1 00:00:00,689 --> 00:00:02,750 Speaker 1: If you're about to make a change in your life 2 00:00:03,290 --> 00:00:06,450 Speaker 1: and you feel uncomfortable, that's the best feeling you can have. 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:09,860 Speaker 2: Because for the first time in your life. 4 00:00:09,940 --> 00:00:12,700 Speaker 1: You're making a decision that's going to be best for 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: you and not what somebody told you to do. 6 00:00:16,020 --> 00:00:17,820 Speaker 2: And that's when all bets are off. 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Money Making Conversation Masterclass. I'm your host, Rashawn McDonald. 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,740 Speaker 1: Our theme is there's no perfect time to start following 9 00:00:24,780 --> 00:00:27,890 Speaker 1: your dreams. I recognize that we all have different definitions 10 00:00:27,990 --> 00:00:29,930 Speaker 1: of success. For you, it may be the size of 11 00:00:29,950 --> 00:00:32,990 Speaker 1: your paycheck It's time to stop reading other people's success 12 00:00:33,030 --> 00:00:34,290 Speaker 1: stories and start living your own. 13 00:00:34,810 --> 00:00:35,350 Speaker 2: Keep winning. 14 00:00:40,030 --> 00:00:42,870 Speaker 1: My next guest is Craig Melvin. He's the co-host of 15 00:00:42,909 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: the Today Show and the author of the book, Pops, 16 00:00:45,780 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: Learning to Be a Son and a Father. 17 00:00:48,020 --> 00:00:48,780 Speaker 2: You may know Craig. 18 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,020 Speaker 1: He's an award-winning news anchor, as I said earlier on 19 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: the Today Show. You also have seen him on MSNBC 20 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,470 Speaker 1: Live and a host of Datelines. He's on the show 21 00:00:56,510 --> 00:00:58,830 Speaker 1: discussing his book, Pops, Learning to Be a Son and 22 00:00:58,870 --> 00:01:01,290 Speaker 1: a Father. It's the story of all the father figures 23 00:01:01,350 --> 00:01:04,370 Speaker 1: in Craig's life. And that includes inspiring men from his 24 00:01:04,430 --> 00:01:08,610 Speaker 1: program or his series called Dad's Got This Series on 25 00:01:08,709 --> 00:01:12,690 Speaker 1: NBC News Today. These experiences and encounters have shaped Craig's 26 00:01:12,810 --> 00:01:14,670 Speaker 1: understanding of his own role as a dad. 27 00:01:14,690 --> 00:01:16,190 Speaker 2: And I'm sure I can be related. We'll have a 28 00:01:16,270 --> 00:01:17,110 Speaker 2: nice conversation. 29 00:01:17,130 --> 00:01:21,070 Speaker 1: He has two young children. Please welcome to Money Making Conversations, 30 00:01:21,150 --> 00:01:22,429 Speaker 1: my man, Craig Milven. 31 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:22,970 Speaker 2: How you doing, Craig? 32 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,309 Speaker 3: Sean, I'm well. I'm well. 33 00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:28,950 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. I always enjoy 34 00:01:28,970 --> 00:01:31,089 Speaker 4: your conversation, so I like to be a part of one. 35 00:01:31,330 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: Thank you, Romain. Southern boy, South Carolina, okay? 36 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,660 Speaker 1: There you go. You know, when I see people on 37 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:41,780 Speaker 1: TV and you're so articulate, there are no y'alls, there 38 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: are no accents. 39 00:01:42,940 --> 00:01:45,580 Speaker 2: How does a man come straight out of Columbia, not no. 40 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,050 Speaker 1: Columbia, because Steve Harvey and I used to go down 41 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,700 Speaker 1: a lot performing at the town center. selling that place 42 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:52,660 Speaker 1: out all the time. So I'm very familiar with South Carolina, Charleston, 43 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,140 Speaker 1: that whole low country. 44 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,380 Speaker 2: There's no low country in your tone. What's going on here? 45 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,390 Speaker 2: How you break that low country accent, low country accent? 46 00:02:01,410 --> 00:02:03,850 Speaker 3: Oh, it's funny because I never had it. 47 00:02:03,890 --> 00:02:09,269 Speaker 4: My mom, you'll appreciate this, growing up in Houston, the 48 00:02:09,290 --> 00:02:11,050 Speaker 4: way that you grew up. My mom grew up in 49 00:02:11,090 --> 00:02:14,350 Speaker 4: the projects and first in the family to go to 50 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 4: college and first in the family to get a graduate degree. 51 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 4: So when we came along, she wanted to expose us 52 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,829 Speaker 4: to things and places that she had not been exposed to. 53 00:02:27,790 --> 00:02:31,500 Speaker 4: And consequently, I think I was probably 14 or 15, 54 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 4: and she had us take part in these oratorical contests. 55 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,850 Speaker 3: Right. And that was kind of how it started. So I. 56 00:02:42,650 --> 00:02:46,190 Speaker 4: Took some public speaking classes and then these oratorical contests. 57 00:02:46,610 --> 00:02:48,889 Speaker 4: And then the next thing you knew, I had what 58 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:52,990 Speaker 4: they like to call in the business a nondescript dialect. 59 00:02:53,050 --> 00:02:53,190 Speaker 1: Yeah. 60 00:02:54,490 --> 00:02:57,610 Speaker 3: You can't really tell based on listening to me where 61 00:02:57,630 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 3: I'm from. It's a blessing now. When I was growing up, 62 00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:05,940 Speaker 3: it was always, he's talking white. Absolutely. He talks like 63 00:03:05,980 --> 00:03:10,620 Speaker 3: a white boy. So it's, you know, it was a curse. 64 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:11,460 Speaker 3: Now it's a blessing. 65 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,179 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting because I knew in my 66 00:03:14,220 --> 00:03:16,660 Speaker 1: middle school, I remember my teacher used to always ask 67 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,650 Speaker 1: me to read, used to always ask me to read. And, 68 00:03:18,690 --> 00:03:21,389 Speaker 1: you know, people talk about bullying and, you know, when 69 00:03:21,430 --> 00:03:24,110 Speaker 1: you people talk about They call you Snowflake. That was 70 00:03:24,130 --> 00:03:27,430 Speaker 1: a form of bullying. And then so it's popularized now 71 00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:29,250 Speaker 1: because people are willing to talk about it. But we 72 00:03:29,310 --> 00:03:31,540 Speaker 1: all grew up in some form of physical or mental 73 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: abuse from high school kids or people in the neighborhood. 74 00:03:35,060 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: And I remember this girl, she made such. 75 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,540 Speaker 2: A big deal that I was always asked to read. 76 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,630 Speaker 1: That it almost, I have to say traumatized me because- 77 00:03:44,740 --> 00:03:47,260 Speaker 1: I went exactly the opposite. I wanted to talk. I 78 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:49,940 Speaker 1: wanted to say ain't. I wanted to slur my words. 79 00:03:49,980 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to fit in. And so with you, I 80 00:03:52,900 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: bring that story up because you talk about it because 81 00:03:55,260 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: you was hit with it. You was hit, you know, 82 00:03:57,300 --> 00:03:59,700 Speaker 1: talking wide. You didn't want to act wide. You were 83 00:03:59,740 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: calling it a snowflake. What kept you focused? What kept 84 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:06,230 Speaker 1: you from veering off like I veered off? I veered 85 00:04:06,290 --> 00:04:07,490 Speaker 1: off and I said, hey, man, I want to fit 86 00:04:07,590 --> 00:04:08,570 Speaker 1: in and not be me. 87 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:11,810 Speaker 4: You know, I think it was, when I write about 88 00:04:11,930 --> 00:04:15,110 Speaker 4: it in the book, my mother, my mother really, Rashad, 89 00:04:15,130 --> 00:04:18,390 Speaker 4: I mean, she kept us on the straight and narrow. 90 00:04:18,510 --> 00:04:23,979 Speaker 4: At the time, we resented the strictness. I mean, my mom, 91 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 4: she knew all of our friends. She knew all of 92 00:04:27,339 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 4: the parents. We weren't allowed to stay out past, you know, 93 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,350 Speaker 4: during the week, maybe nine o'clock, maybe on the weekends 94 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:38,270 Speaker 4: when kids were going to parties and having fun. I 95 00:04:38,310 --> 00:04:43,650 Speaker 4: was doing oratorical contests and activities. And I went to 96 00:04:44,210 --> 00:04:46,110 Speaker 4: in high school. I think I probably went to maybe 97 00:04:47,089 --> 00:04:49,150 Speaker 4: three high school football games on Friday night. 98 00:04:49,210 --> 00:04:50,990 Speaker 3: I just I didn't I grew up on a very 99 00:04:51,029 --> 00:04:52,210 Speaker 3: tight leash. Right. 100 00:04:53,070 --> 00:04:56,090 Speaker 4: And part of it was my mother overcompensating for my 101 00:04:56,150 --> 00:04:58,170 Speaker 4: father not being the kind of dad that he should 102 00:04:58,210 --> 00:05:01,419 Speaker 4: have been. But part of it was mom knew she 103 00:05:01,460 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 4: knew back then, I think. 104 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 3: Kind of what it took. She was a school teacher. 105 00:05:05,060 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 3: Then she went into administration. She knew what it took 106 00:05:09,430 --> 00:05:14,610 Speaker 3: to shape and mold young black boys, especially. Right. And 107 00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:15,190 Speaker 3: that was it. 108 00:05:15,250 --> 00:05:16,990 Speaker 4: Had it not been for her, had I grown up 109 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:20,330 Speaker 4: in another house, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. 110 00:05:20,350 --> 00:05:22,210 Speaker 1: Well, you know, in writing your book, you know, the 111 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:24,990 Speaker 1: book we're talking about, interviewing Craig Melvin, his book, Pops, 112 00:05:25,070 --> 00:05:26,170 Speaker 1: Learning to Be a Son and. 113 00:05:26,110 --> 00:05:27,690 Speaker 2: A Father, is it because. 114 00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:31,810 Speaker 1: the fact that your father wasn't there, that she may 115 00:05:31,850 --> 00:05:35,450 Speaker 1: be overcompensated and wanted to make sure you didn't, you 116 00:05:35,490 --> 00:05:37,990 Speaker 1: had a better life or you pursued the options, even 117 00:05:38,029 --> 00:05:39,810 Speaker 1: though I knew she went to college and I think 118 00:05:39,850 --> 00:05:42,250 Speaker 1: at the age of 22 is when she became pregnant 119 00:05:42,270 --> 00:05:45,290 Speaker 1: with you. But talk about that in the middle of this, 120 00:05:45,330 --> 00:05:48,130 Speaker 1: because as we talk about trying to shape you because 121 00:05:48,170 --> 00:05:49,850 Speaker 1: of the fact that you've been shaped by a lot 122 00:05:49,890 --> 00:05:52,450 Speaker 1: of people, especially the stories. We're going to talk about 123 00:05:52,470 --> 00:05:54,890 Speaker 1: the prison incident when you was out at Camp Grace, 124 00:05:54,930 --> 00:05:57,610 Speaker 1: how that really kind of like, started you in this 125 00:05:57,650 --> 00:06:01,710 Speaker 1: direction of humanizing all men, especially men who are incarcerated. 126 00:06:02,029 --> 00:06:05,620 Speaker 1: Talk about your mom and her role versus your dad role, 127 00:06:05,630 --> 00:06:07,900 Speaker 1: because you mentioned it just a little bit, but that 128 00:06:07,940 --> 00:06:10,419 Speaker 1: centers around us getting into the story and your father 129 00:06:10,700 --> 00:06:11,980 Speaker 1: changing his life at the age of 67. 130 00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, mom had to play the role of mom and 131 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:22,110 Speaker 4: dad for the better part of my childhood. It was 132 00:06:22,130 --> 00:06:25,250 Speaker 4: a role that she was Yeah, she was fortunately well 133 00:06:25,290 --> 00:06:28,350 Speaker 4: prepared for it because she had to take care of 134 00:06:28,370 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 4: her three younger siblings when she was in college. 135 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:32,820 Speaker 3: And her father. 136 00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:36,529 Speaker 4: skipped out on the family, ended up essentially dying on 137 00:06:36,550 --> 00:06:41,970 Speaker 4: the streets in squalor. But no, a mom, because my 138 00:06:42,089 --> 00:06:47,940 Speaker 4: father was not physically present as often as I would 139 00:06:47,980 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 4: have liked, and my younger brother would have liked, and 140 00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 4: my older brother as well, mom stepped in to fill 141 00:06:52,740 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 4: the gap. She filled the void. And not just being 142 00:06:56,300 --> 00:07:00,870 Speaker 4: present in the sense of Little League games or soccer 143 00:07:00,910 --> 00:07:07,169 Speaker 4: games or concerts, not just physically present, but emotionally present, 144 00:07:07,190 --> 00:07:11,570 Speaker 4: spiritually present. I mean, the relationship that I have with 145 00:07:11,610 --> 00:07:16,430 Speaker 4: God is because of my mother's relationship with God. So 146 00:07:17,790 --> 00:07:21,870 Speaker 4: it was divine intervention. Had I had any other mother, 147 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:27,010 Speaker 4: things would not have gone the way that they did. But, 148 00:07:27,030 --> 00:07:29,610 Speaker 4: you know, it's also, and I write about it in 149 00:07:29,630 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 4: the book, as you know, and I do appreciate the 150 00:07:31,710 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 4: fact that you read the book. You'd be surprised how 151 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 4: often we talk to people about books and they haven't 152 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 4: read word one. But I can tell you read. 153 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,020 Speaker 3: The whole thing. And I write about it in the book. 154 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 4: My father, I asked him during the course of my 155 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:47,820 Speaker 4: interviews with him for the book, I said, Pops, what 156 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,140 Speaker 4: was the most money you ever wasted? Mm-hmm. 157 00:07:50,910 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 3: Without missing a beat. He said it was about $ 1, 500 158 00:07:53,500 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: back in 1986. I said, well, that was a lot 159 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: of money back then. What'd you spend that money on? 160 00:07:58,180 --> 00:08:00,620 Speaker 4: He said, that's how much it cost to put my 161 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:01,420 Speaker 4: daddy in the ground. 162 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,700 Speaker 3: And in that moment, I realized. 163 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,260 Speaker 4: That while I had been frustrated by the lack of 164 00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:12,610 Speaker 4: relationship I had with my dad, it was exponentially better 165 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,010 Speaker 4: than the relationship he had with his own father. He 166 00:08:15,050 --> 00:08:17,750 Speaker 4: didn't even know who his dad was until he was 167 00:08:17,790 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 4: almost a teenager. So it was wholly unrealistic of me 168 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 4: to expect him to be the kind of dad that 169 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 4: I had come to idolize. He couldn't be it because 170 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,620 Speaker 4: he hadn't seen it. And you can't be something. Scratch that. 171 00:08:35,730 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 4: It's really hard to be something if you haven't seen it, 172 00:08:40,390 --> 00:08:41,580 Speaker 4: if you haven't been exposed to it. 173 00:08:41,590 --> 00:08:43,050 Speaker 3: So that's what my dad was up against. 174 00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:45,830 Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I read the book, you know, 175 00:08:46,070 --> 00:08:50,510 Speaker 1: I heard Shotgun House. Okay, I was born in a 176 00:08:50,510 --> 00:08:52,809 Speaker 1: shotgun house, two-bedroom shotgun house. A lot of people, if 177 00:08:52,850 --> 00:08:55,620 Speaker 1: you listen to shotgun house, Open the front door, shoot 178 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: a shotgun out through the, go out. 179 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,300 Speaker 2: The front back door. Don't hit anything. That's a shotgun house. 180 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:01,660 Speaker 3: Okay. 181 00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:04,850 Speaker 2: You referenced pig feet. Grew up with pig feet, my man. Hey, 182 00:09:05,110 --> 00:09:06,790 Speaker 2: I wouldn't touch them now, Greg. 183 00:09:06,850 --> 00:09:09,030 Speaker 3: I wouldn't touch them now. 184 00:09:09,550 --> 00:09:12,410 Speaker 1: But pig feet were part of my lifestyle. And so 185 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: that's the Southern. I'm from Houston, Texas. I'm from the South. 186 00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:17,860 Speaker 1: It was a lifestyle that was normal to me, but 187 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: it was also a community lifestyle that of people taking 188 00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:21,859 Speaker 1: care of each other. 189 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: And that was really important. 190 00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:26,469 Speaker 1: Not only your dad, even though there were some missteps, 191 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,030 Speaker 1: there were still people there to take care of him, 192 00:09:29,390 --> 00:09:31,910 Speaker 1: you know, to make sure he was focused, to shout 193 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:33,270 Speaker 1: at him as he became an adult. 194 00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:35,110 Speaker 2: There were people in the community. 195 00:09:35,550 --> 00:09:38,790 Speaker 1: That's really important in this book that no matter what, 196 00:09:38,970 --> 00:09:42,570 Speaker 1: there's some form of family tied to your story and 197 00:09:42,590 --> 00:09:43,809 Speaker 1: the people in your life. 198 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:44,870 Speaker 2: Talk about that. 199 00:09:45,780 --> 00:09:50,540 Speaker 4: You know, it's funny because long before people started talking 200 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,730 Speaker 4: about it, taking a village to rear a child, I 201 00:09:54,770 --> 00:09:55,390 Speaker 4: had a village. 202 00:09:55,710 --> 00:09:58,329 Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't called that back in the 80s 203 00:09:58,590 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 3: in South Carolina, back in the 80s. 204 00:09:59,940 --> 00:10:02,660 Speaker 4: And 90s when I grew up, but I had a village. 205 00:10:03,420 --> 00:10:07,620 Speaker 4: And yes, there were a number of men who played 206 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 4: the role of dad along the way. My Uncle James, 207 00:10:09,740 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 4: my Uncle Jake, my Uncle Frank. But there were also 208 00:10:14,660 --> 00:10:17,380 Speaker 4: a lot of women that played the part as well. 209 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: I was disciplined, and I think that's the politically correct term. 210 00:10:23,860 --> 00:10:27,359 Speaker 4: I was disciplined by more women growing up than men, 211 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 4: whether it was my mom or one of my aunts 212 00:10:30,210 --> 00:10:32,490 Speaker 4: or my grandma. I spent a lot of time with 213 00:10:32,530 --> 00:10:37,510 Speaker 4: my two grandmothers growing up. And they really shaped me 214 00:10:37,650 --> 00:10:40,130 Speaker 4: in myriad ways that I didn't fully appreciate until I 215 00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:40,650 Speaker 4: was older. 216 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:44,670 Speaker 3: Right. And then after that, I had coaches along the way. 217 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 4: I always... God always blessed me with people along the 218 00:10:50,020 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 4: road that gave me a little part of something that 219 00:10:55,620 --> 00:10:59,490 Speaker 4: I was able to take and build on. It's difficult 220 00:10:59,690 --> 00:11:03,890 Speaker 4: for young Black men especially, it's difficult to learn how 221 00:11:03,929 --> 00:11:10,270 Speaker 4: to carry yourself in this world. without examples of it. 222 00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:14,929 Speaker 4: And I had lots of examples, thankfully, along the way. 223 00:11:14,970 --> 00:11:17,370 Speaker 4: But the reality is, as you know, Sean, A lot 224 00:11:17,390 --> 00:11:18,209 Speaker 4: of kids don't have that. 225 00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:19,510 Speaker 3: A lot of kids don't. 226 00:11:19,610 --> 00:11:22,030 Speaker 4: They just, you know, through no fault of their own, 227 00:11:22,090 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 4: mind you, they don't have a mother or a father 228 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,599 Speaker 4: or an uncle or an aunt to take their hand 229 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,060 Speaker 4: on this journey of life. And so they end up 230 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:38,359 Speaker 4: finding role models that should not be held up or 231 00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 4: that should not be on a pedestal. 232 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: And they begin to emulate them. 233 00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: You know, the thing I really like about your book 234 00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:49,260 Speaker 1: is that Sometimes, because my father was a truck driver, 235 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:51,860 Speaker 1: you know, so, you know, when he wasn't driving trucks, 236 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't really connected to me. I can 237 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,380 Speaker 1: tell you he was my father. I can tell you that. 238 00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: My mom was there for me. My mom pushed me. 239 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,980 Speaker 1: My mom always felt I could be somebody special in life. 240 00:12:05,660 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: When your father showed up for your ball game, that memory, 241 00:12:09,100 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: you don't know if you got a hit or home 242 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: run or you got struck out every time you went 243 00:12:12,980 --> 00:12:14,300 Speaker 1: up the bat, but you remember that moment. 244 00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:16,660 Speaker 2: And then when your mom rescued. 245 00:12:16,220 --> 00:12:22,209 Speaker 1: You, when you thought you had entered early fatherhood, you know, 246 00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:25,990 Speaker 1: those are two moments that really, I bring up those 247 00:12:26,030 --> 00:12:28,970 Speaker 1: two moments, Craig, because despite of all the things we 248 00:12:28,990 --> 00:12:31,890 Speaker 1: do in our life, there are always memories that really, 249 00:12:32,270 --> 00:12:36,330 Speaker 1: some haunt people, some inspire people. Your father showing up 250 00:12:36,350 --> 00:12:40,010 Speaker 1: for your game and your mom, basically coming to the 251 00:12:40,050 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: rescue because she did something that enabled you to relax, right? 252 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: Talk about those two key moments of parenting. Even though 253 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: your father wasn't there, that was a key parenting moment 254 00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:52,660 Speaker 1: that he provided for you that stays with you today 255 00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: and probably carries into your parenting with your children today. 256 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,770 Speaker 1: And then your mom being there for you at a 257 00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:01,870 Speaker 1: moment of doubt, frustration, fear, but both of them were 258 00:13:01,890 --> 00:13:03,050 Speaker 1: there at different times. 259 00:13:03,820 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 4: I mean, you're talking about the part of my book 260 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:11,250 Speaker 4: where I almost became a teenage father. I was almost 261 00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:13,370 Speaker 4: a statistic at the age of 14. 262 00:13:13,370 --> 00:13:15,630 Speaker 3: No less. 263 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:19,070 Speaker 4: I made a bad choice. 264 00:13:19,290 --> 00:13:20,929 Speaker 3: I made a bad choice. And you know what? 265 00:13:21,690 --> 00:13:23,910 Speaker 4: I write about it because I wrote about it because 266 00:13:23,929 --> 00:13:28,790 Speaker 4: I wanted people to understand there but. For the grace 267 00:13:28,830 --> 00:13:32,170 Speaker 4: of God, go I. And I think a lot of 268 00:13:32,210 --> 00:13:35,580 Speaker 4: folks can relate to this idea that, you know, there's 269 00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:38,820 Speaker 4: that night or sometimes that day, but usually it's that 270 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:42,420 Speaker 4: night where you went left, but you could have gone right. 271 00:13:42,540 --> 00:13:42,829 Speaker 2: Right. 272 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:47,660 Speaker 4: And had you made a different decision, it would have 273 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,810 Speaker 4: altered the course of your life in a dramatic way. 274 00:13:52,010 --> 00:13:54,690 Speaker 3: That almost happened to me. I got lucky. 275 00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:58,569 Speaker 4: And at that point in my life, I didn't have 276 00:13:58,610 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 4: much of a relationship with my father. I was afraid 277 00:14:02,980 --> 00:14:06,820 Speaker 4: of my mother, definitely afraid. So I couldn't talk to 278 00:14:06,860 --> 00:14:10,470 Speaker 4: her about it. And it was a situation where, you know, 279 00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:12,850 Speaker 4: this young lady was convinced she was pregnant. 280 00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:16,150 Speaker 3: And I like I had to I had to do something. 281 00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 5: Please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more 282 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:26,980 Speaker 5: money making conversations masterclass. Welcome back to the Money Making 283 00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:32,700 Speaker 5: Conversations Masterclass hosted by Rashawn McDonald. Money Making Conversations Masterclass 284 00:14:32,820 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 5: continues online at moneymakingconversations.com and follow Money Making Conversations Masterclass 285 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:40,870 Speaker 5: on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. 286 00:14:41,870 --> 00:14:44,780 Speaker 3: This was not one of those situations where inaction was 287 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:45,260 Speaker 3: an option. 288 00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 4: Right. 289 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 3: And I write in the book about how I went 290 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 3: to my aunt. 291 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 4: And it was my aunt that finally convinced me that 292 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,870 Speaker 4: I had no choice but to talk to my mother. 293 00:14:54,070 --> 00:14:56,470 Speaker 3: Right. But my mom has always been. 294 00:14:57,230 --> 00:15:00,610 Speaker 4: long before we started calling people fixers, my mom was 295 00:15:00,670 --> 00:15:04,390 Speaker 4: a fixer. Like it was, it was that, that obviously 296 00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:06,390 Speaker 4: was an extreme example, but there were so many other 297 00:15:06,410 --> 00:15:06,950 Speaker 4: times in my. 298 00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:10,150 Speaker 3: Life where I thought I was out of options. I 299 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 3: didn't know what I was going to do. 300 00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:13,980 Speaker 4: And I prayed to God and put trust in Betty 301 00:15:14,020 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 4: Jo Melvin and, and Betty Jo Melvin always came through 302 00:15:17,140 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 4: and still does now, mind you, in a different way. 303 00:15:19,940 --> 00:15:22,780 Speaker 4: My dad, you know, wrote about that, that, that part in. 304 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 3: The book with Sean Webber. He showed up at my 305 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:26,220 Speaker 3: little league game. 306 00:15:26,420 --> 00:15:29,580 Speaker 4: And the memory stayed with me because it was so 307 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:35,020 Speaker 4: rare to that point. My dad, and again, now looking 308 00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:37,830 Speaker 4: back on it, knowing what we know about addiction, about 309 00:15:37,850 --> 00:15:41,130 Speaker 4: it being a disease and not a weakness, I understand 310 00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:44,970 Speaker 4: why he wasn't there. I understand why he had walled 311 00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:47,910 Speaker 4: himself off from our family and society at large. 312 00:15:47,950 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: But back then, I was a kid. 313 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:53,100 Speaker 4: I was a kid who wanted my dad to be 314 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,740 Speaker 4: proud of me and see me and certainly watch my 315 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 4: Little League games. And so when he showed up that 316 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 4: evening and I saw him down the third baseline there 317 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:05,010 Speaker 4: on the fence, it's a memory that stayed with me 318 00:16:05,050 --> 00:16:09,770 Speaker 4: because it was so rare. That being said, now he's everywhere. Like, 319 00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:11,930 Speaker 4: you know, he was up two weeks ago. My son 320 00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:14,410 Speaker 4: had a soccer game. My dad was right there with 321 00:16:14,430 --> 00:16:18,650 Speaker 4: me on the sideline. And 30 seconds in, my boy 322 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:20,210 Speaker 4: hadn't scored a goal all season. 323 00:16:20,210 --> 00:16:25,110 Speaker 3: 30 seconds in, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot, score. 324 00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:26,770 Speaker 3: First goal of the game. 325 00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:29,729 Speaker 4: And me and my pops are high-fiving like he had 326 00:16:29,770 --> 00:16:31,390 Speaker 4: just won a green jacket at Augusta. 327 00:16:31,570 --> 00:16:32,650 Speaker 3: Yes. You know. 328 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,220 Speaker 2: The book is an emotional book. 329 00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:39,900 Speaker 1: I say emotional because I told people, when I get 330 00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:41,420 Speaker 1: a book like this, I have to slow read it 331 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: because sometimes it'll hit points where I go, oh, I'm 332 00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:45,990 Speaker 1: about to go there. 333 00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:47,489 Speaker 2: Let me finish this moment. 334 00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:51,550 Speaker 1: Because I remember a moment with my dad, 1992, when 335 00:16:51,610 --> 00:16:55,750 Speaker 1: I owned a comedy club. And my dad had never, 336 00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:58,710 Speaker 1: ever been to anything I had been. And he just 337 00:16:58,750 --> 00:17:01,830 Speaker 1: showed up at the comedy club. And it was sold 338 00:17:01,990 --> 00:17:03,310 Speaker 1: out and I looked in the library. 339 00:17:03,330 --> 00:17:04,669 Speaker 2: I said, what you doing here, dad? He go, I 340 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:05,530 Speaker 2: come to see my son. 341 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:08,010 Speaker 3: And he looked around. He looked. 342 00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: Wow, this you? This you? This you? And I went, yes, sir. Yes, sir. 343 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: Because I always say sir to my dad. And he said, 344 00:17:17,100 --> 00:17:19,460 Speaker 2: I'm proud of you, son. 345 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: And like I said, because that's what the book did 346 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: to me as a dad. Because when you start talking 347 00:17:27,380 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: about incarceration, And you talk about, remember you said earlier, 348 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: right turn, left turn, those turns. I always say that 349 00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:37,310 Speaker 1: when I was in college, you know, you played as 350 00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:40,229 Speaker 1: a fraternity. I played Jamaica sci-fi. And you always do 351 00:17:40,270 --> 00:17:42,570 Speaker 1: stupid things. I remember the big brothers said, we want 352 00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:43,070 Speaker 1: some plants. 353 00:17:43,550 --> 00:17:47,129 Speaker 2: Well, we didn't have no money. And so I remember this. 354 00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:49,790 Speaker 1: Giant open field where they had plants back in the day. 355 00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:52,770 Speaker 1: And me and my line brothers, we went and stole 356 00:17:52,810 --> 00:17:53,570 Speaker 1: these plants, man. 357 00:17:53,609 --> 00:17:54,850 Speaker 2: I mean, if you look. 358 00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:57,790 Speaker 1: Back on it, Craig, From the freeway, you would have 359 00:17:57,869 --> 00:18:00,530 Speaker 1: seen us running across this field with these plants, okay? 360 00:18:00,869 --> 00:18:04,290 Speaker 1: So anybody could have went, what are those black dudes, boys, 361 00:18:04,510 --> 00:18:07,530 Speaker 1: doing running with all these giant plants? And I had 362 00:18:07,609 --> 00:18:11,149 Speaker 1: a little Fiat X19, which is a two-seater, and the 363 00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:12,190 Speaker 1: truck was in the front. 364 00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:14,990 Speaker 2: So I had to put the plants in the front, 365 00:18:15,090 --> 00:18:16,389 Speaker 2: and it was blocking my windshield. 366 00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:19,869 Speaker 1: So all along the way, I could have stopped and 367 00:18:19,890 --> 00:18:22,530 Speaker 1: stopped by the police and been incarcerated. And my life 368 00:18:22,550 --> 00:18:25,050 Speaker 1: could have changed on that right turn, left turn that 369 00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:26,010 Speaker 1: you were talking about earlier. 370 00:18:26,770 --> 00:18:28,850 Speaker 2: You are meeting men who've done. 371 00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:31,729 Speaker 1: Something far worse than what I've talked about, but they 372 00:18:31,770 --> 00:18:34,810 Speaker 1: have made a mistake. And sometimes because they've made a mistake, 373 00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:36,820 Speaker 1: we don't give them a second chance because we feel 374 00:18:36,859 --> 00:18:40,020 Speaker 1: that they are unworthy of that second chance. And then 375 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: in your book, you talk about, guess what? They are 376 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: fathers too. Let's talk about that journey of you doing 377 00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: a story. I think basically changed your life. And it 378 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:51,030 Speaker 1: started with Camp Grace. 379 00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was one of the most impactful stories I've 380 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:57,050 Speaker 4: ever done. There's a, and I don't even remember how 381 00:18:57,090 --> 00:19:00,290 Speaker 4: we found out about this camp, but I was probably 382 00:19:00,330 --> 00:19:04,890 Speaker 4: reading some article in an obscure publication about this summer 383 00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:11,689 Speaker 4: camp at a maximum security prison in California, Salinas State 384 00:19:11,770 --> 00:19:15,390 Speaker 4: Valley Prison is the name of the facility. And for 385 00:19:15,790 --> 00:19:21,790 Speaker 4: one week every summer, they bring in about a dozen 386 00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:25,810 Speaker 4: or so kids to basically have a camp experience with 387 00:19:25,869 --> 00:19:28,810 Speaker 4: their dads. I mean, you know, arts and crafts and 388 00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:31,699 Speaker 4: they play games and they sing songs and. 389 00:19:31,660 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: They do all the stuff that you would do at 390 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: a camp. 391 00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:36,860 Speaker 4: I mean, these kids are between the ages of, you know, 392 00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:42,290 Speaker 4: seven or eight and 15 or 16. And the guys 393 00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:46,230 Speaker 4: who are part of the program have to exhibit good 394 00:19:46,270 --> 00:19:51,410 Speaker 4: behavior for a full year. The camp is a, privilege. 395 00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:55,179 Speaker 4: And I went out and spent some time talking to 396 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,290 Speaker 4: these guys, and it ended up being great. just an 397 00:19:58,310 --> 00:20:01,070 Speaker 4: emotional day because these are men, first of all, most 398 00:20:01,109 --> 00:20:03,950 Speaker 4: of them are not going to be getting out of prison. 399 00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:07,650 Speaker 4: I mean, some of them have been convicted of doing 400 00:20:07,670 --> 00:20:12,820 Speaker 4: some pretty heinous things. But the two women that started 401 00:20:12,859 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 4: the camp, both of their husbands were incarcerated and consequently 402 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,980 Speaker 4: weren't really a part of the child's lives. they would 403 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 4: get the occasional visit, you know, on a weekend and 404 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,270 Speaker 4: you've got the glass and, but they weren't able to 405 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 4: really be a part of the child's life. 406 00:20:29,940 --> 00:20:31,230 Speaker 3: So they came up with this idea for a camp. 407 00:20:31,630 --> 00:20:33,350 Speaker 4: And I talked to one of the guys out there 408 00:20:33,390 --> 00:20:34,830 Speaker 4: and I asked him the question, I knew a lot 409 00:20:34,869 --> 00:20:36,470 Speaker 4: of people were going to be asking when they watched 410 00:20:36,810 --> 00:20:43,449 Speaker 4: or read the story, how can someone accused of some 411 00:20:43,470 --> 00:20:46,790 Speaker 4: of the things these guys were accused of, how, in 412 00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:51,510 Speaker 4: what universe do they deserve the right to spend. 413 00:20:51,310 --> 00:20:53,620 Speaker 3: Time, with a child. 414 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,790 Speaker 4: Yes. And without missing a beat, he said to me, 415 00:20:57,050 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 4: tears in his eyes, they might be right. I may 416 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,490 Speaker 4: not deserve it, but you know what, Craig? My kids do. 417 00:21:05,770 --> 00:21:08,010 Speaker 4: My kids deserve to know their father. They didn't do 418 00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 4: anything wrong. They didn't make any bad choices. And his 419 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 4: larger point, and I think this was just as valid, 420 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 4: if we're serious about stopping the prison pipeline that we always. 421 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 3: Talk about, then we need to make sure that kids... 422 00:21:24,410 --> 00:21:26,770 Speaker 3: of incarcerated individuals, have relationships with them. 423 00:21:27,050 --> 00:21:29,230 Speaker 4: He spent a fair amount of his time talking to 424 00:21:29,290 --> 00:21:32,010 Speaker 4: his daughter about. 425 00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 3: Choices, making good choices, not ending up where he ended up. 426 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,939 Speaker 3: It's a fantastic program and it moved me. 427 00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 4: It also moved me, Rashad, because my grandmother, and it's 428 00:21:42,020 --> 00:21:43,620 Speaker 4: the first line in the book, not to give away 429 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,210 Speaker 4: too much, but my grandmother, now when I knew. 430 00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:52,170 Speaker 6: Her, She was going to church, at church, or coming 431 00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 6: home from church. She only loved the Lord. Apparently, long 432 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:58,619 Speaker 6: before I came along. 433 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,140 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Craig, let's just say she's a bootlegger. 434 00:22:01,180 --> 00:22:02,420 Speaker 1: I don't want to give away no more than that. 435 00:22:02,460 --> 00:22:03,340 Speaker 1: Just say she's a bootlegger. 436 00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: I don't want to give away the earlier part, okay? 437 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 2: She's a bootlegger. 438 00:22:06,430 --> 00:22:10,670 Speaker 3: She was a bootlegger. She was a bootlegger and got 439 00:22:10,710 --> 00:22:12,190 Speaker 3: a second chance. Yes, she did. 440 00:22:12,830 --> 00:22:16,790 Speaker 4: And had she not gotten a second chance, who's to 441 00:22:16,810 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 4: say whether I would be here right now, you know? 442 00:22:19,859 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 2: But here's the thing I want to point out about that. 443 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,419 Speaker 1: Now, his grandmother was in the same jail that Martha 444 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: Stewart was in. So she got how many chances that 445 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,899 Speaker 1: she's got, okay? 446 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: But in the same facility now. 447 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: And so when I read the book, and like I said, 448 00:22:37,180 --> 00:22:39,850 Speaker 1: it's an emotional journey because it's your story. But it's 449 00:22:39,869 --> 00:22:42,470 Speaker 1: a relatable story because I remember when my younger brother 450 00:22:42,859 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: was incarcerated in California, and glass talking. And I was 451 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: in tears. And he told me he couldn't cry. He said, 452 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,109 Speaker 1: I can't cry. He said, I can't. And my nickname 453 00:22:56,150 --> 00:22:58,149 Speaker 1: is Ricky. He said, Ricky, I can't cry. Because they 454 00:22:58,170 --> 00:23:01,050 Speaker 1: see me crying out here, I pay a price when 455 00:23:01,090 --> 00:23:04,490 Speaker 1: I go back inside. And in that book, you know, 456 00:23:04,510 --> 00:23:06,770 Speaker 1: the gentleman you interviewed, he said, look, he said, thank 457 00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:10,659 Speaker 1: God I have a cell by myself. Because now I 458 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: can cry. And so I love the fact that you 459 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,820 Speaker 1: were humanizing people because we see the violent sides and 460 00:23:18,859 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: nobody's trying to downplay that. 461 00:23:20,859 --> 00:23:23,250 Speaker 2: But we have made mistakes. There are people on the 462 00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:25,650 Speaker 2: other side of this that have to deal with it emotionally. 463 00:23:25,670 --> 00:23:26,410 Speaker 2: These are kids. 464 00:23:26,850 --> 00:23:30,130 Speaker 1: And like one of them said, look, it's all right 465 00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:33,190 Speaker 1: early on when you're playing cards and you're playing catch. 466 00:23:33,550 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: But when they become teens, the conversation becomes different. And 467 00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: that's what fatherhood is all about, which leads to your 468 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,770 Speaker 1: whole life of being a father growing. being connected to 469 00:23:42,810 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: your dad and now being a present-day father. 470 00:23:44,930 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: Let's talk about that, Craig. 471 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 4: You know, I think that you can be shaped by 472 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 4: negative examples just as much as you can be shaped 473 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 4: by positive examples. In fact, I think in some instances, 474 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:00,379 Speaker 4: maybe even more so. 475 00:24:01,150 --> 00:24:02,550 Speaker 3: So, you know, growing up. 476 00:24:03,090 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 4: I didn't know the kind of man that I wanted 477 00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:07,700 Speaker 4: to be. 478 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 3: I didn't certainly know the kind of father that I 479 00:24:09,580 --> 00:24:10,060 Speaker 3: wanted to be. 480 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:11,899 Speaker 4: But up until a few years ago, I knew I 481 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 4: didn't want to be anything like my dad. 482 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:14,980 Speaker 3: Yes. 483 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:20,700 Speaker 4: And that was what motivated me personally and professionally, probably 484 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 4: to a certain extent, now that I'm talking about it. 485 00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:28,290 Speaker 4: But no, it's funny because I have to remind my 486 00:24:28,330 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 4: kids sometimes that I have a job. And consequently, I 487 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 4: cannot be at their beck and call. 488 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:37,300 Speaker 3: Day and night. 489 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 4: Because, you know, when my dad was there, when we 490 00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:43,140 Speaker 4: were younger, it was big. Like it was a wedding 491 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,530 Speaker 4: or funeral or graduation or that little league game that 492 00:24:47,650 --> 00:24:50,150 Speaker 4: I write about that I remember because it was so weird. 493 00:24:50,170 --> 00:24:52,689 Speaker 4: Dad didn't show up for stuff, in part because he 494 00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:55,790 Speaker 4: worked third shift at the post office, but in larger 495 00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:58,510 Speaker 4: part because of the addiction issues that he had. 496 00:24:59,930 --> 00:25:02,790 Speaker 3: So as a result, I've gone to the other end 497 00:25:02,810 --> 00:25:03,470 Speaker 3: of the spectrum. 498 00:25:03,550 --> 00:25:06,310 Speaker 4: So, you know, I'm there for soccer games and my 499 00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:10,700 Speaker 4: daughter had a gymnastics recital last Sunday morning. And, you know, 500 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 4: I'm physically present as often and as much as I can. 501 00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:18,820 Speaker 4: You know, I do school pickup and I try to 502 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,139 Speaker 4: do it all because, you know, my dad didn't do 503 00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 4: any of it. Now, the problem that you create when 504 00:25:24,980 --> 00:25:26,770 Speaker 4: you do that, and it took. 505 00:25:26,660 --> 00:25:29,570 Speaker 3: Me a while to figure this out, I've created expectations. Yes. 506 00:25:30,109 --> 00:25:33,649 Speaker 4: So if I'm not there, it's like, oh, daddy's got 507 00:25:33,670 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 4: to travel for work. 508 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 3: Well, daddy, why can't you, can you take a later flight? 509 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 3: Can you go tomorrow? 510 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 4: And I've had to say a few times, You know, 511 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:47,739 Speaker 4: it's the job that pays for all of this. You 512 00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:50,310 Speaker 4: don't get to go to dance or you don't get 513 00:25:50,350 --> 00:25:53,430 Speaker 4: to go to soccer if daddy's not hopping on planes. 514 00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:54,310 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 515 00:25:55,510 --> 00:26:00,109 Speaker 3: So that's the unfortunate part. But they're starting to understand. 516 00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:02,810 Speaker 3: But it's funny as you become a parent, how you 517 00:26:03,050 --> 00:26:04,070 Speaker 3: at some point become. 518 00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 4: you become the kind of, for me, at least the 519 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,940 Speaker 4: kind of father that I used to mock. 520 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: Yes. 521 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,129 Speaker 4: I hated when my dad would talk about, you know, 522 00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:15,250 Speaker 4: how much something costs. You don't have money for this. 523 00:26:15,810 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 3: And when we were younger, We didn't. 524 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,060 Speaker 4: Like, he wasn't lying. Like, we knew we didn't have 525 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 4: a lot of money. We knew we had enough. With 526 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 4: my kids, you know, I've said a few times, we 527 00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:28,230 Speaker 4: can't afford this. And my son without missing a beat 528 00:26:28,250 --> 00:26:29,770 Speaker 4: will say, yes, we can. 529 00:26:32,109 --> 00:26:35,389 Speaker 3: We can. And I'm like, and then you find yourself 530 00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:36,930 Speaker 3: trying to come up with a new excuse. 531 00:26:36,990 --> 00:26:41,190 Speaker 4: Like, well, maybe we can't afford it, but we don't 532 00:26:41,230 --> 00:26:41,580 Speaker 4: need it. 533 00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:43,860 Speaker 3: You don't need that. Right, right, right. 534 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: You know, so it's... It's hard. 535 00:26:46,820 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 3: It's hard. 536 00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:49,220 Speaker 1: I know we're about to wrap up, but I want 537 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,580 Speaker 1: to bring up a very fun moment as a parent 538 00:26:52,619 --> 00:26:55,010 Speaker 1: that I want to share with you because you wrote 539 00:26:55,050 --> 00:26:57,149 Speaker 1: about it when your son climbed in the bed and, 540 00:26:57,710 --> 00:27:01,810 Speaker 1: you know, kids when they sleep, if you don't have kids, children, 541 00:27:01,830 --> 00:27:04,869 Speaker 1: you got a very young child, when they climb in 542 00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: the bed, they forget you in bed. Kids are the 543 00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:10,580 Speaker 1: worst sleepers in the world, especially when they get that 544 00:27:10,660 --> 00:27:11,780 Speaker 1: six to ten years of age. 545 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,020 Speaker 2: They're the worst sleepers. 546 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:13,980 Speaker 3: And so. 547 00:27:14,619 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: When you say that in the book, you say you 548 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: may miss that. I remember when I talked to my 549 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,290 Speaker 1: daughter when she was like 17. I said, hey, won't 550 00:27:23,310 --> 00:27:24,869 Speaker 1: you hop in bed and watch a TV series? What 551 00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:27,790 Speaker 1: you talking about? I said, you know, can we not 552 00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:30,649 Speaker 1: watch a TV? Can we not watch TV together? Remember 553 00:27:30,670 --> 00:27:31,830 Speaker 1: we used to go, I don't. 554 00:27:31,690 --> 00:27:32,550 Speaker 2: Do that no more, Dad. 555 00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:32,970 Speaker 6: Uh-uh. 556 00:27:33,090 --> 00:27:34,429 Speaker 2: No, no, we're not doing that. 557 00:27:34,970 --> 00:27:35,929 Speaker 3: So I will. 558 00:27:35,770 --> 00:27:38,750 Speaker 2: Tell you this, Craig. That moment brought laughter to me. 559 00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:40,090 Speaker 2: It brought back memories. 560 00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:43,659 Speaker 1: As your book, the amazingly good book, Pops, Learning to 561 00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:46,750 Speaker 1: Be a Son and a Father, man, it's a great read. 562 00:27:47,050 --> 00:27:49,070 Speaker 1: Like I said, it slowed me. When I say the 563 00:27:49,090 --> 00:27:52,270 Speaker 1: word slowed me, because I was becoming emotional. Because like 564 00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:54,990 Speaker 1: I said, my father was a beer drinker. My father 565 00:27:55,070 --> 00:27:56,350 Speaker 1: worked hard as a truck driver. 566 00:27:56,830 --> 00:27:59,090 Speaker 2: My father, like I said, was. 567 00:27:59,010 --> 00:27:59,570 Speaker 3: He in my life? 568 00:27:59,670 --> 00:28:01,570 Speaker 2: I don't know. But did he shape me to be 569 00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:03,250 Speaker 2: the man I am today? Yes, he did. 570 00:28:03,270 --> 00:28:05,770 Speaker 1: Because he had a role in it. And that role 571 00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:07,490 Speaker 1: has made me to be the man I am. I 572 00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:09,490 Speaker 1: like to believe I'm a good parent to my daughter. 573 00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:12,970 Speaker 1: a good husband to my wife. And those are the 574 00:28:13,010 --> 00:28:15,430 Speaker 1: things that the stories that you tell out of this book, 575 00:28:15,490 --> 00:28:19,690 Speaker 1: from the incarcerated to individuals who raised you as a family, 576 00:28:19,930 --> 00:28:23,250 Speaker 1: the community, and whether teachers who shaped. 577 00:28:23,050 --> 00:28:26,189 Speaker 2: You as third grade teachers who shaped you as you 578 00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:29,020 Speaker 2: go through life and you went to school and you. 579 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,700 Speaker 1: Didn't want to shame your uncle when you didn't pledge 580 00:28:31,740 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: Kappa Alpha Psi. 581 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 2: But it was all good, man. I love your book, Craig. 582 00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 3: I want to. 583 00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:39,060 Speaker 2: Appreciate you for putting it out there, man. Thank you. 584 00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:42,510 Speaker 4: Thank you for your time. I've enjoyed this conversation. You're 585 00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:44,750 Speaker 4: very good at what you do. Thank you for having me. 586 00:28:44,830 --> 00:28:45,870 Speaker 2: OK, we talk soon, man. 587 00:28:46,030 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 3: Be well, OK? 588 00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:47,270 Speaker 2: All right. 589 00:28:47,290 --> 00:28:47,630 Speaker 3: Bye bye. 590 00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:49,739 Speaker 1: If you want to see or hear any of my 591 00:28:49,780 --> 00:28:53,860 Speaker 1: interviews on Money Making Conversation, please go to MoneyMakingConversation.com. 592 00:28:53,980 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 2: I'm Rashawn McDonald. I am your host. 593 00:28:59,710 --> 00:29:02,030 Speaker 5: Thank you for joining us for this edition of Money 594 00:29:02,090 --> 00:29:08,380 Speaker 5: Making Conversations Masterclass. Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Ruchon McDonald 595 00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 5: is produced by 3815 Media Inc. More information about 3815 596 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:19,450 Speaker 5: Media Inc. is available at 3815media. com. And always remember to 597 00:29:19,570 --> 00:29:20,610 Speaker 5: lead with your gifts.