WEBVTT - Trump 2.0: “Beyond What I Even Expected” with Adam Kinzinger

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<v Speaker 1>How frightening is this to you?

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty frightening? And look, I'm going to steal this from

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<v Speaker 2>Charlie Sykes, but I think it's well said. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>I am not optimistic, but I am hopeful. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>how I feel, which is I look back at history

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<v Speaker 2>and I know every time we faced like dark moments,

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<v Speaker 2>we've come through them. I mean, one took a civil war,

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<v Speaker 2>but we've come through those moments and actually come out stronger.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi. Everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump has been president now for one hundred days,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you listen to the polls, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>Americans are very unhappy with his performance so far. One

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<v Speaker 1>of those Americans is Adam Kinsinger, former congressman and current

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<v Speaker 1>critic of the Trump administration. Adam, thanks so much for

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<v Speaker 1>joining us. It's great to see you, and we have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot to talk about.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I good to be with you. Yeah, we really did.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that Donald Trump has been in office for one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred days. How would you describe the first few months

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<v Speaker 1>of the Trump administration?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, so I'll give you two different things, my

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<v Speaker 2>opinion versus just like objectively, how is he done. My opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>this is way worse than anything I imagined. I was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to warn the Democrats basically between Trump's victory and

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<v Speaker 2>inauguration day, like you guys need to get your ducks

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<v Speaker 2>in a row because this thing could go fast. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>One of my biggest frustrations, and I think this is why, frankly,

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<v Speaker 2>so many Democrats are upset, is because you know, Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump gets inaugurated. Doge, this fake agency Doge gets created

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<v Speaker 2>out of thin air, and then for about two weeks

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<v Speaker 2>Congress is out of session and Democrats went home and

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<v Speaker 2>so like all this that was going on was happening

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<v Speaker 2>with no opposition in place, and I think that created

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of fury. And for me, it bothered me

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm like, look, guys, we were warning you this

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<v Speaker 2>was going to happen. It is Project twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 2>They had the playbook out there. So his rapid advancement

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of kind of illiberalism authoritarianism has been beyond

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<v Speaker 2>what I even expected objectively. So taking my opinion out

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<v Speaker 2>and saying how is he done tactically, Well, if your

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<v Speaker 2>goal is illiberalism, if your goal is you know, authoritarianism,

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<v Speaker 2>he's done a great job getting there, right. That's that

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<v Speaker 2>if your goal is as strong America with strong alliances

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<v Speaker 2>that's respected in the world, he gets a terrible job.

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<v Speaker 2>If your goal is if your interest is the economy,

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<v Speaker 2>the US economy, he's done a terrible job. So I'll

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<v Speaker 2>just say this, it is really bad for the United

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<v Speaker 2>States of America right now. I think we can get

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<v Speaker 2>out of this, but I think we're in for a

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<v Speaker 2>few years where it's going to be rough, and frankly,

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<v Speaker 2>we have to have these conversations about what is lawful,

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<v Speaker 2>right and actually effective resistance to this.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let's talk about the role of the Democrats and

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<v Speaker 1>their failure to provide a bulwark against many of these actions.

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<v Speaker 1>If you could go back in time, and of course

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<v Speaker 1>hindsight is twenty twenty, what should the Democrats have done

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of organizing to create some cohesive resistance.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's first important to say, look, the election.

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<v Speaker 2>There's this idea that it was a blowout by Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't. I mean, you know, butterfly effect. If two

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<v Speaker 2>weeks prior a bird would have sneezed a different direction, right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Trump could have lost. It was one percent

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<v Speaker 2>in every one of the swing states, and one percent

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<v Speaker 2>can change on a dime. So it was a close election.

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<v Speaker 2>What could they have done between that election and inauguration

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<v Speaker 2>day is I think be ready for what was coming

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<v Speaker 2>and have a plan, plan to not go home. Look,

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<v Speaker 2>when you're in the minority, really this is in the House. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>keep in mind, actually the majority is so close that

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<v Speaker 2>the minority. In this case, the Democrats actually have a

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<v Speaker 2>little more power because they only need to peel off

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of Republicans. But generally speaking, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>first time I was in the minority in the House,

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<v Speaker 2>one thing we learned is you're weapon is messaging and

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<v Speaker 2>that's it. You know, yes, you can vote no on everything,

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<v Speaker 2>and you will vote no on everything, but your ability

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<v Speaker 2>to message is what's important. So that message should have

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<v Speaker 2>been put together. They should have determined that when session

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<v Speaker 2>went out after frankly January sixth, and then after inauguration,

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<v Speaker 2>they should have stayed in DC. And then let me

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<v Speaker 2>give you an example. All of a sudden, doge is

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<v Speaker 2>running wild in these different agencies. Right, they should have

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<v Speaker 2>been there on day one. They eventually did it. On

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<v Speaker 2>day one. They should have gone to every one of

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<v Speaker 2>these agencies demanded entrance. If by then Doge would have

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<v Speaker 2>had their ducks together and prevented them entry, they should

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<v Speaker 2>have then turned around, made a big deal about it,

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<v Speaker 2>turned around, gone to the DC courts, and gotten a

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<v Speaker 2>court order for entry. There is no legal merit or

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<v Speaker 2>legal reason for a member of Congress to be denied

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<v Speaker 2>entry into an organization or into agency. Yeah, a federal

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<v Speaker 2>agency that they oversee that the courts would take their side.

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<v Speaker 2>You do those battles. You're messaging repeatedly on the floor.

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<v Speaker 2>You're messaging repeatedly to every media outlet you can, whether

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<v Speaker 2>it's mainstream media, even whether it's some of these podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>You put your best messengers out there. And the other

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<v Speaker 2>thing I'll say this is just kind of generally speaking,

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<v Speaker 2>Democrats have to win the working class back again. And

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<v Speaker 2>I know within the Democratic Party I've paid attention to it,

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<v Speaker 2>there's this kind of battle between well, the problem is

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't turn out the left enough, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>we shouldn't have gone after Republicans versus. I don't believe that, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the reality is a lot of Republicans voted

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<v Speaker 2>Democratic this time, but you're losing. The Democrats are losing

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<v Speaker 2>the working class and that was their bread and butter.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what they've got to get back and men, working

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<v Speaker 2>class and men.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'd love to dig into that a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 1>But first, don't you think the Democrats need a cohesive,

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<v Speaker 1>coherent message? In other words, media is so fragmented, as

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and it seems that not only did they

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<v Speaker 1>not do enough in the early days of the administration

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<v Speaker 1>some of the things that you've suggested, but the messaging

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be all over the place. And that is

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<v Speaker 1>one thing that Republicans and MAGA specifically has done well,

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<v Speaker 1>very general, easy to understand messaging and cohesive messaging across

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<v Speaker 1>all their messengers and all their platforms.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. The funny thing is, when I was in Congress,

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<v Speaker 2>we always thought the Democrats were better at this than us,

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<v Speaker 2>and honestly they were until recently. So for Democrats, again,

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<v Speaker 2>my advice is go back to what you used to

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<v Speaker 2>think on this stuff, right, you would have pretty strict messages.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me give you an example of a message that

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<v Speaker 2>I think can work that works for the Republicans. How

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<v Speaker 2>many times have we heard the term Biden crime family. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>now you can look and say well, what are Biden's crimes. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>they never proved any crimes, but the moniker of Biden

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<v Speaker 2>crime family stuck and that made it out of just

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<v Speaker 2>the Fox News realm, that made it everywhere. The reality

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<v Speaker 2>is Trump has a crime family. I mean, you look

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<v Speaker 2>at the stuff that's going on with crypto, the dinner

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<v Speaker 2>he's throwing for his own meme coin, the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>a Chinese billionaire or millionaire who had a crypto investigation

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<v Speaker 2>against him had that dropped after buying some Trump crypto,

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<v Speaker 2>and you look through Don Junior is on the board

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<v Speaker 2>of Calshe, which is a political betting website. I could

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<v Speaker 2>go on and on.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, what about Dave McCormick having a huge investment in

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<v Speaker 1>being the member of the Senate who's overseeing crypto regulation.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely that, Absolutely that. And you think of Elon Musk, right,

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<v Speaker 2>who's willing to go in, take a chainsaw, tell you

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<v Speaker 2>everything that you can live without in the federal government,

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<v Speaker 2>while ensuring that his SpaceX and even Tesla contracts are protected,

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<v Speaker 2>if not even more robust. We're continuing this mission to Mars,

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<v Speaker 2>which look, I'm all for trying to go to Mars,

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<v Speaker 2>but we're continuing this mission while we're cutting food stamps

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<v Speaker 2>and everything else. And so I think the issue of

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<v Speaker 2>corruption is not just a talking point, it's a reality.

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<v Speaker 2>And I honestly think if we go forward ten years

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<v Speaker 2>and look back on this administration, the theme that will

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<v Speaker 2>be a thread throughout it is corruption. It's like when

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<v Speaker 2>you think Nixon, you think of corruption. That's I think

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<v Speaker 2>that what the Democrats have got to focus on.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do they do that in a pithy, short

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<v Speaker 1>sentence or in the kind of earworm that Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>is so good at creating, for example, fake news that

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<v Speaker 1>became this earworm that every time there was something that

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<v Speaker 1>was critical of him or his administration, everyone who supported

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<v Speaker 1>him would accuse the media of fake news. So how

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<v Speaker 1>do you do one of those clever, short, catchy phrases.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you say, Trump crime family, give us some ideas.

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<v Speaker 1>I know you're not in marketing, but that's what they need,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>It is? And so let's take the issue of fake news.

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<v Speaker 2>Now fake news when you think of it, now, what

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<v Speaker 2>you think about is Donald Trump calling the news media fake?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you actually know where fake news came from? It

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<v Speaker 2>was the idea of misinformation. It actually was fake news.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's when we were talking about Russian misinformation for instance.

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<v Speaker 2>Or you know, if somebody created a fake news website

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<v Speaker 2>and they wrote a fake story and then that gets

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<v Speaker 2>picked up by you know, the media or whatever. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what fake news was. It was legitimately fake news. He

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<v Speaker 2>took that and turned it into his thing, because he

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<v Speaker 2>does that just by shamelessness and repeatedly repeating things and

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<v Speaker 2>so to his people. And by the way, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>happen in a month. It happens in like three or

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<v Speaker 2>four years. That's the other thing. You've got to have

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<v Speaker 2>patience for the long game here. So I think one

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<v Speaker 2>example is Biden crime family is stuck. Why don't we

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<v Speaker 2>do Trump crime family or something related to that that

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<v Speaker 2>can stick Trump criminals, the criminal Trump family, the Trump

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<v Speaker 2>crime family, whatever it is, and stick to that message.

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<v Speaker 2>And understand that's going to take two to four years

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<v Speaker 2>to stick, but we've got to stick with it. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just like, look the whole idea of you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred days in. Donald Trump has terrible poll numbers,

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<v Speaker 2>people are still upset. Forty percent of America still likes him. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>let's look at what we've gained, which is he's historically unpopular.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of runway in front of us. Just understand,

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<v Speaker 2>this stuff takes time, but you've got to be disciplined

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<v Speaker 2>about it, and they're very disciplined. The other side is, well.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about these polls. The ABC Washington Post IPSOS

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<v Speaker 1>poll shows his approval rating is thirty nine percent. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>that's the lowest rating of any newly elected president at

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<v Speaker 1>the one hundred day mark since Dwight D. Eisenhower. And

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<v Speaker 1>the CNN poll just twenty two percent say they strongly

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<v Speaker 1>approve of his handling and the job. Forty five percent

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<v Speaker 1>they strongly disapprove. So when you read these polls, and

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<v Speaker 1>there have been a number of them that have come

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<v Speaker 1>out at this one hundred day mark, tell us what

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<v Speaker 1>you extrapolate from them.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's really two big issues within that that I

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<v Speaker 2>think should be warning science for the Republicans. Number one

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<v Speaker 2>is Trump always won on the issue of the economy.

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<v Speaker 2>He's now well, actually very significantly underwater on the issue

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<v Speaker 2>of the economy. Now, again, keep in mind when you

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<v Speaker 2>say economy, that means different things to different people. But

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<v Speaker 2>what it shows is Americans right now feel very anxious

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<v Speaker 2>about where the economy's at They did not feel this

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<v Speaker 2>way at the very beginning of January. So that's one thing.

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<v Speaker 2>The other thing is the issue of immigration. Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>was always winning on the issue of immigration. Now again immigration.

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<v Speaker 2>If you just say that to somebody, it may mean

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<v Speaker 2>a different thing to me than it means to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>even my wife. But he was always above He's now

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<v Speaker 2>underwater on the issue of immigration. What does that mean. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>people still probably want border security. I think that's pretty

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<v Speaker 2>universally desired. I also think the vast majority of Americans

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<v Speaker 2>want a pathway to legalization for folks that are here illegally,

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily citizenship in the first ten years, but legalization

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<v Speaker 2>and then eventually citizenship. And so people are kind of

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<v Speaker 2>looking at this going okay, this like heartless deportation that's

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<v Speaker 2>going on. And look, it's one thing to say we

0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:02.160
<v Speaker 2>think people that are herely should be deported. Okay, that's

0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:06.440
<v Speaker 2>a defendable position. What I think is indefensible is the

0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.000
<v Speaker 2>White House putting out ASMR videos where they're dragging a

0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.440
<v Speaker 2>chain and they're like, isn't this amazing? Or Christy Nomes

0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.080
<v Speaker 2>going to the JLNL Salvador and standing in front of it,

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.720
<v Speaker 2>so we all feel good about how terribly people are

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.000
<v Speaker 2>being treated. And look, the MAGA hardcore base may love that.

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately they do, the vast majority of Americans don't. Those

0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.440
<v Speaker 2>are two warning signs. And if you go even deeper

0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.640
<v Speaker 2>within that, where Donald Trump is taking big hits are

0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 2>with the youth, which he never should have won, but

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>he came pretty close to winning. And then specifically among Hispanics.

0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.360
<v Speaker 2>And it's not necessarily because of immigration that he's lost

0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.120
<v Speaker 2>ground with Hispanics. I think a lot of that is

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.080
<v Speaker 2>economy related, but those are some of his biggest areas.

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Let's dig into immigration for a moment, Adam, because it's

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 1>not only heartless but in many cases illegal. Can you

0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.160
<v Speaker 1>talk about due process and I know that many Americans

0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:05.319
<v Speaker 1>probably a theoretical term when they hear those two words,

0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 1>but talk about how important it is to convey that

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.640
<v Speaker 1>this is being done illegally and unconstitutionally.

0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, let me put it this way. If you're driving

0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.240
<v Speaker 2>in a fifty five mile an hour zone and you're

0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.880
<v Speaker 2>going seventy five and you get pulled over, and let's

0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.440
<v Speaker 2>say the penalty over nineteen miles an hour is arrest

0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.320
<v Speaker 2>in jail Okay, let's say you get arrested, you go

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 2>to jail. The one thing you know, even as a

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.440
<v Speaker 2>law abiding citizen, is you'll have an opportunity to go

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.679
<v Speaker 2>to court. You'll have an opportunity to maybe negotiate that down,

0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.400
<v Speaker 2>pay some kind of penalty or whatever. Imagine if we

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 2>lived in a country that said, if the police officer

0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.560
<v Speaker 2>says that you did twenty miles an hour over the

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.199
<v Speaker 2>speed limit, you don't get a trial, you don't get

0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to defend yourself. You're automatically guilty in one

0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.960
<v Speaker 2>year in jail. What does that do. Well, if that's

0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.520
<v Speaker 2>the penalty and you get pulled over for doing twenty over,

0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.440
<v Speaker 2>you're going to serve the time. But let's say an

0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.320
<v Speaker 2>officer just says you did twenty over and you weren't

0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 2>doing it, you have no ability to defend yourself. That's

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 2>the situation when it comes to immigration. You know, look

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.360
<v Speaker 2>what they do is they're taking the people that are

0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 2>in generally you know, may have connections to organized crime,

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 2>maybe broke the law here besides just coming illegally, and

0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.600
<v Speaker 2>they're breaking due process. They're not giving due processes people

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 2>and they're saying, wait, what you want due process for

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.920
<v Speaker 2>this guy who is a member of a gang. What

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.360
<v Speaker 2>about you know, this person who was killed by a

0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.320
<v Speaker 2>gang member. This person didn't have due process. All of

0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.080
<v Speaker 2>that's true, But what they're doing is trying to get

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.400
<v Speaker 2>you to focus on the badness of a person and

0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 2>not the fact that everybody in the United States of

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.760
<v Speaker 2>America gets a chance to plea their case. Now, very well,

0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.400
<v Speaker 2>if you're a member of MS thirteen, for instance, and

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 2>the government can prove it, you're going to probably be deported,

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.480
<v Speaker 2>as you should be, but you should still have a

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 2>right to make your case. And look, the Constitution does

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.480
<v Speaker 2>not delineate between US citizens in the United States of

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 2>America or any people in the United States of America.

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.080
<v Speaker 2>And so when you break due process for the least

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.200
<v Speaker 2>of these, like the Bible says, whatever you do for

0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 2>the least of these, you do under me. Here's the

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 2>other thing, all of these little things we're doing little

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 2>steps towards authoritarianism or towards illiberalism, whatever you want to

0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 2>call it. Each step in and of itself is not

0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.400
<v Speaker 2>enough to be outraged to the point of take to

0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>the streets in general, strike right, But in cumulation they

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>are and when you say to somebody, we're gonna not

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.240
<v Speaker 2>do due process for this bad person. Well, next thing,

0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 2>it's okay, we're not gonna do due process because we

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.520
<v Speaker 2>already did it for the bags, for the people that

0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 2>are here illegally. And then well, there are enemies of

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the state, and I get it, they're American citizens, but

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.600
<v Speaker 2>you know they were Palestinian rallies or whatever. And then

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 2>next it's Adam Kinsinger. He's a Rhino and he went

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.920
<v Speaker 2>against the president. And the next thing it's you. That's

0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 2>how these little steps, each of which is not enough

0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.120
<v Speaker 2>to spark massive outrage, but in cumulation is as as

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.000
<v Speaker 2>they said, you know, and again I don't want to

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 2>make comparisons to Nazi Germany, but in this case it's

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.600
<v Speaker 2>a good example, which is, if in nineteen thirty five

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.800
<v Speaker 2>they'd have opened concentration camps, the German public would have rebelled.

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.320
<v Speaker 2>But if you just boil the frog to the point

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>where you open it in and of itself, you get

0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 2>yourself to a point where it's not outrageous enough.

0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 1>How frightening is this to you?

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 2>Uh? Pretty frightening. And look, I'm going to steal this

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 2>from Charlie Sykes, But I think it's well said, he said.

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I am not optimistic, but I am hopeful. And that's

0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.120
<v Speaker 2>how I feel, which is I look back at history,

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.160
<v Speaker 2>and I know every time we've faced like dark moments,

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.840
<v Speaker 2>we've come through them. I mean, one took a civil war,

0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.720
<v Speaker 2>but we've come through those moments and actually come out stronger.

0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 2>So I have no reason to believe that the American

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 2>people have fundamentally their DNA has changed, that we're not

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 2>going to come back out of this stronger. Three and

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 2>a half years seems like forever when you're on this

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.520
<v Speaker 2>side of it, but once it's past, you look back

0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 2>and it goes by in an instant. And I mean,

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.520
<v Speaker 2>by the way, we're one hundred days in and already

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 2>millions of Americans have taken to the streets in almost

0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.280
<v Speaker 2>every organized town and city in this country. Those are

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:10.679
<v Speaker 2>good science, but our defensive democracy is not automatic. And

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 2>that's where I'm very concerned, is, you know, we have

0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>to step up. A judge in Wisconsin is arrested, Like

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 2>some of this stuff is outrageous and we've grown numb

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:22.240
<v Speaker 2>to it.

0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about the arrest of that Wisconsin judge, Hannah

0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.399
<v Speaker 1>Dugan who was arrested by the FBI on suspicion that

0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.520
<v Speaker 1>she had steered an undocumented immigrant through a side door

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:38.440
<v Speaker 1>to evade federal agents. Why is that such an outrage

0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:39.119
<v Speaker 1>in your view?

0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 2>So it's two things. First Off, I didn't know it

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.919
<v Speaker 2>was illegal to, you know, kind of hide somebody that

0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.480
<v Speaker 2>has not been convicted necessarily by the Feds they wanted

0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.479
<v Speaker 2>to deport them. I don't know all the details, but

0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.040
<v Speaker 2>is this saying that if you know somebody who's illegal

0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 2>and they're at your house and the police come, that

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.720
<v Speaker 2>it's illegal to say they're not there. That's kind of chilling,

0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 2>to be honest with you, if it's like that. But secondarily,

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.000
<v Speaker 2>simply the fact that ICE in general has always kind

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.080
<v Speaker 2>of had an unspoken rule or maybe spoken rule with

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.240
<v Speaker 2>local jurisdictions that they won't enforce there. Because what you

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.760
<v Speaker 2>want to do is first off, tell anybody that's in

0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.359
<v Speaker 2>the country illegally that they can still use the judicial system.

0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they're a victim of a crime. Right if you

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.080
<v Speaker 2>have a rape victim, for instance, who's an illegal immigrant,

0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.159
<v Speaker 2>are they going to go to the law enforcement if

0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.159
<v Speaker 2>they know that ICE is camped out right there and

0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.639
<v Speaker 2>ready to deport them. And then the other thing is

0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.119
<v Speaker 2>just look, I'll say this is an old school former

0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Republican is like, we actually used to believe in sovereignty

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 2>of states. We actually used to believe that states had

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.679
<v Speaker 2>a certain power that the federal government didn't. And so

0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.359
<v Speaker 2>the idea that the Feds are going to come in

0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.320
<v Speaker 2>and say we're going to arrest a duly elected, by

0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.920
<v Speaker 2>the way, not appointed, a duly elected judge in Milwaukee

0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 2>is very chilling. And Plus, I think Carol Levitt or

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 2>somebody today or yesterday said that they wouldn't hesitate to

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.760
<v Speaker 2>arrest a Supreme Court justice that they said would violate

0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 2>the law. And again, the question isn't yeah, okay, if

0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:09.240
<v Speaker 2>John Roberts murdered somebody, you can arrest John Roberts. They're

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.479
<v Speaker 2>not talking about that. They are defining what is breaking

0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.240
<v Speaker 2>the law and what isn't. Look, I'm called a lawbreaker

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 2>why because I was on a committee that investigated January sixth.

0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.360
<v Speaker 2>In Donald Trump's mind, I am a criminal for investigating him.

0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.199
<v Speaker 2>So do we really want to leave them with the

0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.760
<v Speaker 2>power to determine what a crime is and what's arrestable.

0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:31.560
<v Speaker 2>That's why it's extremely chilling.

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.240
<v Speaker 1>What if we told you it was possible to prevent, manage,

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.920
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0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:50.400
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0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.959
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0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:59.280
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0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 1>future for everyone. Learn more at CZI dot com, that's

0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:19.159
<v Speaker 1>CZI dot com, or follow them on social media. I

0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.160
<v Speaker 1>have to ask you about the removal of three children

0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 1>who are US citizens by Ice, as well as their

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 1>mothers from this country last Friday. One, a four year

0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.919
<v Speaker 1>old with stage four cancer, was sent without medication or

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.679
<v Speaker 1>the ability to contact their doctors. According to their lawyer,

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 1>this is yet another major story about people lawfully living

0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:48.040
<v Speaker 1>in this country being forced to leave, another chilling example of,

0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 1>to say the least, overreach by the administration.

0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.359
<v Speaker 2>It's complete overreach. And again, the other bigger point on

0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.119
<v Speaker 2>this is it's complete heartlessness. I mean, look, if when

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.040
<v Speaker 2>you look at in essence, all the periods of American history,

0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.160
<v Speaker 2>even when we did pretty evil things, like the people

0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.440
<v Speaker 2>that did evil things in many cases thought they were

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, maybe they thought they were doing the

0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.399
<v Speaker 2>right thing whatever. But like for us to now say,

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:17.879
<v Speaker 2>you know what, we sent a kid who's an American

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 2>citizen and has stage four cancers, Oh well, their parents

0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.600
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have been illegal. I mean, what does that say

0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.439
<v Speaker 2>about the heart of America? Like, that's what concerns me.

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:27.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, the one thing that the United States had

0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:30.480
<v Speaker 2>over it that I think is better than what you

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.280
<v Speaker 2>have over generic country A or B, whatever it is,

0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.920
<v Speaker 2>is that in everything we did, even when we got

0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 2>it wrong. You know, when we intervened in areas we

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.920
<v Speaker 2>probably shouldn't have created a war or whatever. Each time,

0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.200
<v Speaker 2>though we did it under the belief that we were

0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.280
<v Speaker 2>doing the right thing, or at least the American people

0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.040
<v Speaker 2>thought we were doing the right thing. We've shed now

0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 2>this belief that we are a moral country, and we've

0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.800
<v Speaker 2>now allowed our base instincts to take over. Okay, I've

0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.640
<v Speaker 2>always said, like humanity has a battle in their heart

0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:01.960
<v Speaker 2>every year day, each one of us. Do you have

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.399
<v Speaker 2>a battle of light and darkness? Right? You know you

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 2>have to kind of fight the divisive thoughts that the

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.359
<v Speaker 2>negative thoughts and try to have light overcome it. But

0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.360
<v Speaker 2>darkness is so much easier to embrace. If you embrace darkness.

0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 2>It's easy. You can let somebody else do it. You

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.440
<v Speaker 2>can let all those really base instincts of hate, of division,

0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.240
<v Speaker 2>of fear take over and rule your life. The problem

0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.879
<v Speaker 2>is it's really destructive to you, to your family and

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.159
<v Speaker 2>to the community. And that's where we're at as a

0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.919
<v Speaker 2>nation now, is letting those destructive tendencies take over and

0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 2>that complete heartlessness. And so do they have a legal

0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:38.479
<v Speaker 2>right to deport a kid with an illegal mother that

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:40.600
<v Speaker 2>maybe wants our kid to go with her? You know,

0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't. There's nuances. I don't know, but I know

0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:45.359
<v Speaker 2>that we were a country in the past that if

0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>there was a legal US citizen, we certainly wouldn't deport

0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:50.040
<v Speaker 2>them and can't. And that's a big concern to me,

0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.880
<v Speaker 2>is because again you go into these like little steps

0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 2>and what do they ultimately end up. Well, let's start

0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.639
<v Speaker 2>deporting enemies of the state, which Donald Trump's already said

0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:00.560
<v Speaker 2>he wants to do.

0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.200
<v Speaker 1>He does have the lowest approval rating for any president

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:09.720
<v Speaker 1>in his first one hundred days since Dwight D. Eisenhower.

0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.119
<v Speaker 1>What do you think, Adam, it will take for his

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.119
<v Speaker 1>hardcore magabase to flip.

0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.760
<v Speaker 2>If the hardcore magabase flips. It will be because of

0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:25.240
<v Speaker 2>a devastating economy, a devastating economy that you can absolutely

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:27.760
<v Speaker 2>pin on him, right, So, all of a sudden, this

0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:31.600
<v Speaker 2>is quite possible. We have real shortages of things like

0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.320
<v Speaker 2>toilet paper. It reminds us of COVID and the supply

0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:36.919
<v Speaker 2>chain issues there. I mean, we're finding out that, you know,

0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:39.119
<v Speaker 2>shipments that are supposed to be arriving on the West

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:43.240
<v Speaker 2>Coast are already either significantly gone or have much less

0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:46.959
<v Speaker 2>inventory coming in. That trickle down effect to the railroads,

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.639
<v Speaker 2>to the truckers, to the grocery store, and to the

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 2>Walgreens or Cbs is pretty devastating. You know, in rural America,

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.520
<v Speaker 2>for instance, what did they do with the farm economy?

0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 2>What happens there? Do we end up in a nineteen

0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:02.320
<v Speaker 2>ninety five farmedy. I mean, I was raised in the Midwest.

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Mid nineties were awful for the farm economy, and it's

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.040
<v Speaker 2>when a lot of the family businesses went out and

0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 2>you saw the big corporations come in and take them over.

0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:13.400
<v Speaker 2>I also think though the hardcore Magas may stick with him,

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, through thick and thin, but of the people

0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:19.840
<v Speaker 2>that voted for him, a significant part is the MAGA base,

0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:21.639
<v Speaker 2>But there's a part here that is just kind of

0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:23.080
<v Speaker 2>I've talked to a lot of them that are like,

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't like him, but I didn't like Joe Biden,

0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:28.520
<v Speaker 2>and the economy was better under Trump.

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 1>And I didn't like Kamala Harris.

0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Right, And I didn't like Kamala Harris. And it's like, okay, well,

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean you have a right to vote for Trump.

0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Those are the first that are going to go. And

0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 2>I think you're already seeing them start to peel off,

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.040
<v Speaker 2>which is like, yeah, maybe they didn't like some of

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:46.199
<v Speaker 2>the social policies of Kamala or Biden or whatever it is,

0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:49.680
<v Speaker 2>but you automatically made this assumption that the economy was

0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:52.680
<v Speaker 2>going to be good. So it's like Maslow's hierarchy, Right,

0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:56.080
<v Speaker 2>the economy is here. If you assume that's gonna be good,

0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:58.680
<v Speaker 2>then you can start voting on these little self actualization

0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.200
<v Speaker 2>things that bother you. Right, Well, all of a sudden,

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.400
<v Speaker 2>if the economy collapses and crumbles, you're going back into

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.119
<v Speaker 2>the base instinctom I got to protect my family, and

0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:09.240
<v Speaker 2>I think that does a lot of damage to him.

0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.880
<v Speaker 2>He may not personally care about his approval ratings because look,

0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:15.160
<v Speaker 2>he's not going to run again. He may want to,

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:16.160
<v Speaker 2>and he may try to.

0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:18.920
<v Speaker 1>There's certainly a lot of noise about that, Adam.

0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 2>There is. I still believe in this case the Constitution

0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and the Supreme Court is actually strong enough to deny him.

0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.639
<v Speaker 2>I think where the battle could be is what happens

0:25:26.640 --> 0:25:29.000
<v Speaker 2>in different states when they have to make the decision.

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 2>So we can talk about that, but I think the

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:34.919
<v Speaker 2>bottom line is he may not care about his polling,

0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:38.040
<v Speaker 2>but the people that will are the Republicans in Congress

0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:39.800
<v Speaker 2>that now, all of a sudden, this is why things

0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:44.399
<v Speaker 2>like town halls and protests are so important, because we

0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:46.800
<v Speaker 2>have to send a message to these members of Congress

0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:51.320
<v Speaker 2>that they should fear politically, not physically, should fear their

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.760
<v Speaker 2>constituents more than they fear Donald Trump. Katie, I hated

0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>doing town hall meetings. I hated them. Why because I

0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 2>had to stand in front of people and just fi

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:03.480
<v Speaker 2>what I did. I would do them, but I hated them.

0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:05.600
<v Speaker 2>That's why you have to do it. That's why your

0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:07.639
<v Speaker 2>member of Congress has to come in front of you,

0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:10.080
<v Speaker 2>because they work for you and they deserve to give

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>you answers. And by the way, if that whole crowd

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 2>is a bunch of people that don't like that congressman, okay,

0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:17.520
<v Speaker 2>you know what, he or she could turn out people

0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:20.159
<v Speaker 2>that support them, but those people aren't as motivated. And

0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:22.919
<v Speaker 2>if they're not doing town halls, force them to. And

0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:24.880
<v Speaker 2>if they say they're going to do a telephone town

0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 2>hall instead, that's not a real town hall. You can

0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:30.400
<v Speaker 2>totally control a telephone town hall. That's an old trick.

0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:32.360
<v Speaker 1>By the way, I was going to ask you why

0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.560
<v Speaker 1>you hated doing town halls, because ostensibly you thought you

0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:38.720
<v Speaker 1>were doing the right thing and defending what you did

0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:41.680
<v Speaker 1>in Congress should not have been that difficult, was it.

0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 2>So keep in mind the majority of the town halls

0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:45.640
<v Speaker 2>I had to do. The people that would turn out

0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:48.320
<v Speaker 2>to yell at me were kind of the far right, okay,

0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 2>because at that time the Democrats in the left, they

0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:54.400
<v Speaker 2>may have liked me as a Republican, but they weren't

0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 2>going to really support me. I always had battles with

0:26:57.320 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 2>the right. So I would have to stand in front

0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and justify why to raise the debt limit, for instance,

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:04.080
<v Speaker 2>and they would go apoplectic and I would have to

0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.240
<v Speaker 2>explain to them how you have to raise a debt

0:27:06.240 --> 0:27:09.480
<v Speaker 2>limit that's just a requirement, or how you can't solve

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:12.320
<v Speaker 2>the federal budget in one year. So it's not fun

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:14.240
<v Speaker 2>to do. I mean, like standing in front and doing

0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:17.160
<v Speaker 2>it is not fun to do. But I recognized that

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:20.800
<v Speaker 2>I got paid to do that. I got paid to

0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:23.440
<v Speaker 2>be accountable to the people that sent me to Washington, DC.

0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:24.960
<v Speaker 2>And if I didn't want to do it anymore, and

0:27:25.000 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 2>eventually I didn't want to do it anymore, and I

0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:29.639
<v Speaker 2>didn't run again of a district of seven hundred thousand people,

0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:30.960
<v Speaker 2>there's somebody that can replace me.

0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm just curious. You say that members of Congress have

0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:38.399
<v Speaker 1>to fear their constituents more than Donald Trump, and Lisa

0:27:38.480 --> 0:27:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Murkowski talked about that at a town hall meeting, how

0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:47.120
<v Speaker 1>fearful she was about retribution from the White House. Are

0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 1>you starting to see Republican members of Congress Adam stand

0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:55.520
<v Speaker 1>up and fight against Trump and are you hopeful more

0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:57.800
<v Speaker 1>will do so in the near future.

0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:01.159
<v Speaker 2>It's a tough question to answer. I can't say. You know,

0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Lisa Murkowski is one of the shining stars I think

0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:07.560
<v Speaker 2>of Republicans that's willing to tell the truth and willing

0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:10.760
<v Speaker 2>to vote her conscience when I think of the House.

0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, there's a few in there. You think

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:17.359
<v Speaker 2>of people like Don Bacon or Brian Fitzpatrick specifically on

0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 2>the issue of Ukraine, for instance, that are out there

0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:23.200
<v Speaker 2>being very aggressive on Ukraine, and so I give credit

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.080
<v Speaker 2>to that. But at the same time, look and I go,

0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:30.280
<v Speaker 2>many of these people lived through and sat through January

0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 2>sixth and sat through the investigation, put out statements about

0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:38.320
<v Speaker 2>how the investigation was somehow partisan or whatever. And so

0:28:39.080 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll be honest, I don't really see indications that people

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.480
<v Speaker 2>are willing to step up yet. I think they're so

0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 2>frozen in fear. And I think the thing we have

0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:49.240
<v Speaker 2>to remember is Donald Trump still feels like a new

0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:52.000
<v Speaker 2>phenomenon to us, but he's been in the system for

0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:54.960
<v Speaker 2>about ten years now, and over those ten years, they've

0:28:55.000 --> 0:28:57.720
<v Speaker 2>been able to shake out anybody with any independent thought,

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:01.479
<v Speaker 2>anybody with any courage, anybody that's willing to tell the truth,

0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.720
<v Speaker 2>and they've basically formed a party like a cult in

0:29:04.760 --> 0:29:07.760
<v Speaker 2>its own image. So am I hopeful that people wake up?

0:29:07.800 --> 0:29:10.760
<v Speaker 2>I guess, like, yeah, I want to remain hopeful, but

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 2>I guess I haven't seen many indications of that yet.

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:15.280
<v Speaker 2>With Lisa Markowski being a rare exception. I just want

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:18.479
<v Speaker 2>to say this too. If you're scared in the job,

0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 2>get a different job. Like the thing is, it doesn't

0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 2>pay that well. Like it pays okay, one hundred and

0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:26.800
<v Speaker 2>seventy four thousand dollars a year, which by the way,

0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:29.440
<v Speaker 2>has been the same salary since two thousand and six,

0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:32.040
<v Speaker 2>so with inflation, it's been about a thirty five percent

0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:35.600
<v Speaker 2>pay cut. Okay. Why do the job if you're scared?

0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Why do the job if you think you know death

0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:40.080
<v Speaker 2>threats are going to come to you and you're going

0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>to vote a different way because of that. I mean,

0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I hear people say they voted against impeachment because of

0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 2>the death threats. Like I had death threats too, Okay,

0:29:47.360 --> 0:29:49.840
<v Speaker 2>but I also recognize that my job wasn't to be

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 2>scared of death threats. It was to do the right thing.

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:54.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it just goes beyond anything I can

0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:54.880
<v Speaker 2>even understand.

0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:57.400
<v Speaker 1>I guess what do you think it is? Why are

0:29:57.400 --> 0:30:01.400
<v Speaker 1>they so afraid? You're right? Find out new job or

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:04.560
<v Speaker 1>grow a pair? And the question is are they just

0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 1>that addicted to power? Do they not know what else

0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:09.720
<v Speaker 1>to do with their lives? What's wrong?

0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 2>With these people, I think you're onto it. I think

0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:15.080
<v Speaker 2>it's Look, you imagine most of these people. I was

0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:17.040
<v Speaker 2>young when I got into politics. I was thirty two

0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty one when I was elected, and most of these

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:23.200
<v Speaker 2>people get elected at fifty sixty years old. Okay, So

0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 2>think about that. They spent their entire life probably with

0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:29.920
<v Speaker 2>the desire to go to the House of Representatives, and

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 2>then they made it, right, I mean, it's a big

0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:33.600
<v Speaker 2>achievement to make it again. One out of seven hundred

0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:36.520
<v Speaker 2>thousand people serve in that body. And so now all

0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:40.000
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, the idea of taking a stand. Maybe

0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:42.520
<v Speaker 2>that feels heroic, but you've looked at everybody that has

0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.520
<v Speaker 2>taken a stand, and they all have lost or gotten

0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 2>kicked out right, And so you make the decision and

0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:52.240
<v Speaker 2>you justify it to yourself. You justified because you have

0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:54.800
<v Speaker 2>sunken costs, Like why did we stay in Vietnam? Because

0:30:54.800 --> 0:30:56.960
<v Speaker 2>we already lost ten thousand men. We can't leave now

0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:00.920
<v Speaker 2>right now, we've so you've already justified the the moral

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:04.360
<v Speaker 2>decisions you've made, and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna stay

0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:06.880
<v Speaker 2>because if I leave, somebody worse is going to replace me.

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:09.360
<v Speaker 2>The other thing is this, look, I think people fear

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 2>more than they fear death. They fear being kicked out

0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 2>of their tribe and their social circle. And I got

0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:15.440
<v Speaker 2>to tell you, as a guy that's been kind of

0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.400
<v Speaker 2>kicked out of a tribe, there, it sucks. It hurts.

0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:19.720
<v Speaker 2>You lose friends, friends that you think are real, friends

0:31:19.720 --> 0:31:22.840
<v Speaker 2>that you recognize, aren't. You lose some family members over it.

0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:25.480
<v Speaker 2>And I mean there were points at which probably death

0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 2>would have been easier than some of the things that

0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:28.720
<v Speaker 2>I had to go through, and these people would have

0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:31.120
<v Speaker 2>to go through that's a big fear too. But let

0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:34.080
<v Speaker 2>me just say this. I went into Congress with this

0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:37.840
<v Speaker 2>idea that someday, you know, if I had to go

0:31:37.920 --> 0:31:40.600
<v Speaker 2>out in a blaze of glory standing for truth, I

0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.360
<v Speaker 2>would do it. And I actually got an opportunity to

0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.080
<v Speaker 2>do it. And I got to tell you, most people,

0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I've learned, most people, very rarely, even in Congress, get

0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:52.440
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to kind of, you know, stand against the pressure.

0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:55.440
<v Speaker 2>And those that get the opportunity, even very few are

0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:58.479
<v Speaker 2>willing to do it. I have no regrets about it,

0:31:58.520 --> 0:32:01.120
<v Speaker 2>and I'm happy to be out now. And the only

0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:02.600
<v Speaker 2>regret I have is I wish I would have done

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 2>it louder and twice as hard.

0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you about the Pentagon has a former

0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Air Force pilot. You must know lots of people Adam

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.680
<v Speaker 1>in the military still, and lots of people of the

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Department of Defense. It sounds as if it is a

0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:21.880
<v Speaker 1>real pardon my French shit show there right now. Tell

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:25.720
<v Speaker 1>us what you're hearing and how people feel about Pete

0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:27.000
<v Speaker 1>hegsas leadership.

0:32:27.560 --> 0:32:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, look, and I know some of the

0:32:29.040 --> 0:32:31.320
<v Speaker 2>people that are in the news stories right now, and

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:36.160
<v Speaker 2>it's I think it's for your average probably soldier that

0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:39.800
<v Speaker 2>they probably don't really care too much because to them

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:42.520
<v Speaker 2>it's like, well, what's my mission today? Whatever. A lot

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:45.880
<v Speaker 2>of my friends are kind of higher ranking officers, and yeah,

0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:49.360
<v Speaker 2>they're a little concerned about it, you know, they're bothered

0:32:49.360 --> 0:32:49.680
<v Speaker 2>by it.

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 1>What are they saying to you, Adam, I.

0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Think just chaos, Like what's this chaos? You know? And

0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:56.440
<v Speaker 2>by the way, I'm talking to some of my friends

0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:59.440
<v Speaker 2>that are like hardcore Trumpers actually that are now like

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.200
<v Speaker 2>they haven't necessarily turned on Trump, So I don't want

0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:04.560
<v Speaker 2>to get people that impression, but they've kind of turned

0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 2>on Heg Sath and been like this is just chaos

0:33:07.320 --> 0:33:09.880
<v Speaker 2>for the sake of chaos, right. They also recognize, here's

0:33:09.880 --> 0:33:13.200
<v Speaker 2>a big point, if any of my friends that are

0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:16.000
<v Speaker 2>still in the military had done on a signal chat

0:33:16.000 --> 0:33:18.080
<v Speaker 2>what heg Sath and all those people did, they'd be

0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:21.760
<v Speaker 2>in Leavenworth right now, or at least facing the possibility

0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 2>of a jail sentence for that. And they recognize the

0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:28.040
<v Speaker 2>disparity and the unfairness of that. The interesting dynamic about

0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:30.760
<v Speaker 2>the military, though, is it's probably just as divided as

0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:34.520
<v Speaker 2>regular society is. When I was in typically the officer

0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 2>corps was more Republican, about eighty percent of military officers

0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 2>voted Republican. The enlisted was about split fifty to fifty.

0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:44.600
<v Speaker 2>You're actually seeing the opposite of that now, you're seeing

0:33:44.960 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the enlisted core tends to be more kind of Maga

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 2>and Trump right now, and the officer court is about

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:55.640
<v Speaker 2>fifty to fifty, maybe even slightly leaning Democratic. What's the reason, Well,

0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:58.479
<v Speaker 2>because broader what you've seen as Democrats are winning college

0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:02.040
<v Speaker 2>educated and Republican aren't, and officers are you know, have

0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 2>to have college degrees. The concern I have is, look,

0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:07.640
<v Speaker 2>the military, they've always told us our job is to

0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:11.640
<v Speaker 2>defend the Constitution not to follow the unconstitutional orders. But

0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:14.520
<v Speaker 2>what the early moves of the Trump administration in the

0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Pentagon has been to put loyalists in place and make

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:20.880
<v Speaker 2>it very clear that you work for Donald Trump, not

0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:25.080
<v Speaker 2>for the Constitution. And of course, one man's constitutional defense

0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:29.480
<v Speaker 2>is another man's constitutional traitorism. Like what is defending the Constitution?

0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:32.520
<v Speaker 2>It's different with every person. So I worry about kind

0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:35.560
<v Speaker 2>of that moral morass that the Pentagon could find itself in.

0:34:35.920 --> 0:34:39.359
<v Speaker 1>Given these two signal chat incidents, what do you think

0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 1>should happen to Pete heg Seth And do you think

0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:42.440
<v Speaker 1>anything will?

0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, HEGs I should be out on us. But

0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the reality is this guy. You know, I feel like

0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:49.919
<v Speaker 2>I could be Secretary of Defense, but I also feel

0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:52.759
<v Speaker 2>like I would have a steep learning curve. I outranked

0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:55.879
<v Speaker 2>heg Seth in the military. I've been in more operations

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:59.440
<v Speaker 2>than him, and I served, you know, twelve years in Congress.

0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:03.840
<v Speaker 2>I understand in government, this guy was a major, great

0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:07.080
<v Speaker 2>cool and a weekend talk show host, and all of

0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:09.759
<v Speaker 2>a sudden is now taking the largest, most legal organization

0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:13.920
<v Speaker 2>in the world, totally in over his head. He knows it.

0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:16.160
<v Speaker 2>That's what you can read it in the signal chats.

0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 2>He knows he's over his head because he's doing his

0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:22.640
<v Speaker 2>damnedest to try to prove to everybody that he's totally capable.

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:25.520
<v Speaker 2>He's got like this imposture syndrome, except it would be

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:28.400
<v Speaker 2>called syndrome, except it's just he's actually an imposture. So

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:29.960
<v Speaker 2>I think he needs to be fired and removed. And

0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:32.239
<v Speaker 2>I think eventually, if we fast forward to July, I

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:35.560
<v Speaker 2>think he's gone. I think he'll probably stick around for

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:37.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit, so it doesn't appear that he was

0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 2>pushed out by the Libs or whatever. But I don't

0:35:41.120 --> 0:35:42.919
<v Speaker 2>think he's going to last a whole lot longer. That's

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:43.600
<v Speaker 2>just my prediction.

0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:47.399
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you about your recent substack about

0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:51.080
<v Speaker 1>the impacts tariffs and DOGE cuts are having on your

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:55.400
<v Speaker 1>home state of Illinois, Adams, specifically among farmers in the Midwest.

0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:59.759
<v Speaker 1>I spoke with the farmer from Iowa not too long

0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:03.120
<v Speaker 1>ago that Tom Harkin connected me with, and there was

0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:08.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of concern about the DOGE cuts, about USDA cuts,

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:14.319
<v Speaker 1>about programs for needy school children, about subsidies, about training programs,

0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:18.400
<v Speaker 1>about all kinds of things that were impacting farmers seventy

0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:21.879
<v Speaker 1>seven percent of whom voted for Donald Trump. What are

0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:23.920
<v Speaker 1>you hearing from your home state.

0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean the same thing. Look, it's just the

0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:30.320
<v Speaker 2>twelve second budget primer. Like, you could eliminate the Department

0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:33.040
<v Speaker 2>of Defense and every federal agency and we would still

0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 2>be running a budget deficit right now, which is humbling

0:36:35.680 --> 0:36:38.880
<v Speaker 2>to think about. One of the largest expenditures now is

0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:41.800
<v Speaker 2>simply interest on the debt. We're spending more in interest

0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:43.880
<v Speaker 2>on the debt than we are on all of defense,

0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:47.239
<v Speaker 2>and we are on Medicare. So the problems with the

0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:50.640
<v Speaker 2>debt and deficit have got to be structural reforms. Those

0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:55.359
<v Speaker 2>structural reforms are not going into programs like USAID, which

0:36:55.400 --> 0:36:57.680
<v Speaker 2>is less than half a percent of the budget and

0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:00.680
<v Speaker 2>has exponential results in terms of helping out to avoid

0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:04.360
<v Speaker 2>war and to basically have power outreach. And then on

0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:07.799
<v Speaker 2>the local, on the farm community, you know things like

0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:10.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you have a child with autism, for instance,

0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:13.120
<v Speaker 2>and you know you want them to have a little

0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:15.960
<v Speaker 2>extra help in their school district, that help comes from

0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:19.040
<v Speaker 2>the federal government, even though it's done by the school district.

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:21.719
<v Speaker 2>You start taking programs like that away, and all of

0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:24.239
<v Speaker 2>a sudden you're going to see RFK Junior's little thing

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 2>about how you know autism is somehow makes you less

0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:28.600
<v Speaker 2>of a person come true, because they're not going to

0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 2>have access to the resources they need. And for farmers,

0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:36.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, during the first Trump administration, when there were tariffs,

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:38.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, moderately on China and a few other places,

0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:41.520
<v Speaker 2>and then they still gave bailouts to the farmers. Every

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.040
<v Speaker 2>farmer I talked to said two things. Number One, the

0:37:44.040 --> 0:37:46.520
<v Speaker 2>bailouts are not enough to take into account you know,

0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:48.799
<v Speaker 2>how much they would have sold otherwise. And they don't

0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:51.120
<v Speaker 2>want to bail out. Who wants a bailout When you're

0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 2>a farmer, you're obviously you want to work hard, you

0:37:54.239 --> 0:37:56.239
<v Speaker 2>want to see the results of your production, and you

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:58.280
<v Speaker 2>want to know that what you're doing is feeding people.

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:00.319
<v Speaker 2>You don't need to check from the government to make

0:38:00.360 --> 0:38:01.880
<v Speaker 2>sure that you just stay. I mean, you'll take it,

0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:04.520
<v Speaker 2>but that's not what your goal in life is. And

0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.280
<v Speaker 2>so I'm hearing the same thing, which is they're worried

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:10.160
<v Speaker 2>about what the cuts are. They're worried about, you know,

0:38:10.200 --> 0:38:14.120
<v Speaker 2>obviously the tariffs China or somebody just said they canceled

0:38:14.160 --> 0:38:16.479
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty tons of beef for one hundred

0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:19.359
<v Speaker 2>and fifty million tons of whatever it was, and that's

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:22.080
<v Speaker 2>going to have real devastating impacts. Does that mean they've

0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:25.560
<v Speaker 2>turned against Trump? Not necessarily, because I think a lot

0:38:25.560 --> 0:38:27.640
<v Speaker 2>of them. I think a lot of them still believe

0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:31.000
<v Speaker 2>he's playing some six dimensional chess game, and it may

0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:34.400
<v Speaker 2>take them to actually see a little more that he

0:38:34.560 --> 0:38:38.200
<v Speaker 2>really doesn't know what he's doing for them to be like, Okay,

0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 2>it's time to move on.

0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:42.600
<v Speaker 1>What happens if after a period of pain for farmers

0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and small businesses, somehow this tariff thing turns around and

0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 1>works in his favor. I mean, that's what he's trying

0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:53.960
<v Speaker 1>to convince voters of that there is going to be

0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:57.439
<v Speaker 1>a period of pain until things get better. Is there

0:38:57.600 --> 0:39:00.680
<v Speaker 1>any evidence that that could happen in your view?

0:39:01.000 --> 0:39:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, let me just say, if magically it did happen,

0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:05.920
<v Speaker 2>of course it would reflect well on him. But I

0:39:05.920 --> 0:39:10.040
<v Speaker 2>can confidently say it ain't gonna happen. Why because look,

0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:14.400
<v Speaker 2>here's here's a quick example. We've put tariffs on coffee imports.

0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:19.280
<v Speaker 2>The United States is basically physically incapable of even growing coffee.

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:21.640
<v Speaker 2>We can grow a little bit in California, a little

0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:24.239
<v Speaker 2>bit in Hawaii. It's like one percent of what we

0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:27.040
<v Speaker 2>can what we drink in coffee. So we're tariffing an

0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:30.920
<v Speaker 2>industry that we can't even compete against. That that's pointless

0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:34.280
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden. You know, this idea that Donald

0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Trump wants to bring iPhone manufacturing here is insane because

0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:40.280
<v Speaker 2>how many people are gonna want to do a job,

0:39:40.440 --> 0:39:43.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, screwing little screws into an iPhone. We don't

0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:45.040
<v Speaker 2>have the people to do it because we do a

0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:49.040
<v Speaker 2>pretty low unemployment in this country, and now we're deporting

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:51.480
<v Speaker 2>every immigrant that could possibly work at that place. Think

0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:53.440
<v Speaker 2>of it. Remember the whole eating the dogs and cats

0:39:53.440 --> 0:39:56.120
<v Speaker 2>in Columbus, Ohio thing. Why were there so many Haitians

0:39:56.120 --> 0:39:59.000
<v Speaker 2>in Columbus, Ohio because they were needed for work in

0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 2>manufacturing because they needed the employees there. So it's even

0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:07.479
<v Speaker 2>if banning manufacturing makes the idea to come back here,

0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:09.439
<v Speaker 2>they're not going to have the people to hire. Here's

0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:13.439
<v Speaker 2>the amazing thing is after COVID, the supply chains were

0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:17.399
<v Speaker 2>massively realigning in the United States. Favor I actually ran

0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:20.880
<v Speaker 2>a bill through that said, like, we will incentivize certain

0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:26.640
<v Speaker 2>industries to either onshore or near shore Canada, Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras,

0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:31.040
<v Speaker 2>right among an allied nation that we know, for instance, penicillin,

0:40:31.120 --> 0:40:33.359
<v Speaker 2>we have access to penicillin. We don't have to rely

0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:37.120
<v Speaker 2>on China for that. But now we've tariffed Mexico, so

0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:39.600
<v Speaker 2>we're now saying you can't even relocate to a near

0:40:39.719 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 2>ally to defend the supply chain. So we've basically reversed

0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:46.200
<v Speaker 2>any game that naturally happened after COVID. And so I'm

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:50.040
<v Speaker 2>very convinced that unless everything I know about economics is wrong,

0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:52.680
<v Speaker 2>this will not play out in his favor. Sure, the

0:40:52.719 --> 0:40:55.360
<v Speaker 2>government's going to raise a little more money in the meantime,

0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:58.280
<v Speaker 2>and then we're going to lose a lot in tax revenue,

0:40:58.320 --> 0:40:59.799
<v Speaker 2>which is something that he's not thinking.

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:08.960
<v Speaker 1>If you want to get smarter every morning with a

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:12.279
<v Speaker 1>breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:15.680
<v Speaker 1>wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. It

0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:32.720
<v Speaker 1>seems between tariffs and cozying up to Vladimir Putin, Donald

0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Trump is doing everything in his power to alienate our

0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:42.760
<v Speaker 1>allies and to reshuffle the world order. Can you figure

0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:46.720
<v Speaker 1>out why and can you talk about the consequences of this.

0:41:47.120 --> 0:41:49.520
<v Speaker 2>When you think like a narcissist. And I think narcissistic

0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:52.640
<v Speaker 2>is kind of a kind word for Trump. It's megalomania

0:41:52.760 --> 0:41:57.240
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. You cannot separate the view of the country

0:41:57.280 --> 0:41:59.480
<v Speaker 2>and the view of yourself when you're president. So there

0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:01.719
<v Speaker 2>is no interest in the country. It's all what is

0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:05.080
<v Speaker 2>in Trump's interest. He looks at somebody like Vladimir Putin,

0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:08.040
<v Speaker 2>like Kim Jong und who is living like he wants

0:42:08.080 --> 0:42:11.399
<v Speaker 2>to be, and he admires that. I think that's part

0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:12.920
<v Speaker 2>of it. I mean, there could be more to the

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Russia stuff, because I can't understand why he can't even

0:42:17.239 --> 0:42:20.080
<v Speaker 2>once utter a bad word about Russia. But let me

0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:22.560
<v Speaker 2>make the case for why this is so important. So,

0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:25.000
<v Speaker 2>the United States of America has been for the last

0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:27.840
<v Speaker 2>century basically the leader of the world. We also have

0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:31.480
<v Speaker 2>the largest economy in the world. I remember twenty years

0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.560
<v Speaker 2>ago saying that by the year twenty ten or twenty fifteen,

0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 2>China would surpass the US economy. Well, they haven't done that, okay,

0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:41.200
<v Speaker 2>and they're not actually anywhere near doing that unless we

0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:43.759
<v Speaker 2>continue to go on the path we're going on. And

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:48.160
<v Speaker 2>why is that because the trade deals that we've created,

0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:52.840
<v Speaker 2>the economic thing of like high level manufacturing, they'll be

0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:55.200
<v Speaker 2>done here. But things like socks. You know, yes, we

0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:57.279
<v Speaker 2>used to make socks, but right now it doesn't make

0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:00.400
<v Speaker 2>sense to so we'll import those. And we've got this

0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:03.319
<v Speaker 2>thing that works really well with some challenges that we

0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:05.719
<v Speaker 2>can actually fix, and we should go after unfair trade

0:43:05.719 --> 0:43:08.319
<v Speaker 2>practices with China. But let's keep this in mind. After

0:43:08.400 --> 0:43:11.759
<v Speaker 2>World War Two, the United States, after the destruction of

0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:15.120
<v Speaker 2>the industrial capacity of all of Europe and basically Japan,

0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:18.600
<v Speaker 2>the United States built back that industry here in the

0:43:18.719 --> 0:43:21.800
<v Speaker 2>United States, which is why we had a massive explosion

0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:23.799
<v Speaker 2>of industry in the forties and fifties. It was no

0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:26.440
<v Speaker 2>reason besides it was destroyed everywhere else in the world,

0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:29.640
<v Speaker 2>and we took advantage of that. That benefited the United

0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:34.120
<v Speaker 2>States of America. We also basically wrote the international institutions.

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.120
<v Speaker 2>We wrote the rules of trade, we wrote the rules

0:43:37.120 --> 0:43:40.560
<v Speaker 2>of war. We made the determination that we were going

0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:43.600
<v Speaker 2>to protect all of the seas and the transition of

0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:46.160
<v Speaker 2>the seas and the transportation on the seas, which makes

0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:49.120
<v Speaker 2>the whole signal chat insane. When they're complaining about Europe

0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:52.279
<v Speaker 2>by the way the UK and France was helping us

0:43:52.320 --> 0:43:55.440
<v Speaker 2>in the Red Sea. But when you complain about Europe,

0:43:55.440 --> 0:43:58.600
<v Speaker 2>but yet we told Europe, don't worry. The United States

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Navy will protect freedom of navigation of the seas. Why,

0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:05.360
<v Speaker 2>kindness of our heart, not really, because it's to our benefit.

0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:08.160
<v Speaker 2>So the post World War Two order, as great as

0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:11.280
<v Speaker 2>it is, and it is great for humanity, was also

0:44:11.400 --> 0:44:14.560
<v Speaker 2>written to advantage the United States. You throw that out

0:44:14.719 --> 0:44:16.840
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden, we're no different than Russia

0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:19.080
<v Speaker 2>or China, and we're going to pay a price for that.

0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:23.239
<v Speaker 1>What is the endgame with Ukraine? It's hard to keep

0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:27.400
<v Speaker 1>up with the negotiations trying to convince Vladimir Putin. I

0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:30.319
<v Speaker 1>guess he just ordered a three day ceasefire. That was

0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:34.120
<v Speaker 1>the last thing I saw. But the Trump administration trying

0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:38.399
<v Speaker 1>to get Zelensky to accept that the Russians should have

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Crimea and other territories that they have gotten during the

0:44:42.239 --> 0:44:45.680
<v Speaker 1>course of this war. Can you help us understand what

0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:48.480
<v Speaker 1>the hell is going on and what the endgame is?

0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:50.799
<v Speaker 2>Well, first off, let's say it. Where is the war

0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:53.080
<v Speaker 2>right now? And here's the thing I think we have

0:44:53.160 --> 0:44:58.120
<v Speaker 2>to always remember. Freight attacking country to win, the attacking

0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:00.799
<v Speaker 2>country has to force the defending country to capitulate in

0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:03.360
<v Speaker 2>the attacking country has to achieve its goals. For a

0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:05.680
<v Speaker 2>defending country to win the war, all they have to

0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:08.840
<v Speaker 2>do is keep defending themselves. They don't have to invade

0:45:08.880 --> 0:45:11.680
<v Speaker 2>the Ukraine doesn't have to take over Moscow. It just

0:45:11.760 --> 0:45:15.279
<v Speaker 2>has to keep defending. Ukraine is winning this war. The

0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Russians are losing at the rate of one thousand men

0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:20.759
<v Speaker 2>a day, so in a week and a half, the

0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:23.279
<v Speaker 2>Russians lose as many as we lost in twenty years

0:45:23.320 --> 0:45:26.680
<v Speaker 2>in Afghanistan. Every week and a half. They're out of

0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:30.040
<v Speaker 2>offensive combat power. All their tanks are destroyed, they're pulling

0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:32.520
<v Speaker 2>stuff out of storage from World War Two. They're attacking

0:45:32.560 --> 0:45:35.840
<v Speaker 2>with donkeys, and they're making no gains on the ground.

0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:38.680
<v Speaker 2>But Vladimir Putin wants to put out the impression that

0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:42.200
<v Speaker 2>his victory is an inevitability here and that he doesn't

0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:45.280
<v Speaker 2>want to negotiate because he's gonna win anyway. And unfortunately

0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:48.360
<v Speaker 2>the Trump administration and a lot of people watching have

0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:51.120
<v Speaker 2>bought into that theory, and they feel this panic that

0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Ukraine has to surrender now or they're gonna lose everything.

0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:56.880
<v Speaker 2>That's not the case. Now, It's also true that they're

0:45:56.880 --> 0:45:59.040
<v Speaker 2>like two boxers in the tenth round that are kind

0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:01.759
<v Speaker 2>of throwing punts at each other, but they're both exhausted.

0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:04.719
<v Speaker 2>So it is time to negotiate an endto this war.

0:46:05.040 --> 0:46:07.360
<v Speaker 2>But how do you negotiate it. Into the war, you

0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:12.200
<v Speaker 2>basically respect Ukraine's territorial integrity and to allow Ukraine to

0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:14.600
<v Speaker 2>have money to rebuild, because that's going to be the

0:46:14.600 --> 0:46:17.799
<v Speaker 2>big key. You have to give Ukraine security guarantees because

0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:20.320
<v Speaker 2>if you're a corporation and you want to invest in Ukraine,

0:46:20.560 --> 0:46:22.799
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to invest a single dollar unless you

0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:24.799
<v Speaker 2>know that war is not going to start again, and

0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:27.880
<v Speaker 2>then you're happy to invest billions into the country. In

0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:31.160
<v Speaker 2>terms of like you know, the East and Crimea. I

0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:34.040
<v Speaker 2>think it's realistic to say that at no point soon

0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:36.680
<v Speaker 2>are the Ukrainians going to, for instance, attack and take

0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:41.120
<v Speaker 2>back Crimea. That is called a de facto recognition, So

0:46:41.200 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 2>you're basically recognizing the fact that Russia is in Crimea,

0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:47.160
<v Speaker 2>let's end this war. We're not going to force them out.

0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:49.160
<v Speaker 1>And has been there since twenty fourteen.

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Correct. The difference is the Trump administration has talked about

0:46:53.719 --> 0:46:57.319
<v Speaker 2>djure recognition, which means it is the force of US

0:46:57.480 --> 0:47:00.960
<v Speaker 2>law that we recognize that CRIMEA now below belongs to Russia.

0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:03.240
<v Speaker 2>That will be one of the first times in history

0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:05.439
<v Speaker 2>we've ever done that. We never did that for any

0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:08.760
<v Speaker 2>countries occupied by the Soviet Union. So Ukraine has rightly

0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:11.600
<v Speaker 2>said this is unacceptable. And so I think we could

0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:15.360
<v Speaker 2>see a peace settlement where the lines where they are

0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:18.520
<v Speaker 2>actually become the lines. But to do that, Ukraine needs

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:24.000
<v Speaker 2>a guarantee of security and not djure recognition, de facto recognition.

0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:25.160
<v Speaker 2>So hopefully that makes sense.

0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:27.160
<v Speaker 1>And do you think that's going to happen. Do you

0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:29.000
<v Speaker 1>think progress will be made?

0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I think progress will only be made if two things happen.

0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:36.560
<v Speaker 2>If Donald Trump actually demanded anything of Russia. I mean,

0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 2>what did he say. He demanded of Russia the other day,

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.000
<v Speaker 2>that they don't take over all of Ukraine. They've been

0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:43.239
<v Speaker 2>trying for three years, trust me, they can't take over

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:46.279
<v Speaker 2>all of Ukraine. And if Europe this is key, if

0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Europe makes a decision that despite the United States, they

0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:52.279
<v Speaker 2>will stand with Ukraine, then I think you can see

0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:54.719
<v Speaker 2>that because look, Vladimir Putin's a smart guy. Let's be clear,

0:47:54.760 --> 0:47:57.640
<v Speaker 2>He's smart, he knows he can't win, he knows he's

0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:01.759
<v Speaker 2>sending his youthful generation of men to die, and ultimately

0:48:01.840 --> 0:48:04.200
<v Speaker 2>he just needs to know that he's hit a brick

0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:07.160
<v Speaker 2>wall in his mind. Right now, he can still get

0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:09.440
<v Speaker 2>more from the Trump administration, so he's going to keep

0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:09.960
<v Speaker 2>trying to do it.

0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:14.279
<v Speaker 1>Even Chuck Grassley spoke in opposition of this new relationship

0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:17.640
<v Speaker 1>with Russia. He wrote on social media he'd seen enough

0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:21.360
<v Speaker 1>killing of innocent Ukrainian women and children and said President

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Putin was playing America as a patsey.

0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Are we starting to see that sentiment grow among Republicans

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.480
<v Speaker 1>in your view? And will we start to see it?

0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, let's be clear, we saw it shrink rapidly. Now

0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:38.120
<v Speaker 2>the question is is it kind of gaining legs again

0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:40.600
<v Speaker 2>a little bit? You know, you're starting to see people

0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Tom Tillis Grassy, a few others speak out. The big

0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:46.439
<v Speaker 2>question will be what do they do with their votes?

0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Anybody can put out a generic tweet saying I generically

0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:52.279
<v Speaker 2>support Ukraine and oppose Russia. Are you going to call

0:48:52.280 --> 0:48:54.880
<v Speaker 2>it the president by name? Are you going to actually

0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:57.799
<v Speaker 2>vote against maybe some of his priorities that maybe you

0:48:57.880 --> 0:49:00.320
<v Speaker 2>agree with, but you want to use that vote is

0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:03.279
<v Speaker 2>a way to compel further aid to Ukraine. That's the

0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:06.600
<v Speaker 2>real question. Anybody can tweet anything supporting Ukraine. I'm glad

0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:08.400
<v Speaker 2>they do. Look, I don't want to discourage that. But

0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:10.200
<v Speaker 2>the question will be what do they do with the

0:49:10.239 --> 0:49:11.040
<v Speaker 2>power they do have.

0:49:11.520 --> 0:49:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Do you think the president we talked about this earlier

0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:18.240
<v Speaker 1>could run again in twenty twenty eight? Obviously can't. Steve

0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:21.879
<v Speaker 1>Bannon has talked about ways he thinks that they will

0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:25.879
<v Speaker 1>be allowed to do that within the framework of the constitution.

0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.200
<v Speaker 1>There's talk that he could run his vice president and

0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:33.439
<v Speaker 1>then the president could then seed power to him. I mean,

0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:34.880
<v Speaker 1>what do you think.

0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Look, I'll be honest, this is not a scenario I

0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:41.480
<v Speaker 2>worry about. Maybe I'm naive, but I do believe that

0:49:41.520 --> 0:49:46.120
<v Speaker 2>the constitution is very clear he can't run again. He's

0:49:46.200 --> 0:49:48.359
<v Speaker 2>it's very clear. And I think if you look at

0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:50.920
<v Speaker 2>how the Supreme Court, even though I disagree with a

0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:53.560
<v Speaker 2>lot of the recent Supreme Court decisions like the immunity

0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:56.160
<v Speaker 2>and all that kind of stuff, the Supreme Court has

0:49:56.280 --> 0:49:58.759
<v Speaker 2>kind of started to get a little pissed off. You know,

0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:01.440
<v Speaker 2>seven to two, the first time I've ever known of this,

0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:05.880
<v Speaker 2>even happening. The Supreme Court stopped the deportation flights, you know,

0:50:05.920 --> 0:50:07.880
<v Speaker 2>by a vote of seven to two. Usually the Supreme

0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Court's obviously takes a while to make a decision. Roberts

0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:14.160
<v Speaker 2>or whatever put out a preemptive statement about the respect

0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:17.320
<v Speaker 2>of the judiciary. What this says to me is that

0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:20.239
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court is now starting to get a little

0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:24.080
<v Speaker 2>jealous of their power. And so I think, look, the

0:50:24.120 --> 0:50:26.080
<v Speaker 2>one area I guess I would be concerned about him

0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:28.760
<v Speaker 2>running again, and keep in mind he'll be eighty two also,

0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:31.640
<v Speaker 2>But the one area might get a little concerned is

0:50:32.440 --> 0:50:37.080
<v Speaker 2>if somehow he convinces these hardcore red states to just

0:50:37.120 --> 0:50:40.319
<v Speaker 2>simply allow him on the ballot, then what happens, right,

0:50:41.000 --> 0:50:42.600
<v Speaker 2>That's what I don't know. So if you have let's

0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:45.439
<v Speaker 2>just take a super red state like Indiana and say,

0:50:45.560 --> 0:50:48.160
<v Speaker 2>let's say Trump is ineligible to run again, but Indiana

0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:49.880
<v Speaker 2>just says, well, he's going to be the candidate and

0:50:49.920 --> 0:50:51.640
<v Speaker 2>we put him on the ballot. Now you have a

0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:54.359
<v Speaker 2>tension between states and the federal government. So that would

0:50:54.360 --> 0:50:56.360
<v Speaker 2>be an area I'm concerned about. But in all honesty,

0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that's not the one I'm losing sleep on. I worry

0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:01.400
<v Speaker 2>about what damage is going to be done to that point.

0:51:01.640 --> 0:51:04.560
<v Speaker 1>You have renewed faith, I guess in the Supreme Court.

0:51:04.719 --> 0:51:08.160
<v Speaker 1>But it seems as if right now the administration is

0:51:08.200 --> 0:51:10.880
<v Speaker 1>ignoring the judiciary branch of the government.

0:51:11.160 --> 0:51:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I don't want to say renewed faith is Supreme Court,

0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:14.680
<v Speaker 2>but I guess, well.

0:51:14.600 --> 0:51:15.400
<v Speaker 1>You were heartened.

0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Let's say, yeah, there are a couple of things that

0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:21.040
<v Speaker 2>have been a little heartening. Yes. Look, I think the

0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:25.720
<v Speaker 2>real constitutional crisis will be the administration has already ignored

0:51:25.719 --> 0:51:29.560
<v Speaker 2>a few court rulings. The real lynchmin will be when,

0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:32.840
<v Speaker 2>and I think it will happen they ignore a Supreme

0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Court ruling. And I don't know what happens with that.

0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:38.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously the Supreme Court, I don't think is

0:51:38.040 --> 0:51:40.879
<v Speaker 2>going to sit quietly and say, Okay, well we made

0:51:40.880 --> 0:51:43.520
<v Speaker 2>our decision. If the president, you know, obviously they don't

0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:45.680
<v Speaker 2>have a police force, so they can't send anything to

0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:49.520
<v Speaker 2>enforce it, but they could be pretty loud. That's when

0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:52.359
<v Speaker 2>you get into the question of where do people's loyalties lie.

0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:55.399
<v Speaker 2>Where does the military's loyalties lie. Do the people are

0:51:55.400 --> 0:51:57.680
<v Speaker 2>they willing to take to the streets and shut down

0:51:57.840 --> 0:52:00.920
<v Speaker 2>commerce if we have to and you know, whatever it is,

0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:04.719
<v Speaker 2>we need to be thinking through. As they escalate, we

0:52:04.800 --> 0:52:07.760
<v Speaker 2>have to escalate and match. What are those different steps?

0:52:07.920 --> 0:52:11.760
<v Speaker 2>You know? Obviously short of war, nobody's calling for violence,

0:52:12.000 --> 0:52:14.680
<v Speaker 2>but like a protest every now and again, Eventually do

0:52:14.719 --> 0:52:17.400
<v Speaker 2>we get to where we have to protest permanently? Eventually?

0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:20.319
<v Speaker 2>Is it a general strike? Whatever those things are, I

0:52:20.320 --> 0:52:23.040
<v Speaker 2>think we need to be thinking through. And again, the

0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:27.000
<v Speaker 2>other message I'll say is this is not about please

0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:30.600
<v Speaker 2>hear me, everybody. This is not right against left. This

0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:35.440
<v Speaker 2>is do you support democracy or don't you? Because the

0:52:35.480 --> 0:52:38.279
<v Speaker 2>one thing when we look at Venezuela, for instance, why

0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:41.240
<v Speaker 2>is it that Maduro is still in power? It's very simple.

0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:45.960
<v Speaker 2>The opposition fought among itself and continues to because they

0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:48.879
<v Speaker 2>fight among themselves for power. This is a time when

0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:51.719
<v Speaker 2>you have to find alliance with people whose views you

0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:54.680
<v Speaker 2>may find abhorrent. But guess what we need to get

0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:57.040
<v Speaker 2>back to where we can have the luxury to disagree

0:52:57.040 --> 0:53:00.120
<v Speaker 2>on views again, because even that is a threat. This

0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:04.920
<v Speaker 2>is not right against left. This is democracy against authoritarianism. Period.

0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:07.920
<v Speaker 1>I have to ask you about AOC just while we're

0:53:07.960 --> 0:53:10.400
<v Speaker 1>on that topic, because we're also seeing a lot of

0:53:10.440 --> 0:53:15.080
<v Speaker 1>division within the Democratic Party. Nate Silver said he thought

0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:18.719
<v Speaker 1>that she would be the twenty twenty eight presidential candidate.

0:53:19.200 --> 0:53:24.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious if you could advise a Democratic Party about

0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:27.880
<v Speaker 1>a candidate for twenty twenty eight, what would you say?

0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:30.759
<v Speaker 2>It's a great question. First off, let me say this,

0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:32.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember a single and you've been covering this

0:53:32.920 --> 0:53:35.200
<v Speaker 2>for a while too. Do you ever remember at this

0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:39.360
<v Speaker 2>point in a presidential term, anybody that was ever talked

0:53:39.360 --> 0:53:41.319
<v Speaker 2>about to be the candidate in three and a half

0:53:41.400 --> 0:53:44.800
<v Speaker 2>years never was ever right, or they certainly never became

0:53:45.200 --> 0:53:48.120
<v Speaker 2>the nominee. There's some reason. It's usually the people that

0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:50.719
<v Speaker 2>pop up late. Here's what I would say to the

0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Democrats if I was giving advice when the middle when

0:53:54.840 --> 0:53:57.919
<v Speaker 2>the middle Joe Biden, you know, he kind of won

0:53:57.960 --> 0:54:00.799
<v Speaker 2>the middle. His problem was age. Let's think back to

0:54:00.840 --> 0:54:03.839
<v Speaker 2>the last Democratic candidate who kind of did it as

0:54:03.880 --> 0:54:07.239
<v Speaker 2>a centrist won the working class, Barack Obama. Yes, Bill

0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:12.120
<v Speaker 2>Clinton win the working class. My opinion, it'll take some

0:54:12.160 --> 0:54:14.520
<v Speaker 2>people off. I don't think you win the working class

0:54:14.560 --> 0:54:17.680
<v Speaker 2>by going further left. The working class turned against the

0:54:17.719 --> 0:54:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Democrats because of identity politics. I think it wasn't that

0:54:21.800 --> 0:54:24.719
<v Speaker 2>they necessarily disagreed with some of the views they have

0:54:24.880 --> 0:54:28.040
<v Speaker 2>on government spending or government programs, but they felt like

0:54:28.080 --> 0:54:31.040
<v Speaker 2>they were being talked down to. And if you're, for instance,

0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:33.879
<v Speaker 2>a middle class white male in the Midwest, and you've

0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:37.360
<v Speaker 2>been told, you know, constantly that you're the problem and everything.

0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:40.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we can have debates about where this country's

0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:42.600
<v Speaker 2>gone off the cliff and we should and our difficulties,

0:54:42.640 --> 0:54:45.560
<v Speaker 2>but everybody in this country has a right to equal

0:54:45.600 --> 0:54:48.360
<v Speaker 2>access to government and to being American. So my advice

0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:50.560
<v Speaker 2>to Democrats would be, what is it going to take

0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:53.320
<v Speaker 2>to win the middle class and to win the middle

0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:56.000
<v Speaker 2>That'll be your ticket, and I think you'll never lose

0:54:56.000 --> 0:54:58.200
<v Speaker 2>again if you do that. If you go further left,

0:54:58.520 --> 0:55:00.680
<v Speaker 2>may maybe you'll win. But the only way to win

0:55:00.760 --> 0:55:04.640
<v Speaker 2>is to turn out more and more activists. In the process,

0:55:04.680 --> 0:55:06.520
<v Speaker 2>you might actually alienate some of the folks in the.

0:55:06.520 --> 0:55:09.279
<v Speaker 1>Middle I don't think this has happened before, Adam, and

0:55:09.320 --> 0:55:13.319
<v Speaker 1>this is my last question, but every single member of

0:55:13.640 --> 0:55:17.720
<v Speaker 1>our audience asked the same question, and that was about

0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:21.640
<v Speaker 1>a potential presidential run. I'm sure this is not the

0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:24.680
<v Speaker 1>first time you've been asked this, but is it something

0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:28.800
<v Speaker 1>that you would consider for twenty twenty eight or beyond.

0:55:29.360 --> 0:55:34.160
<v Speaker 1>And my husband's follow up was, if so, what party?

0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:37.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, look, it's a great question, and honestly I don't know.

0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:40.319
<v Speaker 2>Have I thought about it. I would be lying if

0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I said I hadn't. Where I kind of look at

0:55:43.200 --> 0:55:46.480
<v Speaker 2>it is like I don't want to run just because

0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I want to be president or whatever it would be.

0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Do I think I could bring something unique that other

0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:54.879
<v Speaker 2>candidates are missing. I kind of think in a way

0:55:54.920 --> 0:55:57.840
<v Speaker 2>I could, And honestly, what would I run as? I

0:55:57.840 --> 0:55:59.880
<v Speaker 2>don't think i'd run as a Republican. I think that

0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:02.560
<v Speaker 2>party is gone, and even though I was proud of

0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:05.160
<v Speaker 2>being a Republican back when Republicans used to be what

0:56:05.200 --> 0:56:08.120
<v Speaker 2>we remember them, that party's the thing in the past.

0:56:08.520 --> 0:56:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Independent you can't win. My question would be can a

0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:15.399
<v Speaker 2>centrist Democrat win? And so I think if I did run,

0:56:15.520 --> 0:56:17.800
<v Speaker 2>that would be certainly an area I'd explore. But honestly,

0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:21.680
<v Speaker 2>haven't taken any steps, haven't made any decisions. I really

0:56:21.760 --> 0:56:25.040
<v Speaker 2>enjoy life right now. On the other side of everything, have.

0:56:24.880 --> 0:56:27.719
<v Speaker 1>You made any steps to change your party affiliation?

0:56:28.480 --> 0:56:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Not yet. I haven't voted Republican in four years, or

0:56:31.760 --> 0:56:34.799
<v Speaker 2>I guess. The last two elections, I've voted straight Democratic,

0:56:35.360 --> 0:56:37.279
<v Speaker 2>so you could look at that and that can say

0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:40.040
<v Speaker 2>what it is. But at some point I think I may.

0:56:40.320 --> 0:56:42.120
<v Speaker 2>But right now it takes them off a lot more

0:56:42.120 --> 0:56:44.440
<v Speaker 2>for me to still call myself a Republican, so I'm

0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:45.239
<v Speaker 2>going to keep doing it.

0:56:45.880 --> 0:56:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know you call yourself a what do you say,

0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:49.680
<v Speaker 1>A proud rhino.

0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, proud rhino, and that's.

0:56:52.680 --> 0:56:54.920
<v Speaker 1>That's what you're sticking with so far. But if you

0:56:55.040 --> 0:56:57.360
<v Speaker 1>make a decision to change, I hope you'll let me

0:56:57.480 --> 0:56:58.440
<v Speaker 1>talk to you, then.

0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:01.520
<v Speaker 2>I will, absolutely, absolutely, maybe we'll talk soon.

0:57:01.760 --> 0:57:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well that's quite a tease, Adam Kinzinger. Great to

0:57:05.239 --> 0:57:08.080
<v Speaker 1>talk with you, and let's stay in touch. Thank you

0:57:08.160 --> 0:57:09.160
<v Speaker 1>so much for your time.

0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:10.840
<v Speaker 2>You butt anytime, Take care.

0:57:17.040 --> 0:57:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:23.120
<v Speaker 1>a subject you want us to cover, or you want

0:57:23.160 --> 0:57:26.520
<v Speaker 1>to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:30.080
<v Speaker 1>reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

0:57:30.160 --> 0:57:33.240
<v Speaker 1>love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:37.840
<v Speaker 1>of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Katie Kuric, and Courtney ltz Our. Supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:48.160
<v Speaker 1>and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

0:57:48.200 --> 0:57:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

0:57:53.520 --> 0:57:55.880
<v Speaker 1>or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call,

0:57:56.360 --> 0:57:59.240
<v Speaker 1>go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

0:57:59.320 --> 0:58:02.520
<v Speaker 1>us at kcorrect dot com. You can also find me

0:58:02.600 --> 0:58:06.320
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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<v Speaker 1>wherever you listen to your favorite shows. What if we

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<v Speaker 1>told you it was possible to prevent, manage, your cure

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<v Speaker 1>all disease by the end of the century. The chan

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<v Speaker 1>Zuckerberg Initiative is advancing biomedical research and leveraging AI to

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<v Speaker 1>change medicine for decades to come. By bringing together science,

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<v Speaker 1>tech researchers, and engineers, they're building a better future for everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>Learn more at CZI dot com, That's CZI dot com,

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<v Speaker 1>or follow them on social media.