WEBVTT - 10 Cases of Mistaken Identity 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:04.080 Hey, everybody, it's Josh, and Chuck is here in spirit too, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.360 and we just wanted to drop a casual reminder that 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:11.680 we are going to have a swinging Pacific Northwest Swing 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.400 this coming February, and tickets are now on sale. February 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.520 one will be at the More Theater in Seattle, February 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.440 two will be at Revolution Hall in Portland, and on 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.600 February three, for s F Sketch Fest, will be at 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.600 the Sydney Goldstein Theater. Go check out all of our 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.479 social media's for more information and links to tickets, and 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.920 we'll see you in February. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:45.920 a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.720 the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's hanging 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.919 out too, so that makes us a good old fashioned 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:56.680 Stuff you Should Know, Episode Old School Top ten of Dish. Yeah. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:58.520 Do you think we'll actually make it through ten of these? 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.320 I'm not. Maybe you'll you'll do all tend keep going 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.800 after you log off, how about that? Yeah, we could 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.800 probably get through all ten. And these they're they're pretty uh, 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.360 it's we'll see. Let's just start at the beginning. I 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.680 just want to make sure that we hit the last one, 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.080 number one for sure. Okay, let's do it. Then, all right, 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.920 what are we talking about? Even well, we're talking today 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.679 about cases of mistaken identity, as anyone who read the 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.399 title of this episode or maybe even the synopsis could 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.600 tell you. And we talked a lot Chuck in our 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.560 Doppelganger episode, which hopefully came out before this episode or 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.000 else people won't know what we're talking about. We talked 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.039 a lot about some of this stuff, which is like, 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.319 you know, terrible things can happen if somebody mistakes you 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.400 for somebody else. Um. And that even in in the 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.640 age of facial recognition technology and genetic testing, UM, that 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.760 stuff can still happen. And because of our faith and 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.680 things like facial recognition programs and DNA testing, if if 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.200 you you come up with a mistaken identity case, it 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.760 makes it much harder to be believed when you're like, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.359 I swear to God, it wasn't me, because people say 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:10.639 we've got your d N a man, and it's a match. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.639 It was you. You're just fibbing, yeah, And I think 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.440 it gets a lot more interesting when you're talking about 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.480 mistaken identity for a crime that has been committed. Yeah, totally, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.320 So I already want to skip this first one, can 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.840 we sure, let's do it and we'll go instead to 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.880 uh grand Old Israel, where there was a an Australian 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.720 ex pat named Nicole McCabe who'd been living there for years, 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.119 was married. She was six months pregnant at the time. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:42.480 That has happened in two thousand and yes, and apparently 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.720 she um was watching the news, the local news in Israel, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:50.639 and Um I saw that there was an assassination of 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.679 one of the Hamas chiefs, Mahmoud. I'll mab Mabou, That's 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.400 what I'm going with. Mabu, Yeah, Mabu m ab h 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.040 o u A how else you going to say that? 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.760 That's how I would say it. So Um he was 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.200 assassinated in Dubai and the Dubai authorities were looking for 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.960 twenty six people, and one of them was Nicole McCabe 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.160 and she knew they were looking for because they showed 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:18.760 her passport on television. That's right, So she was like, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.280 what is going on? W t F. So it turns 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:30.080 out that if you are in Israeli intelligence agency and 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.640 it's called Massad, you can say, hey, I want to 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.000 use real identities as a cover. So instead of like 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.360 making up a false identity as a cover for their agents, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.840 they use real identities and they basically use the identities 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.760 of of foreigners living in Israel, and all twenty six 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.400 of these Westerners evidently, and this is why they were suspected, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.440 is because they were real identities used by Massad as 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.560 cover that we're real people, and they just basically lifted 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.920 their information from government databases. It's not like she lost 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.640 her her license in her passport and stuff like that. 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.360 They just took it basically sorry, except they didn't say sorry. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.600 I didn't even say sorry. They just did it. And 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.960 that's so like insidious that apparently the one some of 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.120 the ex pats living in Israel were Brits, and the 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:27.040 UK expelled the highest ranking MASSAD agent from the Israeli 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.719 embassy as a result of this. It's just like you 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.279 don't do that. And apparently that was like standard procedure 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.760 for the MASSAD. So Nicole McKay, being an Australian, was 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.560 expecting that Australia would help her out of like this 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.520 legal jam that she had been gotten into, and they 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.000 were like, how about we just give you another passport, 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:46.320 and she said, is that in And they said, yeah, 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.440 that's it, but you should probably take it because you're 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.640 going to be on every single watch list in the 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.960 world now using your old passport. Just go with a 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.919 new one. Do the smart thing, McCabe and she said, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.200 cry key, let's go Now, this isn't twenty in. I 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.680 wonder if they've stopped using real identities because that just 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.000 seems like a recipe for trouble. It definitely does. It's 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.919 one of those things that was like super reported on, 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.440 and they never reported on the rain so I didn't 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.640 see any follow up stuff, but it was widely reported 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.240 on in different outlets about it, and it wasn't just 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.520 the same story over and over again. It was. It 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:22.560 was investigated, but there wasn't a lot of follow up. Yeah, alright, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.760 moving on to the next one. Number eight or number two, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.719 depending on how you want to number these. This was 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:33.320 a case of a mistaken identity. That also was the 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.880 case of someone else having that same name as well, 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.919 which is we talked a little bit about this someone 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.800 else I think in the Oh no, I don't think 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.560 that anyone had the same name in the Doppelganger episode. 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:49.880 Did they No, No, I don't think so. But that 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.200 was the case with Will West in New York about 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.680 the turn of the twentieth century. Yeah, he was brought 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.040 up on charges of manslaughter and taken to Level and 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:04.360 Worth prison. Um to be um, what's it called when 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:09.479 they induct you. It's not inducted? UM identify you? I 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:14.040 guess when they book you. Yes, you procedurally check you in. Sure, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.080 that's what we'll go with as better than induction. I'll 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.839 tell you that, UM. And he said, I've never been 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.000 here before. I've never been in trouble with the law before. 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.679 H And as part of standard procedure, they followed the 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:31.159 um uh bertillion um process of measuring your head, your face, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.000 the distance between your eyes, the length of your nose, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.120 the width from ear to ear, all this different stuff. 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:42.839 It's a form of what's called anthropometry and throw and throw. No, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.880 I'm going with anthropometry. And we've talked about before, I 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.479 think in the forensics episode, probably the fingerprinting episode. It 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.320 was the way that you distinguished one person from another, 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.400 usually criminals. Before we relied on fingerprints, and apparently it 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.880 worked really well because it was so granular and so 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.599 detailed and so they took will West's measurements and they said, 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.279 you know what, we found somebody with the exact same 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.600 measurements as you. Right, so you have the same name, 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.640 you have nearly identical measurements. According to this French uh 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:19.280 police procedure of of identifying people. Um, you look like 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.520 him in the photograph. It's not just that your head 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.679 measures out the same. And so we think we've got you, buddy, 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.000 and he's like, it's not me, I promise you. And 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.920 as it turns out, the real William West was already 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:36.160 in Leavenworth, already serving a life sentence for murder. And 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.440 even though fingerprinting wasn't widespread, they were able to use 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.600 in the early days of fingerprinting, um, their fingerprints to 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.160 to right this wrong. Yeah. Um. And some people have 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.920 speculated that these guys were actually like related somehow, maybe 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.080 even twins that were pulling a scam um. But as 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.760 far as anyone officially knows, they were essentially doppelgangers. That 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.520 how upen to have the same name, and they looked 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.320 so much alike if you look at pictures of them, like, 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:09.960 they were clearly doppelgangers. Um that will will West when 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.440 he was being booked. They showed him the pictures from 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.960 the past booking and he said, yeah, that's me, but 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:17.920 I don't know where you got that photo. Like that's 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:19.600 how much it looked like him. He thought it was 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.600 a photo of himself. So they ended up um moving 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.320 to fingerprints. I think the Warden of Leavenworth stopped using 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.520 the barche ln Um process like the next day, essentially 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.000 the fingerprints instead, because yeah, because everyone thought the bear 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.959 chelon Um process was like unassailable, and then it showed no, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.000 there's a problem, and fingerprints got got us out of 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.439 this jam. So let's just all move to fingerprints. From 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.720 that point one, the headtime headline the next day said 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:54.400 bird alone process assailable. Exclamation point. Clark says fingerprints rule. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.719 Uh oh, yeah, you're Clark. I got that. Now it 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.960 sounds like he was Clark, all right, And now we 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:09.160 can move on to the case of uh, well, three gentlemen. 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.800 Uh there was a bad guy who committed crimes under 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.760 the names John Smith and a much more fancy pants 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.439 and name Lord Wilton to Willoughby. Uh And it seemed 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.240 like this guy and for about uh geez, for almost 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:29.160 twenty years, was bilking women out of their jewelry by uh, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.320 I guess writing bad checks. He was a con man 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.319 and a thief, and I made a man named Adolph 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:39.960 Beck was mistaken for this man. And it wasn't just 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.200 the case of oh you look like him, we booked you, 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.199 but hey, we cleared it up. This guy did hard time, 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:50.240 seven years in prison. Yeah. So um. Apparently Lord Wilton 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.080 to Willoughby's scam was he would find a woman say 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.880 that he was looking for a mistress, and I think 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.000 he'll do you just find you like me? I like you, um, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.439 And hey, that jewelry you're wearing is kind of shabby. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.360 Why don't you give it to me? And I will 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.480 take it and use it for size to get some 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.520 very nice jewelry. Um. And then he just wouldn't return 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:11.560 the jewelry. And it was such a petty crime. This 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.920 wasn't nice jewelry. Like he must have taken tens of 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.000 dollars worth of jewelry, but he did it very frequently. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.760 He was convicted and put in prison in eighteen seventy seven. 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.280 The exact same crime was carried out in eighteen nine 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.240 by him. But it just so happened that Adolph Beck 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.080 was fingered for that crime, and they were like you 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.720 and you were the same man who was convicted in 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:37.880 eighteen seventy seven, and we know it. And he said, no, 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:39.800 it wasn't me. It wasn't me, and they didn't listen 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.200 to him like you said. He did hard time, like 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:47.200 for years, yeah, for seven years, and he had a 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.320 lot of evidence to prove that it wasn't him. He 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.600 was like, hey, I was in Peru during this initial crime, 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.600 and I can prove that. And he said, also, I'm 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:02.800 not circumcised. Take a look at this, and everyone went hey, no, no, no, 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.280 no no. He said this is important to stop being childish. Well, 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.199 but that's true. He was not circumcised apparently. I mean, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.439 who was the real name. I think maybe Frederick Meyer. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.760 I saw that, I saw William Thomas, William Wyatt. I'm 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.600 not sure. Most people just referred to him as John Smith, 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:26.880 John old circumcised Smith. So, uh, fifteen convictions, seven years 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.640 in prison, and it gets worse. He finally gets out 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:31.880 of prison for a crime he didn't commit. He's in 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.200 his I think he's sixty at this point, and old 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.280 Lord Willoughby was still going to work and this guy 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:42.400 got convicted again for the same guy's crime. Yeah. So somebody, 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.040 luckily and journalists that the Daily Mail had taken an 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.439 interest in this, was like, this is a gross miscarriage 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.440 of justice, Like it's been documented, this is not the 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.600 same guy for years, and they're going after him again. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.280 So he turned public um opinion against the Crown and 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.120 basically pointed to the to the prosecutor and said this 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.040 point his penis right. He said, this man is not 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.680 not not only incompetent, he's almost a fraud. He's such 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.880 a bad lawyer, um, and we should release this guy. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.439 So not only did they release him, the Crown gave 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.240 him a five thousand dollar compensation I'm sorry, five thousand 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.760 pound compensation, I chuck. Not only did I do the 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.560 inflation calculator for pounds, I converted it to dollars. All right, 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.360 let's hear it. So in nine, five thousand pounds was 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.160 worth about six hundred and eighty three thousand pounds today, 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.440 And if you convert that to dollars today, he got 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:39.720 seven hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars. That's about a 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:43.280 hundred grand a year in prison. I get the impression 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.120 he wasn't a bad guy from what I saw, but 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.640 he Um was not a magnet for money. Apparently he 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.320 did not die Um with any money. I'm gonna just 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:53.680 say it. I know how much you hate it. He 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:58.360 died penniless. But one of the upshots of this is 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.240 a direct result of the miscarriage of justice from just 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.480 mistaken identity Um. The British Court of Appeals was established 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.560 like three years after he was convicted the last time. Well, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.240 and it became sort of a hey, eyewitness because I 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.720 think sixteen people identified him, and it sort of became 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.240 a hey, this reliability of eyewitnesses is not something we 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.240 could really lean into all the time. Sixteen people, he 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.120 really did look a lot like him. But I mean, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.720 come on, there's got to be something like, like, you 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:32.120 can't read a genuine protestation from an innocent person. Let's 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.880 let's open our eyes a little bit here, people, Okay, yeah, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:36.720 and open your pants and just check out the penis. 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:38.679 That would have solved that once and for all right. 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.280 They were just so prude. I guess they wouldn't even 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.840 look at that very clear evidence. I mean they were 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.280 Victorian Chuck, all right, Should we take a break. Yeah, 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.199 I gotta say I'm having a lot of fun here, 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:51.760 but I do think we should take a break at 0:13:51.800 --> 0:14:18.400 this point. Okay, let's do it all right. Uh this 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:23.600 one is a little uh sad on a lot of levels. Um. 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.320 This was a medical identity theft. And by the way, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.680 this we want to thank our old If we're doing 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.240 a top ten, chances are it's from our old friends 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.720 at house stuffworks dot com because to write a lot 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.800 of those. This one specifically is by Nicholas Jervis or 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.600 gerbas So. I don't know how you pronounce the thing, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.080 but I think he did a bang up job on 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.520 this one. Bang up job. Uh. So. This is a 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:48.240 case of Anne Dorree Sacks, who lived in Salt Lake City, Utah, 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.400 was a mom at four kids, and um, all of 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:58.440 a sudden was reported that her newborn child under her 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.000 name tested positive for legal drugs, which is a problem 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.200 for that mom. She's like, hey, listen, I got four kids, 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.680 but I don't have a newborn and I certainly don't 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.840 have a newborn that tested positive for drugs. Myth no 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.600 less um. So, not only was the newborn tested positive 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.960 for meth, the newborn had been abandoned by the mother, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.080 who had also split with a ten thousand dollar medical bill, 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.120 Dick's her baby to meth abandons. The baby doesn't pay 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.480 a ten bill, So of course the hospitals like, you're 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.400 a crook and we're not gonna listen anything you said. 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.440 The woman's like, no, I swear to God it was 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.520 not me. And finally turned out that drug addicted um 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:45.400 uh woman had broken into and Dory Sacks's car, got 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.680 her I D which is a lesson, never leave your 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.160 life your license in your car. That's just a bad 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.080 idea all around, got her medical records and then went 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:58.920 and gave birth as and Dorry Sacks and ultimately apparently 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:04.520 amended and Dorr Sachs medical history. Um with with this 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.560 this information that may or may not have been purged. Yeah, 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.760 so you know, who knows what uh this impostor reported 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.040 about their medical history? But Sacks can't find out because 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:20.680 there are laws, privacy laws that prevent the records from 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:25.640 being shown even to her. So basically she has uh 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:27.400 she has to always sort of be on the lookout 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.200 for this. She has in real life a clotting disorder 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:32.920 in her blood and if she's given the wrong blood 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.000 type she could die. So she doesn't really even know 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.600 what's in there for what kind of blood type she 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.200 has on her medical records. So now Andrey Sachs has 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.120 to be just really careful and I guess proactive anytime 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.200 she goes to the hospital or doctor. Yeah, the whole 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.200 thing is called medical identity theft. This happened and I 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.360 think two thousand tennis and it was like a super 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.800 scary two thousand ten things to happen, But apparently it 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.280 was happening at the time early frequently enough that they 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.440 interviewed a couple other people and they were like, man, 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.520 if this happens to you, you are on your own, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.280 because not only is the hospital not helping you, they 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:14.840 sick um basically billing investigators to find out what's going on. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.080 And they interviewed and Dory Sex's like children to find 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.560 out had mommy been pregnant recently. Um. They would not 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.040 believe her. They just they did not take her word 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.200 for it. And it wasn't until she um took a 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.359 DNA test to prove like, this is not my child 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.440 they finally off. I wonder if you could like demand 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.280 that first rather than putting your family through all that, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.520 you know, I think, so you just show up with 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.240 a zip block bag of blood at the investigator's office 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.160 and be like test this. You just plunk it down 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:45.960 on the desk in front of them, or just spit 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:50.960 at them and say collect this. Oh boy, check. That 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.800 turned dark pretty fast. But I liked it. Well, that 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.400 whole story was dark. It's very just a heartbreaking situation 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.960 all the way around. I've got a little positive spin 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.080 for you. Then at the end of the article I read, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.440 you know, this is a different article. Apparently the mother um, 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.760 the actual like biological mom who had abandon her kid, 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:12.960 got let out of jail because she played guilty to 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.280 some other stuff and did some time, and like did 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.040 her time. But and Dory Sachs was interviewed and when 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.360 asked how she felt about it, and she said, if 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.720 the use of my ideas would allowed that baby a 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.760 chance to survive, then it's worth it to me. Wow, 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.040 I thought you were gonna say that, you know, the 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.040 biological momb turned her life around and reclaimed the baby. 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:39.879 And don't be naives. Oh that's a good one. How 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:47.560 about this number five? Or we skipped one, so number four, six, six? 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.320 How can we be that's this bad? At this? I 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:56.040 don't know math, Uh in two thousand three, the cops 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.200 in Britain said, we would very much like to arrestue 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.640 Peter hamm Can and that's how we do things over 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.399 here for cops. Because we think you've murdered someone. We're 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.159 not gonna pull a gun on you, or we're just 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.199 gonna ask you very kindly to come with us. We 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.160 think you murdered murdered a woman in Italy last year 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.520 in two thousand two. You match the description of the person, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.520 and you're coming with me. But this bartender was like, 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:23.040 I've never been to Italy and they're like, you sound 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:24.760 like you have it. As a matter of fact, you 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.400 sound like you're from Italy, friend, he said, but it's 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:31.040 not a true. So this bartender, what was his name, 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.960 Peter Hampkin, I believe he was like, what do you 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.760 guys have never been to Italy. I certainly wasn't there 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.040 when this this murder happened. They said, okay, not only 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.480 do you look just like the description of the guy 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.280 that we're looking for, we're gonna take your blood and 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.840 oh yeah, you're a match, my friend, you're a match 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.120 to this. Uh. I guess the evidence that had been 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.760 found on the scene and um, Peter Hampkin was suddenly 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.040 in a lot of trouble despite the fact that it 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:00.960 was not himp And this is where we were just 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.359 kind of like the beginnings of the true dystopian um 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.440 mistaken identity stuff. Yeah, this one I don't. I mean, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.800 I understand it in a way. But here's how it works. 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.320 If you are using DNA databases to match someone, it 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.600 is going to compare um subsites on the strand that 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.080 are called locusts or together they're called loki. And that's 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.560 just like I've seen it described as showing like the 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.760 genes neighborhood is the physical location of the geneo a chromosome, 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.600 And depending on where you are and what lab you 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.280 are and where you are in the world, you might 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.640 use a different a certain amount of these low key 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.000 as identifiers. In the States, I think the FBI uses thirteen. 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:51.480 In the UK it is ten. And apparently that you 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.480 can like make mistakes, like I thought DNA was the 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.240 gold standard, and reading this, it seems like if you're 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.960 just looking at as low as six low ki for 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.560 a match, then that's can be a real problem. It 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.840 certainly can. I think they thought before that nine gave 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.000 you a one and a hundred and thirteen billion chance 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.760 of a false positive. But apparently people looked into and 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.040 they're like, where did you get that evidence? FBI, and 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.400 they're like, we don't have to tell you'd be quiet. Um, 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.680 So no one's entirely certain what m the actual chances. 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:28.280 But the basis you said d NA was the gold standard, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.280 it totally is for forensics, and the chances are really 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.679 really small that there would be a false match using 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.800 standard search procedures. Because they're looking at I think you 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.560 said thirteen. I believe they've up to ten. Yeah, they've 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.919 uped it to twenty. There's twenty sites that they say 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:47.560 these loki. These loki are going to be the ones 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.800 that we check. And you can have a minimum when 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:54.439 you like, if you arrest somebody and you take their blood, 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.119 you work up a DNA profile of that person, you 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:59.520 have to have at least a minimum of those twenty 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:03.040 cover preferably up to twenty for your for your profile. 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:04.919 And then the more you have and the more you 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.399 match the twenty loca, the less of a chance you 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:12.960 have of a false positive. But it can happen. And 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.800 I think the point of the people who are saying like, um, 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:18.760 we need to talk about this. That there can be 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.639 false positive is because if you are on a jury, 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:23.280 especially if you watch a lot of C s I 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.480 or Law and Order, you're like, you got DNA evidence, 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.000 it's over for you. Pal The idea that it could 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.520 be wrong is just out the window. And they're like, 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.639 we need to train the public injuries better than this 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:37.439 because they think it's it's again unassailable, right, But the 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:43.000 idea is you can always get way more granular with 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:49.080 your DNA uh peek alou and and and really find 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:51.680 out the truth though, right, Well, that's how Peter Hampkin 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.280 finally got off that bartender that kicked this whole thing off. 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.639 He they did a further DNA profile of them, and 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.480 they're like, Okay, it's not you. Because the chances of 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.600 somebody having those same mutations. They look at short tandem 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:08.960 repeating um snippets, which are non protein coding sequences, which 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:12.320