1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: I've never told your protection. I heart rateio. So, Samantha, 3 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: are you into cult like entertainment? I am so. Actually, 4 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if you knew this. As I studied 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: social work at the University of Georgia, I kind of 6 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: had a secondary because I was stupid me. I don't 7 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: know why I didn't keep going with it. I was 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: like three or four classes away from actually having it 9 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: as another major, but religion was going to be another major, 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: and my focus was actually on cults Eastern religions. But 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: that not that they have anything the same or not. 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, because I love the whole idea of Calton, 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: what it like, it's background, kind of the beginnings of 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: religion and how it started as cult like and then 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: moving on. So yeah, I love different facts. Of course, 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: that's the tragedies. I don't love that, But the fascination 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: of why people follow, who they follow, and what they believe. Yeah, 18 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: I like we talked about in past episodes. I'm not 19 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: really big into true crime and I haven't seen a 20 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: lot of the documentaries or other I haven't listened to 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts that have been dead about these cults, 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: but I do. It is one of my favorite kind 23 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: of genres of horror that I find really upsetting and disturbing. 24 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: One of my favorite video game series is Silent Hill, 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: which has a big cult element. And I love Midsummer 26 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: and the Other Lamb, but they do freak me out. 27 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,919 Speaker 1: They really unsettle me. And I was in a cult 28 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: based movie. Okay, that was not going in my head. 29 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: You were about to say something else. It's like, wait, 30 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: what it was? By the way, I have had friends 31 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: who were part of cults, who grew up in cults 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: or communes as they would call it, but they came 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: with a lot of trauma. Yeah, I had. I might 34 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: have told the story before on this show. As far 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: as I know, I don't have any close friends or 36 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: family that have been involved in cults. But I had 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: a group of friends who, uh, I wanted to see 38 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: the audit process of scientology. Like they didn't want to 39 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: join obviously, well I don't know obviously, but they didn't 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: want to join, and they made this They were like, 41 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: we're not going to get separated, we just want to 42 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: like check it out, and they all got separated. I 43 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: was like that that's the beginning of like several sitcom 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: episodes that I've seen, it's not fun, but they all 45 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: get separated the first thing, they're like, oh no, and 46 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: one of them eventually Bison and the rest of them 47 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: are like trying to get them out. So many plots, 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: so many Well, who do you think of when you 49 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: think of cult leaders? Like what is the stereotypical image 50 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: that kept in mind? Like David Koresh is a big 51 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: name in the US as someone that we know who 52 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: was a big leader in cults. I think about actually, uh, 53 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: scientology as part of that as well, So I think 54 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily a leader. But Leah Remoney, who has 55 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: a show with My Heart, I believe talking about her 56 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: time as a part of a scientologist group. I think 57 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: about her sometimes just because she's so loud about it 58 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: and there's not too many people who are willing to 59 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: be loud about it. And I know one of the 60 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: big things about cults and communes like that are specific 61 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: to secrecy and blackmail, and there's so many stories. Like 62 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: I said, I've had friends who are parts of them 63 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: who had been like they did this to me. They 64 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: told me they had to give I had to give 65 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: all this information to them and how they kind of 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: just like in a like a domestic violence situation, they 67 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: stripped them of their personality, they stripped them of their identity. 68 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think about her too for some reason 69 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: that she possed in my head. Obviously, again, not a leader. 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: She's out and she's talking about some of the issues 71 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: within her experiences. But I find it interesting enough because 72 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: it's one of the bigger, more pot peel are ones 73 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: thanks to celebrities, right her. So yeah, those are those 74 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: are the ones that kind of pop into my head. 75 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: What about you? Yeah, I mean, she's definitely a vocal 76 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: person when it comes to Colton. This was researching this episode, 77 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: I was shocked at how many times a celebrity would 78 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: come up and I was like, wow, okay, but I 79 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: do like, if I just come up with the stereotypical 80 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: cult leader image, it's usually a white dude with brown hair, 81 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: darker hair, all bearded. Yeah, usually kind of Jesus Like yeah, honestly. Yeah. 82 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: One of the most fascinating studies that I did, or 83 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: a book that I read and we researched and I 84 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: can't even remember his name, was a book called The 85 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: God's Chinese son. Essentially, it was this man from China 86 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: who truly believed he was Jesus's brother and started his 87 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: own cult within China. But a little not like, I 88 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: don't hear too many where they use Christian based idea 89 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: within like China and all that. I've not heard too many. 90 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: Maybe it's because I haven't looked it up. They're gonna 91 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: be a few we're going to talk about in here, 92 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: but yeah, and I know, like this, there's a fascination 93 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: of cult cults in general, and like SNL recently did 94 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: that that like music video where the women were talking 95 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: about how they love murder shows and then at the 96 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: end Nick Jonas comes in I think it was him, 97 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: and he was like, what about the cult shows? Yeah, 98 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: so we are talking about women cult leaders, specifically this one, 99 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: and we're planning on returning to discuss women in cults 100 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: at large, which we will touch on a little bit. 101 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, we wanted to talk about some of the 102 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: ladies at the at the forefront of these cults, and 103 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: it turns out there's there's more than we thought. So 104 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: this is a two parter. Yeah, So essentially, after the 105 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: news broke out about the leader of Love has one, 106 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: which we're going to talk about her a little bit. 107 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: We came to a point where like, wait, how many 108 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: female cult leaders are there? And what? Wow? Why there's 109 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: so many just questions, so definitely wanted to look again. 110 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: I didn't realize our so many. Yes, And before we 111 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: get into this trigger warning, we are going to be 112 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: discussing suicide, sexual abuse, violence, death, murder, general abuse, just 113 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: some not so savory things because we're talking about cults. 114 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: But we're not going to go to in depth into 115 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: any of that. And reminder always remember that, yes, these 116 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: are real people still dealing with the fallout in many 117 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: cases of what we're talking about, and like in our 118 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: Serial Killers episode, the history can be a bit exaggerated 119 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: and hard to pin down, but we did our best, right, Yeah, 120 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: So all right, let's do some basics here before we 121 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: get into some of the women leaders. After the Nanson 122 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: family shocked the public with the murders, cults became a 123 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: big source of anxiety in the United States, and anxiety 124 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: that lasted from the late nineteen sixties until the nineteen nineties, 125 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: spurred on by media coverage. But what exactly is a cult? Well, 126 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: it turns out that is a very hard definition to 127 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: been down. Nobody wants to be too precise, it seems 128 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: from a pen Today article, cult is a term that 129 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: doesn't refer to a religion at all, but is applied 130 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: to a social movement. People have intuitive feelings about how 131 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: the word cult should be used, even when an organization 132 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: or movement meets the criteria of a new religion. Take 133 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: for example, Scientilogy and Mormonism. Both were new religious movements 134 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: that have evolved into a general understanding of definition of 135 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: a religion. However, according to Pew Research, non Mormons in 136 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: the US are more likely to label Mormonism as a cult. 137 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: Scientology and Mormonism have outlived their charismatic leaders and side 138 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: note from me, the charismatic leader bit is really key 139 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: in this whole thing. The article continues. They have openly 140 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: published their beliefs as scripture. Both religions seek truth by 141 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: offering its followers a roadmap for their place in the universe, 142 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: along with a moral code. Those who accept of beliefs 143 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: and rituals are members of the religion, but many outside 144 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: consider the movement and its followers to be a cult. 145 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: And then it goes on to quote linguistics professor Robin Clark. 146 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: The word cult originally designates a practice of religious federation 147 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: and the religious system based around such feneration, for example, 148 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: the cults of Our Lady of God a Loupe. However, 149 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: the word was co opted in the first half of 150 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: the twentieth century by sociology and has come to denote 151 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: a social group with socially deviant beliefs and practices, like 152 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: a UFO cult. And there there's been a lot of 153 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: hypocrisy and suspicion when it comes to Eastern religions and 154 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: anything affiliated with them in the US, especially when they 155 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: become successful. Basically, anything that's not Christianity couldn't get caught 156 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: up in this whole cult conversation. And yeah, that whole idea. 157 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: There have been a lot of arguments about a new 158 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: religion sort of if it's doesn't fit into this Christianity 159 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: framework being called a cult. And cults can exist in 160 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: multiple numbers of ways, religious, commercial, familial, just to name 161 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: a few. And yeah, but typically that charismatic leader is 162 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: really really key. And some of the things we're going 163 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: to talk about, like maybe was a cult at one 164 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: time and then evolved out of it, or just depending 165 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: on who the leader is right, which actually has been 166 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: the source of conversation around Trumpism right. And again, this 167 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: is why we wanted to look at the female leaders 168 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: because it is so centered around uh, the leaders these 169 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: different groups. Is fascinating to see people following women in general. 170 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: So to have the charisma, Yeah, it's typically understated, which 171 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: is probably why I didn't know as many of these 172 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: names as I do of male leaders. But that's a 173 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: whole different things. So let's let's talk about some numbers. So, 174 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: according to Tennessee State University, there are thousands of cults 175 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: in America, and some harmless, some dangerous. Not surprising. They 176 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: go on to define cult as a group or movement 177 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: held together by a share commitment to a charismatic leader 178 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: or ideology. It has a belief system that has the 179 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: answers to all of life's questions and offers a special 180 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: solution to be gained only by following the leader's rules. 181 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: It requires a high level of commitment from at least 182 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: some of the members. So again, the definition can get 183 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: quite murky and cause a lot of debate. For instance, 184 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: there's a huge conversation right now around ntil Swan, a 185 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: new age spiritual self proclaimed help guru who purports to 186 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: the powers that allow her to not only look inside 187 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: people's bodies and see what's going on, but us also 188 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: allow her to recover repressed memories within people and deal 189 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: with childhood trauma. She was one of the names I 190 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: didn't see students pay two thousand dollars or more to 191 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: work with her. The debate around her sparked after a 192 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: student of hers took their life. A Swan who has 193 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: a huge social media presence has encouraged followers and students 194 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: to imagine their suicides in detail. She says quote we're 195 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: all going to get suicidal for a moment, and of 196 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: her YouTube videos she calls suicide a relief, a reset button. 197 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: Her channel has half a million subscribers, and at the 198 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: same time she creates a space for conversations around suicidal 199 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: thoughts and child sexual abuse. She has plenty of seemingly 200 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: harmless content on finding joy and stuff like that, and 201 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: videos that have wracked up millions of views, but she 202 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: does this without any real accountability or responsibility when people 203 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: who listen to her mainni professional help. Some members of 204 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: the quote til tribe claim that the only reason they 205 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: are alive today is because of what Till taught them. Yes, 206 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: and if you want to learn more about Swan, you 207 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: can check out the six part Gizmoto podcast series called 208 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: The Gateway. Pretty much everybody we talk about in here 209 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: and every cult we talked about has either a podcast, 210 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: a Netflix documentary, or both, So if you want to 211 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: learn more again, the mediums are out there for you. 212 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: And this is a case where we're really having to 213 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: as a society update or thoughts on cults to include 214 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: modern circumstances and technology tell uses s e O or 215 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: search words basically to target vulnerable people, so if someone 216 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: searches I want to kill myself, they might get served 217 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: up her videos. Some argue this is also an instance 218 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: of cults run by women not being taken seriously as 219 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: compared to cults led by men, that cults from by 220 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: women aren't labeled as cults when perhaps they should be. 221 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: The word cult itself is often gendered when it comes 222 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: to things like cult of skincare or cult of domesticity. 223 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: Multi marketing companies are sometimes put in the same category 224 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: as cults, many of them run by women. Obviously, that's 225 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: a whole different topic, and not all m l m 226 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: s would qualify as cults, but just just for instance, 227 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: and I think there's another conversation we could have about 228 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: things like Q and on and how they target women 229 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: through self help and yoga groups with these ideas of 230 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: protecting children often and just all of that sort of 231 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: being dismissed as all that's a lady thing. We don't 232 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: need to pay serious attention to this, all right. I 233 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: know we definitely talked a little bit about that in 234 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: our past episode on Q and On and Women, when 235 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: we talked about the specific groups such as the Red 236 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: Pill group and all of that which does target women 237 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: in that group, as well as giving them mentors, which 238 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: is familiar, right, and then who their leaders are and 239 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: who they see as leaders, And typically they're all moms 240 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: of some sort or caretakers of some sort. So it's 241 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: definitely interesting to see that. So cult leaders themselves are 242 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: generally charismatic, compelling, and absolutely unshakable, like they will argue 243 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: with you until the cows come home. I couldn't think 244 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: of a better saying. They're often compared to domestic abusers 245 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: and follow a lot of the same patterns, including starting 246 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: with something called love bombing, basically showering you with attention 247 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,239 Speaker 1: not always positive and in the early stages a seduction 248 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: period where the person recruiting you makes you feel special, 249 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: which is very familiar as we know when it comes 250 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: to grooming. But in a cult there are promises of family, 251 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: of meaning, of enlightenment, empowerment, money being a part of 252 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: something more and the bigger and the role you'll play 253 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: in that. And then once you've got in, isolation is 254 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: next exerting control. Right from University of Tennessee again, most 255 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: cult leaders have narcissistic personality disorder. Symptoms include an excessive 256 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: need for admiration, disregard for others feelings and inability to 257 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: handle any criticism, and a sense of entitlement. So when 258 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: it comes to who these cults target, while vulnerable people 259 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: or people in a transitional period in life, like if 260 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: you've just lost a job or gone through a really 261 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: big breakup, are often targeted, no one is immune from JN. T. Tam, 262 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: who wrote Cartwheels in a Sorry, a memoir of growing 263 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: up in a cult, quote, the aptitude and capacity to 264 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: exploit human beings is universal, and with the right ambitious 265 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: and charismatic leader, any group easily could morph into a 266 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: cult and dr Yanya Lalitch, a cult leader researcher out 267 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: of California State University, says, coal leaders will always get 268 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: their people to what I call reframe their lives. They 269 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: reinterpret their lives so they see everything from before the 270 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: cult as messed up, and only by staying with the 271 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: cult leader will they get straightened out. From Dr Alexandria Stein, 272 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: author of Terror, Love and Brainwashing, Attachment and Cults until 273 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: Tealitarian Systems, all of it is about arousing fear in 274 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: the victim. Once you're fearful and they're the only person 275 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: you've got, you will go towards the only resource you have, 276 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: which is the person who is frightening you. If I'm frightened, 277 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: I go and see my friend or call my mom. 278 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: It's instinctive. But when the only person left is the 279 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: frightening person, you are trapped. You're trapped emotionally clinging to 280 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: them hoping they alleviate the pain, but that never happens, 281 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: so you end up in a feedback loop of fear. 282 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: From there, you cognitively disassociate and become unable to think 283 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: about the situation you're in. That's why it's so hard 284 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: to understand from the outside people say why doesn't she 285 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: just leave about someone in a relationship, and why didn't 286 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: they just leave about someone in a cult? They're trapped 287 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: there by a trump bond and unable to think clearly 288 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: for themselves. So toxic masculinity fits perfectly with these cult 289 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: leaders commodification and control of female bodies, a need to 290 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: display power at all times, and because of this, heterosexual 291 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: men often use their position as cult leaders to meet 292 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: their predatory sexual desires, and we've seen a lot of 293 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: accounts of that. There are accounts of women and cults 294 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: forced to get abortions having sex with the male cult leader. Violence, 295 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: emotional and psychological abuse, and coercions are frequently employed against 296 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: women and cults, and cults sometimes separate children from their parents, 297 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: allowing for sexual abuse, and in several instances there are 298 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: women propping up the male cult leader and the cult 299 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: of self, helping with recruitment and the general running of 300 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: the cult. Jim jones former lover Caroline Layton was right 301 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: behind them in terms of influencing the Jones Down massacre. 302 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: Or there's Naomi Jessup, the favorite wife of worn Jeff, 303 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: who stood by and offered counseling while he was undergoing 304 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: trial and citizen for child abuse and molestation, and he 305 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: ended up so time for aggravated sexual assault for underaged girls. However, 306 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: it is important to point out that that these women 307 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: themselves were indoctrinated. And again when we talked about the 308 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: Manson family, we talked about the women talking about not 309 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: knowing what they were walking into, thinking they were just 310 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: coming into a circle of love essentially again because they 311 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: came into this young and trying, just searching for something. 312 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: What differentiates them from other members is that they were 313 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: able to earn the cult leaders trust and thus power 314 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: for themselves, and often this is a form of protection 315 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: or self preservation in the face of trauma and abuse. 316 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 1: Holding up position of trust can show them from rules 317 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: and punishment other members face, perhaps again forming a trauma 318 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: bond with the cult leader, and again this is very 319 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: reminiscent of being in a vultile relationship. They frequently head 320 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: up recruitment, projecting a maternal nature and caring to bring 321 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: in new members, and many of them often young women 322 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: used for the cult leaders sexual gratification. And of course, 323 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: if you look at who they are and sometimes what 324 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: they're called, they're often just called mother or mother so 325 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: and so so. It's interesting to see again the naming, 326 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: mass weddings, arranged marriages, grooming, forced abortions, and reproductive control 327 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: and all forms of sexual abuse are so frequently utilized 328 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: in cults right. Another example of a cult recently garnering 329 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: mainstream attention is Nexium, the so called self help organization 330 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: that's now called a sex cult. Once members started getting arrested. 331 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: Nextium dictated that members cutoff ties with friends and family, 332 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: replacing those relationships within the group, while controlling pretty much 333 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: their entire lives. While the leaders slash founder is a 334 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: man Keith Ranier or Vanguard as he went by, a 335 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: man that members believed was the smartest man alive and 336 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: therefore the planet's only hope for survival. It was largely 337 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: run by women, and it was co founded by a 338 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: woman named Nancy Salzman a k a. The Prefect, who 339 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: was a registered nurse. Women were the ones doing the 340 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 1: recruitment presenting the public image. Actor Alison mac was one 341 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: of these women. She's become one of the faces you 342 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: probably think of first. What Nextium offered was largely run 343 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: by women and geared towards women, sold as self help 344 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: sessions promising happiness and independence. Intense twelve hour sessions ran 345 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: at seven thousand, five hundred dollars. In the words of 346 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: a former member on the podcast Escaping Nexium about her 347 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: experience being a d O s R. Dominus obsequious sorori 348 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: um in Latin or master of the slave women. This 349 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: was a women's group advertised to her as a badass 350 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,239 Speaker 1: bitch boot camp. Others said it was painted as a 351 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: feminist group um desiring to help women deal with intimacy issues. 352 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: The former member went on to describe how she was 353 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: pressured by her master, a woman she counted as a 354 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: friend and trusted, to get a brand when she was inducted, 355 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: which she only found out later included Ranier's initials. Getting 356 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: the brand required the woman to be naked, bound and 357 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: taped like filmed before they received it. They were supposed 358 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: to say, please brand me. It would be an honor 359 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: and honor I want to wear for the rest of 360 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: my life. I believe that was so they could prove 361 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: that they consented. The ex member described this whole process 362 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: is similar to the frog in the slowly Boiling pot, 363 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: incremental in stages, cutting her off from support systems, that 364 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: may have helped her. She said, you know, if you 365 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: had told me I'd be getting a brand at the beginning, 366 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: I would have said no way, But it just happened 367 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: so slowly. Members of d o S were also required 368 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: to give up something as collateral, like a video of 369 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: them masturbating or confession of being the victim of sexual abuse, 370 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: off and false. Ranier once said he believed women were 371 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: easier to control, and he would turn women against each other, 372 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: especially if there was any resistance or defiance. So if 373 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: you had a kind of higher up position and he 374 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: did something he didn't like, he'd be like, well, I'll 375 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: just go to her. She doesn't complain. He was extremely 376 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: controlling about their weights to so Matt was arrested and 377 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: federally indicted on charges like sex trafficking. She appealed, pleading 378 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: guilty to two charges of racketeering, and when Yer was 379 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: sentenced a hundred and twenty years in prison in twenty 380 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: nineteen for charges including exploiting the child in possession of 381 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: child pornography. Also something you should know. Several women were 382 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: behind taking Reinier down. Yeah, I know that there's a 383 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: whole documentary about that happening. Yeah, this just remind me, 384 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: and I was telling Samantha before we did this, we 385 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: could do a whole episode on just the level of 386 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: misogyny involved in this one alone, because a lot of 387 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: people were like, how did kind of that same idea 388 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: I had did so many you know, seemingly very smart 389 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: women to get into this kind of feminist camp, but 390 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: it was just full of this toxic, like misotynistic ideas 391 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: and it's really it's really fascinating. So I think we 392 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 1: could come back and revisit this one. But it did 393 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: remind me of things like wicker Man, where you like 394 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: send the women out to bring people back into your 395 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: I don't know that one one. I don't know. Well, 396 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: you know about the bees, though not the bees, I 397 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: don't think so Samantha's giving me an empty like, well, 398 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite. It's one of the most 399 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: well known. Nicolas Cage means, I need to go back 400 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: and look it up now. I feel like I'm missing 401 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: out somehow, But yeah, I mean one of the big 402 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: things that was successful, again we can get into this 403 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: is the fact that he did use women to recruit 404 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: and that's been a trick from the beginning. We know this, 405 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of what's happening within trafficking as well. We 406 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: know a lot of that happens to be typically people 407 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: who are in that life and being told this is great. 408 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: Let me tell you how it'll change your life and 409 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: it's not as bad as you think. And they grow 410 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: to trust because just like in many schemes, you find 411 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: for so many people who trust women when it comes 412 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: to that and thinking that they're they're safe and they 413 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: can defend themselves, kind of that whole level. So it's 414 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: a whole different conversation in itself, and the tactics on recruiting, 415 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: which again has been used before in many ways. Again, 416 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: this doesn't mean women can't be cult leaders. And yeah, 417 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: we'll get into that after a quick break from a 418 00:22:51,920 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. 419 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: Just a brief disclaimer, people including the women, were going 420 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: to talk about, do you still argue about whether some 421 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: if not all, of these constitute as cults. There are 422 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: particular issues orund racism, sexism, and yes, any like anti 423 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: anything but Christianity sentiment. But here are some examples that 424 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: commonly come up when you're talking about women cult leaders. 425 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: Let's start with one that might be the most well known, 426 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: thanks to the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country. Sheila Burnsteel 427 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: Arm and Nod. Sheila most well known is that's probably 428 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,719 Speaker 1: very specific to when you were born, actually, but for me, 429 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: this is one that's up there. I was gonna say, 430 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: this is one that I watched for sure. I I 431 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: remember when it came out. I didn't watch it, but 432 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: I just remember hearing people talk about it, and I 433 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: was like, wait, this is a documentary. This really happens. Yeah, 434 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: she is still just chilling. Yep, she is. So she 435 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: she was that technically the leader. As the personal assistant 436 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: to the Indian Guru of rajnish Peram Bagwan Shri raj Niche, 437 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: she exerted a lot of control. She convinced him to 438 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: purchase the plot of land that would become rajnis Peram, 439 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: which she later purchased herself. She was in charge of 440 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: external communications, big events the Colts Foundation. She controlled the 441 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: diets and clothing of members. Many suggests that she really 442 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: ran pretty much everything. The raj Niche movement was a 443 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: combination of Western philosophy, Eastern mysticism, and free love. At 444 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: its peak, there were thousands of members worldwide, many of 445 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: them upper class white people looking for enlightenment, and at 446 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: one point the cult was worth about sixty five million dollars. 447 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: When they were kicked out of India in nineteen eighty, 448 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: they moved the movement to Wascou County and Oregon and 449 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: built this many city rash Niche Peram. Their neighbors viewed 450 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: the as a dangerous sex cult. The tensions between the 451 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: locals and raj Niche param escalated. There was arson, immigration, fraud, espionage, 452 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: and arms race, all kinds of things. If you haven't 453 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: watched it, you should because just the interviews with the 454 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: townspeople is entertaining. Eventually, Sheila went to jail for thirty 455 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: nine months for planning and carrying out biological terrorism. No 456 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: one was killed, but yeah, over seven hundred people were 457 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: poisoned and attempt to impact local election. There's a whole 458 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: thing about politics and hairs. Pretty interesting. Sheila had fled 459 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: to Europe, but was arrested in Germany nineteen six and 460 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: extradited to the U S where she faced federal and 461 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: state charges including wire tapping, attempted poisoning. Separate from this 462 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: one bio terror event, immigration violations, and attempted murder, and 463 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: when people who lived at Rajni Param watched the Netflix documentary, 464 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: many of them expressed complete shock at how much power 465 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: Sheila Will did. Sheila herself had seemed surprised at the 466 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: parts of the documentary she watched, including when she scaped 467 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: raj Nisperam and Rogenie said of her up quote, she 468 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: did not prove to be a woman. She proved to 469 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: be a perfect bitch. But she said, in response to 470 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: questions about it, how can one's opinion change because someone 471 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: said something negative about me. I love the man. I 472 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: still love him, and for her it was and is 473 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: always about him more. She does a really good job 474 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: of making it look that way. I will say she 475 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: is a an interesting and charismatic speaker when you watch, 476 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: because she did a lot of like media for the group, 477 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: so it was interesting for sure. Yes, and she has 478 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: a lot of really really good quotes. Um, here's one. 479 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: What does love have to do with sex? We were 480 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: taught to associate sex with love to compensate. You feel 481 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: sexual but are afraid to declare it. You say I 482 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: love you. In my life it has always been separate. 483 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: I can tell someone I want to go to bed 484 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: with them. I have no qualms about it and enjoy 485 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: being in bed. And if I love somebody, I love somebody. 486 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: They are two separate events and I love this. When 487 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: compared to Kelly and Conway, she said, no, I don't 488 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: allow that comparison. That much pride I have she has. 489 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: And then she also said, in spite of the guillotine, 490 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: they haven't killed me yet. They haven't killed my spirit. 491 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: No matter where I go, I will always wear a crown. 492 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of being under guillotine. She was talking about, like, 493 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: if you're in power, there's always the threat of the guillotine, 494 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: and this was what she said. Yeah, I like it 495 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: and yeah. After the documentary, a lot of people admitted 496 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: to loving Sheila, and some even argued about whether or 497 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: not she was a feminist or a feminist figure. Her 498 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: catch phrase was tough titties again. Yes, these days Sheila 499 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,479 Speaker 1: runs are home in Switzerland and remains unapologetic, saying that 500 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: calling it at cult is insulting. Uh, and yeah, not 501 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: to again, these are real people and they were real ramifications. 502 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: But she certainly was charismatic, and I think she was 503 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: even on the cover of some big magazine naked like 504 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: she she was influential and she controlled. She had a 505 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: lot of power within this. Some of the past numbers 506 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: when talking about her is obviously they were traumatized, but 507 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: also some of them were like she did this, like 508 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: she just kind of that level of like wow, the 509 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: control or just the background player that she was and 510 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: surprised many people. So it was really interesting to watch. 511 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: Uh So, next we want to talk about talk John 512 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: Han Moon, who was married to the founder of the 513 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: Korean New Age Unification Church, Son Young Moon, found in 514 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifty four. The Unification Church was at peak 515 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: popularity in the nineteen seventies, perhaps reaching fifty thousand members 516 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: around the world despite boasting millions. Nineteen seventy one is 517 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: also the same year the Moon's moved the church to 518 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: the US. The church advertised a feeling of belonging, peace 519 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: and love, tolerance, enlightenment, spirituality, and happiness. In nineteen sixty, 520 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,239 Speaker 1: Son married the then seventeen year old Hawk, and they 521 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: would go on to have several children together. Son claimed 522 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: himself to be God's Messiah, meaning that his words were 523 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: the end all be all overrating all other beliefs, thoughts, desires, feelings, 524 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: et cetera. Because of this, the church and Son himself 525 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: wielded massive control over the members lives. Some reports suggests 526 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: that moonies may work up to twenty two hours a 527 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: day while fast into a tone for their sins and yeah, 528 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: moonies was a sort of derogatory term given to the 529 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: followers of this Unification Church. Guidelines around sexual behavior were 530 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: very strict, particularly regarding premarital sex and homosexuality. And these 531 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: mass weddings and we're talking stadium sized events with up 532 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: to two thousand five couples getting married and spectators this 533 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: event called the Blessing, were a part of enforcing these guidelines. Together. 534 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: Son in Hawk were known as True Father and True Mother, 535 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: the true parents free from the original sin. They later 536 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: crowned themselves Emperor and Impress of the Universe. If and 537 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: if I remembering correctly, twelve US senators were at that 538 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: event at the time. Um Hawk is also called Mother 539 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: of Peace, the Perfect Woman, and the Bride of Christ. Right. So, 540 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: here's a description of one of the mass weddings by 541 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: Carlile Murphy and Linda Willard that appeared in the Washington 542 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: Post article The Reverend Moon and his wife Hawk, John 543 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: Han Moon showing a flare reminiscent of old Broadway musicals, 544 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: held hands and descended a red carpet staircase flaked by 545 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: white road attendance. After a symbolic sprinkling of water, they 546 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: led couples and saying I do to four pledges recited 547 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: during the noontime blessing ceremony, among them a promise to 548 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: quote inherit the tradition of the Unification Church and pass 549 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: its proud tradition down to future generations of Unification families 550 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: and to all mankind. When the wedding and blessing portion 551 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: of the program ended, Sun Young Moon and Huc John 552 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: Han Moons sat reekly on two thrones, and we're given 553 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: two large boutcats and a trophy. Neil Salonan, a church 554 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: official who served as Master of ceremonies, as those assembled 555 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: to think the moons as is the Asian custom, by 556 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: bowing to the couple, and most stadium attendees tilted at 557 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: the waist wow. The church made an unverified claim that 558 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: three point six million people participated in this worldwide. They 559 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: were big on really inflating those numbers. Most of the 560 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: people married in the ceremony had only met a few 561 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: weeks prior, matched by church officials. The church has no 562 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: official capacity to marry people, but many consider themselves spiritually married. 563 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: Uh and Whitney Houston was supposed to sing at this 564 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: but canceled due to illness, as the story goes, at 565 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: the last minute. So some of the crowd could be 566 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: explained that way. Maybe they were there to see Whitney Houston. 567 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: Dion Warwick was there to introduce acts them and yes, 568 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: while the church does claim to have fifty thousand members 569 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: in the U s alone, the numbers believed to be 570 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: closer to a few thousand at most. A devout anti communist, 571 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: Son once believed the US to be the world's beacon, 572 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: but thanks at least in part to financial wills, in 573 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, he flipped, calling America quote Satan's harvest. 574 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: He had also gone to jail in the US for 575 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: eighteen months for charges of tax fraud and conspiracy. Man, 576 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: it's a hard flow right there. Han founded the Women's 577 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: Federation of World Peace in nineteen and an organization that 578 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: promotes women working harder to achieve peace in their communities. 579 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: She spoke at the w f w P event with 580 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: former President George H. W. F. Bush said, w I 581 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: feel like that's the way you do it, in saying 582 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: that her husband had to save the US from quote 583 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: the destruction of the family and moral decay. Around the 584 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: same time, her husband elevated her right to be on 585 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: par with her, so there's a promotion. In two thousand five, 586 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: Dr Sun Moon and Dr Hawk Moon founded the Universal 587 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: Peace Foundation, which is considered a n g O in 588 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: general consultative status with the u n at PF event 589 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: Hawk Moons and the goals of the organizations were to 590 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: set up Korean War memorials in the countries that don't 591 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: have them, and to put together a registry of anyone 592 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: who made any sacrifices for Korea. By my son died 593 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve. Yeah, and perhaps clearly we're not 594 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: really getting too much in depth into the spiritual religious 595 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: beliefs of these organizations, but this church is considered an 596 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: example of extreme indoctrinated religion. The followers, yes, are often 597 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: dismissed as moonies. Hans stepped into the leadership position of 598 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: the church after Moon died. Through her status, she has 599 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: become a billionaire. Here's a quote from a former member 600 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: Nasu Koang fromok in the Shadow of the Moons My 601 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: life in Reverend Sun Young Moons Family quote. Much has 602 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: been written about the coercion and breakwashing that takes place 603 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: in the Unification Church. What I experienced was conditioning. You 604 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: are isolated among like minded people. You are bombarded with 605 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: messages elevating obedience above critical thinking. Your belief system is 606 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: reinforced at every turn. You become invested in those beliefs 607 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: the longer you're associated with the church. After ten years, 608 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: after twenty years, who would want to admit even to 609 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: herself that her beliefs were built on sand? And I 610 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: guess they owned the Washington Times, this Unification Church or 611 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: they created it. Anyway, Son build up businesses business empire 612 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: in South Korea and Japan, and then funneled his attention 613 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: into nonprofits, but only after he'd stacked their leadership with 614 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: friends of his. He was very right leaning and had 615 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: a strong relationship with the Republican Party in the United States. 616 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: When Parents Day was signed into law in n the US, 617 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: some in the church took it as a sign of 618 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: how closely their relationship was with the US government. Mhm 619 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: SO pastor Young Jin Sean Moon. One of their sons 620 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: is a huge mega and gun guy and started his 621 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: own church in eighteen. He believes he's a rightful leader 622 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: of the Unification Church, but he lost to his mother 623 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: and his words. His father crowned him three times as 624 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: the era parent, but Hawk was under the impression she 625 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: was meant to take over. And here's a quote from 626 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: test O and Over at Vice about a festival his 627 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: church held in twenty nineteen. Quote. The festival held a 628 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: safe space play area for kids with signs reading gun 629 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: free zone and trigger warning. Parents laughed and that pictures 630 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 1: as their kids strangled pink unicorns and pummeled rag dolls. 631 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: The MC of the event was Joe Gibson, the leader 632 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: of the far right Patriot Prayer, who is currently facing 633 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: felony charges for his involvement in the violent street brawl 634 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: with Antifa in Portland, Oregon. Um there was even a 635 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: siminar about the cetification of American men. I do remember 636 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: that one. Wow. Yeah, that's so special, so Sean said 637 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: about his mom. She was taking the position of what 638 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: was described in the Bible as the harlot of Babylon. Position. 639 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I see her as a prostitute. Okay, 640 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: I love, I love so nice quick correction of that 641 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: doesn't just saying just say it. I'm just saying. We 642 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: do have some more examples for your listeners, but first 643 00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: we have more work for work from response here and 644 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor, and we're back with Sylvia Marz. 645 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: In the early Sylvia Mars was the high priestess of 646 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: a cult trying to get in the good word with 647 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: a saint not recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, Santamuerte 648 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: are Holy Death. This saint is often depicted as a 649 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: skeletal grim reaper, sometimes described as the patron saint of 650 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: serial killers, and Mara's devoutly believed. There's not too much 651 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: out there on her, but what we do know is 652 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: she killed a friend of hers with an ax in 653 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. One of the followers, ten year old 654 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: family members, was the next. Most of the members of 655 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: this cult were family members of Sylvia's. And then the 656 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: members would slit open the veins of victims while they 657 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: were still alive and drain their blood into containers, and 658 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: they would spread the blood on an altar to Santamuerte, 659 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: believing it would bring them good fortune in Maris was 660 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison. It's estimated two million people 661 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: follow Santamuerte in Mexico, where the following of Sante Morte 662 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: is believed to have originated. Santa Marte was added to 663 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: Mexico's list of registered religions in two thousand three. So 664 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of back and forth about the cult 665 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: status of the Santa Marte following, and this is very 666 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,479 Speaker 1: specific to this woman and her family for the most 667 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 1: part in general. So earlier in one and Elizabeth Young, 668 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: or mother Anna of Cobb County, Georgia, so in our 669 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: nick of the Woods, was sentenced to thirty years in 670 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: prison in Florida. Young ren occult in the eighties when 671 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: was charged for second degree murder for a two year 672 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: old after her mother gave him to the cult. He 673 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: was left in the closet without food and water, where 674 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: he eventually died. Young pled guilty to the fatal seizures 675 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 1: of a two year old girl caused by withholding her medication. 676 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: So sad Young owned four acres of land in Florida 677 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: for the House of the Prayer of the People, a 678 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: so called religious boarding school uh in a place nicknamed 679 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: the Town that time Forgot members wore robes and head coverings, 680 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: and the belief system was a mixture of Old Testament 681 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: ideologies and collectivism. Young was controlling and obviously abusive um 682 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:21,919 Speaker 1: and when a seven year old boy stole a piece 683 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: of candy, she deemed he should be punished with thirty 684 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: three lashes in reference to Jesus's age when he died 685 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: on the cross in the n The police investigated the 686 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: group after Young publicly bathed a twelve year old girl 687 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: and the chemicals causing serious birds and she spent several 688 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: months in the severe burn unit. Anna's daughter Joy was 689 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: one of the key people to bring her down, testifying 690 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: against her after an argument about how Joy was caring 691 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: for our children led to Joy seeking justice for the 692 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 1: children who died under her mother's care. And we thought 693 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: we would wrap up this part one with the inspiration 694 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: for this episode. A news item that Samantha saw and 695 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,280 Speaker 1: brought to my attention recently. I'm man in Colorado alerted 696 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: the police that he found a mummified body at quote 697 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: some type of shrine. The body was in case in 698 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: a sleeping bag and Christmas lights, glitter makeup, circled eye sockets, 699 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: that appeared to be empty. The man who brought this 700 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: to the attention of the police was a follower of 701 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: Love Has One, a religious group often described as a cult, 702 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: led by Amy Carlson or Leah and Amy Carlson or 703 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: the quote Mother God. Her body was believed to be 704 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: transported from California to Colorado. Seven members of Love Has 705 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: One were charged with abuse of a corpse and child abuse. 706 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: Recent reports suggests no foul play, that she was in 707 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: poor health and drink a lot. Many followers believed that 708 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: she had quote ascended. She herself claims that when she died, 709 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: she would ascend to the fifth dimension. Carlson founded Love 710 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 1: Has One around two thousand six, leaving behind her children 711 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: to do so. She called it a quote spiritual organization, 712 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: and it was heavily informed by New Age movements and ideas. 713 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,280 Speaker 1: The group offered items like medicinal supplements and Callo Real 714 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: silver alongside sessions promising spiritual ascension. At the head of 715 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 1: it all was Carlson, who assured she could talk with angels, 716 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: that she could cure cancer, she could usher loved ones 717 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: to other dimensions, or have a great awakening for lost 718 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: level ones. Before the official website went down. Carlson asserted 719 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: on it that her past lives included Marilyn Monroe and 720 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, and that she was on her quote five 721 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: thirty four reincarnation in my quest to recover my beloved planet. 722 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: The cult was very active online, and that's one of 723 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: the ways that they targeted new followers. She lived with 724 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: local followers in one big house, but estimates put membership 725 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,240 Speaker 1: at thousands when counting online members. Carlson engaged in several 726 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: of the abusive methods of control we've mentioned, and allegedly 727 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: only let members sleep four hours a day. There's also 728 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: not too much out there about this one, but some 729 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: some said that the group made headlines recently when fourteen followers, 730 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: including Carlson, refused to adhere to mask guidelines in Hawaii 731 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: and he created the culture with Carlson claiming she was 732 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: the Hawaiian Goddess of fire, and police escorted them off 733 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,760 Speaker 1: the island. As of the recording, officials are still waiting 734 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: for the toxicology report on her and to positively I 735 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: d the body, so this is all ongoing right now. 736 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: Her family claims that towards the end, she was being 737 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: brainwashed by her own cult and other members of it, right, 738 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: and I believe Vice has a documentary that they did 739 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: of the cult a while back, so it's interesting to 740 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: see if you wanted to watch any of that. Yeah, Like, 741 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: like we said, almost all of these have something like 742 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: a documentary or a podcast out there. And not to 743 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: hammer this point home, but I think it's worth hammering 744 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: home that people still argue about whether or not all 745 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: of these constitutis cults and what why we label things 746 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: as cults? And so I know we were using cult 747 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of interchangeably throughout, but just very very aware and 748 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: acknowledge that that is it's an ongoing conversation. Well, in 749 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 1: the meantime, this was only part one, and we have 750 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: some more for you in part two, so keep an 751 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: eye out for that. In the meantime, if you would 752 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can. You can email us 753 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com, 754 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,240 Speaker 1: or you can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 755 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at stuff I've 756 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks it's always to our super producer Christina, 757 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've 758 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,760 Speaker 1: Never Told His production of I Heart Radio More podcast 759 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, 760 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.