1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: How frightening is this to you? 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 2: Pretty frightening? And look, I'm going to steal this from 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 2: Charlie Sykes, but I think it's well said. He said, 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 2: I am not optimistic, but I am hopeful. And that's 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: how I feel, which is I look back at history 6 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 2: and I know every time we faced like dark moments, 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: we've come through them. I mean, one took a civil war, 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: but we've come through those moments and actually come out stronger. 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: Hi. Everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question. 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has been president now for one hundred days, 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: and if you listen to the polls, a lot of 12 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: Americans are very unhappy with his performance so far. One 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: of those Americans is Adam Kinsinger, former congressman and current 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: critic of the Trump administration. Adam, thanks so much for 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: joining us. It's great to see you, and we have 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: a lot to talk about. 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. I good to be with you. Yeah, we really did. 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: It's been crazy. 19 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: Now that Donald Trump has been in office for one 20 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: hundred days. How would you describe the first few months 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: of the Trump administration? 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: Well, okay, so I'll give you two different things, my 23 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: opinion versus just like objectively, how is he done. My opinion, 24 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: this is way worse than anything I imagined. I was 25 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: trying to warn the Democrats basically between Trump's victory and 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 2: inauguration day, like you guys need to get your ducks 27 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: in a row because this thing could go fast. Right. 28 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: One of my biggest frustrations, and I think this is why, frankly, 29 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: so many Democrats are upset, is because you know, Donald 30 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: Trump gets inaugurated. Doge, this fake agency Doge gets created 31 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 2: out of thin air, and then for about two weeks 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: Congress is out of session and Democrats went home and 33 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: so like all this that was going on was happening 34 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: with no opposition in place, and I think that created 35 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: a lot of fury. And for me, it bothered me 36 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: because I'm like, look, guys, we were warning you this 37 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: was going to happen. It is Project twenty twenty five. 38 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: They had the playbook out there. So his rapid advancement 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: in terms of kind of illiberalism authoritarianism has been beyond 40 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: what I even expected objectively. So taking my opinion out 41 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: and saying how is he done tactically, Well, if your 42 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: goal is illiberalism, if your goal is you know, authoritarianism, 43 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: he's done a great job getting there, right. That's that 44 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: if your goal is as strong America with strong alliances 45 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: that's respected in the world, he gets a terrible job. 46 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 2: If your goal is if your interest is the economy, 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: the US economy, he's done a terrible job. So I'll 48 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: just say this, it is really bad for the United 49 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: States of America right now. I think we can get 50 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: out of this, but I think we're in for a 51 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: few years where it's going to be rough, and frankly, 52 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: we have to have these conversations about what is lawful, 53 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: right and actually effective resistance to this. 54 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the role of the Democrats and 55 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: their failure to provide a bulwark against many of these actions. 56 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: If you could go back in time, and of course 57 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: hindsight is twenty twenty, what should the Democrats have done 58 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: in terms of organizing to create some cohesive resistance. 59 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's first important to say, look, the election. 60 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: There's this idea that it was a blowout by Trump. 61 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: It wasn't. I mean, you know, butterfly effect. If two 62 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: weeks prior a bird would have sneezed a different direction, right, 63 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: you know, Trump could have lost. It was one percent 64 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: in every one of the swing states, and one percent 65 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: can change on a dime. So it was a close election. 66 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: What could they have done between that election and inauguration 67 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: day is I think be ready for what was coming 68 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: and have a plan, plan to not go home. Look, 69 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: when you're in the minority, really this is in the House. Now, 70 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: keep in mind, actually the majority is so close that 71 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: the minority. In this case, the Democrats actually have a 72 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: little more power because they only need to peel off 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: a couple of Republicans. But generally speaking, you know, the 74 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: first time I was in the minority in the House, 75 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: one thing we learned is you're weapon is messaging and 76 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: that's it. You know, yes, you can vote no on everything, 77 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: and you will vote no on everything, but your ability 78 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: to message is what's important. So that message should have 79 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: been put together. They should have determined that when session 80 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: went out after frankly January sixth, and then after inauguration, 81 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: they should have stayed in DC. And then let me 82 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: give you an example. All of a sudden, doge is 83 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: running wild in these different agencies. Right, they should have 84 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 2: been there on day one. They eventually did it. On 85 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: day one. They should have gone to every one of 86 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 2: these agencies demanded entrance. If by then Doge would have 87 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: had their ducks together and prevented them entry, they should 88 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: have then turned around, made a big deal about it, 89 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: turned around, gone to the DC courts, and gotten a 90 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 2: court order for entry. There is no legal merit or 91 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: legal reason for a member of Congress to be denied 92 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: entry into an organization or into agency. Yeah, a federal 93 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 2: agency that they oversee that the courts would take their side. 94 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: You do those battles. You're messaging repeatedly on the floor. 95 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 2: You're messaging repeatedly to every media outlet you can, whether 96 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: it's mainstream media, even whether it's some of these podcasts. 97 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: You put your best messengers out there. And the other 98 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: thing I'll say this is just kind of generally speaking, 99 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: Democrats have to win the working class back again. And 100 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: I know within the Democratic Party I've paid attention to it, 101 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: there's this kind of battle between well, the problem is 102 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 2: we didn't turn out the left enough, you know, and 103 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 2: we shouldn't have gone after Republicans versus. I don't believe that, right. 104 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 2: I think the reality is a lot of Republicans voted 105 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: Democratic this time, but you're losing. The Democrats are losing 106 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: the working class and that was their bread and butter. 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 2: That's what they've got to get back and men, working 108 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: class and men. 109 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: And I'd love to dig into that a little bit more. 110 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: But first, don't you think the Democrats need a cohesive, 111 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: coherent message? In other words, media is so fragmented, as 112 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: you know, and it seems that not only did they 113 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: not do enough in the early days of the administration 114 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: some of the things that you've suggested, but the messaging 115 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: seems to be all over the place. And that is 116 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: one thing that Republicans and MAGA specifically has done well, 117 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: very general, easy to understand messaging and cohesive messaging across 118 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: all their messengers and all their platforms. 119 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: You know. The funny thing is, when I was in Congress, 120 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: we always thought the Democrats were better at this than us, 121 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: and honestly they were until recently. So for Democrats, again, 122 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: my advice is go back to what you used to 123 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: think on this stuff, right, you would have pretty strict messages. 124 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: Let me give you an example of a message that 125 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 2: I think can work that works for the Republicans. How 126 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: many times have we heard the term Biden crime family. Okay, 127 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 2: now you can look and say well, what are Biden's crimes. Well, 128 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: they never proved any crimes, but the moniker of Biden 129 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: crime family stuck and that made it out of just 130 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: the Fox News realm, that made it everywhere. The reality 131 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: is Trump has a crime family. I mean, you look 132 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: at the stuff that's going on with crypto, the dinner 133 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 2: he's throwing for his own meme coin, the fact that 134 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: a Chinese billionaire or millionaire who had a crypto investigation 135 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: against him had that dropped after buying some Trump crypto, 136 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: and you look through Don Junior is on the board 137 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: of Calshe, which is a political betting website. I could 138 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: go on and on. 139 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: Well, what about Dave McCormick having a huge investment in 140 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: being the member of the Senate who's overseeing crypto regulation. 141 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely that, Absolutely that. And you think of Elon Musk, right, 142 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: who's willing to go in, take a chainsaw, tell you 143 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: everything that you can live without in the federal government, 144 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: while ensuring that his SpaceX and even Tesla contracts are protected, 145 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: if not even more robust. We're continuing this mission to Mars, 146 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: which look, I'm all for trying to go to Mars, 147 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: but we're continuing this mission while we're cutting food stamps 148 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: and everything else. And so I think the issue of 149 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: corruption is not just a talking point, it's a reality. 150 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: And I honestly think if we go forward ten years 151 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: and look back on this administration, the theme that will 152 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: be a thread throughout it is corruption. It's like when 153 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: you think Nixon, you think of corruption. That's I think 154 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: that what the Democrats have got to focus on. 155 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: So how do they do that in a pithy, short 156 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: sentence or in the kind of earworm that Donald Trump 157 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: is so good at creating, for example, fake news that 158 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: became this earworm that every time there was something that 159 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: was critical of him or his administration, everyone who supported 160 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: him would accuse the media of fake news. So how 161 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: do you do one of those clever, short, catchy phrases. 162 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: Would you say, Trump crime family, give us some ideas. 163 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: I know you're not in marketing, but that's what they need, 164 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: isn't it? 165 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: It is? And so let's take the issue of fake news. 166 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: Now fake news when you think of it, now, what 167 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: you think about is Donald Trump calling the news media fake? 168 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: Do you actually know where fake news came from? It 169 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: was the idea of misinformation. It actually was fake news. 170 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: So it's when we were talking about Russian misinformation for instance. 171 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: Or you know, if somebody created a fake news website 172 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: and they wrote a fake story and then that gets 173 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 2: picked up by you know, the media or whatever. That's 174 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: what fake news was. It was legitimately fake news. He 175 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 2: took that and turned it into his thing, because he 176 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: does that just by shamelessness and repeatedly repeating things and 177 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: so to his people. And by the way, it doesn't 178 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: happen in a month. It happens in like three or 179 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: four years. That's the other thing. You've got to have 180 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 2: patience for the long game here. So I think one 181 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: example is Biden crime family is stuck. Why don't we 182 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 2: do Trump crime family or something related to that that 183 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 2: can stick Trump criminals, the criminal Trump family, the Trump 184 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: crime family, whatever it is, and stick to that message. 185 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: And understand that's going to take two to four years 186 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: to stick, but we've got to stick with it. It's 187 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: just like, look the whole idea of you know, we're 188 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: one hundred days in. Donald Trump has terrible poll numbers, 189 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: people are still upset. Forty percent of America still likes him. Okay, 190 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: let's look at what we've gained, which is he's historically unpopular. 191 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: A lot of runway in front of us. Just understand, 192 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: this stuff takes time, but you've got to be disciplined 193 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: about it, and they're very disciplined. The other side is, well. 194 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: Let's talk about these polls. The ABC Washington Post IPSOS 195 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: poll shows his approval rating is thirty nine percent. Now, 196 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: that's the lowest rating of any newly elected president at 197 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: the one hundred day mark since Dwight D. Eisenhower. And 198 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: the CNN poll just twenty two percent say they strongly 199 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: approve of his handling and the job. Forty five percent 200 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: they strongly disapprove. So when you read these polls, and 201 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: there have been a number of them that have come 202 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: out at this one hundred day mark, tell us what 203 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: you extrapolate from them. 204 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 2: So there's really two big issues within that that I 205 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 2: think should be warning science for the Republicans. Number one 206 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: is Trump always won on the issue of the economy. 207 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: He's now well, actually very significantly underwater on the issue 208 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: of the economy. Now, again, keep in mind when you 209 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: say economy, that means different things to different people. But 210 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: what it shows is Americans right now feel very anxious 211 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: about where the economy's at They did not feel this 212 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 2: way at the very beginning of January. So that's one thing. 213 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: The other thing is the issue of immigration. Donald Trump 214 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 2: was always winning on the issue of immigration. Now again immigration. 215 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 2: If you just say that to somebody, it may mean 216 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: a different thing to me than it means to you know, 217 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: even my wife. But he was always above He's now 218 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: underwater on the issue of immigration. What does that mean. Well, 219 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: people still probably want border security. I think that's pretty 220 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 2: universally desired. I also think the vast majority of Americans 221 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 2: want a pathway to legalization for folks that are here illegally, 222 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: not necessarily citizenship in the first ten years, but legalization 223 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 2: and then eventually citizenship. And so people are kind of 224 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: looking at this going okay, this like heartless deportation that's 225 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: going on. And look, it's one thing to say we 226 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: think people that are herely should be deported. Okay, that's 227 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: a defendable position. What I think is indefensible is the 228 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: White House putting out ASMR videos where they're dragging a 229 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 2: chain and they're like, isn't this amazing? Or Christy Nomes 230 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 2: going to the JLNL Salvador and standing in front of it, 231 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: so we all feel good about how terribly people are 232 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: being treated. And look, the MAGA hardcore base may love that. 233 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: Unfortunately they do, the vast majority of Americans don't. Those 234 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: are two warning signs. And if you go even deeper 235 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: within that, where Donald Trump is taking big hits are 236 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: with the youth, which he never should have won, but 237 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: he came pretty close to winning. And then specifically among Hispanics. 238 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: And it's not necessarily because of immigration that he's lost 239 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: ground with Hispanics. I think a lot of that is 240 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 2: economy related, but those are some of his biggest areas. 241 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: Let's dig into immigration for a moment, Adam, because it's 242 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: not only heartless but in many cases illegal. Can you 243 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: talk about due process and I know that many Americans 244 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: probably a theoretical term when they hear those two words, 245 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: but talk about how important it is to convey that 246 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: this is being done illegally and unconstitutionally. 247 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: Well, let me put it this way. If you're driving 248 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: in a fifty five mile an hour zone and you're 249 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: going seventy five and you get pulled over, and let's 250 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: say the penalty over nineteen miles an hour is arrest 251 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: in jail Okay, let's say you get arrested, you go 252 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: to jail. The one thing you know, even as a 253 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: law abiding citizen, is you'll have an opportunity to go 254 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 2: to court. You'll have an opportunity to maybe negotiate that down, 255 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: pay some kind of penalty or whatever. Imagine if we 256 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 2: lived in a country that said, if the police officer 257 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 2: says that you did twenty miles an hour over the 258 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 2: speed limit, you don't get a trial, you don't get 259 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: an opportunity to defend yourself. You're automatically guilty in one 260 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: year in jail. What does that do. Well, if that's 261 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: the penalty and you get pulled over for doing twenty over, 262 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: you're going to serve the time. But let's say an 263 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 2: officer just says you did twenty over and you weren't 264 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: doing it, you have no ability to defend yourself. That's 265 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: the situation when it comes to immigration. You know, look 266 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: what they do is they're taking the people that are 267 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: in generally you know, may have connections to organized crime, 268 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: maybe broke the law here besides just coming illegally, and 269 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: they're breaking due process. They're not giving due processes people 270 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: and they're saying, wait, what you want due process for 271 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: this guy who is a member of a gang. What 272 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: about you know, this person who was killed by a 273 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: gang member. This person didn't have due process. All of 274 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: that's true, But what they're doing is trying to get 275 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 2: you to focus on the badness of a person and 276 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: not the fact that everybody in the United States of 277 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: America gets a chance to plea their case. Now, very well, 278 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: if you're a member of MS thirteen, for instance, and 279 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 2: the government can prove it, you're going to probably be deported, 280 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 2: as you should be, but you should still have a 281 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: right to make your case. And look, the Constitution does 282 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: not delineate between US citizens in the United States of 283 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 2: America or any people in the United States of America. 284 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: And so when you break due process for the least 285 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: of these, like the Bible says, whatever you do for 286 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: the least of these, you do under me. Here's the 287 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: other thing, all of these little things we're doing little 288 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: steps towards authoritarianism or towards illiberalism, whatever you want to 289 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: call it. Each step in and of itself is not 290 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: enough to be outraged to the point of take to 291 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: the streets in general, strike right, But in cumulation they 292 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: are and when you say to somebody, we're gonna not 293 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: do due process for this bad person. Well, next thing, 294 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: it's okay, we're not gonna do due process because we 295 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: already did it for the bags, for the people that 296 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: are here illegally. And then well, there are enemies of 297 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: the state, and I get it, they're American citizens, but 298 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: you know they were Palestinian rallies or whatever. And then 299 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: next it's Adam Kinsinger. He's a Rhino and he went 300 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: against the president. And the next thing it's you. That's 301 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: how these little steps, each of which is not enough 302 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 2: to spark massive outrage, but in cumulation is as as 303 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: they said, you know, and again I don't want to 304 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: make comparisons to Nazi Germany, but in this case it's 305 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: a good example, which is, if in nineteen thirty five 306 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 2: they'd have opened concentration camps, the German public would have rebelled. 307 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: But if you just boil the frog to the point 308 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: where you open it in and of itself, you get 309 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 2: yourself to a point where it's not outrageous enough. 310 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: How frightening is this to you? 311 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: Uh? Pretty frightening. And look, I'm going to steal this 312 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: from Charlie Sykes, But I think it's well said, he said. 313 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: I am not optimistic, but I am hopeful. And that's 314 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: how I feel, which is I look back at history, 315 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: and I know every time we've faced like dark moments, 316 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 2: we've come through them. I mean, one took a civil war, 317 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: but we've come through those moments and actually come out stronger. 318 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: So I have no reason to believe that the American 319 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 2: people have fundamentally their DNA has changed, that we're not 320 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: going to come back out of this stronger. Three and 321 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: a half years seems like forever when you're on this 322 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: side of it, but once it's past, you look back 323 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 2: and it goes by in an instant. And I mean, 324 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: by the way, we're one hundred days in and already 325 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: millions of Americans have taken to the streets in almost 326 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: every organized town and city in this country. Those are 327 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 2: good science, but our defensive democracy is not automatic. And 328 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: that's where I'm very concerned, is, you know, we have 329 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: to step up. A judge in Wisconsin is arrested, Like 330 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: some of this stuff is outrageous and we've grown numb 331 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: to it. 332 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the arrest of that Wisconsin judge, Hannah 333 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: Dugan who was arrested by the FBI on suspicion that 334 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: she had steered an undocumented immigrant through a side door 335 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: to evade federal agents. Why is that such an outrage 336 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: in your view? 337 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: So it's two things. First Off, I didn't know it 338 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 2: was illegal to, you know, kind of hide somebody that 339 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: has not been convicted necessarily by the Feds they wanted 340 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 2: to deport them. I don't know all the details, but 341 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: is this saying that if you know somebody who's illegal 342 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 2: and they're at your house and the police come, that 343 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: it's illegal to say they're not there. That's kind of chilling, 344 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, if it's like that. But secondarily, 345 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: simply the fact that ICE in general has always kind 346 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: of had an unspoken rule or maybe spoken rule with 347 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: local jurisdictions that they won't enforce there. Because what you 348 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: want to do is first off, tell anybody that's in 349 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: the country illegally that they can still use the judicial system. 350 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: Maybe they're a victim of a crime. Right if you 351 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: have a rape victim, for instance, who's an illegal immigrant, 352 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 2: are they going to go to the law enforcement if 353 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 2: they know that ICE is camped out right there and 354 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 2: ready to deport them. And then the other thing is 355 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 2: just look, I'll say this is an old school former 356 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: Republican is like, we actually used to believe in sovereignty 357 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: of states. We actually used to believe that states had 358 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: a certain power that the federal government didn't. And so 359 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: the idea that the Feds are going to come in 360 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: and say we're going to arrest a duly elected, by 361 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 2: the way, not appointed, a duly elected judge in Milwaukee 362 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: is very chilling. And Plus, I think Carol Levitt or 363 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: somebody today or yesterday said that they wouldn't hesitate to 364 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: arrest a Supreme Court justice that they said would violate 365 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: the law. And again, the question isn't yeah, okay, if 366 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: John Roberts murdered somebody, you can arrest John Roberts. They're 367 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,479 Speaker 2: not talking about that. They are defining what is breaking 368 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: the law and what isn't. Look, I'm called a lawbreaker 369 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 2: why because I was on a committee that investigated January sixth. 370 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 2: In Donald Trump's mind, I am a criminal for investigating him. 371 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 2: So do we really want to leave them with the 372 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: power to determine what a crime is and what's arrestable. 373 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 2: That's why it's extremely chilling. 374 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: What if we told you it was possible to prevent, manage, 375 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: your cure all disease by the end of the century. 376 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: The chan Zuckerberg Initiative is advancing biomedical research and leveraging 377 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 1: AI to change medicine for decades to come. By bringing 378 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: together science, tech researchers, and engineers, they're building a better 379 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: future for everyone. Learn more at CZI dot com, that's 380 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: CZI dot com, or follow them on social media. I 381 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: have to ask you about the removal of three children 382 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: who are US citizens by Ice, as well as their 383 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: mothers from this country last Friday. One, a four year 384 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: old with stage four cancer, was sent without medication or 385 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: the ability to contact their doctors. According to their lawyer, 386 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: this is yet another major story about people lawfully living 387 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: in this country being forced to leave, another chilling example of, 388 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: to say the least, overreach by the administration. 389 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: It's complete overreach. And again, the other bigger point on 390 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 2: this is it's complete heartlessness. I mean, look, if when 391 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: you look at in essence, all the periods of American history, 392 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: even when we did pretty evil things, like the people 393 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 2: that did evil things in many cases thought they were 394 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe they thought they were doing the 395 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 2: right thing whatever. But like for us to now say, 396 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 2: you know what, we sent a kid who's an American 397 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: citizen and has stage four cancers, Oh well, their parents 398 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: shouldn't have been illegal. I mean, what does that say 399 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 2: about the heart of America? Like, that's what concerns me. 400 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 2: You know, the one thing that the United States had 401 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 2: over it that I think is better than what you 402 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: have over generic country A or B, whatever it is, 403 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 2: is that in everything we did, even when we got 404 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: it wrong. You know, when we intervened in areas we 405 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: probably shouldn't have created a war or whatever. Each time, 406 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: though we did it under the belief that we were 407 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 2: doing the right thing, or at least the American people 408 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 2: thought we were doing the right thing. We've shed now 409 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: this belief that we are a moral country, and we've 410 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: now allowed our base instincts to take over. Okay, I've 411 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 2: always said, like humanity has a battle in their heart 412 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: every year day, each one of us. Do you have 413 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: a battle of light and darkness? Right? You know you 414 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 2: have to kind of fight the divisive thoughts that the 415 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 2: negative thoughts and try to have light overcome it. But 416 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 2: darkness is so much easier to embrace. If you embrace darkness. 417 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 2: It's easy. You can let somebody else do it. You 418 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 2: can let all those really base instincts of hate, of division, 419 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 2: of fear take over and rule your life. The problem 420 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 2: is it's really destructive to you, to your family and 421 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 2: to the community. And that's where we're at as a 422 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 2: nation now, is letting those destructive tendencies take over and 423 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: that complete heartlessness. And so do they have a legal 424 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 2: right to deport a kid with an illegal mother that 425 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: maybe wants our kid to go with her? You know, 426 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: I don't. There's nuances. I don't know, but I know 427 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 2: that we were a country in the past that if 428 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: there was a legal US citizen, we certainly wouldn't deport 429 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: them and can't. And that's a big concern to me, 430 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 2: is because again you go into these like little steps 431 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 2: and what do they ultimately end up. Well, let's start 432 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 2: deporting enemies of the state, which Donald Trump's already said 433 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: he wants to do. 434 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: He does have the lowest approval rating for any president 435 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: in his first one hundred days since Dwight D. Eisenhower. 436 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: What do you think, Adam, it will take for his 437 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: hardcore magabase to flip. 438 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: If the hardcore magabase flips. It will be because of 439 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: a devastating economy, a devastating economy that you can absolutely 440 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: pin on him, right, So, all of a sudden, this 441 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: is quite possible. We have real shortages of things like 442 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 2: toilet paper. It reminds us of COVID and the supply 443 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 2: chain issues there. I mean, we're finding out that, you know, 444 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 2: shipments that are supposed to be arriving on the West 445 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: Coast are already either significantly gone or have much less 446 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,959 Speaker 2: inventory coming in. That trickle down effect to the railroads, 447 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 2: to the truckers, to the grocery store, and to the 448 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: Walgreens or Cbs is pretty devastating. You know, in rural America, 449 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: for instance, what did they do with the farm economy? 450 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: What happens there? Do we end up in a nineteen 451 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: ninety five farmedy. I mean, I was raised in the Midwest. 452 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: Mid nineties were awful for the farm economy, and it's 453 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: when a lot of the family businesses went out and 454 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 2: you saw the big corporations come in and take them over. 455 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 2: I also think though the hardcore Magas may stick with him, 456 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: you know, through thick and thin, but of the people 457 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 2: that voted for him, a significant part is the MAGA base, 458 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 2: But there's a part here that is just kind of 459 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: I've talked to a lot of them that are like, 460 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 2: I don't like him, but I didn't like Joe Biden, 461 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: and the economy was better under Trump. 462 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: And I didn't like Kamala Harris. 463 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 2: Right, And I didn't like Kamala Harris. And it's like, okay, well, 464 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: I mean you have a right to vote for Trump. 465 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 2: Those are the first that are going to go. And 466 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: I think you're already seeing them start to peel off, 467 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: which is like, yeah, maybe they didn't like some of 468 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 2: the social policies of Kamala or Biden or whatever it is, 469 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 2: but you automatically made this assumption that the economy was 470 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 2: going to be good. So it's like Maslow's hierarchy, Right, 471 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: the economy is here. If you assume that's gonna be good, 472 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: then you can start voting on these little self actualization 473 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 2: things that bother you. Right, Well, all of a sudden, 474 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 2: if the economy collapses and crumbles, you're going back into 475 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 2: the base instinctom I got to protect my family, and 476 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: I think that does a lot of damage to him. 477 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 2: He may not personally care about his approval ratings because look, 478 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 2: he's not going to run again. He may want to, 479 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 2: and he may try to. 480 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: There's certainly a lot of noise about that, Adam. 481 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: There is. I still believe in this case the Constitution 482 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 2: and the Supreme Court is actually strong enough to deny him. 483 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 2: I think where the battle could be is what happens 484 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 2: in different states when they have to make the decision. 485 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: So we can talk about that, but I think the 486 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 2: bottom line is he may not care about his polling, 487 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: but the people that will are the Republicans in Congress 488 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 2: that now, all of a sudden, this is why things 489 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 2: like town halls and protests are so important, because we 490 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: have to send a message to these members of Congress 491 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: that they should fear politically, not physically, should fear their 492 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 2: constituents more than they fear Donald Trump. Katie, I hated 493 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 2: doing town hall meetings. I hated them. Why because I 494 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 2: had to stand in front of people and just fi 495 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: what I did. I would do them, but I hated them. 496 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: That's why you have to do it. That's why your 497 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 2: member of Congress has to come in front of you, 498 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: because they work for you and they deserve to give 499 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 2: you answers. And by the way, if that whole crowd 500 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: is a bunch of people that don't like that congressman, okay, 501 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: you know what, he or she could turn out people 502 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: that support them, but those people aren't as motivated. And 503 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 2: if they're not doing town halls, force them to. And 504 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 2: if they say they're going to do a telephone town 505 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: hall instead, that's not a real town hall. You can 506 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 2: totally control a telephone town hall. That's an old trick. 507 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: By the way, I was going to ask you why 508 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: you hated doing town halls, because ostensibly you thought you 509 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: were doing the right thing and defending what you did 510 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: in Congress should not have been that difficult, was it. 511 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: So keep in mind the majority of the town halls 512 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 2: I had to do. The people that would turn out 513 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: to yell at me were kind of the far right, okay, 514 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: because at that time the Democrats in the left, they 515 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 2: may have liked me as a Republican, but they weren't 516 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: going to really support me. I always had battles with 517 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: the right. So I would have to stand in front 518 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 2: and justify why to raise the debt limit, for instance, 519 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: and they would go apoplectic and I would have to 520 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: explain to them how you have to raise a debt 521 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: limit that's just a requirement, or how you can't solve 522 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 2: the federal budget in one year. So it's not fun 523 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 2: to do. I mean, like standing in front and doing 524 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 2: it is not fun to do. But I recognized that 525 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: I got paid to do that. I got paid to 526 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 2: be accountable to the people that sent me to Washington, DC. 527 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 2: And if I didn't want to do it anymore, and 528 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: eventually I didn't want to do it anymore, and I 529 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: didn't run again of a district of seven hundred thousand people, 530 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 2: there's somebody that can replace me. 531 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: I'm just curious. You say that members of Congress have 532 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: to fear their constituents more than Donald Trump, and Lisa 533 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: Murkowski talked about that at a town hall meeting, how 534 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: fearful she was about retribution from the White House. Are 535 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: you starting to see Republican members of Congress Adam stand 536 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: up and fight against Trump and are you hopeful more 537 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: will do so in the near future. 538 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 2: It's a tough question to answer. I can't say. You know, 539 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 2: Lisa Murkowski is one of the shining stars I think 540 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 2: of Republicans that's willing to tell the truth and willing 541 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 2: to vote her conscience when I think of the House. 542 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 2: I mean, look, there's a few in there. You think 543 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 2: of people like Don Bacon or Brian Fitzpatrick specifically on 544 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: the issue of Ukraine, for instance, that are out there 545 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 2: being very aggressive on Ukraine, and so I give credit 546 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 2: to that. But at the same time, look and I go, 547 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: many of these people lived through and sat through January 548 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: sixth and sat through the investigation, put out statements about 549 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: how the investigation was somehow partisan or whatever. And so 550 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I don't really see indications that people 551 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: are willing to step up yet. I think they're so 552 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: frozen in fear. And I think the thing we have 553 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: to remember is Donald Trump still feels like a new 554 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: phenomenon to us, but he's been in the system for 555 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 2: about ten years now, and over those ten years, they've 556 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 2: been able to shake out anybody with any independent thought, 557 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 2: anybody with any courage, anybody that's willing to tell the truth, 558 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 2: and they've basically formed a party like a cult in 559 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 2: its own image. So am I hopeful that people wake up? 560 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 2: I guess, like, yeah, I want to remain hopeful, but 561 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: I guess I haven't seen many indications of that yet. 562 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 2: With Lisa Markowski being a rare exception. I just want 563 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 2: to say this too. If you're scared in the job, 564 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 2: get a different job. Like the thing is, it doesn't 565 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: pay that well. Like it pays okay, one hundred and 566 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: seventy four thousand dollars a year, which by the way, 567 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: has been the same salary since two thousand and six, 568 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: so with inflation, it's been about a thirty five percent 569 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 2: pay cut. Okay. Why do the job if you're scared? 570 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 2: Why do the job if you think you know death 571 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: threats are going to come to you and you're going 572 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: to vote a different way because of that. I mean, 573 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: I hear people say they voted against impeachment because of 574 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 2: the death threats. Like I had death threats too, Okay, 575 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: but I also recognize that my job wasn't to be 576 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: scared of death threats. It was to do the right thing. 577 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: I don't know, it just goes beyond anything I can 578 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 2: even understand. 579 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: I guess what do you think it is? Why are 580 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: they so afraid? You're right? Find out new job or 581 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: grow a pair? And the question is are they just 582 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: that addicted to power? Do they not know what else 583 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: to do with their lives? What's wrong? 584 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 2: With these people, I think you're onto it. I think 585 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: it's Look, you imagine most of these people. I was 586 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: young when I got into politics. I was thirty two 587 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 2: thirty one when I was elected, and most of these 588 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 2: people get elected at fifty sixty years old. Okay, So 589 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 2: think about that. They spent their entire life probably with 590 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: the desire to go to the House of Representatives, and 591 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 2: then they made it, right, I mean, it's a big 592 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 2: achievement to make it again. One out of seven hundred 593 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 2: thousand people serve in that body. And so now all 594 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: of a sudden, the idea of taking a stand. Maybe 595 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: that feels heroic, but you've looked at everybody that has 596 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: taken a stand, and they all have lost or gotten 597 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: kicked out right, And so you make the decision and 598 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 2: you justify it to yourself. You justified because you have 599 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: sunken costs, Like why did we stay in Vietnam? Because 600 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: we already lost ten thousand men. We can't leave now 601 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 2: right now, we've so you've already justified the the moral 602 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 2: decisions you've made, and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna stay 603 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 2: because if I leave, somebody worse is going to replace me. 604 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: The other thing is this, look, I think people fear 605 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 2: more than they fear death. They fear being kicked out 606 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: of their tribe and their social circle. And I got 607 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 2: to tell you, as a guy that's been kind of 608 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: kicked out of a tribe, there, it sucks. It hurts. 609 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 2: You lose friends, friends that you think are real, friends 610 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: that you recognize, aren't. You lose some family members over it. 611 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 2: And I mean there were points at which probably death 612 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: would have been easier than some of the things that 613 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 2: I had to go through, and these people would have 614 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 2: to go through that's a big fear too. But let 615 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 2: me just say this. I went into Congress with this 616 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 2: idea that someday, you know, if I had to go 617 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: out in a blaze of glory standing for truth, I 618 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: would do it. And I actually got an opportunity to 619 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: do it. And I got to tell you, most people, 620 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: I've learned, most people, very rarely, even in Congress, get 621 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 2: an opportunity to kind of, you know, stand against the pressure. 622 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: And those that get the opportunity, even very few are 623 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,479 Speaker 2: willing to do it. I have no regrets about it, 624 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: and I'm happy to be out now. And the only 625 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 2: regret I have is I wish I would have done 626 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 2: it louder and twice as hard. 627 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about the Pentagon has a former 628 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: Air Force pilot. You must know lots of people Adam 629 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: in the military still, and lots of people of the 630 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: Department of Defense. It sounds as if it is a 631 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: real pardon my French shit show there right now. Tell 632 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: us what you're hearing and how people feel about Pete 633 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: hegsas leadership. 634 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, and I know some of the 635 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: people that are in the news stories right now, and 636 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 2: it's I think it's for your average probably soldier that 637 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: they probably don't really care too much because to them 638 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: it's like, well, what's my mission today? Whatever. A lot 639 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 2: of my friends are kind of higher ranking officers, and yeah, 640 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: they're a little concerned about it, you know, they're bothered 641 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 2: by it. 642 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: What are they saying to you, Adam, I. 643 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 2: Think just chaos, Like what's this chaos? You know? And 644 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 2: by the way, I'm talking to some of my friends 645 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: that are like hardcore Trumpers actually that are now like 646 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 2: they haven't necessarily turned on Trump, So I don't want 647 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 2: to get people that impression, but they've kind of turned 648 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 2: on Heg Sath and been like this is just chaos 649 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: for the sake of chaos, right. They also recognize, here's 650 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 2: a big point, if any of my friends that are 651 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 2: still in the military had done on a signal chat 652 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: what heg Sath and all those people did, they'd be 653 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 2: in Leavenworth right now, or at least facing the possibility 654 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 2: of a jail sentence for that. And they recognize the 655 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: disparity and the unfairness of that. The interesting dynamic about 656 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: the military, though, is it's probably just as divided as 657 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 2: regular society is. When I was in typically the officer 658 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: corps was more Republican, about eighty percent of military officers 659 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 2: voted Republican. The enlisted was about split fifty to fifty. 660 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 2: You're actually seeing the opposite of that now, you're seeing 661 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: the enlisted core tends to be more kind of Maga 662 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: and Trump right now, and the officer court is about 663 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 2: fifty to fifty, maybe even slightly leaning Democratic. What's the reason, Well, 664 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,479 Speaker 2: because broader what you've seen as Democrats are winning college 665 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: educated and Republican aren't, and officers are you know, have 666 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: to have college degrees. The concern I have is, look, 667 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 2: the military, they've always told us our job is to 668 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: defend the Constitution not to follow the unconstitutional orders. But 669 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 2: what the early moves of the Trump administration in the 670 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: Pentagon has been to put loyalists in place and make 671 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 2: it very clear that you work for Donald Trump, not 672 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: for the Constitution. And of course, one man's constitutional defense 673 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 2: is another man's constitutional traitorism. Like what is defending the Constitution? 674 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 2: It's different with every person. So I worry about kind 675 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: of that moral morass that the Pentagon could find itself in. 676 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: Given these two signal chat incidents, what do you think 677 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: should happen to Pete heg Seth And do you think 678 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: anything will? 679 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 2: I mean, HEGs I should be out on us. But 680 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 2: the reality is this guy. You know, I feel like 681 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 2: I could be Secretary of Defense, but I also feel 682 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 2: like I would have a steep learning curve. I outranked 683 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 2: heg Seth in the military. I've been in more operations 684 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 2: than him, and I served, you know, twelve years in Congress. 685 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 2: I understand in government, this guy was a major, great 686 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 2: cool and a weekend talk show host, and all of 687 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 2: a sudden is now taking the largest, most legal organization 688 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 2: in the world, totally in over his head. He knows it. 689 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: That's what you can read it in the signal chats. 690 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: He knows he's over his head because he's doing his 691 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 2: damnedest to try to prove to everybody that he's totally capable. 692 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 2: He's got like this imposture syndrome, except it would be 693 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 2: called syndrome, except it's just he's actually an imposture. So 694 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: I think he needs to be fired and removed. And 695 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 2: I think eventually, if we fast forward to July, I 696 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 2: think he's gone. I think he'll probably stick around for 697 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 2: a little bit, so it doesn't appear that he was 698 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 2: pushed out by the Libs or whatever. But I don't 699 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 2: think he's going to last a whole lot longer. That's 700 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 2: just my prediction. 701 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about your recent substack about 702 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: the impacts tariffs and DOGE cuts are having on your 703 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: home state of Illinois, Adams, specifically among farmers in the Midwest. 704 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: I spoke with the farmer from Iowa not too long 705 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: ago that Tom Harkin connected me with, and there was 706 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: a lot of concern about the DOGE cuts, about USDA cuts, 707 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: about programs for needy school children, about subsidies, about training programs, 708 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: about all kinds of things that were impacting farmers seventy 709 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 1: seven percent of whom voted for Donald Trump. What are 710 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: you hearing from your home state. 711 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the same thing. Look, it's just the 712 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 2: twelve second budget primer. Like, you could eliminate the Department 713 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 2: of Defense and every federal agency and we would still 714 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 2: be running a budget deficit right now, which is humbling 715 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 2: to think about. One of the largest expenditures now is 716 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 2: simply interest on the debt. We're spending more in interest 717 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 2: on the debt than we are on all of defense, 718 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 2: and we are on Medicare. So the problems with the 719 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: debt and deficit have got to be structural reforms. Those 720 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 2: structural reforms are not going into programs like USAID, which 721 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 2: is less than half a percent of the budget and 722 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 2: has exponential results in terms of helping out to avoid 723 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 2: war and to basically have power outreach. And then on 724 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 2: the local, on the farm community, you know things like 725 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 2: you know, if you have a child with autism, for instance, 726 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 2: and you know you want them to have a little 727 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 2: extra help in their school district, that help comes from 728 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 2: the federal government, even though it's done by the school district. 729 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 2: You start taking programs like that away, and all of 730 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 2: a sudden you're going to see RFK Junior's little thing 731 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 2: about how you know autism is somehow makes you less 732 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 2: of a person come true, because they're not going to 733 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 2: have access to the resources they need. And for farmers, 734 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 2: you know, during the first Trump administration, when there were tariffs, 735 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 2: you know, moderately on China and a few other places, 736 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 2: and then they still gave bailouts to the farmers. Every 737 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 2: farmer I talked to said two things. Number One, the 738 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: bailouts are not enough to take into account you know, 739 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 2: how much they would have sold otherwise. And they don't 740 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: want to bail out. Who wants a bailout When you're 741 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 2: a farmer, you're obviously you want to work hard, you 742 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 2: want to see the results of your production, and you 743 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 2: want to know that what you're doing is feeding people. 744 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 2: You don't need to check from the government to make 745 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 2: sure that you just stay. I mean, you'll take it, 746 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 2: but that's not what your goal in life is. And 747 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 2: so I'm hearing the same thing, which is they're worried 748 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 2: about what the cuts are. They're worried about, you know, 749 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 2: obviously the tariffs China or somebody just said they canceled 750 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,479 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty tons of beef for one hundred 751 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 2: and fifty million tons of whatever it was, and that's 752 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 2: going to have real devastating impacts. Does that mean they've 753 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 2: turned against Trump? Not necessarily, because I think a lot 754 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: of them. I think a lot of them still believe 755 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 2: he's playing some six dimensional chess game, and it may 756 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 2: take them to actually see a little more that he 757 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 2: really doesn't know what he's doing for them to be like, Okay, 758 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 2: it's time to move on. 759 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: What happens if after a period of pain for farmers 760 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: and small businesses, somehow this tariff thing turns around and 761 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: works in his favor. I mean, that's what he's trying 762 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: to convince voters of that there is going to be 763 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,439 Speaker 1: a period of pain until things get better. Is there 764 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: any evidence that that could happen in your view? 765 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: Well, let me just say, if magically it did happen, 766 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: of course it would reflect well on him. But I 767 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 2: can confidently say it ain't gonna happen. Why because look, 768 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: here's here's a quick example. We've put tariffs on coffee imports. 769 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 2: The United States is basically physically incapable of even growing coffee. 770 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 2: We can grow a little bit in California, a little 771 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 2: bit in Hawaii. It's like one percent of what we 772 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 2: can what we drink in coffee. So we're tariffing an 773 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 2: industry that we can't even compete against. That that's pointless 774 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,280 Speaker 2: all of a sudden. You know, this idea that Donald 775 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 2: Trump wants to bring iPhone manufacturing here is insane because 776 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 2: how many people are gonna want to do a job, 777 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 2: you know, screwing little screws into an iPhone. We don't 778 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 2: have the people to do it because we do a 779 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 2: pretty low unemployment in this country, and now we're deporting 780 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 2: every immigrant that could possibly work at that place. Think 781 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 2: of it. Remember the whole eating the dogs and cats 782 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 2: in Columbus, Ohio thing. Why were there so many Haitians 783 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 2: in Columbus, Ohio because they were needed for work in 784 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: manufacturing because they needed the employees there. So it's even 785 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,479 Speaker 2: if banning manufacturing makes the idea to come back here, 786 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,439 Speaker 2: they're not going to have the people to hire. Here's 787 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,439 Speaker 2: the amazing thing is after COVID, the supply chains were 788 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,399 Speaker 2: massively realigning in the United States. Favor I actually ran 789 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 2: a bill through that said, like, we will incentivize certain 790 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 2: industries to either onshore or near shore Canada, Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, 791 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 2: right among an allied nation that we know, for instance, penicillin, 792 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,359 Speaker 2: we have access to penicillin. We don't have to rely 793 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 2: on China for that. But now we've tariffed Mexico, so 794 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 2: we're now saying you can't even relocate to a near 795 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 2: ally to defend the supply chain. So we've basically reversed 796 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 2: any game that naturally happened after COVID. And so I'm 797 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: very convinced that unless everything I know about economics is wrong, 798 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 2: this will not play out in his favor. Sure, the 799 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 2: government's going to raise a little more money in the meantime, 800 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 2: and then we're going to lose a lot in tax revenue, 801 00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 2: which is something that he's not thinking. 802 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a 803 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and 804 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 805 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. It 806 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: seems between tariffs and cozying up to Vladimir Putin, Donald 807 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: Trump is doing everything in his power to alienate our 808 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 1: allies and to reshuffle the world order. Can you figure 809 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,720 Speaker 1: out why and can you talk about the consequences of this. 810 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 2: When you think like a narcissist. And I think narcissistic 811 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 2: is kind of a kind word for Trump. It's megalomania 812 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 2: or whatever. You cannot separate the view of the country 813 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 2: and the view of yourself when you're president. So there 814 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 2: is no interest in the country. It's all what is 815 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 2: in Trump's interest. He looks at somebody like Vladimir Putin, 816 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 2: like Kim Jong und who is living like he wants 817 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 2: to be, and he admires that. I think that's part 818 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 2: of it. I mean, there could be more to the 819 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,720 Speaker 2: Russia stuff, because I can't understand why he can't even 820 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 2: once utter a bad word about Russia. But let me 821 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 2: make the case for why this is so important. So, 822 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 2: the United States of America has been for the last 823 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 2: century basically the leader of the world. We also have 824 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 2: the largest economy in the world. I remember twenty years 825 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 2: ago saying that by the year twenty ten or twenty fifteen, 826 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 2: China would surpass the US economy. Well, they haven't done that, okay, 827 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 2: and they're not actually anywhere near doing that unless we 828 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 2: continue to go on the path we're going on. And 829 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 2: why is that because the trade deals that we've created, 830 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 2: the economic thing of like high level manufacturing, they'll be 831 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 2: done here. But things like socks. You know, yes, we 832 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 2: used to make socks, but right now it doesn't make 833 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 2: sense to so we'll import those. And we've got this 834 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 2: thing that works really well with some challenges that we 835 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 2: can actually fix, and we should go after unfair trade 836 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 2: practices with China. But let's keep this in mind. After 837 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 2: World War Two, the United States, after the destruction of 838 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 2: the industrial capacity of all of Europe and basically Japan, 839 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 2: the United States built back that industry here in the 840 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,800 Speaker 2: United States, which is why we had a massive explosion 841 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 2: of industry in the forties and fifties. It was no 842 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 2: reason besides it was destroyed everywhere else in the world, 843 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 2: and we took advantage of that. That benefited the United 844 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 2: States of America. We also basically wrote the international institutions. 845 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 2: We wrote the rules of trade, we wrote the rules 846 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 2: of war. We made the determination that we were going 847 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 2: to protect all of the seas and the transition of 848 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 2: the seas and the transportation on the seas, which makes 849 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 2: the whole signal chat insane. When they're complaining about Europe 850 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 2: by the way the UK and France was helping us 851 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 2: in the Red Sea. But when you complain about Europe, 852 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 2: but yet we told Europe, don't worry. The United States 853 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 2: Navy will protect freedom of navigation of the seas. Why, 854 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 2: kindness of our heart, not really, because it's to our benefit. 855 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 2: So the post World War Two order, as great as 856 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,280 Speaker 2: it is, and it is great for humanity, was also 857 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 2: written to advantage the United States. You throw that out 858 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, we're no different than Russia 859 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 2: or China, and we're going to pay a price for that. 860 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: What is the endgame with Ukraine? It's hard to keep 861 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: up with the negotiations trying to convince Vladimir Putin. I 862 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: guess he just ordered a three day ceasefire. That was 863 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: the last thing I saw. But the Trump administration trying 864 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,399 Speaker 1: to get Zelensky to accept that the Russians should have 865 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: Crimea and other territories that they have gotten during the 866 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: course of this war. Can you help us understand what 867 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: the hell is going on and what the endgame is? 868 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 2: Well, first off, let's say it. Where is the war 869 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 2: right now? And here's the thing I think we have 870 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 2: to always remember. Freight attacking country to win, the attacking 871 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,799 Speaker 2: country has to force the defending country to capitulate in 872 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 2: the attacking country has to achieve its goals. For a 873 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 2: defending country to win the war, all they have to 874 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 2: do is keep defending themselves. They don't have to invade 875 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 2: the Ukraine doesn't have to take over Moscow. It just 876 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 2: has to keep defending. Ukraine is winning this war. The 877 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 2: Russians are losing at the rate of one thousand men 878 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 2: a day, so in a week and a half, the 879 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,279 Speaker 2: Russians lose as many as we lost in twenty years 880 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 2: in Afghanistan. Every week and a half. They're out of 881 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 2: offensive combat power. All their tanks are destroyed, they're pulling 882 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 2: stuff out of storage from World War Two. They're attacking 883 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 2: with donkeys, and they're making no gains on the ground. 884 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 2: But Vladimir Putin wants to put out the impression that 885 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 2: his victory is an inevitability here and that he doesn't 886 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,280 Speaker 2: want to negotiate because he's gonna win anyway. And unfortunately 887 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,360 Speaker 2: the Trump administration and a lot of people watching have 888 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 2: bought into that theory, and they feel this panic that 889 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 2: Ukraine has to surrender now or they're gonna lose everything. 890 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,880 Speaker 2: That's not the case. Now, It's also true that they're 891 00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 2: like two boxers in the tenth round that are kind 892 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,759 Speaker 2: of throwing punts at each other, but they're both exhausted. 893 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 2: So it is time to negotiate an endto this war. 894 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 2: But how do you negotiate it. Into the war, you 895 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 2: basically respect Ukraine's territorial integrity and to allow Ukraine to 896 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 2: have money to rebuild, because that's going to be the 897 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,799 Speaker 2: big key. You have to give Ukraine security guarantees because 898 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,320 Speaker 2: if you're a corporation and you want to invest in Ukraine, 899 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,799 Speaker 2: you're not going to invest a single dollar unless you 900 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 2: know that war is not going to start again, and 901 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 2: then you're happy to invest billions into the country. In 902 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 2: terms of like you know, the East and Crimea. I 903 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 2: think it's realistic to say that at no point soon 904 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 2: are the Ukrainians going to, for instance, attack and take 905 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 2: back Crimea. That is called a de facto recognition, So 906 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 2: you're basically recognizing the fact that Russia is in Crimea, 907 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 2: let's end this war. We're not going to force them out. 908 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: And has been there since twenty fourteen. 909 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 2: Correct. The difference is the Trump administration has talked about 910 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,319 Speaker 2: djure recognition, which means it is the force of US 911 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 2: law that we recognize that CRIMEA now below belongs to Russia. 912 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,240 Speaker 2: That will be one of the first times in history 913 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,439 Speaker 2: we've ever done that. We never did that for any 914 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,760 Speaker 2: countries occupied by the Soviet Union. So Ukraine has rightly 915 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 2: said this is unacceptable. And so I think we could 916 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 2: see a peace settlement where the lines where they are 917 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 2: actually become the lines. But to do that, Ukraine needs 918 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 2: a guarantee of security and not djure recognition, de facto recognition. 919 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 2: So hopefully that makes sense. 920 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: And do you think that's going to happen. Do you 921 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: think progress will be made? 922 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 2: I think progress will only be made if two things happen. 923 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 2: If Donald Trump actually demanded anything of Russia. I mean, 924 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 2: what did he say. He demanded of Russia the other day, 925 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 2: that they don't take over all of Ukraine. They've been 926 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 2: trying for three years, trust me, they can't take over 927 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 2: all of Ukraine. And if Europe this is key, if 928 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 2: Europe makes a decision that despite the United States, they 929 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,279 Speaker 2: will stand with Ukraine, then I think you can see 930 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,719 Speaker 2: that because look, Vladimir Putin's a smart guy. Let's be clear, 931 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 2: He's smart, he knows he can't win, he knows he's 932 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 2: sending his youthful generation of men to die, and ultimately 933 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 2: he just needs to know that he's hit a brick 934 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 2: wall in his mind. Right now, he can still get 935 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 2: more from the Trump administration, so he's going to keep 936 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 2: trying to do it. 937 00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,279 Speaker 1: Even Chuck Grassley spoke in opposition of this new relationship 938 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: with Russia. He wrote on social media he'd seen enough 939 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: killing of innocent Ukrainian women and children and said President 940 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: Putin was playing America as a patsey. 941 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 942 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: Are we starting to see that sentiment grow among Republicans 943 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,480 Speaker 1: in your view? And will we start to see it? 944 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 2: Well, let's be clear, we saw it shrink rapidly. Now 945 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 2: the question is is it kind of gaining legs again 946 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 2: a little bit? You know, you're starting to see people 947 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 2: Tom Tillis Grassy, a few others speak out. The big 948 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,439 Speaker 2: question will be what do they do with their votes? 949 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 2: Anybody can put out a generic tweet saying I generically 950 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,279 Speaker 2: support Ukraine and oppose Russia. Are you going to call 951 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 2: it the president by name? Are you going to actually 952 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,799 Speaker 2: vote against maybe some of his priorities that maybe you 953 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,320 Speaker 2: agree with, but you want to use that vote is 954 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 2: a way to compel further aid to Ukraine. That's the 955 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 2: real question. Anybody can tweet anything supporting Ukraine. I'm glad 956 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 2: they do. Look, I don't want to discourage that. But 957 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 2: the question will be what do they do with the 958 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 2: power they do have. 959 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,280 Speaker 1: Do you think the president we talked about this earlier 960 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,240 Speaker 1: could run again in twenty twenty eight? Obviously can't. Steve 961 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,879 Speaker 1: Bannon has talked about ways he thinks that they will 962 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,879 Speaker 1: be allowed to do that within the framework of the constitution. 963 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: There's talk that he could run his vice president and 964 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,439 Speaker 1: then the president could then seed power to him. I mean, 965 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:34,880 Speaker 1: what do you think. 966 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 2: Look, I'll be honest, this is not a scenario I 967 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 2: worry about. Maybe I'm naive, but I do believe that 968 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 2: the constitution is very clear he can't run again. He's 969 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,359 Speaker 2: it's very clear. And I think if you look at 970 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,920 Speaker 2: how the Supreme Court, even though I disagree with a 971 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,560 Speaker 2: lot of the recent Supreme Court decisions like the immunity 972 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, the Supreme Court has 973 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,759 Speaker 2: kind of started to get a little pissed off. You know, 974 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,440 Speaker 2: seven to two, the first time I've ever known of this, 975 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,880 Speaker 2: even happening. The Supreme Court stopped the deportation flights, you know, 976 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,880 Speaker 2: by a vote of seven to two. Usually the Supreme 977 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 2: Court's obviously takes a while to make a decision. Roberts 978 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 2: or whatever put out a preemptive statement about the respect 979 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,320 Speaker 2: of the judiciary. What this says to me is that 980 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court is now starting to get a little 981 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 2: jealous of their power. And so I think, look, the 982 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 2: one area I guess I would be concerned about him 983 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,760 Speaker 2: running again, and keep in mind he'll be eighty two also, 984 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 2: But the one area might get a little concerned is 985 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 2: if somehow he convinces these hardcore red states to just 986 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,319 Speaker 2: simply allow him on the ballot, then what happens, right, 987 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 2: That's what I don't know. So if you have let's 988 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,439 Speaker 2: just take a super red state like Indiana and say, 989 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,160 Speaker 2: let's say Trump is ineligible to run again, but Indiana 990 00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:49,880 Speaker 2: just says, well, he's going to be the candidate and 991 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,640 Speaker 2: we put him on the ballot. Now you have a 992 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,359 Speaker 2: tension between states and the federal government. So that would 993 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,360 Speaker 2: be an area I'm concerned about. But in all honesty, 994 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 2: that's not the one I'm losing sleep on. I worry 995 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 2: about what damage is going to be done to that point. 996 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,560 Speaker 1: You have renewed faith, I guess in the Supreme Court. 997 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 1: But it seems as if right now the administration is 998 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,880 Speaker 1: ignoring the judiciary branch of the government. 999 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't want to say renewed faith is Supreme Court, 1000 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 2: but I guess, well. 1001 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:15,400 Speaker 1: You were heartened. 1002 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,600 Speaker 2: Let's say, yeah, there are a couple of things that 1003 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 2: have been a little heartening. Yes. Look, I think the 1004 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,720 Speaker 2: real constitutional crisis will be the administration has already ignored 1005 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 2: a few court rulings. The real lynchmin will be when, 1006 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,840 Speaker 2: and I think it will happen they ignore a Supreme 1007 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,440 Speaker 2: Court ruling. And I don't know what happens with that. 1008 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously the Supreme Court, I don't think is 1009 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,879 Speaker 2: going to sit quietly and say, Okay, well we made 1010 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 2: our decision. If the president, you know, obviously they don't 1011 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 2: have a police force, so they can't send anything to 1012 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,520 Speaker 2: enforce it, but they could be pretty loud. That's when 1013 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,359 Speaker 2: you get into the question of where do people's loyalties lie. 1014 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,399 Speaker 2: Where does the military's loyalties lie. Do the people are 1015 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 2: they willing to take to the streets and shut down 1016 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,920 Speaker 2: commerce if we have to and you know, whatever it is, 1017 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 2: we need to be thinking through. As they escalate, we 1018 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,760 Speaker 2: have to escalate and match. What are those different steps? 1019 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,760 Speaker 2: You know? Obviously short of war, nobody's calling for violence, 1020 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 2: but like a protest every now and again, Eventually do 1021 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,400 Speaker 2: we get to where we have to protest permanently? Eventually? 1022 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,319 Speaker 2: Is it a general strike? Whatever those things are, I 1023 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,040 Speaker 2: think we need to be thinking through. And again, the 1024 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,000 Speaker 2: other message I'll say is this is not about please 1025 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,600 Speaker 2: hear me, everybody. This is not right against left. This 1026 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:35,440 Speaker 2: is do you support democracy or don't you? Because the 1027 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,279 Speaker 2: one thing when we look at Venezuela, for instance, why 1028 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,240 Speaker 2: is it that Maduro is still in power? It's very simple. 1029 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 2: The opposition fought among itself and continues to because they 1030 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,879 Speaker 2: fight among themselves for power. This is a time when 1031 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,719 Speaker 2: you have to find alliance with people whose views you 1032 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,680 Speaker 2: may find abhorrent. But guess what we need to get 1033 00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,040 Speaker 2: back to where we can have the luxury to disagree 1034 00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,120 Speaker 2: on views again, because even that is a threat. This 1035 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,920 Speaker 2: is not right against left. This is democracy against authoritarianism. Period. 1036 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: I have to ask you about AOC just while we're 1037 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 1: on that topic, because we're also seeing a lot of 1038 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: division within the Democratic Party. Nate Silver said he thought 1039 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,719 Speaker 1: that she would be the twenty twenty eight presidential candidate. 1040 00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 1: I'm curious if you could advise a Democratic Party about 1041 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,880 Speaker 1: a candidate for twenty twenty eight, what would you say? 1042 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 2: It's a great question. First off, let me say this, 1043 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,880 Speaker 2: I don't remember a single and you've been covering this 1044 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,200 Speaker 2: for a while too. Do you ever remember at this 1045 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,360 Speaker 2: point in a presidential term, anybody that was ever talked 1046 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,319 Speaker 2: about to be the candidate in three and a half 1047 00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,800 Speaker 2: years never was ever right, or they certainly never became 1048 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 2: the nominee. There's some reason. It's usually the people that 1049 00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,719 Speaker 2: pop up late. Here's what I would say to the 1050 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 2: Democrats if I was giving advice when the middle when 1051 00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,919 Speaker 2: the middle Joe Biden, you know, he kind of won 1052 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,799 Speaker 2: the middle. His problem was age. Let's think back to 1053 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,839 Speaker 2: the last Democratic candidate who kind of did it as 1054 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,239 Speaker 2: a centrist won the working class, Barack Obama. Yes, Bill 1055 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:12,120 Speaker 2: Clinton win the working class. My opinion, it'll take some 1056 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,520 Speaker 2: people off. I don't think you win the working class 1057 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 2: by going further left. The working class turned against the 1058 00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 2: Democrats because of identity politics. I think it wasn't that 1059 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,719 Speaker 2: they necessarily disagreed with some of the views they have 1060 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,040 Speaker 2: on government spending or government programs, but they felt like 1061 00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 2: they were being talked down to. And if you're, for instance, 1062 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,879 Speaker 2: a middle class white male in the Midwest, and you've 1063 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,360 Speaker 2: been told, you know, constantly that you're the problem and everything. 1064 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 2: I mean, we can have debates about where this country's 1065 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 2: gone off the cliff and we should and our difficulties, 1066 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,560 Speaker 2: but everybody in this country has a right to equal 1067 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,360 Speaker 2: access to government and to being American. So my advice 1068 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 2: to Democrats would be, what is it going to take 1069 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,320 Speaker 2: to win the middle class and to win the middle 1070 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,000 Speaker 2: That'll be your ticket, and I think you'll never lose 1071 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,200 Speaker 2: again if you do that. If you go further left, 1072 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,680 Speaker 2: may maybe you'll win. But the only way to win 1073 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,640 Speaker 2: is to turn out more and more activists. In the process, 1074 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,520 Speaker 2: you might actually alienate some of the folks in the. 1075 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,279 Speaker 1: Middle I don't think this has happened before, Adam, and 1076 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,319 Speaker 1: this is my last question, but every single member of 1077 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,720 Speaker 1: our audience asked the same question, and that was about 1078 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,640 Speaker 1: a potential presidential run. I'm sure this is not the 1079 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,680 Speaker 1: first time you've been asked this, but is it something 1080 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,800 Speaker 1: that you would consider for twenty twenty eight or beyond. 1081 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:34,160 Speaker 1: And my husband's follow up was, if so, what party? 1082 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's a great question, and honestly I don't know. 1083 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,319 Speaker 2: Have I thought about it. I would be lying if 1084 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,160 Speaker 2: I said I hadn't. Where I kind of look at 1085 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 2: it is like I don't want to run just because 1086 00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,080 Speaker 2: I want to be president or whatever it would be. 1087 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,080 Speaker 2: Do I think I could bring something unique that other 1088 00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,879 Speaker 2: candidates are missing. I kind of think in a way 1089 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,840 Speaker 2: I could, And honestly, what would I run as? I 1090 00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,880 Speaker 2: don't think i'd run as a Republican. I think that 1091 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 2: party is gone, and even though I was proud of 1092 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 2: being a Republican back when Republicans used to be what 1093 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 2: we remember them, that party's the thing in the past. 1094 00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,319 Speaker 2: Independent you can't win. My question would be can a 1095 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,399 Speaker 2: centrist Democrat win? And so I think if I did run, 1096 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,800 Speaker 2: that would be certainly an area I'd explore. But honestly, 1097 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,680 Speaker 2: haven't taken any steps, haven't made any decisions. I really 1098 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 2: enjoy life right now. On the other side of everything, have. 1099 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,719 Speaker 1: You made any steps to change your party affiliation? 1100 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,640 Speaker 2: Not yet. I haven't voted Republican in four years, or 1101 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,799 Speaker 2: I guess. The last two elections, I've voted straight Democratic, 1102 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,279 Speaker 2: so you could look at that and that can say 1103 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,040 Speaker 2: what it is. But at some point I think I may. 1104 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,120 Speaker 2: But right now it takes them off a lot more 1105 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,440 Speaker 2: for me to still call myself a Republican, so I'm 1106 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:45,239 Speaker 2: going to keep doing it. 1107 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,719 Speaker 1: Well, I know you call yourself a what do you say, 1108 00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:49,680 Speaker 1: A proud rhino. 1109 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, proud rhino, and that's. 1110 00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,920 Speaker 1: That's what you're sticking with so far. But if you 1111 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,360 Speaker 1: make a decision to change, I hope you'll let me 1112 00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,440 Speaker 1: talk to you, then. 1113 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,520 Speaker 2: I will, absolutely, absolutely, maybe we'll talk soon. 1114 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,160 Speaker 1: Okay, well that's quite a tease, Adam Kinzinger. Great to 1115 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,080 Speaker 1: talk with you, and let's stay in touch. Thank you 1116 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:09,160 Speaker 1: so much for your time. 1117 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:10,840 Speaker 2: You butt anytime, Take care. 1118 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, 1119 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,120 Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want 1120 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,520 Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, 1121 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,080 Speaker 1: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would 1122 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,240 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production 1123 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,840 Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me, 1124 00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,800 Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney ltz Our. Supervising producer is Ryan Martz, 1125 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian 1126 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:53,320 Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, 1127 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call, 1128 00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,240 Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit 1129 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,520 Speaker 1: us at kcorrect dot com. You can also find me 1130 00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,320 Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more 1131 00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 1132 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:16,280 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 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