1
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,280
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Rosie O'Donnell, and this is Onward

2
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,000
Speaker 1: my podcast, episode four. Today I'm going to talk to

3
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,159
Speaker 1: the wonderful Dylan mulvaney. And you know who Dylan mulvaney is.

4
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,119
Speaker 1: I think the whole country knows who Dylan mulvany is.

5
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,480
Speaker 1: When I met her, all I thought was she could

6
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,280
Speaker 1: be one of my kids. I totally felt maternal to

7
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,239
Speaker 1: her right away in walk this young woman to my

8
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:42,360
Speaker 1: home in Malibu, so happy and joyous and vulnerable. And

9
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,480
Speaker 1: I asked her how old she was and she said

10
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,120
Speaker 1: twenty six, And you know I got a twenty five

11
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 1: and to twenty seven, so she fits right in there.

12
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,000
Speaker 1: And I had read that she did not consider herself

13
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,520
Speaker 1: or does not consider herself, an activist, and I found

14
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 1: that so fascinating and kind of comforting to me, because

15
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,479
Speaker 1: what she's trying to do is live her life truthfully

16
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,319
Speaker 1: in a time full of social media where that has

17
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 1: changed the way the world relates. And I think there's

18
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 1: no way to stop it now. Her TikTok. But she

19
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 1: did about her experience three hundred and sixty five days

20
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: a girl that ten million followers. Let's think about that

21
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 1: she's not political, you know, she's just trying to figure

22
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 1: out her life and she's twenty six and she should

23
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,600
Speaker 1: be allowed to do that. Night also wanted to read

24
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,360
Speaker 1: you a quote that I had had read before this interview,

25
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: and I took to heart. This is Dylan mulvaaney quote.

26
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,240
Speaker 1: She says, I'm really uncomfortable calling myself an activist. I'm

27
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 1: only one year into my transition. I'm a musical theater major.

28
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 1: I love Broadway. I can talk on my own personal experiences,

29
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 1: but I get really nervous sharing about my community at large,

30
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 1: as far as trans people. So I want to come

31
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,960
Speaker 1: from a personal place, like all of our journeys. Beautiful sentiment,

32
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: really well said and well thought out. And you know,

33
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 1: I took that to heart, and I got to spend

34
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,520
Speaker 1: an hour with her, and she was just wonderful. She

35
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 1: warmed my heart, she really did. And I got to

36
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 1: ask her a couple of questions about things that you know,

37
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 1: my kids make fun of me about, like you know,

38
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: when I will say something wrong and they constantly correct

39
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,840
Speaker 1: me on all of this stuff, on pronouns and on

40
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,520
Speaker 1: what you can say and what you can't say. And

41
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,799
Speaker 1: you know, it was my ten year old daughter who

42
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 1: said to me, you know, mommy, some kids in my

43
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 1: class don't know their gender. And I said, well, you know,

44
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to tell. You know, you're a boy

45
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 1: or a girl, right, And she said, no, mommy, there's

46
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,799
Speaker 1: two sexes. There is lots of genders. I was like,

47
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 1: hold the horses. Year. This kid's ten years old and

48
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 1: I'm a sixty one year old lesbian activist and They're

49
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 1: able to put words to it in a way that

50
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 1: I haven't really fully learned yet. And I'm so supportive.

51
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,680
Speaker 1: I'm a member. These are my family, this is these

52
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,520
Speaker 1: are my people LGBTQIA. I'm one of them, forever and always,

53
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 1: and I want to support the young ones coming up.

54
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 1: Let me just take a moment to say, the younger generation,

55
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 1: the Dylan Mulvahy's, you know, all those children, all those

56
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: eighteen year olds who marched in Tennessee to say you

57
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,040
Speaker 1: must stop killing us, you must stop killing us in schools.

58
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 1: It's the youth of today. That's the kids of today

59
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 1: who were going to change and save this country. And

60
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, and about the rest of what's happening in

61
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: the world, what can I say. It's been a lot

62
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 1: of stuff going on, and I don't really know exactly

63
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 1: how I feel about all of it. But the Tennessee

64
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: situation overt systemic racism. You know, there's no two ways

65
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 1: around that right there. This is what happened. This is

66
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 1: like we're reading the fascist handbook, people, So we gotta

67
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: stay alert. We gotta stay alert. Regarding Dylan. You know,

68
00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,760
Speaker 1: Kid Rock shot up some bud Light because bud Light

69
00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:33,240
Speaker 1: sent her a congratulatory six back with her face on it,

70
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 1: and Kid Rock had to take an assault weapon and

71
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 1: shoot the boxes of beer, like proving what I mean.

72
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: Beer companies have been supportive of the lgbt QIA community

73
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: for decades. This is not the first time. You know,

74
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 1: who do you think sponsors Pride? Come on, gay people,

75
00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,159
Speaker 1: trans people, we drink beer too, oh man, put down

76
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,080
Speaker 1: your gun. Kid Rocket's in bad taste, especially after what

77
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: happened at the school in Nashville. Okay, well, Dylan's here.

78
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy it. I hope you leave a

79
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: comment for me on my TikTok or my Insta, or

80
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 1: you can send me a voice memo that we might

81
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,159
Speaker 1: use here on the show. And all you have to

82
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,479
Speaker 1: do is go to Onward Rosie at gmail dot com.

83
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 1: What is that Onward Rosie at gmail dot com. Leave

84
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,479
Speaker 1: a little voice, memo, a question, a comment, things you like,

85
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: things you don't. It's all good, people, It's all good.

86
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 1: Dylan mulvaney, and we kind of jump right into this

87
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 1: because I was talking to her at the beginning, trying

88
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 1: to say you're safe here and I care about you,

89
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,159
Speaker 1: and I'm on your side and everything's good, and you know,

90
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 1: I don't do gotcha interviews. We were talking on the

91
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,160
Speaker 1: couch and my producer Laurie is there and she's going

92
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 1: get by the mics, get by the mic. So we

93
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,839
Speaker 1: stood up and still talked as we were walking to

94
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 1: the mics. So when it starts and it's gonna you're

95
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 1: going to well, you'll be in the middle of an

96
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,000
Speaker 1: interview without an intro. I hope that's okay. All right, people,

97
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: peace out, Listen to Dylan. I don't want to say

98
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,240
Speaker 1: the wrong thing. And that's the funniest part is like

99
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: I am not that person that you would ever have

100
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,359
Speaker 1: to worry about like hurting, because I grew up with

101
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,720
Speaker 1: a family that is so deeply conservative and Catholic that

102
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 1: like me and you are as close like it's it's

103
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 1: it's a breath of fresh air sitting next to another

104
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 1: queer person, because I didn't grow up with queer people, right,

105
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 1: And so, well, now, where were you raised? I would

106
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,160
Speaker 1: saying I was raised in San Diego, which in theoretically

107
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 1: sounds very um, you know, open minded, but totally liberal. Right. No, No,

108
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,080
Speaker 1: I would know that the farther away from the ocean

109
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 1: you get there, the sort of more conservative it becomes.

110
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,480
Speaker 1: And I was in a tiny little town called Alpine,

111
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 1: and it was truly a very tight knit community of

112
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,960
Speaker 1: like just conservatives. And did you go to Catholic school?

113
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,400
Speaker 1: I went to Catholic school for yeah, twelve years, I

114
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 1: did go. I went to dance class though, at this

115
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 1: little studio, and I was the only boy in the

116
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: dance studio. Old were you? I started when I was three? Wow,

117
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,240
Speaker 1: I came out to my mom when I was four

118
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 1: as a girl. Now I want to I want to

119
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 1: talk about that, yes, because I've read that. And I

120
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 1: read that your mother said, well, listen, God doesn't make mistakes, right,

121
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 1: And what did that say to your baby brain? Well,

122
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,680
Speaker 1: I think I trust you know, the adults in my

123
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,680
Speaker 1: life growing up, anything that they said. I took as

124
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 1: the word because I wanted. I've always been a people pleaser.

125
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to make others happy. I've always wanted

126
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 1: to entertain people. I think we can relate, and when

127
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 1: it came to the God asked act of it, I did.

128
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 1: I grew up believing that like it was his way

129
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 1: or you know, or this this spirit's way or the highway.

130
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,640
Speaker 1: But it was a strictly Catholic yes, So I don't

131
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 1: think when my mom said that, though, that it meant

132
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 1: that like me feeling that way was a bad thing.

133
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 1: I think it was just like a reassurance of like, no,

134
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,600
Speaker 1: you're you're who you're supposed to be. Because it was

135
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 1: the year two thousand and again lived in a very

136
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 1: small town. They did bring me to a few therapy sessions,

137
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,199
Speaker 1: but even you know, during that time, kids really did

138
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,440
Speaker 1: not have access to any of those things. It was

139
00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 1: such a rarity to explore gender for a child. And

140
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 1: now it feels very you know, blown up in common,

141
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 1: but but way to have a question. So they brought

142
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: you to therapy, your parents did, because you said you

143
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 1: thought you were a girl. Yes, yeah, And did the

144
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 1: therapist try to convince you out of that notion. You know,

145
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 1: I can't remember, and I think that there was also

146
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 1: so much going on. My parents were going through divorce

147
00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 1: at the time when you were four, yes, right around

148
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,960
Speaker 1: that time, and so I think that, honestly, all of

149
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: those thoughts sort of got locked away, And what ended

150
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 1: up happening was that my queerness coming out as a

151
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:19,160
Speaker 1: gay boy, you know, in my early teens, ended up

152
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 1: being such a issue in itself that there was no

153
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 1: room for transnis on the table because I already thought

154
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 1: that being gay was the worst thing that could happen.

155
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,959
Speaker 1: And so if I was to add that extra layer

156
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 1: of like, oh no, I'm a woman, that I probably

157
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,839
Speaker 1: wouldn't be here right now, because I truly thought being

158
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,800
Speaker 1: gay was so evil. I was told in Catholic school.

159
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,040
Speaker 1: I remember my freshman year, I was like the best

160
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 1: Catholic kid. I mean, I would read it Mass. I was,

161
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, getting a's on all my Bible homework. Were

162
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 1: you an alter boy then? I you know, I never

163
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 1: did the altar boy thing. I did the choir and

164
00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 1: shepherd me, oh God, and I went, you know what,

165
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: I can recite the entire Catholic Mass, No through him

166
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 1: and him with Him and unity of the Holy Spirit.

167
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,320
Speaker 1: All glory and honor is yours all, my Mighty Father,

168
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 1: now forever. Yeah, exactly I can do. Because I went

169
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,679
Speaker 1: to Catholic school. They teach you, you know, all the

170
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,680
Speaker 1: prayers in French, right, um. But I went into this

171
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 1: uh oh, what's it called when repentance reconciliation, when you

172
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 1: repent your sins. And one of my sins had something

173
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: to do with being gay, who knows what. And the

174
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 1: priest looks at me and goes, I'm so sorry, but

175
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,960
Speaker 1: I can't repent your sins, but I wish you well.

176
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 1: And I in that moment, I snapped because I was like,

177
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,160
Speaker 1: I have done everything right. I have been you know,

178
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,840
Speaker 1: I followed every other word. This is like one part

179
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,880
Speaker 1: of my life, and I said, screw it. And I

180
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 1: really pushed back in a way that I was like,

181
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,559
Speaker 1: if if these people are telling me that God doesn't

182
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: love me because of this one thing when I'm doing

183
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 1: everything else right, then maybe this isn't the support that

184
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,199
Speaker 1: I should be looking for. And I ended up leaving

185
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,040
Speaker 1: Catholic school. I went to an art school. I went

186
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: through a very dark period of time in my life

187
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 1: because I lost my faith, but I also, um, you know,

188
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 1: it was trying to come out to a family that

189
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: didn't fully understand what I was going through. Now, tell

190
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 1: me the siblings and the family. When you're four and

191
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,680
Speaker 1: then I have two older half siblings through my mother

192
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,320
Speaker 1: my dad, you were raised with um yes, yeah, I

193
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,600
Speaker 1: mean they were sorry, they were much older. So I

194
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,120
Speaker 1: was kind of just looking to them as you know, like, uh,

195
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 1: the cool kids that I wanted to hang out with.

196
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 1: And then my dad had been previously married and wasn't

197
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,400
Speaker 1: able to have children, and so I was sort of

198
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,000
Speaker 1: this surprise they you know, he didn't ever expect to

199
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,560
Speaker 1: be able to have kids. And what's been really cool

200
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,199
Speaker 1: about him is that like he's like a football loving

201
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, like guy, I saw him, Man, your a

202
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 1: rainbow room special? Oh thank you? You know it's very sweet.

203
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 1: Was that unexpected? When unexpected? I was like breaking down crying.

204
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: He stood up, and at first I remember me thinking like,

205
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,480
Speaker 1: oh God, is he making this about him right now?

206
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,000
Speaker 1: Like what is you know, why are you taking the spotlight?

207
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,599
Speaker 1: Get Adam? I like, Dad, Yeah, he needed He was

208
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 1: the one that needed to hug me because I was

209
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,839
Speaker 1: with um my friend a looke do you know a

210
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 1: Looke on Instagram, an amazing non binary human being that

211
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: no but I would love to follow them. M A

212
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 1: Looke was sitting next to my dad and said that

213
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,280
Speaker 1: my dad was like shaking throughout the show and like

214
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,079
Speaker 1: JO had to console my dad. And so that moment

215
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 1: was so sweet. And I think that it meant a

216
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: lot to queer kids that don't have a parent that

217
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: would hug them in a moment like that. And I

218
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,679
Speaker 1: actually think, you know, because I'm so under fire right

219
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 1: now from certain news sources, that that's like their worst

220
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,240
Speaker 1: nightmare is seeing a parent comforting their trans child. And

221
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, even I'm an adult, but I think at

222
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,080
Speaker 1: the end of the day, that's still my dad. And

223
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: for them to, you know, to a show of like

224
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,960
Speaker 1: this is apparent child connection and that comes first before anything.

225
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,080
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that now you've told me that you

226
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,280
Speaker 1: have children, I do at your age, yes, and you're

227
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 1: right in between my first and second. Oh my god.

228
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,719
Speaker 1: I have a son who one day I would love

229
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,480
Speaker 1: for you to meet them. I have a daughter who's

230
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 1: twenty five, a son who's twenty three, a daughter who's

231
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,199
Speaker 1: twenty okay, and a ten year old. Oh my God, Okay,

232
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 1: you hit it when now I'm your twenty six year

233
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,599
Speaker 1: old there you go. I so your dad was supportive,

234
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,800
Speaker 1: always your dad relatively. I think there was when you

235
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 1: came out as gay at twelve thirteen. I came out

236
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,360
Speaker 1: at fourteen because my mom read my text messages. I

237
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 1: was with an Eagle scout. We had been kissing and

238
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: like he was like sweet as can be. But my

239
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,320
Speaker 1: mom that was like a shock and fun you know.

240
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,319
Speaker 1: I was like, I was the gayest kid ever. I

241
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 1: saw you on Prices right. You were right, Yes, you

242
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 1: were the gayest kid on Prices right. But it's so

243
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 1: funny because there was a boy in my school who

244
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: came out to his parents and said, I'm gay, but

245
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,320
Speaker 1: I'm not Dylan Mulvaaney gay. And I thought that was

246
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,560
Speaker 1: the most offensive thing I'd ever heard, because I was like,

247
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,800
Speaker 1: I'm not that gay, Like what are you talking about?

248
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 1: And now I was like, oh, babe, Like that femininity

249
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 1: that was there that I was like forcing down so

250
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 1: desperately was actually just my transnis that didn't have like

251
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 1: a way to get out, and it didn't have a way,

252
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,560
Speaker 1: And it was so funny too. I went to college

253
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 1: for musical theater. And where'd you go? The Cincinnati Conservatory?

254
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,760
Speaker 1: You say, wonderful school for that, and we we gotta

255
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 1: get to Broadway. I there, I really tried to shed

256
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 1: so much of that feminine energy because I would, you know,

257
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 1: they train you to be these like ensembles strapping, you know,

258
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,040
Speaker 1: jocks that can lift girls. And I tried to be

259
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 1: that and I failed every time. And now it all

260
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 1: makes so much more sense because I was basically conforming

261
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 1: to this industry that I didn't see trans people on Broadway.

262
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,040
Speaker 1: I didn't, you know, I was so scared that to

263
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 1: get because those thoughts were always there in my mind

264
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,400
Speaker 1: ever since I was young. And I'm staying with you, yes,

265
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,920
Speaker 1: but I truly I've always been such a glass half

266
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 1: full type person that I knew that, you know, since

267
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 1: transnis wasn't an option for me then, because it was

268
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 1: so terrifying that like, I was still happy. And I

269
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 1: think there's this notion of like every day that a

270
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 1: trans person you know, doesn't come out, that it's like

271
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,160
Speaker 1: truly horrible, right, But I was able to suppress it

272
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 1: in a way that like I still was able to

273
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,920
Speaker 1: experience joy. I booked, you know, the Book of Mormon,

274
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,320
Speaker 1: and I went out on tour and that was a

275
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 1: dream come true because all I wanted to do was

276
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,160
Speaker 1: sing and dance and make people happy. But I wasn't

277
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 1: fully me. And so I look back at that time

278
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,600
Speaker 1: and I don't resent it because I was just doing

279
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,040
Speaker 1: my best, and like I was, I know that that

280
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,520
Speaker 1: was specifically like the journey that I've been on. But

281
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 1: I all so now cannot even imagine going back to

282
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 1: that gender, because I will say that, like, even with

283
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,480
Speaker 1: all the hate and the controversy or whatever it is

284
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,080
Speaker 1: with me, that just because I'm trans, it's still worth

285
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 1: it because I wake up every day a little bit

286
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 1: happier than I was before. So your whole life, starting

287
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 1: at four, which is really the earliest memories, right, you

288
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,360
Speaker 1: knew that you were in the wrong body, Yes, and no.

289
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 1: I think yes in the way that those thoughts were

290
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 1: always there. I think body wise, I am still making

291
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 1: some of those decisions I was. I got my facial

292
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 1: feminization surgery, and I'm having to be very particular on

293
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 1: how I share my physical transformation because I never want

294
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,280
Speaker 1: anyone to feel like this is the one way to

295
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,760
Speaker 1: be trans or like these are those steps you have

296
00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,160
Speaker 1: to do to be considered a trans woman. And so

297
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,120
Speaker 1: I also know I have a lot of kids following me,

298
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 1: and I really want to make sure that those decisions

299
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,120
Speaker 1: that they're making are not influenced by me. And even

300
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 1: that word influencer terrifies me because I'm like the fact

301
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: that you know, somebody would buy a, you know, a

302
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 1: skincare product, let alone want to you know, meal or

303
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 1: their gender. Yet right in a way, and I find

304
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,239
Speaker 1: it interesting because there's a lot of people that are like, oh,

305
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: it would be my worst nightmare if my kid came

306
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 1: to me and said that I want to be like

307
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 1: Dylan mulvaney, And it was so insulting. Who said that

308
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,880
Speaker 1: to you? Oh gosh, strangers on the internet. They don't care.

309
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 1: The Internet, Okay, the strangers don't care. Well, if somebody

310
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:39,880
Speaker 1: was to say I want to be like Dylan mulvaney,

311
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 1: if the child was to say that, it might not

312
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,639
Speaker 1: be because they're trans, but maybe they want to wear pink,

313
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 1: or maybe they want to make jokes, or maybe they

314
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,479
Speaker 1: want to try new things. Because that's what I've been

315
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 1: doing this past year. And a question that I had

316
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 1: for you. So we're now Instagram friends and you're ruling TikTok.

317
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 1: Have you now seen of this, like gender stuff come

318
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,560
Speaker 1: up on your timeline and you're for page, Well, for

319
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 1: for sure. I have friends whose children have transitioned um

320
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: three friends, and it's female to male, and so I've

321
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,160
Speaker 1: been very involved in the process and helping the moms

322
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 1: that I know going through it, and uh, you know,

323
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: it's always been an interest of mine. I can't say

324
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 1: that I fully understand it. Dylan. Yeah, And I don't

325
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 1: want this to be offensive. I hope you're not taking

326
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 1: it as a fa I never once thought, as a

327
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 1: tomboy gay woman that I wanted to be a boy.

328
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 1: And how did you know when you were kissing boys

329
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 1: that that wasn't the end all for you? Like, how

330
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: did you know? Do you know what I'm saying? Well,

331
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 1: I want to first actually congratulate you on that statement

332
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 1: of the fact that you're you're leaning into your masculinity

333
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: without taking on like trans manhood, Like that's not what

334
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 1: you are and that's correct, that's not I And it's

335
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 1: interesting too because I think on the flip side of it,

336
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: there's many um men who would like to be more

337
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: feminine or or I remember being a gay boy. You

338
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 1: know they call them twinks, right, I know that. Yeah,

339
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 1: And there are plenty of gay men that are just

340
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 1: feminine and aren't looking to transition to be women, and

341
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 1: we need to celebrate those humans as well. Yes, But

342
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 1: there was always this little buzz in my mind, and

343
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: I remember even hooking up with gay men like as

344
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: as one, thinking like, oh, this, this isn't fully right,

345
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 1: and it's and you know, in the contrast, I actually

346
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: think it's now having taken all these steps and realizing,

347
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is right for me. And I

348
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: actually haven't um started dating yet. That's not something that's

349
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 1: that's come up, just because I've been doing so much

350
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: work on my own transition and that I think it's

351
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: scary to then have someone come in and when you're

352
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 1: in the middle of like transitioning and you know, my

353
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 1: autonomy might change my anatomy, and I think that I

354
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: do fear where my romance will come from. Is it

355
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,400
Speaker 1: going to be I get really scared that if it's

356
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 1: with a gay man, it's because they still see me

357
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: as a man, or if it's with a straight man,

358
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: is it they are they fetishizing me. But at the

359
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: end of the day, I know that I'm worthy of love,

360
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 1: and I'm worthy of something more than just you know,

361
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 1: some sexual experience, because I will be a great girlfriend

362
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: one day. I do want kids, and that's a very

363
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: controversial statement to make as a trans person because we

364
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 1: are so under fire right now as these like groomer

365
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: predator types, and it breaks my heart because to think

366
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 1: that's that would limit my abilities to have children makes

367
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 1: me really sad. Yeah, I can understand that, I really can.

368
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more. Jillan mulvaney. Did you

369
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 1: get any hostility towards you when you were adopting those

370
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: kids as a queer person, No, because I wasn't really

371
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: out when I was adopting them. When when my show started,

372
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: it was nineteen ninety six and I was born and

373
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,479
Speaker 1: you were born, and I had one child, and you know,

374
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 1: gayness wasn't spoken about. Gayness wasn't something that people did.

375
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: People assume I thought they assumed. But then when I

376
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 1: actually said after nine to eleven, you know, I'm a

377
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: gay woman, and it seems like this is the time

378
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,959
Speaker 1: to say it, especially because I was also a foster

379
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 1: parent and I tried to adopt the foster child I

380
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 1: had raised, and the state of Florida banned gay people

381
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: from adopting the forces to children that they raised because

382
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: they found that the State of Florida in a poll

383
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: preferred that baby stayed in an orphanage or a group

384
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: home over to gay people too with a gay parent. Yes.

385
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: So when that happened to me, I was like, well,

386
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: it's time, you know. I felt like God was going

387
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: your up, kid, And so then I told everyone, and

388
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: that was two thousand and two. So I was off

389
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: the air a few months after I officially came out.

390
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: But I was very surprised that people were surprised. And

391
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,959
Speaker 1: the most big comment that I got was, well, you

392
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: said you loved Tom Cruise, and I'm like, right, But

393
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 1: I never said I wanted to get naked with him

394
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: in bed and to nasty. In fact, I made it

395
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: a point to say I wanted him to mow my

396
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: lawn in a white T shirt and get me lemonade.

397
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: Like he to me is the perfect image of a man.

398
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: And Nora Ephron used to say, of course you love him.

399
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: He's almost as beautiful as a woman. Right, she would

400
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: say that to me, But you know, I don't know.

401
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: I never wanted to do him. So to speak, I

402
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: never wanted to hook up, but I love you know,

403
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: I esthetically as a woman, as a gay woman, can

404
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 1: see a gorgeous man and appreciate how gorgeous they are,

405
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: like the statue of David. Yet I don't want the

406
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: meat potatoes happen in anywhere near me, Thank you very much.

407
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: Now do you feel like when that was like under five,

408
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: was it controversy that you were gay? Not really? I think,

409
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, I came out and then my show was over.

410
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: Then I got sued by a magazine. Then I you know,

411
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a tough time for me. But

412
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: but no, I don't think so. It was relatively accepting.

413
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: It was relatively but remember this is nineteen ninety six.

414
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,239
Speaker 1: You know that my show started and they told me

415
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: that there was a new show coming out where a

416
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: gay guy was going to live with a straight girl

417
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: and have a gay best friend and Will and Grace,

418
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: and I thought, that'll never go on the air because

419
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: shows mine too. I was on it even but um, well,

420
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: I can't wait to have that moment for like trans people.

421
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: You know, we've gotten posed now there's been you know,

422
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: we've Laverne Cox, who's doing all these great projects, but

423
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: I want to see trans rom coms. I want to

424
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: see you know, sort of those early two thousand's never

425
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: been kiss types with trans people because the problem is

426
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: we're so easily sexualized. We're often just in ncis. We're

427
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: like the dead prostitutes. Yes, and why why can't we

428
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: show a trans woman in like a happy relationship with

429
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: a straight man? And and that's how I think people

430
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: learn as much as they can go on TikTok and

431
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: watch a video. I really think through scripted and through

432
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: comedy actually is such a healing art form of like learning,

433
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: and it not be being is intimidating because there's like

434
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: a level of like, you know, mystique still involved, right right,

435
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: But that would have changed my life, I think growing

436
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: up and seeing someone on television that was trans other

437
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: than just a prostitute, because we still there, you know,

438
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: the majority of trans women in America right now still

439
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: have to resort to sex work, right and you know

440
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: it said it's terrifying and it's also very dangerous, especially

441
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: in this climate that we're in right now with all

442
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: this anti translator. Let's talk about that for a second. Okay,

443
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: First of all, there was big controversy when Drew Barrymore,

444
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: the adorable Gertie from Eat Yeah, got down on her

445
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: knees like she does often, very wild flower child, hippie girl,

446
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: and she gets down on the floor when she gets

447
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: emotional and hugs people's legs and sits on their laps.

448
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: And she did that with you. She felt very connected

449
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: to you. You could tell there was a vulnerable moment

450
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: you had good you know, chemist Tree, and she did

451
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: what she always did, and it becomes a big thing.

452
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean, and I will tell you I have tried

453
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: to be the most uncontroversial person this past year, and

454
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: somehow it has made me controversial still. And I think

455
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: it comes back to the fact that these people they

456
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: don't understand me, and anything that I do or say

457
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: then somehow gets taken out of context and is used

458
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: against me. And it's so sad because everything I try

459
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: to put out is positive. It's trying to connect with

460
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: others that maybe don't understand me. It's to make people

461
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: laugh or to make a kid feel seen. And I

462
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: think Withdrew, we still haven't seen a ton of trans

463
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: people on do the talk show circuit right, And and

464
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: she and I I think have such a similar sort

465
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: of innocence towards life and just seeing the best in

466
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: others and gushing over each other. And I left that

467
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: interview thinking, oh my god, that was the best that

468
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: was the best day. And then they took it and

469
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: they turned it into something ugly. And what did they

470
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: turn it into? That she shouldn't kneel to you because

471
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: kneeling as subservient? What was the process of it's the attack? Like,

472
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: what was the instigator? What was their point of view?

473
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: Bullying in the fact that they want anyone who associates

474
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 1: themselves with trans people to be under fire. They want

475
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: to essentially shame people into thinking that if you associate

476
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: with someone like me, that you are to be laughed at,

477
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: or that you are now the crazy one. And oh,

478
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: because you're giving into someone's identity or you're simply just

479
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: like acknowledging their their humanity. Yeah, what about that she acknowledged?

480
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: And this is what changed it for me though, was

481
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: that if someone like shouldn't I be listening to the

482
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore's or the rosies and not the other side

483
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 1: of things? Because these are the people that I emulate,

484
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: these are the people that I look up to my

485
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: role models are now inviting me into their spaces to

486
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: join and hold hands and to talk and to get

487
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: to know each other and call each other friends. And

488
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: I think that's what I'm trying to focus on. Funny enough,

489
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: Chelsea Handler, who I grew up loving her comedy, she

490
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: gets a lot of the same hate that I do

491
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: from some of the same people. And I was like, wait,

492
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite people and they're under

493
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: attack from the same you know, humans that are going

494
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: after me. I think I like this side better that

495
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm on, of course, and yet because of the people

496
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: pleaser in me, I'm going, oh, how but how can

497
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: I show them that, you know, I'm not this monster?

498
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: How can I you know, appease them? I don't know

499
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: the answer to that right now. It's gotten so bad

500
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: to the point for the community and with all these

501
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: bills that I'm like, we just have to stay alive

502
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: and we this is the time I think, for not

503
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: only just every day straight people, but we need that

504
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: the letter alphabet to show up for us because I

505
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: think it's all hands on deck. It is not a

506
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: time to you know, sit idle. I started my transition

507
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: just a year ago publicly. I had been taking hormones

508
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: before that, I'd come out to my family and friends,

509
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: but I have watched it get so much worse as

510
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: my timeline has gone on, and it's been very kind

511
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: of odd to compare the two my transition as well

512
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: as all this anti trans legislation simultaneously. And the reason

513
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: that I think I am so I'm an easy target

514
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: is because I'm still new to this. I think going

515
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: after a trans woman that's been doing this for like

516
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: twenty years is a lot more difficulty. Good luck, Yeah,

517
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: And so I think maybe they think there's some sort

518
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: of chance with me that they can But what is

519
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: their first of all, You're you're very young, honey. Yeah,

520
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: and I don't mean that in any way In Celtic.

521
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: I just literally am your mom. We met seeing Sunday

522
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: in the Park with George. We love the because we

523
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: are both Broadway people. Yeah we are. And thank you

524
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: for for the exposure you gave the community on your shoes?

525
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? What was your first Broadway show

526
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: that you were in? Was it? It was Book of Mormon.

527
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: I was touring with that show, um, and then now

528
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: I have yet to take on a character as a woman.

529
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: Have you did you do it on Broadway as well?

530
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: Or were you all know I was just tour. You

531
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: haven't been. I haven't made my debut debut yet. Oh interesting?

532
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: And now do you go around again to all the

533
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: same casting agents. Do you go to Bernie Telsey? Do

534
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: you go with him today? He's fantastic, He's the best.

535
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: I think what's so exciting was that I was just

536
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: at the beginning. You know, I had graduated when I

537
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: was twenty two. That was my first audition was Mormon,

538
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: and so I hadn't met most of the people in

539
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: the industry yet. So they're most of these people are

540
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: now meeting me as a woman, and so it's nice

541
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: that they don't have to sort of correct themselves because

542
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: they aren't Like I even think it's very stressful to

543
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: imagine if somebody was already in the spotlight and famous

544
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: and then having to transition. You know, I'll get Elliott

545
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: Paia Page and it's that's intense because you are now

546
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: trying to correct you know, all of your fans, you know,

547
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: interpretations of you and the way that people view you

548
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: were as truly because this all started through my transition,

549
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: people do see me as as a woman, except sometimes

550
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: like I'll be on the street and they'll be like,

551
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's it's the boy from TikTok and

552
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, it's the girl from It's like all

553
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: like that's my whole platform, right, But I wanted to

554
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: ask you something. You know, you come to throw my videos.

555
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: You're like, you're a woman, not a girl, right only

556
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: when you graduated after after your Now, do you ever

557
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: call yourself a girl anymore? Or do you always refer

558
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: to yourself as a woman? I think a woman? Yeah,

559
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: just you know. Also, I had kind of a hectic

560
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: childhood to put it mildly, but um, you know, I

561
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: think that being a child for me was so much

562
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: more difficult than anything I ever had to handle as

563
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: a woman. Right, So you know, I'm proud to be

564
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: a woman. My mom died, well, my mom died when

565
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: she was thirty nine. So I wanted to retire at

566
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: forty and I did, and I was like, wow, and

567
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: raise those kids, and you know, here I am with

568
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: another little one. But yeah, you know, I'm kind of

569
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: one of those people who loves being a mother so

570
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: much that it kind of trumps everything. Yeah, you know,

571
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: everything for me to get to stay home. You know,

572
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: people like, well, let's go out on Saturday. I'm like, well,

573
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: I have my kid, you know, like, well get a babysitter.

574
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: But we can't preach his autism. And she's very sensitive

575
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: to the noise and places, so we don't go to

576
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: many restaurants. She has a very limited diet. First, I'm

577
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: a mom first and h and I always have been,

578
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: so trying to do it differently wouldn't have worked for me.

579
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: You know Howard Stern always says to me, you walked

580
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: away of hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm like, honey,

581
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: once you have a certain amount and you think you

582
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: still need more, you should go to the shrink. Yeah right,

583
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: you shouldn't go to work, you should go to a shrink. Well,

584
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: and I think there's such a scarcity complex in this

585
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: you know industry of like more is more and I

586
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: now I think about you know this social media. There's

587
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: there's all these brand deals and you know, getting these offers.

588
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, like I want

589
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: to go sing and dance, and I know that that

590
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: won't you know, compete with some of you know, these

591
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: these checks that are come in through social media, and

592
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: yet that's what I really want to do. Well, there's

593
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: there's limited artistry on TikTok oh, yeah, And there's tremendous

594
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: artistry in the world outside of TikTok, the entertainment world.

595
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: And I can imagine you on Broadway. I can imagine you,

596
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, doing something new and wonderful and and and

597
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: quirky and funny. You know that. Uh well, I have

598
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: to remind myself that I think, you know, all of

599
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: these people that we love, especially from the Broadway community,

600
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: if my age might have been doing TikTok, you know,

601
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: they might have a singing on there. And now you're

602
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: on there. Yeah, not singing, thankfully. What got you on there?

603
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: Originally my daughter, who she's now twenty, she's a college

604
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: she's on the dean's list. I'm very proud of her.

605
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: She said to me, Mom, you gotta go on TikTok.

606
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to dance with you. It's

607
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: so silly. I'm not dancing and your sweat. So she

608
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: got me to do this one dance in my sweats

609
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: and some very famous TikTok or whose I don't remember

610
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: his name right now. He did an impression of me

611
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: and then I tagged it whatever, yea yeah, and we

612
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: started and then she goes, you see, now everyone's just

613
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: have to do something, just talk a little something. So

614
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: it took me a while to learn how to do it.

615
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: You know, it took me a while. And just like

616
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: with this podcast that we're doing now, you know, I

617
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: kind of thought to myself, like, you're at the beginning

618
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: of your career, right Imagine being sixty one, having five children,

619
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: having done all these things that I got to do,

620
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: and then going how do I want to finish my

621
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: life and career. There's something about performing live to some

622
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: an audience that's going to feed. Drew back right away,

623
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: and there's nothing so gratification, nothing as good as Broadway

624
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: and stand up. And I moved out here and well,

625
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: we were doing Book of Mormon at the Almondson Downtown, LA,

626
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with it while I was here.

627
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: And when I lived in New York briefly, I was

628
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: living with like three roommates in a one bedroom in

629
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: Times Square and they were stealing all my packages and

630
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, I'm from San Diego, La.

631
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: Sounds really good. So I was at home for the

632
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: pandemic and San Diego obviously going through all this gender stuff,

633
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: and I was like, I need to get somewhere else.

634
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: So I moved to LA started doing stand up because

635
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: it gave me that same feeling that theater gave me.

636
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: And I don't want to be a stand up comedian,

637
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: but I think everybody should try it at least once,

638
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: because it's the most terrifying thing to me. And now

639
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: I feel like I could do anything because I did that. Scyeah,

640
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: that's very very h nerve wracking when you start. Yeah,

641
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: I remember I was only sixteen when I started doing it,

642
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: and the nightclub that a student I was, a guy

643
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: who was a student with his ten year older brother

644
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: opened a nightclub and said why don't you come down?

645
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: Because I did like a plague at the school with

646
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: his brother, and I started at sixteen years old. I mean,

647
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: imagine that the hutzpah of a sixteen year old kid

648
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: going up there to people who paid all that money.

649
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: And what I find fun about it now is that,

650
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: like I think my persona online is very innocent, it's

651
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: very I try to be very appropriate, and but with

652
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: stand up, and now I'm writing a book. I get

653
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: to kind of be a little edgier, I get a curse.

654
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: I get to you know, talk about things that I

655
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: try to censor for the kids watching me, because truly,

656
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: like anything right now trans related will get taken used

657
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: against you. And I almost feel like I lean on

658
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 1: more of like the infantilization, just because they're so quick

659
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: to sexualize trans people. Yes that I feel like that

660
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: is why it's a it's a tough line to walk. Yeah,

661
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: I can imagine it really is. I know that my

662
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: moms who've had trans kids, you know, they go through

663
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: their own journey. And you know, sometimes even with gay kids,

664
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: people write me and say young kids will write me

665
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: and say, you know, I want to come out to

666
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: my mother, but she just doesn't seem And I'm like,

667
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: how long did it take you to come out to yourself?

668
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: You know, it takes you a little bit of a

669
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: time to find a be able to say it. And

670
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: I said it in a car when the doors were

671
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: locked and I was driving with my permit. I am gay,

672
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't believe I was. I was getting it out.

673
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: I was saying it. You know, there was not a

674
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: place in the world that it was safe or felt

675
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: safe to say that back in nineteen seventy eight. And

676
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: I think because of social media being so fast and

677
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: furious right now that people feel this like pressure to

678
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: like make a decision and like announce it like right away.

679
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's funny with like my whole

680
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: day one of girlhood video was like I had come

681
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: out far before that I had actually my pronouns were

682
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: they them? A year before coming out As that was

683
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: I quickly realized that I was not just non binary.

684
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: I was a woman, and that's when I took hormones.

685
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: But I don't want anyone to like look at my

686
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: content and be like this was some decision that she

687
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: made like overnight and woke up and said, it sounds

688
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: fun to be a girl today. Let's make a video

689
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: because this has been an ongoing battle throughout my life

690
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: and something that I took very seriously. It is not casual. No,

691
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's probably the least casual thing, and

692
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: right now, especially with so there's so much on the

693
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: line when it comes to my future in this country

694
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: and a lot of other humans futures that we can't

695
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: be casual about it anymore. No, without a doubt and

696
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: people one has to stick together, allies, straight end gay

697
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: or you stand up for our trans brothers. And because

698
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 1: you're being killed and now you're being legally discriminated against,

699
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: and it's like a calling card to psychos for violence,

700
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah, I'm not worried about the people

701
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: you know that are talking about me on their podcast.

702
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm worried about their listeners. And I also I think

703
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: that we're just who it's. It's a heavy time and

704
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: it's it's just it's the time to step up for sure. Yeah,

705
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: And I'm proud of you. Thank you. I think that

706
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: you've done really well for being so young and to

707
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 1: sort of shoot yourself out of the cannon like you did,

708
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: you know, And I don't know that you expected to

709
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: ten million followers on TikTok. I mean that's kind of

710
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: a Kardashian level fame, right, It's crazy that but it

711
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: feels like ants on a screen, like it literally like

712
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't compute. And then it's when I'm walking

713
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: through Times Square to go see a Broadway show and

714
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, but I do I love getting to

715
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: see these people, especially so much of my audience is

716
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: queer or you know, they're um, you know, teenage girls

717
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: and their moms that follow me together. But it is uh,

718
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: I just wonder what like the trajectory of all of

719
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: this is with social media and like what do you

720
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: think do you like, do you think TikTok is going

721
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: to be around for no? I think the government's probably

722
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: going to take it down because it's really a free

723
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: way of everyone talking and communicating and setting up protests,

724
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: and it's you know, we're we're in a really dangerous,

725
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: treacherous time in this country. For you know, democracy to survive,

726
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: we're going to have to make some pretty quick changes.

727
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: And I think we're moving towards that. I have to

728
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: believe we're moving towards that, or there's no you know,

729
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: hope left. But all we have is hope that the

730
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: goodness of the American people will rise above the insanity

731
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: and all of the hatred perpetrated by the orange snotbag

732
00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: that has fitted and grown into some horrible hate old

733
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: stu that they're being fed every day by propaganda on

734
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: Fox News, by news newspeople like Tucker Carlson who says

735
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: that he you know, he lies and gets paid to

736
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: lie and feels fine about it. I don't know how

737
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: these people live with themselves. So we're in a dangerous time.

738
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: And it's for all of the minorities in this country

739
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: because we're all as one. Well, I will say just

740
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: the fact like being here with you today and you

741
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,479
Speaker 1: being like still willing to learn and to sit down

742
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: with a twenty six year old trans girl to be like, okay,

743
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: what's going I think that is what has to happen

744
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: for everyone in our community, especially because we can't we

745
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: have to learn about the other letters. We have to

746
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: be friends, so we have to protect each other. And

747
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 1: I hope that I never stop learning. And I think

748
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: this is this podcast for you, is that you like

749
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: are still like evolving and growing and thank you for that. Well,

750
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: I hope, you know. I hope that's what we all

751
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: get to do as artists, you know, in society, and

752
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: that you find a way to fit your career and

753
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: your life together in a puzzle that will, you know,

754
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: nurture and sustain you through the difficult trials and tribulations

755
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: that we go through as humans. You know. Yeah, yeah,

756
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: you're lovely, Thank you. I will definitely stand up for

757
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: trans people anytime. And then I always have and I

758
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: always will. Thank you, and don't worry about the negativity

759
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 1: that you're getting. Just keep onward, hunting, move onward forward.

760
00:42:38,160 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: Deal deal deal. All right, welcome back, and we have

761
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: some questions from you the listener, so let's take a

762
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: listen and I'll answer them. Hit it Hi, Rosie Trend

763
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: here in Atlanta. Thank you for coming to us on

764
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: this platform and shining your light once again with such

765
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: great guests. I have the sweetest memories watching your daytime

766
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: show as a kid raised in South Texas, thinking that

767
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: I could shine one day two. But my question is

768
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: about your awesome acting projects. Leak at their Own is

769
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: my all time favorite movie. If you could share the

770
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: screen with anyone from that great cast, Tom Hanks, You're

771
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: budding Madonna, Gina Davis, who would it be and what

772
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: would that screenplay look like? Thanks Rope? Oh God, can

773
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: I call you that? You totally can, Honey, you totally can.

774
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: What a lovely message. Thank you so much for that

775
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 1: really touches me, and I'm sure you have been able

776
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: to shine throughout your life. You have a sunny voice

777
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: and you make me smile when I hear you. The

778
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: League of their Own was the most fun that anyone

779
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: could have making a movie, really, and I think if

780
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: I had to pick someone, I would probably pick Tom Hanks.

781
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: I think he's one of the best actors living and

782
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: I would do anything to work with him. Again, I

783
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: was lucky I got to work with him in League

784
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: of their Own and in Sleepless in Seattle, so, you know,

785
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: to have two experiences with this, you know, amazing, amazing,

786
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: multi generational guy. This you know, Tom Hanks, He's cream

787
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: of the crop people, He's a cream on top. Thank

788
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: you for the question. Hi Rosie, my name is Megan,

789
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: and I just want to say I'm so glad to

790
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 1: be able to hear you interview people again. I pretty

791
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: much grew up watching your show from about seven years

792
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: old to thirteen, and you've always been a strong role

793
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 1: model in my life as somebody who is plus size

794
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: and did not get to see the represent growing up,

795
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: and also being LGBTQ just a little bit different from

796
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: mainstream media, especially in the nineties, it was so nice

797
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: to have that to look up to and to look

798
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: up to. So thank you. Very important person in my life,

799
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: and I love you, even though you don't know who

800
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 1: I am anyway. I was wondering if you had any

801
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 1: life advice for somebody in their early thirties who doesn't

802
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: really know where they're going in life, feeling a bit stagnant,

803
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: and who has too many creative passions and no idea

804
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: how to narrow them down. Thank you, by mate, And

805
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: what a beautiful, beautiful little message. Thank you so much.

806
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: I love the message feature I get to hear from you, guys.

807
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 1: It's it's really nice. Well, thank you for your kind words,

808
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: really and advice. You know. I will tell you this,

809
00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: It goes way too fast. I'm sixty one. I'm sitting

810
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: here going how did I get to be sixty one?

811
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: I was listening to Carol Burnette speak recently on her

812
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: ninetieth birthday a celebration, and she said, she still feels

813
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: like she's in her forties or something, you know, And

814
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, honey, it goes quick. So follow

815
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: your dreams and narrow them down, and pick one thing

816
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: and focus, because you know you can't do everything all

817
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: at once. You got to take one thing at a time.

818
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 1: So if you're lucky enough to do what you love

819
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: and somehow get paid for it, you've won the life lottery.

820
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: You know, no matter what that is. I have friends

821
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: who are painters, and although they've never really sold a lot,

822
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: they paint every day and they take lessons and they

823
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: learn and they study and it's a fulfilling, fulfilling life

824
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: for them. And you know some of them have other

825
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 1: jobs too. In order to get to a point where

826
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: you can quit and do your full time passion, you

827
00:46:54,760 --> 00:47:00,280
Speaker 1: know that's very likely in today's world. But follow your heart.

828
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: Never never lets you down, and never lets you down,

829
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: and know that you can't take it with you, so

830
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: live up, you know, live it up while you can.

831
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody. We'll see you next week, where our

832
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: guests will be Brookshields. We talk a lot about the documentary.

833
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: It really moved me. It's on Hulu. It's pretty Baby

834
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: Brookshields next week Here on Onward with Rosie O'donnald