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Speaker 1: There's such a thing as knowing too much. You've been

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Speaker 1: married to the President of the United States who knows

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Speaker 1: everything about everything in the world. Sometimes you just the

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Speaker 1: phenomenally successful author. Please welcome the former first Lady of

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Speaker 1: these United States, Michelle Obama. I don't want people looking

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Speaker 1: at me and Barack like hashtag couples goals. No, no,

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Speaker 1: there are some broken things that happen even in the

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Speaker 1: best of marriages.

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Speaker 2: What is the thing that keeps you up at night? Now,

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Speaker 2: before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite

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Speaker 2: you to join this community to hear more interviews that

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Speaker 2: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All

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Speaker 2: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.

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Speaker 2: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments,

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Speaker 2: and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go

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Speaker 2: on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing.

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Speaker 2: It means the world to me.

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Speaker 1: The number one Health and well inness podcast.

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Speaker 2: Jay Sheetty Jay Shettye Only shet Hey, everyone, welcome back

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Speaker 2: to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning in today.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited for today's episode. But before we

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Speaker 2: do that, make sure you subscribe so you never miss

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Speaker 2: out on any future episodes. I've got so many more

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Speaker 2: exciting guests that I can't wait for you to listen to.

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Speaker 2: And today's guest is, of course, the one, the only,

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Speaker 2: Michelle Obama. We're talking about her book, The Light We Carry.

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Speaker 2: If you don't already have it, makes you go and

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Speaker 2: grab it. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Michelle.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me on purpose. This

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Speaker 2: is such an honor. I'm so grateful to have you here.

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be here. I'm a fan.

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Speaker 2: Oh that means more to me than you know. Thank

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Speaker 2: you so much, and I'll dive straight in. What is

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Speaker 2: the best part about being you?

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Speaker 1: I have never thought about that. That is a great question.

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Speaker 1: I think my family, my friendships. I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things that Barack and I we always talk about

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Speaker 1: is that we're proud of the fact that we've kept

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Speaker 1: our community. You know, people that we've known all our

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Speaker 1: lives are still a part of that community that keeps

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Speaker 1: us solid and keeps us whole and grounded. It's easy

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Speaker 1: to lose your head on this journey that we've been on.

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Speaker 1: And I think what keeps us focused is that we've had,

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Speaker 1: we have some solid people in our lives, and we

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Speaker 1: make it a point to cultivate those relationships and to

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Speaker 1: learn to be intentional about them. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that's probably one of the coolest things, is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've got this big kitchen table of people who keep

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Speaker 1: me focused and keep me honest.

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Speaker 2: What's the longest friendship then non family, Like, what's the.

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Speaker 1: Say, the longest friendship? I mean, gosh, childhood friendships I

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Speaker 1: still have. I've sort of picked up friends throughout every

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Speaker 1: part of my life. You know, I've got one or two.

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Speaker 1: I've got high school friends that I keep in touch with,

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Speaker 1: the college friends, the law school friends. You know, so

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Speaker 1: you sort of gather people throughout and I've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who've sort of just hung in there

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Speaker 1: before we were the Obamas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how does that work? I feel like so many

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Speaker 2: people who are on their journey, a lot of us

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Speaker 2: don't take steps forward because we're scared of what our

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Speaker 2: friends will think. Some of us get carried away with

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Speaker 2: success and ego and pride goes to your head, and

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Speaker 2: then you alienate people. Sometimes it's envy and jealousy from

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Speaker 2: everyone else who didn't join you on the journey. How

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Speaker 2: do you navigate a multi decade level friendship when everyone

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Speaker 2: is going through so much. What are the kind of

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Speaker 2: key milestones and maintaining that kitchen table?

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Speaker 1: You know, I talk about this journey like climbing Mount Everest.

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Speaker 1: You start Not that I've ever done that, by the way,

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Speaker 1: but what I've heard about climbing Mount Everest is that

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Speaker 1: you you start out at base camp and then you

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Speaker 1: hit these summits along the way, and everybody starts out

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Speaker 1: the journey ready, you know, they think I'm going to

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Speaker 1: make it to the top. And then you start the

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Speaker 1: climb and some people are ready for it and some

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Speaker 1: people aren't. And it's surprising that you learn along the

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Speaker 1: climb who's really ready And there are people who just

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Speaker 1: emotionally physically can't go the whole way. They run out

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Speaker 1: of oxygen, you know, they weren't fit for the climb, right.

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Speaker 1: And one of the hardest things is like when you

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Speaker 1: discover that, I mean, do you stop, do you go

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Speaker 1: back because there was one member that wasn't ready, or

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Speaker 1: do you keep climbing and sort of leave them where

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Speaker 1: they are? And we've found that that's kind of been

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Speaker 1: the pattern.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: There are people who have been they were built for

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Speaker 1: the climb like we were, and some weren't. And I

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Speaker 1: find that I talk to young people about this too,

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Speaker 1: because when you're a kid coming from nothing, and I

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Speaker 1: won't say that I came from nothing but brought nor

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Speaker 1: I came from wealth or connection or fame or fortune.

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Speaker 1: So we have a hodgepodge of people in our lives,

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Speaker 1: and one of the toughest things is to find out

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Speaker 1: that a dear friend wasn't ready for the climb, and

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Speaker 1: in order to keep pressing for it, we tell young

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Speaker 1: people that sometimes you got to leave them there because

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Speaker 1: you can't carry people when you're trying to get to

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Speaker 1: the top. It slows you down. But there's you know,

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Speaker 1: survivor's remorse that comes with it. And I know there

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of times when I talk to

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Speaker 1: kids and I see them well up, I see in

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Speaker 1: them that struggle that they've reached a point where they've

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Speaker 1: left people they love behind, and they struggle to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to weather or how to maintain those connections,

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Speaker 1: and it becomes hard and it's draining. You know, kids,

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Speaker 1: for exact ample, who got the opportunity to go to

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Speaker 1: college when half their family isn't eating yes, right, and

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Speaker 1: they've got a student loan and they need to use

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Speaker 1: that loan to pay for their books, but they're trying

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Speaker 1: to send money back home to pay the electric bill.

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Speaker 1: And I tell those kids, like, if you want to

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Speaker 1: make it, you've got to make some hard choices about

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Speaker 1: what to do with your life, or you will not

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Speaker 1: make the climb yourself, and then everyone knows you, and

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Speaker 1: then everybody loses. And I think that's how we've had

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Speaker 1: to look at it. We've been fortunate enough that we've

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Speaker 1: had so many people who were ready for the climb.

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Speaker 1: They had to adjust, they had to go back and

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Speaker 1: do a little working out, But for the most part,

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Speaker 1: they've made it. But for the people who couldn't, we

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Speaker 1: had to leave them behind and keep climbing. And if

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Speaker 1: once we made it to the top, if we could

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Speaker 1: reach back and pull some others up, we definitely did that.

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Speaker 1: It is one of the greatest challenges when you were

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Speaker 1: pursuing a life that is drastically different from the one

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Speaker 1: that you've come from.

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Speaker 2: It's such a thing as a graceful end.

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Speaker 1: Well, it depends on who's doing the ending right, yes, sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know. Sometimes I say there's such a thing as

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Speaker 1: the slow ghost, you know, where you just sort of

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Speaker 1: let relationships take their natural course. Friendships and relationships kind

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Speaker 1: of tell you when they're ready, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: have to kind of listen to it. You learn as

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Speaker 1: you get older, you know, sometimes you held on too long.

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Speaker 1: You let some you know, bad jujus stay around too long,

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Speaker 1: and as you get older you can recognize, right. I've

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Speaker 1: always approached life and friendships, and I try to tell

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Speaker 1: my daughters this too, is stay open, stay open to

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Speaker 1: the possibility of people. I never want my daughters and

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Speaker 1: I never wanted to feel so high that I was

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Speaker 1: closed off and suspicious, you know, not wanting to let

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Speaker 1: new people in, right, And that becomes very difficult when

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Speaker 1: you're the president and the first lady. You know, you could,

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Speaker 1: you know, close your life off so much, right because

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Speaker 1: everyone might want something to turn to. But I always

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Speaker 1: felt like, well that's a loss, you know, because if

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Speaker 1: you close everybody out, then you miss some gems. We've

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Speaker 1: tried to be open and find ways to let new

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Speaker 1: people in our lives and develop new relationships. And what

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Speaker 1: I tell my kids is trust your gut because you'll

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Speaker 1: know when people should be let out. But keep your

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Speaker 1: aperture wide open. Let people in, but when they show

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Speaker 1: you who they are, let them out quickly. And as

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Speaker 1: older you get, you know it's like, eah, that was that.

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Speaker 1: This one isn't working out, so let's just cut it quick.

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Speaker 1: But stay open, and.

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Speaker 2: You're naturally going to make mistakes. You're naturally going to

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Speaker 2: get hurt at not going to read everyone perfectly. So true, true,

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Speaker 2: that's going to happen. But it's better to be aware,

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Speaker 2: no doubt the lesson. But be open in the first place,

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Speaker 2: because being closed is worse.

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Speaker 1: You miss You miss out on the goodness, the possibility,

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Speaker 1: the opportunity, the new right. And I never want to

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Speaker 1: miss out on the new I I'd rather keep give

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Speaker 1: people the benefit of the doubt, bring them in, and

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Speaker 1: let them disappoint me. It's like I can deal with disappointment.

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Speaker 1: I can be I can I can get over hurt,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want to lose the possibility of someone

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Speaker 1: special coming in. That's the greater trade off, right, and

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Speaker 1: it's proven to be the right approach. You know, we

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Speaker 1: we've just met some wonderful people along this journey and gosh,

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Speaker 1: if I had closed myself off to that, I oh,

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Speaker 1: I think of the friendships, the influences that I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have had. So I want my girls to stay open,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want them to be open people.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I had a mentor in London, probably around ten

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Speaker 2: years ago, and he devised this set of questions that

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Speaker 2: gives you your personality type. And there's so many tests

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Speaker 2: like this, yes, but his was really interesting and it's

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Speaker 2: very aligned with your thinking. So, and he also had

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Speaker 2: types where we'd get locked and he'd call this CSC.

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Speaker 2: He said, the more closed, the more specific, and the

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Speaker 2: more controlling you get, the less you're able to actually connect, grow, evolve, learn.

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Speaker 2: And he would always say, as you're saying, the more open,

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Speaker 2: random and supportive you are, the more likely you are

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Speaker 2: to be able to invite people into your life at

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Speaker 2: different times. And I love hearing that because I like that, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that change from close, selective and controlling to open, random,

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Speaker 2: and supportive. He was saying, you never know, you could

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Speaker 2: have a random interaction with someone. It could be the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful lesson of your life.

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Speaker 1: And I also felt that you know, when you're the

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Speaker 1: president of the United States and the first, lady, you

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Speaker 1: have to be open. You have to be open to

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Speaker 1: all the possibilities. You can't live in your fortress and

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Speaker 1: govern the people, right, And I think we benefited from

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Speaker 1: the fact that we had to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: be regular people in the White House because we had

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Speaker 1: kids in school, and so we couldn't become just White

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Speaker 1: House people. We had to get to know that community

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Speaker 1: and go to parent teacher conference and make friends with

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Speaker 1: other parents because we wanted our kids' lives to be normal.

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Speaker 1: But that in a way kept me connected with people

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Speaker 1: and what they were really feeling and what their challenges were.

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Speaker 1: And it keeps me open and empathetic to people because

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Speaker 1: I'm engaged and I'm not sitting in my castle looking

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Speaker 1: out at everybody else. So I found it particularly necessary

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Speaker 1: in our role.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the best thing, that's beautiful. What has

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Speaker 2: been the west or the hardest part about.

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Speaker 1: Being you Well, I think it's the flip side of

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Speaker 1: that coin of that. When you're on the top of

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Speaker 1: Mount Everest, it can be isolating and dystopic in a way,

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Speaker 1: you know. I think one of the greatest things that

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Speaker 1: we've learned to appreciate in this role and I tell

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Speaker 1: young people this, especially young people who think they want fame.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like, do you know what that is?

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Speaker 1: You know, are you grasping for something you have no

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Speaker 1: idea or your parents pushing you towards this thing? Is

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Speaker 1: that when you become famous, well known, you lose your anonymity.

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Speaker 1: That's a tough thing to lose. Price, right, It's a

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Speaker 1: huge price, right, The natural everyday thing of sitting and

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Speaker 1: being able to sit in the world and observe it

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Speaker 1: and not be observed, right, I mean.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a really interesting way. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just sort of sitting in a park and watching

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Speaker 1: the world happen with nobody pulling you out of it. Right,

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Speaker 1: the simple walk through a park or standing in line

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Speaker 1: at the grocery store and overhearing life. We don't have that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't have spontaneity in the same way.

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Speaker 1: And that's a hard thing to lose. Now here's the thing. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: we lost it. We lost it in our forties. I

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Speaker 1: just think of kids who are reaching for it, not

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Speaker 1: knowing that you're about to lose a really valuable thing.

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Speaker 1: You want to you're striving to lose it, and you're

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Speaker 1: only eighteen twenty. You don't want to lose your anonymity.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to trade that off for anything in

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Speaker 1: the world, because once you lose it, you lose a

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Speaker 1: lot more. We've adjusted, right because we're adults. So yes,

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Speaker 1: I can figure out how how to make one move,

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Speaker 1: go on a walk, visit a friend, but I have

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Speaker 1: to call like twelve people, and I have to think

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Speaker 1: about the movements and security has to be lined up.

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Speaker 1: We can't do the ordinary things of life, you know,

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Speaker 1: go to a movie theater or I joked at COVID

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Speaker 1: when people asked when we were all in quarantine, how

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Speaker 1: did it feel, And I was like, well, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of easy for us because we've lived in quarantine for like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a decade, decades, and so you learn to

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Speaker 1: live in this smaller footprint. But it's that's a tough

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Speaker 1: thing that I don't think people think about when they

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Speaker 1: think of power and fame. And there's some downsides too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what do what do people want the most

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Speaker 2: from you? And because I love the idea of what

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Speaker 2: you're saying of being open, it's that mindset is so special. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess when that when you are open and then

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Speaker 2: like you said, you can get over that hurt. What

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Speaker 2: is the hurt that you usually have to to get

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Speaker 2: over all that you've had.

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Speaker 1: To well the maybe hurt is too strong of a

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Speaker 1: word again because we're older. It's just the loss of

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Speaker 1: a piece of yourself, right, you know. I mean people

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Speaker 1: always ask me I was in Chicago the other day,

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Speaker 1: and every time I go back to Chicago, people are like,

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Speaker 1: do you miss Chicago? I missed the Chicago that we

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Speaker 1: knew before we were here. Wow, that Chicago is no

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Speaker 1: longer available to us to you, yes, yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: the way we loved it in that way, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's a loss. Is it a hurt? Is it personal? No,

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Speaker 1: it's just the way life is. But it's still a loss.

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Speaker 1: You know, my husband loves New York and it was

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Speaker 1: interesting he thought for a second, because he's been more

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Speaker 1: isolated than me. He thought for a minute, when we

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Speaker 1: leave the White House, we'll live in New York. And

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Speaker 1: it was like, dude, you can't live in New York.

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Speaker 1: And it's just he cannot access the wonderful city of

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Speaker 1: New York and the way that he remembered when he

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Speaker 1: was in his twenties. Because guess what, we can't do.

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Speaker 1: We can't walk down the street, we can't get on

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Speaker 1: the subway, we can't necessarily walk through Central Park without

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Speaker 1: a big plan. You know, the things that make New

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Speaker 1: York New York, we can't access it. That's the part

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Speaker 1: I don't you know, the people part, the connection to

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Speaker 1: people part. I never get exhausted by that because I'm open, yes, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's not a great distinction, right, It's just the

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Speaker 1: way you want to live your life, especially when you're open, right,

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Speaker 1: You want to be open, you want to be in

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Speaker 1: the midst of people, and we've lost that absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I think what's beautiful about this book, The Light we

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Speaker 2: Carry and Becoming is it shows us just how many trials, challenges,

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Speaker 2: setbacks that you've had to overcome, and that you've gone

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Speaker 2: through in your life so elegantly, gracefully, tactfully, you know,

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Speaker 2: with with so much determination and drive. And I'm intrigued

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Speaker 2: that after having overcome so much, like you said, climbing

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Speaker 2: Mount Everest, using that as a as our analogy, what

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Speaker 2: is the thing that keeps you up at night now? Well,

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Speaker 2: what is your biggest fear now? After having overcome so

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Speaker 2: many It.

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Speaker 1: Has less to do with me personally and more to

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Speaker 1: do with the world that we're in. There's such a

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Speaker 1: thing as knowing too much. And when you've been married

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Speaker 1: to the President of the United States, who knows everything

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Speaker 1: about everything in the world, sometimes you just want to

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Speaker 1: do you know too much? Right, It's like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to know what was in that folder

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Speaker 1: that you just got that made you quiet, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to know why the security just pulled

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Speaker 1: you over. I mean, it could be any range of

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Speaker 1: things that comes across the desk of the leader of

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Speaker 1: the free world. Right, So I know a lot about

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Speaker 1: what's going on, and what keeps me up are the

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Speaker 1: things that I know. The war in the region in

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Speaker 1: too many regions? What is AI going to do for us?

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Speaker 1: The environment? You know, are we moving at all fast enough?

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Speaker 1: What are we doing about education? Are people going to vote?

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Speaker 1: And why aren't people voting? Are we too stuck to

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Speaker 1: our phones? I mean, those are the things that keep

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Speaker 1: me up because you don't have control over them, and

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Speaker 1: you wonder where are people? Where are we in this?

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Speaker 1: You know, where are our hearts? What's going to happen

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Speaker 1: in this next election? I am terrified about what could

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Speaker 1: possibly happen because our leaders matter, who we select, who

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Speaker 1: speaks for us, who holds that bullied pulpit. It affects

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Speaker 1: us in ways that sometimes I think people take for granted.

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Speaker 1: You know the fact that people think that government, nah,

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Speaker 1: you know, does it really even do anything? And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, does government do everything for us? And

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Speaker 1: we cannot take this democracy for granted? And sometimes I

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Speaker 1: worry that we do. Those are the things that keep

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Speaker 1: me up.

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Speaker 2: What habits have you developed? Because I think people may

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Speaker 2: not have access to the news you do, but I

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Speaker 2: think people can definitely relate yes, yes to what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: That absolutely, Jay, I'm just seeing all the news on

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Speaker 2: my phone. I'm connected to the TV. I'm hearing things

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Speaker 2: from friends and family. Like I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: people can relate to you saying I feel like I

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Speaker 2: know too much. What are some of the habits of

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Speaker 2: practices or rules that you've developed that have really become

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Speaker 2: your saving grace Because like you said to you, it's

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Speaker 2: not just a news update, it's a folder, it's the

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Speaker 2: person calling, it's a private meeting, whatever it may be.

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Speaker 2: You're in one sense, it's even more extreme because you're

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Speaker 2: so privy to the actual reality as opposed to a

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Speaker 2: news channel, which is part of reality.

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Speaker 1: One of the most important practices is deliberately turning that

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Speaker 1: off for a moment or more than a month, and

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Speaker 1: I encourage that. I think our phones are sort of

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Speaker 1: the regular man's equivalent to what I just described. We're

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Speaker 1: too connected all the time. We're reading too much, we're

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Speaker 1: taking too much in. We are constantly being fed by images,

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Speaker 1: and that's become the norm, and it's we've been sort

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Speaker 1: of marketed that that's cool, that's what we should want.

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Speaker 1: But our brains are not. We are not that sophisticated

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Speaker 1: a species. We have not evolved enough to be able

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Speaker 1: to take in that much information on a constant basis,

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Speaker 1: and our kids certainly are not prepared to handle it.

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Speaker 1: I think that plays a huge role in the higher

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Speaker 1: rates of depression and suicide among young people. They've got

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Speaker 1: to let their brains rest from the noise. Even though

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Speaker 1: you know we're all trying to fix everything, everyone needs

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Speaker 1: a break from it, right, So I am very deliberate

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Speaker 1: about knowing that I can't take all that in, and

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Speaker 1: we're getting it in such a sort of misinterpreted way. Right,

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Speaker 1: We've got, you know, confirmation bias. We're reading only what

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Speaker 1: we already believe. And I know I have to be

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Speaker 1: very deliberate about, you know, understanding that a lot of

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Speaker 1: the information I'm getting isn't even complete. I do filter,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then I develop habits that shut my

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Speaker 1: brain off to thinking. Right. I wrote in the Light

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Speaker 1: about knitting, you know, which is a habit that I developed,

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Speaker 1: a hobby that I developed over quarantine.

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Speaker 2: And that's because it makes you so present.

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Speaker 1: And it shuts your brain down and allows your hands,

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Speaker 1: the motion to take over. And in that way I

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Speaker 1: found that it is meditative, right, And that's what meditation is.

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Speaker 1: It's quieting your noisy mind. And some of us can't

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Speaker 1: connect to meditation, but I think we need it. I

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Speaker 1: think biologically we need to shut that part of ourselves

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Speaker 1: down to get a rest from it. And I find

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Speaker 1: that knitting does it. Exercise does it. Learning something physical

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Speaker 1: shuts my mind down. I mean I've taken up tennis

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Speaker 1: and there's nothing that shuts my mind down. Then running

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Speaker 1: after a green ball and trying to figure out move

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Speaker 1: your feet, hit the ball, follow through. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that shuts my mind down for the hour or ninety

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Speaker 1: minutes that I'm doing that thing. I'm not worrying, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm breathing, I'm outside, I'm letting the sun hit my face.

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Speaker 1: I am those habits and routines of creating something right,

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Speaker 1: and we do that less and less now. It's like

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Speaker 1: everything is all in the mind. It's all technology. But

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Speaker 1: I think we need something where. The thing I love

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Speaker 1: about knitting is that at the end of it had

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Speaker 1: made something. You know, It's just satisfying in a very

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Speaker 1: different way from problem solving or analysis, right, building, creating, painting, drawing, fixing,

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Speaker 1: putting something real into the world that came from your

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Speaker 1: own hands, something small.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: That's why I talk about the power of small in

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Speaker 1: the light we carry, because a lot of times our

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Speaker 1: brains are trying to do the big fix, and that's

404
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Speaker 1: when we feel hopeless and we're tired, because most of

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Speaker 1: us don't have the power to fix anything at a

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Speaker 1: big scale. But we can focus on the small things

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Speaker 1: that we have control over, you know, making a sweater

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Speaker 1: for your daughter, helping mentor a child in your neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: loving the children you bring into the world, and making

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Speaker 1: sure they have everything they need. That's where change happens, right,

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Speaker 1: And when I do those kinds of activities, I meditate

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Speaker 1: into that power, right, that small power that there is

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Speaker 1: satisfaction from hitting a stupid ball over a net, yes

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Speaker 1: you know, and getting a good swing out of it.

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Speaker 1: It's like it makes the day better because I serve

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Speaker 1: the ball right, or I finished a scarf.

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Speaker 2: I love to know you're so right. And I'm so

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Speaker 2: glad you're using the word shutting down and this switch

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Speaker 2: to analog I remember at one point, and I think

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Speaker 2: everyone can relate to this. You wake up to your phone,

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Speaker 2: I'd be brushing my teeth and on my phone. I'm

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Speaker 2: eating breakfast and on my phone. You know, just your

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Speaker 2: phone is now tethered to your hand in every activity

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Speaker 2: that you're doing throughout the day, and so your brain

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Speaker 2: is never shutting down. And the interesting thing is we

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Speaker 2: all know our phones need to reset, need to update,

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Speaker 2: they need a software refresh or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 2: And I think I saw somewhere that the human brain

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Speaker 2: today has to process like seventy four gigabytes with information

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Speaker 2: a day, Yeah, a day. And I was thinking, I

431
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 2: remember when your phone doesn't you know, it's a lot.

432
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: And when you think about it. This is a brand

433
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: new technology. Yes, right. You know when we got into

434
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: the White House, we could we had blackberries, right, social

435
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: media wasn't a thing. Right. All of that came into

436
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: being in the eight years that we were in the

437
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: White House, and it's just gone off like a rocket ship.

438
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: We don't evolve that quickly, you know. Humans, It takes

439
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: generations for us to all. We haven't adapted to this

440
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: new media. We haven't. We have not biologically adapted. And

441
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: so no wonder we're stressed, no wonder, we're we're full

442
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: of anxiety, No wonder our kids are struggling, you know,

443
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: because we have a new technology and we've just we

444
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: we've taken it in hookline and sinker. We're not even

445
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: questioning how much. You know, the more the merrier, right.

446
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: I think we need to be very mindful about this

447
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: new gadget. Yes, And we have to be mindful for

448
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: our kids because they have no filter, right, they'll just

449
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: be thumbing through this stuff, you know, their their mind's

450
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: never sleeping. And as parents of my generation, we know

451
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: so little about it, don't. We don't even know how

452
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: to monitor it. It's like cigarettes, right, Is it good

453
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: for us? I mean at one point everybody smoked until

454
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: we realized, Oops, this isn't really really good for us, right,

455
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: I think we have to be cautious about this, this

456
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: new thing that we're just lapping up.

457
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. I read an article a few years ago exactly.

458
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: It was saying that today we absorb in one day,

459
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: in twenty four hours, the same amount of tragedy we

460
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: would in our entire lifetime twenty five years ago. Today

461
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: we absorb what we would in our entire lifetime in

462
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: one day.

463
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: And it felt real, And that's why people feel more panicked.

464
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: I mean, Barack, my husband, is a he's a fact

465
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: based guy. He's a science guy. Sometimes it's not popular

466
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: these days, right, having a president that believes in facts

467
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: and science and all that stuff. But he's one of

468
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 1: those people. And he always says, you know, statistically speaking,

469
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: especially when young people bemoan where we are today, he says,

470
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at history and statistics, if

471
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: you were to pick any time in human history to

472
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: be born, you'd want to be born now. Crime, war,

473
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: those rates are the lowest. But nobody feels that people

474
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: feel more unsafe. Why because they're getting fed images of

475
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 1: every crime that happens anywhere everywhere, right, And when we

476
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: were growing up, you just heard your local news. You know,

477
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, there was a fire or that kid,

478
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, and you know. Now we're getting everything, not

479
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: just from our community, but all over the world. Stuff

480
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: that's always been happening. We just didn't know about it. Yes,

481
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: now we know too much. Yes, and we're interpreting that

482
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: to mean things are horrible. We went through world wars

483
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: and depressions and famine. This isn't new. It's just we

484
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: know everything, you know. It's one way to look at it.

485
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, absolutely, And I think you're right because there's

486
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: the incomplete information. I like the word incomplete things, and

487
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: I appreciate that kind of subtle point. Incomplete information. Then

488
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: you have opinions. Then you have feelings and emotions, and

489
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: so there's so much more information on every level. You

490
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: have the physical information, the emotional information, the mental information

491
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: of course, the physical experience of it. And it can

492
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: be it can be too much. One of the it's

493
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: so interesting you use the analogy of climbing Mount Everest

494
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: because I went to see a comedy show recently and

495
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember the comedian's name, so I'll have

496
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: to find it afterwards and put him in there. But

497
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: he literally was describing. He was saying, relationships are like

498
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: climbing Mount Everest, and so what he said was he goes,

499
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: you started base camp, and he goes, you and your

500
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: partner are ready, You're ready to go. You're being guided,

501
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: and then at one point you're like, oh, we're cold,

502
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: but it's okay, we'll keep each other warm.

503
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: We'll be find and.

504
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: Then he goes you get to the first stop and

505
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: you go, oh, yeah, like have you did you pack

506
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: the gloves? Did you pack the gloves? And then your

507
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: partner goes, oh, no, I forgot the gloves. And you're like, oh,

508
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: it's okay, it's okay, we'll just keep our hands warm.

509
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: Then you get a bit higher and then they were like,

510
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: now it's got to a point where it's really cold,

511
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: and you were why did you forget those gloves? Like

512
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: you know, it's like the press that come on, like

513
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: why do you figure out those gloves? Then you get

514
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: the next stop and your partner says to you, like,

515
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: you pack the sandwiches right, and then you look at

516
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: the sandwiches like, I don't know what to say anyway,

517
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: And so you talk about this so much in your

518
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: work in your book, like relationships are challenging, they're difficult.

519
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: I think you've been together now for over thirty years.

520
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: Thirty one thirty one, thirty one years. Congratulations. Yeah, okay, amazing,

521
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: thirty one years. Congratulations. That's incredible and so inspiring in

522
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: so many ways. My wife and I have been together

523
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: for ten years, and that counts counts, and you know,

524
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: definitely like can see the challenges unforeseen and seen that

525
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: come with being together over long periods of time. My

526
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: wife and I in twenty sixteen, we both changed jobs,

527
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: so we got married, we changed jobs and moved country.

528
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: So we moved from London to New York. That year.

529
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: We both quit our jobs in London. I could work here,

530
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: my wife couldn't at the time because of her visa,

531
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: and we started new lives and we obviously moved home

532
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: and we were away from our families, and that year

533
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: was it brought us closer, thankfully, but it was a

534
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: very challenging, difficult year because I've had that those are

535
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: some of the hardest things you can do. The only

536
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: thing we didn't do is have a kid.

537
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: That's right. You covered all the hardes apart.

538
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: From President the first lady, I think that that takes it.

539
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: When you're going for all this challenges. You've talked about

540
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: these many many times before. Has there ever been a

541
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 2: time when you've said things or done things and afterwards though,

542
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: I wish I didn't do that, wish I didn't say what.

543
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: In my marriage? Yes, yeah, of course yesterday. I love that.

544
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: How do you how do you because you've been together

545
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: for thirty one years, how do you rectify something like

546
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: that when you know, because there's a difference between being

547
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: spiteful of being silly, but like when you really feel

548
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: like I shouldn't have done that, I shouldn't have said that.

549
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: How do you address something that.

550
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: You know that's the practice of relationships right after thirty

551
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: one years. Yeah, we still do it, but you know

552
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: it quicker and then you apologize. You know, you learn

553
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: how to say my bad right, and that takes that

554
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: takes a second right. You know. That's why I talk

555
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: about relationships in the light. I talk about marriage because

556
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: I just think that number one, most people don't talk

557
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: about it, Like our parents didn't talk about your marriage.

558
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: You didn't talk about your feelings you didn't talk about

559
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: your parents didn't tell you about the challenges that we're facing.

560
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: So why why don't we share the whole experience? Because

561
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: what happens is that by not knowing, you hit in

562
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: your relationship some natural, like understandable rough patches and you

563
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: want to quit. And it's like, oh no, no, no, no, no,

564
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: that's not quit worthy. That's just that's the just the

565
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: nature of things, you know. That's why I joked. It's like, oh,

566
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: you're mad at your partner. You're mad for a year,

567
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: and you think the marriage is over. Nah, you're gonna

568
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: have decades. I don't know if I like you, you know,

569
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: because over the span of a thirty year marriage, yet

570
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: you cobble together enough arguments and you got to decade, right,

571
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: And that's just the way it goes. But you don't

572
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: quit on it, right, You learn from it. And that's

573
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: what sustaining a relationship is. It's the choice to figure

574
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: it out, not to quit when it gets hard. So, yeah,

575
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: I said something that I didn't mean to say. Right

576
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: year five, we might have had hurt feelings and it

577
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: would have taken days to rectify it. You're thirty, It's like, eh,

578
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: there she goes again, or there he goes again. I

579
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: know how to talk to him about it and when

580
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: because we've practiced it. We've made a lot of mistakes,

581
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: we've gotten it wrong, and after thirty one years we're

582
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: getting better at it and it gets better and better

583
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: and better. You know. Look, if you lived with your

584
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: roommate for thirty years, you would hate them at some

585
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: point in time, but it wouldn't be some defining thing.

586
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: You have friendships that they laugh. You're gonna have some

587
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: falling out. Why do we put so much pressure on

588
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: marriage to not be hard. It's the natural hardest thing

589
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: you will ever do, which is to try to build

590
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: a life with another person who wasn't raised in your shoes,

591
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: who has a totally different temperament, right, and you're like

592
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: having other people with them, you know, you bring other

593
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: lives and other personalities into the mix, and then life

594
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: is happening. Of course, it's gonna be hard, you know,

595
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't trade in my marriage for anything in

596
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: the world. With all the ups and downs, with all

597
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: the running for president stuff, I was like, what did

598
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: you do that? I mean, talk about that being a big, gaping, yeah,

599
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: transition thing in our lives, but the good has outweighed

600
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: and if we hadn't hung in there, we would have

601
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: missed all the good. And that's what I tell young people, like,

602
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: first of all, pick well, pick some what do you

603
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: respect and like start there, right, and then remember that

604
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: that's who they are, and then understand that with that,

605
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: they are going to be and you are going to

606
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: be deeply, deeply flawed, and you're going to make a

607
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: whole lot of mistakes, right, But in the end, you

608
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: can look that person in the eye and you go,

609
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: You're still the person that I like and love and respect,

610
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: and we can figure this out. So I share that

611
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: because I don't want people looking at me and Barack

612
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: like hashtag couples goals and not know that. No, no,

613
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: there are some broken things that happen even in the

614
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: best of marriages.

615
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you use that term quit worthy. Is that

616
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: something that you defined for yourself what you saw as

617
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: quit worthy and what you saw as not quit worthy.

618
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Look, I think there are some

619
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: objective quit worthy things like criminality, of course, abuse, but hey,

620
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: that's that's that's me. You know, there's some people who

621
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: love through a whole lot of things. So I think

622
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: that has to be individual. But if I were talking

623
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: to my daughters, I wouldn't want them in to stay

624
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: in a marriage that made them feel oppressed, that was

625
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: an overall negative to who they were, right, I do

626
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: think there are reasons to walk away from marriage, friendship,

627
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: a whole jobs, a whole lot of things.

628
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: Right.

629
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I have a clear list of like the

630
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: non negotiables, but everybody has their own.

631
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's so important that you know,

632
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: everyone who's listening and watching, the idea of having our

633
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: own quit worthy definition is such a need because it

634
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 2: can get really hard to find clarity when you get

635
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: really deep into something. A practice that I love doing

636
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: with a lot of my clients and even people that

637
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: I work with or online is I ask Kevin to

638
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 2: write down the needs that they have in their life,

639
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: and then write down the people that filled those needs.

640
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: And it could be themselves too, some of them, and

641
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 2: then some of them are their friends, their mom, their dad,

642
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: and of course in your book, like we noticed like

643
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: your mom's like wisdom, right, Like she's the Buddha in

644
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: your life. As you say you see different people, what

645
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: are the roles that you initially wanted President Obama to

646
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: fill that you then realized they actually needed to be

647
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: fooled by other people.

648
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I write about it. The fact

649
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: that we are two very independent, ambitious, smart people and complex,

650
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: you knows, as individuals. We you know, were dynamic in

651
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying that as an ego trip, but.

652
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 2: No, you know what you mean, you constantly flux.

653
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, and I learned It took me a

654
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: while to learn that. You know, there's no way we

655
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: could be everything to each other. We have different interests,

656
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: different goals. There was a stage in my marriage where

657
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: I thought that's what a partner was supposed to be.

658
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: You know, you should call me all the time, we

659
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: should talk all the time. We should be each other's

660
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: best friends all the time. Our marriage got better when

661
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: I got better about that, because I think he already

662
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: had that independence. This notion of I love you, I

663
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: don't even if I don't talk to you today, That

664
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 1: to me is like I don't need that. I felt

665
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: like I needed more of that. But as I got older, right,

666
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: I got more mature, more clear about my own goals,

667
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: I realized that I, you know, he can't be responsible

668
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: for my happiness. I have to be responsible for that.

669
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: I have to define it for myself. I have to

670
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: learn how to achieve it. My husband is definitely a

671
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: part of that, but he is not the I cannot

672
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: put him in the center of my happiness. That freed

673
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: me up to let him be him and let me

674
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: be me. So I have friends who give me things

675
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: that my husband doesn't give me. I have girlfriends. One

676
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: distinction that we have is like, I'm a talker, all right.

677
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: When I sit down with my girlfriends, we can talk

678
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: four days, I mean literally for days. We can take

679
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: a break for lunch, but we can talk.

680
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: You know.

681
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: My husband's not He can talk, but he will come

682
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: by a friendship session, you know, nine o'clock in the morning.

683
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: I have a friend staying with me and he's like,

684
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: what are y'all talking about. It's like, well, we're just

685
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: now getting into our kids and we're going to talk

686
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: about each one of them separately for like an hour.

687
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 2: Right.

688
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: He's like, I couldn't do that, right, He can't be

689
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: that for me. But I have really good mostly girlfriends

690
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: who give me that. You know, we will dissect life

691
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: to the bitter. We will ring everything out of every

692
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: subject and he's like, I think I'm done, and it's like, well,

693
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: you can go be done because I've got her and

694
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: we just got started. We're gonna we got twelve more

695
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: hours to go, right.

696
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 2: And that's so beautiful to hear because I think, especially

697
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: when we're young, we think that that person has to

698
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: be all of that and from the beginning, and or

699
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 2: they'll become it. There's the other fallacy of like, oh, well,

700
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: I know who they could be and who they could become.

701
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: How much of that did you feel you had to

702
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: disconnect and detach from it, like what this person could

703
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 2: be to you? Obviously not in the world, but.

704
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: I had to disconnect from all of those beliefs, right,

705
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: And every couple is different, I've found. I know people

706
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: who are each other's best friends. They like to travel together,

707
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: they walk and hold hands. And I have friends who

708
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: are in relationships where they talk like every hour. I'm like,

709
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: are you talking to him again? Nothing changed? You know,

710
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 1: it's up to the individuals to define that for themselves.

711
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: For Barack and I and I think you should be

712
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: clear about that because the other thing is that when

713
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: we hold on internally to an expectation of the other person.

714
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: We don't even share it, so now we're mad that

715
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: you haven't even filled something I never even told you

716
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: I need it. You know that takes time and it

717
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: takes work, which is why marriage is hard, right because

718
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: you'll have the tendency to live in your head and

719
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: live out the image of what you want them to be,

720
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: and you haven't even communicated that to them. That's just

721
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: one little fraction of the challenge of marriage and friendship

722
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: and all of that. It's hard, it takes time, but

723
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: it's worth.

724
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: It, absolutely. Yeah. I think those those check ins are

725
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: the hardest. I know that there's four check ins that

726
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 2: I try and keep a good habit around with my

727
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: wife that have really helped me. One of them is

728
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: every day I'll ask her like, what was your highlight today?

729
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: Or what did you learn today? Something something positive? Something

730
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 2: like what's the best thing that happened to you today?

731
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: I want to know because it's so easy for us

732
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: to get so busy in our days, not see each

733
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: other all day, not speak all day, and days can

734
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: go by like that too because we're also traveling. And

735
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: then every week I try and ask you, like, how

736
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: can I what can I help you with this week?

737
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: Like is there something coming up that I just need

738
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 2: to be aware of? Yeah, Sometimes it's just information, and

739
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: that gives me an opportunity to also tell her I've

740
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: got a really stressful week coming up. Just know that

741
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 2: I may not be at my best this week. I'm

742
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: just letting you know. Every month, I'm you know, checking

743
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: in with her and trying to just say to her, like,

744
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: what's your big focus for this month, Like, you know,

745
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: what's the big thing that you're working on? Then every

746
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: year is easy, like you know, what's your goal? Is

747
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 2: a resolution or whatever? And I find that those questions

748
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: and sometimes every quarter I'll ask a question, which is

749
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 2: the hardest one, but it's like is this relationship going

750
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 2: in the direction you want it to? And if it isn't,

751
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: what are you willing to do? And what am I

752
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: willing to do to get it back on track? Because

753
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 2: I find so often like if you just don't talk

754
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 2: about that deep intimacy, you're just going on different tracks.

755
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: And that's why five years later you're like, well I

756
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 2: don't know you anymore. Yeah, yeah, And so I find

757
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: that like staying in close contact, but one of the

758
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: biggest things I read which I wanted to try with

759
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 2: you is the Gotman Institute talked about how the number

760
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 2: one skill or habit in relationships, and they looked at

761
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: couples who'd stayed together the longest, and they found it

762
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: wasn't date nights, it wasn't vacations, it wasn't any of

763
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: this stuff. It was learning how to fight. Oh, it

764
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: was knowing how to deal with conflict. And most couples,

765
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 2: obviously we all go, well, we never fight or we're

766
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: never going to fight, but it's inevitable. So I came

767
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: up with these three fight styles, and I wanted to

768
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: know how you see yourself and how you see President

769
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 2: Obama or how he would see himself. And so here

770
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: the three fight styles are a venter, which means I

771
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: want to fix and solve it. Right now. You like

772
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: to vent, you're really trying to fix and solve it.

773
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 2: The second one is you're a hyder. You need time

774
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 2: and space to think about it. I just want to

775
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 2: go spend time by yourself. And then the third one

776
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,439
Speaker 2: is the exploder, where it's like I want my emotions

777
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: to be heard, felt and seen before we take time

778
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: about or before we try and solve it. Which one

779
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: are you?

780
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: Okay? So I've changed over early on in our relationships,

781
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: I was more of an exploder. I think he has

782
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: been always been a fixer, right, Yeah, So then I

783
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: would be explosive and then want to hide. Right, It's like,

784
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: I want to explode, let me have my emotions and

785
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: then give me a moment, right, And he's like, we've

786
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: got to fix this. We've got to you know, shut

787
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: this down. We've got to. I will figure it out.

788
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: Let's talk this through. And I love that about him,

789
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: especially as a man. You know, he's somebody that is

790
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: not afraid to put his emotions out. He's smart, and

791
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: so he knows me. So he's like he won't let

792
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: me pretend like there's nothing wrong because he knows. I

793
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: know there's something You're a little off. And but I've

794
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: had to learn that exploding on a fixer it doesn't

795
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: feel good to them, right, It just you know, it

796
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 1: feels good for me, but it doesn't feel good for him. Right.

797
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: But he's learned that as a hid that I do

798
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: need a little more time. Right if I'm exploding, I

799
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: can't be rational enough to talk through your fixing. And

800
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: you if you want to fix it. Then I've got

801
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: to be in a rational place. So let me hide

802
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: for a minute. So I need to get myself down

803
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: to a fixer place. Yes, I think that's been the

804
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: trajectory of our sorting through learning how to argue. But

805
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: I like those But he's he's been pretty consistent. He

806
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: is consistently the fixer, you know. And he's also much

807
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: more even keeled, you know, than I am emotionally. We're

808
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: just different people in that way, and he's learned not

809
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: to be too afraid of the explosiveness. Yes, it's like,

810
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: I don't mean it. I'm just saying it right now

811
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: because I need to say it.

812
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 2: Yes, right, And that awareness that you're just displaying there

813
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 2: is so powerful to witness because you realize, wow, it's

814
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: not as serious as I'm making it out.

815
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 1: It's important, that's right, it's.

816
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 2: Important, and I need to take note of it, but

817
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: it's I don't need to deal with it in this

818
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: right well, And it's maturing.

819
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: We all say, well, say what's on your mind, you know,

820
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: tell it like it is, and it's like, yeah, I'm

821
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: that tends to be who I am. But as you

822
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 1: get older, you realize, yeah, that's your heart, but your

823
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: head tells you you want to be heard, and you

824
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: have to think about who you're talking to and what

825
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: you're in gold is because that will dictate how you

826
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: have to communicate to them. So when you're young, you

827
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: just want to be heard. As you get older, you

828
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: have a goal. You want to achieve something, and being

829
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: heard in the way you say it may not get

830
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: you to your goal. Yes, I mean that's at the

831
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: crux for me of what going high is, right. I mean,

832
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: going high is being strategic. If you're really trying to

833
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: make change, you have to think about whether your approach

834
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: will allow for change to happen. You know, going high

835
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: means you're thinking about a broader point outside of your

836
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: own anger or hurt or pain. You're thinking where am

837
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: I trying to get to and how do I do

838
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: that with this group that I'm trying to move. That's

839
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: passion matured into purpose, and young people often they want

840
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 1: to just act with passion. Yes, right, but passion doesn't

841
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 1: always solve a thing. And I've learned that in my relationship.

842
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: You know, my passion isn't is meaningless if my husband

843
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: can't hear it, you know, if I've hurt his feelings

844
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: in the process. Well, what's that's not the point, you know,

845
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: So I have to mature my passion, you know, I

846
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: have to mature it as a mother, right. I have

847
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: to be very careful as a mother with the words

848
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: I say. I can't just say what's on my mind.

849
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: I can I have to think about how I say

850
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: it to which child because they're both different and they

851
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: both need to be parented different. Right. So going high

852
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 1: is like, to me, it's the mature way to live, right,

853
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: the mature way to get the message across. It doesn't

854
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: mean that how you feel isn't relevant, right. It's true,

855
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: It's real and true, but that's for you to deal with.

856
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: When you're dealing with external people, whether it's your husband

857
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: or your kids or your friends, your passion has to

858
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: take way to what's going to work with this person,

859
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: what's going to work with this group of people? To me,

860
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: that's what going high is.

861
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a great definition. I think you're the best

862
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: person has this conversation with I love how you explain

863
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: the need for that, And actually I don't think i've

864
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: heard it explained in that way before. I really appreciate

865
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: it because I think currently we've confused being authentic and

866
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: being strategic. What you were just saying is when you're

867
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 2: sharing how you feel, you are being authentic, but maybe

868
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 2: it won't be authentically recved or heard or seen because

869
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: it wasn't strategically perceived. But we sometimes today perceived strategy

870
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: as manipulation or as a technique, as opposed to or

871
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: selling out or selling out. Right, walk me through that,

872
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 2: because I think how we perceive we've put authenticity on

873
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: a pedestal, which is not wrong, but we've put strategy

874
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: is like the thing that you kind of you know,

875
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: shun well.

876
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,280
Speaker 1: And maybe strategy is too strategic or hard of a world,

877
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 1: but you could replace that with empathy, right, you know, connectivity.

878
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: It's sort of like who am I trying to move?

879
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: And where are they in this? Right? And when you're

880
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: the President of the United States or the first lady,

881
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: you have a big platform. I've always felt like I

882
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: have a responsibility to set my feelings aside and think

883
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 1: about where are you? Why are you so angry? Where

884
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: is your hate coming from? Because yeah, I can be

885
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 1: mad at your hate. I can be mad that you're

886
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, you just said something racist, or you knock

887
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: me down a peg, or you misjudged me. But if

888
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: I'm trying to fix the relationship, I've got to understand

889
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: what are you going through? Where did that perception come from,

890
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: what's your history? What puts you in this spirit of hate?

891
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: Because that's going to dictate how we can even begin

892
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: to have the conversation. I don't lose my authenticity in

893
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: that because I know who I am, right, but I

894
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: have to make room to understand who you are. That's

895
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: either strategy or empathy. But to me, effective communication, especially

896
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: if you're a leader, if you have the power, it

897
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: requires a step back. Yes, right, And I think that's

898
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: what going high is, and I do you're right. I

899
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: think in this day and age, we've kind of supplanted

900
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: that consideration. Because my feelings count. My voice has to

901
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: be heard, which is also why I think we have

902
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: to learn how to hear people throughout. We have to

903
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: give people a space to be heard outside of the anger, right,

904
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: because that's where all that's coming from. Right. When people

905
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: can't mature their response, it's because they don't have a voice.

906
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: It's like and if I don't have a voice in

907
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: regular conversation, then I will make you hear me.

908
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: Yes, right.

909
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: Young people feel that way, absolutely right. Oppress people feel

910
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: that way. People who don't have a stake and it

911
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: feel that way. Which is why I think it's strategic

912
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 1: to give everybody a piece of something so that they

913
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: feel seen and heard. I think that brings that ratchets

914
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: down the anger, the explosiveness, because people can guarantee that

915
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: they are being seen, they'll be heard. They don't have

916
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: to yell, they don't have to tear something apart, they

917
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: don't have to break it because they own it. And

918
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: we just lose sight of that these days and our

919
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: policies and our perspectives. You can't shut people out, you know.

920
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: I talk about in the light when I think about

921
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: kids from communities that are under invested in their anger,

922
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: their lack of like, I don't none of this belongs

923
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: to me, so why would I protect it? Why wouldn't

924
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: I break down your house or rob you or try

925
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: to take your car because I don't own any of this.

926
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: This country is not mine. They don't see me. Right.

927
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 1: I think we do better with kids if they feel

928
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: like I've got a chance here. This place is investing

929
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: in me, so I'm invested in it. We do that

930
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: with kids in the inner city. But you know, we

931
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: don't talk about education. We don't talk about what we're

932
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: giving them, or whether they have music or joy or

933
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: sports or activities. We just want them to have nothing

934
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: and then be okay with it. But they're going to

935
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: fight to be heard.

936
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 2: Yes, they're going to.

937
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: Fight to be seen, but they're not going to do

938
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: it in a rational way because they don't have a

939
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 1: strategic place and they don't feel like they're a part

940
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: of it.

941
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: So true, so true. When you're trying to go high,

942
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 2: when you're trying to have this view of I want

943
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: to understand your story. I want to get inside your

944
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: mindset and recognize why you have evolved in this direction

945
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: or this particular path. If anything, what does still offend you?

946
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: Like injustice, ego, greed, it's offensive, racism, ignorance, it's offensive.

947
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 1: And I've always been that kid. I don't like unfairness,

948
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: I don't like bullies. But I have to think about

949
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: how I deliver messages that's beautiful still even in my

950
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: pain and my anger and my day disappointment, so that

951
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: those emotions are there, but I have to think about

952
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: where do where do I let that out in a

953
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: safe space, and that's what my kitchen table is.

954
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 3: Right.

955
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: I still have those emotions, but in my public facing voice,

956
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: I have to be responsible, right, and strategic and thoughtful

957
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: about what's going to move the needle, what's going to

958
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: add value. My emotional well being gets taken care of

959
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: at the kitchen table. I can't suffocate those feelings, but

960
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: I can't act them out in the town's square. Yeah,

961
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: because I'm just going to add fuel to the fire,

962
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: and that doesn't help if we're trying to move the needle.

963
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: I don't believe because those feelings are still mine. And

964
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: if you ask me, I'll tell you what I'm angry about,

965
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to lead with that. And in

966
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: the midst of the message, I'll make it clear what

967
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: I stand for and what I don't stand for. But

968
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: the tone and tenor of the message matters. We can't

969
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: just say what the first thing that comes to our minds.

970
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: We cannot. That is not authenticity. To me, that's childish.

971
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: And we see childless leadership right before us. What that

972
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: looks like and how that feels. Where somebody is just

973
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: base and vulgar and cynical in a leadership position. It

974
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: doesn't trickle down well, you know, that just begets more

975
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: of that. I think we are obligated to model for

976
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: those of us that have a platform, because it resonates,

977
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: and I want to resonate good. I want to resonate

978
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: reason and compassion and empathy, and that's more important than

979
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: my feelings because my feelings I can take care of those.

980
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 2: That is, that's a masterclass in communication right there. Genuinely,

981
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,959
Speaker 2: that is to hear that from you with so much

982
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 2: empathy but energy is so empowering for everyone who's listening

983
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 2: and watching, because I think we've approached it from the

984
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 2: other way around today. I think my personal feelings, not mine,

985
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 2: but in general, how we feel. My personal feelings have

986
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: become more important than moving and supporting and serving and

987
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: caring and getting to where we need to get to.

988
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: And that's because we've suppressed those feelings. That's why that

989
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 2: has happened. It hasn't happened because people are mean or insensitive.

990
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,959
Speaker 2: It's happened because people feel they've been so unheard. Going

991
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: back to your point, and that's why we need to

992
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 2: give space, We need to get let this rise. How

993
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: early did you start recognizing this for you and your

994
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 2: own life, like where do you remember, like the earliest

995
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 2: before the White House, like where you actually were? Like

996
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 2: this worked, like this made sense and I still felt

997
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 2: good because I had my kitchen table. Is there anything

998
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: that comes to mind, and.

999
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: Do I go to childhood. I don't think I knew

1000
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: anything that was when I was little, but I think,

1001
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: you know, I learned it on the campaign trail. It

1002
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: was a product of one of the hardest moments that

1003
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: I had on the campaign trail, but one of the

1004
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: best growth moments. And I write about this in the

1005
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: light when I was accused of not loving my country

1006
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: because of some phrasing I said. I learned first of all,

1007
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: that when you have a public forum, especially in this

1008
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: day and age, that in your like competing people will

1009
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: distort you whenever they can, and if they distort your words,

1010
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: your truth, even your personhood, which I felt like people

1011
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: attempted to do with me. With us, they tried to

1012
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: otherize us as the first black people, accusing my husband

1013
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: of being a terrorist and not being born in this country,

1014
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: accusing me of being angry black women. And you know

1015
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: the labels that can easily get put on others that

1016
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: people that are othered right to make people afraid of us.

1017
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: That that is a strategy that gets played again and

1018
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: again and again. It was being played on me, and

1019
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: it got me to the point where I was almost

1020
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: ready to quit campaigning. Right, But then I thought, I

1021
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: have to be more strategic than they are about how

1022
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: I deliver my message. I have to be authentic, but

1023
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: I also have to be careful so that I don't

1024
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: get mischaracterized. I have to be smarter than them. That

1025
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I stop, but I had to regroup for

1026
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: a minute there and really evaluate how am I going

1027
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: to regain control over my narrative and communicate in a

1028
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: broad way that allows me to be heard, especially as

1029
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: a black woman. Yes, here being critical or being off

1030
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: authentic or passionate, right, that was a learning curve to me.

1031
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I think my sentiments about the importance of

1032
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: communication are always there. Yes, my belief in how important

1033
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: it is that stories connect us that was there. I

1034
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: learned that in life, but learning how to do that

1035
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: on the public stage. I learned the tricks and pitfalls

1036
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: of it in my first campaign. Yes, and those lessons

1037
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: stay with me.

1038
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's thank you for the example. That example definitely

1039
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 2: connects you reminded me of probably one of my favorite

1040
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 2: set of words from Martin Luther King, where he said

1041
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 2: that people who love peace need to learn to organize

1042
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 2: themselves as well as those who love war. For those

1043
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: us who love love and love peace and love, compassion

1044
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 2: and empathy. If we're not organized about it, if we're

1045
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 2: not strategic about it, if we're not thoughtful about it,

1046
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 2: that's it won't have the impact that we all pray

1047
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 2: for it to have. Michelle, You've been so kind and

1048
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 2: generous with your time. We end every episode with a

1049
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 2: final five. These are the fast five, which I always

1050
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 2: ruin because I'm too interested and curious. They're usually answered

1051
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 2: in one word to one sentence. Oh, but I know

1052
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to ruin it. So it's like,

1053
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 2: so the first question I have to ask you, Michelle,

1054
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 2: is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

1055
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: Heard A lot of it from my wives, Mom, come home,

1056
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: we like you here to explain that. It was like

1057
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: my parents always taught me that the world won't always

1058
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: like you, but you can't count on the world to

1059
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 1: like you. You come home to be liked, You go

1060
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: out there to get your education, to earn a living,

1061
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: you won't necessarily find people who will see you or

1062
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: love you or like you. You get that here, right,

1063
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,959
Speaker 1: And that's been a peace of advice.

1064
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 2: That Oh that's beautiful. Thank you. That's so powerful. Now

1065
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: a lot of people who need to hear that right now.

1066
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 2: Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard

1067
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: or received?

1068
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that the worst advice

1069
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: stays with me. You let it go, my brother, This

1070
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: isn't the worst, right, But it goes back to what

1071
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: we were saying earlier. You know, he's like, when you

1072
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: get into the White House, you got to be careful.

1073
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: No new friends, right, That's not who he is. But

1074
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: you know, it was a way of saying, be careful.

1075
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: I think staying open was more important in this phase

1076
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: in our lives than being closed off. I'm glad we

1077
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: stayed open.

1078
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 2: I'm glad. To question number three, you said that the

1079
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 2: White House doesn't change you, it reveals more of who

1080
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: you are. What did it reveal to you about yourself?

1081
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: That I'm pretty strategic and smart and resilient. The White

1082
01:01:55,480 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: House tests you in ways that you never anticipate paid it.

1083
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: And the fact that we came out as a family,

1084
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: as individuals, the four of us, me and our two daughters.

1085
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: That was us. That was our values, our compassion, our

1086
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: our smarts, our strategy that got us through. You know,

1087
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of my husband, the way he led,

1088
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: the way his administration worked, the team that we built,

1089
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: So proud of everyone. I may have diverted from the question,

1090
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 1: but beautiful, I think that's that's because of who we are,

1091
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: and I know that now I can.

1092
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 2: I can see it in your eyes and feed it

1093
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: from you a where it's like it's might It must

1094
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 2: be hard, like knowing that you know it can't always

1095
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,439
Speaker 2: be that way. In one sense, it's almost like great

1096
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:57,959
Speaker 2: that you've been able to leave, But there's a there's

1097
01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 2: that feeling also like oh but that was great.

1098
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean, the bars are different for people in life

1099
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: that I've learned. This is the thing about being another

1100
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: You learn how to be excellent all the time, because

1101
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: you can't be less than other people can Other people

1102
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: can be indicted a bunch of times and still run

1103
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: for office, black man, can't. You just learned to be

1104
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: good and in the end you benefit from that extra resilience.

1105
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: You know, you could be mad about it, but it

1106
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 1: also makes you more equipped, right, but it's still not fair.

1107
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Question number four got two more left. Question

1108
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 2: number four, You've obviously already began living and will leave

1109
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 2: an incredible legacy for the work that you've done. If

1110
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 2: you could describe what that you'd want that legacy to read,

1111
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 2: if someone was reading it or hearing it, what would

1112
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 2: it What would it say.

1113
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: That she helped more young people feel seen? Because I

1114
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: start with young people, because with one word we can

1115
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: change a kid's life, we can lift them up, but

1116
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: that same wrong, one word can crush them forever. And

1117
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: those are the building blocks of our humanity. How we

1118
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: treat our kids, all of them right? And so I

1119
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: hope that my legacy is creating a stronger foundation for

1120
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: young people.

1121
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 2: A fifth and final question we asked this to every

1122
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 2: guest who's ever been on the show. More appropriate with

1123
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: guests like yourselves. But if you could create one law

1124
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: in the world that everyone had to follow, what would

1125
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 2: it be.

1126
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 1: Everybody should have a home to live in, food to eat,

1127
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: a job, to go to an education period. There would

1128
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: be the fundamental rights of everyone in the world. Now

1129
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: there could be levels of that. You know, we would

1130
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: not live in a world where so few have so

1131
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: much and so many have nothing, and that law would

1132
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 1: create some kind of equity. We have this trickle down approach, right,

1133
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: that's the basis of a capitalistic economy, right, But that's

1134
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 1: not happening. It's not trickling the law would it would

1135
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: require in whatever way. If we're not trickling voluntarily, then

1136
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: we need to be forced to trickle mandatory trickling down.

1137
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 2: What's blocking that, what's what's doing that?

1138
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: I think fear? Yeah, I mean I write about fear

1139
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,479
Speaker 1: because I think fear is at the source of so much,

1140
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: because I think the people who have a lot are

1141
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: afraid of not having enough. And it's not rational, right,

1142
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: But we fear the other two And so it's hard

1143
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: to give to people that you think you should be

1144
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: afraid of because you can't connect with them. We're all human,

1145
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 1: We're so alike. I don't care about skin color or

1146
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: how we pray or how we love. We're all the same.

1147
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: What keeps us from seeing that is fear. I don't

1148
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: know you. You're different, so I got to be afraid

1149
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: of you, and I can't. I have to make sure

1150
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: you don't come into my space. And then we live

1151
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: in a culture where people with power prey on fear

1152
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: to get more power. I'm going to make you all

1153
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: afraid of each other, and then I can come in

1154
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 1: and rule it all. I think fear is set the

1155
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:01,479
Speaker 1: root of that shall.

1156
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 2: I deeply appreciate your time, your energy, your presence, the eloquence,

1157
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 2: but also the deep energy you bring to conversations like these,

1158
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 2: and I'm definitely grateful for the light you carry, and

1159
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 2: I'm very deeply appreciative for you sharing it on on purpose,

1160
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 2: and I hope this will be the first of many

1161
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: conversations together. So thanky, thank you so much, thank you.

1162
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: We'll talk again.

1163
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy

1164
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 2: my interview with doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change

1165
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 2: your life by changing your brain.

1166
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 3: If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with

1167
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 3: a healthy brain.

1168
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 2: You know.

1169
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 3: I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over

1170
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 3: a thousand convicted felons and over one hundred murderers, and

1171
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 3: their brains are very damage