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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session one of the Feed for

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Speaker 1: Black Girl's podcasts. Oftentimes I hear people talking about someone

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Speaker 1: struggling with social anxiety, and it's clear that what they're

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Speaker 1: really talking about is that person being introverted. They're definitely

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Speaker 1: not the same thing, and I wanted to be sure

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Speaker 1: we spent some time chatting about the differences. This week.

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Speaker 1: For this conversation, I was joined by Jenea Sadler. Janeta

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Speaker 1: is a licensed clinical social worker in Raleigh, North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: She's the owner of Urban Healing Counseling, a group psychotherapy office,

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Speaker 1: and founder and co owner of Introverted Girlfriends, a safe

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Speaker 1: space for introverted women to promote and uplift each other.

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Speaker 1: Janette and I chatted about the differences between being introverted

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Speaker 1: and struggling with social anxiety, how you might know if

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Speaker 1: you're introverted, how social anxiety impacts people's lives, and what

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Speaker 1: kinds of treatments are used to help those who struggle

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Speaker 1: with social anxiety. If you hear something that resonates with

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Speaker 1: you while listening, please be sure to share it with

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Speaker 1: us on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session.

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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jania,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me today. Dr Joy

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Speaker 1: So I'm happy that you were able to join us

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Speaker 1: because I think what we're gonna get into today is

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Speaker 1: something a lot of people have been confused about. So

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Speaker 1: we're gonna start our conversation talking about the difference between

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Speaker 1: being introverted and struggling with social anxiety, because I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes people think that those are the same thing, and

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Speaker 1: of course they're not. So can you tell me a

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Speaker 1: little bit about what introversion is. Yes, yes, having social

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Speaker 1: anxiety does not mean that you're an introvert and social

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Speaker 1: anxiety and introversion is not the same thing. So let

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Speaker 1: me I'm pat introversion is a characteristic of someone's personality,

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Speaker 1: and social anxiety and more of a mental health condition.

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Speaker 1: Let me define what an introvert is is someone who

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Speaker 1: prefers calm, less stimulating environments. Introverts tend to be drained

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Speaker 1: after socializing and regain their energy by spending time alone.

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Speaker 1: A quote that I've read online and that I really

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Speaker 1: do love it's introversion is your way and social anxiety

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Speaker 1: can get in your way. Mmmmm, I like that quote.

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Speaker 1: I think that does help to explain what that is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's some common traits that people that are introvert have,

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Speaker 1: and then we can talk about some traits of social

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Speaker 1: anxiety too. And I just want to help other people

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Speaker 1: understand also that this personality traite kind of exists on

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Speaker 1: the spectrum, right. So you often hear people talk about

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Speaker 1: introverted versus extroverted. I mean it's important to note that

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Speaker 1: most of us are a little bit of both of them. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and some falls on a different realm of the continuum.

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Speaker 1: So I am on the extreme introvert continuum and some

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Speaker 1: maybe what we call now am Inverton, So that's like

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Speaker 1: in the middle m M got you. Okay, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that introverts don't like people or don't like social situations.

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Speaker 1: Many introverts actually enjoy spending time around others. They just

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Speaker 1: prefer smaller crowds and a more intimate setting so kind

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Speaker 1: of less straining. Mm hmmm. Yeah, And I do think

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Speaker 1: that that's an important distinction. I'm glad you shared that

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Speaker 1: because I think there is often so many there are

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Speaker 1: so many misconceptions about what it means to be introverted,

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Speaker 1: like does that mean you never want to talk to people?

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Speaker 1: Does that mean you know, you don't want to be

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Speaker 1: invited out right? When really it is more about where

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Speaker 1: your energy comes from, and that after spending time and

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Speaker 1: like a large social situation, somebody who is more introverted

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Speaker 1: will probably sometimes to kind of unwind with themselves. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I sometimes feel exhausted at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: you know, seeing a lot of clients, interact on a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, and I just need a quiet time

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Speaker 1: to reflect, to reach treat because like spend so much

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Speaker 1: energy and social situations. Yeah, and I don't think especially

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Speaker 1: people who maybe are more extroverted. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: people often think about the amount of emotional energy and

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Speaker 1: sometimes takes to kind of be in a group to

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Speaker 1: kind of manage everybody, you know, everybody's stuff and everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on. And so, you know, people who are

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Speaker 1: more introverted do sometimes need at times to kind of

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Speaker 1: just unwine and like take a deep breath and take

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Speaker 1: a step back after kind of interacting with people. Just

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Speaker 1: give me a moment or two, you know, And sometimes

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Speaker 1: too much simulation can just make you feel drained. So

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Speaker 1: are there some kind of tell tale ways for somebody

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Speaker 1: to tell kind of where they fall on the spectrum. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: as an introvert, sometimes we tend to enjoy more quiet time,

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Speaker 1: so we spend time reading a good book or retreating

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Speaker 1: to a quiet space and utilizing that time to recharge.

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Speaker 1: So that may be a sign that you are introvert,

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Speaker 1: that you just need downtime. Another sign is that you

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Speaker 1: have a small group of friends, you know, rather than

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Speaker 1: a large extended network. You really do enjoy socializing, but

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Speaker 1: it's just on a smaller scale, more intimate setting. Another

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Speaker 1: telltale sign sometimes is if you do not enjoy small talk,

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Speaker 1: you know, you tend to just get right into the

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Speaker 1: deep discussions of things. That's a good one. I think

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Speaker 1: that most people would not necessarily pay attention to that idea.

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Speaker 1: I have heard less of people talk about the fact

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Speaker 1: that they just don't enjoy small talk. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: about like, what about that makes it difficult for introvert? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think it's the fluff, the fluff of it, maybe

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Speaker 1: not knowing what to say. I'm always getting around, but

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Speaker 1: I cannot talk about the weather for an hour, you know,

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Speaker 1: so you're gonna get deeper into the conversation. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that it may just be like uncomfortable, you know,

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Speaker 1: or maybe not knowing how we're to start. I find

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Speaker 1: that many introverts, you know, described themselves sometimes that's socially awkward.

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Speaker 1: Not that they have to be socially awkward, but they

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Speaker 1: may feel that way. Sometimes they just don't know how

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Speaker 1: to fit it in, you know, that small talk. Mm hmmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think if we think about it in terms

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Speaker 1: of like energy, like we talked about, if I already

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Speaker 1: feel like my energy is going to be low for

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Speaker 1: this social situation, I probably want to conserve it and

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Speaker 1: not use it on small dog. Yeah. Absolutely, great point.

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy. Yeah, and so some of those highlights that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, I think maybe where some of the confusion

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Speaker 1: comes from in terms of comparing introversion to social anxiety,

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Speaker 1: because you mentioned things like maybe they do feel a

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Speaker 1: little socially awkward or that kind of stuff, and so

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Speaker 1: I think that is sometimes where people think, oh, this

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Speaker 1: means social anxiety, when of course it doesn't. It doesn't,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't at all. And so can you share them

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Speaker 1: more about the distinction between introversion and social anxiety. So

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Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about like what introversion looks like,

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Speaker 1: but can you share more about the social anxiety piece

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Speaker 1: and how you might be able to tell the difference. Oh. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it's normal to feel nervous and certain situations. So certain

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Speaker 1: social situations, for example, I'm nervous right now being on

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Speaker 1: your podcast. But in social anxiety disorder, social interactions may

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Speaker 1: cause the intense fear. They may fear that they're gonna

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Speaker 1: embarrass themselves or fear being criticized or judge. So I

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Speaker 1: think that that's the distinction, is that is a fear

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Speaker 1: component when introversion is more of who you are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can talk about a little bit of some of

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Speaker 1: the symptoms of social anxiety, which is like very different

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Speaker 1: than personality traits. You know, so one may fear social situations.

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Speaker 1: They may worry about again embarrassing themselves or humiliating themselves.

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Speaker 1: They have an intense fear of phobia of talking to strangers.

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Speaker 1: Other fears may include like not wanting to use public

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Speaker 1: rushrooms and not wanting to eat in front of people,

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Speaker 1: make Tello calls, make an eye contact. So those are

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Speaker 1: some of the cognitive symptoms of anxiety, and some of

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Speaker 1: the physical symptoms can be trembling, sweating, that's heartbeat. So

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Speaker 1: those always that we can define you know exactly, you

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Speaker 1: know what it is. And so someone with social anxiety

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Speaker 1: may start getting anxious before a social interaction, you know

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Speaker 1: that anticipate tory anxiety, and others may spend a lot

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Speaker 1: of time ruminating after the event. They may spend days, months,

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Speaker 1: or even doctor joining some cases years focusing on what

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Speaker 1: went wrong and what mistakes they may have made. It

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Speaker 1: is really hard for them to let go because they

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Speaker 1: feel judged or they feel as if someone will reject them.

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Speaker 1: Another key component of social anxiety is avoidance. You know,

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Speaker 1: we avoid the things that do not feel good to us.

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Speaker 1: And if you have social anxiety, those are social situations

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Speaker 1: and in the long term, if we avoid things, it

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Speaker 1: in turns increase our fear, right. I mean, we often

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Speaker 1: talk about the fact that, you know, the more that

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Speaker 1: you don't approach the thing that you're afraid of, you

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Speaker 1: never actually learned the lesson that it's not as bad

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Speaker 1: as it seems in your head. Yeah. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: can take that example of public speaking you know today,

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Speaker 1: if you always avoid it, your fear will never diminish.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes you have to push past your comfort zone

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Speaker 1: and do it um and not hold yourself back. At

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Speaker 1: least that's what I told myself today, you know. And

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Speaker 1: it's even better when you're able to do that in

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Speaker 1: a safe place like a therapy office. M And you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Jania. You know, like most of us are a

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Speaker 1: little anxious probably about like public speaking or going to

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Speaker 1: a party where there's nobody there. We're gonna know, like

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Speaker 1: most people probably feel a little nervous about that. But

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Speaker 1: it sounds like the hallmark where you really want to

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Speaker 1: make sure like you're paying attention to you know, regular

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Speaker 1: everyday kind of shyness or anxiety versus like a social

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Speaker 1: anxiety disorder. It sounds like it's the intensity of the

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Speaker 1: feelings that you're having, yes, yes, the intensity, and also

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Speaker 1: whether or not it is impacting your functioning. So that

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Speaker 1: is key functional impairment. So it's how does it interfere

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Speaker 1: with your life? So if I was to pull your audience,

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Speaker 1: dock the joy and have them right down things that

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Speaker 1: matter most of them in life, I suspect that they

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Speaker 1: will come up with four to five commonalities. In the end,

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Speaker 1: some things on the list would be our work, you know,

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Speaker 1: our career, romance, friendships, and relationships with our family. And

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Speaker 1: you see, with social anxiety, it may affect these areas

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Speaker 1: that are important to us. So let's look at work. Work.

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Speaker 1: It may keep you from finding a job if you're anxious,

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Speaker 1: if you're too shots to even go on an interview

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Speaker 1: because you're fearful. That affects your money, you know. So

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Speaker 1: people are fearful in the phase of going to the

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Speaker 1: interview or even when they have the job. They are

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Speaker 1: frequently calling out to avoid social situations. Maybe on meeting day,

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Speaker 1: you know, every Friday, at one o'clock, you're calling out

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Speaker 1: because you know that's the time that you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: around other people. And it also can stop you from

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Speaker 1: advancing in your career, you know, going to those trainings

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Speaker 1: and conferences. Most jobs for a lot on some type

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Speaker 1: of social capability. Let's examine the romance department. Social anxiety

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Speaker 1: can keep you from dating, you know, finding your significant

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Speaker 1: other if you have the desire to get married and

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Speaker 1: you're fearful of dating. Um, so I see that a

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Speaker 1: lot as well. The other thing is that it may

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Speaker 1: affect your friendships and relationships with your family, so you know,

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Speaker 1: hanging out, going to that concept, you are so fearful

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Speaker 1: of going to social events. So you're so you're so

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Speaker 1: fearful about going to social events that you likely frequently

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Speaker 1: turned down opportunities and invitations because you just get so

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Speaker 1: anxious about going to the event. Yeah. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: that's how it can affect those different domains in your life,

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Speaker 1: so you know, making friends, having a relationship with your family, romance,

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Speaker 1: also in work, in your career. Yeah. I think that

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty neat exercise today. I'm glad you shared

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Speaker 1: that because I don't know that I've ever thought about

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Speaker 1: just how it impacts like those different things that are

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Speaker 1: often so important to us, right, like and so if

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Speaker 1: you're struggling with something like social anxiety, it does cut

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Speaker 1: across these domains that typically are very important in our lives.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, Dr Joy, And I find that it is

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Speaker 1: often misdiagnosed and under diagnosos as well. M In what

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Speaker 1: ways can you say more about that? Yeah? Absolutely. Oftentimes

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Speaker 1: I get clients who come into the office and they

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Speaker 1: feel anxious in social situations or it's a new situation,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, you don't have social anxiety. You are human.

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Speaker 1: You know, we all tend to get anxious in social situations.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of normalize it. And then on the

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Speaker 1: other realm, I have people that may come in with

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Speaker 1: symptoms of depression or had issues with alcohol use. So

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Speaker 1: when we peel back the layers, we can understand um

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Speaker 1: that it's maybe something deeper. So let's examine how this

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Speaker 1: can happen. So, you know, you want friends, you want

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Speaker 1: to engage with others, you want to go out, but

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Speaker 1: social interactions may scare you. That may lead you to avoiding,

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Speaker 1: and avoidance may lead to isolation, and isolation may lead

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Speaker 1: to sadness. It can have a domino effect. And again,

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Speaker 1: as we peel back the layers, we discover that the

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Speaker 1: root cause can be social anxiety and not necessarily the sadness.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that I see common that comes into the

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Speaker 1: room is over indulging in alcohol. You know, the liquid

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Speaker 1: courage is needed to function and social situations, So one

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Speaker 1: glass of wine can turn into a whole bottle and

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Speaker 1: a shot on the side, you know, just so that

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Speaker 1: you can relax and you know, go to that networking

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Speaker 1: of them per se. I'm glad you share that because

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Speaker 1: I know, I mean, of course, we know that anxiety

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Speaker 1: and depression often occurred together, but I don't think we

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Speaker 1: always hear enough about how being anxious can actually lead

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Speaker 1: to the depressive symptoms because of this isolation piece. Oh absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I hear that very often about isolation, loneliness, some sadness,

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Speaker 1: and so I like to peel back the layers to

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Speaker 1: see what it's really going on. Yeah, and I can

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Speaker 1: see how it would be easily missed if you really

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Speaker 1: just focused on the sadness, right, it didn't focus on

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Speaker 1: the fact that what led to some of that is

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Speaker 1: the isolation they did because they felt anxious, Oh absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And I don't get many people coming into office saying

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Speaker 1: that they have social anxiety. So having social anxiety, you

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Speaker 1: are often fearful of judgment, so that may stop you

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Speaker 1: from making that telephone call to go see a therapist,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it is essentially to them like an evaluation,

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Speaker 1: and so we don't get it in the beginning. I

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Speaker 1: guess I want to say that the diagnosis, we get

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Speaker 1: it when something happens, and so when they have those

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Speaker 1: intense feelings of sadness, that is when they may come

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Speaker 1: into the room. And something else that you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: I think is something that I've heard much more often lately,

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Speaker 1: is the anxiety related to like making phone calls. Oh absolutely, Um,

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Speaker 1: that is the case. And it can impact you know,

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Speaker 1: calling a therapist you know. Um. Yeah, And I had

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Speaker 1: to really sit with myself with this one to modify

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Speaker 1: some of the ways that I do things and getting

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Speaker 1: clients in and so they may do online scheduling rather

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Speaker 1: than making a telephone call because they are so fearful

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Speaker 1: down the numbers, you know. Um. And we live in

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Speaker 1: a culture where texting and social media may allow us

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Speaker 1: not to talk verbally with one another as often as

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Speaker 1: we once did. M yeah, So in some ways it

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Speaker 1: does kind of make it easier for you to actually avoid,

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Speaker 1: Like we already talked about the thing that is making

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Speaker 1: you anxious. Yeah, definitely, Yeah, but I think that is

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Speaker 1: important to think about, right, like, just in terms of

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Speaker 1: how we even make our services more accessible, right Like,

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Speaker 1: if they're already struggling with anxiety, yes, of course we

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Speaker 1: don't want you to continue to avoid, but in the

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Speaker 1: interests of actually getting them in for help, we may

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Speaker 1: want to think about different ways that we can make

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Speaker 1: scheduling easier as opposed to like just talking on the phone. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I've had clients that comment in on that, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: so if we can, yeah, that would be helpful. And

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Speaker 1: this can impete like also go into the medical doctor

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Speaker 1: as well, you know, calling about your bills, you know,

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Speaker 1: calling people in what they perceived to be authority, you know,

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Speaker 1: handling some things that you have to handle. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just a lot that it may impact, right, right,

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Speaker 1: And again, I think you know, we often hear social

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Speaker 1: anxiety kind of thrown around. I think so you're saying

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Speaker 1: that you hear that people actually miss it a lot,

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Speaker 1: but I think we kind of hear us just very colloquially,

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Speaker 1: right like, oh, I'm socially anxious, kind of thing, and

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Speaker 1: of course they wouldn't necessarily always meet the criteria for that,

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Speaker 1: but I think, you know, paying attention to the multiple

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Speaker 1: ways that this really does impair functioning is important for

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Speaker 1: us to all keep in mind. Yes, And so that

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Speaker 1: brings me to like how it is diagnosed, and we

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Speaker 1: talked about the misdiagnosed and under diagnose, and so sometimes

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Speaker 1: I have climent to help fill out of social anxiety scale,

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Speaker 1: you know, ask some questions, a lot of questions about

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Speaker 1: what their reactions would be in social situations, and then

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Speaker 1: of course the clinical assessment helps us come with that diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: So something else that I wanted to go back in

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Speaker 1: your conversation, you mentioned how this impacts work. And I

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Speaker 1: know last year there was a lot of talk about

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Speaker 1: Summer Walker, and she isn't the only one. I think

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Speaker 1: she may just be the latest one that has kind

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Speaker 1: of been openly sharing about her struggles with social anxiety.

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Speaker 1: And it just seemed like there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: conversation around her struggles with social anxiety that did not

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Speaker 1: seem the same as we saw with like Sia, so

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Speaker 1: the other artists who has also been open about struggling

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Speaker 1: with social anxiety, and like would frequently style her hair

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Speaker 1: so that she wasn't actually making eye contact, or would

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Speaker 1: perform with her back to the crowd, And it just

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Speaker 1: seems like there were some very strong differences to me

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Speaker 1: in the way that we talked about summer struggling versus CIA. Yes, definitely,

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Speaker 1: I think it is can be a cultural thing. Else

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Speaker 1: sometimes it is not understood, and it's that cultural component.

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Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of misconceptions in our

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Speaker 1: community about what social anxiety is. People often don't realize,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's happening, so they may have the misconception

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Speaker 1: that that person is stuck up or rude or bougie,

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Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, I think that it can impact,

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Speaker 1: you know, work and what took a lot of amount

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Speaker 1: of courage for her to come to terms with that.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yeah. And I think the other thing we

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Speaker 1: have to think about is that, you know, much of

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Speaker 1: the conversation was around, well, why would she choose to

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Speaker 1: be in a career like this, right if she struggles

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Speaker 1: with social anxiety. But the truth is that no matter

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Speaker 1: what career you pick, if you struggle with social anxiety,

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Speaker 1: you will struggle, right, you know. So I think we

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Speaker 1: have to be careful and kind of making that kind

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Speaker 1: of an assumption that, oh, because you're struggling this way,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is not the career for you. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit of genia about like

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Speaker 1: true eatment. So what does treatment actually look like for

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Speaker 1: somebody struggling with social anxiety? Treatment can look like a

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Speaker 1: couple of different things. And so we can do you know,

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Speaker 1: CBT therapy and that helps you become aware of your

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Speaker 1: negative thinking patterns. Another thing that we do in the

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Speaker 1: room sometimes teach relaxation techniques we discussed and practice breathing.

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Speaker 1: U'se got an imagery, bringing meditation or mindfulness. I may

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Speaker 1: even suggest yoga or other body based interventions, especially if

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Speaker 1: the anxiety is manifesting like somatically or physically. I would

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Speaker 1: suggest that we may also teach social skills. So one

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Speaker 1: reason that someone may be anxious is that they may

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Speaker 1: be socially awkward or not confident in their social skills.

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Speaker 1: And um, if that is the case, we would assess

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Speaker 1: it and we'll teach social skills like effective communication, conflict resolution, empathy,

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Speaker 1: active listening. I like to think about it is if

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Speaker 1: you don't use it, you lose it. And sometimes people

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Speaker 1: with social anxiety don't interact socially because of their avoidance,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean we live in a culture that

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Speaker 1: you don't really have to interact with other people. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you do find that job that speaks to your social

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Speaker 1: anxiety and your behind a computer all day, you know.

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Speaker 1: Then we can get our groceries delivered, we can get

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Speaker 1: our food delivered. So we're not engaging, you know, on

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Speaker 1: a one on one basis. So that is why sometimes

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Speaker 1: those social skills may lack. Another one about go to

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Speaker 1: therapies Dr Joy is exposure therapy, and the goal of

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Speaker 1: exposure therapy is to reduce anxiety, reduce the avoidance of

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Speaker 1: the dreaded situation and so um, if they're fearful of

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Speaker 1: let's say speaking, you know, maybe in the office, we'll

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Speaker 1: start with, you know, exercise of just thinking about you know,

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Speaker 1: getting on stage, thinking about going to that conference and

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Speaker 1: being in of those people. You know, so we're just

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Speaker 1: thinking about it, then we may push it a little further,

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Speaker 1: you know. So they're thinking about it, they're preparing for

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Speaker 1: their experience and the feelings that they may feel like

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Speaker 1: when they're on the stage. And then the hopes is

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Speaker 1: is that you know, eventually they may even try it,

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Speaker 1: so it takes time. Um, we suggest that you do

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Speaker 1: these type of therapy with a professional. And is there

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Speaker 1: a reason why you might choose like one modality over

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Speaker 1: the other, Like are there some things that you would

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Speaker 1: want to like rule out before you started, like exposure

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Speaker 1: therapy with someone? Oh? Yes, Um, definitely, we want to

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Speaker 1: rule out any trauma. And so that brings me to

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Speaker 1: like the why you know, why do I have it?

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Speaker 1: We'll come back to that, but yes, that's a great point. Um.

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Speaker 1: So if they have a trauma history, we may rule

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Speaker 1: out exposure therapy because we don't want to read traumatize,

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Speaker 1: or it may take some time to get there. We

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Speaker 1: may start off with some CBD techniques and start off

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Speaker 1: with relaxation so we can and age and exposure and

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Speaker 1: they can be more calmer. Um. So we really kind

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Speaker 1: of meet the client where they are. So let's jump

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Speaker 1: into the way because I feel like we probably should

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Speaker 1: have covered that before. I missed that. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 1: and I know that this could be different for everybody, right,

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Speaker 1: Like there's no one reason why anybody develops any kind

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Speaker 1: of illness, right, but what are some of the reasons

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Speaker 1: behind other things that might lead to somebody struggling with

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Speaker 1: social anxiety disorder. Great question, and I get this question

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Speaker 1: a lot because I tend to treat introverts and remember

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Speaker 1: that having social anxiety does not equate to introversion and

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Speaker 1: vice versa. You know, I do have extroverts that have

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Speaker 1: social anxiety too, but you know, we tend to be

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Speaker 1: introspective when we want to know why. My extroverts kind

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Speaker 1: of it is like Janeta, just fix it. They don't

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Speaker 1: want to know the why. They're like, just fix it.

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Speaker 1: But there's no one thing that caused social anxiety. So

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Speaker 1: it can be genetics. You know, if your mama had it,

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Speaker 1: if your grandmama had it, you may have it. It

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Speaker 1: also may be the way that you were rared. So

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Speaker 1: I may have a client that had an anxious mother

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Speaker 1: who had a lot of fears, and because of that reason,

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Speaker 1: she didn't trust people. So you know, the client did

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Speaker 1: not go out often. It kept her secluded and she

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Speaker 1: was not exposed to adequate social situations. So those are

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Speaker 1: some reasons on why. You know, we have a trauma

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Speaker 1: informed practice and so we do trauma assessments because social

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Speaker 1: anxiety can be linked to a history of abuse, bullying,

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00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: or teasing. I often find that shy kids are also

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00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: more likely to become socially anxious adults, and so that's

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00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: why I like to address this issue in children. Sometimes

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00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: it's more than just shyness, you know, and it also

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00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: it's prevalent in people who have overbearing and controlling parents.

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00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: Can you say more about why that is? Yeah, because

436
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: sometimes they are not allowed I guess I want to say,

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00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: to be free and know a lot of their behaviors

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00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: may be restricted and they're not engaging with people. Like

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00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: I mentioned before. You know, if you have a mom

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00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: that has anxiety, maybe she's not letting you go out

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00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: to you know, parties or have sleepovers, or she doesn't

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00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: have people over because she's fearful of people, or you know,

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00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: or something traumatic may have happened to her, so that

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00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: perpetuates maybe um apparent being overbearing and causing a client

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00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: or the person to not develop those skills needed to

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00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: be okay in social situations. Very good points. So going

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00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: back to some of the skills building stuff that you

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00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: were talking about, Yeah, yeah, So what are some of

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00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: your favorite resources in there for people who maybe want

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00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: to learn more about social anxiety or introversion. Yes, yes,

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00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: and so as you mentioned, it's been in the news

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00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: a lot lately. Um you see it in Facebook groups.

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00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: Actually you post a question on World's Introverts Day, and yes,

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00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: we have a day, and it was a lot of

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00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: feedback about you know, what you want other people to

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00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: know about introverts. So I think through like social media,

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00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,239
Speaker 1: you can get the level of awareness. So that's resources.

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00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: Susan Kane has a book called Quiet. I also recommend

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00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: her ted talk on the Powers of Introverts, so it

460
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: talks more about introverts and social anxiety, and one of

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00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: my favorite quotes from her is that there is a

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00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: zero correlation between being the best talker and having the

463
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: best ideas. Sometimes I use workbooks with clients in the office,

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00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: so the Anxiety and Phobio workbook talks a lot about

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00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: social anxiety. Another resource is a website, the Quiet Revolution.

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00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: There's a lot of blogs and self help tips on

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00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: being introvert. And another book is Self Compassion by Dr

468
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: Kristin Neff, because treating yourself more gently and saw their

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00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: as if you would treat a friend may help you

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00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: reduce some of the issues that you have with social anxiety.

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00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: Because people can be so hard on themselves. Yeah, and

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00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up us because in King's book.

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00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if other therapists have suggested it maybe

474
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: has come up at a time or two, but it

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00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: definitely felt very revolutionary I think when she published that book,

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00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: because I think before then people had not been forced

477
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: to think about how the world really is not set

478
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: up for introverts to sometimes be successful, Like the world

479
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: is just very noisy, it just requires a lot of energy.

480
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: So I think her book coming out really was revolutionary. Yes,

481
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: And if you don't have time to read that book,

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00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: check out that Ted talk, you know. And it's really

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00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: the way that we socialize is where sometimes in an

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00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: extroverted world, you know. So she really brought light to

485
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: that and really brought lights to some of the advantages

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00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: of being an introvert. And so, you know, some things

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00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: that she highlighted. And in that book, you know that independent,

488
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, we're private, we're more inclined to the autonomousts

489
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: and self sufficient, you know, we're creatives, were deep thinkers.

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00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: So it's just an excellent book and I definitely would

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00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: encourage people to read that. And where can people find

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00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: out more information about you June or your practice, as

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00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: well as any social media handles you'd like to share. Yes,

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00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: my practice is Urban Healing Counseling located in Raleigh, North Carolina.

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00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: You can find us at www dot Urban Healing Counseling

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00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: dot com and that is the same for us Facebook

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00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: and Instagram. You can find me Jane and Statler lcs

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00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: W online and that's my Instagram as well as my website.

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00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: I am also an Introvert Powerhouse coach at Introvert Powerhouse

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00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: University with Introverted Girlfriends in which I'm the founder and

501
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: co owner Perfect And of course all of that will

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00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: be included in the show notes for anybody who wants

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00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: to look up with those incredible resources. Well, thank you

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00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: so much for sharing with us a a day. I

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00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Well, thank you so much for having me,

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00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: Dr Joy. I'm so glad Ena was able to share

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00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: her expertise with us today. To find out more information

508
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 1: about her and her practice and the resources she shared,

509
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: check out the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls

510
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: dot com slash Session one. Please remember to share this

511
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: episode with two people in your circle, and don't forget

512
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: to share your takeaways with us either on Twitter or

513
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: in your I G stories using the hashtag tv G

514
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: in session. If you're searching for a therapist in your area,

515
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy

516
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you

517
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: want to continue digging into this topic and meet some

518
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: other sisters in your area, come on over and join

519
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a

520
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just

521
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for

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00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Thank you

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00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I

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00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: look forward to continue in this conversation with you all

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00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care.