Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another edition of Nertificent. I am
Speaker 1: one half of your host, Danny Fernandez, sending it across
Speaker 1: from me as always, if you want Danny's work husband
Speaker 1: forever locked down, it's true, we do. We don't know
Speaker 1: it's true to keep to marry each other if we
Speaker 1: don't get married, people know that is absolutely not to marry. Nope,
Speaker 1: we've both already been married, so we actually don't have
Speaker 1: to do anything exactly. No. And then on top of that,
Speaker 1: people will literally hit me up. I know people hit
Speaker 1: you up though when they need my number, but people
Speaker 1: will hit me up and be like, where's your work husband?
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't, like, are you asking about where
Speaker 1: he is supposed to be on set? Like I don't
Speaker 1: know where he's got I swear yours. Yours is way
Speaker 1: cool Because when people hit me up, it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to hire people, like where's if he's bum bumself?
Speaker 1: Why isn't he on your coat tails? In this? What
Speaker 1: I was going to say is our next week, we're
Speaker 1: having our good friend Mark ellis on and I pulled
Speaker 1: up a picture of him and I'm like, oh, my hobby,
Speaker 1: because like just we actually dated, like years ago. But
Speaker 1: he's just like also one of my best friends. So
Speaker 1: I just think, like, I don't know, you all have
Speaker 1: to fight it out for ultimate best friend. Very interesting
Speaker 1: that ye had. It's years ago. Now you said that
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah it is. Oh man, time is
Speaker 1: moving way too fast. My daughter's getting older, she's learned no,
Speaker 1: not a fan of her knowing that word. She's told
Speaker 1: me to slow down. She says I drive too fast,
Speaker 1: and I'm mad because she's right. Um, but you know,
Speaker 1: you know how it goes. Do you want to introduce
Speaker 1: our guests? Yes, that third voice here is the producer
Speaker 1: of this very cast. It is a good Man and
Speaker 1: his name is Dan Goodman. Hey, yeah, how many times
Speaker 1: have people done that? Well? Actually, how many podcast do
Speaker 1: you produce? Yeah? Um, I produced quite a few. I'm
Speaker 1: more of like a executive producer on things like Daily Zicos,
Speaker 1: which is mostly Ana Hosni's Beast, things like Worst Year Ever,
Speaker 1: which is mostly Sophie Sophie Lichtman's but Chelsea Handler, which
Speaker 1: was also Sophie's. I mostly do editing and engineering and
Speaker 1: recording and stuff like that. But I you know, I've
Speaker 1: been working with you all for a long time, over
Speaker 1: a year. I think so before Will Ferrell invaded, before
Speaker 1: before I Heart took over. Yeah, we do like y'all.
Speaker 1: Uh I Heart, who obviously the president of I Heart
Speaker 1: listens to every episode. Yeah, Bob Bittman, Hey, how are
Speaker 1: you doing? But how you doing? Settling? It's a good one.
Speaker 1: We love Mr Heart Radio. What is his good heartbeat?
Speaker 1: His heartbeat? Um, Dan, what are you geeking out about
Speaker 1: this week? I'm geeking out about death stranding. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people are geeking ot about death standing
Speaker 1: right now. But I'm just really enjoying it. It hits that,
Speaker 1: you know, little nerve of I don't know, package delivery
Speaker 1: is like really therapeutic. I guess I'm just driving around
Speaker 1: this weird landscape has been a lot of fun. That's
Speaker 1: been the wild thing to me is that that is
Speaker 1: the game. You're just a ups guy and people are
Speaker 1: having a blast. I'm gonna get into it invidually, but
Speaker 1: there has been an influxive game between that and Pokemon
Speaker 1: Sword and Shield and you know, Jedi Fallen Order. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of games coming out right now. What
Speaker 1: about you, Danny Well, I thought you were going to
Speaker 1: take mine, but I guess I get to go for
Speaker 1: a baby Yoda. Yeah. Also, it's just like taking over
Speaker 1: my Twitter feed, like there could not be more. I think.
Speaker 1: I tweeted though, and I made people. I said, baby
Speaker 1: Yoda isn't vaccinated. Remember who's obsessed with Baby Yoda? Now,
Speaker 1: was like, let me have one thing that's facts though,
Speaker 1: that's true. It's kind of true. Baby Yoda can't go
Speaker 1: to pretty school yet. Well, and then it was yeah.
Speaker 1: And then it was really funny because John Favreau actually
Speaker 1: tweeted the concept art and and somebody replied, Jeremy um Simser,
Speaker 1: who's actually working. He's like the storyboard artist from one division,
Speaker 1: which is I think it gonna be on Disney Plus, right,
Speaker 1: And so John tweeted the concept art for Baby Yoda,
Speaker 1: and Jeremy was like, so you just went with the
Speaker 1: first thing baby. It was like tool tee what we saw.
Speaker 1: So anyways, that's that's a good thing. Well, what I'm
Speaker 1: geeking out besides Baby Yoda is Pokemon Sword and Shield,
Speaker 1: and this is the first time and they streamlined so
Speaker 1: many things, and you know, some people feel some way,
Speaker 1: some people don't. There's no longer any e V training
Speaker 1: because they're the like stats aren't capped anymore. It's very
Speaker 1: like when you catch or fight Pokemon, it automatically goes
Speaker 1: through the whole party, so everyone. You know, some people
Speaker 1: might be like it's easier, but I'm like, great, I'm
Speaker 1: an adult now I have responsibility. So right before I sleep,
Speaker 1: I can just sit back and just power level. Like
Speaker 1: it's funny that even though it's easier, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: still gonna power level, so I just one shot every
Speaker 1: every Pokemon that comes at me. So that is kind
Speaker 1: of like I want to say, taken over my life,
Speaker 1: but really it's just kind of been there for me
Speaker 1: when I just have some downtime. So that has been
Speaker 1: popping up in the news a lot. Would you say
Speaker 1: none of the hate is justified? I have no opinion
Speaker 1: on this. I haven't played the game, and I think
Speaker 1: all internet wining is lame. But yeah, I mean, what's
Speaker 1: your take on it? Yeah? It this I it's very
Speaker 1: complicated because like I as the one who like just
Speaker 1: enjoys whatever they give to me, like in a Pokemon game,
Speaker 1: I'll be fine. I mean, like it's a very fine game.
Speaker 1: It plays just well, and it seems like the things
Speaker 1: people are mad about are like almost like very nitpicky,
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, there's not the national Poka decks
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And I think it's I do
Speaker 1: come from a weird place knowing like wanting to go
Speaker 1: in the game design. Being in a place where I
Speaker 1: work with gaming, I know what goes in a game design,
Speaker 1: and a lot of time the consumer ask for things
Speaker 1: without even considering like what has to go in it?
Speaker 1: You know you you don't like they and and like
Speaker 1: then like people get very like weirdly nuanced with their
Speaker 1: thing where it's like if they would have just said
Speaker 1: I was like, well, how about for once in your
Speaker 1: life you give someone the benefit of the doubt. Now
Speaker 1: about instead of saying like if they would have just
Speaker 1: did this, you just go like, well, maybe they wanted
Speaker 1: to do this and they didn't, but we don't. We're
Speaker 1: we're at this weird place. And I and I have
Speaker 1: a creeping suspicion, uh that they're going to release a
Speaker 1: Snyder cut because it's because they across the board have
Speaker 1: have had all the actors that have been a part
Speaker 1: of it saying it's I think it's time to release,
Speaker 1: and it feels like a social media campaign. And I
Speaker 1: don't like the culture of allowing people to just yell
Speaker 1: at yell at creators to get what they want. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, there are some people out there
Speaker 1: who make, you know, a like genuine criticism and desires
Speaker 1: and being great about it. But for every one of
Speaker 1: those people, there are twenty anime avatars saying heinous stuff
Speaker 1: to creators. And and so I don't know, the game
Speaker 1: freak thing, it seemed like just don't buy it, like
Speaker 1: we It's always this in gaming. This has kind of
Speaker 1: been a circular thing where like there's a large pitchfork
Speaker 1: gang of people mad about something in games, and then
Speaker 1: you have the other side that goes, then don't buy it,
Speaker 1: but they The part that scares me is also when
Speaker 1: it comes to casting, Like, you know, we haven't seen
Speaker 1: that quite yet. We've seen it a little bit, and
Speaker 1: some of the backlash with casting has been justified, like
Speaker 1: if um whitewashed or something. But when I think of
Speaker 1: like casting that I'm afraid of in that world, it
Speaker 1: would be like when people freaked out about Heath Ledger
Speaker 1: being cast as a joker, or even if you go
Speaker 1: all the way back to like if there was social
Speaker 1: media back then Michael key in being at Batman, like,
Speaker 1: you know, nobody believed in them, and so like, is
Speaker 1: that how far it's gonna go? Like if somebody one
Speaker 1: of us here on this podcast gets cast in a
Speaker 1: role and you know, for a superhero or a villain
Speaker 1: and uh, and then people are all mad and they're like, no,
Speaker 1: I wanted Gina Rodriguez. And then it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: if enough people scream about it, are they gonna as
Speaker 1: a studio going to give in? Like that's the thing
Speaker 1: that kind of scares me. I'm a selfish standpoint. I
Speaker 1: love love, love, love love that you used Heath Leather
Speaker 1: Ledger as an example because I think and even now,
Speaker 1: the same thing people were mad at Joaquin Phoenix. Now
Speaker 1: Joker fans are like coming at anyone's neck who doesn't
Speaker 1: like it. But they it was the same people who
Speaker 1: were like, oh this, I don't like this. I don't
Speaker 1: like this, And now you're threatening critics and like docs
Speaker 1: and critics over the guy that you didn't want. And
Speaker 1: then the same thing, Heath Ledger came out and now
Speaker 1: he's untouchable. No one will beat that role. But y'all
Speaker 1: did not like it. How about you just wait till
Speaker 1: the movie comes out and then see what you think
Speaker 1: before making yourself look silly by doing that. It's a
Speaker 1: shocking problem. But and I think the thing that makes
Speaker 1: it so wild is that they just pretend like that
Speaker 1: never happened. Like you're not seeing anyone online talking about
Speaker 1: how they were, how they were wrong about the one
Speaker 1: they're just and that Oh Daniel Craig, remember we talked
Speaker 1: about him being cast with James con Like, my main
Speaker 1: thing is that, like, it scares me now because nobody
Speaker 1: was really listening back then, like they took it in
Speaker 1: and they were like, okay, whatever. But now that social
Speaker 1: media is so prominent, it scares me that it might
Speaker 1: seep into not just like changing story or changing this,
Speaker 1: but actually changing the actors that are cast. I think
Speaker 1: it'll only work for NERD properties because I think Hollywood
Speaker 1: has a very strong ego and they'll be damned if
Speaker 1: they let some dorks online tell them what to do,
Speaker 1: you know, because because well, we can get them to
Speaker 1: change Sonic, we can get them to uh, we can
Speaker 1: get them to change releases nighter cut, but we won't
Speaker 1: be able to stop them from letting white ladies write
Speaker 1: K pop stories, you know, like like like they're they're
Speaker 1: still gonna They're still gonna do what they want and
Speaker 1: you know what, hey rebel, you know you might nail it.
Speaker 1: I'll have to wait and see. But also every because
Speaker 1: there was a there was a thing where like there
Speaker 1: was the one side of me that was like, oh man,
Speaker 1: we should wait and see. But then there's the other
Speaker 1: side of me thinking about that, like Korean American who
Speaker 1: was writing a K pop story, who now doesn't get
Speaker 1: to tell tell it because now that is saying So
Speaker 1: that's like the kind of like toss up of it
Speaker 1: is like when someone interjects with like a specific cultural story,
Speaker 1: if someone from that culture is writing that story, that
Speaker 1: that is now harder for them to sell because they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know it's great. I mean they were or you know,
Speaker 1: who knows, they'll they might have already passed on a
Speaker 1: K pop and then they're gonna push this one cough
Speaker 1: cough book of life, Coco, I'm looking at you. Even
Speaker 1: though Coco was amazing and there were great Latin American people,
Speaker 1: a part of Coco implicated we're talking about mobiles today. No, actually,
Speaker 1: I will point out that that is a great segue,
Speaker 1: because speaking of complicated and speaking of gamings, that is
Speaker 1: what mobile's a k a. Multiplayer online battle arenas are
Speaker 1: so uh um and they're They're also known by very
Speaker 1: very very very very through a few people as action
Speaker 1: real time strategy games, but it's a subgenre of strategy
Speaker 1: video games that originated as a subgenre of real time
Speaker 1: strategy games, in which each player controls a single character,
Speaker 1: usually on a map in an isometric perspective, which is
Speaker 1: more like a top down esque for these in layman's terms,
Speaker 1: and you're a part of a team competing against another
Speaker 1: team of players. The ultimate objective is to destroy the
Speaker 1: opposing team's main structure with the assistance of periodically spawned
Speaker 1: computer controlled units also known as AI, artificial intelligent units
Speaker 1: that march forward along set paths. However, mobile games, which
Speaker 1: is sure for multiple are online battle arena can have
Speaker 1: other victory conditions, such as defeating every player on the
Speaker 1: enemy team. Player characters typically have a set of unique
Speaker 1: abilities that improve over the course of games, which contribute
Speaker 1: to a team's overall strategy. Multiplayer online battle arena games
Speaker 1: are a fusion of real time strategy, role playing and
Speaker 1: action games. And though mobile players usually do not construct
Speaker 1: buildings or units, there are examples of mobile games that
Speaker 1: cannot be considered RTS at all, such as Smite and Paragon.
Speaker 1: The genre is a big part of the sports community.
Speaker 1: And that's the last I'll probably reference this doc because
Speaker 1: this is something I do know very well. As a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, before we even go into this, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just double check. I'm gonna scroll to see what
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. Boom can't curse. And I was
Speaker 1: really proud of how writing am Mobile's started as a
Speaker 1: as a mod which mods I know, we we have,
Speaker 1: we have even got that deep into mods really on
Speaker 1: but mods are PC gaming, which is one of the
Speaker 1: most fun ways to game. No no hate for my
Speaker 1: console fan, but PC gaming. One of the big draws
Speaker 1: to it is that you can do mods to games.
Speaker 1: You can have like modifications. And one of the biggest
Speaker 1: kind of like parts of that community was the RTS
Speaker 1: real time strategy community because you were able to build
Speaker 1: maps and then upload them to the game service for
Speaker 1: people to play. But because as we know, nerds always
Speaker 1: take things to the next level, They're like, what about
Speaker 1: instead of maps, we just made whole new game modes.
Speaker 1: So there are a whole different type of game modes
Speaker 1: where like it wasn't just mobis. They were like some
Speaker 1: like just like strategy, farm and shooting. Looking at the history,
Speaker 1: StarCraft was a popular real time strategy game. Blizzard released
Speaker 1: it in became famous in a very short amount of time. Um,
Speaker 1: if you tell people what StarCraft? What is that? What
Speaker 1: is it like to play it? Oh? Man, Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: talk about StarCraft. StarCraft is very very very very important
Speaker 1: to gaming and esports. Uh, it's it's it's like, just
Speaker 1: I want to put some respect on their name. So
Speaker 1: there was Warcraft, which eventually built the lore and led
Speaker 1: to the game World of Warcraft, which became its own beast.
Speaker 1: But Blizzard was like, hey, you know, let's get innovative.
Speaker 1: What if we did a sci fi version of Warcraft? Now,
Speaker 1: just to for anyone who is not familiar with the
Speaker 1: Craft games at all. Typically it's a real time strategy game. Uh,
Speaker 1: that kind of goes like this. You start off with
Speaker 1: a base and you have units, and you build worker
Speaker 1: units who can farm for resources usually minerals and gold.
Speaker 1: Use those resources to build a base of barracks. Then
Speaker 1: you upgrade your weapons for more uh for stronger units
Speaker 1: as the game progresses, and then the first one to
Speaker 1: destroy the other players home base wins and the game
Speaker 1: had like a story that went along with it. But
Speaker 1: the game as itself, like the that's the multiplayer aspect
Speaker 1: of the game, StarCraft does the same thing. Uh, it
Speaker 1: involves other races. So you have the Terrens which were
Speaker 1: the humans, you have the pro Toss which were these
Speaker 1: weird alien dyes in the Zourg who were these beasts.
Speaker 1: And then like I said before, you were able to
Speaker 1: update upload maps, and then you had mods. So StarCraft
Speaker 1: is very important to the gaming and the sports community
Speaker 1: because of this reason, StarCraft blew up out here very
Speaker 1: much so. But as the US move on to other
Speaker 1: games and flighty as we are, Korea stick to StarCraft
Speaker 1: and was having huge million dollar tournaments overseas for this game,
Speaker 1: which in turn will eventually be the thing that turns
Speaker 1: the tide for America to finally get the picture and
Speaker 1: go like e sports is big over here because America
Speaker 1: has like always had an e sports community, but it's
Speaker 1: always been bigger in Korea. And this is very important,
Speaker 1: like seed to plant now because within this story you
Speaker 1: will see how they bridge the gap between how big
Speaker 1: StarCraft is in Korea to how it gets big over here.
Speaker 1: It's it's within this story. Dan is shaking his head
Speaker 1: in agreement, absolutely, and it's it's kind of cool. Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say, I mean, I would say E sports
Speaker 1: in general really like bloomed in Korea and how that
Speaker 1: community took E sports and saw them as an event
Speaker 1: that could honestly make money. If I'm just being real,
Speaker 1: They were like, let's just put a bunch of money
Speaker 1: into this. A lot of people want to watch this,
Speaker 1: They're coming out to these events, and like Korean StarCraft
Speaker 1: is where E sports was really kind of you know, exploding,
Speaker 1: and Ye showed how it could be. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing. I mean, Danny and I
Speaker 1: talked about it on like our episode about careers. But
Speaker 1: really everything is driven by money. I mean, that's why
Speaker 1: we have Transformers, you know, it was to sell toys
Speaker 1: like money. I mean, money is the root of all evil,
Speaker 1: but is also the driver of all like capitalist. Once
Speaker 1: you get money involved, it can really catalyze a lot
Speaker 1: of different things. But the first E sports event I
Speaker 1: see saw on television actual television, was a Korean StarCraft
Speaker 1: tournament being telecast on like ABC or NBC. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: So we have this game StarCraft and there's a there's
Speaker 1: a player called aon sixty four who created a map
Speaker 1: called a on of Strife and this was like the
Speaker 1: first brick of like the mobile game UH. And in
Speaker 1: this map, players controlled the single unit and fall a
Speaker 1: team against AI units in three lanes. The basis of
Speaker 1: the two teams were at the end of three lanes
Speaker 1: and the objective was to destroy the other team space.
Speaker 1: So this is like the skeletons of a mobile, because
Speaker 1: that's one of the main things I think. Just right off, rip,
Speaker 1: I can tell you the wind condition and most mobiles
Speaker 1: is to destroy the other team's main base, with their
Speaker 1: usually almost always being three lanes, and there are towers,
Speaker 1: UH tiered towers on each team side, so most teams
Speaker 1: have two towers before you get to the inner home
Speaker 1: base tower, and you it's kind of like a slow
Speaker 1: game of attrition between the two teams UM. And the
Speaker 1: reason these units are so important is because obviously since
Speaker 1: you have UH usually about five like player characters, sometimes
Speaker 1: they're going to be going to the other lanes to
Speaker 1: help each other out and while that's happening, you still
Speaker 1: have your AI controlled units attacking. Yeah, that was a
Speaker 1: big development that came with a DODA after a on Strife,
Speaker 1: and Strife was really what developed or what like set
Speaker 1: the standard of the three lanes and then and we
Speaker 1: don't need to move on quite yet, but yeah, it
Speaker 1: was three lanes four v four. It was like the
Speaker 1: max that the map would allow at the time, and
Speaker 1: it was the kind of thing where players were like,
Speaker 1: we can't really split evenly amongst these three lanes with
Speaker 1: four players on each side, and it kind of developed
Speaker 1: a meta of having different types of players played together
Speaker 1: as a team in different lanes. To you know, that
Speaker 1: just started the meta of of of two players working together,
Speaker 1: one acting as a support to the other player, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of started there. So can you, um, can
Speaker 1: you explain what DODA is to people? Sure? Absolutely, So.
Speaker 1: DOTA is short for Defense of the Ancients. It was
Speaker 1: a custom map made within Warcraft three by this guy
Speaker 1: named yule Um real name Kyle Summer Summer and it
Speaker 1: really developed on the mobile developed on and Strife by
Speaker 1: giving the map a lot more character, developing it significantly
Speaker 1: graphically and also just shape wise and strife really played
Speaker 1: as a left or right kind of map, whereas DODA
Speaker 1: is much more of a square where the lanes peek
Speaker 1: up the the outsides and insides, with a big middle
Speaker 1: lane that goes across the center diagonally, and a Dota
Speaker 1: added something very specific that has, you know, maintained throughout
Speaker 1: all of mobile's any kind of mobile, which is the jungle.
Speaker 1: And the jungle was the way to get in between
Speaker 1: each lanes, and it added a whole another role to
Speaker 1: mobile's which was the jungler, the person whose job it
Speaker 1: was strictly to help out their teammates in their own
Speaker 1: solo lanes. Yeah. So typically, you know, as we go
Speaker 1: through the history will also be refreshing with just straight
Speaker 1: up you know mobile knowledge. Typically the main roles that
Speaker 1: you have for the lanes is top, which is exactly
Speaker 1: like it sounds. The top lane, which is usually a
Speaker 1: solo player who's pushing with usually a beef, your tanker
Speaker 1: tank your champion, because you're doing that by yourself. Then
Speaker 1: you have mid, which is usually like a newker champion
Speaker 1: or a mage because that since that's the shortest lane,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of back and forth and it's kind
Speaker 1: of the most contentious point. Then you have the bottom lane,
Speaker 1: which usually has two shared roles, which is the A
Speaker 1: d C, which attack damage carry I think like a
Speaker 1: glass cannon. Yeah. And then you have your support which
Speaker 1: is there to protect the attack damage carry, making sure
Speaker 1: and it's and it's not as simple as just kind
Speaker 1: of playing because also as the support, you have to
Speaker 1: make sure you're not stealing any of the creep kills, which,
Speaker 1: like I said, we'd said this is complicated. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about creep kills. So those little AI controlled units are
Speaker 1: known as creeps, and you get experience for killing them
Speaker 1: only if you get the last hit on them. So
Speaker 1: you get you get some experience for killing them, but
Speaker 1: you get more if you get the last hit. So
Speaker 1: that means that the A d C has to time
Speaker 1: that both the A d C, the top and mid
Speaker 1: have to time their hits to make sure they get
Speaker 1: the last hit, which means that the support needs to
Speaker 1: be protecting them because that's where the other team will
Speaker 1: try and harass to make sure you're not getting all
Speaker 1: your last hits. It's a very I would compare it
Speaker 1: to almost football and why I think it helped in
Speaker 1: pushing the sports because this all sounds complicated, but if
Speaker 1: you're watching it, it kind of makes sense. Like you
Speaker 1: may not know like the minutiae of what's going on,
Speaker 1: but you can kind of visually see what's going on.
Speaker 1: I think like the battle of a creep is a
Speaker 1: really good compare us into things. Like you said, with football,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like running plays where you're using these
Speaker 1: short kind of you know, things that you know you
Speaker 1: can make progress on to make small leaps across the field.
Speaker 1: It's like, if you know that you are going to
Speaker 1: be able to get all of your creep kills, you
Speaker 1: can really concentrate on that to create a small advantage
Speaker 1: over your opponent, especially in the beginning of the game. Yes,
Speaker 1: another thing just about the creep kills, just to go
Speaker 1: back to that real fast that they also give you money,
Speaker 1: which is another big important thing about mobis in general.
Speaker 1: The money that you get allows you to buy items
Speaker 1: back at your home base, and those items make your
Speaker 1: character better. As well as getting experience and leveling up
Speaker 1: making your abilities better, the items you get also buff
Speaker 1: your abilities and your power and just make you stronger,
Speaker 1: so that getting creep is not only just a small
Speaker 1: advantage in the actual lanes. It's it's it's crucial to
Speaker 1: your development throughout the game of getting items and leveling
Speaker 1: up and stuff like that. So if I can just
Speaker 1: take two steps back and suck us out into the
Speaker 1: minution and just taking and that's where the RPG element
Speaker 1: comes in, right because now you're having you know, you're
Speaker 1: you're kind of doing what all across all RPGs we
Speaker 1: know as a build, you're trying to build specific stats,
Speaker 1: specific armor, specific things, and lots of players go into
Speaker 1: this knowing what they want to buy, and that's and
Speaker 1: that's what that's the kind of fun of it is everyone.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the kind of fun and the toxicity
Speaker 1: of it, which I think will save the toxicity of
Speaker 1: the community to uh to to later because it's there
Speaker 1: and I have lots of theories why speaking of later,
Speaker 1: we have to take a really quick break and then
Speaker 1: we're going to hop back into Mobi's right after this,
Speaker 1: and we're back we're still talking about Mobi's. Um if
Speaker 1: you tell people about League of Legends, oh man, So
Speaker 1: League of Legends was the first stand alone mobile game,
Speaker 1: because at this point, when we're talking about Dota, Dota
Speaker 1: is a mod that so I I got an a
Speaker 1: Dota who if we go way back? I was, I
Speaker 1: just moved back in with my dad. I'm lake Elsinore.
Speaker 1: I was taking computer science courses because I still thought
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a programmer game designer. And I
Speaker 1: there was this kid in my uh computer science class
Speaker 1: because because of course, and he was like, you gotta
Speaker 1: play this game Doda. Doda is the game. And he's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna have to buy Warcraft three and Frozen
Speaker 1: and I was like, what, like a way, you just
Speaker 1: made me have to buy two games to play one? Uh?
Speaker 1: And so so Legal Legends was the like first game
Speaker 1: where you just bought. You just bought that game, and
Speaker 1: it was a standalone game. And all these characters in
Speaker 1: League are based off of known characters in Dota. That's
Speaker 1: definitely true. I do want to point out though, that
Speaker 1: a major difference between League and Doda was that League
Speaker 1: has actually always been free. Yeah. League was always a
Speaker 1: free to play game. And so when that came out
Speaker 1: as a stand alone and people were like, wait, I
Speaker 1: don't have to pay for this, oh, I think I
Speaker 1: actually kind of do want to. I do want to
Speaker 1: get into this game because of their experience with DODA
Speaker 1: and what they heard, and then basically someone was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you can get it for free though, and they're like, oh, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not playing this Doda game anymore. I know. It
Speaker 1: really did make it way more enticing. And I mean
Speaker 1: this is another we talk about, you know, east, how
Speaker 1: StarCraft kind of led e sports and all this. I
Speaker 1: also want to talk about how League and soon Dota
Speaker 1: kind of let the charge in micro transactions and eventually
Speaker 1: what we've known in uh in um Fortnite and Apex
Speaker 1: is the battle pass. Like a lot of people, I
Speaker 1: don't think people put enough respect on the fact that
Speaker 1: that came from like the international stuff like that very good.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, you know everyone sleeps on it, mostly because
Speaker 1: I think not a lot of people play Dota too.
Speaker 1: But yes, um so yeah. The formal author of DODA,
Speaker 1: which was Win Sue, partnered with Brandon Beck and Mark
Speaker 1: Merrill to form Riot Games and developed League of Legends.
Speaker 1: League had a similar place out of Dota, but was
Speaker 1: developed on a completely unique map with unique champions. Most
Speaker 1: importantly was that it was free to play, like Dan said,
Speaker 1: and that made it way more enticing and uh, but
Speaker 1: then In two thousand nine, the same year that league launched, UH,
Speaker 1: famed Hall half Life developer at Valve announced that it
Speaker 1: had hired ice Frog, that the moder that had taken
Speaker 1: over maintaining Dota All Stars after Freak left for Riot Games.
Speaker 1: And ice Frog and Valve we're working on Dota to
Speaker 1: another standalone successor to the original DODA and UH, Dota
Speaker 1: two was UH. What was interesting is because you might
Speaker 1: be listening to this and be like, oh, then are
Speaker 1: they the same? No, they are two very different games.
Speaker 1: And I say that as someone who's played and kind
Speaker 1: of plays both. DODA was incredibly faithful to the original
Speaker 1: Warcraft three map and it had a much nicer epics
Speaker 1: obviously because it was updated and it was free to
Speaker 1: play as well. I just wanted to say a quick
Speaker 1: thing about ice Frog. So ice Frog was the lead developer,
Speaker 1: like if he said, for Dota two and the original UH.
Speaker 1: In the original DODA. To date, he has remained pseudonymous,
Speaker 1: and other than revealing that he was twenty five years
Speaker 1: old and that and that was back in two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, um characteristics such as his physical description and
Speaker 1: real name are unknown. Although it's the Internet, so I'm
Speaker 1: sure they're known, especially in that community. Um ice Frog
Speaker 1: speaks English and Chinese, which he learned in order to
Speaker 1: better communicate with Doda's large fan base in China. Um
Speaker 1: I just find this fascinating that this was a five
Speaker 1: year old who was like, Oh, I know how to
Speaker 1: make this game better. How exactly moving forward after that,
Speaker 1: does he get paid? Oh? Yeah, No, when he got
Speaker 1: brought onto the team, he was. But before that he
Speaker 1: kind of was doing it right free. Then they were,
Speaker 1: but then they hired him. Yeah, So before that, whenever
Speaker 1: you saw Moths lots of time. Sometimes times they'd have
Speaker 1: like PayPal donation stuff, but for the most part, you're
Speaker 1: doing it for the like love of it. And this
Speaker 1: that was the cool part about mods is sometimes you
Speaker 1: got like you got to be a developer. I think
Speaker 1: the closest example to that was a Player Unknown Battlegrounds
Speaker 1: originally was a mod to uh Armor, which was a
Speaker 1: very realistic war shooter, and then that turned into h
Speaker 1: one z one, which he went and developed, and then
Speaker 1: he went and left the h one z one team
Speaker 1: to develop Player and Own Battlegrounds. So he went on
Speaker 1: to develop two different games, and I believe another Armor
Speaker 1: mod Daisy got their own standalone game. So this was
Speaker 1: and this isn't uncommon, like lots of times if a
Speaker 1: mod gets popular, they would be the person would be
Speaker 1: tapped to make a real game. It's happening right now
Speaker 1: again as a matter of fact, with this new game
Speaker 1: type called auto Chess. Auto Chess another mod made out
Speaker 1: of Dota two. So there was a modification of a
Speaker 1: modification game that created this kind of chess game type
Speaker 1: that League of Legends once again borrowed with big old
Speaker 1: air quotes to make their own title team fight tactics.
Speaker 1: And it's another kind of just game type built out
Speaker 1: of the same game. And I think it kind of
Speaker 1: goes back to what you were talking to like the
Speaker 1: very beginning about how like the audience being able to
Speaker 1: interact with the product has like positives and negatives, Like
Speaker 1: when you're just yelling at something, it doesn't do anything,
Speaker 1: but like when you have the ability to interact with it,
Speaker 1: you just get the positives of negatives of people like
Speaker 1: either play this or I don't like League of Legends.
Speaker 1: People have been trying to mode League of Legends in
Speaker 1: different ways. If you go to the Dota two custom maps,
Speaker 1: there are several. It's not just auto chess. There are
Speaker 1: so many different modeed things in different ways to play
Speaker 1: the game, but auto chess was the cream that rise
Speaker 1: to the top. And so you know, the modification community
Speaker 1: has really I think, you know, StarCraft deserves a lot
Speaker 1: of credit. Valve for Dota allowing this deserves a lot
Speaker 1: of credit. League of Legend Right Games to a certain
Speaker 1: extent being like, yes, Monty is good. We'll take those
Speaker 1: ideas and do them ourselves. I mean, you're not losing
Speaker 1: anything by no, Yeah, and in fact it might be
Speaker 1: even getting jobs because of that. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that's the interesting thing is, like, you know, games have
Speaker 1: been doing the fun thing of like borrowing it and
Speaker 1: putting its own spin to it. Like I mentioned, H
Speaker 1: one z one spawned Player Unknown battle Grounds, which then
Speaker 1: spawned Epic two as a fluke at a Battle Royale
Speaker 1: version to their like tower defense game. That was the
Speaker 1: game they were trying to make a tower defense game,
Speaker 1: and then their Battle Royal game blew up so much
Speaker 1: that they're like, all right, well this is the game.
Speaker 1: They made a billion dollars. You know, it's just so
Speaker 1: funny and that now we're seeing the same thing happen
Speaker 1: when Auto Chess, where it was a valve thing, then
Speaker 1: Leak doesn't, and now Hearthstone is doing their own version
Speaker 1: of Auto chest It's it's just a fun thing of
Speaker 1: just like and one out of those people will have
Speaker 1: a favorite. So now after League of Legends they have well,
Speaker 1: League of Legends is kind of like it's kind of
Speaker 1: at the peak right now, whereas they're developing League and
Speaker 1: making it more and more, and uh, Dota two has
Speaker 1: kind of also cemented itself in this place, like E
Speaker 1: sports has really solidified these games as just mainstays in
Speaker 1: the gaming community, and it's only you know, people are
Speaker 1: looking to those companies in general to make new stuff
Speaker 1: alongside these other games because they are just such mainstays.
Speaker 1: Like there's League Legends is still the most popular game
Speaker 1: in the world bar none. Like it's played the most
Speaker 1: everywhere in the world, and it's frankly, it's like not stopping.
Speaker 1: They're making so much money on micro transactions on skins.
Speaker 1: They just did a collab with Louis Vatan that it's
Speaker 1: like there's there is no end in sight to the
Speaker 1: money that Legal Legends. I will briefly talk about like
Speaker 1: the other moments that kind of came and went because
Speaker 1: of it. But this is I think where the more
Speaker 1: fun discussion is going to be happened, because I really
Speaker 1: want to talk about the influence Mobis has had on
Speaker 1: the gaming community as a whole, because mobile's for the
Speaker 1: most part, is a taste maker game. Like not everyone's
Speaker 1: into it. It's and you know, it is like most
Speaker 1: games in a mobile is at least a thirty minute
Speaker 1: investment for one game, So it's it's definitely not for everyone.
Speaker 1: But the things that they've done that have worked and
Speaker 1: been so successful or why a lot of our favorite
Speaker 1: games are successful. But you know, we got to talk
Speaker 1: about Smite. Smite is still sticking in there, and Smite
Speaker 1: they're spin on it is that it's more of a
Speaker 1: third person version, so you're it's you're you're not getting
Speaker 1: the like top down view it. It makes it a
Speaker 1: little more action base. But then you know, you had
Speaker 1: Paragon rest in Peace. That's you know, that was that
Speaker 1: and and that Paragon is a rest in Peace only
Speaker 1: because of Fortnite. Paragon made by Epic Games. Yeah, Paragon
Speaker 1: was made by Epic Games. It was there, and like,
Speaker 1: to be honest, it wasn't like it was a smash
Speaker 1: it but there was a debtic a community. When I played,
Speaker 1: there was a whole Yeah, I was playing, but Fortnite
Speaker 1: was made a billion dollars and they said, this is
Speaker 1: where we're gonna put and who's gonna blame them? If
Speaker 1: you make a billion dollars, Danny, if you off of
Speaker 1: a fluke recorded an R and B single and someone
Speaker 1: gave you a billion dollars, would you still be writing
Speaker 1: or would you do another? Would you do another album?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm too creative. Take all that money. Make
Speaker 1: a horror film. That's great? Oh man, I mean I
Speaker 1: have to. I I give Epic Games credit and that
Speaker 1: they make so much money off of the Unreal engine
Speaker 1: and every game that uses it that you know, we
Speaker 1: have to do a sidebar on that. Sure, So Epic
Speaker 1: Games makes the Unreal engine, which if that sounds familiar,
Speaker 1: it's because it's kind of the engine that used to
Speaker 1: make Unreal Tournament back in the day and kind of
Speaker 1: has been the industry standard. Every game you play for
Speaker 1: the engine, but because they make the engine, game companies
Speaker 1: have to pay them to use the Unreal It was.
Speaker 1: It was essentially was like creating the video game Wheel.
Speaker 1: They were like, we so honestly all the money, like
Speaker 1: they kind of have this like flow of income, and personally,
Speaker 1: I think they should be way more experimental, like when
Speaker 1: you have like that much flow, and they've been they
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like Fortnite and itself was kind
Speaker 1: of an experiment. Definitely just just the game, not even
Speaker 1: the Battle Royale. The Fortnite as a tower defense and
Speaker 1: it was kind of fun. I got into it, and
Speaker 1: man it was it was crazy. It was wild watching
Speaker 1: Fortnite happen real time because there are some people who
Speaker 1: are coming in now, but if you were someone who
Speaker 1: played it, this Battle Royale thing really was just a
Speaker 1: side thing. Like it was like imagine if Nokia stopped
Speaker 1: making cell phones and only made snake Like that's what
Speaker 1: Fortnite was for the Yeah, um, they just you I
Speaker 1: mean they you know, they had all the money. They
Speaker 1: used it, but they were very quick to cut stuff
Speaker 1: that wasn't working. Like we were just talking about Paragon.
Speaker 1: I was one of those people who threw twenty dollars
Speaker 1: out of Founder's pack and they I'll say this to
Speaker 1: their credit, they had enough money from Fortnite that when
Speaker 1: they closed the servers for Paragon. They refunded every single
Speaker 1: player for every dollar they spent on Paragon. If you
Speaker 1: bought a skin, if you bought a Founder's pack, if
Speaker 1: you want anything. They were like, you know what are bad?
Speaker 1: We close the game, here's your money back, which is wild.
Speaker 1: The company had enough money to refund every player, which
Speaker 1: is that that's truly unheard of if you don't game
Speaker 1: that never happens never like and and really like gaming
Speaker 1: has is in a new Okay, I feel like there's
Speaker 1: lots of nuggets we we have stopped on. So like
Speaker 1: back in the day that games that we are used
Speaker 1: to console games, a game comes out, you buy it
Speaker 1: when it's done. Now we're in an era on PC
Speaker 1: gaming where there's a thing called early access games, and
Speaker 1: it's almost like you buy into the game before it's finished,
Speaker 1: and you hope that it finishes one day. You pray
Speaker 1: that it finishes one day, but you were essentially buying
Speaker 1: an incomplete game, sometimes at a lower price than when
Speaker 1: it does a full release, uh, in the hopes that
Speaker 1: you know, you're supporting them developing it. And this was
Speaker 1: originally away for smaller developers to do it. And then
Speaker 1: somewhere along the way, larger developers just started doing it.
Speaker 1: They were like, we can get away with and it's
Speaker 1: just created an interesting culture because sometimes you do have
Speaker 1: people who like player on the battlegrounds. Pub G was
Speaker 1: a was a early access game when it launched. Some
Speaker 1: may argue it was still early acts. Yeah, and now
Speaker 1: they've kind of gotten their footing, but the damage has
Speaker 1: already been done because in that time, Fortnite came out,
Speaker 1: Fortnite Apex Legends, Yeah, I can talk about there's so
Speaker 1: many came out and after that day, I love it
Speaker 1: so much. But to go get back to uh Mobile's
Speaker 1: so you had like your paragrams, you had your Smite.
Speaker 1: Smite still standing right now. I think if you had
Speaker 1: to say that it goes League Doda Smite and now
Speaker 1: there's a few mobile mobiles that that are getting some tracks.
Speaker 1: Is definitely picking up a little bit. It's very interesting
Speaker 1: because that whole it's a whole another subject we can
Speaker 1: get into with mobile games, where mobile games are really
Speaker 1: on a path now and people were real mad. I
Speaker 1: mean some people flew a valuable member of my streaming
Speaker 1: community after of the of the Salt Squad, after we
Speaker 1: did the Blizz Kin episode. The way we first interacted
Speaker 1: is he damned me and said I was a blizzard
Speaker 1: chill because he because I said that I liked the
Speaker 1: Dioppolo game. And I was like, He's like, he's like,
Speaker 1: you're sounding like a real blizzard chill right now, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just being on it. I was like,
Speaker 1: you you listen to the pod. You know, I have
Speaker 1: no reason to lie if I don't like something, I'm
Speaker 1: very honest about it. And I'm just saying I did
Speaker 1: enjoy the mobile game for what it is, and I
Speaker 1: do think mobile games are the future. And now I
Speaker 1: get to sit back and watch as Call of Duty
Speaker 1: Mobile blows up as Arena Valor is blowing up as
Speaker 1: pub G mobile like mobile game because it's accessible, it's
Speaker 1: for the people, like like, how many kids have an
Speaker 1: Xbox now, not that manie. How many people have a
Speaker 1: PS four? Not not that many. How many kids have
Speaker 1: a cell phone literally at a certain age, all of them.
Speaker 1: I think that's where like Google Stadium is coming up
Speaker 1: and is and is gaining a lot of popularity because
Speaker 1: it's not so much about owning the games, are owning
Speaker 1: a system that is so good, it's just about having
Speaker 1: internet fast enough to be able to literally stream the
Speaker 1: game to your phone so you can play any game
Speaker 1: you want on your phone. Same thing with xboxes, x
Speaker 1: cloud service that's coming out soon. It's like it's really
Speaker 1: bridging that gap to bring everybody together, to make it
Speaker 1: let about what you have or what you're playing on,
Speaker 1: and just making it like, hey, are we all playing
Speaker 1: the same game. It's like as cross platforms coming more
Speaker 1: of becoming more of the norm, where we are also
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, take off the limits on what
Speaker 1: people are able to play, because, like you're saying at
Speaker 1: the beginning, PC gaming is the best. I completely agree
Speaker 1: as some sort of you know, loser who spent way
Speaker 1: too much money on their PC. But it, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I should have to say or
Speaker 1: I don't want to be the one to say somebody like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to play this game with you, but we
Speaker 1: can't because you're on a Mac, or we can't because
Speaker 1: you only have a PS four or you only have
Speaker 1: an Xbox or something like that. Like that's that's lame.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't like that. I would much rather
Speaker 1: play with everybody all the time than just be like, well,
Speaker 1: I have a PC and we can play PC games,
Speaker 1: or I just have a PS four we can play
Speaker 1: PS four games. It's like, I don't think that is
Speaker 1: the future personally. Yeah. You, um, you'll kind of touched
Speaker 1: on the International, but I just want to touch on
Speaker 1: it a little bit more. Um. So, the first ever
Speaker 1: International was, which is a tournament, was held in twenty
Speaker 1: eleven and was the first official Dota two tournament. In fact,
Speaker 1: it was the first real time that we got to
Speaker 1: see the game in action being played at the highest level. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then, like you all said, the tournament happened when
Speaker 1: Dota two was still in early development, still very difficult
Speaker 1: to play. Um and not necessarily because the game was
Speaker 1: poorly made, but also because you know, select people were
Speaker 1: allowed to play the early beta. This is very fascinating,
Speaker 1: and that the last tournament, which was in August of
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, the prize money was over thirty four million dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they do a really cool thing with the their
Speaker 1: international now. Now the fans are kind of contributing to
Speaker 1: the prize money because there's a compendium that you buy
Speaker 1: that unlocks tons of cosmetics, has a fantasy game where
Speaker 1: you can track the International, it really is like a
Speaker 1: companion to the tournament itself, which gets I think it's
Speaker 1: a perfect way to get your user base excited about
Speaker 1: this tournament. But every dollar space it towards the compendium
Speaker 1: goes into the prize pool, which is such a cool
Speaker 1: concept because you know you're directly kind of helping your
Speaker 1: community grow versus hoping for the best amen. I think
Speaker 1: bringing the sports is really important too, because like mobi's
Speaker 1: have wildly expanded the popularity of the sports across the world.
Speaker 1: It definitely started with StarCraft, but but with League of
Speaker 1: Legends and with the International, you're seeing like record attendance
Speaker 1: of events, record viewership of these of of the events
Speaker 1: on things like Twitch and YouTube and like a Zoobo
Speaker 1: and other another streaming services, And I think it really
Speaker 1: highlights how much people are investing into mobile games as
Speaker 1: more than just like the game itself. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: and that's that's the link I wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: when I said earlier, because StarCraft was there was money
Speaker 1: in it. But I like, if you if you have
Speaker 1: to know StarCraft to watch StarCraft, you just you simply
Speaker 1: have to know, like you'll understand when a team is
Speaker 1: invading but that's third minutes in, whereas like a mobile
Speaker 1: you understand two characters shooting beams at each other, getting
Speaker 1: to kill someone sneaking, and also the excitement of seeing
Speaker 1: like the Jungler pop out to harass and maybe get
Speaker 1: a kill early game. I think even if you don't
Speaker 1: even play, and I know a lot of people who
Speaker 1: watch you know, League and watch like the it's called
Speaker 1: the LCS, which is the League Championship Series. I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people watches it, watch it and don't
Speaker 1: even play League because it's a little easier to follow.
Speaker 1: And I think that was the final piece to kind
Speaker 1: of bring it over here to a larger audience. And then,
Speaker 1: like we said, the money that was involved once Brand
Speaker 1: saw that like, oh, we can just make E Sports
Speaker 1: teams and they have to wear our logo when they
Speaker 1: play in front of millions of people. Oh, let's invest
Speaker 1: in it. And then you have like things like now
Speaker 1: E Sports blowing up across the wather. You've got Echo Fox,
Speaker 1: which is owned by Rick Fox or formally owned by
Speaker 1: Rick foxunate. Yeah, that was all. That's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of mess. But like that the that whole thing, Rick
Speaker 1: Fox leaving Echo Fox. I read on ESPN and this
Speaker 1: and it was a long flighty road. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I've been here from the beginning. I've been watching from
Speaker 1: the beginning. And I remember every time I knew ESPN
Speaker 1: was going to cover the sports, I go on Twitter
Speaker 1: and like, let's see what people are saying, because it
Speaker 1: was ridiculous from the jump. And I'm gonna tell you why.
Speaker 1: Because everyone's like, oh, we're watching video games on the
Speaker 1: sports networks, Like, yeah, bro, you're also watching poker and
Speaker 1: theseus you're watching bowling. Get out of your son, like
Speaker 1: you get out of here, don't you pushing it? Like bowling?
Speaker 1: I could see, yeah, you're actually moving. Yeah, but poker
Speaker 1: is literally the same the same amount of movement as
Speaker 1: someone playing a video game. Maybe just mental sports. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're thinking that's always I mean golf, you know, like
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, you don't don't make. Don't make the
Speaker 1: golf people they put in the hips and you have
Speaker 1: to be physically fit. They'll tell you they have they
Speaker 1: have to work out. I mean, but you ain't. You
Speaker 1: ain't in there, like they're all pretty golf. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give you all. I'm gonna put some respect on golf,
Speaker 1: you do need a lot of physical stuff. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like but I remember because I remember the first kind
Speaker 1: of big one I kind of saw because they did
Speaker 1: it briefly because Blizzard always kind of snuck in there.
Speaker 1: But they did the High School Champions this series, which
Speaker 1: was a mobile that we didn't get to talk about
Speaker 1: too much. But Blizzard did their foray in the Moobis
Speaker 1: which was Heroes of the Storms, which was funny because Blizzard,
Speaker 1: where this all started, was kind of the last to
Speaker 1: kind of touch on it. And then they started very
Speaker 1: very late, in my opinion, bringing in old champions, so
Speaker 1: you had like the Samurai, which was obviously the Berserker,
Speaker 1: and you had They did that way too late, Like
Speaker 1: if they would have started with those champions, I think
Speaker 1: Heroes would have lasted a little longer. We have to
Speaker 1: take a really quick break and then we're hopping back
Speaker 1: into Mobi's right after this, and we are back. I
Speaker 1: was just telling if he um. I was pulling up
Speaker 1: this Washington Post article about how we'll link it. It's
Speaker 1: how the League of Legends World Championship became the super
Speaker 1: Bowl of e sports, And this was comments from a
Speaker 1: week ago. Even I thought they would have like I
Speaker 1: know originally, but this was a week ago. It says
Speaker 1: it's offensive to call this a sport. Can't some clever
Speaker 1: person come up with a new word and get famous
Speaker 1: for doing it. Um my exact same sentiments, This is
Speaker 1: not a g damn sport. Um Well, I guess well
Speaker 1: somebody did say was if he? Someone said, well, if
Speaker 1: golf can be a sport, I guess anything can. Somebody else,
Speaker 1: by the name of Tuna fish said the brain gets
Speaker 1: a workout, but not sports unless the whole, Unless the
Speaker 1: whole of the body is involved. That is not true.
Speaker 1: That's not many sports like a tree. Well, let's talk
Speaker 1: to the dictionary, the thing that knows what it's talking about,
Speaker 1: and not some dork in the comments. So sport number
Speaker 1: one is indeed an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess,
Speaker 1: and often a competitive nature. As with the first thing,
Speaker 1: is that as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowl and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah to a particular form of this, especially in
Speaker 1: the out of doors. So that two is saying that
Speaker 1: anything is like a form of because also ESPN is
Speaker 1: showing a NASCAR Shut up, Oh that's true. You're sitting
Speaker 1: the whole. Yeah, what are you talking about. I also
Speaker 1: think that, like you know, mobiles are really cool kind
Speaker 1: of uh mix up of a bunch of different video games.
Speaker 1: Like you're saying, there's are there's RPG elements, there's even
Speaker 1: like you know, shooter elements. There's a lot of different
Speaker 1: elements that make up a mobile. Similar how there's like
Speaker 1: a lot of elements that make up sports in general.
Speaker 1: And I think if you watch a broadcast of a
Speaker 1: League of Legends game, whether it's else yes, the World
Speaker 1: Championship or something like that, there's a lot of things
Speaker 1: you see that are almost identical to traditional sports, basketball, whatever,
Speaker 1: football anything. First of all, the desk, the analyst desk,
Speaker 1: that people doing color casting, all of those people look
Speaker 1: just as professional on sets that cost just as much
Speaker 1: money as anything that you'd see for an NBA or
Speaker 1: an NFL broadcast. Everybody's wearing uniforms, there's teams, there's coaches,
Speaker 1: everybody is working together, the teamwork, the communication, all of
Speaker 1: that stuff I think is so that people would say
Speaker 1: is crucial to sports, and like you know, defines team
Speaker 1: sports is also crucial to the sports into you know,
Speaker 1: what people are doing on stage when they're playing legal
Speaker 1: legends are playing a game like this. You know, I
Speaker 1: get that the lack of the physical element is you
Speaker 1: know what people racing. Yeah, exactly, very similar, I mean
Speaker 1: granted those people. It's also also I must say the
Speaker 1: sports people have a workout regiment absolutely because one of
Speaker 1: our friends, her brother lives in a house like she
Speaker 1: he is on a team and they have to live
Speaker 1: in a house altogether. They trained together. It's like you
Speaker 1: can't you know, you have to be physically fit, mentally fit,
Speaker 1: like you have to coolutely in order for your brain
Speaker 1: to work. Yeah, hand eye coordinations, the same with drivers, drivers,
Speaker 1: all of the all of the like the really slight movements.
Speaker 1: Everything that is like high motor skill function is like
Speaker 1: super on display. Especially in sports. Everything is like split
Speaker 1: second to the moment decisions that are like creating games.
Speaker 1: That's why most people age out in their like twenties,
Speaker 1: like because it is you need that much of that
Speaker 1: twitch effort, you know, as opposed to like I think
Speaker 1: the fighting game community has a like older base you
Speaker 1: can still kind of busted out, but like something with
Speaker 1: like literally if I just look the game's free, go
Speaker 1: on league and just try to last click. It takes
Speaker 1: so much effort to like because it really is like
Speaker 1: a split second and then you're also looking at the
Speaker 1: mini map the same time. Like it really is a
Speaker 1: lot of trained stuff. But I do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about MOBA's effect on different games, because I mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier you have the battle Pass. The Battle Pass is
Speaker 1: very similar to like Danny was saying, the International that
Speaker 1: compendium that came you leveled it up, um lots of
Speaker 1: times with money? Can you level it up with the
Speaker 1: money you spend? You? Like Steam? I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's still around. You just have a feature where you
Speaker 1: can see how much money you spent on a game,
Speaker 1: and oh boy, you can don't tell people about Steam. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Steam is one of the first kind of uh
Speaker 1: because yeah, I remember it's since two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: I was using Steam as one of the its bi Valve,
Speaker 1: the company that have made Counterstrike, Half Life, eventually Team
Speaker 1: Fortress two, and it was It's essentially a store and
Speaker 1: a kind of library for your video games on PC.
Speaker 1: For a long time, it was the only one of
Speaker 1: its kind, and then developers are like, we're gonna make
Speaker 1: our own, but it's not gonna be as good it's
Speaker 1: gonna be bad. I will give Origin some credence because
Speaker 1: I do love Origin Access because that's how I was
Speaker 1: able to play Anthem without wasting any money, and that's
Speaker 1: how I'm able to play the New Jedi games. So
Speaker 1: Origin is the only one who got it right because
Speaker 1: they that the benefit. And then now the rumors that
Speaker 1: Origin is going to go back to Steam. That's the rumor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is that really? Yeah? That's because Origin posted a video
Speaker 1: on Twitter of just a coffee cup and then Steam
Speaker 1: coming up, and so everyone's like they're going to They're
Speaker 1: going to Steam. And then someone, of course data miners
Speaker 1: found a code that had I launch um launch codes
Speaker 1: from Steam. So yeah, which I'm mad because I'm like,
Speaker 1: this means I'm gonna lose Origin Access because if so,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose my mind because I love it. For
Speaker 1: those who don't know, Origin Access is just Netflix for
Speaker 1: video games, but specifically e A games, So you pay
Speaker 1: a monthly fee and you get all e A games
Speaker 1: for free, Madden, Fifa, Anthem, Jedi, Fall in Order, Unraveled,
Speaker 1: Unraveled too. Uh what is it? Feed heat and needs
Speaker 1: for speaking, Like, it's a huge library and it's truly
Speaker 1: worth it. Um, A lot of are trying to do it,
Speaker 1: and not as well as Origin access in my opinion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's definitely becoming more popular. Yeah, but yes, so Steam.
Speaker 1: Where was I with Steam? We were just talking about
Speaker 1: what it was. It's iTunes for games, yes, Steam. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a way quicker way to say it. Sorry, Steam
Speaker 1: is iTunes for games, and that's and I remember going
Speaker 1: to buy the BFC can of Monster walking to my
Speaker 1: PC cafe, crank that plan, Counterstrike one point one point
Speaker 1: six yeah, one point six D Dust D Dust two,
Speaker 1: uh going Hammerty. I've been playing like a free to
Speaker 1: play mobile called Rose Online because we were a Chimpy
Speaker 1: anime character and I was still awed back then. So
Speaker 1: I made my character have gold air and looked like
Speaker 1: Goku beautiful and has evolved into the premier platform for gaming.
Speaker 1: Uh and is the same company that developed Doda too,
Speaker 1: and eventually uh So and so valve at this dope
Speaker 1: system for the companium where you can buy micro transactions,
Speaker 1: and you can even they have like the communities, they
Speaker 1: go even beyond modding, where the community can create cosmetics
Speaker 1: for the community to buy. And this is a very
Speaker 1: similar thing that uh was first piloted by Fortnite because
Speaker 1: they started breaking up the game in the season's and
Speaker 1: then they had the Battle Pass where through um through
Speaker 1: experience that you will earned from playing their game, you
Speaker 1: would unlock cosmetics, but you can also pay to boost
Speaker 1: it along, which already makes it made it better than
Speaker 1: the International because honestly, obviously it was the same way
Speaker 1: for the International, but because every game took thirty minutes,
Speaker 1: leveling up your compendium took significantly longer than this. And
Speaker 1: then after Fortnite did it UM that it kind of
Speaker 1: blew up for a bit, and I think Apex did
Speaker 1: the next Apex was recently launched, which was EA's kind
Speaker 1: of Battle Royal game that was launched from there. But
Speaker 1: I think that was one of the things that they
Speaker 1: kind of took from mobi's I think everyone's kind of
Speaker 1: been structuring their e sports around it. I think the
Speaker 1: Overwatch League exists because of LCS. They were able to
Speaker 1: watch absolutely league UM and this is actually a very
Speaker 1: important part of it that UM just if we can
Speaker 1: stop take a pause on video games and talk about TV.
Speaker 1: LCS is owned by Riot, so it's there, it's their game.
Speaker 1: They're running their tournaments uh, the International owned by Valve.
Speaker 1: They're running their tournaments and vice versa. This is a
Speaker 1: very important thing because in TV, since video games are
Speaker 1: intellectual property, you need permission to broadcast it. So when
Speaker 1: back when I saw you know, StarCraft you know on NBC,
Speaker 1: Blizzard gave them permission to air it. So you have
Speaker 1: different companies, um like e League for example, who are
Speaker 1: doing street fighter games, but they have to pay out
Speaker 1: Capcom to use that footage, and lots of times they'll
Speaker 1: just ask for more and more money, and which is
Speaker 1: why you see a lot of these companies doing their
Speaker 1: own e sports because they get to have all the
Speaker 1: money and they have to control it. So that's actually
Speaker 1: like a very important X aspect to point out in
Speaker 1: the game. And why League is kind of dominated is
Speaker 1: because Riot has had the wherewithal to do it and
Speaker 1: that and I will say that Overwatch also followed that
Speaker 1: point because Overwatch was on the league first and then
Speaker 1: they launched their Overwatch which also changed. Like I think,
Speaker 1: I'm very interesting to see where the sports goes from
Speaker 1: there because typically eight sports are broken up into organizations,
Speaker 1: like we said, owned by different people. So you have
Speaker 1: like your Cloud Nines, which used to be an Overwatch team,
Speaker 1: You've have you have your um dignitas, uh evil is
Speaker 1: it evil geniuses? There's there's so many sports organs all
Speaker 1: over the world, but with Overwatched now they own the teams.
Speaker 1: So you have like the Los Angeles Valiant and the Outlaws,
Speaker 1: but these are all teams owned by Blizzard, which means
Speaker 1: that this kind of I was gonna say, that's that's
Speaker 1: actually not the case, like that the teams are still
Speaker 1: owned by organizations, like the London Spitfire is actually owned
Speaker 1: by C nine what But what Blizzard did that was
Speaker 1: like different. That was kind of trying to they're just
Speaker 1: kind of trying to not I shouldn't say bite, but
Speaker 1: they're trying to borrow from traditional sports in the way
Speaker 1: that the teams all have these like locations. It's the
Speaker 1: London Spitfire, it's the Los Angeles Valiant, but they're still
Speaker 1: owned by They're still owned by organism, They're still owned
Speaker 1: by organs, but those organs are not allowed to advertise
Speaker 1: their organs on any of the jury and that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. So it's like they're they're trying to
Speaker 1: move away from the kind of traditional sports market in
Speaker 1: the way that all the sports are kind of decentralized.
Speaker 1: Like the reason that the NBA is so successful is
Speaker 1: because like one, you know, companies by the rights to
Speaker 1: show the m b A. There's like four major sports
Speaker 1: in this country, whereas with the sports, there's a new
Speaker 1: e sport every week, and so you know, even though
Speaker 1: Mobile's kind of set the mold for what a good
Speaker 1: E sport is supposed to look like, Like a lot
Speaker 1: of these new games have to even make that much
Speaker 1: money to show themselves in the same light as League
Speaker 1: of Legends, and Overwatch was like, Okay, we need to
Speaker 1: be completely different from that, so we're having our own
Speaker 1: league that's not associated with any of this stuff. So
Speaker 1: it's like people who are Overwatch League fans, like I
Speaker 1: think they even struggle to identify with things like C
Speaker 1: nine or these other sports because they're like, I'm a
Speaker 1: I'm a Valiant fan, I'm I'm an Excelsior fan. I'm
Speaker 1: not you know, I play Overwatch. Like Overwatch really has
Speaker 1: this core community that just loves that game so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I do want to give Blizzard credit
Speaker 1: where credits due, because it's very easy to bash Blizzard
Speaker 1: were siding with China and this Hong Kong is a dispute.
Speaker 1: I have to mention that because if we talk about
Speaker 1: Blizzard and we don't mention that, you're gonna be like,
Speaker 1: if you why didn't you mention that? Are you on
Speaker 1: Blizzard side? No? You know me. You know you've seen
Speaker 1: my tweets. You know who side I'm on. I mean.
Speaker 1: And also, in case you were curious legal legends, the
Speaker 1: company Ran James is owned by So if you're curious
Speaker 1: about whose pocket they're in the answers, I mean, well
Speaker 1: because and that's a very important thing to say because
Speaker 1: Lee try talking that smack and people were very quick
Speaker 1: to be like, hold up, wait, you're kind of not talking.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the that's the kind of like
Speaker 1: connective tissue. Is it is? It is not that necessarily
Speaker 1: Blizzard is on the side of China. Is that Blizzard
Speaker 1: is owned by ten Cent, which is in China, which
Speaker 1: and that's that's what happens when your business gets into
Speaker 1: play with art, is you don't get to say everything
Speaker 1: you might want to say because your boss is owned
Speaker 1: by the man. But to what I will give them
Speaker 1: credit for is they were the first um E sports
Speaker 1: kind of Uh. Yeah, they're the first E sports to
Speaker 1: give players a salary and benefits because, as it stands,
Speaker 1: the way EAT sports worked before outside of the Overwatch
Speaker 1: League is you had a team, your team's winnings split
Speaker 1: amongst everyone. But what happens when you and the organ Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the organs, So you're getting a percentage after the
Speaker 1: org gets it. It's like your manager or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much. And so and you're you're like, you know,
Speaker 1: we talk about you know, football players who are in
Speaker 1: their twenties not knowing how to manage money. What's a
Speaker 1: sixteen year old, like the kid who just won a
Speaker 1: million dollars in Fortnite? Yeah, and he's like what he's like,
Speaker 1: sixteen fifteen year old? No, I mean, schools already don't
Speaker 1: teach us about money management. Now you're sixteen with that
Speaker 1: much money, you know, it makes it hard to like
Speaker 1: understand like investing it in the right way, making it
Speaker 1: go towards something. I mean, hopefully his parents will help
Speaker 1: him out with that. But in E sports, orgs, you know,
Speaker 1: you're making all these moneys, especially if you're successful team,
Speaker 1: but you don't have benefits, so like if you do
Speaker 1: get sick or if something does happen, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean Danny will tell you out of everyone's being sick
Speaker 1: is very expensive in America, and you know, having a
Speaker 1: million dollars if you have something like a chronic illness,
Speaker 1: that can go away real quick. So Blizzard, Oh, well,
Speaker 1: what I was going to say, if you want to
Speaker 1: hear more of that conversation and the controversy of like
Speaker 1: being in the sports. We had a really great episode
Speaker 1: with Malik Forte. It is our e sports episode at
Speaker 1: drump last year, but still very relevant that we talked
Speaker 1: about a lot of the controversy, even like doping, you know,
Speaker 1: because that's not really regulated. When you are, you know,
Speaker 1: have a new sport come up, So check out that episode.
Speaker 1: You can literally just google or look up nertificent e Sports.
Speaker 1: You're already on the feet, just search. I saw Malik recently.
Speaker 1: I think he wasn't like a Honda ad. It was
Speaker 1: like an ad for Honda and he was driving to
Speaker 1: an Overwatch event. Makes sense, good for him York to
Speaker 1: a level and people just ask, um, well, I mean
Speaker 1: that's pretty much most of MOBA's that. Yeah. We I
Speaker 1: think we did great on the history. But it was
Speaker 1: really fun talking about the influence because I mean with anything,
Speaker 1: like I want to say, with games, but just anything
Speaker 1: entertainment wise. It it's fun to see the things that
Speaker 1: might be affecting the other things you love, right, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, someone who plays Overwatch might be like what
Speaker 1: about mobis and not knowing like, oh, actually Mobi's kind
Speaker 1: of helped you. I mean, I mean, MoMA's kind of
Speaker 1: built Overwatch because it uses a mobile definitely skeleton. But
Speaker 1: and that's how they killed battle BORNU alright, bringing up
Speaker 1: bringing up old wounds. But Dan, where can people find you? Um?
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at dj Underscore Daniel.
Speaker 1: You can find me here at the office every day,
Speaker 1: cutting up people's voices and doing the usual. Um, it's
Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Thank you both for having me. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Fun talking mobis, I will the last
Speaker 1: thing I will say about MOBA's I highly recommend everybody
Speaker 1: at least give one try if you're into video games
Speaker 1: at all. I find that mobis are such a cool
Speaker 1: combination of different mechanics of many different video games that
Speaker 1: if you're interested in video games at all, there's something
Speaker 1: about mobis that will interest you and to lightly touch
Speaker 1: in the toxicity. Just mute everybody, don't talk to anybody else.
Speaker 1: If you have your friends and a discord, talk to them.
Speaker 1: If you have a toxic friend, do not play with them.
Speaker 1: Just play a mobile for fun. Give it, give it
Speaker 1: a shot because they're super fun, adventurous, just well designed
Speaker 1: games that you know, they're the most popular in the
Speaker 1: world for a reason, so definitely give them a shot.
Speaker 1: Hey you, Oh, I'm at miss Danny Fernandez, and I
Speaker 1: don't think I can announce anything. I have so many
Speaker 1: things to announce that I'm not allowed to. I hope
Speaker 1: in a week next time you guys listen, I can
Speaker 1: announce something. Um. But in the meantime, Oh yeah, check
Speaker 1: out our merch store in public dot com slash meifice, Yeah,
Speaker 1: get some of our merch. You know what's coming up
Speaker 1: the holiday. Myr friends and their difference share. Even if
Speaker 1: they don't listen, now that maybe they'll start listening because
Speaker 1: you got them assured it's public dot com slash Night
Speaker 1: said yeah, and of course because people have been asking again,
Speaker 1: the discord is discord dot g g Forward slash Salt Squad.
Speaker 1: If you want to come in, if he's on Twitch,
Speaker 1: if you wire away on Twitter and Instagram and uh,
Speaker 1: like we always say, stay nerdy, stay