Speaker 1: Ruby is definitely a queer space. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2: That was the first drag show I ever saw.
Speaker 1: I said, guys, wash your mouths out and get out
Speaker 1: of here.
Speaker 3: From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles in steamy
Speaker 3: Palm Springs, California, It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and
Speaker 3: this is silver lining with the old games.
Speaker 2: Have you ever been to a gay bar?
Speaker 3: Robert me, never, I've never even heard of such a thing. Nick,
Speaker 3: I can show you my play spaces.
Speaker 4: We're back, and hasn't silver Lining just been such a
Speaker 4: delightful space to share our memory, thoughts, feelings, musings.
Speaker 2: Ideas and all things gay.
Speaker 5: And oh, would you say this podcast is a queer
Speaker 5: space then, Robert.
Speaker 4: Well, yes, I would good.
Speaker 3: Today's episode is all about the queer spaces, gay places,
Speaker 3: and gathering spots that have supported us over the years
Speaker 3: and continue to do so today.
Speaker 2: Whether it's a venue, a club, or a weekly meeting group,
Speaker 2: these spaces can have a great influence on how comfortable
Speaker 2: we feel to let our authenticity bloom.
Speaker 4: And our free flag fly.
Speaker 3: So, fellows, what comes to mind when you think of
Speaker 3: queer spaces and how do you think they helped us?
Speaker 3: Become who we are.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: Certainly, I think bars and nightclubs of varying types have
Speaker 4: played an important part in most all of our lives
Speaker 4: because they've been places that we can meet other people
Speaker 4: like us, such as back in Saint Louis. It was
Speaker 4: not really until the seventies mid seventies that I became
Speaker 4: comfortable in the gay spaces because in the late sixties,
Speaker 4: when I was first exploring the gay world, the few
Speaker 4: bars that existed in Saint Louis, they were all controlled
Speaker 4: by the mafia that was well known in the community,
Speaker 4: and they were all places where you had enter from
Speaker 4: back alleys or dark parking lots, and they really weren't
Speaker 4: that comfortable, but if you wanted to meet other people
Speaker 4: like yourself, you were forced to go there.
Speaker 1: That sounds very primitive.
Speaker 4: It was very primitive, and I think a lot of
Speaker 4: it had to do with it being the Midwest. I
Speaker 4: just kind of exploded when I moved to San Francisco.
Speaker 4: Exploded in a good way.
Speaker 1: And I hope you brought a towel.
Speaker 3: One of the earlier memories for me was seeing drag.
Speaker 4: I don't think I ever witnessed a drag performance until
Speaker 4: well in to the nineteen eighties in San Francisco and there.
Speaker 1: You yeah, almost not everywhere.
Speaker 3: My first drag show was at the Go Go Club
Speaker 3: in downtown Chattanooga. I can't remember this queen's name, but
Speaker 3: I swear her legs were like ten feet tall and
Speaker 3: she would kick them and go up and split, and
Speaker 3: she had to be about sixty years old then, and
Speaker 3: I'm going, how's she doing all that? But now I know,
Speaker 3: don't we guys, We've learned all But that was cute
Speaker 3: being in my little church village and then sneaking out
Speaker 3: at twelve o'clock after room check and going downtown to Chattanooga.
Speaker 2: In San Francisco, I mean, the big star there was
Speaker 2: Charles Pierce, who was an absolute legend in his own time.
Speaker 2: He would be in a swing and he'd swing over
Speaker 2: the entire audience, back and forth and back and forth.
Speaker 2: And that was the first drag show I ever saw,
Speaker 2: and it was probably the best one I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: But I really didn't start out in bars because I'd
Speaker 2: just come out in Laguna Beach when I was sixteen
Speaker 2: years old. And my next step was Hollywood, and they
Speaker 2: had a wonderful coffee shop called the eighty seven twenty
Speaker 2: seven Melrose, and it was where young guys could go
Speaker 2: and meet without having any interference from the police or
Speaker 2: anything wandering the streets. So the eighty seven twenty seven
Speaker 2: was a big savior for me because I had no
Speaker 2: peers to talk about in high school and it really
Speaker 2: filled the bill. But in the seventies and in the Castro,
Speaker 2: the most popular place was the Midnight Sun where you
Speaker 2: could go and they played the greatest videos, short clips
Speaker 2: from Broadway shows, and it was just a fun place
Speaker 2: to be. It was just a really happy time in
Speaker 2: San Francisco.
Speaker 4: Wasn't that one of the first video bar's ever anywhere?
Speaker 1: Yeah? For me.
Speaker 5: The first bar I walked into in West Hollywood was
Speaker 5: in nineteen seventy eight, and it was a place called
Speaker 5: the Blue Parrot. It was the first of its kind
Speaker 5: west of the Mississippi. It was open windows, Florida ceiling
Speaker 5: windows that looked onto Santa Monica Boulevard and you could
Speaker 5: look into the bar to see who was there. And
Speaker 5: the windows were painted in a very tropical kind of
Speaker 5: scene of banana palms and that kind of stuff. So
Speaker 5: it was very inviting and it was the first place
Speaker 5: I saw Barchester guys behind the bar, and I knew
Speaker 5: some of them from, as it turns out, from the
Speaker 5: old Jim Morris Club that I was training at, which
Speaker 5: was the first openly gay gym in America, and that
Speaker 5: was opened by a man named Jim Morris who was
Speaker 5: an Olympic weightlifter. He went to the Olympics and he
Speaker 5: metaled and he was also the first professional bodybuilder.
Speaker 1: To come out.
Speaker 5: And he opened a gym hole in the wall gym
Speaker 5: behind the skating rink at Los Aenega in Santa Monica.
Speaker 5: There were coult models, professional porn stars, members of law enforcement.
Speaker 5: It was a bodybuilder's gay heaven. I met a lot
Speaker 5: of people there. You made dates and things like that,
Speaker 5: I mean, exchange recipes and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 5: But when you were on the gym floor, you worked out.
Speaker 5: It was a serious gym. It really shaped kind of
Speaker 5: who I am.
Speaker 4: Was there a big difference between gay gyms and straight gyms.
Speaker 1: Well, it was a lot more fun. It was a
Speaker 1: lot more naughty. I mean.
Speaker 5: For a few years I worked there at the front desk,
Speaker 5: and so I had to do what we called dick patrol,
Speaker 5: which means right before the gym closed, you had to
Speaker 5: go around to all the little nixing cannies around the gym,
Speaker 5: but particularly in the sauna. Never saw so many bodies
Speaker 5: just flying on the other side of the wall. And
Speaker 5: I said, guys, we're closing in fifteen minutes. Wash your
Speaker 5: mouths out and get out of here. That's what I
Speaker 5: used to say.
Speaker 2: And that was the Dick patrol.
Speaker 1: That was Dick patrol. We used to do Dick Patrol.
Speaker 3: Did you really tell them to wash their mouths out?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: Oh cute quick, and they probably needed that they.
Speaker 2: I have to tell you, I have never felt better
Speaker 2: in a queer space than during the seventies and dancing
Speaker 2: in San Francisco. I would get out there and I
Speaker 2: would just let myself go on the dance floor, and
Speaker 2: I absolutely loved it. I literally I was stepped out
Speaker 2: of the body that was Bill and into another person
Speaker 2: because it was just so exhilarating to be dancing with
Speaker 2: all these hundreds of men.
Speaker 4: It was that disco music. It was this into your blood.
Speaker 2: I mean, there were so many great places to go
Speaker 2: and dance, and I literally felt like I had an
Speaker 2: out of body experience when I was dancing. I just
Speaker 2: let it all go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, eight thousand club sparks for me and Miami. I
Speaker 3: will never forget walking in there in my little twenty
Speaker 3: eight inch waist jumpsuit white and the smell was in
Speaker 3: there and I'm like, we're going, what is this? And
Speaker 3: somebody heard me from around me and came just like
Speaker 3: pop something in my nose and I inhaled because let's
Speaker 3: just say, I dang. I was going, I went, what
Speaker 3: is it? It's pauper's man, I go wow. And then
Speaker 3: it came out on the other side and did the
Speaker 3: same thing. Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2: And you know, let's not forget when the bars closed
Speaker 2: and you hadn't picked up anyone. The natural place to
Speaker 2: go was the baths for me, especially on the weekends,
Speaker 2: and San Francisco had probably fifteen sixteen different bathhouses that
Speaker 2: time in the seventies, and they were extremely extremely popular.
Speaker 2: There was Rich Street south of Market, but then there
Speaker 2: was also Dave's Baths down at the end of Broadway
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, and that was always jammed with people.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really didn't when the baths all that much.
Speaker 5: There is one place that I hold very dear in
Speaker 5: my heart to me, however, and it was a place
Speaker 5: called Prowl. This place, Prowl was the creation of one
Speaker 5: Michael John. Inside it was like a three story building,
Speaker 5: and the entire building was gutted and instead this wonderful
Speaker 5: craftsman by the name of Michael Pereira, who was a
Speaker 5: cult model and a mister iml. He lives out here
Speaker 5: in the desert now and he built, literally rebuilt the
Speaker 5: set for mad Mes Thunderdome. And so when you walked in,
Speaker 5: you were transported to this wild world in which there
Speaker 5: were dark crawl splaces. It was built on three levels,
Speaker 5: and you took this big stairway up to the upper
Speaker 5: level where there were crawl spaces in dark rooms. But
Speaker 5: I remembered the very enter was like a jail, all
Speaker 5: made of wood, and inside was a sling. And so
Speaker 5: it was very much a place where the voyeurs and
Speaker 5: the players would meet, and there are just some wild
Speaker 5: nights about it. And I, like I said, I meant
Speaker 5: a lot of hot guys there. And then remember this
Speaker 5: is unlicensed, okay, this is like illegal okay. And there
Speaker 5: too you would meet not undercover but off duty law enforcement,
Speaker 5: because of course Michael was paying off the LAPD for it.
Speaker 5: So that's how things had changed.
Speaker 4: Times have changed.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to silver Linings with the old gays.
Speaker 4: What are some other queer spaces that have had an
Speaker 4: impact on your life?
Speaker 3: Church is definitely a queer space. It's wonderful, was it? It
Speaker 3: still is. Church is fun. People think of it as
Speaker 3: this is boring religious place, but gay people, we bring
Speaker 3: it all up. Every church I've been in is Luckily,
Speaker 3: I've been in churches that have been open to days
Speaker 3: and questioning because they didn't know a lot about it.
Speaker 3: My current church is the same way. My pastor is
Speaker 3: getting ready to go to a gay function that I'm
Speaker 3: attending just to understand it. But then I just found
Speaker 3: out his brother's gay too, huh.
Speaker 5: Speaking of Also about other public spaces, there's a place
Speaker 5: known as the One Institute, and it's based at USC
Speaker 5: and it is the first research library into queer life.
Speaker 5: And if you want to know the history of being
Speaker 5: queer in America, not just in America but around the world,
Speaker 5: there's an incredible resource library and it's a place to
Speaker 5: really understand the history of being queer. But the beauty
Speaker 5: of a gay bar or a place like the one institute.
Speaker 5: These are places where you could just be yourself with
Speaker 5: other people who were just being themselves.
Speaker 3: Because back when I was first entering gay spaces, you
Speaker 3: definitely experienced racism. This segregation was still there. When you
Speaker 3: walked in, you still got stared at and people made
Speaker 3: you feel like you weren't worth shit, why are you here?
Speaker 3: And it hurt. It hurt dearly because I would go
Speaker 3: in with this big smile, ready to go, and they
Speaker 3: would turn around if there were a bunch of people
Speaker 3: of color there, and so it was hard. But WHICH
Speaker 3: through it and kept going back. But I've seen it evolve.
Speaker 3: And the thing is, it's a two sided thing. It's
Speaker 3: a two sided thing. But someday I hope we get
Speaker 3: it in this country.
Speaker 5: Yeah, when I first moved to Los Angeles, this was
Speaker 5: a pretty racist place. And what changed it was the
Speaker 5: civil unrest.
Speaker 4: Well I know that even before I moved to California,
Speaker 4: the LA police had a reputation for targeting the gay community.
Speaker 5: I remember times actually where it wasn't safe in West Hollywood.
Speaker 5: The parking lot at the Jim Morris Club when it
Speaker 5: was the Athletic Club was on two sides of Westnell
Speaker 5: and I remember walking from the parking lot on West
Speaker 5: crossing the street to get to the entrance, and a
Speaker 5: car pulled up and a guy pointed a gun at me.
Speaker 5: And you know that that did exist, you know, and
Speaker 5: that's why these were places of real refuge for us.
Speaker 5: I don't think many people understand that now, you know,
Speaker 5: because especially here, because California has become so much more accommodating,
Speaker 5: because there are so many queer people here, you know,
Speaker 5: at other minorities, you know, I mean, we're literally a
Speaker 5: state of minorities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so we all have to get along with each.
Speaker 4: Other, and we all know we're in it together.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 4: You've often talked about activism throughout our conversations. Do you
Speaker 4: want to talk about how that was a space for community.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: It Actually what happens is is it kind of develops
Speaker 5: within a queer space and then it moved outside. Like
Speaker 5: my time at the athletic club coincided with AIDS, and
Speaker 5: I remember many times the guys in the gym were
Speaker 5: organizing the marches. And I also remember a demonstration in
Speaker 5: the early nineties where this is when Pete Wilson, then
Speaker 5: the governor of California, who said he was going to
Speaker 5: support gay rights and then then turned around and signed
Speaker 5: one of the most homophobic pieces of legislation. Basically he lied.
Speaker 5: And there were protests, and I remember marching down Santa
Speaker 5: Monica Boulevard, passed the gyms, and we marched down Los
Speaker 5: Sienega and into the Beverly Center and we all got
Speaker 5: in a huge circle in the Atrian and we owned
Speaker 5: for about ten minutes. And at that point I felt
Speaker 5: an energy I've never felt before, and I felt the
Speaker 5: strength that we never had before. And you know, in
Speaker 5: coalition with the Latinos who had been screwed over and
Speaker 5: by a lot of other people in the state. As
Speaker 5: a result of that, California is not a republican state anymore.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think when we're talking about being comfortable in
Speaker 4: public spaces, we can't overlook the pride parades and pride
Speaker 4: festivals that now exists throughout the country. But I know
Speaker 4: that the first Pride parade I experience was in nineteen eighty,
Speaker 4: right after I had a ride in San Francisco, and
Speaker 4: going down to Market Street and being among hundreds of
Speaker 4: thousands of your fellow human beings is one of the
Speaker 4: most uplift thing magical experiences I think you can possibly describe.
Speaker 4: And it's such a wonderful sight to see people in
Speaker 4: that number celebrating life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I remember I was at Palm Springs first
Speaker 3: one here it was so cute and short in about
Speaker 3: fifteen or twenty minutes at Ruth Hardie Park, and then
Speaker 3: was Long Beach their first one downtown. They were small,
Speaker 3: but they were so mighty, you know. And now to
Speaker 3: see how both both have grown a lot, it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: it's getting my la now.
Speaker 2: And especially the Palm Springs Parade too. There are so
Speaker 2: many straight people there that are just absolutely enjoying themselves
Speaker 2: and talking.
Speaker 4: About the Palm Springs Parade. I know you and I
Speaker 4: have talked about this before, but seeing the high school
Speaker 4: group of the Jay straight Alliances, these young people marching
Speaker 4: down the street, I go back to my high school
Speaker 4: days where I'd have been kicked out. But the straight
Speaker 4: gay alliances to me, are the highlight of the parade.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 4: What about any significant gay or queer owned spaces that
Speaker 4: stand out to you either today or throughout your life.
Speaker 5: Well, you know there are restaurants there or restaurants in
Speaker 5: Los Angeles that were gay owned. One of them that
Speaker 5: I was looking at was called the Academy, and the
Speaker 5: Academy was a leather uniform kind of a place.
Speaker 1: You go there for like Sunday Brunch and the Big one.
Speaker 5: Studio one, Hello Hello, Studio one, and the Batlot Hello,
Speaker 5: that was gay owned. Yeah, uh, like Studio fifty four
Speaker 5: was gayled. Studio one was in this big warehouse building
Speaker 5: in West Hollywood, and it had the first I'd ever
Speaker 5: seen of a circular urinal in the center. It also
Speaker 5: had giant reels like to look like movie reels like
Speaker 5: thirty five MILLI, you know, big prints, and they were
Speaker 5: always hanging from the rafters. And the light show was fantastic.
Speaker 5: And Studio one was experience. Studio One's the first secular
Speaker 5: show that I ever did. I was scared shitless. The
Speaker 5: owner didn't know who I was, but my partner went
Speaker 5: in and killed till the show. He goes, well, do
Speaker 5: you think you can fill it up? And he goes, yeah,
Speaker 5: So I filled up two shows in the back lin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the back line. There's lots of cameras. Oh my god.
Speaker 3: It was fun. It was It was I can't remember
Speaker 3: anything bigger in my life. Musically than that because it
Speaker 3: was the first the beginning, I had just gotten back
Speaker 3: from the Philippines. I had shown their pads out here
Speaker 3: wayts since everywhere it was it was cute. Oh and
Speaker 3: I had hair, and I had a ponytail, a ponytail. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the ear rings and the ponytail went away. But yes,
Speaker 3: oh thanks for bringing that up, Nick.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, Studio one was an experience and I've forgotten
Speaker 5: how much it's fun.
Speaker 1: I oh, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: As far as queer owned places in Palm Springs, there
Speaker 2: is one particular place that I have always loved and
Speaker 2: you can find anything gay in there, and that is
Speaker 2: the que Trading Company. I mean they have greeting cards,
Speaker 2: they have magazines, they have books, they have calendars, they
Speaker 2: have lube, they have poppers, they have dildo's. It's almost
Speaker 2: it's like a gay department store. You can get anything
Speaker 2: in the world there that you want that's gay. Where's
Speaker 2: that It's right down from the tool shed on the
Speaker 2: same side of the street, literally next door to the toolshed,
Speaker 2: has been there for years and years. I think it's
Speaker 2: next door to Gear.
Speaker 1: It's up from Gear. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 4: One of the things I enjoy so much particularly in uh,
Speaker 4: my neighborhood of the Cathedral City Cove is seeing how
Speaker 4: many houses display the Pride flag.
Speaker 2: Every day, all day long.
Speaker 4: And sometimes I'll get up on the roof of my
Speaker 4: house and I've just looked over the neighborhood and I
Speaker 4: see all of these Pride flags waving, and that gives
Speaker 4: me a really wonderful fear belonging.
Speaker 2: And also I think it's so great that at city
Speaker 2: Hall right now that they are putting up the Pride
Speaker 2: flag every morning.
Speaker 3: Because they are all pride and gay.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I would be remiss.
Speaker 5: I think we would be remiss in not mentioning the
Speaker 5: investment that Lance Bass has made in West Hollywood. He's
Speaker 5: bought a couple of bars, yeah things, and really helped
Speaker 5: to revive the street after COVID, because I don't know
Speaker 5: if you know, but COVID really devastated the small businesses
Speaker 5: in Los Angeles, and you know, the investment of somebody
Speaker 5: of Lance's stature in West Hollywood should be recognized.
Speaker 1: Plus he has a nice bar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and doesn't he also have an underwear store?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean he bought like three or four properties
Speaker 1: and that.
Speaker 4: What about online queer spaces I was reading where contrary
Speaker 4: to what we have been talking about, that actually today
Speaker 4: we are living in the golden age of gay liberation.
Speaker 1: And the reason why are three things.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to remember them prep okay, GPS, location okay,
Speaker 5: and dating apps. It doesn't matter whether you're on any
Speaker 5: of them. The fact that those three things are now
Speaker 5: a part of gay life means it's a freedom. It
Speaker 5: exists in cyberspace. It is a whole new world, and
Speaker 5: it has a whole different set of norms and values
Speaker 5: and language and lingo. And I'm just learning.
Speaker 2: And I really liked the old days of just walking
Speaker 2: into a bar and you could talk to someone and
Speaker 2: pick them up. But today it seems like the gays
Speaker 2: that go to bars, it's strictly a social kind of
Speaker 2: a thing and everyone is just talking together and everything.
Speaker 2: And then of course when you want to go home,
Speaker 2: first thing they do is they get onto the gay
Speaker 2: dating sites. And I really preferred meeting someone in person
Speaker 2: because on the gay dating sides, you don't really know
Speaker 2: what you're dealing with.
Speaker 3: Well, you should go to the toolshed, you should go
Speaker 3: to a lot, you should go to the toolshed, because
Speaker 3: behind the toolshale is a little business, the tools that's
Speaker 3: where you can plump.
Speaker 5: Down a little bit of money and go inside. And
Speaker 5: it's a sex club.
Speaker 2: Oh it's the one behind the antique mark.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: No, I'm through, you know, I'm my bi.
Speaker 5: When you were young, you pick up somebody at the
Speaker 5: toolshed and then you go over to the other place.
Speaker 1: That wings you don't have to bring that person home.
Speaker 5: Frequently, on the dating apps, I get these calls from
Speaker 5: guys saying, meet me at the Toolship and then we'll
Speaker 5: go next door.
Speaker 4: Really, yes, times haven't changed, really, no, heaven't.
Speaker 5: In closing, let's ask the question what is our silver
Speaker 5: lining about cultivating and being in queer spaces.
Speaker 2: Well, mine is strictly being comfortable and at ease with myself.
Speaker 2: That's what I love about it the most.
Speaker 4: And being able to discover who you are and interacting
Speaker 4: with really very interesting people.
Speaker 3: Them being around your people, Yeah, that makes the difference.
Speaker 3: So many people are lonely out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels natural to be among your friends.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: For me, it's just simply about being myself, which is
Speaker 5: a slut. Yeah I'm joking, not really.
Speaker 1: It's a place where you could be yourself.
Speaker 5: And where your friends are always alert to your needs.
Speaker 1: I guess because you've got to have friends. You gotta
Speaker 1: have friends.
Speaker 3: They're got friends.
Speaker 1: To make the day last long, hadsome friends. But they're gone.
Speaker 5: Someone came and took him away. But from the dusk
Speaker 5: until the dawn, here is where I'll stand.
Speaker 1: Yay, you're still you.
Speaker 3: Young people are saying, what's that?
Speaker 1: Thank you? Bet that alert?
Speaker 4: That's a wrap for today. Silver Linings is a production
Speaker 4: of Iheart's, Ruby's Studio and The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts.
Speaker 3: Bill Lyons, Robert Brieves, M Peterson, and Jesse Martin.
Speaker 4: Our executive producer is crar Kaiser. The episode was written
Speaker 4: by Ryan Amador with post production by Eric Zyler. Our
Speaker 4: theme music was composed by Matt Hirchinau, with audio direction
Speaker 4: and design Matt Still And. If you're having fun with us,
Speaker 4: please subscribe to follow along and don't forget to rate
Speaker 4: and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks
Speaker 4: for listening.
Speaker 3: All we do is spend our lives at doctors now.
Speaker 4: I tried all kinds of hair restoration products.
Speaker 3: Don't work? Does it?
Speaker 1: Our younger listeners are leal fun. This is what I
Speaker 1: have to look forward to sleep,