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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane

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Speaker 1: Never told you production. I heart radio. Today. We were

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Speaker 1: so excited to once again be joined by Bridget Todd,

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Speaker 1: one of our very favorite human people. Hello, Bridget, Hello,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me back. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: be here. We're so excited to have you, and some

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Speaker 1: congratulations are in order. Thank you podcast Royalty. Well I

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Speaker 1: know about that, but I did recently get the news

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Speaker 1: that I am a winner of a Shorty Award for

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Speaker 1: Best Podcast Miniseries, and I'm super excited about it. So

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Speaker 1: thank you. Congrats as you deserve because you've worked so

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Speaker 1: hard on your series and I feel like we have

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Speaker 1: been so blessed for the lack of better terms, for

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Speaker 1: having you as a part of a monthly regular I

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Speaker 1: can't say it enough. Thank you so much again for

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Speaker 1: just christening our feed with your delightful series. Oh please,

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Speaker 1: I it is my pleasure and it's it's been such

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Speaker 1: a fun project to work on and honestly, getting to

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Speaker 1: tell the stories of like interesting people who do interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just been such a blessing. So thank you.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it, and thank you for continuing to

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Speaker 1: you know, have me on Smiththy to hang out with

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Speaker 1: y'all one. You're always a delight and we love having you.

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Speaker 1: But to you always bring up such fascinating and worthwhile topics,

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Speaker 1: and the one you brought today is one that I

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Speaker 1: wasn't very familiar with. I had like a surface level idea,

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Speaker 1: and reading more about it, I wasn't too surprised with

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Speaker 1: any of the information, but I didn't know a lot

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Speaker 1: about it. So I'm very excited that you brought this

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Speaker 1: topic today so that we can all learn more. So

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Speaker 1: what did you bring us to talk about? So today

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Speaker 1: I really am excited to talk about what's going on

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Speaker 1: with at picking. Anybody who's been reading the news for

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years probably knows that we're in

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Speaker 1: the middle of like what you might think of as

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Speaker 1: a moral panic around trafficking. I remember was it last

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Speaker 1: year where claims on the platform TikTok went viral that

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Speaker 1: the furniture retailer Wayfarer was trafficking children on their online

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Speaker 1: site that if you bought, you know, a cabinet that

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Speaker 1: had the name Maria, the price was exorbited and that

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Speaker 1: meant that you were actually buying a missing person named Maria.

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Speaker 1: This was all bunked, This was not true. But these

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Speaker 1: claims have been going viral lately, and if you spend

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Speaker 1: any time at all on the platform TikTok, you've probably

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Speaker 1: seen a video that has hundreds of thousands of views

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Speaker 1: where young women are talking about kind of almost being

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Speaker 1: kidnapped or almost being trafficked. Usually it's like they were

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Speaker 1: shopping at a big box retailer like Target or Walmart,

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Speaker 1: and somebody got too close to them, or somebody did

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Speaker 1: something weird to them, or they went out to their

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Speaker 1: car and something weird was on their car, and they'll

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Speaker 1: make these videos kind of claiming that this thing that

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Speaker 1: happened meant that they were almost targets of kidnapping, like

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Speaker 1: a forced kidnapping, and could have ended up being trafficked.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, those videos, I can really understand why women

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Speaker 1: make them, and I don't want to I want to

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Speaker 1: be very clear, I'm not like blaming these women. I

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Speaker 1: can really understand that they're responding to a genuine feeling

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Speaker 1: of discomfort that I think many women feel when we're

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Speaker 1: just going out about in our daily lives. But those

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Speaker 1: videos are actually kind of dangerous because they actually can

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Speaker 1: perpetuate misinformation about trafficking that actually silences and harms people

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Speaker 1: who are actually being victims of trafficking. So it's something

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Speaker 1: that I didn't really know a ton about either until

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Speaker 1: downloading TikTok at the urging of my younger cousins. So

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Speaker 1: I am a little bit older for the platform, but

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Speaker 1: you know, and really sort of scrolling through and being like, wow,

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Speaker 1: these videos make it seem as though, if you are

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Speaker 1: a young woman, anytime you leave your house you should

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Speaker 1: be afraid. Anytime you go shopping, you should be afraid

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Speaker 1: that it is likely that you will be kidnapped by

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Speaker 1: a stranger. And that's just something I think that we

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Speaker 1: should be unpacking and and really asking a few questions about, right,

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Speaker 1: And recently on your podcast, Bridget you dug into this correct,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So I have to give major, major shout

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Speaker 1: outs to one of my favorite podcasters, Michael Hobbs, the

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Speaker 1: podcast You're Wrong About. If you're not listening to You're

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Speaker 1: wrong about, what are you doing with your life? Because

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Speaker 1: it's such a good podcast. Cannot recommend it enough. They

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Speaker 1: actually have a recent episode about the Dixie or that

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Speaker 1: they used to be the Dixie Chicks. Now that's the

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Speaker 1: Chicks that is so phenomenal, please listen to it. But

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Speaker 1: Michael Hobbs was a guest on my podcast to talk

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Speaker 1: about trafficking and trafficking myths, and they have a great

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Speaker 1: episode that breaks down where these trafficking myths come from.

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Speaker 1: So major shout out to them and definitely check out

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Speaker 1: their podcast and if you want to hear Michael in

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Speaker 1: conversation with me, check out the episode that we did

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Speaker 1: because I think it was great. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: we are living through this really wild time where people

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Speaker 1: are anxious. You know, there's the pandemic, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: political and social unrest, and in times of that kind

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Speaker 1: of unrest, I think it's not surprising that people look

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Speaker 1: for an outside boogeyman who is often like the other

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Speaker 1: and so you know, maybe it's a stand in for

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Speaker 1: like immigrants or you know, people of color, like trans people,

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Speaker 1: like some kind of boogeyman that you need to be

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Speaker 1: afraid of. I think in times of anxiety, historically people

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Speaker 1: turn to someone to kind of blame their anxieties on.

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Speaker 1: So it's not surprising to me that we're kind of

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Speaker 1: living through this this time where everybody is on edge

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Speaker 1: and really warning about being kidnapped, being traffic, you know,

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Speaker 1: and sort of creating this kind of like moral panic

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Speaker 1: around it. Yeah, this episode he brought to this has

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Speaker 1: given me a lot to mull over that I've kind

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Speaker 1: of been thinking through my head anyway, and I just

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Speaker 1: have a lot of complicated thoughts and what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about is fairly complicated. And as we're like slowly entering

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Speaker 1: back into the world, or at least in my case,

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Speaker 1: for like went outside and went somewhere for the first

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Speaker 1: time a long time, I've just forgotten that like performance

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Speaker 1: and weight of just being someone and a woman walking

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Speaker 1: around outside, and it felt so suffocating, like I know

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Speaker 1: it was before that, but just that kind of sudden difference.

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Speaker 1: But I've been thinking about, Yeah, that that blaming of

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Speaker 1: the other, the boogeyman and how on in a kind

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Speaker 1: of messed up way. That's simpler and easier than talking

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Speaker 1: about these systemic issues of sexism and racism and homophobia,

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Speaker 1: and how not dealing with those because they're difficult helps

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Speaker 1: prop up those things like rape culture. Like it's like,

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Speaker 1: keep your attention on this boogeyman that is pretty rare

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Speaker 1: instead of dealing with why do we feel this way

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Speaker 1: at all? Why is it easy for women to feel

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Speaker 1: like they're going to be kidnapped or attacked? So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's been something on my mind. And then just the

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Speaker 1: whole thing with Q and On, which we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about also, where that's a big part of their whole

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Speaker 1: thing is really selling this idea of protecting children from

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Speaker 1: these really unsavory fates and how successful they've been with

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Speaker 1: that messaging. So yeah, there's just a lot going on

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Speaker 1: to unpack and untangle and what we're talking about today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I know that we were talking about

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Speaker 1: it before we started recording. We're like, oh and uh,

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Speaker 1: I began with don't get me started, which is hilarious

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Speaker 1: because Bridget You've got me started. But yeah, one of

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Speaker 1: the conversations that you when I are having was about

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Speaker 1: the mere fact that they take sensationalized ideas, grow it bigger,

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Speaker 1: essentially and make it impossible for regular cases. And I

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Speaker 1: say regular in quotes in the aspect of what is

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Speaker 1: more common to actually be able to do something or

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Speaker 1: get any kind of justice, including things like in rape culture,

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Speaker 1: when we see most of the times that victims know

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Speaker 1: the air attackers or know the people who are coming

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Speaker 1: after them. And it's the same way in trafficking, but instead,

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Speaker 1: because we have to have this big boogeyman, it gets

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Speaker 1: harder and harder to talk about the disinformation and getting

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Speaker 1: actual justice. Have you been able to kind of decipher

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Speaker 1: how that can be taken down? That's a great question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that you're exactly right. Both of

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Speaker 1: you are exactly right. I think that it is so

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Speaker 1: much harder and storn ear to say, you know, the

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Speaker 1: issue is that quote unquote normal regular men can be

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Speaker 1: creepers and can make women feel really uncomfortable just in

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Speaker 1: they're just out in public. And that's a problem when

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Speaker 1: we need to call that out, or that we live

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Speaker 1: in a society where men who are in our own

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Speaker 1: homes can sometimes be the ones who are perpetuating not

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Speaker 1: great stuff. And I think it's so much easier to

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, here's this boogeyman who's doing it. He's

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Speaker 1: a stranger in a van with a hat and a mustache.

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Speaker 1: Like that's you know, it's so much easier and clearer

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Speaker 1: cut to point to that, even though the stranger in

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Speaker 1: a van is so much less likely to be the

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Speaker 1: person who is going to do you that kind of harm.

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Speaker 1: And I also think you know, sam as as a

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Speaker 1: juvenile justice advocate, you and I both know that some

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Speaker 1: of the systems that can perpetuate harm against children are

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Speaker 1: things like foster care systems, you know, like those systems

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Speaker 1: that are there for you know, vulnerable youth. Those systems

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Speaker 1: are the ones that can really be perpetuating this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. Yet it's so hard, Like I think a

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Speaker 1: conversation about abuse in the foster care system is so

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Speaker 1: much less exciting and sensational than a guy in a

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Speaker 1: van taken style, you know, putting a pillow case over

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Speaker 1: your head while you're shopping and putting you in a van.

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Speaker 1: Like I can understand why that is what people gravitate

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Speaker 1: towards when they talk about trapp I can completely understand it,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't do us anything good because when someone

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Speaker 1: says to you, you know, oh, this person that I trusted,

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Speaker 1: I had this weird experience with them, or you know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm being groomed. You're we're gonna all

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Speaker 1: be primed to be like, well, no, trafficking is when

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Speaker 1: someone snatches you from a target against your will. It's

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Speaker 1: not something that you're coerced into or groomed into, or

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Speaker 1: that someone that you knew could get you involved in,

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Speaker 1: you know, over a course of time. And it makes

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Speaker 1: us so much more primed to see something that is

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Speaker 1: actually really rare and makes it more difficult for us

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Speaker 1: to see the thing that is actually happening all around us.

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Speaker 1: And I get it, I get why that happens, and

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Speaker 1: I think it doesn't help that the way that social

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Speaker 1: media algorithms work, they really prioritize big moment And so

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Speaker 1: that's why if you ever are on like Facebook or

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Speaker 1: Instagram and you announced a pregnancy or an engagement, your

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Speaker 1: post will get lots and lots and lots of likes

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Speaker 1: because the algorithm knows this is a big moment. The

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Speaker 1: same is true for big moments of con it. So,

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Speaker 1: somebody making a video about how they were, you know,

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Speaker 1: almost kidnapped in a parking lot and you know, thank

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Speaker 1: god they weren't, that's gonna get so much more engagement

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Speaker 1: and so many more eyeballs than someone being like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need to unpack the gross things that happen in

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Speaker 1: our foster care system that are really systemic and bad.

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Speaker 1: That's not going to get the same out of eyeballs, right,

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Speaker 1: And I mean, let's just get down to the breast

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Speaker 1: text of it all. Especially when it comes to marginalized communities,

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Speaker 1: which is who largely affects, they become no longer the

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Speaker 1: victim but the perpetrators. And we've talked about this previously

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Speaker 1: when we talked about when they use terms like child prostitute,

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Speaker 1: which is a term like, let's just leave that out there.

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Speaker 1: But because of that, they have this divide on who's

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Speaker 1: a victim and who's not. And of course they want

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Speaker 1: to and I say they as an overall conspiracy theorists

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Speaker 1: want to highlight white women. Let's just go ahead and

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Speaker 1: say that as the true victims and who need to

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Speaker 1: be protected and white children. And we know, and we

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Speaker 1: talked about this before the Q and on aspect that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what was perpetuated in the media was how

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Speaker 1: it differentiated this is a true victim and you see

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Speaker 1: this angelic white child or angelic white woman. I say

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Speaker 1: angelic because you know whatever, versus who truly are the

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Speaker 1: victims and who they're willing to see as victims. And

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Speaker 1: when we talk about the fosphter care systems, oftentimes they're

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Speaker 1: dismissed in general. Do you want to talk about the

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Speaker 1: sad orphans? But the orphans they want to talk about

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Speaker 1: is again the Annie orphan who seems so cute and

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Speaker 1: so sweet and so white. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: That they don't get the attention and they don't get

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Speaker 1: the respect and justice that this conspiracy ideas we must

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Speaker 1: fight for these people that don't exist. Why is that?

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Speaker 1: I kind of answer your question, but I think you, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you kind of answered your own question. I think it

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Speaker 1: is so much easier to believe in this bs bin

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Speaker 1: area of sort of perfect victims and anything that does

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Speaker 1: not promote the idea of like angelic white kids and

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Speaker 1: angelic white women, those are the true victim and all

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Speaker 1: that we know that's not true. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: politically very convenient to have those folks be the face

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Speaker 1: of trafficking because it allows, I mean, I hate to

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Speaker 1: say this, it allows legislators to make legislation that cracks

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Speaker 1: down on other marginalized communities that they already don't like.

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Speaker 1: And so if you look at things like Sesta Fosta,

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Speaker 1: that was legislation that was purported to sort of crack

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Speaker 1: down on sex traffickers and made it so that social

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Speaker 1: media platforms would be held liable if their platforms were

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Speaker 1: used in support of sex trafficking. But what they actually

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Speaker 1: did was they conflated consensual sex work and trafficking, and

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Speaker 1: those are two different things, right, and so but this legislation,

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Speaker 1: they were all just lumped together. And so this legislation

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Speaker 1: that was actually you know that that was purported to

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Speaker 1: be legislation to crack down on trafficking, actually one criminalized

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Speaker 1: a group that's already marginalized, sex workers and to actually

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Speaker 1: made trafficking potentially worse because sex workers are people who

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Speaker 1: actually know the signs of when someone's being traffic they

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Speaker 1: know what to look out for. And if you further

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Speaker 1: criminalize this community that actually has the tools to speak

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Speaker 1: up and say something when they see something that they

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Speaker 1: know is not right, if you make it so that

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Speaker 1: they can't speak up, you're actually harming people who are

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Speaker 1: actually being trafficed. And so I think it's I think

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Speaker 1: it is complicated, but I think that you're exactly right

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Speaker 1: that there are so many forces, both like politically and

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Speaker 1: also sort of just culturally and socially that are interested

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Speaker 1: in having the victim quote unquote be angelic white children

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Speaker 1: or angelic white women, and not the reality that it's

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Speaker 1: you know, people who are marginalized, people who are struggling

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Speaker 1: with homelessness, substance abuse issues, people in the foster care system,

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Speaker 1: people who have just recently migrated to the country, you know,

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Speaker 1: lgbt Q youth, trans youth, queer youth. Those are the

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Speaker 1: people who are most likely at risk. And this idea

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Speaker 1: that the way that we've allowed largely white, affluent people

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Speaker 1: to take up so much space in the conversation around

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Speaker 1: what trafficking looks like really does a disservice to the

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Speaker 1: people who are actually impact as I it. I know

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Speaker 1: bridget you and I have talked about before, would take

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Speaker 1: it did come out and my dad like called me

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Speaker 1: as though this was a documentary and I needed to

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Speaker 1: be very concerned. And but that's what we see in

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Speaker 1: our entertainment is kind of that idea of like, yes,

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Speaker 1: the stranger danger usually white, young white woman. And then

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about social media and these things getting

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Speaker 1: more and more eyeballs, and if you're seeing that over

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Speaker 1: and over, then in your mind you think, oh, this

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Speaker 1: must be more common than I thought. And then on

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Speaker 1: top of that. Not only is it often like not helpful,

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Speaker 1: it's often completely wrong. Oh absolutely that I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: that you brought that up. First, I want to say

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Speaker 1: that my dad did the same thing. The first time

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Speaker 1: I was going out of the country. He was like,

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Speaker 1: I want to show you this. He called it a documentary.

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Speaker 1: He was like, I want to tell you this documentary

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Speaker 1: film about about staying safe abroad. And it was taken.

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is not a documentary, but I

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Speaker 1: do think that it is. This is just my anecdotal opinion.

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Speaker 1: I think that we are really consumed by media right

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Speaker 1: now that like is about crime, right, Like the popularity

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Speaker 1: of things like true crime podcast. I think that women

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Speaker 1: are being told do not leave your house. It is

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Speaker 1: not safe. You could be outside getting your mail and

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Speaker 1: someone can snatch you and that will be it, right,

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Speaker 1: Like keep your guard up, keep your guard up, and listen.

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Speaker 1: I love a good true crime documentary or true crime

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Speaker 1: podcast as much as anybody. I am not I love them.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not saying that that that they're bad,

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Speaker 1: but I do think that when you're consumed by that

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Speaker 1: as a as a as a culture, this it kind

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Speaker 1: of can warp what you think of as reality. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it's like if you are consuming that kind of content,

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Speaker 1: that that tells you, you know, there's a danger out

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Speaker 1: there all the time on the backdrop of living through

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Speaker 1: a time that is really you know, anxiety provoking with

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Speaker 1: the pandemic and all this unrest, Like, I can see

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Speaker 1: how that could color how we're thinking about issues like trafficking,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, it typically it's one of those things that

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Speaker 1: typically when you do any digging or follow up, these

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Speaker 1: stories that you see that go viral often are not

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Speaker 1: what they seem like. The one that's that comes to

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Speaker 1: mind right now as this woman Katie sorens In. She

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Speaker 1: was a mom influencer who went by the handle Motherhood

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Speaker 1: Essentials on Instagram, and she went viral. She made this

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Speaker 1: video where she said that she had been shopping in

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Speaker 1: a Michael's craft store and this couple tried to kidnap

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Speaker 1: her kids and the video was terrifying. She says that

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Speaker 1: she was shopping she overheard these this couple who she

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Speaker 1: described as like looking quote not polished, So I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't I was like unclear of what that what

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Speaker 1: kind of coded phrase that was? But and she said

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Speaker 1: that she overheard them talking about her kids appearance while

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Speaker 1: she was shopping, and so, you know, if I was

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Speaker 1: a mom and I heard that, I would be losing

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Speaker 1: my mind, right, I would be really upset. She then

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Speaker 1: said that the man tried to grab her stroller with

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Speaker 1: her child in it, and that she screamed or something

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Speaker 1: and somebody walked by, and that they got in their

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Speaker 1: car and sped off, and so she made this video.

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Speaker 1: She told the police that she did not want this

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Speaker 1: couple arrested, that she just wanted to make a report

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Speaker 1: so that she could spread awareness. She made this video.

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Speaker 1: The video went viral and got over two million views.

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Speaker 1: Only she had it completely wrong. After her video went viral,

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Speaker 1: people were circulating the picture of this couple around and

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Speaker 1: this couple didn't even know there was a problem until

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Speaker 1: someone told them that their picture was being circulated on

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Speaker 1: one of those Saved the Children Facebook groups, which is

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Speaker 1: pretty scary to These people are kind of wild and

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Speaker 1: if they if they think that that they're circulating your

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Speaker 1: picture saying that you tried to kidnap a baby, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty scary. And so this couple completely, you know, cooperated

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Speaker 1: with the police. So the couple I feel so bad

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Speaker 1: for them. They they were like an elderly Latino couple

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Speaker 1: and they were grandparents themselves, and they said, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: this woman she thought that she heard us talking about

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Speaker 1: her kids. We were talking about our own grandkids. We

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Speaker 1: were shopping for our grandkids. And so they were completely

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Speaker 1: cleared of any wrongdoing. And this woman is actually now

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Speaker 1: being charged with giving false information to the police. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know what was in her mind when she

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Speaker 1: did this. It's it's possible that she was actually genuinely

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Speaker 1: afraid or feeling some kind of fear. But I do

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Speaker 1: think that when you get social media involved, because we

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Speaker 1: know algorithms are poised to make this specific kind of

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Speaker 1: content get lots and lots of views, you really got

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Speaker 1: to be careful. So I'm not I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: if anybody has an experience like this that they should

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Speaker 1: not broadcasted to the world via social media, but just

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Speaker 1: really think it through, because you could be really endangering

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Speaker 1: somebody else. Like this couple having their their picture and

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Speaker 1: I saved the children Facebook group. That is not a

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Speaker 1: safe situation for them, right, And so I think that

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Speaker 1: people should really be thoughtful about how they talk about trafficking,

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Speaker 1: because so often the kinds of viral videos and viral

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Speaker 1: claims that you see about trafficking just aren't true. They

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Speaker 1: fall apart under scrutiny, right, And that's the other part

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Speaker 1: of this. Let's say it was true, she could have

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Speaker 1: messed up her case in general and trying to go

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Speaker 1: after this because she's already prepped these people into saying

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Speaker 1: what they needed to say, so none of this it

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Speaker 1: was wrong. I remember to this video because they actually

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Speaker 1: went all the way through releasing security video showing that

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Speaker 1: they had actually stayed in the store when she said

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Speaker 1: they ran to buy something. They were at the checkout

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Speaker 1: counter talking to the checkout lady, not knowing what's going on,

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Speaker 1: had no interactions, there was no screaming, Like I remember going,

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Speaker 1: why like that wasn't Did she not realize stores have

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Speaker 1: security cameras. I'm very confused and what she was thinking

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Speaker 1: as well. But in a matter of fact, as many

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Speaker 1: cases that I've been on when I worked with the

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Speaker 1: Department Disambling Children's Services, any case of molestation and such

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Speaker 1: that would have ruined it right there, because it's already

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Speaker 1: difficult to prove a case. It is almost impossible to

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Speaker 1: get any kind of justice in general when it comes

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Speaker 1: to things like that, and has she had done that video,

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Speaker 1: had this actually had happened and they had gotten the

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Speaker 1: heads up, they could have easily just thrown out this

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Speaker 1: case because she screwed it up. Let's just be very

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Speaker 1: honest about that. This is what I think. It's part

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Speaker 1: of the problem. And I know you you now know

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Speaker 1: as you're talking of it is people sensationalized and see

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Speaker 1: movies and think this is how it goes. When it

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Speaker 1: comes to the reality is no, if you do half

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Speaker 1: the things that you do in movies, you've already up

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Speaker 1: the entire case and there's no justice to be had.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad to hear you say this. Michael Hobbs

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Speaker 1: and I talked about this. I do think that there's

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Speaker 1: something about movies and true crime content that is making

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Speaker 1: us think that, you know, vigilante justice. I need to

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Speaker 1: hunt down these bad guys, and like I have the

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00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: idea of hunting down bad guys sounds cool. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand why people like why that is something that seems compelling,

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Speaker 1: But it's not like the movies. Right. In reality, the

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Speaker 1: road to justice, unfortunately, can be very tenuous and so

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Speaker 1: it is not like the movies. I think that this

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Speaker 1: kind of content really gives a false impression of what

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Speaker 1: the process of seeking justice for this kind of crime

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Speaker 1: actually looks like. And if people did half the things

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Speaker 1: that you hear about on movies or that get turned

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Speaker 1: into life, I mean, I love a Lifetime movie. If

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Speaker 1: people have half of that stuff, they would actually be

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Speaker 1: jeopardizing their own case. So not a good strategy to

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Speaker 1: get your advice from Lifetime movies, as entertaining as they

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Speaker 1: may be. Those But you know, speaking of not realistic,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of these things are also perpetuated

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Speaker 1: by urban myth type of posts that we see not

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Speaker 1: only on techtok, because I'm not on tektok I'm not

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Speaker 1: cool enough for that yet, but like on Facebook, I've

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Speaker 1: seen so many posts where it says if the cheese

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of this one? Y'all? Oh? Yes? So

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Speaker 1: apparently there was a woman who stated that she found

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Speaker 1: a slice of cheese on her car and because it

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Speaker 1: can ruin the paint and you can't just pill it off,

431
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: she had to sit there and scrape it off. But

432
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: she had quote unquote the good sense of calling someone

433
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: to help her, and it turned out supposedly there it

434
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: was a another car watching her so that when she

435
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 1: got out to get the cheese off, they could kidnap her.

436
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: Was and it went violent. I don't know if you're viold,

437
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: but it went big enough that would be repost this,

438
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: repost this, let everyone know, And I'm just like, what

439
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: have I missed something? Maybe I haven't been out enough.

440
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: But post like that also perpetuate these types of stereotypes

441
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: or kind of fearmongering. I would guess, oh absolutely. And

442
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: to be clear, this is not new. When I was

443
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: in high school, before social media was ever even really

444
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: a thing, I used to hear all kind ends of stories.

445
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 1: You know, somebody is gonna be waiting under your car

446
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: with a razor blade to slice your ankles, you know,

447
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: the the old story of I mean, I might be

448
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: dating myself. I don't know if if people even know

449
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 1: the story, but the the urban legend of a woman

450
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: driving at night and a guy is driving behind her

451
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: and he keeps flashing his high beams and really, and

452
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: so she thinks this guy's this guy is trying to

453
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: murder me, And in reality, he's flashing his high beams

454
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 1: to warn her that there's a bad guy in her

455
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: back seat. So this is not new, but with social media,

456
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: these things can really go viral. And so it's one

457
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: thing if this is an urban legend being passed around

458
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: you know, your home room or whatever in high school.

459
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: It's another thing when it can get when it is

460
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: optimized by platforms to get thousands and thousands and thousands

461
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 1: of views and to spread really quickly. And so a

462
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: couple of things to point out about that. Pretty much,

463
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,719
Speaker 1: if you ever hear someone say, oh, this is a

464
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: new tactic that traffickers are using, that should perk your

465
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: ears right up, because it is likely that you're about

466
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: to hear something that is total b s because just

467
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: use common sense. Doesn't make sense that that traffickers would

468
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: have some kind of a you know, code that they

469
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: write on your car to signal to another trafficker something

470
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 1: about you. Doesn't make sense that all of this stuff

471
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: will be happening in the parking lot of a major retailer,

472
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: most of which in this day and age, are being recorded.

473
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: I just you just really, when you think about these claims,

474
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: even though they sound very compelling, if you if you

475
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: really give them some thought, it's like, oh, that doesn't

476
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: actually make a lot of sense. So if it doesn't

477
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: make sense, it's probably not happening. Another thing to say

478
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: is that what we know about how untrue information spreads

479
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: on the internet, disinformation is when someone is making up

480
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: a story purposely to fool you or to trick you,

481
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: ort to call some kind of harm. They're doing it

482
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: on purpose. Misinformation is different because people are spreading information

483
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: that they don't know, you know, is whether or not

484
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: it's true or not. They're not necessarily trying to cause harm.

485
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: They're probably just trying to warn their community, and they're

486
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: sort of thinking, you know, better safe than sorry. If

487
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: this helps somebody gray, If not, who cares? And I

488
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: can understand why people are sharing information just to sort

489
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: of generally warn people about things they hear. But again,

490
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: it really does add to this this unshrewd idea of

491
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: what trafficking really looks like. So, no, putting somebody putting

492
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: cheese on your car is not a way to mark

493
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: you as a trafficking victim. Somebody putting a zip tie

494
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: or or a something on your car handle pretty much

495
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: anything that says that where someone is doing something to

496
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: your car as a way to mark you for trafficking

497
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: is not happening. And I see so many stories on

498
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: local news sites, you know, where people are like, oh,

499
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: well this my hometown local news website said that the

500
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: police said that they were investigating. And honestly, this is

501
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 1: a such a situation where I think people that have

502
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: institutional power, like the police, like journalists, need to take

503
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: a little bit more responsibility and don't just write up

504
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: a story and you know, quick publish without really doing

505
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: your due diligence, because the police saying they're in estigating

506
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: is different than them saying, yes, this is a confirmed

507
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: trafficking attempt. They are correct, right, And so I see

508
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: a lot of hometown local journalistic outlets that you know,

509
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: essentially will write an entire article about the fact that

510
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: somebody found a you know, bag on their car, or

511
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: or that somebody found a string on their car. And

512
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: I think that we should be asking people that have

513
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: that kind of institutional power whether or not they are

514
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: contributing to this this these misunderstandings about trafficking. Right. Like,

515
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: one of the stories that I that I saw that

516
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: when viral was this parking lot where someone found a

517
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: flower on their car and they were like, oh my god,

518
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm about to be traffic. And it turned out that

519
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: these people have had a wedding or something and they

520
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: had all these extra flowers and so they were like, oh,

521
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: it'll be nice, and we put them on people's cars,

522
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: and so that that wasn't worth it to write a

523
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: whole article about this misunderstanding when you know, the correction

524
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: will never get as much attention as the false claim.

525
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: The false claim will go viral, the correction will will

526
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: barely be seen by anybody, right, And that's the whole

527
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: like clickbait, you know what? What sells um conversation and yeah, yeah,

528
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: I I remember when I was in high school, there

529
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 1: was a rule you weren't allowed to wear shirts with

530
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: your name on them because the idea was someone could

531
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: pretend they knew your parents or they knew your guardians,

532
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, oh, hey Annie, they told me

533
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: I can pick you up. But then that's the end.

534
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: No one sees you again. And just the idea that

535
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: they're like telling this the tons. Okay, I don't know

536
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: that I get it. I totally get it, but a

537
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: part of it does feel very like this is the

538
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: society we're in. You have to deal with it. It's

539
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: on you to protect yourself. But Okay, we've talked a

540
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: lot about what trafficking isn't. Can we talk about some

541
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: more about what it is? Oh? Absolutely, I'm so glad

542
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: that you asked. So this is from a great resource

543
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: called the Polaris Project. They have so much good information

544
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: about trafficking out there, so definitely check them out if

545
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: you're interested. This is from their site. They say it

546
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: can happen to anyone, or is happening in your backyard

547
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: are common in the anti human trafficking field. Technically they're true.

548
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: Anyone could be trafficked in any community, just as anybody

549
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: can be the victim of any kind of crime. But

550
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: the real story is why it can happen to anyone.

551
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: Available evidence suggests that people of color and l g

552
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: B t Q plus people are more likely to be

553
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: traffic than any other demographic of group. That is not

554
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: a coincidence. Generational trauma, historic oppression, discrimination, and other societal factors,

555
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: and any qualities can create community wide vulnerabilities. Traffickers recognize

556
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: and take advantage of people who are vulnerable in certain ways,

557
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: and so trafficking can look like a lot of things.

558
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: Most of the time, it looks like somebody who is

559
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: vulnerable because of some issue being taken advantage of, coerced

560
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: or groomed. It oft sometimes it can be people that

561
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, people that you trust, people in your community,

562
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: people in your own house. It is really unlikely that

563
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: anyone would be trafficked by a stranger kidnapping them from

564
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: a public place. I want to be clear that I'm

565
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: not saying that never happens, but it is very very

566
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: rare instances where that has happened, is you can count

567
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: them on one hand. It is. It is very rare.

568
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: So again, anything could happen to anyone. We live in

569
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: a chaotic world where things can happen, but we need

570
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: to be clear about what is more likely and what

571
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: is not very likely. And as Sam said, you know,

572
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: the foster care system is like rife with trafficking, and

573
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: really it's it's situations where someone is vulnerable and there's

574
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: a power imbalance. The Polaryer's Project that's a really good

575
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: job of laying this out. So if you are a

576
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: person dealing with homelessness, somebody offering you, you know, a

577
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: place to stay, a place to sleep, that kind of thing, right,

578
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: Like we have really really misunderstood the way that trafficking

579
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: actually looks in favor of this highly sensationalized view of

580
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: people being kidnapped. So, you know, we really need to

581
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: be having the conversation of what it actually looks like.

582
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: And oftentimes it's runaways, it's people with substance abuse issues,

583
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: it's lgbt Q youth, people dealing with homelessness. You know,

584
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: folks who are are already marginalized and already dealing with

585
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: some of this, some of this kind of tough stuff,

586
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: people in tough situations. I mean, there's a reason why

587
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: a majority of the group of individuals are called at

588
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: risk because it's not just necessarily that they're at risk

589
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: of being homeless, it's all of these things that lay

590
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: on top of them. And then, just like you said,

591
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: they're either coerce or groomed, and more oftentimes groomed by

592
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: someone they trust and they've built a bond with and

593
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: not realizing that this is something that happens. It flips

594
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: so quick, especially in justice system, especially in politics, where

595
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: it goes from victim once again to the perpetrator. When

596
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: we call these victims no longer victims because they refused

597
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: to admit there groomed. That happens way more often than not.

598
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how many cases that I had

599
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: to go through to try to get children out of

600
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: bad situations that unfortunately happened to them, because yes, they

601
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: got lost in the system, or they got caught up

602
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: in one bad thing, and that caused them to think, oh,

603
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: no one cares, like there's this whole level of systemic negligence. Um,

604
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: that's the best way I can put it. That happens

605
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: that causes us to happen. In their defensiveness, they don't

606
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: want to be seen as a victim, so therefore they

607
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: don't want to be seen as a victims, so they're

608
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,239
Speaker 1: they're not and I get lost in the system. And

609
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: there's this again, that bigger conversation of what does trafficking

610
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: look like? Which harms any possible ability to rehabilitate or

611
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: health these youths. So I'm not gonna say bad things

612
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: don't happen to women. We know that, but trafficking typically

613
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: art is not number one for women. Let's just go

614
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: ahead and put that out there unless there's a whole

615
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: different level situation. Not that it can't happen, it can happen,

616
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: but when it comes down to who was really victimized

617
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: and groomed, they are going to be younger. So I

618
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: do find it interesting too though, that even though we've

619
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: talked about it throughout history, we've always talked about there's

620
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: always been a fear. Honestly, I guess since the eighties

621
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: when we thought all the children were gonna be picked

622
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: up and and kidnapped, that this whole level of trafficking

623
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: really didn't. It felt like it's became more p plitical

624
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: in the last five years because of some of these

625
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and how it is perpetuated online. Has that

626
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: had more effect or Am I just paying attention more? No,

627
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: it absolutely has. I think that as our political climate

628
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: has gotten more polarized, gotten more heated, conversations have been

629
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: politicized in ways that we have not released, at least

630
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: in my opinion, that we have not really seen a

631
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: lot of before, and so particularly with conversations around like

632
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: things like you know, sex trafficking and anything involving like sex,

633
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: I think that we have really politicized those conversations to

634
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: a point where it's difficult to really have them in

635
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: any kind of, you know, meaningful or effective way. And

636
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: it's not great. You know, it's not it's not great

637
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: for people who are actually victimized. Like what, like, why

638
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: is it that we have this massive politicized conspiracy theory

639
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: Q and on that you know, it's all about you know,

640
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: women and girls being sex traffics and all of that.

641
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: Yet Matt Gates is currently is currently being incredibly accused

642
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: of sex trafficking. And it's like, so I think that,

643
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: like it goes to show that we have a very

644
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: skewed kind of cultural understanding of how we deal and

645
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: grapple with these issues. Absolutely, I completely agree. Can we

646
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: talk about the fact that Matt Gates people are excusing

647
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: him in so many manners because he first of all,

648
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: his interview on Fox is probably one of my favorites. However,

649
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: literally people are dismissing it, saying that he like kind

650
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: of that whole level of oh, whish's mature for her age,

651
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: she's underage. Yeah, I think that was honestly, if I'm

652
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: being honest, I think with his situation again, I think

653
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: because people are like, oh, trafficking is when you kidnap

654
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: a woman or a girl against her will and and

655
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: like confine her in some way. What he's doing is

656
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: not traffic because X y Z. I think that genuinely,

657
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: people have a hard time seeing what he has been

658
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: accused of as anything other than like, oh, well, he's

659
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: a man, he likes younger women. You know, boys will

660
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: be boys. And I think that that really does demonstrate

661
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: that we really have a long way to go in

662
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: terms of talking about what sexual violence actually looks like

663
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: and how and where it shows up. Because I think,

664
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, I think a lot of

665
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: men that might think of themselves as like progressive good

666
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: guys might agree with that if you really got down

667
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: to it, that like paying a woman for sex and

668
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: maybe she's underaged, maybe she is being coerced into it,

669
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: maybe she is has been groomed into it. I think

670
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: that a lot of people might not see that that

671
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: part of like, well, how did they get into the

672
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: circumstances as their problem? Right? I think that, like the

673
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: way that we talk about those issues, I think we

674
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: have a long way to go, and a lot of

675
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: people might have more sinister understandings of it than they

676
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: realize because I think, again, it seems like if you're

677
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: not kidnapping somebody, and you can't be doing anything wrong, right.

678
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: You know. A part of this too is and I'm

679
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: going to go out I can say, and I've said

680
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: it before, is this white savior idea that if you're

681
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: not rescuing somebody, and when they say rescuing going undercover

682
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: vigilanty style and you know, killing all the people's and

683
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: rescuing the child, then they're not truly in danger, right,

684
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: They're not truly being trafficked, which is kind of that again,

685
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: big conversation. One of the hardest populations to work with

686
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: our young people who have been in this situation, not

687
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: realizing they've been in the situation, thinking this is their

688
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: choice because they love someone, or they wanted to help someone,

689
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: or because this is better than being an assist them

690
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: that neglects them anyway, that oftentimes people won't recognize that.

691
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: And even still with what's happening, and it can be

692
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: trafficking with a specific foster care system in the US

693
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:16,479
Speaker 1: that is taking immigrant children against through misunderstanding or through

694
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: the immigration centers and actually adopting them out against parents

695
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: wishes and not even understand that they've been accused of

696
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: this from all over the country, to the point that

697
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: children are coming around and found out that the parents

698
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: had no idea, they had signed off are relinquishing their

699
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: guardianship and pronification rights, and therefore that's a type of

700
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 1: trafficking that people don't want to talk about because once

701
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: again it's just I'm saving them attitude, and it has

702
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 1: to be this bigger picture of what am I saving

703
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: them from? And if you're not grateful for it, then

704
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: are you really in trouble? Like there's just this whole

705
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: level of layered conversation within this system that shows once

706
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: again a this perpetuated idea has to be hero and

707
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: big and the and the victims have to be on

708
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: their nees thanking me type of idea. And or that

709
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: I've made a big splash and rescuing you, which is

710
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: that whole issue of like Q and On, we're rescuing

711
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: the children, were saving the children, which has broken down

712
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: this whole conversation. No, you're actually hurting the movement, You're

713
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: really killing the movement and in us trying to save

714
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: truly save because who are not being saved? Oh? Absolutely,

715
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: And it's time and time again people who do anti

716
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: trafficking work, they say Q and On, all of this

717
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: stuff is making their jobs so much harder, And if

718
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: you truly cared about trafficking, you would not be doing

719
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: something that the people who have been dedicated their lives

720
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: to stopping it has said, no, you're making our jobs

721
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: so much harder, please stop. And so I think it really,

722
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: if it's not about stopping trafficking, what is it about?

723
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: If people are continuing this crusade that the people who

724
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: work in anti trafficking work say is making their jobs

725
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: so much harder, what is it about? You know, I

726
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: have a lot of questions about that. I don't know.

727
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer, but it is it really?

728
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: You have to you have to wonder. I mean, I

729
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: guess that's kind of what we talked about with the

730
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: Q and on women, and we've talked about misinformation and disinformation.

731
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: A lot of the times when people feel helpless, they

732
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: feel like they have to do something, and unfortunately, if

733
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: they truly believe this as a situation, they're going to

734
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: take up arms in this fight. And I say that

735
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: metaphorically obviously maybe not, I don't know, but that this

736
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: is a cause that they decided it's their cause and

737
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: they're truly willing to fight because you know, we have

738
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: to say keep saying that what they're saying save the children,

739
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: and that's the only thing that they cannot get past. Yeah,

740
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: if we wanted to save the children, we would be

741
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: advocating for things like paid family leave. We would be

742
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: advocating for, you know, increasing educational access, would be advocating

743
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: for raising wages for parents and caregivers. We will be

744
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: advocating for There will there will be comments sense things

745
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: that we will be advocating for that actually would improve

746
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 1: the lives of children, right like across the board. Yet

747
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: we're you know, talking about you know, Q and On.

748
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: It's like it's like, if we wanted to say the children,

749
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: we could talk about fixing our completely messed up immigration

750
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: system where children are taken from their parents. There are

751
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: so many different ways that we could actually meaningfully improve

752
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: the lives of children, and I don't think um On

753
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: is one of them. I mean, when we come down

754
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: to it, in Georgia alone and knows all over the country,

755
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: they lost millions to billions of dollars in the system,

756
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: in the children's system. So whether it's de facts or

757
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: whether it's d JJ, And don't get me wrong, I

758
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: have a lot of problems with the foster care system

759
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: a lot. But what we're also talking about is taking

760
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: the money away from the things that that were good

761
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: that try to help the families within their homes instead

762
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: of just removing kids left and right, or when we

763
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: have talked about hey, oh Medicare for all, it's actually

764
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 1: really helpful and would help these kids get their counseling

765
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: that they need. Instead it gets cut and slashed the

766
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: pieces where they can only get it once a week.

767
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: And for the level of what's happening, we're not saving anything,

768
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: and we're perpetuating, once again, putting them out into the

769
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: system that does take advantage of them to be trafficked.

770
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: So sad, I hate it. Okay, you got or started.

771
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, but uh, with all of this that

772
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: you see, with all the constant do you see anything

773
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: that is helping to prevent any of this misinformation being

774
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: sent out? Yeah, that's a great question. Honestly, I it

775
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: kind of pains me to say this. I think that

776
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: platforms also, just speaking of the platform TikTok because that's

777
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: the one I'm most familiar with at this point, I

778
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: think that platforms need to do more across the board

779
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: to keep viral inaccurate information from getting shared on their platforms.

780
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: But in the absence of that kind of like very

781
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: meaningful intervention, I have been really hardened to see women,

782
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: just regular women content creators on the platform address in

783
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. Um I interviewed this content creator

784
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: on TikTok. Her TikTok name is blood Bath and Beyond,

785
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: and she started on the platform making dungeons and Dragons content.

786
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: But now her whole thing is sort of using the

787
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: platform TikTok to spread accurate information about trafficking and accurate

788
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: trafficking resources. And so when someone makes a viral video

789
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: about how they found something on their car, she wants

790
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: to on the platform where those videos are going viral,

791
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: combat that kind of viral misinformation by giving good resources.

792
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: And I am so happy to see women taking on

793
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: this fight to make sure that accurate information that is

794
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: not harming people gets out there and like trying to

795
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: make it go as a viral asth misinformation. But you know,

796
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: in talking to her this kind of came up in

797
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: the interview. It is complicated work because people often will

798
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: find these viral videos of women talking about finding a

799
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: zip tie on their car and tag her in them,

800
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: and the way that she feels sometimes is that like, oh,

801
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: people are hagging me because they want me to go

802
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: in and be like you're lying, And that's not how

803
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: she feels. She's not interested in invalidating anybody who is

804
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: sharing their experience, right, and so, but too often that's

805
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: kind of how we think of these things. We think

806
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 1: of these things as like you know, she said, she said,

807
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,479
Speaker 1: or like go in there and and call her out,

808
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: instead of like, no, let me provide some resources and

809
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: let me like provide a little bit of perspective. And

810
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: so I completely identify with that, because again, I think

811
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: there is a temptation to say that women that make

812
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: these videos are looking for attention or they're making it

813
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: up or whatever. I don't actually believe that's going on.

814
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: Just the experience of being a woman out in public,

815
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, as Annie was speaking about at the beginning

816
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: of the episode, can be scary. Men can be creeps.

817
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: Men can get too close to you when you're at

818
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: the store. Men can be real creepers. Like we all

819
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: know this, And so I do think that these women

820
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 1: are responding to a genuine discomfort. But because we don't

821
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: have a society where if we talked about the discomfort

822
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: that quote unquote regular men spark in women. We don't

823
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: have a society that rewards women when we talk about that.

824
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: We don't have a society that rewards women when we

825
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: talk about the threat posed by men in our communities,

826
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: in our own household. We do not have a society

827
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: that rewards that. We do have a society, however, that

828
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: rewards it when women speak up about a boogeyman or

829
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: a stranger or a guy in a van with a

830
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: mustache or whatever. That seems to be the thing that

831
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: is rewarded and supported when women speak of And so honestly,

832
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: I feel for these women who make these videos. I

833
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: do not believe that they're you know, making them for

834
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: attention or making it up. I believe that we have

835
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: a society that is only able to listen when women

836
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: scream at the top of their lungs. And so if

837
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: you just said, hey, men, stop being generally creepy and

838
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: leering at me when I'm at the gym and being

839
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: generally kind of terrible because women don't like it, no

840
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: one's gonna listen. But if you say, hey, I'm being trapped,

841
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: I think I'm being trafficked by this guy. I think

842
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: it's a totally different story, right, and so it's a

843
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: complicated issue, and I really I I think the issue

844
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: is made so much worse by what we take seriously

845
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: in our society and what we don't and what we

846
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: choose to listen to and what we choose to amplify. Yeah, yeah,

847
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: this is UM again. I'm really glad you bought this

848
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: to us this for an episode, because it's given me

849
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: a lot to think over because there is also that

850
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: whole other layer of especially when I was thinking about

851
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: Q and on and UM, some conservative politicians who would

852
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: by the way they're speaking about some of these issues,

853
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: they are sexualizing young girls and women, and it's like,

854
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if you realize you're doing that, but

855
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 1: you sort of part of the issue that is that

856
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: fear that women are feeling every day and maybe they

857
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: don't realize it or know how to talk about it,

858
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: because for a long time I didn't even know. I

859
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: couldn't have named it. But just seeing that layer of

860
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: it where it's just this like constant sexualization and not

861
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: that just seems to be the status quo and we're

862
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: cool with it, even in these conversations that politicians are

863
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: having about trafficking. Yeah, I saw this viral TikTok where

864
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 1: it was a young girl who had set up her

865
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: phone to make a little video in public. It was

866
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: it was almost triggering. Have you guys seen it. It's

867
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: like this guy comes up to her and he's like, oh,

868
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: is this seat taken? And she's like, no, go ahead,

869
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: thinking that he means take the chair and he sits

870
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: down and she's so uncomfortable. She is so it's so

871
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: clear that she doesn't want to talk to him, and

872
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: it is so clear that she's feeling creeped out. And

873
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: I feel like we all know that feeling of do

874
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: you just leave me alone? Like this is so weird

875
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: and you don't want to be like leave because you

876
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: don't know, you don't know what that's what's going to happen.

877
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,479
Speaker 1: And the powerlessness that comes with that feeling, And that's

878
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: the feeling that I feel like we that's the conversation

879
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 1: we don't have, is like, it doesn't have to be trafficking,

880
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: a mere trafficking. It to be harmful and gross, and

881
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: we need to discuss it, even if it's not as

882
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: something as intense as you know, almost trafficking. We need

883
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: to talk about the thing there's so much more common,

884
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: which is dudes being creepy. Yeah. Yeah. And then when

885
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: we do have to we try to have those conversations,

886
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: it's almost always like men and a lot of women

887
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: being like, well you could have just said something, or

888
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: you could have just putting it back on you of

889
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: well why didn't you just leave? Yes, there's so much

890
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: to impact here. Thanks as always, Bridget for coming on.

891
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you'd like to say before we

892
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: wrap up? No, just major shout outs to Michael Hobbs

893
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: from You're Wrong about major shoutouts to blood Bath and

894
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: Beyond on TikTok. And also if you want more information,

895
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: credible information about trafficking, check out the Polaris Project. They

896
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: have so many good resources and they're such a good organization. Yes,

897
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: and you should also check Bridget out. Where can the

898
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: listeners find you, Bridget, Well, you can find me at

899
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: my podcast. There are no girls on the inner Net

900
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: on the I Heart radio network, this very network. You

901
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at Bridget Murray or on

902
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: Instagram at Bridget Murray in d C. Yes, and we're

903
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: so excited to have you and we can't wait to

904
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: have you in the future. I'll come back anytime. We

905
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: still have to do our sex in the city. Rewatch.

906
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: We have not forgotten this. Yeah, I can't wait and listeners.

907
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: If you would like to email us, you can or

908
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: email Stuff Media mom Stuff at I hurt media dot com.

909
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram. Stuff I Never Told

910
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as

911
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks

912
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You the

913
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,

914
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen

915
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.