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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Sunday, June twelve, The Outskirts

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Speaker 1: of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Three little girls at Scout Camp, ages eight, nine,

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Speaker 1: and ten huddled in their tent when lightning cracks through

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Speaker 1: the air. That night. The three Girl Scouts, Laurie Lee Farmer,

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Speaker 1: Doris Denise Milner, and Michelle Heather Goosey dragged from their

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Speaker 1: tent and murdered. But why, I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here on

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Serious eleven today and all this week

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Speaker 1: we follow the exclusive new Fox Nations series The Girls

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Speaker 1: Scout Murders. Take a listen to this. These woods in

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Speaker 1: northeastern Oklahoma are the site of one of the worst

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Speaker 1: crimes imaginable. Two busloads of Girl Scouts left Tulsa headed

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Speaker 1: for Camp Scott, a girl Scout retreat located on the

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Speaker 1: Cherokee Reservation some fifty miles away. Among the girls were

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Speaker 1: ten year old Denise Milner, nine year old Michelle Gouse

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Speaker 1: an eight year old Laurie Farmer. What happened next is unthinkable.

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Speaker 1: Three young girls being sexually assaulted, murdered. There are children's

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Speaker 1: names you always remember Laurie and Anisa, Michelle. They're there

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Speaker 1: and they're never going to go away, never going to

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Speaker 1: go away. Those names forever ingrained in our memories. But

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Speaker 1: what happened, What happened that night? Again, I'm Nancy Grayson,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us,

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Speaker 1: with me and All Star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know right now. But first I'm want to

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Speaker 1: go out to a special guest, Carla will Hide, former

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Speaker 1: camp counselor there at the campgrounds at the time of

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Speaker 1: this triple homicide. Carla, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy. Carla tell me, first of all, I

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Speaker 1: dropped my twins at Scout camp every year for a

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Speaker 1: Scout summer camp, to earn their merit badges, to work

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Speaker 1: toward Eagle. As a matter of fact, this particular case

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Speaker 1: had me so scared I forced my husband to join

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Speaker 1: me to train. It's a volunteer and go to Scout

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Speaker 1: camp and stay there. It's sleeping on the ground in

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Speaker 1: a tent the entire first year of Scout camp. Of course,

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Speaker 1: they had nothing but a wonderful time. But I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to the time that these girls were

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Speaker 1: at Girl Scout camp. Tell me about the camp itself. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a beautiful property in northeastern Oklahoma, in what we

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Speaker 1: call the Green Country. And I had spent every summer

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Speaker 1: there from nineteen seventy one through till nineteen seventy seven

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Speaker 1: and started out as a camper and became a counselor

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Speaker 1: and training and was really excited to start my first

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Speaker 1: year as a counselor. The camp is just beautiful. It's

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Speaker 1: in the rolling hills, forested, just beautiful greens, tall trees.

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Speaker 1: There's just nothing like it. Crystal clear streams running through

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Speaker 1: the property. It was just every year was like going home.

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Speaker 1: And you know, back in nineteen seventy seven, security was

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Speaker 1: a lot different for scouting, and you know now as

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Speaker 1: much as you depicted, it need a lot of volunteers

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Speaker 1: to be there to watch out and make sure the

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Speaker 1: kids are safe. It's interesting that you just said that

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Speaker 1: Carlo will Hi Carlos with me, former camp counselor at

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Speaker 1: this camp. During this time period, when I take the

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Speaker 1: twins to camp there or and when I camp there

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Speaker 1: myself with them as a volunteer, there were just as

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Speaker 1: many parents as there were scouts, and we were all

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Speaker 1: around position in tents around the children. My husband went

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Speaker 1: to my son's camp site, and I went to my daughters.

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Speaker 1: I also was a camp counselor. And when you said

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Speaker 1: it feels like coming home, that's exactly what it feels like.

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Speaker 1: We were in a beautiful national forest and there was

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Speaker 1: There's nothing like it. I still think about it. How

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Speaker 1: has this incident changed your memories? Well, you know, for

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Speaker 1: a long time, it changed my memories for the worst.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just remembered the murders and the aftermath.

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Speaker 1: But over the years, as you know, I've recovered from

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Speaker 1: the trauma, and I imagine that it did take years.

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Speaker 1: What is Camp Scott like? Take a listen to this,

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Speaker 1: just like it is today, I mean exactly like it was.

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Speaker 1: The sounds, smells, It's just beautiful place to be. About

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Speaker 1: four hundred and ten acres in total, so it was vast.

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Speaker 1: There was one road in and one paper road out,

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Speaker 1: one road in and one road out. Let's backtrack to

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Speaker 1: our cut one. What happened? Two busloads of girl Scouts

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Speaker 1: left Tulsa headed for Camp Scott, a girl Scout retreat

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Speaker 1: located on the Cherokee Reservation some fifty miles away. Among

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Speaker 1: the girls were ten year old Denise Milner, nine year

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Speaker 1: old Michelle Gouse an eight year old Laurie Farmer. What

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Speaker 1: happened next is unthinkable. Three young girls beaten, sexually assaulted, murdered.

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Speaker 1: There are children's names you always remember, Laurie and denisea Michelle.

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Speaker 1: They're there and they're never going to go away with me.

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Speaker 1: Is Fate Phillips, Cherokee screenwriter and author of Now I

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Speaker 1: Lay Me Down Faith. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: way in on the area and the camp and that

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Speaker 1: night the three girls were drive from their tents and murdered. Well,

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Speaker 1: that night, it was a really stormy night. It started

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Speaker 1: out a beautiful day, as Carla will Height described so well,

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Speaker 1: a beautiful day in the Cherokee Nation, and then eventually

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Speaker 1: the storm. There's Oklahoma's famous for our thunderstorms and our tornadoes.

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Speaker 1: But that night a huge thunderstorm rolled in, and so

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Speaker 1: it changed the plans of all of the campers. So

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Speaker 1: they all huddled in the Great Hall, which is where

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Speaker 1: they went to eat in the evening around seven pm,

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Speaker 1: and they went out on the porch and they just

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Speaker 1: kept waiting for the storm to pass, and girls were

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Speaker 1: out singing and singing they called it Singing Porch, and

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Speaker 1: the rain just kept falling in the thunder kept rolling,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually it did pass, but it had been

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Speaker 1: such a great thunderstorm that the leaves were still dripping

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Speaker 1: with rain, and so rather than continue with their regular

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Speaker 1: activities that they would have normally done, and the girls

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Speaker 1: just all went back into their tent. Yeah, I could

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Speaker 1: see that, you know. I was just thinking about what

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Speaker 1: Carl will hit and Faith Phillips was saying about this

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Speaker 1: idyllic setting, and I want to go to Doctor Sean Robertson,

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Speaker 1: Licensed Psychologists joining us out of Edmund, Oklahoma, Professor a

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Speaker 1: Forensics Science Institute in Psychology Department, University Central Oklahoma at

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Speaker 1: doctor Seawan Robertson dot com. Doctor thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. The dichotomy of such a beautiful camp where

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Speaker 1: parents feel safe in leaving their children at these ages eight,

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Speaker 1: nine and ten. This is probably the first time some

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Speaker 1: of these girls have ever slept away from home before. Well,

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Speaker 1: the setting of where crimes can happen as really anywhere,

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Speaker 1: as you know, you can't necessarily feel safe just because

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Speaker 1: the setting is Christine absolutely to Joe Scott Morgan joining me,

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Speaker 1: Professor forensics Jacksonall State University and author of Blood Beneath

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Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott the dichotomy of when

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Speaker 1: you think you're leaving your child somewhere safe in this

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Speaker 1: bucolic setting, only to get that call in the night

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Speaker 1: it's something horrible has happened. I mean, it's not like

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Speaker 1: I'm you have a child living going to school in

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Speaker 1: inner city of New York City or inner city Chicago.

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Speaker 1: There you know there's a very high crime rate, not

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Speaker 1: that you want it to happen, but it's likely to happen.

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Speaker 1: But in a place like this on the outskirts of Tulsa, Oklahoma,

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Speaker 1: at a girl's Scout camp. Joe Scott, Yeah, you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the word be colic. There's something I like to mention

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Speaker 1: many times when I'm speaking to folks and teaching, and

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Speaker 1: that is, as investigators, we often have to view and

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Speaker 1: assess the abnormal in the context of the normal. And

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Speaker 1: it's a real shock to your system many times, because

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of us out here, myself included,

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Speaker 1: that went to camp when we were kids. Can you

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Speaker 1: imagine being an investigator and having to figure this out?

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Speaker 1: And plus it's isolated uhha, very important Joe Scott as

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Speaker 1: to the mind of the killer and the way a

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Speaker 1: scene is processed. The isolation of this camp adds in

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Speaker 1: a whole another factor crime stories with Nancy Grace back

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Speaker 1: to you, Carla will hide Scout camp counselor there at

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Speaker 1: Camp Scott. What do you recall about that evening? All

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Speaker 1: the girls go to their tents after unexpected rain. Then

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Speaker 1: what happens when we got back to our unit, Kayla,

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Speaker 1: been quite a bit of time just trying to dry off.

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Speaker 1: As Faith mentioned, the trees were just dripping rain. We

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Speaker 1: put the tent flaps down just in case it, you know,

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Speaker 1: continued to rain and helped the girls kind of get

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Speaker 1: settled in, and you know, from there it was just

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Speaker 1: kind of a lively evening. You've got girls giggling, shrieking, flashlights,

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Speaker 1: you know, shine in every witch direction, counselors getting tired

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Speaker 1: and sleepy, and you know it's time to go to bed.

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Speaker 1: And we finally got everybody settled down and everything got

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Speaker 1: you know, really quiet. Were they having at the time

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Speaker 1: of cracker barrels that's what they call now anyway, after

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Speaker 1: the Scouts finish all their classes and what they're doing

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Speaker 1: during the day. They go back to their tent site,

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Speaker 1: but you're talking about Carla, and they have the giggling

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Speaker 1: and the flashlights and snacks and drinks and kind of

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Speaker 1: a little scout party, and then they go to bed. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: imagine everybody being in high spirits. And then after they

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Speaker 1: go to their tents, you still see a lot of

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Speaker 1: flashlights in there and giggling and laughter or in a

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Speaker 1: couple of screams, and then somehow, mysteriously everything suddenly gets quiet.

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Speaker 1: And I imagine that's what happened that night. Absolutely that

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Speaker 1: paints a perfect picture of it. Who are these three

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Speaker 1: little girls? Just think about it? Ages eight, nine and ten,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this. Among the campers is a

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Speaker 1: precocious eight year old named Laurie Farmer, a natural leader,

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Speaker 1: protective of her four younger siblings. There's also Michelle Goose,

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Speaker 1: a third year scout. She has a passion for competitive sports,

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Speaker 1: particularly sonker. She sat in her mother's lap the night

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Speaker 1: before camp started and said that she would miss her

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Speaker 1: well she was gone. And there's Denise Milner, one of

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Speaker 1: only a few African American girls attending Camp Scott this summer.

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Speaker 1: Like her tentmates Loria Michelle. She is multi talented, participating

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Speaker 1: in gymnastics, tap dancing, and the church choir. Wow, I'm

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Speaker 1: just imagining these three little girls in their tents right now.

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Speaker 1: But some of them, as always at camp, knew they

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Speaker 1: were going to be homesick. Listen. As I began to

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Speaker 1: board the bus, I saw Denise and her mother. Denise

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Speaker 1: was visibly crying an upset, So I walked over and

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Speaker 1: introduced myself, said, Hey, Michelle, what's your name. Come on,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go have a great time. You can ride

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Speaker 1: with me. And we climbed on the bus and she

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Speaker 1: was setting by the window and I was telling her

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Speaker 1: all the great things that we're going to do at camp,

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Speaker 1: and her mother came on the bus. Betty. She was like,

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Speaker 1: I could tell she was worried about her right, so

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Speaker 1: she can call me she gets homesick, But I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'll make sure she's taken care of. I'm just imagining

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Speaker 1: that Carla will hight with me. A former Camp Scott counselor,

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing happened last summer when I was a

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Speaker 1: volunteer at Scout camp much like this camp. A little

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Speaker 1: boy came down the road. There's no streets, they're all dirt,

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Speaker 1: and he was just crying his heart out. And I

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Speaker 1: noticed none of the counselors or none of the adults

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Speaker 1: were going to him. And I went to him and

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Speaker 1: I hope. I'm like, what's wrong? And he goes, I

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Speaker 1: want to go home. I missed my mom. And all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, like three adult volunteers came and said

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Speaker 1: let go. I went what's wrong? And I let go

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Speaker 1: because of all the rules now, you can't touch a scout,

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Speaker 1: even if they're crying and snodding and they're homesick. But

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Speaker 1: guess what. The very next day, I went back where

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Speaker 1: the little boy had been, and he was having a

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Speaker 1: great time. He didn't want to go home. And I

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Speaker 1: will also added they get very homesick. Horrible cell phone coverage,

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Speaker 1: of course, but my entire batteries used up every night

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Speaker 1: with girls wanting to call home to their moms. Now,

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Speaker 1: some people have viewed this when you went over in

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Speaker 1: comforted Denise as some type of a premonition. I think

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Speaker 1: she was just afraid to be alone. I would agree

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Speaker 1: with that. I mean, I think all of us are homesick.

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Speaker 1: The first night away at Girl Scout Camp. I know

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Speaker 1: I was, but by the end of the two weeks,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to go home. Yeah, that's the way

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Speaker 1: it always seems to be, Carla. So as we're trying

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Speaker 1: to was Joe Scott Morgan was talking about this isolated area,

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Speaker 1: figure out what happened that night? What is the layout? Listen,

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Speaker 1: when the bus stops end up at a staff house,

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Speaker 1: you're going to find out what unit you're in Wampa, Ohiowa.

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Speaker 1: Who was Comanche? And the youngest girls were in Cherokee.

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Speaker 1: The tents are arranged, typically in a somewhat circle or

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Speaker 1: U shape, with the councilor sent by the trail that

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Speaker 1: came into the camp tent one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Lorie, Denise,

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Speaker 1: and Michelle were assigned to ten number seven. Thinking about

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Speaker 1: that layout and the fact that this camp, of course,

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Speaker 1: like all Scout camps, is very isolated in the woods.

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Speaker 1: Joining right now, another special guest, can't fred Us an

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Speaker 1: attorney out of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, former minority leader in

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Speaker 1: the Oklahoma House and author of Oklahoma's most Notorious Crimes.

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Speaker 1: Now Here is a guy that knows what he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: Is the author of Oklahoma's most notorious crimes and of

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma hiking trails, So that's the perfect marriage to discuss

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Speaker 1: this incident, a triple homicide of three little girls, ages eight,

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Speaker 1: nine and ten. Ken Fred's thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're familiar with this case. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: the layout of the campsite and the isolation of this

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Speaker 1: remote location and how that played into trying to catch

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Speaker 1: the killer. Let me first say that this is clearly

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Speaker 1: one of the most notorious cases in the history of

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Speaker 1: the state, and it was at the time. It was

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Speaker 1: both a notorious case in Oklahoma and nationally. And as

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Speaker 1: the facts developed, you'll see that all of the factors involved,

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Speaker 1: and not only just the hideousness of the crime, are important.

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Speaker 1: But as far as the layout of the camp I

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Speaker 1: think it was very important because it was four hundred

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Speaker 1: acres of wooded land, It was completely rural, there was

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Speaker 1: no nothing nearby except a few isolated farm houses to

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Speaker 1: that night, and the hideous nature of these crimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of kids sitting around a camp fire

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Speaker 1: and everybody's telling ghost stories. They started right here. They

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Speaker 1: started right here with Camp Scott and this story. Except

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Speaker 1: this is not a story. These are real little girls

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Speaker 1: ages eight, nine to ten that lost their lives that night,

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Speaker 1: their families destroyed. And the lore around this as kent fright.

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Speaker 1: It says hideous crime has affected scouting and hiking in

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Speaker 1: general camping from this moment on. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: And I did go out later that night because I

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Speaker 1: heard a noise didn't really sound like an animal, didn't

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Speaker 1: really sound like a person. It just kept going on

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Speaker 1: and it was kind of over across the fence, and

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Speaker 1: I went out with my flashlight and I started walking

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Speaker 1: over that direction, kind of trying to shine my light

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Speaker 1: and see what it is. When I would shine my light,

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Speaker 1: the noise would stop, So I like, okay, turn around,

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Speaker 1: start walking away. The noise starts again. So I do

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Speaker 1: this a few times, and I could just feel this

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Speaker 1: apprehension growing in me because I don't want to tangle

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Speaker 1: with whatever that is. I can't see what it is.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I guarantee you if

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Speaker 1: she knew what that voice was, if it was associated

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Speaker 1: with what was happening, she would have given her lun

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Speaker 1: little second you're hearing the voice of Carla will hit

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Speaker 1: camp counselor at the time of this triple murder of

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Speaker 1: three young girl scouts, Carla, could you describe the sound? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was as I said, it didn't sound like any

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Speaker 1: animal it ever her, or like a human. It was

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Speaker 1: just a low, kind of raspy sound, like a like

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Speaker 1: almost like a moan, and it would kind of trail

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Speaker 1: off and stop when I shined my light over toward it.

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Speaker 1: And as I said, I mean, I did become frightened

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Speaker 1: and I didn't want to go any further than I had.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying it didn't sound like a person and

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Speaker 1: it didn't sound like an animal, right, It really hard

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Speaker 1: to describe in retrospect when you look back. What do

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Speaker 1: you think it was? Well, because of its proximity to

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Speaker 1: where I found the girls in the morning, I am

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Speaker 1: guessing it was someone that it was possibly a human

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Speaker 1: being at that time. Did you had any reason to

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Speaker 1: suspect that the girls were in danger? Absolutely not. I

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Speaker 1: really believed it was, you know, an animal, even though

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Speaker 1: I couldn't identify it. And what time was this, Carla?

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Speaker 1: I would say it was probably about two in the morning.

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Speaker 1: Why were you up at two? I heard the noise.

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Speaker 1: It woke you up? Yeah? Did you ever hear screams

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Speaker 1: no never, not no. Okay, guys, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: And I looked over to my right and I saw

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Speaker 1: some sleeping bags in the road, and the first thing

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Speaker 1: that I thought was, oh, my gosh, you know, some

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Speaker 1: sleeping bags must have fallen off the truck when they

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Speaker 1: delivered all the girl's luggage. I better get it. But

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Speaker 1: then as I started walking closer, I could see a body,

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Speaker 1: and then closer could see it was a young girl.

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Speaker 1: And recognized as I approached that this young girl, she

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Speaker 1: was motionless, she wasn't breathing. It was just an overwhelming

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Speaker 1: recognition that, you know, this child is dead. Carla. I

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Speaker 1: cannot even imagine what you went through finding this. Describe

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Speaker 1: for us why you were there in that spot, what happened.

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Speaker 1: For the most simple of reasons, I had set my

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Speaker 1: alarm for six o'clock so that I could get to

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Speaker 1: the staff house and take a shower with warm water,

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Speaker 1: because all we had were cold water showers. And so I,

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Speaker 1: you know, put on my glasses, got a dry towel,

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Speaker 1: and went out down the steps of my tent and

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Speaker 1: started walking up the road. And there's a you know,

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Speaker 1: a little um intersection of one road with another, and

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Speaker 1: that's where I've found the children. I can't even imagine

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Speaker 1: what went through your mind when you realized this was

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Speaker 1: actually a little girl's body. At first I thought from

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Speaker 1: terrible accident had happened. I mean I literally was trying

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Speaker 1: to make sense of it, that somehow someone got scared

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Speaker 1: during the night, and I mean as a ran into

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Speaker 1: a tree and you know, died as a result. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're just trying to make sense of the unsensible. To

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Speaker 1: doctor Sean Roberson, I hear that from so many crime

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Speaker 1: victims and tangential victims of crime, like carl will Height.

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Speaker 1: They're struggling to make sense of what their mind, what

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Speaker 1: they see. It's like the eye is tricking the mind.

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Speaker 1: Like her thought was was there an accident? Did this

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Speaker 1: girl hit a tree? And that explains what I'm seeing.

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Speaker 1: What is that some sort of a mental self defense? Well,

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Speaker 1: most people just aren't. You aren't exposed to the violence

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Speaker 1: and evil that happens in this world, and so when

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Speaker 1: they run across it's a brutal crime. They they're looking

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Speaker 1: for an explanation for how it could have happened, and

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Speaker 1: especially out there in a remote area, like that, you

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Speaker 1: would never suspect that a sexual psychopath may have been

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Speaker 1: in the campground. Listen to this. One of the girls

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Speaker 1: was out of a sleeping bag and the other two

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Speaker 1: were zipped up in the bag. The one that was

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Speaker 1: out of the bag had a blow to her head.

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Speaker 1: The other two sleeping bags were zipped up, but when

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Speaker 1: they were unzipped, they discovered the other two girls who

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Speaker 1: had also been beaten, and all three of them were dead.

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Speaker 1: They had been restrained with duct tape in one way

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Speaker 1: or another, and one of them had a piece of

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Speaker 1: cord around her neck that had something on it that

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Speaker 1: they later determined was a gag. You were hearing the

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Speaker 1: voice one of our special guests, Can't fretis former minority

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Speaker 1: leader in the Oklahoma House and author of Oklahoma's Mastatorious Crimes.

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Speaker 1: That's why no one heard any screams, Can't They were

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Speaker 1: duct taped across the mouth. Well, that's correct, and also

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Speaker 1: at least one of them was killed very quickly with

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Speaker 1: a massive blow to the head. The other thing was

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Speaker 1: that not only were they duct taped, but in one

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Speaker 1: case one of the girls was tied with a cord.

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Speaker 1: And that will become increasingly important the bodies. You stated

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Speaker 1: one girl was killed very very quickly. Had she been raped?

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Speaker 1: That's correct, there is. All three of them had been

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Speaker 1: sexually assaulted. When you say assaulted, do you mean raped. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. The first responders observed that

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Speaker 1: both Laurie Farmer and Michelle Gouz had very likely been

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Speaker 1: knocked out by blows to the head with blunt instruments,

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Speaker 1: while Denise Milner appeared to have survived longer than the

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Speaker 1: other two girls because her body was still warm when

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Speaker 1: the authorities arrived. All three girls were sexually assaulted and

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Speaker 1: found about one hundred and fifty yards away from ten

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Speaker 1: to seven. The bodies still warm, okay. Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: death investigator and host of a new hit series Body

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Speaker 1: Bags with Joe Scott Morgan on iHeart. What does that

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Speaker 1: tell you, Joe Scott, Well, obviously, you know you begin

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Speaker 1: to think about the environmental temperature that night. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember before and we have talked about how it had

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Speaker 1: rained and that's going to cool the environment. The ambient

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Speaker 1: environmental temperature will so that really focuses in on this

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Speaker 1: one body that is still warm, because you know, after death,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that we look for is the

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Speaker 1: post mortem interval, and if the ambient environmental temperature is

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Speaker 1: at a point where it is so cool and the

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Speaker 1: body is still warm, you know, you know that she

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Speaker 1: had survived for some time, particularly comparison to her two companions.

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Speaker 1: Needs Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me is Fate Phillips,

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Speaker 1: a Chucky screenwriter and author of Now I Lay Me Down.

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Speaker 1: You can find her on Facebook at Fate Philip's Fate

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Speaker 1: Philip's Way in Well. I think this is one of

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Speaker 1: the most disturbing parts of the crime, and there are

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Speaker 1: so many disturbing elements to it, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: one of the girls was kept alive for some time,

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Speaker 1: I think indicate something even more sinister. Murders bad enough,

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Speaker 1: but here we have something that indicates torture of some sort,

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Speaker 1: and that takes it through an entirely different level of crime.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Well, we have someone

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Speaker 1: who is intentionally inflicting torture on a child, and so

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Speaker 1: that that would indicate And I'm not a psychiatrist of

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Speaker 1: any sorts, but when I consider that just as a

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Speaker 1: human being of the kind of mental state it would

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Speaker 1: take for an adult to take an innocent child from

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Speaker 1: a tent and to intentionally keep them alive to inflict

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Speaker 1: pain on them. This is beyond most people's imagination. And

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Speaker 1: certainly when I learned about the details, I had known

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Speaker 1: about the case for some time. In fact, people had

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Speaker 1: asked me to write a book about the case, and

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Speaker 1: I'd always said no because I felt like it had

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Speaker 1: already been covered. And when I really started looking into

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Speaker 1: the case and I learned more and more details about

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Speaker 1: what actually happened, the horror of what happened that night,

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Speaker 1: it just keeps getting worse and worse the more you

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Speaker 1: learn about the crime. It really does. The three girls

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Speaker 1: in their tents, all raped, all martyred in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night, and no one heard a thing. The

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Speaker 1: forensic experts start their mission listen at the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Police begin collecting evidence, looking for possible clues. They find

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Speaker 1: a red flashlight left by the bodies, its lens covered

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Speaker 1: by plastic with a hole in it to make it

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Speaker 1: harder to be seen at night, and prints a bloody

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Speaker 1: bootprint on the tenth floor, along with the print of

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Speaker 1: a tennis show. Wow, you know, Jessica Morgan, forensic expert,

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Speaker 1: I'm all forgetting she prints. But that's really not a

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Speaker 1: lot to go on, No, it's not. But what it

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Speaker 1: does indicate to me, Nancy, thinking about the flashlight and

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Speaker 1: thinking about the nature or the mode in which these

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Speaker 1: lo angels died. I think it's it's significant in the

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Speaker 1: fact that this individual showed up prepared, Nancy. You know

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Speaker 1: when you think about you know, there was some cutting

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Speaker 1: that was involved relative to the canvas on the tent

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00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 1: to get access to the tent. The individual obviously had

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00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: a sharp instrument with them to get access to the

429
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: backside of the tent. But then you know what has

430
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: been alluded to are these bludgeoning tools. This is the

431
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: tool that this individual chooses to end their lives with

432
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: and it escalates it up to a certain level of violence.

433
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: So you would have blood evidence there, and there's quite

434
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: a bit of it. And another thing, Joe Scott clearly

435
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: the perpetrator, the killer of three girls eight, nine and

436
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: ten years old sleeping in their tents a girl's scout camp,

437
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: came prepared. This was not spur of the moment, this

438
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: was planned. Take a listen to this. Law enforcement announces

439
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: that two squirrel hunters have come across a remote cave.

440
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: In the coming days, authorities say two more caves with

441
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: clues to the investigation are discovered, and inside them, law

442
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: enforcement says our photographs. A photographer at the prison had

443
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: taken the photographs, and one of hard prison jobs had

444
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: been to assist that photographer. If he had been in

445
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: that cave and left things there, it would have tied

446
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: him to the murder scene. And then in the third cave,

447
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: somebody had scratched a note on the wall that said

448
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: the killer wash hair I had a date. Ten days

449
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: after the girls were found in their sleeping backs, and

450
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: based on the evidence the police said was found in

451
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: the cave, the authorities charged Jean Leroy Hart with first

452
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: degree murder in the deaths of Laurie Farmer, Michelle Gouse,

453
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: and Denise Milner. To Carla will Hike, joining us, she

454
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: was camp counselor at Camp Scott at the time of

455
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: the three murders and rapes of three little girls. There's

456
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: really no way you could possibly know that out far

457
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: away from the camp a guy is living in a cave.

458
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: Just as astounding to think that someone that's actually known

459
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: to be escaped from jail is living near a girl.

460
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: Scout camp. It still just feels unreal. How far away

461
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: from the camp was this cave. This is Faith Phillips.

462
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: That cave is just about a mile south of the

463
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: Girl Scout camp and and it's very remote. You have

464
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: to walk through some woods to get to it. So

465
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: most people probably didn't even know. Even locals probably didn't

466
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: even know that that cave was there. And it had

467
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: we call it a cave, but it was actually a

468
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: root seller. So there had been an old homestead there

469
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: and the house was gone and it was like a

470
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: root seller in the side of a creek bank. And

471
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: so they call it a cave, but it's actually a seller. Wow.

472
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you possibly protect children against something

473
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,479
Speaker 1: you don't know about? Well, I mean, what about it? Faith,

474
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 1: Who would imagine to go a mile away and look

475
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: for as it's being called a cave. And it's a

476
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: good point. It's it's something to consider. I think that

477
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: most people are pretty naive, I myself included, and so

478
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: I living in the Cherokee Nation, I have always I

479
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: grew up there, I always felt safe, and so I

480
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: share that same sense with Carla that you would never

481
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: imagine that something like this could happen. But On the

482
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: other hand, having spoken to locals, I've found out that

483
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 1: it was known that people would gather around that camp

484
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: teenage teenagers and hooliganza is the word that they often used,

485
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: but that was a source of entertainment. They knew that locals,

486
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: some of the locals knew that that people would gather

487
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: around the camp for entertainment. And in fact that Harold Barry,

488
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: who was a highway patrolman, would go and scatter the

489
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: people that were the teenage boys. I expose you would

490
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: probably the best way to describe the people that would

491
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: gather around there just to try and scare the girls.

492
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: And so it wasn't known that that there were people

493
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: that should that weren't authorized to be around the camp,

494
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: not by Harla or by camp director, but by locals.

495
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: They knew that people sometimes gathered around there that shouldn't

496
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: have been there. I don't know that I would call

497
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: them authorized, but I agree it was known. But imagine

498
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: some guy living in a cave or an old roots seller. Guys,

499
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: we are following the very latest developments in the exclusive

500
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: new Foxtation series The Girl Scout Murders. Were following it

501
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: here on Crime Stories all week long tomorrow. Clues emerge

502
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: as the man hunt for this guy living in a

503
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 1: cave Jane Hart heats up. Plus are more alleged killers

504
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: on the run. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,