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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear. Listening to podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear

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Speaker 1: for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. All right, everybody,

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Speaker 1: we got a ton to cover today. Papa Yanni's in town.

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Speaker 1: Jannice is dadd Yannese is in town, and uh, how

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Speaker 1: are you doing over there? What are you doing in town?

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Speaker 1: Why are you in town? I came to visit my

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Speaker 1: grandkids and my son daughter in law, kind of check

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Speaker 1: out things. I'm getting ready to move here, hopefully within

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Speaker 1: the year. Yeah, I'm trying to sell my house. I

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Speaker 1: told Katie that the house will be up for sale,

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Speaker 1: so you guys, if you want to move back to

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Speaker 1: Michigan places. She liked the house, and she told me

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Speaker 1: about a lot of times that she was there that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there. Do you wind up oh like partying

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Speaker 1: over there? That you can't have the same house now

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Speaker 1: that my wife used to party and that as a

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Speaker 1: high schooler, I think so, yeah, more than what actually

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Speaker 1: two houses? Why? Because I mean, I think it was

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Speaker 1: more at his other house, his house prior to that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but she was telling me about being out on the

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Speaker 1: pond with you in the paddle boat we used to fish.

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Speaker 1: He lives on like a I don't know, ten acre, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got a good large amouth bass fishing. So you

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Speaker 1: knew Steve's wife in high school. That's why I'm here today. Uh,

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Speaker 1: like if you had when So when you're hanging around

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Speaker 1: Johannest and his lovely children, right, are you all the

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Speaker 1: time kind of like like biting your tongue because you

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Speaker 1: don't like the job he's doing, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: do it different or do you kind of like how

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Speaker 1: his whole families grew. He's going to go into the

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Speaker 1: spield to congratulate you guys on ten years. That's a

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Speaker 1: big deal in business. Oh yeah, But I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about his job as I think he's doing a

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Speaker 1: great job. So when you're over there, you're digging what

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Speaker 1: you're seeing in terms of how he's running the whole

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Speaker 1: program with the family and everything. Oh with the family,

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Speaker 1: I thought you were talking about meat eater. No, the family, Oh, absolutely, absolutely?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think uh I even get some tips

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Speaker 1: from him on like, you know, don't leave the male

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Speaker 1: thing out of it. So you do you feel that

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Speaker 1: he is uh doing better than you did? Oh hundred

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Speaker 1: some really? Oh yeah, because is red right now. He's

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Speaker 1: literally turning red. He's gotten bared, he got embarrassed twice already.

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Speaker 1: But the reality is, when you're going through divorce, it's

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Speaker 1: really tough on the kids, and it's it's equally as

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Speaker 1: tough on the parents because you know, you're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out, like, Okay, where am I going to fit in?

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Speaker 1: How am I gonna make this work? And so we

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Speaker 1: each have our own sort of approach and guess what,

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Speaker 1: you get that approach from our parents, Right, So some

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Speaker 1: of the things that I picked up from my parents,

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Speaker 1: or specifically one of my father we're not the way

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Speaker 1: to raise kits. And so you go through this journey

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Speaker 1: of learning, hey man, don't do that. That's stupid. That's

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Speaker 1: bad for you, it's bad for the kid. And eventually

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Speaker 1: you get to a point where you go, hey, I

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Speaker 1: think I got part of this figured out. So I

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Speaker 1: would say all of my children are light years ahead

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Speaker 1: of where I was as an adult trying to raise kids. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So the world's not going to ship. Oh no, not

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Speaker 1: at all. And the other thing he's has the best

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Speaker 1: news I've heard all week. I mean, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not just about raising the kid, it's what the

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Speaker 1: child is exposed to write that environment, and that the

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Speaker 1: child knows that you care about them, you know, like

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Speaker 1: giving them limitations. You can do this. I want you

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Speaker 1: to be adventurous. I want you to explore, but you know,

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Speaker 1: here's the limit. You can't go beyond that. That's really important.

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Speaker 1: I can't let your brother on fire now that you

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Speaker 1: can try. So what I see them doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: not just your honest but Jennifer there, they make a

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Speaker 1: really good team. And you know, I would assume that

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Speaker 1: if I went to your house that I would probably

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Speaker 1: see the same thing, just your own version of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, your adaptation of how that works. That's good here. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean you should be lapping us up, Yanni. You

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Speaker 1: look like you're not You're not. This is not many

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Speaker 1: guys ever get praised by their father in front of them.

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Speaker 1: You think most people your dad's job is to take

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Speaker 1: you down and take down that's what he does. Now

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Speaker 1: he takes his own Manda joined also by nif Cole,

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Speaker 1: Dave Wilms. We met because you guys used to be

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Speaker 1: whatever the hell this means advisors two former Governor Matt

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Speaker 1: Mead of Wyoming. That's right, was very well light. So

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Speaker 1: they must have done a good job. It's the best

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Speaker 1: politician in the history of America. But he threw in

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Speaker 1: the towel, and he threw in the towel and doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to run for president. No, he crushed it for

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Speaker 1: eight years and then deservedly did what every good politician

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Speaker 1: should do, which is he he said, I've I've I've served.

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Speaker 1: He did my job, and now he is lifting weights

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Speaker 1: at Gold's gym right now. Probably why while we speak.

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Speaker 1: He's he's much thinner, he's tanner, he's buff again, he's

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Speaker 1: playing a lot of golf. None of those banquet meals.

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Speaker 1: Every time I think he should, I think he should

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Speaker 1: do like a if. There's probably a lot of strikes

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Speaker 1: you get and I don't know, because Cheney was from Wyoming.

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Speaker 1: You can be from Wyoming and play on the play

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Speaker 1: on the main stage. Actually Wyoming. This is like we're

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Speaker 1: gonna go down rap hole. But there you get actually

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Speaker 1: a lot of uh outsize political clout when you're from Wyoming,

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Speaker 1: because because there's some interesting stuff that we've done. First

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Speaker 1: of all, we keep the population very low, so we

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Speaker 1: have two senators and five thousand people, so your ratio

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Speaker 1: of senators to people in Wyoming is better than it

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Speaker 1: is in any other state. And the math one time

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Speaker 1: and figured out voting rates, So like Wyoming's population, how

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Speaker 1: many what percentage of that population is voting age, what

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Speaker 1: percent actually votes? Basically like six dudes can send you

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Speaker 1: to the governor's mansion. That's about right, and the third

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Speaker 1: of the populace is right here and U Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: if you don't get elected, you still get to be

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Speaker 1: a policy advisor. That's how it works. That's great. So

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Speaker 1: that's nice, But now you don't do that anymore. So now,

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Speaker 1: nif I you've been on the show too or three times?

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Speaker 1: Two times? Dave and I have both been on here

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Speaker 1: together twice, but the first time, um, Dave just listened

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Speaker 1: to a football game on his iPhone the entire time.

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Speaker 1: But well, in my defense, no, I don't have a defense.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think I was actually kind of following

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Speaker 1: a Broncos game at the time. You sports fan, I

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Speaker 1: am a big sportsman, but also like Governor Mead was

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Speaker 1: your guest and we were on there as well, and

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Speaker 1: he was so good at everything. I just sat back,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna need to say anything on this podcast

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Speaker 1: because this guy, like he knows his stuff, he knows everything. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and so I can just follow a football game. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty fun. We picked you up at the

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Speaker 1: airport in Denver and we record at like some kind

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Speaker 1: of sports stadium. Now we went that was different time

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Speaker 1: we went to We went to p F Chains for

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Speaker 1: lunch and uh, and then we with with Rourking some

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Speaker 1: guys from Magpole and the Magpool guys came down. We

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Speaker 1: all had lunch together and we drove down to the

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Speaker 1: Governor's mansion and rolled in there and sat down the

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Speaker 1: giant circle and ye fight or something because I know

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Speaker 1: because you were hunting afterwards. You were going anilop hunting.

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Speaker 1: That's what it was. You were going anilop hunting up

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Speaker 1: in Wyoming. You flew in for the animal punt. Janice

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Speaker 1: drove a pickup in with all the stuff in it,

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Speaker 1: and then you guys met at the Governor's mansion and

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Speaker 1: then he picked you up and you guys drove up

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Speaker 1: to Casper, where I'm pretty sure you stayed at the

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Speaker 1: I don't remember he stayed. I'm a little disturbed, Steel Trap,

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Speaker 1: like they haven't impressed. I mean I remember this, stay

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Speaker 1: right kidding? I mean I remember the stadium right, because

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Speaker 1: you came a second time for Stage Grouse Hunt, and

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Speaker 1: we were, in fact, the second podcast to do with you.

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Speaker 1: You were like, we kicked on the lie to the

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Speaker 1: football stadium because we want to make a pitch where

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Speaker 1: people should go, because you always talked about going to

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Speaker 1: the University of Montana, and so we're like, well, let's

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Speaker 1: take him to the football stadiums. We went to the

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Speaker 1: Wildcat or suite, turned on all the lights. While we're

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Speaker 1: sitting in that suite open, They've filled the fridge full

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Speaker 1: of adult beverages and whatnot. And Josh Allen was actually

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Speaker 1: under the lights out on the field throwing passes to

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Speaker 1: some of his uh to some of his teammates. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I wasn't the same guy for everybody

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Speaker 1: who I still don't quarterback in Buffalo Backs. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: So now he's like really good, well yeah, but we

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Speaker 1: were sitting up there talking about stage ground. I think

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Speaker 1: do you think that he had all that success because

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Speaker 1: of the podcast that night. I'm sure it was piped

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Speaker 1: through the stadium speakers. He's like, now there are some

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Speaker 1: boys to take their job seriously. That's right. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take a dial out of that, poky uh nify. Now

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Speaker 1: is the n s s F Director of Government Relations,

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Speaker 1: State Affairs and ss of being National Shooting Sports Foundation.

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Speaker 1: What states? I cover the Rocky Mountains and the Upper Midwest,

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Speaker 1: so um, you know it's not the I love those states.

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Speaker 1: And then I do all the interactions with governor's offices

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Speaker 1: and then so I go to Republican governors and Western

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Speaker 1: governors and all that. And then I do also association

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Speaker 1: fish and wildlife agencies, so all the interaction with like

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Speaker 1: the uh you know, conservation partners at those things, all

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Speaker 1: the you know, the directors of game and fish agencies.

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Speaker 1: Those are my people too. So I'll go to all

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Speaker 1: those meetings and I interact with those guys on behalf

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Speaker 1: of awesome. NSSF is the Firearms Trade Association of America.

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Speaker 1: So for people that don't know, UM, we represent the

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Speaker 1: nine thousand manufacturers and retailers of firearms, ammunitions, optics, UM,

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Speaker 1: A lot of clothing manufacturers in the outdoor space. So

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Speaker 1: some of our members. A lot of your sponsors are

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Speaker 1: members people like weather be Bench, made Um, Vortax, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: UM conservation groups like uh Rocky Mountain, Elk Foundation, Mule

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Speaker 1: Deer Foundation. So those are members. Just nine thousand different

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Speaker 1: entities that are members. It's not people. We represent entities

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Speaker 1: like corporate entities, nonprofits. So do you when you say

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Speaker 1: Republican governors, do you just not even getting to foot

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Speaker 1: in the door with the Democratic No, we go to

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Governors associations. Well, yeah, absolutely, and you'll get

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Speaker 1: a one on one meeting or now absolutely, We've had

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Speaker 1: some great conversations with there's a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: there's great So this is again going down the rabbit hole.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can classify good or bad politicians

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Speaker 1: based on party. I think you have to really look

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Speaker 1: at the individual and see if those individuals are looking

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Speaker 1: at facts, if they're trying to find things out. In general,

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Speaker 1: I think that human beings are smart and if people

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Speaker 1: are objectively looking at facts, are going to come to

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Speaker 1: They're gonna make good decisions. And I don't they don't

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Speaker 1: just instinctively slam the door in your face. That they

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Speaker 1: don't want to hear about it. No, I mean, I'd

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Speaker 1: be lying if I said it wasn't more difficult in

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Speaker 1: some offices than others. Because you know, if you know

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Speaker 1: Dave and I like, you know, you've you've got a

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Speaker 1: whole group of people. Sometimes you have to trudge through

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Speaker 1: to be able to talk to the guy who's in charge.

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Speaker 1: And with that comes a lot of opinions, It comes

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Speaker 1: a lot of you know, comes a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: history and life history and background thoughts and levels of

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Speaker 1: experience and levels of education. And so when you're working

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Speaker 1: with um you know, political figures, and this goes for

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Speaker 1: everybody listening. You have to be cognizant of that, and

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Speaker 1: you have to be respectful of that. If you're trying

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Speaker 1: to talk to a guy and convince him of something,

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Speaker 1: you've got to try and understand where he's coming from

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Speaker 1: before you throw your idea out there on the table

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Speaker 1: and demand that he believe as you believe. You have

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Speaker 1: to work your way into that. And and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky that I work for an organization where I

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Speaker 1: think we are doing the right things, and so it

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Speaker 1: makes it very easy for me to be able to

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Speaker 1: you know, walk through what I believe to be truth

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Speaker 1: and what I believe to be facts, and then to

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Speaker 1: walk people into what I think is, you know, the

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Speaker 1: the right decision based on truth and facts. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's you know, I mean, that's why I feel

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Speaker 1: lucky to work where I work. Working for Governor Mead

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Speaker 1: was the same way. When you work for a politician

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Speaker 1: who you believe in and you believe he's doing all

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Speaker 1: those things for the right reason, it makes it very

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Speaker 1: easy to go to work every day and to feel

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Speaker 1: good about yourself at the end of the day when you,

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Speaker 1: you know, turn off the computer. Can you give us

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Speaker 1: an example of like something an idea you might pitch

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Speaker 1: when you go into these offices. Um, yeah, let's see,

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Speaker 1: there's tons of them. Uh. Constitutional right to hunt and

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Speaker 1: fish in Utah. So Casey Snyder. We visited with Representative

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Speaker 1: Snyder when he just got into the legislature. And so

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Speaker 1: that's one of the legislatures that I work. And so

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Speaker 1: when I say I work legislatures, I means, you know,

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Speaker 1: from January till April, I'm traveling around all these different

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Speaker 1: states and I'm meeting with lawmakers constantly to talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, things that we believe our priorities. Every legislature

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Speaker 1: and the country is going to have, you know, five

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Speaker 1: hundred plus bills every year or someone who's gonna be

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Speaker 1: trying to change some piece of law. And so my

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Speaker 1: job is to try and look through those and make

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Speaker 1: sure that I'm catching if there's something that's negatively affecting

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Speaker 1: hunting and shooting, sports, wildlife issues and things like that.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and you know, analyze every one of

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Speaker 1: those things, try and figure out whether or not, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we we have a position as an organization that

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Speaker 1: we can take um if we don't, if we can

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Speaker 1: make one and then we share with you know, to

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Speaker 1: go back and educate those lawmakers as as best as

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Speaker 1: possible on what we think the facts are and why

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Speaker 1: we think that. You know, I think people should vote

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Speaker 1: a certain ways. So, for example, the right to hunt

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Speaker 1: and fish in Utah Representative Snyder, we visited with him

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Speaker 1: about it. Um. He believed it was important. The debate

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Speaker 1: on both sides that will be some people will say, well,

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Speaker 1: you don't really need to, you know, have a constitutional

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Speaker 1: right to hunt fish in the state constitution. Who would

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Speaker 1: take away the right to hunt and fish and so

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Speaker 1: then we would respond to that. I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: visit with that lawmaker and say, well, look, you know

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Speaker 1: in California they've already outlawed bear hunting. There's places, you know,

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Speaker 1: in in Nebraska they tried to outlaw you know, this

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Speaker 1: is what I worked on. Also, they tried to outlaw

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Speaker 1: hunting cougars um. They've you know, in every state you

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Speaker 1: get these different rules, rags, laws that come up. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm talking with him about this and say, this

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Speaker 1: is why you need to have the state have a

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Speaker 1: uh a constitutional right that says no, we believe, even

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Speaker 1: in hunting and fishing as regulated by our game and

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Speaker 1: phish agencies, that that's an individual right that should be

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Speaker 1: protected under the state constitution. Because if you don't, it's

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Speaker 1: it's not fake that people will come in and they

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Speaker 1: will use they'll chip away at that individually. They'll find

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Speaker 1: excuses for why you shouldn't be able to trap with

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Speaker 1: this kind of trap in this area, and you know

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Speaker 1: they'll they'll whittle away at that. And that's not I'm

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Speaker 1: not making that up. That's happening today. And so what

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Speaker 1: we do is we try and convince those lawmakers to

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Speaker 1: pass legislation or to defeat legislation that would you know us,

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Speaker 1: you know, take those things away. And so that's what

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Speaker 1: I do for a living, is lobbyists and naughty word

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Speaker 1: and your crew. No, not really, No, I'm so I'm

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Speaker 1: of because people love to hate lobbyists, but they don't

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Speaker 1: realize that, you know, and I'm a I'm a registered

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Speaker 1: lobbyists in a couple of different states, I'm not you know,

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Speaker 1: but you don't, you know, depending on the laws of

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Speaker 1: each state, it's totally different. I mean, it's such a

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Speaker 1: you know, you throw that word out there. It means

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Speaker 1: different things in different states based on different you know,

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Speaker 1: legislative priorities and different rules and rags. Again. And so

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Speaker 1: in some states, I have little teams of guys that

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Speaker 1: I work with, UM that have some fantastic people that

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Speaker 1: I work with that that you know, I won't mention

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Speaker 1: their names. But in Colorado, in places like that where

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Speaker 1: they have those existing relationships, so you might have individuals

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Speaker 1: that are super passionate about wildlife and sportsman's issues in Colorado, UM.

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Speaker 1: And some of those guys are Democrats, some of those

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Speaker 1: guys are Republicans, and depending on who's in office, you

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Speaker 1: need to know those people because you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to get through the door to talk to that

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Speaker 1: decision maker. And if you have put yourself in the

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Speaker 1: position of alienating all the people that you need to

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Speaker 1: work with when something big comes up, you're not going

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Speaker 1: to be effective. And so for us, that's why we,

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Speaker 1: you know, we need to make sure that we nurture

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Speaker 1: relationships and we care about people regardless of political party

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Speaker 1: and all those different states where we work because firearms issues,

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Speaker 1: sportsman's issue, they're not Republicans or Democrats. They are you know,

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Speaker 1: these issues, these things we care about, these things that

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Speaker 1: are important, they're a political and so if you allow

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Speaker 1: yourself to be just lost in this you know, idea

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Speaker 1: that everything has to be associated with an R or

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Speaker 1: a D next to it, that's real tough position to

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Speaker 1: be in because you know, ultimately then you put yourself

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Speaker 1: at the whim of whoever you know you made enemies with.

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Speaker 1: It's impect you want to like, periodically you're gonna get

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Speaker 1: locked out of certain states for eight years or twelve years,

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Speaker 1: and it makes no sense perpetually. Perhaps, yeah, because as

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's I don't know, you probably know this. Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan's Michaels. I watched the last dance, well Michael Jordan's,

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Speaker 1: you know, and everybody said they wanted him to respond

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Speaker 1: on something. He said, Hey, Republicans buy sneakers to that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's a there's a lot to that.

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Speaker 1: You know that. You know what that applies to hunting

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Speaker 1: in the shooting sports. It's like these things they are

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Speaker 1: they cross political divides. Uh. Dave Wilms now National Wildlife

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Speaker 1: Federation Senior Director of Western Wildlife. That's a big title,

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Speaker 1: and acting VP of Public Lands. Yeah, yep, yes, so

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Speaker 1: something just yeah, give us a sports scores and then

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Speaker 1: tell us a little b about what that means. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: um so when I left governor means offside join the

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Speaker 1: National Wildlife Federation. Uh. And I think the easiest way

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Speaker 1: to describe it for folks that aren't familiar with the

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Speaker 1: National Wilife Federation is you heard a Ranger Ricky. That's us, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's our flagship publication. So the National Wildlife Federation

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Speaker 1: was Ranger rick still out. Oh yeah, can you get

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Speaker 1: my kids a subscription? You can? I can? I can.

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Speaker 1: I always got Ranger rick as a kid. I thought

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Speaker 1: Ranger Rick was dead, not a ranger. Rick is alive

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Speaker 1: and well doing doing great. Oh yeah yeah, uh still

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Speaker 1: still our flagship publication. We also have a couple of

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Speaker 1: other publications out there. Really you can still get man,

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Speaker 1: because my kids right now are getting the Week for Kids.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that. No, no, go get Ranger Rick. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now we'll talk after. I was a big boys life guy?

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Speaker 1: Did you did you get boys life? I don't know

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Speaker 1: boys life? Boy scouts? Wasn't a boy scouting? Oh yeah?

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Speaker 1: Are you were? You? Were you an eagle scout clad?

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Speaker 1: Hold up, now we got a topic. Yeah, because we

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Speaker 1: got were a lot of we got a lot of right, right,

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Speaker 1: so this is still those interductions. Right. So National Wildife Federation,

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Speaker 1: Ranger Rick. National Wildife Federation was founded, uh back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six. Right, So nineteen thirty six, President Roosevelt

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Speaker 1: in risk you know, not Teddy obviously, but uh D

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Speaker 1: r Yeah, in response to a bunch of conservations from

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Speaker 1: all over the country, UH convened this conference that still

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Speaker 1: goes on today at the North American Wildlife Conference, which

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Speaker 1: has held every March every year. UH convene this big

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Speaker 1: conference brought everybody to get there, to have a big

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Speaker 1: conversation about like the idea was there are there are

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Speaker 1: hundreds of these sports and organizations, conservation organizations working on

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Speaker 1: the local level, doing a lot of great things, but

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Speaker 1: there was nothing bringing them all together to advance federal

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Speaker 1: policy to help wildlife recovery across the country. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was this recognition at the time we were still

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Speaker 1: dealing with the fallout from the market hunting and you know,

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Speaker 1: and the expansion west and just wiping out all these

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Speaker 1: herds of all these animals all over the place, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the different wildlife that we maybe take for granted

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Speaker 1: a little bit today. And so so we gotta convene

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Speaker 1: this group, bring everybody together. And and this guy by

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Speaker 1: the name of Ding Darling, who was actually a cartoonist,

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Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist from a newspaper in Iowa. He

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Speaker 1: was a political satirist, right right, Yeah, exactly so, And

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Speaker 1: there's a he has a big wildlife refuge named after him.

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Speaker 1: He does. He actually he actually designed the first duck stamp,

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Speaker 1: federal duck stamp too. He was the head of uh

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Speaker 1: what used to be the the preceding organization to the

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Speaker 1: Fishing Wildlife service. He's also the first president of the

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Speaker 1: National Wildlife Federation, and he was Yeah, he was the

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Speaker 1: one that can help convene this uh, you know, working

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Speaker 1: with the President and others, convene this big conference bringing

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Speaker 1: I think two thousand people attended at the Mayflower Hotel

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And at the end of this conference,

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Speaker 1: what they decided is we needed a large federation. We

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Speaker 1: needed a wildlife federation that brought together all of these

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Speaker 1: interests from all over the country. Uh, to take all

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Speaker 1: these local interests and and and really focus the efforts.

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Speaker 1: You're one of the things that we're talking about at

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Speaker 1: the time is the same thing you hear about today, right,

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Speaker 1: is we don't have enough funding for wildlife management. Right.

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Speaker 1: We you know, everybody wants to do the right thing.

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Speaker 1: Everybody recognizes that wildlife are struggling, but we don't have

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Speaker 1: the funding to put into it. And so this was

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Speaker 1: one of the first things that happened so that this

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Speaker 1: conference convenes creates the National Wildlife Federation. Now that this

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Speaker 1: conference and one of the first things that the National

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Federation does is helped pass the Pittman Robertson Act,

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Speaker 1: the big you know, this big piece of federal legislation

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Speaker 1: to figure okay, how do we at a federal level

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Speaker 1: help get resources on the ground for wildlife recovery, so

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Speaker 1: that the roots the history of our organization is, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the this big tent idea of bringing together everybody

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Speaker 1: from you know, egg interests and bird watchers and hunters

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Speaker 1: and anglers and everybody that that can say, Okay, we

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Speaker 1: might not agree on everything, but let's really work on

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Speaker 1: the eight percent of things that we agree on, and

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Speaker 1: let's try and improve the situation for wildlife and habitat

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Speaker 1: on the ground. And that's been the mission really of

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Speaker 1: the National Wilife Federation ever since. So today, you know,

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Speaker 1: fast forward eighty years, where we are one of the largest,

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Speaker 1: if not the largest um conservation organization organization of the country.

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Speaker 1: We have six million members and supporters. We have an

426
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: additional two million members through our affiliate network, which is

427
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: made up of fifty two affiliates from all over the country.

428
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: So we're here in Montana. The Montana Wildlife Federation is

429
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: one of our affiliates. Our affiliates in these fifty two,

430
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: more than half of them are what you'd call your

431
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: traditional hook and bullet clubs right there. They're founded on

432
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: really the hunting and angling principles. And and then we

433
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: have a couple of dozen, right that are that are

434
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: more of the UM they aren't really that are more

435
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 1: of the environmental type of group. Right. You got so

436
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: you got some of the groups that are just that

437
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 1: that that aren't They don't they're not have a struggle

438
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: in here, they don't have a stated anti hunting position,

439
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: but you get the sense that they they're private conversations

440
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: are very anti hunting, sort of like like Center for

441
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: Biological Diversity. Are they in your group or no? UM,

442
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: not that I've run across. No. And what's interesting about

443
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: the way we operate as a federation is so at

444
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: the National Wilde Federation are affiliates actually set our policies

445
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: and you know, our direction organizational directions. So you have

446
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: on one side of the coin you have your traditional

447
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: hook and Bullet that view as maybe a little bit

448
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: more conservative, right, and then on the other side you

449
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: have more of your traditional environmentalists I'm using very broad labels,

450
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: but that tend to be more left leaning. And they

451
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: them together at our annual convention every year, and they

452
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: set our policies and so they have to agree. And

453
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: what that usually means is we come in right down

454
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 1: the middle on things and we aim to be a

455
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: nonpartisan organization that really just wants to make sure wildlife

456
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: and people thrive in an ever changing world. That's our

457
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: mission statement. So we're a big tent organization, UM. But

458
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: we have of our membership UM I believe the last

459
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: I saw nearly two million of them are identify as

460
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: either hunters or anglers. Like they are hunters or anglers

461
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: or are interested in hunting and angling. That makes us

462
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: a pretty significant player in the hunting and fishing world.

463
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 1: But we also have this other side of our organization

464
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: that you have your you know, backyard gardeners and you know,

465
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, we have you know, your folks in the

466
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: city that want to do you know, do right by

467
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: wildlife in their backyards. And we have a Garden for

468
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: Wildlife program where you can you know, have a yeah

469
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: habitat in the yard uh recognized for doing good things

470
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: for wildlife, for pollinators, whatever. So it's just a big, big,

471
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: diverse tent. And then so my my niche within that

472
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: is right now leading our public lands program, which is

473
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: primarily focused in the western United States on public lands issues,

474
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: although we do some in other places where there are

475
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: public lands UM and a lot of Western wildlife issues,

476
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: which actually turns out there's an awful lot of overlap

477
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: between those two, I can imagine. So we're gonna hang

478
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: you in a minute here, we're gonna hit you with, uh,

479
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: we're gonna hit you with the thing we're gonna talk

480
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: about that's gonna have a lot of touch points view

481
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: boys Wyoming public lands. So you're gonna like it, looking

482
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 1: forward to it. Quick note, Dave and I actually still

483
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: work together a ton on issues. Dave's organization and my

484
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: organization both sit on a w c P American Wildlife

485
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: Conservation Partnership and uh, interestingly enough, you know we were

486
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 1: joking about this when we both nuts on a dog

487
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: man you just can't get, can't get. In fact, he

488
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: was talking about Pittman Robertson UM. Our organizations are members

489
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: where the folks that worked with NWF at the time,

490
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: and of course, you know, we want to make sure

491
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: people know like our membership are the guys that stroke

492
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: the Pittman Robertson check. You guys should get a little

493
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: duplex and just live there and we may have them.

494
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about it. Do you guys

495
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: influence the legislation as in lobbying for what happens in

496
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: the United States Congress? Uh? Yeah, so for both of

497
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: our organizations have a government affairs I don't do that personally.

498
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: We have a government affairs team that works with with

499
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: Congress and d C our affiliates do the work in

500
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: at the at locally at the state level, and I'm

501
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: I work more on the advocacy policy legal side and

502
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: and help provide those folks with the right information right

503
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: when they need it to to to ask make the

504
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: right asks. And occasionally, yeah, occasionally I'll go to I

505
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: don't go to a Republican Governments Association meetings. We'll go

506
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: to Western Governors Association and uh go to a lot

507
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: of the left conferences where state wildlife agencies come in.

508
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: Really it's important to have those relationships with state wildlife agencies.

509
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: In particular, I've had exposure to state legislatures in Michigan

510
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: as a home inspector. I was president of the association.

511
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: Not to bogus thing down, but it's amazing to me

512
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: how stupid and I don't have any other word. State

513
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: legislatures can be that's about bringing out laws that you mentioned.

514
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: I think they're extremely intelligent, and every state legislator is handsome.

515
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: These guys are just throwing out nothing but olive branches

516
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: over here. Anyway. Well, I'm just speaking from my experience,

517
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: and it's a different. Yeah, I've been in hearing where

518
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: I have and some of these legislators, now are you

519
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: know and senators they went from state legislatures to the

520
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: federal level. And I'm thinking, this person has no clue.

521
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: And I always I'm amazed that how are they there?

522
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: How do they do what they do and not know

523
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: what's going on around them? Bad lobbying, that's why. Because

524
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: if you're a good because uh, for here's the thing this,

525
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: this would be a good one for you because uh,

526
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: our our our colleague Sam James, say hello everybody, Sam, Hello, everybody,

527
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: to everybody. What you do around here? My role here

528
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: is the general merchandise manager, UH. And what I do

529
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 1: is UH I build and cultivate an assortment of products

530
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: for the Mediator web store. And this assortment of products

531
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: is based on the products that our team of content

532
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: contributors uses in their pursuits. Whether that's our hunting team

533
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: or fishing team, and our culinary team. So I work

534
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: very closely with our content teams and then are My

535
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: goal is to provide the product, bring the products to

536
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: the people so that you can uh for our followers,

537
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: our listeners and our viewers, they can learn about the

538
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: products that our team is using and then come to

539
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: our site and uh and understand why we use that product,

540
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: why we think it's the best and and um and

541
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: why they should consider buying it for their own purposes.

542
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: But today Sam is here, He's gonna tell us about

543
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: I don't know how I found out about this. Sam's

544
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: great great uncle Otto yep invented a this. I gotta

545
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: know if when if I knows about this invented and

546
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: promoted a instead of a ground a triangle bullet, a

547
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: triangle shaped bullet which I which never took off. Correct

548
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: Now you say it never took off? Over multiple meanings

549
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: on that. No, No, I guess I'm guessing it took off.

550
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: It flew, but it flew but didn't take off it

551
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, what walk us through it here? This

552
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: is this is a good story. So my great great

553
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: great grand uncle, his name is Otto Schnaylock, he was

554
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: one of So he was a great great great grand uncle. Yeah,

555
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: so that you could probably him without even getting in

556
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: trouble like that distant the brother of my great great

557
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: great grandfather. So oh that makes sense. I believe that's

558
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: called a grand uncle. Um Otto Schneylock was his name,

559
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: and he was one of three boys. Their parents were

560
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: killed in a runaway carriage accident in Germany in the

561
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds made they were made orphans, and they

562
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: traveled each individually carriage at Yeah, that's that's part of

563
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: the research that I did for today. They were killed

564
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: in a runaway carriage accident. Both the parents tragically killed.

565
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: The boys were made orphans along with their sister in

566
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: each one of them. Were they in the carriage too?

567
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: That's a good question, I assume not. Mm hmm. Man.

568
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: That might be a good time machine token right there.

569
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: If I had like a lot of tokens, I might

570
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,239
Speaker 1: take one to go see that happen. Yeah, I don't know.

571
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: If I had one token, That's not what I would

572
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: do with it. We you do. Oh, I'd go back

573
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: to see the first Americans enter the Western hemisphere, and

574
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: I'd ask him some questions. That sounds great and maybe

575
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: the next time I'd go find out what happened on

576
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: that with that runaway carriage accent. Well, the three boys

577
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: and their sisters were made orphans. They eventually all came

578
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: to America independently, and the three boys, Auto, Hugo, and

579
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: Emil began working in the firearms business. And Otto was

580
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: the inventor. He was the one. Did you say already

581
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: what year they came? Uh? They came around, uh, eighteen fifties,

582
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: eighteen sixties. So German orphaned kids. German orphaned kids. Um

583
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: and the three boys. So Otto is my great great

584
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: great grand uncle, and his brother Hugo is my great

585
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: great great grandfather. Now, Otto was the one who patented

586
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: the three oh seven triangular round and revolver, and Hugo

587
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: interestingly as well, he worked for the Winchester Company in

588
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: New Haven, Connecticut for fifty years, and he is said

589
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: in our family lore to be the designer of the

590
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Winchester Model ninety four. Now that's not what's in in

591
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: in the history books and online, so I don't want

592
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: to mistake, but that's what's said the family lower family records. Ye, Man,

593
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: I can't tell you a quick story about that. My

594
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: one of my childhood mentors, my dad's close friends with

595
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: a fellow name Eugene grons Uh. He had in his

596
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: place he had built these overhead gun racks, and he

597
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: had he liked to have a gun for every year

598
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: he'd been alive. I like this guy. So yeah, he's

599
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: like in his eighties, you know, and the guns just

600
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: like the roof is like I want to say, it's

601
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: the ceiling is basically carpeted in firearms. But he one

602
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: day I was too young to realize how what an

603
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: act of generosity is he one day in my presence,

604
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: when I was turning legal firearm age, which is twelve

605
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: in Michigan, he one day, Uh acts as though he

606
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: just made a discovery that he's eighty but there's eighty

607
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: one guns. Could I do him the favor? I've taken

608
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: one of them, and he gives me a uh model

609
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: with a peep site, And I went out to shoot

610
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: not a bunch, I want to went out to shoot

611
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: deer with this thing. And then one day took it

612
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: down to the wood stove store which had like a

613
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: gun counter, and sold that son of a bit man

614
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: for three d fifty bucks. You couldn't buy it now

615
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: for you if you wanted to go find that gun again.

616
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: I want that one back. I'm just saying, like, when

617
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: you find that gun, because somebody's got that somebody listening

618
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: to this, Like somebody listening to this podcast has that gun.

619
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: Twin Lake. I think it was called I can't remember

620
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: as a wood stove gun store in my hometown's going

621
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: by three. It was the best selling high powered rifle

622
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: in history. I think they sold over seven million of them.

623
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: So they're out there. So your family needs a good

624
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: lawyer to get some of that money back. Yeah. So

625
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: in family they're like so they're like yeah, yeah, yeah.

626
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: The history books say one thing, but everybody knows that. Yeah.

627
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: Apparently Hugo was according to our family history books, Uh,

628
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: he was hired by Winchester in his mid twenties. He

629
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: was a gunsmith in New Orleans at the time. Um,

630
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: and he was brought onto to be to Winchester to

631
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: become their chief of design. That's what's in the history

632
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: book in family history book. Excuse me, but but if

633
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: you look it up, it was um John Browning. Yeah,

634
00:33:53,280 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: that guy in the Browning left. Yeah, it's as soon

635
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: as he said that I was gonna ask, you know,

636
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: I think that I recognized another name associate with that,

637
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: and Browning of course is amazing. I have not heard

638
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: of the triangular bullet. Um. I saw first pictures of

639
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: the patents yesterday. They Karine shared him with me. So

640
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. And uh yeah, it's interesting how some

641
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: of that stuff. There's some really fascinating stuff out there.

642
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: When you go back in history and look at some

643
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: of the firearms in history. Um, some of the other

644
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, Lewis and Clark just comes to mind immediately.

645
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: No packing around him, BOLTI shot air gun exactly, you know,

646
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: in the early you know, things like that that people

647
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: would just never imagine we're invented. It's just really fascinating.

648
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: I agree, we'll get to auto, all right, get to

649
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: auto or whoever whatever then you got it. Um. Basically,

650
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: the focus of auto snails eight seventy two triangular bore

651
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: triangular revolver invention was to create a more effective personal

652
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: protection firearm because the public at that time was becoming

653
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: increasingly interested in in carrying their own pistol for personal protection,

654
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: and the battlefield weapons of the time were too heavy

655
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: and too large for concealed carry, and so the major

656
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 1: gun manufacturers started designing and developing personal protection revolvers, and

657
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: most of them, I believe. The first one was created

658
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: by Um Smith and Wesson their Model one, and it

659
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: was a twenty two rim fire pistol revolver and it

660
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: shot eight rounds eight round capacity. Ah. Eventually the public

661
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: wanted to have greater firepower above and so Smith and

662
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 1: Weston created a thirty two caliber revolver, but it only

663
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: held six shots. And then the the public wanted The

664
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: challenge became that the public wanted higher capacity revolver with

665
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: greater stopping power, with greater bullet um bullet weight. So

666
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: Um this was where Snail came in. He wanted to

667
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: create a revolver that had heavier bullet and also had

668
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: the higher capacity. So his triangular idea triangular bullet idea

669
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: was basically like if you cut an orange in half

670
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: and you look at the sections in the orange, the

671
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: nature of the triangular bullets, they fit together in a

672
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: tighter cylinder within that revolver. Oh that's what he was

673
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: driving at. Yeah, So he could wasn't like lining up

674
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of circles. Was just touched edge to edge

675
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: and create a lot of metal exactly. So his concept

676
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: in the invention was he took the same cylinder out

677
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: of a twenty two revolver and was able to fit uh,

678
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: seven thirties I believe it was seven thirty two caliber

679
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: bullets within the same cylinder as a twenty two caliber.

680
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: So what was previously the twenty two revolver shot eight bullets,

681
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: the the existing thirty two caliber revolvers from Smith and

682
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: Wesson shot seven. He could he could shoot eight of

683
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: the same caliber in the smaller package if they were

684
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: shaped like a triangle. If they were shaped like a triangle,

685
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: and uh, it never really got off the ground. He

686
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: got the patent, and interestingly, he got a secondary patent

687
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: a few years later for an improvement on a breech

688
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: loader gun, and that patent was about UM creating an

689
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: attachment to go within the breech loader that could adapt

690
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: the breech loader to shoot rim fire bullets because they

691
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: were just center fire at the time. So that was

692
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: kind of interesting too. So do you guys have around

693
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: in any of these old triangle pistols and triangle ammal

694
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: I don't, we don't. UM to my knowledge, there's only

695
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: one that exists. That's that's got the triangular boar as well. Um,

696
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: but um that I'm not sure about. Um that the

697
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: word from my grandmother that she knows at one point

698
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: there was one person who had bought this revolver and uh,

699
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: they're looking for it. But but beats me, did you

700
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: guys have this conversation just to make me happy? Because like, honestly,

701
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: like I'm such a geek about this kind of talking

702
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 1: about this for a long time, and I thought you

703
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: might enjoy it. No, it's awesome. It's super super interesting

704
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: because like you look at the advancements that people were

705
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: making in like the eighteen fifties and some of the

706
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: stuff that you were talking about, and then the technology

707
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: at the times, how they basically I mean you just

708
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: described firearms design and changes in farms, and I mean

709
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: you're talking about eighteen fifties. You could have been talking

710
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: about any time in the last two hundred years, because

711
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's that is the like, that's how

712
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: it works in this country. Like it's typically a lot

713
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: of people don't know, but innovations and firearms designs almost

714
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: always come from the civilian market and it's driven by

715
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 1: people who have real world concerns and real world needs,

716
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: and then it goes back to some engineer who's a

717
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: guy who's working at a company like Browning or like Winchester,

718
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 1: or or like Cult and then they're faced with trying

719
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, why Stephen Ronnella wanted this

720
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: thing in his gun, and then figuring out a way

721
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: to make it work. And then they test it and

722
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: then they roll it out to the public and they

723
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: see who likes it, and then you know, uh, somebody

724
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: does like it, and then it becomes popular and then

725
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, like a lot of times you hear people

726
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: think that like these advancements come from kind of this

727
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: military direction and they drive down the civilian market. That's

728
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: just not the case. It actually goes the other direction.

729
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: It's civilians like was Lewis and Clark who come up

730
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: with you know, the Hawkins rifle, you know, better guns,

731
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: and then ultimately, you know, these things are proven out

732
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: that their workable technologies, then they make their way the

733
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: other direction to where you know, military guys will will

734
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: start using some of those products to improve the stuff

735
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: that they have access to. And it's just it's really

736
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: a fascinating aspect of American firearms culture. This back and

737
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: forth in interaction that's always occurred in our country since

738
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 1: a guy, you know, put rifling in a in a

739
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: long rifle on the banks of Wylom Missing Creek, you know,

740
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: in the six hundreds. Uh, we'll come of Uncle Otto.

741
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 1: Did he ever, like come up with the great idea

742
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: and struck it rich? You know what happened? He was

743
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: actually killed in a shooting competition by a careless companion.

744
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, he really Yeah, And you guys might find

745
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: this interesting that after he after he enlisted in a

746
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: two year term in the Union Army as a volunteer,

747
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: and he got through the war, wasn't injured. So civil

748
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: War veterans Civil War veteran the n r A was

749
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: starting upright about the same time, I believe that was

750
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy eighteen seventy one, and a couple of years

751
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: after they founded d n r A, they started holding

752
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: shooting competitions and he got into these and um, according

753
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: to n r a's annual reports from eighteen seventy three

754
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy six, Otto did pretty well in these and

755
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: even one of the one one of the Sportsman's competitions.

756
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: So he was a competitive shooter and it was actually

757
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: lie Um it was it was competitive shooting that was

758
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: ultimately his demise. He was killed on the shooting range

759
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: accidentally shooting. Like, uh, firearms accidents and firearms incidents seemed

760
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: to be so much higher in those days. When you

761
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 1: read Life and Death at the Mouth of the Muscle Shell,

762
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: which I recently read, I mean people just I think

763
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: it's like people just trying to figure stuff out. But

764
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: man shooting themselves on accident, shooting each other on accident.

765
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: A lot of the things you take for like, a

766
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: lot of the sort of behaviors we take for granted

767
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: around safety just was not baked in the hunter. Safety

768
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: wasn't around yet. No, it's like it's interesting today it's

769
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: shooting sports are safer than any high school sport that

770
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: you can pull up, Safer than soccer, safer than softball,

771
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: safer than you name it. You know where it lines up.

772
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: I was looking at some statistics, Uh, billiards. Yeah, in

773
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: terms of injuries per hour, it's like a right around.

774
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of severe a lot of severe

775
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: injuries on the billiards table. There are a lot of

776
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: reasons rates rates like it was like, oh like nobody

777
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: blah blah, and you look at like the rates and

778
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: when you get down to like rate of injury per

779
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: hours spent per practitioner, I think it lines up with

780
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: pool and billiards. It's super low. And that's like Jannest

781
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: hit it on the nail on the head. It's has

782
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: to do with I mean, it has to do with

783
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: where we've come to. You know, firearms related accidents are

784
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: near all time lows right now. They've um like it

785
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: really is. It's it's a safe endeavor to get into it.

786
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: That said, it's because people need to follow the rules.

787
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: You know, there are certain rules of firearms safety. We

788
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: all know what they are, right Number one, and we

789
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: may talk about these again because they're super important. Number one,

790
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: every gun is always loaded, even if you have decided

791
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: in your head you don't think it's loaded, even if

792
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: the guy that hands the gun to you says it's

793
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: not loaded. Every gun is always loaded. Every gun is

794
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: always loaded. You treat it like it's always loaded no

795
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: matter what. Even if you just check the chamber and

796
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: you think it's not loaded, you treat it like it's

797
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: always loaded. You know, you know what book I bought

798
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: recently I couldn't finish reading. It's that it's called Dying

799
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: to Hunt in Montana, and it's a a exhaustive catalog

800
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: broken down by cause of death of everyone they can

801
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: find in the history who has died hunting. Here, all

802
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: the people that have died from grizzly bears exposure, anything

803
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: you could like the fact that someone took the time

804
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: to put this together is amazing. Did they write a

805
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: story about each person? And it's like two sentences. It

806
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: could be longer, be really interesting if you had the

807
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 1: whole backstory of a lot of some of them have got.

808
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: But you're back in the when you're back in the thirties, forties, fifties,

809
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: and you're in the hunting accident section, you can't it

810
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: just like there was a sort of mental shift that

811
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: occurred about um firearm handling. Well that that like that

812
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: kicked in some point between then and now. We're just

813
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: the amount of things we're like what what like crossing offense,

814
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: crossing offense, crossing offense, handing the gun to someone under

815
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: the fence, just on and on and on, and I

816
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: think that there's like we've somehow got to a point

817
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: where you just walk around a little more paranoid. Let's

818
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: it's like, it doesn't have to be paranoia, it has

819
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: to be habit And I think that that's what we've

820
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: gotten into now. And to be frank, this is one

821
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: of the challenges that you see, Like go to a

822
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: shooting sports competition now right, you're you're your girl Taylor, Right,

823
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: you watch somebody like that handle a gun at arrange.

824
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: What never happens. The gun never points at anybody. Why

825
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: because there's a practice. If that gun's ever pointed at anybody,

826
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: if it's ever pointed in the wrong direction, you're done

827
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: for the day. You're gonna go home and buy ice cream.

828
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: You're not welcome here because you're you're handling practices aren't correct.

829
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: Other the other things, you know, rules of firearm safety

830
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: also obeyed. There's uh, you know, you never point in

831
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: firearm and anything you're not willing to destroy. Why because

832
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: it's always loaded. You never have your finger on the

833
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: trigger and the manual safety disengaged until you're ready to shoot.

834
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: Why because the firearm is always loaded, even if you're

835
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: not putting anything you don't want to destroy. And then

836
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: last you never ever point a firearm that's something to

837
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: shoot it, put your safety off and figure on the trigger.

838
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: Unless you know exactly what you're gonna shoot and exactly

839
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: where the bolt's gonna go. Be sure if your targets

840
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: beyond it. Why because you're responsible for every bolt that

841
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: comes out of the gun. And through shooting sports, like,

842
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: none of that is negotitionable. It all happens all the time.

843
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: And so when you go to places where people are

844
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 1: participating in the shooting sports, those safety things are baked in. Unfortunately,

845
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: if you when people become you know, if we see

846
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: this actually in the hunting community way too much, where

847
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: people become they can decide that they can be lackadaisical

848
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: with the rules of firearm safety. Because I've been doing

849
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 1: it since i was ten years old and now I'm

850
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: you know, this age or whatever. I've always done it

851
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: this way, right where guys they take shortcuts, they don't

852
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: obey the rules, They put the gun, they carry it

853
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: in a weird way. They think it's okay to you know,

854
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: do certain things. And what you see is when you

855
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: see competitors and you see you know, and I've heard

856
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: had people say to some of the silliest things I've

857
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: ever heard somebody say, well, look at guys who are

858
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: like an elite military units, they point guns at each

859
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: other all the time. No, they don't, you know, I know,

860
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: you know, Kyle amb some of the best shooters, best

861
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 1: people in the entire world. There's zero tolerance for breaking

862
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: the rules of firearms safety. And it's baked in, and

863
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: that's something that we need to do as sportsman. We

864
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: need to bake this. We just have to insist on

865
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: that because you know, you take I take, you take

866
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: new guys hunting all the time. I'm sure I do

867
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: the same thing. It stinks to have to yell at

868
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: a guy, So first of all, don't yell at him literally,

869
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: but it's not fun to have to be the guy

870
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: to have to remind him the sixth time don't point

871
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: that at me, you know. But through doing that, if

872
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: you do that enough days in a row, guess what,

873
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: he doesn't point at you, and he doesn't point it

874
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: in anybody else, and then it's his turn to tell

875
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: somebody else not to you know, to be to be

876
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: muzzle aware. But if we don't do that as a

877
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: community like it's it's that it's having, it's caring about

878
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: somebody enough to make sure that they have good firearms

879
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: handling skills. That has made it so that we're not

880
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties anymore, so that you can go to

881
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: a shooting competition and not worry about your physical safety

882
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: and like it's just something we have to do, oh,

883
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: real quick, and they'll do this other real quick thing.

884
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: I have noticed that this might be anecdotal, I have

885
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: noticed in my lifetime a different attitude about chambering rounds.

886
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: Now we used to change in high school. It was

887
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: like part of stepping out of the truck, you throw

888
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 1: one in the chain because no one want to be

889
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: caught with their pants down, right, so it was always

890
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: ready to roll and then you just have the safety,

891
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: you know, standing between you. And that I've noticed in

892
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: my rather extensive social circle the people are a little

893
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: more deliberate about when it might make sense to rack

894
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 1: one in and walking out and setting decoys. Maybe maybe

895
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 1: you rack it when you're all set up and not

896
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: just kind of like habitually have it racked at all

897
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: times during all activities. Like we're more careful about that. Now. Yeah,

898
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: you get set up, you get the blind made out,

899
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: then you might throw one in the tube. I'm gonna

900
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: I'm not that guy you step out of the truck. Yeah. Like,

901
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: and it's I've watched friends that do what you're talking about,

902
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: Like they don't rack into the last second, like on

903
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: an l count for example, And I watched him forget

904
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: and pull up and just like, well there's the last

905
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: second and then there's just being deliberate. I mean it's

906
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: it's not like I'm riding down the road racked up.

907
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: But you know, like when I go set up a

908
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: my I get my gun loaded, put it in the

909
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: in the blind, and then I set everything up because

910
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: what if something comes in in case you got a

911
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: barrel rollback and probably overly cautious. Um, but all those

912
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: things are gonna be like those are gonna be personal decisions,

913
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: are gonna be cultural decisions, are gonna be family decisions.

914
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: And the one thing I would say, because I don't

915
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 1: think all of us here we could argue about that

916
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: until we're blue in the face, obey the four Fundamental

917
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: Rules of firearms Safety. If you obey the four Fundamental

918
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 1: Rules of firearms safety, literally every other incident that you're

919
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: going to talk about or imagine, your head goes away.

920
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: They don't exist if you obey those four rules. Okay,

921
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: are we done with Otto and the triang your bullets?

922
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: The other tragedies happened in his family? Well, uh, there

923
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: are actually two more things I wanted to mention. And

924
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that Auto didn't make it his

925
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: his invention didn't make it as because Colt began producing

926
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: the single action army revolver a K the Colt five

927
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy three, and that really blew up in

928
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: the following years when they started creating shorter barrel options

929
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: for civilian carry. So that was that was one of

930
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: the big reasons, not just his death, that it didn't

931
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: go anywhere. Um. And then the other thing that just

932
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: to mention is that the third brother, my other great

933
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: great great grand uncle, he worked for Springfield Armory in

934
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: Massachusetts for fifty years. So these were three orphans from Germany.

935
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: They came to America on their own independently and then

936
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: ended up being innovators and UH and developers within the

937
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:46,919
Speaker 1: firearms trade in the eighteen fifties to the early bring

938
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: this full circle again, Yeah, go for it. Friday, meaning

939
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: the day after Thanksgiving, just a couple of days ago.

940
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: My son, my eleven year old son took possession of

941
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: his great grandfathers Springfield Mark one which was manufactured in

942
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen, and that now sits in my gun safe.

943
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. That's awesome. It's got that little red

944
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: red something Redfield. Little Pete he bought. So he was

945
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: in Whiskey Whiskey two in the Pacific Theater and came

946
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: home and just bought a gun like what he was

947
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: issued when he was training in the military, and that's

948
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: what he bought. He bought it used for twelve bucks

949
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: and they still have the receipt. That's awesome. Yeah, my

950
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: kids real fired up to shoot something with it. Real

951
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: fired up. He's really he's excited. It was cool. Okay.

952
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: So auction House oft is Group six again auction sty

953
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: to support our access initiatives here at Mediator, we have

954
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: a New York's Met a New York Mets baseball bat

955
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: signed by our our buddy polar Bear, Pete Alonso, So

956
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: you can go get that bat signed by him and

957
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: use the thump fish in the head after you catch them.

958
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: We have two Trampled by Turtle concert Trampled by Turtles

959
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: concert tickets. That's Dave Simonette who's been on the show

960
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: as well. So Pete Alonso has been on this podcast.

961
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: Dave Simon that's been on this podcast. Um if you

962
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: want to go find the one that Dave was on.

963
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: It was episode called Sex, Guns and Bluegrass. So Dave

964
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: has the tickets and when you buy this package, you

965
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: go to the concert and you go backstage to attend

966
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: the meet and greet with Dave. It will be playing.

967
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 1: This one is good for Colorado's Red Rocks Amphitheater in July.

968
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: So you can get tickets for Colorado Red Rocks Amphitheater,

969
00:52:53,840 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: go back meet Dave. Um all paid. Here's another weird one,

970
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 1: uh you can get so Spencer, Seth, and Chester have

971
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: all volunteered to let you pick what you want them

972
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: to have tattooed on their arm. They're giving you a

973
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: quarter so it's the size of a piece. They're giving

974
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: you a quarter sized portion of the real estate on

975
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: their arm. You pick a tattoo design, they will get it.

976
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: This will be Seth's first tattoo. So you select a

977
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: design and then three people, the flip Flop Flasher, Spencer

978
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: and Chester the Divester all will bear your Designs says

979
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: here Phil too. Oh no, no, no, no, no, Phil,

980
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: that was part of the internet. Should care about conservation.

981
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: We can talk about that later. But no, it was

982
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: just why does it say you jumped on board? I

983
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: thought it was referring to on board, like getting a

984
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: tattoo train, not not this specific tattoo. What's wrong with

985
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: this plan? It sounds like a great plan. I just

986
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm you know, I mean, those boys

987
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: are gonna bring in a little bit of money sting,

988
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 1: those boys are being like not smart. I support it totally,

989
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: but come on, man, So you just explained why I'm

990
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: not going to be a part of that's why. That's why.

991
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: Hell no, But I'm just thinking, you know, a quarter

992
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: on your arm would really bring in the box. Yeah,

993
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: but I don't want a tattoo on my arm. Me

994
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: and my wife are the last untattooed couple in America.

995
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna get uh. I am gonna get that

996
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 1: world Slam Turkey tattoo I'm talking about if you get

997
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 1: it too, you know I'm not. I'm gonna get an

998
00:54:53,840 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: outline outline of like uh, North America on my arm

999
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: and then a dot where all the turkeys from my

1000
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 1: Turkey world Slam came from. And that suite my kids.

1001
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 1: When I told my little boy that, my six year

1002
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 1: old boy, he almost started to cry. He like thinks

1003
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: tattoos are very like just not a good idea. He

1004
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:18,479
Speaker 1: doesn't understand him. What would it take? Maybe he really

1005
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: understand them, he might understand the better wells money would

1006
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: it take? Like, let's just say, if if we just

1007
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: had that person that could should just shell out whatever

1008
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: number you put you pick, probably would be real careful about. Oh,

1009
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: like what amount of money? Yeah, for you to do

1010
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: a quarter sized tattoos so that all that money would

1011
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: go to land access. Five thousand dollars, that's it. But

1012
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: how long do you have to keep the tattoos? Because

1013
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: I understand that thing right, So you could get the

1014
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: tattoos some period of time like a permanent easy. Yeah,

1015
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten to that level yet, but yeah they

1016
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: can do. So they could pull a fast one like that.

1017
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: I don't think they're gonna pull a fast one. And

1018
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: every think Spencer's getting his whole damn arm tattooed. So

1019
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be in the midst talking else I

1020
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: was talking for you. I was talking for you, that's

1021
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 1: your sort of extending off what they might do for me.

1022
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: It would take five unless it was what I want.

1023
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: If they were just gonna pick what I want anyways,

1024
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: and I would just do it. But I don't know

1025
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: if I want it, Like my wife doesn't want me

1026
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: to my wife doesn't want me tattooed. It's like a

1027
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: lot of familiar resistance against this whole idea. But like

1028
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: our friend Pat Durkin, he started getting tattooed in his

1029
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: sixties because he thinks by the time he's sick of him,

1030
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: he'll be dead. So that dude's covered in new tattoos

1031
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: because he doesn't have enough time to regret it. He

1032
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: says he's just gonna die and think they're still cool.

1033
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: Who's that guy that? Uh I don't On a Saturday

1034
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: Night Live, he's like, all he has all those tattoos,

1035
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: and he said he's going through the process of having

1036
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: them all removed right now. Yeah, and he's talking about

1037
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: it being like the most painful experience of it. That's

1038
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: one dude, I don't understand how anyone like it's baffling,

1039
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: Like he's the least funny person on the planet. He's

1040
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 1: like the it's like the least funny funny person. Yeah,

1041
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: and he's he's dating some mega famous model, like a

1042
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: different one every single month. It's just it's wild. I

1043
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 1: don't understand it. How you could be that unfunny? Have

1044
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: you wanted? He did some roasts on on Comedy Central

1045
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: that we're really pretty good. I only see him coming

1046
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: on and like screwing up Saturday Night Live skits, but

1047
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: not even in a funny way. Well, anyhow, welcome to

1048
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: middle aged Mr. I gotta keep moving. No, it's not

1049
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 1: a middle aged thing. I think allows that's funny, just

1050
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: not him. Uh oh, so you get the Yeah, you

1051
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,919
Speaker 1: pick the tattoo, they get it on their arm. So

1052
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: those guys are, you know, putting their arm out for

1053
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: access my personal spear gun, which I've been shooting for

1054
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: a few years now. And if you successfully uh so

1055
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: Season ten um our next episodes the drop for season

1056
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: ten on Netflix, you'll see that spear gun in their

1057
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: Me and Yanni's super famous spear gun YouTube video. That's

1058
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: the gun in there. I've used it Mexico, Hawaii, America,

1059
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: all over damn place. That gun is up for auction.

1060
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: Mark's tree saddle from back forty. So Mark kenyans tethered

1061
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: mantis tree saddle that he used to kill the wide

1062
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: eight I meetators back forty, signed and donated by Mark Kenyon.

1063
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: We got some arts and crafts type stuff, a lot

1064
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: of it, and then Karn's crystal critter collection. So they're

1065
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: sitting from you right now. These are handmade red squirrel

1066
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: sterling silver, Herkimer diamond jewelry. Set includes earrings, a necklace, pendant,

1067
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: and a ring, all made of sterling silver and squirrel feet,

1068
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: sterling silver and squirrel fast. These bad boys around, beautiful work.

1069
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: My daughter shitter pants. I can tell you, like legitimately

1070
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: right now, like this is literally I'm holding a napkin

1071
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: like this tissue paper, buddy, don't don't mean, don't degrade

1072
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: its tiny little feet. Beautiful squirrel foot earrings, all kinds

1073
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: of squirrel foot jewelry. Brodie's turkey foot which is flipping

1074
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 1: the bird, which is a great I love making those things.

1075
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: You make a little plaque, it's a turkey giving you

1076
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: the finger. Brody's got one of those. Now here's a

1077
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: weird one in the auction house of oodities, and we've

1078
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: I have one in my personal collection. Now you gotta

1079
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: hear me out because we've checked into this. This is legit.

1080
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: It's a brick, Okay, Red You look at these bricks

1081
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: and you know these sons of bitches are old. It's

1082
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: a brick from the general store that Jim Bridger owned

1083
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: in Kansas City, Missouri. We have three of them. I

1084
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: rad hold one way. It's in my it's on display

1085
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: in my house. I rad hold one away me. Spencer

1086
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: has one, and Spencer has given the third brick from

1087
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: Jim Bridgers General Store in Kansas City, Missouri in the

1088
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: auction housbodies and you can check into the pedigree of

1089
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: this brick and everything is legit. Check this one out.

1090
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: Here's a good item. A guided tour of the Duran

1091
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: family farm. You get to go spend the day doing

1092
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: a tour. I think Duran is gonna donate four hours.

1093
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: You spend four hours touring Dug with Doug Durn, getting

1094
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: a tour of Doug Durn's farm, to talk about wildlife management,

1095
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: habitat management, how a family farm pays the bills and

1096
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: provides access and does the right thing by wildlife. You

1097
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: talk about all this with Doug. I could spend four

1098
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: years driving around with Doug talking about stuff on Doug's farm.

1099
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: He's a wonderful tour guide. Um, He'll take you to

1100
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,040
Speaker 1: get some cheese kurds. He will even throw in a

1101
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: whole jar of Buckman juice. You do not need to

1102
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: worry about the authenticity of the Buckman juice because you

1103
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: can watch Doug. Dog is willing to let you watch

1104
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: him emit the de Buckman juice throughout the four hours,

1105
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: and he will fill that jar up. Take across the

1106
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: line here. That's a that's a wonderful idea if you're

1107
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: into his Buckman juice. But I've got even a maybe

1108
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: a better idea. I think we should go national with that.

1109
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: I think you could have a Wisconsin version of Buckman

1110
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: Juice and then you could set up franchises all over

1111
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: the country. Yeah, but they have to like, like do whatever.

1112
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: They'd have to have the same diet as Dug. Dougget

1113
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,479
Speaker 1: has to lay out a regiment for them of how

1114
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 1: he produces such a potent juice. I'm gonna tell you

1115
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: the Latinan Eagles version works too well. I mean, you

1116
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: feel like you got I don't know a lot of

1117
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: deer came by my stand this we are in Wisconsin.

1118
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: Well that's true. What we'd have have to do is

1119
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: put up a trail cam. You take a whiz on

1120
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: a tree, and Doug takes a whiz on a tree,

1121
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: and then we wait and see it would be continent revenue.

1122
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, oh no, yeah, because because the problem

1123
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: with Buckman juices is not scalable, but we don't know

1124
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 1: that we haven't tested it. If it has to market

1125
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: and it's all over, and someone starts to get to

1126
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: calculate and how much year in one man can produce,

1127
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: it might be like an expose Like do you remember

1128
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: when there was an expose on dough and heat urine

1129
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: and someone went and looked at and all the sporting

1130
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: stories around the country how much dough and heat urine

1131
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: was for sale. And then they went and looked at

1132
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: how many captive does are there? How long is a

1133
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: dough and heat for? How much does she urinate while

1134
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 1: she's in heat? And they're like, there's a lot of

1135
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: stuff out there that says do and heat urine that

1136
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: there's no way is urine collected from a dough in heat?

1137
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: I agree, And that was like a big scandal. So

1138
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: if we do Buckman Juice and someone gets doing some math,

1139
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: it might turn out that they're like, you know, buck

1140
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: Man juice. Let me just introduce the next level, and

1141
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: that level is that you go to all these you

1142
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: make it Buckman brand, but then you have localized versions

1143
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: of it and you go to all these small breweries.

1144
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: You know, you just have a thing aside. Hey, like

1145
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: we'll pay you, and juice becomes like a brand. There's

1146
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: like sick dog signature, like the Doug signature lying and

1147
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: then yeah across stop peeing in the alley and pee

1148
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: in this cut. That's good. There could be a legal

1149
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: aspect to it, though, because if you turned it over

1150
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: to the cops, you know, I feel like it's going

1151
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: to hurt the value of the though if your original

1152
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: you're trying to oh yeah, but here's the deal man,

1153
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: this this is going on now and that so like

1154
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: if you want to get on the ground floor, you

1155
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: can get your during family farm tour, this farm tour

1156
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: with Doug during Dude, it better go for high dollar.

1157
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: I met. I became friends with Doug during because a

1158
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:57,919
Speaker 1: long time agoen I didn't get a lot of mail.

1159
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 1: I got a letter from Dug, and the letter was

1160
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 1: so touching, and I was so drawn to him and

1161
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: so moved by his story of his family's property that

1162
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: I went out and visited him. He could have chopped

1163
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: me up and buried me in a hole, but he didn't.

1164
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 1: We became like friends, and I'm one of his biggest cheerleaders.

1165
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: And to go and spend time talking about landscape and

1166
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: in relationships with the land with Doug during is a

1167
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: um quite a prize. There's a here's the free item giveaway.

1168
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: So this way all this other junk we're talking about.

1169
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: You got a bid on, like you want those squirrel feet, jewelry,

1170
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: you got a bit on you want to hang out

1171
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: with Doug. You got a bit on it. This is

1172
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: for free. It's a giveaway item. Soft sided yetie cooler,

1173
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: so yettie hopper, signed by a bunch of folks. Here

1174
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: at meter, stuffed to the gills full of merch, tease caps,

1175
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: cup spices, et cetera. We also got a bunch of

1176
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: other stuff, lots of art, a guided fishing trip in Arkansas,

1177
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: Genuine gator scoots, so cured taxidermied gator scoots that you

1178
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: lay out on the counter, which I kind of want

1179
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 1: a bid on myself. Check it all out. It's all

1180
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: on the auction block. All right, you boys ready to

1181
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: get get brass tacks on some Wylming public land stuff.

1182
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Okay, we're gonna avoid rabbit holes on

1183
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 1: this one and lay the groundwork right. Well, Yanni's gonna

1184
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: lay the groundwork first, Yanni explain for the eighteenth time. Oh,

1185
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about corner crossing so much that

1186
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: there was a Yellowstone Public Radio story that someone sent

1187
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: to me and then laying out when trying to like

1188
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: define corner crossing, the journalists pointed out that we talked

1189
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: about it all the time on this podcast. What does

1190
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: that make this podcast in the place where people talk

1191
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 1: about corner crossing all the time, but it's like reference

1192
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: material you might know it from this pop is like

1193
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: a popular Bowsman based podcast where they're always yam or

1194
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: on about corner crossing. So layout for me, so I

1195
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 1: can drink my coffee. What it means, what it means,

1196
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 1: Why it's why, why it matters succinctly. Yeah, out West,

1197
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: a lot of places we have what's called checkerboarded lands.

1198
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get into how they got that way

1199
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: because I'm doing the abridged versions that okay, but it

1200
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: is a good story. It is I don't worry about.

1201
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: But basically, if you think about a checkerboard, and if

1202
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,439
Speaker 1: all the black pieces were public and all the red

1203
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: pieces were private, and you were able to hunt the

1204
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: public just the black pieces, you would have to hop

1205
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 1: corner to corner to make it across the checker field

1206
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: and access all of the public land that technically you

1207
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: and all of us here owned and should be able

1208
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: to hunt. But because of rules and states basically saying

1209
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: that the landowners that own the adjoining land the red pieces,

1210
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: when they come to a corner, they own that air

1211
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: space above their two corners as well. So even though

1212
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 1: you don't touch their land as you cross over from

1213
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 1: corner to corner, you're trespassing through the air space above

1214
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: their land, thus making it illegal. Let me ask you

1215
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: a question, Johnnie, what would you imagine? Would you imagine

1216
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 1: that they're not actually concerned about your shoulders passing over

1217
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: their airspace? What do you think they really are after

1218
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: control of said public lands? Like it's just it's all

1219
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: for you, So it's like a proxy. Is this airspace issue. Like,

1220
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's like Tom, I'm worried about my

1221
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: air sprace. I think they're like, man, I'm worried about

1222
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of holders walking through land at time. Immemorial

1223
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: has just been available to me in my family. Nay,

1224
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: taxes on a very small rabbit hole. I apologize. Why

1225
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: is there so much checkerboarded land? Because they when they

1226
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: put the railroads in, that's how they gave away the land.

1227
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,439
Speaker 1: The railroads would encourage settlement and they did all kinds

1228
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: of transaction through land. So the railroads come in and

1229
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: to incentivize railroad construction, they would give like for every

1230
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 1: t as as the as the railroad company was laying track.

1231
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: They were subsidized by land grants. Okay, so you would

1232
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 1: get like it could be different deals. You might get

1233
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 1: fifty miles on either side of the train tracks if

1234
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: you build the tracks. Then those people needed to encourage

1235
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: settlement to have something, to to have freight. I'm just

1236
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,719
Speaker 1: going very general here. The railroad companies wanted to encourage settlement,

1237
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: and they had the land. They could dispose of what

1238
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: they will, But oftentimes they would give them every other

1239
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 1: section and they issued it out on these corner to

1240
01:08:53,720 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: corner touching pieces. So in some areas it's literally like

1241
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 1: you might look at an area that you might look

1242
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: at an area that could be let's say a township size,

1243
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 1: so thirty six square miles. The entire thirty six square

1244
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: miles might be like literally checkerboarded miles squares touching on

1245
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 1: the corners, maybe two million acres. Sometimes you'll get into

1246
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,640
Speaker 1: a situation like this where let's say you have a

1247
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 1: chunk of BLM. We'll just take BLM for instance, because

1248
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna get to I think is a BLM story.

1249
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 1: But let's say have a chunk of BLM and there's

1250
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: a road cut through it. So there's a county road

1251
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,679
Speaker 1: and you have access to that BLM. If you could

1252
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 1: jump one corner, it might not just open up a

1253
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 1: bunch of more checkerboard, it might open up a huge

1254
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: contiguous block. There are areas where jumping one corner, the

1255
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: ability to jump one corner would open up ten thousand

1256
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 1: contiguous acres of land. So there's some boys in Whiloming

1257
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,639
Speaker 1: that are in trouble right now because lot of states

1258
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 1: like it's unclear in a lot of states, like what

1259
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: the actual thing is Montana. They've often recommended against it.

1260
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: Their policy is, we recommend against it. We recommend that

1261
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: you get landowner permission because of the airspace issue. Four guys,

1262
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:18,640
Speaker 1: they were non residents. I feel like they should have

1263
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: been residents. Four non residents in Wyoming right now are

1264
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 1: up for criminal trespass because they corner hopped. Okay, there's

1265
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 1: a lot of interest in these fellers prevailing because if

1266
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 1: they prevail and they're found not guilty of criminal trespass

1267
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: for corner crossings precedent, people would be less likely. Dave

1268
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: shaking his head vigorously. No, yeah, that's why you're here, Dave.

1269
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, it's not your turn yet. Dave says,

1270
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 1: no that I'm to say, like, we got to take

1271
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 1: a lawyer from Wyoming. He's got to take off his

1272
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:59,400
Speaker 1: professional hat really quick. So this doesn't represent as Dave,

1273
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 1: you go talk to us. All talk to you is Dave,

1274
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: old Dave. Dave. Let me tell you something I have.

1275
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 1: Of all the names I have the best luck with,

1276
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: Dave's an incredibly long line of Dave's that i've we

1277
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: go back generation are names I have trouble with. I

1278
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 1: don't want to say him and so forth. There are

1279
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: names I have trouble with historically, and there's names I

1280
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 1: do well with historically. And Dave, And whenever someone's having

1281
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:30,600
Speaker 1: a kid and they say like, we can't think of

1282
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: the name, I'm like, I'll tell what your name is, Dave,

1283
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: because then I'll be friends with him. So I'm trusting you,

1284
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: and I want to hear from Dave, not some crazy

1285
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: asked lawyer. All right, what if I'm both not some

1286
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: tight ass lawyer. So let me lay a little more groundwork. Yeah,

1287
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: for sure in your answer or in your analysis of

1288
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: this situation. Oh, at first I got to get into this.

1289
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: There's a go fund me to help these to help

1290
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: these fellers fight their legal battle. Where is that? What

1291
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 1: is the fund? Keep finding? Oh? Holy count like all

1292
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 1: go fund me, it's like horrible, uh www dot go

1293
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: fund me, dot com, slash f slash, corner dash crossing

1294
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 1: dash legal dash fee fundraiser. But I bet if you

1295
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:22,920
Speaker 1: typed in a bunch of stuff like go fund me

1296
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 1: corner crossing fundraise, that you will find the thing, which

1297
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: is people raising money to help these corner crossers with

1298
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 1: their legal fees. Here's my the final thing I canna

1299
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:39,680
Speaker 1: say about this with corner crossing, I personally, personally and

1300
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 1: professionally would love to see a solution to corner crossing

1301
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 1: where uh we could work out a way for people

1302
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: to corner cross but it would need to involve some

1303
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: like careful survey work, and it would need to involve

1304
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 1: like I've seen that actually seen in some places. A

1305
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 1: imagine two adjoining step ladders that had so you pick

1306
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 1: these these like key areas, survey them, mark it out.

1307
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: You have two adjoining step ladders, so people are able

1308
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: to go up a step ladder laying on a platform,

1309
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: walk across the platform down the step ladder, and sportsman,

1310
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure would I would. I would. I would take

1311
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 1: every dime we raise with our Access initiative, that's to

1312
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: check with cal By bet Caldy into it, and we

1313
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: would put all of the money we raised with our

1314
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: Access initiative, if cal is okay with it into said

1315
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: surveying and said step ladder apparatus is in strategic locations,

1316
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 1: we would pay for all of that and start strategically

1317
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: going in and being like, here's another thousand acres for

1318
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: public hunters, here's another two thousand acres. Here's another five

1319
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:56,719
Speaker 1: acres survey it mark the corner, put the step ladders

1320
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 1: in if we could resolve the airspace issue. So, now, Dave,

1321
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: what comes to your mind when you hear all this? Okay,

1322
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: so I'll start with I like that throat clear, sorry

1323
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 1: that we're gonna get it right. Yeah. Um, so I'll

1324
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 1: start with this. I don't know the particulars of this case.

1325
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: Forget that this particular Um no, I mean to forget it,

1326
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: but it can inform it. But let's just talk about

1327
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 1: it in general, just corner crossing genil. So, because this

1328
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 1: is Wyoming, I'll talk to you in the context of Wyoming, right,

1329
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: but I can I can be a little bit broader,

1330
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 1: right like, So for example, let's start with with the

1331
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: basics of there's no law at the federal level that

1332
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: specifically allows or disallows corner crossing. So there's no there's

1333
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: no statute on the books. What would a law like that,

1334
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: say it would if you were to have one that

1335
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: allows it or disallows it? I mean like what, yeah, like,

1336
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: what would the law be? You know it would it

1337
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 1: be like an airspace issue or so? I it might

1338
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 1: be right like, so right now, the FA it controls

1339
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: the airspace and navigable air space and it and the

1340
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 1: way that that the f A defines it is, you know,

1341
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 1: in urban areas, the navigable airspace, which is the public

1342
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: domain for air space, starts at a thousand feet. In

1343
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 1: more rural and unpopulated areas, it's at fiet um. That's

1344
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,599
Speaker 1: the f A A right. But there's been some some

1345
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: Supreme Court case law that actually has said, well, you know,

1346
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: maybe that actually extends even closer to the ground than that.

1347
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: Um So, but you know, at the time those regulations

1348
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: were started, I don't think people we really thinking about

1349
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 1: corner crossing for hunting, your accessing public land. So so

1350
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: you'd write a law that if you were doing at

1351
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 1: the federal level, that says, you know, for purposes of

1352
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: accessing used BLM, for example, you know that it would

1353
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 1: be legal for for stepping from one corner at a

1354
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 1: survey pin right cut stepping over the survey pin to

1355
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 1: another UH piece of adjacent UH federal land. That's very simple.

1356
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: So you could be like nuts and bolts about it.

1357
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: For a purpose of public foot travel, public access, it

1358
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: is legal to blank yep, absolutely, you could do something

1359
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: like that. Um Okay, So the federal level. At the

1360
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,839
Speaker 1: state level. Now, this is where I'll get a little

1361
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: uh may get out of my lane just slightly, because

1362
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,680
Speaker 1: I haven't done a survey of every state, right, but um,

1363
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 1: and I might. So I'm because I know, like in

1364
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 1: I might get this wrong because in like South Dakota, right,

1365
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 1: you can walk section lines, uh, and that's a means

1366
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 1: of access. But places like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Colorado, Uh,

1367
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 1: some of those inner Mountain West states that you think

1368
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: of with the big chunks of public lands, there's no

1369
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if any law on the books in

1370
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 1: those states that either permits or specifically prohibits corner crossing.

1371
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,639
Speaker 1: So you start with this fundamental premise of there's actually

1372
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: no law on the book that expressly prohibits that activity

1373
01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: or expressly permits it. So then you have to dive

1374
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: a little bit deeper to figure it out. So here's

1375
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: here's Wyoming, for example, And so that's where I'll go

1376
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: to Wyoming because it's sort of what I know. Yeah,

1377
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: that's what that's what this cases cases. Right. So in Wyoming,

1378
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: we do have a law on the books, uh, and

1379
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:17,719
Speaker 1: it's ten four Wyoming Statute ten dash forward dash three

1380
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: O two uh and three oh three, which defines the

1381
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 1: ownership or gives the ownership of the space above the

1382
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: lands and waters of the state. It's vested in the

1383
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,640
Speaker 1: owners of the surface beneath that air. So basically, you

1384
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 1: own the surface, you own the air above it. And

1385
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 1: there's an exemption carved out for aircraft so long as

1386
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: it's not so low that it interferes with the existing

1387
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: use of the land. So theoretically it could come pretty

1388
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:48,840
Speaker 1: low if you're not interfering with the existing use or

1389
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 1: enjoyment of the private land. Uh. I mean, if you're

1390
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: scaring the hell out of someone's cattle, that might be interfering.

1391
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: Might be interfering. Yeah, exactly, so, So that's where the

1392
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:01,840
Speaker 1: art you hear that the argument come up at. Okay, um,

1393
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: if you own everything, if you have a law in

1394
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: the books that says the lander owns everything from the

1395
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: the ground up, and you have these and you have

1396
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: laws of surveying, right that the principles of surveying property

1397
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: lines says you have a your property line is infinitely

1398
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 1: thin that when you get to these corners, there's no

1399
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:24,679
Speaker 1: way of actually stepping across a corner, even if you

1400
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 1: know the survey pin is there without to your point,

1401
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: without your shoulders entering the airspace? Where which is where

1402
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:37,000
Speaker 1: the argument is that you can't corner across because you

1403
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 1: have this law on the books saying they own the airspace.

1404
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 1: I think, and I'm not taking like, I don't take

1405
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 1: a position right, I'm like not taking a huge position here.

1406
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to lay out with the So here

1407
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: are a couple of supposed to be Dave, let me

1408
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 1: ask you this. Okay. Let's say our whole system of

1409
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 1: government and rules and everything changed. It just became where now.

1410
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: And then we decide that we're just gonna ask Dave

1411
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,719
Speaker 1: if it's okay, and that becomes the rule of the land.

1412
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: And we come to you and we're like, this one's

1413
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 1: in your court, Dave. It's corner crossing okay or not okay?

1414
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 1: What would you say, as do I want it to

1415
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 1: be okay? Or is it legally? You get you're the

1416
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 1: man you're putting on putting me on it. Man, the

1417
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,679
Speaker 1: final the constitution needs this. It's like the Constitution says

1418
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 1: on this issue, Dave will decide, Yeah, I want us

1419
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to be able to access

1420
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,599
Speaker 1: our public lands. Right, and and so that it's evasive.

1421
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 1: But you're there, yeah, I'm feeling. So there are here

1422
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: two examples i'd give you of where this if there's

1423
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 1: a principle in the law when you're interpreting a statute,

1424
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,639
Speaker 1: so I look at this one of ownership of airspace.

1425
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,120
Speaker 1: There's a principle in the law called, uh, you know

1426
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: when you're doing statutory construction, which is, you know, a

1427
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:53,960
Speaker 1: court is interpreting a statute, and you you start with

1428
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: the plane meaning of the words on the page. You

1429
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: start with, Okay, what's the plane meaning of the law, say,

1430
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: and if plain meaning is clear, you don't go any farther.

1431
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:04,799
Speaker 1: That's what you apply. But there's another principle in statutory

1432
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 1: construction that says you can't read a statute to create

1433
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 1: an absurd result. Uh that yep, yep, and so and

1434
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 1: so I'd like so i'd propose this. Here's two examples

1435
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 1: i'd proposed to you that I throw that I'd throw

1436
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 1: out there in Wyoming right of examples where if you

1437
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:25,719
Speaker 1: read the letter of the law, you'd be trespassing every time.

1438
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: But I've never heard of anybody's sided for trespassing. These

1439
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:32,800
Speaker 1: two examples because it would be an absurd result. One

1440
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 1: of them is if the property line is infinitely thin.

1441
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 1: We have laws for for building fences. For example, if

1442
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 1: you put a fence up on your property line that's

1443
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: not infinitely thin, you are by definition trespassing on your

1444
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 1: neighbor's property by putting up that fence. But we allow

1445
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 1: you to do that, and we want, we encourage people

1446
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 1: to do that. Um. And in fact, we're a fence

1447
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 1: out states. So if you don't want neighbors livestock coming

1448
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 1: onto your property, you're encouraged to put up a fence

1449
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: and keep them out right. UM. So there's an example

1450
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 1: where I have never seen somebody sided. You follow the

1451
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 1: statute for how to construct a legal fence, and as

1452
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:10,759
Speaker 1: long as you do that, you can put a fence

1453
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,600
Speaker 1: on a surveyed property line that's your property line, and

1454
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:17,679
Speaker 1: even though that fence is half half on their property,

1455
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 1: it's not a trespass. You can do that can give

1456
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,639
Speaker 1: you an example. I was good. So here's my second

1457
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 1: example before I forget it because I freaked. I'm sorry.

1458
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: My second example is so in Wyoming, water is the

1459
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: properties of the state, and it's if you want to

1460
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:38,759
Speaker 1: float on. So the landowner may own the In Wyoming,

1461
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 1: they may own the bed and the banks of the river.

1462
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 1: You can't put your foot on the on the bottom

1463
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 1: of the river and you're trespassing. But as long as

1464
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: you're on that water, you're not trespassing. So you're sitting

1465
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 1: on public water but over private land, therefore in private airspace.

1466
01:21:57,080 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: But I've never heard anybody gets sited for trespass. You're

1467
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 1: floating along in your tube, right, You're technically everything underneath

1468
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 1: you is private land. Yeah, why don't they make the

1469
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: airspace argument there? I've never heard it made, right because

1470
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 1: I think it would be an absurd result. We said

1471
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 1: those are navigable waterways, and that the public is entitled

1472
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 1: to use those navigable waterways as long as they don't

1473
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 1: put their anchor down or or or get out and

1474
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,719
Speaker 1: wait on the That's the first time I've ever heard

1475
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: that point raised, because you haven't talked to me about it. Yeah,

1476
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 1: he's a good attorney. You're floating in shallow water. You're

1477
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 1: closer to their land than you would be stepping over it. Right.

1478
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:41,599
Speaker 1: What I was a good point out was, let's say

1479
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 1: you get out to take a leak on the side

1480
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:44,599
Speaker 1: of the road and you walk down and you point

1481
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 1: out something over the fence. You're never gonna get a

1482
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,360
Speaker 1: ticket for your arm pointing over the fence, right, I

1483
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 1: thought you're gonna say, and you have a little bit

1484
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: of wind draft with your pee. I was saying like like,

1485
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 1: if you're staying there, and I'm like, you know whatever,

1486
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 1: I jest you're over fence and someone says I'm going

1487
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: to give you a citation for having your him over

1488
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 1: that offense, there's no way you're gonna wind up walking

1489
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: out of that courthouse. So to find like you're you're right,

1490
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:09,479
Speaker 1: my arm waved over the fence, so you can can

1491
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:13,680
Speaker 1: I make a couple of other points on okay, so

1492
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 1: so you get to let me let me talk about

1493
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 1: this specific point because I think you're honestly you were

1494
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:20,280
Speaker 1: making that when you're introducing this, you're saying, well, maybe

1495
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: it'll set a precedent or something. The way that the

1496
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 1: judicial system works. So this is in a circuit court, right,

1497
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:29,600
Speaker 1: it's a misdemeanor offense. The penalty for a criminal trespassing

1498
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 1: wyming is maximum seven fifty dollars and up to six

1499
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 1: months in jail u for for this misdemeanor. It's not

1500
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 1: gonna origin open jail. Yeah, Like if I could pick

1501
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 1: between these two seven fifty bucks sounds better, it's yeah. Uh,

1502
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: So it's a misdemeanor offense. Right if if the defendants

1503
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: here are are acquitted at the circuit court level, there's

1504
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: no legal precedence set so that because it's just just

1505
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 1: down that the facts of the situation showed there there

1506
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 1: either wasn't enough to convict, there wasn't enough to show

1507
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:08,680
Speaker 1: that they actually trespassed, or or the facts show that

1508
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:11,559
Speaker 1: they in fact did not trespass. But there's not a

1509
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:17,920
Speaker 1: legal interpretation of uh in that situation about whether that uh,

1510
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 1: whether the application of like ten four three oh two

1511
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 1: the airspace law, whether that creates this uh, whether they

1512
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 1: breached the invisible barrier, And there's no interpretation as a

1513
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 1: matter of law. They're on a on an acquittal. Now,

1514
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:35,280
Speaker 1: if they're found guilty, then there is a process to

1515
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 1: appeal that to the district court and the Supreme Court,

1516
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: and then at that point they could make arguments on

1517
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: matter of law and do this this interpretation and talk

1518
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,879
Speaker 1: about you know, maybe you're you're creating an absurd result

1519
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 1: here or whatever, and then you could potentially get to

1520
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:53,720
Speaker 1: the point of having um something that sets precedent. But

1521
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: if at the circuit court level, if if they aren't,

1522
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,080
Speaker 1: if they are not convicted at the circuit court level,

1523
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 1: it's not it's not going to can you can you

1524
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 1: plead guilty and then if you wanted to advance, like

1525
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 1: let's say you really wanted to push for a test case,

1526
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't work that way. You can't plead guilty and

1527
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 1: then appeal. No, you just plat out. I mean, I'm

1528
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: not a criminal lawyer. I remember. This reminds me of

1529
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 1: another wildlife issue that I used to follow. There was

1530
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 1: a on the Flathead Reservation in northwest Montana. There was

1531
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 1: a rule that, like UM, at some point in time,

1532
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: tribal members were able to sell land to non tribal members.

1533
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 1: So you had a lot of non tribal members who

1534
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:39,559
Speaker 1: owned land within the reservation boundaries, but because they weren't

1535
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 1: tribal members, they didn't enjoy certain hunting privileges on their

1536
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:47,719
Speaker 1: own land because it was governed. The hunting was governed

1537
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 1: for tribal members. Remember this guy when I was when

1538
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 1: I was living over that neck of the woods, this

1539
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 1: guy would make a big scene out of every year,

1540
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 1: inviting a bunch of people out to do a pheasant hunt.

1541
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:05,639
Speaker 1: And he'd always be come arrest me, please, because he

1542
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:10,720
Speaker 1: wanted to get it pushed to the right court. And

1543
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:14,600
Speaker 1: he would be frustrated because they wouldn't do anything, and

1544
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:16,280
Speaker 1: he just wanted to get it to a point where

1545
01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 1: it could be clarified law. He wanted to challenge the law,

1546
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:23,400
Speaker 1: but they never would take de bait with him because

1547
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 1: they knew what he was after. Is there a chance

1548
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 1: that someone would just be like, Okay, you're not guilty

1549
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:33,880
Speaker 1: in order to not do precedent or does the world

1550
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 1: not working like conspirators conspiratorial ways like that, you know?

1551
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 1: And I don't know the answer to that. I'm not like,

1552
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 1: that's not something I could speculate about. I would hope

1553
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,600
Speaker 1: that I would hope that our judicial system works in

1554
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:46,560
Speaker 1: a way, um that the facts of the situation in

1555
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:49,559
Speaker 1: the law are applied fairly to everybody and nobody's trying

1556
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 1: to use it as a way to game a system, right,

1557
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 1: especially in the criminal context, which this is, you know,

1558
01:26:56,200 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: in the civil context, I've definitely have seen exam pults

1559
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 1: of trying to to game figure out a way to

1560
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: gain this instant but in the criminal context, I really

1561
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:07,200
Speaker 1: hope that that I really hope that doesn't happen. So

1562
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 1: does it seem like the go fund me is getting

1563
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 1: ahead of itself, like they should maybe not fund these

1564
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 1: feathers yet so they don't have like like have them

1565
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 1: going with a poor legal defense. They get convicted, then

1566
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:25,640
Speaker 1: you pour the money to them and they go to

1567
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 1: the next state supreme US Supreme Yeah, it wouldn't be.

1568
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 1: It would go state Supreme Um. It's a state statute

1569
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: and so never wind up. It could never go to

1570
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,479
Speaker 1: a it could never go to a federal thing. You know.

1571
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 1: I don't think they'd be making a constitutional argument here.

1572
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: I suspect that this stays at an interpretation of state law,

1573
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 1: and it it would go to the state Supreme Court,

1574
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 1: and that would probably be the end of it for

1575
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 1: that because we're talking about the application of of a

1576
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 1: of a state statute, criminal trespass statute. Are you tempted

1577
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 1: right now to do like um? You know, sometimes like

1578
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 1: big shot lawyers come in and do like so they

1579
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:05,200
Speaker 1: do some grand standing by doing like a pro bone

1580
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 1: o deal and all that are you is that? Are

1581
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: you drawn? Are you are you feeling there's a lot

1582
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:10,880
Speaker 1: of these cases, a lot of situations like this that

1583
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 1: are tempting. Yeah, for sure, tempting just to get in

1584
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 1: there and see what's going on. I haven't been asked, right,

1585
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 1: I haven't been asked. I don't know if I would

1586
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:21,600
Speaker 1: be asked, but uh, yeah, it's interesting there. It's there

1587
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: are a couple other things on this that I think

1588
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:25,600
Speaker 1: are worth knowing, right as far as why I'm in

1589
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,720
Speaker 1: specific law and corner crossing, so this they're they're being

1590
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:31,759
Speaker 1: prosecuting it, or criminal trespass statute. We have two different

1591
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 1: We always several different trespass statutes. The criminal trespass is

1592
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 1: one that, uh, the only way you get cited for

1593
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 1: that is if you know you have so either the

1594
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:49,160
Speaker 1: landowner themselves or law enforcement UM have told you you

1595
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: can't be here, you're trespassing, you can't be here, or

1596
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:56,160
Speaker 1: the landowner has posted signs making it very clear that

1597
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 1: you are not allowed to be there um. So it's

1598
01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:02,719
Speaker 1: it's incumbent upon the landowner to notify the person potentially

1599
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 1: entering the property that it's uh that they're violating. You know,

1600
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,320
Speaker 1: that they don't want them to trespass in that case

1601
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 1: they can be cited in Wyoming, just his corner fence

1602
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: isn't enough. There might there might not have been a fencer.

1603
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 1: So what I understand my understanding of this particular one,

1604
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:18,800
Speaker 1: and I might have the facts around, but I've been

1605
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,320
Speaker 1: briefed a little bit on it, right, was that there's

1606
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,040
Speaker 1: a survey pin but no fence, and that he actually

1607
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 1: used a step ladder like you're talking about right, uh,

1608
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: and so never touched the ground on that's yeah, supercrafty, right,

1609
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 1: And if it's the spot I think it is. There

1610
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 1: there had been some tea posts jammed into the ground

1611
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 1: with no no trespassing on the private side to make

1612
01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 1: it impossible to squeeze through, so you actually the only

1613
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 1: way you could do it was to go over the top.

1614
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:50,599
Speaker 1: So it was actually it may have taken a little

1615
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 1: forethought to to do this. Um, but why do you

1616
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 1: seem like you seem mildly uncomfortable? Are you just not

1617
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 1: at all? I love it? Like you're like you're so

1618
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:02,720
Speaker 1: you've dealt a lot with water stuff. Yes, okay, hit

1619
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: me with the water thing that like floating down the river. Oh,

1620
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 1: there's it's different in every state. No, I mean, let's

1621
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,800
Speaker 1: stick with Wylming. What you do? You do a lot

1622
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,240
Speaker 1: of water rights issues. So why has no one ever

1623
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 1: since my disclaimer, I can't speak on behalf of like,

1624
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm not on Turney. Second of all,

1625
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 1: like as I can give you opinions, let me ask

1626
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 1: you some yes or no questions. Okay, are you or

1627
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:27,719
Speaker 1: are you not an expert in water rights? I'm gonna

1628
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:35,719
Speaker 1: say no, bullshit? Man. You know I actually I actually

1629
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 1: practiced water loft for like eight years. But I thought

1630
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:44,599
Speaker 1: that your whole deals that'sfferent rights. That's different like waters

1631
01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:46,639
Speaker 1: of the US and things like that. I can talk

1632
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 1: about waters of the state, waters the US, I can

1633
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:50,599
Speaker 1: talk about the arguments in but when you're talking about

1634
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 1: water rights, you're typically talking about an individual's right to

1635
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:54,400
Speaker 1: pull water. That is that what I meant? I meant

1636
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 1: floating down the river? Yeah, no one's challenged. Why has

1637
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 1: no old landowner said, um, those people coming down my

1638
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 1: river are in my airspace. Please give them a ticket.

1639
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 1: Why have they not done? What I think has happened

1640
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 1: is I think we've carved out an exception the way

1641
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,560
Speaker 1: we did for that the f a A A did for

1642
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 1: for navigable airspace and we did the same thing for

1643
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:24,759
Speaker 1: navigable water, so we've effectively created an exception navigable waters.

1644
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:26,360
Speaker 1: They belonged to the waters of the US, and we've

1645
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:28,519
Speaker 1: the reason that we've made that hook is the fact

1646
01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 1: that they are navigable waters. Could you really say, well,

1647
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 1: we're calling them navigable waters, but we're gonna tell you

1648
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 1: can't navi I'm saying that that little lens of water

1649
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 1: negates the little lens of water you're in the waters airspace.

1650
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:47,760
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Right, that's that's the theories. But but right,

1651
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:52,080
Speaker 1: could you say, could you say there that there is

1652
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:54,720
Speaker 1: he was being coy. He doesn't know a thing. The

1653
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:57,600
Speaker 1: thing is Dave, Honestly, Like I'll say this, Dave is

1654
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: better at the stuff than anybody I know on Earth.

1655
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 1: And like there's some of these issues that like you

1656
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:04,599
Speaker 1: haven't even touched on yet that I'm hoping, like I'm

1657
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 1: sitting here with a kind of a grand waiting for

1658
01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 1: the chance to get you to talk about a different

1659
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 1: legal issue in Wyoming that Dave is really really good at.

1660
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: But like, Dave is the man on this stuff, and

1661
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 1: so I could I can tell you what I think

1662
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:17,160
Speaker 1: and what I know and half of what I know

1663
01:32:17,240 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 1: comes from sitting in a car and with Dave talking

1664
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:23,920
Speaker 1: about suppressors while he tells me about trespassing. Do you

1665
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:28,760
Speaker 1: guys do it at the same time? Basic probably just

1666
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:30,600
Speaker 1: talking right over each other, all right, So go on,

1667
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:34,360
Speaker 1: all right. So the last piece I was gonna say

1668
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:39,080
Speaker 1: is Okay, so water, we've created this exception for navigability,

1669
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 1: like this navigable waterway, right, that creates an exception. We've

1670
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:46,599
Speaker 1: done it for airspace. Um, there's a quite there's still

1671
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:49,760
Speaker 1: a question about how far that air space comes down, right,

1672
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: And you know there's some Supreme Court case law from

1673
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:56,639
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, uh that that kind of suggests that.

1674
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 1: And it's specific to airplanes, right, but as long as

1675
01:33:01,240 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 1: you don't and I mentioned it earlier, as long as

1676
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 1: you don't disrupt the enjoyment of that private land, meaning

1677
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 1: you're not harassing livestock or you're causing major problems uh

1678
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:14,880
Speaker 1: to the landowner. Uh that if you're in that airspace, Uh,

1679
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 1: you're not violating that property. Right now, that hasn't been

1680
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,080
Speaker 1: fully played out. This was very specific to airplanes. That

1681
01:33:21,160 --> 01:33:23,799
Speaker 1: wasn't to foot traffic, and it was you know, seventy

1682
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 1: five years ago. UM. But I do have a question

1683
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:28,880
Speaker 1: that I think and I don't have an answer to this,

1684
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:32,400
Speaker 1: but like we've carved out a space for airplanes for

1685
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 1: navigable water or for air we've carved out a space

1686
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 1: for navigable water. Um, we haven't talked about foot traffic

1687
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:41,920
Speaker 1: as a means of navigability of public of a public

1688
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 1: trust resource. Because what we're talking about here is a

1689
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 1: public trust resource of airspace to move commerce and so forth,

1690
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 1: a public trust resource of water, uh to move on.

1691
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:52,679
Speaker 1: And we have a public trust resource of land uh

1692
01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 1: so air water and land, and we haven't decided that

1693
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 1: land piece yet. UM. But it gets back to the

1694
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:00,800
Speaker 1: sort of come back to that, you know, interpret a

1695
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 1: statute with absurd results. And I you know, if if

1696
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,600
Speaker 1: I were making an argument and I'm not providing right,

1697
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm not providing legal advice or just having a conversation

1698
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:12,200
Speaker 1: about you know what ifs right? Uh, which is another day,

1699
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:16,280
Speaker 1: but yeah, just another day. But I'd consider making that

1700
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:20,960
Speaker 1: case that uh, it's another form of navigability of a

1701
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 1: UM of a public resource, right of a public trust resource.

1702
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:27,200
Speaker 1: I want people to understand. I want to put I

1703
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:31,880
Speaker 1: want to put some superlatives on here. Sure this is

1704
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 1: not to degrade or de mean any of the work

1705
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:40,880
Speaker 1: done by conservation pro access organizations that do a lot

1706
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 1: of great land acquisitions. Like in a minute, need I

1707
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:45,120
Speaker 1: was going to tell us about this eight thousand acre

1708
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 1: property in Utah, which is super cool. Okay, um, Rocky

1709
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: Mountain ELK Foundation is set aside. I don't know whether

1710
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:55,599
Speaker 1: the hell they at now. I mean absurd millions numbers

1711
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,720
Speaker 1: of acres that the Rocky Mountain Olk Foundation, Yeah, has

1712
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:01,320
Speaker 1: like raise money to bo I and to open to

1713
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:06,200
Speaker 1: public access ducks unlimited enormous amounts of acreage that they've

1714
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:08,479
Speaker 1: bought and handed over to public access. Like all that's

1715
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:15,760
Speaker 1: that's great, But in terms of a single act that

1716
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:20,639
Speaker 1: would increase public access, there's nothing that would come close.

1717
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 1: In the next ten generations of humans, Nothing would come

1718
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:34,559
Speaker 1: close to a broad scale clarification of the ownership of

1719
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 1: that airspace. In terms of foot traffic, you would be

1720
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:44,120
Speaker 1: opening up literally hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of acres,

1721
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 1: millions literally millions of acres. You just have to find

1722
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 1: the right person and the right case. You have to

1723
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 1: find the right opportunity, the right attorney, right person, it's interesting.

1724
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:57,760
Speaker 1: There's another issue a lot like this in Wyoming. Go on, Well,

1725
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, you can't hunt willderness areas if you're not

1726
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:04,800
Speaker 1: a president without a guide. Oh man, I got a

1727
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:06,439
Speaker 1: lot to say on that. We've covered that one and

1728
01:36:06,479 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 1: I've even explored it with Dave, but not not on

1729
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:11,400
Speaker 1: your podcast. No, I know. But you know what I did.

1730
01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:13,679
Speaker 1: I summed up a thing you explained to me once

1731
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:16,479
Speaker 1: I was asking you. We talked about this recently and

1732
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: I mentioned I don't think I mentioned you by name.

1733
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:21,519
Speaker 1: I mentioned something you explained to me where I was

1734
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 1: always going to like with certain rules, I'm like, well,

1735
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:27,800
Speaker 1: why what were the arguments for and against? And you

1736
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,599
Speaker 1: had explained to me that when it comes to legislative action,

1737
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:38,400
Speaker 1: they don't memorialize all of the wise then memorialize the outcome.

1738
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:40,839
Speaker 1: But no one like puts down like here's the pros

1739
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 1: that someone so raised and here's so when you go

1740
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:45,040
Speaker 1: back to something that's been in existence for a long time,

1741
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:48,479
Speaker 1: you don't have an accurate record of who argued, what point,

1742
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 1: and what were they really getting at. It's just you

1743
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:53,879
Speaker 1: just know what they came up with. I was explaining

1744
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 1: that might I might mutilated that that's right because I

1745
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 1: was asked you like, why what was the argument for

1746
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:00,639
Speaker 1: and you're like, I can't go tell you the arguments. Yeah. Yeah,

1747
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 1: we did talk about that at some point. If you want,

1748
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:06,480
Speaker 1: we can talk about what I think the legal vulnerabilities

1749
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,400
Speaker 1: to that law are. I know you think it's vulnerable.

1750
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:11,599
Speaker 1: I've I've got a couple now, I think I've talked

1751
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:13,360
Speaker 1: to you before about at least one. But I know

1752
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:16,760
Speaker 1: if I've got a couple of legal vulnerabilities to that law, um,

1753
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:18,680
Speaker 1: explain the law. When do you explain the law? And

1754
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:20,840
Speaker 1: then when you explain the vulnerable be done with corner

1755
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:23,640
Speaker 1: crossing if you are I mean, I was trying to

1756
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 1: lay a huge superlative on it. Yeah. Oh. The other

1757
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:27,760
Speaker 1: part is they're there. They are partly that I think

1758
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: that that the the the sporting community, the access community

1759
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:33,320
Speaker 1: needs to be prepared for, is they need to be

1760
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:39,160
Speaker 1: prepared for the fact that UM fences are often laid

1761
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:43,960
Speaker 1: down in terms of people eyeballing things. They're laid down

1762
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 1: in terms of convenience. You might if you have like

1763
01:37:47,479 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 1: a finger ridge coming off a ridge hundred and thirty

1764
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:53,639
Speaker 1: years ago, some guy might have run his fences down

1765
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:55,640
Speaker 1: the finger ridge because it was an approximate, It was

1766
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:57,720
Speaker 1: approximately right, and it was a hell of a lot

1767
01:37:57,800 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 1: of easier than running it down some rocky you draw

1768
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 1: where you couldn't put a post in. Uh, if this

1769
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 1: became a thing, we need to be prepared for, like

1770
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 1: I said, and overcoming a lot of issues around like

1771
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:15,120
Speaker 1: marking surveying. It doesn't mean that you just jump up

1772
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:17,800
Speaker 1: to any two fences that come together. Those fences could

1773
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:22,120
Speaker 1: literally those fences could be a hundred feet off. So

1774
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 1: it's not just a matter if you hopping fences everywhere.

1775
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:29,719
Speaker 1: It would take some like educated doing to avoid conflict.

1776
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:32,080
Speaker 1: That was my last point I was gonna you made that.

1777
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:34,760
Speaker 1: It made me think of something that would create I

1778
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:38,960
Speaker 1: can create a little hyperbole out of this something. Uh

1779
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:41,479
Speaker 1: if you do this, you said, we'd go out there

1780
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 1: and survey every corner and we know right. Um. One

1781
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:49,599
Speaker 1: consequence of that is when you do when you just

1782
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,120
Speaker 1: described what you described of all of these fences running

1783
01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 1: in different places, like you may just open a can

1784
01:38:56,400 --> 01:39:00,400
Speaker 1: of worms on adverse possession claims and just pitt like

1785
01:39:00,479 --> 01:39:03,840
Speaker 1: just people fighting over like hey, you know what your

1786
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:10,400
Speaker 1: neighbor is grazing section, Like you start doing that and

1787
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:14,439
Speaker 1: find out where these corners actually are, like like just

1788
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:20,360
Speaker 1: can open worms everywhere across poem about the dudes building

1789
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,479
Speaker 1: the fence, it's called fence building or something. There's two

1790
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:25,960
Speaker 1: guys like did it come together every year and rebuild

1791
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:30,760
Speaker 1: the stone fence between their properties. People should revisit that

1792
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:34,720
Speaker 1: poem in the line he's like old stone. He like

1793
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 1: basically they're like friendly thing. And as you get into

1794
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:39,880
Speaker 1: the poem, it's like he he puts it like these

1795
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 1: old stone savages still out there, you know, wielding their

1796
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:49,640
Speaker 1: stone weapons. But yeah, fence building. Anyways, there could be

1797
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people who got over it a hundred

1798
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:55,960
Speaker 1: years ago, and then you'd reinvigorate the dispute. The only

1799
01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:58,640
Speaker 1: the very last thing I'd say is at least in

1800
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:00,599
Speaker 1: wy I mean, and I think Montana tried this two

1801
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:05,640
Speaker 1: years ago. Legislature actually tried to introduce a bill to

1802
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:13,880
Speaker 1: legalized formally legalized teen in Montana. Um both failed. Both

1803
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,719
Speaker 1: efforts failed. There was a reverse effort effort in Wyoming

1804
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:19,679
Speaker 1: at one point to formally ban it, to make it illegal.

1805
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: That also failed. So everybody's everybody's like, we don't don't

1806
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 1: really politically nobody wants to touch it. If that came back.

1807
01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 1: If that came back up now in this state, I

1808
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:31,960
Speaker 1: bet you could tip it the other direction because it

1809
01:40:32,040 --> 01:40:36,519
Speaker 1: was that voting like in the legislature was it wasn't

1810
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:39,080
Speaker 1: a ballot and ship not every state has access to that,

1811
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:41,760
Speaker 1: and even then it could be very problematic to pass

1812
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:43,800
Speaker 1: them through the ballot initiatives. You could tip it through

1813
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 1: public education because you have a lot of people who, um,

1814
01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 1: you have a lot of people who are deeply incentivized

1815
01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:57,120
Speaker 1: financially and otherwise that they want that land for themselves.

1816
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:01,080
Speaker 1: And I can imagine if something like that came up,

1817
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,559
Speaker 1: you'd have a lot of people who were felt like

1818
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:11,160
Speaker 1: acutely very personally threatened, and a lot of other people

1819
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 1: who were sort of vaguely supportive. But you're gonna have

1820
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:19,160
Speaker 1: people who are really gonna want to fight because they

1821
01:41:19,240 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 1: might be um basically running you know, outfitter businesses on

1822
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:27,640
Speaker 1: what would be public land because they no one can

1823
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:30,679
Speaker 1: get to it except them because they lease a joining parcel.

1824
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:32,720
Speaker 1: You're gonna have some people they're gonna fight tooth and

1825
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:35,720
Speaker 1: nail to block that, and you're gonna have a lot

1826
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:38,080
Speaker 1: of hunters who are just sort of like, oh, that'd

1827
01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:39,599
Speaker 1: be cool, like a corner hop, but I'm not gonna

1828
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:42,000
Speaker 1: get all involved. Yeah, and that's a hard thing to

1829
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:44,840
Speaker 1: do to write. You're you're talking about something that is

1830
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:49,280
Speaker 1: going to inherently put the hunting community against the landowner community,

1831
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:52,960
Speaker 1: where the hunting community in most of the country really

1832
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:55,840
Speaker 1: depends on the landowner community for accessing opportunity. And even

1833
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:57,400
Speaker 1: in the West where you have a lot of public land,

1834
01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:00,719
Speaker 1: still some of the best places can be on private

1835
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 1: lands too, and you depend on those relationships. And you're

1836
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:06,639
Speaker 1: you're talking about something that is some of the best places,

1837
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean the best place well yeah, yeah, right, And

1838
01:42:09,080 --> 01:42:12,559
Speaker 1: so you're it goes to that, You're I think there's

1839
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:16,800
Speaker 1: some political reluctance to do that because you're you're creating

1840
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 1: attention with those that you want to be natural allies.

1841
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 1: You want the lander community of the hunting community be

1842
01:42:22,280 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 1: on the same page with conservation and land owners to

1843
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:27,640
Speaker 1: be supportive of hunting and allow access an opportunity. And

1844
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 1: you could be putting this, you know, creating a situation.

1845
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:32,639
Speaker 1: I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying, there's

1846
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 1: that's why, that's why people are afraid. I think afraid

1847
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:39,920
Speaker 1: to afraid is not the right right word, but maybe

1848
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:42,800
Speaker 1: it is. It's there's a discomfort with taking on that

1849
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 1: issue at a legislative level. Oh, I feel I feel

1850
01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:48,439
Speaker 1: uncofortable talking about it. And the reason I feel uncomfortable

1851
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 1: talking about it um and I had and I have

1852
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:52,880
Speaker 1: to like psyche myself up to talk about it. The

1853
01:42:52,880 --> 01:42:55,320
Speaker 1: reason I feel uncomfortable talking about it is I have

1854
01:42:56,040 --> 01:43:01,360
Speaker 1: um cordial, very respectful relationships with a lot of landowners

1855
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:05,680
Speaker 1: who would look at that and probably feel threatened. And

1856
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:07,240
Speaker 1: so I'm like, man, I don't want to Like, I mean,

1857
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 1: that dude's a good dude. Let's it's on his place.

1858
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:10,599
Speaker 1: I don't want to piss them off by talking about it.

1859
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:13,040
Speaker 1: But I also feel like in terms of if I

1860
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:15,720
Speaker 1: have like an obligation to um, if I have an

1861
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:19,799
Speaker 1: obligation to my audience, it would be to um explain

1862
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: to them things that are that matter to them a lot.

1863
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 1: And and I feel like I have an obligation to

1864
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:28,640
Speaker 1: talk about it. But it's Thorny's ship. Yeah, I have

1865
01:43:28,680 --> 01:43:31,080
Speaker 1: a question, and I don't know that it directly relates

1866
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:34,000
Speaker 1: to this, but I noticed that on X, which we

1867
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:36,280
Speaker 1: use a lot of in Wisconsin, and I use it

1868
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:39,240
Speaker 1: in Michigan for hunting. Why is it that the on

1869
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:42,800
Speaker 1: X map, which I assume is very accurate up to

1870
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 1: a meter or less, shows that where the property lines were,

1871
01:43:48,360 --> 01:43:50,320
Speaker 1: they are no longer Because I noticed that some of

1872
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:53,640
Speaker 1: our property has expanded and on one of our neighbors

1873
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:55,880
Speaker 1: who used to have thought he had ten acres now

1874
01:43:55,960 --> 01:43:58,559
Speaker 1: has like seven point four acres. Yeah, so this is

1875
01:43:58,600 --> 01:44:04,280
Speaker 1: a so I mean that pre political world, Like I

1876
01:44:04,320 --> 01:44:06,800
Speaker 1: actually worked doing mapping work for U s c A,

1877
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:10,439
Speaker 1: n RCS for a long time and that's like my background.

1878
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:14,200
Speaker 1: And the reality is because on X isn't perfect, and

1879
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:15,720
Speaker 1: so when you look at on X, what you're looking

1880
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:17,479
Speaker 1: at is on X goes out when they get that

1881
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:20,639
Speaker 1: mapping information. They're collecting that mapping information from a host

1882
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 1: of different entities, people, counties, federal agencies. And what ONYX

1883
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:28,480
Speaker 1: did that's magical is they're putting it all on one database.

1884
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:30,479
Speaker 1: So you can pull it all from one database. But

1885
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:32,000
Speaker 1: you can't. And this is the other problem. You can

1886
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:35,599
Speaker 1: assume that that database is right because it isn't. So

1887
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 1: it's not reliable. It's not foot I'm putting my left

1888
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:45,000
Speaker 1: foot on public in my right foot is not. So

1889
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 1: that's what people to think that that's the issue is

1890
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:49,880
Speaker 1: it has to do with the accuracy level of the mapping.

1891
01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:52,080
Speaker 1: And that's the other problem with this is because even

1892
01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 1: your phone, unless you have a like a base station

1893
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:58,840
Speaker 1: in a pickup truck that's kicking out sub you know,

1894
01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:03,160
Speaker 1: inch level accuracy, your phone is going to be off

1895
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 1: by a couple of meters. The guy who went out

1896
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:06,679
Speaker 1: did the map may have been off by a couple

1897
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:08,880
Speaker 1: of meters. So it's not just the map, right, I mean,

1898
01:45:08,880 --> 01:45:11,800
Speaker 1: it's the map could be totally accurate, map could be

1899
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:13,840
Speaker 1: a hundred like make this assumption. The map could be

1900
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:17,840
Speaker 1: a d accurate, but the satellites aren't. Ye. The satellites

1901
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:20,960
Speaker 1: telling you where you are on that map might be

1902
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:24,719
Speaker 1: within a meter whenever you look at the six inches

1903
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:27,479
Speaker 1: you need to be. Every map is an abstraction of reality,

1904
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:29,720
Speaker 1: right though the Earth is a circle with hills and

1905
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:31,679
Speaker 1: everything else like that on and you're getting a different

1906
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:34,599
Speaker 1: called a projection of that. Every time you're you're looking

1907
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:37,720
Speaker 1: at a map, you're looking at a false representation of

1908
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:39,880
Speaker 1: what it really exists in reality. And that's why this

1909
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:42,559
Speaker 1: gets to like all these infinitely, like you just can't

1910
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:46,719
Speaker 1: be perfect, and that's why you've got to really watch yourself.

1911
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:47,920
Speaker 1: You can't just be like, oh, yeah, I've got this

1912
01:45:47,960 --> 01:45:50,080
Speaker 1: handheld unit now, so I must be fine. So you

1913
01:45:50,120 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 1: tell the game warden, I'm okay to be here. I've

1914
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:58,840
Speaker 1: got my GPS unit. You can't do that because how depends.

1915
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:04,280
Speaker 1: So that's the next question. We're actually corner pretty act,

1916
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:09,920
Speaker 1: they're pretty good. Everything's gonna everything has. Any landownership claim

1917
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:11,760
Speaker 1: is going to default to something. So if it's like

1918
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 1: survey and you put a corner pin, there has been

1919
01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:16,320
Speaker 1: like a baseline understanding which you can stop arguing when

1920
01:46:16,320 --> 01:46:19,680
Speaker 1: your legal descriptions are based on a professional survey. Like

1921
01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:21,599
Speaker 1: the legal descriptions that you put in the contracts when

1922
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:23,320
Speaker 1: you sell a piece of property are based on the

1923
01:46:23,320 --> 01:46:24,960
Speaker 1: surveys that are done out in the pin that's stuck

1924
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:26,840
Speaker 1: in the ground and the projection that that pin was

1925
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:29,080
Speaker 1: basing all in there, and so it's all part of

1926
01:46:29,160 --> 01:46:30,680
Speaker 1: legal d The problem is, like when you get it

1927
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:33,280
Speaker 1: on your phone, you're not often working in the same project.

1928
01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:36,240
Speaker 1: You're not. It's just an assumption. We'll have to realize

1929
01:46:36,240 --> 01:46:40,080
Speaker 1: that in this world where we think everything is your fingertips.

1930
01:46:40,160 --> 01:46:43,240
Speaker 1: It's not as cut and dried as you appreciate that answer,

1931
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:45,880
Speaker 1: because that's always puzzled me. And I didn't know what

1932
01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:48,519
Speaker 1: to tell the neighbor. I said, well, you just lost it,

1933
01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:54,840
Speaker 1: you know on fence thing. Uh, we're recently out on

1934
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:56,880
Speaker 1: the place a rancher, I know when he's got I

1935
01:46:56,920 --> 01:47:00,439
Speaker 1: know he had two fences with his boundary with the neighbor.

1936
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:03,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's like six ft apart for long

1937
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 1: ass ways. And I later said to him, Uh, what's

1938
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:10,880
Speaker 1: what's up with you in your neighbor having the double fence?

1939
01:47:12,160 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: This is a trivia question. Why do you think they

1940
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:16,320
Speaker 1: got a double defence? It was because of the Eastman

1941
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:18,719
Speaker 1: or because they could drive cattle on mortar more easily,

1942
01:47:21,320 --> 01:47:27,400
Speaker 1: bulls breeding cows through the fence. Oh well, and they

1943
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:31,360
Speaker 1: needed six ft of space. I didn't know. I didn't

1944
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:32,519
Speaker 1: go over there and measure it, but I was like,

1945
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 1: why do you guys have Like did you like each

1946
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:36,160
Speaker 1: put your own? Like what what's up with that? And

1947
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:38,680
Speaker 1: he goes, oh, no, it was an issue with they

1948
01:47:38,720 --> 01:47:41,320
Speaker 1: were putting whatever and I had I traditionally ran my

1949
01:47:41,479 --> 01:47:43,240
Speaker 1: one or the other, like I ran my bulls and

1950
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:45,599
Speaker 1: they had something going on over there, and blah blah blah,

1951
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:47,439
Speaker 1: and they just put a buffer there to reduce some

1952
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:52,559
Speaker 1: of the tensions, the tensions between the herds like neighbors

1953
01:47:52,640 --> 01:48:06,120
Speaker 1: right there. All right, if I break down this, there's

1954
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:08,280
Speaker 1: we started with a sad story where people are in trouble.

1955
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 1: Now we'll start Now we'll move to a happy access story. Access. Hey,

1956
01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:15,519
Speaker 1: you know what, hunter's access is the number one the

1957
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:17,960
Speaker 1: number one thing and petty impeding people from participating in

1958
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:21,240
Speaker 1: hunting or the shooting sports is access even shooting sports,

1959
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:23,760
Speaker 1: nowhere to shoot, Yes, nowhere to shoot. So you don't

1960
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:25,880
Speaker 1: have access to either the expertise, you don't have somebody

1961
01:48:25,880 --> 01:48:29,240
Speaker 1: to teach you to do it right. That's a huge impediment.

1962
01:48:29,479 --> 01:48:31,960
Speaker 1: You don't have access to a community to be involved in.

1963
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 1: That leads people to leave it. So you may, you know,

1964
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:38,000
Speaker 1: live in a community like you're you're the guy outside.

1965
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:42,000
Speaker 1: Nobody likes you anymore. Um. Access is access to ranges,

1966
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:47,120
Speaker 1: access to ammunition, access to you know all that stuff.

1967
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, in Utah, kind of a good access story. Um,

1968
01:48:50,520 --> 01:48:54,280
Speaker 1: same guy that we worked with to do the US

1969
01:48:54,439 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 1: right to hunt fish, he also Casey Snyder last year

1970
01:48:57,280 --> 01:49:02,360
Speaker 1: did a random bill to um make it illegal debate

1971
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:07,120
Speaker 1: big game animals on public lands. Awesome, Billy, Yep, he

1972
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:10,439
Speaker 1: crushed it, and he had lots of support from a

1973
01:49:10,520 --> 01:49:14,960
Speaker 1: variety of public lands. So in Utah until last year,

1974
01:49:14,960 --> 01:49:16,719
Speaker 1: it was legally you could take a box of apples.

1975
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:18,360
Speaker 1: You could throw it on the ground in the middle

1976
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:20,360
Speaker 1: of the sage brush in Utah, you could set a

1977
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:22,360
Speaker 1: trail camera over at the talk to your cell phone.

1978
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:24,760
Speaker 1: You could sit there and wait for animals to show

1979
01:49:24,840 --> 01:49:26,960
Speaker 1: up at that bait site and then go out and

1980
01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 1: shoot the animal this is a mule deer or a

1981
01:49:29,479 --> 01:49:32,439
Speaker 1: trophy elk. And at the same time you could also

1982
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:36,120
Speaker 1: sell that location information and so trade. You know. Casey,

1983
01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:38,920
Speaker 1: to his credit, took on a lot of you know,

1984
01:49:39,000 --> 01:49:42,160
Speaker 1: a lot of flak and interest. No, dude, he is

1985
01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:44,799
Speaker 1: he is a he's the man. He's a real champion

1986
01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:46,760
Speaker 1: those issues. Well, he also took on in Utah this

1987
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 1: eight thousand acres. So the use of state lands is

1988
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 1: a big issue. You know, are they public lands? Aren't

1989
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 1: they in a variety of states, And in Utah they

1990
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:57,400
Speaker 1: faced a lot of challenges there and they had a

1991
01:49:58,240 --> 01:50:01,120
Speaker 1: eight thousand acres in the Cinnamon Cree Drange is what

1992
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:03,200
Speaker 1: it was called, and it's one of the few real

1993
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:07,719
Speaker 1: public accessible areas in northern Utah. It's in Casey's district.

1994
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:11,479
Speaker 1: Was going up for at least sale and quota, and

1995
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:13,840
Speaker 1: Casey was able to put together a to work with

1996
01:50:13,880 --> 01:50:15,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of other people, including the Department of Natural

1997
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:20,320
Speaker 1: Resources there in Utah, to um win that lease so

1998
01:50:20,360 --> 01:50:24,000
Speaker 1: that eight thousand acres now will be a wildlife management

1999
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:26,800
Speaker 1: unit that where people can where the public can go hunt.

2000
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:28,360
Speaker 1: When you say at least how long is the lease,

2001
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:31,760
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that question. I'd be speculating. Uh,

2002
01:50:31,760 --> 01:50:35,599
Speaker 1: it's you know, so I'm not going to but they're

2003
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:37,760
Speaker 1: still working on the issues. It's you know, so for

2004
01:50:37,800 --> 01:50:39,479
Speaker 1: people who live in Utah and who are interested in

2005
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:42,679
Speaker 1: these issues, they need your support at the legislative level.

2006
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:44,600
Speaker 1: And so this is a pitch is a lobbyist, and

2007
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a lot to people, which is, if

2008
01:50:47,080 --> 01:50:51,360
Speaker 1: these are issues you care about, respectfully, call your legislators

2009
01:50:51,400 --> 01:50:55,160
Speaker 1: and talk with them respectfully about these issues, because you know,

2010
01:50:55,240 --> 01:50:58,280
Speaker 1: nothing poisons your issues more than calling and yelling at somebody,

2011
01:50:58,280 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 1: and nothing helps them better than hearing that you have

2012
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 1: actually care and you know that they're a real person

2013
01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:06,799
Speaker 1: and for in this case that you know as cases

2014
01:51:06,800 --> 01:51:09,280
Speaker 1: putting together the stuff to you know, carry this through

2015
01:51:09,400 --> 01:51:13,240
Speaker 1: the legislature in the spring, you know, call your legislators

2016
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:15,759
Speaker 1: and tell them to support you know, that effort, support

2017
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:18,960
Speaker 1: those bills. Here's who all kicked in significant funding meal

2018
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:22,599
Speaker 1: to your foundation, Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife, Rocky Mountain,

2019
01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:27,240
Speaker 1: Elk Foundation, Nature Conservancy, State of Utah, and US Fish

2020
01:51:27,240 --> 01:51:37,479
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service. Pretty cool. So if you live in Utah, congratulations. Yes,

2021
01:51:38,920 --> 01:51:43,400
Speaker 1: all right, okay, here's one for you. I don't know

2022
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:45,120
Speaker 1: if you want to answer this as your job or

2023
01:51:45,120 --> 01:51:48,479
Speaker 1: answered as you well, so we'll see what it is

2024
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:50,560
Speaker 1: first and then we'll later on I'll tell you what

2025
01:51:50,640 --> 01:51:52,040
Speaker 1: you want it was after I get in trouble for

2026
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:55,880
Speaker 1: it or don't. Yeah, so next next week I'll be like, oh,

2027
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:58,599
Speaker 1: by the way, that was ni Fi. Yeah, has nothing

2028
01:51:58,640 --> 01:52:02,240
Speaker 1: to do In fact, it wasn't. It was some other guy,

2029
01:52:02,360 --> 01:52:07,240
Speaker 1: some guy like them. Uh. What was your being into

2030
01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 1: the firearms industry um and working on policy and also

2031
01:52:11,439 --> 01:52:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, public opinion? What was your take on the

2032
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:23,720
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin movie set shooting? I mean it was stretched

2033
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:27,000
Speaker 1: in every imaginable What a terrible tragedy direct, I mean,

2034
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:29,400
Speaker 1: that's the most the thing to say, is what a

2035
01:52:29,479 --> 01:52:32,240
Speaker 1: terrible tragedy? Uh, none of us, I don't think sitting

2036
01:52:32,280 --> 01:52:35,760
Speaker 1: around this table certainly know all the details. I'm sure

2037
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:38,960
Speaker 1: that it's an ongoing legal issue with lots of stuff

2038
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:41,000
Speaker 1: going on there, and I think that everybody ought to

2039
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:42,880
Speaker 1: be able to just step back from that and say, like,

2040
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:47,519
Speaker 1: what a sad thing that changed a bunch of people's

2041
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:51,040
Speaker 1: lives permanently. And I think the best thing that you

2042
01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:54,439
Speaker 1: can possibly say about it is there are rules of

2043
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:59,519
Speaker 1: firearms safety, and if everybody obeys those rules, this doesn't happen.

2044
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:03,559
Speaker 1: And that's just reality, and you can just take that

2045
01:53:03,640 --> 01:53:07,000
Speaker 1: to the bank. You know, there's a level of education

2046
01:53:07,040 --> 01:53:09,479
Speaker 1: there and I'm not saying these you know everybody that

2047
01:53:09,600 --> 01:53:12,799
Speaker 1: was there was or was not educated. I have no idea,

2048
01:53:13,400 --> 01:53:17,000
Speaker 1: But what's the first rule of firearm safety? Every gun

2049
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:20,519
Speaker 1: is always loaded. You never point a firearm at anything

2050
01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:23,080
Speaker 1: you're not willing to destroy. You keep your finger off

2051
01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:26,200
Speaker 1: the trigger. You don't shoot unless you're sure of what

2052
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:28,400
Speaker 1: you're shooting at and what's beyond it. And so I

2053
01:53:28,439 --> 01:53:30,479
Speaker 1: think that rather, you know, if there's I can't say

2054
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:32,959
Speaker 1: anything about that situation because I don't know all the particulars,

2055
01:53:32,960 --> 01:53:35,400
Speaker 1: but I can say for everyone listening, for all of

2056
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:38,519
Speaker 1: us involved, no matter what we're doing with guns, obey

2057
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:40,720
Speaker 1: the safety rules. And this has been thing, you know,

2058
01:53:41,240 --> 01:53:43,800
Speaker 1: a big thing NSSF. You know, if if I could

2059
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:47,240
Speaker 1: brag about us just for a second, like safety issues

2060
01:53:47,240 --> 01:53:49,880
Speaker 1: are things that were huge on Project Child Safe Operations,

2061
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:53,680
Speaker 1: secure store, own it, secure it, respect that those are

2062
01:53:53,680 --> 01:53:55,680
Speaker 1: all these are all initiatives that we have where we

2063
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:58,679
Speaker 1: put big time work and money into trying to educate

2064
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:01,200
Speaker 1: people on firearms, safe be on safe stories, on all

2065
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:05,559
Speaker 1: these things because really, uh, we all ought to be

2066
01:54:05,560 --> 01:54:08,720
Speaker 1: able to play in this firearms space safely. And that's

2067
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:11,679
Speaker 1: we've demonstrated it since the nineteen fifties or furies, whatever

2068
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:13,120
Speaker 1: you said, Like you can see it in the rates

2069
01:54:13,160 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: of how we've gotten better at this and we can

2070
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:18,000
Speaker 1: continue to do that if we're all willing to just

2071
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, have a discussion about it, an educational discussion

2072
01:54:22,160 --> 01:54:25,640
Speaker 1: about it. It's you know, absent the political undertones, and

2073
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:29,000
Speaker 1: so you know, it's again super sad, and it's ought

2074
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:30,920
Speaker 1: to be an example to all of us to take

2075
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:33,200
Speaker 1: a look at what our everyday practices are and just

2076
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:41,760
Speaker 1: be better. I was surprised that that in those scenes

2077
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:47,400
Speaker 1: you're using functioning firearms, and even that the same firearm

2078
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:50,240
Speaker 1: might be used like for real and then later that

2079
01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:53,880
Speaker 1: day used as a prop. I you know, I can't

2080
01:54:53,680 --> 01:54:56,000
Speaker 1: And there are guys who are experts in the industry

2081
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 1: who have talked about this and have didn't articles about

2082
01:54:58,440 --> 01:55:01,920
Speaker 1: all that says naught. Yeah, and it is one of

2083
01:55:01,960 --> 01:55:05,160
Speaker 1: those things again, like you know, I'm not exactly sure

2084
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:08,000
Speaker 1: other than hearsay like exactly what happened on that set.

2085
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:11,880
Speaker 1: But I do know the industry honestly has best practices

2086
01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:15,880
Speaker 1: that mirror what we're talking about with the with the

2087
01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:20,080
Speaker 1: rules of firearms safety. They obeyed those rules in the industry,

2088
01:55:20,160 --> 01:55:22,200
Speaker 1: they obeyed best practices when you go to the right

2089
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:24,120
Speaker 1: sets with the right people. And so I don't think

2090
01:55:24,120 --> 01:55:25,440
Speaker 1: it would be fair. You know a lot of people

2091
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:27,240
Speaker 1: have been like, oh, they need to quit, they need

2092
01:55:27,240 --> 01:55:29,280
Speaker 1: to use cartoon guns and stuff like that now, And

2093
01:55:29,320 --> 01:55:31,720
Speaker 1: I just think, you know, I'm not enough and an

2094
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:35,360
Speaker 1: expert to say, uh, what everybody should or should not do.

2095
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:39,000
Speaker 1: But I can certainly say that you know, there's a

2096
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:41,520
Speaker 1: reason that you know, they have really good armors that

2097
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:44,960
Speaker 1: they have. You know, a lot of these movies like

2098
01:55:45,440 --> 01:55:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, dudes who are like former guys from you know,

2099
01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:52,600
Speaker 1: the highest and military, or they're doing on site making

2100
01:55:52,600 --> 01:55:55,680
Speaker 1: sure that people are following these rules, and so I

2101
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:58,320
Speaker 1: just think, like all of us just again, I'm not

2102
01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:01,080
Speaker 1: going to criticize you know, what happened there, but I'm

2103
01:56:01,080 --> 01:56:03,280
Speaker 1: going to say, like it's for me, I have to

2104
01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:06,640
Speaker 1: think about, Okay, how do I work with the firearms

2105
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:08,960
Speaker 1: that are in my safe, around my kids, around my friends,

2106
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:10,680
Speaker 1: around my job, around the things that I'm doing, and

2107
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:12,440
Speaker 1: just make sure that I'm doing the best practices that

2108
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:14,560
Speaker 1: I can when I'm doing that. There was a lot

2109
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:17,520
Speaker 1: of turmoil on that movie set aside from the day

2110
01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:19,960
Speaker 1: like there are walk offs and in the days before,

2111
01:56:20,120 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 1: like corners are being cut everywhere. It was just a

2112
01:56:22,760 --> 01:56:25,600
Speaker 1: horrible commation of things that came together in that one moment.

2113
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:29,480
Speaker 1: But Steve that what you said, how you know guns

2114
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:32,760
Speaker 1: are used for you know, shooting real bullets with like

2115
01:56:32,840 --> 01:56:35,520
Speaker 1: casings and powder and actual projectiles are then brought to

2116
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:37,839
Speaker 1: a movie set to be loaded with blanks, and somehow

2117
01:56:37,840 --> 01:56:40,000
Speaker 1: there was a live round with a casing and a

2118
01:56:40,080 --> 01:56:44,600
Speaker 1: bullet and powder in there. I that's that's how. I

2119
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:48,000
Speaker 1: don't understand how that happened at all, it seems because

2120
01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:50,720
Speaker 1: normally they use blanks with with you know, a casing

2121
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:54,960
Speaker 1: and powder that but no projectile and I I've used

2122
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:58,920
Speaker 1: those on in movies and plays before. Well, reading about that,

2123
01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:02,440
Speaker 1: there's like a roll in tray that had AMMO plus

2124
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:07,440
Speaker 1: unidentified AMMO, loose AMMO and a Fannie pack in the

2125
01:57:07,720 --> 01:57:11,160
Speaker 1: just like no. I mean some people know now because

2126
01:57:11,160 --> 01:57:12,760
Speaker 1: they're investigating it, Like I don't want to come in

2127
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:14,200
Speaker 1: and like comment like this, that and there, I think,

2128
01:57:14,280 --> 01:57:19,440
Speaker 1: but the impression one gets from reading about it from

2129
01:57:19,440 --> 01:57:22,920
Speaker 1: a law enforcement perspective, there were plenty of reasons to

2130
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:27,520
Speaker 1: come in and say no harm it what like that

2131
01:57:27,560 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 1: seemed to be kind of them. From the people that

2132
01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:33,360
Speaker 1: I saw speak about it, We're like, it's very hard

2133
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:37,320
Speaker 1: to untangle what exactly was going on here and with

2134
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:39,960
Speaker 1: what was being used, how it was being managed, a

2135
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:43,560
Speaker 1: lot of questions. But I have like two things. One

2136
01:57:43,800 --> 01:57:47,600
Speaker 1: I felt that I had some commentary on two ways

2137
01:57:47,600 --> 01:57:53,560
Speaker 1: it was received. I think that maybe we're at a

2138
01:57:53,600 --> 01:57:56,080
Speaker 1: safe distance now. I was alarmed by the way in

2139
01:57:56,160 --> 01:58:02,560
Speaker 1: which the victim, someone would like a mother and husband

2140
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:06,280
Speaker 1: died who had nothing to do in any of this

2141
01:58:06,280 --> 01:58:10,840
Speaker 1: ship right, are you talking about the cinematographer, Yeah, the

2142
01:58:11,120 --> 01:58:14,680
Speaker 1: director guy hit in the shoulder. He survived though, well okay, yeah,

2143
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:18,879
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying he a mother like young children

2144
01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:21,360
Speaker 1: was killed. So it's like to me in a way

2145
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:25,240
Speaker 1: when when everyone when it became so politicized, I looked

2146
01:58:25,240 --> 01:58:28,360
Speaker 1: at it and I kept thinking like, man, this there

2147
01:58:28,440 --> 01:58:31,440
Speaker 1: is not enough space. The way it was being utilized

2148
01:58:31,480 --> 01:58:35,520
Speaker 1: and weaponized. I felt people weren't taken the time to think, like,

2149
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:38,880
Speaker 1: here's a person like at work for a paycheck who

2150
01:58:38,920 --> 01:58:42,920
Speaker 1: has young children who just died, and I don't know

2151
01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:45,880
Speaker 1: what her opinions are about any of this, but that

2152
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:49,120
Speaker 1: needs to be paid attention to. Um. The other thing

2153
01:58:49,200 --> 01:58:51,920
Speaker 1: is I found on the other side of stuff? Is it?

2154
01:58:52,200 --> 01:58:54,000
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people had a lot of

2155
01:58:54,000 --> 01:58:57,600
Speaker 1: people who were struggling with why all this this from

2156
01:58:57,720 --> 01:59:00,800
Speaker 1: from the gun rights community, Why all this kind of

2157
01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, vehemency toward uh Alec Baldwin or towards the industry.

2158
01:59:06,640 --> 01:59:09,280
Speaker 1: It would be a little bit like I kind of like,

2159
01:59:09,320 --> 01:59:12,839
Speaker 1: in some ways like demonstrated hypocrisy where you have someone

2160
01:59:13,360 --> 01:59:16,000
Speaker 1: who questions, why why is anybody need these guns? Anyways?

2161
01:59:16,080 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, unless they're making a movie, then it's cool, right,

2162
01:59:22,160 --> 01:59:24,280
Speaker 1: but then you would have one for something else is ridicular,

2163
01:59:24,280 --> 01:59:25,920
Speaker 1: You don't people don't need those things? Why do they

2164
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:28,280
Speaker 1: need these things? But oh but no, I'm I'm a

2165
01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:31,800
Speaker 1: movie maker. It's it's fine for us, storyteller. That's good

2166
01:59:31,800 --> 01:59:35,680
Speaker 1: for us. People. We gottam laying out. We got somebody

2167
01:59:35,760 --> 01:59:40,520
Speaker 1: laying around. We don't know what the hell they are. No, no, no, no, no.

2168
01:59:41,880 --> 01:59:43,760
Speaker 1: That was a little I think that's where a lot

2169
01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:48,000
Speaker 1: of that just that's where a lot of that frustration

2170
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:50,080
Speaker 1: came from. Was sort of there's that's kind of like

2171
01:59:50,120 --> 01:59:53,680
Speaker 1: glaring hypocrisy, which in people don't like there couldn't have

2172
01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:56,280
Speaker 1: been an easier target than Alec Baldwin either, like couldn't

2173
01:59:56,320 --> 01:59:58,840
Speaker 1: have been like a more so it's like for both

2174
01:59:58,920 --> 02:00:01,680
Speaker 1: both sides, it was just in insanity. Yeah, setting setting

2175
02:00:02,040 --> 02:00:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, that specific situation aside, like hey, teach your

2176
02:00:06,360 --> 02:00:08,960
Speaker 1: kids firearm safety, you know, don't don't hide from that,

2177
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:11,800
Speaker 1: you know, take the opportunity to not just and you

2178
02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:13,600
Speaker 1: should be you know if you've got young kids in

2179
02:00:13,600 --> 02:00:18,000
Speaker 1: the home, you know, get a safe and if but

2180
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:22,360
Speaker 1: also teach them firearms safety, you know, talk about these

2181
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:26,360
Speaker 1: things and have a real discussion because um, not a

2182
02:00:26,360 --> 02:00:28,280
Speaker 1: lot of people in the world today want to do that.

2183
02:00:28,320 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 1: You know, these you know, guns are tabboo. We're not

2184
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:32,000
Speaker 1: going to talk about guns. You know, we're not gonna

2185
02:00:32,040 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 1: deal with that. And like, the more we can do

2186
02:00:34,080 --> 02:00:38,160
Speaker 1: to like have you know, conversations that are intelligent about

2187
02:00:38,360 --> 02:00:42,120
Speaker 1: firearms and firearms safety, like we're just every day we

2188
02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:44,360
Speaker 1: do that, we live in a better country. I just

2189
02:00:44,400 --> 02:00:48,440
Speaker 1: finished a book like it's done done now about kids.

2190
02:00:48,480 --> 02:00:52,960
Speaker 1: Like it's called Outdoor Kids, Inside World, So it's about

2191
02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:59,560
Speaker 1: raising outdoor kids. And in the hunting section, I'll talk about, um,

2192
02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:03,120
Speaker 1: how you communicate about guns with kids. And one of

2193
02:01:03,160 --> 02:01:06,480
Speaker 1: the things that uh, I've just really strive to do

2194
02:01:07,200 --> 02:01:09,440
Speaker 1: is we have never taken the attitude that these are

2195
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:14,400
Speaker 1: that that guns are like these magical things. Right, They're

2196
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:17,480
Speaker 1: they're not capable of magical acts. It's like it's a

2197
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:20,400
Speaker 1: thing you can understand very well, and we're gonna talk

2198
02:01:20,400 --> 02:01:23,600
Speaker 1: about how they function, how you handle them safe. We're

2199
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:26,560
Speaker 1: not going to create like they're not fetishized. They're not

2200
02:01:27,400 --> 02:01:31,400
Speaker 1: attributed with magical powers. If you look at them wrong,

2201
02:01:31,880 --> 02:01:36,560
Speaker 1: something will happen. It's like like a functional, practical understanding

2202
02:01:36,680 --> 02:01:39,680
Speaker 1: of what it is, what's safe, what's not safe. How

2203
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:41,960
Speaker 1: it would be that you would hurt someone with one,

2204
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:44,880
Speaker 1: and talk about in a very realistic sense. Yeah, my

2205
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:46,640
Speaker 1: I have an eight year old and eleven year old,

2206
02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:51,320
Speaker 1: both little boys, and both you know, have been to

2207
02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:53,560
Speaker 1: the range so many times I can't even count, and

2208
02:01:53,920 --> 02:01:55,720
Speaker 1: have been. You know, my eleven year old now has

2209
02:01:55,720 --> 02:02:02,040
Speaker 1: gone on his first hunts, and you know, like those kids,

2210
02:02:02,080 --> 02:02:05,120
Speaker 1: like they know, and so it makes it much easier

2211
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:09,440
Speaker 1: because they've got that familiarity and they've seen what a

2212
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:12,600
Speaker 1: firearm can do, and so this, you know, they know

2213
02:02:13,320 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 1: when they go to somebody's house, like it's much easier.

2214
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:17,840
Speaker 1: They've had those conversations. They know why they're supposed to

2215
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:20,240
Speaker 1: walk away, they know why they why these things aren't toys,

2216
02:02:20,240 --> 02:02:22,040
Speaker 1: they know why they call grown ups. They know all

2217
02:02:22,080 --> 02:02:24,520
Speaker 1: those things, And I just think those are healthy conversations

2218
02:02:24,520 --> 02:02:27,280
Speaker 1: to have. They shouldn't be we shouldn't hide from them. Okay,

2219
02:02:27,320 --> 02:02:29,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna do uh, We're gonna jump into some quick

2220
02:02:29,520 --> 02:02:32,360
Speaker 1: hitter stuff. Not everything we're gonna bring up as quick

2221
02:02:32,400 --> 02:02:36,640
Speaker 1: hitters is as important and warrants as much discussion as

2222
02:02:36,680 --> 02:02:38,560
Speaker 1: we've already done anyway. But just an interest of time,

2223
02:02:38,600 --> 02:02:40,440
Speaker 1: I want to do some quick hitter stuff. I'm gonna

2224
02:02:40,440 --> 02:02:43,080
Speaker 1: bounce some more ears to the other. There'll be contests

2225
02:02:43,080 --> 02:02:50,240
Speaker 1: who can do it quick as hit ni fi? What? Why?

2226
02:02:50,240 --> 02:02:56,600
Speaker 1: Why is there no AMMO? Yeah? Is a giant? Is

2227
02:02:56,600 --> 02:03:00,280
Speaker 1: it a vast conspiracy? Twelve million people bought fire arms

2228
02:03:00,320 --> 02:03:02,440
Speaker 1: for the first time since the beginning of that have

2229
02:03:02,520 --> 02:03:04,720
Speaker 1: never owned a gun before in their entire lives. They

2230
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:07,240
Speaker 1: tend to train more than people who traditionally owned guns.

2231
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:10,240
Speaker 1: And if those twelve million people each bought a box

2232
02:03:10,280 --> 02:03:12,400
Speaker 1: with a hundred rounds of ammunition, and that's a billion

2233
02:03:12,640 --> 02:03:15,600
Speaker 1: new rounds of ammunition in demand on the market in

2234
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:18,240
Speaker 1: the last two years that didn't exist before. The reason

2235
02:03:18,240 --> 02:03:22,600
Speaker 1: you can't find AMMO is because America changed significantly in

2236
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:25,920
Speaker 1: the last two years, and the and the people that

2237
02:03:25,960 --> 02:03:31,200
Speaker 1: bought those guns were increasing minorities, women, they were Republicans,

2238
02:03:31,240 --> 02:03:35,720
Speaker 1: they were Democrats, and it's changed, and it's taken the

2239
02:03:35,720 --> 02:03:38,400
Speaker 1: company's time to be able to to to ratchet up

2240
02:03:38,400 --> 02:03:41,280
Speaker 1: to match to match the demand. That was phenomenal. I'm

2241
02:03:41,320 --> 02:03:43,400
Speaker 1: gonna get you another quick hit, okay, but I have

2242
02:03:43,440 --> 02:03:52,600
Speaker 1: a question on that. How many people buy six at

2243
02:03:52,680 --> 02:03:56,240
Speaker 1: least look at looking around the table, because here's here's

2244
02:03:56,240 --> 02:03:58,600
Speaker 1: what's been explaining. Let me do, let me try, and

2245
02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:00,280
Speaker 1: then you tell me where I'm right and wrong. This

2246
02:04:00,320 --> 02:04:03,400
Speaker 1: doesn't kind of gets my time, do you don't? Ammunition

2247
02:04:03,480 --> 02:04:08,840
Speaker 1: manufacturer needs to tool up and they run runs of

2248
02:04:08,880 --> 02:04:14,240
Speaker 1: certain loads and calibers, calibers and there's like huge demand

2249
02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:17,440
Speaker 1: and huge deficits and certain things, and so they're running

2250
02:04:17,760 --> 02:04:20,520
Speaker 1: those things that have the greatest need from the greatest

2251
02:04:20,560 --> 02:04:23,480
Speaker 1: amount of retailers. People are clamoring for it, and it

2252
02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:26,280
Speaker 1: makes it that you don't have the luxury of stopping

2253
02:04:26,440 --> 02:04:28,760
Speaker 1: to tool up for what might be regarded as a

2254
02:04:28,760 --> 02:04:31,240
Speaker 1: more esoteric round. How is that very good? If you

2255
02:04:31,240 --> 02:04:34,680
Speaker 1: want to know what guns Americans own, look at the

2256
02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:38,080
Speaker 1: shelf and the ammal you can see back on the shelf.

2257
02:04:38,120 --> 02:04:40,400
Speaker 1: That's what guns Americans is, not what they don't own.

2258
02:04:40,600 --> 02:04:41,960
Speaker 1: You want to look like, why is no one by?

2259
02:04:42,080 --> 02:04:45,240
Speaker 1: Why why can't I find Wheeland? Nobody has a thirty

2260
02:04:45,480 --> 02:04:47,280
Speaker 1: six anymore? I haven't been I haven't seen one of

2261
02:04:47,280 --> 02:04:49,480
Speaker 1: those on the shelves, And like, my kid just took

2262
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:52,760
Speaker 1: possession one on Friday. You guys grainy ammo to use

2263
02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:56,400
Speaker 1: with it. We're worried about that, but he's got some

2264
02:04:57,080 --> 02:05:02,640
Speaker 1: um okay uh the next one, Dave, Oh, I had

2265
02:05:02,680 --> 02:05:05,480
Speaker 1: a like a second second, well, I had kind of

2266
02:05:05,520 --> 02:05:09,280
Speaker 1: another quick hitter. Am a quick hitter thing. Never mind,

2267
02:05:09,280 --> 02:05:12,720
Speaker 1: it's too it's too well, Okay, you open up around.

2268
02:05:12,760 --> 02:05:15,320
Speaker 1: Is there a worry that if they do all the

2269
02:05:15,360 --> 02:05:18,120
Speaker 1: steps to ramp up production that the market will drop

2270
02:05:18,120 --> 02:05:20,080
Speaker 1: out and they'll be left like with this new facility

2271
02:05:20,080 --> 02:05:23,840
Speaker 1: that's half finished. I can't answer that question. I think

2272
02:05:24,040 --> 02:05:27,480
Speaker 1: yes and no, Like they're there. They are ratcheting, get up,

2273
02:05:27,600 --> 02:05:29,520
Speaker 1: but there like is this for real enough? Or we'd

2274
02:05:29,520 --> 02:05:31,440
Speaker 1: go and build a new plant. Yeah, but you know,

2275
02:05:32,160 --> 02:05:34,120
Speaker 1: but I can tell you that they are building the

2276
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:40,960
Speaker 1: new plants, Dave. Uh, big infrastructure bill. Everybody fighting about it,

2277
02:05:41,080 --> 02:05:43,120
Speaker 1: getting mad at each other. They won't vote it if

2278
02:05:43,160 --> 02:05:44,760
Speaker 1: they can't vote for this, and they won't vote if

2279
02:05:44,760 --> 02:05:47,160
Speaker 1: they can't vote for that. But in the end, the

2280
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:51,640
Speaker 1: infrastructure bill, I gather people in the conservation world had

2281
02:05:51,720 --> 02:05:57,160
Speaker 1: some cause for enthusiasm and excitement about the infrastructure bill.

2282
02:05:58,320 --> 02:06:02,360
Speaker 1: Wildlife enthusiasts they did. Why, uh, well, this is a

2283
02:06:02,440 --> 02:06:06,600
Speaker 1: quick hitter, right, So not to say that these aren't

2284
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:08,760
Speaker 1: rich issues, but just in the interest of time, yeah,

2285
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:12,040
Speaker 1: uh so their biggest things. So this passed, right, be

2286
02:06:12,120 --> 02:06:15,520
Speaker 1: clear that the infrastructure Bill was bipartisan and it passed

2287
02:06:16,040 --> 02:06:20,800
Speaker 1: UH in November, sometime in November, right, so it's it's done,

2288
02:06:20,920 --> 02:06:23,400
Speaker 1: it's happening. One of the biggest things in there is

2289
02:06:23,440 --> 02:06:28,880
Speaker 1: it created a grant program million dollar uh federal grant

2290
02:06:28,880 --> 02:06:33,040
Speaker 1: program for wildlife crossings, so competitive grant program around the country.

2291
02:06:33,200 --> 02:06:35,920
Speaker 1: States can use too. You know. So many states have

2292
02:06:35,960 --> 02:06:40,360
Speaker 1: been identifying places of get us like three crossings. Well

2293
02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:43,480
Speaker 1: so a crossing, so crossings can be underpasses, overpasses, and

2294
02:06:43,520 --> 02:06:46,080
Speaker 1: I believe overpasses are in that twelve to thirteen million

2295
02:06:46,120 --> 02:06:49,240
Speaker 1: dollar range apiece roughly now, so it actually gets you

2296
02:06:49,360 --> 02:06:52,280
Speaker 1: quite a lot um. Some overpasses cost a lot more.

2297
02:06:52,320 --> 02:06:56,200
Speaker 1: There's one that we're working on organizationally in California in

2298
02:06:56,200 --> 02:07:01,000
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles area, uh, for mountain lions actually, because

2299
02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:04,560
Speaker 1: there's this urban lion population. Calan's favorite subject, right, they

2300
02:07:04,640 --> 02:07:08,280
Speaker 1: get smacked by vehicles there. So fundraising for that right now.

2301
02:07:08,760 --> 02:07:12,160
Speaker 1: But but this will create resources for projects all over

2302
02:07:12,200 --> 02:07:15,560
Speaker 1: the country. UH. There's also a lot of of money

2303
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:19,880
Speaker 1: available for forest restoration projects. So think about cheat grass

2304
02:07:20,160 --> 02:07:25,000
Speaker 1: and forest grassland UM sage brush, right, so cheat grass mitigation,

2305
02:07:25,600 --> 02:07:30,320
Speaker 1: UH forest uh you know, fire mitigation and things like that.

2306
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:34,200
Speaker 1: A lot of money for that. UM there are there

2307
02:07:34,200 --> 02:07:38,080
Speaker 1: were things like UH force Legacy Road program funded. So

2308
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:42,520
Speaker 1: there's money now to maintain forest roads, you know, some

2309
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:44,600
Speaker 1: of the two track inventory roads that are out there.

2310
02:07:44,640 --> 02:07:49,280
Speaker 1: There's also money to decommission roads and restore that habitat.

2311
02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:53,640
Speaker 1: There's also money for culverts. And you don't think you think, well, culverts,

2312
02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:56,840
Speaker 1: what does that do well? Creating fish habitat and and

2313
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:59,360
Speaker 1: helping fish movement. There's millions of dollars in there for

2314
02:07:59,600 --> 02:08:03,760
Speaker 1: culvert removal and replacement to allow in its particularly targeting

2315
02:08:04,240 --> 02:08:08,879
Speaker 1: fish movement UH too for largely for threatening endangered species

2316
02:08:09,080 --> 02:08:12,680
Speaker 1: fish species that have had their uh their movement cut off,

2317
02:08:12,680 --> 02:08:15,760
Speaker 1: but also for other UH species of fish as well

2318
02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:18,680
Speaker 1: game species that we might like to catch. Right that

2319
02:08:18,680 --> 02:08:21,560
Speaker 1: that that program is there for. So there's there's just

2320
02:08:22,120 --> 02:08:23,800
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of stuff that's as quick as I

2321
02:08:23,800 --> 02:08:26,520
Speaker 1: can be without going into lots of details, but there

2322
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:28,520
Speaker 1: there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in

2323
02:08:28,560 --> 02:08:31,600
Speaker 1: the infrastructure package that go back directly to projects on

2324
02:08:31,640 --> 02:08:36,600
Speaker 1: the ground that will benefit uh, wildlife habitat and opportunities

2325
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:38,640
Speaker 1: for hunters and anglers. Yeah, the next time you're sitting

2326
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:41,520
Speaker 1: there making blanket statements about how terrible lobbyists are, keep

2327
02:08:41,560 --> 02:08:45,440
Speaker 1: in mind that when they were debating that bill, wildlife

2328
02:08:45,440 --> 02:08:48,480
Speaker 1: people were in the room saying, I understand, you need

2329
02:08:48,520 --> 02:08:50,960
Speaker 1: to cut a bunch of stuff out, but here's why

2330
02:08:51,000 --> 02:08:53,880
Speaker 1: you can't cut out the fish and wildlife stuff. Don't

2331
02:08:53,960 --> 02:08:56,560
Speaker 1: touch the fish and wildlife stuff. This is why it's important.

2332
02:08:56,760 --> 02:08:59,360
Speaker 1: If not if no one was putting a bag in

2333
02:08:59,400 --> 02:09:01,920
Speaker 1: their ear, they would have acted it. They would have

2334
02:09:01,920 --> 02:09:05,400
Speaker 1: acted and in favor of whoever was putting a bug

2335
02:09:05,400 --> 02:09:07,360
Speaker 1: in their ear about some other aspect that they cared about.

2336
02:09:07,640 --> 02:09:09,480
Speaker 1: And it was a lot of bugs in a lot

2337
02:09:09,520 --> 02:09:11,480
Speaker 1: of ears, right, I mean it was. It was the

2338
02:09:11,640 --> 02:09:15,000
Speaker 1: entire not just the hunting and fishing community, but the

2339
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:19,120
Speaker 1: broader conservation community. Everybody rallied around this idea, especially around

2340
02:09:19,160 --> 02:09:22,720
Speaker 1: wildlife crossings, but a lot of these other pieces too. Uh,

2341
02:09:22,800 --> 02:09:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, it was an economic thing for wildlife crossings,

2342
02:09:25,160 --> 02:09:27,400
Speaker 1: like it was costing. I think the last report I

2343
02:09:27,400 --> 02:09:30,680
Speaker 1: saw was vehicle collisions with wildlife for costing the economy

2344
02:09:30,800 --> 02:09:33,640
Speaker 1: something like six billion dollars a year. So just from

2345
02:09:33,640 --> 02:09:36,960
Speaker 1: an economic standpoint of three fifty million dollar investment in

2346
02:09:37,680 --> 02:09:41,480
Speaker 1: addressing a six billion dollar annual problem makes good business there.

2347
02:09:41,720 --> 02:09:43,520
Speaker 1: But also when you look at the sheer numbers of

2348
02:09:43,560 --> 02:09:47,360
Speaker 1: animals vehicle collisions that animals lost, you know, you think

2349
02:09:47,400 --> 02:09:50,040
Speaker 1: about that from an opportunity standpoint. As a hunter, you

2350
02:09:50,080 --> 02:09:54,200
Speaker 1: can't help but think, well, you know that Ford tourist

2351
02:09:54,240 --> 02:09:56,600
Speaker 1: smashed that deer, and then it goes some opportunity for

2352
02:09:56,640 --> 02:10:00,040
Speaker 1: somebody right to um food on the table, all that

2353
02:10:00,120 --> 02:10:03,120
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. So really, really some good stuff in

2354
02:10:03,120 --> 02:10:05,360
Speaker 1: that bill. So whether you they're gonna be, it's like

2355
02:10:05,400 --> 02:10:07,440
Speaker 1: any legislation that has a lot of things, and if

2356
02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:10,520
Speaker 1: they're gonna be things that make people angry and things

2357
02:10:10,520 --> 02:10:12,240
Speaker 1: that make people happy. But at the end of the day,

2358
02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:16,920
Speaker 1: the beauty of the bipartisanship is like, you know, I

2359
02:10:16,960 --> 02:10:20,600
Speaker 1: don't like this bill, but I like of it, so

2360
02:10:20,640 --> 02:10:23,280
Speaker 1: I'll support it. Then a lot of people get a

2361
02:10:23,320 --> 02:10:26,800
Speaker 1: lot of things out of it. Uh, need five. What

2362
02:10:26,840 --> 02:10:32,200
Speaker 1: will Pittman Robertson funding? Was that going to come in at?

2363
02:10:32,240 --> 02:10:33,880
Speaker 1: And like how long does that money take to hit

2364
02:10:33,920 --> 02:10:38,000
Speaker 1: the ground. Uh, it's gonna be a lot this last year.

2365
02:10:38,640 --> 02:10:40,000
Speaker 1: The money that we're getting at the end of this

2366
02:10:40,080 --> 02:10:42,680
Speaker 1: year is going to be over a billion dollars just

2367
02:10:42,880 --> 02:10:45,560
Speaker 1: from firearms and ammunition. It's the first time that doesn't

2368
02:10:45,560 --> 02:10:47,960
Speaker 1: include the Dingle Johnson stuff. It doesn't include anything but

2369
02:10:48,160 --> 02:10:52,960
Speaker 1: the firearms supportion. Over one billion dollars from from yes

2370
02:10:53,200 --> 02:10:58,240
Speaker 1: and so the and and and again. It's like, yeah,

2371
02:10:58,520 --> 02:11:01,640
Speaker 1: from this, can you imagine if it was all manage,

2372
02:11:01,680 --> 02:11:04,320
Speaker 1: if the shells are fully stocked. Did you know the

2373
02:11:04,440 --> 02:11:09,920
Speaker 1: largest contributor to Pittman Robertson is federal Oh yeah, yeah,

2374
02:11:10,560 --> 02:11:14,040
Speaker 1: the federal federal premium. Man. Yeah, I'm sorry the Feds

2375
02:11:14,080 --> 02:11:18,440
Speaker 1: not They're just huge and it's but yeah, it's uh,

2376
02:11:18,640 --> 02:11:21,920
Speaker 1: federal ammunition for sure. Yeah, it's it's over a billion dollars.

2377
02:11:21,960 --> 02:11:24,160
Speaker 1: That The big challenge is going to be, you know,

2378
02:11:24,880 --> 02:11:28,520
Speaker 1: for fish and wildlife agencies is going to making sure

2379
02:11:28,560 --> 02:11:31,520
Speaker 1: that they can meet the match because people always forget

2380
02:11:31,520 --> 02:11:33,480
Speaker 1: about this. So that money that comes in, that billion

2381
02:11:33,480 --> 02:11:37,040
Speaker 1: dollars eighty percent of that is from non hunters. It's

2382
02:11:37,080 --> 02:11:39,520
Speaker 1: from people who are buying who are sports shooters and

2383
02:11:39,520 --> 02:11:42,360
Speaker 1: people who are buying a defensive handgun just like they

2384
02:11:42,360 --> 02:11:45,720
Speaker 1: did in the eighteen fifties. And so those triangle shape bulls,

2385
02:11:45,760 --> 02:11:51,720
Speaker 1: triangle shape of the market are those folks. And so yeah,

2386
02:11:51,720 --> 02:11:54,160
Speaker 1: that's the thing that like, that's an interesting point we've

2387
02:11:54,160 --> 02:11:59,560
Speaker 1: talked about before. We're hunters almost like to over recognize

2388
02:12:00,320 --> 02:12:03,720
Speaker 1: their pr contributions, and when you get down to like

2389
02:12:03,760 --> 02:12:05,600
Speaker 1: where that money is coming from is coming from shooters.

2390
02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:10,240
Speaker 1: But the caveat is that hunters or the match because

2391
02:12:10,280 --> 02:12:13,200
Speaker 1: you have to match that money. So hunters also by tags.

2392
02:12:13,680 --> 02:12:15,680
Speaker 1: So are you and I make up a smaller portion

2393
02:12:15,760 --> 02:12:17,480
Speaker 1: maybe as hunters we may make up You may make

2394
02:12:17,560 --> 02:12:20,480
Speaker 1: up a small portion state matching portion, yes, because you've

2395
02:12:20,520 --> 02:12:23,160
Speaker 1: got to bring for that billion dollars if we want

2396
02:12:23,200 --> 02:12:25,440
Speaker 1: to see that billion dollars on the ground, and conservation

2397
02:12:25,840 --> 02:12:28,560
Speaker 1: states have to pony up a billion dollars, they have

2398
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:31,000
Speaker 1: to come. You have to get somebody else. You know,

2399
02:12:31,040 --> 02:12:32,760
Speaker 1: all of us at this table have to get one

2400
02:12:32,800 --> 02:12:34,600
Speaker 1: of our friends to buy a tag, whether or not

2401
02:12:34,640 --> 02:12:37,080
Speaker 1: they feel it or not, because if we want that

2402
02:12:37,160 --> 02:12:40,120
Speaker 1: money to then be able to be used that federal money.

2403
02:12:40,360 --> 02:12:42,040
Speaker 1: You got to match it, and there's some states that

2404
02:12:42,080 --> 02:12:44,200
Speaker 1: have done that in other ways. It doesn't have to

2405
02:12:44,240 --> 02:12:47,720
Speaker 1: be licenses, right, you can pass you know, Missouri has

2406
02:12:47,720 --> 02:12:51,880
Speaker 1: a one percent um sales uh. You know there's a

2407
02:12:52,000 --> 02:12:55,160
Speaker 1: tax that they put towards conservation recreation issues. So there

2408
02:12:55,200 --> 02:12:57,600
Speaker 1: are other ways to do it um. But states need

2409
02:12:57,640 --> 02:12:59,200
Speaker 1: to be really inventive and they need to get on

2410
02:12:59,240 --> 02:13:04,640
Speaker 1: the ball because we don't see that it hasn't slowed down. David,

2411
02:13:04,640 --> 02:13:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you pick a pick and choose here.

2412
02:13:08,160 --> 02:13:10,120
Speaker 1: Do you want to do a quick hit on restoring

2413
02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:14,800
Speaker 1: America's Wildlife Act? Which one is more more titilating to

2414
02:13:14,840 --> 02:13:18,160
Speaker 1: you that or revisiting legal issues around wolves and bears,

2415
02:13:19,080 --> 02:13:21,680
Speaker 1: or you could do it too for it too for.

2416
02:13:23,400 --> 02:13:26,720
Speaker 1: I'd love to touch on both of them. So recovering

2417
02:13:26,720 --> 02:13:30,720
Speaker 1: America's Wildlife Act, we're talking about Pittman Robertson. And you

2418
02:13:30,760 --> 02:13:32,160
Speaker 1: know I told you about at the very beginning this,

2419
02:13:32,200 --> 02:13:34,400
Speaker 1: I told you about the founding of of National Wildlife

2420
02:13:34,400 --> 02:13:37,120
Speaker 1: Federation and how one of the first things was addressing

2421
02:13:37,120 --> 02:13:40,600
Speaker 1: this need for more resources to help him these species

2422
02:13:40,600 --> 02:13:44,200
Speaker 1: that were struggling well, the refrain, you know, eighty years

2423
02:13:44,480 --> 02:13:48,360
Speaker 1: later is it's similar. Right, we have Pittman Robertson and

2424
02:13:48,360 --> 02:13:52,240
Speaker 1: we have license fees, and we still have twelve thousand

2425
02:13:52,360 --> 02:13:56,200
Speaker 1: species of what are species of special concern that I

2426
02:13:56,280 --> 02:13:59,080
Speaker 1: I had been identified by states through what are called

2427
02:13:59,160 --> 02:14:02,400
Speaker 1: State Widelife Action Plans, where every ten years they're identifying

2428
02:14:02,480 --> 02:14:05,120
Speaker 1: the species in their state that are of the most concern,

2429
02:14:05,200 --> 02:14:07,400
Speaker 1: that need the most investment, and and where you can

2430
02:14:07,440 --> 02:14:10,320
Speaker 1: do some conservation work to to help support those species.

2431
02:14:10,320 --> 02:14:13,320
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean they're threatened or endangered or threatened with becoming

2432
02:14:13,520 --> 02:14:16,480
Speaker 1: endangered a federally listed species. It just means the state

2433
02:14:16,640 --> 02:14:19,560
Speaker 1: views them as at risk and there needs to be

2434
02:14:19,600 --> 02:14:22,480
Speaker 1: an investment. Well, we don't have the money for sports.

2435
02:14:22,520 --> 02:14:26,120
Speaker 1: Sportsmen and women are been paying Pittman Robertson fees for

2436
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:30,040
Speaker 1: UH for eighty years, right, and and we don't have

2437
02:14:30,080 --> 02:14:32,560
Speaker 1: the resources you know that that that's supposed to go

2438
02:14:32,600 --> 02:14:34,320
Speaker 1: to not only the species we hunt and fish, but

2439
02:14:34,360 --> 02:14:38,200
Speaker 1: everything else. Right, So enter Recovering acas Wildlife Act, which

2440
02:14:38,360 --> 02:14:41,640
Speaker 1: the idea was to amend the Pittman Robertson Act to

2441
02:14:41,640 --> 02:14:45,600
Speaker 1: create this new fund UH that would be used to

2442
02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:50,760
Speaker 1: help states implement those uh state wildlife action plans to

2443
02:14:50,880 --> 02:14:54,240
Speaker 1: help conserve the non game species. And then so that

2444
02:14:54,240 --> 02:14:57,080
Speaker 1: would free up a bunch of money, uh for hunter

2445
02:14:57,120 --> 02:14:59,640
Speaker 1: and angler dollars to put, you know, to take out

2446
02:14:59,640 --> 02:15:02,240
Speaker 1: of that pot potentially that right now we're paying to

2447
02:15:02,320 --> 02:15:05,040
Speaker 1: manage all species through our hunter tags. And maybe now

2448
02:15:05,080 --> 02:15:07,440
Speaker 1: that'll come back in and be able to dump more

2449
02:15:07,440 --> 02:15:11,800
Speaker 1: into mule deer and pronghorn conservation, moose conservation, and then

2450
02:15:12,320 --> 02:15:13,880
Speaker 1: you know, we have this new pot of money that

2451
02:15:13,960 --> 02:15:19,240
Speaker 1: could be used for uh, everything else, right and uh

2452
02:15:19,400 --> 02:15:22,200
Speaker 1: and so right now, like in the Senate, it's been

2453
02:15:22,280 --> 02:15:24,440
Speaker 1: it was this bill was introduced earlier this year in

2454
02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:27,560
Speaker 1: the Senate. It has thirty two co sponsors right now

2455
02:15:27,600 --> 02:15:31,000
Speaker 1: as we're talking, sixteen Republicans, fifteen Democrats and an independent

2456
02:15:31,560 --> 02:15:33,800
Speaker 1: and you listen. Is one of those cases where with

2457
02:15:34,040 --> 02:15:37,160
Speaker 1: Fosberg from TRCP is explained to us during like highly

2458
02:15:37,240 --> 02:15:41,760
Speaker 1: partisan nothing can get done times, sometimes real good common

2459
02:15:41,800 --> 02:15:45,000
Speaker 1: sense conservation work gets taken care of because it lets

2460
02:15:45,040 --> 02:15:48,200
Speaker 1: you have it gives them a chance to have a win. Yeah,

2461
02:15:48,280 --> 02:15:50,480
Speaker 1: And this is a the biggest hang up on this,

2462
02:15:50,520 --> 02:15:52,200
Speaker 1: I think for the longest time on getting this passed

2463
02:15:52,280 --> 02:15:53,440
Speaker 1: was how are we going to pay for it? And

2464
02:15:54,920 --> 02:15:58,120
Speaker 1: I think there's identified in a way to pay for it,

2465
02:15:58,120 --> 02:16:03,120
Speaker 1: which uh, which comes out of UM federal revenues generating

2466
02:16:03,200 --> 02:16:06,520
Speaker 1: from violations of environmental and natural resource laws and regulations.

2467
02:16:06,560 --> 02:16:10,040
Speaker 1: So it's so it's programs administered by the e P

2468
02:16:10,160 --> 02:16:14,760
Speaker 1: a environmental protection agency, you know, they levy fines for

2469
02:16:14,760 --> 02:16:18,400
Speaker 1: for violations environmental violations, goes into this big pot. And

2470
02:16:18,400 --> 02:16:20,040
Speaker 1: now we're saying we're gonna take part of that that's

2471
02:16:20,040 --> 02:16:25,160
Speaker 1: not already going to the general treasury to funds you know, schools, highways, whatever,

2472
02:16:25,760 --> 02:16:28,160
Speaker 1: and we're gonna say, you know what, maybe what this

2473
02:16:28,200 --> 02:16:31,800
Speaker 1: should be used for. They created the problem by violating

2474
02:16:31,840 --> 02:16:33,879
Speaker 1: the law and creating these cleanups that we need to

2475
02:16:33,879 --> 02:16:36,000
Speaker 1: do it. Maybe maybe having some of that money diverted

2476
02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:38,840
Speaker 1: to going back into wildlife conservation isn't a bad way

2477
02:16:38,879 --> 02:16:41,959
Speaker 1: to do this, right, So that's sort of the the

2478
02:16:42,000 --> 02:16:44,960
Speaker 1: pay for and and it seems to have pretty broad support.

2479
02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you have real politically diverse senators that have

2480
02:16:49,040 --> 02:16:52,680
Speaker 1: signed onto this UM, and like I said, it's got momentum,

2481
02:16:52,720 --> 02:16:55,760
Speaker 1: it's got you equal number, you know, the one independent

2482
02:16:55,800 --> 02:17:00,560
Speaker 1: typically caucuses with with Democrats. So you really have sixteen

2483
02:17:00,760 --> 02:17:04,879
Speaker 1: and sixteen, you have this. This really it's as bipartisan

2484
02:17:04,879 --> 02:17:06,960
Speaker 1: as you can get. And so the question is it

2485
02:17:07,000 --> 02:17:10,640
Speaker 1: is it going to happen? And Uh, hopefully, like you said,

2486
02:17:10,680 --> 02:17:12,440
Speaker 1: maybe one of these common sense things that just lines

2487
02:17:12,520 --> 02:17:14,600
Speaker 1: up and happens. And and uh that's one of the

2488
02:17:14,600 --> 02:17:17,879
Speaker 1: things that we we've been working on as an organization

2489
02:17:17,920 --> 02:17:21,200
Speaker 1: for years and and a lot of other organizations, you know,

2490
02:17:21,240 --> 02:17:24,320
Speaker 1: I know uh ni FIS with National Shooting Sports Foundation

2491
02:17:24,360 --> 02:17:26,280
Speaker 1: has been engaged in this too, and they're like that

2492
02:17:26,680 --> 02:17:30,560
Speaker 1: this is something that the entire UH conservation community, from

2493
02:17:30,560 --> 02:17:34,879
Speaker 1: the sporting groups to trade associations to broader conservation organizations

2494
02:17:34,879 --> 02:17:37,920
Speaker 1: that like they're they're all rallying around this. It's in it.

2495
02:17:38,560 --> 02:17:41,480
Speaker 1: It'll be a game changer, an infusion of something at

2496
02:17:41,480 --> 02:17:44,640
Speaker 1: one point four billion dollars a year into UH into

2497
02:17:44,680 --> 02:17:47,480
Speaker 1: the States to manage these species that right now are

2498
02:17:47,520 --> 02:17:51,640
Speaker 1: just woefully underfunded. Yeah, bears and wolves, bears and wolves.

2499
02:17:51,920 --> 02:17:53,480
Speaker 1: So how do we want to talk so that there's

2500
02:17:53,520 --> 02:17:55,480
Speaker 1: just a lot going on around that right now, right

2501
02:17:55,560 --> 02:18:00,000
Speaker 1: that could that could just open up rabbit holes. Uh,

2502
02:18:00,200 --> 02:18:03,119
Speaker 1: you know, you've got the so you've got the state

2503
02:18:03,120 --> 02:18:06,920
Speaker 1: of Wyoming's petitioned now to delist grizzly bears in the

2504
02:18:07,080 --> 02:18:11,720
Speaker 1: in the Greater Yellstone area. Um, well, this is yeah,

2505
02:18:11,760 --> 02:18:13,560
Speaker 1: well I think this is the first time they've actually

2506
02:18:13,600 --> 02:18:15,840
Speaker 1: formally petitioned. Every other time it was the Fish and

2507
02:18:15,840 --> 02:18:21,240
Speaker 1: Wildlife Service that initiated a rulemaking process and formally proposed delisting. Uh.

2508
02:18:21,560 --> 02:18:23,240
Speaker 1: In this this is the first time that what happened

2509
02:18:23,360 --> 02:18:25,880
Speaker 1: that the State of Wyoming has actually taken the initiative

2510
02:18:25,920 --> 02:18:28,920
Speaker 1: to petition the Fish and Wildlife Service. So there's two ways,

2511
02:18:29,160 --> 02:18:31,640
Speaker 1: the petitioning the Fish and Wilife Service to do something

2512
02:18:31,680 --> 02:18:33,800
Speaker 1: that the Fishing Walafe Service already tried to do twice.

2513
02:18:34,040 --> 02:18:36,080
Speaker 1: They tried to do the health differences that make that

2514
02:18:36,120 --> 02:18:37,840
Speaker 1: you petition to do it. They already tried to do it.

2515
02:18:39,640 --> 02:18:44,320
Speaker 1: I agree. I'm just no, I I agree, uh right.

2516
02:18:44,400 --> 02:18:48,959
Speaker 1: But perhaps the maybe the state was thinking, we don't

2517
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:52,520
Speaker 1: know if this administration is going to try again. And

2518
02:18:52,800 --> 02:18:55,320
Speaker 1: the only two ways under the Act to to start

2519
02:18:55,320 --> 02:18:57,920
Speaker 1: a process are either on the initiative of the Fish

2520
02:18:57,920 --> 02:19:01,120
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service or somebody some geting a petition that

2521
02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:04,080
Speaker 1: requires the Subfishing Walize Service to act. And so if

2522
02:19:04,120 --> 02:19:06,480
Speaker 1: they suspected that the Fishing Wilife Service wasn't going to

2523
02:19:06,480 --> 02:19:08,440
Speaker 1: be interested in doing it, or what might delay might

2524
02:19:08,440 --> 02:19:10,800
Speaker 1: take a long time. Maybe the state said all right,

2525
02:19:10,840 --> 02:19:12,560
Speaker 1: well we're going to do it and force them to

2526
02:19:12,600 --> 02:19:16,320
Speaker 1: do something. All right. The other thing that could you know,

2527
02:19:16,320 --> 02:19:19,120
Speaker 1: there's a legal calculus to it. Right, So in the past,

2528
02:19:19,120 --> 02:19:21,000
Speaker 1: when the Fishing Wilife Service does it, it means that

2529
02:19:21,200 --> 02:19:24,840
Speaker 1: any lawsuit arising out of that is typically filed in Washington,

2530
02:19:24,879 --> 02:19:28,640
Speaker 1: d c. Or in Montana. It goes to that court

2531
02:19:28,640 --> 02:19:31,160
Speaker 1: in Missoula, which will yeah, yeah, right. So so here

2532
02:19:31,200 --> 02:19:34,640
Speaker 1: the state of Wyoming submits the petition, if their petition

2533
02:19:34,720 --> 02:19:38,280
Speaker 1: is declined, then maybe they initiate the lawsuit in Wyoming

2534
02:19:38,800 --> 02:19:43,000
Speaker 1: Federal District court. Friend and who right, because the judge

2535
02:19:43,000 --> 02:19:47,200
Speaker 1: of Missoula always like they always find a way to say, ah, right,

2536
02:19:47,280 --> 02:19:50,520
Speaker 1: that seems to happen. Strange seems to happen. So that's

2537
02:19:50,560 --> 02:19:53,360
Speaker 1: the that's sort of where we are with Grizzly Bears.

2538
02:19:53,560 --> 02:19:56,480
Speaker 1: I'm just should you see that big list of that

2539
02:19:56,560 --> 02:20:00,680
Speaker 1: letter that went to um Deb Island and it was

2540
02:20:00,720 --> 02:20:04,320
Speaker 1: signed by what it was, Bernie Sanders is on there,

2541
02:20:04,640 --> 02:20:07,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, sixteen seventeen senators signed a letter calling

2542
02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:11,840
Speaker 1: for like instant re enlisting of the Gray Wolf. The Wolf. Yeah, yeah,

2543
02:20:11,879 --> 02:20:14,680
Speaker 1: I saw that. That's happened before. I know. I sent

2544
02:20:14,760 --> 02:20:16,720
Speaker 1: it to someone who kind of analyzes that stuff, and

2545
02:20:16,720 --> 02:20:20,200
Speaker 1: he said, I'm sure they're currying favor with the animal

2546
02:20:20,280 --> 02:20:23,000
Speaker 1: rights community who donated some money to them, and they're

2547
02:20:23,040 --> 02:20:25,640
Speaker 1: doing like a pointless thing that will lead nowhere so

2548
02:20:25,680 --> 02:20:28,440
Speaker 1: they can be like, see, I tried, I tried. Yeah,

2549
02:20:28,560 --> 02:20:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, that's happened before. There are other times where

2550
02:20:31,920 --> 02:20:34,120
Speaker 1: you know, members of Congress have done that. A little

2551
02:20:34,120 --> 02:20:36,240
Speaker 1: surprised to see old burn on there, man like being

2552
02:20:36,320 --> 02:20:39,760
Speaker 1: from like Vermont and everything. Really, she seems like you

2553
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:46,959
Speaker 1: were really wasn't cretic wants to get Bernie Sanders on

2554
02:20:47,000 --> 02:20:49,000
Speaker 1: the show. And I'm like, tell me why and we'll

2555
02:20:49,000 --> 02:20:51,680
Speaker 1: do it. And maybe now she's got her in because

2556
02:20:51,680 --> 02:20:56,640
Speaker 1: he's on this letter. H that's funny. Uh. Yeah. So

2557
02:20:57,440 --> 02:20:59,800
Speaker 1: there's a ton going on with wolves though, right, And

2558
02:21:00,360 --> 02:21:03,760
Speaker 1: that's sort of a weird one to un weird web

2559
02:21:03,800 --> 02:21:06,240
Speaker 1: to unravel about all the different things going on with wolves.

2560
02:21:06,720 --> 02:21:11,119
Speaker 1: Uh you have so you have, uh, all the different

2561
02:21:11,120 --> 02:21:12,760
Speaker 1: state laws that are getting a lot drawing a lot

2562
02:21:12,760 --> 02:21:16,039
Speaker 1: of attention in Montana and Idaho on wolf hunding. Right,

2563
02:21:16,040 --> 02:21:20,760
Speaker 1: they're gonna kill them? Yeah? Right, that in your journal,

2564
02:21:20,800 --> 02:21:22,920
Speaker 1: I don't It's not like and then come back to

2565
02:21:22,959 --> 02:21:25,080
Speaker 1: it in a year too. We've covered it. We've covered it.

2566
02:21:26,040 --> 02:21:30,199
Speaker 1: We've covered quite heavily the discrepancy between what the rules

2567
02:21:30,200 --> 02:21:33,000
Speaker 1: are and how one would sum them up in a

2568
02:21:33,080 --> 02:21:37,280
Speaker 1: headline on USA Today. Right, So you've been through all

2569
02:21:37,280 --> 02:21:41,040
Speaker 1: that we've covered. Yeah. Um, but what you do have

2570
02:21:41,320 --> 02:21:45,720
Speaker 1: is like this now a really interesting situation where wolves

2571
02:21:45,879 --> 02:21:52,080
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Eastern Oregon, eastern Washington, Panhandle of Utah, like,

2572
02:21:52,160 --> 02:21:58,920
Speaker 1: that whole population was delisted prior to the prior administration

2573
02:21:59,080 --> 02:22:04,440
Speaker 1: doing a nationwide delisting rule that effectively delisted everything else nationwide, right,

2574
02:22:04,920 --> 02:22:07,560
Speaker 1: except for those that were already delisted in Mexican wolves

2575
02:22:07,560 --> 02:22:11,400
Speaker 1: and red wolves, but delisted everything else. I think that

2576
02:22:11,520 --> 02:22:13,160
Speaker 1: what that did is it created a little bit of

2577
02:22:13,200 --> 02:22:15,960
Speaker 1: an opening here. Uh. And so now you have this

2578
02:22:16,040 --> 02:22:20,359
Speaker 1: petition to relist gray wolves in the Western United States.

2579
02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:25,800
Speaker 1: Only instead of calling them a like right now, they

2580
02:22:25,800 --> 02:22:28,720
Speaker 1: were delisted as a distinct population segment in those in

2581
02:22:28,760 --> 02:22:32,640
Speaker 1: that area geographic area. I described. Since then, you've had

2582
02:22:32,760 --> 02:22:36,480
Speaker 1: movement of those wolves. Those wolves are you know, genetically

2583
02:22:36,879 --> 02:22:40,400
Speaker 1: you can find genetic connectivity between those wolves and wolves

2584
02:22:40,400 --> 02:22:43,000
Speaker 1: in western Oregon. We just got killed on I five

2585
02:22:43,080 --> 02:22:46,240
Speaker 1: after he walked across the Golden Gate Bridge in California

2586
02:22:46,280 --> 02:22:49,039
Speaker 1: near Yosemite, right like fifteen miles north of Yosemite National

2587
02:22:49,080 --> 02:22:52,920
Speaker 1: Parks something like that. Like these you're having this genetic interchange,

2588
02:22:53,240 --> 02:22:55,400
Speaker 1: be mixing up two wolves. There's a famous wolf running

2589
02:22:55,440 --> 02:22:57,160
Speaker 1: around California's got hit on the side of the road.

2590
02:22:58,040 --> 02:23:00,920
Speaker 1: That's the one I'm talking about. Um So, but what

2591
02:23:01,000 --> 02:23:03,760
Speaker 1: you have now is at the time wolves are reintroduced

2592
02:23:03,800 --> 02:23:07,800
Speaker 1: to Idaho and Wyoming, Central Idaho and Wyoming, like there

2593
02:23:07,840 --> 02:23:10,160
Speaker 1: was no genetic connectivity between any other worlds because there

2594
02:23:10,240 --> 02:23:13,320
Speaker 1: weren't wolves other places. Now those wolves have dispersed, You've

2595
02:23:13,320 --> 02:23:15,720
Speaker 1: had some other wolves dispersed from Canada, and you have

2596
02:23:15,800 --> 02:23:19,480
Speaker 1: these more genetically connected population and so now this petition

2597
02:23:19,520 --> 02:23:23,039
Speaker 1: to to realist is saying, you can't draw this distinct

2598
02:23:23,040 --> 02:23:26,760
Speaker 1: population segment the same way. It can't be Wyoming, Idaho, Montana,

2599
02:23:26,840 --> 02:23:29,680
Speaker 1: Eastern Oregon, and eastern Washington, northern Utah. It can't be

2600
02:23:29,760 --> 02:23:34,200
Speaker 1: that anymore. It has to be the west and by

2601
02:23:34,240 --> 02:23:38,800
Speaker 1: the way, when you draw that big, it hasn't recovered westwide.

2602
02:23:39,000 --> 02:23:44,680
Speaker 1: And so by delisting them nationwide actually created this opening

2603
02:23:44,720 --> 02:23:48,400
Speaker 1: to make a push to relist wolves in the entire

2604
02:23:48,440 --> 02:23:52,279
Speaker 1: Western United States. Um, and they can use your success

2605
02:23:52,280 --> 02:23:55,360
Speaker 1: again right right and then, and so what you're left

2606
02:23:55,360 --> 02:23:56,920
Speaker 1: with is, okay, so you have a petition out there,

2607
02:23:56,959 --> 02:23:58,760
Speaker 1: and the Service has to act on it in with

2608
02:23:58,800 --> 02:24:00,800
Speaker 1: any year under the endangers you sees act And so

2609
02:24:00,879 --> 02:24:04,080
Speaker 1: what's going to happen, right If what's gonna happen is

2610
02:24:04,120 --> 02:24:07,200
Speaker 1: whether they say yes they're warranted for listing or no,

2611
02:24:07,320 --> 02:24:10,200
Speaker 1: they're not warranted for listing. There's going to be a

2612
02:24:10,280 --> 02:24:15,959
Speaker 1: lawsuit filed. So next year this time, that's this you

2613
02:24:15,959 --> 02:24:18,440
Speaker 1: can write in the journal too. There's now going to

2614
02:24:18,480 --> 02:24:20,920
Speaker 1: be a lawsuit in the forum of whomever is choosing,

2615
02:24:20,920 --> 02:24:23,760
Speaker 1: whoever is filing it in somewhere in the Western United States,

2616
02:24:24,560 --> 02:24:29,320
Speaker 1: maybe Montana, to say you say that service says not warranted,

2617
02:24:29,879 --> 02:24:32,480
Speaker 1: that lawsuit will be filed in front of judge of

2618
02:24:32,480 --> 02:24:34,959
Speaker 1: their choosing, and we're just we just hit the reset

2619
02:24:35,000 --> 02:24:39,560
Speaker 1: button on wolves. My my opinion is we've hit the

2620
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:41,600
Speaker 1: reset button on wolves and we're looking at probably in

2621
02:24:42,160 --> 02:24:45,720
Speaker 1: you know, another decade long fight. Uh, we'll see, we'll see,

2622
02:24:46,400 --> 02:24:51,240
Speaker 1: we'll see. That's my crystal ball, like you know, crystal

2623
02:24:51,240 --> 02:24:53,960
Speaker 1: ball and tin tin hat at the same time. Right,

2624
02:24:54,760 --> 02:24:56,920
Speaker 1: it is sort of what I'm thinking we're looking at

2625
02:24:56,959 --> 02:24:59,920
Speaker 1: with That was one of the primary um we talked

2626
02:25:00,080 --> 02:25:01,720
Speaker 1: this last week where I was just talking about the

2627
02:25:01,720 --> 02:25:03,760
Speaker 1: the EBB and flow of things and like the ways

2628
02:25:03,760 --> 02:25:06,680
Speaker 1: of which is hard to find a win because I

2629
02:25:06,760 --> 02:25:14,320
Speaker 1: was disappointed when President Trump removed um the role this

2630
02:25:14,480 --> 02:25:17,800
Speaker 1: rule for tongas and opened up more of Congress National

2631
02:25:17,879 --> 02:25:21,959
Speaker 1: Forest for road building. I was disappointed by that, and

2632
02:25:22,040 --> 02:25:26,320
Speaker 1: I was happy to hear that the Biden administration is

2633
02:25:26,760 --> 02:25:30,600
Speaker 1: putting those rules back into place. At the same time.

2634
02:25:30,640 --> 02:25:32,000
Speaker 1: One of the things I've worried a lot about the

2635
02:25:32,080 --> 02:25:37,560
Speaker 1: Dan Biden administrations. I've worried that just some crazy wolf

2636
02:25:37,680 --> 02:25:42,280
Speaker 1: bear stuff is gonna come down. Um. But then other

2637
02:25:42,280 --> 02:25:44,080
Speaker 1: people say, like, well, it's not really like the way

2638
02:25:44,120 --> 02:25:48,840
Speaker 1: that those rules work. It's not really susceptible to four

2639
02:25:48,920 --> 02:25:52,679
Speaker 1: year administration changes. It plays out in a more slow way.

2640
02:25:52,920 --> 02:25:54,240
Speaker 1: Do you feel that that's safe to say or not

2641
02:25:54,280 --> 02:25:55,520
Speaker 1: safe to say, or let me let you put it

2642
02:25:55,480 --> 02:25:58,520
Speaker 1: in a more clear question, does having like if you

2643
02:25:58,520 --> 02:26:01,600
Speaker 1: have like Democrats hold Senate Democrats all the White House,

2644
02:26:02,000 --> 02:26:04,520
Speaker 1: is it a foregone conclusion that they're gonna walk back

2645
02:26:04,600 --> 02:26:07,920
Speaker 1: state management of wolves and bears or is it not

2646
02:26:08,040 --> 02:26:10,080
Speaker 1: something that they can just put their hands on the dial.

2647
02:26:10,400 --> 02:26:15,080
Speaker 1: I don't think, because it's so rarely happens. I don't

2648
02:26:15,120 --> 02:26:19,120
Speaker 1: think that Congress jumps in here and does anything. I

2649
02:26:19,160 --> 02:26:21,760
Speaker 1: think you have. You'll you'll see political statement bills that

2650
02:26:21,760 --> 02:26:24,840
Speaker 1: you've already seen. You'll see political statement bills saying grizzly

2651
02:26:24,840 --> 02:26:28,000
Speaker 1: bears should be delisted, you know, a grizzly Bear Delisting Act,

2652
02:26:28,040 --> 02:26:30,359
Speaker 1: and you'll see statement bills of a grizzly Bear Protection

2653
02:26:30,360 --> 02:26:32,760
Speaker 1: Act that that would be along the lines of a

2654
02:26:32,800 --> 02:26:35,920
Speaker 1: bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act. I don't think under

2655
02:26:35,920 --> 02:26:38,800
Speaker 1: the current current construction of Congress, even with with Democrats

2656
02:26:38,840 --> 02:26:42,680
Speaker 1: controlling both bodies of Congress, that either like that that

2657
02:26:42,720 --> 02:26:45,480
Speaker 1: effort could go anywhere, or if Republicans took control, that

2658
02:26:45,480 --> 02:26:49,200
Speaker 1: that effort could go anywhere. The place where where I

2659
02:26:49,200 --> 02:26:50,560
Speaker 1: think you have to watch it's what happens at the

2660
02:26:50,600 --> 02:26:54,720
Speaker 1: administration level. So and that process can play out quicker

2661
02:26:55,080 --> 02:26:58,160
Speaker 1: because you have timelines prescribed in the Endangered Species Act

2662
02:26:58,160 --> 02:27:01,320
Speaker 1: to respond to petitions, and then you have litigation. That's

2663
02:27:01,360 --> 02:27:05,400
Speaker 1: the part that gets protracted. But you have a petition,

2664
02:27:05,480 --> 02:27:08,680
Speaker 1: the Biden administration, by law, is required to respond to

2665
02:27:08,720 --> 02:27:11,800
Speaker 1: that petition in a statutorially prescribed period of time and

2666
02:27:11,879 --> 02:27:14,800
Speaker 1: do an analysis best based on the best available science

2667
02:27:14,840 --> 02:27:19,480
Speaker 1: as to whether wolves should be listed or not. And

2668
02:27:19,520 --> 02:27:23,800
Speaker 1: they'll have to answer that question, and that answer half

2669
02:27:23,840 --> 02:27:25,760
Speaker 1: of the people really like in the other half won't.

2670
02:27:26,360 --> 02:27:29,080
Speaker 1: And that's going to create a fight. And that's just

2671
02:27:29,720 --> 02:27:34,800
Speaker 1: that's just how our system works and why we have

2672
02:27:34,959 --> 02:27:39,200
Speaker 1: these perpetual fights about predators and almost no other federally

2673
02:27:39,280 --> 02:27:44,040
Speaker 1: listed species. It's always the charismatic species and typically predators.

2674
02:27:44,680 --> 02:27:47,200
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, so that's kind of where I think

2675
02:27:47,240 --> 02:27:49,040
Speaker 1: we are. I will tell you we should talk again

2676
02:27:49,320 --> 02:27:52,240
Speaker 1: in a few months, right because I'm finishing up a

2677
02:27:52,360 --> 02:27:54,680
Speaker 1: helping somebody write a book, and I'm finishing a book

2678
02:27:54,720 --> 02:27:57,200
Speaker 1: chapter where it's called Dave on wolves. No, it's on

2679
02:27:57,280 --> 02:28:00,320
Speaker 1: grizzly Bara. No, it's it's a it's a it's an uh,

2680
02:28:00,400 --> 02:28:05,360
Speaker 1: it's an analysis of My contribution to it is is, uh,

2681
02:28:05,560 --> 02:28:07,840
Speaker 1: how to use the Act in a different way to

2682
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:10,600
Speaker 1: empower states or encourage states to be able to take

2683
02:28:10,640 --> 02:28:14,080
Speaker 1: on more of a leadership role in managing threatening endangered species.

2684
02:28:14,520 --> 02:28:18,960
Speaker 1: Um and uh, like my case study is grizzly bears,

2685
02:28:18,959 --> 02:28:22,920
Speaker 1: and I propose a solution for how you get grizzly

2686
02:28:23,000 --> 02:28:27,960
Speaker 1: bears back in state management even if they're listed. Okay,

2687
02:28:28,000 --> 02:28:31,840
Speaker 1: one last quick hit for you fellers. Uh your mountain

2688
02:28:31,840 --> 02:28:35,800
Speaker 1: podcast hit. Oh my goodness, Yeah, there is. For the

2689
02:28:35,800 --> 02:28:38,040
Speaker 1: next hour. This is what we're gonna talk. We were

2690
02:28:38,040 --> 02:28:39,800
Speaker 1: gonna be able to hide all of that. No one

2691
02:28:39,879 --> 02:28:41,600
Speaker 1: was ever going to find it, and it was gonna

2692
02:28:41,640 --> 02:28:43,800
Speaker 1: be to our better men. Know what better teaser, What

2693
02:28:43,879 --> 02:28:46,680
Speaker 1: better teaser than what we've been doing. Yeah, No, that's

2694
02:28:47,200 --> 02:28:50,000
Speaker 1: that's pretty much what Sonifine I and another buddy of ours,

2695
02:28:50,280 --> 02:28:54,000
Speaker 1: Mike McGrady. You know, three years ago, just just because

2696
02:28:54,000 --> 02:28:56,760
Speaker 1: we were leaving the Governor's office, we've been listening to

2697
02:28:56,760 --> 02:28:58,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of different podcasts and we thought, you know,

2698
02:28:58,760 --> 02:29:01,320
Speaker 1: there's one they're all STUDI right, No, there's a lot

2699
02:29:01,360 --> 02:29:04,200
Speaker 1: of there's a lot of great podcasts out there. Um,

2700
02:29:04,240 --> 02:29:06,520
Speaker 1: but we actually did feel like there was one space

2701
02:29:07,080 --> 02:29:10,600
Speaker 1: that that wasn't completely occupied where we we could step

2702
02:29:10,600 --> 02:29:13,480
Speaker 1: in and provide value. And that was really providing from

2703
02:29:13,480 --> 02:29:16,120
Speaker 1: from a boots on the ground, like a guys in

2704
02:29:16,160 --> 02:29:18,800
Speaker 1: the trenches kind of approach of let's talk about the

2705
02:29:18,879 --> 02:29:21,760
Speaker 1: law and policy around a lot of these conservation issues

2706
02:29:21,800 --> 02:29:24,959
Speaker 1: at a state level and federal level. Uh. And so

2707
02:29:25,000 --> 02:29:28,640
Speaker 1: we we created this. You know, basically our tagline is,

2708
02:29:28,760 --> 02:29:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, every day things happen that affect your land,

2709
02:29:31,600 --> 02:29:33,320
Speaker 1: water and wildlife, and you should know about them. And

2710
02:29:33,320 --> 02:29:35,480
Speaker 1: that's where we come in and talk about all the

2711
02:29:35,800 --> 02:29:38,040
Speaker 1: policy nuances. So it's really kind of a walkout kind

2712
02:29:38,080 --> 02:29:41,200
Speaker 1: of nerdy podcast called Your Mountain. And I don't know

2713
02:29:41,200 --> 02:29:44,920
Speaker 1: why we keep doing it. And yeah, you were gracious

2714
02:29:45,080 --> 02:29:46,879
Speaker 1: enough to be our first guest on that podcast three

2715
02:29:46,959 --> 02:29:51,600
Speaker 1: years ago and forty we've done a hundred forty plus

2716
02:29:51,600 --> 02:30:00,720
Speaker 1: now geez, yeah, we've we have as many episodes as listeners. Yeah. Yeah,

2717
02:30:00,959 --> 02:30:04,000
Speaker 1: we're moving up those charts. Available everywhere, come out. Yeah,

2718
02:30:04,040 --> 02:30:06,720
Speaker 1: that's the deal, available everywhere. When someone gives you a

2719
02:30:06,760 --> 02:30:10,960
Speaker 1: chance to plug yourself that. Yeah, it's been super fun.

2720
02:30:11,000 --> 02:30:13,360
Speaker 1: It's given us an opportunity. Before we left the Governor's office,

2721
02:30:13,400 --> 02:30:15,000
Speaker 1: we said, like, we want to stay in touch, we

2722
02:30:15,000 --> 02:30:17,200
Speaker 1: want to keep doing stuff together. And so this has

2723
02:30:17,200 --> 02:30:19,120
Speaker 1: been an excuse for us to sit down in a

2724
02:30:19,280 --> 02:30:21,280
Speaker 1: in a you know, in an office once a week

2725
02:30:21,320 --> 02:30:24,120
Speaker 1: at night and like spend an hour talking about like

2726
02:30:24,160 --> 02:30:26,720
Speaker 1: we had a whole episode you talked about corner crossing

2727
02:30:26,720 --> 02:30:29,359
Speaker 1: and it's kind of funny, Like we had an episode

2728
02:30:29,400 --> 02:30:32,200
Speaker 1: one eighteen we spent an hour in like forty minutes

2729
02:30:32,600 --> 02:30:37,560
Speaker 1: talking about that specific issue, you know, the wilderness rule.

2730
02:30:37,600 --> 02:30:40,280
Speaker 1: We talk about, you know, breaking down, pr breaking down,

2731
02:30:40,360 --> 02:30:43,480
Speaker 1: wot's breaking down, you know, E s A and in

2732
02:30:43,760 --> 02:30:46,880
Speaker 1: you know, four different episodes and stuff like you're welcome,

2733
02:30:48,560 --> 02:30:51,879
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's it's been super it's been super

2734
02:30:51,920 --> 02:30:54,240
Speaker 1: fun as friends to be able to I'm sure you

2735
02:30:54,320 --> 02:30:56,080
Speaker 1: get it. Like if you want to become the kind

2736
02:30:56,080 --> 02:30:57,920
Speaker 1: of person when you're driving down the road with your friends,

2737
02:30:58,000 --> 02:30:59,840
Speaker 1: you can be like, no, that's not how it works.

2738
02:31:00,560 --> 02:31:02,480
Speaker 1: Listen to your show, that's what you should do, and

2739
02:31:02,600 --> 02:31:04,720
Speaker 1: then you can tell people that's not what happens. Man.

2740
02:31:04,720 --> 02:31:08,039
Speaker 1: What happens is this first, it goes to the Supreme Court. Yeah, Like,

2741
02:31:08,120 --> 02:31:10,920
Speaker 1: if you want a nerdy podcast, this is understand trying

2742
02:31:10,920 --> 02:31:12,080
Speaker 1: to make it seem nerdy. I'm trying to make it

2743
02:31:12,560 --> 02:31:14,720
Speaker 1: to understand the nuts and bolts of everything, like that's

2744
02:31:14,760 --> 02:31:17,080
Speaker 1: that's what. It's a deep dive into the nuts and

2745
02:31:17,120 --> 02:31:19,720
Speaker 1: bolts of law and policy. Rather than being the kind

2746
02:31:19,720 --> 02:31:22,680
Speaker 1: of person who's like, well, no, they wanna it was

2747
02:31:22,720 --> 02:31:25,680
Speaker 1: like home, who who's they? It kind of gives you

2748
02:31:25,720 --> 02:31:28,320
Speaker 1: like an understanding of what is the what? It's been

2749
02:31:28,360 --> 02:31:30,440
Speaker 1: super fun and you were super cool, like it was

2750
02:31:30,440 --> 02:31:33,600
Speaker 1: funny you've been here ten years like it was again,

2751
02:31:33,640 --> 02:31:36,520
Speaker 1: it's just super it's been super fun for us to

2752
02:31:36,520 --> 02:31:40,200
Speaker 1: have that friendship and keep that connection. And you know,

2753
02:31:40,360 --> 02:31:44,000
Speaker 1: graciously you were, like Dave said, like our first episode,

2754
02:31:44,040 --> 02:31:46,560
Speaker 1: we flew out to visit you and we're like, we

2755
02:31:46,600 --> 02:31:49,160
Speaker 1: think we're going to do this podcast. Would you would

2756
02:31:49,160 --> 02:31:51,160
Speaker 1: you be our first guest? And so we went and

2757
02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:53,720
Speaker 1: sat down. That was very kind of you. And it's

2758
02:31:53,760 --> 02:31:56,040
Speaker 1: been how many years ago? Was at three and a

2759
02:31:56,080 --> 02:31:58,160
Speaker 1: half three and a half. I think three and a half.

2760
02:31:58,440 --> 02:32:01,480
Speaker 1: We started here left in me we started in May

2761
02:32:01,520 --> 02:32:07,120
Speaker 1: of nine. I don't even know. It's been three over

2762
02:32:07,160 --> 02:32:10,680
Speaker 1: three years now. So your Mountain podcast, Availa where podcasts

2763
02:32:10,720 --> 02:32:14,200
Speaker 1: are given away, that's right, Spotify, guys on Spotify. We

2764
02:32:14,320 --> 02:32:18,760
Speaker 1: are everywhere too. We're on Yeah, you should definitely subscribe

2765
02:32:18,760 --> 02:32:21,200
Speaker 1: to it no matter what, because that's really good for

2766
02:32:21,200 --> 02:32:23,760
Speaker 1: our egos. We don't monitor, so we do it for

2767
02:32:23,879 --> 02:32:29,320
Speaker 1: no monetization, zero zero. I'm gonna subscribe. What. No, I

2768
02:32:29,360 --> 02:32:33,039
Speaker 1: don't think it's I think it's great America. Actually, for

2769
02:32:33,040 --> 02:32:34,560
Speaker 1: for all you lawyers listening out there, there are a

2770
02:32:34,600 --> 02:32:36,520
Speaker 1: number of episodes where if you're a lawyer in Wyoming,

2771
02:32:36,560 --> 02:32:39,240
Speaker 1: you can get a CLI, a continuing legal education credit

2772
02:32:39,280 --> 02:32:41,520
Speaker 1: for your live license, exactly right, and you could probably

2773
02:32:41,560 --> 02:32:43,920
Speaker 1: apply for those in other states as well. A former

2774
02:32:44,040 --> 02:32:47,160
Speaker 1: senator used to make his staff listen to our podcast.

2775
02:32:47,320 --> 02:32:50,640
Speaker 1: Really yeah, and we've got we've got different Senate offices,

2776
02:32:50,760 --> 02:32:52,800
Speaker 1: or we know there are folks in the office that

2777
02:32:52,800 --> 02:32:54,880
Speaker 1: that listen to our podcast. Dare I say it's an

2778
02:32:54,920 --> 02:32:58,480
Speaker 1: insider's look? You may, you might, you may? You guys

2779
02:32:58,520 --> 02:33:00,879
Speaker 1: need to get you guys, Gonna put that, By the way,

2780
02:33:01,000 --> 02:33:03,920
Speaker 1: we're terrible marketers. If we knew how to market, we

2781
02:33:03,920 --> 02:33:06,400
Speaker 1: would we would say we would quote you now like

2782
02:33:06,440 --> 02:33:09,320
Speaker 1: Stephen and Ranella. Dare I say, dare I say an

2783
02:33:09,360 --> 02:33:12,080
Speaker 1: insider's podcast? But we haven't posted anything on our end

2784
02:33:12,120 --> 02:33:14,080
Speaker 1: of our social channels, and we don't even know I

2785
02:33:14,120 --> 02:33:16,400
Speaker 1: don't know who the passwords are. Forgot. It is there.

2786
02:33:16,400 --> 02:33:18,440
Speaker 1: It's up every wee there. We check it and we

2787
02:33:18,480 --> 02:33:20,280
Speaker 1: respond to all the emails and everything we get. But

2788
02:33:20,680 --> 02:33:23,400
Speaker 1: it's there almost every week. We've been kind of busy.

2789
02:33:23,640 --> 02:33:27,560
Speaker 1: Your Mountain podcast. Yeah, I appreciate that last thing. Next week,

2790
02:33:27,640 --> 02:33:31,000
Speaker 1: so listen, I know what happens to you people Christmas

2791
02:33:31,080 --> 02:33:33,440
Speaker 1: holiday because they're not you're not at work and all that.

2792
02:33:33,560 --> 02:33:35,880
Speaker 1: You don't listen to your podcast. But next week is

2793
02:33:35,920 --> 02:33:43,160
Speaker 1: our Christmas Holiday Extravaganza Extraordinary episode. So Christmas time all hectic,

2794
02:33:43,200 --> 02:33:46,200
Speaker 1: everybody's unhappy, arguing, trying to get your kids in the

2795
02:33:46,200 --> 02:33:49,640
Speaker 1: car to go see Grandma. Listen, don't forget us. We're there.

2796
02:33:49,680 --> 02:33:52,920
Speaker 1: Our Christmas gift to you. We have a Christmas gift

2797
02:33:52,959 --> 02:33:56,480
Speaker 1: to you. We're doing a double episode drop where you

2798
02:33:56,480 --> 02:33:59,720
Speaker 1: get your regular podcast, which is the Christmas Extraordinaire. But

2799
02:33:59,760 --> 02:34:01,920
Speaker 1: then we're gonna we're gonna throw down and have a

2800
02:34:01,959 --> 02:34:06,800
Speaker 1: Monster Trivia showdown episodes. Right, I can't wait. Episode It

2801
02:34:06,800 --> 02:34:10,160
Speaker 1: means two episodes, two episodes in one week. Phil, he's

2802
02:34:10,160 --> 02:34:12,400
Speaker 1: not gonna have any time. I guess Spencer's running trivia.

2803
02:34:12,520 --> 02:34:15,640
Speaker 1: Spencer gonna run trivia. Wow, and you're we have a

2804
02:34:15,680 --> 02:34:19,080
Speaker 1: special guest Matt Runella for the Christmas specially Yeah, and

2805
02:34:19,080 --> 02:34:20,800
Speaker 1: he might be in on trivia. I don't know. But

2806
02:34:20,800 --> 02:34:27,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna debate social media, so a family argument, eggnog, ohole,

2807
02:34:27,160 --> 02:34:29,680
Speaker 1: kid caboodle. I can't wait, seem