speaker 1: underclassmen this year who teams thought were gonna be from
Speaker 1: anywhere from forty to like one hundred guys that would
Speaker 1: have been drafted on the second day went back to
Speaker 1: school for an nil. So the drafts viewed as a
Speaker 1: little deeper next year, and I think some teams kind
Speaker 1: of factored that in Sean McVay doesn't give a crap
Speaker 1: about anything, a lot like Sean Payton. It's very much
Speaker 1: these next couple of years and then we'll figure it
Speaker 1: out that the aftermath. The one thing with the Rams
Speaker 1: have going for him, and you hit on their team's
Speaker 1: pretty young now, right, A lot like the Packers. I
Speaker 1: don't view it now. They're quarterbacks aging, which is a
Speaker 1: unique situation for them, and he's there's a lot of
Speaker 1: wear and tear on those tires. But as we saw,
Speaker 1: when Matt Stafford is upright and healthy, easy a top
Speaker 1: five quarterback in the NFL.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the you know, it was funny. I felt.
Speaker 2: I felt the Bears and the Packers came out of
Speaker 2: off season real winners. I thought the Rams came out
Speaker 2: of this draft as real winners. Atlanta's his quirky and
Speaker 2: time will tell I actually the pick I hated. I
Speaker 2: thought they reached by almost a round on the defensive lineman,
Speaker 2: which was a weird pick for them. That was the
Speaker 2: one I'm like, oh yeah, I went to all I
Speaker 2: went to all the draft profiles, I went to all
Speaker 2: the mock drafts like that.
Speaker 1: Well, the Illinois defensive tackle goes a couple of picks later,
Speaker 1: he was widely viewed as a top thirty player that
Speaker 1: the Washington got.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was just a miss. I mean,
Speaker 2: if if Pennix ends up being great, we're gonna forget
Speaker 2: about the Kirk Cousins deal very quickly. We're just not
Speaker 2: even gonna We're not even gonna care about it. That
Speaker 2: was just a bad pick. I thought Atlanta had a
Speaker 2: weird last week. I I and I know people to
Speaker 2: talk a lot about the Dallas Cowboys to the point
Speaker 2: of exhaustion. I I thought Dallas had a weird draft,
Speaker 2: and I thought Tennessee taking alignment. The Titans are a
Speaker 2: mystery to me. So they take this Devonte sweat guy
Speaker 2: from Texas. So when I went to the Chargers war
Speaker 2: room years ago, they had a list of like eight
Speaker 2: guys that were off the board. There was a drug issue.
Speaker 2: There were no gohoses, Like, I don't know what the
Speaker 2: hell Tennessee is doing like that. I mean to me,
Speaker 2: that team needs players that will produce with no questions.
Speaker 2: That may have been the weirdest pick of the weekend.
Speaker 1: Well, to me, you have when you get a new
Speaker 1: young head coach, you're in a position where you want
Speaker 1: to be very a smooth transition. Look at Washington, a
Speaker 1: lot of high character team captains, not screwing around. You
Speaker 1: can eventually, I'm sure we'll get into Ballard. Take a
Speaker 1: guy I think that had some question marks in the
Speaker 1: second round when your team is full of team captain,
Speaker 1: high character guys. The Titans a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: drafted a Georgia offensive lineman who is one of the
Speaker 1: biggest busts in recent memory. I think he's out of
Speaker 1: the league, Wilson. And then to get a guy and listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not some moral high horse. That's not my style.
Speaker 1: Drinking whatever. We've all made mistakes when we were young.
Speaker 1: But there were a lot of question marks with this
Speaker 1: guy's drinking, and he admitted to it with teams, and
Speaker 1: then three weeks before the draft, he gets a DUI
Speaker 1: on Sunday afternoon. Sunday afternoon, he weighs three hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy pounds, So to get a dui over point one,
Speaker 1: the amount of alcohol he has to take is a
Speaker 1: lot different than me or you under two hundred pounds,
Speaker 1: so you just start factoring that in. He was off
Speaker 1: draft boards, not even a question off several draft boards,
Speaker 1: just because like not even worth it. I've been to
Speaker 1: Nashville twice, probably been a total of twelve or thirteen days.
Speaker 1: I drank every single day I was there. It is
Speaker 1: a party town. No, there is a lot going on.
Speaker 1: It is much closer for people that haven't been there
Speaker 1: to New Orleans or Vegas. Then most people realize there
Speaker 1: was at and they play in their stadium is right
Speaker 1: in the mix. So to have a guy it's one
Speaker 1: thing if you're like, well, he fell to the fifth round.
Speaker 1: This guy was a second round talent. Okay, they drafted
Speaker 1: him right where his value. Who's going to go early
Speaker 1: second round? Best case if everything off the field was clear,
Speaker 1: because he's a run stop, you know, stopping defensive tackle,
Speaker 1: not a pass rusher. I don't get it. When you
Speaker 1: just had a character issue a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: and this guy literally got a duy a month ago
Speaker 1: and you already knew those were question marks, and you
Speaker 1: have a brand new head coach.
Speaker 3: Why would you screw with this?
Speaker 1: Why would you mess with it? I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I thought that was the worst pick of
Speaker 2: the weekend. And I also think you're right. Nash Vegas
Speaker 2: is what they call it. And I also think that
Speaker 2: I was told years ago. It may have been my
Speaker 2: Mike Lombardi when he was at FS one. Briefly he said, listen,
Speaker 2: if you're in a port city, New York, you know,
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, Miami, it's Miami. Like those are livelier city.
Speaker 2: There's more restaurants, there's more alcohol. Those are those are
Speaker 2: port city is a fun Yeah, And he's like, you know,
Speaker 2: Green Bay is different. If Sweat goes fourth round to
Speaker 2: the Packers and you're like, well, he could be at
Speaker 2: the Marriott Bar.
Speaker 3: That's about it.
Speaker 2: It does feel different than going second round of the Titans.
Speaker 2: All stuff is circumstantial in this league, and so to me,
Speaker 2: I think I've just gotten to the point with Tennessee.
Speaker 2: I always thought they were well run. I think they're
Speaker 2: a bit of a bit of an S show. I
Speaker 2: really do. The last couple of years letting go of
Speaker 2: Rabel and I know Mike. I've talked to Mike on
Speaker 2: the phone, I've texted him. I don't think they know
Speaker 2: what they're doing. I just do not think they know
Speaker 2: what they're doing.
Speaker 1: I like the new coach he brings his dad. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was pretty bullish on what they're gonna do. But
Speaker 1: this general manager, Ran Karthin. You know, he came out
Speaker 1: and said a couple of weeks ago in his press conference,
Speaker 1: this is my first draft, taking a shot at Mike, like,
Speaker 1: no one let me do anything before. Like good luck, buddy.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not He comes the forty nine
Speaker 1: ers where they were not messing with this type stuff.
Speaker 1: So to do it if it is your first quote
Speaker 1: unquote draft, I just I can't get over It's one
Speaker 1: thing like Dak Remember he got a Dewey or whatever
Speaker 1: got in trouble, but everyone knew the character was not
Speaker 1: a question. It's like, listen, he made a bad mistake,
Speaker 1: stupid whatever, a guy with consistent character marks. When you
Speaker 1: get in trouble for the draft, it's like absolutely no
Speaker 1: chance I can trust you. Zero with a high pick
Speaker 1: because I'm investing taking a guy in the top forty.
Speaker 1: That's a valuable, valuable pick. I mean, some of those
Speaker 1: guys in the from thirty two to thirty eight are
Speaker 1: going to turn out to be some of the best
Speaker 1: players in the draft. That happens every single year. So
Speaker 1: to invest in that player after you got in trouble
Speaker 1: in your city is like It's like the opposite of
Speaker 1: what the Rams are doing, getting super right character. You know,
Speaker 1: got guys that everyone swears my Like, what are we
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 3: Then?
Speaker 1: This is why I saw it at the combine. It's
Speaker 1: so enlightening. You walk by and you just see like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this team's got no shot. This team's got no shot.
Speaker 1: This team from the circles around you, it's it's not
Speaker 1: a fair fight.
Speaker 3: Yeah I was. I spent the weekend.
Speaker 2: I spent Saturday eight hours eating smoking cigars and cocktails
Speaker 2: with Steve Kime. We had like one of the great
Speaker 2: days of our lives. We found a cigar bar and
Speaker 2: we just talked NFL, watched the draft and talk stories
Speaker 2: and some of the stuff Steve Khime had to deal
Speaker 2: with in Arizona. He was with him like twenty four years.
Speaker 2: I mean, he got like the first scouting job up.
Speaker 2: I don't think fans. I don't think fans realized two things.
Speaker 2: One half of these owners are impossible to work with.
Speaker 2: Just I mean, listen, Ballard is dealing with the most
Speaker 2: impulsive guy in the league, bid Well, Woody Johnson. Woody
Speaker 2: Johnson like beyond it would be like having the worst
Speaker 2: boss of your life. Not really beholden to any corporate struck.
Speaker 1: Who owns the company, has the unlimited money, and who's nuts.
Speaker 2: Kime had to deal with stuff here on game day
Speaker 2: and after games, parking space issues, when you got a
Speaker 2: right tackle that his season ended. It's insane. And the
Speaker 2: other thing is fans tend to think everybody's equally competent,
Speaker 2: and it's like, I mean, there are people in every industry,
Speaker 2: including the NFL, that just they just.
Speaker 3: Don't know what they're doing. And I think, I mean.
Speaker 2: I there are power struggles going on with coaches. I
Speaker 2: mean Bill Belichick his last five years when he controlled
Speaker 2: the draft. I mean I talked to a GM over
Speaker 2: the weekend who said, you wanted to do business with them?
Speaker 2: Like Bill didn't really quite know what he was doing
Speaker 2: in the personnel. He didn't really know exactly what he
Speaker 2: was doing. He was a great coach, but you could
Speaker 2: work him a little bit in personnel. So I think
Speaker 2: you look at Tennessee right now and it just doesn't
Speaker 2: look organized, you know, And I think this is I
Speaker 2: think it's a I think it's a problem throughout the league.
Speaker 2: I think I think some I mean, let's be honest,
Speaker 2: the Raiders don't feel as buttoned up as Kansas City.
Speaker 2: I think everybody can see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Chargers immediately get two guys one from
Speaker 1: Baltimore and Jim Harbaugh and feel like they know what
Speaker 1: they're doing right now. I always thought Tom's a good GM,
Speaker 1: but the Brandon's Day element, it's hard because you have
Speaker 1: to You can't just draft players you like that your
Speaker 1: coaching staff doesn't like. So there's always a give and take.
Speaker 1: But when you have I watched a lot of press
Speaker 1: conferences after the draft on all the days, and McVeigh
Speaker 1: had a really good take where he's like the symmetry
Speaker 1: seven eight years into this make's doing business a lot
Speaker 1: easier with the two of us and our scouts and
Speaker 1: our coaches, like, we kind of know what we're doing now, right.
Speaker 1: John Lynch and Kyle shanahan have been in a draft
Speaker 1: room and Sean mcvahan, let's need for eight years together.
Speaker 1: That's longer than Howie and Sirianni and a lot of
Speaker 1: Brett Veach and Andy Reid have been together.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Javitch hasn't always been his GM for twenty plus years.
Speaker 1: Right when the Ravens come on, you know, Ozzie knwsom
Speaker 1: restired like five years ago. He still sits at the
Speaker 1: head of the table. He sits at the head of
Speaker 1: the table like where your dad or grandfather would sit.
Speaker 1: Eric the Costa sits next to him. So it shows
Speaker 1: their power dynamic. John Harbaugh has been the coach there
Speaker 1: since what six o seven, Like they're just on the
Speaker 1: same page.
Speaker 2: I asked Steve Geim, I said, who's the best run
Speaker 2: franchise in the league. He said Baltimore. He said Baltimore.
Speaker 2: He said the owner is down in Florida, never medals
Speaker 2: and powers his employees. He said Baltimore is.
Speaker 1: They're well funded, so they have unlimited money.
Speaker 3: Yeap.
Speaker 2: Totally supportive of Harbaugh, he said, you know, and Steve,
Speaker 2: you're not going to throw people under the bus. But
Speaker 2: he said, colin this a half of the gms in
Speaker 2: the league are pulling their hair out six times a year.
Speaker 2: You're just dealing with nonsense. And he said Baltimore. He
Speaker 2: listed five or six. But he said Baltimore is as
Speaker 2: well run as any organization. It starts with a very
Speaker 2: competent owner, whose hands off, who spends the money. And
Speaker 2: you know, because if you already think about it, John
Speaker 2: the best business in America. I'll make an argument is
Speaker 2: owning an NFL team.
Speaker 3: I mean, think about that.
Speaker 2: Name another business that gets billions of dollars of free
Speaker 2: advertising a year. Essentially, you're a TV show. Oracle's not
Speaker 2: a TV show. Apple's not a.
Speaker 1: TV Amazon's not. Well, Amazon kind of got into that business.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's like it's guarantee. Also, you don't know
Speaker 2: if there's disruptions in tech and that Apple is late
Speaker 2: on AI and Tim Cook gets fired, they plummet their stock.
Speaker 2: You know, Dallas is going to be in Dallas. The
Speaker 2: Cowboys are going to be in Dallas, and the Rams
Speaker 2: are going to be in Los Angeles, and the Packers
Speaker 2: are going to be in Green Bay. These are owning
Speaker 2: an NFL team. It's the best business. There's thirty two
Speaker 2: in America. Some are the Jags, some are the Steelers.
Speaker 2: But and these owners know it. I mean, they know
Speaker 2: it it is I mean, and they're old school guys.
Speaker 2: And I just pitched the show the other day to AMC,
Speaker 2: A football show with a protagonist being the general manager.
Speaker 2: And it's without going into too much detail, basically it's juggling.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a GM juggling a meddaling owner, a
Speaker 2: high profile coach whose wife's a therapist. The quarterback sort
Speaker 2: of Aaron Rodgers, prickly who's hitting on the coach his
Speaker 2: wife's daughter, you know. And it's as I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: And this thing has Netflix written all over it.
Speaker 2: Well, as I'm doing it and writing these stories, and
Speaker 2: I gave it to a couple of gms, They're like, oh,
Speaker 2: you can take bigger swings.
Speaker 3: It's crazier than this.
Speaker 1: You're not being crazy enough.
Speaker 2: No, they were like, well that's a six. Let me
Speaker 2: tell you a story that's way worse than this. So
Speaker 2: when you watch the draft and you watch what people do,
Speaker 2: this is like any other industry. There's really a lot of.
Speaker 3: Chaos and nonsense and incompetence.
Speaker 1: So, well, look at Ballard, who I think is one
Speaker 1: of the better gms. Is Ballard, Yeah, because we talked
Speaker 1: about his draft, but his owner right now is having
Speaker 1: saying things that I was not under the influence. I
Speaker 1: did not have an overdose. That's what he's dealing with.
Speaker 1: Skuy owns the team. We talked about his first round
Speaker 1: pick a lot too. His second round pick. He went
Speaker 1: on that rant about the character stuff I think it
Speaker 1: was after he drafted Mitchell, the wide receiver from Texas
Speaker 1: rap Sheet came on NFL Network and basically said his
Speaker 1: interviews had been terrible. He sounded disinterested and I don't
Speaker 1: think he's just making that up, and then Ballard got
Speaker 1: kind of pushed back against it. I do think this.
Speaker 1: I would say Chris's team, he probably of all the
Speaker 1: good gms in the league, does not mess with character
Speaker 1: at all for the most part. Like that's not really
Speaker 1: his mo of guys that he's going to invest high
Speaker 1: end right, most of his top highly paid players, guys
Speaker 1: he's traded for guys he signed are just I would
Speaker 1: call like pristine character to Forest Buckner, Quinnin Nelson, Michael Pittman.
Speaker 1: I mean, these are Kenny Moore, super high character guys.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying Mitchell's not, but he did have some
Speaker 1: question marks. Guys with his talent typically aren't there at
Speaker 1: forty five. Now. He was with the Chiefs when they
Speaker 1: took Marcus Peters, like he's been around some of this.
Speaker 1: That worked out. I think for the first time he realized, like,
Speaker 1: if we're really going to compete, because look at Cassarri.
Speaker 1: I would say he's kind of similar. Doesn't really meant
Speaker 1: well this offseason what he did, he went and got
Speaker 1: digs too. We don't even need to debate, like there's
Speaker 1: some issues there. So I think Balar realized, like listen,
Speaker 1: there was a small gap this year. We didn't have
Speaker 1: our starting quarterback. We got to be very careful about
Speaker 1: getting an influx of talent, and they took a guy
Speaker 1: who you know is very, very talented. I mean I
Speaker 1: would say it's immediately.
Speaker 3: Just I liked him more than Worthy.
Speaker 2: I Xavier Worthy hurt a lot at Texas, a lot
Speaker 2: of drops. Now it'll probably work with Mahomes. But I
Speaker 2: said this two weeks ago. He was my bust. He
Speaker 2: was the guy that I worry about because I watched
Speaker 2: him at Texas. I like Mitchell Moore. I thought he
Speaker 2: was more consistently available. He was a better route runner.
Speaker 1: He's bigger, I mean just not that's much slower. I
Speaker 1: mean he's still really fast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the thing about taking swings on guy with
Speaker 2: character issues. So you know mcveigh's got a ring, you
Speaker 2: can be a little more precious on that stuff. But
Speaker 2: in Belichick had several rings. I thought the undoing Bill
Speaker 2: Belichick was on. He told urban Meyer, and urban Meyer
Speaker 2: told the audience.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: He went on TV and said, Bill said, I just
Speaker 2: don't want to I'm going to coach the guys. I
Speaker 2: like New England got really untalented over about a five
Speaker 2: year period. Bill wanted to coach guys. He you got
Speaker 2: to have some badass guys and they're not always choir boys,
Speaker 2: like get over it. Like now, I always think if
Speaker 2: you have strong leadership. Now when Brady leaves, it may
Speaker 2: be different, like you lose that, you'll lose that power leadership.
Speaker 2: But if you have good leadership, which the Patriots during
Speaker 2: Brady always had a gronk a Brady an element of
Speaker 2: defensive guy, you gotta swing. I mean you got to
Speaker 2: take some. So to me, if you like your coach
Speaker 2: and you think Toforest Bruckner, if you got a handful
Speaker 2: Michael Pittman, if your top five or six, Quentin Nelson,
Speaker 2: if if you got six dudes in the room, I
Speaker 2: have no problem taking a swing on guys. And for
Speaker 2: the record, John, there's a term diva receiver, Like it's
Speaker 2: not diva safeany like it's a personality position.
Speaker 3: I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1: You know, Moose Johnson. I butchered this quote the other
Speaker 1: day when I was recording the podcast after Day two.
Speaker 1: I was talking to him on a radio show years ago,
Speaker 1: and he said, all the best teams I was on
Speaker 1: and played against in the nineties were full of players
Speaker 1: of character, a lot of and a couple characters that
Speaker 1: could play. There is no team full of choir boys.
Speaker 1: You got no shot. Now. You can't have too many
Speaker 1: crazy character guys. But sometimes those are your most talented
Speaker 1: You've said this for in any industry has them, actors, music,
Speaker 1: you name it, salesman, I don't care where you go.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the most talented guy in the room is a
Speaker 1: little fucking nuts. And if you can corral that and
Speaker 1: get the most out of them. And Belichick did this
Speaker 1: for a long time. Peyton Manning was able to work
Speaker 1: with it over the years, you got a shot. But
Speaker 1: I yeah, I mean, I think I know Ballard really
Speaker 1: really values that stuff. So clearly they did a lot
Speaker 1: of work. And you know this thing about the draft,
Speaker 1: you kind of got to be prepared for anything. If
Speaker 1: I would have asked them at the beginning of the
Speaker 1: draft on Thursday night, and you think that guy's going
Speaker 1: to be there for you in the second round. He
Speaker 1: would have laughed, he's had no chance. But this is
Speaker 1: why when everyone's like, what positions did you scout? I'm like,
Speaker 1: well you do everyone like you just because you have
Speaker 1: a quarterback, you still you just never know. Things get weird.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think I think the Colts. I actually
Speaker 1: think the Colts, if that quarterback is decent, are going
Speaker 1: to be right there with the Texans. I think they
Speaker 1: got a chance to be pretty good because because the coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that division is now like pretty heady.
Speaker 2: I got Trevor Lawrence. They now with Gabe Davis and
Speaker 2: getting Brian Thomas from LSU. You're like Evan Ingram, it's
Speaker 2: like Christian.
Speaker 3: Kirk etn Yeah, it's like, oh that's that's that's like
Speaker 3: the Bears. That's like real players. And I think Shane
Speaker 3: Steichen's going to elevate everybody. You know, Gardner Minsch is
Speaker 3: going to go to the Raiders and his numbers are
Speaker 3: going to come down significantly. Yeah, you didn't have Shane Steiken.
Speaker 1: And then all of a.
Speaker 2: Sudden, Houston. I think Houston has just done so many
Speaker 2: smart things. That division now is a real division. And
Speaker 2: I think I have the Colts finishing third in that division,
Speaker 2: and I like them, like I like Minnesota, they could
Speaker 2: finish fourth, like I don't like the New York Giants.
Speaker 2: They'll finish fourth. There's a big gap, there's some you
Speaker 2: know what, we are getting to a point and I
Speaker 2: don't ever remember this. There's so much talent in football
Speaker 2: right now and so many good coaches. John They're going
Speaker 2: to be third and fourth place teams.
Speaker 3: I like.
Speaker 2: I could see the Jets finishing if Aaron plays seventeen games,
Speaker 2: I could see them finishing third and winning nine games.
Speaker 2: And I could see Minnesota finishing fourth and winning eight,
Speaker 2: and I like them. It used to be the bottom
Speaker 2: of the league. It was just crappy. It wasn't the
Speaker 2: NBA bad, but it was just bad. It was five
Speaker 2: with teams outside of Carolina and the Giants. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure there's a day Tennessee. It depends on if Will
Speaker 2: Levis can play. But I mean Carolina Giants look hopeless.
Speaker 2: Tennessee kind of. That's about it for me.
Speaker 1: That's why I would say this. I mean the Steelers,
Speaker 1: Brown's probably gonna finish in fourth, and both those two
Speaker 1: teams made the playoffs. Steelers just had a good draft,
Speaker 1: drafted multiple offensive lineman high we know they're you know,
Speaker 1: the Browns I think are going to be worse than
Speaker 1: they were last year with Deshaun Watson. But I'm with you.
Speaker 1: The middle of the league is and this is why
Speaker 1: it's going to be. It's hard to win thirteen fourteen
Speaker 1: games because you're only getting so this is not college
Speaker 1: football where you get you know, Rutgers, and then you
Speaker 1: get you know, some Arizona State, like they do not
Speaker 1: really exist, and if you do, sleep walk on the
Speaker 1: New York Giants and Daniel Jones has the best game
Speaker 1: of the season, all of a sudden, you're down going
Speaker 1: into the fourth quarter. Because college football to me, I
Speaker 1: did a little math between Michigan, Washington, Bama, and Texas
Speaker 1: the final four. Then if you add the other top
Speaker 1: teams Florida State, Georgia, LSU, Oregon, Ohio State, almost fifty
Speaker 1: I think officially forty six of the top one hundred
Speaker 1: draft picks game from those schools. I mean you could
Speaker 1: argue as time goes on that number could even creep higher.
Speaker 1: I guess Nick Saban said on Thursday night when he
Speaker 1: was on TV that the Toledo corner that the Eagles drafted.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, he realized he kind of caught himself.
Speaker 1: Tried to get him to go into the portal so
Speaker 1: then we could sign him, but he wouldn't even go
Speaker 1: into the portal, like they just wanted him to go
Speaker 1: in the portal then they could make an offer and
Speaker 1: get them. But like more and more like that guy
Speaker 1: at Toledo that we might not see that for a while.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be all these top programs, mainly in the
Speaker 1: Big Ten in the SEC, and then Florida State and
Speaker 1: Clemson and Notre Dame, who's kind of an acc team
Speaker 1: and might inevitably be one, have all the talent in
Speaker 1: the draft. I mean that's where all that's where all
Speaker 1: the high end guys are coming from those conferences. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I it's really funny because I Eric Shanks is
Speaker 2: you know, he runs FS one, and I went to
Speaker 2: lunch with him and I said, Eric, the Big Ten's
Speaker 2: gonna start squashing people. I'm like, you know, Lincoln Riley's
Speaker 2: gonna get it going. Oregon just is a machine.
Speaker 3: Nil. They're up there with like Georgia, Ohio State. Nil money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ucla is kind of mailing in their football program.
Speaker 2: I think they're going to go back to heavy basketball.
Speaker 3: That's my guess.
Speaker 2: Where we only need about four million a year in
Speaker 2: IL to really be an elite bat cheaper, you need
Speaker 2: about twelve in football, and UCLA just just just can't
Speaker 2: generate that on an annual basis, or or their donors
Speaker 2: have it but don't want to give it up. But
Speaker 2: I look at college football right now, and this is
Speaker 2: you know, John, We've talked about this big eat, small scale,
Speaker 2: beats boutique in every business. College football has always been
Speaker 2: a bit lobsided. I think we're going into a eight
Speaker 2: programs will basically eat the sport, and I'm okay with
Speaker 2: it because my take is I'm not staying home to
Speaker 2: watch the Holiday Bowl, and I love college football. You
Speaker 2: start looking at the Big ten in the SEC games
Speaker 2: from this point forward, now that you've out of Texas Oklahoma,
Speaker 2: there's no reason really to watch any other conference. I'll
Speaker 2: watch Notre Dame, I won't. I mean, now the Pac
Speaker 2: twelve's gone, there's just no reason to watch the Big
Speaker 2: twelve or the ACC outside of a Clemson.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, like Florida State's going to be Boston
Speaker 1: College by thirty points. It's not even a game.
Speaker 2: So it's like I'm i I'm always looking for ways
Speaker 2: not that make my job easier, but make my job
Speaker 2: more efficient because I have I'm watching I work seventies
Speaker 2: a week during the football season, which is fine. I
Speaker 2: get paid well. But it's like, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: be watching Big ten SEC football. That's all I'm wanna watch.
Speaker 2: Thank thank god the PAC twelve disbanded. Like I'm not
Speaker 2: Big twelve acc or off the TV.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna watch it.
Speaker 1: I'm in agreement because it's you know, people have always
Speaker 1: pushed back. These conferences are overrated, these conferences. No, that's
Speaker 1: where all the talent is. That's where all the NFL
Speaker 1: people spend their time, and they do it for a reason.
Speaker 2: All right, before we go one, I'm gonna ask you.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you mine and then think of yours.
Speaker 2: Why I'm saying it. So sometimes you know, I'm in
Speaker 2: the take business. Podcast business is a little less like
Speaker 2: that because we have conversations that last an hour. But
Speaker 2: I was thinking about it this weekend. I thought that
Speaker 2: James Harden to the Clippers was a disaster, and I'm
Speaker 2: watching that game today and I'm like, shit, that thing
Speaker 2: is working. I don't remember the last time I had
Speaker 2: an NBA take that was so bad. I thought Westbrook
Speaker 2: Kawhi's weird, Paul George's excellent, Tylu can deal with dysfunction.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, this is like an old rock band
Speaker 2: where they all had issues and you're trying to work
Speaker 2: them to get along with each other.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this isn't good. It's gonna be terrible.
Speaker 2: And I watched them today and I'm like, they get
Speaker 2: a good shot every time down the floor?
Speaker 3: What in the world.
Speaker 2: And Lawrence Frank was at a club I go to occasionally,
Speaker 2: a private club in LA and he was sitting having
Speaker 2: dinner one night and I sat up next to him,
Speaker 2: like Lawrence Frank. We talked for an hour about it,
Speaker 2: and I said, God, I thought it was gonna be
Speaker 2: a mess. And he said, you know, Harden bought into it.
Speaker 2: Harden just said, I'm wanna win. I got three hundred
Speaker 2: million dollars in the bank. I want to win some games.
Speaker 2: And so I'm watching today and I'm like, God, was
Speaker 2: I wrong on that thing? Give me your sports take
Speaker 2: when you look back and think and mine may be
Speaker 2: Kirk Cousins, but with James Harden in the last year
Speaker 2: or two, if you had a huge whiff.
Speaker 1: I thought that the Russell Wilson trade from Seattle would
Speaker 1: go down as the worst trade in like one of
Speaker 1: the history of the leagues for the Seattle Seahawks, because
Speaker 1: there's no way you could trade a player of that
Speaker 1: caliber what he meant for your franchise and how good
Speaker 1: he would be for them. And it actually went the
Speaker 1: polar opposite way. Like Deshaun Watson. It was clear, like
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would be doing this. It
Speaker 1: was that was weird. Aaron Rodgers was old and it
Speaker 1: had gotten weird. But the Russell thing, right, he's thirty
Speaker 1: two to thirty three years old, Like I get it
Speaker 1: was weird, but he's going to go to Denver and
Speaker 1: this was before Sean Payton and he didn't even last
Speaker 1: two years. I mean he was benched before the second
Speaker 1: year ended. And it is easily on Denver side. I mean,
Speaker 1: I thought, in a weird way it kind of ended
Speaker 1: Pete the It wasn't because of the trade. It was
Speaker 1: just they kind of petered out and you saw But
Speaker 1: it is you could argue from now, I would say
Speaker 1: the Browns are in the mix, but it's got to
Speaker 1: be in my lifetime when you factor in the dead money,
Speaker 1: all the picks you gave up, the situation it created
Speaker 1: for Sean Payton, I mean, one of the worst trades
Speaker 1: any sport ever ever. And it's you know, the Aeron
Speaker 1: thing when he got old. So all these you Deshaun
Speaker 1: Watson a bunch of weird shit off the Russell thing,
Speaker 1: and you've talked never seen because even James Harden I
Speaker 1: went to a Warrior game in his heyday with the Rockets.
Speaker 1: I remember in like game one, he scored thirty five.
Speaker 1: Like he's he can have these moments. He's had a
Speaker 1: lot of bad moments, but no one's ever disputed like
Speaker 1: his talent and his ability. He just doesn't give a
Speaker 1: shit on defense, and he kind of loafed sometimes when
Speaker 1: he's not feeling it, but when he tries, like he
Speaker 1: has a high end player. Russell just went from like
Speaker 1: James Harden, high end player to just average to not
Speaker 1: any good. It's crazy with no injury, With no injury
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in athletics. I mean, it doesn't happen
Speaker 1: in sports.
Speaker 3: No, I was the same way.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Pete, you've been fired two times before this
Speaker 2: in the NFL. You were seven and nine, seven and
Speaker 2: nine before Russ.
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: And Pete was having some issues behind the scenes that
Speaker 2: I've had validated. He and John Snyder were really at
Speaker 2: the end where people don't know. You know, John Snyder
Speaker 2: had Pete's son on the scouting staff and you know,
Speaker 2: went to Pete and said, we're we're gonna move off him.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: The next day, Pete puts him on his coaching staff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was kind of a facial But like Steve, like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure Steve told you yesterday, that's happening all over
Speaker 1: the league, the head coach and the GM's buttonheads about
Speaker 1: stupid shit, you know, not even big picture stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Seattle had some of that stuff going on
Speaker 2: behind the scenes. But yeah, in my lifetime, I thought,
Speaker 2: I don't I've never seen a player in their early
Speaker 2: thirties who I thought was elite. I mean, Jesus Russell's
Speaker 2: passer ratings were over one hundred four years in a row.
Speaker 2: Now you can say, well, the passer rating is a
Speaker 2: little overvalued, but overall, if he just watched him.
Speaker 1: He was good, yeah, and then he was terrible awful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's but it's one of the things.
Speaker 2: This weekend, to me is the best weekend of the year,
Speaker 2: not counting the NFL season. Now, you you may throw
Speaker 2: in the Masters because you love golf more than I do.
Speaker 2: I like it, But I this weekend, I watched I
Speaker 2: watched Draft the whole damn weekend. I watched you know,
Speaker 2: I watched the Nick Sixers. Uh, you know, I watched
Speaker 2: the Lakers now gets a little bit the second half,
Speaker 2: but I had I had a ball.
Speaker 1: Are the Sixers one of the greatest failed experiments in
Speaker 1: the history of sports? I mean they tank forever and
Speaker 1: they get and now they're I mean they're gonna lose
Speaker 1: this series. He's not coming back.
Speaker 2: Somebody said this on the internet, and I thought it
Speaker 2: was really accurate. Embiid maybe seven to two. He plays
Speaker 2: six ' four a lot threes, NonStop, nonsinse, He's screwing
Speaker 2: around at the top with a ball. He gets beat
Speaker 2: rebounding regularly late in games.
Speaker 3: Is that, Embiid?
Speaker 2: You can't convince me you're a great player if in
Speaker 2: the weak Eastern Conference you can't win the second playoff
Speaker 2: series if you watch the Nick Sixers, there's no question
Speaker 2: Brunson's the better star.
Speaker 3: That's not even dispute.
Speaker 2: Now, he takes a lot of shots, but there's no
Speaker 2: question nobody on that team presents him like everybody's in
Speaker 2: on Brunson. You kind of feel with a sixer sometimes
Speaker 2: that if you could privately talk to the players, Maxi
Speaker 2: and Harris, some of these guys, they'd roll their eyes
Speaker 2: at him. He plays for his size small, Brunson for
Speaker 2: his size, plays big. And I just come out of
Speaker 2: this and I'm like, embiid, I know you hated Jokic
Speaker 2: and you gave him the MVP, and that's always been
Speaker 2: a story award more than the truth. Westbrook won an MVP,
Speaker 2: But we have to file what embiid under. He's been
Speaker 2: a media darling more than he's been great.
Speaker 1: And in another life, Tom Phibodeau is not coaching basketball.
Speaker 1: He's an NFL coach. Probably started as no line guys.
Speaker 1: That's the vibe I get from Tom Thibodeaux because the
Speaker 1: Knicks when I was a kid, they played just like this, ugly.
Speaker 1: They just it felt like at any moment a brawl
Speaker 1: could break out. It's enjoyable and clearly their fans like it.
Speaker 1: I saw Embiid was said after the game, like it
Speaker 1: was half Knicks fans in there.
Speaker 3: Well they're only ninety minutes apart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's far, it's easy, dry, and the Knicks fans
Speaker 2: have been starved. I've said this before when I lived
Speaker 2: on the East Coast, and I really did. I really
Speaker 2: love the people in the East Coast. Now the winners
Speaker 2: aren't great, but you know, as you get older, I'm
Speaker 2: I can wear a coat like I can get older.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love the people. I always said this. People
Speaker 3: always said.
Speaker 2: New York was a baseball town, and I'm like Yankee
Speaker 2: Stadium was empty in the eighties. The Knicks have been
Speaker 2: a mess for most of the last twenty years. You
Speaker 2: can't get a tickets to a Knicks game. There's two
Speaker 2: baseball teams, right, There's two NFL team, there's one NBA team.
Speaker 2: And when I was there, everybody I knew love the Knicks.
Speaker 2: Half the town didn't like the Giants with their Super Bowls.
Speaker 2: Half the town was a Mets fan. So it's New
Speaker 2: York is. It's one of those things where you just
Speaker 2: forget people did this with the Warriors. You forget what
Speaker 2: a great basketball city.
Speaker 1: It is like when I grow up.
Speaker 3: In the seventies, Golden State won a.
Speaker 2: Title with Rick Berry, Al Addams, Clifford, Ray Mullins, Jeff Mullins,
Speaker 2: I think Jamal Wilkes, and they were really good for
Speaker 2: a stretch. The seventies was weird. Everybody won like one title,
Speaker 2: the Bullets with Elvin Hayes, the Sonics with DJ Gus,
Speaker 2: William Jackson, everybody won one.
Speaker 1: The Sixers with doctor Jakin, Washington wins title.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kevin Grevy, Elvin Hayes, West Unseld, Bobby Danders. I
Speaker 2: think Bobby Danders was on that team. That was. That
Speaker 2: was my indoctrination to sports. I was a huge NBA guy.
Speaker 2: I collecked at NBA cards in the seventies and the Knicks,
Speaker 2: by the way, won and I think seventy one or
Speaker 2: seventy two, Lakers May one in seventy two, Nicks one
Speaker 2: in seventy one, could be wrong. I'm in the ballpark,
Speaker 2: Fraser Monroe, Willis Reid, that stuff. But one of the
Speaker 2: things that you forget, and you forgot it about the Warriors.
Speaker 2: It was always a great NBA city, always a great
Speaker 2: NBA city, just had either bad ownership or bad team
Speaker 2: for thirty years.
Speaker 1: New York.
Speaker 2: I think it's a basketball city. I think it's just
Speaker 2: I think there are no shows all over that town.
Speaker 2: When teams go sideways. The Knicks have been embarrassing, feudal.
Speaker 2: Some would argue, you know, Dolan now feels like he
Speaker 2: got he has Leon Wood, He's kind of got, He's
Speaker 2: stepped back, he trusts, he trusts his ownership. So James
Speaker 2: Dolan now is like he's like a normal owner. But
Speaker 2: when I watch those Nick games, the league has all
Speaker 2: these small teams, all these okcs and Indianas that are
Speaker 2: fascinating right now. They need the Knicks, like the NBA
Speaker 2: needs the Knicks.
Speaker 1: Can I give you a guy that I don't think
Speaker 1: they need? And I had the game on the other day.
Speaker 1: I looked up and it was sad. Is the Kevin
Speaker 1: Durant experience is just an all time these last four
Speaker 1: or five, I mean, the gutlass performance. They got destroyed
Speaker 1: and it feels he's kind of gone full mercenary and
Speaker 1: just kind of goes from team to team and you're
Speaker 1: just there's no emotion, like Ron's clearly not the same,
Speaker 1: but you see him trying Korean. Those guys go out swinging.
Speaker 1: You just watch Kevin Durant, You're like, what is this?
Speaker 1: It's pretty sad for a guy at one point in
Speaker 1: time looked like I remember going to games thinking it's
Speaker 1: like one of the best players I've ever seen. And
Speaker 1: it's not like he's forty two years old. I know
Speaker 1: he's a little older now, but it's it's a tough watch.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was pretty embarrassing, no question.
Speaker 2: I was talking to somebody in my field recently and
Speaker 2: they were talking about somebody who it's a media person
Speaker 2: that is struggling, and I said, weird doesn't work. Eventually,
Speaker 2: Weird doesn't work. People don't like to be around them.
Speaker 2: They're unpredictable. You know, Aaron Rodgers has gotten a little weird.
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant's gotten a little weird. Kawhi Leonard a little
Speaker 2: odd now.
Speaker 1: You know when I say weird, I say this for Rogers.
Speaker 1: He was winning MVPs a couple of years ago. At
Speaker 1: least he produced later in his career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Aaron's gotten old, single, rich, no kids, no pets.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, mate, It's.
Speaker 1: Like seven houses all over the place flying around. Yeah, podcasters.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't you know, Kevin and Aaron Rodgers have
Speaker 2: always been sort of again rich, no wife, no kids,
Speaker 2: no pets, spend too much time rabbit ears on the internet,
Speaker 2: and they're both gifted. But those people are hard to
Speaker 2: build around because you don't like mystery is great for
Speaker 2: books and movies, it's not great for sports teams. Like Brady,
Speaker 2: you knew exactly what you got Kobe, actually, you know
Speaker 2: Kobe from people that knew him, like he was just
Speaker 2: a creature of having he ate the same thing every
Speaker 2: night of the season, fresh salmon, like every night of
Speaker 2: the season, small glass. I was like, it was just bizarre.
Speaker 2: He was like this, and it's like, but you know
Speaker 2: what you get with Kobe. You get some ego, you
Speaker 2: get some shots. I think Kevin is kind of just
Speaker 2: I think mercenary is the right language, the right word.
Speaker 2: He's just he just wants to shoot, score and do
Speaker 2: other things.
Speaker 3: And it's like it's hard to build around that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, he kind of represents, you know, with Lebron,
Speaker 1: I bet the Laker's probably losing five. Obviously, Curry's gone.
Speaker 1: He just feels like those guys, if you just ask
Speaker 1: someone casually about Lebron or Curry. You can have a
Speaker 1: long conversation. I feel like Kevin duranfu like, yeah, they
Speaker 1: don't even care. He just kind of lost everybody. It's like, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's become, frankly, kind of an irrelevant NBA.
Speaker 1: He really has, he really has.
Speaker 2: He had the best owner arguably in the league, the
Speaker 2: best coach, and the best teammate lakeb Kerr and Curry,
Speaker 2: and he left for Kyrie Irving. And I said, the
Speaker 2: NBA media supports more than reports. If Mahomes left for
Speaker 2: the Jets, he said, well, I have a slot receiver.
Speaker 2: I love him, I'm going to the Jets. He'd be like,
Speaker 2: the fuck are you doing? He would get crushed doing
Speaker 2: in the NBA. Kevin leaves the penthouse and goes to
Speaker 2: a fixer upper and everybody is like, well, he's a
Speaker 2: unique spirit.
Speaker 3: That's a bad business decision.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's and it hasn't worked out, not even close.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: If I left Fox and went to Vice or something
Speaker 3: like that, that's a bad business. Don't do that.
Speaker 2: So I think I think Kevin got a little bit
Speaker 2: of a pass because you know, the NBA is, you know, creative,
Speaker 2: and these are you know, like international soccer guys, there's
Speaker 2: egos that are highly compensated there artists.
Speaker 3: It is a terrible decision. That's get over it. Deal
Speaker 3: with Draymond, get therapy, get over it. I'm with you
Speaker 3: all right, John as oas great chatting and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Well, have a good week. See it the volume.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
Speaker 2: take a moment rate and review