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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: and I love all things tech. It is time for

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Speaker 1: a classic episode. This episode originally published on October two.

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Speaker 1: It is titled tech Stuff Shines Light on Solar Panels.

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Speaker 1: So we get down to the technology of solar power

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Speaker 1: and how it all works. And you know, whether or

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Speaker 1: not it makes sense. It doesn't make sense for everybody,

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, But let's listen in on this

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Speaker 1: classic episode. You know what, it's been a while since

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Speaker 1: we've done an episode about solar panels. Yeah, since August

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, I believe, in fact, back when Chris

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Speaker 1: Paulette was on the show. Yep. So we did an

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Speaker 1: episode back then and we thought we would update it.

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Speaker 1: So here's the update. We're going to start off with

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Speaker 1: a little bit of background on how all those solar

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Speaker 1: panels actually work. Your basic solar panels tend to be

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Speaker 1: made out of silicon and then dope silicon, dope impure,

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Speaker 1: purposefully impure silicon. Right, that silicon is dope you so, uh,

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Speaker 1: And there's another. Oh, I got the hands over the

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Speaker 1: face this time, guys. Awesome, that's a that's a pure wind. No, okay,

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Speaker 1: So silicon. The reason why we're using silicon in solar

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Speaker 1: panels is that, you know, if you remember your illustrations

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Speaker 1: of atoms, they have the electron shells on the outside

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Speaker 1: of the atom, and those electron shells can hold a

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Speaker 1: certain number of electrons depending upon what which energy shell

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. Now, silicon has some free electrons in

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Speaker 1: its outermost shell, meaning that not every single space that

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Speaker 1: can hold an electron has an electron. And when I

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Speaker 1: say space, I just mean the number of electrons that

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Speaker 1: can inhabit at outer shell. Since they're they are free,

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Speaker 1: then silicon can bond with something else, like other silicon atoms.

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Speaker 1: So if you can have it bond with lots of

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Speaker 1: silicon atoms, you then create a silicon crystal. If you

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Speaker 1: then bombard this silicon crystal that has been doped in

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Speaker 1: various ways, either with ions that have a negative charge

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Speaker 1: or ions to have a positive charge, you can then

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Speaker 1: induce electrons to flow. Now, in our article on how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com about how solar panels work, there's

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Speaker 1: an healthful analogy there, right, it's about uh kind of

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Speaker 1: talking about hills, right. It's saying that essentially when when

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Speaker 1: you create when you create one of these cells with

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Speaker 1: a with the negative side and a positive side, it's

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Speaker 1: going to create an electron flow that's downhill, right, Meaning

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Speaker 1: that like if you were to have a rock and

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Speaker 1: you pushed it down the hill, it would roll down

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Speaker 1: the hill, but it wouldn't roll back up the hill.

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Speaker 1: There there'd be that blocking mechanism to keep it from

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Speaker 1: going up the hill. Uh. In the case of silicon

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Speaker 1: based solar cells, the photon is kind of that initial

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Speaker 1: push that gets the rock rolling. So if the photon

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Speaker 1: is strong enough to push the rock and get it moving,

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Speaker 1: everything's cool. You're actually you're gathering energy through solar power.

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Speaker 1: So the photon hits the silicon crystals that are doped

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Speaker 1: so that you're it's not just a pure silicon crystal

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Speaker 1: all the way through. That gives energy to allow electrons

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Speaker 1: to break clear of what is called the band gap.

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Speaker 1: That allows the electrons to break free of their bonds

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Speaker 1: and flow through a pathway. Now they want to get

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Speaker 1: to the negatively charged electrons, want to get to a

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Speaker 1: more positively charged environment. But if you have a barrier

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Speaker 1: there so that they can't just crossover, they you know,

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Speaker 1: you get this potential energy, but you don't have any

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Speaker 1: real energy. But if you make a pathway from negative

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Speaker 1: to positive, then the electrons will travel that pathway to

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Speaker 1: get to that positive site because that's really where they

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Speaker 1: want to be. That's that's the awesome place for them.

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Speaker 1: And if you make them do work along the way,

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Speaker 1: you get a benefit from it. So like that work

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Speaker 1: might be lighting a light bulb, or it might be

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Speaker 1: opening the doors on the enterprise. I've been reading a

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Speaker 1: lot about star Trek recently. Um anyway, the work could

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Speaker 1: be whatever you could imagine an electronic circuit, and the

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Speaker 1: electrons are going to go and do it because it

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Speaker 1: means they get to be on the positive party on

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Speaker 1: the other side. It's just like b if you tell

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Speaker 1: me there's a positive party on the other side, I'm

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Speaker 1: willing to do a lot of work to get there.

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Speaker 1: I'm not on a lot of lists anyway. So this

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Speaker 1: is the basic premise of a solar panel. You have

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Speaker 1: the photons providing the initial energy. Now, not all photons

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Speaker 1: are created equally. We have lots of different frequencies of light. Right,

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Speaker 1: And so some photons have a really low amount of

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Speaker 1: energy and are only going to be able to excite

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Speaker 1: certain types of electron. Maybe maybe they can excite an electron.

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Speaker 1: If they don't have enough energy to equal what that

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Speaker 1: band gap energy is, then they're not going to have

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Speaker 1: the push needed to get the electron to break free.

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Speaker 1: They might in fact flow right past that electron, which

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Speaker 1: will come in handy later on. Um. But but high energy,

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Speaker 1: high energy photons can either at a certain point, no

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Speaker 1: matter how much energy it has, you can't. You're you're

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Speaker 1: gonna lose a little bit if if it's got more

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Speaker 1: than it needs, right. Yeah. So for example, the example

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Speaker 1: I used in the old podcast, if you want to

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to that, is that let's say

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Speaker 1: that I'm capable of lifting a hundred ten pounds. I'm

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Speaker 1: actually able to lift more than that just then, you know,

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Speaker 1: but for the purposes of this example, pounds of my limit.

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Speaker 1: If you if you put a hundred pound weight in

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Speaker 1: front of me, no problem, I can lift it up.

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Speaker 1: You put to one pound weights in front of me,

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Speaker 1: I can lift one or the other, but not both

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Speaker 1: at the same time. However, you know, you sit there,

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Speaker 1: and you look at that from an energy perspective. I'm

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Speaker 1: capable of lifting a hundred ten pounds. I lift a

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Speaker 1: hundred pound weight. That means ten pounds of my lifting

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Speaker 1: power are going to waste. I can't it's not being utilized.

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Speaker 1: I'm not capturing it in some useful way. And in

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Speaker 1: the case of traditional photovoltaics, if Jonathan were that photon

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Speaker 1: and you put to fifty pound weights in front of him,

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't be able to lift them both, only one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we have to that. This is where we're starting

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Speaker 1: to get into some of the challenges that we face

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Speaker 1: with solar power. The big one there is efficiency. Maximizing

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Speaker 1: efficiency in solar panels is no easy task, and in

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Speaker 1: fact it's something that we've seen. If you were to

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Speaker 1: look at it from a big picture perspective, it looks

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Speaker 1: like really minor increases over the last couple of decades,

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Speaker 1: but in fact, every tiny increase means that you get

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of return on your investment, simply because

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about solar panels, were usually talking about

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Speaker 1: big arrays of solar panels, where a little improvement means

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Speaker 1: a lot of output in the in the long run,

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Speaker 1: and they've been so inefficient. Uh, you know, generally about

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Speaker 1: five of the potential energy of the sun is captured

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Speaker 1: by them. In fact, according to some sources, your typical

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Speaker 1: commercial solar cell will get you about nine return. So

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Speaker 1: of all the potential energy you could be gathered based

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Speaker 1: upon the photons that hit that panel is what you're

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Speaker 1: actually capitalizing on. Right, the theoretical maximum for silicon wave

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Speaker 1: for cells is about fifty percent efficiency, right, we just

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Speaker 1: don't get there. In fact, the current world world record

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Speaker 1: in a lab is only forty four point seven percent efficiency,

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Speaker 1: reached just this year by German and French researchers with

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Speaker 1: a four junction cell. And more on multijunction cells later

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Speaker 1: on in the podcast. But that's but that's an elaborator lab,

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Speaker 1: which means it's not it's not sunlight that you're doing.

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Speaker 1: You're bombarding that with specific kinds of light to check

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Speaker 1: on its on its efficiency levels when you get into

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Speaker 1: the field. Sometimes literally in the field, it's much lower.

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Speaker 1: In a field. Well, you know, in my mind, there's

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Speaker 1: there's one field and everything else is just a pathetic

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Speaker 1: copy field of dreams. What's I'm not sure what I

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Speaker 1: built it they came, that's all I'm saying. So then yeah,

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Speaker 1: that so we're talking about really low efficiencies when it

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Speaker 1: comes to how much energy is hitting it versus how

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Speaker 1: much you are actually gathering. On top of that, you

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Speaker 1: have to talk about the actual financial cost of solar cells. Right.

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Speaker 1: They're traditionally pretty expensive. And I think that you and

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Speaker 1: I both managed to compile completely different figures because there's

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Speaker 1: there's a few different ways that people talk about the

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Speaker 1: cost of solar panels. You've got the pure manufacturing before

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Speaker 1: they go into use, and then you've got the installation costs,

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Speaker 1: and then you've got maintenance costs. Yeah, there's there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of different costs associated with it. I was

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Speaker 1: going from a report that m I T created about

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Speaker 1: some improvements that people at m I T had made

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Speaker 1: to solar panels, and that report they said that solar

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Speaker 1: panels cost about seventy five cents per what of energy

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Speaker 1: UH and that in order to be UH to be

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Speaker 1: competitive against fossil fuels, it need to be closer to

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Speaker 1: fifty cents per what. Now, that's just one method of

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Speaker 1: figuring out the expense. And and in fact, the report

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Speaker 1: did not say, like what which factors they took into account,

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Speaker 1: whether that also includes installation in there and maintenance as well,

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Speaker 1: or if that was purely from a manufacturing standpoint, The

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Speaker 1: point being that creating silicon based solar panels is not cheap.

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Speaker 1: It's getting less expensive over time. We're seeing improvements definitely.

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Speaker 1: So some numbers that I was saying, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the pure manufacturing is of two thousand nine being over

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Speaker 1: a dollar per what um as maybe fifty cents per

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Speaker 1: what So, then you've got a and moving moving towards

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Speaker 1: to something like thirty six cents per what right, And

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Speaker 1: we're also going to talk about some alternatives that might

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Speaker 1: get that even lower. But we're seeing we're seeing the

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Speaker 1: cost of solar panels drop year over year, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's because of a lot of different factors. One is

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Speaker 1: that the materials are getting less expensive, We're getting better

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Speaker 1: at making them, We're getting better and making them with

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Speaker 1: cheaper material reels, we're getting better at installing them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's become more business as usual, and so more companies

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Speaker 1: are more used to installing these for people. Therefore, you know,

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Speaker 1: we have people with expertise in the field now that

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Speaker 1: we didn't have five years ago because it was really new,

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Speaker 1: and the manufacturing processes have become more streamlined over time.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of the same with what we saw

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Speaker 1: with the computer industry and microprocessors initially. When you when

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Speaker 1: a new microprocessor hits the market, it tends to be

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Speaker 1: really expensive. And part of that is because the manufacturing

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Speaker 1: cost to create something brand new that has a brand

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Speaker 1: new architecture, it's using super sophisticated electronics that you know,

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Speaker 1: to pay off for that, you have to have a

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Speaker 1: pretty high price on your product. But as you get

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Speaker 1: more money, you can invest more in the manufacturing process,

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Speaker 1: make things more streamlined, you increase efficiency on the back end.

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Speaker 1: That means that you have lower costs, so then you

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Speaker 1: can actually lower the cost of the final product. Same

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Speaker 1: thing we're seeing in the solar panel industry. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I did want to put in that those numbers. If

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Speaker 1: you have yourself installed any kind of solar panels, you

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Speaker 1: are saying a dollar per what I wish um. And

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Speaker 1: that's because for private use installation costs will cost anywhere

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Speaker 1: from like three to six bucks these days, and per

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Speaker 1: per what right, And and that's um, that's a huge

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Speaker 1: improvement over the eight to ten that it was a

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Speaker 1: few years back, but in fact I remember seeing one

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Speaker 1: report and it was based out of the UK, which

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Speaker 1: is already kind of interesting because the UK is not

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Speaker 1: necessarily the ideal spot to have solar panels. They don't

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Speaker 1: have as much it's a little bit cloudier in general,

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Speaker 1: they can get a lot a lot of cloud cover,

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Speaker 1: just that's the climate in that region of the world.

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Speaker 1: But the report found that after about seven years of use,

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Speaker 1: the first seven years, you would essentially be offsetting that

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Speaker 1: cost of installation. After the seven years, you would essentially

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Speaker 1: have recaptured those costs, and apart from maintenance fees for

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Speaker 1: whatever purposes you would need, your energy production at that

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Speaker 1: point forward would be free. So you would then you know,

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Speaker 1: be be at a surplus, which is fantastic and the

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Speaker 1: same thing is generally true throughout the world. Um And

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Speaker 1: as we see these costs go down, both installation manufacturing,

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Speaker 1: both all of the cost installation manufacturing and maintenance going down,

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Speaker 1: then that will mean you don't have to wait as

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Speaker 1: long for this investment to pay off. Part of this

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Speaker 1: is depending on the market. Currently there is more supply

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Speaker 1: than there is demand for photovote takes and that's only

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Speaker 1: because it has been so expensive, and so I think

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Speaker 1: that as this price comes down, it's going to be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see how the market adjusts and whether we're

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Speaker 1: going to see a flattening a plateau prices or or

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Speaker 1: what's going to go on. And also, I mean this

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Speaker 1: also has to do with rare and toxic materials, which

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Speaker 1: you know, rare earth metals are a big component and

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Speaker 1: component and China is the chief producer of rare earth metals.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about that in a previous episode of tech

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Speaker 1: Stuff as well about you waste right, Yeah, well e

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Speaker 1: waste yes, that was one of the yeah in particular

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Speaker 1: was e ways, but rare earth metals. And I think

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Speaker 1: we have a specific episode just about rare earth metals

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Speaker 1: because we we wanted to explain what what they were,

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Speaker 1: why they're important, and why is it that China is

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Speaker 1: the main producer And the main reason that China is

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Speaker 1: the main producer is because it's super cheap to get

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Speaker 1: it from China, because China does not I I'm sure

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Speaker 1: they have fewer. The problem with rare earth metals is

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Speaker 1: that they all contain certain radioactive elements and also getting

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Speaker 1: them out can can release a lot of toxic stuff

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Speaker 1: and there, and in general, if you're doing that, you

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Speaker 1: tend to incur lots of expenses, except in China where

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Speaker 1: they don't care as much. Yeah, if you have fewer

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Speaker 1: regulations then it's a lot cheaper, but a lot more

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Speaker 1: dangerous for the people who are doing it and for

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Speaker 1: the environment, because, as it turns out, there are other

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Speaker 1: places on Earth that are rich, relatively speaking, in rare

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Speaker 1: earth metals. But it's the term rare earth metals doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that there are very few of them in the earth.

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Speaker 1: That generally means that there are very few of them

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Speaker 1: concentrated in a single area, right, Yeah, So the mining

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Speaker 1: process is very different than you know, striking a vein

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Speaker 1: of say iron, and then being able to mind it. So,

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Speaker 1: and of course that's going to play into the other

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Speaker 1: podcasts that we're going to record next but has already published,

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Speaker 1: I believe. So if you've listened to our Minecraft episode,

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Speaker 1: just know that we haven't recorded it yet. Yeah, you've

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Speaker 1: actually traveled. I don't even know where you are now. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: it's Johnson from just breaking in here to say we're

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Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, but we'll be right

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Speaker 1: back so we've got efficiency, we've got cost, we have

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's these rare materials toxicity those that's

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Speaker 1: another challenge, h And another one is just the and

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Speaker 1: we talked about this briefly with the UK. It's just

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Speaker 1: the how how practical is it? Is it practical depending

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Speaker 1: upon where you are in the world, because if you

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Speaker 1: are someplace that does not get a lot of sun exposure,

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Speaker 1: then you're not going to reap the benefits of solar power. However,

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Speaker 1: if you live pretty near to say, the Majabi Desert,

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Speaker 1: you're in a decently good spot right exactly. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I've that we live in Atlanta, and I've seen homes

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta that have solar panels. In fact, there's some

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Speaker 1: that are very close to where I live that have

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Speaker 1: solar panels installed. Uh. And it's something that I've thought

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Speaker 1: about too. But it's another one of those things where

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Speaker 1: I would really need to have a kind of study

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Speaker 1: done about how much sun does my home really get?

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Speaker 1: Would I would I be doing? Would I be getting

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Speaker 1: a good return on my investment, meaning that if it's

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Speaker 1: going to be one of those things where I'm only

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Speaker 1: barely offsetting my energy costs, I might be doing more

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Speaker 1: harm than good by adding solar panels, especially you know

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Speaker 1: when you figure in maintenance fees and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff in the in the process. So uh, you

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Speaker 1: know your mileage will vary depending upon how much sun

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Speaker 1: you get. So those are the basic challenges. Now what's

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Speaker 1: great is about solar panels is that we see lots

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Speaker 1: of different companies and engineers and scientists looking to address

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Speaker 1: these challenges in different ways. So people are coming at

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Speaker 1: this problem from all different directions, not just from solar panels,

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Speaker 1: but from huge collections of solar panels. Yeah, that's speaking

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Speaker 1: of the Majave Desert. Actually, there is a large solar

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Speaker 1: thermal farm being built in California right near the Nevada

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Speaker 1: border called ivan Pa. I didn't look up the pronunciation.

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Speaker 1: We're going to go with that, um, but so it's

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Speaker 1: like ian hoe. Yes, um, it's on some four thousand acres,

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Speaker 1: which is about sixteen square kilometers, which is something like

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Speaker 1: six square miles for anyone else who doesn't know what

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Speaker 1: on earth an acre is and heck tears, No, I'm

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Speaker 1: just kidding. Um. And so solar thermal farms as opposed

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Speaker 1: to classic solar farms which are just large collections of

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Speaker 1: these photovolt take plates use mirrors a k. A heliostats

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Speaker 1: if you want to use the technical science term for it,

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Speaker 1: um to concentrate sunlight into a tower, which then boils

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Speaker 1: water to create steam to turn a turbine to create

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Speaker 1: power or not create power, I'm sorry, generate energy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And this, this particular Ivan Power is using some one

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Speaker 1: D seventy thousand mirrors in fact, to concentrate the sunlight

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Speaker 1: onto three large like four a k at seven towers.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's pretty impressive. They it's set to

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Speaker 1: turn on this year. They first tower just went through

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Speaker 1: a power power cycle test and they green lit it.

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Speaker 1: They said good to go. So that's exciting. As at September,

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Speaker 1: we are recording this on October something something there you

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Speaker 1: go dates numbers only because it was right there on

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Speaker 1: my screen. N I guess it's online too. That's great. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, but co location this is this is an

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Speaker 1: idea that we see in lots of different power strategies

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Speaker 1: where almost in almost everything we talk about when it

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Speaker 1: comes to power. In fact, I'll go so far as

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Speaker 1: to say in every form of power, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: heat is one of those factors that if you can

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Speaker 1: harness the heat as well as whatever it is you're

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Speaker 1: doing to generate the power in the first place, then

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Speaker 1: you can end up generating more power that way than

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Speaker 1: you would if you just let that heat dissipate into

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Speaker 1: the atmosphere. Sure, and these these thermal farms are a

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Speaker 1: little bit a little bit tricky in that you have

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Speaker 1: to have a really good location for them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's there aren't that many sixteen square kilometer areas just

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Speaker 1: kind of hanging out where people are willing to let

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Speaker 1: you completely disrupt an ecosystem in order to put down

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of mirrors and a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: really hot water towers, um, in order to generate energy.

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Speaker 1: Deserts are pretty good candidates, although part of the two

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Speaker 1: point two billion dollar cost of building this thing out

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Speaker 1: was a very expensive move of a threatened species of

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Speaker 1: desert tortoise from this area to to a safe place

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Speaker 1: where they wouldn't be boiled. Um. Yeah, yeah, I can

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Speaker 1: see where that would be a concern. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's we often will think about things like desert environments

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Speaker 1: as being practically like but now it's not like, it's

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Speaker 1: not like tattooing or Mars or Mars. Yeah, now, solar

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Speaker 1: solar farms on Mars. The solar Mars will not be

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Speaker 1: hurting for that, although they don't know you don't know

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Speaker 1: about the Martians. Well, also I don't know about the storms.

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Speaker 1: So the storms could also really block a lot of

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Speaker 1: the soul. Now that I think about it, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't make such sweeping statements. But you know

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Speaker 1: there are of course, they're already solar panels on Mars. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's thanks thanks to a couple of rovers out there. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, this, this particular one is is set to

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Speaker 1: deliver some three seventy seven net mega watts of power

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Speaker 1: in uh as opposed to the three it's capable of

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Speaker 1: total You're you're always going to lose some in a

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Speaker 1: system like this, and which is about the same as

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Speaker 1: a medium sized also fuel plant. It's kind of sort

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Speaker 1: of and yeah, the two of the towers are going

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Speaker 1: to be selling to pgn E and the third is

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Speaker 1: going to be selling to Southern California Edison. And supposedly

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Speaker 1: the whole system is going to power some hundred forty homes. Right,

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Speaker 1: So here we're looking at a system that, while it

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Speaker 1: does have a huge initial cost, Uh, they are going

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Speaker 1: to be able to start selling to customers. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how long it will take them to recapture the

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Speaker 1: costs of building that place. I mean that's going to

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Speaker 1: take a while. You're two point two billion dollars. It's

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Speaker 1: no chump change, right. Yeah, they had their investments from

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Speaker 1: people like Google, and they were working partially on a

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Speaker 1: federal government loan. So some of that some of that

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Speaker 1: is offset, some of it's offset, sure, and then uh,

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Speaker 1: but on top of that, you're looking at a much

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Speaker 1: lower environmental impact in the long run compared to the

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Speaker 1: carbon dioxide emissions you would get from from a fossil

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Speaker 1: fuel plant. Right, And there has been some research on

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Speaker 1: The brook Haven National Laboratory released a study saying that

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Speaker 1: regardless of the technolog of the specific technology being used

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Speaker 1: in photovoltaics, they generate fewer harmful gas emissions, like some

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Speaker 1: fewer UM than anything fossil fuel related. So well, and

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Speaker 1: related to this is the concept of solar trackers. This

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Speaker 1: is something else that you can find at solar farms

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Speaker 1: where uh, in this case, I'm talking about your more

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Speaker 1: traditional solar panels that are using photons to convert it

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Speaker 1: to electricity, as opposed to this approach where you're using

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Speaker 1: the solar the solar energy to heat water. But solar

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Speaker 1: trackers are kind of what they sound like. These are

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Speaker 1: devices that can track the movement of the Sun. Although

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Speaker 1: of course we know the Sun's movement is relative to

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Speaker 1: the Earth and there's spin and all that stuff. At

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Speaker 1: any rate, we're just gonna go with the movement of

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Speaker 1: the Sun across the horizon, across the sky, the pathway

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Speaker 1: across the sky. So you've got these solar panels. Not

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Speaker 1: all the solar panel panels are going to be angled

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Speaker 1: at a way where they're going to capture as much

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Speaker 1: sunlight as possible throughout any particular part of the day.

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Speaker 1: So what do you do. Well, you could mount the

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Speaker 1: solar panels on some sort of pivoting system that would

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Speaker 1: change throughout the day, or you create solar trackers that

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Speaker 1: are enormous mirrors mounted on some form of of Essentially

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Speaker 1: you're looking at something that can that can tilt so

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Speaker 1: that it will direct sunlight back down to the panels. Right,

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Speaker 1: So the panels are stationary that you don't move throughout

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Speaker 1: the day. But the trackers, these enormous mirrors that can

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Speaker 1: move in relation to the way the sun's path takes

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Speaker 1: it across the sky, can continuously adjust so that the

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Speaker 1: sunlight is directed back to the solar panels, thus maximizing

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Speaker 1: the number of hours when you can collect sunlight. Because

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Speaker 1: that's another one of those challenges that we didn't really mention.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes the sun's not out, it might be you know, night,

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Speaker 1: or sometimes it's in a different place. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you if you cover say the west wall of your

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Speaker 1: house with solar panels, which is a terrible plan overall,

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Speaker 1: don't do that, but um, that's the least efficient way

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Speaker 1: of going about anything. Yeah, you're you're only going to

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Speaker 1: get the western facing sun. Yeah, and even then, like

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Speaker 1: at different times of the year, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: get as coverage exactly. Yeah. The the there will be

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Speaker 1: sometimes the year where you will get more uh or

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Speaker 1: you'll get longer hours, not longer hours, but longer time

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Speaker 1: periods where the hours will stay the same, but you'll

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00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: get longer period Yeah. Well, you know, back in my day,

431
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: hours used to be sixty three minutes long. But you know,

432
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: the kids, Uh no, you get you'll have longer times

433
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: when you'll be able to collect sunlight. So these are

434
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: just little strategies to try and maximize that as much

435
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: as possible, so that even if the solar panel efficiency

436
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: is low, if you can maximize the amount of time

437
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: that they receive sunlight, you still generate more power. We

438
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: have more to say about solar panels after this quick break,

439
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: all right, so let's talk a little bit about improving

440
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: solar panels um, not just making solar farms more efficient,

441
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: but the actual panels themselves now, right, because there's a

442
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: lot of interesting materials science and even quantum science that's

443
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: going on in this Yeah, you know, we can we

444
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: can always confuse that confuse things by adding the word

445
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: quantum in there. So, uh, one of them is one

446
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: of the things we can do is look at introducing

447
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: some sort of film to put upon solar panels so

448
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: that it reflects less light. That's one of the problems

449
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: with solar panels is that some some photons when they

450
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 1: hit the panel, we'll just bounce right off. Again. Silicon

451
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: specifically is very shiny, and so so you're going to

452
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: lose more photons than you really want to in this

453
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: process of reflection. Right, So one way to increase efficiency

454
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: is to make sure those photons don't get away. And

455
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: there are different ways of doing this, and one of

456
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: them is to copy a certain insect, the moth, the moth, right,

457
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 1: I had heard about this, Yeah, so moth eyes. Now,

458
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about moth eyes. If you

459
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: were to get microscope and look at a moth's eye,

460
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: you know you've borrowed it from the moth. Maybe the

461
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: moth has flown off a little eye patch and hook

462
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: and it's gone to be a piratical moth. Meanwhile, you're

463
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: looking at the moth's eye, you're gonna see there are

464
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: these little micro structures, and those micro structures in the

465
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: eye are they have a specific purpose. They reflect light

466
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 1: back to the back of the moth's eye so that

467
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: the moth can perceive more light. And a lot of

468
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: animals have this, but moth eyes in particular are extremely

469
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: efficient at doing so. Yeah. And if you've ever seen,

470
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: like like a photograph of a cat and the eyes

471
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: are glowing at you, that's because of a reflective layer

472
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: at the back of the eye, which is which is

473
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: reflecting light back into the right. Now. Yeah, no, in

474
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: this case, we can really say that there are probably

475
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: two big reasons for moths to have this particular micro

476
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: structure in their eyes. One is so that they see

477
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: more light. They can perceive more light because they're flying

478
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: around often at night, and the other is that they

479
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 1: reflect less light so that potential predators can't see them

480
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: and gobble them up. So it's a survival mechanism on

481
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: two fronts. How we can take advantage of it is

482
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: by making a kind of a model of those same

483
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: micro structures designs in such a way so that when

484
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: light hits it, more of the light gets reflected down

485
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: to the surface of the solar panel, the the actual

486
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: collection surface, and fewer photons bounce off, and we thus

487
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: increase efficiency. Now there's a fellow named Noboru Yamada who

488
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: came up with this idea along with a team of scientists.

489
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: Uh he is a scientist at Nagoako University of Technology

490
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: in Japan. And I'm sure I butchered all of that.

491
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: But but other than that, yes, yes, well, okay, fair enough.

492
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: Uh So he what he did was he took some

493
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: molds made out of a notic porous alumina to create

494
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: the micro structures that were similar to those of you

495
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: would find in a moth's eyes and uh, put that

496
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: into a crylic resin. So if you're wondering what that

497
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: actually means, a notic is another, you know, anode. We're

498
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: talking about the positively charged electrode in a in a system.

499
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: Poorous of course, just means it's got little bit of

500
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: holes and holes or spaces within it. And alumina is

501
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: actually a type of aluminum oxide, which is an electrical

502
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: insulator but also has a high thermal conductivity, so it

503
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: conducts heat really well, but it insulates electricity. Um They

504
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: found that this film could boost the efficiency of solar

505
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: panels by around five percent, so which again sounds really

506
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: small until you consider that that a five percent efficiency

507
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: rate is the that's the average. Let's say, let's say

508
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: that we have it on close to the high end,

509
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: so somewhere around, which is pretty high. I mean, especially

510
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: if you're talking about commercial solar panels, that's really high.

511
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: And then if you were to apply this film and

512
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: get that five percent increase, knowing that it's up to

513
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 1: five percent, you're not always going to get a five

514
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: percent improvement either, But that's a tent of sittiency at

515
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: that point, and when you multiply that across an entire

516
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: array of solar panels, Like I said, that equals a

517
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: lot more electricity. So while it might be tiny in

518
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: comparison to one solar cell, when you're talking about an

519
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: array of solar panels, it makes a huge difference. So, uh,

520
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: that's one way that we've seen solar panels get some improvements. Now,

521
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: this is just a film you would put over a

522
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: solar panel. It doesn't replace the panel itself. We have

523
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: some other technologies that would actually either improve solar panel

524
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: silicon or replace it. So for example, University of New

525
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: South Wales, So New South Wales, it's in Australia. Uh

526
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: and uh the what now she's shaking her head, have

527
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: you versus saying Australia that was a that was a

528
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: terrible accent. My Australian accent is amazing. It's almost as

529
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: good as my New Zealand accent, which is the same accent.

530
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: I can't wait for all of our friends down under

531
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: to yell at me, but I won't understand them, so

532
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: it's okay. So the University of New South Whales, some engineers,

533
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: some scientists decided to take a look at using hydrogen

534
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: atoms to try and correct deficiencies in silicon crystals. Now,

535
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: the deficiencies in silicon would mean that normally it would

536
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: decrease the efficiency of a solar panel, so not you know,

537
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: when you're doping silicon, you want it in a very

538
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: specific way so that you can maximize its efficiency. But occasionally,

539
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: through manufacturing processes or whatever mistakes happen, you'll get a

540
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: deficiency and it will decrease that of the efficiency of

541
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: that particular solar panel, and as a result, you'll get

542
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: less energy out of it than you had anticipated. They

543
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: found that by using hydrogen atoms and inserting them into

544
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: silicon crystals, the hydrogen atoms would bond with the deficiencies

545
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: inside the silicon and negate them and essentially help move

546
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: the photons toward the silk the silicon. That would actually

547
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: help transfer that into electric electric energy so or electricity

548
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: as we sometimes call it. So it was it was

549
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 1: one of those improvements that doesn't necessarily mean we're going

550
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: to have mega, super powerful new silicon based solar panel again,

551
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: It's going to be a small improvement, right. Instead, what

552
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: it means is that we could actually use cheaper silicon,

553
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: so By using cheaper silicon, we bring down the price

554
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: of the solar panels in general, So yeah, you can.

555
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: The problem with using cheaper silicon normally is that you

556
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: get more defects and less efficiency, But if you have

557
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: the hydrogen to correct those defects, then you can ignore

558
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: that effectively and it would be cheaper than using the

559
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: higher quality silicon exactly, So lower prices that means higher

560
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: adoption rates and uh better used for solar power all around.

561
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: Some researchers have also been using layering of different materials

562
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: with different band gaps that this is that multi junction

563
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: solar cell thing that I was talking about earlier to

564
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: improve the efficiency of solar cells overall. And the way

565
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: that these work is the top layers will absorb high

566
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: energy photons and let low energy photons slip through to

567
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: be absorbed by lower layers, which interesting and so originally

568
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: this came out of like NASA and Space Tech, but

569
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: it's pretty promising simulations is achieved fifty one eight percent

570
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: efficiency that would be incredible, which even in a laboratory

571
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: is amazing. So the interesting thing here is that and

572
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: we talked about this in our older podcast about how

573
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: if you go with the the lower energy band gaps,

574
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: you can cast that net. But the problem with going

575
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: with low energy band gaps is that you get a

576
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: very low voltage out of it. So the work you

577
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: can do with the electricity you generate is not necessarily

578
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: better than what you would if you were just going

579
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: for high energy. But by doing this multi tier approach,

580
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: you can capture all of it, which is a great idea,

581
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: or a lot more of a lot more of it

582
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: efficiency in the simulation. But still right, they're they're working

583
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: on matching current among the different sub cells because if

584
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: one sub cell is is lacking, then it's going to

585
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: throw off the entire device within this multijunction cell. So

586
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of one of those weakest link type Yeah. Yeah,

587
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: so so people are people are working on it. Um.

588
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: The other thing that I'm really excited about is completely

589
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: out there. This is quantum photovoltaics also called quantum dots

590
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: our cells quantum dots. This takes me back, yeah, yeah,

591
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: and so this is this is using matrix of finally

592
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: tuned nanocrystals instead of the typical silicon crystals that you're

593
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: that you're used to. And what's cool about these nano

594
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: crystals is that they can be tuned to specific segments

595
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: of the light spectrum um of of of these band

596
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: gaps that we've been talking about, so that cells can

597
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: capture more of the available light based on how different

598
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: bits of it are tuned. And the really exciting part

599
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: of this is that photons can hypothetically excite as many

600
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: as seven electrons per per photon. So so yeah, that's

601
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: that's where you're getting that crazy boost in efficiency right

602
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: right in Researchers at the University of Buffalo found that

603
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: they could reach a efficiency and also because you've got

604
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: fun quantum physics mucking up this business um, that's how

605
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: I call it. Yeah. Recently, an international team discovered that

606
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: that these quantum dots can self assemble into nano wires

607
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: that will more efficiently carry that current so into their

608
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: into their own pathways, like like Jonathan was talking about

609
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: earlier with when you create a pathway, you're allowing the

610
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: electron flow to happen, right right, Because if you didn't

611
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: have that barrier there to block the flow, then the

612
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: electrons would just flow automatically from the more negative side

613
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: towards the more positive side. You have to create a

614
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: barrier and then you have to create a path, and

615
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: and all of this takes work on your part, but hypothetically,

616
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: this quantum stuff can can do it for you know.

617
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: That's that's pretty cool. I've got one other alternative to

618
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: silicon based panels, and it may end up not being

619
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: an alternative but rather an augmentation. But that's for pov skites.

620
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: I have no idea if that's the right way to

621
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: say it, but this is a material that apparently the

622
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: Earth is just lousy with parov skites. This is incredibly plentiful,

623
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 1: incredibly cheap material that may in fact be a valid

624
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: alternative to silicon. You might have heard about this talked about.

625
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: I believe these are also called thin film cells. Correct, yes, yes,

626
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: So this is a it's a material that's very good

627
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: at absorbing light, and it's a semiconductor like silicon. It

628
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: could transport electric charge when a photon hits it, just

629
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: like silicon um and unlike silicon, which those panels can

630
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: be as thin as a round a hundred eighty micrometers thick.

631
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: Hundred micrometer is one millionth of a meter um. That

632
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: sounds pretty thin, but a but one made of this

633
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: other material can be less than one micrometer thick, so

634
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: the manufacturing process could be much simpler. It ends up

635
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: being you need less of this material than you would

636
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: of silicon material. Stuff is already cheaper. The sheets that

637
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: you wind up with are more applicable to two different objects.

638
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 1: They can be thin and bendy and and right, which

639
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 1: means that you're not stuck with that one form factor

640
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: that you would be with a solar panel, where you

641
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: have a more rigid, thicker material, uh, which you depending

642
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: upon what you're trying to coat, could be a big deal.

643
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: It's sort of this pigmented stuff. And uh, it's, like

644
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: I said, very cheap and could eventually lead to solar

645
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: panels that cost ten to twenty cents per what. And

646
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: I remember we're talking now around between fifty cents and

647
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: a dollar per what, depending upon how you define it.

648
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: So this would be significantly less expensive and in fact

649
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: more than comparable to fossil fuel on a per what basis.

650
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 1: Knowing that this is not really apples to apples, so

651
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: but anyway, Uh, they right now are only an efficiency

652
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: of around fifteen percent. Uh. Scientists think that they might

653
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: be able to get get it to about twenty or

654
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: twenty five percent efficiency, so much lower than some of

655
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: these other ones we're talking about. But if the cost

656
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: is much lower, then it may make sense. If it's

657
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: cheaper to to turn these out than silicon ones, even

658
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: if the silicon ones are better, it may make more

659
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: financial sense to go with this material it's cheaper in

660
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: the long run. Kind of kind of idea. Now, right now,

661
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: there's an effort to commercialize the product through a company

662
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: called Oxford Photovoltaics, which is so far raised more than

663
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: four million dollars in capital. And uh, there's also a chance,

664
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 1: because we're still seeing silicon based cellar panels, we're seeing

665
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: those prices go down over time, there's a chance that

666
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: this won't make a big impact. So because if silicon

667
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: ends up being as cheap or only a little more

668
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: expensive than this alternative solar panel, people are going to say, well,

669
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: why would I sacrifice performance for just a tiny savings.

670
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: Plus you're talking about not just people, but entire companies

671
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: that would have to create their own manufacturing processes to

672
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: build these these panels. It would require a big change

673
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: in infrastructure, and it may not be worth that investment

674
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: to change the infrastructure. Although for certain purposes. Again, when

675
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: you're talking about the rigidity of the final product, you

676
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: might wind up, yeah, finding finding benefit and using something

677
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: that's a little bit less some Yeah, if you have

678
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: around building, for example, and you want to have part

679
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: of that building like a column where there's not any

680
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: windows facing out to be a solar gathering column. Uh,

681
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: and you don't want to place a million tiny panels

682
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: on it, right, this might be a way of doing that.

683
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: It's also been discussed as a way to augment silicon

684
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: based solar pans, where you would use the pigment to

685
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: help reduce the reflectivity of the panels, just like we

686
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: were talking about with the moth eyes. It would mean

687
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: that more photons would be reflected down into the solar panel,

688
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: as opposed to bouncing off and going willy nilly to

689
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: not do anyone any good, those lazy bums. So those

690
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: are those are some other alternatives. Do you have any

691
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: others you want to talk about? Before we talk about

692
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: some of the crazy fun stuff. That's all I've got.

693
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: But before we do that, let's take a quick break

694
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. You've probably tried Hulu dot com.

695
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696
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699
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Speaker 1: you go to hul Plus dot com forward slash Tech.

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Speaker 1: That's a special offer for our listeners. Make sure you

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00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: use Hulu Plus dot com Forward slash Tech so you

712
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: get the extended free trial and they know we sent you.

713
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: Go to Hulu Plus dot com Forward slash tech now

714
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: and there are a ton of shows on there that

715
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: are some of my favorites. The I T crowd is

716
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: way up there. So you'll hear lots of I T

717
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: crowd references in our episodes if you listen hard enough.

718
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: But in order to get the references, you need to

719
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: watch the show first, So go check it out. All right,

720
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: this isn't that crazy fun. But I did run across

721
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: an article about how solar panels are coming to Ikea

722
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: that if you're in the UK, that that was where

723
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: I got the UK information right, Lauren just shook her

724
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: fist for those who are those who were curious, those

725
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: who are listening in on say the radio. I shook

726
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: my fist in the other solar panel episode and I

727
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: announced it too, because so there's some things that just

728
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: carry over. It doesn't matter. So Ikea is looking at

729
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: carrying solar panels to for customers to purchase solar solar

730
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: panel kits, So flat pack Ikea style solar panel can

731
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: go in you buy a flat pack of ike I'm

732
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: sure they'll have some sort of Swedish name that will

733
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: be hilarious and um, you'll you know, in the UK,

734
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: you can purchase these and then go and have them

735
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: installed at your home. Uh. It sounds like if it's

736
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: a successful program that it will roll out to other

737
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: parts of the world, the United States included, and it's

738
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,959
Speaker 1: you know, they're no stranger to solar power. In fact,

739
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: they use solar panels and several of their locations forty

740
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: of their US locations have solar panels energy. Yeah, they

741
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: essentially are powering their their buildings with solar energy as

742
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: much as they possibly can. So, uh, you know, now

743
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: they're looking at instead of just using it on a

744
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: corporate level, to actually offer it as a product. So

745
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see if this ends up being

746
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 1: successful because then we'll see it rolled out to other

747
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: whether whether it's really is you know, in grand Ikea style,

748
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: cheaper and easier to install. Yeah, because you can as

749
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: a customer right now. I mean, if if you're a consumer,

750
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: you can go out and buy solar panels and have

751
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: them installed in your home. There are hardware stores like

752
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: Lows that that sell solar panels. It's not like i

753
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: Kea is the first business to come out and say

754
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: we're finally making solar panels available to cut customers, but

755
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 1: it's probably the first place that you can get Swedish

756
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: meatballs and also solar panels. Yeah, at least from a

757
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: reliable source. There is a guy outside of my local

758
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: lows who sells what he calls the Swedish meatballs, but

759
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: I just don't trust them. Uh So, that was one

760
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: of the wacky things I want to talk about. But

761
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: the other one is my favorite, which is the robo raven.

762
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 1: Robo raven. Yes, so a pair of University of Maryland

763
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: professors sk Gupta and Hugh Bruck came up with along

764
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: with their students, the robo raven, which is a robotic bird.

765
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 1: It's a little robot that can fly, and flying takes

766
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: up a lot of energy. It takes up a lot

767
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: of energy for birds, and it takes up a lot

768
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: of energy for robots, as it turns out, And so

769
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: they were trying to think of ways to extend a

770
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: robot's flying life so that it would be useful. Otherwise,

771
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: you know, your typical robotic flying device is going to

772
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: have a fairly small range and half batteries are going

773
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: to run down fuel source of money. So yeah, it's

774
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: it's roaming range is going to be about half of

775
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: what you would want just based on the battery life alone.

776
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: Because if you have it go all the way out

777
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: to its battery life, then you have to go to

778
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: retrieve it. You wanted to be able to come back, right,

779
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: So they were thinking, well, how could we build something

780
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: that could recharge its batteries while it's out in the

781
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: field sometimes literally dom and then make its way back home.

782
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: And so they decided to use a special material where

783
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: they were essentially weaving in solar panels along the wings

784
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: of this robo raven. So the idea is that this

785
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: little uh, this little device, this can the micro air

786
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: vehicle can fly out. It would land when its power

787
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: would get low, and it would recharge its battery. And

788
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: now they point out that the solar panels are nowhere

789
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: near efficient enough to power the bird's flight. Yeah, it

790
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: would have to land and recharge batteries and then fly

791
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: because I think it would generate something like gather like

792
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: three point six watts and it needs thirty wats to fly,

793
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: and like it just it cannot, you know, it would

794
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: just it would just crash if you were to try

795
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: and fly it beyond its battery life. So I thought

796
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: that was yes. Now, the robo raven that plays into

797
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: the podcast, we did not that long ago about drones. Uh,

798
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 1: in this case, the robo ravens just it's a robotic bird.

799
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: It's not designed to be anything specific apart from a

800
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: robotic bird. But you could easily see this kind of

801
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: technology being used in things like environmental uh monitors, you know,

802
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: looking for things like changes in climate, changes in environment,

803
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: exploration of areas that might be difficult to get to

804
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: on foot or otherwise, or you know, surveillance. You know,

805
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: there's that fun version to whether birds are spying on

806
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: you and the robots. I don't want that. I don't

807
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: want bird shaped robots spying on me. I want that

808
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: even less than I want other robots spying on me.

809
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: In fact, I'm not sure why I have this strong emotion,

810
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: but that sounds like i've I mean, I don't know,

811
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: maybe it's watched too much Alfred Hitchcock or something. I

812
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: recommend you don't turn around then, I'm just your back

813
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: is to the window. Yeah, we have an exciting new

814
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: window in the podcast, yes, which I can look out

815
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: of and Lauren cannot because of the way we sit.

816
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: I refuse to have my back to the window, all right,

817
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's that's kind of our our update on

818
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: solar panel technolog g. You know, it's going to constantly

819
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: be this quest to eke out as much efficiency as

820
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: possible to make solar panels a true competitor when it

821
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: comes to generate electricity. Uh. And you also have to

822
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: offset the downsides to solar panels. So, for example, if

823
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: you were to try and go off the grid and

824
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: just use solar panels for your home, you would also

825
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: need some sort of energy storage device for those times

826
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: when the sun is not out and you would be

827
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: able to tap into that. So batteries essentially is what

828
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. So you could have your own on

829
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: site generator that runs on something else, but you're talking

830
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: about some other fuel. Maybe pair it with a with

831
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: a wind generator or something like that, or not a

832
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: wind generator, but a wind harvesting wind driven Yeah, that

833
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: would if you if you live in a very sunny,

834
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: windy place, that would work out well for you. If

835
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: you don't, then uh, you know, that would probably probably

836
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: be marginally improvement over just solar panels alone. I hope

837
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed that classic episode of tech Stuff. If

838
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: you have any suggestions for future topics we should cover

839
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: on the show, let me know. Send me a message

840
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: on Twitter. The handle is text stuff HS w and

841
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff is

842
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: an I heart Radio production. For more podcasts from I

843
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

844
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.