WEBVTT - Ep. 385: A Wild New World 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.680 severely bug bitten in my case underwear listening un podcast. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.360 You can't protect anything presented by first, like creating proven 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.880 versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:35.440 for every hunt first like go farther, stay longer. Oh hey, 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.640 real quick, before we get started. I have sitting next 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:44.840 to me a what I thought to be an extremely 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:50.159 impressive moose shed, and Jana's kind of negged it. You 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.200 know what negging is? I don't know the exact definition, Like, uh, 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.320 how do you explain it? Phil? When you nag something, 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.840 it's a it's a strat feel smaller on purpose, it's 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.959 a straight It was it was popular state. It was 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.680 popularized as a strategy to pick up. Like let's say here, 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:10.959 I'm gonna I'm gonna be me and Krant are gonna 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.760 role play. No, no, I don't want to do it 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.400 that way. Me and Krant are gonna role play? You 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:19.400 neg me? Like, like how you use it as a 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:24.600 pickup strategy as a hit on strategy, like I would 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.160 say to Krinn instead of being like, oh, let's say 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.560 let's say we're young or young single people okay, And 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.720 I would approach Krinn and I would say, um. I 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.440 could approach Krean and said, like, my goodness, you look 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.720 beautiful today, right, and that has one that's one approach. 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.039 Or I could come up and go like your shoesn't 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.040 look kind of funny, And that was popularized for a 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:52.760 time as a way too, as a subversive way to 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.320 hit on someone. If you don't come in with a compliment, 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:58.480 you come in with a with a like you know 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.040 you should get you should change your hair. I don't 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.240 like your haircut doesn't look great on you. And then 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.640 you leverage that. Then that's leveraged. This is there's a 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:07.880 whole book about how when people get all interested in 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.360 kind of responding to that, there's a whole book about 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.000 how to do it. Like Steve, I'm not sure your 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:18.760 glasses matcher today, and it's in instead of the expected 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.480 thing would be like, holy cow, you look amazing. Would 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.760 you like to have dinner? You come in and you're like, man, 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.720 you should think about your updating your wardrobe. Right, and 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.480 you've set this whole You set and play this dynamic. Right. 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.240 The tension starts from every woman in the world just 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.600 just can't help, but live the rest of her life 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:41.720 to impress that man got it and try. It's very subversive, 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:46.040 it's very manipulated, manipulated. Let's get back to nagging. Oh well, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.200 I showed you my moose. I showed you my moose 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:54.360 antler and it's n e G. I showed you this 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.680 definition I would check the urban diction urban. It's like 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.360 a slang term point being. I walked in, like, uh, 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:04.240 you know, how do you have something impressive? You just 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.520 kind of walk in with it? He was so happy 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:12.239 about it. I'm sorry I didn't. I didn't mean to 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.920 pull your attention away. You noticed this this giant moose andler. Um, 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.040 I mean it's pretty huge. It's like as big as 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:25.680 like a baby's cradle. Yeah, I was. I was pointing 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:27.919 out to our guests, who who I'm about to introduce. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.560 I was pointing out that I have a plan in 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.679 which I'm going to turn it into a chair for 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.920 my kids. It's that big. Well, I brought it in 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:37.680 and Yohn, He's like, why are you showing me that? 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:45.680 I don't know, is it big? Just right now? What's interesting? 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.320 Are you going to make it into a chair? After 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.960 you saw the pictures of the moose andler chairs that 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:53.960 I showed you from Latvie. No, no, no, it is 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.160 a chair. No, it doesn't need to be. It already 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:01.520 is a chair. Look at it huge. But that the 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:06.800 idea from we're gonna do a whole might be We're 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.560 gonna do a whole episode about Yi's Latvian trip. We 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:14.160 just decided, so we'll we'll save that. Uh no, point 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.960 being the only reason I'm bringing this thing up is, 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.080 uh we there's been a long thing like how to 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.560 bring this this, this is this is applicable to a 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.840 very small subset of of our audience. Is how to 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.279 get stuff from Alaska down to the lower forty eight. 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:34.880 So this year we're up hunting and Clay got a 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.680 moose and he had the moose rack. I had my 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.160 moose shed. We all the moose meat, and we used 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:46.679 a service called Alaska Trophy Express. It's a great job, dude. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.200 We had like just frozen moose meat, the skull. I 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.200 had my shed antler. It's like it's cheaper than than 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.320 trying to get it all packaged and shipping it home 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.359 on a plane now with baggage for ease in lo 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:05.200 and behold, not too much long later there it all. 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.760 This was cheaper. I don't know the exact details on, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.440 but we ran the numbers and it was cheaper, especially 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.280 like you know, especially if you wind up with the people. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.560 Got a couple of moves and just showed up safe 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.320 and sound. Clay stuff got delivered down to He had 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.000 a drive. You know, he lives on the border but 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.320 Arkansas in Oklahoma, and he drove over to Oklahoma and 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.480 picked it up. My my antlers sitting right here in 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:32.760 the damn office the Laska Trophy Express with some attention 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.560 to it as well. Look look at the duct tape 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.640 to make sure that that that lower prong doesn't get 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.520 broken off. Right. They did a wonderful job. Um, and 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.200 I was holding off on standex I wanted to see 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.400 how it went. But they did a wonderful job. Uh. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.200 Our Steve guest Dan Flores, who we did an event 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.039 with at the bookstore last night, who's out promoting his 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:59.159 new book, Wild New World. I'm gonna have you explained 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.800 the book real quick. But first I want to point 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:06.240 out there's something you might not know. You when we 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.040 were first starting the show out, you were in one 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.560 not first starting the show off, but in the infancy 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.599 of the show. I can't remember what episode number it was. 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.400 The episode we did with you was our first episode 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:25.280 that ever like really got traction. Hm. That was shared 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.920 you know, that that had a life that lived, They 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.960 had a life at the time that kind of lived 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:38.360 beyond the normal subscriber base. Well, yeah, okay, it was 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.840 kind of one of our first, like real serious shows 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.120 that really just became a thing for us. This was 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.560 the one we did in Seattle, that's correct. It looks 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:52.960 like that might be episode three three. Was it that early? 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:55.320 It may have been that early, but it looks like 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:03.560 Dan's been on episode thirty three in we went We 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.720 went back to the well, didn't we m hm. Tell 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:12.560 folks about your new book. Damn um okay, I want 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.680 to set it up for you though. Yes, I read 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.760 the entirety of that book, probably within about seventy yards 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.160 of that moose antler without knowing it was there, Without 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.280 knowing that antler was there. Yeah, Well, finished the book 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.960 and then realized it was there, and realized it was 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.280 an antler sitting right beside you in the grass. It's 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.120 kind of tucked into some willows. But yeah, I read 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:34.640 the whole damn book, not knowing it was there, but 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.400 it was there the whole time. Well, I suppose that 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.280 says something about either your power of concentration or the 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:46.040 ability of the book to hold you. Uh. Well, first 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.120 of all, Steve, thanks for having me on again. It's 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.800 great to be back with you guys, and hang out 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:57.560 with with you as well. Um. This new book, while 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:01.280 New World is the title and the subtitle is an 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.920 epic story of animals and people in America, is an 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:10.600 attempt to try to, uh to write in a single 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:17.120 volume of a little short of four hundred pages, um, 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.400 the whole story or at least a whole story of 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:30.680 the North American human, wildlife, wild animal experience. And um 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:35.439 it's what is known in the trade as a big history. 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.760 It was kind of inspired when I began working on 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:42.760 it by you've all Harari Sapiens, which I know almost 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.280 all of us have read, which of course was a 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.680 big history book about the origin of humans. Um. But 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.400 I wanted to focus specifically on North America. It's where 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.040 I live, It's the country that the United States is 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.080 the place that I know best and where I know 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:03.120 the amal's best in the history best. But I wanted 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:07.120 uh to do justice to it. And so I've started 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.600 the story sixty six million years ago. This is a 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:16.959 book that in three pages goes from sixty six million 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:23.640 years ago down basically two events earlier in two so, 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.680 in other words, up to yesterday. Um. And I wanted 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.800 to start it that early because the only way to 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.959 really explain how North America acquired its beast sherry of animals, uh, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.320 is to look at what happened on the continent in 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:45.040 the wake of the great asteroid impact that wiped out 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.480 the dinosaurs and created the age of mammals. Of course, 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:55.640 we oh that asteroid which which is called, by the way, 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.760 the chick Salube impact or I didn't know, Yeah, I 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.280 never heard that. We're you point out that it's a 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.760 great word. It's a great word. It's a great word. 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:09.080 Uh uh and it's uh it's coming into more common 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.360 use and recognition. I think it's named after a little 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:16.280 Mayan town on the north coast of the Yucatan Peninsula, 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:22.840 which is where this uh, this asteroid hit um And, 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.880 as I said, the purpose of talking about it to 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:31.400 begin with and describing the the effect of of the 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:36.040 impact on on the continent and on Earth. It was 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.520 really to set up the age that follows, which is 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.120 called the paleo scene, which is when North America began 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.920 to acquire its animals, and that acquisition took place as 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:53.280 a result of evolution of species that emerged in the 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.640 wake of the demise of the of the dinosaurs. Uh, 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.960 and also as a result of the migration of animals 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.720 from other parts of the world, the most spectacular and 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.880 charismatic of which animals like mammoths and massdons, for example, 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:13.320 and bison came out of Asia. Hey. Uh, I want 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.760 to pause from it to ask a couple of questions 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:22.160 about that strike had there If that strike happened right now, Uh, 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:27.880 there's no way humans had survived or is that not true? Well, 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:33.079 it would be. So that strike wiped out seventy of 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:37.719 of life on Earth. It didn't take out everything. Um, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.120 it took out most terrestrial life, though. I mean we 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.000 ended up in terms of vertebrates in North America with 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:50.880 only a couple of percent of creatures surviving it. I 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:57.959 mean alligators survived it, crocodiles did, mostly reptiles and amphibians. 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.480 And what enable things to survived was that they tended 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:06.800 to be uh. Hidden back behind the mountain ranges on 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.840 the opposite side of where the impact took place, and 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.840 so it was possible for a few creatures that were 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.920 isolated to survive. And I suppose, uh that's probably what 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.440 would happen with people if we had an impact like 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.400 this one. I mean, this was a solar system wide impact. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.440 It was a gigantic asteroid more than seven miles uh 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:35.240 in diameter, and I was traveling at two so it 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.120 was the huge impact. We did it. We did this 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.360 conversation last night at the local bookstore. I was talking 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.000 about I never and the two things never occurred to 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.720 me until I read Dan's book, is that it wasn't 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:52.559 the first time that thing passed by. No, right, humans 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.040 would be like, oh there it is again. Yeah, I 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.240 got a little closer. And every thing is that hit 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:02.160 at a shallow angle? Yeah, like almost maximized for just 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.280 blasting stuff right straight down out of the sky. Yeah, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.960 it did not hit from straight down. It hit at 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.079 an angle, and it hit at an angle that uh 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.720 was really severe on North America because it was it 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.560 hit basically in the what would today be the Gulf 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.679 of Mexico. Uh So North America a lot of it 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.719 got fried. I mean, creatures just really got wiped out. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.040 Of course, the aftermath of it, it goes for several weeks, 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:35.640 producing tsunamis that are a mile tall, that bounce off 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:41.280 of land all over the globe. Uh and if still left, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:46.280 uh these big piled up remnants of mud and debris 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.280 five and six stories high on the ocean floor. I 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.959 mean those things still exist and U and also hold 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.480 do they have chunks of that thing? Yeah? Yeah, that 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.360 the asteroid itself basically was obliterated, But what we have 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:08.719 are the remnants of the shocked geology from where it 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.000 where it hit. But you can't there's no there's no 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.760 known piece of the thing. I'm not aware of there 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:21.239 being any known pieces of the thing still there, although uh, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.520 I may be wrong about that. Because we do know 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.200 that it was we do know what the substance of 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:31.000 the asteroid was. It was a chondrite, which is the 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.000 most one of the most common forms of meteorites today 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.400 that fly through the sky and and produce those beautiful 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:43.920 uh night sky uh comment like like appearances. But so 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.720 we know that it was a condrite, that may imply 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.480 that there was some some residue of it that that 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.480 enabled people to identify what it was. But I was 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.160 really intrigued when I was doing the research on this, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.680 and there's a lot of new work on it which 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.320 I ride to. I tried to incorporate in the book 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.880 by the fact that it was such a blast that 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:16.760 the ojecta uh from the impact exited Earth's gravity and 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.480 essentially spread across the entire Solar System. And there are 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.240 paleobiologists out there who argue that there is a good 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.520 chance with an impact on a planet like Earth that 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:34.320 was filled with life, that although it nearly destroyed life 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:39.800 on Earth, it very likely spread microbial life across the 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:44.320 Solar System two places like Mars to Jupiter's moons to 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.160 Saturn's moons. We're not gonna know any of this until 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.120 we definitively find out whether or not there is life 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.200 on places like Enceladus or Europa or uh some of 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.240 the moons of the outer Solar System. But this impact 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.160 was was large enough that it may have done that 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:01.800 very thing. It may have been a kind of a 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.640 genesis effect for life in the Solar System. Did you 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.160 research at all, um, when you're looking at the impact 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.680 of such a great thing that has such mass and speed, 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.600 could it or did it affect at all like the 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:22.680 Earth's rotation, it's orbit, its path, and if not, if 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.400 it was still super so small, like what would it take, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.440 did you like look into what would it take to 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.120 actually move the Earth out of its orbit or to 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.560 pause its rotation for a second? Yeah? I uh, well, 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.600 you know, as a as a writer who is not 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.560 you know, a scholar of this um, I was able 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.000 to use only the the articles that I found, and 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:51.760 I haven't found anyone yet who has actually investigated whether 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.000 or not this this nudge the Earth in its orbit 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:00.200 or slowed its rotation or anything like that. I mean, uh, 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.200 you know, we think that the impact that created the Moon, 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.840 I mean very early in in Earth's formation, there was 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.840 a gigantic impact that probably produced the moon, blew the 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.320 Moon off the Earth to create the Moon that orbits 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.440 around our planet today. That that one probably did affect 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.320 the orbit and probably the rotation, But that would have 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.800 been one many times larger than even this chick slube 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.840 impact or uh and the chicks alube impactor seems you know, 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.240 that seems plenty big enough that it can produce a 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.359 mass extinction. It's hard to imagine one that would be 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.000 even larger. But I mean, you know, you look at 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.120 the Moon through a telescope, or look at Mars sometimes 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.960 photographs of Mars. I mean, and it's fairly clear that 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:51.560 planets are constantly being bombarded, particularly by asteroids that formed 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.879 from the planet that wasn't created between the orbits of 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.240 Mars and Jupiter. That's the asteroid belt, and that was 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.760 a place where a planet was trying to form and 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.600 never quite did so. And so it's the spot that 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.720 shoots all these projectiles out through the through the Solar System, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.840 especially to the inner planets of the of the system. 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.320 So I mean, I include a photograph uh in the 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:22.040 book of UH this gigantic to me, gigantic meteor crater 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.880 in Arizona, because when I was right, yeah, no, there's 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.560 no looking at that one, and what happened? No, you 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.639 don't look at it and wonder I mean, when I 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.360 was writing about this, I thought, well, you know, hell, 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:35.399 I've got I mean, I'm in Santa Fe, New Mexico. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.440 I've got there's a meteor crater. I know, that's only 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.240 about a five hour drive from here. So I hopped 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.880 in my jeep and drove over there to look at 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.840 this thing. And uh, I mean it is worth. It's 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:51.840 very far off Interstate forty east of Flagstaff, just a 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.240 little south on a dirt road. I mean, it's well 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.000 worth going out and having a look at. But I 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.040 wanted to shoot a photograph I've had in order to 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.280 sort of give readers of the book some sense of, Oh, no, 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.080 it does a great job of it. I don't I 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.479 don't want to dwell too long on this whole, Like, 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.880 we gotta get from there. We gotta get from there yesterday. 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.280 But got to two things. Have you, um you saw 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.160 in the news that that NASA just was toying around 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.240 with how to nudge, nudging an asteroid to alter its 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.240 trajectory as like a sort of, you know, a potential 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.159 future defense mechanism from such thing happening in the future. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.520 And have you seen the movie Melancholia. I have not 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.680 seen Melancholia. No, it's dark one through most of the movie. 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.560 You can't everybody, it's just a movie about people going 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.120 about their lives, and you can't tell. It's just everything's off. 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.240 Everything's frantic and off, and it takes you long time 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.080 to realize that it's it's counting down to a strike 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:54.560 mm hmm. And everyone's known for a long time. Yeah, 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.200 and just everything's gonna end. And so it's a it's 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.560 a it's not society is an unraveling, like in a 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.800 way that you know, the people who traffic in zombie 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:10.439 movies would have it unroll. It's just unraveling socially in 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.080 strange ways, and an eventus you put together what the 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.600 issue is. This is what's looming over and you're you're 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:21.480 experiencing you're experiencing life, um toward its end. But it's 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.080 been known for quite some time. Well I think that's 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:29.119 that's precisely what would happen, because we do have the 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:34.040 ability now to uh figure out when an asteroid is 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:38.240 coming close enough to hit or to pass very very 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:42.600 near us. Um. So yeah, I mean NASA obviously takes 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.840 all of this seriously enough that it's developed and it's 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.159 working on a technology to try to deflect asteroids that 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.480 could possibly strike Earth. And you know, as you just said, 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.159 we had about ten days ago an example of what 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:01.879 appeared to be certainly a successful hit it and uh 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.199 working out the movements of that body through space. It 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.280 looks like it wasn't nudged out of the direction it 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:15.520 was it was going previously. Uh. In that moment as you, 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.199 as you explained, sets up where you've basically wiped the 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.440 slate clean, and it gives you a great starting point 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:28.880 to explain how things came to be here when humans 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.480 discovered the place. Yes, that's what I try to do 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:42.120 with this opening chapter. Um. And so after the chick 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:48.159 slue impact, I mean, I'm able to cover millions of 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:55.080 years uh in pretty rapid fashion by in effect describing 0:21:55.200 --> 0:22:00.840 the evolution of the North American species that come to 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:06.240 be kind of the icons of continental evolution. And they're 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:11.800 not quite the animals that most people assume, because two 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.360 of the most iconic creatures that emerge from North American 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.360 evolution we don't many of us don't even think of 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.000 as being American animals. And one of those is that 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:27.800 the camel, which evolved some forty five million years ago 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.919 in North America, eventually spread to other parts of the 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.880 world where it survived, but by about ten thousand years ago, 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.320 Camel's the most recent camel that we had in North 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.480 America was called Yesterday's camel. It was a single humped 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:47.159 camel that would look very familiar UH to those of 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.320 us who have the image of a camel in our heads, 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.679 and it became extinct about ten thousand years ago. And 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:56.600 the other animal, which of course UH has produced a 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:03.080 modern day dilemma is the whore, which is a distinctively 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:08.440 evolved North American UH group of animals that emerge fifty 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.600 six million years ago, fairly quickly after the the chicks 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:18.240 alop impact. And UH they also work here down to 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:22.600 about eight thousand years ago we think, when once again 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:25.639 they became extinct in North and South America and somehow 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.959 survived in the rest of the world. But in addition 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:33.920 to those, I mean we we evolved UH wolves and coyotes. 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:38.120 Those are the family of canads are North American creatures 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.080 from about five and a half million years ago. So 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:44.520 they've been around singing what I call in another book 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:49.080 of mine, the original national anthem in America for for 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:55.760 a very long time. UH. Jaguars are North American evolved cat. 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.879 We have a whole host of species that that we 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.719 know are distinctively American evolved animals, but many of the 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.840 ones that UM that Europeans from the last five hundred 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.320 years have thought of and and that wildlife departments still 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.120 kind of think of as the classic North American animals 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:22.440 are actually migrants from other parts of the world, from 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:26.240 places like Asia. So newbies too, Yeah, newbies. I mean, 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.240 as I was saying last night at the bookstore, I 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:31.600 mean one of the ones that we have now realized 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.560 here just in the last why you why I had 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:38.280 you talked about that? Yeah? Yeah, is the buffalo? Yeah? 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:42.280 So we were we were discussing. I was discussing one 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:44.439 place where I think where I was challenging Dan. I 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:48.040 think I said, you're out of your mind, is um? 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:53.360 I was putting to Dan, how uh, considering the debate 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:58.440 around wild horses, feral horses or wild depending on your sentiments, 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:04.080 the debate around areas where you have conflict between feral 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:07.920 horses and native you know what people would call native wildlife, 0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:10.800 like desert big horns and mule deer. Um, how could 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:15.800 you be a wild horse advocate considering that they're in 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:19.720 some ways detrimental to native wildlife? And and I was 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:24.600 teeing Dan up to explain his viewpoint, which which I 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:29.200 know from reading the book about you know, the need 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:32.199 to be precise and careful around throwing around like native 0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:36.120 wildlife when you look at it from a deep history perspective. Yeah, 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:39.720 that's exactly right. And so I mean the horses probably 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.080 our classic example of that very thing that you teat 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:46.000 up for me, because it's an animal that has been 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.000 around for fifty six million years in North America, with 0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:54.199 the single exception of the eight nine thousand years prior 0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:59.240 to fifteen hundred or so when Europeans reintroduced these animals 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:02.880 to nor America. So they were just gone for a 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:07.320 very small amount of time, which is one of the reasons. 0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:10.399