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Speaker 1: You literally are going back to the very places that

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Speaker 1: were the worst of the worst for you. You were

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Speaker 1: literally going back and buying houses where you left people behind.

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Speaker 1: You're not It's not just a slogan. You're literally doing this.

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Speaker 2: We are starting exactly where we left them. I'm going

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Speaker 2: back to houses where my blood is on the floor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of the people that saw that

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Speaker 3: blood leave his body, we are still there in active addiction,

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Speaker 3: and you're buying the houses.

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Speaker 2: If we can. You know, in one case, we had

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Speaker 2: had the house donated.

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Speaker 3: To us, and then we have the halfway houses, and

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Speaker 3: we did buy the half of pit mortgage, and I

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Speaker 3: mean we didn't have the money to buy them out right,

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Speaker 3: But we've got the same halfway house I was kicked

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Speaker 3: out of.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, the same one you were kicked out of

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Speaker 2: the house I was kicked out.

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Speaker 1: We took a mortgage on it to buy it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's right now. We're housing about seventy five men,

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Speaker 2: women and children in Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

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Speaker 1: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,

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Speaker 1: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in

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Speaker 1: Inner City Memphis, and that last part we accidentally actually

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Speaker 1: want an Oscar for the film about our team. That

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Speaker 1: movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems will

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Speaker 1: never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in

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Speaker 1: nice suits using big words that nobody understands on cing

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Speaker 1: and and box, but rather an army of normal folks us,

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Speaker 1: just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help.

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Speaker 1: That's what Ben and jess Owen. The voice we just

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Speaker 1: heard is done. Ben and jess are lucky to be

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Speaker 1: alive after years of serious addiction, and they're now turning

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Speaker 1: the very dope houses they once lived in into hope

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Speaker 1: houses where folks in recovery can write the next chapters

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Speaker 1: of their lives. Wait for you to meet Ben and

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Speaker 1: jess right after these brief messages from our general sponsors.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody. I have with me Ben and Jess Owen,

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Speaker 1: who was introduced to us by formal guests Jessica Lamb,

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Speaker 1: who I hope you've heard her episode. If you hadn't,

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Speaker 1: you need to listen to it. And after just told

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Speaker 1: us about Ben and Jessica, I'm saying, that's weird. That's weird.

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Speaker 1: It's two Just's I just realized that we have just

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Speaker 1: Owen with us and jess Lamb or Jessica Lamb was

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Speaker 1: our previous guests introduced us. And it's phenomenal where these

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Speaker 1: stories come from. So I want to welcome you to Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Ben and Justic Owen.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank thank you for having us.

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Speaker 1: And I guess when I say welcome to Memphis. You

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Speaker 1: live in Georgia, but what your roots are here too?

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Speaker 2: Roots are here. We've been in Georgia since the middle

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Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen when we got clean. But I've been

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Speaker 2: back in Memphis about eighty percent of the time since

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Speaker 2: October of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: And Jess, you were born here, born here?

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Speaker 3: Well, I moved here when I was eight and I'm

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Speaker 3: almost forty, so I was here for a while.

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Speaker 1: A long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, high school days and all that here, right, yep.

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Speaker 1: So although you're Georgians, you're also.

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Speaker 2: Memphius Memphians citizenship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: If you ask either one of us where we're from,

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Speaker 2: we're from South Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Really, yeah, that's what you said. You live in Georgia.

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Speaker 2: No matter where I'm at in the world, if somebody

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Speaker 2: asks me where I'm from at South Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Well, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: joining us, and I want to dig in. But first,

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Speaker 1: ben it sounds like an army bratt, really, but tell

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Speaker 1: me kind of how you came up? All right?

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Speaker 2: So I was an army bratt. I was born to

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Speaker 2: a ranger officer who was in the one hundred and

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Speaker 2: first commanded a mortar company at Fort Campbell when I

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Speaker 2: was born.

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Speaker 1: Is that the big red one? No, No, screaming eagles

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Speaker 1: screaming That's what I meant. Screaming eagles.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's them. So I was born at Fort Campbell.

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Speaker 2: Mom's an industrial engineer for it doesn't matter, and we

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Speaker 2: just got to moving around. Dad left the Army not

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Speaker 2: too long after. My little brother was born at Fort

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Speaker 2: Benning in nineteen eighty four, and he went to Fiveer Pharmaceuticals,

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Speaker 2: probably in eighty six. I was born in eighty one,

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Speaker 2: and from there, ma'am, we were all over the country.

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Speaker 2: I think I've lived in fourteen states now. Growing up,

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Speaker 2: it was like you'd expect it to be, being raised

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Speaker 2: by an infantry officer. Dad was strict, we had rules.

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Speaker 2: He was an absolutely great father. Still is my parents

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Speaker 2: are still married. I mean, I never doubted that I

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Speaker 2: was loved and valued. My parents fostered my love of learning.

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Speaker 2: Just for whatever reason, all that moving around.

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Speaker 3: Created a.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what the word for it is. I

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Speaker 2: had a lot of anxiety.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever feel like you belonged?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's weird. I won't say no, but I

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Speaker 2: won't say yes either. I developed very early on the

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Speaker 2: ability to be a chameleon and fit in wherever I

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Speaker 2: was at, which I guess, you know, looking back, as.

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Speaker 1: We moved around more and more.

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Speaker 2: When we moved to California when I was fourteen, that

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Speaker 2: probably backfired because the easiest place to fit in was

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Speaker 2: with the bad crowd. And that's that's when my life

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Speaker 2: started going sideways.

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Speaker 1: So after high school, you graduate high school where.

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Speaker 2: I graduated from Hoover in Birmingham, Alabama. From there, I

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Speaker 2: went to Auburn. I was an RTC. I was dead

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Speaker 2: set and following my dad's footsteps, I was gonna be

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Speaker 2: an infantry officer. And I was waivered into RTC for

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Speaker 2: a torn acl that I had torn playing football. And

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Speaker 2: then the towers came down on nine to eleven and

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Speaker 2: I was honestly well on the way to drinking myself

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Speaker 2: out of college. And I saw that as an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to be a hero as opposed to be a quitter,

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Speaker 2: and I dropped out and listed. I didn't tell maps

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Speaker 2: that I had a torn acl so basically I lied

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Speaker 2: to get in, and less than a year later that

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Speaker 2: had come back to bite me in the end, broke

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Speaker 2: my leg in a diuthmatically discharged and so you never

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Speaker 2: actually got to serve, correct. Yeah, I briefly wore a uniform.

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Speaker 2: I'm a veteran in name only. That's the extent of

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Speaker 2: my service. I didn't get to do anything cool, but

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Speaker 2: I did enlist in the infantry. I did try. I said,

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Speaker 2: you know, here, am I send me? And I got

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Speaker 2: sent home?

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Speaker 1: And was it really the nine to eleven that I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready to roll one percent? All right, we'll stop

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Speaker 1: there on you and go to a jess. Give us

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Speaker 1: that version of your story.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So I actually grew up in a very nice Christian

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Speaker 3: home until about age eight when we got dropped off

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Speaker 3: in Memphis because my dad was manager of kmart. So

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Speaker 3: they're moving us around every two years or so. And

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Speaker 3: we made it to Memphis, and that's when Kmart was like,

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Speaker 3: oh no, we can't keep up with everybody. We gotta

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Speaker 3: fire everybody. So they fired my dad like they you know,

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Speaker 3: let go of everybody else. And we stayed in Memphis,

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Speaker 3: and my mom started drinking after that. It became extremely violent,

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Speaker 3: very bladerent drunk. About three or four years later she

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Speaker 3: discovered crack and I am a crack addicts. Now I've

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Speaker 3: got very violent, a lot of crack.

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Speaker 1: And doing the math. You're then thirteen or fourteen. Yep,

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Speaker 1: that's a really tough age anyway, Yes, it is so

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Speaker 1: as your dad doing. I mean he had to been

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Speaker 1: watching his wife to cintegratee.

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Speaker 3: So they had actually been together from the time there

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Speaker 3: at thirteen and sixteen. So he just kind of he

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Speaker 3: wasn't there anymore. It's like he just mentally had to

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Speaker 3: leave in order to deal with that or not deal

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Speaker 3: with that. He just wasn't really there. He was there

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Speaker 3: as a shell of a person and we just kind

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Speaker 3: of had to deal with a lot of that. But

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Speaker 3: he worked, I mean, like someone had to pay the bill.

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Speaker 3: She worked too, but he was really the breadwinner. He

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Speaker 3: would work to make sure we could, you know, keep

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Speaker 3: her house going and stuff. So that's where he was.

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Speaker 3: So in the meantime, I'm, you know, thirteen, and that's

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Speaker 3: when I took my first drug. I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: numb everything in me so I didn't have to deal

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Speaker 3: with my mom. And so from there, I mean, is

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Speaker 3: that what you think?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, just any drug I could get. It was

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Speaker 3: very small at thirteen and then fourteen fifteen, sick as

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Speaker 3: I get older, it you know, gets worse and worse,

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Speaker 3: harder drugs, and so I was just full blown drug

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Speaker 3: addict probably by the time I was fifteen or so,

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Speaker 3: and I was just jumping from house to house so

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Speaker 3: I could stay away from my mom. I did go

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Speaker 3: to Germantown all of high school, but the very last year,

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Speaker 3: senior year, I ended up dropping out.

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Speaker 1: Germantown High School for our listeners is actually a suburban school,

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Speaker 1: was at that time a really nice school district and

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Speaker 1: a grade school.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which is I've actually got a little story. My

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Speaker 3: mom actually went up there one day trying to get

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Speaker 3: crack money from my brother, and the office actually had

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Speaker 3: to call me in there to check me out to

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Speaker 3: drive my mother home because she was so drunk when

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Speaker 3: she showed up there, so you know, being the suburban type,

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Speaker 3: you know, like cheerleader school that it was. It was

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Speaker 3: very embarrassing. Yeah, it was horrible. And then we had

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Speaker 3: like the security guard guys that were friends with the cheerleaders,

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Speaker 3: so then people were talking about me too, because somehow

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Speaker 3: the security guards were talking to the cheerleaders and ever

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Speaker 3: it was talking about me. So it was it was mortifying.

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Speaker 3: It was absolutely horrible. So I did end up dropping out.

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Speaker 3: I did graduate with a diploma from Gateway Home Schools,

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Speaker 3: and from there I just kept doing drugs and I

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Speaker 3: got pregnant when I was nineteen. At twenty, I had

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Speaker 3: my first child, and then four months later, my mom

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Speaker 3: died of a drug overdose. So then just more drugs

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Speaker 3: and more drugs. I did end up going to school.

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Speaker 3: My dad suggested he saw where my life was going.

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Speaker 3: He was like, look, you don't want to end up

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Speaker 3: like your mother. You got to do something something for

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Speaker 3: your daughter. So I did enroll in Remington College. I

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Speaker 3: graduated top of my class four point zero. I was

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Speaker 3: a certified medical assistant. I worked in doctors' offices and

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Speaker 3: Delta Medical Hospital and actually ended up getting fired because

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Speaker 3: of my anger issues. A lot, and I was very

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Speaker 3: good with the patients. Actually, we had patients that cried

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Speaker 3: when I got fired, like they loved me and I

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Speaker 3: loved them. But I did have anger issues. Back out

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Speaker 3: into the streets, I went doing all the drugs I could.

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Speaker 3: On my daughter's tenth birthday, I was so dope sick

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Speaker 3: that I could not move, I could not get out

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Speaker 3: of bed. I couldn't do anything for her, like my

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Speaker 3: dad literally had to take her to celebrate a birthday. Drugs, Heroin, heroin.

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Speaker 3: That was my main one. That was that was what

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Speaker 3: took me down. I'd had all the other ones, but

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Speaker 3: heroin was the one that really having by the balls.

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Speaker 1: We will get to the redemption everybody, but you have

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Speaker 1: to know who these folks are and what they fought through. First.

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Speaker 1: I know you've told this story one hundred times. Yeah right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know people that have lived this life because of

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Speaker 1: the work you do. But I'm watching you, and I'm

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Speaker 1: watching tears well up in your eyes when you're telling

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Speaker 1: me it's.

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Speaker 3: A because it was a lot. It was a lot

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Speaker 3: to go through.

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Speaker 1: Is it raw pain? Is it shame?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 1: Is it?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely no shame whatsoever. There's no shame and a lot

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Speaker 3: of people don't get that. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: people they do have a lot of shame. But this

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Speaker 3: is what made me who I am, and this was

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Speaker 3: I don't want to say that me doing drugs and

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Speaker 3: doing all the bad things was God's plan. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: God did not want me to do that, but he

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Speaker 3: used all of those bad things and He's allowed me

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Speaker 3: to use them to do good and to I mean,

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Speaker 3: even to meet Ben, because I, you know, eventually had

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Speaker 3: to go get clean after my daughter turned ten and

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Speaker 3: I was too dope sick to leave. I went to

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Speaker 3: treatment and started going to Narcotics Anonymous, and that is

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Speaker 3: where I met Ben. And just this whole thing is

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Speaker 3: a God thing.

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Speaker 1: So if it's not shame, it's swelling up in your eyes.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I just said that to you,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think it was shame. I've interviewed and talked

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Speaker 1: to enough people now that people who are really recovered

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Speaker 1: don't really have shame because they're at peace with I

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Speaker 1: think the pride and the not the pride, I think

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Speaker 1: the I think the overcoming it all erases the shame. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And That's what I've learned, and so absolutely I get it.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to share that part. But still it's

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Speaker 1: still an emotional thing for you to talk about, and

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Speaker 1: that it is pain.

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Speaker 3: Well, there there's definitely still some pain I still have.

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Speaker 3: There is guilt. I still have guilt over how I

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Speaker 3: raised my daughter when I was on drugs. There's there

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Speaker 3: will always be that. There's Me and Ben are actually

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Speaker 3: in the middle of writing a book right now, so

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Speaker 3: my emotional level has kind of been up here. I

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Speaker 3: always joke around and tell everybody I don't have emotions.

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Speaker 3: I have hunger and I have anger, and that's it.

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Speaker 3: And that's for the most part, it's true. But writing

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Speaker 3: this book has kind of brought a lot of things

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Speaker 3: to the surface. I've had to go over scenes like

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Speaker 3: with me and my mom, her beating me and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's all a little more emotional that it

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Speaker 3: probably would would have been earlier. But yeah, but there's

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Speaker 3: still pain and there's still a lot of guilt.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we've come to a place that you're both

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Speaker 1: still don't know each other, but you're an addicted mother

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Speaker 1: at twenty two three years old, and you are a

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Speaker 1: guy who tore up his knee and never got to

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Speaker 1: kind of reach what you wanted to reach and following

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Speaker 1: your father's footsteps, and at this point are you also

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Speaker 1: using no.

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Speaker 2: So I mentioned briefly California. We're not going to waste

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Speaker 2: time talking about that. But I definitely dabbled in all

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Speaker 2: the drugs when I was out there. I ended up

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Speaker 2: locked up the first time at like fourteen fifteen sixty drugs.

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Speaker 1: My parents put me in residence. So we use it

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Speaker 1: just for a possession.

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Speaker 2: Or not not legal. My parents locked me up in

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Speaker 2: residential treatment program. God, I turned a ten days stay

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Speaker 2: into like nine months because I kept running away. They

285
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Speaker 2: sent me to Utah. But anyway, I had to been

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Speaker 2: hard on your parents.

287
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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 2: I was a nightmare to my parents, and my parents

289
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Speaker 2: are perfect, like literally in every way.

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Speaker 1: You know. You heard her background.

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Speaker 2: She had a horrible, horrible childhood. I did not every

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Speaker 2: bad thing that happened to me growing up. I made

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Speaker 2: it happen. And I don't know why that is. I

294
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Speaker 2: was addicted to introducing chaos into my life.

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Speaker 1: So I did.

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Speaker 2: Back to your question, So I after I got out

297
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Speaker 2: of the Army, I started drinking very heavily, started using meth,

298
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Speaker 2: ended up homeless in Atlanta, randomly made contact with the

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Speaker 2: girl I'd known since I was twelve years old. She

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Speaker 2: was actually my first girlfriend. Moved up to Charlotte, North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: Within a week, she was pregnant, and she had no

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Speaker 2: idea that I was using drugs back in Atlanta or

303
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Speaker 2: how bad my life was. But I took that as like,

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Speaker 2: this is my opportunity to get it together. So I did.

305
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Speaker 2: I got a job, I went back to college. I

306
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Speaker 2: hadn't given up on following my dad's footsteps yet, so

307
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Speaker 2: I graduated college with honors. Got a job with Pfizer

308
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Speaker 2: Pharmaceuticals Alabama this time right, So it was actually University

309
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Speaker 2: of Alabama, Huntschal God, I say Bama because it's shorter,

310
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Speaker 2: got it. So I get a job with Pfizer, and

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Speaker 2: Pfizer moves us to Memphis. Now I had been battling

312
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Speaker 2: alcoholism this whole time, and it runs in my family.

313
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Speaker 2: My great grandfather died in a jail cell in Dts.

314
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Speaker 2: We recently just lost another uncle alcoholism. But neither of

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Speaker 2: my parents had this fight, right. So I moved to Memphis,

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Speaker 2: and I'm up and down with drinking. I actually drink

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Speaker 2: my gallbladder out of my body. They had to remove it.

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Speaker 2: I was the youngest person in the state of Alabama

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Speaker 2: to have an in procedure trying to mitigate the damage

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Speaker 2: alcohol was doing on my GI system. So like I

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Speaker 2: knew I had a problem with alcohol. I want to

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Speaker 2: say it was like two thousand and seven or eight.

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Speaker 2: I started having alcoholic dementia. I was like twenty six,

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Speaker 2: twenty seven years old, father of two kids, homeowner and

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Speaker 2: like their job and a job at Pfizer, and they're

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Speaker 2: telling my wife. They're on the outside, people are like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this guy got together, but it was it was really

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Speaker 2: really bad behind the scenes. And Easter Son. It was

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven Easter Sunday. At two thousand and seven,

330
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Speaker 2: I was in Georgia visiting my parents with Aaron and

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Speaker 2: the kids, and we got into an argument. They tried

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Speaker 2: to do an intervention and just for our listeners, those

333
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 2: don't go well usually, like we don't believe in them.

334
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Speaker 2: We've never seen one work. So they tried an intervention

335
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Speaker 2: and I got in my car and headed back to

336
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Speaker 2: Memphis because I was gonna drink. I didn't care what

337
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 2: they said, and I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.

338
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Speaker 2: I'm a man. I'm a dad. I got it together.

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Speaker 2: I got a good job, I paid the bills, and I'm.

340
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Speaker 1: A college grad.

341
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Speaker 2: I'm an Army vet, you know, like I'm a real man,

342
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Speaker 2: and a real man can drink well as outside of

343
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Speaker 2: scottsbro Alabama doing a buck thirty and I flipped a

344
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Speaker 2: Honda and I went out the rear windshield. That leg

345
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Speaker 2: that I had damaged in football in the Army, I

346
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 2: completely destroyed. I've got less than half of my tibia

347
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 2: as actual bone to this day. Fractured my pelvist in

348
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 2: three places, and for whatever reason, they didn't give me

349
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Speaker 2: a dui. But I mean I damn near died. I

350
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 2: was laid up for six months. I got sober that

351
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Speaker 2: day and I stayed sober until twenty eleven. I left

352
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Speaker 2: Pfizer because the culture and pharmaceutical sales is very heavy

353
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Speaker 2: drinking culture, and I realized I wasn't gonna be able

354
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Speaker 2: to stay sober if I stayed in that industry. So

355
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Speaker 2: I went to medical device sales, where the money was better,

356
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Speaker 2: but the drinking culture was even worse. So by two

357
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Speaker 2: thousand and nine, I had realized, if if I'm going

358
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Speaker 2: to stay sober, I need to be self employed. So

359
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Speaker 2: I started an e commerce business. Twenty ten, we had

360
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Speaker 2: another baby. Twenty eleven, we had twins, and I'm still sober.

361
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,440
Speaker 2: I hadn't even quit smoking cigarettes. By this point in time.

362
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Speaker 2: I had an employee at my warehouse who was a

363
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,399
Speaker 2: raging alcoholic. I'm watching like the same thing that had

364
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 2: played out with me a few years earliers played out

365
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 2: with him. He's coming to work throwing up bile. He's

366
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Speaker 2: puking up blood, Like I know what I'm seeing. So

367
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Speaker 2: I got him into treatment at Lakeside. And this is

368
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,880
Speaker 2: back when lakes I would actually keep you for twenty

369
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Speaker 2: eight days. They didn't have this PHP program that they've got.

370
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Speaker 2: Now he's you know, he made it through an act.

371
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Speaker 2: And another one of my employees is like, hey, my

372
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Speaker 2: buddy just came back from my rack. You know, he

373
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Speaker 2: didn't have a leg. He's addicted to pain pills. Can

374
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Speaker 2: we help him too? And so that was into twenty eleven,

375
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Speaker 2: early twenty twelve when Sergeant Eaton came back and we

376
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Speaker 2: got him off the street, gave him a job, got

377
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Speaker 2: him through La Paloma. I actually moved.

378
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Speaker 1: On to Coloma as a local treatment program.

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Speaker 2: Yep, YEP, they've closed down since, but it was a

380
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 2: great program. He made it through, got sober, ended up

381
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Speaker 2: renting the house next door to us. And then my

382
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 2: because I wasn't doing anything for my alcoholism, right, I

383
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 2: just quit drinking. I wasn't going to meetings. I wasn't

384
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Speaker 2: working a program. I wasn't doing any of the things

385
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 2: they tell you to do.

386
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Speaker 1: Were you feeling the grip every day even though you

387
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Speaker 1: weren't drinking.

388
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Speaker 2: No, I felt fine.

389
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Speaker 1: You were over it.

390
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 2: I was over it. And then my my alcoholic mind

391
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,479
Speaker 2: started working, and it's like, hey, you just got you

392
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 2: just got that dude clean, and you just got this

393
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,479
Speaker 2: vet off the streets. You get five kids, you got

394
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:56,639
Speaker 2: a business's booming.

395
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: You can handle it.

396
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 2: You can drink like a real man. Now. So guess

397
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 2: what I did. And man, when I tell you the

398
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 2: wheels came off that butts fast, I mean it.

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Speaker 1: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,

400
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: I really hope you'll consider becoming a premium member at

401
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:21,120
Speaker 1: Normalfolks dot US. Y'all, the Army has twenty eight premium

402
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: members right now, and we're setting an initial goal of

403
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 1: getting one hundred premium members. I hope you'll be open

404
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 1: to joining us. Why because by becoming one for ten

405
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: bucks a month or one thousand dollars a year, you

406
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 1: can get access to cool benefits like bonus episodes, a

407
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,360
Speaker 1: yearly group call, and even a one on one call

408
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 1: with me. You're so lucky, but frankly, guys, premium memberships

409
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 1: help us to grow the army that our country desperately

410
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: needs right now. So I hope you'll think about it.

411
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: We'll be right back.

412
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 2: By Halloween. At twenty thirteen, I was putting eight hundred

413
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: dollars of heroin and cocaine up my arms a.

414
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: Day time out. That's a big switch. I started drinking

415
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 1: to heroin right.

416
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 2: So here's how this progression went.

417
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: And that's a year.

418
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 2: It was a little over a year, but here's how

419
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 2: it went. So you remember I got in that car

420
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,479
Speaker 2: rack in two thousand and seven. Well, when they did

421
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 2: the surgery, somehow they gave me met the cylinder resistance

422
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 2: staff and it came back and it was bad. It hurt,

423
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 2: really really bad. They had me on a really high

424
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 2: dose of narcotic pain medication opiate's hydro coaton or purpose

425
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,959
Speaker 2: I don't remember which one was. Prescribed, and I've for

426
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 2: whatever reason, I've always had a very high tolerance to

427
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 2: any drug you give me, and so they have you

428
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 2: on a really really high dose of it. And I'm

429
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: at work one day, Sergeant Deaton's there the vet that

430
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,719
Speaker 2: we had gotten off the street, and I realized that

431
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 2: I just cussed out a guy who has spent ninety

432
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 2: thousand dollars my business in the preceding ten months. And

433
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 2: I'm like, these pills are making me a jerk. And

434
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 2: so I went in the bathroom and I flushed every

435
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 2: single one of them, know, the toilet. Now, I've been

436
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 2: on for six weeks. I've never been a dicta doobious before,

437
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 2: so I didn't know what was about to happen, but

438
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 2: Deaton sure did.

439
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: Sure enough.

440
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 2: Twelve hours later, I was so sick, I thought I.

441
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 1: Was going to die withdraws.

442
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was the first time it had ever

443
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 2: happened to me. And he handed me this little, tiny

444
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 2: blue pill that he'd got from a VA and I

445
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 2: was better instantly, I mean literally within minutes, I was fine.

446
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 2: What that pill was was a thirty milligram oxy coat

447
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 2: on and I was hooked that fast.

448
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: Really, I mean, it's that fast, that fast.

449
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: And back then, you know, they were going for thirty

450
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: bucks apiece probably, and I got up ten of them

451
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: a day, and you know, he moved back to Maine,

452
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: and so I'm trying to figure out how I've now

453
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: got a three hundred dollars day pill habit. And I

454
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: had another employee who had just gotten out of jail,

455
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 2: who's like, you know, Heroin's a lot cheaper, and I'm like,

456
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that. By the end of the week,

457
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: I was doing that, And at first it was cheaper.

458
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: All right. So this is a question I've never asked,

459
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: but I've always wondered, what is going through your mind

460
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: the very first time you put a tourniquet around your

461
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: arm and you stick that needle in your arm. Because

462
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: you're a smart guy, you know good and well, what

463
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 1: a heroin addict looks like? Three years after being an

464
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: heroin addict? What are you thinking?

465
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 2: So the first time it was a needle, I did

466
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 2: not do it to myself. I was actually terrified of needles.

467
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess the first time I did it

468
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: hero when I snorted it the first several times, and

469
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: then I got curious because it felt good.

470
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: You know.

471
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: Initially I was using it to afford to not be sick,

472
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 2: and so I had Andrew shoot me up the first time,

473
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 2: and within a day or two I was like, well,

474
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 2: this is stupid. I'll just do it myself. And yeah,

475
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 2: I knew, I knew where it was gonna end up.

476
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: But you tell yourself, you know it's not gonna happen

477
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: to me. You got to remember, I'm a dad, have

478
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 2: with five kids on my own home, and I have

479
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 2: a business. I can handle this, and that that was

480
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 2: the lie I kept telling myself, and then pretty soon

481
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: it's well, you know, I'm gonna quit tomorrow and tomorrow

482
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: never comes.

483
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: Yes, you laughed? Is that whatevery addict sss?

484
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 3: Yeah?

485
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: Did you tell yourself you were going to quit tomorrow?

486
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Every Yeah, I mean I would have plans. I

487
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 3: would even write it out like step for step. I'm like,

488
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 3: I'm only going to do this much of this time,

489
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 3: and this much at this time, and then by the

490
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 3: end of it, I'm like, I'm just gonna do all

491
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: of it. I'm just gonna do all of it right

492
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 3: now and have really good high because I'm gonna stop

493
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 3: tomorrow and.

494
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: Then I'm going to be out and it'll be okay,

495
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: I won't have anymore, and then you end up sick.

496
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: And then you're so sick you want to die.

497
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 2: And for anybody listening that doesn't understand what it's like

498
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: to be dope sick, you can't. You can't describe it,

499
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 2: you really can't. It's the despair is the hardest part

500
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 2: to deal with. And you're going to feel like you

501
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: have the flu, a stomach virus, COVID, all of that

502
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: you're going to feel like at the same time. But

503
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 2: the despair and the sense of hopelessness is something I

504
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 2: can never put into words and.

505
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 3: Uh describe it.

506
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: And you'll do literally anything to make that stop.

507
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: So where does the despair come from? Is it like you?

508
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: Is it because you know you're not or you're trying

509
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: to never use something again that makes you feel good

510
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: and that makes you desperate, or is it desperate because

511
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: you're so.

512
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 2: It's a chemical imbalance created in your and I could

513
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: sit here and talk for an hour about the pharmacokinetics

514
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 2: of it, but opiate's they changed the chemical makeup of

515
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: your brain.

516
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: Does your brain recover after non use? It? Does?

517
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: It takes a long time. And again that's going to

518
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 2: depend on total abstinence. You have a lot of maintenance

519
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: drugs out there that they'll throw a people like suboxon

520
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: or methodon and know your brain is not going to

521
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: go back to normal if you're taking those. So it

522
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: can be months in some cases.

523
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: So it's twenty thirteen and house kids, guy with a business.

524
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: But I can't imagine that lasts. When you become a

525
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: heroin addict.

526
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: It didn't last. Ten months later.

527
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: It was.

528
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 2: Well fourth of July of twenty fourteen. I had restored

529
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: a nineteen sixty eight gto with three of my kids,

530
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: and I guess all of them helped. Anyway, my life

531
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: picked up and left me. That day, I hopped in

532
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: the gto and I went to the dope Man.

533
00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: I was at.

534
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: And East Parkway.

535
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: That is again for the listeners in Memphis, not in Memphis.

536
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 1: That is literally the center of the city, that is midtown.

537
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 2: Yep, right there at Universities of Memphis. And I ran

538
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 2: that red light at Central and I hit an F

539
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 2: three point fifty and my car spun and I was

540
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 2: dope sick. I had money, but I was intentionally dope

541
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 2: soup because I was trying to quit and punish myself

542
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 2: because I hated myself. I did have shame at that

543
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: point in time for what I was putting my kids through.

544
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: The car spun.

545
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: I am pinned underneath the steering wheel and a five

546
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 2: point restraint and the gas tank burst into flames. I've

547
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 2: got bonds sticking out of my feet, my teeth went

548
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: through my lip, and I'm in this car and everybody

549
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: thinks I'm dead. And I had a fire extinguished in

550
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: the car because I mean it was souped up, and

551
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: I pulled it out, deployed it and nothing happened, and

552
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: it was dead, and so I threw it through my window,

553
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: and then they really everybody standing around and realized that

554
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: I was alive. But it was also bad because it

555
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 2: introduced to oxygen to the inside of the car. So

556
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 2: this huge fireball goes off. I don't know how I'm

557
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: not a burn victim. The debit cards and ID in

558
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 2: my pocket melted. I've still got them about it as.

559
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: Close as you can get. This dude pulls me out

560
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: of the car.

561
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: Like I said, I have bones sticking out of my feet,

562
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 2: and I realize I'm less than a mile from the

563
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: dope man's house, and I start trying to walk.

564
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: That's how bad.

565
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: The pull of opiate addiction is. The ambulance drivers had

566
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: to tackle me, and they took me to the mud.

567
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: Somehow I didn't end up with any charges, I guess

568
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: because I was sober when it happened. I was fast

569
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: forward to July twenty eighth. My wife had already left

570
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: me July twenty eighth. By this point in time, I

571
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: had gotten the insurance waning for the gto burned through

572
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: thirty four thousand dollars in like nine days, and so

573
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: I'm broke again. And I was all my way back

574
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: to Lakeland from my warehouse.

575
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: Lakeland is a suburb of Memphis, YEP.

576
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: And we had a firing range behind my warehouse. So

577
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: I was up there blowing off some steam shooting. I

578
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: had several firearms in the truck with me. I had

579
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: two suppressors in the truck with me that I legally owned.

580
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: I had all the paperwork with me. I also had

581
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: three grams of heroin and three grams of crack cocaine,

582
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 2: and I got.

583
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: Cold firearms and that stuff.

584
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: I got pulled over and they charged me like I

585
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 2: was Pablo Escobar, fourteen felon accounts.

586
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: And that was it.

587
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: Five agencies and thirty something vehicles that ended up in

588
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: our little cove out there on the Stomber's golf course.

589
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 2: They seriously treated it like I was some huge dope mover.

590
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: But anyway, that was it for me and Aaron. She

591
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: filed for divorce and I ended up. I ended up

592
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: on drug court. The drug court program here is one

593
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: of the oldest in the country for those not familiar

594
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: with treatment courts. Basically, it's they're going to give you

595
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: an opportunity to get rid of those criminal charges having expungements,

596
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: so it's like you never even got arrested. All you

597
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: have to do is complete the requirements of an eighteen

598
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: month court program. Sounds like a great deal, right, I

599
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: got kicked off.

600
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: I actually.

601
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: They don't order me into a halfway house, which coincidentally

602
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: is the halfway houses we own today. But I made

603
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: it eight days before I get kicked out of that

604
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: halfway house.

605
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: All right, dude, I'm imagining myself. You're a homeowner. You

606
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: just said Stonebridge. I assume that's where you lived. So

607
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: stone Bridge is a nice area. You've got five kids,

608
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: a wife, and a business and in only two years

609
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: you're strung out and in a halfway house. When you're

610
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: looking at the mirror, what are you seeing?

611
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: So it's funny you asked that there was a mirror

612
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: and I could take you to it in a house

613
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: I used to squad in the South Memphisode. I would

614
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: wake up every day and steer it into that mirror

615
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: and tell myself, what a piece of shit I am,

616
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: what a fuck worthless piece of youre? And that mirror

617
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: is still there, that house still stands. We're trying to

618
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: buy it.

619
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: What's worse that or the addiction?

620
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: The self loathing? Hands down in it? They feed each other.

621
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, but it feels like

622
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: that's a their feeder systems for one another. Yeah.

623
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, did you hate yourself? I hated everything about me.

624
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: I hated everything about me.

625
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: You're twenty three, Jess, you're an addicted mother. Are you

626
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: feeling the same self loathing?

627
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 3: I don't want to say it was as bad as his,

628
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 3: because I didn't have any of that.

629
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: I was.

630
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: I was still living at my dad's house with my daughter.

631
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: And you've never experienced any success at this point, nothing.

632
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: It'd been kind of crappy. Yeah, it had just been

633
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: eight years old all the way through.

634
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if anything, I was actually a little

635
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 3: proud of myself because I graduated talk of my class

636
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: and I was smoking weed the whole time. I wasn't

637
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: doing any hard drugs, but I was, you know, like

638
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 3: I'd study for the test and with a blunt in

639
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: my hand, you know. And I still graduated a top

640
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: of my class, and so that was actually a big

641
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: accomplishment for me. But once I went into recovery, I

642
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: did end up relapsing again. So my self hate was

643
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 3: definitely not as bad as his. But I still had

644
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: a lot of guilt over my daughter in the way

645
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 3: that because I just I looked in the mirror and

646
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 3: I saw my mother. So that is what that hurt,

647
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: because I was starting to put my daughter through what

648
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: I went through. And I wasn't beating her or anything

649
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: like that, but you know, she was still having to

650
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: deal with a mother in addiction.

651
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: Just my dad left when I was four. He died

652
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: about six seven months ago. I got a call after

653
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: his death and was just told he was dead. That

654
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: was pretty much my relationship with him. There were there

655
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: are a few times in and out of my life

656
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: between four years old and then that we were around

657
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: each other, but certainly it was it was not what

658
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: you'd hoped, right, taking me a long time to forgive

659
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: him for what I now know is the trauma that

660
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: negatively affected me until my forties. No drugs, no abuse,

661
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: no physical abuse. Have you been able to forgive your mom?

662
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 3: I have, And I think it's a little easier because

663
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 3: I am an addict myself, and I get it because

664
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 3: crack was her go to, that was her drug that

665
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 3: in the end, that's what ended up being my drug.

666
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: That was the one that took everything from me. And

667
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 3: I've actually, you know, I know that craving, I know

668
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: that feeling. So I will never understand beating the out

669
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 3: of your kids. I don't understand that. But I also

670
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 3: hate alcohol. I can't stand it. I don't want to

671
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: touch it, and I think because when I smell it

672
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: to think of her. So I don't understand that. But

673
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: but the addiction part, the you know, putting your kids

674
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: second over your addiction, I do understand that. So I

675
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 3: have forgiven her.

676
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: Comes a long way to understand someone who so profoundly

677
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: affected you, to understand that their brokenness. Yeah, and stuff,

678
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: But I don't think you can fully recover until you

679
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: do understand that brokenness.

680
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: I absolutely agree with that.

681
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did too.

682
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. So, y'all are both just messed up.

683
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: Don't even know each.

684
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: Other yet, do We haven't even met, y'all.

685
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: Just you're hating you. You're trying to destroy you. You're

686
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: trying to destroy you, and you're dealing with lots of

687
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: probably anger and sadness, and you're dealing with self hate,

688
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: and the wheels are off both of your worlds. You've

689
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: lost your wife, You're probably about to lose your kid.

690
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, he came close.

691
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: Most people in that place are dead by now. I

692
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: read you met being a guy named Brendan Kelly. Can

693
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: you tell me about Brandon? Yeah, so it was.

694
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: It's probably October twenty fourteen. I had made bond and

695
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 2: gotten rearrested on another felony warrant, and I'm sitting I'm

696
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: sitting in the holding tank outside Division eight, waiting to

697
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: go in and find out what Judge Dwyer is going

698
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: to do with me. I look across the tank and man,

699
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: I swear there's a kid in the holding tank of

700
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: tool and popular with me. And I do like a

701
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: triple take at him and you're all upstairing at him.

702
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: He's like what, And so I go over and talk

703
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 2: it to him, like thinking he needs protection, you know,

704
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 2: because we're in here with all the big scary guys.

705
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: Like the kid looked fourteen. Come to find out he

706
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: was actually twenty one to twenty two. Is the type

707
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: one diabetic, had a lot of indigrin problems, and he

708
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: just looked like a child. And you know how it

709
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: is what you don't know how it does. But when

710
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: you're in jail, you want everybody to reassure you, and

711
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: you're gonna ask everybody you can talk to, like what's

712
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: the judge's gonna do, what's gonna happen? And I found

713
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: out this kid had actually been on drug court in

714
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: front of Judge Dwire for quite some time, and so

715
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 2: I'm asking him what's gonna happen. He's like, well, I'm

716
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: in this halfway house called Rebos and the guy that

717
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 2: ons the place is named Tony Shelby, and he can

718
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: help you. He can get you out of jail. And

719
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: the judge listens to him and so instantly this little

720
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: fourteen year old looking kid, it's my best friend now

721
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: because he knows the guy that can get me out

722
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: of jail. And that's all I wanted. All I wanted

723
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: was to stay clean and be a daddy to my

724
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 2: kids again. And in that moment, that's what I thought.

725
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: That's what's sober Brenna. That's what's sober ben At that time.

726
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sure enough, you know, it was probably a

727
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: month later. They made me sit in jail for a while,

728
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 2: but Tony Shelby did come to till On Popper and

729
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 2: he did get me out of jail and he took

730
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: me back to Rebo's and I shared a bunk with

731
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: Brandon Kelly and there were, you know, some ups and

732
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: downs by my birthday, actually on my birthday of twenty fourteen,

733
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: November thirteen, at twenty fourteen, Max's wife had been advised

734
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: by her divorce attorney to serve me with a restraining order.

735
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: I keep in mind, I've never threatened her. I've never

736
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: laid a finger on her with the kids. He just

737
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 2: told her she should do this. It was later withdrawn

738
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: when she realized what had to happen for her to

739
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: do that. But I did what we do when we

740
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: get news we don't like that's we do drugs, and

741
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: so I went and got drunk and high. I got

742
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: kicked out of that halfway house and I went back

743
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: to jail, and I think it was December seventeenth, maybe

744
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: this guy comes. I'm still in jail. They bring me

745
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: back into Division eight and this guy comes up to me,

746
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: a guy named Brian Owens, and he goes, are you

747
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 2: tired of living like this? And I was like, yeah,

748
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: I'm tired of living like this. I'm really in a minute,

749
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: I mean, I was It's like, well, you don't have to,

750
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: and he can do something different. And he introduced me

751
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: to Arcotics Anonymous. He convinced the judge to let me

752
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: out of jail and that I would shadow him to

753
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 2: these NA meetings. And the first NA meeting he took

754
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: me to, Brandon was there, so you know, instantly buddied

755
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: back up of Brandom and I saw her well. It

756
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: hadn't talked, but I started noticing her more and more

757
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: in these NA meetings, and then Brian took me I

758
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 2: guess it was his fiance at the time. Fourth Sober

759
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: Birthday in January twenty fifteen, me and Brandon Kelly went

760
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: and I actually ended up meeting Jess finally, and Brandon

761
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: was kind of my wingman. Over the next several months,

762
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: I finally had come to accept I'm getting divorced, even

763
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: though I didn't want to. And yeah, I guess for

764
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 2: all intents and purposes, Brannan kind of felt my store

765
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: dained Jess and I ending up together.

766
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: Just how did you end up at a.

767
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 3: So I finally after my daughter's tenth birthday and I

768
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: realized that I needed to get some help, went to detals,

769
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: went to Serenity for a month, and then once they

770
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: let me out of Serenity, I was back in my

771
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 3: dad's house and I was doing really good. I was

772
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 3: like staying in the Bible, staying working my steps. And

773
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: I'd been out for like two three days, and I

774
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: was like, whoa, I was supposed to be going to meetings.

775
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: So I've never been to a meeting before. So I

776
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 3: looked up Google and just put in NA meetings Memphis, Tennessee,

777
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 3: and Spiritual Awakenings popped up. That was the first one

778
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 3: I saw.

779
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: Where is this That is parkin Hiland?

780
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: No, no, no, not Highland, it's Parking State, Yeah state

781
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 3: the church there. Yeah, So I look it up on Google,

782
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: and I go to my dad because I don't have

783
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 3: a vehicle or anything. I don't have anything, and I'm like, hey,

784
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to be going to NA meetings. Can you

785
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 3: take me here? So he took me and they were

786
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: on Friday nights at like seven o'clock and that was

787
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 3: my my home group. And Brian Owens, the one that

788
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: the one that he was just talking about, that was

789
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: actually the first person that ever spoke to me at

790
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 3: this NA meeting and like, you know, when you're brand new,

791
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: you don't know anybody, it's very awkward because it's you know,

792
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 3: it's an NA meeting. And uh, he was actually the

793
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: first one to come talk to me and tell me

794
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: how awesome it was. I came and then I'm I'm

795
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: welcome to come anytime. And gave me like this big hug,

796
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 3: which is weird for me because I'm not a hugger.

797
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 3: I'm not a but you know, you gave me this

798
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 3: huge hugg and he was such a sweet guy. And

799
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: I kept going back to NA and eventually met Ben.

800
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: So the truth is you're both fels off trying to

801
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 1: get it right, and you meet at an NA meeting,

802
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: which is an interesting thing because my great aunt, who

803
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: just passed away not long ago, actually founded the first

804
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: AA chapter in Memphis really years ago at Central Church

805
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: in Midtown. And Shirley Farnsworth and her husband Sid preceded

806
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: her in death by about five years and they met

807
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: at an AA meeting.

808
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: That's amazing.

809
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: And the reason I'm saying this is Shirley told me

810
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: that AA saves people lives. She also said A can

811
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: be really dangerous because you're surrounded by alcoholics and if

812
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: you're not partnered up and you're not doing everything you're

813
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: supposed to do and have an accountability coach, the problem

814
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: is you're putting a bunch of people in the same

815
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: room with the same problem and without a really strong

816
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: accountability and commitment to it. What you end up doing

817
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: is introducing people to one another who are going to

818
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: go get drumped together, which is exactly.

819
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: That's exactly what ended up happening.

820
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: So tell me about it.

821
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: So they say you should never ever get into a

822
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 2: relationship in early recovery. There's even a saying too, sickies

823
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: don't make a wellie. Man. If that's not the truth,

824
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: I don't know what is.

825
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: Well And Plus Brandon sang it around brand the third

826
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: leg of the Dark Guide at school stool.

827
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 2: Right, Brandon actually helped keep me between the rails. Brandon

828
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: was there the last time I did Heroin before we

829
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: went back out. Even though he was so much younger

830
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 2: than I was, he had a lot more experience with

831
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 2: dope than I did. You gotta remember I got arrested

832
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: ten months into my ordeal with it.

833
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 1: You started.

834
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, I spent an ungodly amount of money in

835
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: that short period of time. But he had been fighting

836
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: an opiate addiction for god, probably a decade. I think

837
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 2: he started shooting up when he was thirteen years old

838
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: in foster care. Gosh, yeah, he had just a I

839
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: can't even put words to how jacked up his life was.

840
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: You think hers sounded bad? This is like times three

841
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: is in uh sotimes hell on, Yeah, that's out. It

842
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 2: ended up being a hell. He didn't escape, you know,

843
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: Brandon graduated drug court, like I guess you could say,

844
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 2: with honors. They had this little award they give whoever

845
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: is the the most awesome client they have, and I

846
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 2: got kicked off. But today I'm sitting here talking to Allen.

847
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: He's no kidding in his up like bag of my truck.

848
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: Wow.

849
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, addiction doesn't discriminate. It does what

850
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: it is. But I think for the first well, from

851
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: April of twenty fifteen on just now runseparable for good

852
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: or for bad. And for the first six months it

853
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: was good and both. We're both that we were clean, clean,

854
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: we claimed, we kept together, we're doing our meetings. Yeah,

855
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: we'd started one of my businesses back up.

856
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: No.

857
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 2: Two, we started up two of my businesses back up again.

858
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 2: Things were going really well, and then bad decisions started

859
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: entering the picture. The resentment started forming Brandon when it

860
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: hadn't pulled away from us, because he saw where it

861
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: was headed, and he was getting close to graduation at

862
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: that point in time. And then it was kind of

863
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: just me and Jess, you know, on a downward spiral together.

864
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: She was pregnant, and I ended up kicked off drug

865
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 2: court and back in jail for a relapse two hundred

866
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: thousand dollars bond. Like we didn't think I was getting out.

867
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: Oddly enough, Jess and Aaron, my ex wife, got together

868
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: and were able to sell enough of what I still

869
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: had in my name to bond me out. I hired

870
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 2: a good attorney for my case to go upstairs Judge

871
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: Coffee's courtroom and ended up, well, let's slow down, moving

872
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 2: too quick there. I don't even know where to go next.

873
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: This is so we get him out of jail and

874
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 3: it's you know, a few months later, I have James,

875
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 3: which is our first together. You know, there's things that

876
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: we haven't mentioned here, but there's a lot of resentment

877
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: from those things, and then he, you know, keeps going

878
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 3: back out and relapsing. So, you know, I'm pregnant. I

879
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: can't do drugs. I've stopped smoking cigarettes. You know, I'm

880
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: just I'm there for my pregnancy. So when I have James,

881
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 3: I always have sea sections, so of course they give

882
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 3: you pain pills from your sea section. So I started

883
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 3: taking pain pills. Well, I'm so angry at him, even

884
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 3: though I love him and I want to stay with him,

885
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 3: I'm still angry as hell at him, and this is

886
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 3: like like my resentment, and I'm like, well, he got

887
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 3: to do all this, now it's my turn. So I

888
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: just kept taking pills and I think I ended up

889
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 3: getting an extra prescription from the doctor. And then once

890
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 3: those were out, and my sister as well as an

891
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: addict and she was on opiates. So then I was like, Jamie,

892
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 3: can I can I get some pain pills? I'm still

893
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: hurting or something like that. So I just continue to

894
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: be on opiates. I just stay on the pain pills

895
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 3: and it ends up becoming extremely expensive because I don't

896
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 3: ever want to go back to heroin. And so I'm like,

897
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 3: I'm just going to stay on these pain pills and

898
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 3: that's that's going to be it for me.

899
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 2: And and he's clean.

900
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 3: Well, I'll go back about three weeks after James was born.

901
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 3: I'm like, still recovering from my C section. I get

902
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 3: a call from two to one because he's been caught

903
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: with more crack. So then this my resentment starts all

904
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 3: over again. So I'm just still angry. So and that's

905
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 3: another reason I just keep doing drugs. I'm like, well,

906
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 3: it's my turn. I get to I get high now.

907
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 3: So after a few months, he's gotten it together, he's clean.

908
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 3: You know, we've gotten out of jail. But I'm still

909
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 3: on pain pills, and it just kind of keeps going.

910
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it is exactly what it was.

911
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: I know.

912
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 2: It sounds like we're bouncing around because we are. Because

913
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 2: there was a lot of insanity in this. Let's go

914
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 2: and call a spade of spade. So Ess and I

915
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: had been together for like two months. I was unfaithful

916
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, she decided to stick it out with me,

917
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: probably because she was carrying my child. I'm glad she

918
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: did right, So that resentment carried over until after James

919
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: was born, really until a lot later that because he

920
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 2: stabbed me over it in twenty seventeen.

921
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 3: There's another reason.

922
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: So we have this constant up and down. Either Jess

923
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: is getting high but it's pain pills and we're hiding

924
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: it from everybody we know, or Ben is drunk and

925
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: burning the world to the ground, or Ben has relapsed

926
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: on crack, and this goes on and on and on

927
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: until I want to say it was now Like she said,

928
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 2: I had it together. I think I probably had six

929
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: or nine months sober. She's still on pain pills. And

930
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 2: one day we're sitting there, we lost the house that

931
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: Aaron and I had bought erin. When she left me,

932
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: she left the house and everything because she couldn't pay

933
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 2: for it. Guess what either could I. They foreclosed on it.

934
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: Finally it was.

935
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: Sold at auction and Jess and I ended up just

936
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: by a stroke of I guess good luck. We were

937
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: able to lease a huge house in Arlington, and so

938
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: we moved into this house and I remember it was

939
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: like we'd gotten the kids back. Everybody thought we were

940
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 2: doing great. It was probably early twenty eighteen. I don't

941
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: envy you for having to edit all this because this

942
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: is everywhere. I'm sorry, all right, hang on, so god,

943
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: where do we even go with this?

944
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 3: We had a lot of businesses we did even though

945
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 3: we were getting high. Like I I'm a workhoorse. I

946
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 3: just work, work, work, So we have all these businesses.

947
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,399
Speaker 3: We look very successful. We have all these orders, were

948
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 3: shipping out every day. So we always had a like

949
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 3: a gun parts business, black rifle, the bump stock. Do

950
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 3: you know what that is?

951
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, slide fire. We were the number two distributed.

952
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: You know anything about the Vegas thing. You learned all

953
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: about bump stocks.

954
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so Vegas happened, And that was in October

955
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 2: of sixteen. Our sales went through the roof, which is

956
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: great for a little bit because I'm able to afford

957
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 2: her pill habit. I'm still sober. I'm cranking away. I'm

958
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,959
Speaker 2: making you know, we're getting it done. We're outside looking

959
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 2: in things look great. Sales just keep growing. And every

960
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: time the media talked about the bump stock ban happening

961
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: and it didn't happen, sales were back through the roof

962
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: even more. And this is great. For a long time.

963
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 2: Until February of twenty eighteen, we did half a million

964
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 2: a month in sales. And when we broke that half

965
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: a million dollar a month barrier, the credit card industry

966
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: or the process that we were using, was like, hold up,

967
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: you guys are extremely overleveraged on a single piece of

968
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: inventory that we believe is getting banned. We're gonna pump

969
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: the brakes in your processing and just to make sure

970
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: thing's okay, we're gonna go ahead and hold all the

971
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 2: funds you have in process right now, which ended up

972
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: being about a quarter million dollars, which was everything that's

973
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 2: all we had. They were right, I was overleveraged. When

974
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 2: they did that. We did what addicts do when they're

975
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 2: not working a solid program of recovery, and we decided

976
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: we can't afford justice pill habit, but we can't afford

977
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 2: for just to be sick, and heroin's cheaper. It's always

978
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: cheaper in the beginning, and which meant I had to

979
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 2: go back to South Memphis to get because that's the

980
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: only place I knew to get a heroin. And while

981
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: I was there, I want ahead and got me some

982
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 2: two and I want to head, guys some crack.

983
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: And you can.

984
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 2: Imagine if you're.

985
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: Well load up.

986
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: That's right, you can imagine you've heard a little bit

987
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: of how quickly I can burn wheels off of bus.

988
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 2: From March until probably November of twenty eighteen, we were

989
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: burning through. I hate to even think about how much

990
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: money we spent. How much O six figures, yeah, for sure,

991
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: of lot six figures.

992
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 1: Wow.

993
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 3: So we both have very high tolerances, extremely high.

994
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: I mean, between the two of us, we probably had

995
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 2: a twelve hundred fifteen hundred dollar day habit a.

996
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: Day a day, day a day. Guys. That concludes Part

997
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: one of my conversation with Ben and just Owen, and

998
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: I'm telling you don't miss part two. It's now available

999
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: to listen to as their redemption story. It's coming, guys,

1000
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: and it's amazing, y'all. We can change this country together.

1001
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: It starts with you. I'll see you in Part two.